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Today I speak with Tom Boulton from the U.K.
Tom's Christian faith grew in his teenage years amongst friends. His dad thought Tom was in a cult. Tom experienced intense anxiety at the thought of friends and family going to hell. His faith is all-consuming. He said that 18 year old Christian Tom wouldn't recognize 23 year old Christian Tom. His understanding and definition of Christianity changed.
Tom mentors a 16 year old boy from church who comes out to Tom as gay. Tom doesn't respond so well the first time, but gets a chance to follow-up with the boy later and make it right.
Work is a great landing place for him to go as he deconverts. After deconverting he invites everyone, including church friends out for a pint to chat about the changes in his life. It goes really well!
Tom is the friendliest, kindest guy and I loved hearing his story! You'll love it too.
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Ryan is a former evangelical homeschooler who enjoyed life and understanding the world so much that he eventually outgrew the religion of his upbringing. He now works in the tech manufacturing field in Austin TX and enjoys group meditation, talking about philosophy and history, and playing both sports and music. Today, Ryan calls himself atheist or agnostic but prefers the simple term “secular”, with a philosophy most closely aligning with Buddhism.
We have a great conversation. It was so fun chatting with him and getting to know him. I love the Marcus Aurelius quote too! Ryan's authenticity and friendly nature really come through in this interview. Enjoy! -
エピソードを見逃しましたか？
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Christianity ruins their childhood. They were born into a Catholic family and went to church every Saturday. They became aware they were non-binary at 6 years old, realizing they didn't want to be a girl. Their parents were caring and the type of people that you wish Christians were. Despite a loving home environment, this didn't prevent a childhood of isolation and self-hatred. They were bullied, abused and suicidal. Somehow they remained a hardcore Christian.
Later in life they experience abuse in romantic relationships. In college they leave Catholicism for Non-denominational Christianity.
Processing their grandmother's death leads to panic attacks and motivates them to read the Bible. It's immediately obvious to them that the Bible is (dark) Fiction.
They eventually get mental health help and in 2019 decide they are non longer a Christian. They are now an atheist.
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* Trigger Warning: Discussions of abuse and rape*
Christa Elane is a self described "old Millennial" who has been deconverting for years and now leans atheist. She lives in the beautiful Pacific Northwest with her spouse and kids. She's a social worker and disability advocate with a passion for Autism acceptance and inclusion. She was raised in a so called "spirit filled' non-denominational Christian church in California. She was a part of the "Toronto Blessing" revival in he 1990s and was in a Christian cult in her teen years in Spokane, Washington. Christa wants to share about her journey out of Christianity and the abuses she witnessed at several churches.
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My guest today grew up never knowing any other perspective, except the one he was told to have. His family did not attend events outside of church. He spent preschool through 12th grade at the same private school and church. His friendships were strictly controlled. Girlfriends or "crushes" were prohibited. Every potential influence was censored. He had no privacy at any time. He wasn't allowed to develop any opinion unless it was the same as his parents.
He was forced to hide his thoughts, friendships, music or anything else that didn't conform. His worldview had been dictated to him his whole life until, through the Army ROTC program at a fundamentalist Christian college, he began to discover the real world. He now considers himself an atheist. He's married with two kids and lives in the South.
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Amanda was a devout Catholic. She used to attend mass daily. She and her husband didn't use birth control, in accordance with church teaching. She accidentally joins a cult at university. The 2016 and 2020 U.S. elections get her thinking about propaganda. She wonders what propaganda she believes. She hears a Bible verse that says, " You will know them by their fruits". That's the last straw. It gave her the final push to leave Christianity. She became an atheist in November 2020.
She's married and has four kids. She has her undergrad in theology and Master's degree in mental health counseling. She's passionate about human rights and changing the world through empathy.
Now she is focused on raising her four kids to be aware of others. She's considering going back to school to study religious trauma and spiritual abuse because she feels like these topics aren't talked about enough.
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Chelsy's been instructing English as a Second Language (ESL) for 20 years. She's been a full time lecturer at Purdue University since 2014.
Currently she's working on her second Master's degree about the experiences of lesbian ex-members of Campus Crusade for Christ.
She was raised in a Christian home, but an experience during the summer of her Freshman year in college, begins a series of big changes in her life. Her parents don't respond well. A mission trip to India leads to an epiphany. She is now agnostic/atheist.
Chelsy's hobbies include kayaking, playing guitar and drums, rock climbing, traveling and learning languages. Chelsy and her wife recently got married just a few weeks ago!
Congrats Chelsy!!
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Today I speak with Abby.
She was adopted from South Korea with her little sister by Christian American Parents. Her early life was marked by abuse and neglect. She was raised in a non-denominational Christian family. Demons and hell cause her nightmares as a child.
She makes big life decisions based on her faith. She later has to tell her Christian family that she is getting divorced. When She has to tell them she's an atheist, it doesn't go over well with some.
Now Abby is determined to be the kind of parent to her sons that she needed when she was a child. She wants to give them choices. She wants them to feel they have control. She wants them to know that they are their own person and they don't belong to anyone.
Abby was delightful to speak with. Her story and courage are so inspirational. I'm grateful she shared her story with us today.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCduezbfGbAZBzS3g5RwvW-g
Email:
[email protected] -
April grew up under a lot of parental pressure and expectations. Purity culture had a strong influence on her.
*Trigger Warning*:
We discuss an abusive relationship, mental health & suicide in the episode.When an abusive relationship ends, April begins to question how this is handled within a Christian context. April poses the questions: What happens when your autonomy is taken from you? She says, "This happens to a lot of people, what do we do then"?
Eventually April takes an Astronomy class in college and has an epiphany. April shares about her mental health and how suicidal thoughts were intrusive from childhood.
April feels like she's in a much better place mentally now that she's created distance between herself and people/places that were not healthy for her.
It's a wonderful conversation.
If you'd like to get in touch with April:
[email protected] -
Pastor & Musician who leads worship at his church. This father and husband has only come out as agnostic to a few people. He is using a fake name in today's interview.
He's a great guy and has a touching story about the costs we have to consider when leaving a Christian career.
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Today I speak with Ronna Russell, author of "The Uncomfortable Confessions of a Preacher's Kid".
Ronna describes her story as "a childhood controlled by the brutal hand of a narcissistic, closeted homosexual. I believed I could leave my upbringing behind and walk away unscathed. I married a closeted homosexual man, in hopes he could keep me safe. As our sex life and bank account dwindled to nothing, fear kept me silent. In the meantime, my father died of AIDs. The pain of his death fractured my biological family, and I clung to my husband and children, creating a cocoon that became a prison. Eventually, I was forced to see my husband’s homosexuality and refusal to work, realizations that brought me to the breaking point. I found the courage to be alone, to take care of my children no matter the cost, and the joy of my own sexual freedom. In the process, I fell in love with my own life".
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Today is a very special episode about an ex-Muslim's deconversion to atheism, while living in Iran. His story is so important to share!
He grew up in Iran in a Shia Muslim family. He was a devout Muslim until he got curious about Salman Rushdie's book, The Satanic Verses. His curiosity leads him to banned anti-islam websites. He reads articles and books, eventually realizing he's an atheist.
Muhammad began to spread anti-islam materials on websites and social media. After 3 years, he is caught and aggressively arrested on the street. He spends time in prison and solitary confinement. His parents put their house up for bail and he is forced to repent and make a false confession, which airs on Youtube and Islamic Republic television.
While on bail, he is eventually called back for the trial and an inevitable 15 years in prison.
He decides he must escape Iran.
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Jordan grew up going to church every Sunday with his family. He went to Bible studies and lived a typical Christian life. When he was junior high age, his family stopped attending church regularly.
As Jordan grew older, he struggled balancing his church friendships along with his non-church friendships. He didn't want to live a double life.
His faith becomes more serious and he discovers Calvinist theology. At first, he embraces it. Later, he begins to question more than just Calvinism.
The difficult process of deconstructing his faith leads to agnosticism.
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Gidday Listeners!
My first guest from Australian shares his fascinating journey out of Christianity.
He was raised in a typical Methodist Christian home in a small Township in Australia. His dad was a brickmaker and his mother a homemaker. He was raised going to Sunday school. His dad attended prayer groups during the week and his mom went to women's church groups.
As a young teenager he was listening to a Fundamentalist preacher when a blasphemous thought entered his mind. Instantly he knew he was damned and going to hell. He couldn't dare tell anyone, as this may confirm his terrible reality. He kept all this to himself. He lived his day-to-day life, but every so often was reminded of his terrible fate. This thought tormented him for years.
A few years later he's invited to a meeting with the Christadelphians. As a Methodist, he was viewed as a damnable heretic. Conversely, he viewed them that way too. Following an intense discussion he has a realization and finally finds relief.
I loved his message to embrace the things we don't know. This is a huge part of what brings me peace as an atheist too. It's ok to not know or understand everything. It's the mystery of life that brings wonder and awe. It also leaves us with so much to discover in our world.
In difficult times, we gather comfort from something Roland reminded me near the end of our talk: We're in it together!
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*UPDATE-Matt Recently Became Christian Again. A few months after we recorded this interview, Matt became Christian again. I'm leaving the interview up, but wanted listeners to know in case they were to reach out to Matt.
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Matt was born in Wichita, Kansas and lived there until about age 7.
He was raised non-denominational/charismatic mostly in the Assemblies of God churches and had full on believed by age 5. He had great parents and never had too many issues in the church. However, he always had a great fear of hell even as a Christian.
He was in and out of church most of his life until his first divorce. Then went to bible college at a very charismatic school in 2009. He began seeing cracks and flaws in that particular doctrine and started pulling back. He had gotten his minister's license close to graduation and upon graduation went straight to the mission field in Asia in 2011/12. He worked with the underground church in China and the Burmese refugees I’m Thailand.
He finally began having more questions over the years until he couldn’t do it anymore because of how it was just messing his head up. 10,000 religions, 40,000 plus denominations within Christianity alone, good people going to hell, simply for not believing. He hated the way Christians viewed & spoke to the LGBTQ community and other faiths like they all couldn’t just be people, but had to be a mission and Christians had to have an agenda. He felt that devalued all groups outside of Christendom as less than human. He hated it.
Later he had a stint in rehab for alcohol and began reading books like the wisdom of insecurity from Alan Watts and Thomas Paine’s the Age of Reason. He felt like he'd found freedom in Deism. He was there for a bit, then went back out of fear. That didn’t last long.
The full shift happened less than a year ago and now he is an Atheist. He said he truly feels born again and free.
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URGENT: If you live in Wisconsin please contact your state representative to express support for the Clergy Mandatory Reporter Act & the Child Victims Act.
These bills are being considered right now. If your representative is Republican, it's even more important. Republican support is low for these bills, but is critical. Anything you can do is very much appreciated.
Now, to introduce today's guest...
Debbie McNulty is a lifelong resident of Wisconsin. She attended a United Pentecostal church from about age 7 to 17. She was exposed to sexual abuse and ideas which caused serious religious trauma.
Now she works to help others cope with their trauma and raise awareness about the organization she grew up in. Her story is such an important story to tell.
Debbie is an amazing person and ends the conversation with such a hopeful message!
Debbie's Blog: https://survivingchurchandchildhood.wordpress.com/about/
Cap Times article:
https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/lawmakers-push-bills-to-end-statute-of-limitations-on-lawsuits/article_25165c22-1475-5752-84ce-bef5a81153d2.html -
You have to hear this story!
He's always wanted to help people. When he became a strong Christian, it was saving people from the lake of fire. If Hell was real, Wiley was compelled to do everything in his power to save people from it.
He would stand outside ATMs on busy Friday nights preaching to people. He was attracted to an aggressive form of Christianity. Having exactly the right doctrine was very important to him. So much so, that he and his wife later struggled to find the right church.
He wouldn't marry his wife unless she agreed to wear dresses and not celebrate Christmas, as it's a pagan celebration. She eventually agreed.
Later Wiley hears a podcast host pose a question for Christians. The host asks if Christians could admit they might possibly be wrong. When the podcast host proclaims that Christians never will admit this, Wiley thinks "challenge accepted".
His faith is tested and then his marriage. He faces questions about faith with transparency. He also decides to face OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) and PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) in an honest, open way. He's a courageous human being and I'm so glad he shared his story with us.
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Amanda is realistic about life's difficulties, but also very hopeful. She wears her heart on her sleeve and hopes her story will help others going through similar challenges.
I loved her wise words about living with mental illness and how, although better off today, she still has ups and downs. She's a kindhearted person with a great sense of humor. I loved getting to chat with her. Her story is such an important one to tell.
Amanda is a newly deconverted Christian that wonders where her prayers went for the 16 years she was a Christian, she describes herself as a multiracial undomesticated goddess but understands she’s a work in progress. Amanda was raised in an emotionally neglectful household and experienced sexual abuse from a family member. She committed her life to God as a way to escape abuse and to find love. Suicide was a common theme as she struggled with undiagnosed mental illnesses. She wants others to seek help with depression and anxiety when it comes up because it can be dangerous for those to go undiagnosed. During a mental health crisis last year she realized that God was not the answer and that she needed help for depression. During that time she was also diagnosed with PTSD. Since leaving Christianity she’s been freed from the guilt and shame associated with religion and now sees the world differently. This allows her to enjoy life, laugh more, and watch Game of Thrones. She is a mother to dynamic twin boys and a wife to a strong, adventurous man. She enjoys being outdoors but not exercising, she enjoys reading only for pleasure, she enjoys watching her children laugh and play but not fight, she loves game nights, good food, and rum punch drinks. She also aspires to be a comedian. She wants others to be unencumbered by the fear of what others think and to reach out when they need help. She wants to be a safe place for herself and others.
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I don't think I've met anyone who was as committed a Christian at such a young age as Jeremy. He understood his faith so well as a 7 year old that his friends at daycare wanted him to debate an adult atheist! At home he was telling his father he wanted to preach. By 10 years of age he was giving altar calls. This was a child who loved the Bible and lived his faith. Things continue like this into college.
One night during a church service Jeremy attended, the preacher decided to put her faith into action. She called forward a blind man for healing. Everyone expected a miracle, but after a while nothing occurred. The man was not healed. Jeremy was troubled by the experience. This was a turning point.
When Jeremy eventually accepts he's an atheist, he has to tell his fiancé, father and pastor at his church. These were conversations that would test his most important relationships.
He's come a long way and recently graduated from college. I had a great time talking with him and enjoyed a few laughs along the way.
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