Episodios
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On this episode, we are joined by Ben Mortenson and Janet Craik, both occupational therapists in Canada who have done extensive work on sustainability in healthcare. They share with us the pillars of sustainability and how we as therapists can do our part to ensure economic, social and environmental sustainability.
Guest Bios: Janet Craik holds a Bachelor of Science degree in occupational therapy from Queen's University and a Master's degree in Rehabilitation Science from the University of Toronto. Her involvement as an occupational therapist includes many years as a front-line practitioner, manager, author, educator, and former Executive Director for the Canadian Association of Occupational Therapists. She is deeply interested in exploring how to improve health systems in Canada to be more sustainable. As an instructor at the University of Toronto, she is involved with an interprofessional education elective on climate change and teaches an elective on sustainable health in occupational therapy to ensure students have knowledge and resources needed to identify climate change-related risks and take equitable, evidence-based action to promote health, well-being, and occupational participation. In addition to instructing at the University of Toronto, she is the Rehabilitation Lead for CASCADES (www.cascadescanada.ca) and the Executive Director for the International Cognitive Approaches Network (www.icancoop.org).
Ben Mortenson has been an occupational therapist since 1991. He is Professor and Head of the Department of Occupational Science and Occupational Therapy at the University of British Columbia. He held a New Investigator Award from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research (2016-2021). He is a principal investigator at the GF Strong Rehabilitation Research Program and International Collaboration on Repair Discoveries. He is an experienced mixed-methods researcher with over 200 peer-reviewed publications and he has over $7M in funding as a principal investigator or co-PI and almost $50M as co-investigator. He has had over 300, peer reviewed abstracts accepted at national and international conferences. He has provided research supervision to over 130 trainees. His work is centered on four main populations: assistive technology users, informal and formal caregivers, individuals with spinal cord injury, and residents in long-term care. His research focuses on four overlapping areas: assistive technology, social participation, accessibility and sustainability. He was the 2021 recipient of the Award for Innovative Practice from the Canadian Association of Occupational Therapy (CAOT). In 2022 he was inducted as a CAOT Fellow.
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On this episode, we are joined by April O’Connell to discuss exercise dosing for patients who have sustained injuries of their upper extremity. She shares with us factors that should be considered when designing an exercise program for a patient and how to progress them through their plan of care to achieve their goals and beyond.
Guest Bio: April O’Connell, OTR/L, CHT, ACSM, is an occupational therapist at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Beverly Hills, CA. She works with a variety of sports teams including the NFL, MLB and NBA and recently spoke at ASHT and AAHT on Rehabilitation of the Overhead Athlete. She is one of the main contributors to the fellowship program for hand and upper extremity rehabilitation as well as the co-director for Cedars Sinai Hand Symposium.
April got her start as the Clinical Specialist in the Hand and Upper Extremity Therapy Department at NYU Langone Health. She has lectured to orthopedic surgeons and therapists nationally and internationally in current concepts of orthopedic rehabilitation of the upper extremity. Some of her most recent lectures include being a guest speaker for Dr. Radio on Sirius Satellite on topics for rehabilitation of the hand and upper extremity as well as injuries to the overhead athlete. In addition, she has presented on Flexor Tendon Repair Advancement at AAOS in 2015 and was later asked to speak at the ASSH national conference in 2016 and ASHT in 2017. She recently presented her latest research at the ASHT National Conference on flexor tendon rehabilitation in 2019.
April is a founding member of the NYU Langone Golf and Pitching Labs and was the head hand therapist for the first successful bilateral hand and face allotransplantation. She earned her Occupational Therapy degree at Boston University, is a Certified Hand Therapist and is certified by the American Council of Sports Medicine (ACSM) as a Clinical Exercise Specialist.
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In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Paul Sibley to discuss wide-awake surgical procedures in the upper extremity. He shares with us the various procedures he is performing, the benefits of wide-awake surgery and what we as hand therapists can expect when patients are referred to us following these procedures.
Guest Bio: Dr. Paul A. Sibley is an orthopedist in Allentown, Penn. and is affiliated with multiple hospitals in the area, including Lehigh Valley Hospital-Cedar Crest and Lehigh Valley Health Network-Highland Avenue. He received his medical degree from A.T. Still University Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine and received his post-graduate training at Ohio University-Grandview Medical Center in Dayton, OH. He has many published research publications and has co-written chapters in Wide Awake Hand Surgery, Volumes 1 and 2.
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On this episode, we are joined by Nate Short, a hand and upper extremity therapist who had an incredible opportunity to travel to Ukraine and provide education on upper extremity rehabilitation for Ukrainian therapists. He shares with us his experience of traveling to a country actively involved in conflict and how his team provided training on a variety of topics related to evaluation and treatment of upper extremity conditions while also navigating language barriers and other unique obstacles encountered when serving abroad.
Guest bio: Nathan Short, PhD, OTD, CHT, FAOTA, is a Professor of Occupational Therapy at Abilene Christian University and practices at West Texas Rehab. He is the author of Functional Anatomy for Occupational Therapy and its companion text, OT Guide to Goniometry and MMT.
Hand in Hand with Ukraine: https://handinhandukraine.org.uk
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On this episode we are joined by Alex Mackenzie, an occupational therapist and certified hand therapist. We discuss flexor tendon rehabilitation, how things have changed over the years to optimize outcomes for our patients, how to progress patients through their rehabilitation, and important factors to consider when treating these injuries.
Guest Bio: Alexandra MacKenzie OTR/L, CHT is the Clinical Lead at Hospital For Special Surgery and she serves on the board of the American Hand Therapy Foundation. Her clinical passions are brachial plexus/ nerve injuries, flexor tendon rehabilitation, and mentorship. She helped develop an AOTA-accredited hand therapy fellowship program at HSS and enjoys being the clinical mentor for that program. She has written chapters and presented nationally on a variety of hand therapy related topics. Global health and global healthcare education are interests of hers and she has participated in short-term medical missions to Guatemala, Honduras and Fiji.
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This is a special two-for-one episode as we are joined by four guests to discuss the ASHT Leadership Committee and the Leadership Development Program. Juliet Steffe and Theresa Hallenen - the chair and vice chair of the Leadership Development Committee, respectively - share with us the work the committee is focused on and how the Leadership Development Program was designed and carried out to support emerging leaders in the field of hand and upper extremity therapy. We also have the opportunity to talk with Brooke Ochoa and Laura Carlos who were members of the first cohort of the Leadership Development Program. They share their experience participating in the program and how they plan to use the knowledge and experience they gained to work toward achieving their personal and professional goals.
Guests:
Laura L Carlos, MOT, OTR/L, CHT, CEAS I, is a bilingual Occupational Therapist and Certified Hand Therapist. Laura has been practicing since 2018. Laura currently works as a Level II therapist at UChicago Medicine hospital in the outpatient orthopedic clinic. Laura has been serving the southside of Chicago a little over a year and a half. Laura previously worked at Schwab Rehabilitation hospital in the outpatient setting with a mix caseload of neurological and orthopedic conditions. Laura helped co-create the DEI Media Literacy Committee at Schwab which looked to review and assess different types of media sources and hold discussions on how it impacts our roles/interactions with our fellow co-workers and the patients we serve. Laura is also a co-founder of DiversOTy Chicago Collective which is a local organization looking to support potential OT students/current OT students and practitioners of diverse backgrounds, increase awareness of the OT profession, and support Chicagoland communities. Laura is also an active member of the DEI committee at UChicago Medicine, and is serving on the community engagement subcommittee.
Theresa Hallenen, DHSc, MS, OTR/L, CHT, is an Occupational Therapist and Certified Hand Therapist with over 10-years of experience. She works for the Duke University Health System as a senior OT and co-director of the Duke Hand Therapy Fellowship program. Theresa has worked with colleagues in orthopedic surgery and neurosurgery to establish a center of excellence dedicated to traumatic nerve injury. Besides her clinical work, Theresa is an instructor for the Duke Occupational Therapy Doctorate program. She has volunteered with ASHT and the leadership committee since 2020.
Brooke Ochoa, OTR/L, CHT, works for Benchmark Physical Therapy in northeast Georgia. She is an active member of the American Society of Hand Therapists serving as Advocacy Committee chair of the Practice Division, presenting at the Atlanta Hand Therapy Review Course, and participating in the inaugural cohort of the Leadership Development Program. In addition to service with ASHT, Brooke enjoys mentoring students and new graduate occupational therapists. Her passions include promoting the specialty of hand therapy in her community and empowering occupational therapy students to pursue careers in hand therapy. In her free time, Brooke enjoys hiking, reading, and finding local restaurants to enjoy.
Juliet Steffe, OTD, OTR/L, CHT, is the Director of Academic Fieldwork and Assistant Professor at the Auerbach School of Occupational Therapy at Spalding University. She also works as a hand therapist with Louisville Orthopedic Clinic. She graduated from the Medical College of Ohio in 1995 with a Master of Occupational Therapy. She worked for Shriners Hospitals for Children early in her career, gaining interest and experience in pediatric hand therapy. After moving to Atlanta, GA, in 2000, Juliet continued to build her pediatric hand therapy skills with Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta. While
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On this episode, we are joined by Lindsey Williams, an occupational therapist and Certified Hand Therapist. This is Lindsey’s second time on the Hands in Motion podcast. On this episode, we discuss distal radius epiphysitis, commonly known as gymnast’s wrist. Lindsey describes how this condition is diagnosed, initially treated, and what the return to sport rehabilitation looks like.
Guest bio: Lindsey Williams OT, CHT is a pediatric occupational therapist and Certified Hand Therapist specializing in treatment of pediatric upper limb conditions including congenital anomalies, orthopedic conditions, and sports related injuries at Scottish Rite for Children in Dallas, TX. She received her Bachelor of Science in Therapeutic Recreation from Murray State University in 2005 and Master of Science in Occupational Therapy in 2008 from Spalding University. She became a Certified Hand Therapist in 2015. Prior to joining the Scottish Rite team, Lindsey began her career at Vanderbilt Children’s Hospital where she worked with a multidisciplinary team to serve hand, rheumatology, and brachial plexus clinics.
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On this episode, we are joined by Amy Lindsey, a physical therapist and Certified Hand Therapist who has lived the experience of being a patient in a hand therapy clinic. When she was a teenager, Amy was involved in an accident that left her with significant injuries to both of her hands. She spent extensive time working to regain functional use of her upper extremities and was inspired by her therapists to become a physical therapist and Certified Hand Therapist.
Guest bio: Amy Lindsey, PT, CHT is a physical therapist and Certified Hand Therapist who works closely with patients with various upper extremity orthopedic injuries. She realized her dream of becoming a therapist in 1993 after being in a severe MVA and losing the use of both hands. Through a year of physical therapy and 13+ orthopedic and cosmetic surgeries to regain use of her hands, she developed a great understanding and empathy for the people who have gone through a traumatic injury. Amy received a Bachelor’s degree in Exercise Science in 1999 and Masters of Physical Therapy in 2001 from Saint Louis University and has been working as a physical therapist specializing in the treatment of upper extremity injuries. She became a Certified Hand Therapist in 2007 and truly became a hand therapist with “first hand” experience. She decided to broaden her scope of practice and return to treatment of lower extremity injuries in 2015 after moving to Houston, TX while growing the hand therapy program in the Northeast Region for Memorial Hermann. Amy currently lives in Kingwood, TX and is a wife to husband of 23 years and mother to her 2 boys, ages 21 & 18. In her spare time, she enjoys gardening, lifting weights, walking/hiking, various outdoor activities and spending time with her family.
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On this episode, we are joined by Corey McGee, an occupational therapist and Certified Hand Therapist who has dedicated a significant portion of his career researching first CMC osteoarthritis. He shares with us some of the latest therapy interventions and thought paradigms when addressing thumb osteoarthritis as well as what is on the horizon.
Guest bio: Corey McGee, PhD, MS, OTR/L, CHT is an Associate Professor and Research Chair in the Department of Occupational Therapy at the University of Minnesota. There he studies hand therapy assessments and interventions for persons with hand osteoarthritis; teaches courses in orthotic fabrication, hand therapy practice, and anatomy and kinesiology; and mentors post-docs and PhD and OTD students. There he also serves as the academic coordinator for the MHealth-University of MN Hand Therapy Fellowship. Beyond this, Corey is an invited international speaker, the 2019 Nathalie Barr Lectureship Awardee, has received ASHT awards for best poster, best presentation, and best surgeon-therapist collaborative research project, and has been recognized as the Minnesota OT Association’s “OT of the Year” and “Researcher of the Year”. Corey has served as an editorial board member of the Journal of Hand Therapy; an ASHT research division member; a grant reviewer for the American Hand Therapy Foundation; and a peer-reviewer for numerous rehabilitation, engineering, and surgery journals.
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On this episode, we are joined by Peggy Faussett and Lindsey Williams, both occupational therapists and Certified Hand Therapists who are serving as the co-chairs for a new ASHT offering at this year’s annual meeting - the Pediatric Specialty Day. They share with us what we can expect from this new offering, how the day will be set up, the educational content, and the networking opportunities.
Guest bio: Mary “Peggy” Faussett, OTR, CHT received her Bachelor of Science in Exercise Science from Creighton University in Omaha, NE in 1999 and her Masters of Occupational Therapy from Chatham University in Pittsburgh, PA in 2001. She became a Certified Hand Therapist in 2012. She works at Children's Hospital Colorado (CHCO) as the Pediatric Hand Therapy Program Coordinator and Fellowship Coordinator in the department of Occupational Therapy. She and her team of eight CHTs and four pediatric OTs work with patients from new babies to young adults with upper extremity congenital, traumatic, and systemic conditions. Together, they provide hand therapy services in the NICU, in-patient, emergency room, operating room, out-patient clinics, and multidisciplinary clinics at multiple CHCO locations across Colorado. She has presented on topics related to pediatric hand therapy nationally and internationally. She serves locally on the board for the Denver Hand SIG and nationally for ASHT Education Division Pediatric Committee.
Lindsey Williams, OT, CHT is a pediatric occupational therapist and Certified Hand Therapist specializing in the treatment of pediatric upper limb conditions including congenital anomalies, orthopedic conditions, and sports-related injuries at Scottish Rite for Children in Dallas, TX. She received her Bachelor of Science in Therapeutic Recreation from Murray State University in 2005 and Master of Science in Occupational Therapy in 2008 from Spalding University. She became a Certified Hand Therapist in 2015. Prior to joining the Scottish Rite team, Lindsey began her career at Vanderbilt Children’s Hospital where she worked with a multidisciplinary team to serve hand, rheumatology, and brachial plexus clinics.
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On this episode, we are joined by Brocha Stern, the 2024 ASHT Annual Meeting Committee Chair. She shares with us what we can expect at this year’s annual meeting that will be held September 26-29 in St. Louis, Missouri.
Guest bio: Brocha Z. Stern, PhD, OTR, CHT is the Chair of the 2024 ASHT Annual Meeting Committee. She is a Certified Hand Therapist who currently works as an orthopedic health services researcher at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. She is an active volunteer with multiple national societies.
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On this episode, we are joined by Zack Sutton, a physical therapist and Certified Hand Therapist who is utilizing artificial intelligence in his clinical practice to increase efficiencies. He shares with us a variety of ways to implement AI in hand therapy and the various benefits of using AI in clinical practice.
Guest bio: Zach Sutton, PT, DPT, MS, MBA, ATC, CHT is co-owner of McMinnville Physical Therapy, PLLC. Zach’s current practice focuses on sports medicine with an emphasis on the upper extremity in an outpatient practice in McMinnville, TN. Zach is adjunct faculty at South College’s Doctor of Physical Therapy Program and contributed to the chapter on the hand in Hertling and Kessler’s 5th edition of Management of Common Musculoskeletal Disorders. At the 2022 Annual Meeting of the American Society of Hand Therapists, Zach presented on Current Concepts with Lateral Epicondylalgia. Most recently, at the American Physical Therapy Association’s Tennessee Chapter this Spring, Zach presented “Merging Minds - Clinical Mastery Meets AI Advancements.”
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On this episode of Hands in Motion, we are joined by Nora Barrett and Stephanie Kannas who are both hands therapists who are current Affiliate Directors on the board of the American Association for Hand Surgery. They share with us how therapists can become involved in AAHS and give us the inside scoop on the upcoming meeting that will be held in Hawaii in January 2025.
Guest bio: Nora Barrett, OTR/L, CHT, WCC
Nora has been a practicing occupational therapist since 1998 and a Certified Hand Therapist since 2006. She spent her early career as an inpatient therapist at rehabilitation centers, acute care hospitals and burn units in Boston, MA and Washington, DC before focusing in outpatient hands in Washington, DC, Baltimore, MD and Bend, OR. Nora moved to Charlottesville, VA in 2021 and joined the Hand Therapy Team at the University of Virginia Physicians Group where she works in the Hand Center and in an outpatient hand therapy practice. She received her Wound Care Certification in 2020 and is an active member of the American Society of Hand Therapists (ASHT) and the American Association for Hand Surgery (AAHS). She lectures routinely in wound care, burn therapy, trauma and peripheral nerve injury for ASHT, AAHS and various universities across the country.
Guest bio: Stephanie Kannas, OTD, OTR/L, CHT
Stephanie is the Director of the Occupational Therapy Fellowship Program, Coordinator of the Occupational Therapy Hand Fellowship Program and clinical lead occupational therapist in hand therapy at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. She is an assistant professor for the Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science. Stephanie serves on the AO North America Hand Education Committee and holds an Affiliate Member At Large position for the American Society of Hand Surgery. She received her baccalaureate degree in occupational therapy in 2000 from the University of St. Catherine in St. Paul, Minnesota. In 2016, she earned her post-professional doctoral degree in occupational therapy and successfully completed the hand therapy elective track from Rocky Mountain University of Health Professions in Provo, Utah. She is a Certified Hand Therapist. She has over 21 years of experience at the Mayo Clinic. The majority of her time has been focused on hand injuries varying from complex trauma cases while patients are hospitalized for outpatient therapy needs.
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Welcome back to another episode of Hands in Motion. On this episode, we are joined by Kim Pace, an occupational therapist who specializes in industrial rehabilitation. Kim shares with us what her role is in returning clients back to their jobs after injury. We discuss how she evaluates clients and ensures that they are ready to return to their job, if modifications are necessary, or if another job might be more suitable based on their functional abilities. Welcome to Hands in Motion, Kim.
Guest bio: Kimberly graduated from Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan in 1982. She spent eight years practicing in psychiatric occupational therapy and then for the last 34 years she has been involved in a variety of aspects of industrial rehabilitation. Kim performs Functional Capacity Evaluations, work evaluations, job site visits, job site videos, job coaching, and pre-employment testing. Kim has been at her current job for 22 years and has the privilege of working with 15 hand and orthopedic specialists which are on-site at all clinics where therapy is provided. Kim is very involved with the Michigan Occupational Therapy Association and was appointed by the governor to serve on the State of Michigan Occupational Therapy Board for six years. Kim's passion is to make sure clients receive therapy that will help them achieve their goals so they can resume their previous level of activity.
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On this episode, we are joined by Dr. Bryan Loeffler, an orthopedic surgeon who devotes a significant amount of his practice to treating patients who have experienced limb loss. He discusses with us the use of targeted muscle reinnervation, its indications, and how it has transformed care for patients to prevent pain and improve function.
Guest bio:
Dr. Loeffler specializes in the entire spectrum of hand and upper extremity disorders from the fingertips to the shoulder. He has a special interest in complex elbow conditions and peripheral nerve injuries. Dr. Loeffler has been awarded multiple research grants to fund various clinical studies as well as a basic science study on biologic solutions to improve rotator cuff healing. He has authored numerous book chapters and peer-reviewed articles on topics ranging from forearm injuries to shoulder and elbow replacement. Academic honors and achievements range from excellence in surgery to resident teaching award. He has also participated in two international medical missions, providing orthopaedic surgical care in underserved areas. Dr. Loeffler is a former NCAA Division I wrestler at the University of Maryland, and he remains active by running and spending time with his wife, Jennifer, and their three children.
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On this episode, we are joined by Emily Hartnett, an occupational therapist and certified hand therapist who has turned her hobby of rock climbing into a specialty area of practice. She shares with us common injuries sustained by rock climbers and unique aspects of caring for this patient population.
Guest bio:
Emily Hartnett, OTD, MOTR/L, CHT graduated with her Bachelors of Health Science in 2017, her Masters of Occupational Therapy in 2019, and her Doctorate of Occupational Therapy with a focus on rock-climbers' injuries in 2022 from Quinnipiac University. Emily is an avid rock climber herself and has been specializing in treatment of the upper extremity since she received her OT license in February of 2019. Emily has combined her hobby and career to treat rock climbers; she has developed effective return to climb protocols and effective strategies, such as PRO (Pulley Ring Orthotic, patent pending) fabrication and application, to allow climbers to continue to climb while rehabilitating from injury.
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On this episode, we are joined by Rob McClellan, our current ASHT Board Member at Large. Rob shares with us all of the benefits of being an ASHT member and a variety of ways to get involved in the organization. Welcome to Hands in Motion, Rob.
Guest bio:
Rob McClellan, OTR/L, CHT, COMT-UL has 23 years of experience working in hand and upper limb rehabilitation. He is an active member of the American Society of Hand Therapists serving on the Board of Directors as Board Member at Large, the Leadership Committee, and the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee. He is an active member of the American Association for Hand Surgery and is the Immediate Past President of the Georgia Hand and Upper Extremity Special Interest Group. He has had the opportunity to speak at previous ASHT Annual Conferences and the IFSSH/ IFSHT Triennial Congress in London. Rob is the Hand Program Coordinator for Physio/ Select Medical in Georgia
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We are joined by Dr Brad Grunert, a psychologist who has worked for many years with patients who have sustained traumatic injuries to their upper extremity. He shares with the techniques that we can utilize in our hand therapy sessions to support the psychological needs of our patients and help them cope with their injury.
Guest bio:
Dr. Grunert is a Professor of Psychology in the Department of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery at Medical College of Wisconsin. His areas of specialty include working with traumatically hand-injured patients, and he has published extensively in this area. He also has interests in psychogenic hand disorders and chronic pain disorders of the upper extremity. He is in his 47th year of practice and still enjoys the opportunity to assist patients in coping with the psychological residuals of hand injuries and their accompanying disability. Dr. Grunert is a fellow of Wisconsin Psychological Association and a member of the American Psychological Association.
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On this episode, we are joined by Yeiddy Ferreira, an occupational therapist who is spending three months volunteering as a hand therapist with Mercy Ships in Sierra Leone, Africa. Yeiddy shares with us what life is like living on the ship and caring for patients who have undergone surgery to their upper extremity.
Guest bio:
Yeiddy L. Ferreira, OTR/L is originally from the Dominican Republic. She graduated from Mercy University in Dobbs Ferry, New York with a Masters in Occupational Therapy. She has always had a passion for hand therapy and began working in the field after she graduated in 2021. In 2022, she went on her first medical mission trip as a hand therapist in the Dominican Republic. After this experience, her passion for serving and helping others grew further. This is when she came across Mercy Ships and accepted a three-month commitment to serve as a hand therapist in Sierra Leone, Africa. When not taking care of patients on the ship, Yeiddy spends her time studying for the CHT Xxam which she plans to take in November 2024.
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On this episode, we are joined by Ann Lucado, a physical therapist and Certified Hand
Therapist who led a team of clinicians to develop the clinical practice guideline, “Lateral
Elbow Pain and Muscle Function Impairments.” Ann shares with us what a clinical
practice guideline is and how they are developed, as well as the results of this guideline
and how therapists treating patients with lateral elbow pain can best utilize the
evidence.
Guest bio:
Ann Lucado, PT, PhD, CHT
Ann Lucado is a physical therapist and Certified Hand Therapist who has specialized in
upper extremity and orthopedic rehabilitation for the past 30 years. She is an active
member of the APTA’s Academy of Orthopedic Physical therapy and is currently serving
as the Chair of the Research Committee and Coordinator of Clinical Practice Guideline
Development for the Academy of Hand and Upper Extremity Physical Therapy. She
received her Master of Science in Community Health Education and Physical Therapy
and received her PhD in research methodology and design in Physical Therapy. Dr.
Lucado is currently an Associate Professor in the Doctor of Physical Therapy Program
at Mercer University located in Atlanta, Georgia. She has conducted numerous
instructional seminars and is the author of several research articles related to elbow
tendinopathies. She headed the Guideline Development group for the recently
published Clinical Practice Guideline related to Lateral Elbow Pain and Muscle Function
Impairments in the Journal of Orthopedic and Sports Physical Therapy.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-lucado-6a656520/
https://instagram.com/annlucado?igshid=NzZlODBkYWE4Ng%3D%3D&utm_sour
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