Episodes
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The role has many names: âRunner,â âmover,â âbetting partner,â and âmule.â As skilled sports gamblers find themselves limited on apps, they turn to these affiliates to place their bets in return for a piece of the proceeds. Against the Rules decides to explore this murky world by signing up for mule-dom with one of the worldâs most skilled sports bettors.
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Constitutional lawyer and former US Solicitor Ted Olson recently died at the age of 84. Olson represented the state of New Jersey in its efforts to overturn a federal ban on sports gambling. Those efforts succeeded, as we hear in our episode "Welcome to the Garden State." But Olson and Michael Lewis talked about many other aspects of his vivid legal career. We're offering their full conversation today.
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Episodes manquant?
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Michael Lewis heads to Las Vegas to explore the way sports betting used to work, up until the day it was rapidly legalized by states around the country. We meet the betting sharps who figured out what others couldnât and set the odds for other bookies. That is, up until everyone seemed to have a casino on their smartphone. But the new online casino differs from the old ones in an important way: It doesnât take all bets.
For further reading:
Edward Thorpâs Beat the Dealer
âCigars, Booze, Money: How a Lobbying Blitz Made Sports Betting Ubiquitousâ by
Eric Lipton and Kenneth P. Vogel
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As the US election nears, Michael Lewis sits down with Nate Silver, co-host of the Pushkin podcast Risky Business (along with the writer, psychologist and professional poker player Maria Konnikova). They talk about why people bet on elections, the problem with sports gamblers in the United States, and Silverâs new book, On the Edge: The Art of Risking Everything.
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Is there a difference between fandom and religion? In Pittsburgh, it can be hard to tell. Fans of the cityâs football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, seem to have a cradle-to-grave devotion, complete with a golden relic, the âterrible towel.â Michael Lewis talks with sociologist Marci Cottingham, a native of Steeler Nation, about her work studying the religious overtones of fandom, and why the positive experiences of sports fans should get more scholarly attention.
For further reading: Marci Cottinghamâs Practical Feelings: Emotions as Resources in a Dynamic Social World
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It may seem like sports gambling got legalized overnight in the US. But it was in fact a winding road to get there. Michael Lewis speaks with legal historian and University of Chicago professor Alison L. LaCroix about all the factors that led to the Supreme Court overturning, in 2018, a federal law called the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act. And they explore why, in some eras of US history, the Court tends to lean towards âstates rightsâ arguments.
For further reading: Alison LaCroixâs The Interbellum Constitution: Union, Commerce, and Slavery in the Age of Federalisms
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How did we get from fantasy sports to legalized sports betting? The path is convoluted, but most of it winds through New Jersey. Michael Lewis speaks with former governor Chris Christie, among other Jersey politicians, as well as lobbyists for the gaming industry. Plus we hear from Ted Olson, the lawyer who kept bringing the Garden Stateâs constitutional challenge until it finally reached the Supreme Court â and hit a jackpot.
For further reading:
Albert Chenâs Billion Dollar Fantasy
Murphy v. NCAA
ESPN timeline of how sports betting was legalized
SCOTUS Blog: The Tenth Amendment, Anti-Commandeering and Sports Betting
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Bill Bradley was already famous in college as the epitome of certain American virtues: integrity, honesty, and athleticism. As an NBA star, he took those virtues to the big leagues. As a US Senator, he had a chance to codify some of them into law and prevent the rise of sports betting. But at the same time, others in Bradley's state were making huge money on this illicit form of gambling.
For further reading:
John McPheeâs A Sense of Where You Are
American Bettors Voice, non-profit advocacy for sports bettors co-founded by Gadoon âSpankyâ Kryollos.
Bill Bradleyâs Values of the Game
David Hill's The Vapors: Southern Family, the New York Mob, and the Rise and Fall of Hot Springs, America's Forgotten Capital of Vice
Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-congress/senate-bill/474See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Sports fans experience incredible highs and lows, and spend loads of money on a product over which they have no control. But for a long time, no one bothered to study the minds or impulses of fans. Michael Lewis finds out how that's changing as writers and academics learn more about the powerful psychology of fandom. Just in time for technology to exploit fandom more than ever.
For further reading:
Eric Simonsâ book The Secret Lives of Sports Fans
Research by Murray State University psychology professor Daniel Wann on fandom: https://murraystate.academia.edu/DanielWann
The Henry Tajfel Experiments
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Against the Rules is going to Vegas (by way of New Jersey!). Host Michael Lewis bets high and low to find out how Americans, and their state governments, got addicted to a new form of legalized gambling. This season, weâll meet bookies, lobbyists, lawyers and professional sharps. All in their own ways trying to figure out why fans might hitch their life savings to their favorite teamâs performance.
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Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison after being convicted of fraud and conspiracy. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean Kott were there in court. They talk about what happened with Judging Samâs legal expert, Rebecca Mermelstein, a former federal prosecutor and partner at O'Melveny and Myers.
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While Sam Bankman-Fried has been on trial, the cryptocurrency exchange he founded, FTX, has been going through bankruptcy proceedings. Jonathan Lipson, a professor at Temple Law School, tells Michael Lewis that he believes the proceedings have highlighted problems with the US bankruptcy system.
Jonathan Lipsonâs research paper âFTXâd: Conflicting Public and Private Interests in Chapter 11â is forthcoming in the Stanford Law Review. You can read a draft here.
You can listen to our previous interview about the FTX bankruptcy with Jonathanâs co-author, David Skeel, here.
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This fall we covered the trial of Sam Bankman-Fried, the founder of the failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX. He was found guilty of fraud and conspiracy and could face decades in prison. Now, we are covering his sentencing. Check here for those episodes starting the week of March 25th.
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Enjoy this episode of Freakonomics Radio, where Michael Lewis sat down with Stephen Dubner to discuss his book âGoing Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon.â
Description from the original episode:
Lewis got incredible access to Sam Bankman-Fried, the billionaire behind the spectacular FTX fraud. His book is a bestseller, but some critics say he went too easy on S.B.F. Lewis tells us why the critics are wrong â and what itâs like to watch your book get turned into a courtroom drama.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Enjoy this episode from another Pushkin Industries podcast, Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso.
Upon taking a walk with crypto billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried, writer Michael Lewis had a sense that there might be a story here. In the intervening two years, that story has taken a series of twists and turns, resulting in Lewisâ new book Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon.
At the top, we walk through Bankman-Friedâs Manhattan trial, the subject at the center of this winding story, and why Lewis was first interested in observing him. Then, he unpacks Bankman-Friedâs belief in effective altruism, his probabilistic approach to trading, and how his Stanford law professor parents shaped his thinking.
On the back-half, we discuss the ten-day period of FTXâs collapse, the scene in the Bahamas as Bankman-Fried filed for bankruptcy, and why Lewis felt a kinship with Samâs parents in that moment. To close, Michael reflects on his own journalistic tendencies and how he managed to write this book in the aftermath of great personal tragedy.
For thoughts, reflections, and guest suggestions, drop Sam a line at [email protected].
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Lidia Jean Kott talks to journalist Elizabeth Lopatto about what it was like to cover the trial, the similarities it shared with Elizabeth Holmesâ trial, and what this all says about millennials, fraud, and the future of the tech industry.
This conversation was recorded on November 13.
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
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It's all over. Sam Bankman-Fried was found guilty on all seven counts. But what now? Michael Lewis, Lidia Jean Kott, and Judging Samâs legal expert, OâMelveny defense attorney Rebecca Mermelstein, reflect on the outcome and look ahead to sentencing, SBF's other legal troubles, and the fate of the cooperating witnesses.
This conversation was recorded on November 7.
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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The jury, after about 4 and a half hours of deliberation, has delivered its verdict â guilty on all seven counts. Lidia Jean Kott was in the courtroom when it happened. Her conversation with financial reporter Jacob Goldstein was recorded on November 2.
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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CORRECTION: In an earlier version of this episode, our guest incorrectly stated that in the case of a hung jury, a defendant cannot be retried without risking double jeopardy. This is incorrect. If the jury hangs, then the defendant can be retried. We have edited the episode to remove this and apologize for the error.
Itâs nearly time for the jury to begin their deliberations. Theyâll file into a backroom at the courthouse, and SBFâs fate will be in their hands. But what goes on behind those doors? How will the jury get to its verdict? Trial consultant Ellen Leggett returns to the show to talk through the process with Lidia Jean Kott.
This conversation was recorded on October 27 and updated on November 1.
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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We're finally in the home stretch. Today the prosecution finished their cross examination of Sam Bankman-Fried, the defense followed up with a redirect, and then both sides rested. Itâs Michaelâs last day at court, but Lidia Jean will attend until the bitter end. They sit down to talk through the trial dayâs events.
This conversation was recorded on October 31.
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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