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In this special episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil brings you the season finale of the season. Dan Martell, Mark Stouse, Dani Grant, Brandon Metcalf, Ajay Goel, Geoff Roberts, Chris Frantz, Rand Fishkin, Jason Radisson, and Rex Kurzius share their experiences and insights on various topics in the startup world. They discuss their journeys as founders, the challenges they faced, and the strategies they used to build successful companies. They also touch on topics such as fundraising, product development, marketing strategies, and the importance of understanding the needs of your target audience. They provide valuable insights and advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Guests at a Glance:
Dan Martell on LinkedInMark Stouse on LinkedInDani Grant on LinkedInBrandon Metcalf on LinkedInAjay Goel on LinkedInGeoff Roberts on LinkedInChris Frantz on LinkedInRand Fishkin on LinkedInJason Radisson on LinkedInRex Kurzius on LinkedInLinks from the episode:
SaaS AcademyBuy Back Your TimeProofMisbehavior of MarketsJam.devPlaceThe Hard Things About Hard Things by Ben HorowitzGMassOutsetaLoopsSparkToroRappi99 Uber TechnologiesAsset PandaLinks to full episodes:
Building A Multimillion Dollar SaaS Company From Scratch with Dan Martell of SaaS Academy
5 Things They Didn’t Teach You About Leading a SaaS Business with Mark Stouse of Proof
The SaaS Product Market Fit Toolkit with Dani Grant of Jam.dev
5 Things Every SaaS Founder Should Know About Navigating The World Of Startups with Brandon Metcalf of Place
How To Shoestring Your SaaS with Ajay Goel of GMass
What SaaS Companies Need To Know About Content Marketing with Geoff Roberts of Outseta
How to Refine your SaaS Product with Chris Frantz of Loops
The End of VC with Rand Fishkin of SparkToro
Exploring the SaaS Impact of AI & ChatGPT with Jason Radisson from Movo
How This SaaS Founder Fixed an Outdated Business Model with Rex Kurzius of Asset PandaTopics we cover:
[01:23] - From Coding to Reading: Dan Martell's Journey of Self-Driven Education[05:37] - Mark Stouse discusses the Origin, Development, and Unique Funding Approach of Proof Analytics[09:59] - Dani Grant's Insights: Transition from VC to Founder and Navigating Fundraising[14:40] - Brandon Metcalf's Journey: From Staffing to SaaS Funding and Mastering Salesforce[19:47] - Ajay Goel on Building GMass, and Navigating Operational Costs and Monetization[24:22] - Geoff Roberts on the Journey of Outseta: Part-time Beginnings, Bootstrapping Over VC Funding, and Leveraging Unique Marketing Strategies[29:50] - Chris Frantz discusses the Art of Software Craftsmanship, Early Fundraising, and Building Loops from Scratch to Simplicity[34:35] - Independent Pathways and Rigorous Research: Rand Fishkin's Journey to Build SparkToro[41:11] - Jason Radisson’s Insights: Building a Tech-Enabled Business from Ground Up[47:40] - Identifying and Solving Market Problems: Rex Kurzius on Asset Management Evolution -
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Jane Portman, Co-Founder of Userlist, an email marketing platform built with B2B Saas in mind. Together, they discuss Jane’s history of creating successful products and how they led to what Userlist is today, the experience of joining an accelerator program as an SaaS founder, and why expansion revenue is the goldmine of SaaS.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Jane Portman
About Jane: Jane Portman, Co-Founder of Userlist, an email marketing platform built with B2B Saas in mind. A UI/UX consultant, specializing in web application design, Jane also runs the UI Breakfast Podcast.
Jane on LinkedInUserlist on LinkedInUserlist WebsiteUI Breakfast WebsiteLinks from the episode:
Jane on LinkedInUserlist on LinkedInUserlist WebsiteTopics we cover:
[00:07] - The Problem that Userlist Solves and How Jane Discovered It[01:26] - Jane’s History of Trial and Error in Creating Successful Products[06:41] - Making the Decision to Join an Accelerator[09:54] - Business Growth after Joining an Accelerator[13:35] - Finding Your First Customers[19:38] - Dealing with Surprising Customer and Non-Customer Feedback [24:25] - Learning the Limit of Resources[26:04] - Expansion Revenue as the Goldmine of SaaS[27:44] - Tiered vs. Metered Pricing Models[31:54] - The Problem with Pricing Too Low[33:02] - A Look into the Current and Future Picture of Userlist
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Artem Koren, Co-Founder and Chief Product Officer of Sembly AI, an SaaS platform that uses proprietary AI algorithms to transcribe and analyze meetings. Together, they discuss making smart decisions in the early stages of a startup, as well as how to recover from blunders, insights into building out an AI engine, and how Artem found and filled a gap in the technology market.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Artem Koren
About Artem: Artem Koren, Co-Founder and Chief Product Officer of Sembly AI, an SaaS platform that uses proprietary AI algorithms to transcribe and analyze meetings, making them a more effective experience for teams. Previously he was the Senior Vice President at UMT Consulting, which was acquired by EY Advisory in 2015, and the Co-Founder of Neusana.
Artem on LinkedInSembly AI on LinkedInSembly AI WebsiteLinks from the episode:
Artem on LinkedInArtem on TwitterArtem’s article on the Major Pitfalls of Generative AIArtem’s WebsiteArtem’s book UntetheredSembly AI on LinkedInSembly AI WebsiteSembly AI BlogSembly AI on TwitterTopics we cover:
[00:14] - Artem’s Journey from Consulting to Co-Founder and Chief Product Officer[03:48] - Sembly AI as a Problem Solver[08:39] - Insights into Building Out an AI Engine[20:58] - The Importance of Focussing on Individual User Experiences when Approaching Big Organizations[27:54] - Finding and Filling a Gap in the Technology Market[34:23] - Dealing with ‘Hype’ when Building a New Product[37:39] - Making Smart Decisions in the Early Days of a Startup[45:52] - How to Deal with Early Mistakes and a Lack of Predictability[51:46] - Why You Should Approach Customers Earlier Rather Than Later -
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Jason Radisson, CEO of Movo, a platform that helps businesses build, run, and upskill their workforces. On top of that, he is also an Investor & Growth Advisor at Rappi! Together, they delve into Jason’s history as a serial entrepreneur, how Movo acquired online giant Amazon as a client, and why bootstrapping can be both a risky and effective method of funding a startup. They also discuss whether entry-level jobs will be automated away by the likes of ChatGPT and AI.
So make sure you stick around for this one; you don’t want to miss out!!
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Jason Radisson
About Jason: Jason Radisson, CEO of Movo, a platform that helps businesses build, run, and upskill their workforces! On top of that, he is also an Investor & Growth Advisor at Rappi! Previously, he was Chief Operating Officer at 99-Taxis, General Manager at Uber Technologies, and Founder and CEO of Echtzeit GmbH.
Jason on LinkedInMovo’s LinkedInMovo’s WebsiteLinks from the episode:
Jason on LinkedInMovo’s LinkedInMovo’s WebsiteRappi99 Uber TechnologiesTopics we cover:
[00:20] - Jason’s History as a Serial Founder and Entrepreneur[04:44] - What Distinguishes a Massive Online Marketplace?[07:03] - How Movo Acquired Amazon as a Customer[11:10] - Bootstrapping: A Risky But Effective Method of Fundraising[20:20] - Helping the Bigger Corporations Onboard Your Systems[24:10] - Most Founders Just Want to Help People Get Ahead[34:01] - Will Entry-Level White Collar Jobs be Automated Away? -
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Daniel Bakh, CEO of Fullview, a platform that enables SaaS companies to deliver delightful support that is fast, personable, and scalable. He is also the Host of the Collective Hindsight podcast where accomplished founders and investors share their stories, and was previously the Growth Manager at Contractbook and a Product Evangelist at TwentyThree.
Join them as they delve into how Daniel turned his frustration in a customer-facing SaaS role into an entirely new business, why going full-time with Fullview straight away was a very risky but worthwhile move, and why your SaaS product needs a hook for your investors. They also discuss why listening to your customers' problems is one of the most important things you can do as a founder.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Daniel Bakh
About Daniel: Daniel Bakh is the CEO of Fullview, a platform that enables SaaS companies to deliver delightful support that is fast, personable, and scalable. He is also the Host of the Collective Hindsight podcast where accomplished founders and investors share their stories, and was previously the Growth Manager at Contractbook and a Product Evangelist at TwentyThree.
Daniel on LinkedInFullview on LinkedInFullview’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
How Fullview saves time for B2B SaaS companiesGoing fulltime from day one and the fundraising processJumping straight into the company: brave or stupid?Pitching the idea to investorsSometimes all you need is a powerpointFiguring out your North StarWhy you should meet with every user of your productVisualizing the design of a feature before actually making itListen to the customers, but focus on their problemsAnd more!
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Rex Kurzius, Founder of Asset Panda,a powerful cloud-based asset relationship management platform that helps you keep track of your devices and create interdependencies between them. He is also the Founder of LRK Partners, Timberhorn, and Resulte Universal. He was also the President of Virtual Village.
Together, they get into how Rex’s serial entrepreneurship journey played out and whether or not first time founders should even start with SaaS, how he found (and solved) a problem within the SaaS market, why you should always mindmap your idea, and why retaining your customers means you have to keep making your product better.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Rex Kurzius
About Rex: Rex Kurzius is the Founder of Asset Panda, a powerful cloud-based asset relationship management platform that helps you keep track of your devices and create interdependencies between them. He is also the Founder of LRK Partners, Timberhorn, and Resulte Universal. He was also the President of Virtual Village.
Rex on LinkedInAsset Panda on LinkedInAsset Panda’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
How Asset Panda helps companies understand their equipmentShould you wait before building a SaaS company?The Age of EntrepreneurshipSolving the problems of an outdated business modelMindmap your ideas for a businessFinding the gaps in the marketContent marketing: the most effective way to marketRetaining your customers means making the product betterAnd more!
Key Takeaways:
The Arc of a Serial Entrepreneur
When Rex was just twenty-three years old, Rex built and sold his first company called ‘Resulte Universal,’ an IT services business. It grew to be worth about thirty million dollars! But he didn’t start off with a SaaS product, instead, he built his way up and got used to what it was like building more traditional companies. SaaS is a very complex and intimidating market, so starting off in that industry may be, whilst brave, very risky.
“My background is, I did build several other types of companies before I got into SaaS, and those experiences really helped me with it. And you’re right, SaaS can be quite a bit more complex, and the runway to build these SaaS companies needs to be quite a bit longer.”
Looking for a Problem to Solve: Do it Yourself!
When Rex was building one of his service businesses, he continually ran into the problem of lost equipment. Despite using one of the most widely used accounting systems in the world, it seemed to be a problem that a lot of others were having. When he looked into it, he found that this was a common issue a lot of people were having and that the real problem lay within the business model. So what did he do? He took it upon himself to fix it, and thus, Asset Panda was born.
“I had built up several service businesses and as I was building one of them I ran into a problem, and the problem was lost equipment. And we were using one of the most ubiquitous accounting systems in the world with Quickbooks, and it had a fixed asset ledger and that’s where we were supposed to track our fixed assets, but we continually lost equipment.”
Mindmap Your Ideas
When starting your business, before really committing to an idea, write it all down, whether that be through a mindmap or notes, get it all down on paper and try to make connections to things in the industry. Eventually, you will figure out where the gap in the market lies, and your idea for your business will come to the forefront, all the pieces falling into place.
“In any business, if you stick at something long enough and you’re gritty enough, you’ll eventually overturn questions and get some answers.”
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Alex Levin, Co-Founder and CEO of Regal.io, an outbound phone and SMS sales solution built to drive more conversations with customers and encourage growth. He is also currently a Partner at Blue Trail Partners. Previously, he was the SVP of Growth at Handy HQ and the Director of Global Sales & Marketing at Titan Steel Corporation.
They delve into what it was like moving from B2C and into B2B SaaS, why raising money from outsiders may actually be a bad idea, why timing can make or break your business, and why you should not let it get to you just because things will go wrong.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Alex Levin
About Dan: Alex Levin is the Co-Founder and CEO of Regal.io, an outbound phone and SMS sales solution built to drive more conversations with customers and encourage growth. He is also currently a Partner at Blue Trail Partners. Previously he was the SVP of Growth at Handy HQ and the Director of Global Sales & Marketing at Titan Steel Corporation.
Alex on LinkedInRegal.io on LinkedInRegal.io’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
Moving from B2C to B2B SaaSBringing the human being back into businesses through SaaSFinding a team to build your SaaS productRaising money from outsiders: good or bad?Why timing can make or break your businessYour friends are not great customersWait until you find something that people are asking you forSometimes it’s not the wrong product, it might be the wrong customerNot everything will go right, but don’t let it put you offIt’s all about the day-to-day executionAnd more!
Key Takeaways:
From B2C to B2B SaaS
Alex talks all about how he originally worked in B2C, but when he was introduced to B2B SaaS, he realized that the business model is way better and encourages more revenue growth. He says that he and his business partner enjoyed creating startups and found that, when his original B2C company grew, they didn’t enjoy it as much. Eventually, he decided he wanted to become a founder, and they got quite lucky with the transition.
“Our whole career really had been B2C companies, we never really worked B2B. Eventually we had this idea for a B2B business and I wish ten years ago someone had tapped me on the shoulder and said ‘Forget B2C businesses, there’s this thing called B2B SaaS that’s the greatest business model ever,’ so I’m glad we made the switch.”
Finding a Team to Build Your SaaS Product
Alex and his Co-Founder weren’t programmers; they were product managers, so it was up to them to find engineers who could build their product. This meant they needed to know what they lacked and what customers actually wanted. By the time they were hiring, they knew exactly what it was they wanted and what they needed to build.
“We weren’t the ones that were going to build the product . What we found was it was our opportunity to really go and understand what we needed to build, what customers actually wanted to buy, so by the time we were hiring engineers it was very clear what we were going to build.”
Raising Money From Outsiders: Good or Bad?
One thing that gets overlooked when raising money for your business is this: once you’ve raised money from outsiders, it may breed some stagnation. You may find yourself stuck, or realizing that your business isn’t all what you thought it would be. This puts you in a rather tricky position, because you have to do something with that money. So, before raising money from others, make sure you’re absolutely certain your business idea is what you want.
“What people forget is, the second you raise money from outsiders, you’re stuck. People think of raising money as a good thing, but it’s not, because once you’ve raised that money you’re stuck for a couple of years trying to get that thing to work. It’s much better at the beginning to spend less money and use your own funds if you can, figure out if you’re convinced.”
Your Friends Are Not Good Customers
Whether you like it or not, your friends are not good early customers, because they will feel like they have to be nice to you, especially if you give them a product for free. Rather, you should aim to give your product to people who are more inclined to be honest with you. Alex argues that friends of friends are better, because you’re kind of connected to them but you don’t really know them.
“Your friends are probably not great early customers. The reason is that they want to be nice to you, especially if you don't make them pay for it, then they’re not going to tell you the truth that it’s terrible or something.”
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Andrew Butt, Founder and CEO of Enable, a software development company that helps manufacturers, distributors, and retailers take control of their rebate programs and turn them into an engine for growth. Prior to this, he was the Co-Founder & Managing Director of the E-Commerce Division at DCS Group (UK) Ltd, and the Co-Founder and Director at Enable Infomatrix.
Together, they get into what it’s like going from eighty to five hundred employees and how you cope with that as a CEO, when to stop being a remote SaaS business and move to an office, the difficulties of having such a strong niche, and the differences between fundraising in the UK and the US.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Andrew Butt
About Dan: Andrew Butt is the Founder and CEO of Enable, a software development company that helps manufacturers, distributors, and retailers take control of their rebate programs and turn them into an engine for growth. Prior to this, he was the Co-Founder & Managing Director of the E-Commerce Division at DCS Group (UK) Ltd and the Co-Founder and Director at Enable Infomatrix.
Andrew on LinkedInEnable on LinkedInEnable’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
How Enable helps financial professionals, buyers, and sellersCustomer expectations are at an all-time highMerging different skills to solve supply chain problemsBeing profitable from day oneWord of mouth and networking in order to attain customersWhen is it time to stop being completely remote?Having a unique edge as a businessRaising forty million dollars in the first yearHow to spend fundraised money wisely and deploy it effectivelyThe difference between being a CEO of 80 employees and having 500Key Takeaways:
A Brilliant Combination of Skills
Andrew and his Co-Founder both had a set of different skills that really complimented each other; Andrew was focused on the tech side while also having an interest in business, and his Co-Founder had an immense knowledge in supply chains, manufacturing, and how customers work. After noticing a technical disconnect between all three of those, they created Enable in order to make the supply chain processes easier!
“So [my Co-Founder] was a supply chain expert and understood distribution and also business, and then I was really the technical programming guy and I was building applications, building software, web applications in the early days. And I also had a real passion for business as well.”
Being Profitable From Day One!
In the UK, the typical approach when building a SaaS business is by starting small and then growing organically. Instead of straight up looking for an angel investor like so many other businesses, they chose to go the traditional, gradual route of funding the business. Once they started to build a product rather than just provide services, they started using the money they got from previous work as the funding source.
“Initially we were already providing services. We started the company together really as a service provider, and we were building custom software for companies and they were obviously paying us to do that. So, we were kind of profitable from virtually day one, which is a typical approach in the UK: start very small and grow organically.”
Searching for a US Investor
Enable’s goal when they moved to the US was to find an investor that understood what they were about—someone who had a deep understanding of their particular niche. Unfortunately, they learned that a lot of people they pitched to didn’t really understand their product. Eventually, they found someone and managed to raise forty million dollars in the first year, allowing them to build a team in the US and grow organically.
“It really took some visionary investors to see what we had and see through some of those strange kind of aspects and to realize this was a really good thing to invest in.”
From 80 to 500 Employees
When Enable made the move from the UK to the US, their team started to grow exponentially and soon went from 80 employees all the way to 500! The transitional period of this proved to be quite the challenge for Andrew. As time went on, they, fortunately, got used to it; it became much easier to manage and they quickly were able to figure out how to delegate tasks.
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Steve Benson, CEO of Badger Maps, a San Francisco based software company that enables field sales teams to manage their territory by combining Google Maps, data from their CRM, route optimization, schedule planning, and lead generation.
Steve is also the Founder and CEO of Badger Sales University, the Host of the ‘Outside Sales’ podcast, the President of Sales Hall of Fame, a LinkedIn Learning Instructor at LinkedIn, and a Field Sales Efficiency Expert at Sales Experts Channel.
They take a deep dive into the financial implications of starting a SaaS business and what to look for when searching for investors. They also delve into how to do research for your product, how to put the odds in your favor as a business, and what kind of game you want to play as a founder.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Steve Benson
About Steve: Steve Benson is the CEO of Badger Maps, a San Francisco based software company that enables field sales teams to manage their territory by combining Google Maps, data from their CRM, route optimization, schedule planning, and lead generation.
Steve is also the Founder and CEO of Badger Sales University, the Host of the ‘Outside Sales’ podcast, the President of Sales Hall of Fame, a LinkedIn Learning Instructor at LinkedIn, and a Field Sales Efficiency Expert at Sales Experts Channel.
Steve on LinkedInBadger Maps on LinkedInBadger Map’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
The purpose of Badger MapsWhy field salespeople’s results are trackedGet to know your user baseThe process of SaaS product fundingShould you use debt?Putting the odds in your favorWhat investors are looking for in a successful SaaS productShould you sell when your company grows larger?What game do you want to play as a founder?Key Takeaways:
Get to Know Your User Base
Badger maps was designed to make salespeople’s lives easier by planning their routes and figuring out the best ways to get somewhere in the most efficient way possible. Steve achieved this by speaking with multiple salespeople, figuring out what they needed and what the most common issues in their jobs were. By doing this, he wasn’t just trying to find out if his product was a good fit for the market, but was also creating his first generation of customers. You can find them on LinkedIn and ask specific questions without sounding salesy, and once they understand who you are and what you’re doing, you can start to ask if they’d be interested.
“I spoke with hundreds of people who were either the end user of the product, the manager of the end user of the product, the trainer, VP of sales - I spoke to a ton of them. That’s a really important thing to do I think, because you’re not just figuring out if this is a good fit for the market, but that becomes your lead generation for your first deals.”
Funding the Business
Steve was very lucky in the beginning of his career - he used to work at Google and had saved up quite a bit of money, so he had that side of the company sorted! But he needed to find three employees: an engineer, a product/general technologist, and a general business strategist. At first, he was paying only for those three but not himself, and after three years he eventually managed to get there. Starting a business is a risky game, but it worked out.
“Most people aren’t sophisticated enough to understand the risk of these things. If you were to ask someone what’s riskier: investing in a bank that’s in the news for being shaky or this startup. They’re probably going to say the bank because they’re in the news for being risky. It’s like, no no, the startup is way riskier.”
Be Careful About Getting Into Debt
A lot of startups will take out loans from bigger companies, and although Steve did this, he recommends that most people don’t, because at the end of the day you still have to pay it back. If your company doesn’t go the way you thought it would, then you’ll find yourself in a lot of trouble. He’s been quite clever about dipping in and out of debt, he’s made sure that he’s been earning enough to justify it and going to places that really understand SaaS. You can’t just go to the bank and ask for a loan as they won’t fully understand it.
“When you’re a startup, a lot of the debt products you can get are very expensive, and expensive debt products are very risky. Because the problem with debt is you have to pay it back and you’ve gotta pay it back on time or literally you lose your company.”
What Game Do You Want to Play as a Founder?
There are a lot of problems you could fix with the help of SaaS due to the abundance and acceleration of technology in the twenty-first century, but you have to ask yourself the following questions: what game are you going to play? How are you going to look for investors and make sure your business stays healthy, alive and well, and profitable? Some investors may want you to go in a different direction than what you planned, so you need to think about who you’re investing from and how much control you get over your business.
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Dan Fernandez, Co-Founder of SoStocked, the first and only customizable inventory management and forecasting software built for Amazon sellers by Amazon sellers. Not only that, but he is also the Co-Founder of Tomoson, a Board Member at Birdies4Brains, and is the lead consultant at WebBizIdeas.com!
They delve into how poker helped Dan become the entrepreneur he is today, how to manage the hiccups and struggles that come with running a business, and why the people you work with can make a massive difference to your business’ success. He also explains what the ‘three legged stool’ analogy is in business and why it’s so beneficial.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Dan Fernandez
About Dan: Dan Fernandez is the Co-Founder of SoStocked, the first and only customizable inventory management and forecasting software built for Amazon sellers by Amazon sellers. Not only that, but he is also the Co-Founder of Tomoson, a Board Member at Birdies4Brains, and is the lead consultant at WebBizIdeas.com!
Dan on LinkedInSoStocked on LinkedInSoStocked’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
The journey of a serial entrepreneur in SaaSHow poker helps you be a better business personStomaching the ebbs and flows of being an entrepreneurThe three legs of the business stoolDeveloping the architecture of your SaaS businessLearning to manage the hiccups and the development burnDon’t take on everything yourselfSurrounding yourself with people who can correct your shortcomingsKey Takeaways:
Can Poker Help You Become a Better Business Person?
Before Dan even started SoStocked he would play poker with his friends and feature in tournaments; when starting a business, it will always require some gambling, but he isn’t suggesting that’s all there is to business. Rather, it allowed him to learn how to stomach the unknown and face problems with confidence. He also argues that, if you really believe in something, you have to sometimes gamble on yourself - it’s all about risk, and the best entrepreneurs are risk takers.
“I think as an entrepreneur, you have to have the stomach for the unknown. You need to be able to know when to gamble. That’s not to say that being an entrepreneur you’re gambling all the time, but you’re taking the gamble on yourself. You are that pit in your stomach.”
Finding the Third Leg of the Stool
Every successful SaaS product has to have the three legs of the stool: a subject expert, an operations person, and a marketing professional. Without those, you’ll find yourself in a tricky situation. And this isn’t exclusive to just SaaS brands, it’s actually something that anyone in any business can learn from - those three legs will hold your business up and keep you balanced; the last thing you want is for it all to fall apart.
“Every SaaS product that I’ve had success with, I’ve had those three legs of the stool. What brought the odds in our favor was finding that subject expert that could truly articulate the hole in the market and then had passion enough to do social media, to go to conferences etc.”
How Long Can You Sustain the Development Burn?
Your business will require a lot of sustainability in how much development you can burn. You need to be able to balance as much as you can without fully burning out or exhausting yourself and your expenses. Dan points out that every SaaS product he’s been a part of has never stayed on budget, and that if you can plan for the hiccups, then you can move on and you’ll prove yourself.
“In SaaS, business, or whatever, if you can plan for the hiccup and it happens, then it doesn’t faze you. It’s very rare in SaaS that you’re breaking even; sometimes it’s a year or eighteen months of burning cash…but you’re seeing results and users sticking. The metrics can tell you that it’s working, it’s just that you’re waiting for that lag in the bank account to catch up.”
Don’t Do Everything Yourself
Dan says that most people burn themselves out when they try to take on all three legs of the stool. Trying to take on more than one intense role is almost a form of self-abuse and it will lead to blowing up in your face. You need to know your faults as well as what you’re good at; fill your business with people who can close the gaps of your weaknesses and compliment them - this is the best way to make sure everyone in your organization is an asset.
“SaaS is complex. Where I see a lot of people get burned out and overwhelmed is when they try to do all three legs of the stool themselves. I enjoyed having partners that I could laugh and cry with - that is the way I worked.”
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Indus Khaitan, CEO of Quolom, the best way to buy SaaS through the use of a simple card. Prior to this, he was the Chief of Growth at Chargebee, an Advisor at Sequoia Capital, the Senior Director of Product Management at Oracle, and the Co-Founder of Bitzer Mobile.
They discuss how Indus found the problem points of SaaS and marketing products, how to handle feedback rejection as a startup (as well as why timing is so important), and the best way to find new customers in different communities. They also take a deep dive into how difficult it can be to start an entirely new product with no one to compare against.
He is a very experienced individual and we’re lucky to have him as a guest.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Indust Khaitan
About Indus: Indus Khaitan is the CEO of Quolom, the best way to buy SaaS through the use of a simple card. Prior to this, he was the Chief of Growth at Chargebee, an Advisor at Sequoia Capital, the Senior Director of Product Management at Oracle, and the Co-Founder of Bitzer Mobile.
One of his past colleagues, Melanie Fortman, said: “Indus has been a great coach, mentor and inspiration to me at Chargebee. He challenges me to be creative, think out of the box, and continually learn.”
Indus on LinkedInQuolom on LinkedInQuolom’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
The straightforwardness of QuolomPicking out the problem points of industry dataFinding those first few customersTaking on feedback and handling rejectionDiscovering new methods of outreachAligning yourself with the customer’s problemsWhat to do when your product is almost too uniqueBalancing the investor’s and the customer’s needsKey Takeaways:
The Abuse of Sales and Marketing Tools
When starting Quolom, Indus was looking out for the problem points that plagued content and marketing tools. He noticed that businesses were using up to five products to do one job; he didn’t want to cancel these products out, he wanted to make sure the customers were happy with the product and that he could provide the best service for them. Such an overabundance of clashing products meant that they were being abused, and he wanted to mitigate that.
“Our job was to figure out how you, as a customer, can be the happiest user of the product, rather than having five overlapping tools and then canceling them properly at the end of the year.”
Searching LinkedIn for Customers and Handling Rejection
Indus didn’t have any CFO connections on LinkedIn when he first started Quolom, something which he thought would be a massive problem. However, through his own contacts he was given recommendations and immediately started connecting and building his network. All of them gave him the same feedback: the product was good, just not something that they’d use right now.
This, naturally, got Indus down a little. But after a few days, he went back to the drawing board and made it what it is today!
“So, the first version of the product only focused on tracking the usage [...] But what the tool does is, you have to be in the flow of money. How much money are we spending on products, and then tell me what to do.”
Search for Customers in New Places
There are more places than LinkedIn to find B2B and SaaS customers (despite what others might have you believe). If you scour the internet for communities on places like Twitter and Reddit, you’ll be able to find an abundance of new customers. These people might not even be customers, they might just help to inform you on how to alter your business. This can be extremely valuable for you to grow.
“We also looked at people who were complaining about software waste and software usage on either forums on Reddit, LinkedIn, or Twitter, and then we started doing an outreach. We also started looking at companies who were using some of these bigger tools.”
The Challenges of Starting a New Category
Being innovative and disruptive in an industry with a new category is an incredible thing - in fact, it’s encouraged. But there is a slight problem that you will face in your unique journey: the lack of competitors. On the surface, that sounds like a dream, right? Competitors can also be seen as a jumping off point, as someone to copy or imitate and figure out how to improve upon what they’re not doing so well at. With Quolom being so unique, this proved quite the issue for Indus.
“If you’re building something which is brand new in a brand new category, that’s a struggle. There is no competitor to go after; nobody can tell you ‘hey, go look at that competitor and copy them’. For us, SaaS spend management or procurement, it was an absolutely brand new category and we didn’t have anybody to look up to and say ‘oh, I want to be a better version of that’.”
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Scott Hurff, Founder and Chief Product Officer at Churnkey, a SaaS product that fixes every type of churn for you, supercharges all aspects of customer retention, and optimizes your company’s growth. They explore Scott's journey to founding and growing Churnkey, the differences between running a B2B versus a B2C SaaS company, and what every SaaS founder should do to scale a successful business.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Scott Hurff
About Scott: Scott Hurff is a product maker, designer, and writer. He is the Founder and Chief Product Officer at Churnkey, a SaaS product that fixes every type of churn for you, supercharges all aspects of customer retention, and optimizes your company’s growth. Before Churnkey, Scott was the Founding Designer and Head of Design at Casa, Director Of Product Design at Philosophie Group (now InfoBeans), and Product Manager and Lead Designer at Tinder.
He wrote Designing Products People Love, a book that highlights how product designers work at places like Twitter, Product Hunt, Facebook, and more. He is a keen writer who works on science fiction stories and is a member of the Sudowriters' writing group. In 2019, Scott graduated from the Taos Toolbox workshop.
Scott on LinkedInScott’s WebsiteChurnkey on LinkedInChurnkey’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
How does Churnkey handles retention for you?What can SaaS founders do to reduce their churn?The difference between running a B2B versus a B2C SaaS companyInsights for SaaS founders to succeed
Key Takeaways:
Cracking the Customer Churn Code
Reducing customer churn is a top priority for every company, particularly in the SaaS industry. To tackle this issue, start by identifying the customers who haven't paid for two months but are assumed to be interested in continuing their subscription. This step alone can reduce churn by twenty to forty percent.Additionally, launch a well-designed survey at the point of cancellation to understand why customers are leaving. It's crucial to ensure that the survey is discreet, thoughtful, and crafted to elicit valuable feedback.
To further decrease churn, consider implementing a cancel flow and regularly review as a team why customers are leaving on both the product and customer success sides. Make this an ongoing part of your routine and iterate as necessary to keep improving.
“De-stigmatize the notion that that data can't be helpful because it's biased, and I think you'll make some great gains.”
B2B Versus B2C
When running a B2B company, you develop a more personalized relationship with your customers compared to B2C, where the focus is on scaling. B2B companies concentrate on resolving specific problems at a more human level.Additionally, B2B SaaS companies typically have smaller and more proficient teams, while B2C companies tend to have a more pronounced separation and specialization of various functions as they grow.
However, some B2B founders make the mistake of adopting B2C practices that they believe would work similarly. This is not always the case. If you run a B2B company, your priority should be finding ways to connect with your customers as efficiently as possible.
“You have to go through the process and figure out what not to do. Take the wins and then go in and build something of your own and build it your own way.”
Wisdom for SaaS Founders
Be open to fundraising and showcasing your product. You won't know if it works if you don't try. Without trying, you won't know if it's effective and capable of scaling. Avoid assuming that your efforts are not good enough. Instead, consider it a motivation to drive you and your company forward. Going through the process can help in identifying your values, abilities, and limitations.“We didn't know if this was gonna work at scale. It's working now. And maybe there's that part of us that we don't want to be told that what we're doing is not good enough.”
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Daniel Fayle, Co-Founder of Chekkit, an all-in-one customer interaction software helping companies get more reviews, more social proof, message your website leads, and more! Prior to this, he was a Small Business Advisor at Scotiabank and was an Intern Analyst at Roynat Capital. One of his previous clients says he has “outstanding customer service skills,” and that it is “always a pleasure working with him and his team.”
They discuss how Chekkit succeeded despite Daniel’s lack of experience in tech; why a good business pitch is so vitally important; how reviews can be super polarizing; and how a small business can begin to expand globally. They also delve into why coming into an industry a little later can actually be a benefit more than a hindrance!
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Daniel Fayle
About Daniel: Daniel Fayle is the Co-Founder of Chekkit, an all-in-one customer interaction software helping companies get more reviews, more social proof, message your website leads and more! Prior to this, he was a Small Business Advisor at Scotiabank and was an Intern Analyst at Roynat Capital. One of his previous clients says he has “outstanding customer service skills,” and that it is “always a pleasure working with him and his team.”
Daniel on LinkedInChekkit on LinkedInChekkit’s WebsiteTopics we cover:
How Chekkit solves customer service problemsThe emergence of the Chekkit ideaNo background in tech? No worries!The importance of a good pitchThe polarizing nature of audience reviewsHow to find your customersGlobally expanding your brandThink through your business plan!Key Takeaways:
No Background in Tech? That’s Okay!
Daniel talks about how, when they first started Chekkit, he didn’t have much experience, if any, in tech, and neither did his co-founder! In fact, he started off in finance of all industries. They decided to make an app for fun, one that could look at the analytics of restaurants and bars, but it wasn’t until a little later on that they decided to build on that idea and create Chekkit. Later, they pitched the idea to investors, and the rest is history.
It just goes to show, you don’t always need a background in tech to create something great. Whilst it can certainly help, if you just believe in your product enough and are dedicated to making it work, you can make it happen.
“I have a finance background. I was a commercial banker - no background in tech, no education, no knowledge. Nothing! I was working up north at the time [...] I met one of my co-founder and he had no background, education or network in tech and software, and we were just extremely poor. We basically said ‘why don’t we just create an app for fun.’”
The Importance of a Good Pitch
When they first started Chekkit, they went door to door at different restaurants and bars, pitching their business idea to them. Their pitch was so good and useful for the customer reviewing aspect of businesses, they even managed to get a dental practice as a client, something which Daniel was surprised by. Afterall, he thought that hospitality businesses would make up all of their business, so finding out that there’s a need for Chekkit’s services in other industries was a pleasant revelation.
“I knew a friend that had a dental clinic and, us being new to the space and not really knowing, I didn’t really think of reviews as a big thing for other [industries], I just thought about restaurants and hospitality. But I pitched it to my friend and he was like ‘yeah, reviews are huge for us’, so that definitely caught us by surprise.”
The Polarization of Reviews
When trying to attain organic reviews for a business, they can be extremely polarizing. Most of the time, people will only leave reviews if they’ve had a negative experience; it has to be a really good experience for someone to go out of their way for a positive one. That’s where Chekkit comes in: it’s their job to encourage people who may not have had a five-star worthy experience, but still had a decent time, to leave reviews for businesses to get the recognition they deserve.
“Reviews are super polarizing if they’re just purely organic. Like, if a lot of people have a really bad experience, they’re going to leave you one star, and there’s gonna be a lot of people that have a really good experience that leave you a five star. But you’re missing that inbetween where a lot of people are still having good experiences, they just don’t think to review.”
The Global Expansion of Chekkit
When expanding their business outside of Canada, they found that the US and Australia were more in tune with the technologies available to them and recognised the problem in the customer service market. This made it a lot easier for them to get business and clients. However, if it wasn’t for their beginnings in the tougher environment of Canada, they’d probably have found it a lot harder.
There was one slight issue they had to iron out, though - due to the higher understanding of customer service issues around the world, it meant that there was far more competition. But this only drove them further to succeed, opening up more opportunities to learn from others! Sometimes, it’s best to come to a market later and help solve the same problem, but in a better way.
“Sometimes it pays dividends not to be the frontrunner in your space. There’s a lot of examples out there.”
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Episode Summary:
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Derek Osgood, Founder and CEO of Ignition, a collaborative hub to help launch teams dynamically plan, execute, and measure GTM processes. Derek is also a Fellow at On Deck, and was previously the Director of Product Marketing at Rippling and the Product Manager at Playstation.
They delve into the fundraising process that Ignition went through, when to commit to an idea you have, the thought that goes into choosing to co-found a company, and why you should try to get feedback from customers outside of your network. They also explore just how many times you have to scrap and remake your product until it is absolutely perfect.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Arsen Stepanyan
About Derek: In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Derek Osgood, Founder and CEO of Ignition, a collaborative hub to help launch teams dynamically plan, execute, and measure GTM processes. He is also a Fellow at On Deck, and was previously the Director of Product Marketing at Rippling and the Product Manager at Playstation.
A previous colleague described him as “the kind of manager who inspires you to come to work in the morning, and his creativity and energy flows to the rest of the team. He provided the vision and prioritization needed to do my best work, and the space and knowledge to learn and grow, and most importantly, I always felt empowered and supported by him.”
Derek on LinkedIn
Ignition on LinkedIn
Ignitions’s Website
Topics we cover:
The multiple problems that Ignition solvesThe bigger you get, the harder it getsThe fundraising process for IgnitionHow to know when to commit to an ideaDeciding to co-found a company with someoneScrapping ideas until you get the right oneThe evolutionary process of building a SaaS productFind customers outside of your networkWhy you should focus on refinement before anything elseKey Takeaways:
Taking Matters into Your Own Hands
Sometimes, after you’ve been using tools created by someone else and it still isn’t working, you may need to take matters into your own hands. Derek explains that, after having so many founders ask him what the best strategy when launching a product, and knowing that there was such bad or little information out there, he decided to prioritize the process and templates that he already made and built Ignition.
“I’ve launched hundreds of things. Every single time that I’ve had to build this process, I’ve had to hack it together with a bunch of tools that are not really built around the workflow that exists. It was never very efficient or effective, despite my best efforts to communicate.”
Discovering Surprise Investors!
Before even landing on the idea for Ignition, Derek quit his job to pursue starting a company, which meant he was able to go full time but lacked the money to fund his company. But investors will come when you least expect it; when Derek first created Ignition, they only had a few customers, but they were so impressed with the hub that they offered to invest in it. It was only then that they were able to start the real fundraising process, and the rest is history!
“We built a prototype and went and put it in front of a few customers who we had never met. A couple of them were excited enough to say ‘we’ll definitely buy this’ and also a couple of them offered to invest because they were so excited about the vision. That turned into us going out and kicking off an actual fundraising process.”
How to Know When to Commit to the Idea
You have to know when to commit to your business ideas. There’s absolutely no point in marrying one before you’re one hundred percent sure it’s the right choice. But how do you know when it’s the right choice? Well, it’s all about trial, error, and validation among those you put the product in front of. Oftentimes, you’ll know when you’ve struck gold, but it’s important to remember to stay level-headed and not get caught up in the excitement. Try to look at your business from an objective point of view.
“We weren’t fully like, ‘lets go make anything and whatever sticks, sticks’. We were a little married to the idea, but we said we weren’t fully committing to this thing until we’ve fully validated it. This isn’t just personal pain, this is also pain that other people are feeling.”
The Value of a Stranger’s Voice
In order to get the best feedback for your work, always try to test out the product with people outside of your network - this is far more important than you might think. When we show our work to the people we know, people who we’ve already developed relationships with, they are more inclined to tell us they like our work in hopes it’ll make us happy. Whilst this is a very nice thing to do, we need criticism and pointers from an objective point of view in order to grow and develop.
Strangers are honest with us. Derek himself says that, if he showed his work to people in his network, they’d likely be ‘too gentle’ and want to protect his feelings too much.
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Episode Summary:
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Arsen Stepanyan, Co-Founder and CEO of Orders.co, an online ordering suite which allows restaurants to offer food on every platform, or just the ones they prefer. Arsen is also a Board Member at BuildUp Bootcamp and is the Principal Chief Executive Officer at Aspire Vape Company. He claims he is “dedicated to offering solutions to the restaurant industry to streamline the ordering process and increase revenue”.
They discuss the interesting story behind the origin of Orders.co, why listening to your audience is more important than anything else, and the advantages of going door to door in your sales approach. They also talk about why every member of your team is integral to success and why you should follow your own pace.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Arsen Stepanyan
About Arsen: Arsen Stepanyan is the Co-Founder and CEO of Orders.co, an online ordering suite which allows restaurants to offer food on every platform, or just the ones they prefer. Arsen is also a Board Member at BuildUp Bootcamp and is the Principal Chief Executive Officer at Aspire Vape Company. He claims he is “dedicated to offering solutions to the restaurant industry to streamline the ordering process and increase revenue”
Arsen on LinkedInOrders.co on LinkedIn
Orders.co’s Website
Topics we cover:
Where the idea for Orders.co came fromThe importance of audience feedbackThe difficulties of running multiple companiesDealing with SaaS roadblocksDon’t jump ahead of yourselfAdvantages of going door to door salesTry not to limit yourself!Every team member is integral to the success of a companyKey Takeaways:
Product Quality and Audience Feedback
In any industry, no matter what your product or service is, you need to make sure you listen to your audience. You obviously rely on them to keep the business afloat, so you need to do everything in your power to make improvements and changes whenever and wherever they suggest it. This is something Arsen made sure to do when creating Orders.co, and as a result he was able to get more customers through referrals.
“When the customer is ordering a product, get the customer experience on the floor. When they receive the product, [ask them] what did they think about the product quality, and then ask if they’re happy enough to refer others.”
Don’t Do Too Much, Stay Humble and Take it Slow
Arsen explains that, when they first started the company, they were visiting about 30-40 expos per year, trying to get their name out there in the SaaS world. If there’s one thing he learned from this experience, it’s that you should not spend loads of money or go too big before you’re ready. Instead, you should take it slow and grow naturally in your own time. There’s no point in bragging about being the best if you’re not at all ready; go small and meet with your customers and listen to them!
“Don’t go too big; don’t spend too much money; don’t show that you are the best brand. It’s just about going small, and just meet with your customers. Meet with the people. Listen to them. Tell them you are here next to them, and if they have any concerns or they’re not happy, you are always here to talk with them.”
Going Door to Door
One thing that gets overlooked in the SaaS world is physically going to businesses and talking with them about your product or service. It’s a very traditional plan of action, one that can’t be replicated through any sort of technology. Arsen admits that, although he’s aware not all of his customers will stay with them for a year especially when the product wasn’t that perfect to begin with, going door to door and speaking with customers made a huge impact to Order.co.
“We’re not trying to do it for free, the customer has to pay something. The very first customer was a friend, but after that we were just doing sales; traditional door to door sales, just meeting with the customers and spending time with them.”
Every Team Member Is Integral
Arsen recalls a time when one of his team members fell ill with COVID and was stuck in the hospital for two weeks. During that time, there was a problem that only the sick member could fix, but of course there was no way to get him to help. As a result, they had to wait for him to recover before they could do anything, causing the platform to suffer, losing about half of their customers. It was difficult and no doubt exhausting, but they understood why the customers left – they were small and it was too big of an inconvenience.
But from great adversity comes great lessons. Arsen realizes now just how integral every team member is to the company since there will always be things you can’t fix yourself.
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Episode Summary:
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Richard White, CEO of Fathom, a free Zoom app that records, transcribes, and highlights the key moments from your Zoom calls so you can focus on the conversation instead of taking notes. He is also the Founder and was the CEO of UserVoice; currently, however, he is Chairman of the Board at the same company.
One of his previous colleagues, Jim Wright, has praised him for his approach to problem solving, “Rich is one of those developers who can see the whole picture and find a real world solution, not just a fix for a particular technical issue.”
They discuss how the conception of SaaS products are usually due to finding roadblocks in technology, what it’s like searching for investors, the amount of effort it takes to keep an audience’s attention, and how Fathom became a Zoom native app and if they have any plans to expand outside of it.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Richard White
About Jon: Richard White is the CEO of Fathom, a free Zoom app that records, transcribes, and highlights the key moments from your Zoom calls so you can focus on the conversation instead of taking notes. He is also the Founder and was the CEO of UserVoice; currently, however, he is Chairman of the Board at the same company.
Richard on LinkedIn
Fathom on LinkedIn
Fathom’s Website
Topics we cover:
Why Fathom came at the perfect timeUnderstanding exactly what users wantSearching far-and-wide for investorsBuilding a solid SaaS team and product When are you ready to launch your product?Trying to keep the audience’s attentionThe high standards of making something easy and memorableHow Fathom became a Zoom native appPlans to expand outside of ZoomKey Takeaways:
The Difference Between Hearing and Listening to Your Customers
Fathom was created for people like Richard, who have a lot of meetings on Zoom, yet struggle to take notes at the same time. Ever since the pandemic, people have been faced with this issue, and after researching into the user experience, Richard came up with the idea for Fathom, an app which takes important notes from zoom meetings so you don’t have to.
Understanding what users want and need is a skill; it’s something you have to train yourself to look out for. Pay attention to how your customers are speaking, how they’re asking questions, what specific words are they using? It’s only because of this ability that Fathom was able to exist in the first place.
Searching Far-and-Wide for Investors
Since its conception, Fathom has managed to raise about six million dollars in investments; a million of that money is from the users themselves. It started off by asking friends and family and putting on events, but they also wanted to try to reach people with connections to Zoom, considering it was the platform they were focused on. If they could find people there to invest, then they could not only raise money, but they could build solid and professional relationships. They also did a WeFunder campaign which allowed users to donate and invest.
“I’ve found that, when you get people putting their own skin in the game - angels and our users - you just get a very different kind of relationship and engagement.”
Houston, We’re Ready for Takeoff…
You have to make sure that before you launch your SaaS product, everything is ready. Richard explains, although they had a rough version of Fathom ready within the first few months, it took about a year before they could confidently release it into the world. In fact, a lot of the time, even when your product is in the early stages of its existence, warts and all, it’s easy to see what it could evolve into, and if you can envision that end goal, then you can easily tolerate some of the bugs at the beginning.
“If you can create something that solves a problem you have, and make sure there’s a big market for that problem, it’s such a hack. I had such high conviction for the product at an early stage because it’s like, I’m willing to tolerate some of the bugs at the beginning, we just needed to polish it up.”
Keeping the Audience’s Attention
When creating anything - not just a SaaS platform - that involves grabbing an audience’s attention, you need to be able to keep them interested for at least the first five minutes, otherwise your product just won’t work or take off. Once you’ve lost a customer’s attention and focus, it’s exceedingly hard to get it back, so make sure your product performs the best it possibly can when showcasing it.
Try to take a step back from your work and be honest with yourself about it, be subjective - ask yourself what you need to alter, what needs to go and what needs to be added. This way, you’re more likely to keep the audience engaged and interested.
“You learn a lot of things about how hard it is to get people’s attention. We actually started off as a desktop app, then a zoom app, but we moved back to being a desktop app because we saw that in the zoom app, people would start a meeting and then they’d have to remember to turn on Fathom [...] It’s very easy to be forgotten, especially when you’re trying to change people’s habits and behaviors.”
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Episode Summary:
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Jon Darbyshire, CEO of SmartSuite, a platform that helps coordinate workflow across all levels of an organization to ensure that team members have the information they need to accomplish their best work. Previously, he was the Executive Chairman at The Archer Foundation. He is also the Founder and the previous CEO of Archer Integrated Risk Management.
They dive head first into how long it can take to build a SaaS product, why SmartSuite chose to have no paid marketing, why you need to keep a transparent and trusting relationship with your customers, and the importance of building a community within a SaaS business. Jon also talks about his unique and fortunate journey into building SmartSuite, delving into why it needed to be perfect before even announcing it.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Jon Darbyshire
About Jon: Jon Darbyshire is the CEO of SmartSuite, a platform that helps coordinate workflow across all levels of an organization to ensure that team members have the information they need to accomplish their best work. Previously, he was the Executive Chairman at The Archer Foundation. He is also the Founder and the previous CEO of Archer Integrated Risk Management.
A previous colleague at Archer described him as “Visionary, disciplined, focused, family, mentor. These are terms that come to mind when I reflect on my time working for Jon at Archer.”
Jon on LinkedIn
SmartSuite on LinkedIn
SmartSuite’s Website
Topics we cover:
How SmartSuite helps businesses run their workloadThe long, drawn-out time frame of building a SaaS productWhy SmartSuite chose to have no paid marketingBuilding a SaaS community The importance of transparency with your customersManaging workloadThe democratic process for SmartSuite featuresTaking accountability for bad decisionsKey Takeaways:
Rome Wasn’t Built in a Day
Any sort of product or service, especially in SaaS, will take an incredibly long time to build and polish. Jon acknowledges this, claiming that SmartSuite took about two years to complete, even with the help of a hundred different developers. But don’t let this long, drawn-out time frame discourage you from your craft. Afterall, Rome wasn’t built in a day; in fact, most disruptive and revolutionary creations weren’t.
“We did something that was quite unique: we hired about a hundred developers, and we spent the next two years building the core platform before we made any announcements about what the company would do [...] I was in a unique position in that I had the funding personally to be able to build the company without needing to raise any capital.”
The Power of Just a Few LinkedIn Posts
When Jon first released SmartSuite into the world, he chose not to do any sort of paid marketing. Instead, he opted to make just a few LinkedIn posts to get people talking. As they gained traction and a few customers came in, they were able to engage with them more and find out what worked for them. Now, much larger companies are coming in, proving that you don’t always need to rely on paid marketing for the success of your platform.
That being said, Jon admits that they will indulge in paid marketing and invest in a marketing team eventually, but right now they have no use for it.
“We kinda went into a beta programme, but we didn’t announce that. The only thing we did was we turned on our website. We have no paid marketing—even to this point—we just made some announcements on LinkedIn. And our first customer came in, a single user in the Northeast, and that’s how it all started.”
Community: A Core Part of the SaaS DNA
A core part of SaaS DNA is community. Jon talks about how, at SmartSuite, this is definitely put into consideration. With so many people working to make a product great, it’s important that there is a sense of community where employees feel as though they can share ideas with each other without being judged.
This doesn’t just apply to employees, as they also have a ‘User Group Chairman’: a customer that speaks on behalf of other customers. It’s extremely good practice to make sure you listen to your customers just as much as you would your team; they are the ones who use your product, you need to make sure you know what they think.
“We feel that is our number one feature as a company. We provide a great product with a lot of features, but people love the community aspect of getting to know each other, sharing their successes and sometimes failures, what’s working and what’s not, and just building relationships. That’s a core part of what we’re trying to do.”
The Importance of Transparency with Your Customers
A lot of the time, businesses don’t tend to communicate with their customers about what they’re working on and the roadmap of the product. And sometimes, even when a customer reaches out with a problem, they might not get a response until the next day, or even a couple of days later. It’s incredibly important to Jon and the SmartSuite team that they communicate transparently with their user-base so that they’re always kept in the loop which is a surefire way to keep up customer loyalty and trust.
“It makes it more fun, too. They’re getting to know our customers and interacting with them in a way that makes it more personal, so they don’t just know them as customers, they get to know them as people. And that’s helping build the culture of our company.”
Be Prepared for the Workload
When you’re first getting started with your SaaS platform, it’s easy to forget just how much work you will one day have to manage, should your company blow up. Jon talks about how his team, having already been worn out from just how much time and effort they were putting into the product, were shocked when they realized how many customers they were suddenly attracting, transitioning from five thousand customers to a hundred thousand!
Because of this, they had to make sure they were prepared for more workload and stay at the top of their game. And overtime, they dealt with it and have a good grip on the situation.
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil speaks with Kaumana Rindlisbacher, Co-Founder and COO of Pickle, a platform designed to help companies of any size understand their customer conversations and strengthen their relationship by transcribing audio into text. He is also a member of the Revenue Collective, RevGenius, and Modern Sales Pros. Prior to this, he was an Enterprise Account Executive at EasyPost.
They discuss Kaumana’s atypical journey into becoming a founder, how COVID influenced the creation and popularity of Pickle, why he quit his job in order to pursue his vision, and the importance of having a distraction free space. Not only that, but they also delve into why having a sales-driven business model works so well for them.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Kaumana Rindlisbacher
Kaumana Rindlisbacher is the Co-Founder and COO of Pickle, a platform designed to help companies of any size understand their customer conversations and strengthen their relationship by transcribing audio into text. He is also a member of the Revenue Collective, RevGenius, and Modern Sales Pros. Prior to this, he was an Enterprise Account Executive at EasyPost.
A previous colleague of his, Carlos Diamond, said about him, “Kaumana is one of the hardest workers I have ever met. He comes in early and stays late. Not only is he working hard to reach his goals, but he also goes out of his way to help others too. Kaumana is the type of worker you want on your team no matter what project you are a part of. He will learn what is required of him and find success whatever it takes”
Kaumana on LinkedIn
Kaumana on Twitter
Pickle on LinkedIn
Pickle’s Website
Topics we cover:
How Pickle utilises artificial intelligence for high quality transcriptionsKaumana’s atypical journey into becoming a founderCOVID’s influence over the creation of PickleQuitting their jobs and funding the businessDiversifying your content and marketingThe importance of having a good sales teamPickle’s ambiguous product market fitKey Takeaways:
From Salesperson to Founder: Kaumana’s aTypical Journey
Kaumana says it’s not all that common to see salespeople become business founders, especially in SaaS. It’s for that reason that Kaumana’s journey was an atypical one, especially considering his dense background in sales. But this gave him a unique perspective as a founder, enabling him not to fall into traps his peers do.
“A lot of people think that if you build it, they will come, especially first time founders,” he says. “They focus heavily on product, and they think ‘if we just focus on product, the rest will take care of itself. That’s not the case. You have to be able to sell”
“This Call Will be Monitored for Quality and Training Purposes”
We’ve all heard those words spoken into our ears the minute you call a business or a call center. But how much of those calls are actually monitored and reviewed? According to Kaumana, even the biggest corporations only review about two percent of their customer phone calls.
This is how Pickle came to be, and because of the pandemic and the uprising of Zoom calls, they were able to really focus in on and transcribe different conversations, making a name for themselves and really coming into their own.
The Fundraising Process: All in or Nothing
Kaumana says that Pickle wasn’t something they just did as a side project. In fact, they were so determined and enthusiastic about the idea that they quit their jobs to pursue it and rented an office space. However, this isn’t to say that you should do the exact same thing. After all, it is a very risky move to pull off, and if it wasn’t for how lucky they were with the fundraising, it could have gone very wrong.
But luckily, it didn’t! Their passion for the project and their willingness to learn elevated them to heights beyond what they could have imagined. If you have a project that you’re passionate about, or a business idea you’re certain will work, you should follow through with it! You never know what could happen!
The Importance of a Distraction-Free Space
There is something unique about working in an office compared to working from home; we are social creatures, and being able to see and talk to people in the flesh can make a huge difference in our outlook. While it may seem like SaaS companies don’t need to meet in person, you’d be surprised just how much of a difference it can make to your morale.
While remote working has revolutionized the way we work, Kaumana points out just how important it was for him and his co-founder to have a distraction-free place to work while building their company. As they both had infant children at the time, they needed to be able to meet up and work in order for the business to be successful.
A Sales-Driven SaaS Business Model
The secret to building a successful sales-driven business model is actually quite simple: content. Produce lots of good, diversified content with a focus on SEO and creativity. Think about all the different routes you could take in terms of marketing: blog posts, podcasts, LinkedIn posts, website SEO - there’s so many tools at your disposal, just waiting to be used!
“A lot of our buyers are on LinkedIn, so he’s posting on LinkedIn everyday, doing a blogpost every week. We’re releasing a podcast every week - forty episodes at this point. So we’re generating content, working on SEO, driving people to us on LinkedIn, driving people to the website.”
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Episode Summary:
In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Phil is joined by Ran Aroussi, Founder of Tradologics, a cloud based platform which helps traders, investors, and firms across the world develop, test, run, and scale their programmatic trading strategies. Previously, he was a special project manager at Panda Trading Systems, and Founder of Tuki Media and Tuki Apps.
They dive headfirst into the luck involved with funding your SaaS platform; just how long it takes to finish your product; the process of finding users; and why they call their customers ‘Prosumers’. They also touch on how the Ukrainian conflict has affected their job, as well as making sure you’ll have the right tools for the job.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Ran Aroussi
About Ran: Ran Aroussi is the Founder of Tradologics, a cloud based platform which helps traders, investors, and firms across the world develop, test, run, and scale their programmatic trading strategies. Previously, he was a special project manager at Panda Trading Systems, and Founder of Tuki Media and Tuki Apps.
When asked about Ran, one of his colleagues said, ‘If talent and creativity is what you are looking for then Ran is THE man for it. Always with a smile, Ran is a true professional in his field!’
Ran on LinkedIn
Ran on Twitter
Tradologics on LinkedIn
Tradologic’s Website
Topics we cover:
How Tradology removes the problematic barriers in tradingWhy they call their clientele the ‘prosumers’Ran’s journey to where he is nowThe peaks and troughs of funding your SaaS platformHow the Ukrainian conflict has affected their businessThe length of time it took to get the first version of Tradology finishedThe process in finding your usersWill your work ever be truly over?Make sure you have the right tools for the jobKey Takeaways:
How Tradology Removes the Problematic Barriers in Trading
Ran says that Tradology is solving a ‘myriad’ of problems in trading, removing most of the frivolous, technical barriers that stand in the way of people who are trying to generate a solid trading strategy in stock or crypto.
But who is the target audience for this? Well, Ran explains that they made the choice to refer to their customers as ‘prosumers’, an in-between market of the smaller professional traders (fund managers and investment advisors) and some of the most prestigious retail traders (people who trade for a living with their own money).
With such an innovative platform, Tradologics is bound to expand their audience and reach more traders across the globe.
Funding Your SaaS Platform
Funding anything, whether it be your SaaS platform, a business startup, or even something like an independent movie - it can take time, effort, and a lot (really, a lot) of convincing. But don’t let that put you off! If your idea and platform is innovative and brilliant, if you are passionate enough about it, then you will find someone who will invest.
Ran explains that, before Tradologics, he had no experience in trying to raise money for a project. It was only through some stroke of pure luck that he managed to grab the attention of and hit it off with the first investor he contacted. He acknowledges, though, that this really isn’t the norm, and that it was a very good start. It wasn’t until the second round of seeking investors when reality hit and it began to take much more time.
“In the beginning, they invest in the idea. Later they invest in the team or the product - whatever it is. And then, as you progress, it starts to get more difficult [...] It either becomes a massive success, or a bust.”
The Unfathomable Impact of the Russo-Ukrainian War on Business
Ran has a fair few colleagues in Ukraine, and the war has, just as it has for a lot of people, affected the way business is done. Fifty percent of the time, daily meetings are constantly shifted to different times, and all too often they have no electricity or an internet connection. He recalls a time when during one meeting, a colleague was surrounded by candlelight with poor internet quality.
It’s safe to say that we all have the utmost admiration for those continuing to work and making a living through the Ukrainian conflict, and we wish them well.
“They’re amazing, they truly are. It’s been a tricky road,” says Ran, wholeheartedly.
The Length of Time it Takes to Get a Product Done
The first version of Tradologics came into fruition after about six months, but Ran claims that the finished product took them around a year and a half. But remember, just because something is functional and working, it doesn’t mean that it’s the final ever version. No matter what you create in SaaS, no matter how talented a programmer you are, there will always be something to change and tweak further down the line.
You will, most likely, never be finished, and given all the possible delays and interruptions that will occlude your process, there is no telling how long it will truly take. Therefore, it’s important to have dedication, perseverance, and passion for what you’re doing, otherwise you will fall victim to giving up.
The Process of Finding Your Users
Ran admits that he was very fortunate when finding his ‘prosumers’. It was thanks to his blog (which he also admits he hasn’t updated in a while) that people saw what his idea was and signed up to a waiting list. He asked people to fill out surveys and answer questions so that they could make Tradalogics the best it could be.
Now, they have about 20,000 people on the waiting-list, an impressive number for a business with no advertising!
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In this episode of SaaS Origin Stories, Niclas Lilja, CEO of Yoonium, joins host Phil Alves to discuss a wide range of topics, from keeping your Minimum Viable Product (MVP) simple to early growth strategies and scaling outwards from a narrow customer profile.
Niclas Lilja is the Founder and CEO of Younium, an automation subscription management SaaS. He has over seventeen years of experience in product development, management, and marketing.
Guest at a Glance:
Name: Niclas Lilja
What he Does: Niclas Lilja is the Founder and CEO of Younium. He has led production and marketing teams in his previous roles. Younium is a six-year-old startup founded in Stockholm, Sweden.
Niclas Lilja on LinkedInYounium on LinkedInNiclas’s Book Recommendation Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap While Others Don’t by Jim Collins
Topics we cover:
Birthing a SaasKeeping a Tight Control on MVP ScopeEarly Growth StrategiesCatering to a Niche and Scaling Outwards
Highlights:
The Birth of an Idea and Validating it
Niclas shares how the idea of automating subscription management stems from one of his tasks in a previous role where, among other things, he was responsible for managing the subscription portfolio of the company. It was a tedious, time-consuming, and frustrating manual process. The desire to automate subscription management was the birth of his startup idea. Niclas shared his idea with his peers in other companies and discovered that the desire was universal.
“Using your peers in other companies as a sounding board is the initial first-hand research”.
Keep Your MVP Light on Design and Engineering
When designing the MVP, keep a tunnel vision of your first three customers' needs; don’t think of serving 10,000 customers. Above all, you need to make sure that the product works. The way to do this is to keep a tight rein on design and engineering complexities and focus on the product's core solution.
“We went for a basic and pragmatic first version; we went with something we knew while avoiding new things initially”.
Early Growth Strategies
Niclas started promoting the initial version at B2B industry meetups. The approach helped get in front of potential clients and build a contact network. It was also valuable for getting feedback in real-time. Attending meetups ran parallel to hard cold-calling to identify new leads.
“In the beginning, you don’t need 100 meetings. You only need to catch a few relevant prospects in a friendly environment”.
Go Vertical Before Branching out Horizontally
Niclas feels it was smart to identify a target niche in the B2B space and develop a product for it. He followed the same logic in his GTM strategy. The product evolved with vertical growth in the niche before broadening the scope of the ideal customer profile. The ensuing growth was more stable without the constant effort of trying to be everything to everyone.
“If we hadn’t been hard about a granular definition of our ICP, we might not have been here today”. - もっと表示する
