Episodes
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To wrap things up in this final episode of the first season of BEYOND LEANING IN, Melanie and Carla discuss what organizations are up against and why Melanie is passionate about using the imaginative arts as a surprising tool to solve today’s problems. Melanie also shares what her company Strategic Imagination is all about and how she hopes to utilize the arts including fiction, theatre and drawing to help organizations find new solutions to increasingly complicated problems. Tune in to learn why Fortune 500 companies like Lowe’s and Nike are hiring science fiction writers to help them envision their futures, and how Melanie’s innovative work aims to revolutionize the way organizations approach DEI.
Thank you so much for tuning in during this first season of BEYOND LEANING IN. Please leave your suggestions for Melanie through her website, pick up your own copy of the book, and stay tuned for information on Strategic Imagination workshops and events!
Jump straight into:
(00:40) - Introduction: Sparking discussion and further change - “Beyond Leaning In is what I see as the inaugural or first initiative of my company, Strategic Imagination.”
(04:13) - Why artists are being hired to envision organizations’ futures - “Lowe's was suddenly really seen as an innovator and that happened because they were able to unlock the power of science fiction and the arts.”
(08:02) - The importance of liberal arts - “I ended up designing my own major because that was really the only way to figure out how to unlock what the arts could do to help people think about these different kinds of topics.”
(12:36) - A set of tools to problem-solve in a different way - “You can actually think of drawing in a different way, which is just drawing as a way to free your mind, and to think more creatively and think differently.”
(16:27) - The top goals for Strategic Imagination - “My hope is that participants are able to use that power of drawing to begin to envision a whole wide range of potential solutions.”
(19:40) - How to get out of the default answer through art - “Art therapy has become increasingly popular among psychotherapists because it actually does help people deal with difficult issues and talk about things in a different way.”
(22:15) - What is next for Beyond Leaning In and Strategic Imagination? - “What's on your wishlist for how I can help?”
Resources
Learn more about Melanie’s workshops
Sign up to host a book club with Melanie
See and share Melanie’s 31 Days of #BeyondLeaningIn Webcomics
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
Learn more about Strategic ImaginationSee MacArthur Genius & Cartoonist
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After six podcast episodes, including many discussions with men and women in different fields and at different levels in their careers, co-hosts Melaine Ho and Carla Hickman discuss the top five takeaways for gender equity from the book BEYOND LEANING IN. These are concepts shared in the book and discussed in previous episodes; key ideas that resonate with the early readers that are fundamental to keeping the conversation about equity moving forward: Mental Autocompletes, Points vs. Assists, Generational Differences, Creating Empathy with a Novel and Organizational Impatience. Join this conversation with Melanie and Carla to reflect on everything we’ve learned on this six-episode journey!
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book. Also, don’t forget to get a copy of BEYOND LEANING IN in any of its formats, now available on Amazon.
Resources
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
See and share Melanie’s 31 Days of #BeyondLeaningIn Webcomics
Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter
Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter
How Reading Fiction Increases Empathy and Encourages Understanding
Training to Stop Anti-Asian/Amerian and Xenophobic Harassment
Thanks for joining us today! Don’t forget to visit our website for more information, and feel free to reach out to contribute to these important discussions. This show has been produced by StudioPod Media.
Jump straight into:
(00:39) - The 5 most important concepts to take away from BEYOND LEANING IN - “What I love about the novel is that it gave people from different perspectives a way to engage in these really complex and often emotionally charged topics.”
(04:32) - #1 Mental Autocompletes - “If someone thinks CEO and automatically thinks of a male person, it's not because they mean to be biassed, it's because of all of the programming throughout their life, since childhood.”
(08:08) - #2 Points vs. Assists - “Men are socialized to speak up more and highlight their own voice, and women are socialized more to listen and amplify others.”
(11:34) - #3 Generational Differences - “Gen Xers and Boomers in the workplace, really understanding the sacrifices that they made in order to shatter glass ceilings, to make it into the C Suite.”
(13:04) - #4 The benefits of a novel - “The...
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Episodes manquant?
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In this episode of BEYOND LEANING IN, Melanie and Carla talk about allyship between different generations of women in the workplace. As always, we listen to an excerpt from the book, in this scene we join a meeting where a group of interns is assigned different tasks but the male intern is given more rewarding and meaningful work than the women. Then Melanie has a conversation with Alexandra Jacobson the CEO and founder of Worked Up, a community of professional women seeking meaningful opportunities to grow their careers. Join this conversation on the opportunity gap and it’s compounding effects, and hear what younger generations entering the workforce think about gender bias.
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book. Also, don’t forget to get a copy of BEYOND LEANING IN in any of its formats, now available on Amazon
Jump straight into:
(00:39) - Behind the writing: Spanning across multiple generations - “I definitely had in my head, as I was writing the book, all different kinds of readers across genders, generations, different kinds of industries, what did I want them to think?”
(03:29) - How the workspace looks for millennials and Gen Z’s - “If a woman in college reads this, even high school, this is a way for them to understand what they're going to be up against and be ready for it.”
(06:51) - Book Excerpt: The assignment meeting - “Cassandra knew the finance department's leadership team, they weren't people who consciously thought men should do the financial analysis work and women should plan the parties and help with slides. That was the problem though. The unintentional nature of these opportunity gaps made it even harder to root them out.”
(17:13) - Alexandra Jacobson on starting the Worked Up internship program - “I ended up interviewing over 200 women, and I kept hearing the same things that I experienced echoed by so many of these women’s crippling fear of failure, lack of confidence, internalization of gender bias experiences, and imposter syndrome.”
(21:16) - Gen Z and the opportunity gap - “Progress has been made in getting more women into senior leadership positions, but what's really affecting the talent pipeline happens way earlier than the glass ceiling. It happens at the first promotion to manager.”
(24:52) - Informal work culture, allyship and how it may affect women - “So many deals and decisions are primed, if not made, in out-of-office informal settings. Those informal settings are so critical for developing that trust and that bond.”
(30:12) External mentorship for Gen Z and their expectations for building their careers - “There is this huge level of uncertainty around what the future of work is going to look like and how to make a career plan when there is so much up in the air.”
(35:04) - A socially and politically inclined generation - “They're not waiting for the older generations to solve these problems for them, they're really taking matters into their own hands.
And I think that they're going to continue doing that in the...
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In today’s episode of BEYOND LEANING IN, we listen to an excerpt from the book following Amber as she finds herself at a neighbor barbecue in a conversation about the risks that women are constantly calculating in their heads. Spoiler alert: The women at the BBQ don’t feel the same way as the men. Then Melanie sits down with a former college classmate, certified psychologist Dr. Huong Diep, who works with BIPOC and LGBTQ communities and specializes in global mental health, to talk about the concept of mental chatter. They discuss what mental chatter is, just how common it is, why women and people of color often have an extra layer, how it connects to imposter syndrome and how Dr. Diep helps her clients recognize mental chatter and combat its negative effects. Join this conversation now!
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book. Also, don’t forget to get a copy of BEYOND LEANING IN in any of its formats, now available on Amazon.
Resources
How Reading Fiction Increases Empathy and Encourages Understanding
Training to Stop Anti-Asian/Amerian and Xenophobic Harassment
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
See and share Melanie’s 31 Days of #BeyondLeaningIn Webcomics
Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter
Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter
Thanks for joining us today! Don’t forget to visit our website for more information, and feel free to reach out to contribute to these important discussions. This show has been produced by StudioPod Media.
Jump straight into:
(01:52) - Book Excerpt: Amber finds herself in a conversation about the risks women are constantly on guard about - “In the workplace, you didn't have to worry about whether someone was going to slip something in your coffee, or if a potential perpetrator was hiding behind a corner, most of the time anyway, but you still had to be constantly on your guard.”
(08:10) - Dr. Huong Diep on mental chatter - “Definitely for marginalized communities, that chatter is much louder and oftentimes that's what leads to additional fatigue.”
(11:46) - Good mental chatter and bad mental chatter - “Our brains are...
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In today’s episode of Beyond Leaning In, we read an excerpt from the book where one of the characters finally speaks her mind about a topic concerning her new boss. To discuss this scene, we are joined by the producer of the show, Katie, and her sister Heather, who is the CEO of an engineering company in the railroad industry. As professional women, have they ever felt the need to bite their tongues? What’s their take on the topic? What does looking “professional” really mean to them? Please let us know which part of the book sparked conversation for you through our social media.
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book.
Jump straight into:
(00:39) - Unexpected ideas: Biting your tongue - “There were themes that I had a rough sense I wanted to go through from the research, but there were also ideas that just kind of unexpectedly came up as I was writing.”
(04:02) - The new boss: Deborah’s conversation with Amber - “There was a sporadic pause in her step that Deborah couldn't help but notice. She'd seen it many times across her career. It was an indicator of a person who wanted to say something, but hadn't decided if they would, or not.”
(14:52) - Wrapping your comments in bubble wrap: Katie and Heather’s thoughts on speaking up - “You're going to be too strong or you're going to be too weak for not speaking out. It's a very fine line that women have to walk.”
(22:06) - Why do we hold our tongues? Praise or penalization - “Women and minorities get shut down so quickly. Like ‘nice story moving on’ and then you just learn to shut down.”
(25:35) - Walk in our shoes: Why men should read Beyond Leaning In - “I think that is a huge group of people that could be the change makers and that would benefit hugely from this book.”
(28:30) - Coming off “professional” in the workplace - “Our husbands just walk around being who they are, wherever they are. We walk around like ‘Okay, I am this person when I'm at work’.”
(32:04) - Doing things differently - “We need to work on these little boundaries, the microaggressions. How do we train our brains to not be biased in the way that we used to be.”
(36:43) - I don’t want to be THAT woman: Carla’s take on speaking up - “They don't want to be the woman who's raising all of the gender equity issues, because then that will be how they're defined rather than as being successful and effective.”
(41:01) - Reverse mentorship? How to listen to younger generations - “Reverse mentors can help because more junior staff are often closer to the line. They understand challenges that the executives may not see.”
Resources
Listen to the full Audiobook:Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho!
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie...
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In the third episode, we discuss the concept of “points vs. assists'' with two early readers of BEYOND LEANING IN, Jeff Martin and Jackson Boyer and explore the role men can have in recognizing and addressing gender inequity in the workplace. From meeting etiquette to the differences between the conditioning men and women receive from an early age, there is a lot to talk about!
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book.
Jump straight into:
(01:27) - Male allies and the role they can play in combating gender inequity - “We're not going to solve the problem if it's just women talking to one another. That just reinforces the idea that it's our fault and that we all need to lean in.”
(03:00) - On the limitations of diversity and equity training - “So much of the problem with current diversity, equity and inclusion trainings is that you're running from meeting to meeting and then suddenly are thrust into this situation where you have to discuss really complicated topics without any of that reflection beforehand.”
(12:55) - The points vs. assists metaphor explained - “It was like the value of the point, as opposed to the value of the assist, the assist helping someone else advance or clarify their ideas should be as important as each individual scoring more points.”
(16:09) - Guest Jackson Boyer discusses being coached to speak up more - “I definitely have my own socialization to be assertive in a meeting, not just as a CEO, but as a man in general. And I think I was very quiet in college seminars and sort of beat myself up because of that. A lot of my friends were very good at inserting themselves into conversations. I'd actually been told by advisors to interrupt people more, to exert my agenda on the meeting.”
(24:40) - Guest Jeff Martin reflects on men talking to each other - “Conversations among men about gender equity in the workplace are probably few and far between.”
(33:56) - Carla explaining the true story that inspired this chapter and concept - “Early readers, particularly with this specific excerpt that we all just listened to, they're like, ‘Did Melanie dream this up? Where did this come from? Like, you know, did this come from her research? Was this personal experience?’ And I happen to know that this one actually does have a really good backstory.”
Resources
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
See and share Melanie’s 31 Days of #BeyondLeaningIn Webcomics
Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter
Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter
Thanks for joining us today! Don’t forget to visit our
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Why is it that when we go to a restaurant, the check is almost always handed to men instead of women? In this episode, we read an excerpt from BEYOND LEANING IN exploring the concept of “metal auto-completes,'' and discuss it with two early readers, Veronica and Steven Lafamina: How can we change our mindset regarding gender? What does it mean to be a leader? Are we passing on these ideas to our kids? Join our hosts, Melanie and Carla, to reflect on the real-life experiences that inspired the situations in the book and why we must stop perpetuating them.
Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book.
Jump straight into:
(01:49) - Excerpt 1: Who pays the check? - “Quite simply, the autocomplete in his brain had told him that it must be a sir who paid the bill.”
(05:42) - Excerpt 2: Mental autocomplete in the workplace - “The female paragraphs were more likely to include basic job descriptions. The paragraphs for men were more likely to have phrases like leader and trailblazer.”
(08:26) - Veronica and Steven’s experience with gender bias - “We all have implicit associations, we automatically connect fire engines with red in our brain. That's true also when it comes to gender dynamics, race dynamics, and kind of who we think of when we hear these certain terms.”
(18:22) - What it means to be a leader - “If you are a woman who has succeeded in the business environment either you're like, ‘I did it, they can too’ or you're like, ‘I survived that and I want to make sure it's better for others’.”
(25:47) - The real-life experiences that inspired the book - “In the scene we just heard where Deborah looks at the promotion memo that she just sent out where Michael is recognized for his revenues and Mara is recognized for her baking skills, that was one that actually came up a lot.”
Resources
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
See and share Melanie’s Comics on Mental Auto-Completes
Learn more about NaNoWriMo Writing Month
Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter
Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter
Thanks for joining us today! Don’t forget to visit our website for more information, and feel free to reach out to contribute to these important discussions. This show has been produced by StudioPod, for more information, check out their website.
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Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book.
On the first episode, our hosts give us a quick glimpse at Melanie's book, Beyond Leaning In, talking about the inspiration behind the book, the major issues it covers, why Melanie wrote a business book as a novel, and how this podcast will become a platform for discussion about positive change and impact in gender equity.
Jump straight into:
(03:40) - The problem with “just leaning in” - “It felt like the blame was being put on us, that the lack of gender equity was our fault.”
(07:26) - On the three main systemic barriers in the workplace for women - “Why aren't the men told that maybe they should listen and maybe this is a point to lean out and to help amplify the voices of others around the table?”
(14:51) - The opportunity gap and what makes it so hard for females to speak up - “It reminds me of how often in my early career, as a manager, I would frame my opinion as a question, instead of simply stating what I think we should do or what I believe.”
(17:31) - Teaching through fiction: The power of storytelling to educate generations - “I loved this idea of novels that can help us learn and make sense of the world around us, and it was something that I actually didn't realize until I entered the corporate world, it was more common than I had realized.”
(28:46) - How a novel will encourage discussion and change - “I think it's going to be really exciting to just get a sense of how these different groups are able to have conversations that they might not have otherwise.”
Resources
Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho
Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter
Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter
Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg
TED Talk: Why we have too few women leaders with Sheryl Sandberg
The Goal by Eliyahu M. Goldratt
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick M. Lencioni
Death by Meeting by...
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Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You are invited to listen and join the conversation along with early readers, women and men across generations and from a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book. Follow and connect with Melanie Ho on Instagram and Twitter to share your stories and suggest further discussions. BEYOND LEANING IN is produced by StudioPod Media. Edits were made by Nodalab. Music is by Mountain House. Please subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast and visit www.beyondleaningin.com for more information about the book and how to be a part of the BEYOND LEANING IN conversation and community.
