Episodes
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Jake Newby, author of the China music substack Concrete Avalanche, presents his official playlist of China’s best new music. It includes ADHD-inspired hip hop, experimental ambient music from rural China, and Shanghai cold wave, finishing off with a “mind-blowing” hyperpop track.
Tracklist:
00:00 ‘Rhyme’ – Rubey Hu
01:02 ‘The Last of the Mohicans’ – SMZB 生命之饼
04:46 ‘秋茄子之味’ – 红发少年杀人事件
09:04 ‘The Wanderer of Renfengli 仁丰里的闲逛者‘ – DaYe 大叶
12:08 ‘back to the pond 1’ – Jian Cui
15:57 ‘Chapter II’ (excerpt) – Chen Mulian et al for xuán yīn
21:13 ‘月光爱人 De Luna Amour’ – 黑木 Heimu
27:27 ‘Ⱪorⱪetteng ⱪobeze / The Kobyz of Korkut 霍尔赫特的库布孜‘ (excerpt) – Mamer 马木尔
35:38 ‘སྒྲོལ་མའི་བསྟོད་པ་། Praise to Tara 度母赞’ – Kalzang Samdrub
37:08 ‘我不知不觉不伦不类’ – 小老虎 J-Fever
39:56 ‘1911 4th Mov. (live) 一九一一 第四回’ (excerpt) – Zhaoze 沼泽
46:55 ‘本该走神的(Should've Been Lost)‘ – 张醒婵 Nono
49:28 ‘失乐园’ – DJ小女孩 DJ Gurl
Some of these tracks are available on YouTube! We've aggregated those links on the ChinaTalk Substack.
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How does Russia prevent uprisings, and what can other authoritarians learn from Moscow’s methods of coup control?
For the second anniversary of the Wagner uprising, ChinaTalk interviewed London-based historian Kamil Galeev, who was also a classmate of Jordan’s at Peking University.
We discuss…
Why the Wagner Group rebelled in 2023, and why the coup attempt ultimately failed,
How Wagner shifted the Kremlin’s assessment of internal political challengers,
Similarities between post-Soviet doomerism and the American right,
Historical examples of foreign policy inflienced by a victimhood mentality,
Barriers to Chinese hegemony.
Outro Music: Султан Лагучев - Любовь беда (YouTube Link)
Today’s episode is brought to you by 80,000 Hours, a nonprofit that helps people find fulfilling careers that do good. 80,000 Hours — named for the average length of a career — has been doing in-depth research on AI issues for over a decade, producing reports on existential risk, scenarios for potential AI catastrophe, and examining the concrete steps you can take to help ensure AI development goes well.
Their research suggests that working to reduce risks from advanced AI could be one of the most impactful ways to make a positive difference in the world.
They provide free resources to help you contribute, including:
Detailed career reviews for paths like AI safety technical research, AI governance, information security, and AI hardware,
A job board with hundreds of high-impact opportunities,
A podcast featuring deep conversations with experts like Carl Shulman, Ajeya Cotra, and Tom Davidson,
Free, one-on-one career advising to help you find your best fit.
To learn more and access their research-backed career guides, visit 80000hours.org/ChinaTalk.
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Episodes manquant?
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Is America cooked? We check in on what clarity the past three months have given us on the long term dynamic between the US and China.
Guests include:
Peter Harrell, former Biden official who hosts the Security Economics podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/security-economics/id1794022711)
Matt Klein of the https://theovershoot.co/ substack
Kevin Xu of the https://interconnect.substack.com/ subsctack
Outtro music: Emitt Rhodes, Textile Factory, 1970 https://open.spotify.com/track/1JO2jo0Cyg75mmCFlSW2bB?si=1706c809e80b4bd4
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Also, somehow, the Third Temple, twink human sacrifice for the AI labs, and the SemiAnalysis Desi Waifu 3000.
Outtro Music (sounded like a let's get dylan a girlfriend prayer to me?) Finding Her, Kushagra, Bharath, Saaheal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZtSnQBsBW0
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Patrick McGee is the author of Apple in China: The Capture of the World’s Greatest Company. Our discussion led us through a detailed history of Apple’s relationship with China, where iPhone manufacturing became a project of nation-building.
Cohosting today is Kyle Chan of the High Capacity Substack.
Today, our conversation covers:
Why Apple moved production to China in the 1990s, and why it struggles to leave,
How Apple’s obsession with perfection catalyzed China’s industrial upgrading,
The political side of production in China, including how Apple’s relationship with the Chinese authorities has evolved over time,
The rise of Foxconn and other partners in Apple’s network,
Fun anecdotes about Apple’s management style, including the “Divorce Avoidance Program.”
Read ChinaTalk's article China's AR glasses market here.
Outro music: Apple Blossom — The White Stripes (YouTube Link)
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Eva Dou is the author of The House of Huawei, an excellent book covering the personal, economic, and geopolitical arc of Huawei, China’s most important company.
We discuss…
The life of Huawei’s founder, Ren Zhengfei, who rose from Cultural Revolution disgrace to become one of China’s richest businessmen,
How Ren built Huawei, and what makes their corporate culture unique,
Huawei’s strategic entry into developing and high-risk markets like Libya, Iraq, and Iran, and whether the controversial deal with the UK is a threat to national security,
How Huawei outcompeted Chinese state-owned telecom companies and eventually achieved national champion status,
How Ren’s personal interest in foreign art, music, and architecture advances Huawei’s market share.
Co-hosting today is Kyle Chan, a postdoc at Princeton and author of the High Capacity Substack.
Outro music: Back Fire - Annabel Yao (YouTube Link)
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Renaissance Philanthropy — in my opinion, the most exciting S&T philanthropic venture in the US — is getting a one-year check-in. Kumar Garg first appeared on the show right before I went on paternity leave, and now we’re back for round two. Before founding Renaissance Philanthropy, Kumar worked in the Obama Office of Science and Technology Policy and spent time at Schmidt Futures.
We discuss…
How Renaissance catalyzed over $200 million in philanthropic funding in its first year,
The goals of the organization and how it has responded to Trump’s S&T funding cuts,
What sets Renaissance apart from traditional philanthropic organizations, and lessons for China-focused research foundations,
AI applications in education, from tutoring to dyslexia screening,
Donor psychology, “portfolio regret,” and how to build trust within a philanthropic network.
Thanks to ElevenLabs for sponsoring this episode. Check out the ElevenReader text-to-speech app here.
Outro music: Mercy, Mercy, Mercy - Cannonball Adderley (YouTube Link)
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Josh Wolfe of Lux Capital joins ChinaTalk to talk:
Elon, Trump and the tech right
The future of the R&D base and importance of immigrants
Why short videos aren't terrible after all?
Philanthropy and books
Read the social history of the machine gun!
Outtro Music: Youba by The Sway Machinery and Khaira Arby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYNUm4UfoAs
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Two weeks in a row what has gotten into us.
Jordan tries to save the NSF and immigrant visas with an AI researcher letter
Our quarterly AI mandate of heaven update (there's been alot of movement!)
Dylan makes bad slop jokes
The Ezra Klein/Dylan Patel beef begins
We recommend the amazing book Mitsui: Three Centuries of Japanese Business
Outtro music: באמפרים” (pronounced Bam-pe-rim, roughly “Bumpers”) by the Israeli hip-hop duo Ness & Stilla, 2024 https://open.spotify.com/track/3FihyZ7YA7vrNiSUfWww10?si=9817a9122faf4b08
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Dylan bonds with Nvidia's CFO and I try to keep the GPUs in actual democracies.
Outtro Music: FaceTime, Karencici, 2018. https://open.spotify.com/track/2PNDZp0ultOJrQL4AVENPO?si=46cdf72cdffb40a3
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What can Mao Zedong teach us about Donald Trump?
To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed the legendary sinologist Orville Schell, who visited China during the Cultural Revolution and is currently at the Asia Society.
We discuss…
Mao Zedong’s psychology and political style,
Similarities and differences between Mao and Trump,
How Mao-era traumas reverberate in modern China, including how the Cultural Revolution has influenced the Xi family,
How Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping survived the Cultural Revolution, and which of their tactics could be useful in modern America,
What civil society can do to defend democracy over the next four years.
Co-hosting is Alexander Boyd, associate editor at China Books Review and former ChinaTalk intern.
Read Orville's article, "Trump's Cultural Revolution," here.
Read the Asia Society piece on religion and political power here.
Orville's crazy Asia Society event, From Pontius Pilate to Chairman Mao: Religion and Politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opw9vqpPBqQ&ab_channel=AsiaSociety
Book recommendations:
Joseph Torigian - The Party's Interests Come First: The Life of Xi Zhongxun, Father of Xi Jinping
Perry Link - The Anaconda in the Chandelier - excerpt from ChinaFile
William Shirer - The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
Victor Klemperer - I Will Bear Witness: A Diary of the Nazi Years, 1933-1941
Outro music:
Bach's Partita No. 1 for Solo Violin in B Minor, BWV 1002: VIII. Double, Gidon Kremer
https://open.spotify.com/track/3x1Rdpgy6QGSlW9tItHYdm?si=20fa2051dc5d4f91
Aria from J.S. Bach Cantata 'Schwingt freudig euch empor'
https://open.spotify.com/track/5pIy4Gll1YywqKX25EbbOb?si=520327db35f54201
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Just how weird will the AI-powered future be?
To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Nathan Lambert, who writes the Interconnects newsletter and researches AI at the Allen Institute.
We get into…
Why OpenAI is trending toward engagement farming and sycophancy,
The state of Chinese AI innovation six months post-DeepSeek, and the factors influencing diffusion of Chinese vs American models,
Meta’s organizational culture and how it influences the quality of the Llama models,
Unconventional career advice for the AI age.
Nathan’s book recommendation: Careless People: A Cautionary Tale of Power, Greed, and Lost Idealism by Sarah Wynn-Williams
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What does the future of industrial policy in America look like, and what state capacity investments are needed to get there? How does China factor into the future of the U.S. semiconductor industry? And what do government affairs offices at large technology firms actually do? To explore these questions, we’re concluding our CSIS Chip Chat series with Bruce Andrews. Bruce has had a long career on Capitol Hill, led government affairs for Ford, served as Deputy Secretary of Commerce under President Obama, and most recently headed government affairs at Intel. He’s now a fellow at CSIS.
We discuss…
The decline of bipartisanship and how to bring expertise back to Capitol Hill,
The case for a new “Department of Competitiveness”
Industry’s role in policymaking and what it took to get semiconductor manufacturers on board with the CHIPS Act,
Why Silicon Valley suddenly became interested in politics,
How to optimize industrial policy in a stick-focused political environment.
Outro music: Moon River, Frank Ocean 2018 (YouTube Link)
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Does anybody really understand China? Could America pursue an abundance agenda without the threat of the PRC? Can podcasters change the world?
To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, who need no introduction, as well as Dan Wang, who has written beautiful annual letters and is back in the US as a research fellow at Kotkin’s Hoover History Lab. He has an excellent book called Breakneck coming out this August, but we’re saving that show for a little later this year.
Today, our conversation covers…
The use of China as a rhetorical device in US domestic discourse,
Oversimplified aspects of Chinese development, and why the bipartisan consensus surrounding Beijing might fail to produce a coherent strategy,
The abundance agenda and technocratic vs prophetic strategies for policy change,
How to conceptualize political actors complexly, including unions, corporations, and environmental groups,
The value of podcasting and strategies for positively impacting the modern media environment.
Outtro Music: Recomposed by Max Richter, I went with a deep cut Autumn 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUEeqvp_BrQ
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Can China use military force to achieve its political goals, without triggering nuclear war? To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed Fiona Cunningham, a professor of Political Science at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the new book, Under the Nuclear Shadow: China’s Information-Age Weapons in International Security.
Co-hosting today is Michael Horowitz, another Penn professor who served in Biden’s Department of Defense.
We discuss…
How to use open source PLA documents to conduct deep research,
The evolution of Chinese defense strategy, including the impact of the third Taiwan Strait crisis,
Nuclear modernization and China’s “no first use” policy,
How the PLA makes decisions, including why they chose to develop cyber capabilities, anti-satellite weapons, and hypersonic missiles over proposed alternatives.
Outtro Music: Beauty by Gui Bian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTlfSOCwYJ8
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What has happened in the past 100 days to America’s science and technology ecosystem? What are China's ambitions and how is the government trying to take advantage of American uncertainty? And what can we learn from China's war mobilization exercises?
To explore these questions, we're joined by Divyansh Kaushik and Alex Rubin, who both work at Beacon Global Strategies. Divyansh holds an AI PhD from Carnegie Mellon, and Alex spent the past decade at the CIA focusing on China and emerging technologies.
We discuss…
The Historical origins of the US R&D model, and the division of labor between universities, government, and industry,
How budget cuts will impact the NSF, NIH, NIST, and DoD basic research,
Why and how China attempts to emulate US research institutions,
What a leaked wargame exercise from Guangdong province can tell us about China’s grand strategy,
How institutions like ChinaTalk can complement the IC with fresh, independent research.
Outro music: The Elements - Tom Lehrer (YouTube Link)
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What is Trump doing to extended deterrence?
I got Polymarket to create a market on whether a US ally will acquire nuclear weapons in 2025. It’s currently trading at 8%. Are we buyers or sellers?
To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Vipin Narang, professor at MIT, who served as Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense responsible for nuclear deterrence policy during the Biden administration; Pranay Vaddi, a senior fellow at the Center for Nuclear Security Policy at MIT who worked on arms control and non-proliferation on Biden’s National Security Council; and Junichi Fukuda, senior research fellow at Tokyo’s Sasakawa Peace Foundation.
We get into…
The historical development of the American nuclear umbrella, including the “software” and “hardware” components of deterrence,
The probability that an American ally will proliferate by 2030, and which countries are the most likely candidates,
Why France proliferated despite US objections,
How the world might respond to nuclear ambitions from Poland, Japan, or Saudi Arabia,
China’s nuclear modernization and deterrence strategies for a multi-polar world.
Here's the RAND paper cited: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GUMnuxWoapmEYCw3g3NMUHxzZ6hVwWPi/view?usp=sharing
Outro music: Tom Lehrer - Who's Next? (YouTube Link)
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Rush Doshi (CFR, Biden NSC, author of the excellent The Long Game) and I run through the US-China tale of the tape. The future of America's relationship with its allies may be the key hinge variable for whether this century turns out to be China's to define. Do give this one a listen. Especially if you're JD Vance!
See Rush's Foreign Affairs article with Kurt Campbell here: https://archive.is/ZSTKP
Some Japanese outtro music to give the allies some love:
Karenai by Bonbero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFJcIOMsOaU&ab_channel=Bonbero
What's Popping by JP THE WAVY and friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1LOXU_hBNo&ab_channel=JPTHEWAVY
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Bill Reinsch of CSIS and the Trade Guys podcast with Jay Goldberg of Digits and Dollars and the Circuit podcast join to dicuss Trump's tariff impact on semis on another CSIS-ChinaTalk Chip Chat!
Bill lays out the four clashing instincts driving policy in MAGA 2.0: revenge for decades of perceived slights, a bargaining bluff to coerce concessions, a fast‑cash revenue grab, and a fantasy of instant on‑shore fab construction.
Jay walks through the on‑the‑ground fallout: chip designers worrying about losing China sales, GPU‑specific duties warping supply chains, and a loophole that lets boards assembled in Mexico skate by.
We explore how blanket tariffs could accelerate China’s ascent in analog and trailing‑edge chips, undermine Biden‑era “ally‑first” export‑control diplomacy, and leave Commerce’s BIS badly under‑resourced to enforce the rules.
We also get into whether allies will sign up for Washington’s crusade after being slapped themselves, and whether Nvidia, Intel, and Tesla are “too important to punish.”
Outtro Music: Well Get It, Tommy Dorsey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgiHzCiB5Aw
Bible‑Verse Sign‑off “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed.” — Proverbs 15:22
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Dylan Patel is a man on a mission. We get into how:
Huawei is giving NVIDIA a run for their money
What USG needs to do about it
What smart semiconductor tariff policy would look like
o3
Outtro Music, a little texas country for you all:
Ernest Tubb, Walking the Floor Over You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQIRRReZIls
Hank Thompson, Wild Side of Life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPvARPfquPc
And a completely wild post-WWII song I did not feel comfortable putting on the feed but worth a listen for the wtf factor: Ernest Tubb, Filipino Baby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WXnoCyKGw8&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD
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