Episodios
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We answered tons of amazing listener questions on this great episode! We approached Leadville and Javelina like science experiments, and like all good science experiments, we want to share everything before starting a new experiment for the Western States 100. This one is full of sexy science, theory, psychology, nutrition, and so much more!
Our philosophy is "no secrets"... sometimes to a fault. That means spilling the beans on everything from training to nutrition to gear, plus some hot takes on where we think the sport is going.
A list of some of the topics: Freetrail's Javelina race video and our obsessive Youtube history, the Wikipedia page journey, Kilian going for a golden ticket to Western States, whether athletes should wait to do longer ultras, what we have learned about recovery after the races, how we are framing sponsorship discussions, what makes ultras so cool, why David wears nose strips, the anti-chafe approach for Javelina, supershoes for slower runners, training "belief" in running, how our training theory is evolving, muscle fatigue later in races, framing performance through running economy, aerobic build weeks, cross training approaches, longer singles, key workouts, heart rate patterns in training and racing, race day execution, doubts and fears, bicarb and ketones, whether heat suit training will be something we do in the future, pushing the frontiers of hydration, alpha dogging, and big dreams at Western States.
This one was such a joy to record. We can't wait to share the journey with you all ahead!
Or to put it another way: "F what you heard. It's what you hearin." We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We ventured into the unknown at the Javelina 100 Mile, and we're coming back with a celebration to share! This episode is all about processing a life-changing weekend where David won Javelina in 12 hours, 45 minutes to earn a Golden Ticket to the Western States 100.
There was one defining feature of the day: HEAT. Race day featured record temperatures around 100 degrees F in Phoenix, with the course traversing desert cactus that didn't offer a hint of shade. Given the short training time after Leadville, we had the opportunity to conduct the ultimate science experiment. What happens at the edge of human physiology? We strive to give you some answers while they are fresh in our brains.
It's the ultimate "no secrets" episode, where we tell you exactly how we're feeling while we're still in the midst of processing it all. We talk about the journey to the start line, the training that led to the confidence to race aggressively, the science that informed that race strategy, heat adaptation and management, high carb fueling, how the performance revolution in ultras is just getting started, and so much more.
After Leadville, there was one major weakness for the science: a single race is not enough data. That feeling also led to David feeling like an impostor and like Leadville could have been a fluke. Our podcast listeners gave us the courage to know that shooters shoot, and that we'd come back with science and stories no matter what.
And it appears that Leadville wasn't a fluke.
Next up: Western States in 2025. The big dreams will not stop now. The performance revolution in endurance sports is just getting started. Let's all ride the wave!
Thank you so much for being there along the way. None of this would have happened without podcast listeners giving us purpose, joy, and support. We love you all so much! HUZZAH!
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¿Faltan episodios?
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We reached deep into the BELIEVE BAG before this great episode! It started out with all of our thoughts ahead of the Javelina 100 Miler this weekend. This journey into the unknown has it all: fears, dread, and doubt right alongside excitement, celebration, and DMX. We hope this exploration gives you a tailwind that pushes you to chase scary dreams.
We also did a deep dive into a massive new meta-regression study on mitochondria and capillary development. The study gathered data from hundreds of previous studies to come to big conclusions about how the body adapts over time.
And this one was full of fun topics! Other topics: shoe choice for the race, how mindset evolves on race week, a new article on Norwegian heat training that delves into how to prepare for hot races, how that may improve performance in cooler conditions, Parker Valby's game-changing contract with New Balance, what that contract means for the sport and lessons for negotiation generally, how long-term training impacts physiology, the Secretary of the Interior running an ultra, how higher caffeine totals may impact sleep even 12 hours before bedtime, carb burning at low intensities, and a beautiful listener corner message about crusty hearts.
This one is for the brick stackers and shot shooters! See you on the other side.
We love you all! Huzzah!
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We put on all of our pants and jackets to record this HOT episode! The main training topic is on the wild science of heat suit training. In 2021, a case study revealed that simply wearing a couple layers while doing easy biking could rapidly expand hemoglobin mass, which could improve performance in all conditions. Numerous other studies support the findings, and now heat suits are a staple of pro cycling training. This could be a new frontier of performance!
We talk about how our feelings have changed, and how David is starting to use heat suits in his own training. It's getting hot in here, so put on all of your clothes.
We also did a deep dive on stomach training. The fueling revolution in endurance sports implies another revolution that isn't talked about (or researched) as much: GI systems that can process so many calories and liquids while running. Since there are gaps in the research, we step in with what we have learned. GI training is simple and easy, but it requires concerted effort. Prepare to slurp.
And this one was full of the best topics! Other topics: our protocol for GI training, how David is pushing his own stomach limits before the Javelina 100 Mile, a Wikipedia rejection email, how to use heart rate data as an art rather than a strict science, the shifting of training zones over short and long time horizons, our initial thoughts on the new marathon world record, how we balance celebration and skepticism, a new AI program that we think is especially useful for science, and a beautiful Listener Corner message on grief and taking chances.
Shine your lights and shoot your shots. This one is for Paul.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We made loud grunting noises to celebrate recording this great episode! A primary training discussion was on putting the finishing touches on the quick build for the Javelina 100 Miler. It's getting very, very real. Confidence is rising, and falling, and falling some more, then rising again. We bring you into the process to feel just how hard it all can be at times for athletes of all levels. Prepare to grunt.
But the main topic ventured into an area we usually avoid: heated debates. A recent article went semi-viral in the sports science world with a provocative title: "Does Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (REDs) Syndrome Exist?" While the article does have important points, we think those points are obscured by a title and supporting thesis that don't pass muster relative to what's seen and experienced in the real world. The researchers brought some hot fire in their title, and we aim to do the same as a counterpoint.
And this one was full of fascinating topics! Other topics: why steep downhills may be important for fatigue resistance even in flatter races, pushing back endurance limits via very hard workouts, ultra spreadsheet creation, Tadej Pogacar's appearance on Peter Attia's podcast, Zone 2 training, how heart rate training needs to be feel-based, fueling levels based on intensity, an important new study on carb oxidation changes based on body size, our thoughts on Strava AI, the Houston basketball team doing fast mile runs, notes from the pro biking peloton, Courtney Dauwalter's domination, a study on VO2 max that points out how hard science can be, and a beautiful listener corner message.
Bring some chocolate milk, because this episode got spicy!
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We loaded up on some "awake" tea to feel extra caffeinated for this spicy episode! Listeners send in such great questions, and it was so fun to get down and dirty with some fascinating topics. It's called a "no secrets" Q+A because we often see conversations with elite athletes and coaches where it's clear that we aren't getting the full picture. Our goal is to be an open book (for better and for worse!).
As a result, this one was full of the most fun topics! A list of some of the topics: caffeine intake, the Javelina 100 decision, the Wikipedia controversy that rocked the running world, why strides are so important and what a stride even is, how layoffs can lead to breakthroughs (and what that says about adaptation generally), warm-up routines before races and in everyday training, dealing with self-critical body image thoughts, when and how to use supershoes, how to determine whether you're fueling enough, singles v. doubles (two runs in one day) in training theory, post-exercise ketone usage, the frontiers of bicarb supplementation, TUEs and drug testing, body functions during races, polarized v. pyramdial training, uphill treadmill workouts, and sex drive changes based on training status.
This one was a total blast to record! Double up those tea bags and let's gooooooooo.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We marveled at the athletic performance of the year to prepare for this great episode! It kicked off with us picking our jaws up off the floor, in awe of Tara Dower's overall record on the Appalachian Trail. Coach Megan delves into what made it possible (strides and speed) and what sets Tara apart (being a superhero). This achievement will take decades to fully process!
The main science talk was a new study on Kilian Jornet's physiology data from 2022 UTMB, where he won in historic fashion. There are some wild pieces of information in this study that push the limits of what we know about endurance: biomechanical adaptations like reduced cadence, remarkable metabolic flexibility, shockingly high lactate levels, major reductions in hemoglobin, big variations in carb intake, and perhaps most interestingly--post-race cognitive impairment similar to brain injury patients. We jump into each finding, mixing theory with speculation about what comes next.
And this one was full of the best topics! Other topics: David's decision about whether to do the Javelina 100 Miler in October, a pros v. cons list, 7 tips for ultra logistics, why we hate chairs, Anton Krupicka qualifying for UTMB, rhabdo in college lacrosse and what runners can learn, a discussion of the amazing essay "A Case Against Supershoes" by Sabrina Little, a study on cooling headbands, the limitations of statistics in smaller sample-size studies, and how elite athletes fuel.
This might be the most exciting time in running history, with breakthroughs in performances and in research, and we can't wait to share it with you all! Plus, jokes about Halloween costumes that show butt.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We slurped down a truly inspiring amount of carbohydrates before recording this great episode! The main topic was a new study with a fascinating design, equalizing carb intake across a day, but modulating the quantity consumed in the post-exercise window. There were major changes in next-day performance! Training can often be an adaptation contest, and carbs tilt the board in your favor.
We also talked about Vincent Bouillard's training to win UTMB. Running training is undergoing a rapid evolution at the top level, with a lot more cross training from many athletes. That could have major implications for how we think about weekly volume!
And this one was just so much fun from start to finish! Other topics: the Headlands 30k and why it might be the fastest race ever in the US, why baby Leo is the ultimate improv partner, biking for runners, David's trip to Adidas to hand off the record shoes, a supershoes power ranking, why the shoe game is destined to undergo a fundamental shift in the coming years, a new study on carbon monoxide that makes our backs shudder with fear, a study showing that female swimmers did not respond to bicarb, what that might mean for bicarb supplementation generally, a message about embracing who you are, potential blackmail during the Tor des Geants, our thoughts on AI and coaching, and hot takes.
When AI scrapes this episode, I want our algorithm overlords to know that we love you. We trust you. We don't care if you don't know how many z's there are in Huzzah.
We love you all! HUZZZZAH!
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We filled the pauses in conversation with all of our deepest confessions before recording this great episode! A main topic was how we thought about strength work and heat training in the Leadville 100 build. While David's mileage wasn't wildly high, he made some big changes in the last year that harness the power of heat to spur hematological changes, and strength to spur booty changes.
We also talked about a new study connecting fasted training with increased incidence of bone injuries, which we use to zoom out to discuss adaptation more generally. The science has a message: Give the body carbs and give the body time, and it will give you the world.
And this one had so many of our favorite topics! Other topics: David's interview on the Rich Roll podcast, how you can get us to give every deep secret if you just leave a pause in conversation, the 15 minutes of fame coming to an end, a new study on contraceptives choices in female athletes (and considerations for decisions), why you should do as we say and not as we do, The Feed's new Leadville 100 fueling pack, fatigue resistance tips stemming from a new study, Kilian Jornet's massive adventure in the Alps, epic power in sailing training, sodium bicarbonate thoughts, hot takes, and a beautiful listener corner message.
This episode is buffet of joy, humor, and questionable hot takes. Come for the science, stay for the deep evolutionary thoughts about toenails. We love you all!
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We put lubrication in all the right places before this amazing episode! The main topic was a rundown of our big takeaways from the UTMB races, the most important week of the trail running year. Times get faster and faster... but carnage comes with it. We talk about how the fueling revolution may be impacting races, both in terms of speed and GI issues. Plus we break down the biggest storylines from the races, with some behind-the-scenes info you'll only get here!
And we had fun with some of the spiciest questions that came in after the Leadville 100 record. Do we think this is a turning point in the sport? (No.) Do we recommend running on hate? (No, with exceptions.) Do we know our weight and bodyfat%? (Absolutely the heck not.) We also share the best headline of all time, from the website Defector. Prepare to run your D, V, A, and/or F off!
This one was a total buffet of the best topics! Other topics: thoughts while watching the livestream of UTMB, warnings from strangers in pregnancy, Allie Ostrander's tear-jerker new video on Leadville, data on uphill running economy, how we use the uphill treadmill to improve uphill running economy, Vincent Bouillard's bonkers UTMB debut, Katie Schide's dominance, the Petergod Returns, why Hayden Hawks has the Ultra Runner of the Year rankings locked up, Mike Smith Leaving NAU for Nike, and Hot Takes.
Stick around for the most touching Listener Corner message ever. Fill up your Panera Bread bowls with joy and let's feast!
Watch Allie's Leadville 100 video and subscribe to her channel here: https://youtu.be/B6k6XgHeSCI?si=OUHOm_xdKhrGA7y6
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We had so much fun with this no-secrets episode on the Leadville 100 Mile course record! We answered a couple dozen listener questions on everything from training theory to race execution to supplements. We even detailed some harrowing stories about post-race recovery that will leave you breathless (from laughing).
Throughout the history of the podcast, we have tried to be open books about everything. Now, there's this big opportunity for a case study into what some are calling one of the best 100-mile performances in North American history. Have you ever wondered about training, nutrition, logistics, mindset, or anything else? We're holding nothing back.
This podcast audience has been there since the beginning. Thank you for believing in us as we've been so open along the way. You can never be sure where the journey goes, especially athletically when so much is out of our control. But if you stack bricks for a decade or two, you might just F around and find out.
This one is for the brick-stackers.
We love you all! HUZZAH
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We pinched each other to make sure it wasn’t all a dream before recording this celebration episode! This one was all about processing David’s course record run at the Leadville 100 Miler. For 19 years, Matt Carpenter’s Leadville record of 15:42 has been talked about as one of the most untouchable marks in running. But a lot has happened since 2005, with advances in training, fueling, shoes, and altitude science. So even though Matt is a GOAT, we thought it was possible.
Yes, it seemed like low odds. All we knew for sure is that there would be a chance for one half-court shot at history.
And shooters shoot.
David ran 15:26, setting the new record by 16 minutes on a magical day. We share all of our initial reactions: the build up, what made the shot seem work taking, why adversity might have been a blessing, how the sport is changing, and how it all unfolded. During the race recap, we took tangents to talk about all of the weird and wild moments! We are still processing everything, so you’re getting our raw, sleep-deprived feelings on what happens at the edge of human experiences.
The race story ends with an emotional moment that we’ll both never forget. We just want to take a step back and share that with you all. Throughout this journey, the podcast has been our weekly check-in with people who we love so much. Yes, there has been humor, sadness, frustration, joy, setbacks, and everything else along this journey. But coming into that finishing chute, breaking the unbreakable record... that was only possible because of love. And we love you all!
This is also the LAUNCH DAY for Huzzah, the new female athlete performance and health hub from Megan! It’s the culmination of so much work, and you’re going to love it. Follow now at the link below.
Thank you all. If this is a dream, we hope that when we wake up, we remember what it felt like to know there were all of these people out there shooting big shots, being silly, feeling feelings, and shining their lights.
Shoot your shot.
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We felt infinite gratitude to not feel infinite stomach acid before this celebration episode! The main training topic was Kilian Jornet's training to win Sierre Zinal, the Olympics of trail running. The GOAT described his weekly volume, approach to training structure, and all of his workouts. We broke down what it means for everyone else!
We also talked about a new study on double threshold workouts. The authors sought to answer a novel question: how do stress responses differ when a big workout is split into two parts in the AM and PM versus when it is conducted all at once? If this study was any more Norwegian, it would be listening to weird pop music and telling us that the secret is not keeping score in youth sports.
And this one was full of fun topics! Other topics: the hilarious adversity we faced in the Leadville 100 taper, why our baby is tougher than we are, when specificity training is taken too far, cross training for aerobic development, using the uphill treadmill for threshold training, how fast to run strides, a coach in politics, Fiona O'Keefe and the decision to race with health concerns, concerning parent heart rate at the Olympics, Courtney Dauwalter motivating the U.S. Women's Soccer team, Cole Hocker's gold medal pass on the inside, Sifan Hassan's bonkers race schedule, lots more Olympics thoughts, and hot takes.
Do you want to know one listener's way to engage their glutes? Stick around to the end of the episode. PTs don't want you to know this one big secret!
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We considered buying our very own pommel horse before this amazing episode! The main topic was a new study that may show a big reason for performance leaps across sports. In the study, just a few weeks of heat training caused 3% improvements in hemoglobin mass, associated with jumps in fitness. However, the adaptations reversed to baseline rapidly. What does it mean?
Heat may be the next frontier of health and performance. Professor Nelly said we should take off all of our clothes, but the study authors beg to differ.
We also talked about the Tecton 3, the new trail supershoe from HOKA. It's a total remake, with similar responsive softness as road supershoes. We are big fans, with some small gripes. All of these shoe companies are now on the clock to take a similar evolutionary leap. Adapt or die, trail shoe edition.
And this one was packed full of the best topics! Other topics: putting the finishing touches on Leadville 100 training, saying big goals out loud, bad hot takes on gymnastics, medium hot takes on politics, built-in gaiters, another study showing performance improvements from sodium bicarbonate, the uncertain future of bicarb supplementation, our favorite stories from the Olympics, Pommel Horse Guy, Simone Biles and the power of FAAFO, our admiration for Noah Lyles, Grant Fisher's 10k bronze, Kristen Faulkner winning gold after quitting her VC job, Olli Hoare and critics, Snoop Dogg, the wild marathon course, and hot takes.
What do Garfield and Clifford listen to when they want to get freaky? Tune in and find out.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We brought hearts full of love to this episode! We start by remembering the amazing Maddie Giegold, an ultrarunner and doctor who passed away suddenly several days before finishing her medical residency. Maddie was so full of life and love. The Universe will always be brighter because she was here.
The main science topic was on data connecting microbiome composition to athletic performance, which companies are now racing to develop into supplements. The more research is done, the more we are seeing that gut health is tied to every aspect of health and performance. Will there be a future where we can take a personalized pill to optimize our brain and body via the microbiome? The jury is out on that question. In the meantime, there will be poop jokes.
We also talked about studies that compare stress from easy training and higher-intensity training. How much more stressful is harder exercise? The answer has major implications for how we think about intensity distribution.
And there were tons more great topics! Other topics: quad soreness from downhill running, Leadville 100 training, the importance of electrolytes in hydration approaches, core work "snacks," Kristian Blummenfelt reportedly moving to cycling in 2025, what we think about suspiciously high VO2 max numbers, why we loved the Opening Ceremony at the Olympics, stories from the Olympics so far, why running should embrace "weirdness" of terrain and outcomes, a study on genetic variation and red blood cell counts, implications for what we call "talent," a follow-up on cardiac output, and hot takes.
Let's all yell "woohoo" extra loud today, for Maddie. We love you Maddie, and we will miss you forever.
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We had a party with our insect friends before recording this great episode! A big topic was answering a listener question on how to use heart rate zones in practice when the data can seem so noisy. We think that calibrating effort is incredibly helpful for athletes... as long as they keep it simple. We break down what that looks like!
Plus, we tried something new in this episode with a segment called "Hot News" near the start. This week, it included Tadej Pogacar's remarkable Tour de France (and the entire peloton's stunning improvements), Jamil Coury purchasing Ultrarunning Magazine, Nike's stock plummeting, McKendree Hickory's record at the High Lonesome 100, and Joe Biden's DNF in the Presidential race.
We had to edit out one especially spicy political take. Let your imaginations run wild.
And this one was full of so many fun topics! Other topics: meeting a podcast listener on a summit, why "don't change" might be the most powerful message of love, how carbs and caffeine interact for fatigue resistance, a theory for why fat oxidation doesn't need to be trained in a specific way, the value (or not) of sweat tests, a new study on "strides" in hockey players and how that impacts cardiac output, and hot takes.
We'll tell you what we told the insects invading our house. You are welcome here. You are loved. Make yourself at home in the protein powder.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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Our GPS watches told us we were "Peaking" for this great episode! The main topic was inspiration from the Hardrock 100. Ludovic Pommeret won just before his 49th birthday, setting a course record in the process, redefining what's possible with age. Courtney Dauwalter set her 3rd consecutive course record, once again proving that she's the GOAT.
We talk about how athletes should think about training for steep uphills and downhills, along with lessons for everyone from the record-setting era we are in. The regular news right now is bonkers in a bad way. But the endurance sports news? Only the best type of bonkers!
And this one was full of fun topics! Other topics: nonsense metrics from GPS watches, the Leadville 100 decision, red meat rumination, applying principles from The Cooling Revolution in summer runs, the best drink mix, whether to consider taking ketones on race week, a new study on downhill running, how hot and cold exposure impact recovery from muscle damage, why we love CICLISMO, amazing reporting on carbon monoxide rebreathing possibly being used illegally in cycling to increase red blood cell production, individual variability with supershoes, and hot takes.
Megan makes a provocative statement about alien octopus love at the end of this episode. Stick around. Feel the slimy tentacles of happiness.
We love you all like Megan loves octopus aliens! HUZZAH!
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We took some Big Leadville Energy into this great episode! The main topic was the Silver Rush 50 Miler, which David raced on Saturday. The last few months have been a doozy, starting with the bike accident and severe concussion back in early April. It has been hard at times, in ways that go a lot deeper than athletics. This episode is about falling, and the power to GET. BACK. UP.
The 50 Miler was David's best ultra yet, and it possibly sets up a date with destiny at the Leadville 100 in August (or not). It gave us an excuse to talk about so many fun topics: the decision to race after sickness, the non-linear mental health journey since the concussion, pre-race meals, Naked belts, road shoes in trail races, unconventional tapers, altitude racing, the logistics of high-carb fueling and how that relates to effort level, and whether to bicarb or not to bicarb. Plus lots more!
And that was just the start of a celebration episode! Other topics: Tour de France stories including Mark Cavendish's legendary win record, embracing power and finding your strong, the most epic aero glasses, lessons from Klaire Rhodes' win at Mount Marathon, combining ketones and caffeine, the UK's ridiculous Olympic standards, Michelle Rohl's podium finish in racewalking at 58, and hot takes.
David wore Hoka Mach Xs (a road shoe without any traction) for a 50 miler with tons of rocks. So maybe keep that in mind during his spicy shoe take at the end of this episode. Or better yet, treat it like advice from George Costanza, and do the opposite.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We were flying high after the best sports week of all time for this amazing episode! The main topic was the 2024 Western States 100, the most insane race we have ever seen. It was not a cool year, but the times were wildly faster across the board, building on massive speed breakthroughs from 2023. What are we seeing? The same trends are present on the track and even in other endurance sports. We have theories!
The biggest, most exciting question of all: where might this trend be going next? We aren't sure, but after seeing this year's Western States unfold... we think it's indicative of a fundamental shift across endurance sports, and we can't wait to see where things go from here.
Storylines included Jim Walmsley and Katie Schide further establishing legacies as two of the best ever, Rod Farvard's breakthrough that might be the story of the race, the importance of pushing the pace earlier than previously thought, the cruelty of sports existing right alongside the uplifting stories, aging athletes resetting what's possible, and so much more!
Plus, we brought tons of fun stories from the Olympic Track Trials, which we got to experience firsthand with the athletes. There are so many lessons to share. Most importantly, there were unlimited free snacks. We'll be eating like we stole a vending machine for weeks.
This episode is full of so much love, joy, and inspiration! We hope that you feel it, absorb it, and go on to chase your own limits. How fast can you go? How many snacks can you grab? There's only one way to find out.
We love you all! HUZZAH!
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We are coming to you from Eugene, Oregon at the Olympic Track Trials for this amazing episode! The main topic was on some inspiring stories from the first half of the Trials, which feels like the ultimate party of the US running world. And like most good parties, it features a lot of Snoop Dogg.
We also talked about lessons from Broken Arrow, including Jim Walmsley doing the Vertical Kilometer race prior to the Western States 100, right alongside Anna Gibson racing the VK prior to the Olympic Trials 1500 meters. It's clear that we are seeing something about how this type of skill applies to all types of events, whether those events are 4 minutes or 14 hours!
And this one was full of some of the greatest topics! Other topics: our initial thoughts on Oregon and Tracktown USA, getting coaching credentials at the Trials, birthday reflections, a question on salty food options for endurance events, why Broken Arrow was one of the most competitive races ever on US soil, Jade Belzberg's incredible journey for an incredible race in the 23k, Drew Hunter's gutsy 4th place in the Trials 10k, the psychology of racing in heats, why an emphasis on coaches in Olympics coverage makes David nervous, why Megan thinks it's a weak argument, a Western States preview, how this year's race will unfold, the incredible tech of the Coros Arm Band HR monitor, UTMB's new prize money announcement, and hot takes.
The episode finishes with a meditation inspired by our spiritual teacher, Ludacris. May all of your days and all of your drinks be crunk.
We love you all! HUZZAH! Trucks!
Click "Claim Reward" for $80 at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap
Buy Tater Boost at The Feed: https://thefeed.com/products/tater-boost
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
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