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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“My strength is my curiosity, and being pretty good at suffering”
Episode 3#07 sits down with mountaineer, therapist and motivational speaker Maria Granberg, whose achievements so far include: climbing Manaslu (8,163m), and becoming only the second Swedish woman to summit Everest (8,848m) via its North Face.
However, it’s the work that Maria undertakes off the mountain that truly defines her character on it. As a behavioural scientist, she has an abiding interest in how each of us faces suffering, learns to confront our fears, and masters that ever-elusive goal of being “present” in any given moment. These are themes that Maria routinely encounters on her expeditions, which include such challenges as: severe and consistent sleep deprivation, migraines, cramping muscles and a failing digestive system, as well as cognitive impairment from oxygen deprivation - a list of disturbing hardships which she handily condenses into the phrase: “the pain cave”.
Yet, to hear Maria speak about her experiences above 7,000m of altitude (much of which is spent deep inside “the cave”) is to encounter a charming dissonance: she often smiles as she describes them. In this interview, she shares her journey to become the expedition climber that she is today, which includes enduring the stress and competition of teenage athletics, living amongst alcohol abuse, overcoming deep depression, and being rescued from it all by the discovery of thin air and high altitude on Tanzania’s Kilimanjaro (5,892m).
Since that point her love of high and remote places has taken her back to Africa to lead climbs, on a “month-long sufferfest in Kyrgyzstan” (in which she lost 15kg but gained some of the most enduring memories of her life), to pursue qualification and to help heal others as a professional psychotherapist, and to discovery humility, “sheer presence” and the art of “blissful dissatisfaction” in all the places she’s discovered along the way.
> www.mariagranberg.se
> https://www.instagram.com/granbergadventureathlete/Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 29/04/24]
00:00 - Introduction
04:50 - Welcome, moving to the mountains, outdoor life in the town of Åre (“the Swedish Tahoe”)
06:53 - Growing up a swimmer and “outdoor kid” in a 250-person mining village (“I didn’t know a single person who did mountaineering, or had even climbed a mountain”), using athletics to “grow and learn” as a teenager and young person. Getting derailed by severe depression. Moving to Tanzania and discovering climbing on Kilimanjaro
10:13 - “Something clicked, and when I came back home I got obsessed with high altitude”
11:06 - Being a sensitive child: “I have a very close relationship with my fears. I get adrenaline very, very easily”. Tackling fears through repetitive exposure: “I couldn’t accept the fact of a feeling holding me back from something that I wanted to do”
14:38 - The pressure of “striving to become the next version of yourself”, to prove yourself all the time. Growing up amongst alcohol abuse, and developing eating issues. Using sports and performance to “compensate for not having a deeper sense of self, and value of self”
19:53 - “I knew what pushing myself really hard felt like, because I had done that most of my life. But entering high altitude… reluctantly you have to shed all ego and enter a space in yourself which is more about surrendering. It was new to me, and I liked not having the control”
22:08 - “It was one of the most humbling experiences I’ve ever had, and a coming home to sheer presence”
23:03 - “It was excruciating” (with a smile)
23:55 - “My strength is my curiosity, and being pretty good at suffering. I like the suffering. I like when I get to that point because I know the gifts of suffering. So I discovered in high altitude that ‘this is my jam’”
26:33 - “A reckoning with the ambivalence of life”
28:28 - Studying to become a behavioural scientist, gaining climbing experience, pursuing expeditions, guiding on Kilimanjaro, 6,000m+ climbing in Kyrgyzstan, learning from the most experienced people, a “six year plan”
32:28 - “I didn’t just gain a life partner, I gained a climbing partner as well… if you see a guy with a big red beard and a loud laugh that is a good cue that it’s him”
34:58 - Pursuing psychotherapy qualifications alongside mountain ambitions
37:13 - “Having a spotlight on me is something that I’ve never truly been comfortable with”, contrasted with sitting in a therapy room and it being entirely about the other person
42:18 - The anxiety of building a career and then stepping away from it in case it all vanishes
44:03 - The best part of a day as a therapist, and the best part of a day filming in the high mountains: living in the moment and feeling sincere connections with others
49:18 - “Chasing another moment” and learning to seek “blissful dissatisfaction”, getting into meditation and yoga when I was about 19,20… and it was the worst experience of my life”, taking 10 years to learn to come to an activity without any specific goals
56:48 - Explaining the “pain cave” of acclimatising to high altitude mountaineering: “in the beginning it felt like a fight, and now it feels like a painful dance”. Migraines, sleepless days and nights, which begin again above 7,000m
59:38 - “I’d eaten an apple and half a power bar in 72hrs. I went up in the middle of the night heading towards the summit and every step I took felt like a max deadlift. I felt like I weighted two tonnes, and my stomach was in cramps. I knew it was not dangerous. It was hard, but not dangerous. I stayed in it for around 5hrs”, watching out for times when you might be cognitively impaired
62:38 - “There are different sufferfests depending on where you are in the expedition”
65:00 - Greatest mountain memory: avalanches, glacier cracks and losing 15kgs on a month-long sufferfest in Kyrgyzstan… but also digging “snow sofas” in total isolation in pristine mountain landscapes
67:38 - All the time, money, freedom… where would you go and what would you do? “I would pack my paraglider, go into the mountains and just learn everything I can from everyone, everywhere”
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“Once you slow down you see it all”
Interview recorded 24/01/24
On the latest episode of Mountain Air, Dan catches up with Patrick Davies, a writer, long-distance walker and charity fundraiser whose latest book “Where Skylarks Sing” recounts a 2250km walk across the UK mainland in the summer of 2021. “Skylarks”, which touches on Patrick’s experiences caring for his father as he succumbed to Alzheimer’s disease, issues of identity and belonging, and the healing power of walking, explores the “hope of finding escape and answers”.
As you might expect, Patrick’s epic walks aren’t limited to 73 days spent walking across Britain, and over the last three years he’s not only traversed 1280km across the Pyrenees (carrying on afterwards to reach Barcelona on foot), but also made a 1120km trek from Strasbourg to the Mediterranean coastline too. What’s perhaps less expected, and makes these achievements all the more unusual, is that Patrick hadn’t done any serious walking until 2021.
Prior to the pandemic, you see, the focus of Patrick’s life was as a civil servant in the foreign office - through which he served from 2013-2018 as the UK’s Deputy Ambassador to the United States of America. His experiences working with the Obama and later Trump administrations led him to write his first book, “The Great American Delusion”. A speaker and commentator on American politics, there can be few people who have had more of a front-row seat over a uniquely turbulent decade for the world’s largest democracy.
Hear about all of this and why, when it comes to long-distance walks of your own, you should “do it, without question” in Mountain Air Series 3, Episode 6.
> patrickjdavies.com
> linktr.ee/patrickjdavies
> alzheimersresearchuk.org
00:00 - Introduction.
02:40 - Welcome. Introducing “Where Skylarks Sing”, recounting 1400-mile walk from Lizard Point in Cornwall to Dunnet Head in Scotland. Reasons for eschewing LEJOG. Personal motivations for the walk and the book.
08:40 - “... about three or four weeks later I found myself in Lizard Point with a very heavy backpack”. Discussing experiences of caring for a close relative with Alzheimer’s disease, fundraising in response.
12:25 - Choosing a more mountainous line: “it seemed a little unfair to miss out the whole of Wales if you’re trying to walk across the country… and it got me into the Lake District as well”. Paring back 2-3kg after three days of walking.
16:40 - “Everything doesn’t have to be perfect at the beginning”.
18:00 - The mentality of a long walk: “It’s a slow pace, it’s a slow rhythm, and it’s repeated… to me it feels a bit like meditation. You just calm down, and slow down”. A revelation to notice things, to see things, where previously the mind would be too busy, “once you slow down you see it all”.
22:40 - Highlights, including: the South West Coast Path, the quiet, open spaces of Mid Wales, the Lake District and (of course) Scotland.
31:30 - Advice to those considering similar walks: “Do it, without question. Once you start it’s addictive”.
34:30 - Previous career as the UK’s Deputy Ambassador to the United States, from 2013 to 2018. Writing “The Great American Delusion”. Working amongst American politics, trying to explain Brexit, witnessing the polarisation of views across the country.
42:00 - “I hanker back to a time when politics was really boring… civil service is about delivering things for the general public”.
46:15 - Recalling two great treks following walking the length of Britain: Biarritz to Barcelona via the Pyrenees (partly following the GR10, partly the haute route between it and the GR11), and from “Strasbourg to the Sea” (involving the GR5).
53:20 - Witnessing the result of serious drought in the Alps.
56:00 - Greatest Mountain Memory: Climbing Morocco’s Mt Toubkal in the High Atlas mountains, without much opportunity for acclimatisation (with predictable results) “my greatest mountain memory is that I don’t really remember much about being on the top, other than swaying a lot”.
56:15 - All the time, money, freedom… where would you go and what would you do? Latin America, to the Andes, and particular Chile’s Torres del Paine National Park.
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“It’s about being prepared for what nature throws at us”
Interview recorded 27/09/23
Since 2009, Mark Diggins has been the coordinator of the Scottish Avalanche Information Service (SAIS). This valuable role means overseeing hazard forecasts for Lochaber, Glen Coe, Craigh Meagaidh, Torridon and the two halves of the Cairngorms… as well as being part of the team that inspects “the most unstable” slopes and snowpacks on a daily basis. In part thanks to this excellent service, Mark is keen to highlight that being avalanched in Scotland is actually “a very rare event”, and that one of the guiding principles of the SAIS is to inform and encourage people to make sound judgements about their own winter adventures, and to be more likely enjoy the icy peaks as a consequence. In his words: “the mountains are a really important place where we can learn and develop as people”.
If you’d like to learn more about how avalanche hazard is measured and judged - and how the formation of a snowpack can lead it to becoming unstable - you’ll find plenty of fascinating insight in this episode. What you’ll also find is a comprehensive picture of how a person finds themselves in the head of such an exciting and essential public service.
Mark’s life has seen him inspired by early youth hosteling trips (where he’d load himself up with heavy tins of peas and beans and sleep on piles of bracken), to serving an apprenticeship with his local climbing club, to being mentored in “how not to be blown over” by climbing great John Cunningham. Having dedicated himself to qualifying as an IFMGA Mountain Guide, he spent 16 years living and working in the European alps, eventually taking up other projects working alongside film and TV crews on remote and challenging projects across the globe. His adventures have taken him: across “poorly mapped” Greenland; “caving” down Low’s Gully on Malaysia’s Mt Kinabulu (and climbing up vines when reaching the jungle terrain that followed); to volcanic acid pools in Ethiopia’s Danakil Depression; and to the echoing sounds of the Bedouin call to prayer in tall desert canyons.
> sais.gov.uk
> markdiggins.com
> bmg.org.uk/guide/?mark-diggins
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - Welcome. What is the Scottish Avalanche Information Service? Taking over as Co-ordinator in 2009, now “we have forecasters going out into the field, every single day, in six mountain areas”
06:40 - In praise of the SAIS winter conditions blogs
08:40 - “Getting avalanched is actually a very rare event”, why experience and confidence (and “ignoring signs”) might lead to risk
13:00 - “Go into those environments with an open mind, and being ready to change and be flexible”
15:10 - Reading avalanche charts, and understanding the complexity of avalanche hazard, heading to places that are “the most unstable” to find out the truth
18:10 - Technical chat: Explaining how the snow pack develops, and why it fails
23:50 - “Risk” vs “hazard”
26:00 - “What we don’t want is for people to go out in the mountains in the winter and be scared out of their wits”, the need to inform without frightening, and appreciating the value of spaces where hazards are real (“the mountains are a really important place where we can learn and develop as people”)
32:07 - A personal history in the outdoors: life as a forecaster and IFMGA Mountain Guide; youth hostelling trips; carrying tins of food and sleeping on bracken above the Lake District’s cold, hard ground; being supported and encouraged by older members of a local climbing club
40:28 - “John Cunningham was able to stand and not be blown over, and I couldn’t quite work out how he did that! I’ve since learned, and it is a bit of a trick…”, being inspired to become a Mountain Guide
44:00 - “I would recommend that if people are going into the outdoors as an instructor or mountain guide, that you have something else as well. It’s really important”. Working for the film and TV industry and guiding crews, guiding and expedition travel across the world, the attraction of judging hazards in the wild
46:58 - “Greenland was especially good because the maps aren’t very good, the magnetic rocks aren’t great for using compasses… it sounds terrible but it really went back to my roots of travelling in the mountain and making judgements in a wild place where if anything went wrong, you’re on your own”
50:20 - “If there was a rainfall, all the rain would pour into this gorge and the water would rise 50ft in half an hour. So you had to be careful of where you camped overnight”
53:30 - “Being prepared for what nature throws at us”
54:25 - Greatest Mountain Memory: summitting the Matterhorn with a client for whom it was a lifetime ambition
56:15 - All the time, money, freedom… where would you go and what would you do? Travel to central Asia (Mongolia, Tajikistan) for the mountains, the people and the culture
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“It sounds a strange thing to say about a 400 million year-old mountain like An Teallach… but it’s fragile”
Interview recorded 06/07/23
Dougie Baird has spent his working life building and repairing mountain paths. That makes him the the perfect person to help protect one of Scotland’s greatest mountains.
That mountain is the ever-popular sandstone group of peaks we call An Teallach - a mountain area eroding quicker than you might expect not just due to “rainfall, footfall, scars, and cycles of erosion” but also under the twin pressures of climate change and funding cuts. This is why the environmental charity Outdoor Access Trust for Scotland, of which Dougie is CEO, has teamed up with Mountaineering Scotland and other partners to raise a much needed £300,000 path repair fund for An Teallach, as well as awareness of the peril facing so many peaks across Scotland and beyond.
In this hour-long interview, Dougie discusses more about and why there’s a need for this three-year campaign, but also goes into great depth and detail about how paths help protect mountains, how anyone with the time and inclination can help volunteer to build and repair them, and what the joys and challenges are of a life dedicated to just this cause.
He’ll also explain what 10 consecutive 10hr days working in the high mountains look and feel like: how “you’ll get most of your best work done in the morning”, how powerful a thing it can be to close your eyes “for just five minutes”, why the worst thing about it is the chilblains, how working in conservation can feel like a form of “national service”, how rare and precious it is to see the mountains as the sun goes down and all the walkers have left, and how fulfilling it is to work on a project that’s “going to outlive us”.
Hear all of this and more in Mountain Air Series 3, Episode 4.
> https://savemountainpaths.scot/
> https://www.outdooraccesstrustforscotland.org.uk/
00:00 - Introduction
02:22 - Welcome, all about “It’s Up to Us” (https://savemountainpaths.scot/), “there’s not really any organisation or government body that’s there to care about this problem”, complex funding models and the loss of European money
09:30 - “... it’s physically very hard, the conditions are often unpleasant to say the least…”
10:34 - Why is it important to repair and maintain the paths on An Teallach? Rainfall, footfall, scars, and cycles of erosion… “some of it looks like it’s been shelled”
13:50 - “It sounds a strange thing to say about a 400 million year-old mountain like An Teallach… but it’s fragile”
18:50 - Is it possible to repair every path on every hill? And how to volunteer
21:55 - A day in the life of a path repair team
30:10 - “There’s nothing worse than having a bag of helicopter stones even fifty metres away from where you want them. It’s a nightmare”
33:13 - “The few days where it’s nice to just lie back and enjoy the scenery and soak up the sun are so rare that you’ll take a bit of time off for them, you really will. More often than not it’ll be quite cold. Possibly raining. Possibly snowing. Possibly hailing”
37:45 - “Day eight was a killer. You felt like you were working three times as hard, but your productivity definitely dipped. Your effort didn’t, but your productivity did”
38:25 - Women in path work
40:20 - Getting started in path repair, being an “unemployed youth in 1980s central Scotland”, working with redundant miners, discovering conservation “I’d just seen land as a thing I grew up in that you used to be able to work in and couldn’t anymore”46:59 - “My gear was… so bad”
49:00 - “I’ll never forget watching the sun go down at 11 at night in late May, with the eagles circling… the mountain you see after all the visitors and hillwalkers have left… I thought it was absolutely fascinating”
51:10 - Finding funding for conservation “I never knew if I had a job next year until New Year’s Eve”
56:35 - Taking part in work “that’s going to outlive us”
57:30 - Greatest Mountain Memory: climbing Kebnekaise in Sweden in a “hostile, extreme physical environment” with 24hr sun, “I’ll never forget having the entire mountain to ourselves as we walked out at two, three in the morning in that glaciated, arctic landscape. That’ll stay with me forever”
59:44 - All the time, money, freedom… where would you go and what would you do? Walking the Pyrenees from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, “there’s something about it… it’s got culture and history that I find really compelling”
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“Underpinning it all was this ridiculously amazing team behind me… two years of planning was spent gathering an army of friends and strangers.”
Episode 3#03 meets Jamie Aarons, who on 26 June 2023 became the fastest person ever to have completed a self-propelled round of the Munros. In doing so, she covered more than 2,576km of ground by foot, bike and kayak and recorded more than 135,000m of ascent. The entire round of Scotland’s 282 highest peaks took her just 31 days, 10 hours and 27 minutes.
… but all of this you may already know from reading about it in the outdoor press and even the national media.
What you won’t know, however, is the story direct from Jamie herself. And here she is to do so - during a lunch break from her day job in social care, no less - for the latest episode of Mountain Air. In this hour-long interview, Jamie explains how she feels after such a mammoth undertaking, her motivations for attempting it in the first place, and just what it took - both from her and from her extensive support team - to claim such an astonishing record.
So, if you’ve ever wondered about…
how powerful the “micronap” can be
whether it’s possible to fit a challenge like this into your annual leave
just how inspirational a force an army of friends and well-wishers can be
which Microsoft Office product is key to tackling a Munro speed challenge
what it is that draws outdoor people to the Highlands from across the globe
… or if “hating running with a bit of a passion” precludes you from winning an ultra race…
… you’ve come to the right place.
> Read all about Jamie’s record-breaking round here: jamiesmunrochallenge.run
> … and here: ukhillwalking.com/news/2023/06/jamie_aarons_sets_new_munro_round_speed_record-73379
> Follow Jamie on Instagram, Facebook and Youtube…
instagram.com/jamieaaruns
facebook.com/people/Jamie-Aarons/100090560726414
youtube.com/channel/UCpjvRJ9lrOlPbTGSjgIUTdQ
> Donate to World Bicycle Relief here: justgiving.com/page/jamiesmunrochallenge
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 05/07/23]
00:00 - Introduction.
03:14 - Welcome, fastest ever self-propelled Munro record, “it’s all still a bit surreal”, feeling “quite lethargic, a little less narcoleptic”, falling asleep during meals, an overview of the challenge.
07:40 - Sleeping “considerably less” than four hour a night, the skill of “micronaps” for periods as little as 60 seconds.
11:24 - A 2,576km route… and other stats, “the terrain isn’t conveyed in those stats - not every kilometre is equal… the most efficient route was to connect many hills in ways that are not commonly done (or never done)”. An “incredibly special” challenge.
14:04 - What does it take to complete such a challenge? The “glimmer of maybe”. A lifetime of building endurance. The enjoyment of the planning, spreadsheets, friends and logistics, “coming to grips with new aspects of Excel”.
17:20 - “Underpinning it all was knowing that I had this ridiculously amazing team behind me… that two years of planning was gathering an army of friends and strangers”.
18:12 - Gathering supporters. A hiking challenge, not a running one, a “continuously putting one foot in front of the other challenge”. An overview of the support involved.
22:20 - “Lots of chat… it was about sharing time on the hills with friends old and new… it’s a lot easier to take a 60 second nap when there’s someone hovering over you, waiting to wake you up”.
23:20 - “Even before we started we’d made what I knew were lifelong friendships through the planning. Even if we hadn’t been successful, there’s success in finding these kindred spirits of cyclists and hillwalkers”.
26:40 - The sport of “dot watching Jamie”... “a bit overwhelming, but incredibly motivating”.
28:28 - Growing up as a competitive swimmer, life in California, University in Chicago, living in New Zealand’s South Island, moving to Scotland in 2005. Starting a career in social work.
31:00 - Praising the “right to roam”, being an “outdoors person
35:30 - “I never ran growing up, I hated it with a bit of a passion”, building up the tenacity and endurance to win ultra races. Running the West Highland Way in a day because it wasn’t clear if it were possible or not.
38:43 - Comparing ultra-running and social work.
42:00 - Greatest Mountain Memory: on the challenge, in the Fannichs with friends, inspiring a daughter’s 13-year-old daughter to “storm ahead”, “it so reflected in that moment what I’d hoped to create in the challenge… it brought tears to my eyes then”.
45:50 - All the time, money, freedom… where would you go and what would you do? Getting into bike-packing, using the bike to enable travel abroad. Raising money for World Bicycle Relief and seeing their work.
47:25 - How can someone break this record? “I don’t doubt the record will be broken by someone that can move over ground more efficiently… but what we’ve greatest otherwise is here to stay”.
48:55 - Future plans: being a “dedicated support person for the short to medium-term… I’m literally not allowed to say no”.
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“There’s no greater feeling than finding people alive in the mountains.”
Episode 3#02 meets a legendary figure in Search and Rescue circles. A member of RAF Mountain Rescue for 37 years, David “Heavy” Whalley has attended more than a thousand call-outs, and saved the lives of so many people in the hills that he’s routinely been approached by rescuees during his lecture tours in the years afterwards. He’s managed rescue teams across the UK’s mountain ranges, ice climbed in Canada, helped orchestrate a successful expedition (and incidentally saved multiple members of less fortunate teams) on Everest’s north ridge, and been awarded numerous honours from an MBE to a Distinguished Service Award.
But there’s been a darker side to his career too. Amongst the impressive statistics of his time on the hill there are nearly 70 aircraft crashes which he’s attended in person. He was senior team leader during the recovery efforts following the Lockerbie bombing. He’s been part of teams attending tragic mountain-related fatalities throughout the hills across multiple decades. He’s no stranger to post-traumatic stress, a term which only came into common use once his career was underway.
And yet, hear Heavy speak about this lifetime of service in the mountains, and he’s as effusive now as he was as a “wee, skinny laddie” who joined the RAF in 1971 (aged just 17 years old). He’s close to completing his ninth circuit of the Munros, and though he may be retired from RAF Mountain Rescue, nothing gives him greater pleasure than seeing the young generations of rescuers find the same joy in the job that he did for all those years.
Hear all of this, and enjoy an inspirational hour of a life lived to its fullest, in Series 3, Episode 2.
> Find out more about Heavy here: http://www.heavywhalley.com/
> Read Heavy’s blog here: https://heavywhalley.wordpress.com/
> See Heavy’s recent award for “excellent in mountain culture” here: https://mountainfestival.co.uk/culture-awards/david-heavy-whalley-2023
> Follow him on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/heavywhalley
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 23/03/23]
00:00 - Introduction
02:50 - Welcome, Heavy: “I was told to go away and put some weight on”, 5’4” but still able to handle himself.
05:35 - A lifetime in RAF search and rescue as an air crash expert. Losing aircraft crews training in the mountains. Handling nearly 70 aircraft crashes.
09:54 - “You can have the best team in the world, but if you’re searching in the wrong place you’re wasting your time”.
10:20 - “We’re working in conditions when other people don’t go out”... and avalanche warnings only started in the late 1980s. The benefits and challenges of technology.
14:20 - Working on the Lockerbie bombing, no knowledge of post-traumatic stress disorder and at the time, “It took me 25 years… and I’ve never got over it”.
18:37 - Mountain rescue “is an amazing system, that we should all be proud of. But it’s a dangerous game”.
19:03 - Plenty of individual awards, but “unfortunately I don’t believe in these things. In the military you don’t have an option. They should be team awards”. Losing friends.
21:15 - Why did you turn to this career? The son of a Scottish Minister, but “I was a wild child… and it was join the air force or get into trouble”.
22:44 - “There’s no greater feeling than finding people alive in the mountains. It’s unique and it’s wonderful. The joy of it is phenomenal”.
24:40 - Celebrating the rise of women in the outdoors.
26:10 - “Sandals, shorts and t-shirts on the top of Goat Fell”.
28:27 - Joining the RAF at 17: “I was a wee, skinny laddie, but I was very fit”.
31:17 - “Thrown in at the deep end” with mountain rescues, three climbing deaths on Ben Nevis.
35:20 - “People would always ask me how I’ve stayed in the military so long, because I would always question everything… which a lot of people didn’t like”.
36:15 - Mountain kit. Working with military issue, and slowly improving it, “we were in plastic bivvies freezing all night… the Americans couldn’t believe what we did… nothing fitted a wee boy, my trousers were huge!”.
40:37 - Using the Munros for training: “the best way to get the guys fit is to blast them around these hills”
41:50 - Being one of the first groups to go ice-climbing in Canada, “it was phenomenal, you’ve never seen ice like this… ice screws that worked!”.
44:07 - The 2001 Everest North Ridge expedition… with a garden shed. Put two on the summit and were involved in three rescues…. “You can get yaks to 21,000ft, that’s the height of McKinley”, “on any big mountain the objective dangers are huge, a serac can fall”.
49:10 - Greatest Mountain Memory: advanced base camp on Everest, filling 50 bags of rubbish with the Sherpa team, and paying for it themselves. Plus, back in Fort William, seeing the younger generation find as much joy in rescue.
54:25 - “Mountaineering is very selfish, so all we can do is make it as safe as we can… you can’t explain it to people that don’t do it”. Recovering from trauma and the loss of friends in the hills. Plans for writing a book, and meeting rescued walkers and climbers at lectures.
58:05 - All the time, money, freedom… where do you go and what do you do? “I’d like to go and trek through the Himalays with my granddaughters, to show them the mountains I’ve been on. That would be wonderful. It would give me a big buzz. We’re very lucky with what we’ve got, we’ve just got to fight to keep it”. -
> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“I get excited about something and I say yes, and then I do it. And I enjoy doing it, so I keep doing it.”
Episode 3#01 of Mountain Air stars Steph McKenna, winner of the fabulously titled 2023 Fort William Festival “Scottish Youth Award for Excellence in Mountain Culture”.
Steph was caught unawares by the award (mainly because she had not idea she’d been nominated), but look into why she won and it’s hardly a surprise at all. Though only 22-years old, she has lent emotional support to those that need it volunteering and mentoring for her local charity Lochaber Hope, overseen positive changes for young people and helped them grow a sense of “camaraderie, place and purpose” in the Lochaber Youth Theatre, worked as a seasonal ranger for the John Muir Trust on the Nevis range, co-founded the Fort William Foxes (a mountain biking group focused on encouraging and empowering women riders), and even found time to gain a first-class degree in Psychology for which she wrote an award-winning final year dissertation entitled “An Interpretation of wild swimming in the Scottish Highlands. The relationship between flow, the therapeutic landscape and wellbeing”.
How does one achieve so many things by so young an age? Where does the energy to tirelessly help others come from? Which Lord of the Rings character did she pretend to be as a child? Can you ever run out of adventures in the Lochaber area? How does Utah compare to the West Highlands? Are you ever too young to be covered in mud or submerged in an icy river? What ties together carbon sequestration and the future of the highland water vole?
The answers to all these questions and more feature in this first episode of the third series of Mountain Air.
> Read more about Steph McKenna here: https://mountainfestival.co.uk/culture-awards/stephanie-mckenna-ya-2023/
[episode recorded on 10/03/23]
> Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
00:00 - Introduction
02:50 - Welcome, winning the Fort William Festival “Scottish Youth Award for Excellent in Mountain Culture” award… but not having a Fort William accent. Also, Utah.
08:38 - Volunteering and mentoring for Lochaber Hope, “teaching people that they have it in them to heal themselves”. Building a “garden of hope”. Using the landscape and green space.
14:37 - Lochaber Youth Theatre “a real sense of camaraderie, and place and purpose… and the positive changes in the kids involved… that made me want to study psychology”.
20:40 - Motivations for volunteer work: “I just get excited about something and I say yes, and then I do it. And I enjoy doing it, so I keep doing it … I just enjoy the vibrancy of meeting different people and opening up the dialogue about wellness”.
21:43 - It was Benjamin Franklin!
22:20 - Seasonal Ranger(ing) for the John Muir Trust on the Ben Nevis range. Spending days “absolutely covered in mud”. Sequestration. Water voles. Raptors.
28:38 - Mountain Biking, working with bikes and riding for pleasure - Fort William Foxes, “opening up a space for those just getting into biking, maybe being a little nervous, and just wanting to ride with some other ladies”.
33:30 - “It’s a little bit easier to be silly and embarrassed about some of the girly stuff… or simply beings scared… women’s spaces in the outdoors open up the conversation for women to be a bit goofier, or less formal, or just a bit gross!”.
35:00 - Pretending to be Frodo Baggins, with the dog.
36:20 - Discovering outdoor sports. Wild swimming (“I was always swimming in the river as a kid”), falling through ice.
39:00 - Hillwalking and mountaineering, an epic sunrise around Steall Falls. Ice climbing. Scotland as a “huge open space with limitless potential”.
43:10 - Greatest mountain memory: a childhood visit to the Steall Falls, remembered later in life.
45:35 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? Research into the effects of mountains on mental wellbeing.
47:25 - Gardening and putting the bumper back on the car.
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“I love being able to share what I experience… taking folk to places they wouldn't feel confident to get to by themselves.”
Episode 2#10 is thrilled to meet Kirsty Pallas, of Oban in the West Highlands. Kirsty is an outdoor instructor of more than a decade’s experience who the 16,000 members of Mountaineering Scotland may also recognise as one of the group’s Mountain Safety Advisors.
Kirsty’s progress in her outdoor career has been as swift as it has been successful: inspired by school-age work experience at her local outdoor centre, Kirsty leapt straight into outdoor instruction immediately upon turning 18. Since that point, she’s gained her Summer Mountain Leader, Winter Mountain Leader and Mountaineering and Climbing Instructor Awards, and has even found time to be a serving member of Oban Mountain Rescue team for the past nine years. And all long before her 30th birthday.
When not finding time to climb on Buachaille Etive Mor and other classic Scottish peaks, Kirsty puts much of her spare energies into promoting inclusivity in the hills. A co-founder of advocacy group Our Shared Outdoors, and of mixed-race heritage herself, she has a driving passion for Britain’s mountains and believes everybody should feel equally free and welcome to enjoy their beauty and challenges.
> Discover more about Mountaineering Scotland: www.mountaineering.scot
> Learn about Our Shared Outdoors: www.oursharedoutdoors.org
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 07/10/22]
00:00 - Introduction
02:11 - Welcome, all about Mountaineering Scotland (“the Scottish equivalent of the British Mountaineering Council”) and life as a Mountain Safety Advisor
08:11 - The approach of winter, spreading the message of mountain safety (“it’s really hard to change the batteries in your head torch if you don’t have a light”)
10:39 - A personal history in the mountains: inspired by work experience at an outdoor centre, registering for Mountain Training awards immediately on turning 18
14:56 - A guide to outdoor assessments: Summer Mountain Leader, Winter Mountain Leader, Mountaineering and Climbing Instructor (“they give you as many chances as they can… and if you’re deferred on any element it’s because of a trend rather than a one-off”)
21:51 - Nine years of experience in Oban Mountain Rescue, covering Ben Cruachan to the Black Mount, Ben Lui, and the Isle of Mull (“have a bag packed, ready to go”), use of drones
30:01 - “I love being able to share what I get to experience with so many different people”
33:51 - Long-term goals and fulfilling ambitions in the outdoors (Winter Mountaineering and Climbing Instructor by age 30), “what I enjoy is the variety”
37:21 - “For me, inclusivity is that everyone feels welcomed into the hills”, the importance of feeling represented, the absence of generational experience
41:31 - Our Shared Outdoors, “a group of people that want to see things become more diverse within the outdoors”, film events that focus on under-represented groups
44:41 - Ways to make others feel welcome in the outdoors, supportive conversations and raised awareness
48:16 - Greatest mountain memory… climbing “The Chasm” on Buachaille Etive Mor, “what decisions did I take in my life that have led me to this moment, and why did I make those decisions?”
51:31 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? A climbing road trip across Canada and the US: Yosemite, Squamish and more.
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
“You’ve got to acknowledge that you’re just a fragment in time.”
Episode 2#9 settles down with Doug Bartholomew, a man who has the dream job of managing one of Scotland’s great landscapes. Seek him on a weekday, Saturday or Sunday and you’ll find him and his team of fellow NatureScot employees on Beinn Eighe and Loch Maree Islands National Nature Reserve in Wester Ross. This 48 square kilometres of magnificent highland wilderness requires hard work to keep it running sustainably, and constant attention is required to replenish the native Caledonia pinewoods that still grow in these soils. As a consequence, Doug finds himself stalking deer, nurturing and planting up to 20,000 pine seedlings, and enduring vicious swarms of midges throughout his working year. Told you it was a dream job.
Doug reveals how he came to be in this “dead man’s shoes” kind of role, why volunteers on the reserve are absolutely essential to its continued success, and how much joy can be found running and climbing in this exceptional landscape when you wake and work between its peaks.
> Want to volunteer at Beinn Eighe and Loch Maree Islands NNR yourself? Walk this way.
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 30/08/22]
00:00 - Introduction
01:56 - Welcome, living on Beinn Eighe Nature Reserve (“it’s a short commute to work”) amongst the “largest remnant” of ancient Caledonian pinewood
06:06 - A run-down of a Reserve Manager’s job, stalking deer and growing trees from seed
09:06 - A small team for a 5,000 hectare area
11:24 - Growing 20,000 trees per year, repairing deforestation by humans and herbivores
16:06 - “As a manager, you want to see things happen in your time… but especially with woodland restoration like this you’ve got to acknowledge that you’re just a fragment in time when you think of the hundreds of years it’ll need to restore these landscapes.”
17:11 - More about deer management, “aiming for a about 1-2 deer per kilometre squared”, the absence of apex predators (“we don’t have an intact natural process”)
20:06 - A “‘dead man’s shoes” kind of job
20:36 - Doug’s journey to becoming a Reserve Manager, the challenges of conservation, feeling a connection to the environment
29:36 - Getting out in the evenings and getting up high - “if you can run, you can pack a lot into a short time… to get up on the Beinn Eighe ridge while the light’s flooding in from the west”, the scrambly mountain running in the area
32:46 - Multi-pitch trad climbing on Beinn Eighe, and the appeals of winter when ice climbing is in. Being one step ahead of UKClimbing’s forums
36:26 - Welcoming the general public, the first waymarked route in Britain which rises to 500m with views of Loch Maree
38:16 - The hardest days on the job, being uplifted by the “vibrance and enthusiasm” of volunteers on the Reserve, enjoying their varied backgrounds
41:40 - Midge chat: “the weather’s not always hot and sunny… and my house must be one of the midge-iest spots in Scotland. They never lose their bite”... don’t end up with a “lather of dead midges all over you”... “grimace”
45:36 - Greatest mountain memory… a winter traverse of the Cuillin in perfect weather and perfect snow conditions; a winter climb of the Fiddler’s Nose (“I’m still buzzing”)
48:16 - All the time, money, freedom… what would you do? Climbing in Alaska and the Himalayas, but “I love my job and I’m pretty content, so I wouldn’t ask for much more”
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
Episode 2#08 sits down with the charming and disarming J.R. Harris. Since 1966, J. Robert Harris has undertaken more than 50 multi-week trips into the world’s wild places: “all unsupported and most of them alone”. He’s driven to where the US road systems end (or did in the late 60s), 120 miles north of Fairbanks, Alaska, and he’s since been above the Arctic Circle 15 times (“there’s a lot I want to see up there”, he says). He’s tracked down caribou migrations in the Yukon, lived amongst Inuit people, and walked some of the finest hiking trails in the Dolomites, on New Zealand’s South Island, in Chilean Patagonia and in the North American Rockies. And, after a lifetime of making dramatic journeys an annual habit, in 2017 he published his first memoir: Way Out There: Adventures of a Wilderness Trekker.
Perhaps most impressively of all though is this: he’s just a regular guy from New York. Well, perhaps not so regular. He grew up poor in one of the city’s many low-income housing projects with a lot of family love and support, but no money to make his ambitions happen… and the outdoors wasn’t even a part of his thinking until the Boy Scouts introduced him to landscapes without pigeons, concrete and cockroaches. He got a job, earned himself a scholarship and put himself through university at Queen’s College. After graduation, he founded his own marketing company and settled into a life of work, family, and meticulous planning of audacious adventures all across the planet.
Since 1993 he’s been a member of the prestigious Explorer’s Club, and in recent years he’s dedicated himself to giving motivational talks to schools, clubs and social organisations. J.R.’s message is simple: if he can do it, then you can do it.
> Find out all about J.R. at https://www.jrinthewilderness.com/
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 09/06/22]
00:00 - Introduction
02:35 - Welcome, a native New Yorker with a 50 or 60 Grateful Dead t-shirts
05:45 - Growing up in the projects, “life was tough, but you get a certain knowledge that doesn’t come through books or school”
07:40 - A “kicking and screaming” sign up for the Boy Scouts, “it was not compatible with growing up in the city”.
09:00 - “The first time I ever saw grass I tried to smoke it”
12:20 - Requisitioning food and heading out into the wild to be alone with nature: “I would spend most of my time in the summer off by myself”
14:00 - “There were very few black kids there. It was probably a combination of parents who couldn’t afford it, and a crazy notion that Boy Scouts wasn’t really the kind of thing that a black kid from the street in New York city would want to be in. That was the mindset back then”.
15:05 - “I was a different guy when I came back… and I got a lot of respect somehow”.
16:45 - “My folks told me when I was young that they would give me everything they could that I would need to be successful. But they also told me that everything they gave me would not be enough, and that if I wanted to fulfil my dreams - whatever they may be - I was pretty much going to have to make that happen”, working, being awarded a scholarship and attending Queen’s College to study Psychology.
20:40 - First travels: “a piece of crap Volkswagen Beetle” and a 9,000 mile road trip as far north as roads go, 120 miles north of Fairbanks, Alaska (“there would be no vehicles between me and the North Pole”).
23:50 - “I want to know what’s behind those mountains. I want to know what rivers, valleys and wildlife… and what it’s like to be back there.”
26:00 - “... sitting on the back of my car holding two coins: a quarter and a dime. And that 35 cents was the last money I had.”
30:20 - A career in market research, starting a business “Don’t convince yourself that it’s impossible. If you want to do it, just figure out how to do it and go do it”. JRH Marketing Services is now “the oldest African-American-owned marketing consulting firm in the United States”.
33:40 - Mixing multi-week global trips with an adult life (“it’s funny how they add up to 50 so quickly”)
36:30 - What makes it special to travel alone? (“I’ve never been lonely out there, and I’ve never come back early from a trip”)
40:20 - “I’m a curious guy with a valid credit card”
44:00 - “The smartest thing I ever did in all these trips was to keep a journal… now I’m pushing 80 I’m still doing trips, I’m still writing journals”
46:18 - Contrasting the different environments around the world.
49:00 - “I plan very intricately, and I take the time to send away for topo maps”, researching long-distance trips in the pre-internet age.
51:10 - Gear chat, testing outdoor kit for Backpacker magazine (“nobody can tell me my pack is too heavy, because nobody’s carrying it but me”)
54:50 - “I’m using the same Thermarest mattress that I was using in 1980”
55:45 - Hand-rolled cigars and a pint of Cognac (“it’s going to last you 18 days”)
59:30 - Is there anyone that’s inspired you? “To be totally honest: no. And the reason is: there was nobody. I always wanted to be an explorer, but there was never any explorer I could look up to. I knew somebody like Matthew Henson who went to the North Pole in 1909 was a black man. But they never taught us about that in school. I heard about (Robert) Peary, but I never knew there was a guy with him that looked like me… I had to find my own motivation, I had to find my own inspiration”
61:30 - Motivational talks to New York schools: “If I can do it, you can do it”
66:45 - Greatest mountain memory… 10 March 1992, losing the trail, a backpack, a lot of body heat, and nearly everything in the mountains of south-west Tasmania (“the hardest trip I ever did, by the way”).
71:15 - All the time, money, freedom… what would you do? Five places: the top of Everest, the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the North Pole, the South Pole, the moon.
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
Episode 2#07 gets to know none other than multi-talented photojournalist David Lintern. Based in Kingussie in the Cairngorms National Park, David is an outdoor writer and photographer of high reputation. You’ve likely seen his images and read his words across many different magazines and websites that focus on Britain’s hills, mountains and rivers. So, who better to spend an hour with discussing the challenges and rewards of this environment we all love so much?
Having just released his latest book, “Thunder Road: Voices from the Cape Wrath Trail”, David’s keen to describe the landscapes and people discovered along the most famous hiking route in Scotland’s epic north-west, as well as to discuss what he’s trying to achieve in documenting these unique subjects.
He also shares the fascinating story of how a person ends up living the life of an environmental journalist in the Scottish Highlands - a dream job, perhaps, but one which brings plenty of insecurity with its limitless freedoms. From London-based cinema projectionist, to “scruffy musician”, to founder of a children’s charity, David’s journey has taken him from a deeply urban life to one spent amongst the wildest of places. There’s even time to discuss a fateful two-month hike of the Pyrenees and a formative winter mountaineering trip across the Ben Alder range with some deeply eerie details…
Visit www.davidlintern.com to find out more about David’s work, and make sure to catch up with him on Instagram too: @davidjlintern
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 26/05/22]
00:00 - Introduction
03:23 - Welcome, “a photographer and writer focusing on human-powered travel, landscape and the environment”, discussing the book “Thunder Road: Voices from the Cape Wrath Trail”
06:53 - Most definitely not “striding forth under self-imposed adversity”, more details of the Cape Wrath experience
13:28 - War games off the Scottish coast
17:33 - “Vanishing Point” photography project, the struggles of being a freelancer during the COVID pandemic, “lots of freedom, but lots of insecurity”
20:13 - Enjoying “the wrestle” of writing, details of an outdoor media career, “esoteric ramblings”
27:38 - “We were all feeling pretty experimental in COVID, weren’t we?”
28:33 - Coming to the outdoors relatively late, discovering the mountains as an adult. A former life as a London-based cinema projectionist, youth music worker, sound engineer, and university lecturer… seeing “literally thousands of films at the National Film Theatre”
33:23 - Becoming a community music leader, setting up the Soundmix charity (http://www.soundmix.org.uk/who-we-are/), working with the refugee council and “unaccompanied minors”, “what can a scruffy musician do?”
35:23 - An “early mid-life crisis” expressed by walking across the Pyrenees in a two-month charity trip, starting to work with the John Muir Trust
38:10 - A passion for cinema, music and soundtracks, performing background music for TV programmes, an interest in analogue machinery
40:13 - Creating electronic music and dub via Projector Records: “to call it a record label would suggest that it actually functioned… it was basically a group of friends that lived in a house in the mid-90s”
42:51 - Some heartfelt words about a love of the outdoors and life in Kingussie, “when you live here you realise that they’re called the grey hills and the red hills for a reason… it’s a special place”
49:39 - “The bit that’s important to me is allowing other people to speak… really I’m the least interesting bit of the equation”.
53:03 - Enriching your life through experiences in the “heavens”. How can we bring those transformative experiences back down to our everyday lives.
54:23 - Greatest mountain memory… a long winter mountaineering weekend in the Ben Alder range, the Lancet Edge, eerie sounds, unsettling footsteps, a golden eagle.
59:23 - All the time, money, freedom… what would you do? A simple answer… and a more complicated one: fixing the gap between recreational hill people, and those that live and work on the land, conservation and shooting estates (“we have big environmental decisions to make as a society… and we’re not able to have those conversations”)
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> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
Episode 2#06 welcomes a man that may be the most prolific hillwalker in history. That’s because Rob Woodall has spent the past 40 years systematically completing every list of peaks, tops, prominences and trig points in existence. Putting to one side the popular lifetime achievements of the Munros, the Corbetts, the Wainwrights and such; he’s summited all 1,556 “Marilyns” (UK peaks with a relative prominence of 150m), touched at least 6,190 trig points, and even stood atop all 2,271 “TuMPs” on the Welsh mainland (a deeply esoteric list of raised ground with Thirty and Upward Metre Prominences).
Since recently semi-retiring his ambitions have even turned to the list of global “Ultra” peaks, which are those with a topographic prominence of 1,500m. There are 119 in Europe (not including the Matterhorn or the Eiger whose high cols preclude them), none in Britain (poor Ben Nevis), and so far at least 1,515 have been identified across the world. Nobody has come close to completing this list, and Rob doesn’t believe they are “realistically completable by anybody”. But he’s still quietly ticking them off.
His achievements haven’t gone unnoticed, and it’s likely that you will have read about him in the outdoor press… but so many questions remain:
How has he achieved such incredible hillbagging feats whilst being based in the lowland city of Peterborough?
Has his lifelong career in civil engineering given him the map-savvy skills to achieve his goals?
How does he endure so much driving?
What kit does he wear when he’s out in the hills?
Is there any moment of his spare time that isn’t spent hunting down summits?
How do you access a sea stack?
Can microspikes keep you from slipping on guano?
Is he aware of quite how bonkers the whole thing seems to those outside the hobby?
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 18/11/21]
Note: as there were a number of months in-between recording and publication, the ever-thorough Rob would like to point out that…
The newly created North Northants unitary authority's top is a new hill! See Mill Hill
There's not even a Hump in East Anglia (there are none east of Northampton's Arbury Hill)
He is now 62
Elbrus, for obvious reasons, is no longer in his current climbing plans
The Africa trip mentioned near the end of the interview was not feasible due to COVID restrictions
Time stamps…
00:00 - Introduction
02:02 - Welcome, “mind-bending achievements”
03:57 - Defining the hill-bagging lists (Rob’s done them all)
09:22 - “Anything which sticks out of the ground in Britain… you’ve stood on top of?”
10:17 - *2021
14:17 - Starting a hill-bagging career in his early 20s, opening up further ticklists (birds, botany)
18:02 - A friendly rivalry with Ken Whyte (who sadly passed away after this interview was recorded, see his obituary here: https://www.peakbagger.com/climber/climber.aspx?cid=7239), the camaraderie of chartering boats with fellow baggers to reach isolated island peaks, cake, whiskey and parties on the tops
20:12 - “It’s not the sort of number that you can get to accidentally”
22:32 - The practicalities of bagging: sleeping in the car, keeping up fitness, mountain running the “Big Three” rounds
27:37 - Bagging the 6,200+ Trig Pillars (“they keep disappearing, a few get re-found which is always exciting”)
32:02 - … nuclear sub base… critical assets that are “rather well defended… 20 years ago the fences were very different”
34:02 - Coping with mammoth amounts of driving: “I’m a big fan of Radio 4”
36:32 - Favourite parts of the UK hills and “spectacularly wet days”
40:22 - Sea stacks, gannet colonies, the October “sweet spot” and microspikes
47:32 - “I’m pretty obsessive, yeah…”
48:32 - Praising the Buffalo Teclite and various phone apps
51:42 - The global “ultras” (1,500m prominence)... which aren’t “realistically completable by anybody”
56:17 - Using local guides
60:32 - “Taking on something when you don’t know if it’s possible or not… you get a real buzz when it’s complete.”
62:02 - Greatest mountain memory… Mount Odin in British Columbia “you can’t really see it from anywhere… it’s grizzly bear country”
64:32 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? Disappear into the Andes for a number of months
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Episode 2#05 cosies up with the irrepressible Sarah Jane Douglas. In 2019 Sarah published her first book: Just Another Mountain, an autobiographical story of loss and grief, but ultimately joy, love and empowerment found in the wild beauty of the Scottish Highlands. It was a huge success. So much so that it saw her lauded across the national press and invited onto ITV’s flagship breakfast show for a friendly “baptism of fire” (Sarah’s words) with Lorraine Kelly.
You may also recognise her from across the outdoor press (including this episode’s sponsor UKHillwalking.com), where she contributes everything from gear reviews to in-depth walking features.
What you may not know is that she’s also: a long-term member of the security team at Inverness Airport, a prolific artist and painter, a mother of two, a cancer survivor, a fanatical Corbett wildcamper, Munroist #5764 (“compleated” in 2015), a habitual destroyer of electronics, a hardened instigator (and resolver) of hillwalking disasters, a shameless follower of many soaps, very much a native Highlander, and one of the most passionate, dedicated and candid mountaineers you’re likely to hear on this podcast or any other. She also has an axe.
> Read more about Sarah here: www.jennybrownassociates.com/sarah-jane-douglas.htm
> … and here: smashingcancerintheface.wordpress.com/about
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 09/12/21]
> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - Welcome, airport shifts and winter escapes to the hills, why Inverness is “the absolute best place in the whole of Scotland to live”
06:50 - It’s not about the bagging
07:50 - “Being up on the mountains soothed me, and made my troubles seem to melt temporarily”
09:07 - Writing “Just Another Mountain”: “Obviously I’m going to have to burn them before I die, because there’s no way I could have anyone reading some of the content that’s in there, let me tell you…”
11:58 - A “baptism of fire” with Lorraine Kelly.
13:00 - What do people find in the book? “They see a lot of themselves in the words that I’ve written… there is always hope as well, no matter how dark and grim life can become, there is a way forward through those troubles and difficulties”
14:40 - A family history, loss, tragedy and childhood climbing (“thears a bairn on tha’ ruf!”)
22:00 - Artwork: “I was always scribbling on my granny’s walls. She would go mental”. A broken ankle and an opportunity to paint again.
29:10 - Celebrating disaster with “gonzo” outdoor writing, lost tents, drenched electronics, milk-clogged Jetboils, crisps for breakfast, weeing all over yourself… “I can’t have nice things, they just get trashed”
42:51 - “The important thing to me is that I am well and that I am restored by the activities I love to do, and I do love the mountains”
45:10 - Being alone in the outdoors, “hill hysteria”, people being “subjected to my singing”, the nightmare of the hillwalking earworm.
50:00 - Foreign trips to the hills, “I always have this yearning to be on the highest spot that’s possible for my own ability”. A meaningful trip to Nepal.
58:00 - Greatest Mountain Memory: searching for a memorial cairn in remote Nepal
60:30 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? “I would just go away to the mountains and never come back”, food drops from helicopter pilots, building bothies, “spend the rest of my days just wandering from mountain to mountain… I’d be very happy doing that”
62:45 - An Eastenders-based revelation
65:30 - Household chores… with an axe(“CHOP CHOP CHOP”)
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Episode 2#04 is thrilled to sit down with Colorado-based Renan Ozturk to discuss his latest film “The Sanctity of Space”. A climbing film at heart, it not only celebrates the stunning landscapes of Denali National Park, the Alaska Range and the film-makers’ carving of a new skyline route across the “Moose’s Tooth” peak (3,150m)… <deep breath> but also pays heartfelt tribute to Brad Washburn, the legendary aerial photographer whose life’s work provided inspiration for the entire project.
And there’s time for more than that too. Renan - a sponsored expedition climber, landscape artist, and previous “National Geographic Adventurer of the Year” - has had a busy career so far. You may recognise him from his previous film projects “Meru” and “Sherpa” (both 2015), or perhaps from his back catalogue of arresting mountaineering photography. Possibly you’re one of his million-strong Instagram followers, or you met “dumpster diving” at Trader Joe’s in southern California, or he offered you a lift in the “technobago” whilst you were both enjoying your dirtbag climber phase. But don’t worry if not, this interview will provide the perfect introduction either way.
> Read more about Renan here: renanozturk.com, and find him on the ‘gram here: @renan_ozturk
> Find screenings and streaming links for “The Sanctity of Space” here: thesanctityofspace.com
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 10/03/22]
> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
00:00 - Introduction
03:05 - Welcome
04:14 - “The Sanctity of Space” - Brad Washburn, the sharing of exploration, finding an antique plane, “feeling the magic” in Washburn’s camera
11:20 - “I think what he created still stands up against the highest resolution digital cameras”
11:59 - Gyro-stabilised gimbals
15:33 - The Moose’s Tooth: “… it’s going to be hard to top that experience of drawing a line with our bodies across that beautiful skyline.”
18:40 - “The factors are always stacked against you in the mountains”
19:11 - Top backcountry tip: “...just as long as you always save half your dinner, you’re never going to run out of food”
20:30 - The allure of Denali National Park: “there aren’t many places in the world that are as alive as the Alaska Range”
26:13 - The challenges of film-making: needing “the same optimism you have when you’re doing a climb”
26:58 - “It’s impossible to answer the question of why you climb, and why you suffer, and why you put yourself in these crazy situations… as artists we always want to package it in different ways where the art itself answers the question, these images give people heart-palpitations or goosebumps in a way that you can never do in a conversation at the bar.”
28:48 - Growing up in Rhode Island, discovering mountaineering at College, “I wasn’t one of these kids that grew up with Yvon Chouinard as an uncle”
32:30 - The “technobago”, a duffel bag, a backpack, an “endless summer” of climbing for seven or eight years
34:00 - Painting, not “struggling with technology”, dragging a 10ft long canvas around the landscape of Nepal
39:15 - “Dumpster diving” in Trader Joe’s in southern California, career thoughts
44:07 - Greatest mountain memory: the end of the Mooth’s Tooth traverse “moving for some 30-odd hours… hallucinating without drugs… the summertime in Alaska where it doesn’t really get dark”46:00 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? “I’d still be doing what I’m doing now. It’s such a random storm of luck and opportunity that’s led me here”
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A very quick update about the next episode in the series…
> visit thesanctityofspace.com
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Episode 2#03 hears all about a big decision. Exhausted by commuting, frustrated by inflexible work and desperate to spend more time pursuing her love of the outdoors, Keri Wallace stepped away from a 10-year career in science communication and moved with her husband and two young daughters to Glen Coe. She’s never regretted it for a second.
The result of this sizeable life-shift was the founding, in 2018, of “Girls on Hills: the UK's only guided trail, fell and skyrunning running company, designed specifically for women”. Over the past four years, Girls on Hills has expanded from an idea shared between friends, to a multi-faceted guiding company where women can pursue a love of mountain running aided by some of Britain’s most dedicated female runners. It’s not just a business to Keri, but has become a positive force for empowering women in the outdoors and giving female runners the space to connect with nature, with each other, and to excel.
But that’s not to say that Keri herself isn’t a pretty inspiring figure (far from it). Keri’s outdoor CV includes a 10-day solo traverse of the “Big Three” hillwalking rounds of the Bob Graham, Paddy Buckley and Charlie Ramsay (she was recovering from a running injury at the time); posting a competitive time on the mammoth Gore-Tex Transalpine Run; and - perhaps most impressively of all - managing to take her two young daughters wild camping atop Glen Coe…
> Read more about Keri Wallace and Girls on Hills here: girlsonhills.com, and find them on Instagram here: @girlsonhillsuk
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
> www.mountainairpodcast.uk
[episode recorded on 17/11/21]
00:00 - Introduction
02:15 -“Kids’ shenanigans”
05:10 - All about Girls on Hills, transitioning from science communicator to business owner: “a bit of a leap, and a massive financial step backwards… but suddenly life got much simpler”
07:50 - “We saw that lots of women wanted to run”, opening up to each other in the outdoors
10:00 - “The things that you learn in the mountains, in terms of self-sufficiency and confidence, can be applied in your wider life”, running as an accessible, “low skill” sport, the appeal of a “women-specific” running experience
14:15 - Banter, the strengthening of mixed groups, bothies and camping, concerns about physical safety
22:40 - Leading runners in the Glen Coe environment, “… it just looks impenetrable!”
29:35 - A quick look at Keri’s running CV… “I think I’ll do a mountain marathon… how hard can it be?” … it turns out “really, really hard”.
37:02 - A solo, 10-day hillwalking trio of the Bob Graham Round, the Paddy Buckley Round and the Charlie Ramsay Round, raising money for the John Muir Trust and Water Aid (“it made me scared to do these things by myself, and that made me think that I ought to go and do it”)
40:46 - FACT CHECK: Keri is (of course) absolutely correct and the Bob Graham Round comprises the summits of 42 fells.
44:00 - Reaching personal limits on the Gore-Tex Transalpine Run … “when you find it you always think it’s not your limit, and there’s some reason it’s not your limit”
48:55 - Parenting tips: taking kids wild camping (build up to it, be prepared to carry them out, take sweets and give them one on each zig-zag, “we try really hard not to bribe them constantly”)
53:03 - Greatest Mountain Memory: a formative tragedy on “my first ever mountain, which was Ben Nevis”
55:25 - All the time, money, freedom… where do you go? “To apply myself to something, whether it be a race or a challenge… to throw myself into something and give it my best efforts”
58:08 - A final thought on safety in the outdoors. What can the world - and men in particular - do to help others feel safe?
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Episode 2#02 is in awe of Zac Poulton. Zac is one of the Lake District’s three “Fell Top Assessors”, which means that today, yesterday, tomorrow and every day of the winter season, there’s a 33 per cent chance that he’s walking to the summit of one of England’s highest peaks. The resulting pictures and written reports provide an invaluable resource for hillwalkers, climbers and anyone else venturing out onto the wintery fells. Winning this kind of role means you’re about as dependable on the hill as human beings get.
But that’s only a fraction of the story. Because the more you ask Zac about his career in the outdoors, the more amazing the tales become. He spent a month in Greenland helping to film base jumping barnacle geese chicks. He’s dangled down Alum Pot testing 5G broadcast equipment, he’s lived in vans in Scotland, ditches in the Alps, safety managed Kilian Jornet in Glen Coe, solo climbed Ama Dablam, guided tens of people to the summit of Everest, explored parts of Antarctica, lectured University students, and hallucinated on Wainwright’s Coast-to-Coast.
… and all of this whilst overcoming a fear of heights. If you’ve ever considered a career in the outdoors and are wondering where such a move could take you, Zac’s story could be exactly what you need to hear.
> Read more about Zac Poulton here: www.mtnsafety.co.uk, and follow him on Twitter here: @MTN_Safety
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank the excellent UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
www.mountainairpodcast.uk
[episode recorded on 25/11/21]
00:00 – Introduction
02:58 – Welcome, fell top assessing, safety work, high altitude guiding
04:52 – Recent activities: film safety, 5G testing and live broadcasts, Alum Pot
10:47 – Base jumping barnacle geese chicks in Greenland
16:20 – “… they get focused on what’s going on through the camera and forget about the polar bear that’s stalking them from behind…”
18:26 – The last 10 years: commercial guiding on big peaks, Scotland, life in a van, lecturing, training film crews
22:46 – “Keep saying yes, and keep doing a good job, and the doors will keep opening”
24:24 - Alpine memories: “living in a ditch in a field until the money ran out then hitching home again”, inspired by a being a Scout and reading mountaineering literature “even before I could read”
27:38 – Overcoming a fear of heights, and why it’s key to being an effective guide
36:50 – The pressure of expedition guiding, and learning to decompress afterwards, “I like to think that if they’re complaining about the food, then things are going well”
40:00 – Safety for mountain running events, Glen Coe Skyline with Kilian Jornet, personal running experience
45:40 – “I maybe slept for four hours or so… the hallucinations were quite good”
47:12 – Guiding on Everest, “It’s hurting, but I’ve got a job to do, and these people are probably hurting more. I need to support them”, 45-minutes alone on the summit “not a soul in sight, and looking at the view”
56:20 – Life as a Fell Top Assessor… and “informal, 20-minute crampon sessions”
62:00 – “Parenthood is another of those amazing experiences, so so ‘yes’ to that as well!”
63:00 – Greatest Mountain Memory: solo climb of Ama Dablam “so much of my work is with clients, which I love, but just to be out there by myself, able to move at my own pace and enjoy that environment…”
67:20 – All the time, money, freedom, where do you go? The Antarctic coastline, or explorations of Baffin Island and the Arctic territories
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Hello! And welcome to series two of Mountain Air! It’s an absolute pleasure for this episode to be supported by UKHillwalking.com, and an equal pleasure to be bringing you 87-minutes of conversation with Sibusiso Vilane - an inspirational man with an inspirational story to tell.
In 2003, Sibusiso he became the first black African to summit Mt Everest, a phenomenal achievement given his impoverished roots and lack of mountaineering background, and one that earned him the attention and praise of Nelson Mandela and the wider world. But his story runs far deeper than that. His childhood was one of extreme poverty in apartheid Johannesburg, and later in Swaziland (now Eswatini). Hard work, dedication and the privilege of being able to attend school from age 10 eventually brought him a job as a tourist officer in a nature reserve, a position which made possible a chance meeting that would change the path of his life forever.
Consumed by a passion for mountains and physical challenges, his life story is one that involves continental summits, ultra running, humility, the responsibilities of being a role model, laughter, charity work, motivational speaking, multiple summits of Everest and historical partnerships with... Sir Ranulph Fiennes.
> Read more about Sibusiso Vilane at www.sibusisovilane.co.za
> Visit the podcast at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking for their kind support!
[episode recorded on 11/11/21]
00:00 – Introduction
02:16 – Welcome, responding to the pandemic by running (“I ran a full marathon last weekend… it was just dreadful!”
08:30 – The rarest of all mountaineering backgrounds: growing up poor and black in apartheid Johannesburg, then Swaziland (“we never had clothes or three square meals a day”)
12:50 – Life as a “Headboy” in rural Swaziland (“I was 10 years old when I started school”), a multilingual upbringing
19:05 – First steps into the world of work: manual labour, writing letters, a nature reserve, natural knowledge, life as a tourist officer, and a fateful meeting
23:00 – Discovering the Drakensberg (“a vast mountain range, and a beautiful mountain grassland”), John Doble, waterfall scrambling, the start of mountaineering plans, why can’t black Africans do the same?
30:40 - “It will not make sense to my grandmother or my mother who are trying to fend through hardship to bring food on the table… why would I want to go overseas to climb a mountain?”
32:20 – Kilimanjaro: “I got as sick as a dog on day two, all the high altitude symptoms that you can get, I got all of them! But I summited on the most beautiful day, and I looked at that and thought that one day I would want to see the sunrise from the summit of Mt Everest”.
36:50 – “I want to do it for Africa. I want to show the world and Africans themselves that they can do these things.”
40:54 – Climbing Everest (“I can never deceive people that it was easy. It was physically tough. Mentally tough… it can never be explained in words how physically tough it is.”)
50:34 – Reaching the summit (“You are about to be proof that it can be done… you become overcome by your emotions and you don’t believe what is happening.”)
56:30 - “It took me a long time to realise how relevant it was going to be to any other young kid who grows up in Africa without a home”, meeting Nelson Mandela
58:50 – The first black African to climb the Seven Summits (“when you set a standard, how do you keep it as consistent? There’s no way I could be consistent as a role model by climbing just one mountain. I will keep on climbing as long as I live to be looked upon as an example.”)
68:50 – Being changed by mountain experiences (“I still regard mountains as the best ‘university’ I’ve ever attended.”), summiting Everest for a second time… with Ranulph Fiennes.
75:20 – Sitting in a tent with Ranulph Fiennes: “Well if there’s anything else you want to do it’s one of the polar walks” (“When I looked at his hands, which were frostbitten, I thought ‘well, not a good idea…’”)
76:38 - Greatest Mountain Memory: “I looked at this mountain and I just fell in love with it. I was disappointed to learn that it wasn’t Everest, it was Ama Dablam. This is the mountain that calls me to go back to mountains.”, similar experiences with the Matterhorn.
79:32 - *HONK HONK*
80:20 - All the time, money, freedom, where do you go?: “It depends on the season… on the slopes of an 8,000m mountain waiting to summit… sweating profusely running a desert marathon… on a safari in the bush with the family…”
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Series 2 is here! And it requires a small amount of introduction. All of which you’ll find in the audio file you're currently browsing. However, for those of us that prefer the written word, here’s a précis:
- there will be another 10 fantastic interviewees to look forward to.
- it’s proudly sponsored by www.ukhillwalking.com (“the fastest growing hillwalking website in the world”).
- the first episode is available via your browser on UKH right now, so you can listen to it straight away if you so desire.
- it will then be released on mountainairpodcast.uk and this podcast feed in two weeks’ time, on Wednesday 15 December.
- the same two week arrangement will be true for future episodes
- episode 1 features the truly inspirational Sibusiso Vilane!
That’s it. What are you waiting for? Get your sweet self over to www.ukhillwalking.com pronto.
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Episode #10 stars guidebook writer, website editor, mountaineering journalist and all round outdoor adept Dan Bailey.
When not researching and writing up gleaming new guidebooks to his adopted homeland of Scotland, London-born Dan lives the life of a professional outdoor scribe, managing a popular hillwalking website, publishing intricate route descriptions of the UK’s most inspiring mountain adventures, and tirelessly reviewing reams of expensive kit so that you don’t have to. It’s a tough life, I tells ya.
Beyond this insight into one of planet Earth’s true “dream jobs”, Dan has enjoyed mountaineering epics from the Pyrenees to the Rwenzori (though he seems to enjoy an ice-clad Scotland best) and was once struck by lightning on the Cobbler. It’s every bit the anecdote that you would hope it to be.
You can see Dan’s Cicerone author page here: cicerone.co.uk/authors/dan-bailey and make sure to visit UKHillwalking.com to see the fruits of his daily labours too.
[episode recorded on 02/09/21]
00:00 - Introduction
01:44 - Welcome, guidebook writing
11:22 - Precious feedback, and being recognised on the hill
15:06 - “Over 10-15 years each book may have earned me a reasonable year’s salary”
16:50 - Struck by lightning on the Cobbler: (holes in boots, exploding mugs and “my whole body was buzzing, like when you bang your funny bone and you get that nerve tingle. I had that from head to toe”). Eventually being poked and prodded by doctors
26:43 - Outdoor journalism, editing ukhillwalking.com, “I’ve always understood how lucky I am to do that and call it work.”
35:42 - Exploring every part of the UK mountains, “there are hills and even whole ranges that I haven’t even visited yet, so there’s always more to do”
39:58 - Living remotely, “nine miles down a single track road from Gairloch… so a good 140 mile round trip on mountain roads in the winter to get the groceries in. We were menu planning quite closely.”
43:30 - Reviewing outdoor gear for a living “It’s a real perk to have all this free gear showered on us, but it’s a real job as well.”
47:06 - Calling all EU47 / UK12 boot-wearing hillwalkers
48:35 - A “power imbalance” between outdoor brands and outdoor media?
51:38 - An epic tale… climbing the three highest peaks in Africa, connected by public transport, “three weeks of manic bus travel”
57:00 - (from https://www.britannica.com/place/Margherita-Peak... “It was first climbed in 1906 by an expedition led by Luigi Amedeo Abruzzi and was named for Queen Margherita of Italy”)
61:00 - “We got into a little bivvy hut which is sort of like a metal coffin…”
63:53 - Greatest Mountain Memory - a youthful awakening in the Pyrenees “The feeling of freedom and limitless possibility that you get when this mountain world opens to you for the first time, and you’re there under your own steam with no particular agenda… this is it. This is the most in touch with the world, and peaceful and enthused I’ve felt. Ever. I suppose I’m always trying to recreate that youthful, wide-eyed experience of the mountains.”
68:48 - All the time, money, freedom, where do you go? “I like Scotland a lot, but I’ve never been to Scotland’s big sister, which is Norway… I’m going to drive from south to north over four months picking off mountaineering routes.”
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