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This week, Nick and Goldy interview a Pitchfork Economics first: a sitting President of the United States. President Joe Biden joins the podcast for a conversation about the transformative economic vision at the heart of his presidency. Biden shares how his groundbreaking middle-out economic policies—investing in workers, rebuilding infrastructure, and revitalizing American industries—are reshaping the economy and creating a legacy of shared prosperity. From empowering unions to creating good-paying jobs and boosting wages, the President underscores why a thriving middle class isn’t just the foundation of a strong economy—it’s the engine that drives it. This is an insightful discussion with the leader who has helped turn the page on five decades of failed economic theory, breaking the suffocating DC economic consensus in favor of prioritizing working Americans.
Joseph R. Biden is the 46th President of the United States.
Social Media:
Facebook: Joe Biden
Instagram: joebiden
Threads: joebiden
Twitter: @JoeBiden
Further reading:
President Biden in The American Prospect: From the Middle Out and Bottom Up
A New Economics Takes Hold
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This week, Nick and Goldy explore why the market alone can’t solve the U.S. housing crisis with Sandeep Vaheesan and Brian Callaci from the Open Markets Institute. The guests discuss their recent article in the Harvard Business Review, which explains how profit-driven private markets fail to address housing affordability, particularly for lower-income individuals. Their discussion underscores the drawbacks of deregulation and the need for strong antitrust enforcement, second-generation rent controls, enhanced tenant protections, and a public option for housing to ensure stability and affordability. Vaheesan and Callaci also stress the significance of understanding the interconnected issues of supply, demand, and the socioeconomic factors driving the crisis, arguing that without proactive governmental intervention the housing market cannot effectively meet the needs of those seeking affordable housing.
Sandeep Vaheesan is the legal director at the Open Markets Institute. He leads the institute’s legal advocacy and research on a range of anti-monopoly topics, including antitrust law’s role in structuring labor markets and promoting fair competition. Before working at the Open Markets Institute, he served as regulations counsel at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, where he helped develop rules on payday and title lending and debt collection practices.
Brian Callaci is the chief economist at the Open Markets Institute. He researches and writes about market structure, antitrust law, and their relationship to worker and employer power. In addition to peer-reviewed academic research, he publishes articles in news outlets such as The Atlantic, Harvard Business Review, and The New Republic. Before working at the Open Markets Institute, he worked at the Strategic Organizing Center and Workers United/SEIU.
Social Media:
Sandeep Vaheesan on Twitter: @sandeepvaheesan
Brian Callaci on Twitter: @brian_callaci
Open Markets Institute on BlueSky: @openmarkets.bsky.social
Open Markets Institute on Twitter: @openmarkets
Further reading:
The Market Alone Can’t Fix the U.S. Housing Crisis
Zoning change: Upzonings, downzonings, and their impacts on residential construction,
housing costs, and neighborhood demographics
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This week, Gregg Colburn, co-author of "Homelessness is a Housing Problem," joins Nick and Goldy to dissect the complex factors fueling America’s homelessness crisis. Colburn presents compelling evidence that challenges common misconceptions around homelessness, revealing that it stems primarily from the rising costs of housing rather than issues like addiction or mental illness. He explains that evidence shows comprehensive strategies—combining affordable housing, rental assistance, and supportive services—can meaningfully reduce numbers in the unhoused population. While acknowledging the long-term nature of the challenge, Colburn reframes housing as essential infrastructure, calls for big investments in building more housing units, and offers a compelling, data-driven case for rethinking America’s approach to homelessness and housing affordability.
Gregg Colburn is an associate professor of real estate at the University of Washington’s College of Built Environments. He publishes research on topics related to housing and homelessness and is co-author of the book Homelessness is a Housing Problem: How Structural Factors Explain U.S. Patterns. Professor Colburn is co-chair of the University of Washington’s Homelessness Research Initiative and is a member of the National Alliance to End Homelessness Research Council.
Further reading:
Homelessness is a Housing Problem: How Structural Factors Explain U.S. Patterns
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This week, Nick and Goldy discuss the concept of social housing with Vox Policy Correspondent Rachel Cohen. They explore how local government investments in mixed-income housing can keep cities affordable for the middle class. Drawing from her reporting, Cohen spotlights the innovative social housing experiment in Montgomery County, Maryland, which demonstrates how well-designed public housing can rival private market options without falling prey to stigma or inefficiency. They also explore the financial benefits of publicly owned housing and its potential to alleviate the widespread housing crisis by providing a sustainable, scalable solution that benefits low- and middle-income earners by delivering lasting affordability.
Rachel Cohen is a policy correspondent for Vox Media. She focuses on U.S. social policy, covering issues such as education, abortion, economic policy, and housing. Rachel has been covering social policy issues for more than a decade, with her reporting published in more than two dozen national outlets, including the New York Times, the Atlantic, Bloomberg, the Daily Beast, and the Washington Post.
Social Media:
@rmc031
@rachelmcohen.bsky.social
Further reading:
What if public housing were for everyone?
One possible housing crisis solution? A new kind of public housing for all income levels
An Innovative Financing Model for Affordable Housing
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This week, Nick And Goldy are joined by Faiz Shakir, Executive Director of A More Perfect Union, to discuss the shocking revelation of an international oil price-fixing conspiracy. Their conversation explores how the collusion between American oil companies and the foreign nations that make up OPEC significantly contributed to inflation, costing American families between $500 and $1,000 annually. Shakir explains how the Federal Trade Commission uncovered this conspiracy and highlights the urgent need for increased regulatory oversight and harsher penalties to protect consumers from corporate malpractice.
Faiz Shakir is the Executive Director of the nonprofit education, advocacy, and journalism organization, More Perfect Union, and former campaign manager of Senator Bernie Sanders’ 2020 Presidential Campaign. Prior to his work with Senator Sanders, Shakir held various leadership positions within the Democratic Party and progressive organizations, working to advance social and economic justice issues.
Social Media:
@faiz.bsky.social
@fshakir
@perfectunion
@moreperfectunion.bsky.social
@MorePerfectUS
Further reading:
An Oil Price-Fixing Conspiracy Caused 27% of All Inflation Increases in 2021
A 2024 Timeline of Big Oil Greed
House Democrats investigate whether Big Oil colluded with OPEC to inflate gas prices
The Truth Behind the Latest Oil Price-Fixing Scandal
Gas Price Fixing Scandal Grows as Another US Oil Exec 'Caught Colluding With OPEC'
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This week, Natalie Foster, co-founder of the Economic Security Project, joins Nick and Goldy to discuss her book The Guarantee: Inside the Fight for America's Next Economy. Foster argues that as the world’s wealthiest nation, the U.S. can ensure a basic economic floor for all by guaranteeing essentials like housing, healthcare, higher education, family care, good jobs, and income, regardless of race, religion, or location. Foster explains how giving people money might just be the key to growing the economy for everyone. Their wide-ranging conversation covers topics including the wealth gap, housing affordability, baby bonds, and the political dynamics surrounding guarantee programs.
Natalie Foster is the president and co-founder of the Economic Security Project and author of the book The Guarantee: Inside the Fight for America’s Next Economy. Natalie previously founded the sharing economy community Peers, and co-founded Rebuild the Dream, and served as Digital Director for President Obama’s Organizing for America.
Twitter: @nataliefoster
Further reading:
The Guarantee: Inside the Fight for America’s Next Economy
Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com
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Voting is the cornerstone of a functioning democracy, yet access to the ballot is increasingly under threat in America. No matter who wins the Presidential race, it should be a priority to strengthen and expand accessible and secure voting. This election day, we’re revisiting a conversation we had in 2021 with Andrea Hailey, CEO of Vote.org, where we unpack the ongoing fight for voting rights and discuss how restrictive policies disproportionately impact marginalized communities. Hailey shares insights into the tools and strategies we can all use to ensure that every American has an equal voice at the polls. She also explains why voting access matters more than ever and how we can stand up for democracy by defending the right to vote.
This episode originally aired on October 21, 2021.
Andrea Hailey is the CEO of Vote.org, the nation’s largest nonpartisan digital voter engagement organization.
Twitter: @votedotorg
See what’s on your ballot
Sign up to get election reminders
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As Election Day approaches, Peggy Bailey from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities joins Paul and Goldy to discuss the devastating potential effects of the House Republican agenda and the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025. The proposals, supported by candidates who will be on your ballot this November, include a wholesale dismantling of federal government programs, cutting benefits, shifting costs to states, and penalizing working families in order to slash taxes for the rich. Bailey reveals the massive economic disinvestment and inherent racism and discrimination in the trickle-down agenda of Project 2025 and the House Republican agenda, even as she emphasizes the need for the federal government to revitalize the economy from the bottom up with investments in those who have been marginalized.
Peggy Bailey is the Executive Vice President of Policy and Program Development at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. She previously served in the Biden-Harris Administration as the Senior Advisor on Rental Assistance to HUD Secretary Marcia L. Fudge. She also served as the Director of Health and Housing Integration for the Corporation for Supportive Housing, where she focused on Medicaid expansion and finding sustainable funding sources for the services that people with histories of homelessness and chronic health conditions need to maintain their housing.
Twitter: @PeggyBaileyDC @CenterOnBudget
Further reading:
Report from the Center on Budget & Policy Priorities: House Republican Agendas and Project 2025 Would Increase Poverty and Hardship, Drive Up the Uninsured Rate, and Disinvest From People, Communities, and the Economy
Stop Project 2025 Comic Book
Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com
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Since Daron Acemoglu just won the 2024 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences alongside MIT Sloan professor Simon Johnson and University of Chicago professor James Robinson, we’re revisiting this powerful episode featuring Acemoglu’s insights from 2023. In his groundbreaking book Power and Progress, Acemoglu exposes how the elite have weaponized technology to tighten their grip on wealth and influence, and explains how we can ensure that technological progress works for everyone, not just the wealthy few.
This episode originally aired on August 22, 2023.
Daron Acemoglu is the Institute Professor of Economics at MIT, the university’s highest faculty honor, and a 2024 Nobel laureate. For the last twenty-five years, he has been researching the historical origins of prosperity, poverty, and the effects of new technologies on economic growth, employment, and inequality. He is an author (with James Robinson) of The Narrow Corridor and the New York Times bestseller Why Nations Fail.
Twitter: @NarrowCorridor
Further reading:
Trio of professors win Nobel economics prize for work on post-colonial wealth
Democracy is in a ‘tough stretch.’ New Nobel winners explain how to strengthen it
Power and Progress: Our Thousand-Year Struggle Over Technology and Prosperity
The Narrow Corridor: States, Societies, and the Fate of Liberty
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Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction
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Private equity is looting America by exploiting vulnerable companies and extracting profits at the expense of workers, communities, and the broader economy. They've been buying up companies in every industry in the U.S. Economy and stripping them for parts. These massive firms have vast holdings across critical industries essential to the health and well-being of everyday people. Some recent examples include private equity's role in education, utilities, housing, and even in the healthcare sector, which led to the closure of hospitals and nursing homes, endangering public health. We thought it would be a good time to revisit this episode from 2023 with Brendan Ballou, a federal prosecutor and the author of Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America. In this episode, he explains how we can stop private equity’s plan to pillage America.
This episode originally aired on July 25, 2023.
Brendan Ballou is a federal prosecutor and served as Special Counsel for Private Equity in the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division. Previously, he worked in private practice, and before that, in the National Security Division of the Justice Department, where he advised the White House on counterterrorism and other policies.
Twitter: @brendanballou
Further reading:
Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America
The Guardian - Slash and burn: is private equity out of control?
Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com
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This week, Nick and Goldy are joined by Fordham Law professor Zephyr Teachout, who explains the urgent need for federal action on corporate price-gouging. Professor Teachout identifies misconceptions about price controls and highlights the failure of mainstream economists to recognize that price-gouging is a common practice, especially in light of skyrocketing corporate profit margins during the pandemic. Their conversation also unpacks the need for stronger antitrust enforcement, decreased market concentration, and more regulations aimed at protecting consumers in times of crisis.
Zephyr Teachout is a Professor of Law at Fordham Law School, where she focuses on the intersection of corporate and political power. She is also the author of multiple books, including Corruption in America: From Benjamin Franklin's Snuff Box to Citizens United and Break 'Em Up: Recovering Our Freedom from Big Ag, Big Tech, and Big Money.
Twitter: @ZephyrTeachout
Further reading:
The Atlantic - Sometimes You Just Have to Ignore the Economists
More Perfect Union - Why Are Diaper Prices Up 184 Percent? Two Corporations are Preying on Parents
The New Republic - A Very Good Sign: Kamala Harris Is Going Right at Corporate Greed
Find out if your state has a price gouging law here: NCSL Price Gouging State Statutes
Books By Professor Teachout:
Break 'Em Up: Recovering Our Freedom from Big Ag, Big Tech, and Big Money
Corruption in America: From Benjamin Franklin's Snuff Box to Citizens United
Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com
Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction
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This week, Nick and Goldy welcome sociologist Nikhil Goyal to discuss his new book, Live to See the Day: Coming of Age in American Poverty, which highlights the deep-rooted effects of generational poverty in America by focusing on the experiences of three young people in Kensington, Philadelphia. Their stories illustrate how systemic inequality and poor economic policies perpetuate a cycle of despair and intergenerational poverty. Goyal explains the limitations of traditional anti-poverty solutions like promoting higher educational attainment. Instead, he spotlights the need for direct cash transfers, robust public goods, and a public option for programs like healthcare, affordable housing, or even publicly owned grocery stores that directly address the causes of poverty.
Nikhil Goyal is a sociologist and former senior policy advisor on education and children for Senator Bernie Sanders on the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions and Committee on the Budget. He also developed a tuition-free college program for incarcerated people and correctional workers in Vermont. He is the author of the book LIVE TO SEE THE DAY: Coming of Age in American Poverty.
Twitter: @drgoyalnikhil
Further reading:
LIVE TO SEE THE DAY: Coming of Age in American Poverty
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It’s our 300th episode! To mark this milestone, we’ve gathered some of the most thoughtful and inspiring answers to one of our favorite questions: Why do you do this work? Plus, Nick and Goldy share what keeps them in the fight for a better economy. We're deeply grateful for the wisdom of our incredible guests and, most of all, for YOU—our listeners—who’ve supported us along the way. Here’s to many more conversations unpacking who gets what and why in our economy, and how to build the economy from the middle out.
Love what you’re hearing on the pod? Follow us on social media using the links below for updates and spicy takes on the economy! And if you haven’t already, make sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode. While you’re at it, give us a rating and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts—it helps us reach more people interested in rethinking or better understanding the economy and want to build a better future. Thanks for listening!
Guests Featured:
Jared Bernstein - Chair, White House Council of Economic Advisors
Reshma Saujani - Founder, Girls Who Code and the Marshall Plan for Moms
Mark Blyth - Political Economist and author of Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation
Rohit Chopra - Director, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)
Joseph Stiglitz (3-time guest) - Economist and author of The Road to Freedom: Economics and the Good Society
Caitlin Myers - Professor of Economics at Middlebury College and Co-Director of the Middlebury Initiative for Data and Digital Methods.
Kim Stanley Robinson - American Science Fiction writer and author of The Ministry for the Future
Marshall Steinbaum (2-time guest) - Assistant Professor of Economics at the University of Utah and a Senior Fellow in Higher Education Finance at Jain Family Institute.
Elizabeth Anderson - Professor of Public Philosophy at the University of Michigan and author of Hijacked: How Neoliberalism Turned the Work Ethic against Workers and How Workers Can Take It Back
Bharat Ramamurti - Former Deputy Director of the White House National Economic Council
Elizabeth Wilkins - Senior Fellow at the American Economic Liberties Project and former Director of the Office of Policy and Planning at the Federal Trade Commission
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This week, Nick and Goldy are joined by MIT economist Anna Stansbury to discuss the troubling lack of socioeconomic diversity within the economics profession. Stansbury discusses her research from a paper she co-authored with Robert Schultz titled “The Economics Profession’s Socioeconomic Diversity Problem”, which reveals that a strikingly low percentage of economists come from less-advantaged backgrounds. They have a thoughtful discussion about how that lack of diversity affects the profession's ability to address issues of power, inequality, and social problems, and they highlight the need for more diverse perspectives in the profession to ensure a more inclusive and equitable approach to economic analysis. They also point out that diversifying the field is not just a matter of equity but is crucial for fostering innovative solutions to economic challenges.
Anna Stansbury is an economist and Assistant Professor of Work and Organization Studies at MIT Sloan School of Management. She is also a nonresident senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Her research primarily focuses on labor economics, with a particular emphasis on wage inequality, labor market power, and the dynamics of worker power within organizations. She recently co-authored a paper with Robert Schutls, “Socioeconomic Diversity of Economics Ph.Ds,” published by the Journal of Economic Perspectives.
Twitter: @annastansbury
Further reading: Socioeconomic Diversity of Economics PhDs
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This week, Nick and Goldy talk to esteemed economist Colin Mayer, author of the book Capitalism and Crises: How to Fix Them, to explore the deep-seated issues plaguing modern capitalism, including rising inequality and environmental degradation. Mayer argues that the current profit-driven mindset of corporations often leads to societal harm, and he advocates for a paradigm shift towards a model where businesses profit by solving real human problems rather than creating them. Their conversation dissects the historical evolution of corporate responsibility, critiques neoliberal economics, and proposes solutions that redirect corporate focus toward societal benefit, and the urgent need for a more equitable economic structure that uplifts the middle class.
Colin Mayer is a distinguished academic in the field of finance and economics. He is the Peter Moores Professor of Management Studies at the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. With a background in economics and finance, Mayer has conducted extensive research on corporate finance, governance, and the role of business in society. His work has been widely published in academic journals, and he is the author of several books, including "Capitalism and Crises."
Further reading: Capitalism and Crises: How to Fix Them
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In the wake of the Democratic National Convention, Nick and Goldy take a close look at how middle-out economics has become the new center of the Democratic Party's economic policies, championing a new era of economic thinking that puts workers, families and taking on corporate power at the center, and breaking away from decades of top-down, trickle-down approaches. With echoes of President Joe Biden’s—and now former President Bill Clinton’s—call to build the economy from the bottom up and the middle out, Vice President Harris is seizing the middle-out mantle by declaring that building the middle class will be a defining goal of her presidency because in her words, “When our middle class is strong, America is strong.” Join us as we discuss how invigorating it was to see the Democratic Party coalescing around the idea that their economic policies should benefit the vast majority of working people in order to grow the economy.
Further reading:
The New Kamala - The American Prospect
Kamala Harris and the New Democratic Economic Paradigm - The New Yorker
Say It to My Face -The American Prospect
Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com
Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction
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Over ten years ago, activists and civic leaders ignited the Fight for $15, a movement that was once seen as radical—even Forbes labeled Nick's support for a $15 minimum wage as “near-insane.” Today, the movement's achievements are undeniable: Higher wages for millions of workers, increased union membership, reducing the racial wealth gap, and now raising the federal minimum wage to $15/ hr is one of the central issues in the 2024 presidential campaign, with two-thirds of voters in support. We thought it would be a good time to revisit this episode from 2023, where Yannet Lathrop and Dr. T. William Lester discuss their report from the National Economic Law Project examining the legacy of the movement and all it has accomplished over the last decade.
This episode originally aired on January 24, 2023.
Yannet Lathrop is a Senior Researcher and Policy Analyst for the National Employment Law Project.
Dr. T. William Lester is Professor and Acting Chair of Urban and Regional Planning at San José State University and Research Professor at UNC Chapel Hill.
Twitter: @NELPnews
Further reading:
Ten-Year Legacy of the Fight for $15 and a Union Movement
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Martin Wolf, chief economics commentator at the Financial Times, joins Nick and Goldy to discuss his new book, "The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism." They explore the important-yet-fragile connection between capitalism and democracy, particularly in the context of rising inequality and political instability. Wolf articulates how the perceived success of democratic capitalism has begun to falter under the onslaught of economic policies favoring the wealthy and eroding the middle class. Ultimately, Wolf advocates for stronger social safety nets to ensure that democratic systems, as well as working and middle-class families, can thrive in an era dominated by economic upheaval.
Martin Wolf is the chief economics commentator at the Financial Times, known for his incisive analyses and authoritative perspectives on global economics and policy. With a distinguished career spanning several decades, Wolf has shaped public discourse on economic matters through his insightful columns and books. His latest book, "The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism," details how and why the marriage between democracy and capitalism is coming undone and what can be done to reverse this terrifying dynamic.
Twitter: @martinwolf_
Further reading: The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism
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This week, Nick and Goldy are joined by Michael Graetz to discuss his new book, "The Power to Destroy: How the Anti-Tax Movement Hijacked America.” Graetz asserts that while the anti-tax movement is often overlooked, it has shaped policy by intertwining with issues of race and economic ideology, diverging from Keynesian economics in favor of neoliberal supply-side economics that results in extreme wealth accumulation at the top. He argues for major tax reforms, including a carbon tax and the implementation of a value-added tax, as potential solutions to creating a more equitable and sustainable tax code that would benefit the middle class. Their conversation also revisits the historical origins of the anti-tax movement in the United States and highlights how tax policy is not just shaped by economic theory— it’s also shaped by cultural and social differences.
Michael Graetz is a professor emeritus at Columbia Law School and Yale Law School and a leading authority on tax politics and policy. He served in the U.S. Treasury’s Office of Tax Policy and is the author and co-author of many books, including Death by a Thousand Cuts: The Fight over Taxing Inherited Wealth and The Burger Court and the Rise of the Judicial Right.
Further reading:
The Power to Destroy: How the Antitax Movement Hijacked America
The Graetz Competitive Tax Plan, Updated for 2022
Death by a Thousand Cuts: The Fight over Taxing Inherited Wealth
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It’s Paul and Goldy’s summer reading list! In this week’s special episode, Civic Ventures Senior Fellow David “Goldy” Goldstein and Civic Ventures Writer Paul Constant recommend some of the hottest new economic and political books for your beach reading pleasure.
We want to know what you’re reading, too. Leave us a comment on Instagram, Twitter, Threads or YouTube!
Remember to shop local and small when you can, or order from IndieBound or Bookshop.org—both of which support independent bookstores! All of these books are also likely available through your local library.
Every book mentioned in this episode:
In This Economy?: How Money & Markets Really Work - Kyla Scanlon
End Times: Elites, Counter-Elites, and the Path of Political Disintegration - Peter Turchin
The Chile Project: The Story of the Chicago Boys and the Downfall of Neoliberalism - Sebastian Edwards
Our Malady: Lessons in Liberty from a Hospital Diary - Timothy Snyder
Growth: A History and a Reckoning - Daniel Susskind
Empty Planet: The Shock of Global Population Decline - Darrell Bricker & John Ibbitson
A Fabulous Failure: The Clinton Presidency and the Transformation of American Capitalism - Nelson Lichtenstein & Judith Stein
The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York - Robert A. Caro
The Road to Freedom: Economics and the Good Society - Joseph E. Stiglitz
Work, Retire, Repeat: The Uncertainty of Retirement in the New Economy - Teresa Ghilarducci
New Nigeria County - Clare Brown
Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens - David Mitchell
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