![#23: Kristen Oberly, Enneagram 9 – Dreamwork, Depersonalization, and Coming (Back to) Life via the Unconscious [SO/SP 9w1 963]](https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts122/v4/d2/d5/1e/d2d51e93-2f4d-1b74-114c-a087fc33cd1a/mza_4273599423475025824.jpeg/250x250bb.jpg)
Episodes
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Tracy Einstein is a Somatic Experiencing® practitioner and Alexander Technique teacher. We talk all about the body, how it holds and releases trauma, and the way she works with clients. Enjoy.
Tracy's Website
https://tracyeinstein.com/The Enneagram School
https://theenneagramschool.com/Deb Dana's info
https://rhythmofregulation.com/Book mentioned
Nurturing Resilience: Helping Clients Move Forward from Developmental Trauma--An Integrative Somatic Approach by Kathy Kain & Stephen TerrellTimestamps
0:00 Intro
2:49 Our Body-blind culture
4:22 Tracy's journey to body work
7:44 The Preverbal universe
11:22 What is Alexander Technique?
15:00 Debauched Kinsethesia
18:03 Optimal Use
27:22 Endgaining -- how being too results oriented sabotages the work
30:37 The Enneagram Centers (Body, Heart, Mind)
32:22 Opening up superhighway between brain and body
34:48 What is somatic experiencing? (Letting body process without mental self-consciousness) 40:00 Tracy's practitioner lens -- what she notices
47:50 What is Polyvagal Theory?
51:31 You have to disengage social posturing to sense within
54:09 Many paths to regulation -- arguably the point of all modalities
56:46 Centering your own healing as practitioner is crucial; very clear lesson from AT because of body to body transference
58:57 Alexander Training
1:02:17 Having kid -- noticing what we learn before words -- the preverbal universe is the foundation of our lives
1:05:01 The terrible gift of trauma -- & the structure of society creates impossible parenting situations
1:09:07 You might not understand what's shifting somatically but don't need to -- body vs mental intelligence (or left vs right brain)
1:12:04 Final reflections
1:12:50 Plugs & Resources!
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Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #alexandertechnique #somatic #somaticexperiencing
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Kristen Oberly & Kaisa Jauhiainen -- aka The Dream Girls (minus Sammy!) -- are brilliant pioneers who have discovered the connection between their unconscious dream worlds and their instinctual drives and Enneagram type, and they have convinced me of the power of working with Dreams for personal transformation. They are offering a class through the Enneagram School starting 9/15 to help you develop a creative relationship with your unconscious.
Timestamps
0:00 intro
3:37 Interview Start
4:15 Josh's Dream
17:12 Dream Ego vs what the unconscious is really saying
24:24 social 3 material in Josh's dream
27:59 Josh's skepticism -- are dream symbols really universal?
33:08 Dreams create your personal mythology
38:41 What the unconscious perspective adds to Enneagram
45:22 Kaisa's life since working with dreams
48:51 FIRST to apply jungian dream analysis to personality in this way
51:01 Dreamgirls' synchronized dreaming, unconscious to unconscious connections
55:22 Dreamwork as path to individuation and, surprisingly, the body
58:56 Individuation needs the unconscious perspective
1:02:44 Dreams are creative and freeing; Overcoming inner work fatigue
1:06:49 Kaisa's creative relationship with dreams -- becoming more grounded
1:13:07 All about their class
1:21:25 Outro & Plugs!
#dreams #enneagram #innerwork #growth #dreams
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Episodes manquant?
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"I'm a manifester like nobody is.... No doesn't work for me. I don't even know what no means. No means I gotta think about it in a different way."
Kim Jozwiak [SP/SO 7w6 712] is a therapist and trauma survivor whose life story blew me away. As a therapist, she works with EMDR therapy, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and various forms of mindfulness. We discuss her life story, her trauma, and how she settled her mental center and grounded herself. Enjoy.
Kim's Website
www.kimberlyjozwiak.comThe Enneagram School
https://www.theenneagramschool.com/Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:48 Sweaty hands to start, nervous, "I've always been a runner"
6:08 7 interpretation of arousal unlikely to be "I'm anxious," more positive framing, buzzing exhilaration
9:01 Haircutting after trauma; mom's response, "Just trust in the Lord!"
11:24 Kim's "parts" consent to tell her life story; mom's brain injury 1 year before pregnant with me
15:41 Being molested & later symptoms, social anxiety
20:22 7 with triple super-ego (1, 2, 6) + disorganized attachment; repulsed when others merge with me
24:25 True crime fascination as counter-phobic response to be near psychological pay-dirt; "President of the misfits"
27:11 Traumatic middle school years: "instant love affair" with pot, alcohol; being taken advantage of; dad dies, religious gaslighting
33:43 Hiding overwhelmed self; NO ONE KNEW; checked out mother praying over me in tongues
37:09 "I'm amazing at not getting caught." 7 ability to get what I want; "I will not be trapped by not having enough money" -- the only friend with a job; SP awareness
41:55 From insincere faker to genuine "Jesus freak" - The Billy Graham Crusade and Kim's religious awakening (at 16)
46:43 Josh making sense of Kim's awakening, given previous religious gaslighting
50:32 Despite being pied piper leader, so disconnected that barely remember those people
52:55 The risky 7 way she moved to Chicago after high school
55:47 Flight energy -- "I can't be here. It'll be better somewhere else." Keep moving, "No one's gonna trap me."
58:28 Personality as survival mechanism
1:00:07 "I meet a boy" -- Christian morality, get married bc we're having sex (6 wing); inner split; difficult marriage, intensified drinking; "I kept moving, job to job, skimmed it all, didn't leave room for digestion"
1:06:03 Couples therapy - first time in therapy at all -- then met Joe 1:09:58 Self-abandonment, trauma-based; "should" vs "want"
1:13:41 7 mental "digitization" of others, not truly seeing others, creating suffering; 7-2 stem; in relationship with a 2
1:16:48 The conscious practice of connecting -- can only connect to other when I'm connected to my body
1:19:02 Therapy with Steve the 8 -- into the body; Being a mental type in therapy, getting past the "froth" to the substance
1:24:31 EMDR therapy -- a method for mental types! 1:32:26 Asking for what I want at my job
1:37:40 Equine therapy, "I'm a manifester" "No doesn't work for me"; drinking a lot of wine...; couldn't crawl out of depression
1:41:39 Confronting my alcohol addiction in therapy school; Going to AA, "something pierced through"; Gluttony leads to entrapment
1:53:49 Sober, vegan therapist -- living from inside out now, aligned to heart
1:57:30 7 Virtue of Sobriety, settled inner state "vs" the frothy mental center activity; IFS helps (!)
2:01:11 IFS similar to working with horses
2:05:03 7 awareness of darkness
2:08:31 How do you know when you're being wise and clear vs cluttered and frothy?
2:13:10 What's this been like?
2:15: 31 Kim's "Angel of Death" -- the part that gave Kim permission
2:17:49 Final Reflections
2:19:06 Plugs
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram7 #type7
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Join John Luckovich and Alexandra Arroyo-Acevedo for a Summertime class on the Sexual Instinct at The Enneagram School.
Class Website
https://www.theenneagramschool.com/sexual-instinct-classJohn Luckovich [SX/SP 4w5] is Co-Founder of The Enneagram School, author of The Instinctual Drives and the Enneagram, and co-host on the Big Hormone Enneagram podcast.
Alexandra Arroyo-Acevedo [SO/SP 9w1] is a co-host on the Big Hormone Enneagram Podcast. She also does personal Astrology readings and Enneagram-based commentary on reality shows like the Bachelorette.
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:18 What are the instincts & instinctual stacking?
3:06 What the course is about
4:55 Interview Start — Inspiration for offering this class
7:33 Why develop your sexual instinct?
12:15 Sexual value vs social and self-pres value
14:10 Sexual energy is being your own fun
19:39 Sexual instinct is play; combatting societal shame for frivolous pleasure
21:20 What’s scary about the sexual instinct
26:43 Polarities — you have to be in yourself to occupy a pole
31:46 How different stackings approach sex
37:31 Heart & the instincts; being yourself and losing yourself
40:42 Purpose & sacredness in pleasure, surrendering to enjoyment
45:07 One way doors, loss of self and transformation
46:17 Masculine & feminine polarity
55:14 Polarity is exciting, creates tension
58:59 Balancing the sexual instinct as SX blind vs SX dominant
1:08:31 Practices in the course; differentiating instincts via sensation; reinforcing sexual instinct through personal aesthetic and display
1:15:49 Importance of this topic for society
1:18:20 Class Info
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Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #instincts
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"I think it's my purpose in life to leave an imprint on people or places I go. Maybe it's like little seeds that I plant or pixie dust I spread around and it blooms a little bit. I just love that."
Full Title: Chanti, Type 7 - Magically Enhancing My Environment, Having Fun, and Getting (Away With) What I Want
Chanti [SX/SP 7w6 794] is a fascinating and magical human being living in Belgium. We explore how how assertive Chanti can be about her priorities, the difference between frustration and attachment perspectives, and the centrality of her aesthetic impact to her identity. Enjoy. Note: I make a mistake in the first minute, calling Chanti "social first." She is sexual first.
Chanti's Links
YouTube: @MOONFLOWER_asmr
Insta: @moonflowerchantiThe Enneagram School
https://www.theenneagramschool.com/Timestamps
0:00 Intro
3:10 Magically enhancing the space between us
10:57 Bumping heads with 6s, being assertive about standards of art, creativity
14:12 Frustration with 6 colleague about "having to be grateful to boss" for being "allowed" to go on a trip
16:43 Chanti vs Josh's "rule-following" disposition (Frustration vs Attachment)
20: 14 "When people like me I can do whatever I want"; but when charm doesn't work, gets under my skin
26:11 Social blind 7 moment
36:05 Being low superego, story of family, brother's expectation (Frustration vs Attachment) -- low "obligation" energy
44:35 Rationalizing vs coming from sincere inner place
48:27 Chanti's values "vs" Responsibility
52:42 Other's "shoulds" about contraint, my "shoulds" about freedom
56:24 Convincing myself "why I should do something," asking for permission til I get yes (6 wing)
59:41 New nourishment -- social, listening, attunement in relationship
1:08:32 Hidden Social/Heart suffering when others don't value me for my aesthetic contributions
1:18:27 Our SO/SP 3 vs SX/SP 7 conversation dynamic
1:21:12 Chanti's ASMR
1:26:48 Not fun to be social or 6-fixed? ...
1:30:44 Outro & plugs!
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Music by Coma-Media from
Pixabay Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram7 #type7
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"When we live inside a pattern, we don't know that we're living inside a pattern, which is why it's hard for people to type themselves. We just think that's reality. It's like the Johari box, there's what we don't know what we don't know. And I didn't know how desperately disconnected I was. I didn't feel as a child that was missing out on anything. I thought I was just fine. I thought watching the ants was more interesting."
Russ Hudson co-authored The Wisdom of the Enneagram and other Enneagram classics with his longtime collaborator Don Riso. He is also the Co-Founder of the Enneagram Institute and the Founding Director and former Vice President of the International Enneagram Association. Russ has appeared on Good Morning America and The CBS Morning Show and is a popular speaker at conferences and retreat centers around the world including the Esalen Institute, the Wisdom 2.0 Conference, and the Science and Non-Duality Conference (SAND).
Russ Hudson
https://russhudson.com/The Enneagram School
https://theenneagramschool.com/Get Typed
https://www.enneagrammer.com/get-typed/Time Stamps
0:00 Intro
2:52: Interview Start — Discovering I was a 5
8:41 The “Ouch” of facing my disconnection
11:03 Spending time alone in childhood, not feeling like I was missing out
14:03 Hard to feel genuine connection or belonging
16:49 Connection problem not fixable on level of personality; not "safe" around people
18:08 Russ' emotional breakthrough & receiving holding
23:35 Love present even when people are deluded or in personality
25:15 Reconciling science & religion since childhood
30:03 Mystery: why some people shrug off experiences but others are transformed -- 5 judgement of others’ valuing their ignorance
32:43 Touch overwhelming as kid — complicates romance & sex; Somatic tightness cementing social isolation
37:24 5 fear the "overwhelm of being"
40:29 Inner experience of escaping to emptiness
43:05 Mental density or emptiness polarity — penetrating into the void
47:30 The experience of discovery, illumination
50:32 The gift & danger of Russ's meticulous memory
52:48 Romance & relationships; merging with ambivalence
57:04 Unsentimental realism / non-attachment "vs" nihilism, cynicism, eject from world
1:00:27 5 Uncooperativeness “vs” flexing for relationship
1:03:51 How Russ relate to your publicness as a 5?
1:06:26 Avarice, withholding of self; withdrawal is rapid and intense
1:11:20 Growing edge: SP blindspot; keeping hope, fighting natural tendency for cynicism; "reasons to be cheerful”
1:17:40 Are you still interested in the enneagram?
1:19:36 The practical angle of creativity
1:21:55 Impractical interests
1:25:46 Plugs
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram5 #type5
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“I simply drove to this person’s house right away when I was feeling this rejection and said, listen I’m sitting outside in the car if you want to come out and talk. You know, but I didn’t go to the door and knock. I didn’t want to intrude. I want to respect his freedom. But at the same time I want to say “Hey let’s move on and see what’s happening, and if things need to shift and if I have missed some things, please.”
Bob Fecas [SO/SP 2w1 279] is a spiritual advisor, mentor, and teacher of philosophy and theology in the Atlanta area for over 25 years.
Bob’s Website
https://www.bobfecas.com/The Enneagram School
https://theenneagramschool.com/Get Officially Typed by Enneagrammer
https://www.enneagrammer.com/get-typedTimestamps
0:00 Intro
1:54 Losing Friends & having a "special place" others' life
5:22 Relational disappointment on 70th birthday
7:36 Response when others become “removed"; driving to their house
12:32 Hand on student's shoulder
15:05 Positive Outlook: Expecting relational patch ups
16:53 Helping to help or to feel appreciated?
19:12 Faith — human disappointments couched by a higher love
24:53 Grief & exploring the insincerity of 2
30:36 Being inspired by the Saints; goodness, giving
35:14 Being a teacher — students over content
38:30 Bob's 2-ish compliment to Josh
39:37 Bob's joi d'vivre; physical contact with all
42:15 Gift of making personal contact, even in “discipline"
44:54 Teaching philosophy, relationship with student central
47:59 Relationship as reason to live; as teacher, engaging the unengaged
54:22 The 4 types of teachers 56:38 Another compliment from Bob
57:11 Excellent 2 superego example
58:32 2s being "hypocrites," insincere; 2 image vs identity
1:00:35 Bob's humanness relative to inspiring saints
1:04:00 Owning vs avoiding negative emotions; real vs fake positivity
1:10:42 How do you know when you're spiritually bypassing
1:16:05 What's the most unhealthy you've been psychologically?
1:20:58 Parsing Crises of Meaning vs "going down the levels"
1:25:00 Emptiness underneath the image
1:29:14 Thanks & Salutations
1:31:16 Plugs
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagram2 #enneagramtypes
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"I've often heard people talk about The Work of Byron Katie as the "how"... there's the "what" of spiritual development... you know freedom, what it looks like... it's described so well in terms of Essence in the Enneagram. There are many ways to talk about it in many traditions. And there are many ways in terms of the how. But Byron Katie's is such a simple and accessible how. Like, take this step, follow this step, go through these little points... and there's often some evolution happening in just 20-30 minutes."
Todd Smith is a facilitator of The Work of Byron Katie -- one of the most powerful methods of inner work I've encountered. We discuss what it is, demo it, and debrief. Enjoy.
Todd's Links
https://theworkasmeditation.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wiggle-room/id1612348594The Enneagram School
https://theenneagramschool.com/Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:21 Overview of The Work
6:22 Starting The Work -- Josh's stressful dinner
14:21 Unpacking the stressful moment - emotional interpretation, finding the right words
17:25 Judge Your Neighbor Worksheet Line 1 (there are 6 lines total)
20:49 Line 2
22:33 Line 3
28:27 Line 4
31:32 Line 5
33:35 Line 6
37:42 The 4 Questions - "Be in that moment" as you answer
39:21 Question 1
42:44 Question 3
44:37 Catching myself "performing"
55:19 The Turnarounds
56:47 Turnaround 1
1:02:14 Turnaround 2
1:11:06 Heart Center "Image" in the work
1:14:12 Turnaround 3
1:15:36 Summary of The Work
1:20:01 The Work is top practice but resisted; attachment to suffering
1:27:02 Todd's reflection on enneagram & the work
1:31:20 The 3 Centers & The Work
1:39:07 The Work & Gendlin's Focusing (finding the right words)
1:48:34 The power of allowing the tantrum
1:47:09 The practice vs "image" of having an open mind
1:51:13 Diagnosis not same as cure
1:56:23 The Work & Adult Ego Development
2:02:44 We approach inner work in the style of our type
2:09:45 Salutations
2:12:55 Plugs
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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#enneagram #enneagramtypes #thework #byronkatie #mindfulness #presence #innerwork
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Sandy Jahmi Burg is a facilitator of Gendlin's Focusing -- the most powerful method of tapping into body intelligence that I've encountered. In this interview, we define it, demo it, and debrief. Enjoy.
Sandy's Website
https://learnfocusing.org/The Enneagram School
https://www.theenneagramschool.com/Timestamps
0:00 Intro
3:46 What is Focusing?
6:30 The "felt-sense" implies "life-forward" movement
10:02 The importance of being "in relationship" with the felt sense
12:13 Making an invitation as you enter a Focusing session
13:35 Demo - Lead in & invitation, creating conditions for a felt sense to arrive
18:33 Demo - The first felt sense, "taking our understanding back" to our bodies
20:08 Demo - Making contact & letting it know you hear it, "Getting into relationship"
24:06 Demo - Acknowledging & getting "bigger than"
25:37 Demo - Responding to how it sees you
28:19 Demo - It's "message" for me
32:11 Wordless metabolizing; sitting in the "solution" state, not the problem
35:00 Setting an intention vs inhabiting a way of being
38:26 What the hell just happened? - The "steps" in a Focusing Journey
39:24 The grocery store analogy; Discovering, making contact, coming into relationship, experiencing shift
49:12 The leap of faith -- acknowledging what arises as sentient entities
51:00 Parts Work & the "Self" (capital S); on being merged with a part & getting "bigger than" it
54:58 The "result" of a focusing session: before, merged; after, in relationship
59:50 The facilitator's POV: tracking, giving prompts, helping Focuser get into relationship
1:08:29 On "checking back" with the body; when something feels understood and accepted for how it is now, that's what releases it to shift
1:11:56 when something feels understood and accepted for how it is now, that's what releases it to shift
1:20:15 How to work with Sandy
1:21:59 Plugs
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Yamira [SO/SX 5w4 531] is an artist in New York. Watch this interview on YouTube so you can see Yamira's art as she talks about it.
Yamira's links
https://www.mossyscabs.com/
@mossyscabs
@_brujajaThe Enneagram School
https://theenneagramschool.com/Get Officially Typed by Enneagrammer
https://www.enneagrammer.com/get-typedTimestamps
0:00 Intro
1:49 Why make art?
7:34 Grief losing whole portfolio of art (!)
10:49 What was the Grief like?
12:09 On delaying "dealing with the grief"
13:55 Facing fear and becoming a more "public" person
15:15 5 themes - cerebralizing emotions; privacy
16:50 Becoming more "public" by working at a restaurant
19:51 Wanting to be known; (re)-introducing myself through art
23:19 High stakes art has my Self in it (vs impersonal, low stakes art)
24:29 Example of "lower stakes" art
28:44 Yamira's burrowing 5 mind; getting to more clarity & precision
30:59 What did you learn about grief? -- and how that changed the art
36:13 Yamira's redemptive post-grief arc
37:35 Tattooing, want my art to help people (Though not the why)
40:16 Beauty inherently helps people
41:45 The intimacy of tattoo art; how collaborative?
46:01 Realizing it can be good to share yourself with others. "Didn't used to care about it"
51:22 Overcoming natural tendency NOT to share; childhood memories of rejection
55:49 Social life as an adult
58:55 Others as "aliens"
1:01:30 From isolation to intimacy; "can't respect everyone" (& inner critic backlash); I want to have
fun together but not be clowns
1:06:42 Merriment! - SO/SX with 1 fix - "We should be enjoying ourselves!"
1:11:06 What's this been like?
1:14:48 Plugs
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Kelly Ayadi [SO/SX 5w6 512] is frequenter of online Enneagram forums and a somewhat more "relational" type 5 than might be typical, given her double-people instinctual stacking and 2 fix. In this conversation, we talk about her childhood "doing her own thing" and her relationship with her 9 partner, her kids, and her family. Kelly's framing of certain emotions as "unnecessary" is illuminating, as is her relationship with expressing love in a way that reaches the other person and appreciation for acts of kindness from her partner. I feel this conversation is very helpful in showing how 5s differ from 9s, and more broadly how 5s operate in relationship via rejection in the mental center.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/my3JxeaIHvM
Get Typed: https://www.enneagrammer.com/get-typed
The Enneagram School: https://www.theenneagramschool.com/
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:42 Little Kelly
5:45 Kelly's work at dept of human services
8:19 Conversation anchorpoints
9:13 "Professional student," doing my own path, not having to deal with outside noise & relationships
13:13 People-y stacking "vs" 5 private, uncooperative
15:51 Drone operator as 5 metaphor
17:26 Not wanting to be touched; doing own thing
21:58 What is my "own thing"? People fascination
24:32 Partner as specimen(?)
27:18 Withdrawing in relationship, won't compromise self
30:35 Our Courtship; defending me online was "unnecessary"
35:16 Rejection-Attachment dynamic in relationship; appreciating "unnecessary" kindness
41:52 Untouchable independence; emotional neutrality
44:19 Unpacking "Unnecessary"
46:54 Fantasy of lower emotionality everywhere
49:43 Not entering other's frame (Avarice); non-reciprocal expectations: "you come to me, I don't go to you"
53:15 First relationship I *want* to make work; becoming more flexible?
59:37 Entering others frame as rejection type
1:02:16 Painful learning I wasn't a "Nurturing" mom
1:05:27 I want to be loving but don't know how
1:10:15 Were you nurtured? Did it matter?
1:13:46 Pain of not being seen as competent; disconnect about "What matters?"
1:20:26 Pain being the black sheep the "off" one
1:22:00 A good moment with her father
1:24:36 Kelly/Josh's responses to her "heartwarming" story
1:29:43 Intellectually framing experience before I can feel it - what's helped?
1:33:05 What's this been like for you?
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagramtype5 #enneagram5 #enneagraminterview
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I present to you the audio of the infamous Mascara Incident (which we don't talk about). This was recorded in December 2022, about 9 months before Courtney's official video interview. In this conversation, we explore Courtney's experience as an Attachment type in the Mental center, her typing journey (starting at 1, landing on 6), and her 6-ish journey to uncovering original insights about Object Relations and sharing them on the Big Hormone Enneagram podcast. We also touch on Alexander Technique and other grounding practices that helped Courtney discover her Inner Authority and her body's ability to discern Truth.
Courtney's Website: courtneysmithconsulting.com
The Enneagram School: https://www.theenneagramschool.com/
Courtney on BHE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bhe-36-object-relations-daggers-to-the-heart-part-1/id1493756268?i=1000489894365
Get typed: https://www.enneagrammer.com/get-typed
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:27 Enneagram origin story; conscious leadership group; resisting 6, mistyping as 1 (hopeful identification, similar to 9->4)
8:17 How'd you realize you were a 6?
11:40 Complexity around 6 & "Inner Guidance" --> journey to 6 demonstrating 6's relationship with "authority," attachment & reactivity together, argumentativeness, "pressure-testing"
15:47 What builds trust -- ENGAGEMENT, willingness to engage -- "Are you gonna play that game with me?"; wanting other to be certain, yet also willing to meet me in uncertainty
19:19 Stamina for this kind of "engaging"
20:33 Looking for stability, "up there" in the mental space, where you can't find it
24:25 What's helped you ground? Footwork, balance, improving sensation, Alexander Technique, Letting the breath catch up with the mind
28:12 What is Alexander Technique? Why good for 6?
33:40 "Over-muscling": the body creating a false anchor from the mind being overused
38:02 Working with 6s, coach's pov; kinesthetic modeling; how are *you* showing up as coach?
41:53 Exploring: being settled in your own energy as a coach vs "entering their storm"
45:27 On Courtney claiming her inner authority, making discoveries in Object Relations, sharing on BHE
50:27 6 seeking coherence in the map
55:28 Why so important for things to make sense? Fear of randomness; "Faith" that "the pieces should fit together
58:30 Exploring attachment, Courtney's obsessive journey of discovering her insights; attachment, denial of self, responding to parental failure
1:02:21 Courtney's Object Relations insights applied to herself; energy towards maintaining "good relationships," but "on what terms?"
1:04:28 Examples!: mindful of teacher's perspectives, wary to contradict, assuming my ideas are derivative; how do I say something without saying others are wrong? (which compromises relationship)
1:10:49 Putting relationship at risk by having a different view
1:14:26 Courtney's 5 wing
1:21:50 What's it like now to have "exposed yourself as an authority?" .. Resistance to claiming it
1:26:26 Why does someone *want* to be an authority?
1:29:35 Tension between my 3 & Courtney's 6 in seeing her as an authority
1:36:29 Texture on words that originally had no juice for Courtney: Attachment, Support, Loyalty, Duty, Responsibility
1:42:44 Heart vs Head Center main preoccupation
1:45:41 Thank you's
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Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram6 #enneagramtype6 #enneagraminterview
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Courtney Smith [SO/SP 6w5 631] is a brilliant & original Enneagram thinker who has contributed hugely to our understanding of Object Relations. In this conversation, we explore her life as a 6 navigating her desire to work within systems and to rebel against them, and ultimately cultivating a more grounded relationship to her inner authority. Courtney's insights are illuminating and penetrating as always.
Courtney's Website: courtneysmithconsulting.com
YouTube Version of Interview: https://youtu.be/FQ418io7E7A
https://www.theenneagramschool.com/
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:15 Interview Start & Josh's messy hair
4:30 Setting up Courtney's biography
5:36 Do you hold a sense of your life story as a 6?
6:53 Professional trajectory as the way in; family all doctors & lawyers roles, safe, traditional
8:22 Law school, annoying incongruence, "It'd be easier if I liked this!"
9:23 Gender & Enneagram lens in college, split & trying to integrate analytical & quantitative, only-women-in-math-class and no-men-in-women's-studies; what's my place?
10:30 8 yrs old, "Mom, I'm not gonna stay here" -- wanting out, but not knowing "What do you want to go toward?"
13:20 Courtney's choice of major and minor mathematical economics & women's studies, navigating polarities; qualitative/quantitative, men/women
17:20 "Trying to have it both ways": high achieving within a system & rebelling against the system
20:23 At McKinsey, working super hard, doing what I'm "supposed to do," and disagreeing with it all
25:44 "If it's listened to..."; 6s feeling a lack of agency to shape reality, not willing to risk external authority's alliance; "There's nothing I can do about this. I have no choice."
31:16 Josh's 6 fix relating
33:52 Considered med school, then had baby - focus on reproductive justice, planned parenthood
36:09 focusing only on family was a "bad choice for me" -- left behind key aspects of self
38:33 Self-abandonment: Not taking responsibility for poor choices; "I had no choice!"; none of the credit, none of the blame
43:12 Shift of personal development work, conscious leadership group; "I have to take responsibility" for where I am
46:19 Before and after inner work; changed my life, but "your shit is your shit," esp in "real life" raising kids, home during covid, etc -- you get a new relationship to your patterns
52:11 Relationship now to public health, new life as coach
54:11 New relationship to the inner storm, reactivity; part of me watching myself have a tantrum, not taking it too seriously
57:39 Courtney's playfulness 1:00:30 6s & body work; getting lost in idea-space and finding the inner compass somatically; "Truth lies in the body"
1:07:47 Compulsive reading; skepticism: "I wanna check this out for myself," check people's sources, put the picture together from the ground up
1:11:32 6's devotional heart, contributing to greater whole
1:13:34 On working alone; not questioning life path any more, but still micro-questions about form of current work
1:16:37 Courtney the dragon; being myself the biggest gift I can give
1:20:37 Safari experience: "What you're transmitting is amazing and has nothing to do with your words"; Ian McGilchrist book, left-right brain language - non-language communication
1:28:00 What's this been like?
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram6 #enneagramtype6 #enneagraminterview
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Siena Hassett [SX/SO 8w7 827] is a Theatre Maker, Movement Artist, and someone who really embodies the virtue of the 8 -- Innocence: the joyful unselfconscious expression of one's life-force, and the willingness to be affected by one's environment. Siena is so alive and engaging, and I couldn't help but be moved by her wide open presence in this conversation. I really appreciate how we moved from "caricaturing" her 8ness in the first 15 minutes to unveiling her real sensitivity and heart, especially as we explore her relationship to her art -- and how we navigated that transition together. I'm very proud to release this conversation. This is what it's all about. Enjoy.
https://sienahassett.com/
www.theenneagramschool.com
www.joshlavine.comListen as podcast: https://www.joshlavine.com/podcasts/what-it-s-like-to-be-you/episodes/2148078776
---
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:54 Open ended start: what's your type and why is it true? "Going through the object"
7:10 8 connection to action
11:20 Fear of "deadness," Amping up the situation
15:11 Taking a minute; new direction: life story from college
20:13 Movement art; why apply to corporeal mime school?
21:44 Professor: "I miss having you cry in class."
23:33 Radical decision, moving for this program; "It's what the work needed," SX instinct
26:45 Program before/after, sense of ease, freedom
29:22 Why so passionate about movement art? "It's what my body wants to do"
31:23 Alive moments with the audience; being with the people that night -- my favorite thing
34:08 "What it is tonight"; "What's here right now?"
39:05 Enneagram boxiness vs aliveness -- exploring Siena as an *artist* reveals her 8 gifts; exploring Siena as an *8* lends to caricature
42:58 Being in the river; quality of stillness
43:55 What does it feel like when the search (for aliveness) isn't going well?
47:05 Legs
51:32 This moment feels really beautiful
56:42 Why do we forget to be present? 58:47 Picking fights -- what's it like? why does it happen?
1:05:47 Mystery of fighting -- sometimes useful, sometimes not; over- and under-expressing anger
1:08:24 "My body gets so hot inside so fast"; Hard to sit with the anger; 2 stories - retail, & guy with a dog
1:12:39 Inner work for 8; expanding window of tolerance for the heat, not being run by the reflex
1:18:21 Innocence of the 8
1:19:39 What was this like for you?
1:21:26 Birth story -- fighting for my life
1:25:14 When I feel received, I can receive
1:26:41 Final thoughts & thank yous
--
#enneagram #enneagram8 #enneagramtypes #enneagrameight #enneagramtype8
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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Alexandra Arroyo-Acevedo [SO/SP 9w1 963] is a brilliant Enneagram thinker with a very evocative and inspiring triple attachment life story. There’s no one I trust more to explain Attachment from the inside. Alexandra’s insights have been transformative for me, and for many in our community. Find her on the Big Hormone Enneagram podcast, on YouTube doing Enneagram breakdowns of the Bachelorette, and on her website, where you can book a natal chart reading with her as well.
Alexandra's Website: http://saturnruled9.com/
Alexandra's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@saturnruled9
Big Hormone Enneagram Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/big-hormone-enneagram/id1493756268The Enneagram School: www.theenneagramschool.com
Josh Lavine: www.joshlavine.comWatch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/EhHqHEIJdqU
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:49 Attachment Support Group Plug
6:03 What happened the first time we tried this interview
10:05 What's different now?
13:23 The importance of being witnessed in playful unself-conscious states
17:08 Prompt: Alexandra’s life story as an SO Bermuda 9
18:56 I was passively accepting, not "choosing" friends / romantic partners
20:42 "Who am I to say no?" - absence of red flags, not looking for green flags; unpacking the word “danger”
24:43 Ex-fiance was "safe"; passively accepted his proposal (!); Attachment: saying yes to the possibility that we could one day be on the same page
29:50 Social 9 -- Not revealing my full mind when others’ eyes gloss over; my inner self not a match for my environment, so I don't put it out there; why 9 needs to go to 3
35:22 Attachment victimhood self-deception: "You're not making space for me" vs I'm withholding myself
37:24 Prolonging relationship: "I was really good at dividing myself”
39:03 The "atomic bomb,” meeting John; Alexandra’s self-revival through online chats about Enneagram; going to New York “the first real action ever took for myself;” framing it to myself as "It's no big deal, if it doesn't work out, I'll just come back home" preemptive defense against being affected
46:20 Numbness prevents 9 from realizing how hungry their soul is; lifeforce has intelligence independent of personality re: what's nourishing / renewing for it
50:58 The lightning strike moment, radical (fast!) change, and the illusion that I've conquered attachment
57:01 How Attachment patterns crept back in
1:00:45 Being anchored to a new rung on the consciousness ladder; not wanting to abandon your new self-sense
1:02:48 Ambivalence toward astrology from being pinned as an "astrology person" -- private sacred interest now exposed to gaze that revs attachment/performance engine
1:08:55 The "practice" of unself-conscious play
1:10:28 Autonomy insistence of 9; making free choices without pressure; knowing that a choice is "mine," made by me
1:13:59 John's mirroring of me to myself, yet constantly re-attuning to what I'm excited by
1:19:05 Social intimacy, choosing and being chosen from your constituted center, grief about emotionally distant friendships, that pattern changing
1:27:41 Sweet Friendship moments
1:30:47 What's this been like? (& how long it took to get this interview, ha!; sign off)
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1
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Kristen Oberly [SO/SP 9w1 963] is an exceptionally gifted dream analyst, artist, and guide for the unconscious realm. We explore her misdiagnosis with paranoid schizophrenia, her bouts with depersonalization, and the way she has come back home to herself by following her fascination with the unconscious. A very interesting and particular case of Social Bermuda 9, but the core 9 themes are certainly here: numbness, dissociation, and coming back to life by following the natural flow of my life force.
To Find Kristen –
Personal Website: https://www.inkstoryrebel.com/
Sinsomnia Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/cz/podcast/sinsomnia/id1684154994Josh's Links –
www.theenneagramschool.com
www.joshlavine.comWatch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Cr6-ZCd6z-Y
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
5:27 When two bermudas meet; You've made a spash; original contributions: dreams, trifix art -- SO tracking "how people earn respect in this group," getting typed
9:48 Lurking in groups; do you feel like one now? "in shock" that my contribution went anywhere
12:55 Interview anchor points: typing, misdiagnosis paranoid schizophrenia; depersonalization; living in "alternate dimension"
15:22 "She's in her own little world" growing up; hallucinations
19:40 What is paranoid schizophrenia?; relief in diagnosis, being located, "this is what I am," a thing to tell others
23:11 "Betrayal of all 3 centers"
26:10 Timeline of diagnosis & symptoms; what's depersonalization?
32:10 9-ness and depersonalization
35:35 What's helped?
37:30 Guinea pigs screaming -- a dream example that helped you come home to your body
42:31 Physical reality not affecting me, but unconscious dream world waking me up (literally)
45:02 Toggling on/off of existing; checking out
48:05 Genuine inspiration of dreams calling you back alive; Avatar Kristen, interfacing spirit world and physical reality
54:12 SO 9 - fear of making others uncomfortable?
58:38 Kristen's flow state; mastery & precision, poking the nerve, freedom from typology in her moments of interpreting dreams
1:04:52 Kristen's dark witchy vibe & "bite" contrasted with "harmonious" 9 vibe
1:10:16 Kristen's 9 Bermuda Swirl vs Josh's 3 version
1:15:48 Kristen's Art Bermuda Swirl, honing in on "archetypal" art
1:19:46 The Bermuda Swirl's Intelligence
1:26:37 What’s this been like?
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1
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Round 2 with Sarah [SO/SP 9w1 937]. A conversation ABOUT our last conversation, and a very personal look at both of our attachment games. I loved this.
Josh's Links:
www.theenneagramschool.com
www.joshlavine.comSarah's Links:
Music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0ttrZbIpLCXW7hjanhv7H8
Music: https://slagoona.bandcamp.com/
Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3x6KJ6TppG3LC9ySqFDLOs
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/slagoona_/Watch on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/vaZ95yqyUSgTimestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:29 Setting up the convo -- why we're here
7:56 First clip
9:53 Sarah pauses. "Floating on the river of meaning" swirling & managing the swirls
15:36 Second clip
16:45 Josh pauses. The moment I almost interrupted, and Sarah feels it.
17:38 More clip
20:16 Sarah pauses. Sarah's SO/SP "preachiness," desire to embrace universal themes
23:27 Sarah: "I kept going because I wasn't sure if you agreed with me"
25:54 "It's all good babe just hold on!"
27:11 The need to have all parts of me known and held (9)
29:48 More clip -- The Shift moment 31:13 Josh pauses. His skepticism that Sarah was connected to herself
33:22 Sarah: the insecurity around being perceived as insincere; calling out 9 dispersion
34:59 SO 9 desperation for social holding; Schema: want social holding -- don't get it -- disperse & numb -- harder to feel if/when I get held now
40:58 You want holding from me, but also you're angry with me -- Attachment games
44:59 Sarah getting social holding back by playing into my frame, "impressing me"
48:54 More clip -- Sarah: "I felt like I was being called a phony"
50:18 More clip -- Josh's "unskillful question"
54:20 Josh takes a breath -- his attachment pattern alive right now
59:09 More clip: "I'm saying what I think you want me to say"
1:00:28 Sarah's desire for more bobble-headedness (familiar social holding); Josh's reflex to self-recrimination when I made someone angry, "what could I have done better?" -- that question being self-abandoning in service of re-attachment strategy!; Josh's version of sarah's "cozying up"
1:06:00 The last 3 min; "I feel like I passed your test"
1:09:27 Attachment 101: Rupture and Repair Cycles; Complexity around Sincerity
1:11:12 Final moments of the interview & the necessity of *this* conversation to complete the repair
1:15:51 What is trust?
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
--- #enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1
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Sarah [SO/SP 9w1 937] is getting her PhD in psychology en route to becoming a therapist. In this conversation, Sarah is quite open and courageous in sharing what it's like for her on the inside of her "swirly 9-7 stem" energy and speaking style and her positive outlook vibes. We also how she accidentally gaslights partners without knowing it, because of how she can blur inner fantasy with outer reality. (I love this part.) We also hit a really interesting conversational glitch that put both of our type patterns on display. We unpack this in a follow up conversation, so stay tuned for round 2.
Josh's Links:
www.theenneagramschool.com
www.joshlavine.comSarah's Links:
Music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0ttrZbIpLCXW7hjanhv7H8
Music: https://slagoona.bandcamp.com/
Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3x6KJ6TppG3LC9ySqFDLOs
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/slagoona_/Watch Interview on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/g6kqGXegvB0Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:16 Getting typed, Sarah's typing journey
12:35 Positive outlook of Sarah's 9-7 stem; the facebook group's reaction to her "was an emotional event"
15:56 3 fix, wanting to be / be seen as competent, "let me join the cool kids," show people I can hang
20:02 Sarah's swirling inner cauldron of associations speaking style
22:22 One reason 9s identify as 4
23:23 Eating disorder, psychological function of controlling my attractiveness... but being labeled "sexual blind"; beauty standards more social than sexual
25:39 Why are you a 9 and not a 4? Attachment
29:14 Tone policing as SO 9w1 "asking" the environment to hold me better (socially)
30:24 Attachment to disconnect in long-term relationship; Fantasy & wanting/hoping others will show up differently
36:16 Anger as "no," finding your no
39:12 Positive Outlook "spin"; "People can't worry about me" -- I have to be okay; performative empathy/positivity "vs" sincere optimism
45:42 Unprocessed negativity comes out in close relationships (mom, partner); "I would save that all for them"; the Security Point
53:50 The fantasy image of a relationship, blurring fantasy and reality
57:17 Gaslighting & fantasy; the little girl hoping, "maybe maybe maybe," wishing reality will manifest my fantasy; "But it's always been this way" in my mind
1:03:20 The moment: How are you feeling right now? A disconnect -- a splash, a disruption of the social groove ... and the next few minutes, navigating this
1:05:34 I need others to be listening to me well, so I can be clear in my thinking
1:09:31 Saturated in presence vs dispersed
1:14:29 Power being grounded, concentrated, or "up" and dispersed; tapering
1:18:47 Sarah expressing anger at me! (yes!)
1:20:36 Tapering demo; attachment dynamic: building bridges to others' inner worlds, not trusting they'll want to come to mine
1:23:26 The pain of separating, having melded into this conversation. A mini grief.
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1
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Emily [SO/SP 8w9 836] is a beautiful example of a heart-forward 8 who has done significant inner work and values her sensitivity. We get into what it means to be in a social "power position," why that's important for her, and what it means to value her vulnerability, among other things. Really good, high resolution introspection. Emily graduated from Yale undergrad and Oxford business school. She also rowed on the Irish national team. She currently works in a purpose-driven startup bringing smoother money transfer services to Africa and beyond.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/TkPCccFhjqU
www.theenneagramschool.com
www.joshlavine.com---
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:43 Setting up the convo
3:49 Enneagram origin story; mistyping as 7; skepticism about Enneagram
10:27 8 Basic Fear & Desire, feeling "uncomfortably seen"
11:51 Leaning on being sought after socially; & the self-protection of being in a "power up posiiton"
15:21 the fear of being at the mercy of someone else's control; coming back to self-trust
16:51 Being protective of others; feeling "compelled" into action; "Rallying of every atom in my being"
19:34 Developing discernment, “letting go" when activated, what makes that hard
21:59 Feeling supported when others give their "truly honest opinion"; doing this for others
25:59 Picnic story - calling out a misogynistic joke
30:14 margaritas and bicycle story - "My independence is untouchable by you"
36:03 The appeal of doing a startup; Being alive through "Exerting your creative life force into the world through the lens of business"
41:19 need to feel like i'm on the edge of win or lose
42:04 solo training for a marathon, ice baths, pushing body to limits
43:28 Tough leadership lessons in sports and business
48:21 "I'm a sensitive person," friendship and vulnerability; my vulnerability is valuable
53:15 Why did you say yes to this?
55:16 Plugs!
56:10 Outro
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#enneagram #enneagram8 #enneagramtypes #enneagrameight #enneagramtype8
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
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Czan [SO/SP 9w1 953] is a software engineer for a gaming company and currently lives in the US. He's an original Enneagram thinker, and "Attachment to Disconnect" is his profound insight into how Attachment types create situations to continue reaching for connection, rather than stably connecting. Czan has experience with various inner work modalities and has excellent insights about being an Enneagram 9. I'll add that I experienced his 5 fix vividly in this conversation, which you'll see in the way Czan maintains intellectual separateness.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:32 Enneagram Origin Story
5:14 Twice an immigrant; adapting to new cultures; 5 fix figuring it out by myself; trauma from this pattern -- no one here like me; "The resolution needs to come in community"; Immigrant as metaphor for attachment
11:34 What grabbed you about the Enneagram? Mistyping as 5; Wanting to talk about the Enneagram without talking about the Enneagram
14:51 NOT an Ennea-vangelist; refuting Josh's suggestion that finding universal language is an attachment dynamic
17:10 Attachment vs Social & desire for belonging? Czan's idea: "The Existential Object" for 4, 5, & 9
20:30 Czan's loud 5-fix, not absorbing others' orientation; couldn't be an academic bc need to converse with other scholars
23:56 So why are you a 9, not a 5?; Czan's theory, 9's seeking "existence" in the world, 5's not
28:10 Toggling on and off; "when I'm observing, nothing's going on inside"
30:18 Dissociating -- when things "start to get muffled"; "Existing" or not existing in relationship
36:03 Merging with others, taking on their discomfort; Best thing I could do for my parents as a kid was "be okay" and not need a lot
37:54 Taking on mom's (& others') emotional burden; I'm helping them carry their heavy luggage, not realizing I have a limit to my emotional capacity
39:14 Internal Family Systems (IFS) & Psychedelics
42:01 The metaconversation (!); paradox 9 relational merging & 5 intellectual independence; Czan's 5 fix "vs" Josh's 6 fix 49:24 Josh's object relations theory & the body center
55:44 Ayahuasca and Owl Medicine; not opening to overwhelm or closing myself off, but preening and holding myself as I move through the world
1:00:26 Reflections; 9's virtue of engagement; taking responsibility for washing myself, so I can stay open to be affected by things, to live
1:03:42 Not wasting anger, taking care of "the mud in me," and "using it to grow lotus flowers"; creativity, passion
1:10:16 Attachment to Disconnect
1:13:57 Fitness, getting into my body, trying to "live" the Enneagram and not just cerebralize it
---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/
---
#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1
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