Episodit
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This week I spoke to Moon Juice founder and CEO Amanda Chantal Bacon. Amanda, as it says in the PR email I received, “has a captivating personal story that led her to create her company,” but we barely touched on that in this conversation. Instead we had a candid conversation that began with talking about shame and a book (All Fours). And spanned to finding love later, aging, mourning past life phases, intergenerational friendship, and the myth of balance. I found this to be a very comforting conversation from start to finish; she was so wise and easygoing that I left feeling like I'd just hung up with a good friend.
Despite the fact that I’ve been a fan of her products for over a decade, use her face wash daily, and credit her Beauty Pills for keeping my acne in check—we didn’t even talk about her her company origin story, or even one of her specific products. Next time. Let us know what you think eavesdropping.
Show notes:
- Find Amanda on Instagram
- Shop Moon Juice & use code LETITOUT for 15% off sitewide!
- Book: All Fours by Miranda July
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- PIVOT zine: sign up for my paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 212: Lacy Phillips of Free & Native on Situational Magnetism, Subconscious Beliefs, Body Image, Style, Authenticity + much more
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This is the second half of my conversation with one of my favorite authors, Melissa Broder. She is the author of several novels, the essay collection So Sad Today, and five poetry collections. She's appeared in the New York Times, Elle, Harper's Bazaar, VICE, and New York Magazine.
In Part 2, we talk about grief, losing a parent, writing her most recent novel Death Valley, our favorite grocery stores, how to tell people what’s going on in the midst of a changing and challenging situation, finding humor, the messiness of bodies and aging, advice to write consistently, the journal prompts she uses daily, and questions from a previous guest.
If you missed Part 1 last week, we talked about about everything from wellness culture and mental health to limerence, long-term relationships, and her writing process.
Show notes:
- Find Melissa on Instagram
- Her books: So Sad Today, Milk Fed, The Pisces, Superdoom, Last Sext & her newest, Death Valley
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- PIVOT zine: sign up for my paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy
- The Self-Compassion workbook Melissa mentions
- Speechify (the text-to-speech app I use to edit my writing)
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 407: Bad Thoughts with Nada Alic (part 2 of 2)
Episode 308: Writing, Feelings & Friendship with Leah Clancy
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Puuttuva jakso?
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This week, I spoke to one of my favorite authors, Melissa Broder. She is the author of several novels, the essay collection So Sad Today, and five poetry collections. She's appeared in the New York Times, Elle, Harper's Bazaar, VICE, and New York Magazine. I’m splitting this one up into two parts…
Today you’ll hear the first half of our conversation where we talked about everything from wellness culture and mental health to limerence, long-term relationships, and her writing process.
Next week, in Part 2, we talk about grief, losing a parent, writing her most recent novel Death Valley, our favorite grocery stores, how to tell people what’s going on in the midst of a changing and challenging situation, finding humor, the messiness of bodies and aging, advice to write consistently, the journal prompts she uses daily, and questions from a previous guest.
Show notes:
- Find Melissa on Instagram
- Her books: So Sad Today, Milk Fed, The Pisces, Superdoom, Last Sext & her newest, Death Valley
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- PIVOT zine: sign up for my paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 406: Bad Thoughts with Nada Alic (part 1 of 2)
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What you’re about to hear is a conversation between writer Verônika Shülman and myself, recorded last week at a party! In honor of the release of my new zine, Pivot, I hosted a party at NOTO and invited all of my friends. It was so nice to be in the same room with everyone after being stuck inside for most of the summer with a broken leg—in that time I had put together this zine, which is about the lessons I learned in the last decade and how I learned them.
My friend and neighbor Verônika hosts this episode. She begins by reading from a book we both love (I Love Dick by Chris Kraus), then reads a bit that she liked from Pivot, and asks me to read an essay from it—which I do. My friends Maddie and Dexter also ask questions and we talk about more writers we love. If you want a copy of Pivot, below is how to get yourself a hard copy.
Show notes:
- Find Verônika on Instagram
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- PIVOT zine: sign up for my paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy
- My book on journaling | WRITE kit
- Check out NOTO!
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 458: Introducing PIVOT with Simi Botic
Episode 423: I Can't Believe I'm Still Doing This...10 Years! With Sacha Jones
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This week, Simi Botic—author, founder of Unmeasured, and my best friend—joins me to talk about PIVOT, a new zine of essays I compiled. After breaking my leg this summer, being stuck inside gave me time to put this together. Simi was the first person I sent it to, partly because she's a character in it and wrote one of the essays with me, and because she's always so gentle and supportive. I don't know how I got so lucky to have her as a friend but I did.
In this, we talked about seeing each other through different phases. And about the uncomfortable feelings that come from revisiting our old work but try to do as Didion advises, "stay on nodding terms" with our past selves. PIVOT is one big nod to my 20's, including all the lessons I learned and the experiences that taught me them. Let us know if you listen.
Show notes:
- PIVOT zine is here - sign up for my paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy | LA launch party on 9/27!
- My book on journaling | WRITE kit
- Find Simi on the Web | Instagram | Podcast
- Simi's class, Unmeasured
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- 5 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 455: Saying What We're Afraid to with Founder R29 & A Tiny Apt. Christene Barberich
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This week I spoke to Neada Deters, founder of the organic skincare range LESSE. We met when she still lived in LA a few years ago so we began this conversation discussing her recent move to NYC, which is a return for her. Neada moved to New York the first time from Australia with a one-way ticket over a decade ago, so we talked about how she made that big decision and many more, including starting out her career in music journalism, working at VICE, and eventually pivoting her beat to beauty writing before eventually starting her skincare line. Inspired by watching her grandmother apply her skincare, Neada gave LESSE the tagline, rituals over routines. We covered her own daily rituals as well as how she spends her days, working with her husband, her advice on romantic relationships, keeping in touch with people far away, and her approach to beauty including where the industry is going and what seeing images of ourselves more than ever before does to our self perception, plus much more. We talked for hours and could’ve continued, let us know if you listen!
Show notes:
- Follow @neadadeters & @lesseofficial
- Shop LESSE organic skincare
- My newsletters on sitting & on voice notes
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- We made a new printed zine! Sign up for the paid Substack & we'll mail you a copy | LA launch party on 9/27!
- 5 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 382: Beauty is Wild: Nadine Artemis on Aging, Vanity, Focus, Change, Living Libations & More
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This week I spoke with Zoë Pawlak, a Vancouver-based artist and industrial designer. After deciding to get sober, she turned to journaling as a way of expression and inner reflection. Soon she married her interests in art and writing to create Vessels and Muses.
In this conversation we cover: breaking traditional norms of what’s possible when you have kids; living an "artist lifestyle"; how what she calls "life quakes" lead to growth; and letting go of what’s no longer working. We also talk a lot about communication, the benefits of directness, community care, how she manages deep friendships while still maintaining a creative practice, and much more. Let us know if you listen!
Show notes:
- Find Zoë on the Web | Instagram | Oracle Deck
- My book on journaling
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 202: Ashley Glynn on Soul Tattoos, Being Embodied, Connection, Slowing Down, Plant Medicine + more
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This week I spoke with the iconic writer and editor Christene Barberich. I first knew of her as the co-founder and editor-in-chief of Refinery29. I’ve loved her work for years, through R29, her own writing, and the podcast she hosted for many years called Unstyled, so when recent guest Erika Veurink connected us, I was thrilled.
We spoke about starting R29 and what that time was like, reflecting on some of her best interviews with everyone from Linda Rodin to Jenny Slate. She also talked about leaving her role there and the excitement of new beginnings. At the root of her newest project, A Tiny Apt., is how the right environment fosters growth, creativity, safety and vulnerability, particularly as that relates to big dramatic change and leaps of faith. She discussed the changes she’s been navigating: becoming a mom later in life; the double standard of aging especially as it relates to work; how she’s redefining success and ambition as she enters this new era of her work and life. I loved getting to talk to her and I’m eager for her to return. Let us know if you listen!
Show notes:
- Find Christene on the Web | Instagram
- Unstyled podcast | A Tiny Apt. substack
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 452 Long Live: Erika Veurink Is Here (Part 1 of 2)
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This week I spoke to President Obama’s Social Secretary, Deesha Dyer. She recently published her memoir, Undiplomatic, which dives into how a hip-hop journalist without credentials, connections, or a college degree conquered imposter syndrome while landing one of the most sought-after positions in the White House. Moved by the election of the country's first Black president, she applied for a White House internship at 31, taking a leap that carried her through being hired in a full-time position that landed her at the epicenter of politics.
I loved her book and was stoked to get to talk to her. We covered: the importance of following curiosity and acting on it, what she learned from spending time with Michelle and Barack Obama, redefining societal timelines, throwing parties at the White House, the Obama years overall, and the connection between pop culture and politics. As well as: the importance of cross-learning in mentorship and having customer service experience. Let us know if you listen!
Show notes:
-Find Deesha on the Web | Instagram
- Deesha's book, Undiplomatic
- NYT article on "medium friends"
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 354 Don't Let It Get You Down: Savala Nolan Returns (part 1)
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This week is the second half of my conversation with secondhand-fashion-obsessed writer Erika Veurink. She’s written everywhere from NY Magazine to Vogue to WSJ, and currently writes the newsletter Long Live. She grew up in Iowa, has lived in NYC for nearly a decade, and recently visited LA so we spoke about how places become part of our identities.
In Part 2, she shares how she met her husband and offers advice on romantic relationships. And of course, personal style, including her go-to outfit. We talk more about her Substack publication, where she covers everything from her advice on scoring vintage gems on Ebay to to body image. I even get an exclusive when I ask if she’d write a Substack on her favorite athletic shorts recs and she shares a few.
If you missed Part 1 last week, we covered spirituality and rest and spoke about writing at length, including her love for the personal essay and how she structures her daily writing practice. Let us know if you listen!
Show Notes:
- Find Erika on Instagram | Web | Substack (Long Live)
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 380: Spoonful of Sugar: Roam Vintage Founder Natasha Zoë Garrett on Finding Purpose and Flow, Role Models, Sobriety and More (Part 2 of 2)
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This week is the first half of my conversation with secondhand-fashion-obsessed writer Erika Veurink. She’s written everywhere from NY Magazine to Vogue to WSJ, and currently writes the newsletter Long Live. She grew up in Iowa, has lived in NYC for nearly a decade, and recently visited LA so we spoke about how places become part of our identities.
In Part 1, she shares how her religious upbringing led to her work ethic and ability to maintain multiple projects and jobs, but also impacted her thoughts on spirituality and rest. We cover writing at length including: her love of the personal essay and why publications are no longer running them, and where she sees the future of that style and media in general. She shares the best writing advice she’s been given and breaks down exactly how she structures her daily writing practice. We cover her Substack publication, where she covers everything from her advice on scoring vintage gems on Ebay to to body image.
Next week in Part 2, we cover how she met her husband and advice on romantic relationships. And of course, personal style, including her go-to outfit. I even get an exclusive when I ask if she’d write a Substack on her favorite athletic shorts recs and she shares a few.
Show Notes:
- Find Erika on Instagram | Web | Substack (Long Live)
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 379: Spoonful of Sugar: Roam Vintage Founder Natasha Zoë Garrett on Finding the Good Within the Challenging, Non-Attachment, Modeling, Mental Health and More (Part 1 of 2)
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This is a conversation with Kerrilynn Pamer, founder of CAP Beauty. It was recorded recently at her kitchen table with the scent of a walnut cake in the oven filling the room. She was first on in 2021 where we talked about starting CAP, cooking, and personal style, and I’ve been dying to have her back ever since. This episode covers updates on topics discussed last time plus we talk about: having a fixed vs. growth mindset, feeling left out, friendship vs. acquaintances, taking a psychological approach to aging, beauty, developing taste, interiors (including how to make your home feel like a supportive friend), and much more. She’s one of my all-time favorite guests. Let us know if you listen!
Show notes:
- CAP Beauty: code LETITOUT for 10% off your order | @capbeautydaily
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack (read the post I mention about eggs here)
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 405: Stacy London is Here for Us: Iconic Stylist & Host on Body Image, Dressing, Career Pivots, Aging, Becoming CEO of Menopause & More
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This is a conversation is with Kerrilynn Pamer, co-founder of the wellness company CAP Beauty. We recorded this at her kitchen table overlooking the mountains drinking espresso. She talks about starting CAP, being in the "unsexy" middle of a project, her love of cooking and sharing food, her evolving personal style, how to build and sustain positive relationships, and a whole lot more. This was recorded in 2022 but I'm re-airing it today because she's returning to the show next week. I recorded a brand new interview with her where we reference some of the topics we discussed here and she gives updates of what happened since, so stay tuned for that next week!
Show notes:
- CAP Beauty: code LETITOUT for 10% off your purchase | @capbeautydaily
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
- Check out Katie's one-on-one Creative Clinic
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This week I spoke to my close friend, chef, author, and screenwriter Phoebe Lapine. She is one of the most creative and self-aware people I know, and I deeply admire her and her work. We met years ago when I interviewed her when her book The Wellness Project came out and then again for her last book which was about SIBO. She has a new cookbook out now, called Carbivore, which I have been learning to cook from. We catch up in this episode about the topic of this new project which is, of course, carbs: we get into what led to carbs being demonized by the diet industry, what sugar and carbs actually mean for our blood sugar, food sequencing, digestion, how overthinking all of this can be damaging, and how we’ve both been on the extreme ends and how to navigate that. Let us know if you listen.
Show notes:
- Phoebe's latest book: Carbivore
- Phoebe's earlier books: SIBO Made Simple | The Wellness Project | In the Small Kitchen
- Connect with Phoebe on The Web | Instagram
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 324: ((happy thank you more please)) cooking, toggling between projects, creativity, friendship, change and laughing hard with Phoebe Lapine
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This week, Jessica Lyda returns. A friend recommended her sessions to me in 2020 and afterward I wanted to know how she got into it and have her share her wisdom here. The way that she works with people is hard to articulate, but she explains it well in this. Jessica has facilitated healing sessions with thousands of different people, from celebrities to therapists to shamans to skeptics to me! She helps you figure out some trapped emotions and how to release those. We also talk about: what to do when nothing is working, how to handle feeing stagnant, toxic relationships, setting boundaries, people-pleasing dynamics, overwhelm, catching ideas, and much more … let us know if you listen…
Show Notes:
- Find Jessica on the Web | Instagram
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- A couple spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 359 - Managing Energy and Healing with Energy Worker Jessica Lyda
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This week is the second part of my conversation with longtime DJ and music producer, Free Oribhabor. He’s also the founder of The Record Club, an immersive album listening experience he hosts monthly in LA. As the LA Times put it, "He wanted to create a music listening experience that replicated the grandiose feeling of sitting in a theater and watching a film with other fans." As you’ll hear in these conversations (and you’ve felt if you’ve danced while he’s DJ-ing or been in the audience while he unpacks a favorite album) his enthusiasm is palpable. In this we not only talk about the origin of The Record Club but also expanding it in the future while maintaining the intimate vision he had for it early on.
In part 2 we talk about how his musical taste has developed, having confidence in one's taste and allowing taste to change, and he also takes questions from friends. If you missed part 1, we covered wormholes and research, being undervalued in education, and making money doing many different things (being a jack-of-all-trades) which can mean that things take longer. Let us know if you listen.
Show Notes:
- Follow Free @yeafree + The Record Club @therecord.club
- LA Times article on The Record Club
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- 2 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 441 - Madelynn De La Rosa Returns (Part 1 of 2) Reinvention, Resolutions, Cinema, etc.
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This week is part 1 of a 2-part conversation I had with longtime DJ and music producer, Free Oribhabor. He’s also the founder of The Record Club, an immersive album listening experience he hosts monthly in LA. As the LA Times put it, "He wanted to create a music listening experience that replicated the grandiose feeling of sitting in a theater and watching a film with other fans." As you’ll hear in these conversations (and you’ve felt if you’ve danced while he’s DJ-ing or been in the audience while he unpacks a favorite album) his enthusiasm is palpable. In this we not only talk about the origin of The Record Club but also expanding it in the future while maintaining the intimate vision he had for it early on.
In part 1 we talk about wormholes and research, being undervalued in education, making money doing many different things (being a jack-of-all-trades) which can mean that things take longer. And in part 2 we get into how his musical taste has developed, having confidence in taste, allowing taste to change, and he takes questions for friends. Let us know if you listen.
Show Notes:
- Follow Free @yeafree + The Record Club @therecord.club
- LA Times article on The Record Club
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- 2 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Jésabel's Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 424 - Perfection Bubbles Burst: Musician Sam Burton on Collaboration, Tarot, Criticism & More
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This week, a conversation with iconic designer Norma Kamali. Recorded over Zoom from her office in Manhattan, we cover her 50-year career, from graduating from FIT with a degree in illustration to working for Northwest Airlines—which allowed her to fly to London on the weekends for only $29. It felt like a time capsule to hear her talk about the cultural revolution in London in the 1960s and how she would bring back pieces for friends, which led her to start a store, and eventually design her own pieces.
Soon her designs were worn by Bianca Jagger, Bette Midler, and Cher. But at 29 Norma left her marriage, which meant walking away from the brand she’d quietly built with only $98 in her pocket. But starting over ultimately led her to create a brand with longevity and panache. From her unique sleeping bag coat design (worn by the doormen at Studio 54 and by those standing outside hoping it would increase their chances of getting in) to the now-iconic red swimsuit Farrah Fawcett wore on that famous poster, Norma has dressed generations.
She’s full of wisdom and perspective and gently gives me advice on everything from aging, to dating (she fell in love again ten years ago at 65), to how she views busyness—she says “the more you do, the more you can do.” We get into her thoughts on her industry’s evolution and on upcoming generations. I hope I did her career and story justice in this conversation with a real icon.
Show notes:
- Find Norma on the Web | Instagram
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- 2 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Kayleen Schaefer's episode
- Kayleen's book, Text Me When You Get Home
- Take the "We Don't Talk Anymore" survey on friend breakups
- Learn more about my creative consulting & if you'd like to book a free session, book here!
- Learn more about "Soft Stories"
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This week’s guest, Jacqueline Suskin, is a poet, educator, and the author of eight books, with work featured in publications including the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the Los Angeles Times. Her newest book, A Year in Practice, is a practical guide for using the natural seasons to inform creative rhythms, and how our rhythms are drawn from those of the earth.
She now lives in Detroit where she works as a teaching artist with InsideOut Literary Arts, bringing nature poetry into classrooms with her Poem Forest curriculum. She spent many years living in Los Angeles where she began an ongoing project called Poem Store where she composed over forty thousand improvisational poems. In this conversation, we spoke about her transition from living in a place with very slight seasonal difference to a climate where the seasons are clear; how she protects her creative practice by experimenting with what works for her and developing deep discipline to maintain it; the power of saying no; hinging on the brink of success; committing to finding sources of energy that feel consistent and fulfilling, rather than draining; the intensity of spring; seasonal transitions and more. She even reads a poem.
Show Notes:
- Find Jacqueline on the Web | Instagram | A Year In Practice
- Find me on IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout | Substack
- 2 spots left in the Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- More on Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- Check out the Let It Out Kits | Write Kit | Talk Kit Waitlist
- Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 333: Taking up space, acceptance, mindfulness in motherhood & catching ideas with Mari Orkenyi
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This week I spoke with decluttering expert and author Tracy McCubbin on why filling our homes with stuff makes us feel empty, aging and how she both got married and started her business later in life, and why connection and being helpful to others prevents clutter. Tracy came to my apartment and in this you'll hear her help figure out what's been preventing me from making some necessary changes and how you can make them too. Let us know if you listen.
Show Notes:
- Find Tracy on the Web | Instagram | Books
- All of our self-study workshops: Let It Out Kits
- Inbox Organization course: code LETITOUT for 20% off
- Our Substack
- My Creative Clinic: book a call with me here
- TALK KIT waitlist
- Creative Underdogs/In Process here | waitlist
- IG: @letitouttt + @katiedalebout
If you liked this episode, try out from the archive:
Episode 425: Mindful Space Design: Anjie Cho Returns
- Näytä enemmän
