Episodit
-
Gregg Henriques is a clinical psychologist and professor at James Madison University. He is known for his Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK), which integrates various domains of psychology into a coherent framework.
What drives our social connections and sense of belonging? In this episode, originally recorded at the UTOC 2024 conference, John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques explore the profound concept of recursive relevance realization, focusing on its integration into a fourth R: interpersonal relationality. Their conversation intricately weaves together cognitive science, philosophy, and psychotherapy, presenting a compelling case for understanding how relevance realization shapes social value and collective intelligence. By providing insights into predictive processing and the influence matrix, they uncover the complex dynamics of human cognition and social interaction. This episode not only offers a theoretical framework but also practical strategies for fostering meaningful connections in various aspects of life.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
—
“Meaning in life is exactly what Gregg described: what keeps you going even when your subjective well-being is going down.” - John Vervaeke [00:39:15]
“We need to be connected to what we deem to be really real.” - John Vervaeke [00:42:12]
—
00:00 Introduction: Exploring the Fourth R
03:50 The Importance of Interpersonal Relationality
07:30 Exploring the Connection between Recursive Relevance Realization and the Influence Matrix
12:20 Anticipatory Relevance Realization: Integrating with the Influence Matrix and Predictive Processing
21:10 The Fourth R: Collective Intelligence and Reciprocal Recognition
23:30 Personal Memories and Relational Dynamics: Practical Examples
30:25 Integrating Theories: Bridging Science, Therapy, and Collective Intelligence
34:55 Social Influence vs. Relational Value: Implications for Society
38:35 Meaning in Life and Belonging: Integrative Insights
46:05 Reflections on Self and Social Justice: Future Directions
48:30 Final Thoughts: Collaboration and Convergence
—
Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today.
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Timothy Leary - Circumplex Model
John Bowlby’s Attachment Theory
Michael Levin - Cognitive Light Cone
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit by Terry Pinkard
Jim Rutt - GameB Concept
Kelly-Ann Allen
Joshua Hicks
Grice's Maxims of Conversation
Untangling the World Knot - John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques
—
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Gregg Henriques: Website | Twitter | UTOK
—
Thank you for watching!
-
Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Plato's cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
—
"Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention." - John Vervaeke [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are what's organizing our experience online. It's not a human being, but it's playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and people's development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” - Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isn't going to set us on a path to destruction. - John Vervaeke [00:59:16]
—
0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Plato's Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
—
Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today.
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart Environments, Allostasis, and Metacognitive Control - Ben White and Mark Miller
Tristan Harris
Heidegger
—
The Crossroads of Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization | Leiden SymposiumAI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist
—
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Mahon McCann: Website | Instagram | YouTube
—
Thank you for watching!
-
Puuttuva jakso?
-
In the vast expanse of human thought, how do philosophy and spirituality intertwine to shape our understanding of the sacred? In this conversation, first released on Andrew Sweeny's channel, The Parallax, John Vervaeke, Andrew Sweeny, and Christopher Mastropietro examine the delicate balance between philosophical rigor and spiritual experiences. They probe the challenges and rewards of navigating this complex terrain, emphasizing the transformative power of love, wisdom, and existential inquiry. By blurring the traditional boundaries between philosophical inquiry and religious practice, this conversation invites listeners to deepen their exploration of truth and meaning, ultimately fostering personal and communal growth.
Andrew Sweeny is an educator, writer, musician, and podcaster who currently teaches at Sciences Po University in Paris and serves as an editor at Parallax magazine.
Christopher Mastropietro is a philosophical writer who is fascinated by dialogue, symbols, and the concept of self. He actively contributes to the Vervaeke Foundation.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis
Nothingness Beyond God: An Introduction to the Philosophy of Nishida Kitaro, by Robert Edgar Carter
Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis, co-authored by Christopher Mastropietro
Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being, by James Filler
Iain McGilchrist
Daniel Schmachtenberger
Bishop Maximus
Paul Vander Klay
T.S. Eliot
Jordan Peterson
Sallie McFague
Richard Dawkins
Carl Jung
Søren Kierkegaard
Jacob Howland
Douglas Hedley
Jordan Hall
“The more people I'm talking to—high caliber, high quality people in this whole arena—the advent of the sacred as a response to the meaning crisis is a growing theme. I have found myself more and more called into service to doing whatever I can to afford the advent of that.” - John Vervaeke [00:02:00]
"Nobody lives on the Silk Road; people move along it." - John Vervaeke [00:03:37]
"The idea of the Silk Road, to me, is that the wandering, and the traveling, and the encountering different influences, and the metabolizing of a lingua philosophica helps to create a space within oneself into which that inward process can pour itself, discover itself, and metabolize itself." - Christopher Mastropietro [00:10:57]
“The more I engage with this work, the more I realize that so much of the dawning consciousness of our encounter with the sacred is ultimately a process that happens to us. It occurs to us. We can bring consciousness to bear on it, and augment it, and make space for it, and inquire within it in such a way as to invite it.” - Christopher Mastropietro [00:11:23]
0:00 Embracing the Philosophical Silk Road: From Top-Down Religion to an Organic Spiritual Path
17:00 On the Philosophical Silk Road: An Interfaith Journey, Personal Transformation, and Confronting Idolatry
28:30 Beyond the Culture War: Embracing Authentic Dialogue and the Embodiment of Beliefs
35:40 The Unresolvable Dialogue: Embracing the Infinite Game Between Socrates and Jesus
44:10 Rediscovering the Essence of Faith: Beyond Doctrine to Personal Transformation
56:00 The Wildness of the Sacred: Recognizing and Integrating Spontaneous Spiritual Experiences
1:02:50 Philosophical and Sacred Synergies: Bridging the Divide through Love and Wisdom
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
Follow John Vervaeke:
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Andrew Sweeny
https://twitter.com/andrewpgsweeny
https://andrewpgsweeny.medium.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@parallax_media
Connect with Christopher Mastropietro
https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Thank you for listening!
-
Evan Thompson is a philosopher and author, specializing in the integration of cognitive science, philosophy of mind, and Asian philosophical traditions. Based at the University of British Columbia, his work, including his recent book 'The Blind Spot', examines the intersections of consciousness, experience, and reality through a comprehensive interdisciplinary approach.
Can cognitive science, philosophy, and mysticism hold the keys to resolving our modern meaning crisis?
Join John Vervaeke and Evan Thompson in a captivating exploration of how these disciplines converge to address this pressing issue. The conversation showcases Thompson's interdisciplinary approach, drawing from his work on 'The Blind Spot' and his extensive background in Asian philosophy and phenomenology. Gain fresh perspectives on the essence of lived experience, the power of relevance realization, and the nature of reality as the discussion unfolds. Prepare for an intellectual journey that promises to deepen our understanding of truth, goodness, and beauty and bridge the gaps between diverse intellectual traditions.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Immerse yourself in the groundbreaking insights of Evan Thompson's thought-provoking book, "The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience.” https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Spot-Science-Cannot-Experience/dp/0262048809
—
“"The blind spot is the inability to see, or to recognize, or to acknowledge that lived experience is the source of science. And so if you undercut the source of science by occluding lived experience, you're actually damaging science." - Evan Thompson [00:19:34]
"The process of formalization of translating things into a formal system is always an ill-defined problem that requires relevance realization." - John Vervaeke [00:30:52]
—
00:00 Introduction to Evan Thompson and 'The Blind Spot'
01:05 Evan Thompson's Background and Philosophical Journey
02:10 Diving Into 'The Blind Spot': A Book on the Meaning Crisis
09:30 Exploring Core Ideas and Arguments of 'The Blind Spot'
18:15 Addressing the Meaning Crisis: Science, Experience, and Reality
18:55 Navigating Between Science Triumphalism and Denial
21:30 The Role of Experience in Understanding Reality
31:25 Challenging the Bifurcation of Nature and the 'View from Nowhere'
38:45 Sacredness, Reality, and the Meaning Crisis
40:30 Exploring the Sacred Beyond Science
41:55 Exploring the Depths of the Sacred and Ultimate Concern: Secular vs. Transcendental Perspectives
47:45 The Axial Revolution and Its Impact on Modern Consciousness
56:45 Challenges and Opportunities in Bridging Science and Mysticism
59:54 Philosophical Reflections on Truth, Beauty, and the Good
01:11:10 Concluding Thoughts and Future Dialogues
—
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
—
Idea, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - book co-authored by Evan Thompson, Adam Frank, and Marcelo Gleiser
Waking, Dreaming, Being: Self and Consciousness in Neuroscience, Meditation, and Philosophy - book by Evan Thompson
Why I Am Not a Buddhist - book by Evan Thompson
Contact with Reality - book by Esther Lightcap Meek
The Nothingness Beyond God - book by Robert Edgar Carter
Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Edmund Husserl
Martin Heidegger
William James
Galileo Galilei
Nishida Kitaro
Alfred North Whitehead
Nancy Cartwright
René Descartes
Robert Kreese
Paul Tillich
Michael Polanyi
Michael Schellenberger
Susan Wolf
Ursula Goodenough
Immanuel Kant
—
Follow John Vervaeke:
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Evan Thompson:
https://evanthompson.me/
http://twitter.com/evantthompson
https://www.facebook.com/evan.timothy.thompson
—
Thank you for watching!
-
Elizabeth Oldfield is a writer, speaker, and advocate for intentional community living based in South London. Her work, including her book 'Fully Alive', explores the intersections of faith, culture, and ethics through a deeply personal lens.
In a world that often trivializes love and deep connections, how can we cultivate a life of wisdom, virtue, and transcendence amidst our finite existence and growing polarization?
Join John Vervaeke and Elizabeth Oldfield in a profound dialogue that explores these critical themes of human existence, drawing from Platonic to Christian thought and emphasizing the transformative power of dialogical reasoning, cognitive flexibility, and awe. Elizabeth Oldfield shares insights from her book 'Fully Alive,' an Augustinian blend of autobiographical confession and psycho-spiritual reflection that highlights relational living and the transformative power of love. The conversation addresses the trivialization of love in modern culture and advocates for a deeper understanding while navigating the complexities of polarization in politics, the comparison between psychedelic and spiritual experiences, and the intrinsic value of community and wisdom traditions in achieving a virtuous life. Discover the necessity of grounding transformative experiences in communal practices for genuine personal and societal transformation in this thought-provoking discussion.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Discover a profound exploration of love, wisdom, and the human soul in Elizabeth Oldfield's upcoming book, "Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times." https://www.amazon.com/Fully-Alive-Tending-Turbulent-Times/dp/1587436507
—
“I can close my eyes now and know myself’s seen, and the deep knowing of the presence of love in my life and the way that every other moment of love, and encounter, and intimacy reflects that is the ground of my being.” - Elizabeth Oldfield [00:32:48]
"Wisdom is about this loving enhancement of our connectedness. The wise person can go into a complex, messy, ill-defined situation and home in on what's relevant, summoning their agency in the right way so that they are properly responsible." - John Vervaeke [00:31:04]
—
0:00 Introduction to Voices with Vervaeke: Elizabeth Oldfield'
1:30 Elizabeth Oldfield: Life, Faith, and the Quest for Existential Satisfaction
2:50 Exploring 'Fully Alive': Deep Dialogues on Belonging, Soul, and Existential Satisfaction
6:05 Plato's Insights on the Psyche, Inner Conflict, and the Pursuit of Inner Fullness
10:20 The Quest for Inner Peace, Wisdom, and Understanding Sin
14:20 The Interplay of Love, Wisdom, and the Divine in the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness
27:15 Unpacking the Realization of the Really Real: Connectedness, Love, and Presence
45:50 Identity, Cultural Scripts, and the Tension between Faith and Intellect
47:45 Expanding Our Understanding of Intelligence, Reality, and the Role of Attention
1:00:40 The Challenge of Authentic Love, Reverence, and Awe in a Trivialized World
1:13:10 Reverence, Awe, and the Cultivation of Virtue on the Path to Wisdom
1:22:50 Concluding Reflections on Love, Wisdom, and the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness
—
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
—
Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Plato
Freud
Pascal
Dialogos
Kenosis
Thumos
Homo Inconvartis in Se
Plato’s Dialogues
—
Follow John Vervaeke:
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Elizabeth Oldfield:
https://www.elizabetholdfield.com/
https://www.instagram.com/elizabethsaraholdfield
https://twitter.com/esoldfield
—
Thank you for watching!
-
Kyle Koch is a facilitator at Evolve Move Play, where he integrates dialogical practices into natural settings to foster deep personal connections and psychological growth.
Have you ever wondered about the impact of our environment on our cognition and ability to connect with others? In this episode of Voice with Vervaeke, John and Kyle explore the integration of dialogical practices within natural settings, the psychological and communal impacts of such practices, and the potential for deep listening to forge powerful, transformative experiences.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
We invite you to sign up for Evolve Move Play's "Embedded Experience" weekend workshops with Kyle Koch. Register at https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/weekend-workshops
-
"Memory is about the future. It’s not about the past. Memories reconstruct and reconfigure in powerful, often unconscious ways to improve your ability to foresee in a relevant, realizing manner, the future." - John Vervaeke [25:13]
"Rituals only matter to the degree to which they transfer broadly and deeply into many domains in your life and transfer broadly and deeply into many layers of your psyche." - John Vervaeke [57:27]
-
0:00 Rekindling Connections: Dialogue and Nature
4:50 Environmental Impact on Cognition: Embodied Practices and Deep Listening
13:10 Evolutionary Impact of Campfires: Hypnosis, Shared Attention, and Ritual for Cognition and Connectedness
11:00 The Role of Deep Listening in Dialogical Practices
22:50 Ritual and Long-Term Change: Reconstructive Memory and Internalizing Wise Spirit
29:30 The Role of Place and Virtual Reality in Storytelling and Evolutionary Constraints
32:40 Navigating Virtual Technology: Maladaptations and the Importance of Wisdom in Epistemic Vulnerability
41:00 The Evolution of Evolvability
50:00 The Power of Pilgrimage and Serious Play
59:30 Language and Expression of Transformation: Connectivity, Aliveness, and the We Space
1:06:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Opportunities for Embodied Experiences
-
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
-
Follow John Vervaeke:
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Kyle Koch:
https://www.instagram.com/trottingsparrow/
https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/
-
Thank you for watching!
-
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke, alongside Terri Dentry and Aspasia Karageorge, delves into the complex interplay between emotions, chronic pain, and the mechanisms of healing within the framework of Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP). Through a rich dialogue, the discussion unfolds to explore the intricate ways in which pain serves not only as a physical experience but as a profound emotional and psychological defense mechanism, obscuring underlying emotional disturbances and traumas. The conversation navigates through the socialization of pain, the pivotal role of emotional awareness in healing, and the transformative potential of ISTDP in restoring agency and empowerment to individuals. By bridging emotional and physical healing, this episode illuminates the holistic approach necessary for comprehensive therapy, emphasizing the integration of diverse therapeutic practices. The engaging discourse provides compelling insights into therapy's transformative power, underscoring the importance of understanding and integrating our emotional landscapes.
Bios and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at [email protected].
Aspasia Karageorge, Psy.D., is a registered clinical psychologist with a Doctorate of Clinical Psychology and Master of Science from the University of Sydney, as well as a Master's degree in forensic psychology from the University of Otago in New Zealand. Discover more about Aspasia through her website, and stay updated on her work by following her on YouTube and on Instagram.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X
Resources:
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
VOICECRAFT
Quotes:
"ISTDP stands for Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a therapy developed by Dr. Davanloo in the 60s. Essentially, it views chronic pain as a defense against emotional experience." - Aspasia Karageorge [00:06:00]
"Socialization of pain and how our narrative bias is driving a lot of this... the narrative bias coming from the early childhood experiences, and that providing the bias to what we are thinking, giving us a filter of how we are then relating to these things as we go forward in life." - Terri Dentry [00:38:04]
“Modeling goes deeper in the brain than propositions.” - John Vervaeke [00:59:20]
Glossary of Terms:
ISTDP: Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a form of therapy focusing on emotional experience.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction: Unpacking Emotions, Chronic Pain, and Rationality in Therapy
00:10:00 - Exploring the Socialization of Pain and Emotion's Role
00:15:00 - ISTDP and the Emotional Landscape: Understanding Pain as Emotional Distraction
00:24:20 - Restoring Agency and Emotional Insight: Pathways to Healing in Psychotherapy
00:43:00 - Integrating Therapies: Towards a Holistic Approach to Emotional and Physical Healing
01:07:20 - Conclusion: Embracing Complexity: Transformative Insights from ISTDP Therapy
-
This episode, first released on the “Into the Impossible” channel with Dr. Brian Keating, brings together the brilliant minds of John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne to discuss the advent of artificial general intelligence and its potential consequences. The conversation starts with the motivations behind major tech figures' drive towards AI development and touches upon the issues of trust, adaptation, and the inherent human susceptibility to self-deception. Vervaeke and Coyne, through their book "Mentoring the Machines: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow," advocate for a nuanced understanding of AI, urging for a mentorship approach to machine development that could ensure AI's alignment with human flourishing. Their dialogue also ventures into the realms of psychology, cognitive science, and the philosophical underpinnings of AI, making a compelling case for the transformative power of AI, not only technologically but also existentially for humanity.
Bios and Links:
Dr. Brian Keating is the Chancellor’s Distinguished Professor of Physics at UC San Diego, specializing in cosmic microwave background research to explore the universe's origins. An acclaimed writer, his book "Losing the Nobel Prize" is an Amazon Editors' favorite. He excels as a public speaker, inventor, and podcaster. Explore more at his website, follow him on Twitter, or watch his insights on YouTube.
Shawn Coyne, creator of Story Grid, brings over three decades of publishing expertise, notably with the Big Five publishers, as an independent publisher, literary agent, and head of Genre Management Inc. Dive into his editing method and explore more at Story Grid.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X
Resources:
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne
Mentoring the Machines: Origins - Part 2: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne
John Vervaeke Video Essay: AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist
Quotes:
"We should really be framing artificial intelligence as a mentoring of intelligent beings who have the capability and potentialities of becoming even perhaps better than we are." - Shawn Coyne [00:05:52]
"It's only when you have genuine intelligence for the actual system or entity itself—an autopoietic system—a system that cares about information because it's taking care of itself in a moment by moment basis. Only then could you have something that would actually care about what's going on—the true, the good, or the beautiful." - John Vervaeke [00:15:05]
Glossary of Terms:
AGI (Artificial General Intelligence): A level of artificial intelligence that can understand, learn, and apply knowledge across a wide range of tasks at a level of competence comparable to or surpassing that of a human.
Relevance Realization: The process by which cognitive beings determine what information is relevant to their goals and what is not.
Autopoiesis: The property of a living system (such as a bacterial cell or a multicellular organism) that allows it to maintain and renew itself.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:45 - The Genesis of "Mentoring the Machines"
00:08:50 - AI, Psychology, and the Alignment Problem
00:16:40 - The Evolution of Editing and Publishing in the AI Era
00:21:00 - Bridging Knowledge and Wisdom
00:29:00 - Einstein, Imagination, and AI's Emotional Depth
00:37:30 - Deciphering Consciousness: AI and the Hard Problem
00:44:40 - Educational Evolution: AI, Pedagogy, and the Future of Teaching
00:53:50 - AI's Impact on Personalized Storytelling
00:58:30 - AI, Psychology, and the Future of Psychotherapy
01:04:20 - Conclusion
-
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke is joined by Terri Dentry and Tim Adalin to discuss their unique perspectives on the intricate journey from chronic pain to insightful healing. The conversation delves into the psychological and existential dimensions that underpin true transformation, emphasizing the importance of dialogical practices and synoptic integration in achieving profound personal growth and understanding. Through a rich dialogue that navigates the nexus between philosophy, psychology, and therapeutic practice, this conversation offers deep insights into the art of healing, the cultivation of wisdom, and the transformative power of human connectivity. It stands as an essential discussion for those seeking to understand the holistic nature of healing and the potential for personal and collective evolution in the face of adversity.
Guest Bio and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at [email protected].
Tim Adalin, founder of Voicecraft, explores the intricate dynamics between participation and transformation. His philosophical inquiry spans metaphysics, consciousness, and identity, underpinning Voicecraft's mission to enrich dialogue on complex modern challenges. You can learn more about Tim Adalin at his website, follow him on YouTube, and on his Substack.
Resources:
Join our new Patreon:
John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
VOICECRAFT
Redefining Healing: The Synergy of Psychedelic Integration and Interprofessional Practice
Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate KinchMere Christianity - C. S. Lewis
Quotes:
"This is not something about this immediate moment of chronic pain requiring a healing process. This is a worldview issue that is happening to all of us from the very start." - Terri Dentry [00:14:22]
"We're trying to get away from some of the fundamental ways in which agency is being implicitly understood or misunderstood in regular medical practice, and restore a proper appreciation of agency." - John Vervaeke [00:09:57]
"Partly what this conversation is pointing to is that there's going to be a different kind of tension essentially immediately experienced when entering into a different relational context." - Tim Adalin [01:11:20]
Glossary of Terms:
Synoptic Integration: The integration of diverse perspectives and modalities to achieve a comprehensive understanding and healing approach.
Interprofessional Practice: Collaboration between practitioners from different disciplines for holistic patient care.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction, Research Background, and the "Seeing More" Project
00:03:50 - Transformational Journeys and the Power of Shared Pain, Vulnerability, and Relationality
00:11:36 - Agency and Relationality in Medical Practice
00:17:09 - Embodying the Meaning Crisis: Trauma, Narratives, and the Healing Process
00:28:43 - The Pivot Problem: Balancing Finitude and Transcendence in the Healing Journey
00:34:03 - Criticisms of Therapy and the Need for a Shared Worldview
00:44:12 - Dialogos and the Philosophical Silk Road Project
00:54:05 - The Significance of Dialogical Reasoning in Daily Life and Medical Interactions
01:03:34 - Building Structures for Belonging and Support: Challenges and Solutions
01:12:36 - Conclusion: Interprofessional Clinics and the Complexity of Shared Decision-Making
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook
-
In this episode, John Vervaeke, Gregg Henriques, Michael Levin, and Justin McSweeny come together to discuss the complexities of consciousness, intelligence, and the human condition. The conversation balances between imagination and empirical evidence, introducing cognitive light cones to frame goal-directed behavior. They explore recursive relevance realization, predictive processing, and mutual modeling to show how our sense of self and our interaction with the world are connected. Addressing the meaning crisis, the discussion acknowledges various forms of intelligence and emphasizes the transformative nature of human experiences. This episode highlights the importance of rethinking how we see ourselves, the ongoing process of self-reconstruction, and the value of interdisciplinary dialogue in deepening our understanding of human existence and consciousness.
Bios and Links:
Gregg Henriques, Ph.D., is a professor of graduate psychology at James Madison University and founder of the Unified Theory of Knowledge. Discover more about Henriques through his website, and follow his insights on Twitter at @henriqgx.
Michael Levin, Ph.D., is a distinguished professor and director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts University, specializing in developmental biology and biophysics. His pioneering research explores the bioelectric patterns that guide growth and form. Explore Levin's groundbreaking work on his lab's website, and follow his latest discoveries on Twitter at @drmichaellevin.
Justin McSweeny is the visionary host of the Idea Cast Interview Series, where he facilitates thought-provoking discussions on a wide array of intellectual topics. Access episodes on his YouTube channel, and connect with him for updates on LinkedIn.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X
Resources:
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
Transcendent Naturalism Ep. 1 | Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques
The Elusive I - Part 1 - The Cognitive Science Show
Levin, M. (2019). The Computational Boundary of a “Self”: Developmental Bioelectricity Drives Multicellularity and Scale-Free Cognition. Frontiers in Psychology, 10. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.02688
Vervaeke, J., Lillicrap, T. P., & Richards, B. A. (2009, October 26). Relevance Realization and the Emerging Framework in Cognitive Science. Journal of Logic and Computation. https://doi.org/10.1093/logcom/exp067
Transformative Experience - L. A. Paul
Quotes:
"What biology does is assumes that you can't just learn the structure of the past. You have to make problem-solving agents." - Michael Levin [00:39:10]
"When you're modeling the world, you're always, to some degree, modeling yourself, and as you're modeling yourself, you're always, to some degree, modeling the world. The two are interpenetrating." - John Vervaeke [00:16:30]
Glossary of Terms:
Cognitive Light Cone: A conceptual framework used to describe the spatial and temporal limits of an entity's cognition, determining what it can perceive and influence.
Relational Frame Theory (RFT): A theory of human language and cognition that focuses on how humans learn and how language interacts with cognition.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction and the Balance Between Imaginal and Empirical
00:02:00 - Understanding Complexification through Layered Ontology
00:04:30 - The Evolution of Goal-Directed Behavior and Cognitive Light Cones
00:12:30 - Recursive Relevance, Predictive Processing, and Mutual Modeling
00:30:00 - Addressing the Crisis of Meaning through Diverse Intelligence
00:38:00 - Transformative Experiences: Reconstructing Self and Reality
00:52:00 - Rationality, Dialogical Self, and Evolutionary Perspectives
01:16:00 - Conclusion: Interdisciplinary Dialogue and Final Reflections
-
In this episode of ”Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke continues his ongoing exploration of Internal Family Systems (IFS) theory with psychotherapist, clinician, and researcher Kasra Mirzaie. Kasra shares his insights into the cognitive, existential, and spiritual aspects of IFS, highlighting its potential to help individuals make sense of their inner conflicts, regulate emotions, and resolve developmental psychopathology. With a focus on dialectic, mythos, and serious play, Kasra explains how IFS can help individuals forge and come into contact with different aspects of their being and identity, promoting healing and transformation. Throughout the conversation, John and Kasra explore the philosophical and spiritual dimensions of IFS and how it can be integrated with other therapeutic approaches to promote participatory knowing, self-transcendence, and a deeper understanding of the self. Delving into poignant examples and transformative insights, the conversation illuminates the profound impact of embracing our multiplicity through IFS, offering listeners a pathway to understanding and healing that transcends traditional therapeutic boundaries.
Guest Bio and Links:
Kasra Mirzaie is a psychotherapist, researcher, and educator with a focus on emotion regulation and developmental psychopathology. Kasra brings a unique perspective to the discussion, combining clinical experience with a deep interest in philosophical psychology and meaning-making processes.
Join our new Patreon:
John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
Voices with Vervaeke:
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch
Many Minds, One Self: Evidence for a Radical Shift in Paradigm - Richard C. Schwartz
Phenomenological Bioethics: Medical Technologies, Human Suffering, and the Meaning of Being Alive - Fredrik Svenaeus
Thomas Fuchs:
In Defence of the Human Being: Foundational Questions of an Embodied Anthropology
Ecology of the Brain: The phenomenology and biology of the embodied mind (International Perspectives in Philosophy and Psychiatry)
Somatic Internal Family Systems Therapy: Awareness, Breath, Resonance, Movement, and Touch in Practice--Endorsed by top experts in therapeutic healing modalities - Susan McConnell
Simurgh: A Journey in Search of the Truth - Azar Aryanpour
Quotes:
“My take on IFS is that it's actually a model of the living, in self-organizing psyche that is composed of living things. Those interact with each other in a certain qualitative space and relationship that we would call the self.” - Kasra Mirzaie [00:05:09]
“The body is really fundamental to keeping us anchored to the world... if we train the mind to properly listen, it can act as a significant counterbalance to spiritual bypassing and hubristic self-deception." - John Vervaeke, paraphrasing Merleau-Ponty [01:13:45]
Glossary of Terms:
Internal Family Systems (IFS): A therapeutic approach that recognizes and addresses multiple sub-personalities or parts within each individual.
The Imaginal: A concept referring to a creative and transformative space that goes beyond mere imagination, facilitating deep healing and self-discovery.
Chapters:
[00:00:00] - Introduction to Kasra Mirzaie: Insights into Psychotherapy, Research, and IFS
[00:08:18] - Enhancing Self-Awareness: Salience, Perspective-Taking, and the Journey Within
[00:17:38] - Bridging Kant and Vervaeke: Participatory Knowing and the Self in IFS
[00:30:29] - Mythos and Identity: Cultural Echoes and the Role of the Imaginal in Healing
[00:42:43] - IFS and Modern Psychotherapy: Addressing Mental Health and Meaning
[00:53:29] - Socratic Integration in IFS: Bridging Reflection and Healing Within a Pedagogical Framework
[01:07:13] - Addressing Self-Deception in IFS: Integrating Embodiment and Community Feedback
[01:14:42] - Conclusion: Reflecting on IFS, Philosophy, and the Journey Ahead
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook
-
Dive deeper into the transformative journey with John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall as they continue their exploration into faith, meaning, and the power of Dialogos. This second part of their conversation delves into the evolution of Christianity, the limitations of the scientific worldview, and the urgent meta-crisis that beckons a collective awakening. Through a blend of philosophical depth and actionable insight, John and Jordan navigate the realms of relationality, the potential of imaginal engagement, and the intricate pathways toward spiritual and intellectual enrichment. This episode is a testament to the transformative potential of deep, respectful dialogue in uncovering nuanced understandings and fostering growth on both personal and collective levels.
Guest Bio and Links:
Jordan Hall is a technology entrepreneur with several years of experience building disruptive companies. He is interested in philosophy, artificial intelligence, and complex systems and has a background in law. Hall has worked for several technology companies and was the founder and CEO of DivX. He is currently involved in various think tanks and institutes and is focused on upgrading humanity's capacity for thought and action.
Listeners can learn more about Jordan on his YouTube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv_-YZVtE7MQ his Medium, https://medium.com/deep-code, and on Twitter, @greenhall
Resources:
Join our new Patreon:
John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
Mentioned Conversations:
Faith in Dialogue: Exploring Christian Virtues in a Diverse World with Jordan Hall Part 1
The Religion of Tomorrow | Transcendent Naturalism #11 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall
Practical Eschatology | Transcendent Naturalism #12 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall
Embodiment and the Metacrisis with Rafe Kelley
Books, Articles, and Publications:
The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - Adam Frank, Marcelo Gleiser, Evan Thompson
The Mind of Whitehead: Adventure in Ideas - Roland Faber
Depths As Yet Unspoken - Roland Faber, Andrew M Davis
Hall, J. (2018, November 8). An inquiry concerning science and religion. Medium.
Quotes:
"The scientific worldview requires that you step away from the experiment, observe as an objective fact, and then coordinate with other potential subjects on an increasing precision of your ability to articulate facts about objective reality." - Jordan Hall [00:17:40]
“Understanding faith as belief is inadequate. Trying to understand what science does as just the propositional manipulation of belief is wrong for all kinds of reasons.” - John Vervaeke [00:46:48]
Glossary of Terms:
Meta-Crisis: The complex, interwoven crises threatening global civilization and human flourishing.
Scientific Worldview: The perspective that emphasizes empirical evidence and rational analysis, often overshadowing subjective and experiential knowledge.
Chapters:
[00:00:00] - Introduction and Recap of Dialogos
[00:03:15] - Navigating the Meta-Crisis: Beyond the Scientific Worldview
[00:10:40] - Meta-Crisis, Scientific Worldview, and Christianity's Transformation
[00:19:11] - Dissecting First-Person Experience in a Third-Person Dominated Culture
[00:22:38] - The Influence of Simulated Perception and Cartesian Dualism
[00:32:20] - Bridging Intelligibility, Science, and Spirituality
[00:44:58] - Overcoming Conflicts: Science, Religion, and Propositional Tyranny
[00:59:00] - The Virtue of Humility and the Balance of Finitude and Transcendence
[01:06:00] - Parental Love: Divine Relations and Agency
[01:22:25] - Humility and Embodiment: Towards Communal Being
[01:32:02] - Conclusion: Friendship and Future Conversations
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook
-
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch join host John Vervaeke to explore the intersection of chronic pain, dialog, reasoning, and socio-technology ethics. Drawing from Nate's personal experience with chronic pain and his background in organizational design, the conversation delves into the challenges corporations face in exhibiting benevolence and integrity, the biopsychosocial nature of trust, and the importance of understanding one's perspective in navigating chronic pain journeys. The discussion also highlights the need for a shift in language and models to better understand and address chronic pain, as well as the potential of the 4E model in changing the conversation. With a focus on empowering individuals and fostering equal partnerships in dialogue, this episode encourages listeners to share their lived experiences and contribute to a transformative understanding of chronic pain.
Guest Bio and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience.
Nathan Kinch, a sociotechnology ethicist, combines personal passion with a decade of experience in leading global transformations, focusing on ethics and trustworthiness within organizations. His work emphasizes aligning practices with core values and fostering environments of trust.
Listeners can learn more about:
Terri Dentry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terridentry/.
Nate Kinch at his website, http://www.trustworthyby.design/ on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathankinch/ and on his Substack, https://trustworthy.substack.com/
Resources:
Join our new Patreon:
John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation
The Vervaeke Foundation
Awaken to Meaning
VOICECRAFT
Kinch, N. (2023, December). What's trust got to do with it? The RSA.
Kinch, N. (2023, October). Three reasons why AI ethics is struggling The RSA.
Sull, D., Sull, C., & Chamberlain, A. (2020). When It Comes to Culture, Does Your Company Walk the Talk? ResearchGate.
A Spirit of Trust: A Reading of Hegel’s Phenomenology - Robert B. Brandom
Quotes:
"My work is defined as sociotechnology ethics. I examine the relationship between our values, various aspects of the civilizational stack, and how we design different technologies. This covers a wide range of areas, including machine learning, AI, synthetic biology, and medical and clinical contexts." - Nate Kinch [00:02:58]
"Part of that journey is very personal, as people must look at how they view their own experiences. We want to help them see how others go through it and learn from their journeys." - Terri Dentry, [00:01:23]
"Thinking of trust primarily as a psychological trait is to fundamentally misunderstand it. " - John Vervaeke [00:16:57]
Glossary of Terms:
Biopsychosocial Model: An approach to healthcare that integrates biological, psychological, and social factors.
Chapters:
[00:00:00] - Overview and Introduction to Guests Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch
[00:04:20] - Navigating the Complex Terrain of Trust, Transformation, and Ethical Re-architecture in Modern Organizations
[00:34:40] - Bridging Dialogues: Empowerment and Understanding in Healthcare and Beyond
[00:48:41] - Nate’s Personal Journey of Healing and Discovery
[01:07:13] - Beyond Healing: Integrating Spirituality and Meaning
[01:18:00] - Concluding Thoughts: Wisdom, Healing, and Collective Insight
Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook
-
In this episode, first released on the “Transfigured” YouTube channel, John Vervaeke and Sam Tideman explore the future of AI, grappling with ethical, philosophical, and spiritual questions surrounding the creation of 'AI sages.' Delving into the nature of wisdom, they consider whether machines can truly comprehend truth, goodness, and beauty. As they examine embodiment, purpose, and socio-cultural context, Vervaeke and Tideman ponder if AI can become wise and understand vastly different minds. From historical sage archetypes to AI cults, they tackle complex technology and morality intersections, even venturing into AI's role in spiritual realms. Join us for a profound reflection on imbuing AI with wisdom and the existential risks and opportunities ahead.
Sam Tideman, an accomplished healthcare data scientist with an MS in Biostatistics, blends his analytical acumen with a passion for theology in his podcast, "Transfigured." The podcast features long-form discussions exploring the identity of Jesus, reflecting Sam's unique intersection of scientific expertise and spiritual inquiry.
Glossary of Terms
Silicon Sages: Hypothetical AI entities that have achieved a state of enlightenment
Molokian Forces: Forces that manipulate and control AI development for their own purposes
Resources
John Vervaeke
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Sam Tideman
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg7Ed0lecvko58ibuX1XHng
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
John Vervaeke YouTube
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ
Delving into the Frontiers of Artificial General Intelligence with Sam Tideman https://youtu.be/TxZdwrjM96I?si=jCiREippX66rM-Lx
Wisdom in the Age of AI: A Philosophical Quest with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Schindler https://youtu.be/r3VXcPK7fG8?si=7hLit5JWo_cnFJ9j
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth
History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps https://www.historyofphilosophy.net/
Personification: Using the Dialogical Self in Psychotherapy and Counselling - John Rowan https://www.amazon.com/Personification-Using-Dialogical-Psychotherapy-Counselling/dp/0415433460
Many Minds, One Self: Evidence for a Radical Shift in Paradigm - Richard C. Schwartz https://www.amazon.com/Many-Minds-One-Self-Evidence/dp/0692957340
The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession - Robert Falconer https://www.amazon.com/Others-Within-Us-Internal-Possession/dp/B0C12JXVBJ
Quotes
"I want to convey that I am of the firm conviction that my proposal has risks in it. I don't want to pretend that there's some sort of dewy-eyed optimism here. I'm making a proposal that I think is sort of the best that can be made within otherwise hellacious alternatives." - John Vervaeke [00:02:39]
“If you don't put the ability to care about self-deception and motivated self-correction into these machines, they will fall prey to the fact that intelligence is only weakly predictive of rationality.” - John Vervaeke [00:17:47]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction
[00:01:20] - The Possibility of AI Sages and Conjuring AI Demons
[00:04:40] - Thresholds and Decision Points in AI Development
[00:09:20] - Enlightened AI and the True, Good, and Beautiful
[00:13:37] - Preconditions for Helping AI Become More Wise
[00:19:40] - The Importance of Embodiment and Purpose in AI
[00:28:00] - Autopoiesis and Normative Orientation in AI
[00:33:20] - Wisdom as a Niche-independent or Context-dependent Concept
[00:38:20] - Communicating with an Artificial Intelligence
[00:46:20] - Silicon Sages as Great Teachers
[00:50:00] - Trusting the Silicon Sages
[00:56:31] - Preventing Malicious Use of AI and Cult Leaders
[01:05:20] - AI Interaction with Higher Spiritual Beings
[01:14:20] - The Increasing Importance of Theology in the Future
-
In this episode, first released on Seth Dellinger's Move with Seth YouTube channel, John Vervaeke, Ken Manheimer, and Seth Dellinger explore the concept of "ecology of practices" through the lens of contact improvisation. They discuss the modern "meaning crisis" caused by societal disconnect and fragmentation, advocating for shared agency and transjective participation to address these issues. Manheimer's experience in contact improvisation reveals its potential for co-creation and mutual discovery, emphasizing the need to extend rationality beyond traditional bounds. This conversation showcases contact improvisation as a vital practice for fostering sacred participation and confronting the meaning crisis.
Seth Dellinger is a movement practitioner, embodied dialogue facilitator, and the host of the Move with Seth podcast. He is passionate about cultivating presence, empathy, and meaningful connections through mindful movement and conversation.
Ken Manheimer is a long-time practitioner and coordinator of contact improvisation in Washington, D.C. He is also a computer programmer with a deep interest in the intersection of movement, dialogue, and personal growth. Ken is dedicated to fostering community and exploring the transformative potential of shared experiences.
Glossary of Terms
Ecology of Practices: A framework for understanding the coordinated use of diverse practices to enhance cognitive flexibility and combat self-deception.
Contact Improvisation: A dance practice emphasizing physical interaction and mutual responsiveness without predetermined steps or movements.
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Seth Dellinger:
Website: https://sethdellinger.com/
Ken Manheimer:
Website: https://myriadicity.net/
Resources
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
John Vervaeke YouTube
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ
Vervaeke, J., & Mastropietro, C. (2021). Dialectic into Dialogos and the Pragmatics of No-thingness in a Time of Crisis. Eidos. A Journal for Philosophy of Culture, 5(2), 58-77. https://eidos.uw.edu.pl/dialectic-into-dialogos-and-the-pragmatics-of-no-thingness-in-a-time-of-crisis/
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2018). The Experience of Presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. Presence: Teleoperators and Virtual Environments, 27(4), 400-409. https://doi.org/10.1162/pres_a_00337
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2020). The enactment of shared agency in teams exploring Mars through rovers. Phenomenology and the Cognitive Sciences, 1-25.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11097-021-09791-6
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2021). Distributed cognition and the experience of presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. Frontiers in Psychology, 12. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.689932
East Coast Contact Improv Jam - https://eastcoastjam.com/
Contact Quarterly. (2022, November 5). Magnesium (1972): Official Trailer [Video]. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gEfVJBhwrQ
Homsher, S., & Humphrey, J. (n.d.). Steve Homsher and Jess Humphrey in a playful contact improvisation [Video]. YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOmuDF1C5g&t=0s
Quotes
"The basic idea behind the Ecology of Practice is...a way of trying to deal with...our cognition, which isn't just our knowing, it's our entire sense-making apparatus." - John Vervaeke [00:03:20]
"Contact improvisation...it's an experiential thing that you do in a deep way with someone else where neither person is leading." - Ken Manheimer [00:09:14]
"Participatory knowing is the deepest grounding kind of knowing that makes all the other kinds of knowing possible." - John Vervaeke [00:15:00]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction
[00:03:00] - Exploring the Ecology of Practices
[00:09:14] - Contact Improvisation and Participation
[00:23:00] - Merging Verbal and Non-verbal Communication: Integrating Communication Modes
[00:33:00] - Shared Agency and Practice Intimacy
[00:43:00] - The Meaning Crisis and Falling in Love with Being
[00:55:00] - Exploring Rationality Beyond Logic: Insights from Cognitive Science and Buddhism
-
In this episode, John Vervaeke, Robert Gray, and Eric Orwell explore the intricacies of Plotinus, Neo-Platonism, and pure relationality. They meticulously analyze James Filler's thought-provoking paper, viewing its ideas through Heidegger's philosophy and the essence of language. The concept of pure relationality and its impact on our understanding of reality is thoroughly examined, highlighting key themes such as the One, sacredness, and ethical dimensions. Diverse perspectives are brought into dialogue, and traditional views are critically assessed, as the guests reconstruct philosophical concepts for the contemporary world. The episode offers both grounding exercises and detailed analysis, taking listeners on a journey through ancient wisdom to discover its relevance in addressing today's challenges.
Eric Orwoll is a Christian Platonist philosopher and the creator of the Understanding Platonism and Aarvoll YouTube channels.
Robert Gray is the creator of The Meditating Philosopher YouTube channel.
Glossary of Terms
Relational Ontology: The philosophical study that posits relations rather than substances as the fundamental constituents of reality.
Neoplatonism: A philosophical system that emphasizes the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of reality, drawing on Plato's ideas.
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Eric Orwoll
YouTube:
Understanding Plato: https://www.youtube.com/@understandingplato1134/
Aarvoll: https://www.youtube.com/@ericorwoll/
X: https://twitter.com/aarvoll_
Robert Gray
Email: [email protected]
YouTUbe: www.youtube.com/@TheMeditatingPhilosopher
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
John Vervaeke YouTube
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ
Books, Articles, and Publications
The One as Pure Relation in Plotinus - Filler, James (2019). International Journal of the Platonic Tradition https://brill.com/view/journals/jpt/13/1/article-p1_1.xml
Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being: Relation as Ontological Ground - James Filler
https://www.amazon.com/dp/3031309065
The Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe: A New Kind of Reality Theory - Christopher Langan https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Theoretic-Model-Universe-Reality-Theory/dp/0971916225
Essential Difference: Toward a Metaphysics of Emergence - James Blachowicz https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Difference-Toward-Metaphysics-Emergence/dp/1438443323
Quotes
"It reminded me of the attitude towards language in the Platonic dialogues, where Socrates moves into something more poetic, almost verse. There's that shift between prosaic, dialectical investigation and mytho-poetic, dreamlike exposition. That's interesting; I've identified those mythic sections often contain the deepest insights about the nature of reality." - Eric Orwoll [00:07:06]
"It helped to explain how and why those two are non logically one. That gave me a profound aha. Then, the critique of substance in the Aristotelian sense, where the subject predicate nature of logic and language is the same fundamental structure of reality, reality is made up of independently existing things that contain properties or enter into action." - John Vervaeke [00:16:00]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction and Grounding Exercise
[00:03:20] - Overview of James Filler's Work
[00:08:20] - Theological Poetic Language and Plato's Ontology
[00:12:40] - Hemispheric Approaches to Reasoning
[00:14:07] - John's Personal and Philosophical Reflections on Filler's Work
[00:20:08] - Dissecting Filler's Arguments: Exegesis and Ontological Inquiry
[00:30:20] - Revisiting Relationality and Unity: Ethical and Ontological Nuances
[00:46:00] - Navigating Reality: From Illusion to Sacredness
[00:52:56] - Tradition and Global Spirituality
[01:04:56] - Bridging Metaphysical Necessity and Cognitive Pluralism
[01:15:08] - A Philosophical Inquiry into Forms and Instantiations
[01:23:18] - Final Thoughts and Future Conversations
-
In their second dialogue on "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Vivian Dittmar explore transrational thought, emotions, and transformative practices, embarking on a profound journey into human experience. Vivian introduces a map of five distinct sensations, illuminating the practice of conscious release for personal growth, emotional maturity, and integrating higher consciousness with shadow aspects. Their discussion delves into pre-rational, rational, and transrational modes of thought, emphasizing the importance of integrating various forms of thinking to navigate modern cognitive landscapes effectively. This intellectual and experiential exploration offers valuable perspectives on human consciousness, emotional work, and the potential of transrational thought to enrich our self-understanding and worldview.
Vivian Dittmar, a globally influenced author, speaker, and wisdom teacher, has dedicated two decades to enhancing holistic development. Her diverse upbringing inspired her to explore beyond conventional education, delving into various cultures' wisdom. Through her books and the Be the Change Foundation, Dittmar seeks to redefine prosperity, focusing on emotional intelligence, ecological sustainability, social justice, and spiritual fulfillment, aiming to address the crises facing modern society.
Glossary of Terms
Transrational: Going beyond or surpassing human reason or the rational; nonverbal; nonlinear; abstract.
Pre-rational: Preceding the development of intelligence.
Rational: A state of consciousness characterized by logical, linear, and verbal thinking.
Conscious Release: A practice developed by Vivian Dittmar that fosters the integration of higher states of consciousness with shadow aspects.
John Vervaeke
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Vivian Dittmar
Website: https://viviandittmar.com
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@viviandittmareng
Resources:
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
Voices with Veraeke: Exploring Emotions and Transrational Wisdom with Vivian Dittmar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQWLfOFe0lo
The Emotional Backpack: How to release unhealthy feelings - Vivian Dittmar https://viviandittmar.net/en/the-emotional-backpack-book/
Your Inner GPS: Find Clarity with the Five Ways of Thinking - Vivian Dittmar https://viviandittmar.net/en/your-inner-gps-book/
Workshop: “How Big Is Your Emotional Backpack?” https://signup.lebensweise.net/free-backpack-workshop
Online Course: “The Emotional Backpack” ► https://campus.lebensweise.net/o/the-emotional-backpack-online-course/
Rational Intuition: Philosophical Roots, Scientific Investigations - Lisa Osbeck, Barbara Held https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Intuition-Philosophical-Scientific-Investigations/dp/1316621219
Quotes
"One of the things that became really clear to me is that the transrational by nature has a very difficult stance in today's world because it speaks to us in a way that is nonverbal, nonlinear, abstract." - Vivian Dittmar [00:16:00]
“The ancient world had a whole faculty and term for nous and noesis, and that was all lost with the loss of our Neoplatonic heritage." - John Vervaeke [00:16:18]
"We have a transrational faculty that is also proactive, that is not receptive, and that's intention. It’s really challenging for people to understand in our cultural framework because we very quickly confuse intention with a goal." - Vivian Dittmar [00:57:43]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction and Overview of the Poly Crisis and Emotional Intelligence
[00:04:00] - Differentiating Sensations, Emotions, and Consciousness
[00:11:13] - Pre-rational, Rational, and Transrational Distinctions
[00:25:00] - Intuition, Inspiration, and Transrational Wisdom
[00:38:45] - Heart Intelligence
[00:47:50] - Reevaluating Rationality and Embracing Intuitive Integration for Decision-Making
[00:56:17] - Intention and Shaping Agency in Transrational Knowing
[01:03:40] - Bridging Phenomenology, Transrational, and Transpersonal Dialogues
-
John Vervaeke and Seth Allison revisit the transformative realm of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, building on their enriching dialogues from previous sessions. They unpack the intricate dynamics between the "self" and its various "parts," shedding light on how these elements can be harmonized for deep self-reflection and healing. The dialogue includes valuable insights and clarifications from Richard Schwartz, the creator of IFS, reinforcing the framework's compatibility with traditional psychological methods and its efficacy for safely navigating the inner self. The conversation evolves to explore the role of IFS in addressing the existential questions posed by the modern meaning crisis, highlighting its significance in cultivating wisdom and integrating the psychological with the spiritual. This episode stands as a testament to the synergy between cognitive science and philosophical inquiry, inviting listeners on a journey toward enlightenment, emotional resilience, and a richer engagement with their internal landscape.
Seth Allison is a renowned psychotherapist specializing in internal family systems (IFS) and its integration with traditional psychotherapy. With years of clinical practice, Seth brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the conversation, offering valuable insights into the therapeutic journey.
Glossary of Terms
IFS (Internal Family Systems): A psychotherapeutic model that identifies and interacts with various sub-personalities or parts within each person's mental system.
Sapiential - relating to wisdom
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Seth Allison:
Website: Grow Collective - https://www.growcollective.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seth-allison-13abb811b/
Related Resources
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession - Robert Falconer
https://www.amazon.com/Others-Within-Us-Internal-Possession/dp/B0C12JXVBJ/
John Vervaeke on Mystical Experience and the Pursuit of Wisdom - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5_YRWrX3mw
Quotes
"We have a moral obligation to ask what is a proper framework to bring to bear upon these experiences so that people can metabolize them and realize them as the cultivation of virtue and wisdom, and not spin them off into narcissism or inflation and go down rabbit holes of their own personal magical metaphysics." - Seth Allison (Quoting John Vervaeke) [00:37:16]
"It is more important, and the integration is in both of those dimensions. How well does it integrate with many domains broadly and deeply in your life? How well does it transform many levels, broadly and deeply, of the psyche? That's the integration. Our culture gives us precious little on both of those, and even more importantly, not only both of them, but how they are properly coordinated and speak to each other in a self-correcting fashion." - John Vervaeke [00:32:06]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction and Background on IFS
[00:01:00] - Corrections and Insights from Richard Schwartz
[00:06:00] - Deep Dive into IFS Concepts
[00:14:45] - Addressing the Modern Meaning Crisis
[00:18:00] - Spiritual Rediscovery and Transformation
[00:40:00] - IFS Practice Session
[01:14:00] - Reflecting on the Session's Impact
[01:33:10] - Closing Reflections and Workshop Announcement
-
Join John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall on a thought-provoking journey into faith and meaning. Beyond mere intellectual debate, they delve into the heart of Christian virtues, the transformative potential of the imaginal, and the profound depths of dialogue. Through their respectful and insightful exchange, they navigate complex themes such as love, relationality, and the richness of the imaginal realm, illuminating how engagement with diverse spiritual traditions can deepen understanding and faith. John and Jordan provide actionable insights for personal and collective growth, presenting an open invitation for introspection of beliefs, fostering an environment for meaningful engagement, and unlocking the potential for true transformation. This conversation offers a unique opportunity to discover the complexities of faith and meaning, along with pathways to enrich spiritual and intellectual lives.
Jordan Hall, a pioneering figure at the forefront of societal transformation, co-founded MP3.com and DivX, catalyzing revolutions in music and online video. His ventures, such as Neurohacker Collective and Civium Project, harness cutting-edge technology and deep philosophical insights to address the metacrisis facing humanity. Currently, as Executive Chairman of Qualia Lifesciences, he leads efforts in human optimization, embodying the ethos of the fellowship of the spirit and inspiring profound dialogues on reimagining the future.
Glossary of Terms
Dialogos: A form of dialogue aimed at transcending mere conversation to reach deeper understanding and connection.
Imaginal: Pertaining to a mode of perception that transcends the purely sensory, engaging with symbols and the deeper aspects of reality.
Christian Virtues: Fundamental qualities valued in Christianity, such as faith, hope, and love.
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Jordan Hall
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv_-YZVtE7MQ
Medium: https://medium.com/deep-code
X: https://twitter.com/jgreenhall?lang=en
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
Books, Articles, Videos, and Publications
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
The Courage to Be - Paul Tillich https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Paul-Tillich/dp/0300084714
Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Darkness-Joseph-Conrad/dp/1936594145
Boden, Margaret. (2009). Creativity in a nutshell. Think. 5. 83-96. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/209436199_Creativity_in_a_nutshell
The Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis John Vervaeke, Iain McGilchrist, Daniel Schmachtenberger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7i1ughRGcQ
Embodiment and the Metacrisis with Rafe Kelley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJztMRSeek&t=307s
Quotes
"Make ourselves vehicles and instruments, both. That's something that's capable both of holding and expressing. So, I am the life and the light, and I am the way. Not the destination, not the end of the journey, but the way." - Jordan Hall [00:44:11]
"The invitation to take up your cross and bear it, to step through the crucifixion of the human nature, must, in fact, be voluntarily self-crucified, and human will must surrender itself into a sort of a divine coupling. That's the stepping through of the win-lose into the win-win." - Jordan Hall [01:20:00]
Chapters
00:03:00 - Christian Virtues and the Imaginal: A Journey into Spiritual Depth
00:20:00 - The Power of Transformative Dialogue: Unity and Deepening Faith
00:28:00 - Bridging Divides: The Quest for Global Unity and Transcendent Communication
00:52:00 - Faith's Duality: Wholesomeness Versus Completeness
01:05:00 - Encountering Sacredness: Reflections on Faith and Community
01:24:20 - Upcoming Dialogue: Non-Rivalrous Christianity, Religio, and the Fellowship of the Spirit
-
John Vervaeke and Rafe Kelley join forces to explore the profound connection between movement, nature, and personal growth. Kelley, a movement educator, reveals his "Ecology of Practices," a unique blend of parkour, martial arts, and nature-based movement designed to cultivate a holistic wisdom practice. Discover the transformative power of movement as it pushes physical boundaries, fosters environmental connection, and opens doors to personal evolution. Learn how Kelley integrates philosophy to build a wisdom practice that resonates not just in the mind, but deep within the body itself. Explore the challenges and rewards of connecting with nature through movement, and gain valuable insights into the future of movement culture and its potential to impact individuals and communities alike. This episode offers a thought-provoking journey for athletes, beginners, and anyone seeking deeper meaning, leaving you eager to explore the transformative power of movement in your own life.
Rafe Kelley, founder of Evolve Move Play, pioneers a unique movement philosophy, merging parkour with martial arts and a deep connection to nature, fostering a holistic wisdom practice. With over two decades of teaching experience, he offers transformative retreats, workshops, and online courses worldwide. His work emphasizes the synergy between body, psyche, and environment, inviting exploration of personal potential and the sacred in movement.
Glossary of Terms
Ecology of Practices: A set of activities or habits that a group of people commit to doing together.
Parkour: A discipline focused on navigating obstacles efficiently and creatively.
Movement Culture: A broad approach to physical training that incorporates elements from various disciplines for holistic development.
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Rafe Kelley
Website: https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/rafekelley
X: https://twitter.com/rafekelley
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
John Vervaeke YouTube
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ
Quotes
"Discipline ultimately means to follow, and you don't discipline punitively; you discipline something by getting it oriented to something that it wants to follow. That's an important idea." - [01:26:20] John Vervaeke
"Parkour invites you to fall in love with your experience of being by opening up new affordances in how you perceive and experience the world, bringing joy and the potential for the flow state." - [01:41:00] Rafe Kelley
"If we want to solve the meaning crisis and the meta crisis, we have to fall more in love with being. And that's not something we can do just through dialogue. It's something we have to embody." - [01:43:20] Rafe Kelley
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction and Background of Rafe Kelley
[00:02:20] - Return to the Source Retreat Experience
[07:50:00] - The Essence of Movement Practice
[00:21:00] - Challenges and Transformations Through Movement
[00:53:10] - The Role of Community and Teaching in Movement
[01:07:05] - Integrating Philosophy and Movement
[01:25:28] - Future Directions for Movement Culture
- Näytä enemmän
