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In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor, along with Nate Pyle, Matt McCarthy, and Katie Ignatowski, dive into part three of the politics series exploring the challenges of division and leadership in polarized times. While the focus isn't on the U.S. election specifically, the discussion addresses the broader implications of division in churches, workplaces, and communities. With returning guests Nate Pyle and Matt McCarthy, and new voice Katie Ignatowski, this episode provides insights into how leaders can foster dialogue, perspective-taking, and emotional maturity in their communities.
Nate Pyle: A pastor and member of The Leader's Journey team, Nate brings a wealth of experience in guiding congregations through challenging conversations and promoting emotional maturity in leadership.
Matt McCarthy: Another seasoned leader and pastor, Matt focuses on creating opportunities for embodying the politics of Jesus at the local level, emphasizing community engagement and kingdom work.
Katie Ignatowski: An executive director with a legal background, Katie has held significant roles in politics and compliance in Wisconsin. She brings a fresh perspective to the team, blending her expertise in law and leadership with a commitment to grace-filled and truth-centered dialogue.
Key PointsPolarization and Leadership: The team explores the challenges leaders face in divided environments, highlighting the need to balance empathy and challenge.
Holding Tension: Insights on navigating complexity, resisting oversimplification, and fostering productive conversations.
Media Literacy: Discussing the importance of critical thinking and diversifying sources to navigate "two different realities" shaped by media consumption.
Emotional Maturity: How leaders can grow their own emotional maturity and guide their communities towards it as a critical discipleship practice.
Engaging Locally: The value of focusing on local action and influence as a means to foster meaningful change and embody the politics of Jesus.
Guiding Principles: The role of guiding principles in making decisions, holding convictions, and navigating polarized contexts.
Resource LinksThe Leader's Journey Coaching Team
Miroslav Volf: "Exclusion and Embrace"
Playing Politics, Leading in an Election Year Part 1
Playing Politics, Leading in an Election Year, Part 2 -
The following episode originally aired in July of 2022. You can find the rest of that coaching series here:
The Leader as a Coach: Developing People
The Leader as a Coach: Being Coachable
The five skills that leaders can start to work on today to become more effective leaders through coaching are deep listening, inquiry, giving clear feedback, guiding focus, and doing your own work.
Subscribe to our newsletter!Leaders who learn to lead through coaching and who develop a culture of coaching in their organization will effectively raise up people who can consistently be the healthiest, most effective version of themselves and do their best work.
Conversation Overview
Coaching is "deliberately providing a safe and challenging environment where change is possible" Deep listening "Being profoundly heard by another person is a transformative experience." – Jim Herrington "The experience of being deeply listened to makes us different." – Trisha Taylor Inquiry One reason we get bored listening is because we're not actively asking questions. We're not really all that curious, we're busy, and we're distracted. Giving clear feedback Guiding focus Part of the skill of guiding focus is helping people pay attention to the things they need to be paying attention to. Doing your own workLinks:
The Leader As Coach: Developing People Giving and receiving feedback Defined and Connected Learning is Imperative for Effective Leadership: Part 1 Two Feet Walking Workbook Coaching description on our website Our Love Hate Relationship with Goals (podcast episode) Two Feet Walking Podcast SeriesThank you for listening. If you enjoy listening to The Leader’s Journey Podcast, the best way to support us is to take just a few seconds and leave a rating and/or comment over on iTunes or share it with your friends on Facebook … Thank you!
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In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor sits down with Mandy Smith, a gifted pastor, artist, and author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint. Together, they discuss the deep challenges Christian leaders face, the journey of faithfulness over success, and the importance of embracing weakness as a pathway to strength. Mandy shares her insights on how leaders, particularly in faith communities, often find themselves caught between the desire for competence and the necessity of surrendering to God’s guidance. Through personal stories and deep reflection, this episode invites leaders to embrace vulnerability and trust God with their limitations.
Mandy Smith is the pastor of St. Lucia Uniting Church in Australia and the author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint. With a unique blend of pastoral leadership, artistic expression, and deep theological insight, Mandy serves as a voice of compassion and clarity for leaders seeking to integrate faith with everyday life. She is also associated with the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination. Mandy’s creative and thoughtful approach to ministry continues to inspire leaders to lead with authenticity and dependence on God.
Key Points:
The Role of Faithful Leadership: Mandy reflects on the tension between striving for professional competence and the call to lead with faith and reliance on God. Faith Over Competence: Leadership isn't about having all the answers; it's about modeling the need for God. Mandy talks about how, as leaders, we are called to admit our limitations and trust God’s power to work through us. The Confession of Leadership: The act of confession is integral to faithful leadership. It involves not only acknowledging our weaknesses but also reaffirming our trust in God despite those weaknesses. The Struggle with Human Limitation: Mandy shares her experience of being thrust into leadership roles that challenged her competencies, and how leaning into vulnerability rather than striving for control has been both humbling and healing. The Invitation to Lead Authentically: By embracing human limitations, leaders can create space for God’s strength to shine. Mandy challenges leaders to stop hiding their weaknesses and to model dependence on God for the benefit of those they lead.Resources:
The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry
Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture
Confessions of an Amateur Saint: The Christian Leader's Journey from Self-sufficiency to Relying on God
Mandy's website: The Way is the Way
The Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination
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In this episode, Jim and Rick Rarick dive into the essential role of values in organizational culture and the importance of leadership integrity. They discuss the concept of the Employee Value Proposition (EVP) and how it can shape a meaningful workplace experience. By acknowledging imperfections and fostering a supportive environment, leaders can build stronger connections with their teams and enhance employee loyalty.
Rick Rarick is an experienced organizational coach with a background in both for-profit and nonprofit sectors. He specializes in helping leaders understand and improve workplace culture, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, accountability, and meaningful engagement. With a passion for guiding organizations toward healthier dynamics, Rick brings a wealth of knowledge to discussions about employee experience and leadership development.
Key Points:
The significance of living organizational values with integrity. Acknowledging and addressing integrity gaps as a means of fostering loyalty. The Employee Value Proposition (EVP) defined as a statement of what employees receive from their organization. Importance of meaningful work and connection between individual roles and company goals. The role of friendships and relationships in employee retention. Growth opportunities and the ability to learn from mistakes as key components of employee satisfaction. The shift from traditional work-life balance to a more flexible work-life rhythm. The impact of generational attitudes on work expectations and the importance of creating a human-centered workplace culture.References:
Harvard Business Review: Employee Value Proposition Rick Rarick - The Leaders Journey Coach -
In this episode, the Jim and Trisha host guests Chris and Kurt from Brimstone coaching to engage in a deep conversation about leadership, self-awareness, and the mental models that shape our approach to work and relationships. They explore the importance of slowing down, reflecting, and questioning existing assumptions about what it means to be an effective leader. This episode wraps up with a powerful reminder: “You don’t have to be as tired as you are.”
Chris Godfredson and Kurt Bash have both come out of leadership and supervisory roles in a variety of business kind of contexts and then transitioned into church ministry where they have each led in a variety of contexts. They are the co-founders of Brimstone Coaching Group.
Kurt Bush began his working career in the manufacturing world. He spent time working for a large manufacturing company in various roles over 10 years, with the majority of that time being spent in Human Resources and Production Supervision. He was then called out of that into seminary, and subsequently, full-time vocational ministry. Over the last 6 years, he has served and led churches in and through both minor and major changes, along with helping leaders establish a clear sense of “who we are together.” It’s his work in his own life that fuels the passion that he feels in helping others do their own work.
Chris Godfredsen made the transition a number of years ago from printing the news to telling the Good News. He has a growing understanding of Family Systems theory and Internal Family Systems, and he uses tools and resources that help people stop doing things that have hampered their growth for so long so they can live whole lives. These tools have also been helpful in conflict resolution work with co-workers and leadership teams.
Conversation Overview
Seeing to Change Mental Models of Leadership The Courage to Let Go Redefining Strong Leadership Testing Assumptions Invitation to Reflect Resources Brimstone Coaching Group An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey (the idea of doing two jobs is in the introduction and first chapter) Wholeheartedness: Busyness, Exhaustion and Healing the Divided Self by Chuck DeGroat Western Theological Seminary Brimstone Coaching podcast -
In this thought-provoking episode, we dive deep into the themes of connection, vulnerability, and healing with Chuck DeGroat. Drawing from his rich experience as a therapist and author, Chuck offers insights into how we can move away from shame-based narratives and toward a more empowering understanding of ourselves and our relationship with the divine. Join us as we explore the importance of community in healing, the reframing of addiction, and the transformative power of imagination in our spiritual journeys.
Chuck DeGroat is a seasoned therapist, author, and professor known for his work in clinical mental health counseling and his insights into personal and spiritual growth. With a background in pastoral ministry and a deep understanding of human psychology, Chuck offers a unique perspective on healing, connection, and the inner journey. His latest book, Healing What's Within: Coming Home to Yourself and to God When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering, provides a roadmap for those seeking to reclaim their worth and reconnect with their true selves.
Key Points
The Importance of Connection: Exploring the impact of disconnection on our lives and the necessity of vulnerability in healing.
Reframing Suffering: Understanding suffering as a universal human experience rather than a personal failure.
Imagination in Healing: Utilizing creative visualization to foster a sense of safety and connection with God.
Redemptive Remembering: The practice of recalling moments of grace to counteract negative internal narratives.
Rethinking Addiction: Viewing addiction as a response to deeper needs rather than a behavior to condemn, and fostering curiosity about our motivations.
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In a world where every conversation or statement can spark intense debates, how do you maintain your composure and stay true to your values? Join Trisha, Nate, and Mac as they dive into a conversation about managing both online and in person engagement with empathy, leading through political tensions, and making a meaningful impact on a local level.
Mac McCarthy has been in Christian ministry for over 15 years. As a pastor, practitioner, and coach, he is passionate about equipping leaders by integrating missional theology, spiritual formation, family systems, and adaptive leadership to navigate congregational change.
Nate Pyle is a pastor, author, and coach. He has over 25 years in Christian ministry, and during that time Nate began learning and practicing skills related to adaptive leadership, congregational revitalization, family systems, emotional maturity, and spiritual formation.
Key Points
Engaging on Social Media Dialogue over Provocation Outrage vs. Conviction Maintaining Perspective and Empathy Recognizing Limitations Managing Anxiety and Maintaining Emotional MaturityReferences
The Colossian Forum
Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now by Jaron Lanier
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Note: This podcast is part one of a three-part series on trauma-informed leadership. You can find it in the podcast archives of our website on dates January 23, Feb 13 and Feb 27 of 2019.
Trauma is real and leaders who understand the effects of trauma in their own lives and in the lives of others are less likely to be sabotaged by trauma and are more likely to lead in ways that turn out to be healthy and lifegiving.
Conversation overview:
Trauma and leadership
Trauma can hinder and stimulate growth
Unaddressed trauma in leaders is dangerous
How do we access trauma?
Experiencing other people's trauma
Leaders may be survivors of trauma; leaders are also leading survivors of trauma
The past is always present
Resources:
The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog
The Body Keeps the Score
Healing Developmental Trauma
If you enjoy listening to The Leader's Journey podcast, the best way to support us is to take a few seconds and leave a rating and/or a comment on iTunes or share it on Facebook. Thank you!
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Change happens at the speed of conversation.
This episode is about learning to master transformation conversations from our six-part series on leadership practices that lead to breakthrough. If you’d like to learn more about this series or our organizational coaching and leadership development services you can contact us using our website, https://theleadersjourney.us/contact
Conversation Overview God created with God’s words. What do our words enroll people in? Enrolling people in hope The 3 parts of a transformation conversation How are you going to practice?Thank you for listening. If you enjoy listening to The Leader’s Journey Podcast, the best way to support us is to take just a few seconds and leave a rating and/or comment over on iTunes or share it with your friends on Facebook … Thank you!
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We know that our lives and our leadership flourish when we practice showing up in emotionally mature ways but we don’t always know what that looks like practically. After thinking together about emotional maturity for more than 20 years, we believe that it looks like practicing being both defined and connected as a way of life.
In this podcast, we talk about defining ourselves, letting others define themselves, staying appropriately connected . . . and then we look at the “and” that holds them all together. It’s a little bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy–trying to do both things at once is a challenge! We think it’s worth it, though. We hope you’ll join us to look at how the concept of being defined and connected shows up in your life and how you can use it as a framework to think through some of your stickiest problems.
Conversation overview: Defining ourselves by clearly and courageously saying what is so for us Allowing (and even inviting) others to define themselves Staying appropriately connected and honoring our relationships with others even if they see things differently Connecting by listening rather than convincing Disagreeing without dehumanizing each other Looking at your patterns: Do you give up defining yourself in order to preserve the connection? Do you define yourself but let go of the connection? Examples of practice A visual representation Resources:How did Jesus deal with Conflict?
Growing Yourself Up by Jenny Brown
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In the latest episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, explore the nuances of navigating misuse and abuse of authority with Jim and Trisha. In a candid discussion, they delve into crucial topics: from recognizing various forms of abuse to implementing proactive measures for prevention. With clarity and empathy, they outline practical steps and resources every leader should consider to create safer environments. Whether you're new to these discussions or well-versed, their approachable style and wealth of experience make this episode a must-listen. Join Jim and Trisha as they equip listeners with tools to foster healthier, more informed organizational cultures.
Conversation Overview
Overview of previous episodes Reporting Abuse What are you pretending not to know? Risks of and Responses to Confrontation Taking a Victim Centric Approach Awareness of Triggers Communication is Key Recognizing Culpability Doing Your PartPodcast Series
Power Dynamics
Power Dynamics for Trustworthy and Transformative Leaders
Power Dynamics and Conflict
The Balance of Power: How Leaders Balance Authority and Vulnerability Creating Space for Flourishing.
Trauma Informed
An Introduction to Trauma for Leaders Part 1
An Introduction to Trauma for Leaders Part 2
An Introduction to Trauma for Leaders Part 3
Links and Resources
Matt Tebbe: Some Common Tactics Used to Avoid Justice
Church Cares Website
Net Grace Website - While we don't recommend particular groups for consulting because each group has its own unique approach and we recommend each individual do their research to determind what is best for them,we absolutely recommend the resources on the GRACE page.
A Church Called Tov
Bully Pulpit
When Narcissism Comes to Church
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Join Jim and Trisha as they discuss how assigned authority affects our lives with their guest Ryan Donovan. Take the time to listen to the hard questions being asked about how the role of authority in today's world has shifted and changed. Ryan Donovan is a licensed counselor who lives in Austin, Texas who loves the outdoors. He plays fastpitch softball in his free time, and his life experience has equipped him in some really important ways to join in this conversation. Ryan is also involved in coaching with The Leader's Journey. Conversation Overview: Recognizing Blind Spots Assigned Authority The Paradigm Shift Connection vs. Commitment Asking the Right Questions The Effects of a Double Bind Stewardship of Authority
Ryan Donovan at The Leaders Journey
Ryan Donovan's - Licensed Professional Counselor
Church Cares and the book "Becoming a Church That Cares Well for the Abused" GRACE - Godly Response to Abuse in a Christian Environment A Church Called Tov When Narcissism Comes to Church Bully Pulpit Matt Tebbe's substack -
Authority is inherent in leadership roles, and that inherent authority can be misused and abused. In part one of this series, Jim and Trisha discuss the reality of abuse, the questions surrounding it, and the way leaders are called to respond.
Conversation Overview
None of This is New Authority is Inherent in Leadership What is Authority and Where Does it Come From? The Legitimate Uses of Authority A Focus on Spiritual Abuse The Impact Outweighs the Intention Responding to the Critical Mirror Conflict and Disagreement vs. Abuse Taking a Victim Centric ApproachGet Coaching
Find Us on Facebook
Podcasts:
Power Dynamics for Trustworthy and Transformative Leaders
Power Dynamics and Conflict: A conversation for trustworthy and transformative leaders
Books:
The End of Leadership by Barbara Kellerman
Bully Pulpit: Confronting the Problem of Spiritual Abuse in the Church
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse
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In this episode, dive into the fascinating world of artificial intelligence (AI) and its impact on various aspects of life, including leadership, sermon writing, and more. Join us as we explore the innovative ways in which AI is being integrated into everyday tasks and decision-making processes.
For this special podcast, Jim and Trisha hear some insightful points from multiple guests on how they use AI and how they have seen it impact the world around them.
Podcasts guests include
Scott Hescht is enthusiastic advocate for AI integration into various fields, Scott brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the discussion. Scott offers unique insights into the practical applications of AI in different contexts, including in his ministry as the pastor at The Haven Community Church in Spring, TX.
Rich Braaksma: is the Regional Mission Leader for Resonate Global Mission in Western Canada and part-time pastor of The Road Church in Calgary, Alberta.
Leani du Toit: Trauma-informed spiritual, cross-cultural, and leadership coach with a diverse range of experiences.
Nathan Herrington: Founder of Nathan Herrington Coaching, delving into AI applications in coaching and content creation.
Tim Rotman: Pastor at Zumbro Lutheran Church in Rochester, Minnesota, sharing his experiences with using AI in sermon writing.
Conversation Overview:
AI in Research and Ministry Beyond the Information Being Curious and Cautious Using AI in Content Creation Making Connections with Large Language ModelsResources
Ezra Klein and Ethan Mollick: How Should I Be Using AI Right Now?
AI Will Shape Your Soul
The Haven Community Church
Resonate Global Mission
Nathan Herrington Coaching
Zumbro Lutheran Church
The Road Church
Leani du Toit Coaching
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Jim talks with Mike Whang about how his shift away from the traditional church model opened up avenues of ministry that can be limited for those in Christian leadership. Mike explains how working out the equations of ministry, the balancing of values, the realities of day to day life, and the needs of the Church, has been a challenge and a blessing as he grows in his walk with God and leadership position.
Mike Whang is an ordained elder of the United Methodist Church. He serves Oikon and Wesley as an extension minister of the Texas Annual Conference. He received his M. Div from Duke Divinity School. His favorite foods are rice, kimchi, and eggs. Raised in Los Angeles, he and his wife, Lisa are raising native Texan daughters of Korean descent.
Conversation Overview
A Shift in Approach Pivoting From a Local Church to a Ministry Organization Gaining Margin by Stepping away from Sunday Centric Model Integrating Faith with Life The Upsides and Downsides of Change Personal Responsibility as a Follower of Christ Limitations of Traditional Structures Different Paths for Spiritual JourneysResources
https://www.oikonandwesley.org/
Nomads in the Church: The Leader's Journey Podcast with Terry Walling
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On this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Trisha talks with Mac McCarthy and Nate Pyle about how the election year has affected their congregations and the ways they are navigating that social landscape within their churches. Listen to this first of several podcasts in 2024 as they discuss the unique ways they have each worked with the leadership in their churches in order to guide their congregations to focus on building bridges and communicating with grace.
Nate Pyle is a pastor, author, and coach. As a pastor, Nate has served as the pastor of Christ’s Community Church in Fishers, Indiana since 2008. During that time, Nate began learning and practicing skills related to adaptive leadership, congregational revitalization, family systems, emotional maturity, and spiritual formation. He has a passion to see the church become a learning community growing its capacity to navigate difference, hard conversations, and congregational change.
Mac McCarthy has been in Christian ministry for over 15 years. As a pastor, practitioner, and coach, he is passionate about equipping leaders by integrating missional theology, spiritual formation, family systems, and adaptive leadership to navigate congregational change. Having served in a variety of roles, Mac is currently the Lead Pastor at Crosspoint Community Church in the western suburbs of Milwaukee where has been since 2008. He received his B.A. from Bethel University, his M.Div from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and is ordained with the Christian & Missionary Alliance. Mac is also a CrossFit coach and enjoys helping people pursue holistic health.
Conversation Overview
Political conversation in a Systems Context Getting Your Hands Dirty Political vs. Partisan Being a Minister of Reconciliation Conflating Religious Doctrine and Political Politics Anxiety and Emotional Maturity Capacity Building and Discipleship It Doesn't Always Work Core Conviction and Guiding PrinciplesResources:
Nate Pyle on The Leader's Journey
4 Americas: The Stories and the Gospel - Nate Pyle SermonsMac McCarthy on The Leader's Journey
Luke Bretherton on Democracy and Christianity
Crosspoint Community Church
Christ Community Church
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Trisha and Jim continue their insightful discussion on boundaries in this week's podcast. Join them as they discuss your questions about boundaries and the benefits and struggles of implementing them in personal and professional leadership roles.
Conversation Overview
Flourishing Within Boundaries Boundaries and Emotional Maturity Working Within a Broken System The Cost of Boundaries Managing Guilt Christ's Example of Boundaries Staying On Your Side of the Line and Allowing God to Work Communication is Key Creating a Culture of Healthy Boundaries The Value of Pain -
Join Trisha and Jim as they discuss the importance of respecting boundaries not just for the benefit of ourselves, but for the benefit of those around us. Together they discuss the complexities of setting and keeping boundaries while maintianing healthy relationships.
"Boundaries are not something we put on others, boundaries are something that we maintain for ourselves. " -Trisha Taylor
Conversation Overview
Reconciling healthy boundaries with Jesus' message. Articulating Our Limits What Boundaries Are - and What They Aren't Playing Tennis with Emotional Boundaries Myths About Boundaries Boundaries in Leadership Saying and Hearing "No"Resources
Cleaning Up a Mess with Ryan and Marijke
Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend
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Join Jim and Trisha as they discuss how we as the church can embrace the paradigm shift to a new structure in a church without walls. Their insightful conversation with this week’s guest, Terry Walling, offers a unique perspective on how nomadic believers are truly helping grow the church as they act as disciples within the community.
Terry Walling is a pastor, professor, and author of Unlikely Nomads: In Search of the New Church. He has also launched a podcast series in which he has conversations with a variety of people who are in search of a deeper journey with Jesus and with following Him in a different kind of church in America.
Key Takeaways:
-Moving in an Old, New Direction
-The Nomadic Believer
-Personal Renewal that Leads to Corporate Change
-Apprenticing the life of Jesus
-Embracing the MysteryResources:
http://leaderbreakthru.com/
Unlikely Nomads by Terry Walling
Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger
A Non-Anxious Presence by Mark Sayers
The Great Emergence
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Join Jim and Trisha as they discuss the concept of being vulnerable as a leader with author and keynote speaker, Jacob Morgan. Listen as they explore how the skill of balancing vulnerability and competency can empower leaders in both personal and professional settings.
Jacob Morgan is a remarkable and successful leader,keynote speaker, trained futurist, and author. His most recent book, Leading With Vulnerability, was published last year. Jacob pulls from his personal and professional experience as well as the results of many leadership polls and studies as he speaks to tens of thousands of leaders each year on how to fine tune their leadership skills.
Conversation Overview
Personal vs. Professional Vulnerability Balancing Competence and Connection The Specifics of Vulnerability Naming Your Emotions The Right Place and Time to be Vulnerable When Vulnerability HurtsResources
The Future Organization
Jacob's Substack
Leading With Vulnerability and Other Books by Jacob Morgan
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