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Today is a special episode because, after five years, this podcast is ending. You’ll hear why in this episode. Debbie and her husband, Sam Harrington, talk about why it’s time for a finale, about getting old, about legacy (and how it’s different for the two of them, right now), about their life during the past decade, how it's changing even now (they're both 72), and about what lies ahead, at least creatively. Frankly, Debbie doesn't sound very happy in this episode, but that’s because this has been a hard decision. Debbie thinks it's the right one; Sam needs convincing.
But there is some good news!
Debbie is continuing to explore the topic of [b]old age on Substack where she writes essays, host Q&A’s, and has created a lively community of [b]old women writers, in their 60s, 70s, and 80s. And some younger women too. She invites you to join her on Substack! It's more interactive than the podcast, you'll get to know other subscribers in the Comments, and you can offer your own take on the topic of what it's really like to get old and why it requires [b]oldness.
https://debbieweil.substack.com
Endings are always bittersweet but you've got access to 120 past episodes of [B]old Age on Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Continue the conversation about [B]old Age, and what getting old is really like, on Debbie's [B]OLD AGE Substack.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
S3E21: Nicholas Christakis on How the Pandemic Will Affect Your Life Until 2024S4E13: Nicholas Christakis With a COVID Update and the Connection Between Pandemics, War, and Climate ChangeS3E24: Steven Petrow on the Stupid Things He Won’t Do When He Gets OldS6E8: Steven Petrow on His Sister Julie, the Importance of Choice, and Medical Aid in DyingS5E7: Andrew Steele on Research at the Cellular Level That Could Slow AgingS4E17: Dr. Bree Johnston on Psychedelic Therapy to Ease Fear of DeathAt Peace: Choosing a Good Death After a Long Life by Samuel Harrington MD (Grand Central Life & Style; 2018)LA PETITE PERIGOURDINE, Paris (restaurant Debbie & Sam mention, where Julie-Roxane used to work)Debbie’s Substack editor: Erin ShetronFINALLY, a shoutout to Julie-Roxane, Debbie’s podcast producer (currently off social media & website-less!). Without JR, there would be no podcast.More [B]OLD AGE:
debbieweil.com/podcast120 episodes of the [B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE continues on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog, started in 2013: Gap Year After SixtyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie talks with Sarah Fay, a 52-year-old award-winning author, writing teacher, and mental health keynote speaker whose work has been featured on NPR, Oprah Daily, Forbes, The Los Angeles Times, and more. Her journalistic memoir Pathological: The True Story of Six Misdiagnoses (HarperCollins, 2022) was an Apple Best Books pick and was hailed in The New York Times as a “fiery manifesto of a memoir.” Her sequel, Cured: The Memoir, tells the story of Sarah’s full recovery from serious mental illness and how recovery is possible for everyone.
She writes for many publications, including The New York Times, The Atlantic, Time, and The Paris Review, where she was an advisory editor. Her essays have been chosen as a Notable Mention in Best American Essays and nominated for Pushcart Prizes. As a teacher, she’s on the faculty at Northwestern University and runs Writers at Work, a weekly publication with workshops to help creative writers produce their best work on Substack and get paid (very) well to do it. Her master plan is to make Substack the literary center of the universe.
They talk about the parallels between Sarah’s journey of recovery from misdiagnosis to curing her own serious mental illness and her work teaching Substack writers to think big (and get paid for it). Debbie wanted to know if Sarah’s journey to mental health was connected to her success as a writer AND to her ability and desire to help other writers. The answer is yes. They touch on emotional literacy, the prerequisites for healing from mental illness, how to deal with anxieties as writers, what Substack is and who it is for, and what Sarah loves most about helping other writers.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes for every episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:Sarah Fay’s websiteSubstack, the publishing platform dubbed "a new economic engine for culture"Substack Writers at Work, Sarah’s weekly newsletter and community with workshops, a featured expert guide to SubstackSarah’s Less and Less of More and More, a Substack featured publicationPathological: The True Story of Six Misdiagnoses by Sarah Fay (HarperOne, 2022)Cured: The Memoir by Sarah Fay, serialized on Substack in 2023Best Of: Diagnosing Mental Health and 'A Molecule Away from Madness' (NPR: April 10, 2022)Without a biological basis, how reliably can we diagnose and treat mental illness? (NPR: April 2, 2022)Thomas Insel, MD, former director of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) and author of Healing: Our Path from Mental Illness to Mental Health (Penguin Press, 2022) where he mentions the 3 Ps Sarah talks about on this episode.
Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribeCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
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Today Debbie talks to Patty Ivey about life changes and opportunities opening up for her after being diagnosed with and treated for breast cancer last year. Inspiring doesn’t really cover it as a way to describe Patty. Neither does [b]old, as in [B]OLD AGE. Patty and Debbie go back at least 15 years, when Debbie was a regular at Patty's Down Dog yoga studio in DC. It was always special when Patty, the owner, taught a class. Her classes were different. They offered all the benefits that practicing yoga offers beyond what happens on the mat; with Patty teaching, the class was mind-expanding. She made yoga open up new possibilities for how to live.
So when Debbie saw Patty posting beautiful, bald photos of herself on her LinkedIn page, she immediately got in touch to find out how she was doing. As Patty explains it, she is using life principles from yoga, which include leaving room for what we don’t know and focusing on something bigger than ourselves, as she looks ahead. She acknowledges an identity shift that has come with cancer. Some older version of herself is no longer there, but she's okay with that. Like most women, Debbie is terrified of getting breast cancer, but with Patty as a guide (she’s also a mentor and a life coach as well as being a serial entrepreneur), it seems there could be an upside. We hope you are as inspired by this conversation as Debbie was.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes for every podcast episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter on Substack.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Patty’s website: https://thepattyivey.com/Patty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattyiveyHer studio in DC: https://www.downdogyoga.com/Her yoga teacher Baron Baptiste: https://www.baptisteyoga.com/Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Debbie speaks with Lyn Slater, a writer and activist and former social media influencer. She spent her mid-60s becoming an icon of fashion, racking up nearly 800,000 Instagram followers, representing huge brands like Ilia Beauty, Kate Spade, Moncler, and Visa (among many others), speaking on fashion panels, and in general living a very public life. Her memoir, “How to Be Old: Lessons in Living Boldly From the Accidental Icon" is just out.
But… and there’s a big BUT, Lyn has given up that identity and is now, at 70, a writer and hands-on grandmother. She has renounced social media and no longer offers fashion or style tips. In this episode she tells Debbie that she was unhappy at the peak of her influencer career, what she learned from her mother’s decline and death, and how we have to tell the truth about old age to young women.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes for every episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
At 70, This Instagram Influencer Shows That It’s Never Too Late by Alix Strauss (The New York Times, Feb. 21, 2024)How to Be Old: Lessons in Living Boldly From the Accidental Icon by Lyn Slater (Plume, March 12, 2024)I’m 70 years old — why shouldn’t my clothes convey my sexuality, and sense of style? by Lyn Slater (excerpt from her new book; CNN, March 12, 2024)AccidentalIcon.comLyn’s Substack newsletterLondon Writers' SalonConnect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected]: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or Spotify*Credits:**Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
In the Intro to this episode, you'll hear Steven Petrow talking about his sister Julie Petrow’s death last June 2023. After years of battling ovarian cancer, Julie, Steven’s five-years-younger little sister, chose to die in her New Jersey home by drinking a lethal cocktail. She was surrounded by her family. And it was legal. She used a procedure called MAID or medical aid in dying, which is now legal in 10 states in the U.S. plus the district of Columbia.
But before she died, she made Steven, who is a bestselling author and a contributing columnist for The Washington Post, promise to write about how she chose to die, in order to raise awareness around MAID, a practice that many people don’t know about, or don’t understand, even though it was first legalized in Oregon, almost 30 years ago.
So Steven did, publishing an essay about Julie and her decision in The New York Times a few months ago. It got a huge reception with over 600 comments on the NYT’s site.
In this episode, Steven explains more:
What the term medical aid in dying means and what it is exactly (it used to be called physician assisted suicide, but a physician is NOT present)Why he thinks only 9,000 people have availed themselves of the procedure since it first became legalizedWhy it’s mostly used by educated whites (for one thing, the cocktail of lethal drugs cost $700 to $900 and is NOT reimbursable)
This is simply a fascinating episode and Steven is a lovely guest, eloquent, respectful, and informed. It was such a pleasure to have him back on the show. As always, see below for links to his articles and books, including the NYT article, and a link to the first time he was on the show almost three years ago.//////////
Don't miss Debbie's Behind The Scenes essay on Substack accompanying every episode of the podcast.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Steven Petrow’s websiteI Promised My Sister I Would Write About How She Chose to Die by Steven Petrow (New York Times, Dec. 28, 2024)A cancer patient had decided how to die. Here's what I learned from her. by Steven Petrow (Washington Post, Feb. 18, 2024)NPR podcast with Steven Petrow about MAID (Feb. 22, 2024)He didn't want his sister to die. But her suffering helped him understand her choice (NPR, Feb. 25, 2024)How Aid in Dying Became Medical, Not Moral by Rachel E. Gross (New York Times, Oct. 24, 2023)At Peace: Choosing a Good Death After a Long Life by Samuel Harrington MD (Grand Central Life & Style; February 2018)States Where Medical Aid in Dying is Authorized[B]OLD AGE Podcast S3E24 - Steven Petrow on the Stupid Things He Won’t Do When He Gets OldStupid Things I Won't Do When I Get Old: A Highly Judgmental, Unapologetically Honest Accounting of All the Things Our Elders Are Doing Wrong by Steven Petrow (Citadel; June 29, 2021)
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweil
Connect with Debbie:Our Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie talks with Kirsten Powers, a New York Times bestselling author, a liberal columnist and, most recently, an on-air political analyst with CNN. In 2023, after almost two decades, she left what she calls the “media circus” to pursue a different life as a writer and a life coach. Kirsten, who is 56, is [b]old by any definition.
Prior to CNN she was at Fox (as a liberal voice) and before that she was a columnist for USA Today, The Daily Beast, American Prospect Online, and the New York Post. Her recent bestselling book is Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.
Currently Kirsten writes a very popular newsletter on Substack, called, appropriately, "Changing the Channel." It's about living authentically, unlearning societal conditioning, and how to actually change your life. She published an essay recently about her plan to move to Italy with her husband because, as she put it, the U.S. is unlivable, with school shootings, the frenetic pace of life and because it’s too expensive. Somehow we are societally conditioned to accept this, as if it’s normal. But it’s not, Kirsten emphasizes. The post went viral, hitting a nerve with her many readers. Now she’s working on a book proposal.
Since leaving her on-air job, Kirsten has been deliberately pursuing what she calls a "more easeful life" that is less striving and less accomplishment-oriented. It includes writing on Substack, which she loves. In this episode she also talks about her transition from evangelical christian to atheist.
Kirsten is fast thinking and provocative and Debbie loved this conversation with her.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes for every episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Kirsten Powers - Wikipediakirstenpowers.comChanging the Channel : Kirsten’s Substack newsletterThe way we live in the United States is not normal: Kirsten’s viral Substack post about moving to Italy (Nov. 29, 2023)Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts by Kirsten Powers (Convergent Books; Nov. 2021)Kirsten Powers: A liberal working for Fox News (Washington Post, June 17, 2015)What are the Nine Enneagram Types?CP Enneagram where Kirsten is studying for an Enneagram certificate.Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® (MBTI®)Jonathan Merritt on Personal Transformation and the Complicated Intersection of Faith and Culture: Season 5, Episode 19 of the podcast.Behind the Scenes with Jonathan Merritt by Debbie Weil (Substack, July 7, 2023)My Complicated Feelings About Tim Keller by Kirsten Powers (Substack, May 24, 2023)MEA: the midlife wisdom school in Baja, MX and Sante Fe, NM where Debbie and Kirsten met.Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackGap Year After Sixty Debbie Weil and husband Sam Harrington’s joint blogOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie talks to Dale Russakoff, a veteran reporter for The Washington Post, a bestselling author, and a classmate from her Harvard/Radcliffe class of 1974.
They talk about her surprising experience at Harvard as a woman from the South, her distinguished career as a journalist, and the importance of family.
Debbie knew that Dale had been a reporter for The Washington Post for almost 30 years. And that she is the author of a best-selling book, THE PRIZE. But in this episode she told Debbie something she'd never heard before: what it was like to be a Southern girl at Harvard. Dale, who had a Southern accent then, said she was reluctant to open her mouth at first.
She'd grown up in Birmingham, AL and when she arrived in Cambridge she learned that the Radcliffe admissions committee hadn’t admitted a woman from the South in many years, unless she had gone to a Northern boarding school. The committee thought girls who grew up and went to school in the South wouldn't have “the values" Radcliffe wanted; i.e. they would be racist.
She and Debbie talk about what it was like to be a female student in the man's world of Harvard, how "ambition" fit into her college years and, later, how it related to Dale's career in journalism. They talk about the importance of family, including grandchildren. And how she feels AT. CAPACITY. (i.e. too busy) in semi-retirement, at age 71.
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Don't miss Debbie's Substack essay on the topic of being too busy or AT. CAPACITY.
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Mentioned in this episode or useful:
The Prize: Who's in Charge of America's Schools? By Dale Russakoff (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt; 2015)New York Times review of THE PRIZE (Aug. 18, 2015)Dale’s reporting about the South when she was a college student: The Other Lost Cause (The Harvard Crimson, May 13, 1974)How a girl in the old South grew up to be a civil rights historian and a Harvard president: a review of a new memoir by Drew Faust, President of Harvard from 2007 - 2018 (LA Times, Aug. 17, 2023)Radcliffe Women Share Their Stories (Harvard Magazine, 2021)Nathan Pusey President of Harvard from 1953 to 1971:Matina Horner President of Radcliffe College in the 1970sTHE FIRST TWO EPISODES IN THIS TRILOGY:
Conversations with two more of Debbie's classmates from the Harvard/Radcliffe class of 1974:
A'lelia Bundles on Legacy, Leadership and Growing [B]older at 70Winifred White Neisser on Ambition, Embracing 70, and What Comes NextConnect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
* This is the last episode in 2023. Back on Jan. 26, 2024! *
Debbie talks to Mary Pipher, a psychologist and bestselling author of 11 books including the ground-breaking Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls. She was the first psychologist to recognize and articulate why life was difficult for adolescent girls and why so many of them felt bad about themselves.More recently, she has written Women Rowing North: Navigating Life’s Currents and Flourishing As We Age, about women navigating the transition from middle age to old age (the topic of this podcast!).
In 2022, she published a memoir, A Life in Light: Meditations on Impermanence. In her new book, just out in paperback, Mary, now 76, talks about her difficult childhood and her relationship with her parents, the importance of family and community, living in a small town in Nebraska, and what the particular challenges of getting old are. She also talks about forgiveness, about adopting Buddhism and her definition of happiness. Per the title, she’s obsessed with light, through trees, on walks, at certain times of day, in certain rooms, and in memories — and how the light makes her feel happy and complete.
She says her knowledge about happiness comes from being someone who has struggled with sadness and anxiety much of her life, something that resonates strongly with Debbie.
This is a great episode. Mary articulates so well what it’s really like to get old and yet still feel so alive.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes essay on Substack accompanying this episode
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MaryPipher.comA Life in Light: Meditations on Impermanence by Mary Pipher (Bloomsbury Publishing paperback edition, Dec. 12, 2023)Reviving Ophelia 25th Anniversary Edition: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls by Mary Pipher PhD & Sara Gilliam (Riverhead Books 2019)Women Rowing North: Navigating Life's Currents and Flourishing As We Age by Mary Pipher (Bloomsbury Publishing paperback 2020)Finding Light in Winter by Mary Pipher (Guest Essay for The New York Times, Dec. 11, 2023)This is 74: Mary Pipher Responds to The Oldster Magazine QuestionnaireJane Jarvis, Player of Jazz and Mets Music, Dies at 94 (New York Times, Jan. 30, 2010)Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.comEmail: [email protected][B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie speaks to Winifred White Neisser, a classmate from the Harvard/Radcliffe Class of 1974. Winifred looks back on her career as a television executive in the all-male, all-white Hollywood entertainment industry and talks about what comes next. Both Debbie and Winifred are looking forward to celebrating their 50th Harvard reunion next year.
Wini, as her friends call her, is very modest. She doesn’t think of herself as a [b]old woman. So it took Debbie a while to get her to talk about her success as an entertainment executive. She capped her 34-year career as Senior VP of Sony Pictures for Television Movies and Miniseries. Her award-winning projects include the movie A Raisin in the Sun for ABC and Call me Claus, a Christmas movie which starred Whoopi Goldberg.
It’s her Midwestern upbringing, Wini told Debbie. They don’t brag or show off in Milwaukee, WI where she grew up. She was never propelled by ambition, she told Debbie. Nor did she plan out next steps as she rose to her position as a top exec. But it wouldn’t be accurate to say that her career “just happened.”
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes essay on Substack accompanying this episode.
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This interview is a story of quiet capability and determination - and underneath, a fierce drive. Debbie was fascinated by her classmate’s story because, with one exception, it’s so different from hers. Debbie married at the absurdly young age of 21 (she was a junior at Harvard). She had her first baby at 25 and two more by age 31. Wini married much later and had her two children in her mid 30s, all the while climbing the TV executive ladder, first at NBC and later at Sony.
In contrast, Debbie’s early motherhood derailed her career in journalism. She was married to a busy young doctor so someone had to hold down the fort at home. She stepped willingly into that role, but felt a good deal of frustration trying to work part-time as a freelance journalist. Underneath, she had the same fierce drive that Wini had. She just couldn’t express it, career-wise, until some years later.
As the conversation continued, Debbie realized that fierce drive and determination sum up the common thread she shares with her female classmates from the Harvard/Radcliffe Class of 1974. There were only 300 women (Cliffies, as they were called) in a class of 1,500 students. So they were vastly outnumbered. They were polite about it, but they were all determined to be successful in their chosen fields — both in Harvard’s male-dominated classrooms and later in the world of work.
So much has changed for women in the past 50 years so this conversation with Wini is the first of several Debbie is planning with these [b]old women, her 1974 Radcliffe classmates.Note: it’s a bit confusing to explain but Radcliffe was the name of the women’s college that was part of Harvard in the 1970s and earlier, so technically the women attended Harvard/Radcliffe. Radcliffe has now been subsumed by Harvard. And the ratio of women to men in a Harvard class is now 50-50. So much has changed in 50 years.
Hope you enjoy this compelling conversation with a 70-year-old (b)old woman.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Lesley UniversityInterview with Winifred White Neisser in The Historymakers (Nov. 17, 2013)From Season 4, an interview with another accomplished woman of the Harvard/Radcliffe Class of 1974: A’lelia Bundles on Legacy, Leadership, and Growing Bolder at 70Angel City Chorale (Winifred is now the Executive Director)Harvard Advanced Leadership InitiativeConnect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Updated with a new introduction, this is a replay of an atmospheric episode from 2019 when Debbie and Sam studied French in Provence in an immersion program. They planned to go back in 2020 but of course the pandemic intervened. Now, they’ve just completed another week of immersion in Avignon with their favorite French teacher, Julie Gaudin.
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Don't miss the Substack essay accompanying this episode: Behind The Scenes With "French Debbie"
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In the episode you'll hear accordion music and a few snippets recorded in a cafe where Debbie speaks French. Both she and Sam have a special relationship with France from their adolescent years. And they both have a longstanding bucket list item: to live in France for an extended period in order to practice and improve their French. They both agree you can’t become a true ex-pat in only two weeks but it’s enough time to adopt a daily routine and to make a friend or two at the local boulangerie and at a favorite bar serving artisanal beer.
Despite their many trips to Paris and other parts of France, they continue to find the French language and French culture both mysterious and alluring.
Mentioned in this episode and/or useful links for visiting Avignon and Provence
Séjour linguistique means staying with a teacher (or prof) in their home for language immersion.Julie Gaudin's immersion program in AvignonA list of other French immersion programs via FrenchToday.com Note: in the episode Debbie mistakenly refers to the site as FranceToday.Pithiviers is a town south of France where Sam lived on a farm when he was 18. It was also the site of the infamous Pithiviers internment camp during the Second World War.Collège Cévenol in Le Chambon-sur-Lignon is where Debbie went to school for a year when she was 14.Alliance Française in ParisL’Atelier de Belinda (wonderful tiny restaurant in Avignon)Les Halles, the famed covered market in Avignon filled with magnificent displays of fish, meat, vegetables, fruit, cheese, olives, bread, lavendar honey, wine and more. Sam discovered “les bulots”: whelks or large snails best eaten alongside raw oysters and with a glass of white wine.Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilHow to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie talks with Rona Maynard, an author, writer, and former VIP, as she puts it. When she left Canada's leading magazine for women as editor-in-chief, she began looking for her next big project. Around this time, her husband suggested getting a dog. She resisted for several years, then relented. When she was 65, they adopted Casey, a two-year-old rescue mutt with an appealing personality.
He left dog hairs everywhere and peed on her favorite chair the day they brought him home. But the result was an unexpected next new thing, a gradual transformation of how she is approaching life, and a lovely new book, a memoir, titled Starter Dog.
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Don't miss the Behind The Scenes essay for each new episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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Of course, the book is not just about her dog. Rona is an extraordinary writer so it is the woven story of her life as a young woman and a young wife, her ambitions, her relationship to food (and Casey’s), getting older, and how - with Casey leading the way through her Toronto neighborhood - she began to soften and notice more. In the book she illuminates how taking Casey for daily walks ultimately made her a better person. She pulls the past and present together, and, engagingly, includes quotations from two of Debbie's favorite poets: Emily Dickinson and Gerard Manley Hopkins.
Rona learns how to be kind (kindness was not stressed when she was growing up in a household full of ambition), how to befriend strangers and the homeless, how to appreciate the details of changing seasons and the outdoors (after working at a desk for so many years), how to be more patient, and how to live in the moment.
Because of course while she was growing old - eight years pass - her dog was growing older. Casey is now 10, while Rona's in her mid-70s, and he’s teaching her how to embrace old age. Just take it one walk, one squirrel, one bowl of dog food (two if you’re lucky), and one day at a time.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Starter Dog: My Path to Joy, Belonging and Loving This World by Rona Maynard (ECW Press, 2023)My Mother's Daughter: a Memoir by Rona Maynard (McClelland & Stewart, 2009)RonaMaynard.comRona's new Substack newsletter: Amazement SeekerPoet Emily DickinsonPoet Gerard Manley HopkinsConnect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] and Sam’s blog: Gap Year After SixtyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Welcome back to Season 6! You might’ve noticed that we changed the name of the show to more accurately reflect the focus, which is to explore the transition from midlife to old age. [B]OLDER seemed a bit too general, so it's now [B]OLD AGE. Given our ageist society, it requires [b]oldness to say proudly, "I am old." This season our goal is to be even more honest and vulnerable about what it’s like as the clock ticks away.
For this first episode, Debbie is joined by her husband, Sam Harrington, a popular recurring guest who is known for his dry humor. He's a retired physician and an author.
They start by talking about how aging has suddenly accelerated for both of them, in their early 70s. Sam says he can see his telomeres fraying when he looks in the mirror. He notes that only a decade ago they still looked remarkably young in photos. (See photo accompanying this episode; in 2014 Debbie and Sam were hanging out in Madagascar with lemurs.)
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Don't miss the accompanying Behind The Scenes essay for this new episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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They also talk about the long vigil of accompanying a dying parent and how that affects your own sense of old age; how health span has noticeably increased in the past 50 years; and what the stunning demographic shift to an aging society will mean. By 2030, there will be more adults over 65 than children under 18.
Debbie notes the parallel between the acceleration of aging and the acceleration of global warming. At first the changes are slow and hardly noticeable. Then they happen all at once, like this past summer.
But the conversation veers back to the physiological fact of aging. Sam's favorite mantra is that "80 might be the new 60, but 86 is the new 85." The current research to better understand and to slow aging may be too late to benefit them, Sam says.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Definition of heuristicDefinition of telomeresLiving to 120 is becoming an imaginable prospect (The Economist, Sept. 28, 2023)How a Vast Demographic Shift Will Reshape the World (The New York Times, July 16, 2023)The Washington Gerontocracy (The New Yorker, September 24, 2023)AT PEACE: Choosing a Good Death After a Long Life by Samuel Harrington MD (Hachette, 2018)Earlier podcast episode: S5-EP7: Andrew Steele on Research at the Cellular Level That Could Slow AgingSam’s summer project: Island Workforce Housing on Deer Isle, Maine.Connect with Debbie:
[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] & Sam's joint blog: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
When Debbie started this podcast almost five years ago, she was as she puts it "a mere 67." Old age seemed very far away. Now it doesn’t.
So this season we’re focusing on the lived experience of old age. What’s it really like? What are the truths, both positive and negative, about moving from midlife to old age? How do you OWN being old in a society that devalues and even denigrates old people?
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Don't miss the BTS (behind-the-scenes) for every episode in Debbie's [B]OLD AGE newsletter.
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We’ll still talk about things like finding purpose and redefining retirement. But we’ll also look at the upside of slowing down; for example, "being" vs. "doing" when you’ve been driven by ambition your whole life.
The point is to bring you honest and vulnerable dispatches of the ordinary and the profound. And so this little tweak in the name: it’s now the [B]OLD AGE podcast because it takes courage and [b]oldness to move gracefully from midlife into old age.
We hope what we talk about here will help you on your own transition into [b]old age, wherever you are now. Maybe you're young and worrying about becoming middle-aged. Or you're in midlife and looking ahead.
As always, send comments or questions to [email protected]. And check out Debbie's new [B]OLD AGE newsletter where you can get the BTS (behind-the-scenes) on each episode of the podcast, read her personal essays, get writing tips, and more. You can leave your comments on every Substack post. Debbie promises to respond.
Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLD AGE podcast[B]OLD AGE newsletter on SubstackEmail: [email protected] with her husband Sam: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie brings her husband Sam Harrington back on the show to wrap up another [B]OLDER season.
You'll hear their 11-year-old granddaughter Ruthie talking about her recent trip with them to the Swiss Alps. Definitely a high point of the season and of the past year.
A lot has happened during Season 5 of [B]OLDER: Debbie and Sam celebrated their 50th anniversary while they were in San Miguel de Allende in Mexico. Then, right after that, Debbie's 92-year-old mother died unexpectedly, prompting a lot of memories, much appreciation, and a blunt reminder of life’s finitude.
We re-ran episodes with some of our most popular guests who talked about psychedelic therapy and about Covid’s place in the history of plagues.
*****
NEW! Read and subscribe to Debbie's Substack.
Substack is the new home for Debbie's newsletter. She offers behind-the-scenes commentary on the latest episodes of the podcast. She also writes from a personal perspective about entering the land of the old at 71.*****
In Season 5 Debbie talked to new guests about cellular research on aging, about helping elderly parents plan ahead, what UNretirement is really like, and one of her all-time favorite interviews: a conversation with famed New York Times health columnist Jane Brody about what she learned from a half century at the Times. And finally, renowned writer and speaker Jonathan Merritt eloquently explained God and religion to Debbie, a non-church person.
In this wrap-up you’ll hear Sam - hopefully not slurping his coffee but maybe a little - and teasing Debbie about "jumping right in." (She likes that podcast expression; he does not.)
This is the finale of Season 5 of the [B]OLDER podcast. Have a great summer, thank you for listening, and we’ll be back in the fall.
In the meantime, find Debbie on Substack where she writes about what it's really like to grow old(er)?
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
S5-EP8: Debbie & Sam on 50 Years of MarriageS5-EP19: Jonathan Merritt on Personal Transformation and the Complicated Intersection of Faith and CultureS5-EP6: Jane Brody on Life and Lessons From a Half Century at The New York TimesS5-EP7: Andrew Steele on Research at the Cellular Level That Could Slow AgingS5-EP11: Expat Bonnie Lee Black on the Pros (& Very Few Cons) of Retiring to San Miguel de AllendeS5-EP14: Best Of: Plague Expert Nicholas Christakis on Why the Pandemic Will End in 2024S5-EP17: Best Of: Dr. Bree Johnston on Psilocybin Trips and the Growing Acceptance of Psychedelic TherapyS5-EP10: Star Bradbury on How to Successfully Navigate the Care of Elderly ParentsMore links
On Debbie's Substack: Switzerland with Ruthie: Mind-Bending and Memory-LadenBackroads (the tour company Debbie and Sam used for their trip to Switzerland)The Eiger Mountain which looms over GrindelwaldCrash Landing on You (the popular Korean TV series filmed in Iseltwald, Switzerland)Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastSubstack: https://debbieweil.substack.com/Email: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie speaks to Jonathan Merritt, one of America’s most renowned writers on faith and culture.
Debbie met Jonathan in the hot tub in Baja Mexico, but don’t get the wrong idea.
They were both in Baja to attend a weeklong workshop organized by Modern Elder Academy. And as you’ll hear in this episode, "change and transformation" were very much on the agenda.
You may have heard her talk about MEA. It’s billed as a midlife wisdom school whose core mission is to shift our negative mindset about aging. MEA is also a little bit of paradise. The campus, bursting with pink bougainvillea, sits on a wide, surf-pounded beach near Todos Santos, MX, just north of Cabo.
*****
NEW! Subscribe to Debbie's Substack.
Substack is the new home for Debbie's regular newsletter. She offers behind-the-scenes commentary on the latest episodes of the podcast. She also writes from a personal perspective about entering the land of the old at 71.*****
Debbie and Jonathan were part of a group of about 20 in a recent workshop, pondering how to use sensory experience in the here and now to map out their futures. Debbie was intrigued with Jonathan’s thoughtful comments. She was also drawn to his Atlanta accent which she couldn’t quite place at first but which she recognized. She has a bunch of Georgia cousins.
In the hot tub, Jonathan revealed a bit about why he had flown from New York to spend a week at MEA. She wanted to find out more so she invited him onto the show. And she wanted him to explain things to her, a non church-person.
Jonathan is best known as a writer on the complicated intersection of faith and culture — as it applies to LGBTQ intolerance and evangelicalism — and much more.
The son of an evangelical leader and a former pastor himself, Jonathan was outed as gay a decade ago. He moved to New York City and has since become an award-winning contributor to The Atlantic, a senior columnist for Religion News Service; has authored several books (including the critically-acclaimed How to Speak God From Scratch); has been interviewed on ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, NPR and PBS; is a literary agent; has ghostwritten or collaborated on more than 50 books (with several titles landing on the NYTimes, USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestseller lists); speaks and teaches at colleges, conferences and churches; has just finished writing his first children’s book; and is writing a TV series about religion and popular culture.
Oh, and he just turned 40.
Despite — or perhaps because of — his achievements, Jonathan is working on a transformation, his own “what’s next.” He’s an old soul, he tells Debbie, so he’s approaching this with intentionality; his week at MEA was just one step.
On the podcast they talk about:
The urge to embrace spirituality (and religion) as you get older.Why Sunday service at Yale’s Battell Chapel felt like a safe place for Debbie to weep after her mother died recently — even though she is not a church-person.The definition of evangelicalism.The connection between evangelicalism and fundamentalism and far right conservative ideologies.The Rev. Tim Keller and his untimely death in May 2023 at age 72 (in his obituary, the NYT dubbed him Manhattan’s Pioneering Evangelist).Jonathan’s personal story of being outed as gay just days before his 30th birthday, and then moving from Atlanta to NYC to start a new life.Appreciative inquiry and the art of asking ourselves the right questions.Jonathan’s adaptation of The Ignation Examen as part of his daily intentional practice.And, despite his notable success as a journalist, speaker, literary agent, ghostwriter, creative and more, why he’s feeling the need to transform himself at age 40.As Debbie tells Jonathan, she could listen to him explain things all day — especially as they relate to religion, church, community, identity, intolerance and more. And yes, it's okay to go to church, he told her. Even if you don't believe in God, per se. She loved this conversation and hopes you will too.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
About Jonathanjonathanmerritt.comJonathan's InstagramTwitterLinks to Jonathan's workThe Ignatian ExamenJonathan’s church: Good Shepherd New YorkTim Keller Taught Me About Joy by David Brooks (NYT, May 22 2023)My Complicated Feelings About Tim Keller (Kirsten Powers on her Substack,May 24 2023)What Does 'Evangelical' Mean? By Jonathan Merritt (The Atlantic, December 7 2015)The April 2023 workshop Debbie and Jonathan attended at MEA (led by Michael Perman)Yale's Battell ChapelConnect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastEmail: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Debbie brings her friend Karen Wickre back on the show to talk about "aging in place" and other things, including being a singleton in her 70s.
They met over 20 years ago when Debbie interviewed Karen, who was editor of Google’s blog, for Debbie's book, The Corporate Blogging Book. Not surprisingly, Google was an early adopter of this new form of communication. They've stayed in touch ever since.
Karen had a stellar career in tech, working at Google and then at Twitter. She retired when she was 65 (she didn’t call it “retirement” back then) and is now an editorial consultant. She lives alone in San Francisco where she's owned her apartment for over 20 years. Now that she’s completed a strategically-planned renovation, she plans to stay there to "age in place."
She is the author of Taking the Work Out of Networking: Your Guide to Making and Keeping Great Connections.
They talk about the power of networking, the importance of connections later in life, especially if you are a solo ager, planning ahead if you want to age in place, and what the definition of home is - beyond location - and how that might change as you grow older.
Debbie shares her thoughts about what and where home is - as she looks ahead.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
KarenWickre.comTwitterher daily InstagramTaking the Work Out of Networking: Your Guide to Making and Keeping Great Connections by Karen Wickre (Gallery Books, 2019)S1-EP4: Karen Wickre on What You Need to Know About Networking to Reinvent Your Life (March 22, 2019)Definition of "aging in place"Right Place, Right Time: The Ultimate Guide to Choosing a Home for the Second Half of Life by Ryan Frederick (Johns Hopkins University Press; 2021)How to use design thinking to create a happier life for yourself
*****
NEW! Subscribe to Debbie's Substack.
Substack is the new home for Debbie's regular newsletter. She offers behind-the-scenes commentary on the latest episodes of the podcast. She also writes in more depth, from a personal perspective, about the land of the old: the positives, the negatives, and the surprises.*****
Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastEmail: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Debbie talks with Dr. Bree Johnston, a geriatrician and palliative care physician in practice for 35 years who is also certified in psychedelic therapies. This is a re-airing of an episode published one year ago.
The topic of psychedelic therapy has gone mainstream in the past several years and especially in the past year. In the year since Debbie and Dr. Bree spoke, the use of psilocybin, MDMA and other psychedelics as therapy for addiction, depression and to ease fear of death has been increasingly in the news. The use of psilocybin is now legal or decriminalized in a handful of states in addition to Oregon.
Dr. Bree is an especially clear speaker and talks openly about the benefits of her own psilocybin trips. She tells us she wishes she could prescribe them for her elderly patients who are anxious about dying.
She explains everything you might want to know about different psychedelics, what their effects are, what to be wary of and more.
As to how this topic fits into aging and reinvention, Debbie says were she to receive a fatal diagnosis from cancer or another disease, she's pretty sure she would seek a guided psilocybin trip to ease fear of dying.
UPDATE on legal status of psychedelicsAs Evidence For Treatment Potential Grows, So Has Psychedelic Legality (VeryWellMind.com, Nov. 18, 2022)Where are psychedelics legal in the U.S.? (Hearst Newspaper Blogger Network, Nov. 25, 2022)U.S. could soon approve MDMA therapy, opening an era of psychedelic medicine (Nature, April 19, 2023) RECENTLY IN THE NEWS:A Psychedelic Pioneer (Dr. Roland Griffiths) Takes the Ultimate Trip by David Marchese ((The New York Times, April 7, 2023).*****
NEW! Subscribe to Debbie's Substack.
Substack is the new home for Debbie's regular newsletter. She offers behind-the-scenes commentary on the latest episodes of the podcast. She also writes in more depth, from a personal perspective, about the land of the old: the positives, the negatives, and the surprises.*****
COMPLETE SHOW NOTES:
Complete show notes with more resources and links from the May 2022 airing of this episode are here.
NOTE FROM DEBBIEIf you've been enjoying the podcast, please leave a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than two minutes and it really makes a difference.
Connect with Debbie:Website: debbieweil.comTwitter: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilFacebook: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilBlog: Gap Year After SixtyEmail: [email protected] Media PartnersCoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNEXT FOR ME: former media partner (and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)
Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaPodcast websiteMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Debbie talks to the incomparably prolific writer and editor Sari Botton about her popular online Oldster Magazine and how the topic of growing old touches a nerve with everyone from Millennials to GenXers (she is 57) to Boomers.
Sari Botton publishes three different newsletters on Substack and she’s got over 1,500 paying subscribers. So growing old is definitely a hot topic - and not just for Boomers in their 60s and 70s.
Her approach to aging is interesting; in fact, she’s been obsessed with growing older since she turned 10 and entered double digits. And she says she still feels 10 or 11 inside her head. She describes aging as traveling through time in a human body—of any gender, at every phase of life. Thus Oldster Magazine is about the experience of getting older and what that means at different junctures.
In this episode Sari and Debbie talk about ageism (what it is and isn’t); Sari's experiences of growing older (no more wooden clogs for her); and the close to 100 interviews she's done on Oldster about growing older (and what we can learn from them). They also talk about Martha Stewart’s recent Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Cover. Does it make the point that you can look good in a swimsuit at any age (Martha is 81)? That age doesn’t matter?? Or is this just Martha Stewart being Martha Stewart?
They also delve into Sari's new skincare routine (yes, a nod to getting older) and why birthday parties are so important to her.
Sari is the author of the memoir in essays, And You May Find Yourself...Confessions of a Late-Blooming Gen-X Weirdo and was a contributing editor and columnist at Catapult, and the former Essays Editor for Longreads. She edited the bestselling anthologies Goodbye to All That: Writers on Loving and Leaving NewYork and Never Can Say Goodbye: Writers on Their Unshakable Love for New York. She teaches creative nonfiction at Bay Path University and Kingston Writers' Studio. She publishes Oldster Magazine, Memoir Land, and Adventures in Journalism. She is the Writer in Residence in the creative writing department of SUNY New Paltz for Spring, 2023.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
SariBotton.comOldster MagazineAdventures In "Journalism"Memoir LandSari’s answers: This is 56: I Respond to My Own QuestionnaireAbout that Martha Stewart Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue Cover... (Oldster Magazine, May 26, 2023)S5-EP15 of [B]OLDER: Abigail Thomas on Life at 81Anne LamottPatti SmithOldster T-shirts: OldsterMagazineMerchEgyptian Magic skincareGlow Juice skincare
More from Oldster:
This is 32: Beauty Journalist Jessica DeFino Responds to The Oldster Magazine QuestionnaireThis is 48-and-10-Months: Author and Podcaster Jennifer RomoliniThis is 46: Maggie SmithThis is 72: Master Memoirist Beverly DonofrioAn Interesting Question - by Abigail Thomas A Wrinkle in Time - by Laurie StoneThe Unpublishable (Jessica DeFino’s magazine about the beauty industry)Get the inside skinny on every episode of [B]OLDER:
Subscribe to Debbie’s newsletter for the inside story about every episode. You will also get her 34-page writing guide: https://bitly.com/debbie-free-guide.
Request from Debbie:
If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take a moment to leave a short review on Apple Podcasts. It really makes a difference in attracting new listeners.
Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastEmail: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNEXT FOR ME: former media partner (and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)
How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or Spotify
Credits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie speaks with bestselling author Abigail Thomas whom Stephen King calls “the Emily Dickinson of memoirists."
Her new memoir, titled "Still Life at Eighty," is a series of loosely connected essays on the topic of aging. But it's so much more than that. Abby, as she insisted that Debbie call her, is funny and frank and profane as she talks about the good and the bad of aging. Yes, there are aches and pains. No, she doesn't mind being old. In fact, she loves it. She no longer cares what people think of her and - just for the record - she is not afraid of death. As she puts it: "Please God, let there be no afterlife."
In this conversation she and Debbie talk about her writing (Debbie finds it "transcendent"), her relationship to time and memories, her longterm friendship with literary agent Chuck Verrill (who died in early 2022), and why she loves working with clay.
Abby is the daughter of renowned science writer Lewis Thomas, the mother of four children and a grandmother of 12. She is the bestselling author of several previous memoirs, including "A Three Dog Life" and "What Comes Next and How to Like It." She lives in Woodstock, NY with her dogs, where she writes and teaches writing.
Mentioned in this episode or useful:
Her website: Abigail ThomasStill Life at Eighty: The Next Interesting Thing by Abigail Thomas (Golden Notebook Press (February 28, 2023)What Comes Next and How to Like It: A Memoir by Abigail Thomas (Scribner; 2015)A Three Dog Life: A Memoir by Abigail Thomas (Mariner Books; 2006)The Next Interesting Thing from Abigail Thomas (Next Avenue, March 9, 2023)Hope? Ha Ha Ha Ha... - by Abigail Thomas (Oldster Magazine, May 3, 2023)Memoir is Exploration, So Keep Yourself Open: An Interview with Abigail Thomas (Brevity Blog, April 20, 2023)Chuck Verrill, Editor and Agent, RIP (Chuck Verrill (her literary agent) died in 2022)"STILL LIFE AT EIGHTY is a little jewel box of a book, full of epiphanies that are comforting and merciless in the gentlest possible way. Both a series of meditations and a user’s manual about growing old, I was amazed by its clarity... Even the title, with its deliberate ambiguity, is a very cool thing." — Stephen King
PHOTO CREDIT: Jennifer Waddell
Get the inside skinny on every episode of [B]OLDER:
Subscribe to Debbie’s newsletter for the inside story about every episode. You will also get her 34-page writing guide: https://bitly.com/debbie-free-guide.
Request from Debbie:
If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take a moment to leave a short review on Apple Podcasts. It really makes a difference in attracting new listeners.
Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastEmail: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweil
Our Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake -
Today, Debbie re-runs the single most popular of 100+ episodes of [B]OLDER. Exactly two years ago, in the spring of 2021, she asked plague expert Nicholas Christakis, a distinguished Yale professor and author, the burning question: when will the COVID-19 pandemic end?
His answer: 2024. It startled her and burst her bubble of optimism. Vaccines were widely available by then and it seemed like the beginning of the end. Surely he was exaggerating how long it would take for the COVID pandemic to wind down? No, it was only the end of the beginning, he told her.
Today that makes sense. And of course, it was prescient.
Tune into a re-run of one of the most fascinating episodes of [B]OLDER. (Note that Debbie refers to it as The Gap Year Podcast, the name she gave the podcast during the height of the pandemic. It's now the [B]OLDER podcast. Same podcast; different name.)
PHOTO CREDIT: Evan Mann
*****
NEW! Subscribe to Debbie's Substack.
Substack is the new home for Debbie's regular newsletter. She offers behind-the-scenes commentary on the latest episodes of the podcast. She also writes in more depth, from a personal perspective, about the land of the old: the positives, the negatives, and the surprises.*****
SHOW NOTES from the original interview with Nicholas Christakis (May 7, 2021)
Nicholas Christakis, MD, PhD, MPH, and a Sterling Professor at Yale, has been named to TIME magazine’s list of the 100 Most Influential People in the World. His fluency in explaining the intertwined science, epidemiology, psychology, sociology and history of pandemics - and his sense of humor - make this a compelling episode.
You’ll hear why he chose to publish his latest book, Apollo’s Arrow, in the fall of 2020, before we knew the end of the story of COVID-19How his childhood experiences with illness and death affected his career choicesWhat the predictable three phases of a pandemic are (in 2021 we were still in the immediate phase)Why he thinks this pandemic won’t be over until 2024They also talked about separating the biological vs. the psychological impacts of the pandemicWhat herd immunity actually means and whether we’ll get thereAnd what the public health messaging around the pandemic should beDebbie asks him point blank: when is the next pandemic? The answer is unnerving – sooner than you might think.
About Nicholas Christakis
WikipediaTwitterYale UniversityTed TalksHuman Nature Lab at YaleBooks by Nicholas Christakis
Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live by Nicholas Christakis (Little, Brown Spark 2020)Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society by Nicholas Christakis (Little, Brown Spark 2019)Connected: The Surprising Power of Our Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives by Nicholas Christakis (Little, Brown Spark 2009)Death Foretold: Prophecy and Prognosis in Medical Care by Nicholas Christakis (University of Chicago Press, 2001)Articles and interviews
The New York Times Book Review: The Pandemic’s Future — and Ours (NYT Book Review of Apollo’s Arrow, November 3, 2020)A year of COVID: Making sense of an ‘alien and unnatural’ time (Yale News, March 4, 2021)Epidemiologist looks to the past to predict second post-pandemic ‘roaring 20s’ (The Guardian, December 21, 2020)Denial And Lies Are ‘Almost An Intrinsic Part Of An Epidemic,’ Doctor Says (NPR, October 29, 2020)The pandemic is as much about society, leaders, and values as it is about a pathogen (Science Mag, November 17, 2020)The Importance of Being Little: What Young Children Really Need from Grownups by Erika Christakis (Penguin Books 2016)Remote Learning Isn’t the Only Problem With School (The Atlantic, December 2020)The COVID-19 Pandemic and the $16 Trillion Virus by Larry H. Summers, PhD and David M. Cutler, PhD (October 12, 2020)Mentioned or useful
The Plague by Albert Camus (1947)What Is R-naught? Gauging Contagious Infections (Healthline, April 20, 2020)What is Epidemiology?What is Sociology?Connect with Debbie:
debbieweil.com[B]OLDER podcastEmail: [email protected]: Gap Year After SixtyFacebook: @debbieweilInstagram: @debbieweilLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/debbieweilTwitter: @debbieweilOur Media Partners:
CoGenerate (formerly Encore.org)MEA and with thanks to Chip ConleyNext For Me (former media partner and in memory of Jeff Tidwell)How to Support this podcast:
Leave a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or SpotifyCredits:
Host: Debbie WeilProducer: Far Out MediaMusic: Lakeside Path by Duck Lake - Näytä enemmän
