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  • Today on Moment of Zen is a conversation I had with Samo Burja back in January 2024 on Japan's existential demographic crisis, analyzing how collapsing fertility rates and population aging threaten the nation's economic and geopolitical future. The discussion explores cultural barriers to family formation, automation limitations, and Japan's dilemma between preserving identity versus accepting transformative change.



    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:


    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers



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    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.



    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.



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    X / TWITTER:

    @SamoBurja

    @eriktorenberg

    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:

    Demographic Crisis



    Fertility rate collapsed to 1.3 - population shrinking from 125M to 50M this century


    Aging dependency ratio crushing economy - fewer workers supporting more elderly


    Young people may emigrate if decline accelerates


    Cultural Challenges



    Work vs. family contradiction - salaryman culture prioritizes career over children


    Proposed solution: Require executives to have 2+ kids


    97% ethnic homogeneity creates social cohesion but limits immigration options


    Economic Implications



    Automation needs scale - fewer people makes it less effective


    Japan's productivity gains vanish when controlling for aging


    Risk of economic tailspin and brain drain


    Military Transformation



    From pacifist to military power - world-class navy, converting carriers for F-35Bs


    Nuclear weapons ready - space program + plutonium = "some assembly required"

    Key player in Taiwan scenarios


    Geopolitical Positioning


    Economically tied to China, security-wise allied with US


    Will stay politically independent from China due to nationalism


    Would go nuclear if US withdraws from East Asia


    Japan must choose: Maintain cultural identity and accept economic decline, or transform through immigration to stay economically viable. Currently choosing the former while hoping automation saves them.

  • Today on Moment of Zen is a conversation I had with Samo Burja about the intricate historical, military, and cultural dimensions of the India-Pakistan conflict, and how these nuclear neighbors navigate their complex relationship.

    This podcast originally aired on the Village Global podcast.

    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:


    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers



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    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.



    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.



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    RECOMMENDED LINK/S:

    India: Live Players Analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GbsYh2kx7Y 



    --

    Follow on X:

    @samoburja@eriktorenberg@turpentinemedia



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    KEY HIGHLIGHTS


    Conflict stems from unresolved partition issues dividing predominantly Muslim and Hindu regions

    India's large Muslim population (200-300 million) creates internal stability concerns during potential conflicts

    Pakistan relies heavily on its military for national cohesion despite ethnic diversity

    Both nations possess modern military capabilities including nuclear weapons (170-200 warheads each)

    Nuclear conflict would likely only occur if Pakistan's government faced collapse or if India pursued regime change

    A nuclear war could cause millions of deaths and create 30-50 million refugees

    China maintains ties with Pakistan and has its own territorial disputes with India

    Likely future: continued sporadic fighting followed by ceasefires rather than full-scale war

    Pakistan's legitimacy relies on opposing India; India sees Pakistan as obstacle to global influence

    Unlike Israel-Palestine, this conflict could theoretically be resolved without existential questions

    India's optimal strategy: economically outgrow Pakistan while maintaining internal security

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  • Today on Moment of Zen, we're sharing a conversation  about defense innovation bureaucracy reform recorded at this week's Hill & Valley Forum in Washington D.C.



     In this session, Palantir, CTO Sha Sankar and Senator Mike Lee dissect America's defense innovation paralysis. They articulate how bureaucratic accretion stifles the necessary competition and "heretical" personalities historically driving breakthroughs. Their prescription: regulatory reset via the REINS Act, competing procurement programs, and empowering maverick leaders—essential counters to China's accelerating AI capabilities.



    If you're interested to hear all the talks from the forum, please subscribe to The Hill & Valley Forum Podcast:
    ⁠YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HillValleyForum⁩⁠
    Apple:⁠ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hill-valley-forum-podcast/id1692653857⁠
    Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/39s4MCyt1pOTQ8FjOAS4mi⁠

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    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at ⁠https://netsuite.com/zen⁠.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠.

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    Follow on X:
    @SenMikeLee (Senator Mike Lee)
    @friedberg (Shyam Sankar)
    @cgarrett_15 (Christian Garrett)
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

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    KEY HIGHLIGHTS:


    Defense innovation has stalled by prioritizing process over people and rigidly following bureaucratic procedures

    Competition between services and programs historically drove breakthroughs but has been lost

    America needs more "heretical" founder-type leaders within defense

    The REINS Act could restore constitutional order by requiring Congress to approve regulations

    Bureaucratic reform is essential to compete with China in the AI arms race

  • Today on Moment of Zen, we're sharing a conversation about rebuilding American manufacturing recorded at this week's Hill & Valley Forum in Washington D.C.

    Senator Todd Young is joined by Shaun Maguire, a partner at Sequoia, and David Friedberg the CEO of Ohalo to discuss the massive energy gap with China, how to reform education for industrial jobs, and where strategic innovation could help the US regain its competitive edge.

    If you're interested to hear all the talks from the forum, please subscribe to The Hill & Valley Forum Podcast:
    ⁠YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HillValleyForum⁩⁠
    Apple:⁠ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hill-valley-forum-podcast/id1692653857⁠
    Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/39s4MCyt1pOTQ8FjOAS4mi⁠

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    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at ⁠https://netsuite.com/zen⁠.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠.

    The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠https://adquick.com/⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

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    Follow on X:
    @SenToddYoung (Senator Todd Young)
    @friedberg (David Friedberg)
    @shaunmmaguire (Shaun Maguire)
    @cgarrett_15 (Christian Garrett)
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    TIMESTAMPS:
    (00:00) Preview
    (00:57) Introduction to the panel on rebuilding American manufacturing
    (01:25) Panel discussion begins on industrial strength in America
    (02:29) Shaun Maguire on creating national champions to rebuild supply chains
    (04:43) Senator Young on government's role in reshoring critical technologies
    (08:00) David Friedberg on energy and education as baseline problems
    (14:35) Sponsors: Netsuite | Shopify
    (17:05) Discussion on nuclear energy policy and regulatory reform
    (20:00) Role of automation in American manufacturing revival
    (22:48) Debate on friend-shoring versus onshoring manufacturing
    (27:48) Magic wand policy changes to bring back manufacturing
    (30:56) Sponsors: AdQuick | Squad
    (32:53) Outro

  • Today on Moment of Zen, we're sharing a conversation from the 2024 Hill and Valley Forum with the founders of Scale AI, Anthropic, and AI Fund on the urgent race between the U.S. and China in AI innovation.



    Moderated by Senator Cory Booker and featuring Alexandr Wang, Jack Clark, and Andrew Eng, the panel covers why American AI leadership is at risk, and how smarter policy and faster deployment are critical to maintaining a competitive edge. (Note: that this conversation took place before the DeepSeek breakthrough.)

    Keep an eye out for the 2025 Hill and Valley Forum on Wednesday, April 30 — and subscribe to the Hill & Valley podcast in the episode description to listen to every panel.



    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/39s4MCyt1pOTQ8FjOAS4mi

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hill-valley/id1692653857

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HillValleyForum



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    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.



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    X / TWITTER:

    @CoryBooker

    @AndrewYNg

    @alexandr_wang@jackclarkSF

    @eriktorenberg

    @turpentinemedia



    --



    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:



    US-China AI competition:


    The panelists strongly disagree with the Rand Corporation's assessment that China won't produce major AI advances

    Jack Clark emphasized that underestimating China's creativity would be "chronically stupid"

    Alex Wang noted Chinese companies have built some of the best open-source AI models in the world



    Regulation approach:


    The panelists generally advocated for minimal regulation that doesn't stifle innovation

    Andrew Ng compared AI to electricity (not a "dual-use" but "multi-use" technology) that shouldn't be over-regulated

    The panel suggested regulating specific applications rather than the foundational technology



    National security concerns:


    Alex Wang expressed that the US Department of Defense is using AI too slowly compared to adversaries

    The panelists identified bureaucracy as a major obstacle to the US military adopting AI quickly enough

    They described a "triple whammy" situation: rapidly advancing technology, increasing global conflicts, and risk-seeking leadership in rival nations



    Infrastructure needs:


    Jack Clark advocated for US investment in computing infrastructure to maintain leadership

    He mentioned permit reform as surprisingly crucial for AI advancement to build data centers

    The panel discussed the need for the US to compete with Middle Eastern countries' massive AI investments



    Future vision (2055):


    Jack Clark: Everyone will have customized education and tutoring

    Alex Wang: Scientific breakthroughs will make sci-fi futures a reality

    Andrew Ng: Intelligence will become cheap and accessible to everyone, not just the wealthy

  • Today's episode is a conversation I had with Samo Burja in 2019 about why civilizations collapse, how functional institutions are built, and what makes some societies flourish while others decay. We explore his Great Founder Theory, the myth of egalitarianism, and why exceptional outliers drive innovation more than democratic processes.

    This podcast originally aired on the Village Global podcast.

    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:

    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers



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    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith
    Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

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    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

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    --

    RECOMMENDED LINKS:
    Functional Institutions are the Exception
    https://www.samoburja.com/functional-institutions-are-the-exception/

    Intellectual Dark Matter
    https://samoburja.com/intellectual-dark-matter/

    --

    X / TWITTER:
    @SamoBurja
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:


    Societies are artificial constructs built on cornerstone institutions and knowledge that require intentional renewal

    Great Founder Theory: exceptional individuals like Steve Jobs create transformative changes that shape institutions

    Singapore as an example of successful governance through visionary leadership and long-term thinking

    Egalitarianism often functions as a control mechanism rather than a practical reality

    Technology inherently drives centralization despite temporary decentralization phases

    Future global order likely to be bipolar between US (innovation advantage) and China (different values)

    Successful institutions require adaptability to changing circumstances

  • In this episode of Moment of Zen, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat joins Erik Torenberg to discuss his new book "Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious," making the case that institutional religion is not just socially beneficial but intellectually defensible. They discuss the decline of New Atheism, the tension between traditional Christianity and Silicon Valley's techno-optimism within the "New Right" coalition, and whether AI consciousness points to something beyond materialism.

    --

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    --

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith
    Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

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    SPONSORS: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK | BREX | INCOGNI

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

    Ready to take your startup to the next level? Visit https://www.brex.com/grow to join the 30,000+ companies already streamlining their finances with Brex. Get high-yield banking, smart expense management, and scalable financial tools designed specifically for founders who want to focus on building, not bookkeeping.

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    --
    LINKS:
    Ross Douthat: https://www.nytimes.com/column/ross-douthat
    Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious: https://www.zondervan.com/p/believe/

    X / TWITTER:
    @DouthatNYT
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:


    Ross explains we're at a cultural inflection point where secularization has plateaued and there's evidence of religious revival.

    New atheism has declined as the world hasn't become more reasonable despite becoming less religious.

    Ross argues religion is intellectually defensible based on fine-tuning of the universe and the hard problem of consciousness.

    He contends that merely appreciating religion's social benefits isn't enough—genuine belief is necessary.

    The AI discussion explores whether consciousness might exist beyond materialist explanations.

    They examine tensions in the "New Right" between tech-optimists and religious traditionalists.

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja examine India's trajectory as the world's most populous nation, tackling India's surprising demographic decline, delayed industrialization due to bureaucratic inefficiency, and complex relations with China and Pakistan. They explore Modi's nationalist approach, India's digital potential, and how institutional barriers might limit India's rise in a multipolar world order.

    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:

    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers



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    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith
    Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

    --

    SPONSORS: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK | BREX | INCOGNI

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

    Ready to take your startup to the next level? Visit https://www.brex.com/grow to join the 30,000+ companies already streamlining their finances with Brex. Get high-yield banking, smart expense management, and scalable financial tools designed specifically for founders who want to focus on building, not bookkeeping.

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    --

    X / TWITTER:
    @SamoBurja
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:



    Demographics: India has surpassed China in population but faces rapid aging with fertility rates already below replacement level.


    Economic Development: Industrialization likely within 50 years, not 10; constrained by bureaucracy and regulation rather than demographics.


    Reform Needs: Requires anti-corruption efforts, reduced bureaucracy, special economic zones, and infrastructure development.


    Geopolitics: Complicated relationships with China (border disputes) and the West; Samo suggests India should be more self-interested in international relations.


    Modi's Impact: Promotes nationalism but hasn't effectively addressed bureaucratic problems.


    Digital Potential: Has talent for creating domestic tech giants with proper digital protectionism.


    Warning: Must avoid nuclear conflict with Pakistan.

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja dive deep into how Xi Jinping is shaping China's society today and its place in the world. They discuss Xi’s firm hold on power, his connections with different political groups, and how his decisions are affecting China's economy, military, and politics.

    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:

    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers





    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 
    🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

    --

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith
    Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

    --

    SPONSORS: BREX | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI
    Ready to take your startup to the next level? Visit https://www.brex.com/grow to join the 30,000+ companies already streamlining their finances with Brex. Get high-yield banking, smart expense management, and scalable financial tools designed specifically for founders who want to focus on building, not bookkeeping.

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment


    --

    X / TWITTER:
    @SamoBurja
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --
    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:


    Consolidated unprecedented power through anti-corruption campaigns

    Dismantled previous oligarchic system but created succession crisis

    Maintains Marxist ideology while managing slowing economic growth

    Limits wealth influence and civil society (Jack Ma case)

    Reframes economic challenges as equality/environmental successes

    Belt and Road Initiative less impactful than expected

    Scientific innovation hindered by political conformity

    Future paths: South Korea-style model or renewed socialist focus

    Demographic challenges may limit long-term economic/military power

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the complex relationship between Mexican drug cartels and the country's political system. Samo explains how cartels operate not as insurgencies but as business entities with deep connections to Mexican elites.

    The discussion covers the economic impact of drug trafficking, how legalization affects cartel operations, and comparisons with other countries' experiences, and explore potential solutions for Mexico's development and the geopolitical implications for U.S.-Mexico relations.

    Make sure to subscribe to Samo Burja's Bismarck Brief and the Live Players podcast to read analyses and briefs like this one:

    Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


    Live Players: https://link.chtbl.com/liveplayers





    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 
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    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD
    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    --

    RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS PODCAST:
    “Mexico’s Drug Cartels Are Not Competitors to the State” https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/p/mexicos-drug-cartels-are-not-competitors

    --

    X / TWITTER:
    @SamoBurja
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --
    HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:



    Cartels' Political Integration: Mexican cartels operate not as insurgencies against the state but as partners with government officials, creating a corrupt patronage system.


    Economic Impact: While drug trafficking represents a small percentage of Mexico's economy (0.3% of labor force), it provides significant corrupt revenue for political elites.


    Evolution of Cartel Operations: Following marijuana legalization in the U.S., cartels shifted from agriculture (growing marijuana/heroin) to chemistry (producing synthetic drugs like fentanyl).


    Border Security Concerns: The porous U.S.-Mexico border currently poses limited direct national security threats but could become problematic during escalating tensions with China or Russia.


    Development Challenges: Mexico's extractive elites and corrupt political economy hinder genuine industrialization and development.


    Potential Solutions: Successfully industrializing Mexico would require defeating extractive elites and eliminating corruption sources, potentially with U.S. or Chinese investment.


    Future Outlook: Latin American countries like Mexico might eventually become more peaceful as populations age, similar to countries like Portugal or Greece.

  • Erik Torenberg and economist Noah Smith dissect the Democratic Party's path forward. Smith advocates for fiscal responsibility over progressive rhetoric, refocusing democracy concerns away from voter ID laws toward election integrity, and embracing patriotic messaging instead of identity politics.

    Their exchange ventures into Elon Musk's influence on Republican effectiveness, the merits of Japanese bureaucratic models, and building a more competitive political landscape where both parties can harness entrepreneurial talent to implement practical governance solutions.



    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

    🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 



    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD
    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

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    --

    RELATED LINKS:
    How the Democrats can fight back against MAGA
    https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/how-the-democrats-can-fight-back

    Only fools think Elon is incompetent
    https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/only-fools-think-elon-is-incompetent




    X / TWITTER:
    @noahpinion
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --
    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE
    Three Recommendations for Democrats:


    Anti-Inflation Strategy: Emphasize fiscally responsible policies, cut deficits, and abandon price controls and MMT rhetoric


    Democracy Focus: Focus specifically on election integrity rather than voter ID laws or gerrymandering


    Patriotic Messaging: Abandon progressive "America was founded on racism" rhetoric and embrace traditional American values


    Tech Leadership Dynamics:

    Elon Musk has transformed Republican effectiveness through entrepreneurial approaches

    Democrats have alienated tech entrepreneurs through "tech bro" antagonism

    Democrats need their own tech-savvy leaders (suggestions included Sam Altman, Marc Benioff, Reid Hoffman)


    Biden's Economic Record:

    The Inflation Reduction Act was misnamed but had positive industrial policy effects

    Biden successfully fought inflation through Fed policy, deficit reduction, and energy production

    The administration's effective actions contradicted progressive rhetoric


    Project 2025 Critique:

    Good intentions but lacks nuanced understanding of government functions

    Relies too heavily on right-wing social media ecosystem for information

    Would benefit from consulting policy experts at conservative think tanks


    Social Media Transformation:

    Twitter/X has become narrower and more political under Musk

    A more fragmented social media landscape is positive for America

    Social platforms naturally polarize along political lines


    Alternative Economic Model:

    Need for a "third way" beyond neoliberalism

    Combine industrial policy, regulatory reforms, and Japanese-style bureaucratic approaches

    Emphasize efficient governance over ideological purity


    Cultural Observations:

    "Situationships" replacing traditional relationships among young people

    Free speech principles being abandoned by some Democrats

    Increasing education polarization in political alignment

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja examine the pervasive fascination with American political dynamics and their far-reaching impact worldwide, especially across Western democracies and European nations. They analyze how digital connectivity has accelerated the harmonization of political discourse and cultural values across borders, while exploring the emerging shifts in European political frameworks that increasingly reflect American ideological patterns and media narratives



    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD
    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.



    LINKS:
    Two buttons meme: https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.2365085899.3351/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg 

    The Clash of Civilizations: https://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/1451628978 

    Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/



    X / TWITTER:
    @SamoBurja
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS

    Global Political Influence

    US politics heavily impact Western countries, while Americans know little about other nations' political leaders

    Western countries form a connected political unit, using only other Western nations as models

    Internet's Unifying Effect

    Shared digital platforms have synchronized Western attention and culture more than ever before

    Younger Europeans increasingly consume political news in English online rather than in local languages

    Political & Cultural Transfer

    American political concepts (from trans rights to gun advocacy) spread to Europe

    Tension between traditional European media control and Silicon Valley's free speech platforms like X.com

    Potential European Transformation

    Free speech on social media could trigger significant right-wing political shifts in Europe

    Upcoming elections may demonstrate the impact of changing information access

    Questions about EU's "democratic deficit" and bureaucratic dominance

    Western Alignment

    Liberal and conservative international movements both center on US terms and platforms

    Military strength contributes significantly to America's cultural influence

    Western nations function as a de facto alliance despite having no formal "Western Union"

  • This week, Erik Torenberg is joined by Dr. Victor Davis Hanson, classicist, political commentator, and Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford. Together they conduct a thought experiment: it's 2030, how can we expect to understand the legacy of Donald Trump, the shifting political landscape in Germany and the rest of Europe, the outcome of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, China's ambitions regarding Taiwan, Israel's strategic challenges, and the future of the Democratic Party?


    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

    🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 


    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.



    RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
    Official site: https://victorhanson.com/
    The Victor Davis Hanson podcast: https://victorhanson.com/podcasts/
    Hoover Institution - featured publications and videos: https://www.hoover.org/profiles/victor-davis-hanson

    Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/ 


    X / TWITTER:
    @VDHanson
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

    Reflecting on Trump's Legacy

    Trump's Second Term

    JD Vance's Future

    Ukraine-Russia Conflict

    US-Europe Relations

    The Future of Europe

    China's Ambitions and Taiwan

    Israel's Strategic Dilemmas

    The Future of the Left

  • Erik Torenberg and Jon Askonas talk about the emerging political realignment in tech, specifically how Silicon Valley has shifted away from Democrats. They discuss the "tech right," its relationship with MAGA and "MAHA" (Make America Healthy Again) movements, potential tensions within this new coalition, and how Democrats might respond to their 2024 electoral defeat.

    Check out the interviews Erik mentions in this episode:

    Ezra Klein on Supply-side Progressivism, Polarization, and What Silicon Valley Misses About Politics: https://open.spotify.com/episode/36vTPPcpisMVXSgq9bnj1w


    The Future of Crypto with Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1EeTFGKxYuDojR5kvqpCyt




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    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

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    RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
    Jon's recently published pieces:

    Tech for Trump: https://www.city-journal.org/article/tech-for-trump


    The New Control Society: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-new-control-society



    Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/ 


    X / TWITTER:
    @JonAskonas
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Second Opinion
    🎙️ Join Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz and Luba Greenwood as they bring influential entrepreneurs, experts and investors into the ring for candid conversations at the frontlines of healthcare and digital health every week.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A8NwQE976s32zdBbZw6bv
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/second-opinion-with-christina-farr-ash-zenooz-md-luba/id1759267211
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SecondOpinionwithChristinaFarr

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

    Jon discusses Silicon Valley's shift away from Democrats, pointing to tech leaders like Zuckerberg, Nadella, and Bezos appearing at Trump's inauguration.

    The "tech right" is explained as one of three pillars of the new right coalition, alongside MAGA and "MAHA" (Make America Healthy Again).

    Jon identifies key factors driving tech's rightward shift: frustration with Democratic regulations affecting crypto, AI, and energy production; COVID governance failures; and cultural issues.

    The podcast examines potential tensions within this coalition, particularly around immigration and transhumanism, where tech interests may conflict with MAGA priorities.

    Jon analyzes how the new right coalition is united by opposition to "the Cathedral" (establishment institutions) rather than external threats.

    They discuss Project 2025 and "DOGE" (Department of Government Efficiency) as attempts to dismantle bureaucracy and bring transparency to government spending.

    The conversation explores how Democrats might respond, including moderating on culture war issues and adopting an "abundance agenda."

  • This Valentine's Day weekend, we're airing the debut episode of Modern Relationships featuring Varda space founder Delian Asparouhov and repeat M.O.Z. guest Nadia Asparouhova. Delian and Nadia talk about how they make their relationship work, dating in San Francisco, and why overcommunication might do more harm than good.


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    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | INCOGNI | SQUAD

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

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    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.



    RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
    Nadia's writing: https://nadia.xyz/ 
    Delian's site: https://delian.io/ 
    Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/ 


    X / TWITTER:
    @nayafia
    @zebulgar
    @eriktorenberg
    @turpentinemedia

    --

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

    --

    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

    Delian and Nadia met in San Francisco, where Delian quickly pushed for commitment while Nadia was initially intrigued but uncertain about his intense personality.

    They built their relationship on minimal but direct communication, believing that over-communication can create problems where none exist.

    Their careers grew alongside their relationship, with both valuing some shared context in tech while pursuing different interests.

    Having their first child changed their dynamic from independence to necessary schedule coordination, though they work to maintain their individual pursuits.

    Delian advocates for men having children younger to grow alongside their careers, while Nadia emphasizes women should have time to find themselves first.

    The couple balances ambitious careers with family life, seeing their domestic world as an expanding universe rather than a limitation.

    They approach conflicts with a "short memory" philosophy, choosing not to overanalyze small issues and accepting that some days will have tension.

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja examine how advancing desalination technology could reshape geopolitics and transform landscapes. They discuss how affordable desalination ($0.3 cents per liter) makes large-scale terraforming feasible, potentially enabling countries like Saudi Arabia or Australia to create vast green spaces and support larger populations. The technology's implications extend beyond water security to national development and climate resilience. The essay on desalination originally appeared in The Bismarck Brief - subscribe here: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/


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    SPONSOR: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.


    RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
    The Untapped Potential of Desalination: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/p/the-untapped-potential-of-desalination

    1957, 1978, 2005 Chicken Sizes diagram: https://compote.slate.com/images/4e407854-6360-4172-a85e-d7b8c64fd365.jpg?width=1200

    Growth, efficiency, and yield of commercial broilers from 1957, 1978, and 2005: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119385505

    Live Players: Can China Power Its Rise?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOei7kZjuZU

    Live Players: The Possibility of Human Extinction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQEMpxLnGA&t=42s

    Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/

    --

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
    


    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
    Technology Status

    Highly efficient: 2.3 kWh per cubic meter

    Low production cost: 0.3 cents/liter

    Main costs: infrastructure, not energy

    Current Usage

    Gulf states lead adoption (UAE: 42% of water from desalination)

    Viable for moderately developed nations

    Transformative Potential

    $32B could match Nile River's annual flow

    Enables desert terraforming

    Could transform Saudi Arabia, Australia, US regions

    National Opportunities

    Saudi Arabia: $300B for national parks

    Australia: Support larger population

    Regional development: Turkey, Spain

    Strategic Impact

    Eliminates water scarcity concerns

    Enhances climate resilience

    Enables new settlement patterns

    Potential tool for political stability

  • Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja analyze Curtis Yarvin's arguments about government inefficiency, comparing corporate and state governance structures. The conversation covers how bureaucracies decay over time, China's approach to governance, and Yarvin's influence in shifting Silicon Valley libertarians toward more right-wing positions. They also examine his evolution from a cancelled figure to a mainstream intellectual voice.


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    SPONSOR: NOTION | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD
    Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.



    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
    


    HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

    Curtis Yarvin's influence on tech-right thinking challenged conventional political discourse through digital platforms.

    Corporate efficiency doesn't follow natural selection principles - institutional success requires active leadership rather than market forces alone.

    Government accountability and innovation are stifled by bureaucratic gridlock, with catastrophic potential costs to society (exemplified by China's one-child policy).

    Mainstream political ideologies (left & right) are more aligned than they appear, suggesting democracy isn't the final stage of political evolution.

    Engaging with controversial thinkers like Yarvin reveals important critiques of current systems, even when disagreeing with their proposed solutions.

    Societal progress requires harnessing collective energy and maintaining efficient governance structures.

  • Today on Moment of Zen, we're bringing you the third episode of "This Won't Last", the newest show from Turpentine.

    Keith Rabois, Logan Bartlett, Kevin Ryan, and Zach Weinberg dissect the 2025 political landscape in a spirited discussion of Trump's evolved messaging and surprising tech industry backing. The conversation weaves through immigration policy, corporate political neutrality, and market dynamics - from Silicon Valley's rightward shift to urban crime challenges and insurance markets and explores how America's tech-policy nexus is reshaping in real-time.


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    🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 


    SPONSOR: NOTION | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD
    Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.



    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
    



    HIGHLIGHTS:
    2024 Election Results

    Analysis of Trump's victory and polling accuracy

    Impact of inflation on voter behavior

    Discussion of electoral trends and campaign dynamics

    Tech Industry Political Evolution

    Shift in tech leadership support for Trump administration

    Energy and regulatory policy influences

    Corporate political donations trends

    Workplace Politics

    Corporate stance on political issues

    Employee activism and company responses

    Evolution of DEI initiatives

    New York Public Safety

    Crime statistics analysis

    Impact of bail reform

    Mental health policy challenges

    Law enforcement strategies

    California Natural Disasters

    Insurance market responses

    Property rebuilding regulations

    Market pricing dynamics in crisis situations

    Healthcare Regulation

    State licensing restrictions

    Market inefficiencies

    Professional interest group influence

  • As China surges past the combined manufacturing might of Western democracies, economists Scott Sumner and Noah Smith square off on America's industrial future. While agreeing on economic fundamentals, they clash over the gravity of China's rise - Sumner advocating measured engagement while Smith warns of an unprecedented shift in global power requiring bold policy action.


    📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 
    🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

    SPONSOR: ORACLE | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK

    ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/

    Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

    Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen

    Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit https://adquick.com/ to start reaching your customers in the real world.


    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
    —

    HIGHLIGHTS:
    Core Agreement Areas:

    Both are skeptical of partisan justifications for industrial policy (Democrats' "good jobs" focus and Republicans' "America First" stance)

    Both agree liberalization, not industrial policy, drove China's rapid growth


    Climate Change & Green Tech:

    Sumner argues Biden's green subsidies were undermined by trade barriers against Chinese EVs/solar

    Smith counters that China's industrial policy in green tech has actually helped global climate goals by scaling production and reducing costs


    Central Point of Disagreement - China Threat:

    Sumner sees Russia as the bigger immediate threat and warns against needlessly antagonizing China

    Smith argues we've entered a new era where China's manufacturing dominance (especially in military-relevant technologies like drones and batteries) fundamentally threatens democratic nations


    Biden vs Trump Policy Results:

    Both criticize Trump's tariffs as ineffective

    Smith points to success of Biden's CHIPS Act and IRA in boosting domestic manufacturing of critical technologies

    Sumner suggests many industrial policies are based on misconceptions about macroeconomics


    Manufacturing Strategy:

    Sumner advocates addressing trade deficits through fiscal policy and savings rates

    Smith emphasizes the need to maintain manufacturing parity in specific dual-use technologies

    They differ on whether total manufacturing capacity or specific industrial capabilities matter more for national security

  • Editor of Arena magazine Maxwell Meyer and pseudonymous writer Indian Bronson join Erik Torenberg for part 3 of the immigration series. They discuss the evolving dynamics between Trump's tech and MAGA supporters, cutting through online drama to examine how both sides might find common ground on immigration, talent, and America's future.

    This is part 3 to Bronson's earlier Moment of Zen episodes, Debating Immigration Policy and Bronson vs Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump


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    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

    —

    RELATED LINKS:

    Debating Immigration Policy: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4xR2aTcekJ60GFgTXMKGy4?si=DjML853wSLOUTmWAyqgv9g


    Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump: https://open.spotify.com/episode/79JNQHaxTKEfhkWL1pT1NH?si=NqEewJYuTlqoYDqpfxChhw


    Indian Bronson Substack: https://indianbronson.substack.com/


    Max Meyer's Arena Magazine: https://arenamag.com/




    X / TWITTER:
    @mualphaxi (Max Meyer)
    @Indian_Bronson (Indian Bronson)
    @eriktorenberg (Erik)
    @turpentinemedia
    @MOZ_Podcast



    HIGHLIGHTS:
    I. Tech/Nationalist Right Conflict & Alliance

    Online clash over immigration policy.

    Debate on whether the tech/nationalist alliance is genuine or just expedient.

    Core agreement on stopping illegal immigration, but disagreements on legal routes.

    II. Trump & Immigration

    Trump's long-held views on attracting high-skilled talent.

    Discussion of H1B visa program abuse and potential reforms.

    Trump's stance as pro-legal immigration, but anti-illegal immigration.

    III. Key Themes

    Online vs. reality: online debates are often more extreme.

    Trump & Musk: Similarities in their hands-on approach and detail-oriented style.

    Power: Elon Musk’s unique influence in the Trump orbit.

    Critique of "Hick Lib" politicians like Tim Walz, and his inauthenticity.

    IV. Predictions

    Democrats likely to do well in 2026 House elections.

    Focus on deportations under Trump.

    Continued alliance between Trump and Musk.

    V. Nuances of Immigration Debate

    Discussion on the usefulness of Country Caps.

    Unintended consequences of affirmative action.

    Welfare differences between US and Europe.

    The importance of high-skilled immigration to economic growth, with caveats.

    VI. Closing Thoughts

    Real conversation between powerful people took place.

    Emphasis on balancing economic benefits with the idea of America as a nation with shared history.

    Emphasis on trusting figures like Trump, J.D. Vance and those around them.