Episodes
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Author, founder, and CEO Barry LaBov joined me on Ditching Hourly to geek out about niching down - while walking me through the five-step process he describes in his book The Power of Differentiation.
Barry's Bio:
Barry LaBov is the founder and CEO of LABOV Marketing Communications and Training. He is a two-time Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year recipient and an inductee into the Entrepreneur of the Year Hall of Fame. He is also a Better Business Bureau Torch Awards for Ethics recipient. Under his leadership, LABOV Marketing Communications and Training has received the Indiana Growth 100 Award six times, was named Small Business of the Year and recognized as one of the Best Places to Work in Indiana. Additionally, LABOVâs client work has been honored with nearly 100 national and regional awards.
Barry's links:
The Power of DifferentiationBarry's biz websiteBarry's personal siteBarry's LinkedIn----
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Guest Russ Waddell joined me on Ditching Hourly to explain how he successfully went out on his own for the first time after more than a decade as a full-time employee.
Guest Links:
https://www.russwaddell.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/russell-waddell/----
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Episodes manquant?
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Zach Stevens, co-founder of Conversion Factory, came back on Ditching Hourly to give an update about how things are going with his âall-you-can-eatâ subscription-based service business after two years in business.
Zach's Links
Conversion FactoryZach's LinkedInZach's TwitterOther Links
MicroConfTiny SeedFreePikVisual ElectricSomewhere----
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Author of Ditch The Billable Hour!, Shaun Jardine, joined me on Ditching Hourly to explain how he transitioned his 240-person law firm off the billable hour.
Shaun's Links
Shaun's BookShaun's WebsiteShaun's LinkedInShaun's TwitterThe book Shaun mentioned: Our Iceberg Is Melting by John Kotter----
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The author of No Bullsh*t Strategy and founder of Basic Arts, Alex M H Smith, joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss what business strategy is, why it matters, and how to get started.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background03:00 Defining Strategy and the Importance of Unique Value07:53 Trade-Offs: Creating Space for Unique Value13:36 Strategy vs. Being Better than the Competition19:26 Applying Strategy at Different Levels33:32 Creating Unique Value: Double Down on Your Strengths36:22 The Role of Strategy in Motivating Action49:22 Using LinkedIn as a Marketing Tool for Service-Based Businesses56:18 Sharing Your Unique Point of View through Writing and Speaking01:00:26 The Importance of Marketing and Innovation in BusinessAlex's Links:
Alex on LinkedInBasic Arts WebsiteNo Bullsh*t Strategy BookAI-Generated Notes:
In this conversation, Jonathan and Alex discuss the concept of strategy and how it applies to businesses. They explore the importance of delivering unique value and finding a white space in the market.
Alex emphasizes that strategy is not about being better than the competition but about offering something different and making trade-offs.
They also touch on the relationship between strategy and positioning and how strategy can be applied at different levels, from businesses to individual employees.
In this conversation, Jonathan and Alex discuss the importance of creating unique value in business.
They explore how companies like Southwest Airlines and Domino's Pizza have successfully differentiated themselves by removing certain aspects of their industry and focusing on their strengths.
They emphasize the need to identify what sets you apart and double down on those strengths.
They also discuss the role of strategy, marketing, and innovation in creating unique value.
Alex shares his insights on strategy and how it is half about deciding what to do and half about motivating people to do it.
They also touch on the importance of LinkedIn as a marketing tool for solopreneurs and service-based businesses.
Takeaways
Strategy is about delivering unique value and finding a white space in the market.Being better than the competition is not a strategy; it's important to offer something different.Trade-offs are necessary to create space for unique value.Strategy can be applied at different levels, from businesses to individual employees. To create unique value, identify what sets you apart and double down on your strengths.Strategy is half about deciding what to do and half about motivating people to do it.Sound Bites
"Strategy is the unique value that your business puts out there into the world.""Better equals the same. Better simply means we do the same as everyone else, but a little bit more.""Strategy is when you draw a circle around everything and you have a set blueprint that tells you what to do with the product, what to do with the distribution, what to do with the marketing.""They pulled away every single thing that is necessary to serve business customers adequately, which no one would ever do because business customers are the most lucrative type of customer.""Look around at your competitors and pick the things that you're not that good at anyway and just stop doing them. Double down on the things that are already your superpower.""Strategy is half about deciding what you're going to do and half about motivating people to do it."----
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LinkedIn Ghostwriter Pranav Kale joined me on Ditching Hourly to do a reverse interview about what I've learned during my recent experiment of posting daily on LinkedIn.
Pranavâs Links:
Website: https://www.pranavkale.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pranavkale120/----
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Matt Kerbis, also known as the Subscription Attorney, joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his novel approach to ditching hourly billing in the legal space with a subscription model.
Matt's bio from his website:
âMy name is Mathew Kerbis, Iâm The Subscription Attorney, and I believe subscriptions can help bridge the access to justice gap and incentivize attorneys to modernize and scale their practice like never before.âMatt's links:
Website:
https://www.lawsubscribed.com/aboutLinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerbisverse/Substack:
https://substack.com/@lawsubscribedThe Law For Kids Podcast:
https://www.lawforkidspodcast.com/AI-Generated Info:
SummaryIn this conversation, Jonathan Stark interviews Matt Kerbis, also known as the Subscription Attorney, about his novel approach to ditching hourly billing in the legal space with a subscription model. Matt explains how he offers affordable and accessible legal services through different subscription tiers based on the client's needs. He discusses the pricing structure, the scope of services provided, and the use of automation tools to streamline his practice. Matt also addresses the challenges and benefits of implementing a subscription model in the legal industry. Mathew Kerbis discusses his unique subscription-based law firm model and the client experience. He explains that while his model is one of a kind, there are other attorneys using the subscription model in different ways. Mathew highlights the importance of educating clients about the subscription model and the client portal. He also discusses the challenges of marketing a new business model and the slow process of building traction. Mathew emphasizes the value of problem avoidance and the benefits of being a generalist in the legal space. He advises those interested in experimenting with subscription models to start narrow and go broad.
Takeaways
Matt Kerbis offers affordable and accessible legal services through a subscription model.The pricing structure includes different tiers based on the client's needs, with options for individuals, freelancers, and business owners.Matt uses automation tools and no-code solutions to streamline his practice and deliver services efficiently.Churn is a key consideration in the subscription model, and Matt focuses on delighting his clients to reduce churn and increase client satisfaction.While a pure subscription model may not work for all legal services, a hybrid approach combining subscriptions and alternative fee-based pricing can be effective. Mathew Kerbis has a unique subscription-based law firm model that is one of a kind.Educating clients about the subscription model and the client portal is crucial for their understanding and comfort.Marketing a new business model can be challenging, especially in the legal space.Building traction and gaining clients takes time and persistence.Problem avoidance is a valuable selling point, and being a generalist can be advantageous in the legal industry.For those interested in experimenting with subscription models, starting narrow and going broad is a recommended approach.Sound Bites
"I'm the subscription attorney because I was sick and tired of billing time as an attorney."âMK"My whole goal was accessibility while also still trying to be profitable."âMK"People don't like talking to their lawyer. They have better things to do in their life."âMK"There are probably hundreds of attorneys using the subscription model in some way."âMK"I make it really easy to schedule a âno legal adviceâ, 15-minute introductory call with me."âMK----
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Ben Zettler, owner and founder of Zettler Digital, joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss pricing tactics for agencies.
Ben's Links:
Zettler DigitalBen's LinkedInAI-Generated Stuff:
SUMMARY
Ben Zettler, owner and founder of Zettler Digital, joins Jonathan Stark to discuss value pricing for agencies. Ben shares his background in sports and how he transitioned into building his agency. They discuss the initial conversations with potential clients, the importance of understanding their needs and goals, and how to convert those conversations into proposals. Ben also talks about the value of offering free work, conducting audits, and providing strategy sessions to build trust with clients. They explore the use of data to quantify the potential impact of their services and the challenges of pricing for smaller businesses. Ben Zettler discusses the ideal clients for his agency and the different options he offers them. He emphasizes the importance of working with decision-makers and the challenges of communicating value in proposals. Ben also talks about the shift in his business from project-oriented work to retained services. He shares his experience with client churn and the need to constantly find new opportunities. Ben provides insights into pricing and the difficulties of structuring fees for ongoing services. He concludes by highlighting the value of LinkedIn for marketing and networking.
TAKEAWAYS
Understanding the client's needs and goals is crucial in creating a proposal for value pricing.Offering free work, such as audits and strategy sessions, can help build trust with potential clients.Quantifying the potential impact of services using data can help justify pricing.Smaller businesses may be more hesitant to share revenue information, but it is important to understand the potential impact of services.The market has shifted towards longer decision timelines and more evaluation of service providers. Working with decision-makers is ideal in most situations, regardless of the size of the business.Communicating value in proposals can be challenging, especially when clients compare prices to other services.Shifting from project-oriented work to retained services can provide stability and consistent revenue.Client churn is inevitable, so it's important to constantly find new opportunities and maintain a marketing engine.Pricing ongoing services can be difficult, and it's important to consider the value provided and the client's budget.LinkedIn is a valuable platform for marketing and networking in the services industry.CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background08:14 Offering Free Work to Build Trust17:17 Converting Conversations into Proposals23:03 Quantifying the Potential Impact of Services27:26 Challenges of Pricing for Smaller Businesses31:07 The Shifting Market for Service Providers35:44 Shifting to Retained Services41:15 Dealing with Client Churn46:19 Pricing Ongoing Services53:11 Leveraging LinkedIn----
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Strategic lawyer and IP expert Erin Austin joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about the intersection of plagiarism, copyright infringement, and generative AI.
Erin's Bio
A graduate of Harvard Law School, Erin Austin is a strategic lawyer and consultant who uses her 25+ years of practicing law, including roles as COO and general counsel at large and small IP-driven companies, including Warner Brothers, Lionsgate (formerly known as Artisan), MGM, Teaching Strategies, and M3 USA Corp, to help female founders of expertise-based firms build and protect saleable assets so that the business is ready to sell when the founder is ready to exit.
Erin's Links
https://www.thinkbeyondip.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/AI-Generated Stuff
Summary
In this conversation, Jonathan Stark and Erin Austin discuss the legal and ethical issues surrounding AI. They explore the difference between plagiarism and copyright infringement, the ethical obligations of giving credit, and the copyright protection of AI-generated content. They also touch on the parallel between AI and ghostwriters, the copyright situation with reference materials like encyclopedias, and the challenge of tracing ideas back to their original source. The conversation explores the impact of digital technology on copyright and intellectual property. They discuss the ease of copying and plagiarism in the digital age, the potential for copyright infringement with AI-generated content, and the importance of copyright registration. They also touch on the challenges of compensating creators in the age of AI and the potential for job disruption. Overall, they express optimism about the benefits of AI while acknowledging the need for responsible use.
Takeaways
Plagiarism is the ethical breach of stealing someone else's ideas, while copyright infringement is the legal issue of using someone's protected work without permission.AI-generated content is not eligible for copyright protection because it is not created by a human, but there are gradations of AI involvement that can still receive protection.There is little ethical breach in not crediting AI for its output, as AI is not the creator of ideas, and the output is often not considered thought leadership.When using AI-generated content, it is important to ensure that it does not infringe on someone else's copyright and to add a layer of creativity if you want to be eligible for copyright protection.The copyright situation with AI is complex and depends on factors such as the level of AI involvement, the nature of the work, and the agreements in place.Tracing ideas back to their original source can be challenging, and the expression of ideas is what is protected by copyright law, not the ideas themselves. The digital nature of content makes it easier to copy and plagiarize, leading to copyright infringement.Copyright registration is important to protect intellectual property rights and provide evidence of ownership.AI-generated content raises questions about compensating creators and the need for new licensing models.Job disruption is a concern with the rise of AI, but a slow transition may allow for adaptation and new opportunities.Responsible use of AI is crucial to avoid ethical and legal issues.Sound Bites
"We do not have ethical obligations to AI. It is not the creator of any ideas.""Are we getting something that would be considered thought leadership? And my experience is that we aren't.""AI-generated content is not eligible for copyright protection because US copyright law requires that the original content be created by a human.""I assume there's some sort of AI, something that can change it for them.""You can kind of be copyrighted out of your own stuff.""When there are billions of data points out there, how are you going to compensate all the people who may have rights in the data sets?"Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background05:01 Ethical Obligations of Giving Credit to AI09:46 Copyright Protection of AI-Generated Content20:50 Copyright Situation with Reference Materials27:50 Challenge of Tracing Ideas Back to Their Source30:50 Introduction and Digital Nature of Content36:10 Copyright Infringement and Remixing in Music39:26 Compensating Creators and Copyright Ownership41:12 Ownership of User-Generated Content on Platforms44:41 AI's Collection of Data and Privacy Concerns48:23 Optimism about AI and Responsible Use51:10 Job Disruption and Transition with AI53:45 Conclusion and Where to Find More Information----
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Co-founder and Head of Design at Under, Eden Vidal, joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about productizing design sprints, optimizing your business to suit your personality, and convincing contractors to ditch hourly billing.
Eden's Links:
https://edenvidal.com/https://weareunder.design/https://www.linkedin.com/in/edenvidal/AI Summary:
Eden Vidal, a designer and developer, shares his success with value-based concepts for his design studio. He specializes in brand sprints, a niche methodology for running branding processes for young technology companies. The brand sprint focuses on creating a brand story and developing a visual language, primarily for the homepage of a website. Eden emphasizes the importance of speed and delivering quick and fancy results for startups. The ideal clients for brand sprints are funded startups that already have some branding but feel a mismatch and a need for a quick and premium solution. Eden discusses his approach to managing his time between brand sprints and his own creative projects. He explains that while his wife focuses on optimizing brand sprints, he wants to pursue more and work on his own entrepreneurial ventures. They also discuss the challenges of transitioning from hourly contracts to fixed-price projects and the importance of clear communication and expectations. Eden shares his experience of hiring contractors and the benefits of focusing on delivering results rather than selling time. They also explore the idea of creating a platform that simplifies the process of defining project requirements and finding the right freelancers.Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background06:22 The 10-Day Brand Sprint Process08:38 Ideal Clients for Brand Sprints29:16 Balancing Brand Sprints and Personal Creative Projects37:36 Transitioning from Hourly Contracts to Fixed-Price Projects42:18 The Benefits of Delivering Results Instead of Selling Time53:01 Simplifying the Freelancer Hiring Process with a Platform----
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Sam Browne, lifestyle entrepreneur and LinkedIn expert with more than 100k followers joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his insights on growing your audience on LinkedIn.
Samâs Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-browne/Gumroad: https://sambrowne.gumroad.com/Takeaways
Know what you want to be known for on LinkedIn and focus on educational content to build authority.Map out a series of questions to answer in your content and use case studies and testimonials to showcase the value of your work.Engage with comments on your own posts and on other peopleâs posts to build relationships and expand your network.Frequency of posting is flexible, but consistency is key. Replying to comments on LinkedIn posts is important, especially for thoughtful and insightful comments.Engaging with other creatorsâ posts can help expand your reach and build relationships.Using carousels and images in posts can increase visibility and engagement.Avoid including links in posts to maximize reach, but consider using them in comments to drive traffic and build relationships.Engaging with comments can lead to valuable insights and growth opportunities.Sound Bites
âPick the thing that is going to be the most effective for you to monetize.ââCase studies are a great way to show the value of working with you.ââPost with whatever frequency is comfortable for you, ideally no less than once a week.ââI always try and repay people who take the time to comment on my posts.ââYou donât need that many people who are showing up and enjoying your posts every time you post to create real momentum on LinkedIn.ââA post can take on a new life like six hours later, eight, eight, 10 hours later.âChapters
00:00 Introduction and Background07:29 Setting Up Your Profile for Success24:00 Showcasing the Value of Your Work28:13 Engaging with Comments and Frequency of Posting30:34 Engaging with Other Creatorsâ Posts for Reach and Relationships36:28 Using Carousels and Images to Increase Visibility45:29 Maximizing Reach by Avoiding Links in Posts48:34 Driving Engagement and Building Relationships through Comments----
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Long-time friend-of-the-show Kevin Freidberg joined me on Ditching Hourly to share how he helps freelancers and consultants create effective websites by starting with email conversations.
Kevin's Links:
https://marketyourselffirst.com/AI-Generated Info:
Summary
Kevin Friedberg shares his approach to helping freelancers and consultants create effective websites by starting with email conversations. He suggests that instead of focusing on building a website, which can be overwhelming and time-consuming, freelancers should start by writing emails that address the problems their clients are facing. These emails can serve as the foundation for a content solar system and can eventually be repurposed for a website. Kevin also shares his strategy for growing an email list using LinkedIn, where he sends personalized messages to potential subscribers. Overall, his approach emphasizes the importance of one-on-one conversations and providing value to potential clients.
Takeaways
- Instead of starting with a website, freelancers and consultants can begin by writing emails that address the problems their clients are facing.
- These emails can serve as the foundation for a content solar system and can eventually be repurposed for a website.
- LinkedIn can be a valuable platform for growing an email list by sending personalized messages to potential subscribers.
- The key to success is providing value and engaging in one-on-one conversations with potential clients.Sound Bites
"A website, it's not a one-on-one conversation. An email is.""You'll have this conversation with someone, and they go off... they like brain dump about the problems that they solve for their clients. And it's gold. It's great.""I'm obsessed with the very idea of a one-on-one conversation. I just don't understand how else to do it."
00:00 Introduction and Pain Points03:05 Starting with Email Conversations13:10 Using LinkedIn to Grow Your Email List25:31 Transitioning from Emails to Websites28:31 Conclusion and Next Steps
Chapters----
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Residential architect Jason Comer joined me on Ditching Hourly to brainstorm how he might migrate from commodity labor to productized leverage with his expertise in home design. Even if you're not an architect, I think you'll find the discussion useful.
Jasonâs Website:
https://www.jasoncomerarchitect.com/
----
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WP Engine founder Jason Cohen joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about why AI is different from other big tech advancements. We also discussed why niching down in a single ideal customer profile will bring you 10x more customers than you expect and how a regular writing practice makes the world a better place (and maybe even builds a legacy).
Jasonâs Links:
A Smart BearAI is DifferentSelling to CarolWP EngineTwitter----
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Corey Quinn joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his excellent new book, âAnyone, Not Everyone.â In it, Corey shares insights on deep specialization, selecting a target vertical market, and using gifts like cookies to transform outbound marketing.
Corey's Links:
Anyone, Not Everyone by Corey QuinnDeep Specialization podcast by Corey QuinnCorey's Website
0:00 - Episode intro
0:17 - About Corey Quinn and his background
1:30 - Corey's ideal client: agency founders doing $1-5M and looking to specialize
3:07 - Benefits of specializing in a vertical market vs. skillset
5:17 - How to define a vertical market
7:19 - Detecting traction in a potential vertical to specialize in
11:33 - Identifying a vertical market that's the right size (2,000-10,000 businesses)
15:25 - How specializing enables you to speak your target market's language
17:35 - Creating a "point of view" to differentiate beyond just positioning
22:33 - Shifting from founder-led sales through deep specialization
25:09 - Using gifting (like cookies) to transform outbound marketing
30:42 - Creating an ongoing gifting campaign, not just a one-time gift
32:21 - Reaching your target market in multiple channels beyond just gifting
37:46 - The multi-million dollar cookie budget that drove Scorpion's growth
41:17 - Adapting this approach for smaller shops through focus and consistency
45:01 - Advice for soloists: specialize, do thought leadership, focus on dream clients
48:54 - Consistently engaging with a target industry year after year to build trust
50:34 - Where to find Corey's book and other free resources----
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Geraldine Carter and I swapped interviews about why niching down doesn't lead to boredom.
Geraldine's Links:
Geraldine's websiteGeraldine's newsletterGeraldine's podcast----
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Tim Dietrich and Eric Grubaugh invited me to join them on SuiteScript Stories to talk about the pros and cons of a platform specialization, the paradox of positioning, and, of course, the horrors of hourly billing.
Tim and Eric were kind enough to let me post the interview here on Ditching Hourly, but if you're a NetSuite developer, you should check out their podcast at https://suitescriptstories.com/
We discuss:
Jonathan's and Tim's shared history in the FileMaker Pro spaceJonathan's AHA moment when he realized hourly billing was killing his businessThe misaligned financial incentives created by hourly billingHow specializing in a narrower target market amplifies your opportunitiesThe various forms of specialization: Vertical, Horizontal, PlatformThe obstacles an agency faces when trying to specialize----
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Indie game consultant Joe Quadara (aka Joe Q) joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his journey from putting out fires for indie game studios to advising them to accurately scope and fund their projects.
Joe's Links:
Joe's website: RecurverJoe on LinkedInAI Summary:
In this episode, game developer turned consultant Joe Quidara shares his journey from putting out fires for game studios to helping studios accurately scope and fund their projects. He explains how developing deep expertise about the indie game industry allows him to quickly assess and advise studios, creating leverage in his consulting business.
Chapters:
[00:00:00] Introductions
[00:07:00] The size of the video game market
[00:10:00] What is indie game consulting?
[00:14:00] The appeal of weird, indie games
[00:19:00] What an indie game studio looks like
[00:23:00] From firefighting to preventing fires in game studios
[00:28:00] Helping studios accurately scope and fund projects
[00:32:00] Creating a sustainable indie game studio model
[00:35:00] Leveraging expertise to streamline the consulting process
[00:41:00] The benefits of specialization for consultants
[00:46:00] Keeping an open mind while leveraging expertise
[00:48:00] Conclusion
----
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Bryghtpath CEO and Ditcherville lifetime resident Bryan Strawser joined me on Ditching Hourly to share the secrets behind his huge business wins in 2023.
Bryan's Links:
Website: https://bryghtpath.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BryghtpathPodcast: https://bryghtpath.com/resources/managing-uncertainty-podcast/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanstrawser/Summary (ai generated):
In this episode of Ditching Hourly, Jonathan Stark interviews Bryan Strausser of BrightPath about how positioning his consulting firm and using program evaluation "roadmaps" as a first engagement with clients has led to major growth and 7-figure revenue. They discuss Bryan's journey from generalist consultant to focused niche positioning, using content marketing and authority building to attract ideal clients, the roadmapping process to diagnose client needs before prescribing solutions, how to price and sell high-value services, and building ongoing managed services for recurring revenue.
Chapters:
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:02:00] From generalist to focused positioning
[00:08:00] Attracting clients through content marketing
[00:13:00] Client onboarding with program evaluation roadmaps
[00:21:00] Using the podcast to build authority
[00:25:00] The importance of positioning
[00:28:00] Pricing and selling high-value services
[00:36:00] The roadmapping sales process
[00:44:00] Writing effective proposals
[00:51:00] Increasing profits through pricing
[00:53:00] Growing through managed services
[00:56:00] Conclusion
----
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Thatâd be pretty sweet, right? But how would you get started...
Email365 will show you the way.
Sign up to get notified about the next session before "life happens" and you forget:
KEEP ME IN THE LOOP »
I hope to see you in the next session of Email365!
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The handsome and talented Louis Grenier had me on Everyone Hates Marketers to go behind the scenes on how I run my business.
Much to my delight (and true to form), he asked very specific and pointed questions so we could avoid the typical BS you hear on business podcasts.
It's also on YouTube if you prefer to watch:
Watch Now »
Louisâ Links:
https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/links----
What if your ideal buyers looked forward to getting an email from you. every. single. day?
Thatâd be pretty sweet, right? But how would you get started...
Email365 will show you the way.
Sign up to get notified about the next session before "life happens" and you forget:
KEEP ME IN THE LOOP »
I hope to see you in the next session of Email365!
- Montre plus
