Episodios
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In this episode, Michael Mauboussin, adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, hosts Phil Ruvinsky, Managing Director and Head of the Fundamental U.S. Growth Team at BlackRock. With extensive experience in the investment industry, Phil shares his journey from law to finance, discusses his investment philosophy, and explains the importance of sustainable competitive advantages. The conversation explores the evaluation of management, the impact of AI on the competitive landscape, and the nuances of portfolio construction. Phil also highlights the role of macroeconomic factors and regulatory changes in investment decisions, shares his thoughts on the future of active management in an increasingly indexed market, and much more!
Key Topics:
Introduction to Phil's career and background (1:06)
Transition from law to investment and early career challenges (2:15)
Importance of business school in shaping investment philosophy (3:47)
Recommended books for new team members (4:22)
Utilizing competitive strategy analysis in investment decisions (5:50)
Unique characteristics of technology, media, and telecom sectors (7:03)
Analysis of return on invested capital in different business models (9:10)
Approaches to valuation and use of different tools (10:25)
Evaluating the importance of management in investment decisions (12:15)
Impact of AI and generative AI on the competitive landscape (14:17)
Application of AI in the investment process (18:07)
Trends in market concentration and their implications (20:26)
Effects of indexing and rules-based investing on markets (23:27)
Corporate governance, capital allocation, and executive compensation (25:35)
Differences between being an analyst and a portfolio manager (28:02)
Portfolio construction and risk management (29:38)
Considering macroeconomic factors in investment decisions (32:00)
Concerns and excitement about the future (34:21)
Phil's book recommendations (35:58)
And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford
Expectations Investing: Reading Stock Prices for Better Returns by Michael Mauboussin
Competition Demystified: A Radically Simplified Approach to Business Strategy by Bruce Greenwald
The Platform Delusion: Who Wins and Who Loses in the Age of Tech Titans by Jonathan Nee
Napoleon Unleashed: A History of the Revolutionary, Emperor, and Military Genius who Reshaped Europe and Defined Modern Leadership by Aeon History
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts by Annie Duke
Thanks for Listening!
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In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Anu Bradford, the Henry L. Moses Professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School, to discuss the intricate dynamics of global technology regulation. Anu is recognized for her deep expertise in international economic law. Her pivotal books "The Brussels Effect" and "Digital Empires" explore how significant regions like the US, EU, and China shape technological standards worldwide. The conversation probes the complexities of regulating big tech companies across different legal and political landscapes, highlighting the significant influence of European regulations on global markets. She also touches on the impact of regulatory practices on innovation, the challenges of enforcing extensive digital laws, and the future trajectory of global tech governance. This episode offers a comprehensive look into the power struggles and cooperative efforts that define international technology regulation and much more!
Key Topics:
Introduction to Anu Bradford and her background (04:01) The unique position of the EU in global regulatory practices and its impacts (10:48) Detailed exploration of "The Brussels Effect" and its significance (12:56) Global market influence through regulatory strategies (17:02) The challenges and methodologies of tech regulation in the EU, US, and China (31:55) The role of data security and privacy in international relations and tech regulation (43:06) Future challenges and directions in global technology regulation (52:47) The preservation of liberal democracy in the digital age (54:51) Anu's book recommendations (58:56) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford The Brussels Effect: How the European Union Rules the World by Anu Bradford Chip War: The Quest to Dominate the World's Most Critical Technology by Chris Miller Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman High Wire: How China Regulates Big Tech and Governs Its Economy by Angela Huyue ZhangThanks for Listening!
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¿Faltan episodios?
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In today's discussion, Jonathan Knee, a distinguished advisor at Evercore Partners and Professor of Professional Practice of Media and Technology at Columbia Business School, explores the themes of his influential work, "The Platform Delusion." Jonathan's insights stem from a rich career in both the banking and academic sectors, bringing a nuanced perspective on digital versus analog platforms, competitive strategies, and the evolving landscape of technological advancements. The conversation uncovers the myths surrounding platform businesses and their impact on the economic principles that govern market dynamics. Jonathan also discusses the implications of regulatory frameworks and their intersection with business strategies in shaping industries and so much more!
Key Topics:
Jonathan Knee's background and expertise in media and technology (01:40) The initial impetus behind writing "The Platform Delusion" and the misconceptions it addresses (13:14) Definitions and the real economic underpinnings of platform businesses (17:52) Competitive advantages and the robustness of network effects in digital platforms (35:02) Exploring the sustainability of various business models within tech giants like Meta and Google against emerging technologies (44:51) Insights into the strategic decisions that have fortified Apple's market position over the years (48:38) The impact of generative AI on existing business ecosystems and future market trends (55:36) Societal and technological transformations influencing today's business environment (58:55) Jonathan’s book recommendations (01:01:30) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Evercore Partners Columbia Business School The Platform Delusion by Jonathan Knee Small Things Like These by Claire KeeganThanks for Listening!
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In the third episode of Season 10, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with James Bessen, Executive Director of the Technology and Policy Research Initiative at Boston University. Delving into the intricacies of technological advancement and market dynamics, Bessen shares his insights on the evolving landscape of competition and innovation. The discussion highlights the impact of proprietary software on industry disruption, exploring the significant shift from mass production to mass customization facilitated by technology. This episode not only provides a deep dive into the challenges and opportunities presented by the digital age but also prompts a reflection on the future of value investing in a tech-dominated world and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome to Season 10 of Value Investing with Legends (0:20) Exploring the concept of barriers to entry in value investing (1:05) James Bessen discusses technology's economic impact (3:15) Analysis of the decline in economic disruption despite technological growth (5:10) Impact of proprietary software on industry stability and market concentration (6:35) Historical perspective on technology's influence on the economy (8:25) The role of proprietary software in shaping competitive dynamics (10:30) The transition from mass production to mass customization in retail (12:05) Walmart’s evolution and strategy in retail sector dynamics (14:20) Discussion on the concept of skill premium and technological advancements (24:55) Artificial intelligence’s influence on market dynamics and job skills (26:10) Examining the pace and implications of innovation diffusion (31:00) Regulatory challenges and tech dominance in the market (34:10) Concentration of innovation and its economic implications (36:20) James’ book recommendations (43:10) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
The New Goliaths: How Corporations Use Software to Dominate Industries, Kill Innovation, and Undermine Regulation by James Bessen Learning by Doing: The Real Connection between Innovation, Wages, and Wealth by James Bessen The Great Reversal: How America Gave Up on Free Markets by Thomas Philippon The Lever of Riches: Technological Creativity and Economic Progress by Joel Mokyr Worldly Philosopher: The Odyssey of Albert O. Hirschman by Jeremy AdelmanThanks for Listening!
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In this episode, Tano Santos sits down with Jan Hummel, CIO of Paradigm Capital, revisiting his investment strategies and exploring the nuanced dimensions of risk management in the evolving European asset landscape. Jan discusses the foundational investment philosophy of Paradigm Capital, emphasizing risk minimization and the strategic deployment of assets across Europe. Key discussions pivot around the firm's selective investment criteria, focusing on companies in the small to mid-cap space and the significance of geographical and cultural nuances in their investment decisions. This conversation offers listeners insights into the subtleties of value investing, portfolio construction, the implications of geopolitical and economic dynamics on market opportunities, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Introduction and background of Jan Hummel (0:37) Fundamental tenets of investment philosophy at Paradigm Capital (1:25) The impact of European market dynamics on investment strategies (7:25) Sourcing and valuing investment opportunities (9:47) Specific approaches to risk management and hedging strategies (22:23) Portfolio sizing and the decision-making process behind exiting investments (26:00) The role of geographical focus in Paradigm's investment strategy (29:12) Valuation techniques and practical applications in portfolio management (32:03) Trends and challenges in the European asset management industry (36:48) Macro-economic factors influencing market conditions and investment decisions (40:30) Prospects for growth and opportunities in the European financial landscape (45:17) Jan’s book recommendations (46:06) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
The Fiscal Theory of the Price Level by John Cochrane Paradigm Capital Columbia Business SchoolThanks for Listening!
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In this heartfelt episode, we pay tribute to Charlie Munger, the visionary vice chairman of Berkshire Hathaway who recently passed away. Joining us is Todd Combs, an investment officer at Berkshire Hathaway and a close acquaintance of Munger. Todd shares personal anecdotes and insights into Munger's profound influence on the investment world and his unique approach to life and business. From his early meetings with Munger to the invaluable lessons on value investing and rational thinking, Todd provides an intimate look into the wisdom of one of the greatest investors of our time.
Key Topics:
Celebrating Charlie Munger’s contributions and legacy (01:20) Todd’s initial encounters with Munger (02:15) The intellectual journey and partnership between Munger and Buffett (08:57) Munger's approach to life, investing, and the importance of mental models (11:22) Behavioral economics insights shared by Munger (13:00) The practical applications of Munger’s wisdom in business and investing (16:17) Munger’s lasting impact (24:59) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger by Charles T. Munger Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel KahnemanThanks for Listening!
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Today's discussion with Kim Lew, President and CEO of the Columbia Investment Management Company, traverses her unique journey from her roots in the Bronx to managing a prominent Ivy League endowment. Kim shares her insights on navigating the intricate world of investment management, particularly in risk management and asset allocation. With a career marked by pivotal roles at entities like the Ford Foundation and Carnegie Corporation, her expertise brings a nuanced understanding of the interplay between market dynamics and organizational strategy. This episode explores how adaptability, intellectual curiosity, and understanding global trends shape successful investment approaches.
Key Topics:
Kim's early career and transition to finance (2:59) Role at Chemical Bank and career progression (5:05) Experience at Prudential Capital and Ford Foundation (9:27) Shift to Carnegie Corporation and Columbia Investment Management (18:07) Challenges of managing a larger endowment (20:13) Aligning endowment goals with university values and ESG considerations (22:08) Comprehensive approach to risk management (26:54) Asset allocation and balancing public vs. private markets (34:06) The concept of future-proofing investment strategies (41:19) Organizational behavior in asset management (48:54) Importance of intellectual curiosity in team members (55:11) Kim’s book recommendations (1:01:01) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Columbia Finance The Worlds I See: Curiosity, Exploration, and Discovery at the Dawn of AI by Fei-Fei Li Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away by Annie Duke Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater ThingsThanks for Listening!
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In the complex world of financial markets and economic fluctuations, John Armitage, a seasoned investment maestro, sits down with us today. As the chief strategist behind the success of Egerton Capital, Armitage brings his profound insights into navigating the complexities of portfolio management and the subtle art of risk-taking in fluctuating markets. His expertise, honed through years of experience, sheds light on the critical impact of macroeconomic shifts and the pitfalls that stock pickers often encounter amidst outdated corporate data. This episode delves into passive investing, dissecting the crucial role of competitive dynamics in sectors like European aviation and examining the transformative impact of a growing talent pool on the traditional realms of asset management. Armitage also ventures into the ethical crossroads, intertwining moral integrity, societal upheaval, and the revolutionary wave of artificial intelligence. We uncover his focus on growth, governance, and quality, underpinned by a meticulous decision-making process at Egerton Capital, his literary pursuits, pondering over the influence of literature on his investment philosophy, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Overview of Egerton Capital (1:42) Transitioning from broad ideas to specific investments and the role of specialization (8:29) Egerton Capital’s approach to researching new investment opportunities (12:58) Understanding market signals and opposing investment perspectives (15:46) John’s approach to portfolio building and decision-making in investing (20:00) Client importance, portfolio building, and decision-making in investing (23:37) Luck, being in the right place at the right time, and mentorship (28:07) Managing portfolio volatility and the frequency of financial crises (30:54) John’s positive outlook on reinsurance space and companies like Ryanair and Meta (35:31) The future of stock picking and asset management (41:19) What worries John and excites him about the future (43:09) John’s book recommendations (45:29) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Egerton Capital The Golden Mole and Other Living Treasure by Katherine Rundell Super-Infinite - The Transformations of John Donne by Katherine Rundell The Fall of Robespierre: 24 Hours in Revolutionary Paris by Colin Jones The Sword and the Shield by Christopher Andrew and Vasilli MitrokhinThanks for Listening!
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In the intricate dance of market movements and economic trends, it takes a discerning eye to discern patterns and make strategic decisions. Enter Nicolai Tangen, the astute CEO of Norges Bank Investment Management, who joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos on Value Investing with Legends. A connoisseur of art history and asset management, Nicolai offers a rare blend of expertise, drawing parallels between the seemingly disparate worlds of art and investment. His approach, marked by a blend of rigorous analysis and intuitive pattern recognition, reveals the underpinnings of a global economy shrouded in paranoia and driven by innovation. In this episode, Nicolai unfolds his journey from being an art student to leading one of the most prominent investment funds, highlighting how understanding historical context informs risk appetite. He brings to the forefront the role of AI in transforming investment strategies and the delicate balance of managing a substantial portfolio while maintaining a contrarian stance. Tune in to learn about the psychological aspects of risk assessment, the implications of AI on future investment strategies, the value of contrarian thinking in an ever-changing market, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Nicolai's journey from Russian military studies to financial expertise at Wharton (2:45) Nicolai's foundational career experiences with John Armitage at Egerton Capital (4:04) The refreshing and insightful sabbatical Nicolai took to study art history (6:42) AKO Capital's strategy: selecting high-quality stocks for robust growth and solid returns (9:17) Investing success through deep reading, contemplative analysis, and rare decisive action (10:34) The critical role of pattern recognition in navigating financial uncertainties (13:51) Post-mortem analysis as a vital component of investment strategy refinement (15:41) The importance of contrarian perspectives in investment strategy and team development (19:09) Delving into CEOs' insights on market trends and the underestimated influence of corporate culture (23:04) Adapting from selecting individual assets to managing broad asset classes with team collaboration (26:48) Proactive engagement in corporate governance through ESG-focused voting practices (30:33) The inescapable responsibility of managing a globally influential investment fund (33:08) Balancing the promising prospects of AI with the imperative of managing social risks (35:36) Defining fund success beyond returns: robust processes and a motivated, fulfilled team (38:07) What keeps Nicolai up at night and excited about the future (40:40) Nicolai’s book recommendations (43:24) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Norges Bank AKO Capital Egerton Capital Adam Grant - Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know Angela Duckworth - Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance Amy Edmonson - Teaming: How Organizations Learn, Innovate, and Compete in the Knowledge Economy Annie Duke - Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk AwayThanks for Listening!
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John Rogers isn't just a successful investor; he's an industry titan. As the founder of a reputable investment firm, he's made a name for himself with his contrarian value investing strategies. But he's not just a practitioner; he's an educator, avidly reading and contributing to seminal works in investment literature. John’s journey began with an early fascination for finance from his youthful days. A Princeton alumnus, he entered the turbulent waters of the stock market and turned a calamity—the infamous crash of 1987—into a career-defining opportunity. In today's episode, John joins us to discuss his formative experiences, the philosophical underpinning of his investment strategy, and the importance of thinking long-term. We also delve into his roles on various corporate boards, where he weighs in on 401k plans, corporate governance, the pivotal role of diversity in creating equal opportunities for minority businesses, and so much more!
Key Topics:
An overview of John’s professional background (2:15) John's journey from William Blair to founding Ariel Investments (07:42) The 1987 market crash as a turning point for Ariel's value investing approach (10:04) John's philosophy on patient, research-heavy, value-based investing (13:07) How longevity in markets solidified John's faith in efficiency (19:15) The mechanics of idea generation at Ariel Investments (23:30) Ariel's methodology for dissecting investment errors (29:53) Drawing teamwork and pressure-handling lessons from Coach Carril (35:20) How board experience informs his investing (37:47) John's focus on value investing and cautious approach to buybacks (42:20) Why John is optimistic about The Sphere in Las Vegas and Adelum (46:18) John's fulfillment from social engagement and its business impact (50:18) What keeps John up at night and excited about the future (55:48) John’s book recommendations (57:41) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Turn Every Page: The Adventures of Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb Jonathan Eig | King: A Life Morgan Housel | The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and HappinessThanks for Listening!
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Navigating the investment world is an enormous task, especially when looking at company numbers and the people running them. That's why we're thrilled to have Sheldon Stone on the show. Sheldon was the first in his family to go to college, attending the highly respected Bowdoin College. He was part of a remarkable class of 225 students, an experience that shaped his unique perspective on life and career. Hailing from New Jersey, Sheldon Stone has had a fascinating career journey. His time at Bowdoin wasn't just about hitting the books; it also laid the groundwork for his expertise in bonds and financial markets. In today's episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos sit down with Sheldon to dig into the nuts and bolts of investing. Sheldon shares his path from studying government in college to becoming a seasoned Chief Investment Officer. We dive deep into critical considerations like balancing liquidity and safeguarding investments, understanding the growing high-yield market, and why intangible assets like brands and patents are making financial waves. Sheldon, Michael, and Tano will explore Sheldon's unique educational background, the trade-offs in investment strategies, the rise of the high-yield market, the role intangibles play in today's financial world, and so much more!
Key Topics:
An overview of Sheldon’s professional background (3:13) 40-year partnership with Howard Marks: mutual dynamics and shared intellect (8:38) Early high-yield bond market inefficiencies and technological limitations (11:23) How equity holders' approach affects creditor relations and company ease-of-work (18:57) Company growth via flexibility over ratings and the role of private equity (20:38) Operating in 300-550 basis point spreads; equity investment opportunities (24:18) Importance of new issues for returns; market appetite and deal quality (26:25) Role of equity market signals in bond investments; sector focus (28:34) Credit scoring matrix: eight critical factors for buy/sell decisions (31:17) Asset recovery rates: tangible vs intangible; market sentiment effects (39:25) Impact of rising rates on leveraged loans; stability measures (46:55) Challenges with interpreting delinquency rates; sector diversification strategies (50:30) Characteristics of influential investment committees: camaraderie and vital CIO (52:04) Teaching at Columbia; credit analysis as a career path for students (54:12) What keeps Sheldon up at night and excited about the future (57:14) Sheldon’s book and theatre recommendations (59:00) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Charlie Ellis Book | Winning The Loser’s Game Howard Marks’ Books The Most Important Thing: Uncommon Sense for The Thoughtful Investor Mastering the Market Cycle: Getting the Odds on Your SideThanks for Listening!
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Navigating the complex world of wealth creation and financial history can be daunting. That's why our guest, Ray Dalio, places a strong emphasis on understanding the evolution of wealth, the current economic landscape, and the patterns that govern financial markets.
As an iconic investor and author, Ray offers a wealth of knowledge backed by years of experience in the finance industry. He has written the seminal book, "Principles for Navigating Big Debt Crisis," which serves as a crucial resource for anyone interested in understanding historical financial crises.
Ray is a legendary investor and the founder of Bridgewater Associates, one of the largest hedge funds in the world. He has extensive experience with debt crises, having navigated them multiple times in his career. In addition to his achievements in finance, he is the author of several highly acclaimed books that have garnered him a massive following both inside and outside of the financial community.
In this episode, Ray, Michael, and Tano discuss a range of topics from the evolution of wealth throughout history to the rise of populism in the modern world. They delve into the role of capital markets in wealth creation, the importance of understanding risk-return trade-offs, and much more. Ray also shares his unique perspectives on the challenges faced by countries like China and talks about the importance of deleveraging in today's economic climate.
Join us as we dive deep into these captivating topics with one of the most brilliant minds in the finance industry. Stay tuned for an enriching conversation that promises to offer valuable insights and much more!
Key Topics:
An overview of Ray’s background (2:56) Ray’s early foray into commodities (5:18) Shifting from micro to macro via commodities (6:59) Founding and pivoting Bridgewater (8:37) Alpha and beta separation in investing (11:29) Client portfolio customization, beating traditional methods (14:04) Decision systemization for diverse returns (16:13) Navigating 2008 with debt dynamics knowledge (21:42) Transition from assets to future earnings (26:00) Market links to economic boom, risks of future promises (31:48) Growth's double-edged sword: innovation vs. debt and conflict (33:15) US-China war likelihood in the next decade (39:34) China's trio of challenges: Debt, demographics, economic model (46:37) Advocacy for bipartisan societal reform (54:06) Ray’s book recommendations (58:28) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Bridgewater Associates Principles for Navigating Big Debt Crises | Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed or Fail | Ray Dalio Henry Kissinger’s Books The Age of AI: And Our Human Future Leadership: Six Studies in World Strategy Diplomacy Crisis: The Anatomy of Two Major Foreign Policy CrisesThanks for Listening!
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Today’s conversation is a special one. I’m delighted to share my fireside chat with Markel Corporation’s Tom Gayner from our 26th Annual CSIMA Conference. With decades of industry experience, Tom joined us to share insights into how Markel has differentiated itself from others in the insurance industry and the investment approach and philosophies that facilitate its continued growth.
Thomas “Tom” Gayner is the Co-Chief Executive Officer of Markel Corporation. He oversees investing activities for the company, as well as the Markel Ventures’ diverse industrial and service businesses. Tom joined Markel in 1990 to form Markel Gayner Asset Management which provided equity investment counsel for Markel Corporation and outside clients.
In this episode, Tom and I discuss how he went from analyzing Markel to joining the team after its IPO, Markel’s three-engine business model, how Markel Ventures originated, why it’s essential to create an environment that’s supportive of the way you'd like to operate, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Tom’s journey to joining Markel (1:28)
Markel’s three-engine architecture of insurance, investments, and Markel Ventures (5:00)
How AMF Bakery Equipment became Markel Ventures' first investment (9:18)
The four lenses for assessing equity investments (13:33)
Markel’s nuanced approach to portfolio management (20:44)
Learning to improve your investment decision-making process (24:14)
Why Tom calls financial statements a donut truth (28:01)
Translating the language of GAAP accounting to real economic meaning (29:48)
Assessing a company’s debt levels (33:31)
How interest rates massively impact human behavior (35:05)
And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Markel Corporation Annual Reports
Thanks for Listening!
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When evaluating a company, getting a clear picture of all the relevant factors can be challenging. That’s why today’s guest, Scott Hendrickson, heavily emphasizes management quality and companies where diligence can provide a high level of conviction.
As a Columbia Business School graduate and adjunct professor, Scott is both a practitioner and a teacher. He has been an integral part of the investing program for almost a decade.
Scott Hendrickson is a Partner and the Co-Founder of Permian Investment Partners, a $1.2 billion management-focused global long/short investment fund. Before co-founding Permian, Scott worked as an Investment Analyst at Brahman Capital. Prior to Brahman, Scott worked as an Associate at Industrial Growth Partners, a middle-market-focused private equity fund. Scott started his career as an Analyst in Merrill Lynch’s Investment Banking Program. Scott graduated from Emory University with a BBA in Finance in 2000 and Columbia Business School with an MBA in 2007. Scott serves on the Columbia Business School adjunct faculty, teaching Applied Value Investing since 2014.
In this episode, Scott, Tano, and I discuss Scott’s journey to a career in investing, why Permian has management as their core focus, the three main business quality metrics they employ, risk management for short interests, characteristics of transformational acquisitions, how teaching has expanded Scott’s perspective, and so much more!
Key Topics:
How Scott’s interest in investing evolved from his love for music (1:57)
Scott’s learnings from his time at Brahman Capital (5:35)
Criteria Permian seeks in longs and shorts (7:01)
Why Permian has management as a core focus (8:08)
How the quality of Permian’s LPs has become an advantage (10:53)
Permian’s approach to screening (12:49)
The three main business quality metrics employed (15:38)
Permian’s portfolio construction and power rank system (17:20)
Breaking down the four short frameworks (22:01)
Risk management for short interests (24:46)
Factoring in the macro view (26:31)
How Permian applies value-added research (30:00)
What it means to be “diligence-able” and why that matters (33:38)
Characteristics of transformational acquisitions (37:22)
Differentiating between structural and fixable costs (39:41)
What’s behind the long-term underperformance of European stock markets (42:35)
How teaching has expanded Scott’s perspective (44:54)
Scott’s recommendations for investors to improve the odds that they will be successful over time (46:26)
What keeps Scott up at night and excited about the future (47:23)
Scott’s book recommendations (50:16)
And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
William N. Thorndike’s Book | The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success
Jim Rogers’ Books
Investment Biker: Around the World with Jim Rogers
Adventure Capitalist: The Ultimate Road Trip
Hernando De Soto’s Book | The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else
Joel Greenblatt’s Book | You Can Be a Stock Market Genius: Uncover the Secret Hiding Places of Stock Market Profits
Seth A. Klarman’s Book | Margin of Safety: Risk-Averse Value Investing Strategies for the Thoughtful Investor
Thanks for Listening!
Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].
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With the constant evolution of the asset management industry, investors need to stay a step ahead to justify earning an active management fee. With over 40 years of experience in the industry, this is a lesson that today’s guest, Bill Nygren of Harris Associates, instills in the younger analysts he mentors.
Bill is a true legend of value investing and an investor you can turn to whenever the market is uncertain. He radiates fundamental ideas and has an expansive perspective on the comings and goings of the market and the economy at large.
Bill is the Chief Investment Officer for US equities at Harris Associates, which he joined in 1983, and a vice president of the Oakmark Funds. He has been a manager of the Oakmark Select Fund since 1996, Oakmark Fund since 2000, and the Oakmark Global Select Fund since 2006. Bill served as the firm’s director of research from 1990 to 1998. He has received many accolades during his investment career, including being named Morningstar’s Domestic Stock Manager of the Year for 2001, and he holds an M.S. in Finance from the University of Wisconsin’s Applied Security Analysis Program (1981) and a B.S. in accounting from the University of Minnesota (1980).
In this episode, Bill, Michael, and I discuss why Bill was drawn to value investing, why generalist analysts transition more easily to portfolio manager than specialists, his approach to idea generation and portfolio construction, pivoting in times of crisis and great distress, recession insights from over 40 years of experience, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome Bill to the show (1:09) Bill’s lifelong fascination with the line between gambling and investing (2:17) Why Bill was drawn to value investing (4:51) The importance of working at a firm that shares your investment philosophy (6:26) Why generalist analysts transition more easily to portfolio manager than industry specialists (9:36) Dealing with industry intricacies as a generalist analyst (14:05) Harris Associates’ approach to idea generation (15:55) What it’s like to be an analyst at Harris Associates (18:31) Why Harris uses multiple techniques to define value (24:25) Looking at management’s attitude towards capital redeployment (26:33) Harris’ maintenance process and error recognition methods (30:08) Bill’s thoughts on the news of Microsoft’s massive investment into OpenAI(32:53) Pivoting in times of crisis and great distress (36:38) Capital One as a case study of a stock that represents a good investment opportunity today (41:25) Recession insights from over 40 years of industry experience (44:02) Thinking about the effect of the current interest rate environment (48:35) Criteria for portfolio construction and position sizing (49:52) The evolving opportunity set (53:21) Identifying anomalies in GAAP accounting (55:44) The things that keep Bill up at night and excited about the future (59:31) Bill’s book recommendations (1:02:04) And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Harris Associates Oakmark Funds Michael Dell’s Book | Play Nice But Win: A CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader John Mack’s Book | Up Close and All In: Life Lessons from a Wall Street Warrior Joe Maddon & Tom Verducci’s Book | The Book of Joe: Trying Not to Suck at Baseball and LifeThanks for Listening!
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One of the most exciting things in our industry is finding young investment managers who are incredibly bright, hard-working, and well-trained in the investment process. Our guest today, Angela Aldrich, fits that bill perfectly.
Angela is the co-founder of Bayberry Capital Partners, a hedge fund with a half-billion dollars in assets based in New York. Before starting Bayberry Capital Partners, she worked at John Griffin’s Blue Ridge Capital, which shut down in 2017 after a glorious 21-year run during which it returned its investors an average return of 15.3% annually. Angela graduated from Duke University with a degree in economics and received an MBA from Stanford University Graduate School of Business. Before joining Blue Ridge, Angela worked at Goldman Sachs, BDT Capital Partners, and Scout Capital Management.
In this episode, Angelo, Tano, and I discuss her path to a career in investing, what it was like to be mentored by John Griffin, Angela’s key learnings from her transition from analyst to portfolio manager, Bayberry’s investment philosophy and approach to search, portfolio construction and sizing, how to find opportunities in volatility, case studies of companies which demonstrate Bayberry’s organizational principles in action, and so much more!
This podcast is not an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to purchase any securities, nor is it an offer of any advisory services. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and intended to provide general market commentary. The discussion of any individual investments discussed in this podcast is for informational purposes only, and any such investments are not representative of all of the investments held, or that may in the future be held, by any fund, account or investment vehicle managed by Bayberry Capital Partners LP. Nothing in this podcast, including any discussion of past results, is a guarantee of similar or future outcomes.
Key Topics:
Welcome Angela to the show (2:12) How Angela found her way to a career in investing (3:09) The transformational experience of working with John Griffin, founder of Blue Ridge Capital Management (5:53) Navigating the transition from analyst to portfolio manager (9:13) Portfolio construction as a form of risk management (11:20) Finding opportunities in periods of crisis and high volatility (15:00) The investment philosophy and organizational principles that drive results at Bayberry Capital (18:25) Bayberry’s approach to recognizing surprisingly high business quality (22:04) Signposts of suitable candidates for the short side (25:39) Unlocking value from an investment thesis (27:22) How to avoid thesis creep (30:26) The central importance of identifying the right key investment factors (33:23) Portfolio sizing principles at Bayberry (36:21) Why WillScot Mobile Mini Holdings became Bayberry’s largest long (39:36) How Bayberry goes about valuing businesses (48:27) Why Bayberry became interested in Burford Capital (50:38) What keeps Angela worried and excited about markets in the future (1:01:14) Angela’s book recommendations (1:02:32) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Carol S. Dweck’s Book | Mindset: The New Psychology of Success Sudhir Venkatesh’s Book | Gang Leader for a Day: A Rogue Sociologist Takes to the StreetsThanks for Listening!
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Over the past several decades, asset management has transformed from a small industry with a few experts competing against a majority of amateurs in the market to a market saturated with well-equipped and highly resourced experts competing against each other.
When I think about my pantheon of all-time great investment thinkers and writers, our guest today stands out as one of the industry's legends. Charley Ellis has played the most significant role in how I think about the investment industry, and I can’t think of anyone better to talk about the industry's evolution.
Dr. Charles D. Ellis is the founder and former managing partner of Greenwich Associates, an international consultancy where he advised large institutional investors, foundations, and government organizations in more than 130 financial markets across the globe. Through that lens, he has been a keen observer of what works in organizations and markets for the last half-century. For nine years, Charley was chair of the Investment Committee at Yale, his alma mater, where he worked closely with its legendary Chief Investment Officer, David Swensen. He also served as a director of the Vanguard Group from 2001 to 2009. Charlie is a Harvard Business School graduate and has taught advanced investing courses at both Yale and Harvard. The CFA Institute recognized him as one of the twelve leading contributors to the investment profession, and along the way, Charlie has published nineteen books.
In this episode, Tano, Charley, and I discuss what inspired him to found Greenwich Associates, what goes into identifying the right questions to ask, how the industry has shifted from a winner’s game to a loser’s game, the massive changes in the asset management industry since the founding of Greenwich Associates, lessons from the Yale endowment model, Charley’s book recommendations, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome Charley to the show (1:13) How Charley’s early experience at Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette inspired the concept for Greenwich Associates (3:07) Structuring research and gathering the right kinds of questions (7:51) How Charley developed a passion for sharing insights with the public at large (10:00) The dual roles of academia and the industry itself in the evolution of the asset management industry (11:46) Simon Ramo and The Loser’s Game (13:33) Massive changes in the asset management industry since Charley founded Greenwich Associates (19:07) Why it was much easier for active managers to beat the market in the early days of the industry (25:03) Understanding the relentless pace of competition (29:35) The importance of actively determining the right investment strategy for you (32:44) Charley’s perspective on the legacy of Vanguard’s Jack Bogle (37:26) Why Charley cites John Neff as the best active manager of his time (43:27) David Swenson’s capacity for innovative thinking (46:51) Lessons from the Yale endowment model (51:02) Highlights from Charley’s book, Capital (58:38) Essential elements of creating and perpetuating a great culture (1:00:06) Why the willingness to address problems head-on is crucial in sustaining excellence (1:02:30) Charlie’s excitement about our education system (1:06:19) Which overlooked issue does Charlie wish garnered more attention? (1:07:07) Charley’s book recommendations (1:12:09) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Charley Ellis’ Books Figuring It Out: Sixty Years of Answering Investors' Most Important Questions Inside Vanguard: Leadership Secrets From the Company That Continues to Rewrite the Rules of the Investing Business Winning the Loser's Game: Timeless Strategies for Successful Investing Capital: The Story of Long-Term Investment Excellence What It Takes: Seven Secrets of Success from the World's Greatest Professional Firms Charley Ellis’ Articles The Loser’s Game In Defense of Active Investing Burton G. Malkiel’s Book | A Random Walk Down Wall Street: The Best Investment Guide That Money Can Buy Neil deGrasse Tyson’s Book | Astrophysics for People in a HurryThanks for Listening!
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Success comes from value creation.
For a strategic initiative to create value, it must increase willingness to pay or decrease willingness to sell. Otherwise, the resources expended will not flow into profitability.
Today’s discussion is one I was looking forward to because we’re focusing on value-based strategy frameworks and using strategic analysis to understand whether a company has a competitive advantage. Joining us to explore this topic is someone who has taken a fundamentally sound framework and brought it to life with excellent insights and vivid examples, Felix Oberholzer-Gee.
Felix Oberholzer-Gee is the Andreas Andresen Professor of Business Administration in the Strategy Unit at Harvard Business School. A member of the faculty since 2003, Felix has won numerous awards for excellence in teaching, including the Harvard Business School Class of 2006 Faculty Teaching Award for best teacher in the core curriculum and the 2002 Helen Kardon Moss Anvil Award for best teacher in the Wharton MBA program. He teaches competitive strategy in executive education programs such as the Program for Leadership Development, the Senior Executive Program for China, and a program for media executives titled Effective Strategies for Media Companies. His course, Strategies Beyond the Market, is a popular elective class for second-year MBA students. Felix is the author of numerous books, and his latest book, Better, Simpler Strategy, will be a major subject of today’s conversation.
In this episode, Felix, Tano, and I discuss how Felix defines his strategy framework, why willingness to pay and willingness to sell should be at the core of every strategy conversation, the value of ROIC as a metric of success, how Felix thinks about driving competitive advantages, value capture versus value creation, how to think about complements and substitutes, the potential for innovation and productivity growth, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome Felix to the show (2:03) Why a Ph.D. for career advancement unexpectedly led to Felix’s transition into academia (2:24) How case writing guides Felix’s interests and research focus (4:20) Defining a value-based strategy framework (6:25) Why should every conversation start with “Are we increasing willingness to pay or are we decreasing willingness to sell?” (10:08) Why Felix chose return on invested capital (ROIC) as a primary metric (12:40) Looking at ROIC distribution over the long term (14:22) Focusing on creating a competitive advantage inside of your industry segment (18:25) The significant issues strategists have with P&L statements (21:31) Value capture versus value creation (24:56) Determining willingness to pay (28:21) Harnessing network effects to increase willingness to pay (29:19) When to be worried about new entrants (33:18) Types of relationships between complementors (36:59) Understanding complements and value creation (40:26) Identifying complements and subtitutes (43:27) The effect of different management practices on productivity and willingness to sell (50:53) Tying willingness to pay and willingness to sell to strategy maps (56:01) Case study: Best Buy (58:09) The potential for innovation and productivity growth (1:02:09) Why Felix is obsessed with the differences between how we think about products and services versus jobs (1:04:50) Felix’s book recommendations (1:08:18) And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Felix Oberholzer-Gee’s Book | Better, Simpler Strategy: A Value-Based Guide to Exceptional Performance Youngme Moon’s Book | Different: Escaping the Competitive Herd Frances Frei & Anne Morriss’ Book | Uncommon Service: How to Win by Putting Customers at the Core of Your Business
Thanks for Listening!
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To be a good value investor, you must be a good credit analyst.
Over the years, I learned so much from the many investors I’ve met through Heilbrunn. I’ve shamelessly incorporated these ideas and insights into my lecture notes and the curriculum. Today’s guest is one such person.
Mitch Julis has had a disproportionately large impact on both my thinking and the program design. Now he joins me for a conversation about the rich interactions between the nature of the firm’s business operation and the liability side of the balance sheet.
Mitchell R. Julis is the Co-Founder, Co-Chairman, and Co-Chief Executive Officer of Canyon Partners, LLC. Mitch is a graduate of the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton University, Harvard Law School, and Harvard Business School. He received an honorary doctorate from Yeshiva University of New York in 2011. Before forming Canyon, Mitch directed a group of professionals responsible for a distressed and special situation securities portfolio at Drexel Burnham Lambert. He was a bankruptcy and creditors’ rights attorney at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz in New York.
In this episode, Mitch and I discuss his journey from Bronx to Beverly Hills, the juxtaposition of accounting and accountability, why increasing spending power can undermine our federal system of competition, the four P’s of understanding governance, Mitch’s accidental entry into restructuring and bankruptcy law, arbitrage opportunities that arise in distressed situations, his approach to risk assessment, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome Mitch to the show (0:39) Mitch’s rich childhood in the Bronx (3:14) The journey to Princeton and Mitch’s goal to go to the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs (9:35) The juxtaposition of accounting and accountability (15:47) Why increasing spending power can undermine our federal system of competition (18:09) How the four P’s of understanding governance play out in real-world situations (23:58) Mitch’s accidental entry into restructuring and bankruptcy law (29:31) Challenging the Countryman definition of executory contract at Harvard Law (33:12) Mitch’s unexpected career moves (35:39) How Mitch’s time at Drexel shifted his thinking about financial markets (38:30) Exploring arbitrage opportunities that arise in distressed situations (42:05) Using accounting to its maximum potential when modeling the evolution of the balance sheet (49:09) Insights from Canyon’s statement of changes in net financial obligations (50:09) Chapter 11 escape holes and loopholes created by the private equity world (54:49) Mitch’s approach to risk assessment (57:08) How the next financial crisis will play out (1:03:50) What keeps Mitch up at night with worry? (1:11:08) Mitch’s movie recommendations (1:15:14) Embracing a continuous learning mindset with humility (1:18:29) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Canyon Partners Richard E. Neustadt’s Book | Presidential Power and the Modern Presidents: The Politics of Leadership from Roosevelt to Reagan Philip Hamburger’s Book | Purchasing Submission: Conditions, Power, and Freedom Freddie Gershon’s Book | Sweetie Baby Cookie Honey: A Novel Sujeet Indap & Max Frumes’Book | The Caesars Palace Coup: How a Billionaire Brawl Over the Famous Casino Exposed the Corruption of the Private Equity Industry The Offer on Paramount Plus Rabbi Benjamin Blech’s Article | Bernie & The Godfather Spirited on Apple TVThanks for Listening!
Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].
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“Right next to the really cheap junk, there are some really cheap gems."
Welcome to a new season of the Value Investing with Legends podcast!
We're delighted to welcome our first guests for the season, Andrew Wellington and Dan Kaskawits from Lyrical Asset Management. In 2008, Andrew started the firm with three core pillars of investing: value, quality, and analyzability. That approach leads them to focus on building concentrated portfolios that generate great returns through the core principles of value investing with a long-term time horizon.
Andrew Wellington is the Chief Investment Officer of Lyrical and has more than two decades of experience in the asset management industry. After spending five years in management consulting, in 1996, Andrew joined Pzena Investment Management as a founding member and its first research analyst. Five years later, after honing his skills as an equity analyst and value investor, Andrew joined Neuberger Berman in 2001, where he went on to run their institutional mid-cap value product. After Neuberger, Andrew spent two years in activist investing at New Mountain Capital. Andrew graduated summa cum laude and as the top graduating senior from the University of Pennsylvania’s Management & Technology Program in 1990, earning a Bachelor of Science in Economics from the Wharton School and a Bachelor of Science in Engineering from the School of Engineering.
Dan Kaskawits joined Lyrical in January 2018 as a Senior Research Analyst. Dan has over 15 years of experience investing in public equities. Before Lyrical, he served as an Analyst at Elm Ridge Capital from January 2011 to December 2017 and as an Associate at Citi Investment Research from October 2003 to June 2009. Dan graduated from Tulane University and received an MBA from Columbia Business School. Dan has earned the right to use the Chartered Financial Analyst designation.
In this episode, Andrew, Dan, and I discuss how they got started in the asset management industry, lessons they learned from value investing legends, why Andrew founded Lyrical Asset Management, what makes a successful international value strategy, Lyrical’s approach to search, how they operationalize their core pillars, why it’s advantageous to be a generalist, their top book recommendations, and so much more!
Lyrical Asset Management LP’s participation in this interview does not convey any offering or the solicitation of any offer to invest in the strategies discussed. Moreover, the information contained in this interview is not provided by Lyrical in a fiduciary capacity and does not constitute investment advice. Positions held by Lyrical portfolios are subject to change without notice; Lyrical bears no responsibility to update any opinions or information expressed herein. A list of all Lyrical recommendations is available upon request. Please see lyricalam.com/notes for a discussion of certain material risks of an investment in Lyrical’s strategies.
Key Topics:
Welcome Andrew and Dan to the show (00:56) How Andrew got into asset management from management consulting (3:09) Dan’s journey to Columbia Business School and his asset management career (5:29) Invaluable lessons from Joel Greenblatt and Rich Pzena in being an equity analyst and a value investor (8:25) Learning to be a value investor at Elm Ridge (11:05) The restrictions that come from career concerns and what makes Lyrical Asset Management different (16:04) Crucial elements of a successful international value strategy (19:43) Lyrical’s approach to search and the use of screens (23:33) Defining quality and analyzability and how Lyrical operationalizes them (29:20) Computing ROIC with significant intangibles (36:12) Ashtead Technology is a quintessential example of Lyrical’s investment philosophy (42:43) Often overlooked benefits of counter-cyclical cashflow (46:59) The generalist’s advantage (50:04) Dimensions of popularity (52:52) Why Lyrical offers clients the opportunity to invest in value ETFs (54:55) How the FAANG stocks influenced the outsized return of growth vs. value stocks in the past 10 to 15 years (59:14) Lyrical’s value-focused impact strategy (1:02:27) Andrew’s philosophy: “Don’t predict; prepare.” (1:06:19) Dan and Andrew’s book recommendations (1:08:44) And much more!Mentioned in this Episode:
Lyrical Asset Management Value Investing with Legends Podcast | Allison Fisch - Unlocking Value in Emerging Markets Annie Duke’s Book | Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away Benjamin Graham’s Book | The Intelligent Investor Rev Ed.: The Definitive Book on Value Investing Bruce C. Greenwald’s Book | Competition Demystified: A Radically Simplified Approach to Business Strategy James Montier’s Book | Value Investing: Tools and Techniques for Intelligent Investment Michael Mauboussin’s Books Annie Duke’s Book | Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts Walter Isaacson’s Book | The Code Breaker: Jennifer Doudna, Gene Editing, and the Future of the Human Race Walter Isaacson’s Book | Steve Jobs Ryan Holiday’s Book | Stillness Is the KeyThanks for Listening!
Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].
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