Episodes
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Stephanie Gioia is a founder at Future Work Design with a focus on strategic planning and organizational innovation. She also serves as the director of the Either/Org project and teaches human-centered design for organizational innovation at the University of Oregon's Executive MBA program. She’s taught at Stanford’s d.school, University of Michigan, and Pacific Northwest College of Art. She is the founder of deckaholic.com, the world's largest library of card decks for problem solving and creativity. We talk about organizational design and strategy, and helping organizations navigate change.
Listen to learn about:
>> Organizational design
>> Either/Org’s Inspiration Library for organizations
>> Prototyping organizational changes
>> Navigating and de-risking change
Our Guest
Stephanie Gioia (she/her) is a founding partner at Future Work Design with a focus on strategic planning and organizational innovation. Stephanie was one of the earliest strategists to use the power of Human Centered Design to solve organizational design challenges. Stephanie also serves as director of The Either/Org Project, an organizational design inspiration lab. This project vibrates all her interests: organization design, practical tool-making, learning and inspiration, and a firm belief that we can change the whole world by changing the world of work.Stephanie teaches Human Centered Design for Organizational Innovation at University of Oregon’s Executive MBA program. In the past she has taught programs at Stanford’s d.school, University of Michigan, and Pacific Northwest College of Art. She is the founder of www.deckaholic.com, the world's largest library of card decks for problem solving and creativity.
Stephanie holds an MBA from the University of Michigan in Strategy and Organizational Sensemaking and earned her B.A. in History and Government from Georgetown University. She lives in beautiful Klickitat country (White Salmon, WA) with her partner Dave and is a mom to two fantastic kids.
Show Highlights
[01:59] Stephanie’s interest in organizational life led her to taking jobs in large organizations to see how they functioned.
[02:40] How can we make organizations operate better and be a better experience for employees?
[03:16] Getting an MBA in strategy and organizational sense making.
[03:52] Deciding to use design thinking to prototype and design better workplaces.
[04:55] Her time at IDEO.
[05:25] Co-founding Future Work Design.
[06:22] Working with clients at Future Work Design.
[07:54] Using Future Work Design’s Wayfinder card deck to help a team align and start working together.
[11:05] Helping clients get comfortable with ambiguity.
[11:23] Stephanie offers an example of a client project focused on reimagining how the client might make decisions better aligned with their core values.
[16:23] Reclaiming the “design” part of organizational design.
[20:18] The Either/Org’s inspiration library for organizations looking to innovate.
[22:57] Visualizing an organization beyond the org chart.
[23:57] Organizational prototyping.
[29:25] Helping organizations navigate and de-risk change.
[32:11] A project for an international NGP that entailed changing their entire operating model.
[34:07] Managing the expectations of change.Links
Stephanie on LinkedIn
Stephanie on Medium
Stephanie on Instagram
Stephanie on YouTube
Stephanie on UX Magazine
Future Work Design
either/org
Deckaholic
DT 101 EpisodesCivic Design + Innovation Ops + System Design with Ryann Hoffman — DT101 E62
Employee Experience by Design: How to Create an Effective EX for Competitive Advantage with Belinda Gannaway — DT101 E75
UX + Into, Through, and (Almost) Out of Design with Kara DeFrias — DT101 E103
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Sarah Doody is a user research experience designer and researcher. She's also the founder of Career Strategy Lab, a UX career coaching program. In 2011, she co-created the curriculum and taught for General Assembly's first 11-week UX intensive program in New York City. She has extensive experience doing experience design, product strategy, and user research for companies including Fatherly, Sling, Citi Bike, We Work, Domino Magazine, Tictail, the Muse, Dow Jones and more. She speaks at conferences and teaches workshops worldwide. Today, we talk about designing your career and user experience for small businesses.
Listen to learn about:
>> Creating a career roadmap
>> Career marketing materials and messaging
>> The importance of stories and storytelling when interviewing
Our Guest
Sarah Doody is the founder of Career Strategy Lab™, a program that helps UX and product professionals at all career stages navigate their job search and articulate their skills and experience through individualized and group coaching. She is also the host of the Career Strategy Lab podcast.Since 2021, professionals who have worked with Sarah have increased their salaries by 40% on average and have been hired at prestigious brands such as Microsoft, Amazon, Salesforce, Nordstrom, Spotify, Blue Origin on average in 3.5 months. She has been featured as an expert in Forbes, Fast Company, Insider, Fox Business, and more.
Show Highlights
[01:43] Sarah originally planned to have a career in neuroscience.
[02:19] During a gap year, she ended up in graphic and web design instead, which led to a focus on information architecture.
[2:50] From there, Sarah turned to product and user experience design and user research.
[3:43] Launching her own consulting company.
[04:40] How creating and teaching a workshop about building a design portfolio launched Sarah’s new career coaching business.
[06:07] One mistake many make when it comes to their careers.
[07:57] Sarah’s company helps people do research on themselves to help them find jobs and careers that fulfill them professionally and personally.
[09:04] Being more intentional when thinking about your career.
[10:47] Creating a career roadmap.
[15:08] Sarah’s advice for those who are trying to figure out their next career moves.
[15:30] The importance of business relationships.
[18:01] The three core career marketing materials.
[19:41] Focus on outcomes.
[21:31] Tailoring messaging for the job you want next.
[26:26] As a job candidate, you’re a product and companies hiring are your customers.
[27:35] Researching companies before the interview.
[29:16] Anders Ericsson and the 10,000 hour rule.
[30:30] Using stories in interviews.
[34:09] Think like a lawyer when interviewing.
[39:16] How Sarah and her team work on projects.
[42:02] Where to find out more about Sarah and her work.
[43:27] Sarah’s last advice about career planning.
Links
Sarah on LinkedIn
Sarah’s website
Sarah on YouTube
Sarah on Instagram
Sarah on Medium
Sarah on Forbes
Sarah on Inside Design
Sarah on UX Magazine
Career Strategy Lab
Career Strategy Podcast
Sarah Doody on the democratization of UX and thinking like a designer
3 Signs Your Team Isn’t Doing Enough User Research
The NN/g UX Podcast: Designing a UX Career
The UX Growth Podcast, Season 2 Episode 12
People of Product: How to Finally Land a Job in UX
DT 101 Episodes
UX + Design Teams with Nick Finck — DT101 E117
UX + Into, Through, and (Almost) Out of Design with Kara DeFrias — DT101 E103
UX Research + Research Teams + UX Camp DC with Glenette Clark — DT101 E80 -
Episodes manquant?
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This is the inaugural DT101 Live!, with guest George Aye. George co-founded Greater Good Studio with the belief that design can help advance equity. Previously, he spent seven years at global innovation firm IDEO before being hired as the first human-centered designer at the Chicago Transit Authority. He speaks frequently across the US and internationally. George holds the position of Adjunct Full Professor at The School of the Art Institute of Chicago. Today, we are talking live about ethics in design in the design industry.
Listen to learn about:
>> What is ethical design?
>> The current state of ethics in the design industry
>> Project “gut checks” and saying no to projects
>> How power can warp ethics
Show Highlights
[01:33] Audience welcome + breakfast fun + mochi doughnuts!
[05:20] Dawan shares the event agenda.
[07:42] Dawan introduces George.
[09:06] George starts off by talking about human-centered design.
[09:41] The story of the invention of e-cigarettes on the Stanford campus and how it relates to human-centered design.
[11:13] What George found most shocking about the story.
[11:24] It’s not just about can we do something, it’s about should we do it?
[12:38] Looking at the roots of the design industry.
[13:13] The weakness of Dieter Rams’ ten principles of good design.
[14:20] What we need is an ethical framework for good design.
[15:12] How Greater Good Studio approaches ethics in design.
[15:58] Lived experience is expertise.
[16:21] Design is transformative.
[17:04] The design industry and education has trained designers to always say yes to projects, but not to know when to say no.
[18:01] George’s Ten Provocative Questions.
[19:10] Losing one’s inner conscience and voice.
[20:47] A succinct definition of power.
[21:24] Power asymmetry.
[23:59] The risk of working on projects that potentially cause harm.
[26:00] Greater Good Studio’s weekly gut checks and breakup emails.
[27:38] Some patterns and a framework when writing your own breakup emails.
[29:12] Design is an accelerant.
[31:08] We must call out the ways in which design can be harmful.
[31:24] George’s ideas around a possible standard design code of ethics and standards for practice.
[32:05] Accountability, not gatekeeping.
[37:21] Leadership needs to constantly practice being receptive to hard feedback from the team.
[38:19] The gut check is a deliberate tripping hazard.
[40:28] Ethics for people who don’t normally handle ethics.
[42:48] Approaching the potential for harm in a trained-to-be-optimistic design industry.
[47:58] How do we approach C-suite and other leaders to have conversations around ethics?
[51:49] What the next ten years looks like for ethics in design.
Links
George on LinkedIn
George at SAIC
Greater Good Studio
Greater Good Studio on Medium
Articles by George
Why designers write on the walls (and why you should, too)
Design Education’s Big Gap: Understanding the Role of Power
It’s Time to Define What “Good” Means in Our Industry
The Gut Check, by Sara Cantor Aye
DT 101 Episodes
Design for Good + Gut Checks + Seeing Power with George Aye — DT101 E50
Design for Good + Ethics + Social Impact with Sara Cantor — DT101 E100
Trauma-informed Design + Social Work + Design Teams with Rachael Dietkus — DT101 E81 -
Kareem Collie is an accomplished designer and educator with a rich background in both the corporate and academic worlds. Leading design teams for organizations like Nickelodeon, Coca-Cola, and USA Network, he has driven transformation and engagement through his expertise in visual and user-experience design. As Design Lead at IBM, he was instrumental in innovating user experiences. Currently, as the Design Director and Manager for NASA JPL's DesignLab, he applies design thinking to communicating and educating about space exploration, bringing a unique intersection of design, science, and technology to the forefront. His thought leadership includes co-editing "The Black Experience in Design" and serving on the AIGA’s national educators steering committee. Today, we talk about how curiosity fuels design thinking, communication, and leadership.
Listen to learn about:
>> A deep dive into the why’s of design thinking
>> Embracing curiosity and seeing where it leads you
>> What it means to truly communicate
>> Kareem’s wonderful, meandering path through design and design thinking
Our Guest
Kareem Collie is an accomplished designer and educator with a rich background in both the corporate and academic worlds. Leading design teams for organizations like Nickelodeon, Coca-Cola, and USA Network, he has driven transformation and engagement through his expertise in visual and user-experience design. As Design Lead at IBM, he was instrumental in innovating user experiences. Currently, as the Design Director and Manager for NASA JPL's DesignLab, he applies design thinking to communicating and educating about space exploration, bringing a unique intersection of design, science, and technology to the forefront.Before IBM, Kareem was the Director of Design at The Hive, where he merged design thinking with liberal arts and encouraged interdisciplinary collaboration. He has also lectured at prestigious institutions like Stanford University and Pratt Institute.
His thought leadership includes co-editing "The Black Experience in Design" and serving on the AIGA’s national educators steering committee. He is a frequent speaker, exhibitor, and podcast guest, solidifying his status in the design community. Kareem holds advanced degrees from NYU and Pratt Institute.
With a focus on user-experience and visual design, and a commitment to critical explorations of culture, Kareem Collie continually seeks impactful opportunities through design.
Show Highlights
[02:19] Kareem’s path to working at NASA.
[03:27] Being a creative child.
[04:14] Attending Brooklyn Technical High School and studying architecture.
[05:22] Discovering new media/digital art while at Howard University.
[05:57] Transferring to the Pratt Institute to study graphic design and art direction, and falling in love with design.
[07:06] Kareem’s early years in the design industry.
[07:55] Co-founding a design studio and teaching at the Pratt Institute.
[09:02] Getting to design his own graduate degree curriculum at Gallatin at NYU.
[10:18] Going to Stanford’s d.school.
[11:02] Becoming the Associate Director and the Rick and Susan Sontag Center for Collaborative Creativity aka “The Hive” at Claremont College.
[12:03] Passing through IBM before becoming the Head of Design at NASA’s JPL Lab.
[15:07] Dawan and Kareem share memories of travel and exploration and sharing a curiosity about the world.
[20:30] Communication and being vulnerable.
[22:33] Communication is collaboration.
[23:40] Dawan talks about needing to be willing to change during the experience of communicating with someone.
[27:05] One of the things Kareem loves most is being part of a learning journey with others.
[30:28] What it means to be a leader and how Kareem developed his own sense of leadership.
[33:20] The importance of embracing and being OK with ambiguity.
[39:15] Design thinking has helped Kareem better understand his own thought processes.
[40:00] Kareem hops onto his soapbox about why he loves design thinking and wants others to understand it better.
[42:40] Developing the Critical Design Studio course at Claremont.
[46:11] Design changes how we see and move through the world.
[49:28] Design thinking gives students an alternative way of looking at a thing, whatever that thing might be.
Links
Kareem on LinkedIn
Kareem’s website
Kareem on Undefined by Design
Hello from the Pluriverse: Season 1 Ep 28 with Kareem Collie
The Black Experience in Design
Book Recommendations
The Black Experience in Design: Identity, Expression & Reflection, edited by Anne Berry, Kareem Collie, Penina Acayo Laker, Lesley-Ann Noel, Jennifer Rittner, and Kelly Walters
DT 101 Episodes
Building Design Capacity + Measuring Design Value + Designing Studios with Doug Powell — DT101 E16A Designer’s Journey into Designing for Health and Healthcare with Lorna Ross — DT101 E45
Working and Leading at the Intersection of Engineering, Business and Design with Kevin Bethune — DT101 E76
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Holly Owens is an Adjunct Professor at the Touro College Graduate School of Technology, where she teaches in the Instructional Technology program, and works full time as an Instructional Designer with PillPack by Amazon Pharmacy. She has over 15 years of experience in education in various roles, including high school educator, instructional technologist, and podcast host. Today, we talk about instructional design and designing learning experiences for adults.
Listen to learn about:
>> What is instructional design?
>> Adaptive, individualized learning
>> Andragogy and designing learning experiences for adults
>> Incorporating strategic plans and goals into the learning experience
Our Guest
As a Corporate Instructional Designer at Amazon Pharmacy, Holly brings over 17 years of diverse experience in education, specializing in instructional technology, design, and teaching. Since 2012, she has been actively involved in online education, currently serving as an educator at Touro University's Graduate School of Technology in their Instructional Design/Technology program.With two master's degrees from the University of Maryland, Global Campus—one in Instructional Technology and another in Distance Education—Holly also holds a certificate in Distance Education Leadership and is currently pursuing a doctorate in Organizational Leadership.
Holly’s dedication lies in promoting online learning and its vast potential to empower students worldwide. As the host of the EdUp EdTech podcast, she offers a leading resource to stay updated on the latest and most impactful Ed Tech tools revolutionizing education. The podcast features guests from the EdTech industry, sharing personal and professional growth stories while exploring how technology is reshaping the education landscape.
Show Highlights
[01:49] Holly discovered a love of EdTech while teaching high school, her first career.
[02:12] Moving into higher education and instructional design.
[03:44] Getting a job with Amazon Pharmacy.
[05:09] Dawan explains why we talk about instructional design on the podcast.
[07:06] What is instructional design?
[08:59] Holly’s thoughts on remote/distance learning.
[11:36] Adult vs young learners.
[13:33] Designing learning experiences for adult learners.
[15:07] Holly discusses how she designs learning experiences.
[18:00] Adult learners want to know the destination and the what and how of getting there.
[20:10] Fitting the strategic plan and business goals into the learning experience.
[22:32] The differences between the corporate and education spaces when it comes to
innovation.
[27:18] Holly’s thoughts and advice for those thinking about getting into instructional design.
[31:23] Books and resources Holly recommends.
[34:24] Where to find out more about Holly and her work.
Links
Holly on LinkedIn
Holly at Touro University
EdUp EdTech
Holly Owens—Making the Leap
from Educator to Instructional Designer
An Insider's Perspective:
The Journey from Educator to Instructional Designer w/ Holly Owens
Holly Owens with Host Toddi
Norum: The Changing World of Online Ed & the Future of the Instructional
Designer
Holly Owens - The Secret is
in the Sauce: 5 Key Ingredients to Use When Designing an Online Course from
Scratch
5 Ways to Help Students
Succeed in Online Courses with Holly Owens
Book Recommendations
Map It: The hands-on guide to strategic training design, by Cathy MooreDesign for How People Learn, by Julie Dirksen
Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change, by Julie Dirksen
What I Wish I Knew Before Becoming an Instructional Designer, by Luke Hobson
The eLearning Designer's Handbook: A Practical Guide to the eLearning Development Process for New eLearning Designers, by Tim Slade
DT 101 Episodes
Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change with Julie Dirksen — DT101 E1315.5 Things Every Designer Should Know About: The Future of Higher Education with Bryan Alexander — DT101 E97
Learning Design with Yianna Vovides — DT101 E58
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David Staley is an associate professor in the Department of History at Ohio State University. He teaches courses in digital history and historical methods. He also holds courtesy appointments in two departments, the Department of Design, where he has taught courses in digital history and design futures, and the Department of Educational Studies, where he has led the forum on the university. We talk about the future of higher education and learning, remote learning, and explore some of the ideas in David’s latest book, Knowledge Towns.
Listen to learn about:
>> AI and its potential impact on education
>> How will we define a “university” in the future?
>> Remote learning
>> David’s book, Knowledge Towns
Our Guest
David Staley is an academic, writer, designer, futurist and journalist. He is an Associate Professor in the Department of History and (by courtesy) the Departments of Design and Educational Studies at The Ohio State University. He is the author of "Alternative Universities: Speculative Design for Innovation in Higher Education", the co-author of "Knowledge Towns: Colleges and Universities as Talent Magnets" and author of "Visionary Histories", a collection of futures essays.
He is an Honorary Faculty Fellow at the Center for Higher Education Leadership and Innovative Practice (CHELIP) at Bay Path University, and a fellow at the Center for Science and the Imagination at Arizona State University. In 2022 he was awarded "Best Freelance Writer" by the Ohio Society of Professional Journalists for his "Next" futures column with Columbus Underground.
Show Highlights
[04:32] David starts off the conversation by talking about how AI will impact and change the future of higher education.
[05:12] The Interface.
[06:10] One of the top design problems for the remainder of the 21st century.
[09:11] What our relationship with AI might look like.
[09:40] David gives a few hints on a book idea he’s working on.
[10:19] The importance of knowing the level of dialogue a learner needs at any given moment.
[11:26] David believes that AI will become a pretty important part of the classroom system.
[14:01] New forms of knowledge.
[14:46] Preparing students for a world of dynamic change.
[18:01] David asks Dawan if he thinks students will come to university to solve problems rather than to learn a discipline.
[21:26] A Miro Moment.
[23:28] David discusses the epistemic culling phenomenon happening in higher education.[27:40] Will we be redefining what a university is? What might that look like?
[32:41] Dawan asks, What is higher learning, and how does it serve us?
[33:39] David takes us back to the early pandemic years, and the remote class experience.
[34:39] Using the experience as a teaching opportunity.
[34:53] The generic feeling of taking classes remotely.
[35:32] The idea of Place.
[36:43] The value of learning together.
[37:20] Where will the location of teaching and learning be in the future?
[38:07] Will the numbers of remote students continue to increase?
[38:41] The emergency nature of online learning during the pandemic, as opposed to designed online learning.
[42:26] How does a university bring what is unique about them into the online learning experience?
[43:30] David contemplates future online learning looking like tutorials and one-on-one learning.
[47:51] David believes that the best teaching and learning happens one-on-one.
[49:35] Colleges and universities are talent magnets.
[51:29] Place does matter when it comes to universities, but mostly from an economic development standpoint.
[53:37] When remote working and learning can happen anywhere, workers and learners will have the choice in where they live, learn, and work.
[56:04] Universities and colleges need to rethink their relationship with the place they are located.
[57:32] Moving beyond survival to thriving.
[59:18] Graceful endings in higher education spaces.
Links
David on LinkedIn
David’s articles on Educause
David on ResearchGate
Associate Professor David Staley Discusses Digital History and the Future
Voices of Excellence from Arts and Sciences
Creative Mornings Columbus
Books by David
Historical Imagination
Alternative Universities: Speculative Design for Innovation in Higher Education
Knowledge Towns: Colleges and Universities as Talent Magnets
Computers, Visualization, and History: How New Technology Will Transform Our Understanding of the Past
History and Future: Using Historical Thinking to Imagine the Future
Brain, Mind and Internet: A Deep History and Future
Book Recommendations
The Next Rules of Work: The Mindset, Skillset and Toolset to Lead Your Organization through Uncertainty, by Gary Bolles
The Future of Cities, edited by Joel Kotkin and Ryan Streeter
DT 101 EpisodesA Design Thinking Practitioner’s Shift into Higher Education and the Potential for Design Thinking in Higher Education with Fred Leichter — DT101 E4
Learning Design + Designing for How People Learn with Julie Dirksen — DT101 E42
5.5 Things Every Designer Should Know About: The Future of Higher Education with Bryan Alexander — DT101 E97
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This is a Design Thinking 101 episode in the Ask Like a Designer series. Ask Like a Designer helps people explore creating services and solutions by thinking and solving like a designer.
You’ll learn about design thinking, service design, learning design, leading and building high-performing teams, and ways to achieve better outcomes.
This episode is based on this article: ALD014 // 5 Ways Nobody Cares About You and How They Make You a Better Designer. Read the article and others like it on Fluid Hive’s Ask Like a Designer.
What did you think of this episode? Please send your questions, suggestions, and guest ideas to Dawan and the Fluid Hive team.
Cheers ~ Dawan
Design Thinking 101 Podcast Host
President, Fluid Hive
Show Highlights
[00:51] Your tiny narcissist.
[00:55] The five ways nobody cares about you.
[01:52] Nobody cares what you create.
[02:13] Nobody cares about the problems you solve.
[02:35] Nobody cares what you know.
[02:56] Nobody cares about your experience.
[03:19] Nobody cares if you win.
[03:51] Fluid Hive’s free thinking tool has all of the questions you need to answer to keep your inner narcissist in check.The Design Thinking 101 Podcast’s Ask Like a Designer series
Ask Like a Designer — DT101 E61
Design, and One Question to Rule Them All // ALD 002 — DT101 E63There Are No Problems Worth Solving — Only Questions Worth Asking // ALD 003 — DT101 E65
Your Good-Life OS: Designing a System for Living Well and Peak Performance // ALD 004 — DT101 E67 The Swiss-Army Lives of How-Might-We Questions // ALD 005 — DT 101 E69
Designing Facilitation: A System for Creating and Leading Exceptional Events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73
The Innovation Saboteur’s Handbook // ALD 007 – DT101 E77
Three Little Words for Better (Business) Relationships // ALD 008 — DT101 E79
The 30-Minute Solution Matrix: How to Think and Solve Under Pressure // ALD 009 — DT101 E87
Protect Your Solutions with Transformation Stories: Part 1 — Crafting Well // ALD 010 — DT101 E89
Protect Your Solutions with Transformation Stories: Part 2 — Telling Well // ALD 011 — DT101 E92
Want Better Outcomes? Find Better Problems. // ALD 012 — DT101 E99
Designing a Learning System for the Good Life // ALD 013 — DT101 E108
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Julie Dirksen is the author of the books Design for How People Learn and Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change. She is a learning strategy consultant with a focus on incorporating behavioral science into learning interventions. Julie was my guest for episode 42 of the show. In this episode, we talk about her latest book, ways to motivate learners and workshop participants, designing learning experiences for skill development, and more.
Listen to learn about:
>> Julie’s latest book, Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change
>> Behavior change challenges
>> The biggest challenge when creating virtual learning experiences
>> Motivating and engaging learners
>> AI in educationOur Guest
Julie Dirksen is the author of the books Design For How People Learn and Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change. She is a learning strategy consultant with a focus on incorporating behavioral science into learning interventions. Her MS degree is in Instructional Systems Technology from Indiana University. She’s been an adjunct faculty member at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design and is a Learning Guild Guildmaster.
She is happiest when she gets to learn something new, and you can find her at usablelearning.com.
Show Highlights
[02:02] Julie gives a quick summary of her first book and how Talk to the Elephant is its natural sequel.
[02:42] The new book tackles the challenges in actually changing behavior.
[04:26] On learning experiences.
[05:21] Julie is starting to organize a third book, which will be on skill acquisition.
[05:34] The evolution of behavioral design.
[06:21] The COVID-19 pandemic is the biggest behavior change experiment in the history of the world.
[07:06] The book’s audience are those in the learning and development field — people who design learning experiences.
[08:00] The Change Ladder.
[08:54] Julie offers one case study she uses in the book to demonstrate the challenges around behavior change.
[14:17] The importance of communicating and working with the people you serve when it comes to changing behaviors.
[14:58] Julie tells a story illustrating the importance of talking to and understanding the people you serve and their needs.
[17:57] It’s important for people to participate in their own behavioral design.
[20:15] Creating the conditions for learners to motivate themselves.
[21:22] Making things as easy as possible for someone to do.
[22:42] A Miro Moment.
[25:27] Creating learning experiences that engage learners.
[26:14] The biggest challenge in designing virtual workshops.
[27:55] Why Julie is interested in Virtual Reality.
[29:34] The top two challenges Julie sees in almost every behavior change.
[34:55] Immediate impact and immediate rewards help learners stay motivated.
[37:21] Helping learners see what they will be able to do with this new skill or new knowledge.
[42:53] Julie shows appreciation for how video games onboard players as a great example of guiding people along the learning curve.
[45:11] Designing learning experiences to make your learner feel smart and capable as they acquire new skills and knowledge.
[48:42] Julie talks about research on self-directed learning by Catherine Lombardozzi.
[49:20] Julie and Catherine will be doing a webinar on the key behaviors seen in good self-directed learners.
[52:05] Julie ponders how systems thinking and design fits into behavior change.
[52:54] Dawan and Julie talk about AI and its role in education.
Links
Julie on LinkedIn
Usable Learning
Designing for how people learn
Book Recommendations
Design for How People Learn, by Julie Dirksen
Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change, by Julie Dirksen
Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman
Nudge: The Final Edition, by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein
How Change Happens, by Cass Sunstein
Misbelief: What Makes Rational People Believe Irrational Things, by Dan Ariely
Predictably Irrational, Revised and Expanded Edition: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions, by Dan Ariely
DT 101 Episodes
Learning Design + Designing for How People Learn with Julie Dirksen — DT101 E42
Learning Design with Yianna Vovides — DT101 E58
Adding System Awareness to System Design to Your Innovation Stack with Julie Guinn — DT101 E43 -
David Lemus is an independent design strategist with engineering roots working with organizations to empower teams to be customer obsessed and have a culture of iterative learning. He has designed and facilitated dozens of design thinking workshops across Fortune 500 companies, non-profit and government organizations. David is also currently an adjunct professor at the University of Portland's Pamplin School of Business and leads the Portland Design Thinking Meetup community.
Listen to learn about:
>> Team facilitation
>> Human centered-design: mindsets over methods
>> [Re]Building human connectionOur Guest
David Lemus is an independent design strategist with engineering roots working with organizations to empower teams to be customer obsessed and have a culture of iterative learning. He has designed and facilitated dozens of design thinking workshops across Fortune 500 companies, non-profit and government organizations.
David was in-house at Capital One on the Design Thinking and Strategy team. That team focused on changing the way the enterprise worked by empowering all employees with the mindsets and tools of design thinking. His team scaled practitioner and senior leadership programs throughout the risk-averse organization.
Prior to Capital One, David was a senior consultant at Peer Insight, a service design and innovation firm where he led service design projects with Fortune 500 and non-profit clients. David is also currently an adjunct professor at the University of Portland's Pamplin School of Business and leads the Portland Design Thinking Meetup community. David has a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Maryland.
Show Highlights
[02:10] How David went from engineer to design strategist.
[02:59] The two experiences as an engineer that led David into design thinking.
[04:46] Experimenting to find the right career path.
[06:54] The challenges of experimentation and risk-taking in the workplace.
[09:07] Teaching human-centered design and creativity at Capital One.
[11:16] David’s focus is on mindsets, not methods, when it comes to teaching design thinking to others.
[14:08] Helping non-designers to understand and use human-centered design in their work.[17:04] A Miro Moment.
[18:53] Breaking down silos.
[20:29] The lack of skilled facilitators for collaboration at work.
[21:20] Finding ways to make meetings productive and fun.
[22:40] Do you really need a meeting?
[24:47] Designing meetings.
[26:09] Practicing active listening during meetings.
[27:26] Cultivating the right energy in the team and creating the right environment in the room for the work you’re doing.
[27:26] Designing the right activities for your meeting in order to achieve the meeting’s goals.
[30:46] David and Dawan talk about why people’s design thinking expectations are often not met in reality.
[33:23] What David is working on now: Connection.
[38:37] Where to learn more about David’s work.Links
David on LinkedIn
lemus&co
David’s websiteOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Public Sector Design + Outcome Chains + Prototyping for Impact with Boris Divjak — DT101 E26
Designing for Healthcare vs Sick Care + The Emergency Design Collective — DT101 E52
The Experimentation Field Book with Natalie Foley — DT101 E123 -
Liz Chen is Design Thinking Lead at Innovate Carolina, the unit dedicated to innovation, entrepreneurship, and economic development at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Liz is also a co-author of The Experimentation Field Book, a practical how-to guide on rigorously testing assumptions and concepts. We talk about teaching and applying design thinking in higher education, and learn more about The Experimentation Field Book.
Listen to learn about:
>> Innovate Carolina
>> The Experimentation Field Book
>> Design thinking and public health
>> Design thinking in strategic planningOur Guest
Liz is Design Thinking Lead at Innovate Carolina, the unit dedicated to innovation, entrepreneurship, and economic development at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She leads the interdisciplinary Graduate Certificate in Innovation for the Public Good and launched her team’s recharge center that allows grad student Design Thinking and Innovation Fellows to work on staff as part-time employees to support design and innovation projects with clients inside and outside of the university. Liz is also a co-author of The Experimentation Field Book, a practical how-to guide on rigorously testing assumptions and concepts. Liz is a former high school science teacher, tech nonprofit co-founder, and public health researcher.
Show Highlights
[02:50] Getting accepted into Innovation Next as a grad student, a national innovation acceleration program.
[03:30] Completing her Ph.D. and becoming the Design Thinking Lead at Innovate Carolina.
[04:16] The changes Liz has seen in how design thinking is being used in research.
[04:54] Liz talks about a project funded by the EPA that she and her student team are working on, to reduce food waste.
[06:34] UNC’s graduate certificate program in Innovation for the Public Good.
[07:24] Divergent vs. convergent thinking.
[08:41] The challenges in using design thinking when many funding organizations ask you to pitch a “single solution.”
[11:15] Sharing what didn’t work is as important as sharing what did work.
[12:24] Innovate Carolina has consulting services, where grad students and fellows get to work on client projects.
[15:43] Liz talks about how Innovate Carolina’s infrastructure works within the infrastructure of the university.
[19:15] The Experimentation Field Book provides resources for readers to self-teach the process of testing ideas and assumptions.
[20:59] A Miro Moment.
[23:35] Some of Liz’s favorite tools from the book.
[25:45] The book’s five-step testing process.
[28:17] Using design thinking in public health.
[33:56] Three things Liz wishes people knew about teaching science at the high school level.
[39:29] The Experimentation Field Book is for anyone who is problem-solving or innovating.
[42:11] Liz and her team are helping with the work on UNC’s Carolina Next strategic plan.
45:51] Dawan shares a little about his strategy design experiences at Ohio State University.Links
Liz on LinkedIn
Liz on UNC’s website
Liz on ResearchGate
Liz on GoogleScholar
Innovate Carolina
Carolina Graduate Certificate in Innovation for the Public Good
MyHealthEdWant 20% off of The Experimentation Field Book? Click here and use promo code CUP20
Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
The Experimentation Field Book with Natalie Foley — DT101 E123
Experiencing Design: The Innovator’s Journey with Karen Hold — DT101 E71
Designing Facilitation: A System for Creating and Leading Exceptional Events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73
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Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel is an Afro-Trinidadian design educator and an Assistant Professor in the Department of Design Studies at North Carolina State University. Lesley promotes greater critical awareness among designers and design students by introducing critical theory concepts and vocabulary into the design studio. We talk about questioning design practice, dreaming and prototyping, and her book, Designing Social Change.
Listen to learn about:
>> Design studies
>> Designing with non-designers and “design out in the wild”
>> Lesley’s new book, Design Social Change
>> Designing dreams together across our differencesOur Guest
Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel is an Afro-Trinidadian design educator. She is an Assistant Professor in the Dept. of Design Studies at North Carolina State University. She practices design through emancipatory, critical and anti-hegemonic lenses, focusing on equity, social justice and the experiences of people who are often excluded from design research. Lesley also attempts to promote greater critical awareness among designers and design students by introducing critical theory concepts and vocabulary into the design studio, for example, through The Designer’s Critical Alphabet. Her research also highlights the work of designers outside of Europe and North America as an act of decolonizing design. Her identity is shaped by her ethnic background as an Afro-Trinidadian; her experience as a daughter, sister and mother; and her lived experiences in Trinidad and Tobago, Brazil, Tanzania, Uganda and the USA.Show Highlights
[02:50] Catching up with Lesley and what she’s working on now.
[03:56] Lesley’s latest book comes out November 28, 2023
[04:50] What is design studies?
[05:13] Design studies has two foci: inward on the practitioner, and outwards towards society.[06:01] A lot of Lesley’s work focuses on who designs, and who gets to define design.
[06:12] Lesley is excited by what design looks like when it’s outside of the design sphere.
[11:10] Working with non-designers has allowed Lesley to see design processes more clearly.
[12:18] Collaborating with designers globally.
[14:05] Grappling with complexity and vagueness in the design space.
[18:32] Lesley’s new book shows readers how they can change the world around them for the better.
[19:33] People need to be active citizens of the world.
[20:25] A Miro Moment
[22:34] Design Social Change is written for everyone, not just designers.
[23:38] The world is always changing and we have the power to change it for the better.
[25:48] The three big ideas of the book.
[26:07] Ask questions. Work to understand the world around you.
[26:47] Emotional intelligence, and moving beyond raw emotion into “what next?”
[27:56] Envisioning a better world, and finding a path to get there.
[28:51] Prototyping a better world.
[30:30] The challenge is: how do we dream together across our differences?
[33:53] People can dream different paths towards the same goal.
[34:57] Why Dawan loves difficult questions.Links
Dr. Noel on LinkedIn
Dr. Noel’s website
Dr. Noel on NC State University website
A Designer’s Critical Alphabet Cards
Link to her dissertation “Teaching and Learning Design Thinking through a Critical Lens at a Primary School in Rural Trinidad and Tobago”
Article from the University of Wisconsin-Madison on Dr. Noel’s work with emancipatory research and design thinkingAIA recording of the CAE research conference call (does include images as part of the recording) with Dr. Noel where she presented her research/processes in the field of critical design thinking with an emphasis on emancipatory process.
Book Recommendations
Design Social Change: Take Action, Work toward Equity, and Challenge the Status Quo by Lesley-Ann Noel
The Little Book of Designer's Existential Crises, by Emmanuel Tsekleves and Lesley-Ann Noel
The Black Experience in Design: Identity, Expression & Reflection, by Anne H. Berry (Editor), Kareem Collie (Editor), Penina Acayo Laker (Editor), Lesley-Ann Noel (Editor), Jennifer Rittner (Editor), Kelly Walters (Editor)
Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Critical and Emancipatory Design Thinking with Lesley-Ann Noel — DT101 E57
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Victor Udoewa works in the Office of Public Health Data Surveillance and Technology at the CDC. Previously, he worked at the Small Business Innovation Research and Small Business Technology Transfer programs at NASA, as well as at 18F and Google. We talk about his journey into design and leadership, the role of design in the civic space, radical participatory design, and orchestrating relationships in complex systems.
Listen to learn about:
>> Civic design and social impact design
>> Radical participatory design and working with the people and communities you’re serving
>> The effect of relationships on systems
>> The fallacy of problem solvingOur Guest
Victor Udoewa works in the Office of Public Health Data, Surveillance, and Technology (OPHDST) at the CDC. He previously served as CTO, CXO, and Service Design Lead of the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) and Small Business Technology Transfer (STTR) programs at NASA. He was the Director of Strategy at 18F, a civic consultancy for the federal government inside the federal government. He led the digital strategy practice and served as a designer and strategist on projects. Previously, as a Global Education Instructional Designer and Training Development Specialist at Google, he designed learning products and services for people in low-to-middle-income countries around the world.
Show Highlights
[01:07] Victor started out in aerospace engineering, building computer models.
[03:44] How one summer in El Salvador working on composting latrines changed everything.
[06:05] Wanting his work to make a positive difference.
[06:22] Becoming a science and technology policy advisor for the government.
[06:38] Moving to the UK and designing educational products and services focused around literacy.
[06:57] Coming back to government work as a civic designer and innovator.
[08:39] Civic design and designing for social impact.
[09:19] Much of the work of the U.S. government is done by contractors.
[10:11] Civic work has numerous challenges. You must be prepared for that struggle.
[12:30] Victor talks about finding and working with good people.
[15:02] Why Victor uses the term radical participatory design to describe what he does.
[16:19] The three main characteristics of the projects Victor works on.
[17:08] Why the choice of facilitator is so important.
[17:48] Professional designers can underestimate the skills and expertise of the community they are working with.
[18:57] The process Victor uses to help community members feel comfortable with leading and facilitating.
[21:45] Shifting from problem- and need-based methodologies to asset- and place-based methodologies.
[23:30] Victor talks about a community he’s working with to create a socially-equitable and racially-just Parent-Teacher Association.
[23:42] The Sustained Dialogue methodology.
[26:53] The correlation between poverty and the absence of healthy relationships.
[27:50] How Victor defines poverty.
[28:56] A Miro Moment.
[32:18] The effect of relationships on the design space and beyond.
[36:41] Viewing school as a service.
[40:16] Going beyond human needs.
[42:17] How might we create environments that facilitate learning well?
[44:39] Making a shift from student-centered to student-led.
[45:29] Building innovation and flexibility into institutions.
[47:24] “The end of solutions.”
[49:44] Solving is not “one and done,” especially when working with complex systems.
[52:50] Books and resources Victor recommends.
[58:01] Dawan talks about Victor’s article, Radical Participatory Design (link is below).
Links
Victor on LinkedIn
Victor on the Federation of American Scientists
Victor on ResearchGate
Victor on the Service Design Network
Control the Room: Victor Udoewa: Giving Up Power In Your Space
Guest Lecture - Dr Victor Udoewa - Participatory Design: A Digital Literacy Case Study | UMD iSchool
Relating Systems Thinking and Design
Association for Community Design – Chicago conference
Life Centered Design School
Radical Participatory Design: Awareness of Participation, by Victor UdoewaBook Recommendations
Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples, by Linda Tuhiwai Smith
Research Is Ceremony: Indigenous Research Methods, by Shawn Wilson
Thinking in Systems: A Primer, by Donella H. Meadows and Diana Wright
The Non-Human Persona Guide: How to create and use personas for nature and invisible humans to respect their needs during design, by Damien Lutz
My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies, by Resmaa Menakem
Designs for the Pluriverse: Radical Interdependence, Autonomy, and the Making of Worlds, by Arturo Escobar
Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Facilitation + Remote Teams + Miro with Shipra Kayan — DT101 E121
Collaboration + Facilitation + Workshops with Austin Govella — DT101 E83
Designing Facilitation: A System for Creating and Leading Exceptional Events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73
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Pinar Guvenc is a partner at the award-winning global design studio SOUR, where she leads design innovation strategy. Pinar is also a member of the faculty at Parsons School of Design, and she serves on the Board of Directors at Open Style Lab, a National Design Award-winning nonprofit organization initiated at MIT, with the purpose of making style accessible to people with disabilities. Today on the show, we talk about inclusive design, and making collaboration and co-creation meaningful.
Listen to learn about:
>> What it really means to collaborate
>> Inclusive design and designing for inclusivity
>> Teaching the next generation of designers
Our Guest
Pinar Guvenc is a Partner at SOUR — an award-winning global design studio with the mission to address social and urban problems — where she leads design innovation strategy. Prior to SOUR, Pinar co-founded various ventures where she helped set up and grow them through incubation, achieving international recognition and funding from innovation centers and accelerators such as Plug and Play and Climate KIC.
Pinar is a member of the faculty at Parsons School of Design, MS in Strategic Design and Management program, author and instructor of the "Inclusive Design" course at School of Visual Arts, and the author and facilitator of the workshop series "Strategic Collaborations" at Pratt Center for Community Development. She serves on the Board of Directors at Open Style Lab, a National Design Award-winning nonprofit organization initiated at MIT, with the purpose of making style accessible to people with disabilities.Pinar is a frequent public speaker and host of the podcast "What's Wrong With": a series of discussions with progress makers and experts to diagnose problems in industries, ideate solutions, and raise awareness among the general public.
Show Highlights
[02:25] Pinar’s design career began in industrial engineering and finance.
[02:57] Becoming an “accidental entrepreneur” and discovering design along the way.
[04:10] Pinar’s frustration with the word “collaboration.”
[05:43] Designing collaborations.
[06:50] What is collaboration?
[07:07] Start with the people, then move to process.
[10:17] Processes help us stay focused when things are rushed.
[11:02] Recognizing our biases and sharing power when collaborating.
[11:37] Fully integrating design into an organization.
[12:44] Storytelling is part of the design process.
[14:51] Our work leadership style needs a fundamental change.
[15:37] Adults need to create and learn, just like children.
[16:16] A Miro Moment.
[18:06] Knowing what you don’t know is an asset.
[20:49] How SOUR works inclusivity into the design team and project.
[22:12] Pinar gives a shout-out to David Dylan Thomas (DT101 Ep 112).
[22:19] Thomas’ Red Team-Blue Team exercise.
[22:41] SOUR’s Co-Creation Panel.
[23:51] “Design spies!” and just doing the work of co-creation.
[24:55] How Pinar brings inclusivity into her teaching.
[25:07] Guest lecturers and keeping it real.
[27:11] Inclusivity begins during the research stage.
[27:52] Generative AI is great for showing us our prejudices and biases.
[31:13] The importance of being better, active listeners.
[32:28] As designers, we always need to be mindful of our responsibility for what we’re putting out in the world.
Links
Pinar on LinkedIn
Pinar on The New School Parsons
SOUR
Open Style Lab
What’s Wrong With podcast
A SOUR Perspective on design
Bringing Design Closer: Understanding Architecture's role
in designing inclusive spaces
Book Recommendations
Design for Cognitive Bias, by David Dylan Thomas
Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Cognitive Bias + Ethics + Dreaming the Future of Design with David Dylan Thomas — DT101 E112
Designing Your Team + Teams in Design Education + Coaching Design Teams with Mary Sherwin and David Sherwin — DT101 E49
Designing Facilitation: A System for Creating and Leading Exceptional Events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73
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Justin is an internationally-renowned design leader, author and speaker from Chicago. You'll often find him at AIGA's speaking events, he’s been interviewed in Forbes magazine and Medium's "Forge" publication, and he writes articles for Aquent, CEO World Magazine, and A List Apart. He speaks internationally on culture and design, and today on the show, we talk about values, aligned design, nurturing teams, and design leadership.
Listen to learn about:
>> Discovering and leveraging our core values
>> Why humility is the most important trait for a designer
>> Building and nurturing teams
>> Justin’s latest book, In Fulfillment: The Designer’s JourneyOur Guest
Justin is an internationally renowned design leader, author, and speaker from Chicago. You'll find him often engaging with the AIGA's speaking events, interviewed in Forbes magazine and Medium's "Forge" publication, and penning articles for Aquent, CEO World Magazine, and A List Apart. He speaks internationally on culture and design, including keynotes at the UXPA International conference, Midwest UX, and St. Louis Design Week. Justin is also the writer of the celebrated book "Creative Culture," a former VP of Design at bswift (a CVS Health company), and the founder of design leadership consultancy Anomali.Show Highlights
[02:11] Justin’s design “Eureka!” moment in high school.
[03:12] The Art Institute of Chicago and teaching himself how to code.
[05:24] The most important part of being a designer.
[05:50] From Me to We.
[07:10] Justin talks about the writing of his latest book, In Fulfillment.
[08:02] Transitioning from hands-on fulfillment toward mentorship and leadership.
[09:46] Identifying the core set of values that lead us to feeling fulfilled.
[10:29] Humility and design.
[11:39] How Justin helps people find their core set of values.
[12:03] Using the Make Meaningful Work platform.
[12:55] What drives us to do what we want to be doing?
[14:04] Knowing our core values helps create a healthier work environment.
[14:55] Our core values are portable, no matter where we may work throughout our career and in any field.
[15:50] Why humility is the most important trait for a designer.
[17:25] Our energy pool is a finite resource.
[19:06] How an organization’s website implicitly shines a light on what they value.
[23:11] The best teams are diverse, inclusive teams.
[23:52] Dawan talks about empathy theater and taking the next steps beyond empathy.
[26:15] A Miro Moment.
[27:44] Justin talks about nurturing teams.
[28:15] Allowing for time to pause and connect within the workspace.
[29:06] Dawan talks about the benefits of not being 100% occupied 100% of the time.
[30:43] Supporting “real life” in our work environments.
[33:26] We need to adjust how we work and our expectations about the “right” way to work.
[34:57] Justin offers thoughts on how to make the hiring and onboarding process better.
[40:05] How to design and nurture a better work culture.
[42:22] Justine talks about some of the work being done by his company, Anomali by Design.[46:43] Justin offers some last words of advice for all of us about taking time to pause with intent.Links
Justin on Twitter
Justin on LinkedIn
Justin on Medium
Justin on Instagram
Anomali By Design
Anomali on Twitter
Practical Design Leadership podcast
The Essential Fusion of
Culture & Design with Justin Dauer
Make Meaningful WorkBook Recommendations
In Fulfillment: The Designer’s Journey, by Justin Dauer
Cultivating a Creative Culture, by Justin DauerOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Employee Experience by Design: How to Create an Effective EX for Competitive Advantage with Belinda Gannaway — DT101 E75
Designing Your Team + Teams in Design Education + Coaching Design Teams with Mary Sherwin and David Sherwin — DT101 E49 Healthcare Design Teams + Wellness + ScienceXDesign with Chris McCarthy — DT101 E24 -
Scott Shigeoka is an internationally-recognized curiosity expert, speaker, and the author of SEEK: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World. He is known for translating research into strategies that promote wellbeing and connected relationships around the globe, including at the University of California Berkeley's Greater Good Science Center and through his groundbreaking courses at the University of Texas at Austin. Today on the show, we’ll talk about Scott’s book and the power of curiosity.
Listen to learn about>> Why curiosity matters
>> Shallow vs. deep curiosity
>> Scott’s book, SEEK
>> Ways to cultivate and practice using your curiosity
>> The power of “I don’t know” and “Tell me more”
Our GuestScott Shigeoka is an internationally-recognized curiosity expert, speaker, and the author of SEEK: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World. He is known for translating research into strategies that promote positive well-being and connected relationships around the globe, including at the UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center and through his groundbreaking courses at the University of Texas at Austin. Scott implements his curiosity practices in the public sector, Fortune 500 companies, Hollywood, media organizations, education institutions, and small businesses.
Show Highlights[01:59] How Scott’s love of stories and storytelling brought him to where he is today.
[02:50] Majoring in journalism and psychology, and working in Iceland.
[04:20] Designing and storytelling at IDEO and in Hollywood.
[05:00] Scott’s response to the 2016 election and the polarization of America was a 13-month road trip around the country.
[07:29] What is curiosity?
[08:20] Shallow vs. deep curiosity.
[11:22] How Scott approached talking with people at Trump political rallies.
[13:44] The big lesson Scott learned during the road trip.
[15:42] Curiosity is listening.
[18:01] People want to feel that their stories, their lives, matter.
[18:52] Scott talks about predatory curiosity.
[21:36] What readers will find in Scott’s book, SEEK.
[22:16] Curiosity can help us bridge our differences.
[23:15] SEEK offers practical exercises and advice on how to exercise your curiosity.
[25:07] The world needs more curiosity.
[25:40] The four core “muscles” of deep curiosity.
[31:20] Working with the three cardinal directions of curiosity.
[34:40] A Miro Moment.
[36:45] Scott offers up one way we can all practice more curiosity.
[40:33] Challenge your assumptions.
[43:42] Practice intellectual humility. Don’t be afraid to admit you don’t know the answer.
[44:36] Effective leaders practice curiosity.
[45:29] Use “Tell me more…”
[48:15] Creating boundaries when it comes to practicing curiosity.
[52:08] Embracing discomfort.
[53:00] Curiosity is about understanding.
[55:12] Where to find out more about Scott and his work.
LinksScott on Twitter
Scott on LinkedIn
Scott on Instagram
Seek the Book
Perspectives in Design
Scott Shigeoka
Rural Assembly: Drawing Resilience: Scott Shigeoka
Hachette Interview with
Scott
Audium: Scott Shigeoka – Bridging Divides
Book RecommendationsSeek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World, by Scott Shigeoka
The Karma of Success: Spiritual Strategies to Free Your Inner Genius, by Liz TranOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Humble Design Leadership + Design Agency and Experience Design Evolution with Aleksandra Melnikova — DT101 E33
Three Little Words for Better (Business) Relationships // ALD 008 — Ep79
User Research + Asking Better Questions with Michele Ronsen — DT101 E88 -
Natalie Foley has over 20 years of experience leading teams in designing and launching new products, programs, and strategies across the private, public, and not-for-profit sectors. Recently, she joined Opportunity at Work, where she builds, tests, and launches new services to help rewire the labor market for the 71 million workers in America whose skills were acquired through alternative routes instead of a four-year degree. Today on the show, we catch up with Natalie, who was one of our first guests on the podcast, and talk about The Experimentation Field Book, which she co-authored with Jeanne Liedtka, Elizabeth Chen, and David Kester.
Listen to Learn About
>> Experimentation and iterative learning
>> The Experimentation Field Book
>> Why experiment? The benefits of experimentation
>> Opportunity@Work’s missionOur Guest
Natalie has 20+ years of experience leading teams in designing & launching new products, programs and strategies across the private, public & not-for-profit sectors. Recently, she has joined Opportunity@Work, where she builds, tests & launches new services for employers and employer networks to help rewire the labor market for the 71M workers in America who are STARs* (Skilled Through Alternative Routes, instead of a four-year degree). At Peer Insight, she served as CEO & led partnerships that contributed to dozens of new business ventures with clients like Nike, Kimberly-Clark, AARP, Canon, the Good Samaritan Society and ArcBest, several of which have become multi-million dollar revenue streams. Natalie began her career at PricewaterhouseCoopers and IBM, where she supported clients such as Allstate, the World Bank, and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) Afghanistan program in technology & strategy initiatives. She is the co-author of a forthcoming book (available soon for pre-order), The Experimentation Field Book: A Step-by-Step Project Guide.
Show Highlights
[03:02] Natalie offers gratitude for the DT101 podcast and the learning community it has fostered.
[03:42] Natalie catches us up since her 2018 podcast episode.
[04:03] Moving on from Peer Insight. [05:05] Taking a role at Opportunity@Work.
[05:26] More than 50% of the American workforce are STARs.
[08:12] Running experiments in one’s personal and professional life.
[09:13] How design thinking frees the learner.
[10:25] Why Natalie wrote The Experimentation Field Book.
[12:49] Natalie offers thoughts on moving out of one’s comfort zone and trying something new.
[16:59] The Experimentation Field Book will be available at booksellers November 24th.
[17:12] How Natalie met Jeanne Liedtka.
[17:50] Jeanne approached Natalie about Peer Insight’s “secret sauce.”
[18:31] Design thinking’s superpower.
[18:48] What’s missing from the design thinking methodology and how the book fills that gap.
[20:36] The book gives the reader step-by-step ways to run their own experiments.
[21:40] The baggage that can come along with the word experimentation.
[24:16] The first step is to frame a testable idea.
[28:23] Build like you’re right, and test like you’re wrong.
[31:20] A Miro Moment.
[33:32] Opportunity@Work is creating services to help broaden the hiring mindset from only equating degrees with skillsets to looking at other ways of determining someone’s ability to do the job.
[34:17] Four things intriguing Natalie about her current nonprofit work.
[34:48] We’re designing for a world that doesn’t exist yet.
[36:11] Looking at how non-profits receive funding.
[37:12] The ambiguity and attachment struggle in a non-profit world where people are very passionate about their mission.
[37:49] Dealing with the feelings associated with the word experimentation.
[38:44] The Experimentation Field Book is made for everyone, not just designers.
[40:56] The process in the book helps people to not become too attached to one idea.
[43:24] The book empowers anyone to put together and run an experiment on themselves or within their organization.Links
Natalie on LinkedIn Natalie on Twitter Opportunity at Work Using Design Thinking to Empower the ‘Human’ in HR 6 steps to knowing how to know | Natalie Foley | TEDxCharlottesville Design Thinking: Four Steps for Innovation Peer Insight
Book Recommendation
The Experimentation Field Book: A Step-by-Step Project Guide, by Jeanne Liedtka, Elizabeth Chen, Natalie Foley, and David Kester
Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Designing for the Greater Good, Strategy + Design Thinking, and Measuring Design Thinking with Jeanne Liedtka — DT101 E1 Leading a Design Thinking Consultancy, Betting Small to Win Big, and Driving Business Growth with Design Thinking with Natalie Foley — DT101 E5 Experiencing Design: The Innovator’s Journey with Karen Hold — DT101 E71
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Rob Lister is a designer in healthcare, creating meaningful experiences in many arenas, including medical device design, care delivery, service design, and population health strategy. His experience as a design leader at IDEO and AT&T, and his background as a mechanical engineer, inform a strategic and operationally focused approach to innovation in healthcare. We talk about service design in healthcare and using design thinking to innovate in the healthcare industry.
Listen to learn about:
>> The power of design thinking to rethink and reshape healthcare
>> Designing in complex systems
>> The unique challenges of designing within healthcare systems
>> Future Medical Systems’ workOur Guest
Rob Lister is a designer in health care, creating meaningful experiences in many arenas, including medical device design, care delivery service design, and population health strategy. His experience as a design leader at IDEO and AT&T — and his background as a mechanical engineer — inform a strategic and operationally-focused approach to innovation in health care. He has collaborated with organizations ranging from pharma/tech giants (Eli Lilly and 3M Health Care), care providers (Stanford Health Care and SCAN Health) to early-stage medtech startups (Tusker Medical and Arrinex).
Show Highlights
[02:17] Rob offers appreciation for the DT 101 podcast.
[02:44] Rob’s design Genesis story.
[03:42] Starting as a mechanical engineer.
[04:08] Getting to work at IDEO.
[04:56] Rob’s passion for the healthcare industry.
[05:32] Leading IDEO’s medical products team.
[06:51] Rob’s brief interlude as the Director of Design at AT&T.
[07:01] Co-founding Future Medical Systems.
[07:44] Using design thinking in the healthcare industry.
[09:04] Working with the nurses on medication safety practices at Lucile Packard Hospitals.
[10:36] Medication injury is a massive, systemic issue in healthcare.
[13:40] The role of communication in systems’ breakdowns.
[17:08] The designer’s blessing.
[18:35] The evolution of service design from product design.
[22:24] Design thinking’s effect on risk mitigation design.
[22:50] The importance of co-designing in service design.
[23:43] Prototyping in real time at the point of care.
[24:03] Rob’s three pillars of design thinking.
[24:56] Future Medical Systems’ “micro pilots.”
[25:53] Finding less risky ways of creating change within a system.
[27:24] Rob talks about one of his healthcare dream projects: what happens after discharge when patients go home?
[31:42] A Miro Moment.
[33:00] Dawan asks Rob to talk about some of his other dream projects.
[33:32] How do we find ways of better involving family members in a patient’s care?
[34:32] Creating better frameworks around patient informed consent.
[34:59] Involving nurses more in decision making.
[36:44] Rob offers gratitude for nurses.
[38:05] Where to learn more about Rob and his work, and advice from Rob for those who might want to get into designing for healthcare.Links
Rob on LinkedIn
Rob on Medium
Future Medical SystemsBook Recommendations
Discovery Design: Design Thinking for Healthcare Improvement, by Future Medical Systems and The Risk Authority
Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Healthcare Innovation + Nursing + Opportunities for Designers — DT101 E109
A Designer's Journey into Designing for Health and Healthcare with Lorna Ross — DT101 E45
Designing Health Systems + Creating Effective Design Workshops with Sean Molloy — DT101 E44 -
Shipra Kayan is a product evangelist at Miro, a designer, and a facilitator. She has built inclusive, engaged, and effective distributed teams at companies like Upwork and Miro. Armed with two decades of experience teaching design teams to collaborate across time zones, cultures, and knowledge silos, Shipra is a leading advocate for adopting visual collaboration within distributed teams. We talk about facilitation, Miro, and remote teams.
Listen to learn about:
>> How to help remote teams be successful
>> The importance of facilitation
>> The many ways Miro can help teams, remote or in-person, to collaborate and achieve better outcomesOur Guest
Shipra Kayan is an entrepreneur and designer dedicated to transforming the way we work together as a global community. Based on her core belief that every human is inherently valuable and capable, Shipra’s vision is to create a world where two people of any cultural or geographic origin can come together to collaborate and build.
Show Highlights
[02:04] Starting out as a designer in Silicon Valley and discovering Miro.
[05:27] Being one of Miro’s first customers.
[05:40] Proving the belief that design can only be done in person wrong.
[06:26] Miro is a collaborative canvas.
[06:49] Figuring out what remote teams needed to succeed.
[08:33] How Shipra plans meetings and workshops using Miro.
[09:24] Tips from Shipra to help participants stay focused on the work.
[13:14] Asking participants: how might we fail?
[15:00] Getting teams to be playful and take risks.
[16:25] One game Shipra likes to use to get a team’s creative juices flowing.
[18:26] The challenge of virtual environments compared to physical ones.
[19:50] Ways Shipra is bringing more physicality to the virtual environment.
[23:25] Dawan and Shipra discuss how they are always finding new ways to use Miro.
[28:34] A Miro Moment.
[30:09] Shipra has seen a movement within the design community of designers wanting to improve their facilitation skills.
[32:36] Dawan would like to see tools like Miro in greater use throughout higher education.
[34:19] Miro is just as useful for face-to-face work as well.
[37:19] Dawan and Shipra talk about designing an event from the outcome you want at the end.
[40:28] Shipra’s advice to other designers.Links
Shipra on LinkedIn
Shipra on Twitter
Shipra on Medium
Shipra’s Appreciation Circle in Miro
What I've learned from facilitating over 100 remote collaborative workshops
Drawing Session in Miro
Bridging the Talent Gap Between Silicon Valley and East Africa Through UX
3 strategies any leader can use to spot and move past groupthink
Interview with Shipra on Rosenfeld Media
Design Hires Interviews Shipra KayanOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Teams, Sprints, Prototyping, and Better Meetings with Douglas Ferguson — DT101 E59
Collaboration + Facilitation + Workshops with Austin Govella — DT101 E83
Designing Facilitation: A System for Creating and Leading Exceptional Events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73 -
Sheryl Cababa drives a human-centered design practice focusing on systems thinking and evidence-based design, working on everything from robotic surgery experience design to reimagining K-12 education through service design. In her work with consultancies such as Substantial, Frog, and Adaptive Path, she has worked with a diverse base of clients including the Gates Foundation, Microsoft, IHME, and IKEA. Sheryl is an international speaker and workshop facilitator. When not in the office, she can be found at the University of Washington, helping educate the next generation of human centered design and engineering students.
Listen to learn about:
>> Equity-centered design
>> Systems thinking and designing in complex systems
>> Co-creation and working with lived experts
>> Sheryl’s book, Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for DesignersOur Guest
Sheryl Cababa is the Chief Design Officer at the Insights Design + Development Studio, Substantial, and a multi-disciplinary design strategist with more than two decades of experience. She is focused on reinventing the approaches of learning and collaboration in today’s educational environment to help equity-centered research affirm and advance relationships between institutions, educators, and students.
Sheryl has worked extensively in human-centered design within the social impact space. She specializes in developing tools and methods for designers to expand their mindsets beyond user-centered design, anticipate unintended consequences, and engage in systems thinking.
Her recent work with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation includes leading student voice research to inform the K-12 Balance The Equation Grand Challenge. Sheryl works with their teams to provide equity-centered technical assistance to their grantees, designing the Use Case Guide for demand-side thinking programs, and conducting extensive design research with both U.S. Programs and Global Health teams. Her book, Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers, was released in early 2023.
Show Highlights
[02:36] Sheryl’s degrees are in political science and journalism, not design.
[02:46] Getting into design by creating infographics and websites.
[03:20] Turning an intern job at the Seattle Times into a job at Microsoft.
[03:54] Sheryl’s official entry into design was as a product designer.
[04:56] Becoming a design consultant while living in the Netherlands.
[05:33] Shifting more into design strategy over design execution.
[06:03] Why Sheryl started integrating systems thinking methods into her work.
[07:19] Sheryl’s current work in equity-centered design.
[08:52] What is equity-centered design?
[09:58] Design is an act of power.
[10:51] Equity-centered design is about designing with, not for.
[12:03] The problem with personas.
[14:28] Going beyond personas.
[17:50] “When I was in college…” and the biases we tend to start from.
[18:54] Co-creation, and letting people speak for themselves during the design process.
[20:43] Thinking about legacy systems and designing in complex systems.
[23:12] There aren’t really any “broken” systems.
[24:10] You can’t sit down and just design a system.
[24:38] When we “design” for a system, we are intervening in order to shift outcomes in a different direction.
[26:25] Thinking about potential harm and harm reduction during the design process.
[27:18] There is no silver bullet solution.
[30:34] Re-examining solutions to see if they are still working as time goes on.
[31:23] Looking at generative AI from a systems perspective.
[34:24] A Miro Moment.
[36:39] Sheryl’s book, Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers gives designers tools and frameworks to better understand systems.
[37:49] Encouraging designers to think intentionally about how things interconnect.
[38:15] Viewing the system as a whole ecosystem that surrounds your design.
[41:28] Sheryl talks about one of her favorite frameworks from the book.
[45:28] Sheryl introduces the concept of “lived experts.”
[46:25] Shifting mindsets leads to different outcomes.
[49:35] Dawan’s post-interview thoughts about systems.Links
Sheryl on LinkedIn
Sheryl on Twitter
Sheryl on Medium
Sheryl on UW Human Centered Design & Engineering
Sheryl on Women Talk Design
This is Design School: Ep 33 – Sheryl Cababa on Unintended Consequences
The Product Design Podcast: Sheryl Cababa – Systems Thinking for Designers
Content Strategy Insights: Closing the Loop - Systems Thinking for Designers | Episode 141
UX Podcast: #308 Systems thinking with Sheryl Cababa
Substantial
Substantial on Instagram
National Equity Project: Liberatory Design
The Donella Meadows ProjectBook Recommendations
Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers, by Sheryl Cababa
The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization, by Peter SengeOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Adding System Awareness to System Design to Your Innovation Stack with Julie Guinn — DT101 E43
Design Council UK + Systemic Design + Design in Government with Cat Drew — DT101 E78
5.5 Things Every Designer Should Know About Hacking Bureaucracy with Marina Nitze — DT101 E106 -
Kip Lee is a designer and healthcare executive at University Hospitals Health System in Cleveland, OH. As Vice President of UH Ventures, he manages an innovation portfolio that supports University Hospitals’ strategic initiatives and partnerships through product innovation and human-centered design. Outside of work, Kip serves on the editorial board of Design Issues, a design and innovation journal published by MIT Press. He also serves on several nonprofit boards. We talk about systems and design in healthcare.
Listen to learn about:
>> Complex systems
>> Design in healthcare
>> What is the role of management?
>> The COVID-19 pandemic’s effect on healthcare innovation
>> The interplay between design and managementOur Guest
Kipum (Kip) Lee, PhD is a designer and healthcare executive at University Hospitals Health System in Cleveland, OH. As Vice President of UH Ventures, he manages an innovation portfolio that supports University Hospitals’ strategic initiatives and partnerships through product innovation and human-centered design. Outside of work, he serves as an editor of Design Issues, the premier journal on design history, theory, criticism, and practice published by MIT Press, and on several non-profit boards. In addition to playing with his two kids, Kip loves used hardcover books, freshly ground coffee, low-humidity weather, and a good conversation.
Show Highlights
[01:26] Kip’s journey into design began with a love of drawing and visualization at a very early age.
[02:36] Experiencing the New Jersey Governor’s School of the Arts during high school.
[04:11] Kip talks about cultural expectations and how that affected his choices as he entered university.
[05:09] Why Kip chose bioengineering as an undergrad.
[06:20] A brief time in architecture as a graduate student.
[07:47] Carnegie Mellon’s interaction design program.
[08:27] Kip’s revelation while attending the U.S.’s first ever service design conference.
[09:40] The course that made Kip fall in love with learning again.
[10:41] How Kip’s studies in architecture and bioengineering have come full circle in his current work in healthcare.
[13:51] Designing in complex systems.
[14:00] Kip uses the military and warfare as another example of a complex system.
[15:38] Looking at healthcare as a complex system.
[16:54] Kip offers a pre-pandemic example of the challenges that arose in implementing a new technology.
[18:26] Difficulties that can arise with terminology and in how language is used.
[19:21] Vaccine hesitancy vs. vaccine readiness.
[21:48] Complex systems are multidimensional, and aesthetics is often just as important as the technical.
[23:02] Kip offers an example using PPE/masks during the pandemic to show why aesthetics matters.
[26:06] The complexities involved in shaping and influencing people’s behaviors and choices
[31:16] Dawan brings up the idea of shifting management more into performance facilitation rather than control.
[32:43] A Miro Moment.
[34:01] Kip likes Henry Mintzberg’s idea of management as “controlled chaos,” maintaining the balance between exploration, freedom, and a sense of order.
[35:43] The need for c-suite execs to stay grounded in the actual front line work of the organization.
[36:46] Designers as rebels.
[37:05] Kip talks about parallel developments in both design and management.
[38:43] What can designers learn from management?
[41:33] How the pandemic helped healthcare innovation.
[42:55] Good designers and good managers both work to create the environment where healthy and exciting interactions and projects can take place.
[44:46] Service design’s uniqueness as a discipline.
[47:09] The desire to serve is an essential aspect of what it means to be a designer.
[47:39] Bruno Latour’s benefits of design.
[49:03] Many things that are aspects of design are also aspects of management.
[51:10] Designers and managers are often doing the same work.
[51:37] Dawan talks about shifting from “solutions” to “responses.”
[54:28] Systems have histories and memories.
[57:14] Kip offers thoughts and advice for others who want to apply their design skills in the healthcare industry.
[01:04:15] Kip’s last words about the design field as a whole.Links
Kip on Twitter
Kip on LinkedIn
Kip on Google Scholar
Kip on University Hospitals Ventures
Kip on ResearchGate
TEDx CLE, Master Builders for the 21st Century
Critique of Design Thinking in Organizations: Strongholds and Shortcomings of the Making Paradigm
Hack from Home | Discovering Problems in Our Dwelling Place: A Design Thinking Approach
Architekton
Designing for Value in Specialty Referrals: A New Framework for Eliminating Defects and Wicked Problems, by Patrick Runnels, Heather Wobbe, Kipum Lee, Randy Jernejcic, and Peter PronovostBook Recommendations
Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World, by General Stanley McChrystal, Tantum Collins, David Silverman, and Chris Fussell
The Systems Approach and Its Enemies, by C. West Churchman
The Reflective Practitioner: How Professionals Think In Action, by Donald Schön
A Cautious Prometheus? A Few Steps Toward a Philosophy of Design (with Special Attention to Peter Sloterdijk), keynote lecture from Bruno LatourOther Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like
Healthcare Innovation + Nursing + Opportunities for Designers — DT101 E109
A Designer's Journey into Designing for Health and Healthcare with Lorna Ross — DT101 E45
Service Design in Healthcare Inside Multiple Business Contexts with Jessica Dugan — DT101 E22 - Montre plus
