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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Catherine Dawson, General Counsel at Affinipay, discusses her career transition from big law to in-house counsel, emphasizing her interest in technology. She also talks about the benefits of using AI in legal practice, such as task automation and increased efficiency. Dawson recounts her experience of working part-time while starting a family, emphasizing the possibility of work-life balance in law. She provides advice to parents on navigating their careers; suggesting reevaluation and adaptation based on changing situations.
Highlights
Insights about law school, career path, and working in an in-house role Entering a legal career in the technology space and challenging issues with AI Transitioning from Biglaw to in-house and understanding roles within a company The potential of AI for lawyers and how it can help save time and do more meaningful work Advice on prioritizing different aspects of life at different stages and making choices as per personal needs How being full-time in-house differs from being full-time at a big law and how it was more feasible while her kids were in elementary school How to reevaluate life stages and job demands as children grow olderEpisode Resources
https://www.affinipay.com/company/about-us/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-d-dawsonEpisode Sponsored By
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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Erin Gordon, author of "Look What You Made Me Do", a memoir exposing a toxic culture in a prominent law firm. Erin shares her experience of continuous micro-harassments, personal defamation, and inadequate work allocation, leading to extreme stress and impeding her professional growth. Despite having a strong legal case against the firm, practical difficulties meant she had to endure the environment with minimal improvement.
Highlights
Insights on the pressure to stay in big law firms despite negative experiences The turning point when she consulted employment lawyers who advised her to leave the firm The long-term impact on her career, including self-esteem issues, lack of professional growth, and financial loss Erin's realization that she wasn't a bad lawyer, but rather a victim of a system that prioritizes loyalty over individual experiencesEpisode Resources
https://eringordonauthor.com/Episode Sponsored By
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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Dina Segal, the Chief Legal Officer at Gusto, and discusses her personal and professional journey including her transition from a big law firm to an in-house counsel position and her experiences as a working mother.
She speaks about the Lexis Plus platform's innovative Judicial Brief Analysis tool and highlights the importance of understanding the business, building trust, and creating impactful solutions. Dina, a board member of the SunLaw Group, which supports women in-house counsel, also talks about the challenges faced by women in the legal profession.
Dina emphasizes work-life balance and advises against measuring balance on a day-to-day basis. She promotes mental health awareness in the legal industry and encourages self-forgiveness on tough days.
Highlights
Dina’s background and why she decided to attend law school, and her early interest in advocacy Her pathway to in-house law and the importance of understanding the business you're in when working in-house Career progression in-house and the challenges and milestones for those seeking an in-house career Dina’s experience of transitioning the SunLaw Group's activities digitally during the COVID-19 pandemic The importance of being present wherever you are, whether it's at work or with family and suggests viewing balance over longer time periods The lasting impact of small but meaningful moments with children Advice to aspiring lawyers and the importance of identifying their fundamental driver or passion Significance of keeping the larger picture in mind during challenging periods
https://gusto.com/company-news/the-rise-of-women-entrepreneurs
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In this episode, directors Cara Bain and Allison Rosner from Major Lindsay in Africa discussed the trajectory of their legal careers and the importance of workplace partnerships. While detailing their unique career paths, they stressed the benefits of diverse backgrounds and perspectives in enhancing team performance. They encouraged listeners to be receptive to diverse opportunities, stay proactive, and be open-minded in their careers.
Highlights
Allison discusses her atypical path to the legal industry. She shares how her curiosity about the private equity industry led her to join it and ultimately work as a Chief of Staff to the General Counsel in a Legal Department. Allison talks about forming relationships with candidates early on in their careers and guiding them as their career progresses. Challenges in the legal industry are discussed, such as the tension between companies and staff over remote work and the internal pay inequities due to the vast increase in compensation over the last five years. Allison gives tips on how to get up the nerve to negotiate during a job transition, encouraging people to get out of their comfort zone and seek support from mentors or cheerleaders. Discussion on the role of mentorship and peer support in retaining talent within the legal profession. The importance of considering every opportunity and starting the job hunt before feeling ready is emphasized.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-rosner-b837736 https://www.mlaglobal.com/en/people/cara-bain?byconsultantorauthor=cara-bain
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In this episode, Kathryn interviewed Sejal Patel from Sage Ivy Consulting. Sejal traces her unique career from law to consulting, emphasizing that law schools should better guide students about alternative legal careers and business development. She suggests young lawyers maintain their professional relationships from law school, cultivate new ones through LinkedIn and conferences, and develop friendships with clients. Together with Kathryn, they stress the importance of early start in professional networking and continuous learning for a successful career.
Highlights
Navigating the paths after law school and confronting the realities of alternative legal careers Encouraging business development as a part of lifestyle, exploring hobbies and fun activities with potential clients Why you should start early with business development, ideally during law school years How to develop networks and business for those who don't have those kinds of connections from diverse backgrounds The importance of turning clients into friends for gaining inside knowledge and sustaining long-term relationships The need to attend bar association conferences and events for networking opportunities The importance of early business development network building
http://www.sageivyconsulting.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sbpatel/
Episode Resources
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Kathryn interviewed Frieda Garcia, a managing partner at BAL. Frieda shares her journey to becoming an immigration lawyer, primarily influenced by her family's legal immigration issues. Although the field is challenging due to its complexity and politicized nature, it is also rewarding, particularly in cases where she's assisted scientists and nurses.
Frieda commends her firm's intentional diversity efforts and credits this to her rise as a Latina woman. Toward the end of the episode, she reflects on the unpredictable nature of immigration law, emphasizing resilience and empathy as essential attributes. She offers advice to aspiring lawyers, encouraging resilience, forming strong relationships, treating others with kindness, and prioritizing self-care.
Highlights
Frieda Garcia and her motive behind pursuing law Her first experience with immigration law The intricacies of looking at immigration law from the perspective of employers The start of her passion for immigration law BAL's recognition as the most diverse law firm The importance of adaptability and resilience in dealing with the unpredictability of her work in immigration law How young professionals in law should persevere towards their goals, make and learn from mistakes, and forge strong relationships Value of respectfulness and self-care in the demanding field of law and leadership How aspiring law professionals should continuously work towards their goals despite the obstacles
Link to Frieda’s bio: https://www.bal.com/people/frieda-garcia/ Frieda video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2L24flp-cY BAL Insights page: https://www.bal.com/insights/
Episode Resources
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Kathryn interviewed Elise Holtzman, President of The Lawyer’s Edge, who shares her journey from pre-med to law and discusses challenges faced by lawyers. She highlights the pressure being overwhelming leading to visible stress, but advises breaking down goals into smaller achievable tasks. Elise also points out that self-doubts often block individuals from expressing their needs or setting boundaries, and stresses the need to ignore such doubts as they are not based on reality. She encourages lawyers to seek help when stuck and to realize that progress requires new skills and habits, even if changing these seems hard.
Highlights
Why Elise decided to move from medical school to law school The idea of conducting "mini experiments” and trying a few new things like learning to delegate more or showing up with solutions rather than just problems. Law firms' responsibility to communicate their expectations upfront to their associates and to give them a clear roadmap for professional development Ways individuals can develop a macro perspective on their legal career while dealing with daily tasks, such as finding quiet time to reflect or discussing with a friend Spending time with like-minded individuals who can provide motivation and support in aspiring career advancements The challenges of being stuck in a rut in the legal field and suggests making small changes to gradually improve the situation The importance of pacing oneself and not trying to make dramatic changes all at once The mental roadblocks or "gremlins" that prevent people from making much-needed changes in their careers
Episode Resources
https://thelawyersedge.com/about-us/meet-elise-holtzman/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliseholtzman
Episode Sponsored By
https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus
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Kathryn interviewed Susan Myres, a Managing Partner of Myres & Associates PLLC, who discusses the prevalence of “decision fatigue” in the legal industry. She suggests lawyers take regular breaks and maintain a work-life balance to counter fatigue and stress. She emphasizes the components of self-care and health in a lawyer’s responsibility to their clients. Susan also highlights the lack of effective tools to manage this ongoing stress within the profession. Arguing for the importance of being adequately prepared for cases and meetings, she recounts an experience where her unpreparedness negatively impacted a client. She views these scenarios as learning opportunities, warning that, without proper management, decision fatigue can lead to unsustainable legal careers. Lastly, Susan advocates for the development of effective tools to aid in managing decision fatigue and ensuring continued quality in legal service.
Highlights
What led Susan Myers to specialize in matrimonial and family law Why the practice of family law interesting for her Dealing with the intensity of family law cases The notion of decision fatigue The Harvard Business Review issue "How to Make Decisions Amid Chaos" Managing stress and emotions amidst decision fatigue The importance of delegation and taking breaks for overall well-being The signs of approaching burnout in law practice The concept of decision fatigue and the importance of checklists in managing tasks efficiently Importance of self-awareness in managing workloads and stress in the legal profession Why young lawyers who feel enormous pressure to do it all The need to mentor and support them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01OU2Y5TmNw https://www.thehoustondivorcefirm.com/our-team/susan-myres/
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Kathryn Introduces guests Douglas Letter and Shira Feldman from Brady United, an organization focused on reducing gun violence. They discuss their driving factors for practicing law, touch on their work, and explore specific gun laws, including the case of United States vs Rahimi, relevant to domestic violence prevention. Shira outlines the current state of gun laws post-Bruin decision while Doug shares optimism about the Supreme Court's potential future pro-safety rulings.
Highlights
Doug and Shira’s work at Brady, which involves legal advocacy and representation for gun violence victims The optimistic outlook after the oral arguments in the "US vs Rahimi" case State regulations on assault weapons and high capacity magazines The role states play in regulating gun laws and the optimism that these measures will be upheld by the Supreme Court in the future The significance and value of their work at Brady Their initiatives outside of litigation, particularly working with Hollywood, to increase awareness and bring about a cultural shift on gun safety. Shira and Doug’s work at the broader organization of Brady and their important incremental changes.
Episode Resources
https://www.bradyunited.org/our-work/brady-legal/our-legal-team
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Kathryn interviewed Dylan Penningroth to discuss the intersections of Black history, law, and the civil rights movement. Penningroth, author of "Before the Movement: the Hidden History of Black Civil Rights", stresses the importance of viewing the Black community as a diverse group with various perspectives, and using the law as both an instrument of oppression and of change. He speaks on his research challenges and the impacts of corporate law on Black history.
Highlights
The hidden history of Black Civil Rights The significance of contextual understanding of civil rights that goes beyond racial discrimination The importance of taking a focused approach to understand the Civil Rights movement Marriage, divorce, and inheritance in the lives of Black people The reasons why stories involving Black people sometimes get "lost" Black people using law as a tool in their daily lives The tension between law as both a source of oppression and a tool for liberation Ponders whether the law a strategy is worth pursuing for Black people Shows mixed opinions about the law as a tool of oppression and also a tool of liberation
Episode Resources
https://www.law.berkeley.edu/our-faculty/faculty-profiles/dylan-penningroth/ https://history.berkeley.edu/dylan-c-penningrothEpisode Sponsored By
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Kathryn interviewed Amanda Wolfman, who shares her career transition from social work to law and advocates for diversity, equity, and inclusion within the legal field. From her experiences at various law firms, she emphasizes the importance of problem-solving skills and having these values ingrained in all facets of a firm's operations for it to be impactful. She also shares some career highs and lows and the satisfaction derived from solving clients' problems.
Highlights
Her experience on job transition and finding the right fit. The future of diversity in the legal field and how to encourage positive change. The need for deep commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Showing up and actively fighting for progress in diversity, equity and inclusion. Highlights of her career in law. More career highs, including trials won and differences made for clients.
Episode Resources
https://www.nge.com/Our-Lawyers/Amanda-Wolfman
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Kathryn interviewed Melinda, a Partner based in London, who focuses on the recruitment of partners into elite international firms in the UK and Europe. In the course of her 25-year career, she has placed hundreds of partners and partner-teams into AmLaw 100 and UK 20 firms and has launched numerous offices for law firm clients. She successfully represents candidates across a wide range of practice areas and has particularly deep expertise in private equity and related areas.
Highlights
Melinda shares her journey into legal recruiting and the opportunities it has presented for her. Discussion about the overall brand of law firms and its importance during times of change. Discussion around making sure a firm's culture and values align with what they care about. Discussion on how diversity impacts the compensation and origin of credit in law firms. Statement about the success rate of the Reignite Academy program, with three participants having made partner. Discussion about the attributes needed in candidates for successful comeback into the legal profession. Observation of an increase in litigation partners due to a surge in restructuring special situations and distressed finance. Anticipation of future mergers in the mid-market sector and increased transatlantic mergers.
Episode Resources
https://www.macrae.com/melinda-wallman
Episode Sponsored By
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Kathryn interviewed experts Natalie E. Norfus and Shanté S. Gordon discussing the legal industry, the application of AI in legal research via Lexis Plus's new platform, and promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Regarding burnout, Shanté advises identifying needs and seeking support. Natalie emphasizes realism in work allocation and setting work boundaries, particularly during the pandemic. Both underline the crucial need for resources and realistic expectations.
Highlights
The AI-powered tool, Judicial Brief Analysis, and its ability to offer targeted recommendations of relevant cases Natalie’s motivation to attend law school, wanting to advocate for people and be a civil rights lawyer Strategy work Shanté produces for their DEI clients when she has time to focus on her work The importance of intentionality in DEI practices, especially in the retention of diverse employees in a company Work does not have to be a zero-sum game with winners and losers, advocating for a middle ground between full-time remote work and compulsory on-site presence The larger structural issues in the legal profession and how it affects the profession's readiness for work-from-home setups Steps in recognizing burnout, addressing it, and seeking support as needed How business can start reiterate available resources and encourage employees to take advantage of them as necessaryEpisode Resources
https://parade.com/author/natalie-e-norfus https://thenorfusfirm.com/our-team/Episode Sponsored By
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Kathryn interviewed Philippe Sands, who discussed his extensive law career including trade and human rights cases, his work on the Chagos Archipelago case for Mauritius, and his aim to humanize law through understanding case individuals. Philippe also provided insight into his role as a counsel for Samoa regarding nuclear weapons, diving into the realities of legal situations in international law. Offering career advice, he highlighted the importance of relevant studies, gaining experience as law school research assistants, and showed the numerous opportunities available within governmental, non-governmental, and academic roles.
Highlights
Philippe Sands’ background, experience with U.S law, and his family's background in law His writing process and how it involves everyday people's stories The book's potential impact and relevance to the black community in the U.S Personal stories and connections with the people impacted mentioned in the book A powerful moment of the Chagossian community returning to their islands after 50 years What is the human element in law? How law impacts communities and individuals and its importance in education The use of nuclear weapons and France's resumption of nuclear testing in the South Pacific An illustrative incident regarding a French judge's response during the case and the realities of law practiceAdvice to aspiring practitioners of international law
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/176809/philippe-sands/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Sands
Episode Resources
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Kathryn speaks with Tiffany Obeng, author and lawyer, who shares her journey into law and children's literature. Inspired to become a lawyer at a young age, she highlights the need for diverse portrayals of professions in children's literature, starting with her book 'Andrew Learns about Lawyers.' Tiffany challenges the notion that black boys don't enjoy reading, and despite criticism, remains committed to writing books featuring black characters. She's hopeful that her work will not only diversify children's literature but also future workplaces by opening children's eyes to various careers, with an upcoming book exploring being a chef.
Highlights
Tiffany’s decision to attend law school Her legal career journey and how she became involved in employment discrimination law Why she decided to write a children's book The importance of introducing various career possibilities to children early on Importance of introducing various career prospects to children from diverse backgrounds The need for positive representation in children's literature Importance of diversifying children's literature The challenges faced in bringing diversity to children's literature The current state of diversity efforts in the year 2023 with law firms being sued for diversity initiatives and affirmative action being dismantled What the future holds for Tiffany as an author, advocate for diversity efforts, and a lawyer Her plans to continue writing children's books about various careers, thus promoting diversity and knowledge in different fields.Episode Resources
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08GMB1M3GEpisode Sponsored By
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Kathryn speaks with Kelly Olivier and Allyson West, the founders of The Themis Group Trial by Women in Hale & Monico. They discussed their recent trial and its highs and lows. They remain committed despite a disappointing result. They also shared their future plans for Themis - to grow, reach more women, and serve as a powerful force for women's issues and rights. They adhere to the client-first approach and select their cases carefully. Success aside, Kelly and Allyson find their commitment, authenticity, and empathy from being women make it a rewarding profession, and they aim for Themis to be a platform where women lawyers and clients feel respected and heard.
Highlights
Allyson and Kelly’s reasons for starting the Themis group. The structure of the Themis Group Handling work pressures in law practice Advice for women considering a career as trial attorneys Working characteristics that make trial work appealing The need for reducing pressure and accepting imperfections in law practice Handling career lows and gearing up for the next case The experiences of working with an all-woman legal team and the collaboration involved The highs and the lows faced during a trial The appeal of their work even amidst the lows experienced Their small and big picture goals for Themis, emphasizing it as a safe space for women and trials, and expanding its reach
Episode Resources
https://www.halemonico.com/themis-trial-by-women/Episode Sponsored By
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Kathryn speaks with Catherine Kemnitz about her career in law. Catherine shares her journey from pursuing her law degree at 17, working at Thomson Reuters, to becoming the Chief Strategy and Development Officer at Axiom. They discuss the launch of revolutionary legal research platform, Lexis Plus, and the value of diversity in the legal profession. Catherine advises young professionals to pursue their passion, continually learn, and adapt to the transformation brought by technology. The Axiom business model, allowing creativity and flexibility in legal careers, is also discussed, along with the impact of remote working due to the pandemic.
Highlights
Catherine’s sense of justice and desire for a practical and intellectual career led her to choose law Why she started her legal career in the US The role of strategy, technology, and innovation in Axiom's legal services How big law experience can be beneficial for new roles in the legal industry The need for a programmatic response to increase diversity by addressing systemic issues in the legal industry Her career successes, focusing on big picture strategies, and leading the growth and diversification of Axiom's legal bench The importance of not just creating a strategy but ensuring it's understood across the organization Her career journey, the twists and turns, and her approach towards understanding the workings of every function Advises young lawyers to not be limited by inherited models and to seek guidance whenever needed
Episode Resources
https://www.axiomlaw.com/blog/author/catherine-kemnitz https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinekemnitz
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Kathryn and guest Jane Spinak, a Columbia Law School professor, discuss the issues with the U.S. court system's handling of child delinquencies. Jane argues that the system causes more harm than good, often exacerbating issues rather than resolving them. She believes the approach towards these cases should be shifted from courts to supporting communities, to provide more beneficial outcomes for families and children. Jane also calls for the abolition of family courts as they fail to address underlying problems like poverty and structural inequality. She encourages a focus on listening to and aligning with impacted communities for a more supportive system.
Highlights
The understanding of advocacy as advocating for a family, not just a child or parent The lack of effectiveness of the court in solving issues that stem from structural inequalities Keeping supports as much as possible within communities and examples of effective approaches Addressing potential criticisms of the abolition proposal in regards to the reporting system Acknowledgement that sometimes intervention and court proceedings are necessary for serious cases Jane’s abolitionist mindset, advocating for reforms that dismantle the court, not strengthen it The detention of extremely young children, not understanding the meaning behind their punishment Adopting the international standard of 14 years for criminal responsibility The need for supportive assistance for children and their parents instead of legal punishment Why punitive measures should be ended Proposed abolitionist agenda and that the courts should only come into play when a legal proceeding is necessary but should not attempt to solve social problems
Episode Resources
https://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty/jane-m-spinak https://www.amazon.com/Jane-M-Spinak/e/B0CBZFWG4J/ref=zg_bsnr_g_10777_bl_sccl_19/000-0000000-0000000Episode Sponsored By
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Kathryn interviews attorney Nichad Davis who shared his journey to law school and his legal work post-graduation, particularly in civil rights where he achieved policy changes and settlements for clients. Nichad emphasized the importance of supporting aspiring legal professionals, especially those from diverse backgrounds. He urged people to persist despite potential barriers, while challenging discriminatory policies and systems. Nichad also highlighted the power of networking and community support and discussed his strategies for avoiding burnout.
Highlights
Nichad’s unconventional journey to becoming a lawyer, driven by education equity issues and social justice incidents How the reality of the legal world compares to Nichad’s expectations How he stays grounded in his practice amidst troubling societal circumstances The evolution of jurisprudence in the area of policing and the current state of the same The necessity of defying societal odds and challenging discriminatory policies at both the state and national levels The importance of building a supportive community within the field The importance of maintaining a healthy lifestyle, staying part of the community, and prioritizing mental health
Episode Resources
https://www.farrin.com/attorney/nichad-davis/Episode Sponsored By
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Kathryn interviews Adrienne Prentice, CEO of Keep Company, discussing work-life balance, focusing on the challenges faced by caregivers and working parents, which affect people of all genders. Adrienne, once a corporate attorney, emphasizes the need for skills in managing professional boundaries, a training lacking in many industries. She suggests the need for a review of incentive structures in law firms and professional services firms. Additionally, she shares tips for managing work-life balance, including prioritizing what's essential, and effective time management to avoid feelings of guilt and overwhelm.
Highlights
Adrienne’s transition to a corporate attorney role from an employment lawyer and her eventual shift towards management roles Her love for the discrete work involved in technology transactions practice and her work with tech startups Her tenure at Hewlett Packard, leading a team of about 35 attorneys across North and South America The lack of management training in the legal industry, noting the leadership positions often go to the ones with the most business without any focus on people management Keep Company and its goal to reduce preventable attrition by improving the working conditions for parents and caregivers in professional services industries The importance of promoting social wellbeing in the workplace as part of Keep Company's mission The ROI that Keep Company promises to employers, to which Adrienne emphasizes on social wellbeing and resilience The importance of acknowledging that caregiving isn’t solely a women’s issue, but impacts all genders who are caregivers or parents The importance of taking a step back and incorporating strategic planning, rather than falling into the grind
Episode Resources
https://www.keep-company.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrienneprenticeEpisode Sponsored By
https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus
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