#219 How To Unlock CDP A Rating – GHG Verification For Top Carbon Disclosure Ratings

5 kesä · The ISO Show

00:29:02

In recent years there has been a growing need for transparency within sustainable action taken by businesses.

This is due to the rampant increase in greenwashing, which only serves to diminish the focus on genuine efforts, in addition to creating a culture of mistrust within stakeholders and consumers.

To combat this, certain organisations have taken on the task of encouraging and supporting the accurate public disclosure of environmental data. Such is the case with today’s focus, the Carbon Disclosure Project (CDP).

In this episode Mel Blackmore discusses what the Carbon Disclosure Project is, what is required to earn an A rating, provides some tips on how to get that A rating and explains the pros and cons with getting involved with the project.

You’ll learn

· What is the Carbon Disclosure Project?

· What are the requirements to achieve an A rating?

· Top tips for earning an A rating in the CDP

· What are the advantages of earning a CDP rating?

· What are the disadvantages of getting involved with the CDP?

Resources

· Carbon Disclosure Project

· Carbonology

· Contribute to Mel’s carbon verification commitment research by taking her Survey

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Mel discusses the Carbon Disclosure project, including what’s involved with taking part, how to achieve an A rating and the pros and cons of the project.

[03:00] Why is there a need for the CDP? An increased number of investors and financial institutions, in addition to clients are demanding more than just financial reports. They want to know what a company's environmental footprint is, and at this point, it's time to move on beyond simply making pledges.

Ultimately, key stakeholders are looking for a commitment to sustainability and for accessible information to help them understand how an organisation is managing its climate risks and opportunities. This is where CDP comes in.

A key component of getting the coveted A rating within CDP involves independent verification of greenhouse gas emissions.

[04:45] What is the Carbon Disclosure Project? CDP is a global non-profit that runs the world's leading environmental disclosure system. For over two decades, it has revolutionized how companies, cities, states, and regions report their environmental impacts. They ask thousands of organizations to disclose data on climate change, water security, and deforestation. This data is then used by investors, purchasers, and policymakers to make informed decisions.

The CDP questionnaire covers a wide range of topics, from governance and strategy to risk management, targets, and of course, greenhouse gas emissions. Companies receive a score from D- to A based on the completeness of their reporting, their level of awareness of environmental issues, their management of those issues, and ultimately, their leadership in addressing them.

[05:40] We want to hear from you: Mel is currently running some research around CDP and the key drivers behind carbon emission verification, and would appreciate your feedback if you have a few minutes to spare.

The results are completely anonymous, and it should only take 5 – 10 minutes. You can take the survey here.

Thank you in advance to any contributors!

[09:10] What is required to achieve an A Rating? – There are a number of key requirements, including:-

1. Comprehensive Disclosure and Data Quality: This is foundational. You need to provide accurate and complete data across all relevant sections of the CDP questionnaire. This includes detailed information on your Scope 1, Scope 2, and increasingly, your Scope 3 GHG emissions.

2. Strong Governance and Strategy: CDP looks for clear evidence that environmental issues are integrated into your company's core business strategy and that there's robust board and management oversight of climate-related matters. This means having a defined climate strategy, understanding your climate-related risks and opportunities, and demonstrating how you're incorporating these into your financial planning.

3. Verified Data: To truly hit that "A" list, your Scope 1 and Scope 2 GHG emissions, and a significant portion of your Scope 3, must be independently verified. This isn't just a suggestion; it's an essential criterion for the leadership level. Independent verification provides crucial assurance to stakeholders that your reported emissions data is accurate, reliable, and trustworthy. It also minimises the risk of “Greenwashing”.

4. Science-Based Targets and a Robust Climate Transition Plan: CDP is increasingly emphasizing the need for companies to set ambitious, science-based targets for emissions reductions, aligned with a 1.5°C global warming scenario. In addition, having a publicly available, credible climate transition plan that outlines how you will achieve these targets, including specific actions, metrics, and progress tracking mechanisms, is now a must for "A" list companies.

5. Value Chain Engagement: For many companies, the most significant emissions lie within their supply chain. To achieve an "A" rating, you'll need to demonstrate robust engagement with your suppliers to measure and reduce their emissions, and address environmental impacts across your entire value chain.

6. Continuous Improvement and Transparency: The "A" rating isn't a one-off achievement. It reflects a commitment to continuous improvement in your environmental performance and a willingness to be transparent about your journey, including challenges and successes.

[15:05] Top tips for achieving a CDP A Rating:-

Tip 1: Plan Ahead and Start Early. CDP reporting is an annual cycle, and it's complex. Don't wait until the last minute! Start gathering your data, assessing your internal processes, and identifying any gaps well in advance. This includes planning for your verification process.

Tip 2: Invest in Robust Data Management Systems. Accurate and comprehensive data collection is paramount. Consider leveraging sustainability software that can help you track, calculate, and manage your GHG emissions data efficiently. This reduces manual errors and streamlines the reporting process.

Tip 3: Understand the Verification Process. This is where an accredited verification body, like Carbonology, becomes invaluable. Verification Bodies work to an internationally recognized standard, typically ISO 14064-3, to ensure the accuracy and reliability of your GHG emissions data. The process involves:

· Defining the scope: What emissions are being verified?

· Data review: Examining your underlying data, methodologies, and calculations.

· Site visits (where applicable): Physically verifying operational data.

· Report generation: Providing an assurance statement on the accuracy of your emissions.

Tip 4: Engage with a CDP-Accredited Verification Body. CDP specifically requires third-party verification from an independent external organization that is accredited and competent. Look for bodies with proven experience and accreditation to international standards like ISO 14064. They can guide you through the process, identify areas for improvement, and ensure your data meets the stringent requirements for leadership points.

Tip 5: Conduct a Gap Analysis. Before you even begin your disclosure, perform a thorough gap assessment against the latest CDP questionnaire and essential criteria. This will highlight areas where your current disclosures fall short and allow you to address them proactively.

Tip 6: Focus on Quality over Quantity. While comprehensive disclosure is important, ensure the quality and accuracy of your data. It's better to provide high-quality, verified data for a focused set of emissions than to report broadly with unverified or unreliable numbers.

Tip 7: Train Your Team. Ensure your internal team understands the CDP requirements and best practices for sustainability reporting and data collection. Building internal capacity is essential for maintaining high-quality disclosures year after year.

[20:35] The pros of voluntary disclosures:

Enhanced Reputation and Brand Value: Disclosing and performing well on platforms like CDP showcases your commitment to environmental responsibility. This can significantly boost your reputation among customers, employees, and the wider public, attracting conscious consumers and talent.

Risk Management and Resilience: The disclosure process forces companies to identify and assess their environmental risks – from climate change impacts to resource scarcity. This proactive approach allows for better risk mitigation strategies, building greater business resilience.

Cost Savings and Operational Efficiency: The process of measuring and managing environmental impacts often reveals opportunities for greater efficiency, such as reduced energy consumption, waste reduction, and optimized resource use, leading to tangible cost savings.

Competitive Advantage: Being a leader in environmental transparency can differentiate your company in the marketplace, especially as sustainability becomes a key consideration for clients and supply chain partners.

Preparation for Future Regulation: Voluntary disclosure puts you ahead of the curve. As environmental regulations become increasingly stringent globally, companies with established reporting mechanisms will be better prepared to meet mandatory requirements.

Innovation and Strategic Planning: The disclosure process encourages long-term strategic planning around environmental impact, driving innovation in products, services, and processes.

Benchmarking and Peer Learning: CDP provides a framework for measuring and tracking your performance over time and allows you to benchmark yourself against industry peers, identifying areas for improvement and learning from best practices.

[14:15] The cons of voluntary disclosures?:

Resource Intensive: Comprehensive ESG reporting, especially to the level required for an "A" rating, can be costly and time-consuming, particularly for smaller companies with limited resources. It requires dedicated personnel, data collection, and often external consulting or verification services.

Risk of Greenwashing: If disclosure isn't backed by genuine action and verified data, there's a significant risk of "greenwashing" – providing a misleading impression of your sustainability efforts. This can lead to reputational damage, loss of trust, and even legal scrutiny if claims are found to be unsubstantiated. This is precisely why independent verification is so crucial.

Lack of Accountability (without verification): Without external verification or assurance, the reliability and accuracy of self-reported data can be questioned, diminishing the value and trustworthiness of the disclosure. This is a major concern for investors who demand the same robustness for non-financial data as they do for financial data.

Potential for Negative Public Scrutiny: Once you disclose, your data is public. This means your environmental performance, or lack thereof, can be scrutinized by activists, media, and the public. Companies must be prepared to address any critical feedback.

If you’d like any assistance with carbon verification, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#220 EcoVadis – Platform Your Passport To Winning Sustainable Contracts
18 kesä· The ISO Show
We’re past the point of simply saying you’re committed to sustainability, it’s time for tangible and verified action.

This is what many are calling for in response to the recent rise in Greenwashing and subsequent erosion of trust from consumers and other stakeholders regarding any green claims.

As a result, a number of voluntary disclosure schemes have been created to help benchmark and verify organisation’s claims, should they choose to participate. One example being the focus of today’s episode: EcoVadis.

In this episode Mel Blackmore continues with our voluntary disclosure’s series, discussing the ESG rating scheme EcoVadis, what is required to earn a Platinum rating and provides some tips on how to get that Platinum rating.

You’ll learn

· What is EcoVadis?

· What are the requirements to achieve a Platinum rating?

· Top tips for earning an Platinum rating for EcoVadis

· What are the advantages of earning a Platinum rating?

· What are the disadvantages of getting involved with EcoVadis?

Resources

· EcoVadis

· Carbonology

· Contribute to Mel’s carbon verification commitment research by taking her Survey

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Mel discusses the voluntary disclosure scheme: EcoVadis, including what’s involved with taking part, how to achieve a Platinum rating and the pros and cons of being benchmarked.

[03:00] Why is there a need for EcoVadis? An increased number of investors and financial institutions, in addition to clients are demanding more than just financial reports. They want to know what a company's environmental footprint is, and at this point, it's time to move on beyond simply making pledges.

This extends to other elements of governance as EcoVadis doubles as a crucial ESG rating scheme.

[04:30] What is EcoVadis? EcoVadis is a globally recognised provider of business sustainability ratings. They assess companies' environmental, social, and ethical performance across 21 indicators and four main themes: Environment, Labor & Human Rights, Ethics, and Sustainable Procurement.

EcoVadis aims to help organisations manage their supply chain sustainability risks and opportunities. If you're a supplier, you've likely received a request from a customer to complete an EcoVadis assessment.

The assessment process involves completing a detailed questionnaire, submitting supporting documentation, and then EcoVadis analysts review your submission and assign a scorecard. This scorecard provides a detailed breakdown of your performance across the four themes and assigns an overall score and a medal status: Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum.

It’s this medal status that’s crucial, especially those coveted Gold and Platinum badges, which signal to your customers that you are a top-tier performer in sustainability.

[05:40] We want to hear from you: Mel is currently running some research around CDP and the key drivers behind carbon emission verification, and would appreciate your feedback if you have a few minutes to spare.

The results are completely anonymous, and it should only take 5 – 10 minutes. You can take the survey here.

Thank you in advance to any contributors!

[06:05] What is required to achieve an Platinum Rating? – While EcoVadis assesses across four themes, the 'Environment' theme often carries significant weight, and within that, greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions management is paramount for the higher ratings.

To earn an EcoVadis Platinum rating, you'll generally need to achieve an overall score between 78-100 out of 100. Key areas that you need to excel in include:-

1) Comprehensive Environmental Management System: This includes policies, actions, and reporting on a wide range of environmental issues. For Platinum, EcoVadis expects to see highly structured and systematic approaches to environmental management.

2) Robust GHG Emissions Management: For this you need to:

· Measure your GHG Emissions: Accurately calculate your Scope 1, Scope 2, and significant Scope 3 emissions. EcoVadis places increasing emphasis on Scope 3, as it often represents the largest portion of a company's footprint.

· Set Ambitious Targets: Have clear, quantitative targets for GHG emission reduction. Aligning these with a science-based target (SBTi) is highly advantageous and often a de facto requirement for Platinum.

· Implement Reduction Initiatives: Demonstrate concrete actions you are taking to reduce emissions, such as investing in renewable energy, improving energy efficiency, optimizing logistics, or engaging your supply chain.

3) Independent Verification of GHG Emissions Data: This is a non-negotiable for Platinum and often for Gold. EcoVadis awards significant points for having your Scope 1 and Scope 2 GHG emissions (and increasingly, relevant Scope 3 categories) independently verified by a third-party accredited body. This provides assurance that your reported data is accurate and reliable. As a CDP accredited verification body, we routinely help companies through this process, and it makes a profound difference in their EcoVadis and overall ESG scores.

4) Strong Policies and Actions Across All Themes: While we're focusing on environment, remember Platinum requires excellence across all four EcoVadis themes:

· Labor & Human Rights

· Ethics

· Sustainable Procurement

Implementing Standards such as ISO 37001 (Anti-Bribery and Corruption), ISO 27001 (Information Security), ISO 20400 (Sustainable Procurement) can help put some of these in place.

5) Effective Reporting and Transparency: You need to clearly articulate your policies, actions, and performance data within the EcoVadis questionnaire. This includes providing high-quality, relevant supporting documentation. To get the best result, don't just tick boxes; provide evidence!

6) Continuous Improvement: EcoVadis looks for evidence of ongoing improvement. It's not a one-off assessment; it's about demonstrating a commitment to continually raising your standards.

[14:20] How to get an EcoVadis Platinum Rating with verified data? – Here’s a few tips:

· Start Early and Plan Strategically: Don't wait until the last minute. The EcoVadis assessment requires significant time and effort. Plan your data collection, policy development, and verification process well in advance.

· Understand the EcoVadis Methodology: Download the EcoVadis methodology and scoring criteria. These double as guidance documents that explain what they're looking for in each section. Tailor your responses and documentation accordingly.

· Invest in carbon accounting software: Accurate and consistent data is paramount. Implement systems (whether software or well-organized spreadsheets) to track your energy consumption, waste, water use, and especially your GHG emissions.

· Prioritize GHG Emissions Verification: Engage a reputable, accredited third-party verification body (like Carbonology 😉) to audit your Scope 1 and Scope 2 GHG emissions. Ensure the verification covers the reporting period relevant to your EcoVadis assessment. This provides the external assurance EcoVadis demands.

· Address All Four Themes: While environmental performance is crucial, don't neglect Labor & Human Rights, Ethics, and Sustainable Procurement. A weak score in one area can pull down your overall rating.

· Leverage External Expertise: If you're new to EcoVadis or aiming for a significant jump in your score, consider consulting with experts. They can help you identify gaps, optimize your strategy, and ensure your documentation meets EcoVadis's requirements. Blackmores consultants are able to provide support if you’re seeking an EcoVadis rating.

· Continuous Improvement: Use the EcoVadis scorecard feedback to identify areas for improvement. Implement corrective actions and integrate them into your ongoing sustainability strategy. This commitment to continuous improvement is a strong indicator of a Platinum-level company.

[16:40] The pros and cons of EcoVadis: Many of these share similarities with the Carbon Disclosure Project, which we covered in a previous episode. To summarise:

Pros:

· Enhanced Reputation and Brand Value

· Risk Management and Resilience

· Cost Savings and Operational Efficiency

· Competitive Advantage

· Innovation and Strategic Planning

· Benchmarking and Peer Learning

Cons:

· Resource Intensive

· Potential for Negative Public Scrutiny

If you’d like any assistance with carbon verification, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List
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#219 How To Unlock CDP A Rating – GHG Verification For Top Carbon Disclosure Ratings
5 kesä· The ISO Show
In recent years there has been a growing need for transparency within sustainable action taken by businesses.

This is due to the rampant increase in greenwashing, which only serves to diminish the focus on genuine efforts, in addition to creating a culture of mistrust within stakeholders and consumers.

To combat this, certain organisations have taken on the task of encouraging and supporting the accurate public disclosure of environmental data. Such is the case with today’s focus, the Carbon Disclosure Project (CDP).

In this episode Mel Blackmore discusses what the Carbon Disclosure Project is, what is required to earn an A rating, provides some tips on how to get that A rating and explains the pros and cons with getting involved with the project.

You’ll learn

· What is the Carbon Disclosure Project?

· What are the requirements to achieve an A rating?

· Top tips for earning an A rating in the CDP

· What are the advantages of earning a CDP rating?

· What are the disadvantages of getting involved with the CDP?

Resources

· Carbon Disclosure Project

· Carbonology

· Contribute to Mel’s carbon verification commitment research by taking her Survey

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Mel discusses the Carbon Disclosure project, including what’s involved with taking part, how to achieve an A rating and the pros and cons of the project.

[03:00] Why is there a need for the CDP? An increased number of investors and financial institutions, in addition to clients are demanding more than just financial reports. They want to know what a company's environmental footprint is, and at this point, it's time to move on beyond simply making pledges.

Ultimately, key stakeholders are looking for a commitment to sustainability and for accessible information to help them understand how an organisation is managing its climate risks and opportunities. This is where CDP comes in.

A key component of getting the coveted A rating within CDP involves independent verification of greenhouse gas emissions.

[04:45] What is the Carbon Disclosure Project? CDP is a global non-profit that runs the world's leading environmental disclosure system. For over two decades, it has revolutionized how companies, cities, states, and regions report their environmental impacts. They ask thousands of organizations to disclose data on climate change, water security, and deforestation. This data is then used by investors, purchasers, and policymakers to make informed decisions.

The CDP questionnaire covers a wide range of topics, from governance and strategy to risk management, targets, and of course, greenhouse gas emissions. Companies receive a score from D- to A based on the completeness of their reporting, their level of awareness of environmental issues, their management of those issues, and ultimately, their leadership in addressing them.

[05:40] We want to hear from you: Mel is currently running some research around CDP and the key drivers behind carbon emission verification, and would appreciate your feedback if you have a few minutes to spare.

The results are completely anonymous, and it should only take 5 – 10 minutes. You can take the survey here.

Thank you in advance to any contributors!

[09:10] What is required to achieve an A Rating? – There are a number of key requirements, including:-

1. Comprehensive Disclosure and Data Quality: This is foundational. You need to provide accurate and complete data across all relevant sections of the CDP questionnaire. This includes detailed information on your Scope 1, Scope 2, and increasingly, your Scope 3 GHG emissions.

2. Strong Governance and Strategy: CDP looks for clear evidence that environmental issues are integrated into your company's core business strategy and that there's robust board and management oversight of climate-related matters. This means having a defined climate strategy, understanding your climate-related risks and opportunities, and demonstrating how you're incorporating these into your financial planning.

3. Verified Data: To truly hit that "A" list, your Scope 1 and Scope 2 GHG emissions, and a significant portion of your Scope 3, must be independently verified. This isn't just a suggestion; it's an essential criterion for the leadership level. Independent verification provides crucial assurance to stakeholders that your reported emissions data is accurate, reliable, and trustworthy. It also minimises the risk of “Greenwashing”.

4. Science-Based Targets and a Robust Climate Transition Plan: CDP is increasingly emphasizing the need for companies to set ambitious, science-based targets for emissions reductions, aligned with a 1.5°C global warming scenario. In addition, having a publicly available, credible climate transition plan that outlines how you will achieve these targets, including specific actions, metrics, and progress tracking mechanisms, is now a must for "A" list companies.

5. Value Chain Engagement: For many companies, the most significant emissions lie within their supply chain. To achieve an "A" rating, you'll need to demonstrate robust engagement with your suppliers to measure and reduce their emissions, and address environmental impacts across your entire value chain.

6. Continuous Improvement and Transparency: The "A" rating isn't a one-off achievement. It reflects a commitment to continuous improvement in your environmental performance and a willingness to be transparent about your journey, including challenges and successes.

[15:05] Top tips for achieving a CDP A Rating:-

Tip 1: Plan Ahead and Start Early. CDP reporting is an annual cycle, and it's complex. Don't wait until the last minute! Start gathering your data, assessing your internal processes, and identifying any gaps well in advance. This includes planning for your verification process.

Tip 2: Invest in Robust Data Management Systems. Accurate and comprehensive data collection is paramount. Consider leveraging sustainability software that can help you track, calculate, and manage your GHG emissions data efficiently. This reduces manual errors and streamlines the reporting process.

Tip 3: Understand the Verification Process. This is where an accredited verification body, like Carbonology, becomes invaluable. Verification Bodies work to an internationally recognized standard, typically ISO 14064-3, to ensure the accuracy and reliability of your GHG emissions data. The process involves:

· Defining the scope: What emissions are being verified?

· Data review: Examining your underlying data, methodologies, and calculations.

· Site visits (where applicable): Physically verifying operational data.

· Report generation: Providing an assurance statement on the accuracy of your emissions.

Tip 4: Engage with a CDP-Accredited Verification Body. CDP specifically requires third-party verification from an independent external organization that is accredited and competent. Look for bodies with proven experience and accreditation to international standards like ISO 14064. They can guide you through the process, identify areas for improvement, and ensure your data meets the stringent requirements for leadership points.

Tip 5: Conduct a Gap Analysis. Before you even begin your disclosure, perform a thorough gap assessment against the latest CDP questionnaire and essential criteria. This will highlight areas where your current disclosures fall short and allow you to address them proactively.

Tip 6: Focus on Quality over Quantity. While comprehensive disclosure is important, ensure the quality and accuracy of your data. It's better to provide high-quality, verified data for a focused set of emissions than to report broadly with unverified or unreliable numbers.

Tip 7: Train Your Team. Ensure your internal team understands the CDP requirements and best practices for sustainability reporting and data collection. Building internal capacity is essential for maintaining high-quality disclosures year after year.

[20:35] The pros of voluntary disclosures:

Enhanced Reputation and Brand Value: Disclosing and performing well on platforms like CDP showcases your commitment to environmental responsibility. This can significantly boost your reputation among customers, employees, and the wider public, attracting conscious consumers and talent.

Risk Management and Resilience: The disclosure process forces companies to identify and assess their environmental risks – from climate change impacts to resource scarcity. This proactive approach allows for better risk mitigation strategies, building greater business resilience.

Cost Savings and Operational Efficiency: The process of measuring and managing environmental impacts often reveals opportunities for greater efficiency, such as reduced energy consumption, waste reduction, and optimized resource use, leading to tangible cost savings.

Competitive Advantage: Being a leader in environmental transparency can differentiate your company in the marketplace, especially as sustainability becomes a key consideration for clients and supply chain partners.

Competitive Advantage: Being a leader in environmental transparency can differentiate your company in the marketplace, especially as sustainability becomes a key consideration for clients and supply chain partners.

Preparation for Future Regulation: Voluntary disclosure puts you ahead of the curve. As environmental regulations become increasingly stringent globally, companies with established reporting mechanisms will be better prepared to meet mandatory requirements.

Innovation and Strategic Planning: The disclosure process encourages long-term strategic planning around environmental impact, driving innovation in products, services, and processes.

Benchmarking and Peer Learning: CDP provides a framework for measuring and tracking your performance over time and allows you to benchmark yourself against industry peers, identifying areas for improvement and learning from best practices.

[14:15] The cons of voluntary disclosures?:

Resource Intensive: Comprehensive ESG reporting, especially to the level required for an "A" rating, can be costly and time-consuming, particularly for smaller companies with limited resources. It requires dedicated personnel, data collection, and often external consulting or verification services.

Risk of Greenwashing: If disclosure isn't backed by genuine action and verified data, there's a significant risk of "greenwashing" – providing a misleading impression of your sustainability efforts. This can lead to reputational damage, loss of trust, and even legal scrutiny if claims are found to be unsubstantiated. This is precisely why independent verification is so crucial.

Lack of Accountability (without verification): Without external verification or assurance, the reliability and accuracy of self-reported data can be questioned, diminishing the value and trustworthiness of the disclosure. This is a major concern for investors who demand the same robustness for non-financial data as they do for financial data.

Potential for Negative Public Scrutiny: Once you disclose, your data is public. This means your environmental performance, or lack thereof, can be scrutinized by activists, media, and the public. Companies must be prepared to address any critical feedback.

If you’d like any assistance with carbon verification, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List
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#218 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Derek Hall
21 touko· The ISO Show
The world of ISO is often stumbled into as a result of being tasked with either Implementing or maintaining a Standard for a business. It is rarely a desired career path, and yet there are thousands of ISO professionals from all corners of the globe.

We’re continuing with our latest mini-series where we introduce members of our team, to explore how they fell into the world of ISO and discuss the common challenges they face while helping clients achieve ISO certification.

In this episode we introduce Derek Hall, a Senior Isologist® and Sustainability Lead at Blackmores, to learn about his journey from spending 40 years in the printing industry to becoming an ISO Consultant, and what drives him to help clients on their ISO journey.

You’ll learn

· What is Derek’s role at Blackmores?

· What does Derek enjoy outside of consultancy?

· What path did Derek take to become an ISO Consultant?

· What is the biggest challenge he’s faced when implementing ISO Standards?

· What is Derek’s biggest achievement?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· Climate Change Amendment Workshop

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – We introduce Derek Hall, a Senior Isologist® here at Blackmores, to discuss his journey towards becoming an ISO consultant who specialises in ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and ISO 22716.

[03:45] What is Derek’s role at Blackmores? Derek is a Senior Isologist® with Blackmores, supporting companies with maintaining systems, undertaking internal audits, and supporting with implementing new systems to gain certification utilising our Isology methodology.

His passion lies in the realm of sustainability, embedding it within the management systems of many of our clients regardless of any certification to any dedicated sustainability Standard.

Derek was worked with a number of sectors, including:-

· Media

· Printing

· Constructions

· Cosmetics

· Recycling

· Electrical

· Public Sector & NHS

Derek enjoys the learning aspect of working with new industries, and values the input from all personnel involved, from top management to those on the shop floor. He well and truly immerses himself within each company he works with to learn about their values and how ISO can best support their vision.

[08:30] What does Derek enjoy doing outside of consultancy?: Derek has a few varied hobbies, including oil painting born out of his other passion, photography. He often uses his own photos as subject matter for his paintings.

He also trains 4-5 times a week at his local karate club, which caters for all ages and skill sets. Derek has diligently worked his way up to black belt over the 17 years he’s been attending, and offers his skills to teach sessions.

He appreciates the respect that karate teaches, in addition to gaining more knowledge on other points of view. With such a varied class, there’s always something new to learn.

The Australian based club he attends is called GKR Karate.

[12:20] What was Derek’s path towards becoming an ISO Consultant?: Derek’s journey starts back in the 60’s, where he worked in commercial photography, taking pictures on the progress of various building works, and products for furniture stores.

He used to work with plate photography, which was a rather old school method even back then! This was coupled with more modern methods such as 35 millimeter film. He recalls witnessing the building of the Thames barrier, taking pictures to help monitor the amount of water coming through the barrier.

After that he moved onto work for a printing company in Barnet (Hertfordshire), which specialized in advertisements and signage for furniture stores. From the shop floor Derek worked his way up to becoming a printer operative.

This company evolved to include screen printing, which allowed for more versatile applications such as clothing or certain plastics.

After spending 3 and a half years there he moved on with a friend to start their own printing company in Watford, which continued until the 70’s.

In the 70’s Derek joined a much larger printing company based in Southgate London. Here he was involved in the printing of cinema posters for theatres, and musical groups. Derek remained there for 40 years, watching it evolve to larger scale printing for retail markets such as HMV Records and curry’s, in addition to bus advertisements.

During the 90’s, there was a larger push for quality Standards, their clients wanted more assurance that they were following established guidelines and could produce the quality they were after. So, Derek was tasked with Implementing BS 5750, ISO 9001’s precursor, and BS 7750, ISO 14001’s precursor.

The company then got involved in an eco management audit scheme called EMAS, which required the reporting of environmental impacts. It was similar to ISO 14001, but it’s regulatory reporting requirements more closely align with modern schemes such as ESOS.

They also introduced other schools of thinking such as Kaizen, for the purpose of continual improvement.

At this point, Derek became very involved with sustainability standards, and developed a concept called ‘The Tree of Sustainability’, which included 9 branches for improvement. This was introduced due to the fact that their industry by its current nature, wasn’t very sustainable. There was a lot that could be done to reduce their impact.

Through developing that project Derek got involved with the DTR project called ‘The Sigma Guidelines’, a backed scheme run by the BSI forum and The Accountability Institute. These guidelines outlined a 3-year project to identify what sustainability meant to them and how it could apply to their industry.

The result of their work on this project was then submitted to various awards, netting them a number of sustainability awards and The Accountability Institute Awards.

That company continued its operations until 2007, leading to Derek joining Blackmores first year of operation in 2008.

Derek is leading us down a similar sustainability path by encouraging us to become a signatory of the Terra Carta, an initiative including 100 different actions for nature, people and planet.

[26:40] What is Derek’s favourite aspect of being a Consultant? – Derek has a few, including:

Building relationships with clients – Many of Dereks clients have been working with him for over 10 years. He’s as much friends with them as he is a work colleague.

Flexible approach – Consultancy can be delivered in many different ways, allowing for hybrid working. This flexible approach also applies to the way we achieve internal targets, with each member of the team being given specific goals with the freedom to choose how they reach them. Everyone has their own way of working, and we encourage all members of the team to work how they like with the opportunity to learn from each other.

[28:35] What Standards does Derek specilaise in and why? Starting with:

· ISO 9001 Quality Management: A core foundation that many businesses start with when diving into the world of ISO Standards. Derek started with it’s predecessor, and has watched it develop over the years. He appreciates the value it can bring, especially to SME’s who are looking for a scalable model for success.

· ISO 14001 Environmental Management: Derek is a fan of sustainability in general, and encourages everyone to implement some of it’s requirements as part of any project.

· ISO 22716 Good Manufacturing Practices for the Cosmetics Industry: A rather niche quality standard for the cosmetic industry, this Standards works well in collaboration with ISO 9001 for a more holistic approach.

· ISO 45001 Health and Safety Management: Derek picked up this Standard as a result of his work with the construction industry. It’s importance as a tool to prevent harm to humans cannot be understated.

· ESG: Derek has been working closely with his colleague, Ali Henshaw, to develop an ISO based framework to tackle ESG requirements. This includes inputs and requirements from guidance standards such as ISO 20400 (Sustainable Procurement) and ISO 26000 (Social Responsibility)

· ISO 22301 Business Continuity: A lot of organisations are looking to implement aspects of business continuity as a result of the ever-changing resilience landscape.

[32:20] The link between business continuity and climate change: We have seen client requirements evolve to include various elements of business continuity in response to the increasing threats of cyber incidents and climate change related issues.

This is reflected in the recently introduced Climate Change Amendment to many commonly implemented ISO Standards. This requirement ensures that businesses consider their impact on climate change in addition to, how and if they would be affected in turn. If you would like to learn more about this, listen to a previous episode or watch our Workshop playback.

[34:20] What is the biggest challenge Derek had faced during a project and how did he overcome it?: Derek took on the challenge of implementing ISO 22716, when he knew very little about the Standard and the cosmetics industry as a whole. Though there were a few stumbles on his first attempt, they managed to get certified without issue.

That same company then wanted his help to implement ISO 14001, which is a tough ask for the cosmetics industry. There are a lot of factors to consider, such as:

· What is their environmental impact?

· Where are you sourcing materials?

· Are the ingredients shipped from across the globe or sourced locally?

· Is there any animal testing involved?

· How sustainable was their supply chain?

There was a lot to get through, but it was a beneficial choice to get a full picture of their environmental cost.

Later, the company opted to implement ISO 9001 in addition to their existing Iso 22716 and ISO 14001 certifications. This fit nicely as both ISO 22716 and ISO 9001 are quality based Standards, they complemented each other and created an effective and holistic management system.

[27:20] What is Derek’s proudest achievement? Derek received an MBE from the late Queen for services in the environment in 2005. This was earned through his sustainability work within the print industry.

For those not familiar, the Queens Award (now the King’s Award) is a prestigious award that requires 3 levels of review and vetting before winners can be announced. It includes checking evidence provided and the financials involved to verify if applicants have achieved what they say they have achieved.

Derek, along with his wife and daughters, were invited to the palace to meet the queen and receive his award.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing ISO standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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#217 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Alison Henshaw
13 touko· The ISO Show
ISO consultancy isn’t a field many aspire to enter, mostly because many don’t know it exists until you’re tasked with either managing an existing ISO Management System or implementing a brand new one.

We’re continuing with our latest mini-series where we introduce members of our team, to explore how they fell into the world of ISO and discuss the common challenges they face while helping clients achieve ISO certification.

In this episode we introduce Alison Henshaw, an Isologist® at Blackmores, to learn about her journey from aspiring pub-landlord to becoming an ISO Consultant, and what drives her to help clients on their ISO journey.

You’ll learn

· What is Ali’s role at Blackmores?

· What does Ali enjoy outside of consultancy?

· What path did Ali take to become an ISO Consultant?

· What is the biggest challenge she’s faced when implementing ISO Standards?

· What is Ali’s biggest achievement?

Resources

· Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – We introduce Alison Henshaw (Ali), an Isologist® here at Blackmores, to discuss her journey towards becoming an ISO consultant who specialises in ISO 20400 and ISO 26000.

[03:45] What is Ali’s role at Blackmores? Ali is an Isologist® with Blackmores, supporting companies with maintaining systems, undertaking internal audits, and supporting with implementing new systems to gain certification utilising our Isology methodology.

[04:00] What does Ali enjoy doing outside of consultancy?: Ali has a daughter aged 5, so a lot of her social life revolves around play dates and kids parties.

As a family, they are very outdoor orientated, enjoying long walks and camping. In the past Ali enjoyed swimming, often visiting family near the coast to make use of the more bracing bodies of water.

She also likes to craft, recently taking up knitting as her mum often knits for different charitable causes. So far, she’s mastering the art of the knitted rectangle, which lends itself nicely to scarves and blankets.

Lastly, Ali is also a fan of photography due to her father sharing a similar interest. Most of her subject matter revolves around family and the outdoors.

[06:45] What was Ali’s path towards becoming an ISO Consultant?: Ali states that none of her working roles so far have been purposeful, rather more serendipitous.

She started managing pubs at the age of 18, after which she did relief management where she would cover different manager absences in pubs near her home. The owner of the pub she was working with at the time was looking to sell, and for a time, her plan had to been to buy and run it. Unfortunately, as she was only 18, she needed to have some form of business qualification to allow her to progress with that.

This led to Ali starting a part-time business management degree, At the time one of her pub regulars was recruiting for the production departments on a shift basis. So she ended up packing wallpaper on a factory floor for 3 days a week while earning her degree.

Sadly, by the time she had earned her degree, the pub she wanted to buy had been knocked down and turned into a block of flats! Though, after working in a different industry for 2 years she came to reevaluate her desire to run pubs, and came to the conclusion that she rather preferred the manufacturing industry and it’s ability to create something.

Ali also enjoyed the people within the factory she had been working at, and opted to stay there with her mentor, the Technical Manager, who offered her a place in the technical floor. So began her new role as the quality assurance technician.

This progressed as Ali worked her way up through Assistant quality tech to quality tech, to assistant quality manager to quality manager. Her mentor at the time was phasing out to retire, so Ali was essentially his legacy plan.

When he did retire Ali became the Quality Technical R&D and Health and Safety Manager. While in that role Ali implemented ISO 9001, in addition to business research and development programmes for product and process development compliance. Which amounted to sitting on trade association technical committees, monitoring upcoming legislation and also contributing to British technical committees that helped write the legislation for the wall-coverings sector. She later went onto help them implement ISO 45001.

Ali then had her daughter, Angie, during lockdown. For as much as she loves the manufacturing sectors, the worktime for those roles isn’t very flexible. She knew that when looking back, she would rather have spent more time with her daughter than working, so she wanted to find something with a bit more flexibility to allow her to spend quality time with her family. It wasn’t an easy decision by any means, but she was drawn to consultancy due to the variety of work and clients and the increased flexibility it would allow.

She Started to work with Blackmores following lockdown, appreciating the family values that our business was built on. Here she shares the sentiment:

“I'm very rarely the smartest person in the room, and we learn so much from each other.” Going on to say that the varied background of Blackmores consultants offers insight into so many other industries, and she’s drawn on their experience of how to apply ISO Standards in the real world.

[14:15] What is Ali’s favourite aspect of being a Consultant? – Ali enjoys working with SME’s due to her background of working with a 4th generation family owned business. They can often see the value in ISO Standards, and Ali works with them to ensure that do what they do best while working towards certification.

Many businesses simply gain ISO as a tick box for tenders or stakeholder requirements, which isn’t necessarily bad, it’s just how things work in the real world. But Ali figures that if they have to get it, get it right by ensuring it drives internal improvements. Often times clients are pleasantly surprised by all the benefits of effective ISO implementation.

Ali’s favourite clause in Standards is 6.2 Objectives as they drive proactive improvement in businesses. The key is to truly embed them in business processes and practices to ensure they are being achieved.

This is something that even mature management systems can get wrong. She’s seen cases where Objectives were one person’s responsibility, which can lead to them being a separate part of the management system. They need that lightbulb moment from leadership to realise the function of objectives to drive the whole business by taking a more proactive stance.

Many times, Ali’s heard of fantastic internal initiatives being run in a business without them being tied to any objective. By making them an objective, people can make a case for more time, resources and people to complete it, in addition to making the outcome a quantifiable and measurable metric for continual improvement.

[17:35] Practice what we preach – Ali has helped re-shape how we at Blackmores approach our sustainability objectives, turning them into something we can measure the impact of.

As Ali states: “The want for perfection stops progress”. It admirable to strive for perfection, but it isn’t realistic and it often hinders any meaningful progress. When it comes to things like sustainability, you should want to drive improvement now.

[18:55] What Standards does Ali specilaise in and why? Starting with:

· ISO 20400 Sustainable Procurement: This is a guidance Standard thar businesses can align with to ensure their procurement practices are sustainable. This extends to the supply chain, expanding each businesses sphere of influence.

· ISO 26000 Social Responsibility: Another guidance Standard that acts a solid foundation for businesses looking at starting their ESG journey. It tackles the human element of sustainability, in addition to consideration for fair labour practices and community support.

· ISO 9001 Quality Management: The first Standard Ali implemented, and the core foundation that many businesses start with when diving into the world of ISO Standards.

· ISO 14001 Environmental Management: Ali is a fan of sustainability in general, enjoying it’s tangible impacts and the creativity in the many ways people can incorporate it into their business.

· ISO 45001 Health and Safety Management: The second standard Ali implemented, it’s also one of the core 3 ISO’s that businesses tend to implement. It’s importance as a tool to prevent harm to humans cannot be understated.

· ISO 50001 Energy Management and ISO 20121 Sustainable Events: Ali helps to audit these standards, once again these fall into her preference of sustainability as a focus.

It’s clear to see that Ali loves Sustainability and safety based Standards, and the reason is mostly due to ensuring there is a bright future for her daughter. Ultimately, she aims to help people and wants to work with Standards that can make a real difference.

[22:05] What is the biggest challenge Ali had faced during a project and how did he overcome it?: The confidence clients have in themselves. People are very knowledgeable about what they do and the processes involved, but because they aren’t familiar with ISO speak they feel very lost when implementing a standard.

Ali’s main role is translating that ISO speak, and assuring clients that they’re already covering key points such as risks, opportunities and what they’re doing to address them. For many businesses, it’s simply a case of dotting the I’s and crossing the t’s ahead of certification.

The challenge for Ali is to build that confidence in clients ahead of their Stage 1 and 2 Assessments. This is where internal audits come in handy, they act as dummy runs of the assessment. Ali can reaffirm what is meant by each clause and what it relates to in terms of the business activities or certain documentation.

She also reminds clients that they can question the assessor if they don’t understand how they’ve worded a questions. It’s up to the assessor to make themselves understood.

Assessors also understand that your management system will be immature on it’s first certification, it’s simply a starting point on which you’ll build and continually improve.

[27:15] What is Ali’s proudest achievement?

· Changing careers: Ali saw herself retiring in her previous role and so it was a significant change to make the leap to consultancy. She still loves the manufacturing and wall-covering industry, and will always have a keen interest in it, but she can now see herself retiring in a consultancy role.

· Having Angie: Her daughter is one of her proudest achievements, but it also scared everything out of her. It put her at her physical limit, and she’s quite happy to have an only child, ensuring that she gets to spend as much time with as possible while she’s growing up.

· Doing a skydive: As part of a ‘Before your 30’ list with friends, Ali took part in a skydive. Which she admits was horrendous and not something she would do again, but she’s proud to have pushed past the fear as getting out of your comfort zone is often the key to growth.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing ISO standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#216 What is Environmental Emergency Preparedness?
30 huhti· The ISO Show
Emergency preparedness is a term you’re likely familiar with regarding Health & Safety, but its application is also a key part of the Best Practice Environmental Management Standard, ISO 14001.

ISO 14001 aims to help organisations reduce their overall impact on the environment, and this includes mitigating and responding to any incidents that may adversely affect factors such as biodiversity and water quality in areas where your business is based.

While not applicable to every industry, there are many which need to take greater responsibility in the event of an environmental incident. ISO 14001 provides key guidance in how to create effective processes to ensure you respond swiftly, and in alignment with the law.

In this episode Ian Battersby explains what is meant by emergency preparedness and response within ISO 14001, and how that can apply to your business.

You’ll learn

· What is emergency preparedness and response in ISO 14001?

· How do you approach Clause 8.2 in ISO 14001?

· Planning for an environmental emergency

· Definitions of different types of emergency

· How can you prevent an environmental emergency?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· Learn more about ISO 14001

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Ian explains the purpose of clause 8.2 in ISO 14001, emergency preparedness and response.

[02:35] What is meant by ‘emergency preparedness and response’ in ISO 14001?: Many will be familiar with emergency preparedness and response in relation to Health and Safety. In Standards such as ISO 45001, it’s about ensuring there are plans in place to reasonably foresee and prevent any serious harm to a person or persons affected by our activities

The aim with Clause 8.2 in ISO 14001 is to minimise the risk an organisation poses to the environment. Though, these aren’t mutually exclusive and some environmental response plans can prevent harm to both people and the environment.

Ian seeks to clarify this clause further as many have a tendency to point towards their fire evacuation plan and fire drills as the first piece of evidence when demonstrating conformity to clause 8.2 in ISO 14001. While fire is very violent to the environment once it's occurred, the evacuation of people during such an event building offers little in the way of an environmental response.

[05:10] Breaking down Clause 8.2: Clause 8.1 states:

“The organization shall establish, implement and maintain the process(es) needed to prepare for and respond to potential emergency situations identified in 6.1.1.”

Like with many Standards, it references an early clause where you should be identifying the relevant emergency situations. Clause 6 focuses on risk and opportunities, and in the case of ISO 14001 this is where you’ll establish your environmental aspects and compliance obligations.

Specifically, Clause 6.1.2 states:

“Within the defined scope of the environmental management system, the organization shall determine the environmental aspects of its activities, products and services that it can control and those that it can influence, and their associated environmental impacts.”

This would take into consideration any abnormal conditions and reasonably foreseeable emergency situations.

So, this is where you should already have established the emergency situations for which you need to plan for. Risk management is a core of the standards and planning for emergency situations is a core of risk management. You don’t write plans in isolation; you will have already established what’s important.

[07:30] Planning for emergency: As stated in Clause 8.2:

“The organization shall plan:

a) to take actions to address its risks

b) how to:

1) integrate into environmental management system or other business processes;

2) evaluate the effectiveness of these actions.”

This is all part of the familiar PDCA cycle. From Ian’s perspective as an auditor, he won’t look at emergency plans first, instead looking at an organisations Aspects & Impacts Assessment.

The standard isn’t prescriptive on how you assess the impact of what you do or the risks. The methodology is your choice, but it is very explicit in that the content must include abnormal conditions and reasonably foreseeable emergency situations.

[09:40] What are the definitions for different types of emergency situations?

Normal situations are when everything operates as intended, Business as usual, the day-to-day activities you expect: E.G. Standard operation of machinery, a vehicle getting from A to B without issue.

Abnormal situations are when things aren’t quite right, not catastrophic, but not business as usual; you can still achieve your intended outcome, but maybe not as quickly or efficiently: E.G. machinery running inefficiently or perhaps using more fuel or lubricant than usual.

They don’t necessarily require an emergency plan, but you may want to monitor the severity of such situations and their potential for significant impact if unaddressed.

Emergency situations are serious events requiring immediate attention and which could cause significant environmental impacts. The type of emergency situation that could possibly occur will depend on the type of organisation, but common ones include fire or chemical / fuel spill.

[11:30] What is required by the Standard? – As stated:

You are required to:

A) plan to respond to prevent or mitigate adverse environmental impacts from emergencies; (not human)

B) respond to actual emergencies;

C) prevent or mitigate the consequences of emergencies;

D) periodically test the planned response;

E) review and revise the process, in particular after the occurrence of emergency or test;

F) provide relevant information and training, to relevant interested parties, including persons working under its control.

[13:00] Examples of Emergency Situations – We’ll look at a common one, fire. There are still 22,000 workplace fires in the UK each year, which is a significant environmental impact. That amounts to approximately 2,700 tonnes of carbon emissions annually. This in addition to the atmospheric toxins, ground/water contamination, resource loss, waste etc. So, in considering fire as an environmental emergency, these are the impacts.

IOSH states that the most common cause for workplace fires is faulty or misused electrical equipment, followed by flammable/combustible materials, dirt and clutter, human error, smoking and cooking.

One thing to note about those causes is that they are generally required to be controlled by specific legislation. So, you would be looking for a link between compliance obligations (or legal) register, the Aspects & Impacts Assessment and the controls in place to minimise the risks identified in both.

Faulty electrics would stand out, so you would look at what measures could be put in place to prevent such faults occurring, including:

· Preventive maintenance of equipment

· Inspection and testing of electrical fixed wiring

· Portable appliance testing

By demonstrating the processes in place to address these, you can evidence compliance obligations and the planning to reduce the possibility of an emergency situation arising. However, a fire may still occur

[15:40] Example emergency situation – Prevention: – You should look at the planning to prevent such a situation escalating into a full-blown emergency in order to prevent the environmental impact. This could include:

· The maintenance, inspection and testing of fire detection or suppression systems

· The inspection and servicing of firefighting equipment.

· Firefighting equipment training for personnel

Based on what you know about the causes of fire, you should examine smoking policies/practices, catering equipment maintenance, housekeeping, hazardous material management etc.

Proof of fire drills alone enough when it comes to emergency preparedness and response in ISO 14001. Especially from an auditor’s perspective, as how can you prove that your fire drills are useful in minimising the impact on the environment?

[17:15] Other emergency situations – Spillage: An area where you can more readily see that preparedness and response directly affects the environmental outcome is where there has been a spillage of some kind.

A spill of a lubricant on a shop floor, for instance, has the potential to cause a slip hazard, affecting the safety of people. The preventive measures, again, have similarities regardless of whether we’re talking safety or environment, but do differ in that we’re trying to prevent the lubricant then reaching the outside world and contaminating ground or water; that’s the environmental impact.

Waste disposal associated with the mopping of a spill; you may be dealing with hazardous waste, which must be disposed of in a controlled fashion under the law.

If you’d like assistance with ISO 14001, get in contact with us, we’d be happy to help.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#215 The Latest Trends On the Buy Side of the Voluntary Carbon Market
24 huhti· The ISO Show
Watch the Podcast Video on our YouTube Channel

There has been a global shift towards the sustainability effort in recent years, highlighted by various regulations and schemes aimed at businesses to help encourage a more sustainable way of operating.

This has led to more focus on the voluntary use of carbon markets, in which companies help to fund decarbonisation projects by buying carbon credits.

In this episode Mel is joined by Tiffany Cheung, the Corporate Engagement Lead at carbon markets data company AlliedOffsets, as they discuss the landscape of the market, including current trends, decarbonisation challenges in different sectors, and top tips for navigating the space.

You’ll learn

· What impact will corporate disclosures have on the carbon markets?

· What are the rates of decarbonisation across different sectors?

· What are the emerging buyer trends within the voluntary carbon market?

· What is an internal carbon price?

· How can companies use a carbon price to ensure that their sustainability goals are financially viable?

· How can AlliedOffsets’ data help companies when entering the carbon market?

· What are the critical steps businesses should take to mitigate price volatility and ensure that they're investing in high quality, impactful carbon offsetting projects?

Resources

· AlliedOffsets

· AlliedOffsets LinkedIn

· AlliedOffsets Corporate Emissions Data and Findings

· Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – Tiffany Cheung joins Mel to discuss buyer trends in the voluntary carbon market (VCM), including insights on the use of internal carbon prices and top tips for businesses looking to enter the market.

Don’t forget to catch-up on the previous episode where Tiffany explains what the voluntary carbon market is and gives an insight into the lifecycle of carbon credits.

[01:30] What impact will increased corporate disclosures have on the carbon markets? There are 2 main points:

1. Already on the Agenda: Increased corporate sustainability disclosure may already fit into the changes that are taking place within the thinking of a company. If a company is spending time on creating and publishing reports on their sustainability initiatives, it is likely that they will be exploring their options for how they can take action more broadly.This is likely to be associated with increased engagement with the voluntary carbon markets, both through offsetting of carbon footprints and investing in carbon credits or project developers.

2. Project Developer benefits: Project developers will likely benefit from increased insight to the kinds of projects that buyers are purchasing credits from. As a by-product, there may be more focused projects created based off what certain sectors are willing to offset or invest in.

[02:55] What are the rates of decarbonisation across different sectors? To give a macro view from the public data available in corporate sustainability reports over the last few years, the biggest total polluters by sector continue to be energy, maritime, transportation and materials and mining.

Looking at the positives, the energy sector, which has historically been the biggest polluter, has decreased its emissions in both scopes 1 and 2 since 2019. However, there’s still a very long way to go, and with major emitters recently rolling back their climate commitments, one shouldn’t assume that that trend will continue linearly.

Another sector facing an interesting decarbonization journey is aviation, whose emissions have been increasing in recent years, although not quite to pre-COVID pandemic levels. This sector will have to grapple with its emissions whilst contending with forecasted growth in both consumer and business travel over the next decade. Many aviation companies are both committed to Science Based Targets initiatives (SBTi) and fall under CORSIA (Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation), applying pressure on the sector to decarbonize as a whole.

On a positive note, 18 sectors assessed by AlliedOffsets have decreased their average carbon emissions in scope 2 over the past few years, due in large part to increased renewable energy sourcing and improved energy efficiency.

[07:10] What are the emerging buyer trends within the VCM?: AlliedOffsets are in a particularly good position to provide insight to this due to their comprehensive view of both historic buyer activity and new market entrants across the world.

Chinese and German manufacturers have become a steady presence in the market, distinguished by their especially detailed credit retirement information. They’ll go as far as to specify the products and operating periods that are being offset, showing really high levels of engagement with their environmental impact and giving clear insight on their targeted offsetting approach.

Another buyer trend to highlight is occurring within the Australian market, where AlliedOffsets is seeing lots of credit retirement associated with the carbon neutrality certification scheme Climate Active. This is driving most voluntary retirements from the region, particularly from real estate and pension funds.

[09:15] What is an internal carbon price? An internal carbon price is a specific cost or budget set by a company for the carbon or other greenhouse gas emissions that are associated with their specific business activities.

This is typically based off of something like the World Bank calculations on the cost of climate change to society, or it could be based on the price of carbon set by an compliance emissions trading scheme (ETS) that is local to that business.

[10:20] How can companies use a carbon price to ensure that their sustainability goals are financially viable?: For example, EasyJet has an internal carbon price that's based off of the UK emissions trading scheme. That internal carbon price is factored into the airline’s master financial models and that drives their 5 - 10 year long financial plans. That helps to determine things like the geographical routes that EasyJet operates, which can affect profitability. An internal carbon price makes emissions tangible and material, playing a role in the wider business decisions. An airline operator is considered a big emitter and is likely to already be exposed to some kind of compliance carbon scheme which has a financial impact on the company.

Nonetheless, having an internal carbon price can be useful regardless of how big your business is, as it can be used to budget certain activities and see where emissions might be centralised in a particular department.

An example of this in practice may be that you have an internal carbon price of £50 per tonne, you can take that to an emissions calculator or advisor to work out a budget based on the carbon footprint of different activities or departments in the business. The idea being that if you can identify the cost associated with the emissions created, you know how much to spend to decarbonize. This process may also highlight where you can make further reductions, i.e. reducing air travel and supporting staff on switching to less polluting forms of transport.

[12:55] How can AlliedOffsets data help companies interested in an internal carbon price?: AlliedOffsets has data on the carbon pricing programmes used by companies to set their internal carbon price, as well as the specific price itself for hundreds of different companies.

This dataset also includes companies that haven't chosen to use a particular pricing scheme but have set an internal carbon price based just off of their unique activities.

This helps to contextualize the current range of internal carbon prices and the logic behind them.

[13:50] The need for regular review: Internal carbon pricing is something that needs to be reviewed on a regular basis as the costs associated with emitting in some business locations is not going to remain the same. This can also be affected by national legislation, which can increase the financial risk of emitting.

Tiffany recommends reviewing your internal carbon pricing at least annually. They’re seeing an emerging trend within the environmental space where sustainability related impacts within a company are being sequestered into their wider financial operations.

The impacts of climate change are going to become more material to businesses in the very near future. As a result of this, it makes sense for businesses to assess their internal carbon price as part of their annual financial reviews.

[16:30] What are the critical steps businesses should take to mitigate price volatility and ensure that they're investing in high quality, impactful projects? Tiffany recommends the following steps:

1. Focus on decarbonising your business operations first and engaging with your suppliers to tackle scope 3 emissions as well. It’s more beneficial to both the business and environment for you to reduce emissions as much as possible, so you have a smaller residual footprint to offset.

2. Decide what kind of projects / carbon credits you want to spend money on, whether it's offsetting or investing. Besides the climatic impact, there are many co-benefits of carbon projects to choose from, such as improved biodiversity, water supply, or workplace gender equality. Knowing what is valuable to you and your business will help in the selection of these projects.

3. Build strong relationships with developers directly where possible and buy credits directly, in advance. This also has the benefit of ensuring a supply of carbon credits into the future without the worry about how the market might change or become more volatile within the next couple of years.

4. If your business is operating at quite a significant scale, it would be wise to work with another company that's focused on the voluntary carbon market, like AlliedOffsets. They can provide guidance and forecasting for the specific projects or sectors you’d like to buy from, reducing uncertainty on the future of the market.

[20:00] Have faith in the impact of the voluntary carbon market – The voluntary carbon market has been through a turbulent period of time, and it’s alright to feel cautious about entering a space which has been unstable in the past.

The concerns about reputational risk associated with offsetting have greatly reduced in the last few years, and it’s set to reduce further as the voluntary and compliance markets merge and integrity improves.

However, if you decide that offsetting isn’t right for your business, there are still other tools that you can take from the voluntary carbon markets to help drive decarbonisation, such as internal carbon pricing.

If you’d like to learn more about AlliedOffsets, visit their website!

If you’d like any assistance with carbon standards, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

· Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

· Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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#214 An Introduction to the voluntary carbon market
16 huhti· The ISO Show
Watch the Podcast Video on our YouTube Channel

No business can operate with zero emissions, there’s only so much you can reduce before you need to look at offsetting the remainder to truly achieve Net Zero.

Carbon offsetting comes in many forms, but the ones people will be most familiar with include purchasing carbon credits for nature restoration projects and tree planting efforts.

Historically, the voluntary carbon market has been troubled by project developers who haven’t operated their carbon offsetting projects to the environmental and social standards expected by buyers. With the use of offsets on the rise, it’s clear that there is a need for transparency and standardisation within these voluntary markets.

In this episode Mel is joined by Tiffany Cheung, the Corporate Engagement Lead at AlliedOffsets, to explain what the voluntary carbon market is, how carbon credits work from purchase to retirement and what quality controls are in place to ensure they are reliable.

You’ll learn

● Who are AlliedOffsets?

● What is the voluntary carbon market?

● What are carbon credits, and how do they work?

● What quality controls are in place for carbon credits?

● How will the voluntary carbon market affect future regulatory requirements?

● What does it mean to retire a carbon credit?

● What services do AlliedOffsets offer?

Resources

● AlliedOffsets website

● AlliedOffsets LinkedIn

● Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – Tiffany Cheung joins Mel to discuss the voluntary carbon market, explaining the carbon credit lifecycle and what quality controls are in place to ensure they are reliable.

[01:40] Who are AlliedOffsets?: AlliedOffsets aggregates data from over 30 carbon registries and compliance schemes as well as off-registry transactions to present the most comprehensive dataset on carbon offsetting activity globally.

Their data has been featured in publications such as the Financial Times, Forbes, The Guardian and many more.

[03:20] How did Tiffany get involved in carbon markets?: Tiffany has been working with AlliedOffsets for over a year, and a lot of their role as Corporate Engagement Lead includes talking to a variety of stakeholders on the buying side of the carbon market, understanding what their motivations for being in the space are, what their strategies are going into the future and their wider decarbonisation process. Tiffany also looks at their transactional activity and how that has changed over time.

Prior to their position at Allied Offsets, Tiffany worked in a major environmental advisory and brokerage firm based in London. There they gained a knowledge of both voluntary carbon markets as well as renewable energy markets in that space, this in addition to learning more about the accompanying compliance trading and risk side of things.

[06:00] What is the carbon market?: Carbon markets describe markets where carbon is translated from a greenhouse gas into an asset, or a commodity that can be traded. These tend to represent actual tonnes of atmospheric carbon dioxide that have been sequestered somewhere else in the world through various projects.

Compliance carbon markets work differently from voluntary carbon markets. Compliance carbon markets provide regulated ways of pricing carbon, both in terms of reducing emissions and generally making polluters aware of the environmental impact of their emissions in a financial way. They may be associated with the voluntary carbon market, also known as the VCM, or they may be referred to as a kind of carbon tax.

[07:05] What’s the difference between a voluntary carbon market and a non-voluntary carbon market? If you are engaging in the voluntary carbon market, there is no legislative impetus for you to be involved in it. It’s mostly driven by a business’ own desire to offset emissions.

The offsetting of residual emissions is done through the purchase of carbon credits, which are representative of 1 tonne of CO2 equivalent removed from the atmosphere.

If you offset all of your remaining emissions, then you may be able to claim carbon neutrality for the year that the credits apply to.

The benefits of carbon credit-issuing projects aren’t always related to solely greenhouse gas removal, and depending on a businesses motivations, you can help to fund a wide range of beneficial projects such as clean water provision or improved cook stoves which improve air quality in domestic settings.

[09:25] What type of organisations are leading the way with carbon credit purchasing? – AlliedOffsets has unique access to the transaction history across 30 different global registries, enabling them to provide an up to date and wide ranging view on the voluntary carbon market.

There is a very strong relationship between how polluting a sector is and how well engaged it is with the voluntary carbon markets. So major players include energy producers, aviation, maritime, ground transportation and mining and materials.

There is also an increase in financial services, technology and telecommunications services entering the carbon market. Tiffany expects this trend to continue with increased data centre usage and artificial intelligence driving up energy consumption across these sectors.

[11:10] How does the voluntary carbon market operate?: When a company first decides they want to buy carbon credits, ideally they would engage with a well-established broker or intermediary who can source a variety of carbon credits.

It’s helpful for the broker to know what sort of carbon credits or projects a company is looking to invest in. There’s a lot of different options, including:

● Forestry

● Alternative land use

● Blue Carbon

● Engineered carbon dioxide removal

The company will let the broker know how many tonnes of carbon credits they’d like to buy, attributed to a certain period of time or activity based on their quantification and existing carbon reporting.

Market prices will range quite significantly based off of what technology type or methodology you're going with, but most carbon credits are currently sub $15.

Once agreed, your intermediary will secure and retire the credits for you, from the registry and project developer.

Retiring a carbon credit means they are taken entirely off the market and they're considered to be “spent” or used. Nobody else can use those as an investment or offset at that point, and the purchasing company can consider their carbon footprint to have been neutralised for the specified period.

[12:00] What quality controls are in place for the voluntary carbon market? While there isn't a master registry, there are several registries across the world that generally dominate the market. They vary in terms of the methodologies that they may or may not specialise in, as well as with geographies. The biggest ones that you're most likely to see in the market are known as VCS, GS, ACR, and CAR. These account for about 80% of the total market volume by retirement and issuance.

The way that these registries work is that they perform a bookkeeping function within the space. Projects will register their sequestered tonnes of CO2 removed with these registries, who will then check to see if these projects have complied with their methodology, which would have been set by a Standards Body.

Once approved, those project developers can sell their credits as a commodity. When a business wants to buy credits, the type of projects they want to engage with will dictate the sort of registries they’ll be engaging with.

There are also checks in place set by the registries to ensure that project developers use third parties to further validate their project activities.

[16:45] What are the methodologies used in the voluntary carbon market? A methodology refers to the way in which a specific project should be undertaken in order to ensure that the pace of carbon sequestration and storage is consistent throughout the project's life.

Registries are ultimately responsible for issuing the appropriate methodology, and the project developers need to be able to evidence compliance to that methodology.

The process for a project to be registered is quite complicated, and it generally takes 2 – 3 years from concept to being in a position to issue credits.

There is also a requirement to have their work validated by a Verification and Validation Body (VVB). These are third party auditors who check the evidence provided by project developers to ensure they comply with the necessary methodology. This may include the VVBs undertaking a site visit.

[19:30] Will regulatory requirements be introduced within the voluntary carbon market? – Tiffany states that there is definitely a demand for regulatory requirements in the space. There a two key drivers for this:

The need for integrity among buyers – There are many sectors where engaging in a more unregulated space can be risky. Sectors such as the legal and financial sectors need a certain level of oversight to ensure they are making sound investments.

Convergence of compliance and voluntary markets – This is a change that’s been happening over the past few years. This is being driven by governments taking part in the voluntary carbon market space and realising that they can yield returns for the country. Additionally, when they’re spending public funds, there needs to be a certain level of assurance in the projects they’re engaging with.

There is also a growing appetite for businesses engaging in this market to ensure that they are doing the best thing possible ahead of the curve. There’s been a lot of negative press around greenwashing projects, leading to potentially tarnished reputations, to the need for proper checks and regulation is becoming a necessity.

[22:45] What does it mean for a carbon credit to be retired? – The point at which a carbon credit is retired is when it has been taken totally out of circulation for the market. That means that no other broker, intermediary or end buyer would be able to use that credit in any kind of capacity.

It's like having the receipt to say this person has purchased this product, it belongs to them now and nobody else can use it.

[24:30] How are stakeholders using the data provided by AlliedOffsets? – AlliedOffsets has a very wide data set, with an equally wide range of stakeholders.

Some particularly interesting use cases include:

Benchmarking against the competition – Corporate buyers use their data to compare how their activity measures up to competitors or peers within their sector due to AlliedOffsets long view of historic activity. It highlights what projects are being favoured by their competitors and what kind of price points they should be looking at as well.

Project developer research - Another common use case is that project developers will want to see who is active in the market and who they should be targeting for funding. AlliedOffsets can see specific buyer activity broken down by region as well as methodology, which means project developers have a really good chance of being able to engage with buyers who are entering the space and might not have established those direct procurement relationships.

Government consultation - Markets can be a huge source of income from the private sector into the public purse. For example, you might have a voluntary carbon market scheme that's associated with a compliance scheme, which can mean tax benefits for complying businesses alongside socio-environmental benefits for the country.

If you’d like to learn more about AlliedOffsets, visit their website or reach out to Tiffany for more about buyer activity in the VCM!

If you’d like any assistance with carbon standards, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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#213 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Sarah Ball
9 huhti· The ISO Show
ISO consultancy isn’t a field many aspire to enter, mostly because many don’t know it exists until you’re tasked with either managing an existing ISO Management System or implementing a brand new one.

We’re continuing with our latest mini-series where we introduce members of our team, to explore how they fell into the world of ISO and discuss the common challenges they face while helping clients achieve ISO certification.

In this episode we introduce Sarah Ball, a Senior Isologist® at Blackmores, to learn about her journey towards becoming an ISO Consultant and what drives her to help clients on their ISO journey.

You’ll learn

· What is Sarah’s role at Blackmores?

· What does Sarah enjoy outside of consultancy?

· What path did Sarah take to become an ISO Consultant?

· What is the biggest challenge she’s faced when implementing ISO Standards?

· What is Sarah’s biggest achievement?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· Productivity Ninja

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – We introduce Sarah Ball, a Senior Isologist® here at Blackmores, to discuss her journey towards becoming an ISO consultant who specialises in ISO 9001, ISO 45001, ISO 14001 and ISO 27001.

[03:45] What is Sarah’s role at Blackmores? Sarah is a Senior Isologist® with Blackmores, supporting companies with maintaining systems, undertaking internal audits, and supporting with implementing new systems to gain certification utilising our Isology methodology.

Sarah also coordinates the development of content of our online learning platform, the isologyhub.

[04:50] What does Sarah enjoy doing outside of consultancy?: Sarah has a keen interest in history, having studied it at school, she like to travel to various locations of historical interest.

She also spends a lot of time researching her own family tree, learning as much as she can about the far reaching members of the past.

Sarah also likes to go jogging outside, as the gym environment didn’t inspire much enjoyment, she instead prefers to be in nature while exercising. She has also participated in long distance running for charity, completing the 10k Race for Life. She’s taking on the more daunting muddy 5K version this year, which includes a number of obstacles, so we’re wishing her luck!

One of the new hobbies she’s like to take up this year include mountain climbing, with Mount Snowdon on her to-do list.

[06:35] What was Sarah’s path towards becoming an ISO Consultant?: Sarah initially started in Customer Services, working as a customer service advisor in a company and then got promoted to manager of a team. At that point, her role became more about understanding why they were getting certain complaints and what could be done to prevent them happening rather than just resolving them.

She ended up spending more time with suppliers and other departments to help prevent some of the recurring issues, and along the line it lead onto being asked to implement an ISO 9001 Quality Management System.

Which was a tall request considering the fact that at the time, Sarah knew nothing about ISO 9001 outside of it’s designation and area of focus. As a result, she spent a lot of time researching it, and had the help of an external consultant to Implement the Management System. This was necessary, as knowing how to apply it to a business was something that she needed support with.

2 years later, the company asked Sarah to implement an ISO 45001 Health & Safety management system and an ISO 14001 environmental management system. These two she implemented herself after getting a feel for it during the initial quality management system implementation.

For the next 10 years, Sarah worked in other companies, assisting with their integrated management systems. Along the way, she also picked up on ISO 27001 Information Security, before landing in Blackmores in 2020.

[09:10] A path people fall onto – Most people don’t actively plan to get into ISO consultancy, it’s usually a result of being tasked with managing or implementing a management system while working in another role.

[10:10] What is Sarah’s favourite aspect of being a Consultant? – Sarah enjoys the variety, not just in the work and tasks but in the companies and industries that she gets to work with.

Each have their own way of working, unique approaches and knowledge nuggets in the form of ways of working that can be cherry picked and applied elsewhere.

She also likes to see how a management system develops and evolves overtime and how it can become part of a company’s success, driving continual improvement.

Sarah enjoys working with people that can see the real benefits of ISO management systems, rather than just focusing on the certificate on the wall.

[13:40] Making a Management System your own – Sarah is a big proponent of making a Management system your own, giving it an identity so that it can be fully integrated into the way a business works.

Businesses do it all the time, usually by naming large projects that everyone can reference by a common shorthand. A Management System can work in the same way, making it a part of the day-to-day running of the business.

She’s also a fan of not worrying about the terminology in Standards. Many of the terms used are meant to be general, this was due to the way international audiences referred to certain aspects of management, it wouldn’t always translate correctly. So many Standards have some admittedly awkward terminology that can be applied to any business, and you by no means have to use their wording, as long as you can explain what relates to what in an audit then you’re free to name things as appropriate to you.

[16:55] What Standards does Sarah specilaise in and why? Starting with:

· ISO 9001 Quality: This is the main standard that Sarah starting working with, and is one that touches on a lot of areas within other Standards. It’s a great base to build off of, and is the starting point for many venturing into the world of ISO.

· ISO 14001 Environmental: Sarah got experience with this Standard at her first company, it’s also commonly implemented alongside ISO 9001.

· ISO 45001 Health & Safety: Another one of the first Standards Sarah implemented, it’s also a common one to see in integrated management systems.

· ISO 27001 Information Security: Sarah got to grips with this Standard through years of working with other companies.

Sarah’s favourite Standard is ISO 9001, not only because it was her first experience with implementing ISO Standards, but because it create a blueprint for success.

ISO Standards are setting the minimum requirement, not the maximum, they are designed get you started so you can make continual improvements. It also acts as a foundation to build onto, you can pick aspects of other Standards to integrate into your existing system. You don’t necessarily have to certify to those additional Standards, but nothing is stopping you from strengthening your Management System with the best bits from other ISO’s.

[21:00] Sarah’s favourite clause in ISO 9001: Sarah personally favors Clause 10 – non-conformity and corrective action. The reason behind that choice is due to that clauses’ importance in driving continual improvement. It’s about taking something negative being turned into a positive, which is what Quality Management is at it’s core.

[22:05] What is the biggest challenge Sarah had faced during a project and how did he overcome it?: Molding the Standard to the business. As a consultant, the biggest challenge is understanding how to make the requirements of a Standard fit the business, and not the other way round.

It’s all about trying to align the ISO Standard requirements to their values and mission, and then getting people on board with understanding the true benefits of management system implementation.

At Blackmores, we ensure that each management system is unique to each business. We don’t operate with a copy paste model. This is another reason why Sarah encourages naming your management system, by branding it you encourage engagement.

Sarah highlights the fact that we run a lot of workshops in the initial part of a project, conducting a Gap Analysis, SWOT and PESTLE ect, this helps our consultants to really get a feel for how a business ticks. From that, we can help steer the delivery of the Management System to the wider business, by building it into their existing tools, such as an intranet.

[25:45] Leading by example: We revamped our own ISO 9001 Management System a few years ago, with both Rachel Churchman and Sarah Ball leading the refresh. We gave it a name, H20 (How 2 Operate) and integrated it with our Microsoft Teams channels as we’d all swapped to mostly remote work following the COVID pandemic in 2020.

As Sarah points out, there are many different ways to display and deliver your management system, including:

· Microsoft Teams

· Intranet

· Google / Google Drive

· SharePoint

· CRM’s such as Monday.com

The key is building it into the day-to-day tools everyone uses. Make the Management System part of your processes, so adhering and maintaining it becomes part of everyone’s way of working.

[28:55] What is Sarah’s proudest achievement? Obtaining her degree through the Open University while still working full time.

It took Sarah 8 years of hard work to obtain her honours degree in History, which was one not required by her work or career development. It was simply something she wanted to do to prove to herself that she could achieve it.

Many other members of Blackmores can attest to Sarah’s level of determination, and organisation, as she shares many tips and techniques learned from her years of study and work. This includes:

The Productivity Ninja – Learned from Graham Allcott’s book, which seeks to help reduce procrastination, and tackle tasks with efficiency.

The Second Brain – A tool to help keep track of ideas / tasks that aren’t an immediate priority.

These tools are now used by a number of the team, and we have no doubt Sarah will be schooling us on more techniques in future.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing ISO standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#212 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Darren Morrow
26 maalis· The ISO Show
We share a lot of success stories here on the ISO Show, along with hints, tips and updates to Standards, including insights from our consultants who work with Standards day in and day out.

In our latest mini-series, we’re taking a step back to introduce members of our team, to explore how they fell into the world of ISO and discuss the common challenges they face while helping clients achieve ISO certification.

In this episode we introduce Darren Morrow, a Senior Consultant at Blackmores, to learn about his journey towards becoming an ISO Consultant and what drives him to help clients on their ISO journey.

You’ll learn

· What is Darren’s role at Blackmores?

· What does Darren enjoy outside of consultancy?

· What path did Darren take to become an ISO Consultant?

· What is the biggest challenge he’s faced when implementing ISO Standards?

· What is Darren’s biggest achievement?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· Engagement Amplifier Gameplan

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – We introduce Darren Morrow, a Senior Consultant here at Blackmores, to discuss his journey towards becoming an ISO consultant who specialises in ISO 9001, ISO 45001, ISO 14001 and ISO 50001.

[03:45] What is Darren’s role at Blackmores? Darren is a Senior Consultant with Blackmores, supporting companies with maintaining systems, undertaking internal audits, and supporting with implementing new systems to gain certification.

A key part of his role is translating ISO Standards into plain English, and guides clients on how to apply them in practice.

[04:55] What does Darren enjoy doing outside of consultancy?: Darren moved to Norfolk back in 2021 ans has since found the relaxed way of life there to be a great fit.

It also offers a lot of good walking opportunities for his 2 Leonberger's (giant breed dogs), who mostly enjoy the local parks and beach walks.

Darren is also an avid reader, clocking in a whopping 343 weeks’ worth of reading on his kindle. His favourite genres include:-

· Crime, thriller, adventure types - Clive Cussler, Michael Connelly, David Baldacci, CJ Box, Dan Brown, James Carol

· Horror - James Herbert, Stephen King

· Supernatural, urban fantasy, fantasy - Ben Aaronvitch, Jim Butcher, Raymond E Feist, C S Lewis & Tolkien

· Historical - CJ Sansom, SJ Parris

· And Terry Pratchett for a weird dose of reality.

He’s also a movie buff, with a collection of over 1,000 films ranging from the 1930’s all the way to modern era. Recently he took on the challenge of watching all the Marvel films in chronological order, which took a few weeks!

[10:35] What was Darren’s path towards becoming an ISO Consultant?: Before Blackmores, Darren was the Quality Manager for a company that worked within the Highways Maintenance sector, working there for 8 years.

For the first 18 months he was primarily the Quality Manager for a specific contract on the Olympic Park, as that contract came to an end, he moved into the main company Quality Manager role supporting multiple highway term maintenance contracts along with various smaller projects that the business won.

Prior to that, he was a SHEQ Advisor within the Rail industry, working for a signaling company. Darren worked there for about 5 years, within head office support roles for quality and health and safety, moving to working on supporting the project teams and project delivery for signaling schemes.

Overall, looking back, he’s worked with standards within a quality, health & safety, environmental for around 25 years now.

[13:20] What is Darren’s favourite aspect of being a Consultant? – Darren likes the variety.

As an ISO Consultant, he gets to work with lots of different people, companies and industries, so he gets to learn a lot about how they work and how Standards apply to different industries.

He also enjoys the fact that after working with clients for a number of years, he becomes just another member of the team.

[15:15] What Standards does Darren specilaise in and why? Starting with:

· ISO 9001 Quality: This is the main standard that Darren starting working with back in 1999

· ISO 45001 Occupational Health and Safety: While working within rail, Darren was given the opportunity to do some training and proceeded to complete NEBOSH courses - general and construction, this proved invaluable in future roles.

· ISO 14001 Environmental: Darren ended up working with this Standard as part of on-going development. His role as a Quality Manager expanded, and at the time, all external audits with our certification body were coordinated through him. So, for on-going development he completed the NEBOSH environmental managed certificate.

· ISO 50001 Energy Management: This is one of Darren’s favourites. He’s taken on this standard since working with Blackmores and seemed like a natural progression with the work he was already doing. He likes how this standard helps companies think more about their impacts on the environment in terms of energy consumption.

In terms of companies climate change impacts, Darren likes how ISO 50001 can support deep dives into data that is available or not clearly available in many cases to support improvement and reduction in energy consumption.

This also can pave the way for those companies that take it more seriously, and progress to newer standards like ISO14064-1 for quantification and reporting of greenhouse gases, but also part 3 for the verification and validation of greenhouse gases.

This is where our sister company, Carbonology Ltd, really excel. Darren does his bit with ISO 50001 clients to educate and prepare them for taking more proactive steps towards meaningful energy and carbon reporting. For example, if they grow sufficiently or fall within the parameters of mandatory schemes such as ESOS or SECR reporting, or they just want to do their bit and demonstrate their commitment to minimising their impact on the environment and overall energy consumption.

[23:10] What is the biggest challenge Darren had faced during a project and how did he overcome it?: He doesn’t have a single one that stands out, but common issues are usually either down to availability or commitment of the individuals within the company he’s supporting.

For example, the company may decide that they require certification to a standard or multiple standards. There will be commitment from some within the business, and there are those that may not see the importance or feel it's not important to them and what they do.

Darren’s job is to support the company in achieving its main goal in gaining certification. His work with the company involved explaining what is to be done and why. He’s found that most of any resistance is because individuals do not know the why and how it impacts them, etc.

The other aspect is to make it clear that he is not there to tell them what to do, or that they’re doing it wrong. He works with people to either document the process (where required), help them find improvement in the process and continue to search for improvement.

[27:00] What is Darren’s proudest achievement? Darren states that there’s no one definitive achievement to highlight, rather he would say supporting clients who are new to the standards. Working with them and providing knowledge so that they know the 'why' and understand the standards and their processes, and finally seeing the end result with being recommended for certification.

The ones that he’s particularly happy with are those that go for multiple standards, that result in recommendation for certification with little or no significant findings from the certification body, it shows that the company has been fully engaged and embedded the overall process into how they work.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing ISO standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#211 The Power of Communicating Your Management System
19 maalis· The ISO Show
A well implemented ISO Management System can improve efficiency, customer satisfaction and drive continual improvement for a business. On the flip side, a poorly implemented Management system will yield little to no results, so what makes the biggest difference between good and bad implementation?

Communication is the key. If no one knows about your Management System, then how can it benefit the business as a whole?

In this episode Ian Battersby discusses the importance of effective communication of your Management System, why it’s vital to reap the full benefits of ISO Implementation and gives some examples of how you can communicate elements of your Management system to the wider business.

You’ll learn

· Why do you need to communicate your management system?

· What do you need to communicate?

· Why is it important to communicate your Management system?

· Different ways you can communicate your management system

· How can you measure effective communication?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· How can ISO Standards Support ESG Compliance Workshop

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – Ian talks discusses elements of communicating a management system including, why you need to communicate and what needs to be communicated, the importance of doing so and how you can go about doing it.

[02:45] Why do you need to communicate your Management System? In every ISO Standard, communication is a requirement. The levels and information specified will vary depending on the Standard, but the principles remain consistent.

Ian cites ISO 9004 as providing further guidance to improve on what’s initially required. In Clause 7.4 it states:

“The effective communication of policies, strategy, relevant objectives is essential to the sustained success of an organisation.”

Going on to state that communication should be “Meaningful, timely and continual” and that there should be some form of feedback within it to be able to address changes in the organisation’s context. So, it’s not just a one time exercise.

It also states that: “communication processes should be both vertical and horizontal and be tailored to the differing needs of its recipients, whether internal or external.” So you also need to consider the external communication needs too.

[04:35] Empowering through communication: ISO 9004 also talks about engaged, empowered and motivated people and their value as a key resource.

These types of people help organisations to create and deliver value, so you should have processes in place for engaging those people, to gather feedback and drive continual improvement.

[05:40] Where is Communication referenced in Standards?: Typically, communication is Clause 7.4 in most ISO Standards. Additionally there are elements of communication included in Clause 7.3. Awareness.

The Awareness clause focuses on employees knowledge of the Management System, and is more focused on internal communications rather than with external interested parties.

[06:25] What should be communicated internally? Under Clause 7.3 Awareness, it requires you to share:

· Policies

· Objectives

· The consequences of non-conformance

Other Standards may have additional communication requirements such as ISO 45001, which also highlights the need to share risks, hazards, incidents and the outcomes of investigations.

[07:10] Clause 7.4 Communication – This clause is more about determining internal and external communications. This includes considerations for:

· What communications are relevant?

· When should they be communicated?

· Who should they be communicated to?

· Who should be the one to communicate this information?

Some Standards may also include specifications for communicating legal requirements, such as ISO 14001 and ISO 45001.

[08:20] Nuance in effective communication: One key element of communication is ensuring that it’s understood and applied by the wider business.

This doesn’t mean that every employee should be able to parrot a specific policy within a business, but rather they should at least know where to find it and understand the implications for them.

[09:40] A link between Communication and Leadership: Leadership plays a key role in communications, and ISO Standards specify that certain elements can’t be delegated to another individual.

Clause 5 Leadership specifically states:

· They shall promote the use of the process approach and risk-based thinking, not delegating that promotion.

· They should communicate to the importance of the management system and of conforming to that management system.

· They should engage directly and support persons to contribute to the effectiveness of the system.

· They should promote continual improvement.

· They should support other relevant managers to demonstrate their leadership in their areas of responsibility.

We’ve stressed the importance of Leadership in the success of a Management System in a previous episode, and their support with communication is a big part of that.

[11:20] Communicating Objectives: Clause 6.2 Objectives states that they must be established and communicated. This doesn’t have to be to everyone, so you can be selective and communicate certain objectives relevant to select people.

[11:40] How to effectively communicate your management system – Management systems can be vast, and it can be tricky to know exactly how much to communicate and to who.

The first tip is to keep it simple. Translate the ‘Standard speak’ into something recognisable for your business, which may not always be easy if you’re familiar with the Standards terminology. However you need to relate these elements to how people in the business work. Try to keep it brief to avoid confusion.

Next, ensure you are assuaging fears. Many are firstly opposed to the introduction of things like Operational Procedures if they’ve not worked with a Management System in place previously. However, all this is in practice is a written format for how they work, it shouldn’t drastically change the way in which they work. Make sure they know this and describe what elements will change i.e. documentation updates.

Lastly, they need awareness of the consequences of non-conformance and the need to look for opportunities to improve.

[15:25] Communicating Policies – This is a part of all ISO Standards, a Policy can’t just be hidden away in a rarely visited folder. A Policy communicates the intent of top management in an organisation, and is something that should be communicated to everyone, which could include external parties.

So, you should try to keep this concise. On one page ideally. As long as you’ve encompassed the vision, values, strategy and top management commitment, and for certain standards a commitment to legal requirements, then you will meet an ISO Standards requirements.

Some businesses like to include links to all their procedures within a policy, which by all means, you can, but don’t expect people to read a 48 page policy and understand it enough to apply to their daily working lives.

[17:00] How can you communicate your Management System? – One key objective of communication is to ensure people understand and apply what’s being communicated.

To help achieve this, you may want to use multiple methods of communication, including:

· Feedback options on content i.e. a yes or no check / options to provide feedback

· Training sessions

· Intranet page – quick links to relevant content such as policies or audit findings

· Regular briefings

· Notice boards

· Electronic displays

· Company briefs

· Team meetings

[20:25] How can you measure effective communication? There’s a lot of ways you can assess this, including:

· E-mail voting – to clarify when people have read specific documents

· LMS Systems

· Through SharePoint systems

· Conduct surveys

· During Internal Audits

All of these can be used as methods of feedback where you can identify further opportunities for improvement from various levels of the business.

[21:35] When should you consider external communications? – Clause 4.2 is where you’re required to consider the needs and expectations of interested parties.

When going through an anaylsis of these interested parties, you determine what they expect out of your Management System.

Standards don’t specify the need to write a communication plan, but they do say who’s going to communicate what to whom, including how and when. In combination with that analysis of interested parties, it creates a solid basis for an effective communications plan.

Again, some discretion will be required as not every external party will need to be privy to your internal policies and procedures. Just communicate what’s relevant to them.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing ISO standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

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#210 What is the EU Green Claims Directive
12 maalis· The ISO Show
Watch the Podcast Video on our YouTube Channel

Greenwashing is a concern for both businesses and consumers. The proliferation of it in recent years has caused genuine green claims to be treated with an air of caution rather than being rightfully celebrated.

It’s become clear that there is a need for transparent and substantiated green claims, both to help consumers and stakeholders to make informed decisions and to ensure that real steps towards sustainability are being taken.

Is the upcoming EU Green Claims Directive the answer we’ve been looking for?

In this episode Mel is joined by Charlie Martin, CEO and Founder of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, to discuss the purpose of the EU Green Claims Directive, who it applies to and what it’s requirements for substantiation and verification mean in practice.

You’ll learn

· What is the purpose of the EU Green Claims Directive?

· What are the drivers behind this objective?

· Who is required to comply with the EU Green Claims Directive?

· What do the requirements for substantiation and verification mean in practice?

· How will the directive impact the use of carbon offsetting and carbon neutrality claims within the EU?

Resources

· EU Green Claims Directive

· Anti-Greenwash Charter

· How can The Anti-Greenwash Charter can help with the EU Green Claims Directive

· Green Claims Policy Template

· Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – Charlie Martin joins Mel to discuss the upcoming EU Green Claims Directive, who it applies to and what it’s requirements mean in practice.

[02:30] What is the purpose of the EU Green Claims Directive?: This directive is a new law, not simply a voluntary scheme that businesses can opt into.

It’s a regulation that governs all voluntary green or environmental claims made by organisations operating within the EU, and requires data to back these claims up.

Another key fundamental of this directive is the need for independent verification of any claims before they’re made public.

[04:35] What are the main drivers for the EU Green Claims Directive?: One of the key drivers is combatting the rampant rise in greenwashing. It’s created a culture of mistrust around green claims, which makes it difficult for stakeholders and consumers to make informed decisions on who to work with or buy from.

Greenwashing also makes it harder to tackle bigger environmental concerns. With misleading data, we can’t accurately measure businesses impact on the environment, which is essential if we are to take meaningful action to reduce our impact.

Ultimately, greenwashing practices are slowing down our ability to effectively reduce our impact as a collective. We are at a point where sustainability related decisions need to be made quickly.

[08:00] Clearer Communications: This directive also has more control over what you can and can’t say in relation to green claims. By waiting until that independent verification has occurred, businesses can feel confident in the information they’re communicating.

[09:30] What is Green Masking? Coined by Carbonology, green masking is where organisations are essentially marking their own homework and hiding behind that fact. It’s where no independent verification has taken place, which can result in a lack of accuracy and transparency.

[10:25] Who needs to comply with the EU Green Claims Directive? – This is an EU based regulation, so if you’re located within the EU you will be expected to comply with this law.

If you do business within the EU, so if you’re based in the UK and sell to Europe, then you will also fall under this jurisdiction as well.

[11:25] What is required by the EU Green Claims Directive?: A full summary of the directive’s requirements can be found on the EU website. A simple break down of these requirements is also available on The Anti-Greenwash Charter website.

Charlie recommends familiarising yourself with the EU Green Claims Directive requirements initially, which are written to suit how businesses generally operate. He also advises that you seek legal assistance as well as sustainability and marketing experts or consultants to get a full picture of how you can comply with these requirements.

[13:35] There is an emphasis on substantiation and verification in the EU Green Claims Directive – what does this mean in practice? A green claim doesn’t account for much if you’re marking your own homework. For it to be truly substantiated, it needs to be verified by an independent third party.

The Directive also highlights the need for life cycle data, and its inclusion within the verification process. This will give businesses a more wholistic view of the impact of the materials they use, the products they use and services they deliver.

Charlie encourages businesses to get a head start on this now, not only due to the benefits it can bring but also to get ahead of the tightening of sustainability legislation that is coming down the road for the UK.

[16:15] How will the directive impact the use of carbon offsetting and carbon neutrality claims within the EU? Businesses are going to have to be crystal clear in their terminology in terms of their substantiated claims.

There is going to be a lot more scrutiny on the quality of evidence provided for carbon claims, so businesses may want to outsource help with analysing the relevant carbon data and communicating any claims and offsetting efforts.

[18:25] Is the Directive ambitious enough? Or could it be strengthened? – Previous attempts to enforce sustainability regulations have been rather weak, and time will tell if this EU Directive is set to change that pattern.

Charlie praises the Directives approach to best practice, though that will evolve further as time goes on. He thinks that the use of generative AI and how that impacts and influences sustainability communications needs to be considered further.

It’s all still quite new, so this may be added in down the line. The Anti-Greenwash Charter already have considerations for responsible AI use within communications and data processing within their Green Claims Policy Template.

They caution any signatories of their Charter to be very careful with the use of AI to support data collection and analysis, as it has the tendency to ‘hallucinate’, and companies will be held responsible for any mishaps related to incorrect results provided by AI.

[23:00] What are the potential consequences for businesses that fail to meet the requirements of the EU Green Claims Directive? – The penalties will be significant, including both fines and potential bans in areas such as marketing, advertising and promoting sustainability claims on the basis of malpractice.

Time will tell on how these penalties are delivered and to what extent within the EU and UK. It shares similarities with other regulations, such as ESOS, where a phased approach was implemented for organisations that met certain criteria.

[25:00] How can The Anti-Greenwash Chater help organisations comply with the EU Green Claims Directive? – Since it’s inception in 2022, they have paid close attention to the Directive’s development, utilising any improvements and iterations to bolster their own process.

As a result, a lot of the work they do with signatories directly aligns with and facilitates the delivery of the foundations of the Directive.

Examples of this include:

Independent verification – Their Green Claims Policy has to include a green claims database, so any claim that a business want to make has to have the relevant data to back it up. It also requires specification of what third party that business used to verify that evidence.

Accessibility of evidence – This is stressed within the EU Green Claims Directive, and is easily fulfilled with the creation of a green claims database as specified by The Anti-Greenwash Charters’ Green Claims Policy.

A full summary of how The Anti-Greenwash Charter can help with compliance to the EU Green Claims Directive is available on their website.

[27:55] How will the EU Green Claims Directive will impact consumer trust in environmental claims? – There’s currently an issue with the flooding of sustainability related communications. With greenwashing so rampant, making an informed decision as a consumer is really difficult.

The standardisation of sustainability credibility and substantiation is what the EU Green Claims Directive aims to do. Ultimately, it will act as a trustworthy marker for stakeholders and consumers to make an informed decision quickly.

If you’d like to learn more about The Anti-Greenwash Charter, visit their website!

If you’d like any assistance with carbon standards, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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#209 Introducing The Anti-Greenwash Charter
5 maalis· The ISO Show
Watch the Podcast Video on our YouTube Channel

We are hitting a crunch point in regard to keeping to the 1.5°C limit as set out in the Paris Agreement. It’s going to take a collective effort to reduce the most catastrophic impacts of climate change, which is exactly why we’re seeing an increase in legislation and regulations that call for tangible evidence of sustainability efforts to combat the rise in greenwashing.

If you’re looking for guidance on sustainability transparency, today’s guest has an initiative that can help.

In this episode Mel is joined by Charlie Martin, CEO and Founder of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, to discuss how their charter promotes transparency and accountability for sustainability claims, and how it can help consumers to identify credible carbon claims.

You’ll learn

· What is The Anti-Greenwash Charter

· How can the Charter ensure credible carbon claims?

· What are the biggest challenges businesses face in measuring their carbon footprint?

· How can The Anti-Greenwash Charter help consumers to spot credible carbon claims?

· What role do governments and regulatory bodies play in combatting greenwashing?

Resources

· Anti-Greenwash Charter

· Green Claims Policy Template

· Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Episode Summary – Charlie Martin joins Mel to discuss how The Anti-Greenwash Charter can help promote accountability and transparency in sustainability claims, and how it can help consumers identify credible carbon claims.

[01:50] What inspired the creation of The Anti-Greenwash Charter?: Charlie used to run an agency called Gusta, which was a UK based business that worked on sustainability communication for organisations in the built environment.

His focused shifted when the Competitions and Markets authority in the UK published their Green Claims Code alongside research which found that 40% of sustainability-related messaging online was misleading.

At the same time, they had 2 very proactive clients (1 of which was going through B Corp certification) that highlighted that the CMA had not named the built environment as one of the affected sectors. They pointed out that the built environment accounts for 40% of all emissions, so were likely to be targeted by such regulations next. They asked to run a campaign that would Increase confidence both internally within their sectors and externally in their sustainability messaging.

It was decided that a publicly available document would be the best way forward to proactively disclose their carbon reduction related activities. Other ideas were added for an editorial process to include legal, sustainability and marketing feedback ahead of publishing.

Essentially, the origins are rooted in the notion of a green claims policy, which developed into a more robust accreditation signatory.

[06:30] How does Charlie define Greenwashing?: Charlie defines greenwashing as "overstating or misleading stakeholders regarding the environmental credentials of an organization, service, or product.

Charlie explains that there are two types of greenwashing: direct and indirect. Direct greenwashing involves making false claims about a product's environmental benefits, while indirect greenwashing involves making true claims that are irrelevant or misleading.

[08:00] What are the key principles of the charter, and how do you ensure adherence among signatories?: The 4 key principles are:

· Accountability

· Honesty

· Fairness

· Transparency

If you’d like to know more about each principle in more detail, visit The Anti-Greenwash Charter website.

Taking a look at transparency in more detail, it’s not just about sharing all the best sustainability related news for your business, it’s about being willing and upfront with areas where you’re not as strong.

One keyway they ensure signatories adhere to this principle involves publicly displacing their green claims policies. The first section of every policy is ‘where can we improve?’ – they specify this as there isn’t a company that is 100% environmentally sustainable, and businesses need to be honest about this if they want to improve.

[12:15] What are Charlie’s thoughts on the current state of Net Zero claims? There are some promising developments, such as the upcoming Green Claims Directive, which has more requirements set around how people make claims and being held accountable for those.

It’s challenging for everyone to navigate, and the big thing here to remember is that everyone is clumsy when it comes to Net Zero. Businesses are trying their best, but when getting deep into the topic of sustainability, it becomes clear how broad it truly is.

Ultimately, people have to be okay with getting things wrong. Some people see setting ambitious targets as dangerous, but if we don’t push for them, change is going to happen at a snails pace.

There is a need for credible, substantiated plans that are in-line with best practice, but we need to be careful to not go too far in that direction to ensure that it helps rather than hinders sustainability efforts. Innovation should be encouraged and not punished if mistakes are made or certain really ambitious targets aren’t met within a certain timeframe.

Mel highlights that Standards such as ISO 14064 are great frameworks to guide businesses in measuring their carbon footprint, with guidance that encourages independent third party verification for further transparency.

[15:40] The Green Claims Directive and Transparency – Charlie highlights that the Green Claims Directive identifies independent third party verification as a mandatory requirement of claims made before they’re disclosed publicly.

As this is also something that The Anti-Greenwash Charter encourages, signatories are already ahead of the curve.

[17:10] What are the biggest challenges that companies are facing in accurately measuring their carbon footprint and how does the Charter help to address these challenges? The main challenge is accurately measuring their carbon footprint, and the charter acts as a signpost with referral partners who can assist with this aspect of their sustainability journey.

Another challenge is communication. So you’ve got your substantiated claims and green credentials, but how do you go about communicating that? That’s one of the crucial elements that The Anti-Greenwash Charter can help with. As mentioned earlier, they can help verify a publicly available green claims policy, which is a huge step towards credible carbon claims.

If you’d like an example of this, you can download Anti-Greenwash Charters’ green claims policy template from their website – which provides a step-by-step guide on producing one of your own.

[20:50] What are the broader benefits for companies that adopt a transparent and credible green claim? Charlie explains that signatories have used their status as a signatory for their Charter on tender frameworks, and won due to that fact.

Another benefit is the Charters’ credibility, which gives external stakeholders confidence that a business is doing what they claim to be doing.

They also offer anti-greenwashing awareness training, which gives those within the business the tools and techniques that can be utilised in any published content to ensure they aren’t making any greenwashing claims.

[22:25] The negative effects of greenwashing on well meaning businesses: Charlie and Mel both highlight the sad reality that many businesses would prefer to simply not make any green initiatives or claims public for fear that if they are not done 100% successfully then there’s a chance for reputational damage.

The need for robust sustainability frameworks that build confidence is clear. Due diligence is important, and so is the need to allow room for mistakes to happen, so long as businesses take the necessary steps to fix them and keep continually improving.

[27:15] What role does Charlie see governments and regulatory bodies playing in combating greenwashing, and what policy changes would he like to see? – The EU Green Claims Directive is currently best in class as it requires businesses to look at the consequences of their impact on the environment, in addition to the requirement for independent verification to back up any claims made.

Other regulations here in the UK, like the Green Claims Code, is weaker in comparison. It was watered down through negotiation into a more voluntary scheme.

For us here in the UK, we really do need to align with Europe, as their regulations are a lot more robust and offer a tangible path towards a united greener future.

There are other benefits, as Mel highlights from her Masters research, there is compelling evidence that a company’s value increases by an average of 10% if their carbon claims are independently verified.

[32:35] What are Charlie’s aspirations for The Anti-Greenwash Charter? And what are his hopes for the future of credible carbon claims? – They’re really keen to become a multinational signatory, which is already showing promise as they’ve had interest from the US and Australia.

Charlie envisions a future where businesses publish a green claims policy regardless of if it’s mandated by legislation. This is so we can build confidence in green claims being made and be assured that people are doing what they say they’re doing.

To help with credibility and transparency, The Anti-Greenwash Charter has been incorporated as a not-for-profit organisation. Charlie wants to reaffirm that they started this to ultimately reduce the impact businesses make on the planet, and they are fully committed to this goal.

If you’d like to learn more about The Anti-Greenwash Charter, visit their website!

If you’d like any assistance with carbon standards, get in touch with Carbonology, they’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#208 The Pros and Cons of Sustainability Standards
25 helmi· The ISO Show
ISO Standards have been at the forefront of creating a unified approach to various aspects of sustainability, ensuring businesses have a robust framework to both manage and reduce their environmental impact.

However, there are a lot of different sustainability Standards that cover specific areas of sustainability, or only apply to certain sectors. Each come with their own pros and cons, making it tricky to pick the best fit for you.

In this episode Steph Churchman introduces four of the leading sustainability focused ISO Standards and explains the benefits and disadvantages of each to help you decide which could be the best fit for your business.

You’ll learn

· Learn about our upcoming ESG Workshop

· What is ISO 14001?

· What are the pros and cons of ISO 14001?

· What is ISO 50001?

· What are the pros and cons of ISO 50001?

· What is ISO 20400?

· What are the pros and cons of ISO 20400?

· What is ISO 14064?

· What are the pros and cons of ISO 14064?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· Register for our ESG Workshop (26th March 2025)

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Steph discusses the leading sustainability ISO Standards, and explains the advantages and disadvantages of each.

[02:45] ESG Workshop: On the 26th March 2025 we’ll be explaining how ISO Standards directly support ESG compliance, and we’re including the opportunity to participate in 1 of 3 interactive sessions that tackle things like completing a materiality assessment, a balance scorecard and learning more about the current mandatory ESG reporting requirements.

Register your place here.

[03:15] What is ISO 14001?: ISO 14001 is the Standard for Environmental Management. Published back in 1996, this Standard is one of the staples in the ISO world.

Its main purpose is to establish and implement an effective environmental management system (EMS), with the primary goal of helping organizations to minimize their environmental impact and achieve sustainability objectives.

It sets out general requirements for:

· Pollution control

· Reduction of your impact on the environment

· And compliance to relevant legislation

It is also due for a revision soon, with the latest version expected to include further considerations for changes to available technology, more emphasis on product life-cycle and supply chain issues and further guidance on integrating environmental issues into your strategic planning.

[04:35] What are the benefits of ISO 14001?:

Reducing environmental impact: By identifying and controlling environmental aspects, organizations can minimize pollution, reduce waste, and conserve resources.

Improved compliance: ISO 14001 helps organizations comply with environmental regulations and legal requirements, such as the environment Act 2021, reducing the risk of fines and penalties.

Improved efficiency: ISO 14001 helps to tighten production processes, leading to better efficiency and reduction in the risk of incidents. It also removes uncertainty by managing disruption and waste and helps to clarify staff responsibility.

Enhanced reputation: Demonstrating a commitment to environmental responsibility can enhance your reputation and brand image, attracting environmentally conscious customers and stakeholders.

Cost savings: Implementing an EMS can lead to cost savings through improved resource efficiency, reduced waste disposal costs, and lower energy consumption. Businesses can also benefit from reduced insurance costs by demonstrating better risk management.

Increased competitiveness: ISO 14001 certification can give organizations a competitive advantage in the marketplace, particularly in sectors where environmental performance is a key consideration.

[06:45] What are the disadvantages of ISO 14001?

Initial costs: Implementing an EMS requires an initial investment in resources, including training, documentation, potentially hiring consultants, and if you’re going for certification, that will incur its own costs from a certification body too.

Ongoing maintenance: Maintaining an EMS requires ongoing effort and resources to ensure compliance with the standard and continuous improvement.

Potential for bureaucracy: If not implemented effectively, an EMS can become cumbersome, hindering operational efficiency.

Limited scope: ISO 14001 focuses primarily on environmental aspects within an organization's direct control, and may not address broader environmental impacts or social responsibility concerns – which is where other Standards can fill the gap.

[08:05] What is ISO 50001? – ISO 50001 is an internationally recognized standard that provides a framework for organizations to establish, implement, and maintain an Energy Management System (EnMS).

The primary goal is to help organizations improve energy performance, including reducing energy consumption, increasing energy efficiency, and using energy more effectively.

[08:40] What are the benefits of ISO 50001?

Reduced energy costs: By identifying and addressing energy inefficiencies, you can significantly reduce your energy bills. We had great success with this when we worked closely with a branch of the NHS, where their initial energy spend was around £2.8 million which was reduced by £1 million as a result of implementing ISO 50001.

Improved energy performance: ISO 50001 helps organizations establish baselines, set targets, and track progress in improving energy performance. This is vital as you can’t hope to reduce what you can’t measure.

Enhanced environmental performance: Reduced energy consumption leads to lower greenhouse gas emissions and a reduced environmental impact. Often times, energy usage is the largest impact many organisations have on the environment, especially for those who may only have an office or warehouse.

Increased competitiveness: Demonstrating a commitment to energy efficiency can enhance an organization's reputation and attract environmentally conscious customers and stakeholders.

Improved operational efficiency: An energy management system can lead to improved operational efficiency through better resource management and reduced waste.

[10:55] What are the disadvantages of ISO 50001?

Initial investment: Implementing an EnMS requires an initial investment in resources, including training, data collection, and possible help from a consultancy.

Limited Guidance: Calculating your energy usage can be complicated, especially if you’re spread across multiple sites and countries. In cases where you’re renting space, you may face difficulties obtaining the information needed, then on top of that is the actual calculation which may involve conversion factors if you’ve got international sites in scope.

Resistance to change: Implementing changes to energy-using processes can sometimes meet with resistance from employees. A lot of practices will require a change in habits, such as turning off and unplugging all devices when leaving an office, or more frequent checks on equipment to ensure it’s running optimally.

Limited scope: ISO 50001 focuses primarily on energy performance within an organization's direct control and may not address broader energy-related issues or the entire supply chain – which includes its own energy consumption considerations.

[12:30] What is ISO 20400? – ISO 20400 is an internationally recognized standard that provides guidance on sustainable procurement. It helps organizations integrate sustainability considerations into their procurement processes, ensuring that environmental, social, and economic factors are taken into account when making purchasing decisions.

This Standard differs from the others as it’s not a certifiable Standard. It’s a guidance document that you can align with.

For those of you looking into ESG schemes, this Standard is often citied as a key tool to help get you in the right place for scoring.

In addition, for those of you looking into more comprehensive carbon reporting, Supply chains are often one of the biggest sources of emissions. Alignment with that Standard will allow you to take a good hard look at the suppliers you work with, and determine if they hold the same sustainability values as you.

[13:25] What are the benefits of ISO 20400? –

Reduced environmental impact: By selecting suppliers with strong environmental performance, businesses can reduce their overall environmental footprint. You also have a great chance to help influence your own supply chain, we know that if you’ve had a reliable supplier for a number of years, it’s not just a simple case of cut and move on.

Improved social responsibility: ISO 20400 encourages organizations to consider the social and ethical impacts of their procurement decisions, such as fair labor practices and human rights.

Enhanced reputation: Demonstrating a commitment to sustainable procurement can enhance your reputation and brand image. It shows that you’re thinking and acting sustainably from start to finish for either your product production or service delivery.

Cost savings: Sustainable procurement practices can lead to cost savings through reduced waste, improved resource efficiency, and lower long-term maintenance costs.

Increased innovation: Working with sustainable suppliers can expose you to new technologies, products, and services that can improve your own operations.

[15:35] What are the disadvantages of ISO 20400? –

Increased complexity: Integrating sustainability considerations into procurement processes can add complexity and require additional resources. This would include supplier checks before working with new suppliers and a review of all current suppliers to see where improvement could be made.

Finding sustainable suppliers: Identifying and qualifying sustainable suppliers can be challenging. Though more businesses are certainly making an effort to be more sustainable, ensuring they have proof of their claims is essential.

Potential for higher costs: In some cases, sustainable products and services may have a higher initial cost compared to conventional options.

Limited scope: ISO 20400 focuses primarily on procurement practices and may not address broader sustainability issues within the organization. This is where ISO 20400 can be supported by certifiable standards such as ISO 14001 and ISO 50001.

[17:00] What is ISO 14064? – ISO 14064-1 is an internationally recognized standard that provides a framework for organizations to quantify and report their greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and removals.

It helps organizations to:

· Understand their carbon footprint

· Set reduction targets

· Engage in carbon markets

· Improve environmental performance

[17:45] What are the benefits of ISO 14064?

Improved data quality: The standard provides a robust methodology for collecting, analyzing, and reporting GHG emissions data, ensuring accuracy and consistency.

Set achievable reduction targets: By having an accurate way to measure your impact, you can look to set realistic and more importantly achievable reduction targets.

Enhanced credibility and transparency: Both consumers and stakeholders are increasingly looking at real tangible evidence of your carbon claims. Simply having a sustainability page full of promises is no longer enough, you need facts and figures to back up what you say you’re doing.

Reduced climate risk: By understanding and managing your GreenHouse Gas emissions, you can better mitigate the risks associated with climate change, such as regulatory changes and physical impacts.

Competitive advantage: In an increasingly climate-conscious world, businesses that can demonstrate their environmental performance through credible GHG reporting will gain a competitive advantage.

[19:30] What are the disadvantages of ISO 14064?

Initial investment: Much like the other Standards, if you want to do this right you will have to invest time, resources and money. That could include hiring consultants to help you with the necessary calculations, and if you wish to go for full verification, then there will be an additional cost from a verification body.

Ongoing maintenance: Maintaining an accurate and up-to-date GHG inventory requires ongoing effort and resources. Monitoring your emissions doesn’t stop once you get a verification badge, it will be on-going.

Data complexity: Collecting and analyzing GHG emissions data can be complex, especially for large and diverse organizations. So, you may need some initial help to do and understand this yourselves.

Limited scope: ISO 14064-1 focuses primarily on the quantification and reporting of GHG emissions and removals, and may not address broader sustainability issues.

If you’d like any assistance with implementing any of these Standards, get in touch with us, we’d be happy to help!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#207 Management Review – The Fallacy Of The Annual Event
12 helmi· The ISO Show
If you’ve ever implemented an ISO Standard, then the term Management Review will be familiar to you.

It’s a mandatory part of the implementation process, and a crucial tool for monitoring continual improvement. Somewhere down the line, it’s become a bit of a myth that a Management Review needs to be an annual meeting.

That is simply not the case, while required by the Standard, it’s very flexible on how this could be achieved.

In this episode Ian discusses the purpose of Management Review, including what you should be including and getting out of the review and breaks down the fallacy of the annual event.

You’ll learn

· What is the purpose of a Management Review?

· What are the common misconceptions about Management Review?

· How Management Review supports other clause requirements

· What are the inputs for Management Review?

· What are the outputs of a Management Review?

Resources

· Isologyhub

· How to conduct a Management Review

· How to get the most out of your Management Review

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Ian discusses the real purpose of Management Review, and dispels the myth of the annual event.

[02:35] What is the purpose of a Management Review?: Management Review is a requirement of all ISO Standards. It’s main purpose is to check if your Management System is fit for purpose, and what needs to be updated to ensure it aligns with your businesses objectives and strategic direction.

In short, it’s there as a check to see what’s working well and what’s not working well, in addition to continual improvement considerations.

[03:30] What are some common misconceptions about Management Review?: Some common misconceptions include:-

· That it’s simply a formality – Rubber-stamping things and missing out on the opportunity to effectively monitor management system progress

· That It must be once a year

· Having to review everything in excruciating detail i.e. all audit findings

· The need to update the risk assessment and re-jigging scores

· That you must review and update your SWOT/PESTLE

· Or review and update all management system documentation

· That it’s the perfect opportunity to re-write a policy

There is a time and place for all of these, and you could tackle some of this in a Management Review if you really want to, but that is not the main purpose of a Management Review.

[04:50] How Management Review supports other clause requirements - Leadership: If we take ISO 9001 as an example, the Leadership clause states:

“Top management shall demonstrate leadership and commitment with respect to the quality management system by:

a) taking accountability for the effectiveness of the quality management system

e) ensuring that the resources needed for the quality management system are available

g) ensuring that the quality management system achieves its intended results”

These requirements at first glance may seem like they’d require a lot of effort and monitoring of many different factors, but in actuality they can all be satisfied through effective Management Review.

[05:55] What involvement is required from top management? As stated in ISO Standards:-

“Top management shall review the organization’s management system, at planned intervals, to ensure its continuing suitability, adequacy, effectiveness and alignment with the strategic direction of the organization.”

Top management also have involvement in the following elements of implementing and maintaining a management system:

· Context

· IPs

· Risks/Ops

· Objectives

· Policy

· Support

· Operation

· Performance monitoring

Management Review relates specifically to ‘performance monitoring’, but that in of itself will include elements of all the other clauses within the Standard, and many of those require top managements involvement on some level.

[07:45] The fallacy of the annual event – The Management Review clause specifically states that a Management Review should be ‘carried out at planned intervals’.

Many had interpreted that as once a year, which has been the prevailing myth for decades. Looking at the Standard, no where does it say ‘once a year’, planned intervals means it could be once a month, it could be once a week, it could be a set points during the summer.

When deciding on these planned intervals, take into consideration the nature of your business, the size of your business, the risks associated with it and the maturity of your Management System. This will determine how frequent the Management Review should be, as it will differ for every business.

[09:10] Examples of Management Review frequency – Ian has worked in an organisation where they had a rather grand Management Review process, where top management and other relevant individuals meet to review the past year and set the scene for the following year.

That same organisation also had monthly meetings with the same members of top management to keep on top of new and on-going issues.

That isn’t to say this is the only way to run Management Review. Some opt to have quarterly meetings, others once every 6 months and some even leave it to once a year.

[10:40] What is required of Management Review? Inputs – Clause 9.3 details the requirements of Management Reivew in most Standards (some swap 9.3 and 9.2 around, but the contents remains the same).

First, the inputs required for Management Review include:

The status of actions from previous management reviews - If you said you were going to do something before, how’s that going?

Changes in external and internal issues that are relevant to the quality management system - this doesn’t mean that every meeting should consider the SWOT/PESTLE/IP tables, but there must be some determination of when that’s done in detail and when a senior mgt discussion should include the key aspects of that and its impact. There is a need to review these things when required anyway, so doing it only at pre-defined times can be problematic.

Information on the performance and effectiveness of the quality management system, including tends in:-

· Customer satisfaction and feedback from relevant interested parties;

· The extent to which objectives have been met;

· Process performance and conformity of products and services;

· Nonconformities and corrective actions;

· Monitoring and measurement results;

· Audit results;

· The performance of external providers;

· The adequacy of resources;

· The effectiveness of actions taken to address risks and opportunities;

· Opportunities for improvement.

[20:45] What is required of Management Review? Outputs – You will also have a number of outputs from Management Review, including:-

Opportunities for Improvement – This could be as a result or reviewing audit findings and discussing the OFI’s found and how you can address and implement these. You could also use the Management Review to review and set new objectives for the year ahead.

Any need for changes to the management system – You may need to review policies and procedures and see if they’re still fit for purpose, if they’re not then this is a good venue to discuss and update them. Other aspects that may have changed or will have a need to change include:

· Interested parties – have their needs and expectations changed?

· People – Do you need to change the people involved with certain processes?

· Awareness – Do you need to raise more awareness around a specific topic?

Resource needs – You may need to raise the need for more resourcing in regard to the management system or related processes.

If you’d like to learn about alternative ways to host a Management Review, listen to one of our previous episodes.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

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#206 Aligning Objectives with Strategic Direction
5 helmi· The ISO Show
The importance of setting key objectives can’t be understated. They help drive continual improvement and reflect a business’s key metrics for success in various areas.

They are also a key aspect of implementing an ISO Standard, with most specifying a dedicated Objectives clause. While most businesses will have objectives irrespective of any ISO certification, many may fall into the familiar trappings of having separate objectives for different departments, which only serves to fragment your measurement of success.

In this episode Ian discusses the importance of setting key business objectives, and why you should be aligning these with your strategic direction.

You’ll learn

· What is the Annex SL format and why was it introduced?

· What is meant by ‘Strategic Direction’?

· The importance of risks and opportunities in objective planning

· Who are setting key business objectives important?

· How can you align objectives with a businesses strategic direction?

Resources

· Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Ian discusses how to align objectives with the strategic direction of the business, and why it’s important to do so.

[02:55] What is the Annex SL format and why was it introduced?: The Annex SL format refers to the standard 10 clause structure that we now see in most ISO Standards. Introduced back in 2015, it sought to address the issues with integrating multiple Standards, in addition to making them more accessible to every sector.

Prior to 2015, many ISO standards were designed with specific sectors in mind, using terminology that would make sense to them, but perhaps not to others. The Annes SL format now uses the same language across all ISO’s, making It easy to integrate multiple ISO compliant Management Systems.

[06:10] What is meant by the term Strategic Direction? Leadership: This is a term that appears in ISO 9001 5 times.

We first see it in Clause 5 – Leadership, where it states:

“Top management shall demonstrate leadership and commitment with respect to the management system by ensuring that the policy of objectives are established for the management system and are compatible with the context and strategic direction of the organisation.”

This is where it’s made explicitly clear that leadership / management are responsible for ensuring the Management System aligns with the way their business runs, in addition to integrating it into existing processes.

[07:05] What is meant by the term Strategic Direction? Management Review: It also appear in clause 9.3 Management Review, where it states:

“Top management shall review the organisation system at planned intervals to ensure its continuing suitability adequacy, effectiveness and alignment with the strategic direction of the organisation.”

Again, this reinforces the need for top management to be involved to ensure that the Management System is in alignment with their overall goals.

[08:40] What is meant by the term Strategic Direction? Context of the Organisation: It also appears at the very start of the auditable clauses, in Clause 4 – Context of the organisation, where it states:

“The organisation shall determine the external and internal issues which are relevant to its purpose and its strategic direction.”

This involves looking at issues from a legal, technical, competitive, cultural and economic point of view, and many of these will be determined by top or broader management within the business. They ultimately have the most influence in how a Management System is built, therefore have the most influence on how the policies and objectives are created.

[10:45] The importance of risks and opportunities in Objective planning – Clause 6 (Planning) is where we address risks and opportunities raised in clause 4.

It states that ‘Objectives must be established at relevant functions, levels and processes.”

For us at Blackmores, we directly relate the findings from a risks and opportunities assessment (such as a SWOT & PESTLE), and link these to our objectives to try and minimise those risks. We also leverage the opportunities, by making them real tangible goals to work towards – seems obvious but we often see businesses missing the link between these exercises!

[12:00] How can you set Objectives in alignment with Strategic Direction?: Many businesses now build their mission, values and strategic direction around sustainability and general ESG.

When building a management system, you need to consider how it affects those sustainability / ESG goals, because that is essentially the context of your organisation.

So, you’d need to consider:

How does environmental performance, health & safety performance or legal compliance contribute to the success of the management system as a whole?

You don’t have to be going for ISO 14001 or ISO 45001 for these things to matter, even a quality management system can contribute to sustainability goals. This can be through improving economic performance by reducing waste ect.

Also, don’t be afraid to relate economic performance to your management system. If you have a turnover goal of X, mention that in your context documentation, and also consider how the management system can contribute to achieving that goal i.e. through processes, controls, monitoring and improvement activity.

Also consider your client requirements, they may require an accident rate below X which can also be included in context documentation and can then be factored into your management system measures and objectives if need be to achieve that.

[16:55] How do you establish your objectives? – First you must establish context, and that context must be relevant to the purpose and strategic direction of the business. The context setting must include those who understand that context, strategic direction and the purpose of the business, the risks and opportunities must be assessed in relation to that context, which in turn is already aligned with strategic direction. Finally the objectives must be set in relation to those risks and opportunities.

It's all about having the right people to identify the relevant issues affecting the organisation, and setting concrete objectives in order to improve that.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

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#205 Building AI Resilience with Cloud Direct
29 tammi· The ISO Show
AI usage has skyrocketed in the past 2 years, with many commonplace apps and software now featuring an AI integration in some form.

With the rapid development and possibilities unlocked with this powerful technology, it can be tempting to go full steam ahead with implementing AI use into your day-to-day business activities.

However, new technologies come with new risks that need to be understood and mitigated before any potential incidents.

In this episode Mark Philip, Information Security Manager at Cloud Direct, joins Ian to discuss emerging AI risks and how you can build AI resilience into your existing practices.

You’ll learn

· Who is Mark?

· Who is Cloud Direct?

· How can you assess your current level of AI resilience?

· What are some of the key threats that AI systems currently face, and how can you mitigate these?

· How can you utilise AI to enhance your security?

· What is best practice when responding to an AI related security incident?

Resources

· Cloud Direct

· Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – We invite Cloud Direct’s Information Security Manager, Mark Philip, onto the show to discuss AI risks and how to build in AI resilience into your existing security practices.

[03:25] Who is Mark Philip?: While his primary role is as an Information Security Manager at Cloud Direct, a little known fact about him is that he is an amateur triathlete!

At London earlier in 2024, he was lucky enough to bump into Alistair Brownlee, who is the UK’s two time gold olympic medalist in triathlon.

[05:10] Who are Cloud Direct? – Founded in 2003, Cloud Direct are a Microsoft Azure expert MSP that is the top of Microsoft accreditation that any partner can hold, putting them in the top 5% of Microsoft partners globally.

They offer consultancy and professional managed services, specialising in Microsoft Cloud, which is all underpinned with security across the whole Microsoft stack. They also assist with digital transformation and modernisation.

[06:30] Assessing the current AI risk landscape: Ian points out that a recent report from the Capgemini Research Institute found that 97% or organisations are using generative AI. With this increase in AI use, there is a correlation with an increase in security incidents related to AI.

Mark adds that this technology is so new, with a lot of larger software companies such as Microsoft pushing AI elements into their tools. So there is a learning curve involved with utilising the technology.

There is also a lack of Risk Assessment being done in relation to AI, not a lot of though is going into the use of AI on a day-to-day basis. If you’re using an AI platform, you need to ask yourself:

What is this platform actually doing with the data I’m inputting?

There is also the fact that shady individuals are already leveraging this technology with the likes of deep fakes, bad bots and more sophisticated phishing schemes – and the harsh truth is that they’re going to get better at it over time.

[08:20] What is AI resilience and why is it so important? – AI resilience is about equipping businesses with the processes that control the use and deployment of AI usage, so that they can anticipate and mitigate any AI risks effectively.

Similar to ISO Standards, this would involve a risk-based approach. However, this will look very different depending on your business and how you are using AI.

For example, the risks of someone using AI to generate a transcript of meeting notes will be much lower in comparison to a healthcare company using complex sets of data with AI to synthesize new medicines.

So, if you are using AI you need to consider what the inherent risks could be, and that would be dependent on the data you’re processing i.e. is it sensitive data? And then factor in if the software is publicly available (such as ChatGPT), or it is a closed model under your control? Asking these types of questions will give you a more realistic outlook on the risk landscape you face.

[10:35] How can a business assess their current level of AI resilience? AI is here to stay, so you won’t be able to avoid if forever. So first, you need to embrace and understand it, and that includes creating a clear picture of your use cases.

Mark states they did this exercise internally at Cloud Direct when they were starting to use Microsoft’s Co-Pilot. They asked themselves:

· What sort of data is the software interacting with?

· What data are we putting into it?

· How do Microsoft manage the program and related security?

· Are Mircrosoft storing any of that data?

It’s not just about the security either, you need to understand why your using AI and if it will actually be to your benefit. A lot of people are using it because it’s new and shiny, but if it’s not actively helping you achieve your business goals, then it’s more of a distraction than anything else.

For those looking for additional guidance on AI policies, risks and resilience, there’s a lot of guidance provided by both ISO and the NCSC. ISO 42001 in particular is useful for both people using AI and developers creating AI.

If you’re stuck on where to start, a Gap Analysis is a fantastic tool to see where you are currently and what gaps you need to bridge in your security to cover any AI usage, and to see how well you are complying with current legal requirements (the EU AI Act is now in effect!). Another tool is a Risk Assessment.

You may not process what many would consider sensitive data, such as healthcare information, but even if you store and hold customer data, then you need to ensure that any AI you use doesn’t pose a risk to it.

[14:30] How can AI improve security and resilience? – Sticking with Microsoft as an example, as they are releasing a lot of AI driven tools, they can be used to fill gaps that humans may not have the time to do.

Once example of this is monitoring and sending security alerts, previously a system may have just sent this to a human member of staff to resolve, but now AI security tools can act on those alerts on your behalf.

So, if you have limited IT resources, this could be a fantastic addition to your security set-up. It also eliminates the lag of human response, and AI can look at things in a way a human wouldn’t think to.

[17:55] How do people stay ahead of the curve in the evolving AI landscape? – You should be using the myriad of resources available to learn about AI, as there are webinars, social media feeds, blogs and videos released constantly.

Microsoft in particular are offering a comprehensive feed of information relating to AI, the risks and new technologies in development.

The key is to understand AI before integrating it into your business. Don’t just jump at the new shiny toys being advertised to you, go to reputable sources such as the ICO, NCSC, Cyber Essentials and regulatory bodies to learn about the technology, the benefits it can bring in addition to the risks you need to mitigate against.

Mark can vouch for Microsoft’s though leadership in this field, as they keep all of their customers up-to-date with all of their AI related developments. Cloud Direct themselves are also putting out some great content, so don’t forget to check out their resources.

If you are already utilising Microsoft’s tools, the Cloud Direct can help explain how their new tools can apply to your business.

If you’re looking for assistance with ISO 42001, then Blackmores can help you with implementing a robust AI Management System.

[21:40] What is best practice when responding to an AI related incident? – To be honest, there’s no reason to not treat it like any other security incident. We’ve already adapted to more sophisticated security risks as a result of the move towards home and hybrid working over the pandemic.

This simply another stage along in this ever changing security landscape. You should treat it like assessing any new step, and you likely have all the processes in place for analysing risk already in place, simply apply them to the usage of AI and put in place the necessary governance based on your findings.

Standards such as ISO 20000 IT Service Management and ISO 22301 Business Continuity are fantastic tools of you’re new to this sort of incident response planning. If you’ve already been certified to these standards, then you likely have the following in place already:

· Risk Assessments

· Business Impact Assessments

· Business Continuity Plans

· Recovery Plans

Simply add AI as an additional risk factor into your existing management system and update the necessary documentation to include actions and considerations for its use.

If you update your Business Continuity and recovery plans, then make sure to test them! Don’t just assume that they will work, put them to the test and adjust until you’re comfortable that in a real incident, everyone in the business knows how to react, what to communicate and how to get back up and running.

[24:00] What are Mark’s predictions for the field of AI resilience? – People need to look at the opportunities in utilising AI, a lot of people are using it without really understanding it so there’s a lot of learning still to do.

So, he expects to see a lot of businesses fully grasping how they can use AI to their advantage in the coming years. With that comes the challenge of ensuring it’s integrated safely, with the right governance embedded to ensure its safe and ethical usage across entire organisations.

Another big challenge is the handling data privacy within AI. Scams are only going to get more complex as AI develops, and you need to ensure your business can protect against that as much as possible.

Also businesses should carefully consider what AI platforms they choose to use. Ensure you understand what data is being input and stored, and the level of control you have over it.

All of this to say, there are a lot of massive benefits of using AI and you should shy away from it. But, you need to ensure you are using it safely and ethically.

[27:30] What is Mark’s book recommendation? – The hunt for Red October by Tom Clancy

[28:45] What is Mark’s favorite quote? – “I have a bad feeling about this…” – Star Wars

Want to learn more about Cloud Direct? Check out their website.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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#204 Greenwashing – Separating Fact From Fiction with ISO 14064 Verification
22 tammi· The ISO Show
The uptick in greenwashing cases, and subsequent outing of these claims only serves to make stakeholders and consumers dubious of any businesses sustainability pledges.

One key way to combat this is to have the information to back up your claims, something that is becoming a mandatory requirement for some depending on sector, location or company size.

In this episode, Mel dives into the use of ISO 14064 and how verification to this internationally recognised Standard can help companies build trust and ensure their climate action claims are genuine and impactful.

You’ll learn

· What is Greenmasking?

· Why there is a need for transparency in green claims

· What is Greenhouse Gas Statement Verification?

· What is ISO 14064?

· How can ISO 14064 Verification combat greenmasking?

Resources

· Carbonology

· 7 Shades of Greenwashing Guide

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – In this episode, Mel delves into the world of ISO 14064 and explores how verification under this international standard can help companies build trust and ensure their climate action claims are genuine.

Catch-up with the previous episodes in the series here:

The Rise of Greenwashing

The 7 Shades of Greenwashing

[03:05] What is greenmasking?: Greenmasking (a term coined by Carbonology®) is used to describe the practice where organisations self-certify their environmental impact without independent verification.

This means they claim their green credentials are accurate while avoiding transparency about their methodology and data. Essentially, they are "marking their own homework," which can lead to misleading claims about their sustainability efforts.

This could be compared to someone completing their own MOT and signing it off themselves, instead of taking it to a qualified mechanic. Obviously, that MOT certificate wouldn’t be valid in that case, and would have no credibility when it came to selling the car.

[04:45] The need for transparency – For carbon reporting to succeed globally, enforcement will need to be standardised across all nations.

With transparency around ESG initiatives increasingly important, you need to be able to objectively and accurately measure and report on your carbon footprint. Some to keep an eye on include the Green Claims Directive and the Anti-Greenwashing Charter.

Stakeholders are now looking for independent Verification of the accuracy of your emissions data and your calculated carbon footprint through Standards such as ISO 14064-3.

[07:05] What is Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Statement Verification? - GHG Verification is the engagement of an independent third-party by an organisation to provide Verification of their GHG statements using standards such as ISO 14064-3.

Carbon footprint Verification involves, collecting data and reporting on your emissions from your company’s activities, and then independently verifying its accuracy to provide assurance to stakeholders that your claims are transparent and true.

If you’d like to learn more about the differences between the Greenhouse Gas Protocol and ISO 14064, check out a previous episode.

[08:10] What is ISO 14064-1 and ISO 14064-3? – This is the specification for Greenhouse Gas emissions reporting and part 3 is the specification for verifying that, covering more elements than the Greenhouse Gas protocol.

The reporting requires you to collect data from various sources across your scope 1, 2 and 3 emissions, collating it into a report and then have that report independently checked against the requirements of ISO 14064.

[09:45] How can Greenhouse Gas Verification combat greenmasking? –

· Highlights integrity - Verification against ISO 14064-1 highlights the veracity of your systems and processes to prove your GHG inventory, assertions and reports conform to the ISO 14064 standard; and are free from errors, omissions or misstatements, demonstrating the highest integrity of your GHG reporting.

· Validation of Net Zero goals - Verification against ISO 14064-1, establishes the integrity of your claims towards Net Zero.

· Verify success - Verification against ISO 14064-1 provides assurance of your carbon footprint declarations which will give confidence in achieving the projected emission reductions

· Stakeholder assurance - Stakeholders are increasingly looking for independent Verification of GHG Data to prove reduction are achieved year on year

Download a copy of The 7 Shades of Greenwashing from Carbonology’s website here.

If you would like some assistance with carbon Standards and reporting, simply get in touch with the team over at Carbonology.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#203 The 7 Shades of Greenwashing
16 tammi· The ISO Show
The rampant rise of greenwashing threatens to undermine genuine sustainability efforts and mislead consumers, with over 900 businesses in Europe being accused of the practice in 2024.

Greenwashing can come in many different forms, and the tactics used aren’t always easy to spot.

In this episode, Mel dives into the 7 shades of greenwashing and explains the common greenwashing tactics you should be on the lookout for.

You’ll learn

· What is Greencrowding?

· What is Greenlighting?

· What is Greenshifting?

· What is Greenlabelling?

· What is Greenrinsing?

· What is Greenhushing?

· What is Greenmasking?

Resources

· Carbonology

· 7 Shades of Greenwashing Guide

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – In the 2nd part of this 3-part series on greenwashing, we dive into the various methods and tactics used by businesses to avoid their sustainability obligations.

[03:05] What is greencrowding?: This tactic relies on safety in numbers and occurs when different groups (like governments, organisations and companies) join forces to create the impression of making significant environmental changes.

For example, 8 of the world’s biggest 20 plastic polluters including companies such as Royal Dutch Shell, Coca-Cola, and BP are part of the Alliance to End Plastic Waste, however the group moves at the speed of the slowest member and sets low environmental targets to stall action as it is often costly and involves a lot of the companies resources and time

[03:55] What is greenlighting? – This is when companies spotlight a particularly ‘green’ product or operation which helps to draw attention away from tis otherwise environmentally damaging activities.

Commonly seen in the car industry, recent BMW campaigning highlights the company’s electric vehicles, despite being heavily invested in combustion engine vehicles therefore not addressing their major source of emissions.

Another example is Exxonmobil, who heavily advertised its “advanced biofuels” made from algae, however didn’t mention the fact that the biofuels made up a miniscule part of production. Since coming under scrutiny Exxonmobil have rescinded this project altogether and haven’t looked to practical alternatives.

[05:15] What is greenshifting? - This is where the blame gets shifted onto consumers. BP’s “Know your carbon footprint” campaign is a key example, it invited customers to share pledges for reducing their individual emissions yet BP’s core business continue to partake and scheme hugely polluting oil and gas projects.

Another example include H&M who urged consumers to recycle their old clothes yet, the company continues to be a prime culprit in fast-fashion and have a significant part to plat in over-consumerism leading to environmental degradation.

[06:10] The growing need for comprehensive carbon reporting – This occurs when companies use words like ‘eco’, ‘sustainable’ or related wording or symbols conveying green messaging with no evidence to support it.

Kohl’s and Walmart were sued for labelling toxic rayon textiles as eco-friendly bamboo.

Another more recent example is McDonald's Paper Straws where In 2019 a paper straws to introduced to replace plastic ones, claiming it was an eco-friendly move. However, it was later revealed that these paper straws were not recyclable, leading to criticism that the company was misleading consumers about the environmental benefits.

[07:15] What is greenrinsing? - This is where companies change their sustainability commitments or targets before actually achieving them.

Repeatedly, Coca-cola has missed and moved its recycling targets. Between 2020 – 2022, the company dropped its targets for using recycled packaging from 50% by 2030 to 25% proving these targets were not sufficiently made.

BP and ExxonMobil are two more examples of being criticized for frequently updating their climate targets without substantial progress. Various ambitious goals were announced over the years, but critics argue that these targets are often revised or postponed making it hard to assess real achievements and also trust between consumers, investors and legal frameworks are lost.

So the takeaway here is, make sure you’re targets are realistic!

[08:45] What is greenhushing? – This occurs when companies deliberately underreport or hide green credentials to evade scrutiny, which is a rising practice found in larger firms who struggle to successfully hit their targets/ aims.

Commonly found with firms that make distant net zero targets but do not report on progress. It allows them to hide the fact that they are not taking meaningful steps. Companies often avoid reporting positive environmental measures they may be taking to prevent greenwashing accusations which can be argued as counter-productive in the efforts to help drive systemic and industrial change in the most polluting industries.

H&M and ExxonMobil are key examples of greenhushing and no-longer actively promote their sustainability practices as they have faced criticism over false / limited actions in the past.

This one is rather damaging, especially to those who are taking meaningful sustainable action, but may not be keeping up with their targets. This is why it’s so crucial to make those targets obtainable.

If this practice continues, then there is less pressure overall for businesses to do their part for sustainability. It’s important to celebrate the victories, no matter how small, as it all adds up to the bigger picture.

[10:55] What is greenmasking? - Greenmasking (a term coined by Carbonology®) is used to describe the practice where organisations self-certify their environmental impact without independent verification. This means they claim their green credentials are accurate while avoiding transparency about their methodology and data.

Essentially, they are "marking their own homework," which can lead to misleading claims about their sustainability efforts. Some companies offer ISO 14064 consulting and verification services that may not always adhere to the rigorous standards required for genuine verification.

This can result in poor practices and undermine the credibility of the certification. For example, some consulting firms might offer ISO 14064 verification as part of their services but fail to conduct thorough and independent audits. Instead, they may ‘verify’ the data is correct in-house. This can lead to situations where companies are able to self-label their environmental impact as compliant with ISO 14064 without truly meeting the standard's requirements.

This results in a vast amount of unreliable and untrustworthy data that is purportedly verified. Furthermore, with some consultancy companies asserting that offering both consultancy and verification within the same firm is a viable option, it paves the way for poor reporting standards to be accepted, only worsening the problem in the long run.

Greenmasking can have significant implications for stakeholders, including investors, customers, and regulators, who rely on accurate and transparent environmental reporting. To combat greenmasking, it is crucial for organisations to seek independent and accredited verification of their GHG emissions ensuring that their sustainability claims are credible and based upon the rigorous standards stated in ISO14064-3.

Download a copy of The 7 Shades of Greenwashing from Carbonology’s website here.

If you would like some assistance with carbon Standards and reporting, simply get in touch with the team over at Carbonology.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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#202 The Rise of Greenwashing
9 tammi· The ISO Show
In a world increasingly concerned about environmental impact, companies are under immense pressure to demonstrate their sustainability credentials. But how can businesses truly differentiate themselves from those simply paying lip service to green practices?

Greenwashing is a term that you will likely be familiar with, as it’s one that’s been on the rise as consumer preference steers towards those who are seen to be doing the right thing. Alarmingly, high-severity cases, which involve companies that took a purposeful and systematic approach to concealing ESG violations, rise by more than 32% year on year.

In our upcoming 3-part series we’ll be exploring the impact of greenwashing on business, the different types of greenwashing and the role verification can play in building genuine evidence based sustainability strategies.

In this episode, Mel dives into the first of this 3-part series to explain what greenwashing is, the common tactics used in greenwashing and how businesses can build genuine sustainability.

You’ll learn

· Who is greenwashing?

· Where did the term originate from?

· The rise of greenwashing

· What are some of the common greenwashing tactics used?

· The danger of greenwashing

· How can businesses build genuine sustainability strategies?

Resources

· Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – We kick off our 3-part greenwashing series with an exploration of what greenwashing really is, the common greenwashing tactics businesses employ and how you can avoid those pitfalls to build genuine sustainability within your business.

[05:25] What is greenwashing?: Greenwashing, in essence, is the deceptive use of environmental claims to mislead consumers into believing a company's products or services are more environmentally friendly than they actually are.

[05:45] Where did the term ‘greenwashing’ originate from? – The term "greenwashing" was coined in 1986 by Jay Westerveld, an American environmentalist.

Westerveld first used the term in an essay describing his experience at a hotel in Fiji. The hotel encouraged guests to reuse towels to "save the environment," but Westerveld observed that the hotel was simultaneously expanding its operations, significantly impacting the local environment. This contradiction highlighted the hotel's primary intent to cut costs rather than genuinely conserve resources.

Westerveld's observation exemplified how businesses could deceptively use environmental claims to mislead consumers into believing their products or services are more environmentally friendly than they actually are.

[06:35] The rise of greenwashing: Many businesses over a wide range of industries have made a pledge to reduce their carbon impact by 2050, driven by both an increase in regulation and consumer perception.

However, the Economist highlighted some troubling research, citing that while many businesses will puff out their claims of sustainable practices, many don’t have the evidence to back them up. Many should have the resource, say an Asset Manager, that could provide tangible reports on their carbon consumption each year, and yet they choose not to publicly disclose any such reports.

So, a lot of talking the talk, but not walking the walk!

[07:40] The growing need for comprehensive carbon reporting – There are a number of sustainability and ESG regulations now in effect, with more to come in 2025 (such as the Green Claims Directive that is due to come into affect on the 27th March 2025) that require businesses of different sizes and sectors to report on their carbon consumption and reduction. If you’d like to learn more about a few of these, check out our previous episodes on:

· SECR

· ISBB S2

· CSRD

· CSDDD

[08:15] What are the common tactics used in greenwashing? These can include:-

· Vague and Ambiguous Claims: Phrases like "eco-friendly" or "sustainable" are often used without specific, quantifiable data. However, the EU Green Claims Directive, in theory help address this, although this only applied in Europe.

· Focus on Single Issues: Highlighting one minor environmental benefit while ignoring significant negative impacts across the supply chain.

· False Labels and Certifications: Creating misleading labels or misrepresenting genuine certifications. There are numerous ‘Green certifications’ out there that charge for a badge, without providing any evidence, of for those that do provide information it could just be a document that isn’t evidence based i.e. a Policy statement or ‘pledge’ or ‘commitment’

· "Greenwashing by Association": Implying a connection to environmental causes through sponsorships or marketing campaigns.

[10:15] The danger of greenwashing – The danger with greenwashing is the negative impact it has through an Erosion of Consumer Trust. People are becoming increasingly skeptical of environmental claims, making it harder for truly sustainable companies to gain credibility.

Greenwashing can also lead to Distorted Market Signals: creating a false impression of progress, hindering genuine innovation and investment in sustainable solutions.

[11:30] How can businesses build genuine sustainability strategies?

· Transparency and Accountability:
Disclose environmental data openly and transparently. Seek independent third-party verification of sustainability claims.

Focus on Life-Cycle Assessment: Evaluate environmental impacts across the entire product or service lifecycle, from raw material extraction to end-of-life disposal.

Continuous Improvement: Set ambitious, measurable, and time-bound environmental targets. Regularly review and refine sustainability strategies based on performance data.

Engage with Stakeholders: Collaborate with suppliers, customers, and other stakeholders to identify and address environmental challenges.
If you would like some assistance with carbon Standards and reporting, simply get in touch with the team over at Carbonology.

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#201 It Shouldn’t Happen To An Auditor
18 joulu 2024· The ISO Show
The end of another year has rolled around in the blink of an eye! We’ve managed to publish a whopping 42 episodes this year, pushing us over the 200 episode mark.

We want to thank all our listeners, both old and new, for allowing us to continue to share both ISO tips and success stories from our wonderful clients. We hope you’ll follow along as we continue our podcasting journey in 2025.

To close out the year, Ian Battersby and Steve Mason share some of their stories of misadventures during audits, from common mistakes, to broom battles and forklift mishaps, they really have seen it all! Listen, laugh and learn what not to do during an audit.

You’ll learn

· What not to do in an audit

Resources

· Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[02:05] Episode Summary – Ian and Steve share some of their experiences from their time as auditors. From common mistakes to outlandish situations that you’d have to see to believe, listen and learn what shouldn’t happen during an audit.

[03:40] Lazy Copycats: Steve recounts a time where a company had copy and pasted their Management Review for years, which rightfully earned them a non-conformity.

Ian shares a similar story where a construction company submitting a tender had copy pasted the content and included the wrong company name!

The copying doesn’t stop there, as Steve remembers a company Quality Manual that managed to include multiple company names. It was found that they’d simply copy and pasted example pages they’d found online that looked good, but didn’t bother to update any of the content to be relevant to them.

[06:30] Training Troubles – Ian recounts a time where he was auditing a subcontractor for a construction company that required a record of training. The induction was very important and obviously needed to be documented.

When he checked the documents, though all the forms had different names, all the signatures suspiciously had the exact same handwriting! Turns out the Director was signing them all off, which is obviously in breach of a number of health and safety related regulations.

[08:00] IT Security slip-ups – Steve recounts a time where a Finance Director had good intentions, but poorly implemented his idea. The Finance Director didn’t trust their IT system back-up and instead backed-up all his information on a memory stick.

Steve had pointed out the flaws with this, such as losing the memory stick, data getting corrupted ect. It just simply isn’t a safe or reliable way to store such important information.

[09:05] Disconnected Leadership – Ian shares a time where an auditor caught the lack of leadership commitment to their management system. Despite it being a very nice looking management system by all accounts, the cracks showed enough for an outsider to spot the flaws.

Steve adds that sometimes, you can over engineer a management system to a point past useful. It needs to work for your business, otherwise people will work around it to get what they need done.

Steve had a rather obvious example if this when he required a chat with a member of leadership, who refused on the day initially, despite it being scheduled for 6 months. The person relented a few minutes over lunch where he posed his complete commitment to BS 5750 – A standard that existed 20 years ago and had since been replaced by ISO 9001. Very telling for his level of ‘commitment’.

As we have covered in a previous episode – Leadership commitment is imperative to a successful management system.

[11:40] Skip Diving for Secrets – Steve shares his experience of conducting a skip diving exercise, which is following a document waste trail. At a certain company, they ended up looking in an actual skip only to find what looked like a lot of confidential documents, when questioned someone had said that they looked like they belonged in the CEO’s filing cabinet.

When questioned, the CEO remarked ‘I didn’t want you to catch me with anything that I shouldn’t have, so I threw it all out last night’.

This warranted a non-conformity as anyone could have gone past and fished out that confidential information just as Steve had.

Ian also adds a time where he worked in the NHS and a local hospital had an accident where a lot of confidential medical files ended up scattered across the floor. These were documents that should have been disposed of securely.

[14:05] PPE? You’ve got to be kidding me! – Ian recounts a time working for a manufacturing company that was part of a large international firm. Their UK operation had to abide by strict PPE requirements, proper shoes, eye protection ect. It was something that everyone on the premises had to adhere to.

One day, a Director walked in with none of the PPE which was clearly labelled on many of the signs decorating the shop floor. He had incorrectly assumed that because of his position, he could walk around with no PPE whatsoever. Fortunately the shop floor supervisor set him right and sent him to get properly suited up.

[15:35] Data Centre security says no – Steve recalls a time when a member of top management went to visit one of their own data centre’s, on getting to the gate the security had told him ‘I don’t care who you are, your name isn’t on the list so you’re not getting in.’

That person hadn’t gone through the process of being approved for entry. Yet, predictably, they sent complaints everywhere, but the head of the UK branch had quite rightly praised the security personnel for simply following protocol.

[16:55] Private bank details? Don’t mind if I do! – While Steve was auditing physcial security for an office, a printer ended up printing the payroll of every employee at the business. This wasn’t in a private room, this was in the middle of the office, so anybody could walk up and see bank account details and salaries!

When questioned, it turned out their Finance Director was working from home, and hadn’t bothered to contacts anyone to retrieve the documents. So unsurprisingly, they received a non-conformity.

[19:55] Do not goad the auditor - A bit of advice from Steve “Never say ‘this is our most secure room’ to an auditor” – that is essentially a challenge, and one that you’ll likely lose if you don’t follow your own processes.

Steve put this to the test when someone had claimed only 3 people had access to a certain room. Out of curiosity, Steve used his visitor badge to gain entry, and asked if he was included in that 3. Obviously he wasn’t, and this was simply down to access control being a bit muddled at that particular company.

[21:25] Mistaken Identity: Steve recalls a time when he was given a visitors badge with a completely different person as the photograph. It had no effect on the correct access rights, but amusing all the same.

He shares another story where he shared a waiting room with another Steve. When they called only the first name, the other Steve was taken into that business and questioned on ISO, to which the poor man had to inform them that he had no idea what they were talking about! Shortly after, the correct Steve was collected. But it goes to show how important it is to ensure you’re giving access to the right people.

[24:20] Battle of the Broomsticks: Ian recalls another time when working in construction, when he had the opportunity to work at a horse racecourse. They were looking to achieve what was OHSAS 18001 at the time (now known as ISO 45001), and it was going so well until a few new hires came running across the stable yard wielding 2 brooms, battling like gladiators in view of their auditor.

Thankfully they weren’t really harming each other, but it was enough for the auditor to raise a few questions about subcontractor controls. You really couldn’t write the timing any better (or worse, I suppose!).

[26:15] Clearly a certified forklift driver: While Steve was working at a warehouse, the manager there stressed how well trained all of their forklift drivers were, how sensible they all were.

Though, Steve could see a person dancing, speeding and popping wheelies with his forklift over the managers shoulder. After he’d been alerted to the wannbe stunt driver, the manager went to have a word with them.

[27:30] Accidents don’t happen after 5pm: Ian was working at a company that highly valued the use of PPE on-site, everyone did a good job of abiding by that, until it came to the end of the day. One person leaves across the shop floor in just a normal t-shirt and jeans, waving them all off happily as he leaves for the day.

He still had to cross the shop floor, and being off the clock doesn’t make you invincible.

[29:10] Fire Door Dramas: Steve recalls a time during an ISO 9001 audit where he spotted a fire door had been blocked by pallets in a warehouse.

Another time he saw a fire door that was actually chained and padlocked!

On another occasion, a local council had put their rubbish bins outside the fire door for the building, and during a fire drill, they couldn’t get out.

Ian states how many times he’s seen signs ignored by drivers who park in front of fire exits. All this to say that a little awareness goes a long way.

[31:10] Emergency Plans for the avid reader: During an incident at an NHS hospital where they’d suffered a long term major power outage, Ian and the staff had found that the emergency plans were 144 pages long! With Senior responsibilities hidden away in an Appendix on the last few pages.

Well thought out plans are necessary, but the actual procedure needs to be something that can be followed in the event of an emergency. A little common sense should be applied when deciding what needs to be communicated.

[34:00] Risk Assessment disaster: While working with a team in a manufacturing plant, Ian helped them to streamline their risk assessment process as their previous one needed too many signatures to actually go anywhere. This bottleneck was resolved with months of hard work, or so they thought…

When it came to being audited, the auditor asked the team manager what happened to all of the risk assessments, he’d then pointed towards the Health & Safety Management and claimed they had them all, who had to admit that he didn’t.

Later that evening a director called the administration and asked to hide all of the documentation, to which she rightly refused to do. This also linked back to when the auditor had asked about how the apprentices were trained, and it happened that the apprentice supervisor was on holiday and so they were just let onto the shop floor. Suffice to say, this didn’t reflect well on the resulting audit results.

[36:30] Against the wire: Ian states that manufacturing companies are not famous for admin. He had one experience while trying to get a recertification booked in, which went up against the wire for their current certification running out.

The CB obliged and sent a very qualified Health & Safety assessor there, who took them to pieces. It didn’t take long for him to point out that they had a really nice management system with no commitment from managers to use it.

A word to the wise – don’t leave your recertification up until the last minute! If a CB tried to move your recertification past that expiry date, you can and should push back.

[39:00] Password palavers: Steve shares an experience when he interviewed a very organised PA who managed 7 Directors. At the end of the audit he pointed out a folder on her computer called ‘passwords’, to which she obliged to show him the contents. Predictably it contained all the usernames and passwords for various accounts the Directors owned.

She knew about the secure passwords policy, but no one could realistically remember that many! When Steve questioned the technical team, they states only selected people needed one, and she wasn’t one of them. Steve pointed out that she did, and had done the best she could with the tools available, and gifted them a non-conformity as a result as they hadn’t done a good job of ascertaining who should get additional security tools.

By the end of that day, the PA had their own password vault.

[41:30] A fire extinguisher as useless as a chocolate teapot: In another company Steve had noted that they still had a black fire extinguisher. When asked, the staff replied that they were all up-to-date as of 2007. On checking, it was revealed that it had last been serviced in August 1997 – so no, it was not in fact ‘up-to-date’.

It may be innocuous to some, but when it comes to safety equipment, that could be the difference between life and death in an emergency.

[42:40] Technophobes in a modern age: Ian recounts a past quality audit he did for an engineering company. They require a lot of specific ISO Standards for that industry, and so the company paid a subscription service to ensure they had digital copies of all these Standards to refer back to.

One such standard was on verification, and on asking a particular quality engineer about how he verifies a specific product, he pulls out a printed hard copy of a standard from 1993. Ian was interviewing him in 2017, there had been at least 2 updated versions of the Standard out by that point. When probed about why he wasn’t using the online standards library paid for by the company, he simply stated ‘I don’t like computers’.

[45:00] The case of the mysterious ghost file: Steve once had an audit with a relatively nervous member of staff, after explaining that all he has to do is explin how he works, the interview went rather smoothly.

At one point he photocopied a bit of paper, hole punched it and filed it away on a shelf in the corner. Steve initially thought ‘good admin, he’s clearly following a process’, so when he returned Steve asked why he filed that particular bit of information away, to which the staff member said ‘I don’t know, I’ve just been told to do it’.

Steve then questioned the Quality Manager there about that document and they replied with the same. He then questioned the warehouse personnel to get the same answer.

So, you have this document being photocopied over and over, filed away each time and no one knows why! Steve politely pointed out that it might be a good idea to rethink that pointless process.

[47:50] Useless numbering systems: Ian had a similar experience with a numbering system that nobody knew the origins of. The staff involved simply shrugged it off and stated it was simply just what they used.

Ian decided to put something to the test, by getting rid of it. He removed an entire archive system from a company’s network folder, as back then file space was a big cost and concern. He kept the files and waited to see if anyone actually needed them. After months, he only had 2 requests for documents.

It’s important to ask both what is and isn’t working well. Getting input from all levels of staff can be eye opening, and empower those employees who can help shape up company processes to work more efficiently.

[49:50] Allergic to Audits: Ian shares a secondhand story where a trainer for the HSE was conducting a site visit, where he needed to question the shop supervisor on a few things. He asked him for something he couldn’t see, and the guy agreed to go get it, and just never came back. Apparently he was so scared of the auditing process that he just went home!

[54:00] Shady police and stolen cars: One of Steve’s previous clients had an experience where what they thought was a policeman asked about a hire car the company owned, stating it had been involved in a crime. They didn’t think much of letting him take it for his ‘investigation’.

Later when the hire company asked about getting their car back, the staff let them know what happened, rightly confused this led to a lot of discussion. As you can probably tell, the man was not a policeman and had made off with a nice shiny BMW simply by asking for it.

If something like this happens to you, always ask for documentation from the police.

[55:00] The Great Computer Caper: Ian recalls a training centre incident where a lot of computer equipment is stored in one suite. One day a few guys came in and started lifting stuff out, people were holding doors open for them, not at all thinking them to be thieves. Low and behold, they were and took everything.

Steve recounts a very similar experience where the thieves posed as a computer service company, stripping the entire office on a Friday afternoon. It wasn’t until Monday when everything was still gone that people thought to question who those people really were.

Thank you all for a great 2024, we look forward to bringing you more ISO tips and success stories in 2025.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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