Episodes
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Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying law came into effect in June 2019. The first of its kind in Australia and touted as the most conservative in the world, the passing of Victoria’s law was a watershed moment for end-of-life care in this country.
More than eighteen months on, in April 2021, what effect is this law having on end-of-life care for terminally ill Victorians? Is the law working as planned? And is there room for improvement?
The final episode of Better Off Dead season two centres on a recording of the Wheeler Centre’s Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying panel discussion. Previously broadcast on Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, it features a panel discussion on voluntary assisted dying hosted by Paul Barclay. Panelists include Andrew Denton, founder of Go Gentle Australia and host of the Better Off Dead podcast; Justice Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board; Professor Phillip Parente, oncologist; and Ron Poole, a terminally ill Shepparton man who has chosen to access the voluntary assisted dying life-ending medication.
Our special thanks to Ron Poole, who generously took time out of the precious final days of his life to share his perspective on voluntary assisted dying. Ron died on 26 April, less than a week after this panel discussion took place. Our thoughts are with his loved ones.
"People come to this often – late. And they come late because they really haven’t known about it, haven’t been told about it or are in a situation where they don’t want to face mortality."
Justice Betty KingKnow moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auAudio: Legalising Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, part of Caxton Legal Centre's 'Justice in Focus' series. Presented in conjunction with QUT. Recorded on 21 February 2019Visit: Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Victorian Health official websiteIn order of appearance: Paul Barclay, Ron Poole, Andrew Denton, Phillip Parente, Betty King
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Page and transcript: Alice Boyle (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan LaserListen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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When Victoria’s VAD law was passed in 2017, it was touted by Premier Daniel Andrews as ‘the most conservative in the world’. This was true. Its 68 safeguards made it a far more daunting law for terminally ill people to access than similar laws in other countries.
But was it too daunting?
Much was said in parliament by opponents about the law’s ‘unintended consequences’. What if there are wrongful deaths? What if the doctor-patient relationship is damaged? Palliative care diminished?
None of these fears have turned out to be true. But that doesn’t mean there have been no unintended consequences. They’ve just turned out to be not as opponents argued.
In this episode, we hear from the families of two eligible Victorians who struggled to access VAD. And we hear something never heard before —-- a father and daughter as they actually go through the process of applying for a VAD permit, a process during which initial gratitude quickly turns to frustration, fear and anger.
Allan Cornell and his daughter Kristin: photo Supplied
“She wrote numerous letters and made numerous phone calls to, it seemed like, 30 neurologists, but nobody would do it. And Helen's doctor said ,’I think this is gonna be a race between us getting the approval for the VAD and you dying’”
Reg JebbHelen and Reg Jebb. photo: Supplied
“He was dying. He was suffering. He was begging, begging me the entire day to finish it. Where are they? Kristin? Where are they? Where are they?”
Kristin CornellKristin Cornell: “I am so encouraged by the existence of this legislation – but there is more we can do. We can do this better. It shouldn’t be so hard that one is tempted to give up.” Photo: Juliet Lamont
Embed playerListenEpisode Extra: Doctors Discuss the Unintended Consequences of Victoria's VAD LawKnow moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auArticle: ‘Assisted dying is not the easy way out’ — The Conversation, 19 Feb 2020Article: ‘Without more detail, it’s premature to say voluntary assisted dying laws in Victoria are ‘working well’’ — The Conversation, 21 Feb 2020Article: ‘Heartachingly painful: Allan waited for 100 days before being granted permit to die’ — The Age, 21 June 2020In this episodeIn order of appearance: Kristin Cornell, Allan Cornell, Reg Jebb, Betty King, Greg Mewitt, Nola Maxfield, Andrea Bendrups and Nick Carr
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: James DomeykoSpecial thanks to our interviewees Kristin Cornell and Reg Jebb for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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Episodes manquant?
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Whether it is through the words of the pope, his representatives the bishops and archbishops, or its surrogates in the medical profession, the Catholic Church remains the most determined force against voluntary assisted dying in Australia.
In 2020, The Vatican released its latest encyclical on assisted dying and euthanasia. They called it Samaritanus Bonus – the Good Samaritan – and this is what it had to say about people who seek assistance to die.
“Experience confirms that the pleas of gravely ill people who sometimes ask for death are not to be understood as implying a true desire for euthanasia; in fact, it is almost always a case of an anguished plea for help and love.”
Requests for assistance to die are ‘not to be understood as a true desire for euthanasia.’ In other words, the people making them are somehow misguided.
According to this narrative, people making such requests are likely to be demoralised; lonely; abandoned, feeling like a burden; or struggling to find meaning in – or even giving up on - their lives. And that, with the right kind of love and care, these things can be addressed.
In this episode, we hear from some of the most senior figures in Australian palliative care. We also hear from others who have a different understanding of such requests, and who believe that the people who make them can be both considered and rational.
Professor Michael Ashby Photo: Supplied
Palliative care clinician Molly Carlile AM: “It has to be about why are we doing this. Who is it for? If it's about us, we have to ask: how does our view on a whole lot of things influence our practice?” photo: Supplied
“It is not the role of any healthcare team to suggest that its ministrations can give meaning, purpose and dignity to a dying person’s remaining life if that person feels that these are irretrievably lost... Palliative care is a model of care, not a moral crusade.”
Professor Michael AshbyKnow moreVisit: Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auVideo: Assad, Assisted Dying and Satire – ABC TV Q&A, 10 April 2017Video: Q&A with the Archbishop - How do I explain the Catholic Church's teaching on euthanasia? – The Catholic Leader YouTube, 14 July 2014Video: Experienced Victorian doctors warn Tasmania on dangerous bill – Australian Care Alliance, 9 September 2020Video: Prof David Kissane: Euthanasia is terrible for medicine & society – Life, Marriage and Family Office 23 June, 2017Article: Defending the indefensible? Psychiatry, assisted suicide and human freedom – Profesor Malcolm Parker, International Journal of Law and Psychiatry, Volume 36, issues 5-6 2013In this episode (in order of appearance)Ron Fellows, Margaret Somerville, Patricia Fellows, Megan Best, Mark Coleridge, Jean Caliste, Jacqui Hicks, Nicole Robertson, Deb M, Katie Harley, Kristin Cornell, Peter Jones, Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Phillip Parente, Peter Lange, Betty King, Michael Dooley, Anthony Fisher, Stephen Parnis, Michael Ashby, Natasha Michael, David Kissane, Malcolm Parker, Roger Hunt, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Kit Denton, Peter Abetz,
CreditsBetter Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Simon Kindt, Aaron Gleeson, and Joe LodgeSpecial thanks to our interviewees Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Malcolm Parker and Molly Carlile for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with voluntary assisted dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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The assisted dying debate in Australia has revealed two parallel universes. The conservative Christian universe, which believes our lives belong to God; that whatever happens at the end of life is part of His plan. And the other universe – embracing 75% of Australians (including a majority of Christians) – with a shared belief we should have some control over how we die.
Two different, but both entirely sincere, belief systems.
What happens when these parallel universes intersect? What can it mean to die in a system where you are disempowered, and whose values you don’t share?
Dame Cicely Saunders Photo: Wikimedia Commons
Shayne Higson (second left), pictured with her sisters and their mother Jan (farthest right) who died of brain cancer: 'I thought that [with] terminal sedation … there would be no suffering, but that's not right' — Photo: supplied
“What people don't realise is that they're entering an environment with particular values, and a history about what is okay, or not okay, and the nature of suffering. And by entering into that the patient and the family is almost embarking on an unwritten contract – that death will be not on my terms, but on the terms of the institution”
Professor Alex BroomKnow moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auArticle: We do not like to talk about death -- but that doesn’t make euthanasia the answer -- Richard Chye, The Sydney Morning Herald, 14 November, 2017Article: Assisted dying: My mother had the best palliative care -- and even that was not enough -- Shayne Higson, The Sydney Morning Herald, 15 November, 2017Audio: Fearfully and Wonderfully Made (part 1) -- Megan Best, The Centre for Public Christianity, 24 June, 2013Film: ‘The Broken Hearted’ Go Gentle Australia, August 2019Jan K: 'You might think you're going to have great palliative care, but it is an absolute lottery. You can scream the place down if you want but, if they think that you're comfortable, that's it.' Photo: Joshua Raymond
In this episodeIn order of appearance:
Katie Harley, Megan Best, Alex Broom, Richard Chye, Shayne Higson, Roger Hunt, Jan K.
CreditsBetter Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Aaron GleesonSpecial thanks to our interviewees Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Roger Hunt and Jan K for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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At the heart of the political debate around voluntary assisted dying lies palliative care. On one side sits the argument that it can effectively deal with all pain and suffering, and that it should be made available to everyone before Assisted Dying is made legal.
On the other, a recognition that – for all its benefits – palliative care cannot help everyone, and that those beyond its help should not be left to suffer, or – as some do – take their own lives.
But beyond the political debate, within palliative care lies a much deeper argument. One about values.
Palliative care’s background is as a provider of Christian care; more than half of Australia’s palliative care is supplied by The Catholic Church. According to The Vatican, assisting someone to die is ‘intrinsically evil.’
By papal decree, any request by a person for help to end their life is not to be taken as genuine, but is to be understood instead as ‘an anguished plea for help and love.’
But some palliative care clinicians have a different set of values. They see that their primary purpose is to act in response to what their patient wants and needs.
It’s called person-centred care, a way of practising medicine that has been thrown into the sharpest focus imaginable by a law allowing doctors to help their patients to die.
Palliative care clinician, and death and dying expert Molly Carlile AM. Photo: supplied
‘The bottom line for me is, you can choose whether you want to stop having chemo or anything else that you consider as futile treatment. And we are the defenders of those people. So how can we say, in the same breath, “Yes, you can make your choices, so long as it's not voluntary assisted dying?”’
Palliative care clinician, Molly Carlile AMFor moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auVideo: Clive Deverall talk Freedom of Choice WA Launch – YouTube, 5 February 2017Article: Everyone Has the Right to Die Well – Molly Carlile, November 10, 2015Brochure: To Love to the End – Life, Marriage and Family Office, The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, 2011Dr Greg Mewett. ‘It's not for me to say how much someone's suffering and whether we can do more. It should be up to the individual.’ Photo: Juliet Lamont
In this episodeIn order of appearance
Jaala Pulford, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Andrew Sloane, Anthony Fisher, Megan Best, John Flader, Tim Harris, Natasha Michael, Stephen Parnis, Jane Morris, Clive Deverall, Lisa Hogg, Alex Broom, Jan Kelly
CreditsBetter Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Jon Murphy, Brendan John Warner, Simon Kindt, Aaron GleesonSpecial thanks to our interviewees Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby and Roger Hunt for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
Subscribe via iTunes or your favourite podcast app.
#betteroffdeadpod
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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In September 2020, as Tasmania’s Upper House prepared to debate an Assisted Dying bill, an article appeared on the online publication Mercatornet. Above a picture showing a graph of a flatlining heartbeat superimposed over an elderly hand was a headline in big, bold letters:
‘Grandma took her life yesterday. Her doctors helped her.’
The article described a lonely, elderly woman, seemingly abandoned by her family in a Melbourne nursing home during COVID, encouraged by her doctors to end her life using Victoria’s Assisted Dying law.
Photo: the image used by Mercatornet
Within days, it was being promoted by religious groups and The Australian Family Association as a warning to MPs about why they should vote down the Tasmanian bill.
In this episode, we reveal the truth behind that story. Who was Grandma? Had her family really abandoned her? Was her decision to die her own, or was she encouraged?
And what was it that connected the crusading author and the website that gave her story a global platform?
‘Just to get out of bed, you could tell she was in pain... she was really struggling. My brother said, ‘God, if Mum could have that medicine tomorrow, she would take it.’ Everybody was understanding because we all knew what she'd been through and didn't want her to go through that again.
‘Ruth’s’ daughter ‘Jane’For moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auAudio: Neil Mitchell clashes with former Catholic priest over protest outside Peter Mac Cancer Centre – 3AW Newstalk, 11 April 2019Video: Fatal Fraud: A case study of tactics employed against evidence-based public policy initiatives – Go Gentle Australia, August 2019Article: Code of Ethical Standards for Catholic Health and Aged Care Service in Australia – Catholic Health Australia, June 2001Medical and Biblical Response to Euthanasia -- Dr Megan Best and Dr Andrew Sloane – Christian Medical and Dental fellowship of Australia, 2019In this episodeIn order of appearance:
Neil Mitchell, Eugene Ahern, ‘Bronwyn’, ‘Jane’, Tom Kenyon, Helen Lord, Leon Compton, Megan Best, Andrew Sloane, Tom Keneally, Stephen Parnis, Roger Hunt, Greg Mewett, Molly Carlile
CreditsBetter Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’ written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Brendan John Warner, James Domeyko, Simon Kindt, Michael CusackSpecial thanks to interviewees ‘Jane’ and her family and Thomas Keneally for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, subscribe in iTunes, or via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your StoriesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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The key word in Victoria’s voluntary assisted dying law is the first one: ‘voluntary’. By law, any doctor, nurse, or other health professional who conscientiously objects can choose not to participate in a person’s request for voluntary assisted dying.
But how does an institution balance its employees legal right to conscientiously object with its obligation to care for its patients?
Colin M, champion swimmer. “They were just playing in the waves. And he got dumped in one of those freak accidents and he knew straight away that he'd had a catastrophic injury.” -- Photo: Supplied
In this episode, we meet Colin, a former champion swimmer and professor of philosophy who is dying and who has applied for the legal right to end his own life. Colin lives by the ancient Roman philosophy of Stoicism. This is what the Stoic Marcus Aurelius had to say about death: ‘Accept death in a cheerful spirit, as nothing but the dissolution of the elements from which each living thing is composed’. For a Stoic, it is good to “choose to die well while you can”.
Colin is living in a Catholic nursing home. They have a very different philosophy about death and dying. To a staunch Catholic, choosing to end your life early is to “to take the place of God in deciding the moment of death”.
What happens when these two ancient philosophies meet in one Melbourne nursing home?
And when does ‘conscientious objection’ become ‘conscientious obstruction’?
Sister Debra, niece Gabrielle, and nephew Elliot with Colin. “One of the most honourable people I think I've ever met.”-- Photo: Supplied
“I don't understand how people can think that that's a good or an ethical thing to do to someone, like physically and emotionally to put people through that suffering”
Colin’s sister, DebraStoic Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius: ““Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one” -- Photo: Shutterstock
For moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
Letter to Mercy Health, Go Gentle Australia, 15 January 2021
Response from Mercy Health, 7 February 2021
Article: ‘George Pell, Our Man in Rome’, – The Good Weekend Magazine, 26 February 2019
Article: ‘Stoicism in a time of pandemic: how Marcus Aurelius can help’ – The Guardian 25 April 2020
In this episode (in order of appearance):
Credits
Deb M, Andrea Bendrups, Elliot D, John Stanton, Mark Coleridge, Peter LangeBetter Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: James Domeyko, Aaron GleesonSpecial thanks to the family and medical carers of Colin M for their time for this episode.
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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There are many firsts in Betty King’s life. First female prosecutor for the state of Victoria. First female prosecutor for the Commonwealth of Australia. First female silk in Victoria. Now another – first Chair of Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board.
Reporting to parliament, the Board oversees the processes of the law with its 68 safeguards, ensuring that doctors adhere to the rules, and that the people seeking assistance to die are competent and not being coerced.
Of all the doubts raised by MPs in the parliamentary debate about assisted dying, none was more frequent than the fear that a vulnerable person may be coerced to their death by heartless relatives through the VAD law.
In this episode, we meet Betty – the “Guardian of the Safeguards’ – as well as doctors, palliative care physicians, pharmacists, VAD Care Navigators, and families of those who have been through the process to find out whether any of those fears have turned out to be true.
And we discover there is another, unwritten safeguard: To take this path, you have to have enormous courage.
The Hon. Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board speaking on the panel at the Wheeler Centre's Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying event - Photo: Tiffany Garvie
“It's not an easy process. But neither it should be. This is the ending of a life. And it ought to be treated in a serious manner. Because it's a serious thing to do.”
Betty KingKnow MoreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Interview with Justice Betty King’ Young Lawyers Journal, Law Institute of Victoria, 2010 Article: ‘King’s court: A one-off judge calls time’ – The Age, 9 July 2015 Article and interview: ‘Twelve months of voluntary assisted dying in Victoria’ – The Conversation Hour, ABC Radio National, 15 June 2020 Article: 'We're on the right side of history': Victoria’s assisted dying laws come into effect for terminally ill – The Age, 19 June 2019In this episode (in order of appearance):
Betty King, Stephen Parnis, John Daffy, John Stanton, Nola Maxfield, David Speakman, Susan D, Melanie D, Katie Harley, Andrea Bendrups, Greg Mewett, Nick Carr, Phillip Parente, Cameron McLaren, Peter Lange, Kristin Cornell, Lisa Hogg, Reg Jebb, Jean Caliste, Nicole Robertson, Jon Faine, Jacqui Hicks, Michael Dooley, Molly Carlile
CreditsBetter Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Aaron Gleeson, Martin PeraltaSpecial thanks to our interviewee Betty King for her time for this episode.
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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Imagine turning up to work one day to discover flyers outside your office accusing you of being a ‘death peddler’ and an ‘Uber service for poison’.
Professor Michael Dooley runs Victoria’s Statewide Pharmacy Service. When voluntary assisted dying became legal it was his job, and that of his team, to come up with medication that would effectively and painlessly end a terminally ill person’s life - and also a way to safely get it to them.
Statewide pharmacists Prof Michael Dooley (right) and David Seymour. “We've told them very, very clearly that if they take that medication, it will kill them. Saying that the first time to someone sitting two feet in front of you is probably the hardest part.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Michael and his team are the last step – and the final safeguard – in the long legal process a dying person has to go through to access the medication.
What is it like to walk into someone’s home to give them a draught designed to end their life? Who do they meet and what do they hear? And what happens if, at this very last step, they have to tell someone, ‘I’m sorry, but no.’?
“We find leaving very, very difficult. Because you have to say goodbye... and we've all talked about how we do it… And there's no easy way and we all have our own little way. You know, it's not a normal goodbye.”
Professor Michael DooleyNicole Robertson and Jacqui Hicks, with a photo of their mum Kerry Roberston. - Photo: Kristian Silva, ABC Melbourne
The Locked Box. - Photo: Supplied
Know MoreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Lethal medication sourced for Victoria’s voluntary euthanasia scheme’ – The Age, 4 January 2019Article: ‘Bendigo woman becomes first to use Victoria's Voluntary Assisted Dying law’ -- Go Gentle Australia, 4 August 2019Audio: ‘Daughters' emotional tribute to Kerry Robertson, Victoria's first person to use voluntary euthanasia laws’ – ABC Melbourne Mornings with Jon Faine, 5 August 2019Article: ‘Voluntary euthanasia to begin in Victoria as assisted dying laws take effect this week’ – ABC News, 16 June 2019In this episode (in order of appearance):
Kristin Cornell, Michael Dooley, Nicole Robertson, Debra M, Kristin Cornell, Jacqui Hicks, Jon Faine, Jean Caliste, Katie Harley, Liz Le Noble, Jason McKey
CreditsBetter Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Jon Murphy, Aaron Gleeson, Brendon John Warner, Simon KindtSpecial thanks to our interviewee Michael Dooley for his time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.
Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app.
#betteroffdeadpod
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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So much was said during Victoria’s parliamentary debate about the people who would choose voluntary assisted dying, were it to be made legal.
That they could not possibly know their own minds.
“I do not believe that an individual who is facing such enormous pressure and stress is capable of making a decision to end their own life.”
Nat Suleyman, MPThat the burden of possessing life-ending medication would be too much for them.
“If I was in that situation, I would probably think about it every hour — ‘Will I take it now? Will I take it tomorrow? Will I take it after I’ve watched my favourite TV show?”
Luke O’Sullivan, MLCThat they would be pushed into ending their lives by hard-hearted relatives.
“Sometimes the relatives might … be wanting to encourage the person to take their medicine — take their poison, I should say.”
Neil Angus, MPOr that they should never even need to make such a choice, because palliative care could alleviate all their pain and suffering.
“Advances in palliative care medicine have been prodigious, to the point where well-managed cases under best practice palliative care can eliminate physical pain and discomfort.”
Robert Clark, MPWhy don’t we just let these people speak for themselves?
Meet Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, and Peter Jones, three Victorians from very different backgrounds in the final stages of a terminal illness and facing potentially brutal deaths.
Ron Poole, 77 and his beloved dog Bobby. “ The thing that got me was people saying how brave I am! I’m not being brave. Bravery doesn’t come into it. ” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Peter ‘Frankie’ Jones. “My daughter’s going to lose someone she loves very much, as I am. That’s my biggest fear...” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Each has exhausted treatment options and been offered expert palliative care. Each has chosen to complete the VAD assessment and has in their possession life-ending medication that they can choose to take – or not – when the time is right.
Buoyed by the peace of mind of knowing they have an option to end their suffering if it becomes too great, all are determined to live what remains of their life to the full and say their goodbyes in the best way they know how.
Fiona McClure, 67 and her partner Wim Wansink: “I've been very impressed with the whole process. Everyone has been kind, knowledgeable, respectful, able to discuss the options. There was no sense of urgency.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
“I'd like to go out in a pretty dress with a pretty pink lipstick, and having just had a latte with a girlfriend. And I’m still looking forward to that glass of champagne after I take the draught. French champagne.”
Fiona McClure, metastatic stomach cancerKnow MoreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auWebsite: Doctors For Assisted Dying Choice, respecting rational patient end-of-life choices Article: ‘Reasons for Requesting Physician-Assisted Suicide’ -- Angela Morrow RN, VeryWellhealth, 23 March 2020E-book: ‘Beyond Pain: Why more resources for palliative care alone will not address the need for Voluntary Assisted Dying’ - Go Gentle Australia, Nov 2019In this episode (in order of appearance): Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink, Peter Jones
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Episode Artwork: Megan HerbertMusic: James Domeyko, Aaron Gleeson, Alex Gow, Martin Peralta
Special thanks to our interviewees Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink and Peter Jones for giving up their precious time for these interviews. Since recording this episode, Peter and Ron have died. Our thoughts are with their loved ones.
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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No group has done more to persuade politicians to oppose assisted dying in Australia over the last 20 years than doctors. Citing their Hippocratic Oath to ‘do no harm’, they argue that giving doctors the right to ‘kill’, instead of cure, will forever damage the doctor-patient relationship.
What they fight so fiercely to preserve is a world strongly influenced by Christian concepts of care, one where ‘doctor knows best’, even when it comes to the end of a person’s life.
Not all doctors feel this way. In this episode, we meet a number of physicians from very different backgrounds, who think the old paternalism is not always what’s best for their patients.
Dr Cameron McLaren - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Dr Nick Carr - “I remember how powerful it was ... I just held her hand and I kissed her forehead and said goodbye, because it just felt right.” - Photo: Supplied
Each came to voluntary assisted dying through different paths, but from similar clinical experiences: the undeniable reality that there are some people at the end of life for whom medicine, however skilfully applied, can do no more.
Far from being damaged by facilitating assistance to die, the relationships they have formed with their patients along the way have been among the most profound of their careers.
“I thought we were all going to do it. I think that was very naive in retrospect. When the legislation came out I thought ... you know, patients wanted this, that’s the reason it’s put in. We look after patients, we practise patient-centred care, which means we should be providing the services that they want. ”
Dr Cameron McLarenFurther readingVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auWebsite: Doctors For Assisted Dying Choice, respecting rational patient end-of-life choicesArticle: ‘Is the Hippocratic oath still relevant to practising doctors today?’ — The BMJ, 14 December 2016Viewpoint: ‘The Revised Declaration of Geneva: A Modern-Day Physician’s Pledge’ — The JAMA Network, 28 November 2017Article: ‘The inescapable truth: palliative care is not enough—we can and should legislate for assisted dying’ — Dr Arun Bhaskar, The BMJ Opinion, 25 September 2019Dr Nola Maxfield. “I think it's improved the relationship I've had with my patients.” - Photo: Supplied
Dr Phillip Parente. “Views that doctors are overstepping the mark are incorrect. We're allowing patients to take control.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
In this episodeIn order of appearance: Mark Yates, Nick Carr, Cameron McLaren, Nola Maxfield, Peter Lange, Phillip Parente, Lisa Hogg, Odette Spruijt, Helen Lord, Lisa Hogg, David Speakman, Katie Harley
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Anthurium and Brendon John Warner
Episode artwork: Megan HerbertSpecial thanks to our interviewees Cameron McLaren, Nick Carr, Greg Mewett, Andrea Bendrups, Peter Lange, David Speakman and Phillip Parente for their time for this episode.
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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“Thou shalt not kill” - The Sixth Commandment
Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying law was written to allow an eligible, terminally ill patient to drink a lethal medication to end their suffering; choosing to drink being considered the ultimate voluntary act.
But the law allows, in exceptional circumstances, for a doctor to intravenously administer that medication to end their patient’s life.
Who would need such a thing? And what impact does it have on a doctor when they are asked to transgress the age-old commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’?
Katie Harley and her father ‘Lucky’ Phil Ferrarotto. “It was like Dad designed … those last few moments and it was exactly the way he wanted it.” - Photo: Supplied
In this episode, we meet oncologist Cam McLaren, who is faced with the question, “Am I capable of ending my patient’s life?” And we meet Katie Harley. Her father Phil – Cam’s patient – has had so many forms of cancer, he’s like a gothic version of the Cheshire Cat – more and more of him removed till just about all that’s left is his smile.
But smile he still does. Because, despite everything, Katie's dad calls himself ‘Lucky Phil’.
“Till the day I die, it'll be the most courageous thing I've ever seen anyone do. To look a man in the eye and to know that he's about to end your life and then to write him a letter and say thank you, that's courage beyond measure.”
Katie Harley, Phil’s daughterKatie and Dr Cameron McLaren. “Something incredible happened between Dad and Cam. They built up a fabulous rapport.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Further readingVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
Article: 'It was kindness and it was a mercy: The doctor helping people to die’– The Age, 26 December 2019 Video and article: ‘Victoria’s euthanasia scheme sees more than 52 people use assisted dying in first six months’ – AAP/7News, 19 February 2020 Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020 In this episodeIn order of appearance: Mark Yates, Cameron McLaren, Katie Harley, Ray Godbold, Robyn Godbold, Tara Godbold, Rory Godbold, Ella Godbold, Mariska Koster
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Episode artwork: Megan Herbert
Special thanks to our interviewees Katie Harley and Cameron McLaren for their time for this episode.
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.#BetterOffDeadpod
Phil’s letter to Cameron. “I am so proud of the job that you have done. And I'm eternally thankful. Best wishes for your future, mate. Phil Ferrorotto” - Photo: Juliet Lamont
Your storiesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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Warning: This episode of Better Off Dead contains references to suicide and self-harm. These include discussions about how some terminally ill people have tried to end their lives in the absence of voluntary assisted dying laws. We are aware of the Mindframe guidelines on appropriate language around the discussion of suicide and self-harm, and we have endeavoured to limit this detail.
If you are likely to be distressed by this material, we recommend that you proceed with caution. Please have a self-care plan in place and let others know that you may be upset. Please see a list of services at the bottom of this episode page.
The images from 9/11 of people jumping from the World Trade Centre to escape the searing heat of the buildings melting beneath them haunt us still.
Accepting that the only choice facing these people was a choice of how they would die – death by fire, or falling into oblivion – NYC’s Chief Medical Examiner, Charles Hirsh, chose to classify their deaths, not as suicides, but as homicides.
In the Victorian parliamentary debate, MPs opposed to voluntary assisted dying repeatedly described it as ‘state sanctioned suicide’. But is offering a dying person a choice about how they die the same as suicide?
Perhaps the most persuasive voice that convinced MPs to legalise assisted dying was that of coroner John Olle. The lonely and brutal suicides he described to a parliamentary inquiry – of elderly and terminally ill Victorians beyond the help of palliative care, rational people supported by loving families – sent a shock wave through the parliament.
In this episode we meet Lisa, whose mum Margaret was a fiercely independent 82-year-old woman dying of a rare degenerative neurological disease. The race to meet the strict eligibility requirements of the VAD law, before she lost the ability to communicate her wish to be helped to die, meant that for Margaret each waking day was filled with fear.
Faced with the prospect of her illness moving faster than the law, and that she will not be able to leap free, will Margaret have no choice but to be taken by the fire?
Lisa Hogg and her mother Margaret “Mum was always a person who did things on her terms.” - Photos: supplied
“For the months preceding Mum initiating the VAD process, Mum would say things like, ‘I’ve worked out how to do it’. My sister would ask, ‘Do what?’ and she would say that she had worked out how she was going to kill herself. The methods included throwing herself out of bed onto the hard floor and cutting herself with scissors or a knife.”
Lisa Hogg, Margaret’s daughter Further readingVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.auArticle: ‘Dying with dignity: Coroner’s Court weighs in to euthanasia debate ahead of historic report’ – The Age 28 May, 2016Article: ‘She died quietly and peacefully with her family around her’ – Go Gentle Australia, 5 August 2020Video and article: ‘Lawrie’s Last Letter’ – Go Gentle Australia, 26 October 2016Video: ‘Homily on Assisted Dying’— Bishop Tim Harris, Archdiocese of Townsville, 11 October 2020Letter: A Pastoral Letter to the People, Clergy and Religious Catholic Communities of Queensland, Bishops’ Pastoral Letter on No Euthanasia Sunday, 11 October 2020Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020Film: ‘The Broken Hearted’ Go Gentle Australia, August 2019Statement: ‘Suicide” Is Not the Same as Physician Aid in Dying’ – The American Association of Suicidology, Approved October 30, 2017.A photo that says everything: VAD allowed Lisa’s mum Margaret to say goodbye, bathed in love and surrounded by her full tribe. “We kept saying to mum look at you, you created this. This is your legacy." - Photo: supplied
In this episodeFor legal reasons, the words of Parliamentarians spoken in this episode are performed by actors.
In order of appearance: Lisa Hogg, Lawrie Daniel, Rebecca Daniel, Tim Harris, Mark Coleridge, Nick Goiran.
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Episode artwork: Megan HerbertSpecial thanks to our interviewees Lisa Hogg and the Daniel family for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©
Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
Your stories
#BetterOffDeadpodIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and .
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
If you or someone you know needs support please contact one of the following 24/7 support services: Lifeline on 13 11 14, The Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine Australia (1300 789 978), or Kids Helpline (1800 551 800).
If you are at risk of harm to yourself or others, contact emergency services immediately by dialling Triple 0.
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Spurred by watching his own father die painfully, in 2015 Andrew Denton set out to investigate – why are good people being forced to die bad deaths?
Five years later, Victoria is the first state in Australia to have passed a voluntary assisted dying law. In the first year of the law’s operation, over 120 people sought assistance to die. More than a year into its operation, it is possible to look at the hypothetical harms (and genuine fears) raised by those opposed to the law and compare them with the actual experience of assisted dying.
Paul, Michelle and Jean Caliste, with a photo of Robbie — Paul, Michelle and Jean Caliste. Photo: Michael Gleeson, ABC News supplied by Go Gentle Australia
In the first episode of season two of Better Off Dead, we meet the family of 36-year-old Robbie Caliste. Robbie was diagnosed with motor neurone disease (MND) in the same year the Victorian parliament endorsed medical assistance to die. In November 2019, he became the youngest person to die under the law.
Robbie and his parents Jean and Michelle help us understand the word which, more than any other, underpins what this law is all about; a word beyond ‘pain’ – suffering.
“He didn't want Motor Neuron Disease to win ... He didn't want to be literally that prisoner in the body and looking at you with his eyes. It had done enough damage to him and he knew what the outcome was going to be.” – Jean and Michelle Caliste
Robbie Caliste with his mother and brother — Photo: Supplied
Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.
If you or someone you know needs support please contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). If you are at risk of harm to yourself or others, contact emergency services immediately by dialling Triple 0.
Know moreVisit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
Article: ‘More than 130 Victorians apply to end their lives in first six months of state's assisted dying laws’ – ABC News, 19 February 2020
Article and audio: ‘Twelve months of voluntary assisted dying in Victoria’ - The Conversation Hour, ABC Radio National, 15 June 2020
Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020
Article and video: ‘Spotlight on Carers: A Reality and a Labour of Love’ by Jean Caliste – MND Victoria, 19 October 2020
Photo: Supplied
In this episodeIn order of appearance: Jean Caliste, Pip Denton, Jo Denton, Spencer Ratcliffe, Shayne Higson, Ella Godbold, Robyn Godbold, Heather Bell, Rory Godbold, Shayne Higson, Karen Hitchcock, Michelle Caliste, Peter Abetz, Stephen Parnis, Nancy Elliott, Kylie Monaghan, Chris Morgan, John Daffy, Ian Haines, Natasha Michael, Mark Coleridge, Helen Lord.
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.
Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work.
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Episode artwork: Megan Herbert
Special thanks to our interviewees Jean and Michelle Caliste for their time for this episode.
Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.
Your stories
#BetterOffDeadpodYour stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
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Andrew Denton investigates the stories behind Victoria’s landmark Voluntary Assisted Dying (VAD) law: Who seeks to use it, and why? Who are the doctors stepping forward to help them? And how does the church continue to resist a law it describes as ‘evil’?
Co-produced by Go Gentle Australia and the Wheeler Centre, season two of Better Off Dead looks at what happened in Victoria after the legislation came into effect in June 2019.
"It’s not an easy process. But neither should it be. This is the ending of a life. And it ought to be treated in a serious manner – because it's a serious thing to do." – Former Supreme Court Justice, Betty King, now Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board.
Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit Conversations Matter or BeyondBlue.
If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890).
In this episodeIn order of appearance: Andrew Denton, Katie Harley, Dr Kristin Cornell, Jean Caliste, Dr Greg Mewett, Dr Cameron McLaren, Professor Michael Dooley, Former Justice Betty King QC, Molly Carlile AM, Archbishop Mark Coleridge, Dr Andrea Bendrups, Lisa Hogg.
Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia
Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)
Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan LaserListen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or via your favourite podcast app.
#BetterOffDeadpod
Your StoriesIf you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.
TranscriptDownload a transcript of this episode in PDF format.
