Episodes
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We're back! And for this episode we're lucky to welcome the one and only Ben Rhodes onto the show.
Ben spent eight years with President Barack Obama - as a close confidante, speechwriter, national security advisor, and friend.
He was there when the Paris Agreement was signed, and at Obama's side every step of the way towards that historic moment - including the breakthrough with China that ultimately paved the way for the agreement.
We hope you enjoy this one. It's rare to get to speak with someone who has been so close to the highest levels of climate politics.
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
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Elizabeth Kolbert is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Sixth Extinction. Her most recent book, Under a White Sky, looks at the unintended consequences of human attempts to control nature with technology.
"We're now intervening to counter the effects of our own intervention," Kolbert says. "I call it the control of the control of nature."
When it comes to climate change, the question that lies at the heart of Under a White Sky is essentially whether various experiments in geoengineering are a distraction from cutting emissions, or whether things have gotten so bad that we need to consider these interventions.
James caught up with Elizabeth about this and what our priorities should be when it comes to addressing the climate crisis – action to cut emissions, even though it might not be enough globally, or take the risk of using technology to geoengineer the climate, at all the potential consequences that could entail.
We had a few technical difficulties with this one and had to rely on the recording function on Zoom, which doesn't offer the best sound quality - but it doesn't get in the way of a great conversation!
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
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Episodes manquant?
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This week James catches up with the former chief strategist and senior advisor to President Obama, David Axelrod.
James and David talk about the tensions between consensus building and the need for urgent action when it comes to climate action. They also talk about the need to tell a positive story about how climate action will benefit people's lives.
David shares his experience of working on 150 campaigns across the U.S., including Barrack Obama's two historic elections in 2008 and 2012, and highlights the importance of bringing people along on the journey net-zero.
Obama himself has said his administration did not “adapt quickly enough to the fact that there were people being left behind and that frustrations were going to flare up.” This is something we will all need to be aware of.
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
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This week James catches up with award winning author Barbara Kingsolver, whose work over the last three decades has eloquently and movingly touched on matters of genuine social and environmental concern.
Most notably, Barbara's novel Flight Behaviour conveyed the impact of climate change on a community, an ecosystem and a species. The novel also draws out the tension that can exist between one's everyday life and the changes happening around us, of which we can feel powerless to address on our own. This is particularly evident in the life of the novel's main character, Dellarobia, who tries to make sense of the unexpected arrival of a flock of monarch butterflies and what it might mean for the future while struggling with the challenges of poverty and her own family.
Running through Barbara's work over the last 30 years has been a real sense of place - from her early books in Arizona, to the Poisonwood Bible, to Flight Behaviour. She has also written a number of books with more than a passing reference to the natural world, including Small Wonder and Animal, Vegetable, Miracle.
Most recently Barbara contributed a poem to a Time magazine special report called 2050: The Fight for the Earth, which provides a powerful look at the politics of consumption, equality, and climate change. Halfway through the episode Barbara treats us to a very special reading of the poem.
Some of the most popular podcast episodes we've published so far have been those that look at climate change through a slightly different lens. In the last series it was legendary music producer Brian Eno who spoke to James about what different models and structures for making music can teach us about how to organise society and our politics.
Today we are delighted to bring you another unique perspective on the role art and literature can play in helping address the climate crisis.
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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When Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim was a child, Lake Chad in her home country spanned 10,000 km2. Today, because of climate change, it is around a tenth of that size.
As Hindou puts its "climate change is not about our future, it's about our present.”
Hindou is an expert in the adaptation and mitigation of indigenous peoples to climate change. She is a member of the Mbororo pastoralist people in Chad and President of the Association for Indigenous Women and Peoples of Chad (AFPAT). Oumarou Ibrahim is an advocate for the greater inclusion of indigenous people and their knowledge and traditions in the global movement to fight the effects of climate change.
Soon after we started talking Hindou reminded me that "when you are born an indigenous person, you are born an activist for the environment.”
On the one hand, this is an upsetting conversation about the impact climate change is having right now on indigenous peoples all over the world. On the other hand, it is an inspiring, hopeful conversation about our capacity to build a better, cleaner, low carbon future.
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
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James catches up with author and journalist David Wallace-Wells.
David's 2017 best-selling book The Uninhabitable Earth began with the now-famous line “it is worse, much worse, than you think.” It then goes on to set out in rich and forensic detail what the impacts of climate change could be for our politics, our culture, our economy, and our psychology. It's one hell of a book and comes highly recommended, especially as more and more countries come forward with emissions reduction pledges.
The Uninhabitable Earth started life as an article for the New Yorker. Within a couple of days of publication, it was the most-read article the magazine had ever published. Four years after writing it, what gives David hope that we can avoid the worst impacts of the climate crisis and build a better, cleaner future for his young kids?
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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This week James catches up with world-renowned climate scientist and science writer, Dr. Kate Marvel.
Kate is research scientist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies and a professor at Columbia University’s Department of Applied Physics and Mathematics.
One of the reasons for inviting Kate on the show was to get to the bottom of how a climate model works. How can we know with any certainty what we are doing to the planet – and why are there still some things that we do not know for sure? What role do the oceans play? Why a hotter planet is more conducive to natural disasters? What are the differences between a world that experiences a 2°C temperature increase as opposed to a 5°C temperature increase?
As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at [email protected].
Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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Kia ora!
Welcome back for the second series of What Comes After What Comes Next, Aotearoa New Zealand's number one podcast about how we tackle the climate crisis and renew our economies in a post-pandemic world.
To kick off series two James catches up with "probably the most important economist in the world"* Professor Jeffrey Sachs.
*according to the New York Times, no less.
James chatted to Jeff about climate change, global trade, and geo-politics. So, you know, just a couple of light topics to get you into series two. Hope you enjoy it.
For those of you who do not know him, Professor Sachs is the Director of the Centre for Sustainable Development at Columbia University and over the course of his career has served as Special Advisor to three UN Secretaries-General.
He has also authored some of the world’s most influential book on economics, development, and climate change, and counts President Biden and John Kerry as good friends.
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Series two drops this Saturday. Look forward to joining you then!
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As we weather the economic storm of the COVID-19 pandemic, the climate crisis continues to loom large. We also face a biodiversity crisis and a crisis of deepening poverty.
The good news is that all of these crises can be solved together and that is very much the message of this week's guest, Bill McKibben. And he certainly knows what he is talking about.
In 1988, Bill wrote The End of Nature - the first book for a common audience about global warming. He also co-founded 350.org, an international climate campaign that works in 188 countries around the world, including in Aotearoa New Zealand.
I actually spoke to Bill in April, when Aotearoa New Zealand was in lockdown. So, whilst the day-to-day context has changed, the long-term issues we discuss are still very much with us.
This is the final episode of series one of the podcast. We hope to be in a position to bring you series two very soon. In the meantime, enjoy this fascinating conversation with one of the world's leading environmental thinkers and activists.
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With the US election just around the corner, James speaks to the journalist and political commentator Ezra Klein about political polarisation and climate change.
Ezra is the founder and editor-at-large of Vox.com, the award-winning explanatory news organisation.
He is the host of the excellent podcast the Ezra Klein Show and recently published the book Why We’re Polarised, which draws from history, political science and psychology to carefully explain how different groups of Americans can see politics through such different lenses.
Joe Biden said recently in his convention speech that “we can and we will deal with climate change.” I hope you find this episode helpful for understanding our current moment – what is at stake and what we can do about it.
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The US is a leader on climate change – just not where you might think.
Cities, states, and businesses are America’s climate innovators, deploying bottom-up solutions - and working with legislatures, city councils, and corporate boards to drive the transition to a low carbon economy.
There is one state in particular that often comes to mind when thinking about climate action in the US, and that’s California.
This week James talks to one of the architects of California's climate action - the former California State Senator Fran Pavley.
Fran served 29 years in elected office including 14 years in the California Assembly and the State Senate, during which she authored some of the most significant climate policies anywhere in the US.
This is a really interesting conversation that provides some hope about US leadership on climate change.
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James chats to the writer and activist George Monbiot.
A self-described "professional troublemaker," George Monbiot has been writing about climate change, the natural environment, and the economy for more than 35 years. As you’ll hear, he remains deeply concerned about the dangers of climate breakdown. However he is clear that we can change, that we can do things differently.
He captured this brilliantly in a recent TEDTalk he gave where he draws on findings from psychology, neuroscience and evolutionary biology, to offer a new vision for society built around our fundamental capacity for altruism and cooperation.
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This week James talks with the physicist, ecologist, activist and writer Dr. Vandana Shiva about the future of agriculture and the role of gender in environmental politics.
During the conversation Dr. Shiva talks about her concept of “Earth Democracy.” Earth Democracy is rooted in the ancient Indian concept of Vasudhaiva kutumkam, the earth family. As one family, all beings have equal rights to sustenance through the gifts of the earth. Its three components: economy, environment, and people, must be in balance to maintain sustainability. It is a truly inspiring vision.
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So far we've talked to campaigners, economists and business people about how we tackle the climate crisis in a post-pandemic world.
This week we've got something a little bit different for you. James catches up with the legendary producer Brian Eno and talks to him about the role art can play in helping us understand and tackle climate change.
Brian also shares some fascinating ideas about how different models and structures for making music can teach us how to better organise society and politics. This is one not to be missed.
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This week James talks to the legendary primatologist and conservationist Dr. Jane Goodall.
Dr. Goodall has pioneered work in community-centered conservation and sustainable development projects. Here she talks about the power of individual action, and the important relationship between poverty reduction and protecting the environment.
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Jane Goodall Institute
Roots and Shoots
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This week James talks to the former Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney.
Mark's term as head of the Bank of England ended in January 2020. Soon after, he was appointed as the lead financial advisor for the next global climate talks in Glasgow 2021.
Mark has been hugely influential in ensuring global financial markets understand their exposure to climate risk and develop strategies to avert them.
Alongside Michael Bloomberg, Mark established the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures, which has influenced governments all over the world, including our own here in New Zealand where we have been looking at introducing a system of climate reporting for financial firms and listed companies.
As always, feel free to get in touch at [email protected].
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This week James talks to the brilliant economist Kate Raworth.
Kate will probably be best known to most listeners for her hugely influential book Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist. The ideas in this book have travelled all over the world and are shaping government policy making.
This is a conversation about how we can build a better future where the goal of economic activity is about meeting the needs of all within the limits of the planet.
As always, feel free to get in touch at [email protected].
Doughnut Economics
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This week James talks to the award-winning journalist and bestselling author Naomi Klein.
Naomi has spent two decades documenting the transformations that take place under the cover of disaster. She has also written extensively about how tackling the climate crisis can both create jobs and make the economy much fairer and more equitable.
James and Naomi started their conversation by talking about how the Covid-19 pandemic is remaking what governments and corporations see as possible. Naomi has talked a lot about how this change has mainly been for the worst — but, as you will hear, this does not need be the case in the future.
This is a hopeful conversation about how we can use this moment to tackle the climate crisis, create thousands of new jobs, address inequality, and make life better for everyone.
On Fire: The Burning Case for a Green New Deal
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Welcome to episode number two of What Comes After What Comes Next.
This week I am joined by Christiana Figueres, the former head of the UN convention on climate change who spearheaded the talks that led to the historic Paris Agreement.
Our conversation focused how we can rebuild from the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic to create a better, cleaner, and fairer economy.
James Shaw is New Zealand's Minister for Climate Change and co-leader of the Green Party. Feel free to get in touch any time [email protected].
Check out Christiana's new book The Future We Choose and her podcast Outrage and Optimism.
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