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In this last episode of the year, I reflect on what I’ve learned in 1.5 years of podcasting about ageism in the workplace. Spoiler alert: it’s a big deal for all of us, whether you’re fresh out of school or deep into your career, so let’s roll!
Did you know having a positive mindset about aging can add 7.5 years to your life? That’s more than quitting smoking or exercising! Mind-blowing, right? But thanks to the media and the beauty industry, stereotypes about aging make it harder for everyone to feel good about getting older.
Surveys from Resume Now and AARP show that up to 90% of workers face age discrimination. And it’s not just older folks—“reverse ageism” hits younger workers too. Meanwhile, multigenerational workplaces aren’t just nice to have; they’re productivity powerhouses, boosting team performance by 20%.
The financial hit? Brace yourself—ageism costs the U.S. economy $850 billion a year! On top of that, issues like menopause in the workplace are costing companies millions in lost productivity.
But there’s reason to hope! Listeners have shared some inspiring success stories about landing jobs through their networks. Plus, collective action is making waves—like holding companies accountable for ageist practices (looking at you, Indeed). Change is happening, folks, and I’m here for it.
So buckle up - this episode is going to change the way you think and get you geared up and revved up for what’s next!
Join the Event with AARP on December 9, 2024:
-Send an email to [email protected] to reserve your seat.
Sign up for One-on-One Coaching:
-Send an email to [email protected] or a message at https://www.itgetslateearly.com/collaborate.
Maureen LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
-Generations Report by Protiviti and Dr. Daniel Jolles - https://www.protiviti.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/lse-generations-survey-report.pdf
-EEOC Report On Diversity In The Tech Workforce - https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/high-tech-low-inclusion-diversity-high-tech-workforce-and-sector-2014-2022
-Women in Leadership Face Ageism at Every Age - https://hbr.org/2023/06/women-in-leadership-face-ageism-at-every-age
-McKinsey & Company’s Report On Women In The Workplace - https://www.flipsnack.com/78C9ACFF8D6/women-in-the-workplace-2024/full-view.html
-Resume Now Survey on Ageism -
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Ever feel like you're trying to navigate a corporate obstacle course while juggling flaming torches and keeping your cool? Like you're supposed to be "authentic" but also "professional," vulnerable but not too vulnerable? Well, today we're diving into the workplace circus with Hanan Harb Sahourieh, the brilliant mind behind Everybody Be Cool - a book that's basically your survival guide to the modern workplace.
Here's what's fascinating about Hanan: after getting laid off (yeah, we've all been there or feared being there), instead of diving into the usual "how to climb the corporate ladder" stuff, she wrote the book she wished she'd had - one for the regular folks trying to figure out how to show up as themselves. And this isn't your typical "lean in" narrative. This is real talk about what happens when five generations of workers try to coexist without driving each other crazy.
We get into some juicy territory, like what Hanan calls "spiritual business moments" (trust me, it's not what you think), and why being vulnerable at work isn't always the magic solution Brené Brown might have led us to believe. Speaking of which, wait until you hear Hanan's take on psychological safety - spoiler alert: your role might have more to do with it than your personality.
So, if you're tired of workplace advice that feels like it was written by AI (no offense to our robot friends), and you're ready for some real talk about power, authenticity, and staying human in the corporate jungle, this episode is for you. Don't worry, we'll throw in some cringe-worthy corporate culture stories too - because sometimes you just need to know you're not alone in this wild ride we call work life.
“We have power and control over how we show up, how we interact with our neighbors, our community, our family, and the people we work with. That's where we have the power to be who we want to be and be the change that we want to see.”
~ Hanan Harb Sahourieh
In This Episode:
-Why personal power matters in the workplace
-How to build a personal brand and its benefits
-The inspiration behind Hanan’s book Everybody Be Cool
-How to navigate generational differences in the workplace
-Why power skills are essential in today’s workplace
-Challenges of being vulnerable in the workplace
-How independent publishing empowers creators
-The value of a coaching culture in the workplace
-How to build resilience and adaptability in the rising gig economy
And much more!
Resource Mentioned in the Episode:
-Hanan’s book, Everybody Be Cool: https://a.co/d/h7SzNjE
Connect with Hanan Harb Sahourieh:
-Website: https://www.everybody-be-cool.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hananharb
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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Imagine hitting all your KPIs at work, only to be told you're out—because they want someone younger. Well, that’s exactly what happened to today’s guest, the incredible Emilia D’Anzica. And trust me, her comeback story is one for the books!
Emilia is the founder of Growth Molecules, an author, and an all-around powerhouse. She takes us through her nuts experience of being pushed out of a tech company despite knocking it out of the park for 13 quarters straight.
Emilia shares how she handled the blow (hint: with grace and a lot of courage), why fighting ageism in court is nearly impossible, and the advice she received from top lawyers. But this isn’t a downer episode! Emilia didn’t just take the hit – she flipped the script and used her MBA to launch her own successful consulting firm.
We also talk about the rampant ageism in tech, the gender and racial pay gap, and how recruiters are still weirdly biased about hiring older talent (hello, 57 is not “too old” to hire!) If you’re over 40 and feeling it in your job search or career, Emilia’s story will inspire you to keep pushing forward. She’s living proof that there’s life – and success – after even the most unfair corporate rejection.
So, don’t miss this conversation packed with insights and a story that will leave you both inspired and enraged.
“If you're a recruiter, you should have the courage to look past how that person looks. We shouldn't have to pay an 'age tax' to get a job.”
- Emilia D’Anzica
In This Episode:
-Emilia’s shocking story of being replaced by a younger colleague despite consistent success
-Why age discrimination is so hard to prove in court (and the advice Emilia got)
-How Emilia turned a tough experience into a thriving business
-Recruiter bias against older workers and why we need to fix it
-McKinsey research insights on gender pay gaps
-A peek into Emilia’s book Pressing On as a Tech Mom
And much more!
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
-Emilia D’Anzica’s book, Pressing On as a Tech Mom: https://www.amazon.com/Pressing-Tech-Mom-Industry-Boundaries/dp/1956955194
-Women in the Workplace 2024: The 10th-anniversary report: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/women-in-the-workplace
Connect with Emilia D’Anzica:
-Website: https://growthmolecules.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emiliadanzica
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emiliadanzica/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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Did you know that menopause affects over half the population and costs companies billions in lost productivity each year? And yet, it's still one of the most overlooked issues in the workplace. Well, today’s episode focuses on the impact of menopause on the workforce.
I share my experience with a tech company's absurd mishandling of women’s health, where a session titled "Navigating the Uniqueness of the Female Body" (and no, I'm not kidding!) was beyond offensive. I’ll share some shocking statistics on menopause and its symptoms, which can last up to - get this - 20 years!
Additionally, my guest, Tamsen Fadal, a former journalist turned menopause advocate, recounts a personal story about collapsing in the newsroom due to her symptoms, which led her to focus on raising awareness about menopause. Tamsen is about to launch a documentary called The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and continually advocates for better workplace education and support for women experiencing menopause.
Tamsen stresses the need for companies to address menopause and highlights organizations that are making progress in this area. She emphasizes that better education and treatment can improve both employee well-being and workplace productivity.
Whether you're experiencing menopause, know someone who is, or just want to create a more supportive work environment, this conversation is for you. Tune in to learn how you can be part of the change.
“As long as we know what to expect, and you’re not surprised or sideswiped by something, it just makes it a little bit easier—even if the symptoms are not.”
-Tamsen Fadal
In This Episode:
-The definition of perimenopause, menopause, and its symptoms
-The impact of menopause symptoms on women and workplaces
-Menopause-related productivity losses and healthcare costs
-How companies benefit from addressing menopause
-Education and support for women experiencing menopause
-Why raising menopause awareness is crucial
-How women should handle aging in the workplace
And much more!
Resource Used in the Episode:
-Economic Impact of Menopause: Individual and Collective Costs: https://www.aarp.org/pri/topics/work-finances-retirement/employers-workforce/menopause-workplace/
Connect with Tamsen Fadal:
-Website: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamsenfadal/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website:
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The world population is aging, and with 10,000 people turning 65 daily, new opportunities are emerging in the tech industry. So, today, we're exploring the AgeTech revolution with Cathy Minter, the CEO and co-founder of Wisdom.io.
AgeTech? Yeah, it's a thing, and it's been quietly changing the game since 2016. But we're not talking about teaching your grandparents to code (although they definitely could…because we never stop learning new things, remember?). We're talking about everything from "I need to plan my will" apps to smart homes that won't let you forget your meds.
Now, Cathy's not just some tech guru who decided to cash in on the “silver tsunami,” aka demographic change. Nope, she's got skin in the game. Her journey into AgeTech is like a roller coaster ride through personal loss, family drama, and a "wait, why isn't there an app for that?" moment during the pandemic. You'll want to hear how being the baby of the family turned her towards tech founderdom.
Cathy's not just about keeping old folks "aging in place" (a term that has got to go, btw). She's all about living well independently as long as possible. And boy, does she have stories to tell about navigating the gender bias and ageism in the tech world. From trying to look older in her 30s (because apparently, corporate tech leadership and youth don't mix) to dealing with the subtle "oh, honey" vibes in her 50s, Cathy's seen it all.
So, if you're curious about how AgeTech is gearing up to make our golden years truly golden, or if you just want to hear some juicy tales from Silicon Valley, this episode's got you covered.
“I asked one of the older adults in our focus group about aging in place, and she said it’s just about living life to the fullest for the time that you have.”
- Cathy Minter
In This Episode:
- Introduction to AgeTech and its ability to improve lives
-Cathy’s journey to founding Wisdom.io
-The sandwich generation and the future of age tech
-Navigating career growth and gender bias in the workplace
-Barriers to AgeTech adoption for older adults
-Redefining “aging in place”
-Ageism in the tech industry
-Innovation gaps in the tech sector for older adults
-The value of mentorship and intergenerational collaboration
And much more!
Connect with Cathy Minter:
-Website: https://www.mywisdom.io/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyminter
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -
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In this solo episode, I break down the recent controversy surrounding a career guide published by Indeed, the world’s largest job site, with 365 million daily users and over 3.5 million employers. Here’s a teaser: The guide labeled ages 45-55 as “late career” and 55-65 as “decline,” sparking an outcry over its ageist language.
I stumbled across the uproar late one night on LinkedIn and decided to post my thoughts, which quickly went viral. Indeed responded within hours, issuing an apology and removing the offensive content, but the damage was already done!
The guide perpetuated harmful stereotypes, like the idea that workers in their 40s and 50s should aim for less demanding roles and stop learning new skills. This couldn’t be further from the truth—many of us are thriving in our careers at this stage, with plenty of energy and ambition.
While I appreciate how quickly Indeed responded, I still question how the management allowed the guide to be published in the first place. It raises concerns about whether they truly support an age-inclusive work environment. But this situation has opened up an important conversation about ageism, and I’m hopeful it will lead to lasting change.
Can several viral posts on LinkedIn really change how a major corporation thinks about age? Join me as we explore how this Indeed debacle can serve as a catalyst for real change in tackling ageism in the workplace. Don't worry—we'll get some solid career advice and probably a few laughs too.
In This Episode:
-Introduction and overview of Indeed’s corporate values
-Personal experience with the career guide controversy
-Career stages in Indeed’s career guide
-Critique of the career guide's advice
-Raising a successor for your position
-Retirement in your forties: myth or reality?
-The "decline" era: what to expect
-The reality of ageism in the workplace
-Indeed's apology and future steps
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
-Indeed’s live webinar on November 7, 2024, titled “Success and Satisfaction in the Later Stages of Your Career”: https://www.linkedin.com/events/7237487552620843009/
-Indeed’s article, “Ageism in the Workplace: Its Impact and How to Prevent It”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/ageism-in-the-workplace
-Indeed’s article, “ADEA: An Employer's Guide to the Age Discrimination in Employment Act”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/adea#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20the%20ADEA,ability%20when%20making%20those%20decisions.
-Maureen’s LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/maureenwclough_are-you-over-55-indeed-as-in-the-one-that-activity-7235228512918388738-wIYC?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube:
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Today I've got Jamie Jackson, the brilliant mind behind 'Humorous Resources', 'Millennial Misery,' and 'Horrendous HR,' and the co-host of the HR Besties podcast. She's not just your average HR pro - she's like the standup comedian of the corporate world, using humor to keep us all from losing our minds in the 9-to-5 grind.
Jamie's hilarious social media accounts were born out of the pandemic chaos while working at a healthcare clinic. Talk about a pressure cooker situation! But instead of cracking, she turned to humor. It's like she found the secret sauce to surviving corporate America, and now she's sharing it with all of us poor souls who've felt the sting of a pink slip delivered with all the warmth of a robocall.
So, let’s talk about it! You know that feeling when you're called into a surprise meeting, and your stomach drops to your shoes? Well, Jamie has been on both sides of the table, even standing up to a company owner over a harassment claim. Spoiler alert: it cost her the job. But hey, who needs job security when you've got integrity, right?
Additionally, Jamie's got some juicy stories about being an "elder millennial" (is that even a thing?) and the double standards between older men and women. We also get into the wild world of content creation and how it's not all sunshine and rainbows for the ladies out there. Turns out, the glass ceiling isn't just in the office - it's all over social media too!
Join us for some solid anecdotes about aging, advocating for what's right, and staying true to yourself in a corporate world that sometimes feels like it's gone mad.
"Layoffs, a lot of times, it’s really just a giant math equation. They may not even be looking at names; they’re looking at salaries. It’s not personal. You were just a part of the equation.”
- Jamie Jackson
In This Episode:
-The inspiration behind Jamie’s humorous HR accounts
-Misconceptions about the HR role
-Why humanity and empathy are critical in corporate leadership
-The challenges HR faces when handling layoffs,
-The cost of standing up for employee’s rights in HR
-How organizations can navigate layoffs with empathy
-The rise of layoffs in tech and the loss of humanity
-Ageism in the workplace and its impact on career advancement
-Gender disparities in corporate settings
-Age perceptions and prejudices on social media
And much more!
Connect with Jamie Jackson:
-Humorous Resources: https://www.instagram.com/humorous_resources/?hl=en
-Millennial Misery: https://www.instagram.com/millennial_misery/
-HR Besties Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hr-besties/id1712137225
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website:
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In the last year alone, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) received nearly 81,000 charges of workplace discrimination. And here's a kicker – age discrimination made up a whopping 17.5% of those cases! This is not merely a fringe issue in our society.
In today’s episode, I sit down with Keith Sonderling, the EEOC commissioner, to explore the realities of workplace discrimination and the EEOC's role in safeguarding civil rights across the United States. Keith shares the EEOC's mission, which goes beyond enforcing anti-discrimination laws to educational initiatives that prevent discrimination and help employers and employees understand their rights and obligations.
We're covering everything from the EEOC's birth during the Civil Rights Movement (talk about a dramatic origin story!) to the modern-day villains of age discrimination and AI bias in hiring. And trust me, some of these true stories from the workplace are pretty wild - and have resulted in some stiff penalties for the companies who got caught.
So whether you're the one signing the paychecks, the HR guru trying to keep everyone in line, or just someone who wants to know their rights, this episode is for you. Join us for a conversation that's equal parts enlightening and entertaining – because who said learning about our civil rights in the workplace can't be fun?
"If AI discriminates versus a human, the scale-ability of the discrimination is far greater than any one individual human can do. With just a few clicks, AI can eliminate millions of applications that the algorithm might identify as belonging to a protected class, amplifying bias on an unprecedented scale.”
- Keith Sonderling
In This Episode:
-The EEOC's role in preventing and remedying workplace discrimination
-Common misconceptions about the EEOC’s mission and operations
-Scope and statistics of legal cases on discrimination
-The rise of age discrimination cases: what qualifies as ageism
-The impact of AI on hiring practices and potential risks for discrimination
-Best practices for preventing age discrimination
-Practical advice for employees facing discrimination and the steps they can take
And much more!
Connect with Keith Sonderling:
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-sonderling
-Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/ksonderlingeeoc
-Website: https://www.eeoc.gov/keith-e-sonderling-commissioner
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
-LinkedIn:
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My guests today are Elizabeth Aniskevich from the AARP Foundation and lawyer Peter Romer-Friedman, two powerhouses in the fight against age discrimination. They're here to shed light on this pervasive issue that's been hiding in plain sight (or, should we say, in plain algorithms?).
Remember when job listings could brazenly ask for "recent college grads" or specify a maximum age? Well, those days might be gone, but the discrimination just got sneakier! Elizabeth shares some stats from AARP's research: a whopping 64% of older adults have seen or felt the sting of age bias, with 40% experiencing it after hitting the big 4-0.
Additionally, Peter shares his experiences battling Silicon Valley giants and their questionable hiring practices. We dive into the world of AI and algorithms, exploring how these supposedly neutral tools might be perpetuating age bias without anyone even realizing it.
We're covering everything from sneaky job ad targeting on platforms like Meta to the subtle ways ageism creeps into workplace culture. And the best part? We're not just complaining – we're talking solutions.
So, whether you're a seasoned tech pro, a coding newbie, or just someone who believes in workplace fairness, this episode is for you. Join us for an eye-opening conversation about age, tech, and justice.
"When you're talking about recruiting people, it's very different than recruiting customers for soap or paper towels or a car. When you're recruiting for a job or a mortgage or insurance, there are laws that say you can't exclude people based on who they are, including their age.”
- Peter Romer-Friedman
In This Episode:
-AARP research findings on the prevalence of ageism and its impact
-Elizabeth's journey into civil rights litigation
-Peter’s public interest litigation work and experience
-Age discrimination in Silicon Valley
-Intersectionality and cultural factors that compound ageism
-How AI and algorithms perpetuate discriminatory job postings
-The burden of proof in age discrimination cases
-Workplace diversity and the value of older workers
-Positive signs and cultural shifts in ageism
And much more!
Connect with Peter Romer-Friedman:
-Website: https://prf-law.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-romer-friedman-7031576/
Connect with Elizabeth Aniskevich:
-Website: https://www.aarp.org/aarp-foundation/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-aniskevich-b3690617
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website:
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Are you feeling stuck in your career and afraid to make a bold move? John Tarnoff, the career reinvention coach and founder of the Mid-Career Lab, will shake up everything you believe about mid-career shifts, especially if you're rocking that over-40 life!
Get ready to flip the script on job loss and retirement. John shows us that getting fired is not shameful or fatal, as we’ve been made to believe.
John's not just talking the talk – he's walked the walk! He's gone from getting the boot 39% of the time in the rollercoaster world of entertainment to becoming the go-to guru for career reinvention. Talk about a plot twist, right?
And if you think the 60-year career sounds like a snooze fest, you are right! John's challenging that notion. You’ll learn to differentiate yourself in a crowded job market at any age. Spoiler alert: It's all about unleashing your inner superhero (aka your 'superpower'), leveraging relationships, and becoming a thought leader in your zone of genius!
Oh, and did I mention you might want to have your LinkedIn profile open while listening? Trust me, after hearing John's take, that green "Open-To-Work" circle might be the next thing to go!
So, if you are itching for a career change in the ageist tech world or elsewhere, you’ll love this one! We’ve got you covered with all the actionable insights to sustain career growth in a competitive job market, so tune in!
"Find your superpower... That combination of results that you deliver, philosophies of life that you bring to the table, your personality, all of those unique factors. Define that value."
- John Tarnoff
In This Episode:
-Reframing job loss as an opportunity for growth
-How to identify and leverage your superpower
-Applying the 80/20 rule in building your community
-Utilizing platforms like LinkedIn to showcase your value
-The value of a multigenerational workforce
-Combating ageism in the tech industry
-How to position yourself as a consultant instead of unemployed
-Approaching job interviews as networking opportunities and consultative engagements
-Cultivating a mindset of continuous value delivery and consultation
-How introverts can overcome networking challenges
-Adopting a design-thinking approach to career development
And much more!
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
-Answer John’s four ‘Ikigai’ questions: https://johntarnoff.com/
-Bill Burnett and Dave Evans’ book, “Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life:” https://a.co/d/95mGWsm
Connect with John Tarnoff:
-Website: https://midcareerlab.com/
-LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/johntarnoff
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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We're bringing back some comic relief of the highest order by republishing one of the all-time most downloaded episodes of It Gets Late Early, featuring genius comedian Ross Pomerantz, aka Corporate Bro (or just Corp).
If you’re newer here, you probably haven’t heard Ross’s take on getting older in general or in the ageist tech industry…and trust me, you’re gonna wanna fix that. Like, now.
If you don’t know Ross, his persona of Corporate Bro is pretty much legendary in the tech world. After spending a few years in the tech sales trenches, he has been putting out comedic videos satirizing the world of sales and tech and has amassed a massive social media following. He currently partners with brands as huge as Salesforce and DocuSign, delivers keynotes, and advises tech companies.
Since we recorded this episode, Ross has also become a podcaster. He puts out the absolutely hilarious show “Demoted” alongside co-host comedian Corporate Natalie. Definitely check it out - it’s one of my favorites.
If you aren’t into profanity (or are listening around kids), don’t enjoy sarcasm or dark humor, or are easily offended, fair warning: this episode is NOT for you, and we’ll catch you next time.
So, thanks for letting me hit the easy button for a little summer break while also delivering to you an absolute gem of an episode - either for the first time or for another round.
"I do think leadership and experience are often underappreciated. It can be a huge difference-maker in tech in motivating people and giving them perspective and wise words, whatever it may be, but also even catharsis and therapy to the younger folks."
- Ross Pomerantz
In This Episode:
-Why Ross thinks tech companies are youth-dominated
-Where will Corporate Bro be in ten years? Hint: maybe drop the “Bro”
-How Ross’s humor plays differently with Gen Z vs. older people
-Ross’s feelings about facing ageism - and his first “ism”
-How Ross works well with both younger and older people alike
-Ross’s experience in producing "Sales are Dope" (S.A.D.)
-Ross’s true feelings on influencers and TikTok
-What Taylor Swift and Ross have in common
-How Ross feels about getting older
-Where Ross thinks older employees bring value
-The grind of content creation
And much more!
Resources:
-Sales are Dope (S.A.D.) Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3NoHBNSs00Y7I82f6h_6KyWM3b9pjmmQ
-Gavin DeGraw clip mentioned: https://www.tiktok.com/@corporate.bro/video/7196785042696457518
Connect with Ross Pomerantz:
-Website: https://corporatebro.com/
-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/demoted/id1725899994
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corporatebro/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/corporate.bro/
-TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@corporate.bro
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The fantastic Jen Saarbach and Kristen Kelly from “The Wall Street Skinny” podcast join me today for a candid and super fun crossover episode on the challenges women face breaking into and growing their careers in the male-dominated industries of Tech and Finance.
Jen and Kristen tell us how they started “The Wall Street Skinny” to democratize access to the world of high finance via their incredible podcast and lighthearted but value-packed social media posts. Turns out there’s more to the industry than we see in the movie The Wolf of Wall Street with Leo DiCaprio and Margot Robbie! Who knew?!
We all shared some of our career horror stories, including Jen’s (which she turned into a hilarious viral video) about how being a few minutes late to an interview can completely derail your shot at a big job. They also share that Wall Street is actually accessible to…English majors?!
But it's not just the hurdles of getting your foot in the door. Once you're in, we all face ageism (either levied against the young or the old, depending on the industry - we’ll reveal what we mean here!) and sexism through microaggressions, lack of mentorship opportunities, and assumptions. We dive into these realities and highlight the importance of age diversity in both industries.
We also discuss AI’s double-edged sword—its potential to both automate away jobs and also revolutionize fields like gene editing.
So whether you're well-established in your career or just getting started, our chat has you covered. Did I mention we had a lot of fun? Join us for our wide-ranging but impactful conversation.
"We have structured society so differently than it was historically so that you aren't hitting the same milestones. You aren't necessarily graduating from college at 22, going to business school at 25, getting married at 30, having kids by 35, retiring at 65. Those milestones have all shifted and are no longer fixed points."
- Jen Saarbach
In This Episode:
-Challenges and opportunities for women in finance
-Ageism in the tech industry
-Women representation and role models in finance and tech
-The challenges of starting a career in the finance industry
-The apprenticeship model in finance and its impact on career paths
-Challenges of entering finance later in life
-The importance of age diversity in finance and tech
-The role of venture capitalists in guiding founders
-The impact of AI on career paths
And much more!
Learn Finance From The Wall Street Skinny:
-Website: https://www.thewallstreetskinny.com/
-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-wall-street-skinny/id1680425507
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewallstreetskinny/
-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thewallstreetskinny
Connect with Jen Saarbach:
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifersaarbach/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-saarbach-realtor
Connect with Kristen...
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Ever wonder what it takes to build and sell a tech company for millions without venture capital? Well, we've got the inside story straight from the source!
Today I'm chatting with Sharon Gillenwater, a trailblazing entrepreneur who did just that - she built and sold her tech company (Boardroom Insiders) for a cool $25 million, all without relying on VC funding! She is the author of Scaling with Soul, which chronicles how she built, scaled, and sold her company.
Sharon's not your typical tech founder - in fact, she didn't even have a technical background when she started her company. But she proved that you don't need to be a coder to succeed in the startup world.
Sharon shares her unconventional entrepreneurial journey, the challenges she faced as a woman in tech, and the surprising advantage of being an "older" entrepreneur.
We'll also get the scoop on Sharon's viral TikTok fame, the truth about VC funding (hint: you don't always need it!), and her mission to democratize entrepreneurship and create more respectful workplaces.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or just curious about the wild world of tech startups, you don't want to miss this episode. Sharon's story is proof that you can absolutely make it big in this industry, even if you don't fit the mold, so tune in!
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"You don't have to be a Mark Zuckerberg to be an entrepreneur. Or a Sarah Blakely. You can be a Sharon Gillenwater and make all your retirement money and have a great retirement. And you don't have to take venture capital."
- Sharon Gillenwater
In This Episode:
-How Sharon built and sold a $25m tech company without venture capital
-How to overcome self-doubt and insecurity as an entrepreneur
-Women’s experience in entrepreneurship in the 80s
-The downside of venture capital funding for founders
-How to identify business opportunities
-Employee care strategies and the importance of a positive work culture
-Employment challenges in the tech industry
-Sharon's TikTok fame and content creation journey
-Navigating business exits after venture capital funding
And much more!
Resources:
-Scaling With Soul: How I Built & Sold a $25 Million Tech Company Without Being an A**hole - https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Soul-Million-Company-Without/dp/1964377013
Connect with Sharon Gillenwater:
-Website: https://www.sharonkgillenwater.com/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sharonkgillenwater/
-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sharonkgillenwater
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonkgillenwater/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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In a recent study by Fortune, one in five Gen Z’s reported not having spoken to anyone over 50 in the workplace in the last year, while 40% of people over 55 said they hadn't talked to a Gen Z. How did we get here?
How do we bridge this generational divide? Are the five generations at work a challenge to overcome, or are they an overlooked source of strength?
Today I host the brilliant Professor Megan Gerhardt, founder and author of Gentelligence. Megan challenges the lazy stereotypes that pit generations against each other. She advocates for understanding our differences as an opportunity for mutual growth and innovation.
One concept that really resonated was Megan's vision for "mutual mentoring" – an approach that replaces traditional top-down mentorship with a reciprocal exchange of knowledge and perspectives.
So, whether you're a tech titan grappling with a multi-generational workforce or simply seeking to bridge the gap with colleagues from different age groups, this conversation is for you.
Tune in to learn how you can foster smarter intergenerational conversations to transform your workplace into an environment where every generation feels valued and empowered.
“I believe generations matter, but they certainly are not everything. They are the beginning of the conversation to me, not the end of the conversation.”
- Megan Gerhardt
In This Episode:
-An introduction to the Gentelligence concept
-The importance of age in the DE&I conversations
-Intergenerational warfare and generational labels
-Practical tools for smarter intergenerational conversations
-How to leverage generational norms
-The impact of remote work on workplace engagement and identity
-How to build intergenerational friendships
-Why mutual mentorship is beneficial
And much more.
Resources:
-Purchase Professor Megan's book “Gentelligence”: https://a.co/d/ckOhax9
-Join Gentelligence Academy: https://gentelligenceacademy.com/
Connect with Professor Megan Gerhardt:
-Website: https://profgerhardt.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megangerhardt
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -
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In our hustle-obsessed society, the concept of "work-life balance" has become a twisted, unattainable ideal. From the dawn of our careers, we're fed narratives that glorify overachievement and self-sacrifice for the corporate grind.
But what if we've been sold a lie? What if the real keys to fulfillment lie in dismantling those deeply ingrained notions?
My guest today is Danielle Roberts, the bold anti-career coach. Danielle was well on her way to "having it all" - the prestigious job, the six-figure salary, the big promotion. But at what cost? She found herself drained, unfulfilled, and questioning the very purpose of her relentless grind.
From debunking the "lazy millennial" myths to questioning if a four-day workweek goes far enough, we explore the systemic issues warping our relationship to work. Danielle shares candid insights on why the perpetual grind robs us of joy and how to start uncoupling your identity from your job title.
Whether you're questioning your own work-life balance, feeling the creep of burnout, or simply craving more purpose beyond the 9-to-5 grind, this conversation is a must-listen. Tune in as we dive into practical strategies for finding joy and fulfillment outside of your career.
“We talk about work-life balance as if work is something to be balanced against life, but we need it (work) to be coherent with life.”
- Danielle Roberts
In This Episode:
-Danielle’s journey from corporate to anti-career coaching
-Why people are disenchanted with corporate employment
-The tech industry's broken promises, layoffs, and lies
-Navigating career uncertainty and embracing self-worth
-Redefining success and getting comfortable with "failure"
-A holistic approach to career coaching
-Generational differences in the workplace
-Quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs, and a four-day workweek
And much more.
Resources:
-Buy “Already Enough: A Path to Self-Acceptance” by Lisa Olivera: https://amzn.eu/d/bJIt4PG
Connect with Danielle Roberts:
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imdanielleroberts/
-Website: https://danielleroberts.co/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/
-Facebook:
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In our fast-paced, career-driven world, it's all too easy for friendships to take a backseat. But for many men, that dwindling social circle isn't just an occasional inconvenience - it's a harsh reality made worse by societal pressures and masculine stereotypes.
My guest today is Max Dickins, speaker, comedian, and author of Billy No-Mates: How I Realised Men Have a Friendship Problem.
What’s his story? As Max was preparing to propose to his girlfriend, he had a startling realization - his circle of close male friends had dwindled to nearly nothing. He had no best man! Basically it was the real life version of the Paul Rudd and Jason Segal movie “I Love You, Man!” This experience sparked an exploration into the challenges men face in maintaining platonic bonds, especially as they get older.
From the isolating impacts of demanding work lives to the discomfort many men feel around vulnerability and emotional intimacy, we dive deep into the root causes of male loneliness and its impact on men’s health.
But it's not all doom and gloom! Max offers practical strategies for breaking the cycle, such as being proactive in your social life, understanding your career's impact on relationships, and the concept of "repotting" friendships to build deeper connections.
Whether you're a guy struggling to keep your mates close or a partner wondering how to support the male relationships in your life, this episode is a must-listen, so tune in now!
"If we ran our social life with the same diligence, creativity, and structure that we ran our business life, everyone would have amazing social lives."
- Max Dickins
In This Episode:
-The story behind Max’s book “Billy No-Mates.”
-Why do men struggle to make and maintain friendships as they age?
-The impact of work on male friendships
-Why do men have more female friends than male friends?
-Tips on how to make new friends easily as a man
-How to build strong male friendships at work
-How women can support their partners in building their social circles
And much more.
Purchase Max Dickins’ Book:
-Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-to-kevin/max-dickins/9781838853518
-Amazon: https://a.co/d/01zG7Dr
Connect with Max Dickins:
-LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/max-dickins-improv
-Website: https://www.maxdickins.com/
-Instagram: http://instagram.com/maxdickinswrites
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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Ever wondered what it's like to work at Amazon? I mean, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, just like New York, right? It feels like after you’ve done time at Amazon, your meal ticket is punched, and you’ll have a cascade of job offers and great opportunities thereafter. But would you give your soul in exchange for a career at Amazon?
In this episode, I have Kristi Coulter, a brilliant author who wrote the book Exit Interview. She's also a writing professor and an editorial coach, so she helps people get their books into the world.
Exit Interview is about Kristi's experience of 12 years at Amazon corporate. It is an incisive, hilarious book, and as a woman reading it, I felt it was so needed in the literary world. We needed someone to voice what was happening on the inside in corporate employment.
We get into the sexism and double standards she faced, her tumultuous attempts to advance up the Amazon career ladder, her relationship with ambition, her sobriety journey, and how she has both learned - and proven - that it is never too late to change in life. She also recounts how Amazon - and specifically, Jeff Bezos - responded to the famous New York Times expose of Amazon by Jodi Kantor (who also broke the Harvey Weinstein abuse scandal). You definitely don’t want to miss that story.
And by the way, the brutal culture Kristi experienced at work is not unique to Amazon, but is something people from many in tech can relate to, so I found it cathartic to read.
So, if you’re wondering, "Oh, Amazon, what's it like there?" join us as we peel back the mystique and aura of Amazon. Don’t worry, we’ll get some solid and entertaining Jeff Bezos anecdotes up in there.
"I know there's this myth that people who make that kind of money aren't really working. But I could tell you, at Amazon, those people were working insanely hard. Like so hard that I would think, ‘you know, you're worth tens of millions of dollars, why are you answering emails on Sunday night? … Why don't you go on more vacations?’"
- Kristi Coulter
In This Episode:
-Why Kristi wrote her book
-Climbing the corporate ladder at Amazon
-What was it like getting a job at Amazon as a 36-year-old woman?
-How do you react to a weird situation in the workplace?
-Living and working in a place where "drinking" is part of the culture
-Kristi's leadership example at a luxury retreat
-One more humorous interlude
-The New York Times article and the response from Jeff Bezos
-Does Jeff Bezos actually care about diversity and equity?
And much more.
Resources:
-Exit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career by Kristi Coulter - https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Interview-Death-Ambitious-Career/dp/0374600902
-Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html
-Jeff Bezos Responds To 'New York Times' Report On Amazon's Workplace -
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Becoming a manager through a promotion or receiving a job offer is a rewarding accomplishment for an employee. While these opportunities can prove exciting for both first-time and long-time managers, not everyone is innately gifted with the skills it takes to be a good manager. Ask just about anyone, and they’ll tell you about that bad boss (or 7) they’ve had across their corporate careers.
In today's episode, the relatable and sharp Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties and I explore what it means to be a manager and how new managers can adapt to their leadership positions. We discuss common workplace challenges managers face and tips on navigating those challenges.
We also touch on this interesting concept called ikigai, which is the convergence of four areas of life: what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for.
Ashley worked as a lawyer in BigLaw (Ogletree Deakins) and leading companies (including McKinsey and Yum! Brands). She also served as General Counsel and Head of HR for the nation’s largest luxury media company (Modern Luxury).
Ashley is a LinkedIn Learning instructor on people management and co-hosts the HR Besties podcast (a Top 10 Business Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify - and one of my personal favorites). She has been featured by CNN, Financial Times, HR Brew, and BuzzFeed. Ashley is an expert in providing a crucial skill set that will benefit your organization and redefine people leadership.
"I remember my husband's great-aunt, Norma, saying to me, "It's so good to have friendships of different generations." At that time, I didn't appreciate it. I didn't appreciate it until I was older, and I now have those different ones on different sides."
- Ashley Herd
In This Episode:
-Why Ashley created the Manager Method
-Who is this "Luke" that appears in Ashley's videos?
-How to communicate layoffs with humanity
-The legal consequences of passing on layoff decisions to managers
-Is aiming for promotion the only path to staying employed?
-How to manage intergenerational workforce politics
-Encouraging workplace diversity and mentoring across generations
-How the HR Besties podcast came about
And much more.
Resources:
-Radical Candor by Kim Scott - https://kimmalonescott.com/radical-candor
Connect with Ashley Herd:
-Website: https://www.managermethod.com/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/managermethod/
-HR Besties Podcast: https://www.hrbesties.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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When applying for a job, the hiring process can feel like a waiting game. But what's even worse than waiting for who knows how long or being ghosted altogether is blatantly experiencing age bias while in an interview with a recruitment officer. That's what today’s guest, Vern Six, experienced, which he shared in a LinkedIn post that resonated with many people. In fact, the post went beyond viral, getting millions of views and garnering national media attention.
What happened? Vern had a recruiter inform him that he's supposedly too old for a software developer role. He couldn’t believe that "a young whippersnapper" in his twenties had the nerve to condense his 37 years of experience into such a dismissive statement.
Vern is an experienced Full-Stack Software Engineer and Project Manager with a demonstrated track record of leading technology projects to successful completion in diverse sectors. But he's over 50, and it turns out, that's a big issue for many recruiters.
Vern is here today to share the story behind his viral post, and the whirlwind that has happened since then. I'm sure many of you can relate to his encounter with a much younger interviewer and how their conversation ended.
Join us as we discuss the issue of ageism in tech and what we can do to spread awareness about the value that older workers bring to the workplace.
"People just think that once you're kind of pigeonholed in a particular stack, that's the way you are, and you're not going to move away from it. It's just not true."
- Vern Six
In This Episode:
-The background behind the viral post and what's happened since then
-Vern's experience being an "old guy" in tech
-A deluge of love and hate for Vern's post
-Why is ageism prevalent in the tech industry?
-The value of older workers and their vast experience
-A difference in perception of age bias between technical roles and sales roles
-Vern shares his career path and current business venture
-When did Vern start feeling the fear of ageism?
-The extent to which Vern discusses ageism beyond his viral post
And much more.
Resources:
-Vern's Viral Post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7167946832742928385/
-LinkedIn Group – Inclusive Futures: Combating Ageism & Discrimination https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14418151/
Connect with Vern Six:
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vernsix/
-Website: https://purposebrewcoffee.com/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -
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As more people live longer, consumer brands need to consider the needs of the older population. Companies that neglect senior consumers, especially the Baby Boomers, can end up missing a massive opportunity to attract and retain a growing market and make a ton of money along the way.
Older generations, those 50 and older, make up 51% of consumer spending. Despite the prevalence of youth in advertisements, older people spend way, way more money than younger generations (because they have more disposable income). Like young people, older folks also want to learn about brands to stay informed on new and significant trends. So, smart brands will soon wake up to the fact it is time to tap into the growing senior market and leverage the power of older consumers. The longevity economy, the largest and fastest-growing market in the world, is an opportunity marketers can't afford to ignore.
My guest today is Brian Clark, a digital marketing and tech entrepreneur, proud Gen X’er, and author of Longevity Gains, a Substack newsletter about the longevity economy. Join us as we discuss the massive demographic shift that's about to happen, why people should actually be excited about getting older, and the need for intergenerational harmony. We have a lot of fun along the way, too.
"You hit 50, and I'm telling you, I'm living proof you get happier. And the happiest decade of life is your 70s."
- Brian Clark
In This Episode:
-What is the longevity economy?
-Why are we now becoming more aware of ageism?
-Are marketers deliberately ignoring older consumers? Why or why not?
-Which companies are attracting and retaining older consumers?
-The need for intergenerational harmony
-Why many people are not excited about growing older
-Where can companies get insights on marketing to older consumers?
-Hope for the older generation and those who are getting there
And much more.
Resources:
-Further: Midlife Health, Wealth, and Personal Growth Newsletter: https://further.net/
-The Longevity Economy by Dr. Joseph Coughlin: https://longevityeconomy.com/
Connect with Brian Clark:
-Website: https://www.longevitygains.com/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thatbrianclark/
Connect with Maureen Clough:
-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -
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