Episodes
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The BRICS+ summit was held in the Russian city of Kazan this past October. The original BRICS comprised four countries: Brazil, Russia, India, and China. The first meeting that they held was in 2009. South Africa joined in 2011. BRICS has now grown to include Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates. The recent summit also invited 13 countries to the group as partner states. Countries that have expressed interest in joining BRICS include Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand (which is a U.S. treaty ally), and Turkey (which is a member of NATO).
As countries in the Global South flock to form an increasingly significant geopolitical bloc in which China has assumed a leading role, it is important to understand how BRICS+ fits into China’s foreign policy strategy and the role that the BRICS mechanism is likely to play going forward. To discuss these issues, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Alexander Gabuev, director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center which is based in Berlin. His research focuses on Chinese and Russian foreign policy.
Timestamps
[00:00] Start
[01:37] Behind the Creation of BRICS
[04:08] BRICS+ in China’s Foreign Policy Objectives
[06:20] Domination of China in BRICS+
[09:13] Russian and Chinese Interest in BRICS+
[14:16] China and the Expansion of BRICS
[18:07] Noteworthiness of the Kazan Declaration
[21:10] Possibility of a BRICS Currency
[28:11] BRICS+ and U.S. Policy Under Donald Trump
[30:26] Responding to BRICS+ and a Multipolar World
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China is the world’s largest energy consumer and carbon emitter, accounting for one-third of global CO2 emissions. One of its biggest sources of emissions is coal, which plays a central role in China’s economy. At the same time, however, China is the world’s leading supplier of renewable energy, largely due to significant government investments in green technologies, including solar manufacturing, batteries, and minerals. In September 2020, China’s leader Xi Jinping announced the goal of achieving peak CO2 emissions before 2030 and carbon neutrality before 2060.” This ambitious pledge, if realized, will be an important step in global efforts to limit global warming.
In the past few years, the increasingly competitive and fraught relationship between the United States and China has spilled into the climate domain, threatening the potential for both countries to work together to address climate change. That is the topic of a recent commentary co-authored by Margaret Pearson and Michael Davidson. The paper is titled, “Where are the US and China on addressing climate change?”, and it can be found on the Brookings Institution website. In this episode of China Global, host Bonnie Glaser speaks with one of the authors, Michael Davidson, who is an assistant professor at the School of Global Policy and Strategy and the Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Department of the Jacobs School of Engineering at the University of California San Diego.
Timestamps
[01:57] China’s Approach to Addressing Climate Change
[04:26] Considerations Behind China’s Climate Policy
[07:37] Doubling Down on Coal Domestically
[10:34] Evaluating China’s Progress Toward Carbon Neutrality
[14:42] Security and China’s Climate Change Policy
[19:13] China’s International Climate Cooperation
[22:45] US-China Working Group on Enhancing Climate Action
[30:27] The Green Belt and Road Initiative
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Episodes manquant?
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For many years, China’s nuclear doctrine was widely described as “minimum nuclear deterrence,” which essentially means that it relied on a limited number of nuclear weapons to deter an adversary from attacking. China’s authoritative defense white papers asserted that China sought to maintain a lean, effective and credible deterrent force, was committed to the policy of no first use of nuclear weapons, pursued a defensive nuclear strategy and would never enter into a nuclear arms race with any other country.
In recent years, however, China has begun to expand and modernize its nuclear forces. Beijing is not transparent about its nuclear arsenal or its doctrine, however, which creates uncertainty for the United States and its allies.
To help us decipher Beijing’s rapid nuclear expansion, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by John Culver, a nonresident senior fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Global China Hub and a former CIA senior intelligence officer. He is a co-author of a recent report published by the Atlantic Council titled “Adapting US Strategy to Account for China’s Transformation into a Peer Nuclear Power.”
Episode Highlights
[1:55] Key identifiable changes in China’s nuclear forces
[3:49] China’s nascent nuclear triad
[6:51] The drivers of China’s nuclear expansion
[11:00] The recent ICBM test and its implications
[14:50] How China might use its nuclear weapons
[18:43] Will China change its nuclear declaratory policy
[24:59] How China’s relationship with Russia could shape Beijing’s calculous
[27:45] How the U.S. and its allies should respond
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There are many writings by Western scholars on Chinese foreign as well as domestic policy. Yet few have ventured to analyze the internal intellectual debates in China that, either partly or significantly, shape Chinese policymaking. A recent book from the European Council on Foreign Relations titled The Idea of China: Chinese Thinkers on Power, Progress, and People, intends to fill that gap. Written by Alicja Bachulska, Mark Leonard, and Janka Oertel, the book presents some of the leading Chinese perspectives on a range of contemporary global as well as domestic issues.
To help us further understand Chinese thinking and its significance, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Alicja Bachulska, one of the co-authors of the book and a policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations.
Timestamps
[01:22] Significance of Intellectual Debates in China
[04:31] Gauging the Candor of Interview Responses
[06:35] Who are the China solutionists?
[08:25] Examining the “Great Changes” Taking Place
[11:52] Strengthening China’s Discourse Power
[15:22] Where is China successfully shaping narratives?
[18:05] China on the Defense or Offense
[22:36] Rising East, Declining West
[28:49] Responding to Chinese Discourse in the Global South
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The Forum on China–Africa Cooperation, or FOCAC, was established in 2000 as a platform for facilitating multilateral cooperation between the People’s Republic of China and countries in Africa. A FOCAC summit is held every three years and is the occasion to issue joint declarations and a three-year China-Africa program plan. The 2024 FOCAC took place in Beijing from September 4th to September 6th under the theme “Joining Hands to Advance Modernization and Build a High-Level China-Africa Community with a Shared Future.” Heads of state and delegations from 53 African countries attended the forum, which made it the largest diplomatic event held by China this year.
To discuss the recent FOCAC meeting and Chinese interests in Africa, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Mr. Paul Nantulya who is Research Associate at the Africa Center for Strategic Studies at National Defense University. His research interests center on African security issues, and China-Afro-Asia engagements.
Timestamps
[00:00] Start
[01:38] History of the Forum on China–Africa Cooperation
[03:56] FOCAC and Chinese Interests in Africa
[06:46] Africa in China’s Hierarchy of Relationships
[10:28] Sino-American Competition in the Global South
[13:20] Takeaways from the Recent FOCAC Summit
[18:27] Chinese Military Assistance in Africa
[24:27] FOCAC Engagement with Non-Governmental Entities
[27:52] African Perceptions of the Efficacy of FOCAC
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New Caledonia is a French territory comprising dozens of islands in the South Pacific. It possesses 25% of world’s nickel resources, a mineral critical in the development of weaponry. Several referenda on full independence from France have been held, but none have passed. In recent years, China has paid growing attention to the region, and New Caledonia is one of its targets of interest.
A new report from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), titled “When China knocks at the door of New Caledonia,” explains China’s interests, intentions, and activities in New Caledonia. It calls for greater attention to the territory and makes recommendations for the US and other regional actors to address the growing Chinese interference.
To discuss Beijing’s approach to New Caledonia, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by the report’s author, Anne-Marie Brady, Professor of Political Science at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand. She specializes in Chinese domestic politics and foreign policy, polar politics, China-Pacific politics, and New Zealand foreign policy.
Timestamps
[00:00] Start
[01:46] Introduction to New Caledonia
[04:20] China’s Interest and Involvement
[07:22] Expansion of the International United Front
[11:48] Manifestation Within New Caledonia
[16:22] The Belt and Road Initiative in New Caledonia
[21:34] Establishing Diplomatic Relations
[25:29] China’s Relationship with France
[28:29] Recommendations for Outside Powers and Others
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Most observers of China’s relations with the world maintain that China’s foreign policy started becoming more assertive beginning in the 2010s. The label “wolf warrior diplomacy” was coined by Western media to describe the aggressive language used by Chinese diplomats. The term “wolf warrior” comes from the title of the Chinese action film Wolf Warrior 2 and describes a more combative approach used by many Chinese diplomats, especially in social media and in interviews.
Explanations for China’s increased diplomatic assertiveness vary, ranging from rising military and economic might to the personal leadership style of General Secretary Xi Jinping. A recently published book titled “China’s Rising Foreign Ministry,” investigates the role of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in shaping and implementing Chinese foreign policy. In the words of a Southeast Asian diplomat who was interviewed by the book’s author, “China has a bigger international influence in the last five years—and it is the PRC foreign ministry that is pushing and driving it" (114).
Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by the book’s author Dylan Loh Ming Hui, Assistant Professor of Public Policy and Global Affairs at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore. His research focuses on Chinese foreign policy, Southeast Asian regionalism, and Asian conceptions of the international order.
Timestamps
[01:57] What questions was the book seeking to address?
[04:29] What do observers get wrong about China’s foreign ministry?
[08:22] China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Policy Formulation
[13:30] Characteristics of Chinese Diplomacy in Southeast Asia
[16:50] Relationship Between the Chinese MFA and PLA
[20:10] The Role of the International Liaison Department
[22:22] Interview Example from Dylan’s Publication
[25:04] Policy Implications and Lessons to be Learned
[28:43] Changes Since the Publication of the Book
[32:15] Predictions for the Future of the China MFA
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The waters, as well as the rocks, reefs and submerged shoals of the South China Sea are a major source of friction in East Asia. In recent months, tensions have flared between two of the claimants – China and the Philippines – over Second Thomas Shoal, a submerged feature in the Spratly Islands, which the Chinese call Ren Ai Jiao. In 1999, the Philippines intentionally grounded a Philippine Navy transport vessel called the Sierra Madre on the reef and since then the outpost has been manned by a small contingent of marines.
In 2016, an arbitral tribunal established under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea ruled that Second Thomas Shoal is a low-tide elevation located within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines and therefore sovereignty belongs to the Philippines. No other country can legitimately claim sovereignty over the feature or the waters around it. Beijing doesn’t recognize the ruling, even though it was legally binding on both China and the Philippines.
Late last year, Chinese Coast Guard and maritime militia vessels began aggressively interfering with the Philippines’ routine missions to deliver supplies to the Filipino forces on the Sierra Madre. On several occasions, Chinese ships have used high-pressure water cannons and rammed Filipino boats. The most serious confrontation took place in mid-June, when the Chinese used axes and knives to damage multiple Philippine vessels. A Filipino navy sailor lost his thumb in the skirmish. Negotiations between Beijing and Manila in early July produced a provisional arrangement, and the Philippines subsequently successfully conducted a resupply operation. It is uncertain whether the understanding will hold, however, since Beijing and Manila publicly disagree about what has been agreed upon.
To discuss the situation at Second Thomas Shoal and China’s approach to the South China Sea, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Zhang Feng, a visiting scholar at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center. His research focuses on Chinese foreign policy, international relations theory, and international relations in East Asia.
Timestamps
[00:00] Start
[02:31] Why is the South China Sea so important to China?
[05:30] Has China overstepped in the South China Sea?
[08:54] Reasons for Deepening Sino-Filipino Confrontation
[12:05] Beijing’s Reaction to a Reinforced Second Thomas Shoal
[13:30] Beijing’s Perception of the US-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty
[16:44] Miscalculating American Willingness to Intervene
[21:32] Beijing-Manila Provisional Agreement
[25:00] Chinese Deadline for the Philippines vis-à-vis the Second Thomas Shoal
[27:38] Gauging the Risk of Escalation or Conflict
[30:25] Stabilizing and Resolving the Second Thomas Shoal Issue
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Founded in 2001, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) is a Eurasian political, economic, and security forum led by Russia and China. And on July 4, 2024, the 24th summit of the SCO was convened in Astana, Kazakhstan. The summit resulted in the Astana Declaration that reaffirmed cooperation among the member states.
This year’s summit was particularly notable due to Belarus’s accession as the SCO’s first European member state and the tenth member of the SCO. The continuous enlargement of the SCO seems indicative of the organization’s shifting role, evolving from a regional cooperative forum to a broader, perhaps counter-western bloc.
This episode will focus on China’s strategy in the SCO, its intentions, and its objectives. Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Dr. Eva Seiwert, an analyst at the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS). Her research interests include China-Russia relations, China’s central Asian relations, and China’s behavior in international organizations.
Timestamps
[01:39] Shifting Focus of the SCO
[03:32] Enlargement of the SCO
[05:25] SCO and China’s Foreign Policy
[07:22] July 2024 SCO Summit
[09:46] Implementation of Agreements
[11:38] Sino-Russian Sideline Meeting
[13:09] Sino-Russian Competition or Coordination
[15:14] Sino-Belarussian Joint Military Drill
[16:56] SCO and the War in Ukraine
[19:04] Controversial Issues in the SCO
[20:26] Tensions Between China and India
[21:29] New SCO Member States
[23:07] SCO and Chinese Institution Building
[25:40] The impact of SCO: Why does it matter?
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Quantum computing uses quantum mechanics to perform fast and complex calculations. It is often defined as a disruptive technology and is among the advanced technologies at the forefront of US-China competition. Although the US has been in the lead in the development and applications of quantum technology, China is making rapid strides. Earlier this year, China’s independently developed quantum computer, Origin Wukong, named after the Monkey King (a famous character from Chinese mythology) made the country the third in the world to develop this state-of-the-art machine.
Quantum computing has many potential applications, including financial modeling, artificial intelligence, scientific research, as well as in defense areas, such as undersea warfare and military communications networks. A new report from the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), titled “The Quest for Qubits: Assessing U.S.-China Competition in Quantum Computing” explains the quantum strategies being pursued by the US and China. It makes recommendations for the US to strengthen its position in its competition with China in quantum computing.Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by the report’s author, Sam Howell, an adjunct associate fellow, with the Technology and National Security program at CNAS. Her research interests include quantum information science, semi-conductor STEM workforce issues, and the use of emerging technologies to enhance human performance.
Timestamps
[02:00] What is quantum computing?
[04:10] Quantum Computing in US-China Competition
[05:58] American and Chinese Strengths and Weaknesses
[09:36] Possibility of Working with Other Actors
[11:56] Status of US-China Scientific Collaboration
[14:30] Chinese Technological Self-Sufficiency
[17:58] Building a Quantum Technology Supply Chain
[22:05] Fostering a Quantum Technology Workforce
[25:52] Key Variables of US-China Competition
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On May 27th, China, Japan, and the Republic of Korea concluded their Ninth Trilateral Summit in Seoul. Leaders of the three countries resumed their highest-level annual meetings for the first time in over four years. At the conclusion of the meeting, they issued a joint declaration that includes six priority areas of cooperation, ranging from sustainable development to economic collaboration and trade.
What were Beijing’s interests and motivations in reviving this trilateral mechanism?
To discuss China’s participation in the trilateral summit, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Yun Sun, a Senior Fellow and Co-director of the East Asia program and Director of the China program at the Stimson Center in Washington.
Timestamps
[01:18] Reestablishing the Trilateral Leadership Mechanism
[06:14] Outcomes and Deliverables of the Trilateral Summit
[10:37] 2019 Chengdu Denuclearization Agreement
[13:38] China’s Import Ban on Japanese Seafood
[18:07] China on US-Japan-ROK Trilateral Cooperation
[23:58] Warming Russian-North Korean Relations
[29:30] Would Xi Jinping express his concerns with Vladimir Putin?
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On May 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin concluded a two-day visit to China for his 43rd meeting with Xi Jinping. Based on public readouts, Putin emphasized the economic benefits that the Sino-Russian partnership could bring to both countries. Economic integration between Russia and China has accelerated dramatically, with total trade between them reaching $240 billion US dollars in 2023. Beijing’s decision to increase trade with Moscow after the February 2022 invasion of Ukraine has kept the Russian economy afloat.
Western sanctions have failed to cripple Russia’s economy or its war effort. After the European Union halted the import of Russian oil, China stepped in and has since become Russia’s top energy buyer. Moreover, China has become Russia’s top goods supplier, having surged its sales of machine tools, microelectronics, and other technology that Moscow uses to produce weaponry in its ongoing war with Ukraine.
To discuss China’s trade with Russia, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Yanmei Xie. Yanmei is a Geopolitics Analyst at Gavekal Research, where she analyzes the implications of rising geopolitical and geoeconomic risks on trade, investments, and supply chains. Yanmei recently published a report on China’s economic support for Russia, which was titled “How China Keeps Russia in Business.”
Timestamps
[02:00] China’s Economic Support of Russia
[05:29] Areas of Success for Western Sanctions
[07:11] A Surge in Chinese Exports After the Invasion of Ukraine
[09:54] Chinese Playbook for Circumventing Sanctions
[13:36] Chinese Provision of Crucial Materials
[15:17] Incentive to Capture the Russian Energy Market
[19:17] Impact of Western Industrial Policies on Sino-Russian Trade
[20:20] Possibility of Increased Sanctions to Deter China
[23:24] China’s Toolbox of Retaliatory Measures
[26:48] Plateauing Economic Support for Russia
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China’s rate of economic growth has slowed markedly in recent years. According to Chinese government statistics, the economy grew by 5.2% in 2023. There are numerous challenges: weak consumer confidence, mounting local government debt, and a real estate market that used to fuel the economy, but is now in a prolonged downturn.
Many economists, including some in China, advocate that the government stimulate consumer spending. It is clear, however, that Xi Jinping is pursuing a different strategy. And this was quite clear when Chinese Premier Li Qiang delivered the Government Work Report last March.
Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Tanner Greer, who argued in a recent article published in Foreign Policy and in his blog, The Scholar’s Stage, that Xi Jinping and the Politburo believe that science and technology are the answer to China’s problems. To quote from the article: “the central task of the Chinese state is to build an industrial and scientific system capable of pushing humanity to new technological frontiers.” Tanner is the director of the Center for Strategic Translation. As a journalist and researcher, his writing focuses on world politics and history.
Timestamps
[01:43] Historical Narrative Informing China’s Belief in Techno-Industrial Policy
[03:47] How does China’s own history fit into this narrative?
[06:36] Evidence that Xi Jinping Believes in a Technological Revolution
[09:37] How does China assess the global balance of power?
[12:26] Three Premises Behind China’s Techno-Industrial Drive
[14:08] Influence of Intensifying US-China Technology Competition
[17:12] Acceleration of New Quality Productive Forces
[19:32] Skepticism of China’s Strategy
[26:43] Chinese Intellectuals Writing on Techno-Industrial Policy
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In the past few weeks, China’s relations with Latin America and the Caribbean have been making headlines. Newsweek published an exclusive story about plans to create a Chinese-run special economic zone on the island of Antigua that will have a port, a dedicated airline, its own customs and immigration procedures, and be able to issue passports. An international crypto services zone will offer opportunities to participate in cryptocurrency operations from mining to dealing.
The Americas Quarterly reported that China has expressed interest in building a port complex near the Strait of Magellan at the southern tip of South America, which is considered the most important natural passage between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. From there, according to the Americas Quarterly, Beijing could grow its presence in the region and also project influence in Antarctica.
And in late April, China held the first China-Latin American and Caribbean States Space Cooperation Forum, which opened with a congratulatory letter from Xi Jinping applauding the high-level space cooperation partnership in which he emphasized the benefits of marrying China’s mature space technology with the unique geographic advantage of the countries in the Latin America and Caribbean region.
To discuss Chinese interests in and strategy toward the Latin America and Caribbean region–known as the LAC–host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Leland Lazarus. He is the Associate Director of National Security at Florida International University’s Jack D. Gordon Institute of Public Policy and an expert on China-Latin America relations. He formerly served as the Special Assistant and Speechwriter to the Commander of US Southern Command and as a State Department Foreign Service Officer, with postings in Barbados and China.
Editorial Correction: Regarding the statement on the price of Huawei's equipment, it is approximately 30% cheaper than Nokia or Ericcson, rather than one-third the price.
Timestamps
[02:30] China’s Interest in LAC Countries
[04:44] Implementation of BRI in LAC Countries
[07:23] China’s Investment in Energy Development
[09:39] Huawei’s Penetration into LAC Countries
[11:57] Role of Perú in Beijing’s Regional Strategy
[14:56] China-LAC Cooperation in Space
[20:56] Receptivity of China to LAC Countries
[25:30] How should the US compete against China in LAC?
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The Biden administration maintains that China is the only country with both the intent to reshape the international order and the power to do so. One part of China’s economic statecraft toolkit involves state-directed investments through high profile projects in the Belt and Road Initiative which are funded by loans through Chinese development banks. But the role and impact of Chinese companies that provide equity funding for FDI often receive less attention. Does Chinese foreign direct investment (FDI) have illiberal effects on recipient countries. And is this goal part of China’s economic statecraft and foreign policy strategy.
To address these questions and more, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Dr. Jan Knoerich. He is the author on a chapter of Chinese FDI on the recent Oxford publication “Rising Power, Limited Influence”, a collection of essays on the effects of Chinese investment in Europe. Dr. Knoerich is a senior lecturer on the Chinese economy for the Lau China Institute at King’s College in London. He is an expert on the Chinese economy, FDI, and international investment law and policy.
Timestamps
[01:38] Evolution of Chinese Foreign Investment Strategies
[04:48] Chinese Firms Undertaking Foreign Direct Investment
[09:16] Impacts of Chinese FDI: Five Dimensions
[18:17] Reasons Why Chinese Firms are Viewed with Suspicion
[21:06] Impacts of Chinese FDI Projects in Europe
[24:59] Evidence of Chinese FDI Exerting Political Influence
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When Hong Kong was handed over to China by the United Kingdom 1997, the city was given a mini-Constitution called the “Basic Law.” Article 23 of the Basic Law states that Hong Kong shall enact laws of its own to prohibit various national security offenses. The law did not pass, however, and was scrapped after mass protests in 2003. And in 2020, the Central Government of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) imposed a separate national security law on Hong Kong, citing the city’s delay in acting on Article 23.
This year on March 19th, Article 23 was passed unanimously by the city’s parliament and it came into effect just days later. The law covers five types of crime: treason, insurrection and incitement to mutiny, theft of state secrets, and espionage, sabotage, and external interference. Critics say that Article 23 could lead to even further erosions of civil liberties in Hong Kong.
To discuss Article 23 and its implications, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Dr. Eric Yan-ho Lai. Dr. Lai is a Research Fellow at the Georgetown Center for Asian Law, an Associate Fellow at the Hong Kong Studies Hub of the University of Surrey, and a member of the Asian Civil Society Research Network.
Timestamps
[01:47] Understanding PRC Definitions Used in Article 23
[03:37] Why was Article 23 passed now?
[05:23] Compressed Timeline for Unanimous Approval
[09:05] Shift in Risk Assessment for Multinational Corporations
[12:03] Precedents for Targeting Diaspora Communities
[14:17] Reactions to Article 23 from the International Community
[15:54] What are some concrete actions that could be taken to signal concern?
[17:55] Do the PRC and Hong Kong care about international perceptions?
[19:36] Implementation of Article 23 Moving Forward
[21:28] Passage of Additional Security Legislature
[22:57] Forecast for the Future of Hong Kong
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In the past decade, policy toward China has hardened on both sides of the Atlantic. Governments and publics across Europe and in the United States view Xi Jinping as implementing more repressive policies domestically and more aggressive policies abroad. The US and most capitals in Europe see Beijing as seeking to revise the international order in ways that would be disadvantageous to democracies. They agree on the need for de-risking and to preserve the status quo in the Taiwan Strait.
Yet, despite the alignment in transatlantic assessments, cooperation on China remains limited. A new paper by experts from Chatham House and RUSI, leading think tanks in the United Kingdom, analyzes why transatlantic mechanisms have made slow progress, focusing on three domains: economics; security; and the multilateral system and global norms. The paper also offers ways to strengthen cooperation going forward.
The title of the report is “Transatlantic China Policy: In Search of an Endgame?” Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by one of its authors, Ben Bland who is the director of the Asia-Pacific program at Chatham House. His research focuses on the nexus of politics, economics, and international relations in Southeast Asia, as well as China’s growing role in the broader region and the contours of US–China strategic competition.
Timestamps
[01:46] Why did you pursue this research on transatlantic mechanism?
[03:24] Importance of Agreeing on an Endgame
[06:30] Consensus and Divergence between the US and Europe
[10:10] De-risking: One Word, Many Meanings
[15:00] Transatlantic Discussions on European and Indo-Pacific Security
[18:40] Can a regional division of labor strategy work?
[22:13] China, the Multilateral System, and Global Norms
[27:00] Tensions Between EU Multilateralism and Transatlantic Consensus
[31:10] What are the next steps for Chatham House?
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On a previous episode of the China Global Podcast, we discussed Beijing’s position on the conflict in Gaza during the early days following Hamas’ attacks on Israel on October 7, 2023. Today, we discuss one of the conflict’s spillover effects– the attacks on cargo and trade ships transiting the Red Sea by the Houthis, an Iranian-backed Shia group governing parts of Yemen. While the Chinese-brokered rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran was as the beginning of a “wave of reconciliation” in the region by China’s foreign minister Wang Yi, the resurgence of violence since October 7th has proven that prediction to be overly optimistic.
At face value, disruptions of global trade may seem to run counter to Chinese interests, but Beijing’s hesitance to become more deeply involved in the crisis may tell us something about China’s calculations in this crisis. It may also show the limits of Chinese influence in the region.
Host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Ahmed Aboudouh. Ahmed is an associate fellow with the Middle East and North Africa Program at Chatham House, a nonresident fellow with the Atlantic Council, and heads the China Studies research unit at the Emirates Policy Center. His research focuses on China’s rising influence in the Middle East and North Africa region, Gulf geopolitics, and the effects of China-US competition worldwide.
Timestamps
[01:36] China’s Statement on Palestine at the International Court of Justice
[08:20] Why is China indirectly supporting Hamas despite its relations with Israel?
[12:11] Effectiveness of China’s Narrative Critical of America and the West
[16:54] Israel, Palestine, and China’s Diplomatic Calculus
[20:12] China’s Hesitance to Counter the Houthis in the Red Sea
[25:15] Does China have leverage over Iran, and if so, will they use it?
[29:59] Circumstances for Deeper Chinese Involvement
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On February 1st 2021, the Tatmadaw, or Myanmar military began a coup d’etat against the democratically-elected government, which was led by the National League for Democracy (or NLD) just before elected officials from the November 2020 elections could be sworn in. Since then, Myanmar has been largely controlled by a military junta, who continue to struggle against multiple ethnically-aligned armies dispersed throughout the country. Some countries in the region have refused to recognize the junta, but the People’s Republic of China called the coup simply a “major cabinet reshuffle” and accelerated their military trade with the junta while decrying Western sanctions on the country as escalatory measures, even going so far as to veto a security council resolution condemning the coup alongside Russia.
China’s approach to relations with Myanmar since the coup have been evolving swiftly, especially since the recent Operation 1027, a large offensive staged by the ethnic armed forces coalition known as the Three Brotherhood Alliance on October 27th 2023. The losses by the junta during the operation revealed their control of the country to be more tenuous than Beijing might have expected and exemplify the complex factors going into China’s decision-making approach to the conflict.
For this episode, host Bonnie Glaser is joined by Jason Tower, the country director for the Burma program at the United States Institute for Peace. Tower has over 20 years of experience working in conflict and security issues in China and Southeast Asia, including analysis on cross-border investments, conflict dynamics, and organized crime in the region. He worked previously in Beijing and is a former Fulbright research student and Harvard-Yenching fellow.
Timestamps
[02:07] China’s Interest in the Myanmar Conflict
[05:48] China’s Engagement with Parties in Myanmar
[12:48] Impact of China’s Brokered Ceasefires
[20:30] Credibility of China in Southeast Asia
[25:15] Myanmar in the US-China Relationship
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Many books about US-China strategic competition have been published in recent years. This episode will focus on Facing China: The Prospect for War and Peace, which examines various flashpoints in the Indo-Pacific that could result in military conflict.
There are several reasons why this book stands out: First, it includes an examination of debates within China about China’s national interests; Second, it focuses not only on the challenges of major wars, but also on China’s gray-zone strategy of deliberately pursuing its interests in ways that stay below the threshold that would trigger a US military response. And finally, it assesses the applicability of the Thucydides Trap to the US-China relationship. The Thucydides Trap concept was coined by Graham Allison who examined historical cases in which a rising power threatened to displace a ruling power in his book Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides’s Trap? Allison concluded that in the majority of historical cases the outcome was war.
This book is especially interesting because it is written by a European expert who has deep knowledge of Taiwan, mainland China, and the United States: Jean-Pierre Cabestan. He is an emeritus senior researcher at the French Center for Scientific Research in Paris and an emeritus professor political science at the Department of Government and International Studies at Hone Kong Baptist University, and a visiting senior fellow at GMF.
Timestamps
[02:07] Revisiting the Thucydides Trap
[03:53] Why was China fascinated by this concept?
[05:26] Reasons for the Risk of War Increasing
[06:33] The US-China Cold War and its Characteristics
[09:03] China’s Gray-Zone Activities
[10:53] Where has China’s gray-zone strategy been the most successful?
[12:37] Unifying Taiwan with China through Gray-Zone Activities
[14:42] Chinese Use of Force in the Taiwan Strait in the 2020s
[16:17] China’s Ambitions in the International Arena
[17:40] Future Overseas Operations of the PLA
- Montre plus
