Episodes
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Join Liz, Caz, Lindy and cult expert Dr Janja Lalich, as they talk about the highlights of the inaugural NZ Decult 2024 conference, and how this remarkable event has contributed to a critical conversation. In this episode Liz says, “The problem is more pervasive than your average kiwi recognises.” Too right, Liz! Let's keep the conversation going!
Notes
Website - Get access to Decult audio and video
Video - Interview with Ulricke Schiesser for Decult
Article - Andre Afamasaga in Samoan Observer
Website - Scott Homan and Witness Underground
Video - Interview with Dr Gillie Jenkinson for Cult Chat
Video - Interview with Dr Janja Lalich for Cult Chat
Article - Shincheonji - The Press
Article - Misa - Tantric yoga guru Gregorian Bivolaru charged with human trafficking
Podcast - Cults and healthcare neglect - Dr Caroline Ansley - Let’s Talk About Sects
Article - Laura McConnell-Conti and the Two by Twos
Podcast - Poia Alpha & the Branch Davidians - Let's Talk About Sects
Article - Rachel Lees, Bill Gothard & IBLP
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*Trigger warning for this episode’s content*. This episode we continue the second part of Caz’s interview with Mary Garden, talking about how her swami revealed himself to not be the benign, peaceful, celebate yogi that he appeared, but instead a violent, tantrum-throwing psychopath with sexually predatory intent. Mary talks about trauma, waking up, and the gift of writing her story, returning to herself and learning that she did not need a guru in the end afterall.
Show notes
Book - A Serpent Rises by Mary Garden
Book - My Father’s Suitcase by Mary Garden
Interview: Life with Sexy Sadie - The Newsroom
Website - Mary’s personal website
Website - Elisabeth Kubler-Ross Foundation
Trailer - The Push - on Netflix
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Episodes manquant?
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Mary Garden was a seeker in her 20s, finding her way to India to three different gurus - Sai Baba, Swami Balyogi Premvarni, and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Mary tells her story, unpacking the historical context that left her longing for more, and the personal context which primed her for recruitment. Our hosts then chat about recruitment, the suppression of intellect and critical thinking required by gurus, and malignant teachers who gain enormously from the submission and supplication of seekers.
Show notes
Book - A Serpent Rises by Mary Garden
Book - Sundowner of the Skies by Mary Garden
Book - My Father’s Suitcase by Mary Garden
Book: Sue Kedgely - 50 years a Feminist
Interview: Life with Sexy Sadie - The Newsroom
Website - Mary’s personal website
Youtube - SBS documentary “The Secret Swami” -
Cults exposed in New Zealand. The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Faith-Based & State-Based Care investigated what happened to children, young people and adults in NZ in these care settings during 1950 to 1999. The final report - Whanaketia - was released on 25 June. The extent of the findings are beyond imaginable. Lindy, Liz and Caz all have personal reasons to care about the findings of this report. In this discussion they talk about Whanaketia and how the findings relate to cults in New Zealand operating now.
Show Notes:
Royal Inquiry Report: https://www.abuseincare.org.nz/reports/whanaketia Royal Inquiry Faith-Based Institutions: https://www.abuseincare.org.nz/reports/whanaketia/summaries/survivors-experiences-of-abuse-and-neglect-in-faith-based-care/ Royal Inquiry Executive Summary: https://www.abuseincare.org.nz/reports/whanaketia/preliminaries/executive-summary/ Listener Article: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-listener/health/cults-often-neglect-vital-health-needs-how-an-nz-gp-wants-to-change-that/ILZYV466QFBA3HZ3R7BTM5ZMGM/ Let's Talk About Sects podcast: https://www.ltaspod.com/caroline-ansley -
Dr Janja Lalich, leading cult researcher and sociologist, author of several books about cults including “Take Back Your Life”, talks with Liz and shares her Bounded Choice Framework. They talk about moral injury and accountability, the way cults arrest the development of children, and the importance of support and psychological care after leaving a cult. This chat comes in the lead up to Dr Lalich’s October visit to New Zealand for multiple speaking engagements, including the Decult Conference, Parliamentary evening, University lecture and a visit to Timaru to engage with Gloriavale Leavers and supporters.
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If you’ve been wondering if your book club is actually a cult, then this episode is for you! Settle in as our hosts chat about the green flags for healthy groups - borrowing extensively from the work of Dr Janja Lalich, in her book “Escaping Utopia”. The girls try very hard to focus on the flourishing, nourishing and encouraging qualities present in a healthy group and how they are different from harmful groups, but of course, they definitely talk about cults! They can’t help themselves!
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Lindy chats with Dr Gillie Jenkinson, UK psychotherapist, trainer of therapists, and author of “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Growth.” Gillie talks about her personal history in a cult, her realization that the only way to get some decent resources for the cult recovery journey was to develop them herself, and the excitement she is feeling as she plans the last details for her trip to New Zealand in October 2024 . She will be speaking at Decult and running workshops for therapists. We can’t wait to see her!
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Liz & Caz learnt so much at the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Barcelona that they had to do another episode on it! Listen in as they tell Lindy all about the fascinating anti-cult activists and educators they met and the breaking research they learnt about. In this episode they chat about the process of waking up for cultists, the impacts on the second generation, and a dive into the very damaging impacts of mandated shunning - which so many cults enforce.
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What were Liz & Caz doing in Barcelona this month? Apart from chowing down on tapas and sipping on their drink of choice, the girls hob-knobbed with leading international authorities on cults & coercive control at the International Cultic Studies Association annual conference. In this episode Liz and Caz download all their new learnings to Lindy who sadly had to stay at home. Join us to hear them chat about up to date international research in the cultiverse and how their own presentations went.
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Do therapists have the skills needed to support the recovery of cult leavers? Yes! Do they understand the significance of the cult context? Hmmm, maybe not. In this episode, Lindy and Liz discuss the workshop they recently lead where they taught a room of mental health workers all about cult recovery. Listen in as they tell Caz all about it, share some tips for therapists working with cult-leavers, and explain why therapists should consider upskilling in cult recovery.
Show Notes:
Book: Cracking the Cult Code for Therapists by Bonnie Zieman
Book: Escaping Utopia by Janja Lalich and Karla McLaren
Education: Gillie Jenkinson training for therapists - Mental Health Professionals and Therapists Workshop October 21-22 2024
Education: Decult Conference October 19-20 2024
Service: Mind Health - mental health provider based in Christchurch
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We’re back again to finish our conversation with Sarah Mettrick, former Sri Chinmoy disciple, who was recruited into the Sri Chinmoy Centre as a fourteen year old. Sarah tells us about her emotional stunting as a teenage cultist, and how after she got out, she found herself trying to figure out who she was in her early 30s. This second episode gives massive insight into the developmental disruption that occurs when teenagers get recruited into a cult. You won’t want to miss this episode!
Show notes
Book - “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steve Hassan
Book - “Hearken O Daughter” by Grace J Adams and Poia Alpha
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Sarah Mettrick spent 13 years in the Sri Chinmoy Centre in Christchurch. In this first of two episodes Sarah talks to Caz about her years in the group. The two talk about life as a teenage recruit in this eastern mysticism group, the conflation of the guru with the divine and the control of member’s sexuality. Sarah reflects back now years later on what she was part of and how much she gave of herself, the aspects she loved, and the aspects she was ultimately forced to escape.
Show Notes
Article - Out on their Own by Anke Richter
Book - 1984 by George Orwell
Book - Animal Farm by George Orwell
Book - Mao’s Last dancer by Li Cunxin
Book - Wild Swans by Jung Chang
Book - The Guru Papers by Joel Kramer and Diane Alstad
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Recently Caz, Liz and Lindy spent a day with renowned trauma expert, Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk, author of “The Body Keeps the Score”. Our trio unpack their day of learning, and talk about the impact of trauma on the body, on memory, on recovery and why it is important in the context of cults. Using their hastily scribbled notes, they discuss neurophysiology, EMDR, neurofeedback, and a bunch of other technical stuff. Listen up if you’ve an interest in the mind-body connection and trauma recovery.
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What do you do if someone you love won’t acknowledge the harm that you experienced - the harm they may have caused? How long do you wait, and is there another way to move on? In this third episode Sam and Caz talk about the yearning for acknowledgement and reparation that follows betrayal, especially betrayal as a child. Join this final conversation with Sam and Caz, as they grapple with hurts left behind, relationships that may never be repaired, and their own creative pursuits for justice.
Show Notes:
Webpage: An Open Letter Calling for Restorative Justice for the Children of Centrepoint Community
Book: Trauma and Recovery - Judith Herman
Podcast: The Children of Osho - Cult Vault
Podcast: In My Father’s Footsteps - Indoctrination
Podcast: Children of the Guru - Loss of Identity within the Rajneesh Cult - Talk Beliefs
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Decades after leaving a cult, what is life like for a child cult survivor? How does she build identity and integrate into the outside world? In this second episode of Caz and Sam Jahara’s intimate conversation, the two discuss these concerns and more. They talk about the resources needed to recover and thrive, the wounds left by neglect and abuse, and the unique challenges those born or raised in a cult must navigate. This vulnerable second part of a three-part conversation is not to be missed.
Notes
Film: Wild Wild Country on Netflix
Article: The psychological impacts on children who grow up in cults by Sam Jahara
Book: What Happened to You? Conversations on trauma, and healing by Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey
Book: Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman -
Caz speaks with UK psychotherapist Sam Jahara about her years as a child living in the communes of the Indian guru Rajneesh in the 1980s. They explore how the Rajneesh movement was so similar in many difficult ways to the Centrepoint Community that Caz was involved with as a child. This is the first episode of a three part interview between two women who explore the long term effects that cults have on the children who live in them. Listen up if you care about the impacts of cults on kids and are interested in accountability and repair.
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Join Caz, as she interviews two accidental cult investigators about two notorious NZ cults. The first is Natalie Malcon, producer of “Escaping Utopia” the recent Gloriavale docuseries, and “Heaven & Hell; The Centrepoint Story”. The second is Anke Richter, journalist and author of “Cult Trip”, a deep dive into the complexity of both Gloriavale and Centrepoint. This conversation between three cult activists, each using a different medium to shine light on cult harm, will be eye opening.
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Join Liz as she chats with ex-Gloriavale film participant Rosanna Overcomer and film producer Natalie Malcon about the recent Escaping Utopia docuseries. We give you a glimpse “behind the scenes”, into the film’s journey to the screens, set design, casting, meticulous re-enactments, as well as the personal challenge of sharing one's story. We also delve into the ethical dilemmas of filming undercover scenes in India, sparking thought-provoking discussions on filmmaking and media responsibilities.
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Have you seen the eye-opening three-part TV docu-series “Escaping Utopia” that hit NZ this past week? Join us for a candid discussion as Caz, Liz, and Lindy share their reflections. Gain insight into the complexities of escaping Gloriavale and the support systems aiding those transitioning to freedom. Listen in as we uncover the resilience and courage of individuals breaking free from a closed community, and see the plight of group of members who are part of an Indian Gloriavale Community which has never featured on our screens before.
Show Notes:
Documentary: TVNZ On Demand New Zealand: Escaping Utopia: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/escaping-utopia
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Lindy chats again with Tore, president of Cult Information and Family Support Australia. Tore explains some of the supports CIFS offers leavers of cult groups. The two talk about the importance of group support for ex-cultists, why cult leavers need psycho-education about cults, and how critical it is for survivors to talk to someone who understands. Tore explains why therapists need to be trained in the unique impacts of cults in order to deliver therapy which addresses a cult leaver’s needs.
Show Notes
Website: Cult Information and Family Support Australia
Event: Regain & Restore Freedom of Mind - Weekend Workshop with Toire Klevyer - 3-5th May 2024
Article: ABC Life in a cult - how I escaped
Audio: ABC The psychological tricks that make cults so dangerous
Website: International Cultic Studies Association
Book: Steve Hassan’s Combatting Cult Mind Control
Website: Gillie Jenkinson Hope Valley Counselling
Book: Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Abuse by Gillie Jenkinson
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