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Dive into entrepreneurship across continents as we chat with Andrew Morgans, a marketing expert with a mission. From a childhood in Africa to pioneering Amazon’s selling space, Andrew’s tale is nothing short of inspiring. Tune in for a masterclass on building brands, adapting strategies, and connecting through commerce.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Born in Africa, raised by missionaries.Dislike networking job, joined a startup.Grew toy company sales by millions.Top 10 world marketers on Upwork.Pioneered services side of Amazon selling.Resources:
MarknologyPodcast ChefConnect with Andrew Morgans:
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15:38 - And so whenever they get clients and they're looking for a larger agency or a partner to do some of the other work or things like that, I've just spent a lot of time creating great relationships there. I feel like that's what I brought to the table outside of being kind of a, just a geek around this stuff was relationship building growing up that way. Growing up the way I grew up is like relationships are everything. It's kinda what I was taught and I just leaned on that. I didn't definitely, I knew zero entrepreneurs when I started this journey. I zoom, I knew zero business people when I started this journey.23:29 - I thought I knew yesterday, I don't know today, you know, we've had pandemics happen, we've had inflation happen, we've had new presidents, we've had all different types of stuff happening that just changes the temperature of your customers, the changes, the temperature of your buying platform and you have to be able to adjust and just, you know, try new things.21:52 - Whenever you're first learning out to market, you just think like through the lens of you, you know? And if that can help you in your first idea, maybe your second idea about, as you start adding hundreds of brands or projects that you're working on, you have to quickly realize that you are not the target market of all times. And you can't always think like you do. So take a step back. A lot of times when you're thinking about a project, if you're helping somebody else or doing your own, there's a big difference. Marketing number one, marketing number two, keep it fresh and don't get stale.13:37 - It's been a great way to grow and market my business and it's changed, it's pushed me to do podcasting and things like that as well as, you know, learning B2B marketing or B2B message is different than being amazing at Google PPC or Amazon ads or, you know, whatever it is. it's been iterations of websites. It's been tons of partner networking. 06:11 - There’s more voices out there in the business community saying this is the truth. This is what you should be doing, this is the future of business. This is e-commerce. Amazon is not going anywhere. Amazon can make you have a profitable business. You can tell your brand story on Amazon. Amazon isn't just gonna cannibalize your website.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the influencer cosmos as Christian Brown unpacks Glewee's journey, a platform marrying creativity with commerce. Discover the art of attracting creators, working with brands, and the potent strategy that skyrocketed their user base by 900%. Tune in for a reveal of the top marketing lessons from Glewee's playbook!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Strategy for a dual-sided market.Achieving success with tailored outreach.Enhancing creator engagement through gamification.Maintaining equilibrium between influencers & brands.Scaling mass reach without payment barriers.Resources:
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22:14 - My next thing is be very true to who you are and what your team is. We've learned this quite a long ways down the road is that brands want to come to us, not only because we have a social media platform, but because we know social media and us as a founding team and as a team of mentors and leaders within our company, what we preach and what we speak to our brands and to our users is what we want the best for everybody. And so I think that there's such genuine intent with what we do.03:11 - So with the double-sided marketplace, when we once had this platform ID on sticky notes, prelaunch, pre-beta, pre-anything, we thought with the question how are we gonna crack the chicken and egg? And we thought about it and we said, well we were 22 and 21 at the time when we first launched the platform. And we said, well let's leverage what we have. We have our network, we've worked with hundreds of creators already and we understand what creators and influencers want out of a platform. They want to be able to track their stats, they want to be able to see how much money they can make, they wanna apply for more campaigns and they wanna work with more brands to create these posts and get paid. 18:51 - I think what it was, was the interest in activity on site. And so we have our platform that we obviously have our website and we call it the mother site. And we were getting so much activity on site and so many different clicks and views to our education guides, YouTube videos and that world around like what Glewee means from an influencer marketing perspective. That to us, the only way to actually count that as what we would think is like part one of a conversion is getting them into a demo form. And these brands, these businesses, these social media marketers, these startup founders were saying, I want to do a demo.11:04 - In the middle, there's agencies that do this on behalf of clients that really have their own tech to power it in the backend. So not true SaaS. And then at the bottom was not many true SaaS platforms. And so we looked at it and we said, well we can play in the legacy brand landscape and the very competitive market where competition has teams of fifty to a hundred BDRs SDRs AEs built out with their sales program. And we tried to emulate something like that and it was one of the greatest learning experiences ever because that was definitely the first time that we were uber-challenged and nearly truly stumped in acquisition. And so with that, we went from just getting people interested in our platform to very quickly having to set up our CRM.06:42 - Brian: And for folks listening that have an environment where you have the chance to screen your clients in that way, I think that's a really powerful strategy. What are the drawbacks of that though? Are there any, are there any issues with hitting that many people in and then telling them they have to apply? How is that working?
Christian: Yeah, as a marketer I think I've learned an immense amount through this program in specific, 'cause they most definitely don't teach you this at the university level, how to actually build these email programs, how to execute at mass scale, how to identify not only your market but qualifications within the market. 'cause yeah, we want creators and influencers to join our platform, but there's a benchmark that they need to hit. There have been a bunch of drawbacks, you know, ebbs and flows. We've seen tons and tons and tons of creators that respond back or even just reach out to usConnect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the vibrant world of startup marketing with Rebecca Fulton from Kliken. Discover the agility of startup culture, the art of crafting a brand's identity, and the intricacies of channel partnerships in this episode that’s packed with insider insights and strategies for fostering business growth.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Flexibility in startup marketing.Crafting a brand's identity.Tackling channel partnership growth.Overcoming marketing challenges.Insights on content strategy.Resources:
KlikenPodcast ChefConnect with Rebecca Fulton:
LinkedInConnect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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08:42 - Our CEO has been really instrumental in fostering those channel relationships and the partnerships throughout the years. So he's really kind of the frontline for that conversation. But we also, we have meetings or emails either weekly, monthly, quarterly with a lot of our business partners and say, okay, well what are you hearing that your customers need? How can we help that solution? Are you hearing that they need something we're not providing? And so we honestly are very interactive and we communicate a lot with our partners to make sure that what we're offering is solving a problem versus just assuming that everything is good as is.20:47 - And the third thing is not to spread yourself too thin. Again, there are a thousand different ways to market something. Don't try and do every shiny new platform that's out there. Don't try and make every type of content that is possible. I'm personally more of a content marketer than anything else, and I've learned that trying to create content that is more spread thin than, you know, very helpful, is kind of the downfall. So know where you want it, know who your audience is, know the type of content that they want and don't, and don't be everything to everyone.04:36 - And I found that if you go to the employees or the executives and say, okay, this is what I found. This is the trend that I see. These are the issues that I think that we can solve for, very easily. And this is kind of our low hanging fruit. It's very simple to get them all on board. The question, the more taxing problem, I suppose is that sometimes it's how we message it after that. So it's not as hard to get people on board with saying, okay, yeah, I agree that these are our problems or these are the things we can work on, or these are the things that are our strong suits.11:31 - I would say that a majority of our business comes direct from those channel partnerships. And that's again, because we built our business working with channels. We built our business working with partners and making sure that we had a solution that they could use for their customers. So that is why a majority of what we've always done has been part of channel. Now the direct-to-market stuff is growing. As I mentioned, click and ads is a newer product. It's only been out on the market for less than a year. And so I expect that that will grow significantly over time.05:32 - Rebecca: It's more of how do we then move forward and kind of adjust messaging or, you know, shift if we need to.
Brian: So now you're working at Kliken and so what makes that business kind of hard to market?
Rebecca: So Kliken is an online marketing platform. The thing that makes it hard to market is that it's an online marketing platform. There are a lot of them out there. People are often very confused as to who to choose, should they go with an agency? What's the difference between agency and a DIY platform, which is essentially what we are.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the crowded world of marketing with FiveRings Marketing's CEO, Shaheem Alam. Get insider tips on standing out, offering full-service marketing from cold calls to SEO, and selling in a tech-saturated landscape. If you're navigating a noisy market or craving marketing ingenuity, this episode is your playbook for success!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Tackling a saturated market.Unique full-service agency approach.Crafting a robust go-to-market strategy.The power of cold outreach.Evolving sales processes & positioning.Resources:
FiveRings MarketingPodcast ChefConnect with Shaheem Alam:
LinkedInConnect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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03:06 - One thing is just with our service offerings, I'm not gonna say the only there, there might be more out there, but I haven't come across an agency right now that's doing full service, meaning we do the outbound sales stuff, your cold calling, cold emailing, LinkedIn prospecting, providing BDRs, SDRs, that kind of service. And then also doing inbound, you know, PPC, LinkedIn ads, Google Ads, SEO, content marketing. 01:32 - Brian: What makes your business difficult to market?
Shaheem: Got it. I think what makes our business difficult to market is the fact that there are tons of other agencies out there that are doing something similar or doing the same thing or doing bits and pieces of what we're doing. So there's a lot of competition14:25 - Shaheem: So that's like the first challenge that they come with is like, they need conversations, they need sales meetings. The other thing, which is something that they don't realize, which I'm starting to have more and more conversations with our clients about is while they think that if they get 15 meetings per month, they're gonna close, 20% of them, 30% of them, and then they're gonna get the revenue and they're gonna close these deals in two, three months and they're gonna hit their series A and it's all gonna be, you know, according to plan.
Brian: Sunshine and rainbows.12:11: I think PLG requires like a community, a strong presence online, right? Like a lot of that kind of stuff. A lot of buying from a community. And most startups that we work with don't have that. Like, we don't actually come across PLG being a very like, common tactic that like, that's being employed. We have had clients where they do use it because they had an open source product. And they have a huge community built out of that. We have other clients that will come and they had like, Hey, inbound is working really well because they just figured out ads really, really well. But you need all channels humming still, right? So even if you have your community or you have your inbound ads or organic or your referrals or whatever, you still need that outbound component because this is a channel again. And you wanna, ideally, as you grow, have all channels. 17:32 - We have some documents we share with them too, to creating like a good discovery call, and then what's your next step? Advising them on what that next step should be, and then what should, what it should follow up with afterwards, how to follow up to keep moving these leads along your funnel. So we advise our clients and provide them with some guidance around that.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the marketing mind of Garrett Hammonds! From teacher aspirations to a marketing maestro, Garrett unravels his journey and spills secrets about standing out in digital marketing. Discover B2B success, conference ROI, and crafting relationships that convert. Get your notepads ready!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
From teaching to marketing guru.Niche focus in digital marketing.ROI tracking in corporate events.Relationship building in B2B.Tools & insights for marketing success.Resources:
Nomadic Marketing + SoftwarePodcast ChefConnect with Garrett Hammonds:
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08:38 - We didn't need something as large scale like a Salesforce or you know, a larger plan on something like a HubSpot. So ActiveCampaign helps us be able to automate what we need to keep people flowing through the pipeline. And that's where we keep up with the lifetime value as well. Other things that we use as tracking measures, we do use Zoom Info as a tool. So we know if companies that we have been keeping up with have visited our website, connects up perfect to GA IV and actually passes those parameters into the reports that we can have there. And then we also use Mixpanel. That one's gonna be just kind of a secondary backup to some of our other tracking. So if something ever goes down, we have mixed panel that can, you know, kind of act as a act as another system to pull in.11:47 - Being a digital marketing agency, we have some different ways in which, you know, we've pulled in clients through free Google Ads audits and you know, there's all kinds of different pathways that we employ. But I think at the heart of all of that, even when looking at any kind of digital piece, it's always gonna need to come back to a core objective of how can I connect with these businesses, these business owners, the people, the humans on the other side, and really listen to the needs that they have and are we a good fit for helping them? And that's where that relationship piece comes in.10:14 - Garrett: Most of the ones we've gone to have been a big success though. But we've gone to specific industry conferences for the verticals that we serve. So staying away from more general professional conferences and going to very, very specific industry vertical conferences.
Brian: So you're using those conferences to nurture relationships, you're continuing to grow the referrals you already had and you're increasing your lifetime value for your current client base. And I think that's like,as a three-legged stool, that's a really a great approach.17:45 - Other clients, people are just searching for very, very specific things on search engines you know, finding a very specific industry publication, we've crossed over at times with traditional marketing and magazine things. It really just depends and it's really important for anybody who's trying to market their business to know your market and what it looks like and know your audience. And it's gonna be one of my, one of my big themes that you may hear from me that, that relationship that links back to knowing your audience.20:22 - It's central because the audience at the end of the day, drives demand and their needs, whether they are always initially aware of them or not, their needs are the thing that is going to make it to where you can actually provide solutions for them. Not make sales, but offer solutions. And I think that's key as well, knowing your skills and your tools. One of the most foundational things that have helped me grow in my career has been this one, knowing tools. I didn't of course graduate with a marketing degreeConnect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of marketing with Ashley Behre as she unravels the knots of marketing hard-to-sell issues like a pro. From small-town authenticity to Las Vegas glitz, Ashley takes us on a journey through the dynamic landscapes of digital marketing, community impact, and the fierce world of engaging tech giants. Don’t miss this invigorating chat that's sure to stir up your marketing spirits!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
SEO and content take center stage.Community impact defines agency ethos.Marketing plans are not one-size-fits-all.Inspiring leadership is marketing gold.Strategic community engagement is key.Resources:
The Abbi AgencyPodcast ChefConnect with Ashley Behre:
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15:47 - Ashley: I think the key thing there is the big hearts. We need to find those people because we're the ones who can bring bold to life in a way.
Brian: That's awesome. So that sort of charity or community engagement-driven approach to marketing is something that's pretty, a pretty strong differentiator I think for you in the marketplace. 19:29 - I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that you have to make time and space to allow yourself to be inspired. And that like it has been a journey for me. You know, you get into the weeds of everything and time goes by and you kind of forget to stop and smell the roses per se. But you know, put time on your calendar to read into articles, to walk and listen to a podcast, to find and put yourself in spaces where you can be inspired because that inspiration is what leads to good marketing that matters.07:56 - The best way we're trying to do it in 2024, if I had to boil down our marketing plan in 2024, is show don't tell. I am much more interested in spending time achieving an award that shows the excellence in services rather than telling everyone that I'm really good at what I do, right? So we're doing a lot of that and then I think the next biggest pivot is it's super hard to market to marketers. They're the, we are the biggest critics, right? And I think that's one of the hardest things I find with my job is that my target audience is myself. So I have to really think about and sit down like, what would be of interest to me to learn about? Why, why would I care about that? I I am probably served to the most out of anyone content.17:19 - The person that we're working with, our partner, and bringing things to life. And I think there's, you cannot forget about the emotional connection with your main point of contact or the people that you're working with because they that might be the draw for you. I will say that the agency also has other elements that may resonate more with potentially the tech clients and that would be our kind of more performance-driven mindset. The test and learning situations that we, build and drive performance from. We try to be as tied to goals and outcomes as possible. Not all industries are as tied to goals as some others are, but making sure that we are as not aggressive is the word, but fierce is, is kind of the word we like to use. 13:26 - Brian: How are you identifying those?
Ashley: Yeah, again, it depends on the market honestly. It's really important to have an authentic approach to each market and to make sure that you're received by the audiences in that market, how best you can be. The best way for me to share that is an approach into the Las Vegas market is very different from how you approach Montana. For example, Las Vegas is a little bit flashier. We have to make the biggest impact we can.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into a dynamic chat with Beth Trejo, CEO of Chatterkick, as she unveils the transformative journey from boardrooms to the digital world. Discover marketing insights, evolving business strategies, and the social spark igniting company growth.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Beth unveils Chatterkick's origin story.Powerful SEO tips hidden in plain sight.Social media's role in business hiring.Venturing from local to national circuitsStrategy shift: from high-volume to consultative sales.Resources:
ChatterkickPodcast ChefConnect with Beth Trejo:
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19:16 - Number one is be curious. Always like want to learn more. I think that's really important. Another is to be kind. You never know what someone's going through on the other end of that conversation, whether it's a real conversation or it's a social media conversation. And I think the third is to make sure that you respond, call them back. When they call you, call them back, whatever that looks like. I think too many businesses just ignore their digital phones and they're real people on the other end of this. And I think if you really wanna make business work on social media, you have to form those real human connections.11:27 - I think right now just our field in marketing as a whole is shifting. And I think it will continue. It has, it's always evolved and we're still gonna need people to help tell businesses stories. Like, I don't think that there's going to be a fall or demise of marketing, but I think the way that we're doing it on behalf of businesses is changing at a very, very fast pace. And social media is still a big category of how individuals, especially individuals under the age of 40, want to interact with brands, but businesses are not embracing it at the pace that they really, that their customers want.15:08 - There is all of this other stuff that comes up. And if you don't create that presence for your business, someone else will. Your employees will create it on Glassdoor, your customers will be posting about you on TikTok, you're gonna get out there. But it's just a matter of like, who do you want to tell that story? And sometimes businesses make the strategic choice not to be in that spot, and that's their call. 15:43 - What drives me crazy is when businesses are using preconceived notions or assumptions about their customers without actually going through that journey themselves. Like, have you tried to apply to your own jobs? Have you tried to go through your website and be a customer? Can you find your phone number? and it's those type of things that I think are the big biggest misses that a lot of businesses are just blindsided with.09:51 - You need to make sure you know how to hire the right type of salesperson. In the beginning, we hired high-volume salespeople. And I always call, that's like the hunting dog mindset, right? Just like, go get 'em, go get 'em, go get 'em. And those individuals were great, but because they like need that constant drip of dopamine from a sale, they would sell things that sometimes we didn't even offer, or they would sell things incorrectly because they just wanted the sale. And so we kind of got into a spot where we had to say, hold up. We need someone who can really consul, consultative sell this service. We need them to really understand enough about digital marketing and the tools that we're using. And really they need to want the sale not just for the money, but because they know it's going to be a long-term partnership.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the dynamic world of podcast marketing with Ilana from Heard of Media and host Brian Mattocks. Uncover the secrets of audience building, relationship forging in B2B podcasting, and the subtle art of podcast promotion. Explore media landscapes and tactics that turn the microphone's magic into a thriving listener base.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Boost podcasts by swapping promos.Audience growth is a slow burn.Use YouTube for podcast SEO.Audience indicators for podcast growth.Testing content for audience appeal.Resources:
Heard of MediaPodcast ChefConnect with Ilana Susnow:
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24:56 - You bring up an important point and I think it's something to be mindful of for our listeners and that is that even in many ways what's defined as a podcast is now changing, right? It's no longer just an audio that people can listen to while they go for right. It's now an audio plus a video channel plus a TikTok stream plus this, that, and the other thing. And with all of those sort of silos coming down, you have to understand that you're now playing in a media landscape. It's not just that niche conversation and in a media landscape, there's folks that have been in that a lot longer than you have out there doing this work. There are some things that even experienced podcasters can learn about the way media operates to help grow and engage an audience in a meaningful way. 9:13 - Advertising data shows that people traditionally are more likely to buy from a host red ad that they hear in a podcast from a, you know, someone they follow regularly. And by follow, I mean their podcast, necessarily their socials or whatnot, right? They're hearing it in their ears or on the YouTube, on the YouTube channel. Like, I love this product, buy it because that's one of the reasons advertisers love podcasting and that sort of share of ears so much.22:15 - And in success, you'll be able to go on those bigger shows where you can get bigger hits at once. The other thing I think is just a misconception and again I think I did mention this earlier, is social media is great for brand awareness, really hard for it to bring in actual new listeners and downloads. I do think YouTube is changing that a little bit, changing that game. So that's the other big conversation right now in podcasting.30:52 - Brian: In your marketing journey so far, what are your three biggest lessons that you've learned?
Ilana: Don't be afraid to test. If you have the bandwidth to do it, be very mindful of how your paid, earned, and owned. Opportunities inform and play against each other. So be ready to continuously optimize and scale those to raise your profile and also your audience not duplicate efforts in the different spaces. 'cause they do overlap a lot and you know, I think you don't need to be on every social platform, but finding the platform that you get the most engagement from with the audience you're targeting or knowing where your audience is, is really where you should be investing your time and your content and adjusting it specific to that audience.13:34 - One of the things with brands that I didn't really focus on earlier, but is a strategic way to think about podcasts especially if you're videoing your podcast, you can break that up and use it as content across all the platforms that your brand exists on. So, you know, you can take this interview and cut it up into moments add subtitles, I mean add copy to the screen and put it in it, it shows up in people's feeds, right? And you highlight whatever you're talking about again and see what is resonating and what people are following.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of B2B marketing, where strategy meets social science. Join our guest, Julie Williamson, as she unveils the secrets behind effective leadership, channel partnerships, and the art of aligning teams. Get ready for insights that could transform your organization!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Powerful marketing meets social science.Referrals bridge client expectation gaps.Targeting new leaders for growth opportunities.Nurturing the channel partner ecosystem.Aligning leaders for organizational change.Resources:
Karrikins GroupPodcast ChefConnect with Julie Williamson, PhD:
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21:28 - How do we get the leadership team to fully engage on the strategic goals, the transformation effort, the change that's afoot in the organization so that they can accelerate and really drive that transformation as effectively as possible. That's our sweet spot. We do a lot of other work too, but that's where we really shine is if you feel like something is kind of gummed up or decisions aren't getting made quickly enough or you're not heading in the right direction, we can help organizations to align and deliver together.06:33 - So just from a purely tactical perspective, if people are thinking about how do I get someone to be a referral for me, don't ask for too much of their time. You don't need it because that social proof happens very quickly. It happens within the first five or ten minutes that the person who is getting the referral is deciding whether or not they trust in this person and they trust that the information being shared is valid. So you don't need an hour. So we look for that little slot of time that we can get with them to get the two of them together. And then we generally host the conversation, at least for the first few minutes to make introductions to say, you know, here's the work that we did, here's the work we're thinking about doing, and connect the dots at that point. Sometimes it can be really helpful to drop off and let the two of them have a conversation just between them.09:34 - Because once people have the opportunity to work with us and, to hear what we have to say and also to see what it's like to be in a meeting with us or be in an experience with us, then things actually move pretty quickly from a sales perspective. So the marketing process of getting someone through a referral conversation generally opens the door for us to get more into that experiential marketing.12:03 - I find prompts them to come back and want more, right? So again, it's that idea of giving them something that's really useful and tangible that they can put into play right away. And then they say, okay, I get it. I see the value of this. How can you help me build a strategy that will let me stand kind of apart and set apart this group? Or how can you help me with the growth strategies that we have in place that we need to accelerate?13:56 - And that's where our channel partners really come into place into play. So we have the referral program that we do with clients where we ask them to give us introductions or to speak on our behalf. But the channel partner approach for us is proving to be really useful for getting us those inbound leads because they can listen for and start to pull in customers who feel like they're in the right space. So that's been really interesting for us to explore.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Embark on an enthralling voyage through the career trajectory of Victoria Richardson, as she transitions from her humble beginnings in the dish machine industry to spearheading AI advancements in advertising. Navigate through the intricate landscape of marketing evolution, agency dynamics, and the delicate balance of empowering individuals in this captivating episode brimming with invaluable insights and a touch of glamour!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Victoria's unexpected career path.Transitioning to AI advertising.Importance of partnership models.Building a business without burnout.Strategies for go-to-market evolution.Resources:
AiAdvertisingPodcast ChefConnect Victoria Richardson:
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05:37 - We had gotten a few different companies. They were rebranding, they were repositioning in the market. We really didn't have anything to support salespeople. So they ended up hiring this agency to help them just generate leads so that they could do presentations and start to close clients. What we shortly found out was that really, that was the wrong model for us. We really weren't set up in a way to support internal salespeople. We kind of needed to take it a little slower. And so we dissolved that team. It took about a year after that21:55 - I think it's important because things are obviously rapidly changing and especially with AI coming on, it's like, you know, the greatest and now there's other tools out there and there's other systems. And so just kind of being flexible and experimental in what you do, I think is a really important lesson for any marketer. Networking I think is a really great thing. Again, I don't subscribe to you can do everything alone or that you should do everything alone. I think building trusted networks and people that you can bounce ideas off of and people that you can leverage and refer to, I think is a really great thing to do as a marketer. And then the last thing I think is being resourced because, you know, as marketers, I think a lot of times we're relied upon to be creative and we're relied upon to come up with ideas and we're relied upon to execute those ideas. 03:03 - Victoria: And so I quit without having anything lined up because I was like, I know I can't do this. And so then I was in San Diego a few years ago and I got a call from a recruiter and it was for the job I'm in now. So he was like, is now a good time to talk? And I was like, yeah, I've only had two margaritas, it might as well.
Brian: Yeah. Perfect!
Victoria: Took an interview with him and then quickly like, you know, went through the interview process, got hired, and that was about two and a half years ago now, almost three years ago. And so I'm director of marketing at AI Advertising. So it's fun because I'm on the brand side, but I'm in an agency. 18:16 - But I think when it comes to like understanding what to work on, I had to have kind of a come to Jesus with myself because I want to do good at all of it. It's not possible again, to do good at everything when you have too many things to do. And so I really look at what are the projects on my plate and what is the impact that it's gonna have on the bottom line? Because I realized pretty quickly, like my social media, which is taking up hours of my week, is not actually bringing in any leads. It's not actually closing any business. It's actually not contributing to making money. And I'm spending a lot of time on it. And so that was something that I basically just dissolved because I was like at this point of where we are, we're not big enough.12:37 - But, you know, I think it naturally would get there without the financing, just because I think more and more people are realizing you're gonna burn out if you're all things to all people. And it's a lot easier. You know, we were talking before the call, it's a lot easier to bring your skills together and amplify what you do, and it's so much more impactful with less stress because you're not trying to learn SEO and do SEO and also do social and also do, you know, all of these other things. It's like we understand businesses need all of these things. We also understand we can't be that for every single business.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into William Gasner's entrepreneurial journey from farmer's market beginnings to e-commerce success and launching Stack Influence — a platform connecting brands with micro-influencers. Discover the tactics and lessons learned from scaling businesses to seven figures, the transition between product and service industries, and the art of nurturing a robust influencer marketplace.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
From jewelry to seven-figure sales.E-comm logistics vs. service scalability.Influencer marketing adds brand margin.Pivoting back to service with Stack Influence.SEO and direct outreach as growth levers.Resources:
Stack InfluencePodcast ChefConnect with William Gasner:
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15:05 - William: So it's enabled me to not only learn new tactics about e-commerce and best ways to use it, but also to create a business that can have a potential to not only help hundreds of thousands of e-commerce brands, ideally millions, but our goal is to actually have a billion social media users on the platform to be promoting every day.
Brian: That's awesome. So, and you get to stay in the e-commerce space by proxy at that point, which is nice.10:24 - So the cool thing about influencer marketing is you get this kind of, it's a unique marketing tactic in the world of all of these different ways to get your product out there in the sense that it gives you more bang for your buck and more value across different sectors. So take just online advertising in general, like running an ad on Facebook, right? Your, only really return there is a sale, which at the end of the day is valuable. And that's what we all want. Is like get your product out there and people buy it money and money out. However, that is the same thing with influencer marketing, right? People are gonna be promoting your product and that you're gonna pay them X amount of money and then that's going to result ideally in eCommerce sales. However, on top of that, you're not just getting a sale, they're getting a piece of content.11:21 - All of those things actually build your brand. And that can be sometimes hard to equate exact value to it, but I personally think it's kind of an invaluable thing. It's like what is the value of having a website in general, right? It's like, a good brand or a good logo. It's like this creates this image of who you are, who's using your product and that can really take you to the next level.24:59 - Like people have a bad taste in their mouth from some people perceive influencers as almost sellouts where we perceive them as again, a passion promoter, someone promoting something that they care about because they're willing to put in a bunch of effort for a product themself because it fits with what they love, what they want to share. And there's nothing better and more authentic and more trustworthy than that type of advocacy. It's again, word-of-mouth marketing. It's like who do you trust most in your life when you're going to buy something? It's someone who's a kind of an expert in that industry, right?22:47 - In the same way as also certain levels to content quality and curation. So what has blown up in the space, which is besides the promotion itself, is what people call UGC “user-generated content” specifically in the world of advertising. So creating a video post that's a full testimonial, right? There are levels to helping the creator actually make that post more valuable. Editing it, adding captions, adding animations. And those things where there can be profit sharing involved using our technology and monetizing and even charging. There's other platforms, and this is something we have discussedConnect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the transformative world of AI, blockchain, and Web3 technologies with Zeev Wexler. Uncover how the future of marketing is being reshaped and learn the strategies that will keep you ahead in this fast-changing landscape. Get ready to be enlightened — and maybe a little entertained — about the dynamic digital future that's already here!
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
AI and blockchain are industry game changers.Web3’s role in evolving the internet.AI's role in democratizing skills.The creative use of AI sets marketers apart.Investing in AI while valuing human insight.Resources:
WexlerViacryPodcast ChefConnect with Zeev Wexler:
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01:46 - Zeev: When's the last time you read a newspaper, Brian? Like a live actual, like a flip paper newspaper?
Brian: Ooh. Oh, it's easily been probably a year and a half.
Zeev: Ooh, that's way shorter than what I thought. So it's probably been like 10 years for me since I actually flipped the newspaper. Why? Now I used to flip a newspaper every morning. That was my daily routine when I was growing at home. Why don't we look through newspapers anymore?
Brian: They're inconvenient in pretty much every way. They're wasteful, they're horrible for the environment. The only reason I read a newspaper even a year and a half ago was because I wanted to buy one for a landmark event in my life.
Zeev: That is awesome. But what is the one thing that happened that because of that, nobody uses newspapers anymore.11:48 - Brian: But I think what it really points out to me, and, you know, hearing you speak, is that, the people, the way you're gonna really pursue meaningful market differentiation moving forward since everyone's gonna have access to these super tools, is effectively the most creative person wins. The person who can use these tools in the most creative or novel way is gonna have everybody else chasing them because that seems to be, the reality of that environment. Now, disabuse me of that notion, if you would like, help me, help me understand how that's true or not true.
Zeev: It's true to some extent, and it's not true to some extent. So different companies have different needs. Sometimes we work with many companies that they cannot use like an Open AI, right? Okay, so Chat GPT the elephant in the room, everybody can go use Chat GPT for all kinds of things.19:26 - So between you and I, by 2030, your life is gonna be different. You're gonna use AI for 95% of the things that you do, on a daily basis. It's just what's gonna happen. People don't realize they use AI already. What is Alexa? What is Siri? You know, what are all these things? So the more, you know, I play with my kids with AI all the time. 03:15 - Why would you open a bank account if by the age of 12 you can send Bitcoin to whoever you like? And with blockchain technology, you are actually a bank yourself. So I'm digressing a lot here, but what I'm trying to say is the world is changing underneath us.04:31 - You either take this on and become a 10x to the marketer that you were or you don't, and somebody else will take your job, take your plate, take your client. We're on a, it's almost like I see people in our profession. If you don't really go after AI, you are going to lose. I almost can guarantee it because everything is gonna change.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the realm of digital marketing mastery with Kevin Daisey, Founder and CMO of Array Digital. This episode of the Hard to Market podcast peels back the layers on harnessing podcasting for organic leads, the power of niching down, and leadership in marketing. Get the inside scoop as Kevin unravels how to cultivate lucrative relationships and elevate your brand!
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Podcasting is a key to organic leads.Importance of niching down.The art of lifting leaders.Building real connections through podcasting.Integration of AI in podcasting.Resources:
Array DigitalPodcast ChefConnect with Kevin Daisey:
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18:51 - But you know, you could take an audio of yourself that you don't have a video of and create a video with AI so you can take some of the content you've created and use an AI, produce it as articles, social content, all kinds of stuff. And so we have such a library of topics and recordings that we've already done the work on, and now you can take that and repurpose and do things with it. But AI could be a huge part there to leverage.17:35 - That is, you know, AI-generated, or I saw a podcast between two AIs the other day, role-playing as like Einstein and Jean-Paul Sartre or something, and it was like, holy crap. So, I think it's important to understand that there's some meaningful distinctions there between the work that you do, the work that I do, and podcasting at large, particularly the entertainment style stuff.14:47 - Brian: So what I guess, what I want to hear next is a little bit more about what's next, right? So you talked about the amount of opportunity that is created and where it's going. What's next for your podcast? How do you view that integrating with the business even further? And where does it go from here?
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, good point. Well, you know, I'd like to, you know, we're about to put some more energy and money behind promotion of the podcast to get it out to other, more people. Probably polish up some things. You can look at my background right now. It's, you know, so we're gonna put a little bit more spit shine on it, I guess.26:35 - But I think applying pieces of it and actually doing it over time, and there's no secret, there's a lot of little things you gotta get, right? So if you're running a business, there's lots of people that have done it. Talk to them, get mentors, talk to people, get a group mastermind, and just immerse yourself. But there's a lot of little things you gotta do. It's either hire people to do 'em or you gotta do 'em yourself. And that's what it takes. That's just it. There's no secret sauce here. That's a big lesson there.30:54 - We want things to be different. I mean, they said it in Age of Ultra, right? The Marvel movie, I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. They say it like, you want things to change, you want things to be different, but you don't want them to change. It's that, it's perfect, right? You keep thinking like, oh yeah, I definitely want this outcome, but you don't want to, you don't want the discomfort of change required to make that outcome occur. So do you really, you know, is it a wish at that point or is it a reality that you're willing to make happen? And I think you've encapsulated it very well. Like all of the stuff is out there.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of Out-of-Home media with Rick Robinson! Learn how PJX Media brings stories to life, from bustling billboards to engaging campaigns. Get insider know-how on attracting clients, navigating industry complexities, and the art of grabbing consumer attention. All in this fascinating, info-packed session!
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Understanding out-of-home media.The strategy behind client engagement.Impress with award-winning campaigns.Data-driven decisions in advertising.Growth-driving tips for marketers.Resources:
PJX MediaPodcast ChefConnect with Rick Robinson:
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15:55 - Rick: And we have the best success. Once you start investing further and start rising the tide, so to speak, you'll need help. And that's where complexity comes in and where our value proposition really makes a difference.
Brian: Yeah, you have, I mean obviously when you go from a local to a larger market, you have differentiation. You've gotta deal with, you've got all sorts of, you know, the attribution problems, like we discussed the attention mechanics. And I think it really makes a ton of sense to start to get help at the very least in that context, minimally prior to that, you're suggesting that the kinds of services you would provide at a national or large regional level would be best delivered by a local distributor.03:35 - Rick: So on the attraction side, it's, you know, doing great work for the clients. We already have nurturing and creating opportunity for those clients. So they stay with us, we can retain the business. And when they move to other agencies or brands, they're very likely to use this. So that's a very nurture, create mindset.
Brian: Referral side. Yeah.
Rick: And that's key. That's really the core and the foundation. And then on the promotion side, we're very active on LinkedIn with thought leadership, with expressions of work we do, examples of work we do calling out where we've been recognized for award-winning work and things like that. And then we have a new business team that's very aggressive with an email marketing formula and a lot of cold and slightly cold, barely warm outreach15:55 - Rick: I think in both cases it'll give you a good sense of the lay of the land. If you're a smaller local advertiser, it just wants to buy one billboard at a time, you know, you can work with your local billboard companies, right? And we have the best success. Once you start investing further and start rising the tide, so to speak, you'll need help. And that's where complexity comes in and where our value proposition really makes a difference.
Brian: Yeah, you have, I mean obviously when you go from a local to a larger market, you have differentiation. You've gotta deal with.02:49 - Rick: You make sure you get the production organized and you get it up on, whether it's the printed panel or the screen.
Brian: So you're in the middle of that doing the strategic sort of maneuvering and the project planning. Is that what I'm hearing?
Rick: Yeah. Our clients come to us for really two things for expertise. 'cause as you noted, it's a very fragmented, diverse supply side and bandwidth, the energy time to organize all of it and make it happen.06:32 - And what you try to do along the way is create value. When you reach out to these folks in a more or less cold manner, you want to make sure that what you're bringing them is of interest and you've done some homework and you're providing a reward for their attention. And so that gives you a chance to engage. And then once you do, you can transform that relationship. It can, it can become a consultative relationship as opposed to a transactional moment.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Join Brian Mattocks as he unravels the inspiring journey of Ted Lau, the mastermind behind Ballistic Arts. From videotapes to lead gen, discover how passion and adaptability propelled a small garage startup into a thriving B2B marketing agency. Tune in for Ted's candid storytelling packed with actionable insights and a dash of entrepreneurial spirit.
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Garage beginnings to B2B leadsCreativity in business growthImportance of adapting skillsBalancing art with businessTeam building and leadershipResources:
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10:47 - And it's really fun, that leadership part of it, you can be very creative doing fun things for your team. Like we did for our 20th anniversary at Ballistic Arts, we hired a top chef winner, you know, the show Top Chef. So that we hired the, I think he was like the 2017 or 2018 winner. And he took us out in the middle of nowhere. I live in Vancouver, Canada, as I said, in the middle of nowhere in British Columbia where there's a bunch of forest fires the year before. And we went out to like all these burnt trees for stuff to pick morel mushrooms. We did a team building thing picking morel mushrooms. And then he parked us along a creek in the middle of nowhere and he cooked us a seven-course meal along a creek, right? It was, and that is something that you can still be creative. You can find really cool things that like people will remember for the rest of their lives. Like, oh, my work took us here with a chef and all that kind of stuff. So that kind of stuff, you can be creative. Now, in terms of the business, like ballistic arts, are we creative?18:45 - Another thing that one of my video directors would tell his creative team is that, look, at the end of the day, if you wanna be an artist, you can do that on the side. But we're here for a job to get paid and so we have a mission, we're going to go do that. And yeah, like a lot of 'em do creative stuff on as side hustles, but they know that at the end of the day, they still have to pay their bills. And everything that we do is also results driven. We promise to our clients we're gonna hit a particular metric for them. It's usually a lead target metric, like how many qualified leads they need a month. And then so long as we hit it, I mean we, we pay a decent salary for all of our team members. However, every single one of 'em have a bonus attached.A very generous bonus incentive that if they hit client goals, then they're gonna hit that their, that incentive. And as much as you might be a creative and artist and all that kind of stuff, cost of living is not inexpensive these days.11:37 - It's like all advertising, right? The, we just had the Super Bowl, right? And I mean, I love the Dunkin Donuts. I don't know if you watched that one, the Dunkin Donuts commercial with Ben Affleck and Tom Brady and all that. It was hilarious. And is the creativity aspect, but it did drive attention and eyeballs and brand awareness for Dunkin Donuts, right? And that's the same thing. You have to have that balance. But I think a lot of marketers make a ton of mistakes on focusing on the creative.03:30 - Because okay, you don't need a video, and then they'd be like, well, we noticed that your, your brochure's pretty nice. Can you design me a brochure for my business? And I'm thinking in my head, like, I'm a video production company, but after like six months of getting no's, we don't want to do a video. And then having someone going, can you design a, I'm like, I'm hungry. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we can do that. Oh, how much would it be? And I had to, I remember quoting people on the spot, like really quickly in my head, how much do I wanna get paid per hour? How many hours do I think it's gonna do.04:09 - And it always kind of, at least at first was like a $1,000, right? And, and, yeah, yeah, I did not know that at the time. That was actually a very, very cost effective thing. And so people were like, oh, a thousand bucks. Yeah, yeah, well, we'll hire you. And so, you know, I'd come back to the office, which was again, the room above my parents' garage. I had a business partner at the time. I'd be like, I didn't sell a video today, but I sold the brochure. We need to, we need to design a brochure now. And so we had learn how to do that, right? And we had to learn, so we knew how to design things, but you know, we had to learn how to do crop marks. What bleed is CMYK to RGB, like all this kind, or for RRG, B2C MYK, all this kind of stuff. Colors and color correction, all that kind of stuff. And, but we learned, and we did it on time and on budget, which was the most important thing that I realized. Another lesson is that doesn't matter how great your creative is, how great of an artist you might be, but you are marketing to businesses. At the end of the day, businesses have deadlines that they have to meet. They need this brochure for a particular event. So you gotta actually be able to hit it and don't go over budget because that, that will basically burn a lot of bridges. So we are always on time and on budget. And then, oh hey, now that we're trusted, oh, this web thing, this thing called the interweb, is it doesn't seem to be going away.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Jump into the vibrant journey of Shoppable's creation with Founder Heather Udo. Unveil the strategies behind securing powerhouse clients like the Wall Street Journal, fostering advisory networks, and scaling a unique three-sided marketplace. Dive in for the savvy insights on profit, sales, and team-building that propelled her start-up to thrive against all odds.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Wall Street Journal as the first client.Advisory board game-changer.Tech for anything shoppable.Network effect boosts growth.Importance of focusing on profit and sales.Resources:
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1:43 - So one, I brought on incredible advisors onto to Shoppable advisory board to help open up doors. So for a little bit of context, Shoppable is a three-sided marketplace. So something that is incredibly difficult to do and a lot of venture capitalists will say, oh, it's not possible2:56 - So anyway, so we had to, we had the challenge of having to solve both sides of that marketplace and solved that by building out an incredible advisory board. So one of the advisors we brought on had a very, very extensive background in the publishing space, working with the top publishers in the country and bringing her on board. She was able to open up doors and help me get meetings and credibility with these top-name publishers out of the gate.1:42 - Brian: How did you get your first customer with Shoppable?
Heather: So, great question. My first customer was our launch partner was the Wall Street Journal, and we were very, very fortunate to be able to have them as our launch partner in order to secure that, that partnership or any great launch partner. We did a couple things that really changed the game for us.2:46 - Heather: But then we also needed publisher customers that could utilize the technology on their sites to sell it to the end consumer. So anyway, we had to, we had the challenge of having to solve both sides of that marketplace and solved that by building out an incredible advisory board. So one of the advisors we brought on had a very, very extensive background in the publishing space, working with the top publishers in the country and bringing her on board. She was able to open up doors and help me get meetings and credibility with these top-name publishers out of the gate. So we actually almost had another launch partner that also wanted to be our launch partner. They ended up not being able to move forward in it as fast as the Wall Street Journal did, but that's really how we were able to first get our foot, you know, get our foot in the door was through our advisory network.
Brian: So you networked your way, into your great first client.3:51 - Brian: So you networked your way, into your great first client. How, how are you managing to scale? I mean, are you still using that networking strategy to get to the next level as it were?
Heather: Yeah, the networking strategy has worked really well for us on both sides of the marketplace. So we also used the advisory board to, help unlock doors at, within our first retail partners so that we had their products to sell within Shoppable platform.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Join host Brian Mattocks in an exhilarating deep dive with Jordi Negre on Dantex Group's ambitious transition from Europe to the US. Jordi unpacks the strategic gamble of relocating headquarters, embracing a SaaS model, and gearing up for an aggressive expansion. Expect insider insights on scaling a business amidst cultural shifts, fundraising, and the art of finding the right talent.
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Dantex Group's brave HQ relocation.Navigating a fragmented European market.Switching to a lucrative SaaS model.Strategy for acquiring US clients.Attracting talent for growth in the US.Resources:
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00:49 - Europe seems like a very consolidated marketplace but in fact it's very fragmented different languages different regions different even currencies because with the Brexit you have the pound and then you have the Euro so the path to growth, it's pretty difficult. It seems like a homogeneous market but it's not that homogeneous and with our limited resources and dedication we decided that the US market was much bigger and the culture of adoption of our products services the platform that we have it's much more understood and the venture capital ecosystem makes it also like the best place to grow to scale and eventually make an exit plan. So a part of that decision to move was the decision to raise as well right?16:52 - Second is adapting which is not exactly pivoting but it's like pivoting geographically to adapt that pitch or let's say cultural evangelization about what you do to another culture. And third, it's that although all the signs confirm that we have done the right decision in wearing the right track the conclusion is that this is going to be tougher but bigger at the end.16:52 - Well in the B2B segment in which we are we could confirm that if you have done business in Germany you could do business in the US. I mean the requirements of those corporations are more or less similar but then the second conclusion would be that the go-to market it's very different like we discussed and nobody teaches you how to do it because the world has very different let's say geographical areas and every geographical area behaves very differently so one it's confirming that the product makes sense.1:37 - Brian: So tell me a little bit more about that what are you thinking there?
Jordi: Yeah I mean I'm a firm believer that we do have to be successful with organic growth but if you want to put your company in a different level at some point you're going to need external funding, although we're not in the best years of fundraising and I've been reviewing and reading some articles recently that do not create a cool expectation for 2024, this might change in the future and we will you know be in a different situation. And once we need let's say big money to make a like a potential growth and and and and and and and aggressive expansion.06:34 - Yeah, it was, we could say a risky decision to move our headquarters to the US and changing models because we had to disconnect from one geographic and region and connect one other. That's not something that happens from one day to the other so you have to be aware that you're gonna cross the desert for a few months. Luckily we had some cash from our own operations that allowed us to transit that desert and right now we're in the middle of let's say getting traction in the US through industry leaders.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into Jared Miller's transformation from actor to digital marketing maestro on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast. Discover the origins of That Funny Agency (TFA) and how humor powers serious marketing strategy. Hang on for an infotainment ride through agency life with storytelling at its core.
Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Growth from actor to agency CEO.Sketch comedy origins of That Funny Agency.Agile marketing—a That Funny Agency approach.Human-centric digital marketingOvercoming client education hurdlesResources:
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20:15 - And I think it's really interesting because marketers a lot of times and I've written about this in the past forget that like yeah you're your performance might be great. The search engine robots might say by the way you're doing it right but that doesn't necessarily mean you're doing it right it means you've managed to move needles that the robots say are important. Are you converting? Is it turning into money and at the end of the machine and so uh I think a lot of folks kind of miss that point and there's a lot of art there believe it or not and I'm sure you experienced this in determining whether or not the needles you've moved are actually the right needles to even look at I mean they they they people are focused on KPIs that are outdated sometimes and don't make sense.21:54 - Like oh yeah I can get you you know 200,000 views on YouTube, okay are they good views? Oh well are they in your target market? Are there people you know? And we run into it too in the podcast space it's like oh yeah I want you know, I want to be Joe Rogan. Does Joe Rogan's audience represent your ideal client and if that's the case you know maybe we can talk about how that might happen but for the vast majority of the businesses out there it really just doesn't make sense and you have to have to determine that.42:12 - They are the most important thing in your world. Treat them as such. Be it a place where you can respect that relationship more than anything else. Your spouse, your children your parents your sisters your friends your chosen family, and your family you're going to respect that. Be at a place that understands that team. Don't put it in a position where they're going to drop it and then look at them and say no you dropped the baton, no you ensure their success take care of them. And I'd say the last thing is relationships have to be partnerships if a client thinks of you as a partner and not a vendor you've done everything that we talked about today.13:37 - If you think you can do it alone you're a fool. If you're the smartest person in the room get out of that room, surround yourself with smarter wonderful people who have a proven track record people I've worked with in the past people I adore We call ourselves the TFA Avengers.15:33 - So the challenge has been I put to them we took two and a half years and I said all right guys let's look at the numbers here, I mean not bad considering like we were brand new right but I use up my Rolodex more or less. Kind of went through it now so we did some email marketing we dropped it out and we did some podcasting for a couple of things some content. I try to write my own LinkedIn's and we have social and it's all there but when I look at the numbers I go okay if I were my own client what would I say. The results aren't there so here's what we're doing, we are rebranding and repositioning still called That Funny Agency. I'm not changing that we are still powered by humor we're still in concept who we are but I brought in even better people to do this job who've done this before.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of legal marketing with Brendan Chard, Owner of The Modern Firm as he reveals the secrets to thriving in a niche that resists the usual marketing gimmicks. From his accidental beginnings to forming deep-rooted client relationships, Brendan's journey is a lesson in growing a boutique agency against all odds. Tune in for a mix of golden nuggets on business, marketing, and the art of scaling relationships – all wrapped in a bundle of canny insights and heartfelt stories.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Growth through deep client relationships.Strategies in competitive marketing niches.The power of organic growth via content.Challenges of scaling personalized service.Balancing growth with maintaining a lifestyle.Resources:
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14:27 - Brian: They go, oh well you know, I became a baker because I wanted to bake stuff and now I've got a business that I don't want to do the business I want to bake.
Brendan: Exactly. So our role is to really to try to make their life and their job easier by taking a big chunk of the business part that they don't want to do or they don't understand and just taking it off their plate so that they can do more of the lawyering that they really want to do in that direct relationships and helping their clients.
Brian: But working with lawyers it's gotta be in many ways like hurting cats right I mean there's a fair amount of they're getting paid to be right most of the time. Do they walk in the room and tell you what to do and you're like no no you can't do that cause that's crazy.
Brian: Yeah, that definitely happens it's a really highly educated analytical smart group of people and they are used to you know, a lot of them are also used to arguing and getting their way so yeah, but they're also a lot of them you know they know when they're out of their lane and through educating and giving them more information they can really you know I think they grow to respect us as experts.
Brian: Eventually they figure out that you're in charge of this conversation and then they go okay fine.4:49 - But the differentiator with us is the relationship, we really invest a lot in getting to know our clients on a very deep level. Like I think a lot of our clients would consider us to be friends. We know like each other's names, of each other's kids, and dogs and you know it's like a very partner-oriented deep relationship with them.25:02 - I'd say certainly have taken a lot of knocks over the years. I think one of the biggest ones, especially as your business grows to delegate, to really get comfortable with letting go. That was something that was sort of forced on me you know midway through I had a son born with some medical challenges and I really had to let go of some big parts of what I was doing in my day-to-day to make time for that and it really helped us grow over the years but I think that you know the only thing we don't get more of is time so as an owner the more that you can do to take things off your plate to be delegating to others that's just huge. And it you just got to to get comfortable with it. Somebody might not do it the same way you'd do it, they might do it better or different. It might not matter but I think that's something a lot of owners struggle with is just letting go of their way of doing things and trusting somebody to do it own way.3:54 - We've put out so much content we have so many clients in the marketplace, we have been very fortunate to have been riding the rankings in the Google wave for a long time so we get a lot of inbound traffic from people specifically looking for somebody to help them with their website. And for us, we're full service, we do websites we do content we do branding, and then you know all variety of online marketing organic local paid search, some social so it's the whole mix of services to really be like the outsourced marketing department for a small firm. But the differentiator with us is the relationship you know we really invest a lot in getting to know our clients on a very deep level.16:09 - I mean, I love it when our clients give us feedback and pushback because that helps to maybe push and evolve us and grow our thinking. But also, you know, they'll come in with an idea, but once they understand the other things that are being contemplated, for why a decision got made, it might be, you know, handicap accessibility, you know, dictates a way that we have to do a certain thing.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the candid world of growth marketing with Daniel Romano Co-founder & CEO of Good Moose, a maverick agency reshaping the industry's landscape. Discover trade secrets, the value of diversity, and how authentic relationship-building trumps templates. Get the insider scoop on how this agency turns marketing norms on its head for out-of-the-box success.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Romano shares successful agency traits.Good Moose's no-kickback approach.Selecting the right clients for growth.Building a diverse, multinational team.Confidence and resilience in entrepreneurship.Resources:
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20:26 - And I think in a world that it's becoming more globalized that becomes a critical piece of the puzzle because you know you cannot expect a team that it fully aligns with one kind of persona, one background to understand products that apply to a multicultural world that we're living in. And the second thing that I think it's critical you know from a culture standpoint and also the selection process of how we started building good moves from day one is the fact that I'm a foreigner made me double down on empathy and self-awareness and being very critical on the things that I see that make me feel comfortable or the things that maybe I don't understand and how I can help myself and the company to overcome those challenges by surrounding myself with the right people for the right challenges that we have.27:20 - And sometimes things feel like impossible tasks but the reality is only when you're out of your comfort zone really incredible things happen. But to achieve that you need to be resilient and not give up because you're going to get flat many times, you're going to do a lot of work that's not it's going to take you nowhere. But the reality is you need to keep on pushing and just hold it for as long as you need until those things start to trickle down. And the last one I think it's confidence which is something that you can either build or sometimes you know also from if you're lucky enough and you have a really good family they will help you build that as a kid. And I think that with that confidence that you're capable of doing things it's very hard to achieve anything.26:11 - I would say first one is self-awareness. Knowing what your strengths are knowing what are your weaknesses and surrounding yourself with the right team members that can help you be strong in all the places that you don't feel that you bring a lot of value to the table. I was saying that if you want a date you need to know if you're the best first date or the best third date for somebody and figure out your way to be in the place where you're at your prime. And I think that's a critical piece. And sometimes people forget to be critical with themselves or at least to take a look to see okay but I'm not that good there but maybe there's somebody who can be great and we can do great things together. This is the third agency that I'm involved with early stages to as founder is resilience.2:12 - So when I started thinking about the idea of creating Good Moose together with my partners I was very adamant to make sure that we're creating an agency with all the things that we love about the industry and with other things that we hated about the industry. And I had a very interesting tasting of that post acquisition of my previous company understanding that then you start talking about processes not people. You start talking about efficiencies and not how to make the right thing for the client or you start talking about let's not show that let's show that. So we created Good Moose on the three main premises. The first one is everybody that is on the table needs to have real actual media execution experience. We saw that there was a lot of I would say inefficiencies in big agencies people talking without knowing what they're talking about.13:04 - But what you can forecast is how much growth you're going to generate for your active clients and working on retention and working on growth of your clients can give you at least 70% of what you need to forecast for the growth that you're expecting to do. So I'm always very keen on focusing on things that we can fully control versus the things that maybe we don't have full control but we can just help them to happen. And sometimes luck plays a big component but once we have an account and the ones who are working with a client we know that it's in our hands to fully figure out what needs to be happening in order to get them where we want them to be.Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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