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On the podcast I talk with Joseph about what’s currently working for apps on TikTok, how to create viral content, why you should try working with influencers who don’t have many followers.
Key Takeaways:
🔍 Getting noticed: How TikTok’s algorithm amplifies reach - TikTok’s “For You Page” prioritizes engaging content over follower count, so apps can go viral without a big audience.
📈 E-commerce strategies that work for apps on TikTok - E-commerce brands have mastered quick, punchy content on TikTok, and app marketers can adopt similar tactics. Short tutorials, “top 5” lists, and problem-solution demos grab attention fast and build trust.
🚀 Adding viral-ready app features for growth loops - Viral-ready features, like progress trackers or custom shareable visuals, give users a reason to promote the app. Highlighting milestones, achievements, or unique app insights adds a built-in social layer that drives organic growth.
📝 Think like a TikTok producer, not a consumer - Scroll with intention. Save top content by category to keep your ideas fresh and aligned with TikTok trends.
🧪 Testing app ideas and features on TikTok - Test app ideas and features on TikTok with waitlists and concept marketing to validate user interest before building.
About Joseph Choi
👨💼 Founder of the Viral App Founders Community, with a background in e-commerce marketing and a keen focus on helping app developers go viral, especially through innovative approaches on TikTok.📈 Joseph has a deep understanding of viral marketing and influencer strategies, emphasizing the value of working with “micro-influencers” or creators with smaller followings who often drive authentic engagement.
💡 "On TikTok, it’s not about having a huge follower count; it’s about connecting with users through genuine, engaging content. Even a new account can achieve millions of views with the right approach."
👋 Follow Joseph on X → https://x.com/JosephKChoi
🗣️ Register for the upcoming webinar with Joseph.
Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co
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• Sub Club: https://x.com/SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[5:12] Leverage with TikTok: Joseph explains why TikTok’s unique “For You” page allows even new accounts to reach massive audiences without needing followers.
[11:35] Influencer shift: Why working with micro-influencers, or creators with smaller followings, can lead to higher engagement and more authentic content for apps.
[18:43] TikTok Shop revolution: Joseph dives into how TikTok Shop’s affiliate model has changed the game for e-commerce, allowing products to reach audiences quickly with creator-driven content.
[24:58] Crafting a viral hook: Apps that create emotional, relatable hooks gain traction, especially when leveraging TikTok’s algorithm to amplify visually appealing content.
[32:12] Power of authenticity: How TikTok users value authenticity over polished content and what that means for brands looking to grow on the platform.
[39:47] AI and content quality: Joseph discusses the intersection of TikTok’s AI and quality content, stressing that no algorithm trick beats a strong story and engaging format.
[45:09] Effective CTAs on TikTok: Best practices for call-to-actions on TikTok, focusing on subtle prompts over traditional “link in bio” strategies.
[53:20] Content inspiration: Joseph’s method of tracking viral content trends and adapting successful formats to keep app marketing fresh and engaging. -
On the podcast, we talk with Ryan from Pray.com about the risk of ad creative concentration, how to reach older, high-value demographics, and why the ultimate KPI is revenue.
Key Takeaways:
🛠️ A unified roadmap eliminates silos - Operating with one shared roadmap ensures alignment across product, marketing, and engineering, promoting collaboration and agility.
💡 Monetization might require more than just subscriptions - Post-IDFA, blending subscriptions with ads and one-time purchases maximizes revenue and reaches non-subscribers.
📺 TV and radio ads still build trust - Older audiences trust TV more than digital ads. A diversified media mix and real-time tracking can make these channels highly effective.
📊 Creative testing prevents costly surprises - Diversifying creative assets across platforms reduces risk and ensures consistent ad performance, even when policies change.
🎯 Empathy boosts customer loyalty in niche markets - High-touch, personal responses to customer feedback—especially in sensitive sectors—can build trust and long-term loyalty.
About Ryan Beck
👨💻 Co-founder and CTO at Pray.com — an app with a mission to grow faith, cultivate community, and leave a legacy of helping others through faith-based content and community-building features.
👥 Ryan Beck is driven by innovation in technology for the faith space, successfully navigating the complexities of building digital platforms that resonate with older, high-value demographics while maintaining exceptional retention rates.
💡 "We saw a space that was underserved, where technology could bridge the gap between faith organizations and their communities, making faith more accessible in the digital age.”
👋 LinkedIn
Resources
Pray.com
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
Follow us on X:Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co
Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:
[00:57] Digitizing faith: Pray.com’s mission to modernize faith organizations with digital platforms.
[02:49] Better together: The challenges and benefits of building a platform for diverse faiths with shared goals.
[04:47] Generation gap: Addressing tech adoption and user retention challenges with older demographics.
[06:47] Traditional values: How Pray.com used TV and radio ads to reach older, high-value users.
[09:16] Say your prayers: The devotional content that strengthened Pray.com’s user engagement and retention.
[11:52] Keeping the faith: Introducing subscription models without losing the trust of a faith-driven community.
[19:59] Lessons in diversification: The risks of relying too heavily on a single ad creative.
[31:08] Faith meets tech: Blending technology with spirituality to create accessible digital content for all.
[41:26] Data-driven decisions: How the Pray.com team optimized their TV and digital ad strategies for maximum impact. -
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On the podcast: effectively scaling support for an app, why the time to first response is so important, and why you should treat support more like a concierge experience.
Key Takeaways:
💡 Personalized customer support is a competitive advantage - Eli emphasizes that providing fast, personal responses to customers sets brands apart from competitors. Even in a world of increasing automation, building a concierge-like experience can boost customer loyalty.
🤖 AI and human support can work in harmony - Eli explains how Captions blends AI-driven automation with human agents, allowing the support team to focus on more complex customer needs while AI handles repetitive tasks, creating a seamless experience.
⏳ Speed matters: Time to first response is key - Captions prides itself on a 58-second average response time, which Eli believes is critical to keeping customers satisfied and preventing churn. Quick responses signal that the company is engaged and ready to help.📊 Building customers for life through proactive support - Eli shares Captions’ philosophy of nurturing “customers for life” by going beyond just resolving issues. Sharing customer success stories with the team helps build a culture focused on long-term user satisfaction.
🌐 Scaling with localization and 24/7 support - Captions serves users globally by providing 24/7 support and localized services, ensuring that customers in every market receive timely, effective assistance regardless of their language or region.
About Eli Winderbaum:👨💻 Head of Customer Experience at Captions, an AI-powered video creation and editing app designed to help users tell better stories through seamless video content.
👥 Eli is passionate about scaling customer support with a focus on personal, concierge-level experiences that build long-term customer loyalty, rather than simply deflecting inquiries with automation.
💡 "Even if we don't resolve their issue right away, providing a fast, empathetic response builds trust and shows our users that we're here to support them—turning a quick interaction into a lasting connection."
👋 LinkedInResources:
Captions websiteFollow us on X:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[3:18] Don’t just deflect: Why support isn’t just about reducing tickets—it’s about creating a concierge-like experience.
[8:26] Support as a moat: Great customer support can be your competitive edge, especially when users are comparing similar apps.
[12:15] Hiring right: How curiosity and embracing change are key traits for building a top-tier support team.
[16:44] The AI edge: Blending AI and human agents to enhance, not replace, the customer experience.
[21:22] Scaling globally: How Captions offers 24/7 support across different time zones and languages.
[27:50] Community roots: The role that platforms like Discord can play in early-stage customer feedback and feature development.
[34:10] Docs and AI: Keeping documentation up to date is crucial for effective AI-powered support.
[41:35] Turn feedback into features: Captions' approach to quickly implementing user feedback to create loyal customers. -
On the podcast: the rebound of consumer subscription valuations and investor interest, how to generate Net Revenue Retention in consumer, and why you should pinpoint where your app sits on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
Key Takeaways:
📈 The subscription app industry is rebounding in 2024 - After setbacks in 2022 and 2023, surviving companies are now leaner, more focused, and showing strong profitability and retention. This resurgence is reflected in both private transactions and public valuations, signaling positive momentum.
💡 Net Revenue Retention (NRR) is achievable in consumer apps - Top-performing apps boost NRR by stabilizing churn and driving revenue growth through price increases, family plans, and premium features. The key is delivering ongoing value to loyal users while maintaining strong retention.
🎯 Maslow's Hierarchy of Subscription Needs offers a roadmap for retention - Successful apps align with user passions by addressing needs like safety (e.g., Life360) or self-actualization (e.g., Calm). Integrating features like leaderboards and community functions deepens user engagement and fosters long-term loyalty.🛡 Platform threats like Apple's "Sherlocking" can be overcome with specialization - Apps that go deep in their verticals (e.g., Flo or AllTrails) offer premium, differentiated experiences that platform-native features can’t replicate. Innovation and specialization are key to thriving despite competition from OS-level features.
🚀 Flo’s success shows the power of retention and long-term engagement - Flo’s $200M raise and $1B+ valuation were driven by its freemium model and strong user retention across life stages. By building long-term relationships with users, Flo has positioned itself as a leader in the female health space.
About Eric Crowley👨💻 Technology investment banker and partner at GP Bullhound.
💵 Eric is passionate about providing advice and capital to consumer subscription software (CSS) businesses.
👋 LinkedInResources:
GP Bullhound website2024 Consumer Subscription Software (CSS) Report — GP BullhoundFollow us on X:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSub Club - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[4:32] The Rule of 40: A good rule of thumb for correlating your business’s trading value with your growth rate and profitability.
[9:10] Rising tide: Successful app businesses like Flo are part of a recent wave of mergers and acquisitions in the CSS industry.
[15:39] Land and expand: How consumer subscription services are improving net revenue retention (NRR) with their existing users.
[23:15] Sherlocked: The threat of Apple and Google releasing new platform features that compete with niche subscription apps.
[31:52] Law and order: How app business owners and investors are thinking about new regulations like the Digital Markets Act (DMA).
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On the podcast: The benefits of building something you personally care about, how to balance user feedback with product intuition, and why process, frameworks, and outside advice are often worth ignoring.
Key Takeaways:🚀 You don’t need complex processes to build a successful product
Building something meaningful doesn’t always require elaborate processes or formal business structures. With passion, a clear vision, and consistent execution, developers can create successful products without overcomplicating the journey.
🔄 A strong feedback loop with your community can drive product evolution
Engaging with an active user community creates a continuous feedback loop that helps developers iterate faster and build more relevant features. Listening to real users and balancing their input with your vision can transform a product into something that truly resonates.
📈 Pricing strategies require experimentation, not perfectionInitial pricing doesn’t need to be perfect. By experimenting with different price points over time, you can find a balance that works for your users. Significant price increases might not impact demand as much as you’d expect, giving you room to adjust and optimize without overthinking the starting point.
💡 Reactive development can lead to faster, more informed decisions
Acting quickly in response to persistent customer requests can help validate new features and insights faster. Instead of over-analyzing, shipping updates rapidly provides real-world feedback that guides better decision-making.
💸 Plan for risks when relying on third-party dependencies
Building heavily on a third-party API can expose you to unexpected changes in pricing or policies, potentially leading to unsustainable costs. Always evaluate the long-term stability and alignment of external platforms with your business goals to safeguard against disruption.
About Christian Selig
👨💻 Indie iOS developer and creator of the Apollo for Reddit app.
📱In addition to Apollo, Christian is also the creator of Juno, Pixel Pals, and a burgeoning YouTube channel.
👋 LinkedIn
David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club
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Episode Highlights[3:33] Origin story: Christian’s time at Apple and path to indie development.
[4:58] Positive feedback loop: How collecting user input from Reddit users helped shape Apollo.
[8:23] Go your own way: There’s no one-size-fits-all formula for creating a successful app.
[15:25] Passion project: Truly caring about what you’re building is one of the most important factors for success.
[26:48] Just say no: How to decline feature requests without alienating your users.
[30:10] Choose your own adventure: Understanding the venture-backed model versus indie development.
[36:30] End of the line: How and why Christian made the decision to shut down Apollo.
[47:40] Vision for the future: Christian’s post-Apollo projects: Juno, Pixel Pals, and YouTube. -
On the podcast: The impact of Apple Search Ads on organic search, how to save money on brand defense, and why ROAS shouldn’t be the only thing you optimize for.
Key Takeaways:
📊 Optimizing brand keyword bids can protect traffic and reduce costs
Running ads on brand keywords helps protect your traffic from competitors. By experimenting with lower bids, you can often maintain visibility while reducing costs, ensuring that you capture valuable traffic efficiently.
💸 Long-term ROAS is key for subscription app growth
Subscription apps should focus on the lifetime value (LTV) of users rather than just immediate ROAS. A campaign that breaks even over 365 days, rather than in the first week, can still be highly profitable if it contributes to stacking valuable subscriber cohorts that generate long-term revenue.
🔄 Broad match keywords can uncover valuable, unexpected search terms
Using broad match in Apple Search Ads can help discover new, high-intent keywords that might not have been initially considered. Regularly reviewing search term reports allows you to identify and capitalize on these hidden opportunities, expanding your app’s reach effectively.
🌍 Emerging markets offer untapped Apple Search Ads potential
As Apple expands its App Store presence in new regions, testing campaigns in countries like Brazil can lead to unexpected gains. Often, these markets have less competition and lower CPAs, making them fertile ground for scaling your app’s user base efficiently.
🛠️ Custom product pages can enhance campaign performance by targeting specific user segments
Leveraging custom product pages in Apple Search Ads allows you to tailor the App Store experience to specific keywords or user segments. This strategy can improve conversion rates by aligning the app's messaging and visuals with the search intent, making it especially useful during seasonal promotions or for targeting niche audiences.
About Guest👨💻 Data engineer and founder of Search Ads Optimization.
📢 Dilip helps app developers and marketers optimize their Apple Search Ads campaigns and increase their ROI using data-driven insights and automation.
👋 LinkedInFollow us on X:
David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club
Episode Highlights[5:35] Everybody’s changing: Trends for Apple Search Ads in 2024.
[11:09] Running (brand) defense: Experimenting with lower bids to save money while maintaining the level of impressions you want.
[19:16] Widening the search: How to leverage exact match and broad match keywords in Apple Search Ads.
[29:46] ‘Tis the season: How different times of year and holidays can affect CPA and ROI for Apple Search Ads campaigns.
[35:05] Playing the long game: Why subscription app developers should think about long-term — not short-term — return on ad spend (ROAS).
[48:16] Tipping the scales: How to scale Apple Search Ads.
[55:11] Custom-fit: How to implement custom product pages in your Apple Search Ads strategy.
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On the podcast: How to find success with web2app, the value (and challenges) of “owning the transaction”, and why avoiding app store fees isn’t a great reason to experiment with web2app, but might work out anyway.
Key Takeaways:💰 There’s much more to web2app than avoiding app store fees - In fact, looking at app store fees alone disregards the benefits of going via the app store, such as a substantially better conversion rate. Even if web acquisition is cheaper, those users are not worth the same to your business.
🔍 Better advantages of web2app to focus on include… Greater flexibility with attribution, access to new audiences (via organic and paid), and support for B2B use cases, among others.
💼 Use web2app for B2B billing - IAPs lack an elegant solution for B2B billing, whether it’s making it easy for individuals to expense purchases or offering teams a simple way to manage group billing.
🎯 Web2App allows for greater customization of user journeys - To fully capitalize on web funnels, tailor user journeys based on their entry point — for instance, a user coming from a branded Google search shouldn’t see the same journey as one coming from TikTok.
📈 Web2App is crucial for scaling up advertising - When ad campaigns plateau, running both web and app campaigns in parallel helps reach new audiences and convert users who might not engage with app install ads alone. This approach allows for better targeting and expands your overall reach.
About Guest:👨💻Independent subscription app growth consultant.
💸Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend.
👋LinkedIn
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Episode Highlights:[1:48] Web2App: The advantages of capturing users on the web before sending them to your app.
[6:51] One size doesn’t fit all: To reap the benefits of web2app, don’t just create one user experience on the web.
[11:30] Catch-22: The trade-offs of owning your customer transactions on the web versus paying app store fees.
[27:21] Learn by example: Who’s doing web2app well — and why it works for them.
[37:45] To B2B or not to B2B: How web2app helps B2B apps overcome the team billing and expensing challenges of in-app purchases.
[41:55] Owning it: Owning your transactions on the web can be a great way to reduce churn.
[44:34] World wide(er) web: Break through marketing plateaus by running both web and app ad campaigns in parallel.
[53:52] Cross-platformer: A web2app flow can help you go beyond the App Store and Google Play (to Roku, Apple TV, or the Amazon Appstore) to reach a wider audience.
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On the podcast: Implementing effective offline marketing campaigns for acquiring, engaging, and retaining paid subscribers in the app space.Key Takeaways:
📢 Look beyond digital channels for app growth. Consider offline advertising channels such as radio, linear TV, and podcasts to reach untapped demographics. These channels can help you target non-digital audiences, particularly older, higher-income users who can be more lucrative for subscription-based apps.
🔄 Use diverse methods to measure offline marketing. Utilize a variety of attribution methods, including how-did-you-hear-about-us surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling (MMM) to assess the effectiveness of offline channels. Accept the inherent ambiguity in measurement and use multiple data points to guide your strategy.
🎯 Embrace customer-centered metrics for better retention. Focus on creating proprietary metrics that align with your users’ goals rather than relying on standard industry metrics like daily active users. Babbel’s "learner success" metric prioritizes user progress and satisfaction, leading to higher retention rates.
🔍 Rethink freemium models to boost engagement and conversions. Freemium isn't always the best choice. Consider a hard paywall to increase user commitment and filter out less-engaged users. It’s about quality over quantity — attracting users who truly value your app.
🌐 Optimize both web and app experiences for user journeys. Users often start on the web before downloading your app. Ensure seamless transitions between platforms to improve user experience and conversion rates. Informative web experiences can ease app adoption.
About Guest
👨💻 SVP of Growth at Babbel.
📢 Steven and his team have taken a non-traditional approach to marketing Babbel: leveraging offline advertising channels like radio and TV, measuring the success of marketing efforts through a proprietary model, and tracking metrics like learner success instead of monthly active users.
👋 LinkedInFollow us on X:
David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Highlights
[0:44] There’s (more than) an app for that: Potential users aren’t just on the app stores, so shouldn’t your marketing campaigns be everywhere too?
[3:54] Radio star: How and why Babbel buys radio spots to advertise their subscription app.
[7:43] Attribution remix: Measuring the success of offline ads can be a challenge and requires a blend of data analysis methods (like user surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling).
[13:57] Freemium isn’t free: Why Babbel rejects the freemium model in favor of a hard paywall.
[18:15] The measure of success: Is Monthly Active Users (MAU) really a good metric to optimize for? (For some mission-driven companies like Babbel, no.)
[18:46] You get what you pay for: Paid subscriptions — especially premium tiers — often see higher levels of user engagement and retention.
[21:43] Web slinger: An optimized web experience can boost app downloads and paid conversions.
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On the podcast: How to make better decisions with data, the many pitfalls of collecting and interpreting data, and why the best executive dashboard is probably a hand-written weekly email.
Key Takeaways:
📝Balance data collection with business goals. Collecting all possible data can drown teams in noise and lead to compliance risks. Focus on collecting semantically important data that aligns with business goals and use cases to avoid unnecessary complexity and costs.💡Prevent exponential cost increases by structuring data early. Establishing a well-structured data collection and management process early on prevents costly modifications and adjustments later. Early alignment and thoughtful planning are crucial.
🔒 Maintain control over data collection to simplify compliance. Managing your own data collection processes can reduce legal and compliance challenges associated with third-party data processors. This is especially crucial for adhering to regulations like GDPR.
🔧Opt for off-the-shelf data solutions early on. Leveraging open-source or ready-made solutions can save time and resources. Maintain a clear evaluation structure for transitioning to custom solutions when needed, and accept changes in data collection methods to avoid outdated systems.
📊Simplified insights over complex dashboards. Dashboards can overwhelm executives with too much data. Instead, providing a succinct, focused summary of key insights through something as simple as a weekly email can be more effective for decision-making.
About Guest📈 Director of Data Products at News Corp.
💡With over 15 years of experience, Taylor is an expert in building and implementing effective data collection and analytics strategies — helping organizations like Disney+, Business Insider, and Deloitte collect the right data and turn it into actionable insights.
👋 LinkedIn
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Episode Highlights[3:44] Laying a foundation: Data collection is a lot like constructing a building — setting up the right framework from the beginning can save you a lot of time, effort, and money later.
[7:30] The Goldilocks zone: Collecting either too much or too little data is costly and can potentially have ramifications for data regulation and privacy laws.
[16:58] Information overload: Data is only helpful if you derive actionable information from it.
[20:33] Distilling data: What is a “data product” team? (And why might you need one?)
[26:13] Build vs. buy: Most companies should start with an off-the-shelf data collection solution instead of building something internally — then consider a switch later when the scale and financials make sense.
[33:45] What’s in a name? What you call specific data points and even your data collection system can be very important.
[42:11] Ditch the dashboard: Fancy data analytics dashboards need to be interpreted to be valuable — and without context, they can be misleading.
[51:27] Trix are for… kids?: How Taylor’s experience promoting the television show “Bluey” on Disney+ illustrates the incredible power of data analytics.
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On the podcast: How Mojo grew to over $1M in MRR, the most impactful pricing and paywall experiments, and why it’s important to choose complexity instead of just letting it happen.
Key Takeaways:
💪Bravery to pivot leads to long-term success. Early popularity can be deceiving. Without strong retention, it's time to pivot. Build features users love to evolve from a gimmick to a sustainable business.
🧱Make your paywall more prominent. Show your paywall during onboarding. Then, iterate on messaging, design, and pricing, focusing on one element at a time.
💲Pricing will always annoy someone. If no one complains, you’re underpricing. Be strategic about who you upset and how many people.
🤝Viral loops reduce the need for ads. Heavy ad spend can hide a lack of product-market fit. Build sharing and virality into your app first, then consider paid acquisition.
📈Choose complexity based on impact. Focus on your team’s strengths. Growth can be product-led or through, for example, paid acquisition, depending on what suits your team and app best.
About Guest
👨💻 CEO and co-founder of the video editing app Mojo.
🎬 Former GoPro employee and graduate of the Y Combinator accelerator program, Francescu and his team have built one of the top mobile apps for creating and editing social video content.
👋 LinkedIn
Connect with Francescu on X: https://x.com/Francescu More about Mojo: https://mojo-app.comPaul Graham’s essay “How To Do Great Work”: https://paulgraham.com/greatwork.html
Resources
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSub Club - @SubClubHQ
Follow us on X:
Episode Highlights
[4:27] AI + Mobile = ❤️: Why AI is probably the next mobile revolution.[6:16] Going Pro: How Francescu got his start building mobile subscription apps.
[7:44] Pivot… PIVOT: Despite early success with their augmented reality app, Francescu and his team had to shut it down and pivot to a new idea.
[15:12] Pricing and paywalls and packaging, oh my: Why you need to show your paywall during onboarding (and other monetization lessons Francescu learned building Mojo).
[27:42] Viral moments: Building social sharing features into your app could save you time and money on user acquisition.
[36:19] The product-led growth trap: Developing new product features isn’t always the key to growth.[41:15] Priced to annoy: If no one is mad about the cost of your app, your prices are probably too low.
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On the podcast: Quitting a job to build your own apps, returning to that job after failing to gain traction, and the inflection point that allowed our guest to finally quit for good.
Key Takeaways:
💡If your first side project doesn’t take off, try again — Reviving a lackluster launch can be tempting, but it might indicate a lack of demand. Instead, start fresh with a new idea and watch for early signs of product-market fit.
💰Invest more in your product once you have “pull” and a channel — Achieving early product-market fit and having a reliable acquisition channel allows you to focus on enhancing your product and experimenting with monetization strategies.
🔞Avoid relying solely on one acquisition channel — While a dependable early channel like ASO is crucial, it comes with risks outside your control. Diversify by investing in owned or paid channels to adapt to changes more effectively.
🧑💻Building in public offers numerous advantages — Developing your app publicly immerses you in a supportive community of indie developers, providing motivation, inspiration, and valuable feedback. However, it can also attract copycat competitors.
📈"Test higher prices" should be at the top of your to-do list — Raising your app’s price may seem risky, but many indie developers are overly cautious. A/B testing can help you safely explore the impact of different price points without significant customer backlash.
About Guest
👨💻 Independent app developer and creator of HabitKit and Liftbear.💡Sebastian began his career as a corporate web developer and became a full-time indie app developer after his habit-tracking app HabitKit took off.
👋 LinkedInFollow us on X:
David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub ClubEpisode Highlights
[1:04] Web versus mobile: What motivated Sebastian to switch from web to mobile app development.
[4:17] Free solo: Having a corporate day job might not let you stretch your creative muscles as much as building your own concepts.
[6:43] Drive: If you’re going to build an indie app or venture-backed startup, make sure it’s something you need to do.
[12:13] Risky business: The riskiness of leaving a full-time job to pursue an indie venture is different for everyone, depending on life stage, finances, and family obligations.
[16:39] Just ship it: Your first idea might not be great, but getting started will lead to new, better ideas.
[24:04] If at first you don’t succeed: Sometimes it’s better to give up on an idea that isn’t working so you can focus on one with better product-market fit.
[28:38] Doing the (side) hustle: Making the decision to keep your day job or fully commit to your side gig can be tough.
[34:45] Changing the channel: The app stores are a black box — it’s a good idea to invest in additional acquisition channels in case of algorithm changes.
[38:26] Building in public: Having a following on social media can be a great source of support and user loyalty outside of the app stores.
[45:00] Raising prices: Don’t be afraid to experiment with higher prices — many apps are leaving money on the table.
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On the podcast: Another Apple WWDC conference is in the books, and as usual, we’re excited to dig into everything Apple announced — and what it means for iOS developers and RevenueCat users. This year’s announcements covered everything from small quality-of-life enhancements in App Store Connect to the deprecation of some of Apple’s oldest in-app payments code.
Key Takeaways:🏪 StoreKit 1 is deprecated — After 15 years, the old and creaking first version of StoreKit is being deprecated by Apple. It’ll likely stick around as so many legacy apps still use it, but StoreKit 1 will not receive new updates and features.
🧠 Apple Intelligence — AI, rather than spelling the end of apps, could usher in a new era for apps. By building AI directly into the OS, connecting to services in a privacy-conscious way, Apple is opening up the potential of AI to all apps on the App Store.
👀 Vision Pro — While Vision Pro is now available in new markets and has received an update to VisionOS, it still feels like a “publicly available beta”, where the audience size remains small. Great for experimentation, but not a place to build a business (yet).
🧘 Quality-of-life improvements — Apple announced plenty of quality-of-life updates such as reduced screenshot requirements (now only one size per platform!), deep links for custom product pages, and a better experience for TestFlight users.
🏆 Win-back offers — A fourth offer type is now available, which applies to users whose subscriptions have lapsed, something which wasn’t easy before. Win-back offers also come with functionality we haven’t seen before with the other offer types.
🔏 AdAttributionKit — In what seems to be a successor to SKAN, Apple has announced a new privacy-focused ad attribution framework. AdAttributionKit better standardizes what existed before and comes with some new features (such as compatibility with third-party app stores).
About Hosts:
David Barnard is a Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and creator of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.
Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat and an expert on subscription apps and in-app purchases.
Charlie Chapman is a Developer Advocate at RevenueCat, an indie developer of apps like Dark Noise, and host of the Launched podcast.
Follow us on X:
David BarnardJacob EitingCharlie ChapmanRevenueCatSub Club
WWDC 2024 Session RecordingsSign-up Form to Get Notified About Advanced Commerce APIsApple Docs: What’s New
Resources:
Episode Highlights[2:00] Goodbye to an old friend: After 15 years, Apple’s StoreKit 1 (recently renamed “original API for in-app purchase”) has been deprecated.
[7:09] AI in the OS: With natural language abilities integrated at the OS level, Apple Intelligence could change how developers build and users interact with apps.
[16:42] Vision of the future: Apple Vision Pro 2.0 is a cool opportunity for developers to experiment with, but it’s still early days (and the addressable market is currently small).
[21:07] App Store Connect updates: Apple announced multiple quality-of life improvements for App Store Connect, including the ability to nominate your app to be featured on the App Store, new tools for generating marketing assets, deep links for custom product pages, an improved TestFlight user experience, and reduced screenshot requirements.
[39:04] Baby, come back: App Store Connect now lets you set up win-back offers, giving you a new way to re-engage lapsed subscribers and raise your LTV.
[49:03] Streamlined purchasing: Users can now complete their entire purchase within the App Store (or you can opt out of this feature if you’d rather direct users to the purchasing flow within your app).
[50:21] Advanced Commerce APIs: With complex SKU bundling and the ability to track digital content from multiple apps within the same developer account, the updated App Store will support more complex monetization use cases.
[52:49] SKAdNetwork 2.0?: Apple’s new AdAttributionKit, which feels like an upgraded successor to SKAdNetwork 1, provides enhanced reengagement capabilities (but only works with iOS 17.4 or later). -
On the podcast: What to do when there are no jobs to be done, how to build innovative features, and why copying Duolingo’s engagement strategy probably won’t work for your app.
Key Takeaways:🏆 To win over a mass market, you need to discover your app’s trigger. Apps serving niche audiences often have a well-defined job-to-be-done. Apps aiming for broad appeal, however, need to identify the triggers in a user’s daily life they will optimize for, in the absence of a specific user goal.
🪄 A framework for user retention. Apps that serve a mass audience need to work extra hard to engage and retain users. While niche apps might be inherently more retentive, they too would benefit from making the app: magical, relevant, intuitive in real-time, novel, and pleasurable.
🥅 Why you might not want to make “the Duolingo” of your niche. Apps like Duolingo try hard to shame you for not using them but make completing the day’s goal quick and easy. This approach may not be suitable for all long-term goals and doesn't work well when your aim is to retain as many users as possible.
🧑🏼🎨 Innovation isn’t accidental, it’s designed - here’s a framework to help:
Always align with your mission.Visualize the specific user you’re building this feature for.Specify the triggers you’re addressing.Know the job to be done for the user.Think through all of these areas when prioritizing your backlog.
👍🏼 Some features should be considered must-haves. Features that all your competitors have, fulfill a promise you sell users on, or whose absence will drive users to a competitor, or cause high levels of frustration if missing, should be prioritized. Deciding whether to prioritize these over innovative additions is up to you.
🦄 The other feature category to build for is “delighters.” While it’s difficult to know whether a feature will delight users, they typically drive retention, complete a known job in a delightful or magical way, and create “aha” or “wow” moments for the user.
About Guest👨💻 VP of Strategy and creator of core features at Welltory.
💡Asya leads her team to build thoughtful, mission-aligned features that delight 8+ million active users.
👋 LinkedIn
Follow us on Twitter
‣ David Barnard
‣ Jacob Eiting
‣ RevenueCat
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Episode Highlights[0:44] The Welltory story: How (and why) Jane Smorodnikova founded Welltory.
[6:55] Trigger happy: Some apps don’t have an obvious “job to be done.” When this happens, finding and nurturing the trigger for users to open your app is crucial.
[10:18] Making magic: Welltory’s framework for building a delightful, sticky app: Make it magical, make it relevant, make sense in real time, make it novel, make it pleasurable.
[21:14] The Duolingo of wellness apps?: Why Duolingo’s retention strategy wouldn’t work for Welltory.
[26:16] An innovation framework: When deciding what new features to build, align with your mission, know your personas, identify their triggers, and figure out what immediate and high-level problems you’re solving for them.
[37:11] Driving retention: The secret sauce for retaining users for the long term? Make your app experience magical and novel, provide relief, personalize and gamify the experience, and give users bragging rights and social sharing features.[40:32] Feature deal-breakers: Make sure you build both must-have and nice-to-have features to avoid frustrating users and prevent them from switching to a competitor app.
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On the podcast: How developers can launch and optimize their app listings on the Google Play Store. A conversation from Google I/O 2024 with Sarah Karam, director of Apps Partnerships at Google.
Key Takeaways:There are now more ways to optimize revenue with Google Play Commerce, such as installment subscriptions and automatically adjusted local pricing.
On Android, the leading apps diversify their monetization. Instead of offering just subscriptions, for example, they offer IAPs to cater for diverse user preferences. Tipping, for example, has seen huge growth.
The leading Android apps also adjust their overall approach to cater for the huge and diverse user base. Just replicating your iOS strategy will only serve a small fraction of potential customers. How can you serve someone on a $200 phone as well as a $2000 one?
“The consumer rarely buys what you think you sell” and understanding this can lead to secondary product-market fit, unlocking new growth. Stop thinking about your app in terms of the feature(s) it offers and more about what problem it solves.
About Guest
👨💻 Director of Google’s Apps Partnerships team.
🤖 Sarah is passionate about helping developers succeed on Google Play Store and the Android ecosystem.👋 LinkedIn
ResourcesGoogle Play Academy
Guidelines to Getting Featured on Google Play
Guides to Help Grow Your Business on Google Play
Google I/O 2024 Keynote
Engage SDK
Custom Store Listings
Google Play business community on X
Android Developer YouTube Channel
Episode Highlights:[3:57] Feature presentation: Getting your app featured on the Google Play Store can be great, but it isn’t the most important thing (and you still need to market your app to take advantage of being featured).
[8:46] Proactive engagement: Google’s newly announced Engage SDK (currently in developer preview) will surface apps at relevant times for users in the context they’re most likely to engage.
[13:53] Easier ways to pay (and get paid): New commerce options — including newly accepted forms of payment, installment payments, and student and senior plans — allow Android developers to serve more users around the world.
[23:37] Custom is key: Google Play Store listings can now be customized by the keywords users searched to find the app.
[29:38] Diversifying payments: Apps that offer in-app payments (IAP) in addition to subscriptions tend to perform better than apps that offer subscriptions alone.
[31:54] iOS =/= Android: To take full advantage of the Play Store, developers need to think about the diverse devices, budgets, and preferences of the 2.5 billion Android users around the world.
[34:40] Baby steps: Small experiments (like offering a paid 7-day pass instead of a free trial) can help you determine what works best for your app and tailor your offerings for diverse markets.
[45:00] Penny for your app?: Tipping is a surprisingly effective way of letting users pay for your product. -
On the podcast: How the Microsoft 365 team optimizes their apps for the app stores and the top paywall optimization tips for enterprise apps and start-ups. Part 2 of our conversation with Ramit Arora.
Key Takeaways:💼 Use jobs-to-be-done to inform your app store optimization (ASO) keywords strategy. Optimize for keywords that align with what your potential audience is hoping to accomplish. To discover what these keywords are, use the same user research that informs your product roadmap.
🔐 Use Apple Search Ads (ASA) to unearth highly profitable keywords for ASO. A mistake that some apps make is to rank for keywords that are easy to rank for, not for ones that will drive revenue. Use ASA to discover which keywords are driving subscription growth, not just downloads and engagement.
💲 High-impact paywall experiments that work for Microsoft will probably work for you. These include making the more expensive (family) plan the default option, anchoring the price of yearly plans to the monthly equivalent (emphasizing value), and ensuring that free trial offers use the word “free” on the CTA button itself.
About Guest:
👨💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.
🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.
👋 LinkedIn
Episode Highlights:[3:31] Choosing key keywords: Don’t go after keywords simply because they’re easy to rank for — select keywords that will actually drive value for your business.
[8:54] The golden ratio: Even Microsoft has to balance their LTV vs. CAC.
[10:58] Android vs. iOS: Right now, it’s more difficult to monetize on Android, but it’s a promising market.[13:01] Testing, 123: Microsoft optimizes paywalls with friendly CTAs and GIFs that show (rather than tell) the value proposition.
[15:55] Premium presentation: Simple changes like switching the order of subscription options on your paywall can result in a lift in conversions and revenue. -
On the podcast: Microsoft 365 app monetization and optimization, and how Microsoft is building successful apps–recorded live in Vegas at the Mobile Apps Unlocked (MAU) conference.
Key Takeaways:📱 The App Store advantage: Microsoft's data reinforces that the App Store, despite the fees attached, offers significant advantages. The seamless experience from things such as pre-attached payment methods results in a conversion rate from trial to paid that is five times higher than on other direct channels.
🚀 On the App Store, think like a startup (even if you’re not): Despite Microsoft’s strong brand, success in the App Store requires the agility and innovation of a startup. The platform's democratic nature allows new startups to challenge established companies. Continual innovation is essential and you need to be at the top of your game with ASO.
🔗 Bundling apps can mean better retention: Combining multiple apps into a single subscription can boost user retention by meeting a variety of needs. Even if a use case is one-off, there will be other use cases met by other apps. This strategy generally involves developing a wide range of features rather than focusing deeply on a single application.
🧠 Integrate AI thoughtfully: When integrating AI, it's important to consider if it genuinely enhances the tasks users perform and brings a desktop-level experience to mobile devices. This ensures the technology is both practical and user-focused, and not simply jumping on the bandwagon.
⚖️ As you scale, prioritization never becomes any less important: As the number of monthly active users grows, you need to think bigger and bigger in terms of impact. Focus on optimizations that affect large user groups. Simple improvements in app reliability, performance, and the purchase process can often impact the largest number of users.About Guest
👨💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.
🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.
👋 LinkedInEpisode Highlights
[1:14] From desktop to mobile: Microsoft is famous for its desktop software, but it’s increasingly prioritizing its mobile apps to keep up with consumer trends.
[3:09] Paying by phone: Users prefer to make purchases using their mobile device — trial-to-paid conversion rates are nearly 5x higher on mobile than other channels.[4:56] The start-up mindset: Think like a start-up to stay agile against the competition in the app stores.
[6:21] Value they can’t refuse: To retain users over the long term, Microsoft bundles multiple products and features into a single cost-effective app.[8:22] Staying ahead of the curve: The key to becoming and staying a leading app? Neutralize the competition, differentiate, and incubate.
[17:19] Lighting up the small screen: Apps like Photoroom and Microsoft Copilot are using AI to make tasks historically done on a desktop easy on a mobile device.
[21:09] You can’t do it all: Prioritize the app optimizations and features that will have the biggest impact on your business. -
On the podcast:The importance of passion for the product you’re working on, how to differentiate in a crowded market, and why achieving the ‘viable’ in Minimum Viable Product is harder than ever.
Key Takeaways:📉 Ad-based revenue models too often lead to a degraded user experience. For ad-supported products, the real customer is the advertiser, not the end user. This causes a conflict between doing what’s going to create the best product and what’s going to drive the most advertising revenue.
🚀 The bar for what makes a “viable” MVP is always getting higher. While no app first ships as a fully-formed 1.0, it’s now rarely viable to launch an app as a barebones MVP (minimum viable product). There are just too many apps offering too much competition to not offer a compelling reason for a user to switch.
🔍 The “Jobs to Be Done” (JTBD) framework allows you to dig deeper than surface-level features. Gathering user feedback is essential, but users rarely request what they truly want. JTBD demands going deeper than feature requests by addressing the underlying need that the user wants to fulfill.
❓ To get to the root cause of a user problem, ask the “five whys”. When a user makes a request, get into the habit of asking “Why?”. The more times you ask, the more clarity you’ll have on what you actually need to build, giving you jobs-to-be-done that can best meet the needs of your users.
🌀How to capitalize on “black swan events”. Adaptability and swift action are key to managing unexpected high-impact events. It's essential to pivot from past decisions without being anchored by sunk costs and to act and ship quickly to capture new opportunities.
About Guest:
👨💻 Seasoned Internet entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience building groundbreaking apps.
🌿Formerly an early employee at Mint, Val had a vision for a better, more user-centered financial health app.
💡“Try to pick a problem that you want to work on for 10 years — even if it were to fail. That’s how I feel. Even if Monarch were to fail, I would feel good that we moved the ball forward, we did something, we helped people along the way.”
👋 LinkedIn
Episode Highlights:[7:54] Ads vs. subscriptions: Why subscriptions (not an ad-supported model) were Val’s first choice for Monarch.
[9:12] The real MVP: In today’s subscription app world, the bar for a minimal viable product has gone way up.
[13:46] Just ship it (or don’t?): Getting customer feedback during the design phase may take more time up front, but it means identifying your users’ key “jobs to be done” in fewer product iterations.
[23:10] The five “whys”: Ask yourself… what is your app really selling?[24:56] Disappoint-Mint: How Val went from the Mint team to creating Monarch — and what happened when Mint shut down.
[34:17] Modern marketing: Talking to potential users on forums like Reddit can be an effective way to build trust and win fans.
[36:31] The butterfly effect: What’s next for the Monarch team and business.[38:02] On a mission: Val and the Monarch team are passionate about helping users improve their financial health.
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On the podcast: The past, present, and future of Meta ads, tactics to scale subscription apps on Meta, and why you should probably exclude younger audiences in your targeting.
Key Takeaways:
⍰ Why Meta Ads? Its vast reach and precision targeting make Meta the best platform for discovery. Ads seamlessly integrate with organic content, providing a native experience for users and transparency for advertisers.
📈 Simplify for efficiency. Kick off with broad targeting within a consolidated account structure. As your understanding and budget deepens, become more targeted with tailored ad variations.
🎯 Strategic targeting tips. To elevate conversion rates early on, sidestep users under 25 or 30 and prefer manual campaign setups. This initial focus enhances control, paving the way for more automated refinement later on.🧘 Navigating SKAN with patience. Prioritize trial events and give the data time to crystallize into actionable insights. Rushed evaluations can deceive; allowing at least a week can provide a more accurate picture of your campaign's impact.
🦾 Harness creative diversity and precise placements. Scaling up means evolving your creative approach to suit distinct audience behaviors across Meta's diverse platforms. Meticulously analyzing demographic and placement data ensures your ads resonate more profoundly with your target audience.
🖥️ Tips for better ads. Study native content and competitors to design ads similar to what users already see. Test new creatives in separate campaigns to protect your main campaign’s performance.About Guest
👨💻 Independent consultant who helps subscription apps unlock Meta as their primary growth channel.
📈 Marcus has over a decade of experience with a background in both gaming and consumer tech, working with companies like Forge of Empires, Blinkist, and Tandem. You can also find him on LinkedIn sharing practical advice on Meta Ads, Web2App, optimizing paywalls, and improving user onboarding.
💡 “Don’t target too narrow. These algorithms usually need a lot of reach so they can use the data to find the right audience for you. If you apply a ton of targeting restrictions on top, then usually you pay a premium for targeting more granularly while performance is not necessarily better.”
👋 LinkedInEpisode Highlights
[9:18] Before and after: How Meta ad marketing changed after Apple’s App Tracking Transparency (ATT).
[17:56] Working within limits: The pros and (multiple) cons of SKAN 3.
[20:36] Into the Meta-verse: Why subscription apps are uniquely situated to benefit from Meta ads.
[23:40] (Best) practice makes perfect: How to optimize Meta ad campaigns to find the right audiences and maximize ROI.
[32:56] Right on target: Unlock your app’s advertising potential with more advanced creative and placement strategies.
[35:06] The other half of the equation: Ads are just the beginning of the customer journey — make sure your entire funnel is a seamless and compelling experience for potential users.
[48:25] Get creative: For the best ad performance and ROI, create ad content that matches what your users are looking for on social platforms.[52:13] The future is bright: Upcoming developments like SKAN 4 and Meta’s Aggregated Event Measurement (AEM) should make creating and analyzing Meta ads easier.
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On the podcast: The many failures of his recent app launch, the surprising results of his first-ever A/B test, and the many reasons why you shouldn’t plan a big app launch.
Top Takeaways:🔄 Continuous evolution over big bangs: For subscription apps, frequent updates create enduring value, outpacing the impact of sparse, major launches. This steady stream of enhancements keeps your app relevant and signals relentless improvement to your audience.
🌱 Opt for flexible launches: Avoid putting all your hopes in one major launch. A strategy that includes multiple, smaller launches allows for adaptability and maintains your app's presence against the backdrop of an unpredictable news cycle.
📰 Press is unpredictable: Understand that media coverage does not guarantee app success. The broad reach may not always align with your target audience and many factors are outside of your control. Keep swinging, though, as some hits will indeed make a substantial impact — just keep your expectations in check.
💰 Adopt value-based pricing: Pricing should reflect what customers value in your app, not just the costs to provide it. Value-based pricing doesn't necessarily mean charging more, it just means charging the perceived value. Users don’t care about the costs of providing a service.
🔍 A/B testing insights depend on the nature of the cohort. The origin of your app's users — e.g. via launch events or organic growth — plays a crucial role in interpreting A/B test results. What did or didn’t work for one group isn’t necessarily applicable for the next — so test and draw conclusions appropriately.
About Guest:👨💻 Growth advocate at RevenueCat and indie developer of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.
🍎 Although he’s neither a designer nor a developer, David has been building the kinds of thoughtful, intuitive apps he wants to use since the App Store first launched in 2008.
💡 “The tough thing about getting attention is you do have to do something unique… and that’s the trade-off. The calculus for me was, ‘Let’s wait and try to make a big splash with all these things.’ But really, we could have already launched the widget, and just adding interaction would have gotten attention.”
👋 LinkedIn | Twitter
Episode Highlights:[11:04] Just ship it: Don’t try to release a ton of new features at once — you’ll get more attention and benefits by releasing incremental updates.
[23:11] Failure to launch: What’s the worst that can happen on your app launch day? A major Apple announcement!
[32:09] Riding the wave: Offering a launch-day sale on your app is a great way to increase conversions when you release a major update.
[36:16] The value of value-based pricing: Set your app’s price based on your target customer’s perceived value of your solution, not your idea of how much it’s worth and costs to run.[42:54] Dog-fooding the ’cat: David used several RevenueCat features (like Paywalls and Experiments) to set up and monitor the results of the Weather Up 3.0 launch.
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On the podcast: RevenueCat’s 2024 State of Subscription Apps report, the state of the app industry more broadly, and why a slight drop in renewals in 2023 isn’t as bad as it may seem.
Key insights:
📈 Optimize conversion rates: With a 1.7% average conversion rate from downloads to paying subscribers, there's a wide gap indicating room for improvement. North America shows higher conversions, spotlighting the need for regional price optimization.
🗓️ Persistence pays off: The top 5% of apps outearn the bottom quartile by 200 times a year post-launch. If year one is tough, consider pivoting or trying a new approach.
🗺️ Strategic focus is key: North America leads in app revenue, but don't overlook markets like South Korea, Japan, and India. Choosing the right platform and regional focus is crucial.
💲 Retention is crucial: A 14% drop in subscriber retention highlights the need for apps to focus on retaining users who truly value their service. It's vital to distinguish between loyal users and those less engaged.
📱 Reactivation grows with scale: While over 10% of churned subscribers resubscribe, reactivation becomes significantly more impactful as your app grows. Early on, prioritize acquisition and retention over win-back campaigns.
About Guests
🎙️David Barnard is Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and host of this very podcast.
👋🏼David’s LinkedIn
💻Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat, a self-proclaimed computer person, and often co-hosts this podcast with David.
👋🏼Jacob’s LinkedIn
Links & ResourcesCheck out RevenueCat online
Episode Highlights
[1:31] Weathering the storm: After several years of turmoil in the subscription app industry, things finally started to settle down in 2023 — and app businesses are thriving.[7:12] The business of intelligence: AI technology leapt forward in 2023, and mobile AI apps saw big wins.
[14:07] Stop guessing, start acting: The benchmarks in the 2023 State of Subscription Apps report can help you make data-driven strategic decisions.
[17:37] The state of the (app) union: Five key takeaways from the report that identify industry trends, potential pitfalls, and emerging opportunities.
[38:44] First impressions matter: Most trial starts occur within 24 hours, so make sure your user onboarding experience is compelling.
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