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John Vervaeke and Evan Thompson continue the exploration of life, cognition, and consciousness, drawing from interdisciplinary collaboration and philosophical discourse. The discussion challenges reductionist perspectives in biology, examines organisms as autonomous agents, and questions the adequacy of current models to explain life's complexities. Consciousness is explored through presence and embodiment, while also debating the roles of large language models like ChatGPT in understanding cognitive processes. By integrating philosophical and phenomenological perspectives, the episode addresses the interconnectedness of consciousness, cognition, and life, transcending traditional mind-matter dichotomies and emphasizing the significance of embodiment in cognitive functions.
Evan Thompson is a philosopher and author, specializing in the integration of cognitive science, philosophy of mind, and Asian philosophical traditions. Based at the University of British Columbia, his work, including his recent book 'The Blind Spot', examines the intersections of consciousness, experience, and reality through a comprehensive interdisciplinary approach.
Immerse yourself in the groundbreaking insights of Evan Thompson's thought-provoking book, "The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience”
Notes:
(0:00) Introduction: Welcome to the Lectern
(0:15) Evan Thompson's Background and the Book 'The Blind Spot'
(2:10) The Blind Spot in Perception: Cognitive Science, Asian Philosophy, and Mystical Insight
(2:30) Revolution in Biology: Life, Cognition, and Consciousness
(5:00) Autonomous Agents vs. Machines
(11:30) Challenges to Newtonian Mechanics and Reductionist Ontology
(22:00) Life as Self-Enabling, Not law-Entailing
(32:00) Historical and Nomological Explanations in Biology
(39:00) Epiphenomenalism
(43:00) Debunking Computational Functionalism
(45:00) Exploring Cognition and Relevance Realization
(49:00) Limits of AI
(51:00) The Energy and Social Costs of AI
(1:00:00) Structures of Consciousness
(1:08:00) The Primacy of Awareness and Embodiment
(1:22:00) Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions
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Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Evan Thompson: Website | Twitter | Facebook
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - book co-authored by Evan Thompson, Adam Frank, and Marcelo Gleiser
Waking, Dreaming, Being: Self and Consciousness in Neuroscience, Meditation, and Philosophy - book by Evan Thompson
Why I Am Not a Buddhist - book by Evan Thompson
The Nature of Selection: Evolutionary Theory in Philosophical Focus by Elliott Sober
The Watchmen (comic series) by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons
The Relevance Realization (paper) by John Vervaeke and colleagues
Chalmers' work on consciousness works by David Chalmers
The Visible and the Invisible by Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Neoplatonism
Hegelian Philosophy
Immanuel Kant
Alfred North Whitehead
Douglas Harding
Marcelo Gleiser
Quotes:
“Organisms are autonomous agents, not machines.” -Evan Thompson (4:00)
“Consciousness has the order of priority in terms of intelligibility or meaning.” -Evan Thompson (1:04:00)
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In this episode, John Vervaeke and Harvard professor Charles Stang explore the concept of the 'daimon’', stemming from Stang's book Our Divine Double. John and Charles discuss semi-autonomous entities in psychological and philosophical contexts, linking ancient wisdom and modern cognitive science. Key topics include Socratic 'daimonion', Platonic thought, phenomenology of visionary encounters, and cultural ontology. They emphasize the embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended nature of cognition, highlighting the relevance of understanding these phenomena amid emerging technologies like AGI and virtual realities. The episode calls for Socratic self-awareness to navigate these transformative potentials and risks.
Charles Stang is a Professor of Theology at Harvard Divinity School and Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions. His research focuses on ancient Mediterranean religions, Neoplatonism, and contemporary philosophy and spirituality. His research and teaching focus on the history of Christianity in the context of the ancient Mediterranean world, especially Eastern varieties of Christianity. More specifically, his interests include: the development of asceticism, monasticism, and mysticism in Christianity; ancient philosophy, especially Neoplatonism; the Syriac Christian tradition, especially the spread of the East Syrian tradition along the Silk Road; other philosophical and religious movements of the ancient Mediterranean, including Gnosticism, Hermeticism, and Manichaeism; and modern continental philosophy and theology, especially as they intersect with the study of religion.
Notes:
(0:00) Introduction: Welcome to the Lectern
(2:30) Charles Stang, Background, Framework
(4:45) John’s Experience and Dialogue with Hermes (IFS)
(7:45) IFS (Internal Family Systems) - a psychotherapy model that focuses on dialoguing with various parts of the self
(10:00) Platonic Tradition and Daimonology
(15:00) Socrates and the Concept of Daimonion in Plato's Apology
(20:40) Real-Life Accounts of Felt Presence
(28:00) Socrates' Complex Relationship with the Imaginal
(33:00) Socrates' Authority vs. Rational Argument
(41:30) Corbin's Notion of the Imaginal
(46:30) Daimonology and Angelology - Encounters with the Higher Self
(49:00) The Role of Hermes in Personal Encounters
(54:30) Lucid Dreaming and Cognitive Science
(1:03:30) The Interplay of Subjective and Objective Realities
(01:12:00) Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
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John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Plato, Apology
Plato, Republic
Charles Stang, Our Divine Double
John Geiger, The Third Man Factor: Surviving the Impossible
Henry Corbin, The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism
Henry Corbin, Alone with the Alone: Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn 'Arabi'
Gregory Shaw, Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplationism of Iamblichus
Socrates
Socratic philosophy
Daimonion (Divine sign)
David Gordon White, Daemons Are Forever: Contacts and Exchanges in the Eurasian Pandemonium
Porphyry, Life of Plotinus
Daimonology
Paul VanderKlay
Christopher Mastropietro
Carl Jung
Theurgy
Internal Family Systems (IFS)
Quotes:
"Socrates’ daimonion was unique in that it only ever told him ‘no,’ which highlights its role as a dissuading force rather than a guiding one." — Charles Stang (13:30)
“One of the things that seems to be a requirement for rationality is a metacognitive ability, ability to step back and reflect, and know, become aware of your cognition so that you can redirect it. In fact, that seems to be an essential feature. If you don't have that, if your attention and intelligence couldn't ever do this reflective thing, then it's hard to know how you could ever be rational in the, in the way we seem to indicate like noticing bias or noticing fallacy or noticing misdirection.” — John Vervaeke (39:40)
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In this presentation delivered at the "Metaphysics and the Matter with Things: Thinking with Iain McGilchrist" conference—a collaborative event by the Center for Process Studies (CPS) and the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in March 2024—John Vervaeke explores the concept of "mattering" and its critical role in understanding the meaning of life. He contrasts "meaning in life" with the broader "meaning of life," emphasizing the importance of connectedness and belonging over mere purpose. Vervaeke draws on research to introduce "religio," a deep sense of connectedness that underpins our existence, and critiques materialism for overlooking the relational aspects of human life. Through cognitive science, biology, and philosophy, Vervaeke demonstrates how our intelligence and problem-solving abilities are deeply intertwined with our capacity to find what truly matters.
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Metaphysics and the Matter with Things: Thinking with Iain McGilchrist was a collaborative conference put on by the Center for Process Studies (CPS) and the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in March of 2024. This three-day conference brought leading process thinkers across various disciplines, including physics, neuroscience, psychology, philosophy, and theology, into critical dialogue with McGilchrist’s work in a collegial effort to assess, question, extend, and apply it. For more information on the conference and to purchase recordings, please visit https://ctr4process.org/mcgilchrist-conference/
Embark on a journey of personal growth and meaning with us. Join our Patreon Patreon community, where shared wisdom fuels transformation.
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0:00 Introduction to the Metaphysics of Mattering
1:05 Meaning in Life: Purpose, Coherence, Significance, and Mattering
6:40 Connectedness and Religio
10:10 Relevance Realization and General Intelligence
12:45 The Problem of Relevance Realization
21:20 Formalization and Ill-Defined Problems
27:10 Relationality and the Sacred
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Matthew Segall
Richard Tarnas
Kelly-Ann Allen
Evan Thompson
Read Montague
Michael Levin
Aristotle
Zak Stein
Nietzsche
Iain McGilchrist
Christopher Cherniak
Jerry Fodor
J.L. Schellenberg
Relevance Realization
Religio
Conformity theory
Duhem–Quine thesis,
Susan Wolf, Meaning in Life and Why It Matters
John Searle, The Rediscovery of the Mind
Catherine Pickstock, Aspects of Truth: A New Religious Metaphysics
Harold Brown, Rationality
James Filler, Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being: Relation as Ontological Ground
J. Jaeger, A. Riedl, A. Djedovic, J. Vervaeke, and D. Walsh, Naturalizing relevance realization: why agency and cognition are fundamentally not computational
Frank Martela and Michael F. Steger, Distinguishing coherence, purpose, and significance
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Kasra Mirzaie is a clinical researcher, psychotherapist, and university teacher. His work focuses on adolescents, examining the intersection of psychotherapy, dynamical systems theory, and the meaning crisis. Kasra is dedicated to exploring how self-organizing criticality and Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy can drive transformation and personal growth in young people.
Dr Robin Barre has over 30 years of experience working with adolescents. Her dissertation focused on trauma and the archetypal nature of adolescence. She runs a small psychotherapy practice and consults with parents, caregivers, and organizations to enhance adolescent well-being.
How does the intricate dance of self-organizing criticality relate to the turmoil and transformation of adolescence?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke, Kasra Mirzaie, and Dr Robin Barre explore the transformative potential of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy in addressing the meaning crisis and supporting adolescents on their developmental journey. The conversation delves into the complex interplay of IFS, dynamical systems, and the critical phase transition of adolescence. They discuss principles such as self-organizing criticality, entropy, and insight, explaining how these concepts drive change and present unique challenges and opportunities. The episode highlights cultural shortcomings, the significance of wisdom traditions, and the role of IFS as a modern initiation process.
Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
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00:00 Introduction and Guest Introductions
02:45 Self-Organizing Criticality & IFS
07:20 Entropy and Insight in Change
20:20 Curiosity and Transformation
23:15 Adolescence and the Meaning Crisis
47:05 Culture's Disabling Effects
50:00 IFS Initiation for Adolescents
01:04:50 Remembering Adolescence and Navigating Mistakes
01:13:40 Communicating Conflict and Validating Adolescents
01:21:10 Embracing Transformation in Adolescence and the Meaning Crisis
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy
Tatjana Schnell
Dr Kelly-Ann Allen
Bill Plotkin
James Hillman
Vygotsky
Richard Frankel, The Adolescent Psyche
National Scientific Council on Adolescence, Cultivating Purpose in AdolescenceRelevant Episodes
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis
Is IFS a Path to Self-Knowledge or Self-Deception? Insights from Kasra Mirzaie
Transforming Identity: The Power of IFS Therapy and Ancient Wisdom | Paul Vander KlayInside the Mind: Marc Lewis on Transformative Healing with Internal Family Systems Therapy
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3
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Can we find meaning in a world without religion?
In this episode first released on Dissident Dialogues, Freddie Sayers hosts John Vervaeke and Alex O'Connor, formerly known as Cosmic Skeptic, to explore the deep question of meaning in an increasingly secular world. They discuss the historical role of religion in providing purpose and narrative, the modern challenges of finding meaning, and the rise of non-propositional forms of knowledge and practice. O'Connor and Vervaeke share personal anecdotes and philosophical insights, highlighting the timeless struggle for meaning, the limitations of relying solely on logical arguments, and the potential of emerging communities and practices to fill the void left by traditional religious structures.
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00:00 Introduction: The Loss of American Narrative
02:00 The Meaning Crisis in a Secular Age
04:32 Exploring Atheism and Meaning
07:35 Philosophical Perspectives on Meaning
12:35 The Role of Non-Propositional Knowledge
18:31 The Search for New Narratives
30:19 Conclusion: Emerging Communities and Future Prospects
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
Follow us:
John Vervaeke: Website | X | YouTube | Patreon
Alex O’Connor: YouTube
Freddie Sayers: X
Dissident Dialogues: X | Instagram | Facebook
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Nicholas Janni is a pioneer in executive development, having co-founded Olivier Mythodrama Associates, where he created leadership programs based on Shakespearean stories. He continues to work globally with leaders and organizations through his consultancy, Core Presence, and his innovative 'Leader as Healer' program, which promotes integrated, conscious leadership.
How can the ancient practices of spirituality and modern leadership development intersect to create transformative experiences?
In this episode of “Voice with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke and Nicholas Janni explore this question through a conversation about leadership, spirituality, and human connection. Nicholas shares his transformative journey, from his school days to his encounters with Tibetan Buddhism and immersive theater, which led him to develop a unique approach to spiritual and embodied leadership. They discuss the importance of leaders connecting with their bodies, emotions, and the transpersonal, and the role of practices like bodywork, deep breathing, and poetry in facilitating this connection. Their conversation also explores the metaphysical realm, including prayer and spiritual guidance, and their impact on leadership. John and Nicholas discuss the cultural implications of their work and stress the importance of leaders who can promote this holistic approach to leadership and foster supportive communities for transformative experiences.
Dive deeper into the journey of personal growth and meaning by becoming part of our Patreon community, where shared wisdom fuels transformation.
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00:00 Introduction: Convergence of Spirituality and Leadership
11:25 From Theatre to Leadership Consultancy
16:40 The Birth of 'Leader as Healer'
23:35 Reawakening Non-Propositional Thinking
43:40 The Transformative Power of Poetry
48:05 Therapy vs. Transformational Work
51:10 Integrating Awakening and Healing
01:02:55 Addressing the Modern Meaning Crisis
01:15:50 Embracing Prayer, Reverence, and Connectedness
01:24:30 Concluding Thoughts: The Imperative to Wake Up
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Nicholas Janni, Leader as Healer
Heinrich Päs, The One: How an Ancient Idea Holds the Future of Physics
Vivian Dittmar
Richard Olivier
Shakespeare's Globe Theatre
Shakespeare, W. Henry V.
Shakespeare, W. Julius Caesar.
Shakespeare, W. The Tempest.
Malidoma Somé
Michael Meade
Patrick Connor
Charles Taylor
David Wyatt
Mary Oliver, Wild Geese.Plato
René Descartes
Relevant Episodes
Exploring the Transrational: A Journey into the Realms of Consciousness with Vivian Dittmar Transpersonal States: Awakening, Enlightenment, and the Ego | Vivian Dittmar Exploring Emotions and Transrational Wisdom with Vivian Dittmar
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | X | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Nicholas Janni: Website | Email | LinkedIn
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Brendan Graham Dempsey is the director of Sky Meadow Institute and the author of the Metamodern Spirituality Series. He explores the evolution of spirituality and the integration of science and religion in contemporary culture. To learn more about his latest book release, "A Universal Learning Process," which is the first volume in his series "The Evolution of Meaning," please visit this link.
Can Metamodern Christianity breathe new life into ancient religious frameworks?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Brendan Graham Dempsey continue their exploration of MetaModern Christianity in part two of their discussion. Building on their previous conversation, which addressed the potential for metamodern spirituality to rejuvenate the Christian faith, they delve deeper into the integration of ancient doctrines with contemporary thought. They tackle the limitations of traditional religious frameworks, explore the concept of ultimate reality and the sacred through a non-theistic lens, and emphasize the significance of dialogical relationships in meaning-making. Vervaeke and Dempsey connect these insights to broader philosophical and cultural themes, examining the evolution of spiritual maturity, the interplay between personhood and the universe, and the integration of scientific and mystical perspectives.
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Embark on a journey of personal growth and meaning with us. Join our Patreon Patreon community, where shared wisdom fuels transformation.
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00:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One
00:45 Brendan's Work on Metamodern Spirituality
02:45 Ultimate Reality and the Sacred
13:25 Integrating Critiques: Schellenberg, Transcendence, and Non-Theism
16:50 Meaning and Learning in Sacred Evolution
29:20 Dialogical Relationship with the Sacred
41:45 God as Cosmic Self-Realization
50:00 Prayer and Maturation in Deep Time
54:30 Prayer and Transpersonal Dialogue
58:30 Prayer and Ultimate Reality
01:15:05 Conclusion: The Evolution of Meaning and the Sacred
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
J.L. Schellenberg
Gregg Henriques
Rudolf Otto
Clifford Geertz
Carl Sagan
Meister Eckhart
Paul Tillich
Iain McGilchrist
Martin Heidegger
Michael Levin
Epicurus
Bobby Azarian
Kasra Mirzaie
Leonard Angel
Spinoza
John Hick
Dan Chiappe
Paul Tillich
Dionysus
Brendan Graham Dempsey, A Universal Learning Process (The Evolution of Meaning)
Matt Rossano, Ritual in Human Evolution and Religion
Joseph A. Bracken, The Divine Matrix: Creativity As Link Between East and West
Leonard Angel, Enlightenment East and West
Relevant Episodes
Reviving Faith with Metamodern Spirituality and the Future of Christianity | Brendan Graham Dempsey
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Follow Brendan Graham Dempsey: Website | X | Facebook
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Have we confined the true essence of sainthood within too narrow a boundary?
In this episode of 'Voices with Vervaeke,' John Vervaeke welcomes Christopher Mastropeitro and Andrew Sweeny for a discussion that delves into the philosophical and spiritual dimensions of their innovative project, the Philosophical Silk Road. Together, they challenge contemporary notions of sainthood and wisdom, drawing connections between Zen Buddhism, Neoplatonism, and Tantric practices. Through personal anecdotes and reflective dialogue, the trio examines the essence of saints and sages, the importance of humor and humility in spiritual journeys, and the delicate balance between our finite existence and the quest for transcendence. Join John, Chris, and Andrew as they share their spiritual paths and encounters with saintly figures, advocating for a renewed appreciation of the sacred in our modern world.
Andrew Sweeny is an educator, writer, musician, and podcaster. He teaches at Sciences Po University in Paris and is an editor at Parallax magazine. Sweeny explores Zen Buddhism, Tantric practices, and music through his media platform, Parallax, offering courses and podcasts.
Christopher Mastropietro is a philosophical writer fascinated by dialogue, symbols, and the concept of self. He is the executive director and an active contributor to the Vervaeke Foundation, collaborating on projects exploring wisdom, spirituality, and transformative dialogue.
Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
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00:00 Introducing the Guests and the Philosophical Silk Road
02:50 Andrew's Path: Zen, Tantra, and Music
05:05 Exploring the Philosophical Silk Road
07:00 Dialogos and Sacred Emergence
10:40 Setting the Stage: Connecting Zen, Neoplatonism, and Theurgy
21:40 Tantra's Influence in East and West
31:40 Reflections on Saintliness
44:25 The Enigma of Crazy Wisdom and Non-Conformity
52:10 Understanding the Hidden Order and Profound Humanity of Saints
01:09:05 The Role of Romanticism and Humor in Sainthood
01:17:40 Pilgrimage and the Saintly Path
01:19:30 Final Reflections
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Kitaro Nishida
Alicia Juarrero
Friedrich Nietzsche
James Filler
Erich Fromm
Chögyam Trungpa
Heidegger
Plato
Nagarjuna
Christianity
Neoplatonism
Socrates
Thomas Aquinas
Augustine
Joseph A. Bracken, The Divine Matrix: Creativity As Link Between East and West
Gregory Shaw, Hellenic Tantra: The Theurgic Platonism of Iamblichus
Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice
Lotus Guru Padmasambhava, The Tibetan Book of the Dead
Albert Camus, The Plague
Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov; The Idiot
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Andrew Sweeny: Medium | Twitter | YouTube
Connect with Christopher Mastropietro
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Key Words:
Philosophical Silk Road, John Vervaeke, Andrew Sweeny, Christopher Mastropietro, Zen Buddhism, Neoplatonism, Tantra, dialogos, John Vervaeke podcast, Voices with Vervaeke, sacred journeys, spiritual growth, transformative dialogue, spiritual wisdom, cognitive science, psychology of religion, meaning crisis, philosophical podcasts, spiritual practices, Eastern and Western traditions, romanticism in spirituality, humor in spirituality, sacred and secular, spiritual transformation, evolutionary psychology
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Kasra Mirzaie is a clinical researcher, psychotherapist, and university teacher. His work focuses on adolescents, exploring the interplay between psychotherapy, spirituality, and self-deception.
Can understanding all parts of ourselves sometimes lead us away from the truth?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke continues to explore Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy with guest Kasra Mirzaie. They discuss the paradox of IFS as both a path to self-discovery and a potential source of self-deception. Their conversation covers the intersection of spirituality and science within IFS, offering listeners insights into this therapeutic approach. Mirzaie shares personal experiences, emphasizing the transformative roles of love and forgiveness in therapy. Vervaeke and Mirzaie also examine the philosophical and cognitive scientific foundations of IFS, setting the stage for future discussions on self-organizing criticality and the relationship between cognitive science and spirituality. This episode aims to broaden listeners' understanding of the self and provide new perspectives on human psychology.
Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
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00:00 Introduction and Mirzaie's Background and Work
03:00 Exploring Self-Deception
17:00 The Role of Love and Forgiveness
22:50 The Spiritual Dimension of IFS
34:40 Self-Deception and Spiritual Bypassing
38:45 Spirit of Self-Deception: The Paradox of Adaptation and Growth
43:00 The Paradox of the Fall and Self-Consciousness
45:40 Relational Reality and the Self
59:50 The Therapeutic Approach to Trauma
01:06:25 Conclusion: Gratitude, Growth, and Ongoing Exploration
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy
Neoplatonism
Mark Lewis
Paul Vander Klay
Seth Allison
Marc Lewis
Milton's Lucifer
William Desmond
Heidegger
William Blake
Filler
Jung
Nietzsche
Vygotsky
Nishita
Kirkegaard
Tom Holmes, Parts Work: a Path of the Heart: Healing Journeys Integrating IFS and Spirituality
Christopher Ben Simpson, The William Desmond Reader
Robert B. Brandom, A Spirit of Trust: A Reading of Hegel’s Phenomenology
Relevant Episodes
Transforming Identity: The Power of IFS Therapy and Ancient Wisdom | Paul Vander Klay
Inside the Mind: Marc Lewis on Transformative Healing with Internal Family Systems Therapy
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
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Keywords
John Vervaeke, Kasra Mirzaie, Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, self-deception, spirituality and science, cognitive science foundations, love and forgiveness, personal transformation, self-organizing criticality, cognitive science and spirituality, relationality in therapy, self-identity and agency, therapeutic practices, modern spirituality, Voices with Vervaeke podcast
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Paul Vander Klay is a minister at Living Stones CRC in Sacramento, CA, known for his engaging online discussions on faith and thoughtful community engagement.
How can the convergence of ancient spiritual practices and modern cognitive science redefine our understanding of identity and collective wisdom?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Paul Vander Klay explore the intersections of personal transformation and collective wisdom. They discuss the role of spiritual practices like Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy in modern society and their implications for personal growth and collective understanding. The conversation highlights the significance of relationality in understanding agency and cognition, emphasizing how our relationships with others shape our sense of self and our ability to navigate the world. John and Paul also address the advent of the sacred in modern culture and the potential for new cultural cognitive grammars. They share insights from their personal and professional experiences, offering a thought-provoking exploration of modern spirituality and relational being. This episode leaves listeners with a deeper understanding of how personal growth and collective wisdom are intertwined.
Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
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00:00 Introduction: Faith, Friendship, and Exploration
03:10 Exploring IFS Therapy, Dialogical Self, and Archetypal Experiences
08:50 Dialoguing with Hermes: Ally Work and Neoplatonic Traditions
14:00 Dialogical Models and Changing Public Perception of Humans
22:50 Rethinking the Self: Transjectivity, Relationality, and the Imaginal
28:00 Beyond Substance Ontology
55:00 Dialogical Presencing and Transjective Ontology in Religion
58:05 Communal Aspects of Christian Tradition
01:01:35 Dialogical Practice and Hermetic Consciousness
01:05:25 Therapeutic Practices and Self-Deception
01:12:15 Exploring the Sacred in IFS and Dialogical Practices
01:40:50 Conclusion: Embracing Vulnerability and Honesty
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy
Dialogical Practices
Hermes (Guiding Figure)
Proclus
Plotinus
Jordan Peterson
Jonathan Pageau
Seth Allison
Kasra Mirzaie
Richard Schwartz
Marc Lewis
Anderson Todd
Jeffrey Raff
Dallas Willard
James Fuller
Robert Falconer
Sam Tideman
Paul Kingsnorth
Martin Shaw
Richard Rohlin (Universal History)
Gregory Shaw, Hellenic Tantra: The Theurgic Platonism of Iamblichus
Ben Alderson-Day, Presence: The Strange Science and True Stories of the Unseen Other
T. M. Luhrmann, How God Becomes Real: Kindling the Presence of Invisible Others
Paul Ricoeur, Fallible Man: Philosophy of the Will
Plato, The Seventh Letter
Charles Taylor
Neoplatonism
Socrates
Relevant Episodes
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis
The Elusive I - Part 1 - The Cognitive Science Show
AI Sages and the Ethical Frontier: Exploring Human Values, Embodiment, and Spiritual Realms
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Paul Vander Klay: Blog | Twitter | YouTube
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Thomas Jockin is a Fellow at the Halkyon Guild and the Founder of TypeThursday. He has taught at Pratt Institute, FIT (SUNY), Queens College (CUNY), and City College of New York (CUNY).
Sign Up for Thomas Jockin’s Course: Plato on Beauty and Virtue | Halkyon Academy
Can re-engaging with classical ideals of beauty help us address the meaning crisis?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Thomas Jockin explore the concept of beauty through the lens of Plato's philosophy. Thomas shares insights from his upcoming course, discussing the interconnectedness of beauty, truth, and goodness. They examine how modern interpretations of beauty differ from Plato's original vision and how re-engaging with classical ideals can address the current meaning crisis. John and Thomas challenge contemporary perspectives and seek to rediscover foundational principles. Join the discussion to learn more about the profound impact of beauty on our lives.
Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon.
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00:00 Exploring Plato's Concept of Beauty with Thomas Jockin
01:10 Jockin’s Halcyon Course: Plato on Beauty and Virtue
04:25 The Cultural Decline of Beauty
08:00 Plato's Beauty: Love, Reason, and the Soul's Recollection
10:25 Philosophical Implications of Beauty, Love, and Truth
24:00 The Rationality of Beauty Beyond Propositions
31:45 The Cascade Effect of Moral Virtues in Everyday Life
35:55 Bridging the Material and the Divine
40:55 The Interconnectedness of Beauty, Goodness, and Truth
51:15 Modern Art and the Role of the Artist
01:08:15 Beauty as a Solution to the Meaning Crisis in Modern Art and Architecture
01:14:25 Conclusion: Returning to Foundations in the Modern World
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Plato. Greater Hippias.
Plato. Symposium.
Plato. Phaedrus.
Plato. Meno.
Plato. Cratylus.
Plato. Parmenides.
Sonia Sedivy, Beauty and the End of Art
Byung-Chul Han, Saving Beauty
Drew A. Hyland, Plato and the Question of Beauty
D. C. Schindler, “The Primacy of Beauty, the Centrality of Goodness, and the Ultimacy of Truth”
John Russon, Bearing Witness to Epiphany: Persons, Things, and the Nature of Erotic Life
Duchamp (Fountain)
Heidegger
Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Habermas
Neoplatonism
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Thomas Jockin: Website | Twitter | LinkedIn
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Thank you for Listening!
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Marc Lewis is a neuroscientist and former professor of developmental psychology, who taught at the University of Toronto and Radboud University. He is the author of numerous journal publications and books, including Memoirs of an Addicted Brain and The Biology of Desire.
How can understanding our internal parts lead to emotional healing and personal growth?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Marc Lewis explore Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. They examine the emotional landscapes that shape our behaviors, the interaction of different parts of the mind, and the transformative potential of self-compassion in therapy. This conversation provides insights into psychological healing, challenging conventional views and offering new perspectives on personal growth and recovery.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon Community.
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00:00 Introduction: Understanding Addiction and Emotional Regulation through IFS Therapy
03:15 Marc's Academic Journey and Neuroscience Insights
05:35 The Power of IFS Therapy: A Faster Route to Healing and Understanding
11:35 Practical Applications of IFS and Why it Works
21:00 Dialoguing with Our Inner Selves
33:50 Exploring the Concept of Self in IFS
43:55 Bridging Therapy, Spirituality, and Emotional Healing
48:20 Balancing Growth, Responsibility, and the Role of the Self
01:00:00 Navigating Cultural Reactivity and Spiritual Dimensions
01:13:35 The Importance of Guidance and Pedagogical Preparation
01:17:15 Conclusion: The Evolving Nature of IFS Therapy and the Need for Continued Inquiry
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Plato, Republic
Richard Schwartz, No Bad Parts
Cece Sykes, Internal Family Systems Therapy for Addictions: Trauma-Informed, Compassion-Based Interventions for Substance Use, Eating, Gambling and More
Wizard of Oz (film)
Seth Allison
Kasra Mirzaie
Lucas Forstmeyer
Gedankenexperiment
Relevant Episodes
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Marc Lewis: Website | YouTube
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Thank you for Listening!
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Vivian Dittmar is an author, speaker, and wisdom teacher dedicated to enhancing holistic development for over two decades. Through her books and the Be the Change Foundation, she focuses on emotional intelligence, ecological sustainability, social justice, and spiritual fulfillment to address modern society's crises.
What does it mean to truly transcend the ego and embrace a transpersonal state of being?
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke and Vivian Dittmar thoughtfully explore enlightenment, viewing it not as a final destination but as an ongoing journey of maturation and integration. They challenge conventional perspectives on enlightenment, proposing a more dynamic interplay between personal growth and spiritual awakening. By examining the delicate balance required to maintain higher states of consciousness while cultivating a healthy personal self, they illuminate the complexities of spiritual bypassing and the necessity of embracing imperfection. Their conversation also delves into the importance of vulnerability, aligning inner and outer worlds, the role of synchronicity, and the transformative power of confronting our own mortality. Join them as they unravel these intricate themes with intellectual rigor, poetic insight, and a commitment to deepening our understanding of what it means to lead a truly awakened life.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon Community.
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00:00 Introduction: Exploring Transpersonal and Transegoic States
02:10 Navigating the Spectrum of Egoic and Transrational Consciousness
07:20 Beyond the Social Conscience: Discovering the Voice of the Soul
12:35 Exploring the Implicate Order and Transrational Ways of Knowing
19:00 Redefining Spiritual Awakening and the Mythology Surrounding It
23:25 Bridging the Gap between Inner and Outer Worlds through Wisdom and Virtue
32:20 Cultivating a Healthy Personal Self after Enlightenment
43:45 Beyond Spiritual Bypassing and the Pursuit of Perfection in the Journey Towards Wholeness
57:00 Facing Mortality: A Journey Towards Wholeness and Maturity
01:18:00 Conclusion: Reflections on Convergence, Gratitude, and the Quest for True Prosperity
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The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
The Death of Ivan Ilyich, by Leo Tolstoy
David Bohm
Plato
Carl Jung
Leo Tolstoy
Spinoza
Fallible Man, by Paul Ricoeur
Relevant Episodes
Exploring the Transrational: A Journey into the Realms of Consciousness with Vivian Dittmar
Exploring Emotions and Transrational Wisdom with Vivian Dittmar
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3
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Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Vivian Dittmar: Website | YouTube
Workshops/Courses:
Introduction to the Practice of Conscious Release
How Big Is Your Emotional Backpack?
The Emotional BackpackBooks:
The Emotional Backpack
Your Inner GPS
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Thank you for Listening!
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Gregg Henriques is a professor at James Madison University, author of "A New Unified Theory of Psychology," and a leader in the Unified Psychotherapy Movement, with over 20 years of experience in psychology and psychotherapy, specializing in adult psychopathology.
Pascal Layman is a philosopher based in Northern Ontario, known for his groundbreaking work on the metaphysics of adjacency, the coaxial stages model, and metaprogressive politics.
Bruce Alderman is an accomplished musician, visual artist, and deep meditation practitioner. He is the producer of The Integral Stage podcast and the organizer of the Blue Sky Leadership Program at the California Institute for Integral Studies.
Does the universe hold inherent mystery, or is our scientific understanding merely inadequate?
In this episode of The Cognitive Science Show, John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques are joined by Layman Pascal and Bruce Alderman to reflect on the Transcendent Naturalism series and explore its potential for fostering collective transcendence. The discussion covers a range of topics, including the importance of ethical and relational dimensions in our understanding of the world, the role of art and meaning-making in a meta-modern context, and the layered ontology of nature. Join us to explore this fascinating approach to understanding how transcendent naturalism can shed light on our world and guide us toward a deeper sense of purpose.
Gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by supporting John's innovative work on Patreon.
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“IPS (Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality) wants to leave room for the interplay of transcendence and immanence, but without needing to posit an unthinkable outside to reality. It's in strong accord with transcendent naturalism in this regard." - Bruce Alderman [08:37]
"John's proposed simple move to arrive at an extended naturalism, getting science to more explicitly accept what it already presupposes, is genius. There's much more that could be said about that, but my simple response is bravo." - Bruce Alderman [08:49]
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0:00 - Introduction: Series Finale and Overview of Transcendent Naturalism Series
4:00 - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality and its Flexible Nature
14:10 - Influential Theories and Thinkers: Integrating Cognitive Science, Philosophy, and Transcendence
24:20 - Flexible Metaphysics and the Layered Ontology of Transcendent Naturalism
32:50 - Theology, Art, and Literature: Navigating the AGI and Meaning Crisis
39:20 - Participatory Spiritual Practices and Metaphysical Rituals
45:20 - Strong Transcendence with Preeminent Imminence
53:40 - The Role of Art and Narrative in Transcendent Naturalism
57:00 - Cultivating a Transformative Curriculum: Reimagining Institutional Roles in Spiritual Growth
1:10:20 - Conclusion: Culminating Thoughts and Future Pathways
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Help advance the pursuit of scientifically rigorous wisdom and make a meaningful impact by joining the Vervaeke Foundation. Learn more at The Vervaeke Foundation
Deepen your virtues and foster authentic connections in life by joining Awaken to Meaning. Start your journey today at Awaken to Meaning
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If you're interested in learning more about transcendent naturalism, be sure to check out the Cognitive Science Show.
Towards a Metapsychology that is true to Transformation w/ Gregg Henriques and Zachary Stein
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Follow John Vervaeke:
Website | X/Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Gregg Henriques:
Website | X/Twitter | UTOK
Follow Layman Pascal:
Substack | X/Twitter | YouTube
Follow Bruce Alderman:
LinkedIn | Facebook
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Thank you for Listening!
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Brendan Graham Dempsey is an author and speaker specializing in metamodern spirituality, exploring the intersections of traditional faith and contemporary thought.
How can ancient faith traditions adapt to the complexities of the modern world?
In this episode of Voices with Vervaeke, John Vervaeke and Brendan Graham Dempsey explore the potential for metamodern spirituality to breathe new life into the Christian faith. Dempsey shares his transformative journey from traditional beliefs to a metamodern perspective that integrates ancient doctrines with contemporary thought. Their discussion addresses challenging issues such as historical and postmodern critiques of the Bible, the complex relationship between faith and science, and the psychological underpinnings of religious practices. This conversation aims to rejuvenate our understanding of Christianity and enrich our engagement with reality, setting the stage for future dialogues on the essence of God and the sacred.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
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"I'm interested in the ways that spirituality begins to dovetail with the sciences, where that antagonism many of us are familiar with is transcended and healed in a profound way." - Brendan Graham Dempsey [00:04:00]
"We need the language of explaining because the language of explaining is the language of science. If we don't have a properly cultivated language of explaining, the gulf between spirituality and science will remain. That is one of the significant drivers of the meaning crisis." - John Vervaeke [00:15:33]
"What's the point of the religious relationship to Jesus? Is it to accurately capture the past or wisely prepare you for the future? I think the latter is exactly what it's most properly for." John Vervaeke [00:39:28]
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0:00 Introduction: Brendan's Christian Roots and Academic Journey
06:20 Modern and Postmodern Biblical Critiques
10:15 Metamodern Christianity and Its Challenges
13:40 Training vs. Explaining in Religious Contexts
20:45 Bridging Historical Jesus and Imaginal Christ
43:05 Faith, Maturation, and the Interplay of Training and Explanation
51:50 Imaginal Recovery and Theological Continuity
01:02:45 Navigating Order and Chaos: Spiritual Growth Dynamics
01:27:30 Conclusion: Exploring the Numinous - God, Sacredness, and Ultimate Reality
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Become a part of The Vervaeke Foundation's mission to promote the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and create a lasting impact on the world.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
---
The Meaning of Meaning | Transcendent Naturalism #7
The Future of Faith | Transcendent Naturalism #8
Unlocking the Mysteries of Meaning: An Intellectual Odyssey
The Artful Scaling of the Religion that is not a religion w/ Layman Pascal & Brendan Graham Dempsey
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Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in This Episode:
Metamodernism
Transcendent Naturalism
Jesus of Nazareth
Biblical Studies
Postmodern Critiques
Nietzsche
Foucault
Derrida
Spinoza
Plato
Xenophon
Aristophanes
Solon
Aristotle
Henry IV, V, and IV (Shakespeare)
Shakespeare’s early works
Plato's Socrates
H.G. Gadamer
T.S. Eliot
J.R.R. Tolkien
C.S. Lewis
G.W.F. Hegel
J.L. Schellenberg
J.Campbell
C.Jung
Jordan Peterson
Jared Morningstar
Dr. Johannes A. Niederhauser (Halkyon Academy)
J.A.S. Kelso
Paul (Apostle)
Brian McLaren
D.C. Schindler
Paul Vander Klay
The Language of Coaching by Nick Winkelman
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Follow John Vervaeke: Website | X/Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Brendan Graham Dempsey: Website | X/Twitter | Facebook
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Thank you for listening!
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Gregg Henriques is a clinical psychologist and professor at James Madison University. He is known for his Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK), which integrates various domains of psychology into a coherent framework.
Bonnita Roy is the founder of Alderlore Insight Center, a non-profit educational organization and the curator of The POP-UP School, an online learning community exploring new ways of thinking and acting.
Alexander Bard is a philosopher and futurist specializing in the relationship between humanity and technology, with a profound interest in psychoanalysis and anthropology to understand the impact of technological change on interpersonal relationships.
What drives our social connections and sense of belonging? Recorded live at UTOK Consilience Conference 2024, this episode features Gregg Henriques, Alexander Bard, Bonnitta Roy, and John Vervaeke examining the convergences and fault lines between transcendent naturalism and emergentism and the profound implications these theories have on our understanding of reality. By critiquing materialism, idealism, and dualism, the panel advocates for a new 21st-century philosophical framework that integrates Eastern and Western insights, emphasizing relationalism and dialectical thinking. Enriched with references to thinkers like Hegel, Whitehead, Nietzsche, and Deleuze, this dialogue explores the roles of cognitive science, spirituality, and community practices. Join this journey to uncover the essence of ultimate reality and the transformative potential of sacredness while underscoring the importance of humility, love, and pragmatic approaches to contemporary challenges.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
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00:00 Introduction: Setting the Stage for Transcendent Naturalism and Emergentism
03:30 John Vervaeke: Outline of Transcendent Naturalism
19:45 Bonnitta Roy's Perspective on Naturalism and Stratified Reality
32:00 Alexander Bard on the Necessity of Metaphysics and Transcendent Emergentism
48:00 Group Dialogue on UTOC Framework and Integrating Perspectives
01:11:00 Exploring Zoofism and the Philosophical Silk Road
01:18:45 Q&A: Integrating Transcendental Emergentism with Science and Philosophy
01:31:10 Alexander Bard on Integrating Hegel with Modern Thinkers
01:33:50 Ontology of Pure Relationality and the Future of Digital Networks and Decentralization
01:40:05 Stability, Relational Thinking, and Dynamic Systems
01:43:30 Final Thoughts and Reflections: Convergences and Future Directions
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Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today.
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Evan Thompson
Adam Frank
Marcelo Gleiser
James Blachowicz
Alicia Juarrero
Wolfgang SmithAspects of Truth: A New Religious Metaphysics by Catherine Pickstock
Willard Van Orman Quine
Hilary Putnam
Quine-Duhem
Immanuel Kant
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich HegelJames J. Gibson
Martin Heidegger
James Filler
Kyoto School
John L. Schellenberg
Roy Bhaskar
Sabine Hossenfelder
Eric Weinstein
Alfred North Whitehead
Friedrich Nietzsche
Henri Bergson
Dan Chiappe
Matt Segall
Bruno Latour
Diana Fosha
Gilles Deleuze
Process and Event by Alexander Bard and Jan Söderqvist
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Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Follow Gregg Henriques: Website | Twitter | UTOK
Follow Bonita : YouTube | Substack
Follow Alexander Bard Henriques: Blog | Twitter
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Thank you for Listening!
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Tataya Bailey is the founder and lead trainer of Prisma Leadership, combining her law degree, multiple yoga certifications, and over two decades of facilitation experience to create a unique leadership approach rooted in integrity and connection.
Rachel Hayden is a magpie of the Liminal Web, and occasional collaborator with people like John, Gregg Henriques, and Alexander Bard. Her background includes somatics, meditative and contemplative practice, and peer-based mental health
How can we heal and transform ourselves through embodied practices and the relational field? In this episode of Voices with Vervaeke, Tataya Bailey and Rachel Hayden join John Vervaeke to explore the transformative power of relational practices on personal growth and healing. They delve into the balance between structure and spontaneity, discuss handling trauma, and emphasize the significance of attention and attunement in fostering authentic connections. This episode highlights the beauty of human connection and the endless possibilities for transformation.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
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"I discovered capacities in me that I didn't even know I had." - Tataya Bailey [00:06:30]
"The experiences ranged from incredibly profound and bequeathing of a new dharma for me, all the way to working through shadow stuff, having alternate childhood experiences, and working through archetypal symbolism and tribal imagery between people. It was all like welcome there, and it was all material for that relationality, which I found so beautiful and so accessible to me." - Rachel Hayden [00:12:00]
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00:00 Introduction: Exploring Relational Practices
08:35 Rachel’s Prisma Experience: Embracing Vulnerability and Transformation
13:45 The Structure and Values of Prisma: Balancing Spontaneity and Containment
21:10 How Prisma Unlocks Relational Potential: Recovering Lost Parts and Deepening Connection
40:05 Attention and Attunement: Harmonizing Individuation and Participation
43:50 The Musicality of Relational Practices: The Dance of Metaphors and Sacred Rituals
50:50 Navigating Trauma and Safety in Relational Work
01:00:00 Embracing Discomfort: The Journey from Propositional to Participatory Connection
01:04:50 Re-exaptation and the Imaginal: The Role of Aporia in Transformative Practices
01:12:10 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations
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Become a part of The Vervaeke Foundation's mission to promote the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and create a lasting impact on the world.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Alanja Forsberg - Avalon Community
Alexander Bard
Seth Allison - IFS
James Carse - Infinite Game
Andrew Huberman
Kerry Ressler
Robert Kegan
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Follow Tataya Bailey: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn
—
Thank you for watching!
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Gregg Henriques is a clinical psychologist and professor at James Madison University. He is known for his Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK), which integrates various domains of psychology into a coherent framework.
What drives our social connections and sense of belonging? In this episode, originally recorded at the UTOC 2024 conference, John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques explore the profound concept of recursive relevance realization, focusing on its integration into a fourth R: interpersonal relationality. Their conversation intricately weaves together cognitive science, philosophy, and psychotherapy, presenting a compelling case for understanding how relevance realization shapes social value and collective intelligence. By providing insights into predictive processing and the influence matrix, they uncover the complex dynamics of human cognition and social interaction. This episode not only offers a theoretical framework but also practical strategies for fostering meaningful connections in various aspects of life.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
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“Meaning in life is exactly what Gregg described: what keeps you going even when your subjective well-being is going down.” - John Vervaeke [00:39:15]
“We need to be connected to what we deem to be really real.” - John Vervaeke [00:42:12]
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00:00 Introduction: Exploring the Fourth R
03:50 The Importance of Interpersonal Relationality
07:30 Exploring the Connection between Recursive Relevance Realization and the Influence Matrix
12:20 Anticipatory Relevance Realization: Integrating with the Influence Matrix and Predictive Processing
21:10 The Fourth R: Collective Intelligence and Reciprocal Recognition
23:30 Personal Memories and Relational Dynamics: Practical Examples
30:25 Integrating Theories: Bridging Science, Therapy, and Collective Intelligence
34:55 Social Influence vs. Relational Value: Implications for Society
38:35 Meaning in Life and Belonging: Integrative Insights
46:05 Reflections on Self and Social Justice: Future Directions
48:30 Final Thoughts: Collaboration and Convergence
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Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today.
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Timothy Leary - Circumplex Model
John Bowlby’s Attachment Theory
Michael Levin - Cognitive Light Cone
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit by Terry Pinkard
Jim Rutt - GameB Concept
Kelly-Ann Allen
Joshua Hicks
Grice's Maxims of Conversation
Untangling the World Knot - John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques
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Follow Gregg Henriques: Website | Twitter | UTOK
—
Thank you for watching!
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Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Plato's cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community!
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"Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention." - John Vervaeke [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are what's organizing our experience online. It's not a human being, but it's playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and people's development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” - Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isn't going to set us on a path to destruction. - John Vervaeke [00:59:16]
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0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Plato's Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
—
Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today.
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart Environments, Allostasis, and Metacognitive Control - Ben White and Mark Miller
Tristan Harris
Heidegger
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The Crossroads of Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization | Leiden SymposiumAI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist
—
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Follow Mahon McCann: Website | Instagram | YouTube
—
Thank you for watching!
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In the vast expanse of human thought, how do philosophy and spirituality intertwine to shape our understanding of the sacred? In this conversation, first released on Andrew Sweeny's channel, The Parallax, John Vervaeke, Andrew Sweeny, and Christopher Mastropietro examine the delicate balance between philosophical rigor and spiritual experiences. They probe the challenges and rewards of navigating this complex terrain, emphasizing the transformative power of love, wisdom, and existential inquiry. By blurring the traditional boundaries between philosophical inquiry and religious practice, this conversation invites listeners to deepen their exploration of truth and meaning, ultimately fostering personal and communal growth.
Andrew Sweeny is an educator, writer, musician, and podcaster who currently teaches at Sciences Po University in Paris and serves as an editor at Parallax magazine.
Christopher Mastropietro is a philosophical writer who is fascinated by dialogue, symbols, and the concept of self. He actively contributes to the Vervaeke Foundation.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis
Nothingness Beyond God: An Introduction to the Philosophy of Nishida Kitaro, by Robert Edgar Carter
Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis, co-authored by Christopher Mastropietro
Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being, by James Filler
Iain McGilchrist
Daniel Schmachtenberger
Bishop Maximus
Paul Vander Klay
T.S. Eliot
Jordan Peterson
Sallie McFague
Richard Dawkins
Carl Jung
Søren Kierkegaard
Jacob Howland
Douglas Hedley
Jordan Hall
“The more people I'm talking to—high caliber, high quality people in this whole arena—the advent of the sacred as a response to the meaning crisis is a growing theme. I have found myself more and more called into service to doing whatever I can to afford the advent of that.” - John Vervaeke [00:02:00]
"Nobody lives on the Silk Road; people move along it." - John Vervaeke [00:03:37]
"The idea of the Silk Road, to me, is that the wandering, and the traveling, and the encountering different influences, and the metabolizing of a lingua philosophica helps to create a space within oneself into which that inward process can pour itself, discover itself, and metabolize itself." - Christopher Mastropietro [00:10:57]
“The more I engage with this work, the more I realize that so much of the dawning consciousness of our encounter with the sacred is ultimately a process that happens to us. It occurs to us. We can bring consciousness to bear on it, and augment it, and make space for it, and inquire within it in such a way as to invite it.” - Christopher Mastropietro [00:11:23]
0:00 Embracing the Philosophical Silk Road: From Top-Down Religion to an Organic Spiritual Path
17:00 On the Philosophical Silk Road: An Interfaith Journey, Personal Transformation, and Confronting Idolatry
28:30 Beyond the Culture War: Embracing Authentic Dialogue and the Embodiment of Beliefs
35:40 The Unresolvable Dialogue: Embracing the Infinite Game Between Socrates and Jesus
44:10 Rediscovering the Essence of Faith: Beyond Doctrine to Personal Transformation
56:00 The Wildness of the Sacred: Recognizing and Integrating Spontaneous Spiritual Experiences
1:02:50 Philosophical and Sacred Synergies: Bridging the Divide through Love and Wisdom
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Thank you for listening!
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