Episodes
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Kristen Mynar, a board certified estate planning and probate attorney and partner with Naman, Howell, Smith & Lee in Waco, joins us on today's show. Kristen talks about maximizing your mentors, caring about your clients, and what she looks for when hiring (hint: it's not on a resume!).
Her firm/practice
Offices in Waco, FW, San Antonio, Austin
Most of the attorneys specialize in something, and there isn't much they don't do
Her typical client has high-net worth and a closely held business, so you wind up working with them both on the estate planning and business related issues.
Board certified as soon as she could, five years after starting practice
Law is always changing so always have to stay on top of it; changing administrations can have an impact certainly so watching for whether new laws get passed at the federal level
Current exemptions are at all-time highs but set to expire and be cut in half in 2026.
Waco is a great community; friendly/competent lawyers; way more money here than you would think, and those people keep their money here.
Does a lot of work with partners in the other offices, as well as with clients in the small communities around Waco. Also succession planning for client businesses.
Estate Planning can touch a lot of practice areas
Advice to lawyers in practice
Her grammar was a problem in the beginning! So she got red inked on everything for three years.
She had great mentors and was a sponge. She listened/learned. Did push back when it looked like there was more than one way to do something.
Fortunate to have someone who wanted to teach her how to practice.
Much of her practice is drafting/writing, and she kept making the same mistakes at first. So she made a list of all the mistakes she would typically make, and then before submitting anything to the partners would go over that list to see if she had made any of those mistakes.
Learn to compensate for yourself
Be humble
Take a minute and think about it! See if you can figure it out. The reader should be able to tell that you at least thought through it.
RE: Business development: just be out in the community and make sure people know what you do. Offer to go speak to different groups. Do a good job and care about the client!
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
Not a big believer in resumes.
In interviews, looking for personality. Are you a person that I want to practice with? Personable? Easy to talk with?
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ability to use their brain
What habit has been key to your success: keeping my time every day
Favorite app/productivity tool: N/A - all apps are anti-productive
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: mothering, (low-carb) cooking, lounging
Favorite legal movie: Bowl? The Case for Christ
Thanks again to Kristen Mynar for joining us on today's show! -
Erin Brockovich is an outstanding 2000 film based on a true story about a woman who never gives up, doesn't take no for an answer, and helps get justice for an entire town. Robert and Daniel are joined by special guest Hope Mustakim to break it all down!
Check out Hope's Waco ISD campaign page! https://www.hope4wacoisd.com/ -
Episodes manquant?
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Spencer Edwards, a shareholder and trial lawyer with The Hudgins Law Firm in Houston, joins us on today's show. Spencer talks about how to conduct yourself in trial, being eager to learn, and demonstrating work ethic in an interview.
His firm/practice
97 Baylor Law grad (25 years of practice)
Catastrophic Injury / Wrongful Death trial lawyer (though hasn't tried one since 2019 due to COVID)
COVID has essentially created a backlog of cases and trials, and that hasn't stopped new cases from coming in
Has a case set for trial March 1st
The shift in the judiciary has made an impact on the practice (R to D in Harris County), which initially meant actual trial lawyers were on the bench which was helpful. But now, there has been a shift in competence, experience, and consistency as well, which creates a different dynamic
More high dollar verdicts in recent years has injected uncertainty on the defense side in valuing cases as well as emboldened plaintiff's lawyers
Advice to lawyers in practice
Remember that you are going to work with/against lawyers/judges again, so don't be a jerk!
Chill
No need to be super aggressive
Only takes one moment to damage your reputation
Throw inside if you must, but don't throw a beanball!
If another attorney does that to you, however, you have to be willing to push back, especially in front of the jury
If rules of procedure/evidence don't apply, then they aren't going to apply, so don't be the only one confined by them
Also have to be prepared for rulings against you, even if they are clearly wrong
Do it with a smile on your face; don't lose your cool; don't try to embarrass the judge; you can get makeup calls!
Keep perspective
You are going to lose cases, even some you should have won (you'll probably win some you should have lost)
Don't let losses devastate you
Exude confidence in the courtroom; act like you feel like you can/should win
Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions / pride is dangerous to a young lawyer
And ask why
Don't make the same mistake twice
If something needs to get done right now, that might not be the best time to push back/challenge/ask why...just do it! Find the right time/context.
The best way to develop business is to do good work; and then watch the way lawyers at your firm develop their business and imitate that
Learn how to talk on the phone! Older partners/clients expect it and are used to it
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
He's not a big resume guy!
At their firm, a couple of younger lawyers review all the resumes and decide who to interview, and so he rarely sees the resumes. Also, law schools vary with their grading scales, so it is hard to compare candidates based on that
Impressed with work history (even in high school and college) that demonstrates work ethic
Important to bring up these things in an interview if you realize it could help you, since these items are likely not on your legal resume
Final Thought
From Professor Matt Dawson's speech to his law school graduating class: "I'm a smart guy, but that's not why I have been successful. I am successful because I have always worked hard. Don't get outworked. Don't let the other side beat you by outworking you." Great trial lawyer advice.
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Eager to learn
What habit has been key to your success: Get some sleep
Favorite app/productivity tool: Whiteboard
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Baseball / Astros
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny
Thanks again to Spencer Edwards for joining us on today's show! -
Dave talks about being known as a trial lawyer, being proactive, and conversational interviews.
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Christian Dennie, a sports lawyer, commercial litigator, and partner at Barlow, Garsek, & Simon in Fort Worth, joins us on today's show. Christian talks about understanding the case, demonstrating grit, and how the new name, image, and likeness legislation is playing out thus far.
His firm/practice
Firm is headquartered in Fort Worth with a Southlake office
Commercial firm (no criminal)
He focuses on sports clients but does a number of things under that umbrella including arbitration
Fort Worth / Tarrant County legal practice
Small town with over 1M people
Plenty of large businesses
Lots of lifers
More local/Texas based firms
Collegial and supportive of one another
New name, image, and likeness NCAA rules and state laws, as well as potential changes to the NCAA constitution are significant issues
Advice to lawyers in practice
Have someone that will take you under their wing and serve as a mentor to you and help you learn/grow
You win lawsuits in the library and not the courtroom
Sometimes the law is not on your side but you need to be creative because things need to change
Can happen in the courtroom with a decision, OR
In a settlement or outside of the courtroom...can be just as good as a decision
Take the case and figure it out
It's not about sitting in your office 18 hours a day to show that you are committed; but it's not about the hours
You are a problem solver
Ideal is to be at a law firm that has enough work that you aren't having to "create time" to meet your billable hour requirements
Daniel recalls former guest Jim Chester's advice to never leave a partner's office without the DDB (deadline / deliverable / budget).
Important for the client to understand what they are asking as well
Formulate a game plan early for how you are going to generate the clients you want
Put yourself around the clients you want, but with the expertise you have even if that is different than what you ultimately want to do
Understand the culture/business/environment of the clients you want to serve
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
Demonstrate the work you have done
How does your work history match what the firm needs
Is there a cultural fit?
If you played sports in college or beyond that stands out to him because of the grit factor
Trial experience, judicial clerkships, real estate deals/closings, employment contract experience all looks good
If you don't have those things, do you have the interest, curiosity, and willingness to transition
Sports Law
Not a lot of large national deals yet
2nd Circuit Court of Appeals / Gatto case
Lots of local/regional deals
Just making sure they comply with state law, because if they don't then they won't comply with NCAA rules
Contract can't extend beyond eligibility and there are multiple places in agreements where perpetual licenses are inserted
Bonuses based on results are not permissible and some of the early contracts had those in there
Schools are starting to get a better grasp of it
Texas' law specifically says you can't use logos/marks which can cause issues
Some schools are trying to figure out how to permit the use
Houston Travis Scott concert
Was there adequate security?
What does the license on the ticket say and do we have an enforceable arbitration clause?
What if you are forced to click a link to go out and read the fine print of the license?
Insurance?
The NCAA recommendations on constitution/bylaw changes is a major issue in college athletics; especially if we see more power pushed down to the conference level
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ability to roll up the sleeves and get after it; willing to do what it takes; send the fax!
What habit has been key to your success: understanding the client; establishing trust
Favorite app/productivity tool: Twitter
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: sports and family; stand-up paddle boarding
Favorite legal movie: A Time to Kill / My Cousin Vinny
First date of OU/TX in the SEC: 2023
Thanks again to Christian Dennie for joining us on today's show! -
Anne Heaviside, a managing director and legal recruiter with ELR in Houston, joins us on today's show. Anne talks about the lateral legal market, work from home policies, and top tips for candidates.
Her firm and role
ELR Legal is in the Tanglewood area of Houston
Specializes in 2-10 year lawyers in Texas law firms / mostly Houston / mostly Big Law (AmLaw 200)
Got her start practicing law, including at McGlinchy Stafford. She then took over the recruiting role there before stepping out to work as a legal recruiter on the outside
Legal Market Update
2019 was good as was the start of 2020
COVID put everything on hold until about November 2020
November things opened up, especially in the Big Law corporate world (Can you say SPACs?!)
Capital Markets
M&A
Private Equity
Debt Finance
2021 only got hotter
Big signing bonuses ($10k-$50k)
There are not enough corporate associates in Texas for the demand
The need is new work. Clients have more demand from Big Law firms and there aren't enough 3-6 year associates with the necessary skills.
Record number of lateral moves in Houston and Dallas
Plus new Big Law firms opening up in Austin
September hit and those associates have worked between 2000-2800 hours already in 2021 and are no longer taking recruiter calls; they are waiting for their year-end bonus before lateralling at the start of 2022.
Real Estate an Executive Comp/Employee Benefits have gotten hot
Big Law litigation is cool/slow
Litigation boutiques are hiring but they are super picky (think Big Law requirements)
Davis Polk raised the first year starting salaries from $190k to $205k and Cravath (the previous trend setter) matched (as have several others now). Has led to some mid/small firms rethink their comp.
Big Law v. Small Law
Corporate v. Litigation
Hardly any small/mid corporate firms
No sign of slowing down in 2022
In this market, small/mid associates and in-house lawyers CAN make a move to Big Law
Work/Office Arrangements
Flexibility is here to stay (in Big Law)
How flexible is the question
AmLaw 50 is still at home in Houston or back in the office by choice
Multiple office firms across the county/internationally have a hard time making different policies for different offices
AmLaw 200 will likely move to a 3/2 (three days in the office and two at home)
Though new associates will likely be required to be in the office for the training/mentorship/culture/etc.
Mid-levels and Senior associates will likely push for even more
Small firms
Will likely have more variety of policies
More likely to be in the office than the Big Law firms
Challenges to flex work
Lack of integration within the firm
What happens when promotion time comes or the work slows down and layoffs are required? Will the person who has been at home be disadvantaged versus the one who has been in the office?
How can we replicate the in-office benefits and experiences that we don't want to lose?
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
This is not OCI anymore
Not tell me about yourself or what practice to you want to go in
There is a specific need they are looking to fill
So firm needs to understand exact experience
If you have stellar academics (great grades at a great law school), list that first. Otherwise start with your law firm experience
3-6 bullets under each position communicating exactly what you do
Your role in what types of deals/cases
You can take out the bullets under internships or clerkships if you need space
If you have been practicing for at least 3+ years you need a deal sheet
Know as much about the job you are applying for as possible so you can tailor your experience to the need
Litigators definitely need a writing sample
GPA on the resume if it was at least a 3.2 (Big Law still cares even for laterals)
Big Law resumes don't need interest sections, but small law firms will often like to see it
If you do have it, make the interests unique, specific
Final Thought
If you are going to use a recruiter, look for those who have contacts at the firms you are interested in
Recruiters can help navigate some tough conversations and issues that come up (conflicts, negotiating offers, etc.)
Once your resume gets submitted to a firm (whether directly or through a recruiter), another recruiter won't be able to help you for at least 6-12 months at that firm. So be mindful.
Pros/Cons about using one or multiple recruiters, but one tends to work better for the candidate.
Candidates should give thought to whether they want to use a recruiter BEFORE they start doing anything in the process; this allows for any recruiter to best help you.
Recruiters can give insight on comp, especially in smaller firms where there isn't a standard scale
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic employers most want to see in an associate: smart
What habit has been key to your success: consistency
Favorite app/productivity tool: Linkedin
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Food blogging / foodie
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Podcast
Thanks again to Anne Heaviside for joining us on today's show! -
Shameer Soni, managing partner and real estate lawyer with Patel Law Group in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Shameer talks about starting a law firm, the real estate practice, communicating via resume, and wide receivers v. linemen.
His firm/practice
Runs the real estate practice: multi-family purchase/sale/development.
Works with retail/industrial/hospitality clients as well
Started the firm 11 years ago with two other partners built around entrepreneurs and business owners. The idea was to represent these clients in their core business as well as their investment portfolio (i.e. real estate).
Started with clients whose core businesses were doctors, IT staffing, hotel
Led to corporate immigration and real estate practice areas
Also had/have a title company
Now have a litigation practice as well that has recently pared down to work with clients adjacent to the real estate practice
Got his start at a larger firm doing entertainment/film finance in Atlanta, but when he came over to start this firm, the Dallas/Texas market didn't support the film finance area, which led to the transition to real estate
He went to every networking event, meetup in the beginning to get the firm off the ground
His partner Anish went to a networking breakfast every week at 6am at Steak and Shake
There is no bad meeting, no bad meetup. Your network has value in perpetuity.
In the early days, he built relationships with lawyers who knew what they were doing and were willing to help when he got into situations he was unsure about
Learned a lot about firm culture and the things they wanted in a firm while working for others, and then used that info to build the culture in their firm. Want to be the un-law firm law firm. From social interaction to limiting hourly billing (they do zero hourly billing on the transactional side). Conduct exit interviews with lawyers who leave and learn more about ways to improve the firm's culture.
Market
90% of their work is in Texas; 60% in north Texas.
Deals ranging from $2M to $300M and all of those are in a strong market right now.
Industrial is hot right now as well.
Community retail is picking up.
Hotels were crushed and remain so for now.
Residential is on fire in Texas, but COVID has slowed down the process with supply chain issues, etc.
Advice to lawyers in practice
Learn business development and client relationships early; be proactive in asking to go with your partner on client visits
Learn everything about a deal, not just your specific task/role
Do as many meetings as you can
You want to become a profit center as soon as possible rather than be a cost center for the firm
Recognize that you are part of the deal and collaborating with the client for a win-win scenario; it is more than just a piece of paper
Clients aren't hiring you to be a title review guy; they are hiring you to do a deal
Must understand the forest and not just your tree
Establish trust with your partners quickly so they are comfortable bringing you along to meet partners without embarrassing them
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
Recognize what the firm is looking for and make sure your documents clearly communicate your ability to meet those needs
Be specific about what you have done
What size deals?
What type of deals?
What role did you have?
Find ways to connect with the partners (did you go to the same law school?)
He rewrites his bio on the law firm website every quarter! It is a good exercise to think about when writing/rewriting your resume.
Looking for the right fit for the need they have at the time
Broadway show staffing example
Football recruiting example
Final Thought
Attitude makes up for a lot; skills can be learned/taught. Much harder to teach personality/attitude/mindset.
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: work ethic
What habit has been key to your success: persistence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Netdocs
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Formula One racing
Favorite legal movie: Liar Liar / podcast
Thanks again to Shameer Soni for joining us on today's show! -
Erin Rodgers, entertainment lawyer and shareholder at Rodgers Selvera, joins us on today's show! Erin talks about the ever changing entertainment industry, knowing your value, and the interest section on your resume.
Her firm/practice
Partnered with Sergio Selvera
He had stopped practicing for a time to start a record label when he came to a CLE where she was speaking.
She became his lawyer for a time, and then he decided he wanted to practice again and they decided to partner up
Entertainment law
Music/TV/Writers/etc.
Non-profit
IP / contractual
She has a music degree and is still a performer, which has helped her build the practice through the relationships she has
Houston is the 4th largest city in the country so there is a lot of art business
Austin has a better marketing department for its arts scene
But much of the work is federal and the communication can be done remotely, so geography doesn't tend to matter as much
Being an artist helps her understand what clients are going through as new technologies/distribution/etc. issues come up
Textbooks can't keep up with the changes in the industry
Students can help you keep up!
One record label friend says they are predominately marketing new music via Tik Tok and Fortnite
Why not you? (when it comes to practicing entertainment law)
Do something every day that moves you forward to the thing you want to do.
Entertainment Law is an amalgam of things that already exist (copyright, entity formation, trademarks, etc.)
Non-profit/entertainment/sports have quite a bit of overlap, and for the arts sometimes the entity itself should be a non-profit
There is a new Copyright Royalty Board
Essentially a small claims court/mediation for copyright, since so many "violations" go unchallenged due to the high cost of lawsuits
Pros/cons: will make many more people/companies likely to be challenged for their work that takes from others
A panel is supposed to make decisions
Advice to lawyers in practice
If you want to practice entertainment law, volunteering with the Texas Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts can provide great experience
Show your sincere interest in the practice
Don't make it more convenient / less costly in time for the lawyer/partner do just do it themselves as opposed to showing you how
Know the value of the service that you offer
If you aren't charging enough, some people/potential clients/referrers may assume you aren't good
Understand the market
Setting your rates can help you filter what type of clients you work with
On Work/Life Balance
Make the choice as early on as you can
Prioritize certain things on top of your law practice, even if its small chunks of time
Minimize the amount of work that isn't billable
That we can do everything ourselves doesn't mean we should
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
Highlight specific experience that relates to the position, the industry
Interests section matters!
"want to work in a small office" not the best response to why do you want to work here. Maybe that could be the 4th/5th thing on the list, but certainly shouldn't be the first.
Employers can tell when you are sending the same cover letter to every job/employer. Tailor your cover letters! She actually gave credit to those who voluntarily submitted a cover letter when it wasn't asked for.
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: think on your feet / adaptable
What habit has been key to your success: work/life balance
Favorite app/productivity tool: pen/paper list and random number generator
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: playing music (clarinet, accordion, guitar, piano, vocals)
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Lone Star Lawyers Movie Verdicts Episode
Thanks again to Erin Rodgers for joining us on today's show! -
Marty Sadler, insurance litigator with Litchfield Cavo in Houston, joins us on today's show! Marty talks about managing up, maintaining your humanity, and the importance of poise in an interview.
His firm/practice
22 offices across the nation
full service firm
Houston office (15 lawyers) mostly does insurance work (he does 1st party and many in his office do third party)
Texas lawyers needed for so much of the weather-generated work (hurricanes/hail/wind) that Texas generates
New Texas Supreme Court opinion in Hinojos (v. State Farm) - related to payment of claims after an appraisal. Used to be that if you paid promptly, you avoided all the statutory delay interest penalties. The SC took that away.
COVID update (9/29/21)
With 22 offices there are 22 different COVID situations; every office doing their own thing
Houston office: people can decide how much they want to work in the office v. at home
Marty has only been back in the office once since March 2020; and that one time was by order of a Federal Judge for a hearing!
Very few in-person hearings; no trials since the start of COVID
Expects he will work in a hybrid office format for the rest of his career
What have we lost (or will lose) moving more to relationship online v in-person?
Advice to lawyers in practice
Attention to detail is the most salient element for success as a young lawyer
Learn how to "manage up" in your professional relationships
Don't just react
Communicate with your partners as to what your workload is like and ask for the priority order of the projects
Talk to other associates and see how they work with their partners/supervisors
Resources:
https://www.idealist.org/en/careers/managing-up
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-does-it-mean-to-manage-up-11608242276
https://www.attorneyatwork.com/managing-up/
Push to product
He can't revise a motion that you haven't given him, or that is missing large pieces
He wants to see the work twice: once as a framework of the work early that he can edit, and then a polished form of the product later
Partners may have a different process, so again it is important for you to get to know what each partner you work for expects/requires. Also have to manage the calendar to allow for the entire process to work before filing
On business development
Learn how to be a lawyer first
You don't have to be 50 to get your first referral; young lawyers have an opportunity to get cases early in their careers
On work/life balance
You can always work longer/harder, so you can become consumed in being a lawyer
You have to figure out a way to remember you are a human being first
Don't go home to the family as a lawyer
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
He likes to see some judicial intern/clerk experience if you are a new lawyer so you have been in the courtroom
Writing samples are helpful
Show poise in the interview; comfortable and confident when things change on them
Find ways to talk about what you bring to the firm and how you will help the firm
Final Thoughts
If you are an associate, the best thing you can do to improve your career is to make yourself indispensable to your partner(s). Will increase your client contact, chances to do depositions, etc.
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: poise
What habit has been key to your success: attention to detail
Favorite app/productivity tool: Word
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: bird photography
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny
CHECK OUT HIS BIRD PHOTOGRAPHY!
On Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-sadler-61094120/detail/recent-activity/
Thanks again to Marty Sadler for joining us on today's show! -
Lauren Valkenaar, a partner and commercial litigator with Chasnoff Stribling in San Antonio, joins us on today's show. Lauren talks about having an internal standard, being honest and authentic in your job search, and developing business best practices.
Her firm/practice
Boutique litigation firm
Business/commercial litigation
Broke off of a large firm and wanted to maintain the same level of quality but get a little more autonomy
Flexible/nimble
Cases deal with Breach of Contract, Tortious Interference, Fraud, etc.
COVID has changed the way they practice
Not physically in the courtroom, but they have adapted well
Zoom hearings will likely stay
Their clients get sued all over the country, so Zoom is a positive
Zoom depos are a different thing and in-person is more important there
COVID also impacting their clients
How to deal with their employees / working remote or in-office
Everyone is an employment lawyer now (Daniel)
Don't get complacent with your technology (Daniel) / Don't be a cat!
San Antonio
Very collegial bar
All the amenities of large city but a smaller town feel
Great mentors because lawyers are close and kind
As a young professional, many more opportunities to get involved in the community and make an impact at a high level
Advice to lawyers in practice
Create an internal standard / desire to get it right / goes beyond checking the box / when you know that you are likely the only one to know whether or not you "ran an issue to ground."
So much of being a lawyer is internal motivation
Surround yourself with great people who keep these high standards
You are the average of the five people closest to you (Daniel / Jim Rohn)
Think about the business aspect of the law firm
Learn from people who are different from you
Be a team player; that shows up immediately and makes a big impact
Are you offering to help on other cases when you are done for the day but others are still working?
Focus on the work product / the words / the documents
Have an intellectual curiosity; think/learn beyond the discrete task you are working on; try to get a handle on the larger picture and how your piece fits in
Don't be a jerk
Don't have sloppy work product
Communicate, especially if you are doing work for multiple partner with different deadlines. Don't just be silent.
On business development:
Plant seeds and build relationships with zero expectations they will turn into business
Your law school classmates can become your clients or referral sources; stay in touch with them!
Do great work
Get involved in the community
Don't do something for the sole purpose of developing business: rarely does that work
Over time, business will come in more from referrals based upon the work you have done for someone; but that takes time to build up
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
No typos in the resume!
Connection to the type of work should show through in the resume
Continuity and not a lot of jumping around firm to firm
The more specific you can be on the resume the better in order to show what they've done and accomplished in their prior/current roles. Helps you to stand out, but also for the interviewer to know how to slot you in if they do hire you. How much training will you need, etc.?
Come to the interview prepared with questions
Avoid arrogance/entitlement; that's a turnoff
Honesty and authenticity shines through
Final Thoughts
Be honest and self-aware in what you are looking for in a firm; those are critical to making a good match in the hiring process.
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Grit (book by Angela Duckworth; Ted Talk)
What habit has been key to your success: Never assuming; always go back and double check
Favorite app/productivity tool: Remarkable
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Travel (Italy; Cambodia)
Favorite legal movie: A Time To Kill
Thanks again to Lauren Valkenaar for joining us on today's show! -
Andrew Tuegel, a plaintiff's attorney and partner with Simpson, Simpson, & Tuegel in Bridgeport (TX), joins us on today's show. Andrew talks about knowing your jurisdiction, becoming indispensable, being honest in an interview, and Ted Lasso.
His firm/practice
Located in Wise County (NW of Fort Worth); Decatur is the county seat and their office is in Bridgeport
Small firm that focuses on plaintiff personal injury / wrongful death / mass tort practice. Most of the work is contingent fee; the rest is local business.
Majority of client base is in Wise County and the western part of the metroplex. Mass tort clients are nationwide.
Likes that he has tried cases all over the country, since even with the local clients, the case itself may get filed in other jurisdictions.
If you are filing in jurisdictions are aren't familiar with, know the substantive law that applies
Two jurisdictions in U.S. that still have a 1% comparative fault/contributory negligence bar to recovery (Virginia and North Carolina), so that might determine whether or not to take a case of where to file, etc.
Understand how the contingency fees can be structured (Texas has no cap other than not unconscionable; pretty wide latitude, but others have specific limitations on contingence fees)...this is a factor in how to evaluate/value the case.
Plaintiff lawyers are nervous every time the legislature meets
Big push for HB 19 (tort reform in trucking wreck context) that became effective 9/1.
Texas Supreme Court case recently allowed people pursing uninsured motorist claims can also get attorney fees.
COVID update (as of 8/19)
He has a case set for the end of September
He was recently in a hearing where mid-way through the judge had to end the hearing early because some type of exposure had occurred in the courthouse.
Nothing moves cases like firm trial dates.
Criminal trials take precedence and will bump the civil cases
Advice to lawyers in practice
Make yourself indispensable; find something that you can contribute to the team and that you are the best at. Become a necessary part of the team (shoutout to Baylor Law's Practice Court)
When he was with Harrison Steakley, Matt Morrison was the partner on a bunch of opioid overdose cases that needed a lot of expert/technical witnesses and related depositions, etc. He was good at briefing on these expert issues and making sure they could keep their expert and get rid of the other side's expert.
This led to him becoming part of the trial team for one of the cases in Utah, and then in Maine, and then in North Carolina. And while he briefed like crazy, he also got to take some of the witnesses at trial.
If you do well with a little thing, you will get more opportunities with larger things. The inverse is true: if you don't do the little things well, you won't get the larger opportunities.
Become the expert on novel or local rules/laws; this is a place for young lawyers to become the most knowledgeable about an area within their firm.
Steve Harrison, legendary Waco trial lawyer and a gentleman-rancher, said that in every law firm, you need some combination of chicken getters and chicken pluckers. And lawyers need to figure out where they are in the getter/plucker scale. Getter = bringing in clients/cases/business; Pluckers = bill hours/push cases/do the work. Some people are a combination of both. But you need to contribute to a firm in one or both of these ways in order to be valuable to them.
Re: business development from the plaintiff's side:
the more serious a case, the more relational the business development is going to be, either with the potential client or referral source (another attorney, friend of the client, etc.)
the less serious a case, the more a Google search or a response to an ad can work
Some of the best PI lawyers get their referrals from other lawyers
A lot of the advertising PI lawyers will actually wind up referring the case to the best trial lawyer in that area rather than trying it themselves
Advice to lawyers on the lateral market
Be honest about what your experience is
it's okay if you haven't done something or only done it a few times; the interviewer just needs to know what you can do on day one
Be willing to learn and work
On the plaintiff's side, understand it is a results-oriented business (not an hours billed business)
Must be willing to do what it takes to win (within the bounds of ethical)
Ted Lasso Commentary
He is a big soccer fan (Liverpool) and was immediately interested once he first became aware of it
Original Ted Lasso commercials for the premiere league coming to NBC from 2013!!
Come for the humor; stay for the heart!
Addresses tough subjects without being preachy, but we're going to talk about it.
Can use some of this to talk with people in your own life about these subjects
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Willingness
What habit has been key to your success: Get up early
Favorite app/productivity tool: Twitter
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Pilot
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / podcast
Thanks again to Andrew Tuegel for joining us on today's show! -
Daniel Hare is the founder and president of Varsity Search, a legal recruiting company dedicated to building great teams by bringing together lawyers and law firms. In this episode, Daniel provides and update on the legal hiring market, as well as some tips on how to productively work with a legal recruiter.
Legal Market Update
Big Law Lateral market is active, with a focus on M&A and Private Equity
Holland & Knight merged with Thompson & Knight, effective 8/1
More large firms are adding/growing their Texas presence
Quinn Emanuel added an Austin office to their Texas footprint in Houston, and is looking at Dallas
Energy, tech, private equity, IP are leading practice areas
Texas-based firms trying to hang in
Big Law start salaries have gone to $205k, scaling to $365k for year 8
Full scale, putting 3rd/4th year lawyers at $240k-$275k
Much of this is specific to big law; how does it impact small/medium firms
While I often think about Big Law and all other law as two different economies, the reality is Big Law does have an impact
Trying to recruit Big Law associates to the boutiques has become more difficult financially. A $150k salary for a third year lawyer may not have seemed like a terrible pay cut when they were making $205k or $215k. Now they are making $240k, $250k. A $100k cut is a lot for anyone.
These salaries will continue to trend of Big Law focusing on corporate/transactional areas and pushing the expensive litigation matters to the boutiques.
What I’m seeing in small firm recruiting / anecdotal
A lot of activity / strong market
Heavier on the litigation side (some for reasons above)
Salaries in the $100k-$170k depending on the firm, the level of candidate’s experience, etc.
Insurance defense, government/admin, and family law tend to be on the lower end by virtue of the legal fees those client bases are willing to pay.
Firms servicing small/mid-size companies will tend to pay more
Employers like candidates who haven't bounced around to a lot of different firms
If that's you, highlight it in interviews; it's a strength!
If that's not you, be prepared to address this issue
Even if you aren't asked directly
Don't bad-mouth prior employers, but instead talk positively about the employer you moved to
Pivot to why the firm you are interviewing with presents an opportunity you value and are interested in.
Preference tends to go to candidates who have been able to get more hands-on experience earlier. So if you can start taking depos and handling hearings early on, that makes you more valuable to a potential lateral employer.
Make sure your resume doesn't just read like a job description the firm's HR department would write; use specifics, highlight accomplishments, add numbers
Relocation is possible
Prepare to communicate your reason for the move to the new city beyond the job
It can be an advantage in more niche areas where firms know each other in a city and prefer not to poach
How to work productively with a legal recruiter
Share what you are up to
Have you already applied somewhere?
Firms won't work with recruiters if they already have a relationship with you, so we as recruiters will want to avoid reaching out to those firms.
We also want to see the types of firms/jobs you have applied to; it helps us know what you are looking for.
If you want to use a recruiter, you should limit these direct applications because it limits how/where we can help
Be open/honest about what you are looking for
We can only help you if you tell us what you are looking for.
I feel bad when a candidate takes a position in a city/practice area they had never mentioned before, because perhaps I could have helped them find something better/sooner/etc.
Sometimes things change; that’s okay! Just keep us updated.
Talk with us before you respond to an offer
Sometimes it can feel tempting to just take the offer or make a counter offer that isn’t far from the original offer, but best to get our perspective first. Your instincts might be right; but you also might wind up leaving money on the table.
Enjoy your Labor Day Weekend next week and we'll be back with a new episode the following Monday! -
Jessica Mullins-Ta, a corporate immigration lawyer and partner Berry Appleman & Leiden in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Jessica talks about knowing how to look for the answer, prioritizing balance, and eliminating those resume typos!
Her firm/practice
represent companies in bringing their employees to the US so they can get the appropriate visas that allow them to work
she joined the firm out of law school to do more of their litigation matters, but stayed on and grew into the immigration practice
regardless of what's going on in the politics of it, there is always an impact and always changes in substance and emphasis
most embassies are shut down right now; many workers are stuck there and can't get back to the U.S.
businesses are no longer satisfied with pausing travel, so executives and consultants are traveling internationally which has been a challenge with state department restrictions (but those have relaxed some of those (as of the date of recording / July 8)
large businesses make up a big percentage of certain types of work visas (especially those for quick, one day travel/meeting types of visas among C-level), but other types of workers and visas can be found throughout the economy through mid-size and small businesses, particularly in the STEM fields
tech
oil & gas
government (and contractors)
universities
research
in some areas, the regulations haven't been updated quick enough to keep up with the advancements in tech
Advice to lawyers in practice
Need to overcome the fear of not knowing
You won't know the answer but you have the tools, and that's okay
Understand where to start looking for an answer, and take the lead on what you think is the right direction.
She is a working mom who errs on the side of not saying no (to anyone), and that isn't sustainable
burnout is real
balance is important
even if you feel like you can take more on, that doesn't mean you should
take your full maternity leave
if you are unhappy it may be how you are practicing law and not the actual practice of law; evaluate this before you leave the profession
many times we put this pressure/expectation on ourselves
Can help to have a California/international offices of your firm which typically has more mental health/vacation/leave
Don't be overconfident and miss an issue or a risk, or present a client with assurances that you shouldn't/can't provide
Be eager to learn and ask questions
Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market
No typos! Employers will think you don't care enough to make sure the resume is correct, your work product won't be good either
Know what the firm is looking for. Do they need a writer? A trial lawyer? An administrative/forms lawyer?
Highlight your strengths, interests and experiences so the firm can figure out if you fit what they need
In the interview, are you engaging? Relatable? Client skills are harder to teach than the actual substantive law, so that is what they are looking to see whether you have it or you don't.
Final Thoughts
Leadership appreciates people who work hard and try hard, and if you do what it takes to learn what you don't know, it will be appreciated.
Integrity matters
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: willingness to try
What habit has been key to your success: always assuming I'm wrong, and trying to prove it
Favorite app/productivity tool: proprietary firm dashboard
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: hip-hop music (Jay-Z)
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde
Thanks again to Jessica Mullins-Ta for joining us on today's show! -
Kathleen Turner Beduze, a fiduciary litigator and shareholder at Crain Caton & James in Houston, joins us on today's show. Kathleen talks about showing confidence and curiosity, turning interviews into conversations, and of course, Free Britney!
Her firm/practice
Her practice focuses on fiduciary litigation and guardianship work
2015 revamped guardianship code
legislature is generally against full-blown guardianships, preferring things like power-of-attorneys instead (and less court supervision)
Impacts the planning attorneys in trying to figure out what should be in the general estate planning documents
Firm
45+ attorneys
firm handles almost everything except for family and environmental
Has grown over the years
Pros/cons to being midsize firm
work/life balance
not the same rates as large firms (but this can lead to more business as well)
quality of work can be the same as Big Law
What's up with "Free Britney!"?
Go read/listen to her letter to the court
Recognize that California is much different than Texas when it comes to guardianships
How is her father getting a % of her gig money in his capacity as conservator as opposed to business manager/agent?
Covid Update (7/1/21)
Courts - completely depends on where you are.
She had an in-person jury trial in Galveston in May
jurors were six feet apart and split between the jury box and the gallery
Montgomery was holding in-person hearings as well
Harris County not in-person yet (early fall setting for an in-person trial)
Has done trials by Zoom so it can work
Clients
Their clients are all over the nation, and the rise in video calls have
Advice for Zoom hearings/trials/depos/etc.
You have to be prepared
One of the biggest complaints from judges is lawyers taking things to casually/informally; treat it like you are in person
Remember that your face is always on camera and someone may be looking at you when you don't realize it
Advice to lawyers in practice
Have confidence in yourself; not necessarily in specific areas of the law that you haven't learned yet, but in your abilities to write, research, speak, strategize, etc. This isn't ego or arrogance; there's a difference.
Be willing to pitch a new idea or something that other may not have thought of yet
It is okay if your personality and a client's personality don't exactly jive; don't worry about it.
Ask questions of partners and more senior lawyers; admit if you don't know something; communicate
Ex. if you are overloaded with work from other partners and you get a new assignment from a new partner
If you don't understand, repeat the instructions
Take notes! Don't show up without a pen/paper! You will forget!
(Daniel refers to Jim Chester's DDB (Deadline/Deliverable/Budget))
Advice to lawyers on the lateral market
On paper
Academics do matter
Beyond that, extracurriculars/interests matter to her. She wants to know what the person is like. Use your documents to show your unique path to where you are today.
Show why you are different
Show why you are looking to move and why you want to work here. A lot of bouncing around raises questions and doesn't look great.
In an interview
Exhibit calmness; don't show your nerves
Practice the interview beforehand to try to help with this
Come with good/specific questions that show you have prepared and are familiar with the firm and the interviewers
A conversation is better than straight Q/A
Final Thoughts
Be comfortable with who you are, what you are doing, and what you are wanting to do; find the right level of work/life balance that works for you.
Everything comes in waves/stages in life, so just recognize that.
(Daniel) Don't feel stuck in something if your life circumstances change and don't judge yourself to harshly if you make changes
Never meet a stranger; build and maintain your network
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: communication
What habit has been key to your success: perseverance
Favorite app/productivity tool: iTimekeep
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: family
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde (Podcast) / The Firm
Thanks again to Kathleen Turner Beduze for joining us on today's show! -
In this Movie Verdicts-esque episode, special guest Bobby Soltani joins Daniel to talk all things legal in Seinfeld.
We discuss:
The various trials and cases
Kramer v. Java World
Kramer v. Big Tobacco
The City of New York v. Newman (x2)
Kramer v. Sue Ellen Mitschke
Claire v. PlayNow
The lawyers in the show
Jackie Chiles (if you know you know)
Vanessa (early Jerry girlfriend)
Cheryl (immigration lawyer who also sues Elaine)
Schellbach (estate lawyer / Ben Stein)
Frank Costanza's divorce lawyer (Larry David / the man in the cape)
The judges in the show
Judge Arthur Vandelay (played by Movie Verdicts veteran Stanley Anderson)
Judge Sackett (Newman's speeding ticket trial)
Judge Hart (Newman's parking ticket trial)
Judge ?? (Kramer v. Mitschke)
Several movie verdicts-style awards
More!
Surprise after the ending music so listen all the way through! (hint: Seinfeld character Cameo) -
Bobby Soltani, patent and IP lawyer with Seed IP in Seattle, joins us on today's show! Bobby talks about his career journey through IP law, knowing your audience, and how many lateral moves it takes to raise a red flag.
His firm/practice
Largest IP boutique in the pacific NW
He works in patent prosecution, mostly in electronics and software
In the software space, lots of discussion about what is patent eligible subject matter; statutes are generally silent (i.e. broad) but courts are drawing lines much more strictly
lots of variation in both the courts and the patent office, so can present challenges with advising clients
COVID update (as of June 16th)
Most of the firm and their clients are still working from home
Mostly been able to seamlessly transition and continue working with clients
Some sectors of clients have been hit hard by the pandemic, while others have seen growth (i.e. gaming)
Career track
Started at a small boutique patent firm in Boulder, CO
Got lots of hands on experience and immediate client contact
All prosecution / no litigation
Went to Seattle in 2010 to work with a large firm
50% patent prosecution / 50% litigation
Discovered that litigation didn't fit his personality
Moved to Seed in 2013 to return to full-time patent prosecution and at an IP boutique
In his experience, plenty of patent/IP litigators didn't have the hard science background that is required for patent prosecution and some litigation. Though it can be a bit tougher to get your foot in the door without it.
Sometimes being a lay person can be helpful, since the judge and jury likely won't have that background either
Judge Albright and the Western District of Texas in Waco is now an IP litigation hot spot
Advice to lawyers in practice
Know the audience you are communicating with and respond directly to what is being asked
Get comfortable with the process of learning how to be a lawyer
Show ownership and dedication to the work and the projects
Keep an open line of communication with any partners you are doing work for
Be creative
On work/life balance:
Reducing commutes can really help, as the pandemic has revealed
Though it can be tough to separate work from home when you work at home
Firms providing more mental/physical health benefits/programs can be helpful, though lawyers need to take advantage of them
Analytical skills will become even more important as legal practice evolves over time and as things like LPOs and AI take on more routine tasks
Advice to lawyers on the lateral market
If looking at a specialized firm, know that it may be looking for that specific background/education/experience that precisely fits the need of the position.
Demonstrate a consistency in growing and challenging yourself.
One or two moves early on in someone's career doesn't raise too much of a flag for him, but six or seven moves in the same number of years would likely raise concerns.
Candidates would be wise to address this issue head on in an interview or cover letter
Know that small/boutique firms usually want to hire people who they will like and get along with, and will enjoy working with day in / day out
Final Thoughts
Work hard
Work on your relationships; stay in touch with your law school colleagues
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: dedication
What habit has been key to your success: keeping a daily task list
Favorite app/productivity tool: OneNote
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Tennis
Favorite legal movie: 12 Angry Men
Thanks again to Bobby Soltani for joining us on today's show! -
JoAl Cannon Sheridan, family lawyer and founder of Sheridan Family Law in Austin, joins us on today's show! JoAl talks about growing up with a lawyer father, the latest in family law, and balancing confidence with humility.
Her firm/practice
She is originally from Mexia, TX, which is perhaps known best by a joke that went "viral" decades ago:
This older couple was driving East on 84 out of Waco, and kept seeing the signs for Mexia. Being that they were old and married and argued about everything, they got into an argument about how to properly pronounce "Mexia."As they pulled into town they decided they needed to settle the debate once an for all. They immediately saw the sign for Dairy Queen and pulled into the parking lot. They walked up to the counter where a bright-eyed young high school girl was manning the register, and they asked, "How do you say the name of this place?"The girl got a confused look and said back very slowly... "DAI-RY QUEEN."
Joe Cannon is her dad and a well known lawyer who just retired
Cowrote the Texas desegregation bill in the 1960s
She would go to his office all the time as a kid, and always knew she wanted to be a lawyer
After years at a couple of other firms, started her own firm
Niche areas
Third-party custody
International/jurisdictional
Drawn to family law because it is a calling and a ministry
Dealing with great people at the saddest points in their life
Takes a certain personality and calling
She also has a love for animals and thought about becoming a veterinarian (but didn't have the stomach for it!)
Family law update
The pandemic
People who are forced into house arrest for 15 months either brings you closer or pushes people apart
Has caused family law practice to be very busy
Supreme Court did the right thing by ordering parents to honor custody arrangements and not use COVID as an excuse to ignore them
New rule as of 1/1/21 - Mandatory disclosures due 30 days after an answer is due
Lawyers believe they are the better judges of their lawsuits
Not every case needs full blown discovery
Rule 11 agreements to defer that are very common
Two new Supreme Court decisions
In re CJC (2020)
Lots of ways to have standing as a non-parent, but two main ones (you had actual care/possession in the past six months OR you are family and the child's health is at issue)
Overturned In re: VLK (2000) which said there was no parental presumption in a modification (so this was a best interest of the child test)
So now there is a parental presumption
In re H?? (2019)
For the six month rule, how do you define care/possession?
Excludes daycare workers, etc.
If you were making day-to-day decisions for the child, feeding them, taking them to the doctor
This is a standing question; doesn't mean they will get custody, but gives them their day in court
Practicing during COVID (as of 6/30/21)
Challenging and just not the same versus being in the same room with people
Various courts are opening up at different paces depending on your county
Travis County on 9/1
Rural counties have already opened up
Live bench conferences / administrative hearings / uncontested dockets etc. will likely continue by virtual/video stream depending on the judge/jurisdiction
Advice to lawyers in practice
Respect your elders
Don't get overly aggressive trying to prove yourself; give deference to a more experienced attorney
Civility is important
Understand the big picture and the lay of the land
Show good judgment and maturity
Admit that you don't 100% understand what you are doing
Share what you are thinking and ask another attorney what they think
Don't get into the mud with your clients
This can be very difficult
Recognize it doesn't help you be a better lawyer/advocate for your client when you do this
Find a good mentor
takes the time to show you the ropes
Be realistic with your clients, and don't let them dictate how you work the case
Your reputation with judges is on the line, and if you aren't reasonable with requests or haven't made a reasonable effort to settle the case, it will impact your ability to help clients when you do have to be in the courtroom
Advice to lawyers on the lateral market
Firms may need different roles/experiences at different times, so know what they are looking for
Communicate to employers why you want to do what you do
Integrity matters
Dress appropriately for all interviews
Bring your A game
Confident plus humble
fine line between promoting yourself (which you have to do in an interview) and not being arrogant
Be eager to do well and make a difference
Chemistry/fit with the firm
Know your audience and do your research, but don't go overboard with personal research
Why do you want to work here?
Final Thoughts
Give service back to the profession
Bar work
Pro Bono
It is important and makes your work more fulfilling
Another way to pursue work/life balance
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: loyalty
What habit has been key to your success: To-do lists
Favorite app/productivity tool: Clio
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: scuba diving
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird (podcast)/ Legally Blonde (podcast)
Thanks again to JoAl Cannon Sheridan for joining us on today's show! -
Mary Green, medical malpractice and personal injury lawyer with Pierce Skrabanek in Houston, joins us on today's show! Mary talks about organization, asking the how and why, and moving from the defense side to the plaintiff's side.
Her firm/practice
Medical malpractice law
Biggest changes were in 2003 tort reform
Now paying attention to SB6 relating to immunity of healthcare providers in treatment of COVID patients
Almost every one of her cases was on hold last spring/summer, but then everyone adapted and many of the cases were able to progress, and had her first in-person trial last month
Some cases settled quickly for not wanting to wait forever to get into court, but others just held out since there wasn't any pressure of a pending trial to encourage a settlement
Having worked on the defense side of the personal injury docket is a plus for a plaintiff's firm: communicating with an adjuster, moving cases forward, etc.
But you do have to adjust to a more proactive approach since the plaintiff's side drives the litigation
Getting away from the billable hour requires a change in mindset from checking a box on time to accomplishing specific tasks/goals regardless of how long they take.
Advice to lawyers in practice
Organization has been key for her
Evernote!
Find a way that works for you; there isn't a one-size-fits-all way to accomplish the goals for the client
If your partner takes the time to explain, teach, share reasons/rationale with you, listen and engage. Or if they aren't, ask! That demonstrates your curiosity and interest in understanding
Also can give you a chance to demonstrate what you've done so far
establish rapport with partners
understand context - if there is an urgent deadline this might not be possible
Don't take fake-it-till-you-make-it to an extreme
Have confidence, but understand when you don't know something and need to ask questions and learn
Much of your business will come by referrals, so maintain connections
with others in your field
with former classmates
with other lawyers
Advice to lawyers on the lateral market
Tailor your resume to the specific position you are applying to
shows that you really want this job and aren't just looking for a job
this can also help you think through whether or not the position is the right fit for you
The firm is looking for how will the candidate interact with clients, judges, etc. based on how they are communicating in the interview
Interviewers are also trying to determine whether they want to work with the person day-in and day-out
Candidates should be thinking about that same thing; do you want to work with this group of people?
Doesn't mean they are looking for the same type of people; but rather a group who can work well together and get along together
Final Thoughts
Remember the human side of things; clients are often going through one of the most challenging times in their lives
Everyone grieves differently
Everyone responds to stress differently
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: hardworking
What habit has been key to your success: organization
Favorite app/productivity tool: Evernote
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: travel
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny
Thanks again to Mary Green for joining us on today's show! -
Robert and Daniel talk about when the courts are wrong, a lot of things that didn't age well, and a surprisingly high number of deaths for a movie like this.
The Pelican Brief IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107798/?ref_=vp_back
All The President's Men IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074119/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_8
Robert on Twitter: @rcallahanwaco
Daniel on Twitter: @danielhare -
Jim Chester, a partner at Klemchuk and a business and technology attorney, joins me on today's show. Jim talks about entrepreneurship, finding a fulfilling career path, and deadlines, deliverables, and budgets.
His firm/practice
Boutique technology law firm
Focuses on business transactions working with small and mid-size companies at all stages
Some others in the firm do patent and IP litigation work
There is always something new, especially with technology company clients (he also does some international / trade work which is always evolving)
Cybersecurity and data privacy are major issues he works on
GDPR for all of EU and California's law are important
Other states are starting to come online
There isn't a federal law
Not enough enforcement actions yet to know exactly how these are applying; creates uncertainty
His career path?
Tried a bunch of things in law school
Didn't enjoy litigation
Started career as an international business / trade lawyer (wrote his master's thesis on NAFTA)
Sounds sexy, but it isn't.
Glorified tax law
Realized he enjoyed working with smaller clients, but they didn't have many trade issues
Started his own firm to transition
Commercial/transactional IP
You have to invest in yourself early in your career; things that you won't be paid for but help you learn what you like and get better at it
You create a lot of your own luck
Four quadrant matrix (Interested / Not interested and Market for it / not a market for it) - get into the quadrant that is interested and a market for it
There has been growth in the business transactions area for them during COVID; people had time and started new projects
Law doesn't typically embrace change quickly, but COVID forced change (e.g. Zoom, tech, work from home)
WSJ article - COVID kickstarted the 21st century
Some of these changes will be silver linings to the pandemic
Will require more self-discipline
Need to completely get rid of the stigma of work from home
His entrepreneurial ventures
Lawyer co-working space
His own law firm
Subscription based model for industry-specific legal forms
A few other non-legal related
Advice to lawyers in practice
Manage your manager
take responsibility for your own projects
anticipate what is next
Don't leave a partner's office with an assignment without the deadline / deliverable / budget...the DDB
Gives you a much better idea as to the scope
Daniel references a The West Wing episode
Find someone who has a job you want 20 years from now and look at their bio (Linkedin)
what skills did they obtain along the way?
what experiences did they get?
Don't try to live to someone else's standard of success; listen to yourself.
The choices are based on the idea that he is a lawyer because of who he is (not the other way around)
Be a self-starter, creative, entrepreneurial
Find a mentor
Think about building a book of business
The first $100k is the hardest
$400k to $500k is easier
Build / maintain relationships
alumni/classmates
local bar
Final thoughts
Be honest with yourself and think in big picture terms as to whether you are in the right place
Rapid Fire Questions
Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ingenuity
What habit has been key to your success: delusional level of confidence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Things
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: spending time with family
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird
Thanks again to Jim Chester for joining us on today's show! - Montre plus
