Episodes
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Stay tuned for a new format and more impactful conversations in Women Without Kids: Season 2!
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Therapist and author Kelly McDaniel on the links between non-motherhood and what she calls "mother hunger." In the episode we discuss:
-Kelly’s definition of “mother hunger” and how she came up with the term.
-Why 50% of the population experience mother hunger and how it manifests in issues around food and love.
-What causes mother hunger - and why this is often the result of an epigenetic inheritance.
-Why structural issues make it harder for mothers and babies to bond - and the lifelong attachment issues that can result from this.
-How mother hunger impacts our procreative choices and how we may feel about becoming mothers ourselves.
-The links between mother hunger, anorexia, and being “a-reproductive” (i.e. having no desire to reproduce).
-The impact of a lack of paid parental leave on mother hunger.
-Why choosing not to have a child can be the most “loving” choice if we are aware that our capacity to mother is being compromised.
-Why our materialistic, consumer culture is just another substitute mother - and a way we seek to soothe our mother hunger.
Learn more about Kelly's work HERE and find her book, Mother Hunger, HERE.
Get your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE.
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Episodes manquant?
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Rethinking aging as women without kids, with TV host and menopause activist, Stacy London. In the episode we discuss:
-Stacy’s experience of being faced with her biological clock - and being confronted with the finality of menopause.
-Her friend group getting younger and younger, as all the women her age got married and had kids.
-What longer lifespans in general will do for our procreative potential.
-Why the “grandmother” figure is the only valid role for older women in our society - and how women without kids can embody grandma energy.
-Why agism is often cloaked sexism.
-The different factors - genetic and otherwise - that determine how we experience menopause.
-Why Gen X is changing the script about what it means to be an “older woman.”
-Why information is power when it comes to navigating menopause – and how to advocate for what you need.
-Why Stacy decided her product company, State of Menopause, was not the best way to help people in this transition, and why she is shifting her focus to education going forward.
Follow Stacy on Instagram to learn more about her work @stacylondonreal.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—and enter your order details to receive a free book club guide and be entered into a prize draw to win one of 10 limited edition "Sisterhood of the Selfish C*nts" tote bags.
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It's time to focus on less on what potential parents want and more on what the children of the future need, says human rights lawyer and founder of the Fair Start Movement, Carter Dillard. In the episode we discuss:
-The origins and the mission of the Fair Start Movement.
-Why all children deserve a “fair start” in life, from both an economic and an ecological perspective.
-The concept of “procreative ethics” and the policy and ideological changes that are needed to support this.
-Why having kids is not a personal matter - since deciding to create another human being cannot be framed as an autonomous act.
-The ethics of China’s lapsed one-child policy, and whether governments have a right to interfere in people’s reproductive lives.
-The thinking behind the three pillars of the Fair Start Movement: “parental readiness,” “birth equity,” and “smaller families.”
-The human rights issues with “pro-growth” economics - which is what tells us we need “more new people” entering the economy in order to support the aging population.
-Why Japan's plummeting birth rate is framed as a crisis – despite the country being ranked number 6 in the world when it comes to quality of life.
-Their differing approaches to family formation being an early indicator of the rift between Princes William and Harry (!)
-Words of comfort and encouragement for people who would like to have a child, and who are concerned about the future of our planet.
Learn more about Carter and his work with the Fair Start Movement HERE.
You can also pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—and enter your order number to receive a free reading group guide for the book.
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Childfree advocate Rachel Diamond on the complex reasons more women are opting for irreversible sterilization procedures. In the episode we discuss:
-What a “bilateral salpingectomy” involves - and why Rachel decided to go this route versus other sterilization procedures.
-Why her requests for sterilization were initially turned down, and all the reasons she she was given for this.
-Her experiences with other forms of long-term birth control and experiencing an ectopic pregnancy while fitted with a copper IUD.
-All the different factors that led to Rachel’s realization that she never wanted to have children of her own.
-Why her traditional “white-picket-fence” upbringing meant she never questioned whether she would become a mom - and the relief of realizing that not having children was an option for her.
-How watching her friends struggle with pregnancy and postpartum depression solidified her feelings on the subject.
-Women having the ability to assess their parental readiness - and plan accordingly - being a marker of human progress.
-The uptick in requests for sterilization procedures following the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
-The impact of more people pursuing more creative and meaningful - but less stable - career paths on our reproductive choices.
-Entering the dating pool sterilized - and being clear upfront with a potential life partner about your feelings on having kids.
You can follow Rachel on TikTok and Instagram for more on her childfree journey.
You can also pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids and enter your order details HERE to receive your free book club guide to accompany the book.
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It is time to revalue the unpaid labor of childrearing, says Jenny Brown—feminist organizer and author of Birth Strike: The Hidden Fight Over Women's Work. In the episode we discuss:
-Jenny’s background campaigning for birth control access led to her deciding to write her book, Birth Strike.
-Ominous insights into the forces that led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade roughly a year after we recorded this interview.
-Abortion being legalized during the post-war “baby boom” of 1955-1975—a time when politicians were concerned about overpopulation.
-Why the founder of the official “Birth Strike movement” changed their message in 2020 to better reflect their environmental stance (not having kids in protest to conditions NOT as a comment on overpopulation).
-The systemic issues behind the current spontaneous “birth strike” being staged by women without kids globally.
-The impact of witnessing our mothers’ struggle on the procreative outcomes of modern women without kids.
-The roots of the Covid childcare crisis, and why this had been a long time coming.
-The policy change and ideological shifts that would enable more people to confidently embark on the path of parenthood.
-Why higher wages across the caregiving spectrum, and higher status being given to these jobs, are essential for the thriving of future generations.
-Jenny’s obvious, clear-cut solutions to the issue of the aging population!
You can learn more about Jenny Brown and her work and order your copy of Birth Strike HERE and follow her on Twitter HERE.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—and enter your order number to receive a free book club guide and be entered into a prize draw to win a limited edition tote.
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It's time to teach kids about human sexuality beyond the procreative act, says sexuality educator, Justine Ang Fonte. In the episode we discuss:
-Why sexuality education tends to reduce our bodies to their reproductive function - and what is problematic about this
-Why human sexuality is equally about pleasure, intimacy, agency, and personal power, and how to talk to kids about these things
-Justine’s introduction to teaching sex ed and why she’s so passionate about enacting reform in this area
-Why all non-procreative sex - including queer sex, masturbation, and sex work - is still so stigmatized
-Why we can’t have a real conversation about consent without centering pleasure - since consent begins with asking, “does this feel good?”
-Why male sexual entitlement stems from the notion that women’s bodies belong first and foremost to society as the means of reproduction
-Why talking about a “gender-full” world is part of dismantling reductive gender roles in the realm of human sexuality
-The role of intimacy education and teaching about healthy relationships in the context of sex ed.
-Why Justine does not expect to see a truly sexually liberated society in her lifetime - and why this won’t stop her continuing to work towards this
You can learn more about Justine and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @imjustineaf
You can also pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—and enter your order details to receive a free reading group guide for the book
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Author, activist, and doula adrienne maree brown on mapping our procreative choices against the emerging needs of our species. In the episode we discuss:
-The concept of “emergence” as a way to think about creation and contribution beyond procreation
-Why we are both wary of describing our books as our “babies”
-What the drop off in the birth rate globally shows us about how society is evolving - particularly in terms of prescribed patriarchal gender roles
-The impact of increased acceptance of queerness on baby-having and baby-rearing
-What it means to engage in “science fictional behavior” when considering the future of our species and our planet
-What our responses to the pandemic showed us about what we believe is at the center of life and whose needs we prioritize as a result
-Why our collective addiction to accumulation extends to pro-natalist ideas about family formation
-Why the concept of bodily autonomy often does not extend to our procreative potential - and who decides who and what our bodies are “for”
-How being introverts has influenced both of our feelings about becoming parents
-Adrienne’s “big gay theory” for saving the world
Learn more about adrienne's work HERE, and check out her new book, Fables and Spells HERE, and find her podcast, How to Survive the End of the World HERE.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—and enter your order details to receive a free reading group guide to accompany the book.
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Author, podcaster, and childfree OG Meghan Daum on finding meaning and fulfillment when biological family is not the center of your life. In the episode we discuss:
Why we are so sentimental about family - and why it’s so hard to remove our rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to the subject of family life
-The historical risk to life of both “going to war” (for men) and “childbirth” (for women) - and how these experiences are romanticized
-The loneliness and the gifts of being an outlier, and making life choices that diverge from the “norm”
-The influence of Meghan’s upbringing - and her basic personality - on her choice not to become a mother
-What made her question this decision, and how she navigated her ambivalence
-Why choosing not to have kids is an acknowledgement of how hard it is to be a parent
-Meghan’s feelings about the miscarriage she experienced at age 41
-How lucky she feels to derive enough meaning from her work in “the world of ideas” not to feel the need to procreate
-Her experience of working in the foster care system, and her wider thoughts about fostering and adoption
-How rapid progress in terms of technology and globalization have widened the “generation gap” and
-Meghan’s thoughts on aging without kids, and why we need a more progressive conversation about how to manage the aging population
You can find links to all Meghan's books HERE, listen to her podcast HERE, subscribe to her Substack HERE, and learn more about The Unspeakeasy, a new community for free-thinking women, HERE.
Pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE - and enter your order number to receive a FREE reading group guide top accompany the book.
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Dr. Nicole LePera on creating a new legacy with our self-healing the potential impact of the "conscious parenting" revolution. In the episode we discuss:
-How dysfunctional patterns and behaviors are passed down the generations and imprinted in us in childhood
-Why not having children can be a way to stop the patterns repeating – as can conscious parenting
-How our mothers’ “self-healing” practices impacted both of us – and the potential for future generations of more people engaging with this work
-The roots of Nicole’s early knowing that she did not want to be a mom
-Why our experience of being mothered inevitably shapes how we feel about becoming mothers ourselves
-The decision not to have children due to fears about our mental health or passing on other genetic conditions
-The enormous emotional challenge of raising kids and how to assess our capacity for the vocation of parenthood
-Why grieving is part of any journey of healing from dysfunctional family dynamics
-Why feeling seen and heard is the essence of community – and why this begins with feeling safe to express who we are
-The healing path as a vocation in itself and a way to live a meaningful life without kids
Nicole's new book, How To Meet Yourself: The Workbook For Self-Discovery is out December 6, 2022. Get your copy HERE.
You can also pre-oder Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of An Unsung Sisterhood HERE. Enter your order details to receive a FREE book club guide to accompany the book.
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Evolutionary biologist Gillian Ragsdale on the myth of the "maternal instinct," and the extent to which the desire to birth a biological child is a social and cultural phenomenon. In the episode we discuss:
-Why no mammal has a primal instinct that links sex to a desire to reproduce
-Why we talk about a “maternal” instinct and not a “paternal” instinct
-The real purpose of the sex drive in human beings
-Why individual differences and preferences are overlooked in conversations about procreative potential
-The different factors that might make a person more susceptible to “baby fever”
-Why it is so challenging to implement more shared responsibility for childrearing between men and women
-An evolutionary perspective on the global population slowdown
-Why modern societal structures and family formation are antithetical to proper caregiving
-How “pair bonding” came to take precedence among humans and the impact of this on community and family life
-What it means to “widen the moral circle” when it comes to who we care for and about – both individually and as a society
-Why biological evolution doesn’t care about “quality of life” - but how lifestyle stressors do impact human fertility
You can learn more about Gillian Ragsdale and her work HERE.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE—where you can input your order details to receive a FREE book club guide to accompany the book.
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Psychologist Aurelie Athan on the emerging concept of "Reproductive Identity." In the episode we discuss:
-How Aurelie defines the concept of “reproductive identity” and how she came to this work
-The different life experiences that help to form our reproductive identity - and how this intersects with other identity markers
-The cultural and social developments that have shifted the narrative about who is “supposed to” have children, and why
-Why the transitions and developmental phases of mid-life have been so unexamined
-Evolving attitudes to the concept of “generatively” - what we are contributing to future generations
-The impact professionally and culturally of women delaying motherhood to prioritize education and personal development
-How not becoming a parent is its own developmental phase psychologically
-The specific factors can help inform our “reproductive orientation” - and why some people are naturally “a-reproductive” (as in a-sexual) with no desire to reproduce
-How to create more space for ambivalence and fluidity in terms of reproductive identity and / or orientation
-The importance of having our self-identity verified by the way we are received in the world
-The importance of creating new language to describe the full spectrum of emerging reproductive identities
-The wider and ongoing implications for the concept of reproductive identity being embraced in the mainstream
Read Aurelie Athan's full paper on Reproductive Identity HERE.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE.
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Dr. Jennifer Mullan of Decolonizing Therapy on non-motherhood as part of our intergenerational healing. In the episode we discuss:
-The intersections that are at play when we talk about intergenerational healing
-Different ways of thinking about what is “ending with us” when we don’t have kids
-The concept of the “soul wound” - and how this is passed on down the generations
-The trauma done to peoples - and lineages - across the globe by colonization, and the survivalist coping mechanisms that we have inherited from this
-Jennifer’s definition of “family dysfunction” - and how this is often a manifestation of these coping mechanisms
-Her experiences of family therapy, and how the focus is often on the child who is “acting out” - versus looking at the whole family system
-Why ambivalence about having children can reflect an intuitive pull not to pass intergenerational patters - or “curses” - on to a new generation
-“Parenting” in our activism or other community work - and prioritizing this over having kids
-What we are opting into when we “opt out” of having kids - whether this is a conscious choice or not
-How the pillaging of Mother Earth has impacted our capacity for mothering
-Jenn’s family’s response to her not pursuing motherhood - and her rage at their insensitivity around this
-The need for specific care and lifestyle options for older women without kids
Learn more and Dr. Jennifer Mullan and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram for updates about her forthcoming book, Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma & Politicizing Your Practice.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE.
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Sociologist Orna Donath, author of the book Regretting Motherhood, on the roots and the impact on women of society's greatest taboo. In the episode we discuss:
-Why the subject of “regretting motherhood” is so taboo – and why it is so hard for women to express their regret about having kids
-The “feeling rules” about motherhood, which only permit us to feel a certain way about it
-Why loving one’s children and loving being a mom are not the same thing
-Why there is no country or society where femininity is not synonymous with motherhood
-The importance of acknowledging the diversity among women and all female identifying individuals when it comes to our gifts, our limitations, and our desires for our lives
-Why maternal regret is often hidden by complaints about the material difficulties of the role
-The damage done to children when women are pushed into motherhood against their will
-Why being honest about how things really are – no matter how painful – creates a culture of trust and helps people feel more secure
-Why telling women they will regret not having kids is a “political use of emotion”
-Insights from Orna’s new study, which looks at the lives of older women without kids
-Why people – especially women - who chose to live alone are also subject to stigma concerning their life choices
Get your copy of Regretting Motherhood by Orna Donath HERE.
You can also pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE.
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Psychotherapist Jeanne Safer, author of the 1996 book Beyond Motherhood on why not all women are destined to become mothers—and that's okay. In the episode we discuss:
-Anticipating—and fearing—our parents’ responses to us writing on this subject
-The value in accepting the cold, hard facts, for healing family dysfunction
-Why being a “woman without kids” is still seen as so taboo – and the internal questions that can arise as a result
-The liberation that results from staying true to what is right for you
-How attitudes have changed in the 25+ years since Jeanne’s book was published
-Working through the shame of feeling insufficiently “loving” as a non-mother
-The traits that equip a person for the “psychological vocation” of motherhood
-Why there is no life without regrets – no matter what path we choose
-Using the climate as an “excuse” for not having kids
-How the IVF industry plays to women’s fears that they will regret not having kids
-Grieving not becoming a mother – no matter how you feel about not having kids
-Why “mothering” is not inherently “feminine” and why it’s okay not to feel a maternal instinct
You can learn more about Jeanne Safer, and her book Beyond Motherhood HERE. You can also read her follow-up essay in Meghan Daum's anthology, Selfish, Shallow and Self-Absorbed: 16 Writers on the Decision Not to Have kids.
You can pre-order your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE.
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Gateway Women founder Jody Day on the false divide that separates 'childless' women who can't have kids, from 'childfree' women who don't want to be mothers. In the episode we discuss:
-The roots of the false binary that divides the ones who “can’t have kids” and the ones who “don’t want kids”
-The role of pronatalism in this divide, which is the ideology that says that parents are more important than non-parents
-The concept of being “childless by circumstance” – versus being childless by choice or due to infertility
-How Jody came up with the word “NoMo” (from not-mother) to describe any and all women without kids
-The “disenfranchised grief” of childlessness – and grief, like love, being a process of identity transformation
-The role of empathy and consciousness raising in overcoming judgement, stigma, and shame
-How women without kids from across the spectrum of non-motherhood can come together and support each other
-The primal roots of our fear and loathing of women without kids, and how this plays out in society today
-Why the notion that we need more new people to support the aging population is an example of ageism – and why the solution lies in changes to current economic policies
-Why the “othering” of women without kids is linked to all other forms of prejudice under white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy
-Jody’s “Conscious Childless Elderwoman”project
Learn more about Gateway Women HERE and follow Jody on Instagram @gatewaywomen.
Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood is out March 2023. Pre-order your copy HERE.
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Women Without Kids is a special podcast series created from research interviews for my book of the same title, which will be published in spring 2023.
The conversations I'll be sharing here are with the authors, philosophers, healers, activists, anthropologists, and social scientists, whose work has helped me make sense of everything it means to be a "woman without kids" today—whatever our reasons for this.
First episode coming September 11 2022. You can also find places to pre-order my book, Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood, HERE.
