Episodios
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Sam and Ryan talk about using Cloudflare Tunnel for local development, the new React Compiler beta release, and why reading or writing refs during render violates the rules of React.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro1:42 - Cloudflare Tunnel7:06 - React Compiler14:21 - Reading or writing refs during renderLinks:
Cloudflare TunnelReact Compiler Beta releaseReact Docs Pitfall on refs -
Sam and Ryan talk about building a useAnimatedText hook that can animate streaming text. They also discuss how React code that uses state changes to approximate events can be simplified, and the benefits of having escape hatches when building UI with Catalyst.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro1:22 - Catalyst and escape hatches16:03 - Building a useAnimatedText hook (aka useBufferedText)54:10 - Avoiding using state changes to approximate eventsLinks:
CatalystSam's Tweet about useBufferedText and AnimatedScrolleruseAnimatedText recipeIntl.Segmenter on MDNDavid K's Tweet on eventsRicky's Tweet on Intersection ObserverBuild UI's new course -
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Sam and Ryan talk about how frameworks and infrastructure evolve with each other, using Next.js as a representative example. They discuss how hosting providers like Heroku have always imposed certain constraints on apps, what features those constraints enable hosting providers to support, how burdensome those constraints are across different frameworks, and how frameworks that add infra-specific APIs can best communicate the costs of those APIs and benefits they enable.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro3:03 - Heroku and the Twelve-Factor App7:39 - GitHub Pages and static sites13:57 - Serverless and JAMstack17:30 - Vercel and CDNs, self-hosting, and Next.js19:00 - How framework APIs can nudge an app towards a particular hosting solution23:09 - What constraints does Next.js impose on your app (e.g. middleware doesn't run node), and what benefits do those constraints give you?36:13 - How Next.js APIs are motivated by wanting to tease apart static and dynamic code, in an attempt to support the needs of any web app with a single stack40:33 - What is the relationship between frameworks and infra?47:37 - How can frameworks that add infra-specific APIs best communicate the costs of those APIs and the benefits they enable?Links:
The Twelve-Factor App -
Tom Occhino, Chief Product Officer at Vercel and former Engineering Director at Facebook, joins Sam to talk about the pivotal moments in React's history. He talks about how React popularized the ideas of declarative rendering and unidirectional data flow, how GraphQL furthered React's goal of co-locating all the concerns of a particular piece of UI, the problems that GraphQL led to at Facebook and how Relay solved them, and how Suspense, Server Components, and PPR are the generalized spiritual successors to the stack used at Facebook.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro2:53 - Declarative rendering as React's legacy8:12 - How GraphQL enabled complex components to be fully self-contained20:12 - How React's goal has always been to co-locate all the concerns of a particular piece of UI22:58 - The problem with co-locating GraphQL with components, and how Relay solved it26:28 - How RSC is the generalized spiritual successor to BigPipe and GraphQL34:46 - What PPR is, and how it and Suspense fit into this story55:55 - The general paradigm shift of getting static code to the device as soon as possibleLinks:
Tom Occhino with Ben DunphyReact: The DocumentaryReact Roundtable with Andrew Clark and Sebastian MarkbÄgeTom Occhino on Twitter -
Sam and Ryan talk about render props in React. They discuss where they came from, how Hooks superseded them for sharing stateful logic, how data attributes compare to them for customizing styling, and how for certain complex components like forms they're still a great solution for accessing slices of internal state.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro3:40 - Where did render props come from?6:01 - How hooks replaced many use cases for render props8:14 - Using render props for custom styling10:32 - Data attributes vs. render props for custom styling16:43 - Using render props to peek into an uncontrolled component's internal state21:05 - Forms example and using render props for a smaller public API24:10 - React docs mention of render props25:48 - Where render props shineLinks:
Headless UI MenuRadix FormsReact Aria FormsReact docs - Render propsOur upcoming course on React Component PatternsEmail SamEmail Ryan -
Sam and Ryan discuss controlled and uncontrolled components in React. They talk about how uncontrolled components can be thought of as components that manage their own internal state, why you should model your complex React components after the simpler APIs of native HTML elements like inputs, why you shouldn't try to make components that are both controlled and uncontrolled, and why making a new component boundary is sometimes all you need to make your custom components behave more predictably.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro1:41 - What are controlled and uncontrolled components?6:11 - How to change a component from uncontrolled to controlled8:48 - How do you decide when to use a controlled or uncontrolled component?12:00 - Sortable table example and a single source of truth15:27 - Is it always either controlled or uncontrolled?21:09 - Color picker example and not exposing internal state28:46 - Sortable list example with Framer Motion39:45 - Component boundaries and wearing two hats: the library author vs. library consumer41:43 - How do you know if you are using the wrong approach?Links:
New course: Advanced React Component PatternsReact docs: Controlled and uncontrolled componentsReact docs: Storing state from previous rendersEmail SamEmail RyanFrontend First on Twitter -
Sam and Ryan talk about the pattern of building unstyled components with React. They discuss why unstyled components were created, how they improve upon composition patterns from UI libraries like Bootstrap, how they can be used to share behavior and logic without prescribing any styling opinions, and how they fit into a larger collection of React patterns that can be used to build more powerful components that avoid premature abstractions.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro1:36 - What are unstyled components?2:24 - How do unstyled components improve upon earlier patterns?6:44 - Why would you want to use an unstyled component?9:58 - How can you compose an unstyled component with a styled component?16:41 - How to decide which pattern is best suited for the code you want to share19:36 - Using patterns that preserve React's locality of behavior24:49 - How do you know if an abstraction is good?32:54 - Build UI's upcoming course on Advanced React Component PatternsLinks:
Build UI's newest course: Advanced React Component PatternsSam's YouTube video on Recursive ComponentsEmail SamEmail Ryan -
Sam and Ryan talk about what sorts of capabilities a tool should have to be considered a web framework. They discuss how frameworks tackle the complexity of getting different systems to communicate with each other, how good frameworks embrace the strengths and patterns of the language they're written in, and why frameworks and services are not in opposition to each other.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro3:58 - Adapter pattern and cohesive boundaries9:43 - Rails is Omakase13:47 - Configurable, but still cohesive17:04 - Frontend frameworks try to âwork with everythingâ21:42 - Does composition mean a React framework will look different than Rails?29:29 - Why taste still matters34:20 - A framework is a shell of adapters and a brain that coordinates them35:16 - When using services, complexity still exists in the in-between37:59 - A fullstack dev is someone who acknowledges and understands how all the parts come together44:06 - Tweets about the hard problems that Laravel tackles, and the deep design it took to get there49:15 - Frameworks should embrace the strengths and patterns of their language and ecosystem50:35 - Why RSCs and Server Actions mean the âRails for JSâ may end up looking nothing like Rails52:11 - Why users of a âfullstack frameworkâ shouldnât even care about where the code is running55:31 - Why libraries or services that are easy to install and set up are not a replacement for frameworksLinks:
Sam's BigSkyDevCon talkRails is omakasePovilas' Laravel tweetMary's Laravel tweetBuild UI's upcoming React Component Patterns courseEmail SamEmail Ryan -
Sam joins Lane Wagner in a crossover episode with the Backend Banter podcast. They talk about abstractions in frontend and backend frameworks, what JavaScript is doing differently from other languages and frameworks, why the frontend should drive the backend even if you're building in a server-side framework, and what's so special about React Server Components.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro2:12 - When abstractions leak6:37 - Recap of Sam's BigSky talk10:51 - What is JavaScript doing differently?19:10 - Why frontend frameworks should have more backend features24:04 - Strong opinions on a library level30:29 - Shipping more standardized interfaces37:06 - The frontend should be driving everything in the backend39:12 - Your types should flow from the database to the frontend, but not your product decisions46:53 - React Server ComponentsLink:
Backend Banter -
Sam and Ryan read and discuss a fantastic interactive blog post about queueing in HTTP written by Sam Rose.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro6:57 - Queueing: An interactive study of queueing strategies9:05 - Why do we need queues?13:16 - FIFO and timing out17:55 - LIFO20:58 - Priority queues25:21 - Active queue management29:08 - Comparing queues36:32 - ConclusionLinks:
Queueing: An interactive study of queueing strategiesUp and Down the Ladder of Abstraction -
Sam and Ryan discuss the new features in React 19 that will specifically benefit developers building single-page applications. They talk about how Suspense and Transitions let developers "teach" React about when their apps are in a loading or a pending state, how Client Actions improve upon using events in React 18 to handle data mutations, and how Actions enable React Components to automatically render and discard optimistic updates without any knowledge of the application's data layer. They also discuss several new Hooks like useOptimistic, useFormStatus, useActionState, and useOptimistic.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro2:19 - How SPAs are built in React 185:29 - How Suspense made loading a first-class concept in React7:48 - The problem with data writes in React 1810:37 - What are Client Actions?12:05 - What does it look like to use Actions?14:13 - What are the benefits of Actions?18:46 - How does React 19 change the Optimistic UI story?29:40 - Working with Transitions outside of Actions36:06 - The useActionState Hook37:51 - Using Transitions to keep the old UI rendered and responsive41:25 - How Transitions enable better composition patterns in third-party libraries43:55 - Building a SortableList that flips between being controlled and uncontrolledLinks:
React Unpacked: A Roadmap to React 19 -
Sam tells Ryan about a recent talk he gave at BigSkyDevCon. They chat about how backend frameworks are raising the ceiling of what UIs theyâre capable of delivering, how frontend frameworks are raising the floor of what backend features they come bundled with, and what each community can learn from the other.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro4:23 - Recap of Ryan Florenceâs talk6:49 - Overview of "High floor, high ceiling"10:02 - Cohesion is the biggest strength of backend frameworks17:10 - Why doesnât Rails for JavaScript exist?23:48 - Locality of behavior is the biggest strength of frontend frameworks33:14 - The use of lexical scope in React50:27 - Which community is raising both the floor and ceiling the most?Links:
"High floor, high ceiling" talk -
Sam and Ryan talk about the difference between the costs of building a feature and the benefits that feature brings to our end users. They discuss how libraries and frameworks can lower the technical cost of building a given feature, how Ryan Florence framed this calculation in his talk at Big Sky Dev Con, and how sometimes developersâ opinions and tastes about tech can smuggle their way from the cost side of the equation into the benefit side.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro6:53 - How Ryan Florence framed the problem in his talk âMind the Gapâ14:38 - How frontend frameworks and backend frameworks both have their own ways of crossing the network gap19:11 - How Network-Sensitive Interactions force technologies to grapple with both server and client environments23:02 - How React is trying to lower the cost of moving interactions between the server and client with Server Components and Server Actions26:53 - Why âUse the right tool for the jobâ doesnât capture the dynamic requirements of living software31:53 - How discussions about the product benefits of a feature and the technical costs of that feature are often conflated with each other34:08 - A thought experiment from economics that highlights how uncertainty plays a role in the estimation of product benefits56:54 - How to think about tech choice independently of the estimation of product benefitsLinks:
"Mind the Gap" by Ryan FlorenceZero-JavaScript View Transitions in Astro -
Ryan tells Sam about his experiments with using the new View Transitions API in a React photo gallery app. He talks about how he likes the flexibility of the API, how to think about integrating it into any client-rendered app regardless of the framework, and how he used a Promise with an Effect to tie a View Transition to a React Transition.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro1:11 - What itâs like to integrate View Transitions with React7:30 - How View Transitions work16:09 - Building a gallery that animates photos across page navigations19:38 - How to use startViewTransition for enter/update/exit animations26:52 - Using a Promise to link a View Transition to a React Transition43:02 - Do View Transitions replace framework-specific animation libraries?45:17 - Using DevTools to preview and tweak transitionsLinks:
easings.netIonic Framework's animation curvesShuâs next-view-transitions library -
Sam tells Ryan about his experience setting up an in-browser code editor with CodeMirror that he plans on using for blog posts and code recipes, as well as what he thought about using Radix Themes for the first time in earnest on a side project of his currently styled with Tailwind.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro4:01 - Building an authoring tool with CodeMirror18:47 - Refactoring Tailwind to Radix ThemesLinks:
CodeMirrorSamâs YouTube video on Radix ThemesRadix Themes docs -
Sam and Ryan talk about why itâs better to think of throw as a general-purpose JavaScript language feature rather than something that should only be used for error handling. They discuss the ambiguity around the phrase âerror handlingâ, situations that call for dealing with errors locally vs. globally, and how throw can be useful for non-error control flow. They also discuss the problems with trying to shoehorn dynamic features into a static site.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro4:07 - Error handling vs. throw-try/catch23:34 - Errors vs. Exceptions31:52 - How Next.js uses throw for non-error control flow40:44 - Adding a dynamic feature to a static siteLinks:
Global progress in Next.jsWhat color is your functionAlgebraic Effects for the Rest of Us -
Sam and Ryan discuss the core values of the Next.js framework, and how those values motivate several of the frameworkâs design decisions. They talk about caching, why layouts donât have access to the URL, and why the router doesnât expose navigation events, as well as how developers should think about extending Nextâs functionality with their own application code.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro2:58 - Why donât layouts re-render in Next.js?7:10 - Push-based vs. pull-based rendering8:56 - Thinking about re-renders in a pure React app11:07 - Why Server Actions need to call the revalidate* APIs12:26 - Why doesnât Next.js pass the request to every page and layout?31:40 - Immediate-mode rendering vs. âDo the least amount of work possibleâ51:54 - Is opting-in to more re-renders framework fighting?53:44 - Helping users by communicating the philosophy56:25 - Why doesnât Next.js expose global router events?1:00:17 - Why itâs important to understand Nextâs design decisions when choosing it for your next project -
Sam talks to Ryan about refactoring an MDX blog post to a React Server Component. They discuss how RSCâs ability to render server-side content with âclient-side holesâ turns out to replace MDX for many uses cases. They also talk about other tools that are (surprisingly) a conceptual subset of the RSC architecture, such as custom Webpack loaders.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro5:05 - The Next.js happy path for MDX: Local files11:15 - Exploring remote MDX content with mdx-remote14:46 - Separating the serializable parts of MDX from the runtime imports17:13 - Realizing that RSC covers the same problem space, and ditching MDX26:50 - Exploring other APIs and plugin ecosystems that RSC could replace: Webpack loaders, next/image, and Liquid templates32:11 - Reactâs vision for RSCs35:18 - How RSCs could replace build-time plugin APIs44:51 - Replacing MDX with Markdoc, Shiki, and custom node code during renderLinks:
MarkdocShiki -
Sam and Ryan read and discuss the latest update from React Labs.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro5:26 - Opening6:18 - React Compiler27:27 - Actions51:44 - Asset loading1:13:06 - Next Major Version of React1:15:42 - ActivityLinks:
React Labs blog postSamâs video on Strict Mode -
Sam and Ryan discuss the intuition behind React Transitions, and why Reactâs new useOptimistic hook is a good fit for building a URL-driven filter panel that stays fully responsive to client interactions.
Topics include:
0:00 - Intro1:12 - The problem: In a world of Server Components, URL updates are blocked by a server-side roundtrip10:44 - Attempted solution: Use the browserâs Native History API (history.pushState)15:03 - Realization: The source of truth flips from server to client during the transition â which is exactly what useOptimistic was designed for17:54 - Unwinding our mental model of client-first React apps by thinking about how HTML-only checkout forms work21:44 - The intuition behind React Transitions, and how they put our UI into a state of preparation30:39 - How Transitions improve upon default browser behavior by keeping our current UI 100% responsive, and how useOptimistic solves the checkbox filter panel37:46 - Ryanâs take: Itâs a bonus when tools make you feel smart, but itâs more important for them to not make you feel dumb - Mostrar más
