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Show Notes
In this conversation, Simon and Mishel explore the significance of First Nations worldviews, and how through the modern worldview we have lost our relationships to the land and wider ecologies including our ancestors. Mishel McMahon, a proud Yorta Yorta woman living on Djaara Country, northern Victoria, Australia, and shares her lived experience and her academic research to help us break out of our limited modern mindsets, where humans are the top of a chain of being, rather than part of an ecology of co-existence and interdependence.
She emphasizes the need to reconnect, the importance of relationality, and the concept of cyclical time. Michelle shares insights on how these perspectives can inform health and healing practices, and the conversation culminates in a call for re-enchantment and recognition of our interdependence with the world around us.
Reflections
First Nations worldviews offer a broader understanding of reality.
Modern mindsets often reduce our connection to nature and each other.
Relationality extends beyond human relationships to include all entities.
Cyclical time emphasizes the interconnectedness of past, present, and future.
Ancestors play a crucial role in decision-making and identity.
Everything in nature is infused with spirit, creating a sense of family.
Collective identity fosters collaboration and mutual support.
Re-enchantment is necessary to combat disenchantment in modern life.
Thinking is a communal practice, influenced by our surroundings.
Connection to place is fundamental for personal and collective transformation.
Keywords
First Nations, worldviews, modernity, relationality, ancestors, cyclical time, ecosystems, collective identity, re-enchantment, connection to nature
Bio
Mishel McMahon is a casual Senior Research Fellow, Violet Vines Marshman Research Centre and proud Yorta Yorta woman living on Djaara Country, northern Victoria. Through First Nations-led research Mishel positions First Nations worldviews, concepts and processes for application within the health and healing sector, and research methodologies. Mishel led the Victorian Aboriginal Research Accord project, an 'On Country' Aboriginal Youth Leadership Aboriginal youth mentoring: a pathway to leadership, Blak Butterfly: First Nations emergency care best practice framework Blak Butterfly and Replanting the Birthing Trees: Our Kids Growing Up Strong, Happy & Healthy. -
Breaking Together
In this conversation, Jem Bendel discusses his journey from a career in corporate sustainability to advocating for a radical shift in how we approach climate change and societal collapse. He reflects on his influential paper, 'Deep Adaptation,' which argues that the sustainability movement is no-longer appropriate and that we should prepare for societal collapse. Jem introduces his new framework, 'Breaking Together,' which emphasizes community resilience and eco-libertarianism as a path forward. He shares personal insights about his upbringing and how they shaped his worldview, ultimately advocating for a collective approach to lead localised change.
TakeawaysThe sustainability movement has largely failed to address the urgency of climate change.Deep Adaptation provides a framework for discussing societal collapse.Many people have been radicalized by the realization of impending collapse.Eco-libertarianism offers a path that contrasts with eco-authoritarianism.Community resilience is essential in the face of societal challenges.Personal experiences can deeply influence one's worldview and actions.A good life is about inquiry, creativity, and connection, not just longevity.We must reclaim control over our resources and communities.The dominant narratives in society can limit our understanding of what is possible.Collective action and community engagement are crucial for creating a better future.Bio
Prof. Jem Bendell is Founder of the Deep Adaptation movement, an emeritus professor with the University of Cumbria and the co-Founder of the International Scholars’ Warning on Societal Disruption and Collapse. He worked for over 20 years in corporate sustainability, helping launch or develop many international initiatives. That led to his recognition as a Young Global Leader. His 2018 paper "Deep Adaptation" was downloaded over a million times and is widely credited with helping inspire the growth of the Extinction Rebellion movement. That marked a departure, whereby he concluded the field of sustainability had failed. His new book "Breaking Together" goes further by outlining a collapse-based political framework. Jem also co-hosts the short online course Leading Through Collapse: https://www.katie-carr.com/leadingthroughcollapse. -
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Psychoanalysis and Humanising the Workplace
Gabriella Braun, a renowned consultant and author, delves into her fascinating journey, sharing her insights from her latest book, All that we are: Uncovering the Hidden Truths Behind Our Behaviour at Work. Gabriella discusses how psychoanalytic principles can provide deep insights into organizational dynamics and group behavior, influencing everything from leadership to team cohesion. Her emphasis on emotional awareness highlights its critical role in effective coaching, while she explores how vulnerability in professional environments can foster stronger connections and transform group interactions.
Gabriella underscores the importance of humanizing the workplace, particularly in the face of rapid digitalization and societal change. She reflects on the interplay between personal and professional boundaries, noting how understanding these elements can contribute to healthier organizations. Gabriella also touches on societal issues, emphasizing the need for sensitivity and awareness in addressing them within organizations.The discussion centers on the broader theme of living a balanced, meaningful life, where understanding human desire and behavior, curiosity, and playfulness contribute not just to workplace success but to a more connected, compassionate society.
Bio
Gabriella Braun is the Director of Working Well, a specialist consultancy firm using psychoanalytic and systemic thinking to help leaders and teams. She has consulted to hundreds of clients including British Library, RADA, Tate, NHS Trusts, Schools, Colleges, University of Cambridge and University of London. She holds a masters's degree in Consulting to Organisations: Psychoanalytic Approaches; and was a Principal Consultant with the Tavistock Consultancy Service. She was on on Associate Faculty of the Dynamics of Consulting Program (in US), and has directed and held staff roles in numerous experiential workshops about leadership and team dynamics in UK and abroad. -
Kate Moger is the Global Director of Pledge for Change, an NGO representing a mutual commitment towards building a stronger aid ecosystem based on the principles of solidarity, humility, self-determination and equality. Kate shares her journey in the humanitarian sector and her vision for transforming it. With over two decades of experience in various leadership roles, Kate reflects on how she entered the field somewhat accidentally and how her perspective has evolved over time.
Kate discusses the changing landscape of humanitarian work, from her early days as part of the "last of the salvationists" to her current role in driving radical change. She candidly shares her experiences in South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlighting both the challenges and profound connections she found in these contexts.
The conversation delves into the complexities of power dynamics, feminism, and decolonizing aid. Kate emphasizes the importance of intersectionality and understanding power imbalances in her approach to feminism and humanitarian work. She explains the origins and goals of Pledge for Change, an initiative aimed at transforming the humanitarian sector through equitable partnerships, authentic storytelling, and influencing wider change.
Kate and Simon explore the tensions within the humanitarian system, questioning whether reform is possible or if a complete dismantling is necessary. They discuss the importance of nurturing emergent systems and leadership at the edges, while acknowledging the geopolitical complexities surrounding humanitarian work.
The podcast concludes with Kate's reflections on what it means to live a good life and create a good society, drawing on the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of speaking truth to power with kindness. This conversation offers a thought-provoking look at the challenges and opportunities in reimagining humanitarian work for a more equitable future. -
Eleanor shares her experiences and reflections on working closely with social movement activists for over 20 years. She lives in a Catalonian mountain village, where the Ulex Project she works for runs training and capacity-building events for a wide range of social movements. Eleanor reflects on the changes she has witnessed in social movement activists over time, such as how the hope for big social change has decreased due to the poly-crisis and complexity of the world's challenges.
Simon and Eleanor discuss how the ideology of neo-liberalism presents itself as TINA, ‘there is no alternative’, which has been very effective in reducing expectations and diminishing the hope of change. Activists need to sustain and energise themselves, and Eleanor shares how Buddhism has helped her decenter her individualism, and expand her relationality to all beings.
She shares how rock climbing provides her best leadership model, as when climbing there is total reliance on the leadership-followership relationship, and how the best plans get undone usually by nature intervening, forcing an emergent mindset.
Bio
Eleanor Moore is part of the Ulex Project core team that provides pan-European capacity-building support for social movements. Her role bridges facilitation, developing partnerships, governance, strategy, and programme evaluation.
She is embedded in practices of distributed leadership, solidarity economy, and mutual care—a daily exploration of prefiguration.
Before Ulex, Eleanor spent 10 years working across diverse social projects in the UK, such as housing, legal, and horticultural projects. These experiences and an immersion in critical theory in her early 20s led to an ongoing life exploration of the connections between the personal, the interpersonal, the socio-political, and the ecological.
A climber of many years, she finds respite, sanctuary, and sense-making on high exposed ledges, hanging out with lichen and vultures, and connecting with the perspectives of the non-human world. -
Leslie is a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco and shares an interest with Simon about how Lacan’s work can be very useful in our coaching practice. Leslie shares how Lacan’s psychoanalytic approaches show up in her work saying the most important thing is that “it changes the way I listen”.
She shares how this listening picks up on words and other speech acts that are often missed, such as repetitions, and sounds such as um and ah, and how these tell us something about our unconscious relationship to ourselves and others.
Simon and Leslie share experiences of psychoanalysis and how it is used in coaching. Leslie talks of how the body holds so much of our unconscious experience, and how she might ask a client about any body symptoms they are experiencing as a way to engage with the unconscious.
This fascinating discussion meanders through many experiences and thoughts, ranging from how Quakers and Buddhist practices are connected with psychoanalysis, and the overlaps between Leslie’s ceramic artwork and the unconscious. We hope you enjoy this podcast and it enriches your day!
Bio
Leslie Goldenberg is a Coach and an award-winning ceramic artist. Over the past several years, her work has increasingly come to address the unconscious at work in organizational life. Leslie earned her M.A. from UCLA and is currently a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco.
She holds a PCC credential from the International Coaching Federation, has a Master Coach certification from the Hudson Institute of Coaching, and was trained in our own Eco-Leadership Institute Coaching approaches. -
This conversation goes deep into an unplanned examination of the troubles of the world and arises from these to explore the changing workplace and how we reinvent ourselves.
Susan is a Jew who lives in London, and she describes her experience with both the rise of anti-Semitism and the sadness at what is happening in Gaza, as well as her deep desire for justice and peace for Israeli, Jewish, and Palestinian people. She recently returned from visiting Israel and then Poland for the March of the Living 2024 to remember the Holocaust. Simon and Susan share how even talking about these issues seems dangerous and yet so necessary as the world becomes more divided.
The podcast returns to the theme of reinventing ourselves and the changing nature of the workplace. Susan shares a tale from her book reflecting on the need for a much more holistic understanding of the world and ourselves within it.
We can easily see ourselves and others in partial ways, which doesn’t allow the full expression of our shared humanity. Simon reads a beautiful passage at the end of Susan’s book, called On Transience, drawing on Freud's 1916 essay.
This conversation is rich and touches on our deep humanity. Enjoy!
Bio
Susan Kahn is a business psychologist, a speaker, and an academic. She is a chartered psychologist, coaching psychologist, and supervisor with the British Psychological Society and a Fellow of the Association of Business Psychologists. She works as an executive coach, consultant, mediator, and observer of working life.
She has a particular interest in the behaviour of people at work and below-surface dynamics in organisations. She studied organisational consultancy using psychoanalytic methods at Tavistock and did her PhD at Birkbeck, University of London, where she teaches coaching psychology and established the Masters in Coaching Psychology. She also works as a group relations consultant. She uses psychoanalytic observation as a research method and has written about the psychoanalysis of endings and resilience. She is a board member of
This Can Happen: empowering workplace mental health, ISPSO and OPUS.
Her latest book is called Reinvent Yourself: Psychological Insights That Will Transform Your Work Life. Purchase it here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reinvent-Yourself-Psychological-Insights-Transform/dp/1398613312
Get in touch: www.drskahn.com -
Liz Rivers shares her rich engagement with nature and how it informs her work in leadership and as a coach. The seasonal organisation refers back to pre-modern times and draws on the Celtic Calendar as a way of connecting our workplaces with the rhythms and cycles of the natural world. The Celtic calendar marks times in the year when the light changes, when we have the shortest and longest days, which in turn mark the beginning and end of seasons. Life and work used to be organised around these seasonal changes, whereas in the process of urbanisation and industrialization, the clock took over and work was organised without reference to nature or its seasonal rhythms. Liz uses the seasonal organisation as part of her work to support women’s leadership in her Purpose Power Presence programmes delivered with Hetty Einzig. This training works with the body and the imagination to find space for something other than the constant, driven, male-dominated leadership styles we still find in today’s workplace. Simon and Liz reflect on how men would respond to this ‘women's course’ and how work and the environment can be more integrated in general. Enjoy this exploration of the seasonal organisation.
Bio
Liz Rivers is a former commercial lawyer turned leadership coach and co-founder with Hetty Einzig of Purpose Power Presence: Leadership Programmes for Women.
Disillusioned with the adversarial world of commercial litigation, Liz jumped ship and became the first woman to be accredited as a commercial and organisational mediator in the UK.
In her personal life, Liz's passions have included Chi Kung, wild swimming, storytelling, body psychotherapy, camping, and wilderness retreats. She has studied and worked with the Celtic Calendar for over a decade and found it a powerful tool for women leaders to align with their rhythms and create more humane workplaces. -
In this fascinating and deeply insightful podcast, Chantal and Brad reflect on the meaning of disappearance. Chantal comes from Mexico where over 100,000 people have disappeared through violence and kidnapping. Human disappearance leaves a hole, an empty space, a void to which our human response is often one of confusion, desperation, pain, loss, anger and even guilt.
Chantal is an artist working with abstract art, she is self-taught and learnt her craft from her artisanal family and the small Mexican community she grew up in. Chantal and Brad discuss how art, and abstract art in particular can speak to us when language fails us. In this wide-ranging discussion, Brad shares his philosophical insights into violence and disappearance in particular, saying that it is not easy to disappear somebody, and to disappear thousands takes a huge organisational effort, and asks what lies behind this?
Brad also discusses the Rhonda valley and the disappearance of jobs, of community, of a vibrant culture after the coal mines were shut without anything to replace the jobs; in his most recent book, he describes how these communities have disappeared from the view of wider society in the UK. Disappearance of humans is one thing, another form of disappearance that is finally entering our collective awareness is the disappearance of nature and the loss of biodiversity; how do we make sense of that?
Each of us has a relationship to disappearance, for some, it is a cultural phenomenon shared by collective people due to drug cartels, war or state terrorism that leads to many being disappeared. For others, it can be a personal story. We hope this podcast stirs your thinking and raises awareness of the meaning of disappearance in our current world.
Bio
Chantal Meza is an abstract painter living and working in the United Kingdom. Her work has been featured in exhibitions, auctions and biennials in prominent Museums and Galleries in Mexico, the United Kingdom, Paraguay and Germany. She has delivered international lectures and workshops at reputable universities such as Harvard University, École Normale Superiéure, Goethe Univeristät, and Goldsmiths University among others, as well as being commissioned publicly and privately. Her work has received the support of grants, public recognition and awards of prominent institutions in the cultural sector. More recently, her first edited volume “State of Disappearance” was published by McGill Queens University Press.
Professor Brad Evans is a political philosopher, critical theorist, and writer, who specializes in the problem of violence. He is the author of over 20 books and edited volumes, including most recently State of Disappearance (with Chantal Meza, McGill Queens University Press: 2023) & Ecce Humanitas: Beholding the Pain of Humanity (Columbia University Press, 2020). He previously led a dedicated columns/series on violence in both the New York Times and the Los Angeles Review of Books. Brad currently serves as Chair of Political Violence and Aesthetics at the University of Bath, United Kingdom, where is he the founder and director of the Centre for the Study of Violence. His latest book How Black Was My Valley: Poverty and Abandonment in a Post-Industrial Heartland will soon be published by Repeater/Penguin Random House in April 2024. -
This podcast reflects on my extensive and diverse work journey, which has been profoundly enriching. Yet, it transcends a mere work biography; it delves into an emotional journey shared. Work occupies a significant portion of our lives, yet we seldom reflect on how our experiences in the workplace impact and shape us.
Every time I recount this story to a live audience, I am surprised by how it evolves. The adage "you can't step into the same river twice" holds. My unconscious seems to guide me as I speak, causing me to omit certain details or emphasize aspects that typically escape my attention. Sometimes, I even find myself becoming emotional at specific points that resonate deeply. This story has a life of its own, continually revealing new insights about my past and present self as I revisit it.
We all have countless stories to tell about ourselves, and I've recounted my own tale, "what authored the author," numerous times, both in writing and in various settings. Interestingly, this particular narrative elicits a strong emotional response in people, a fact that initially caught me off guard. However, I've come to realize that this is precisely the essence of the story. It's not about me; rather, it serves as a mirror, reflecting something back to the reader. What it evokes, stirs, and ignites within you is significant; it prompts the question, "what authored you?"
Bio
Simon Western is a leading academic and practitioner in coaching and leadership, and the author of several books, reports, and academic papers. He is the host of the Edgy Ideas Podcast and the author behind the Re-enchanting Our Worlds newsletter on Substack. Simon has also developed and led the organisation’s popular courses. He is the founder of the Eco-Leadership Institute which runs coach training and leadership programmes and is a think-tank to create a more adaptive, ethical and impactful leadership approach for today's precarious-interdependent age. -
Sudarshan and Shweta are key leadership figures in Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). Sudarshan is CEO and Shweta is Head of Governance & Organisation Development.
In this podcast, they generously share their thoughts and experiences. Their approach is inspiring and enlightening, and it aligns closely to the Eco-Leadership Institute approach. They focus on shifting power from the centre to the edges. Their humanitarian work aims to create capacity, but not only through raising funds from external resources. They see the recipients of the aid they provide as key to creating capacity, as the children and citizens they support are full of potential that they aim to resource. They also look for long term solutions and focus on moving away from crisis reactions, and reliance on external funding, to build sustainable capacity through civic and state collaboration. They discuss some of their pioneering approaches to humanitarian aid and development and what is striking is the emphasis on deep caring and a holistic approach. Sudarshan and Shweta have to constantly adapt to the fast changing landscape. Key to their work is what we call LEDGE approaches - leadership from the edge, and they focus on bringing people from the edge to make their contribution heard and relevant. Whilst they face many challenges, they see their ecosystems are filled with resources. At the heart of their work is hope, fuelled by a collaborative and generous mindset.
Sudarshan is a strong advocate of developing a learning culture in the workplace. He shares insights from Bal Raksha Bharat’s most recent annual ‘Knowledge & Learning Exchange Week’ which focussed on ‘failing intelligently’; to remove any blame culture and learn from both the successful and unsuccessful initiatives. India is a place of diversity and challenges for them, but from this podcast you can feel the power of their hope and the energy they have to create a good society.
Bios:
Sudarshan Suchi is the Chief Executive Officer of Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). As a staunch believer in participatory processes, Sudarshan believes in co-creation and inclusion of all voices within design and action. Passionate about building self-reliance and creating livelihood opportunities, he has himself dabbled in creating and promoting eco-friendly farming practices.
Although he graduated in Philosophy, Law and completed Masters in Participation Power and Social Change, Sudarshan admits that most of his education happened outside the classroom. Over the past three decades, he has held leadership positions with eminent organisations like Reliance Foundation, Reliance Life Sciences, and National Dairy Development Board (NDDB). He has also taught at Institute of Rural Management, Anand (IRMA) and is part of Academic Council of IIHMR’s Rural Management Program.
As CEO of BRB, Sudarshan believes in creating a living organisation that is built on its people and their ability to be vulnerable, embrace shortfalls productively and aim towards improvement. His vision is to build and grow the movement for child rights in India, wherein children have a voice and agency, and participate as active citizens of the country.
Shweta Malhotra is a seasoned professional with 17 years of dedicated service at Bal Raksha, Bharat (Save the Children India), currently serving as the Head of Governance & Organisation Development. In this role, she adeptly oversees the Board, CEO’s office, and plays a pivotal role in enhancing the organization’s adaptability in an ever-changing dynamic environment. A true advocate for fostering a human-centric culture, Shweta thrives on meaningful connections with people.
Her professional narrative includes a fascinating chapter as a freelance fashion designer, where she successfully ran her own label. Beyond her professional pursuits, she finds joy in travelling with her family and relishes the simple pleasures of snuggling up with a good book and a cup of coffee. -
Chloe is co-director of Lighthouse Relief a small NGO set up 8 years ago in Greece to respond to the influx of more than 900,000 refugees arriving in Greece from Syria at that time. Chloe shares her experience and the changing nature of the challenges they face. Initially, Greece was a very welcoming country, as Greek citizens personally and collectively identified with their own histories of forced migration in the 1920s. However, the wars in the Middle East that led to the refugee crisis coincided with the collapse of the Greek economy during the financial crisis, impoverishing many many Greeks. Rightwing politicians exploited this vulnerability and gained a stronger foothold in Greek politics.
Today refugees and asylum seekers are much more diverse coming from many different countries, and often arriving in desperate and vulnerable conditions. Chloe explains how their previous support strategies were being undermined through policy and law changes, such as restricting access for NGOs from entering refugee camps where they had been supporting children for the past 7 years, or preventing them from going onto beaches to support the rescue of asylum seekers in trouble at sea.
Many organisations espouse being agile these days, and many could learn from small NGOs like Lighthouse Relief who pivot and adapt to the fast-changing conditions they have to work in. Chloe shares how the NGO teams support each other to do this work and Simon and Chloe end the podcast reflecting on the importance of what it means to have a home. This is an important and powerful podcast to begin 2024.
Often we question if the money we give to charity goes directly to the people impacted and who need the support. Chloe's NGO is small but has a big impact on so many lives; please give to support Chloe and the Lighthouse Relief team doing their vital work.
You can donate here: www.lighthouserelief.org/donate
Bio:
Chloe draws on her professional experiences in the arts, journalism, and at human rights organizations to run partnerships and advocacy for Lighthouse Relief. As Co-Director, she helps drive its strategic direction and navigate the changing humanitarian landscape.
Previously, Chloe has written about art and cultural diplomacy for publications including The New York Times and served as United Nations correspondent for several media outlets, reporting through the lens of gender equality. Her engagement with refugees and the issues affecting them in Greece began while reporting from camps near the North Macedonian border in 2016. She holds a B.S. in Foreign Service from Georgetown University and a M.A. in International Affairs from Sciences Po, Paris. -
This podcast focuses on Richard Carter's work and life as a vicar at St Martin-in-the-field, a bustling church in Trafalgar Square London, known for its work on social justice and in particular its work with the homeless. Richard and Simon met when Simon was experiencing a deep personal trauma and loss. Richard became a very important spiritual support and friend during the early days of grief. Previous to his work in London Richard spent 15 years in the Solomon Islands as a chaplain to, then member of, the Melanesian Brotherhood, an Anglican monastic community. During this time Richard too experienced a deep traumatic loss when 7 brothers of his community who were working for peace were taken hostage and killed. Richard and Simon discuss their response to their grief, highlighting the hope and grace that transcends grief, enabling new life to emerge.
Richard shares the impact of the move from a quiet island in the Pacific Ocean with no electricity, to the heart of busy, noisy London. Over the years he wondered about returning to a life of more silent prayer, yet realized that he had a calling to build community and offer stability through his work in London. On a retreat, he found spiritual clarity and the words came to him… ‘The city is my monastery’. Seeking community, it was homeless people, particularly international refugees who became an essential part of his community. He founded the Nazareth Community to respond to people's spiritual need for community, silence and sanctuary and to offer service when living in the bustling city and the Nazareth Community welcomes members from all walks and experiences of life. Richard shares the joys of multi-cultural London, his life is enriched by diversity, the nature found in London’s parks, and the gifts he receives from a life of service to others.
Get Richard's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Letters-Nazareth-Contemplative-Journey-Home/dp/1786224917
Bio
Richard Carter is Associate Vicar at St Martin’s where he has been working and living as a priest since 2006 on the edge of Trafalgar Square. Richard has special responsibility for the education and formation programme, pastoral care and outreach to those facing homelessness. Richard is the founder of the Nazareth Community, whose members gather from everyday life to seek God in contemplation and to live compassionately and generously building a community of welcome on the edge of Trafalgar Square. He also started and coordinates the International Group which provides community and support for migrants and asylum seekers and those with no recourse to public funds. He is the author of The City is My Monastery: A Contemporary Rule of Life, Canterbury Press and editor of Who is My Neighbour? The Global and Personal Challenge (SPCK, 2018). His latest book Letters from Nazareth: A Contemplative Journey Home (Canterbury Press 2023) are letters of encouragement for our times, and how contemplation and reflection lead to resolute action. Richard leads many retreats and quiet days and is a regular contributor to BBC Radio 4’s Daily Service.
Before living in London Richard was a member of the Melanesian Brotherhood a simple community working for peace in the South Pacific. His experiences there are described in In Search of the Lost (Canterbury Press 2006), a moving first-hand account of loss and grief after the violent deaths of seven members of his religious order. -
In this deeply insightful podcast, Niall shares findings and thoughts from his research and study of the conflict in Northern Ireland, published in his recent book Deniable Contact: Back-Channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland. Niall has spoken to key actors in the peace process, and in particular has sought to understand the conflict by seeking data from the back-channel negotiators, those courageous people who put their lives at risk and whose mediation work was done in secret and without acknowledgement. Niall found a rich store of historical evidence, including the private papers of key Irish Republican leaders, and the papers of Brendan Duddy, the intermediary who acted as the primary contact between the IRA and the British government on several occasions.
Simon shares his experience of meeting Brendan Duddy after inviting him to a Faith in Leadership conference when working at the Tavistock Clinic. Brendan attended Tavistock group relations conferences and was able to utilise this learning in his mediation work, identifying the essential issues with great clarity. At great personal risk, Brendan worked to bridge the unbridgeable divide and bring two sides together in secret negotiations.
Niall shares his thoughts on what learning can emerge from the Northern Irish peace process and warns about what cannot be generalised. This is a truly fascinating discussion.
Get Niall's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deniable-Contact-Back-Channel-Negotiation-Northern/dp/0192894765
Short Bio
Niall Ó Dochartaigh is a Professor of Political Science and Sociology and Director of the MA in Public Policy at the University of Galway. He has published extensively on the Northern Ireland conflict, on peace negotiations and on territorial conflict. His publications include Civil Rights to Armalites: Derry and the Birth of the Irish Troubles and the co-edited books Political Violence in Context and Dynamics of Political Change in Ireland: Making and Breaking a Divided Island. His most recent book, Deniable Contact: Back-channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland, published by Oxford University Press in 2021, was awarded the Brian Farrell book prize of the Political Studies Association of Ireland and was shortlisted for the 27th Christopher Ewart-Biggs Literary Prize. -
Napoleon is back in the cinemas, and apparently, there are more movies made about him than any other person, he is third on the list of most books written about a person (behind Jesus and Hitler).
So what is the allure and what can we learn from this Mesianic leadership figure?
To dig deep into these questions Jonathan Gosling and Stephanie Jones join me as guests, bringing their insights from their book on Napoleonic Leadership, a study of power which you can download from here www.napoleonic-leadership.com
This is a rich conversation, exploring ideas of charisma, power, and patronage, and asking questions about how certain contexts create the conditions for different leadership approaches. We explore the object of desire and how charisma is not just about having an extrovert personality, but how a leader harnesses the desires of a nation to their own desires, and most importantly takes action.
Jonathan reflects on this active element of leadership and how tactics and power, mixed with the drive to act were a big part of Napoleon's leadership approach. If you've watched the movie, listen to the analysis and review if you are interested in leadership, this is a must-listen anyway.
Bios
Prof Jonathan Gosling
Jonathan acts in an advisory capacity for leadership-related projects in commercial, governmental and activist organisations. He has been Professor of Leadership at renowned universities around the world; is a key-note speaker on leadership, power and change; is principal investigator for complex research projects; and coordinates Pelumbra’s growing portfolio of programs. His writing covers a spectrum from scholarly philosophical articles on ethics and wisdom, to applicable lessons drawn from historical leaders such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Horatio Nelson.
Jonathan was recently appointed as a Visiting Professor at the Bristol Leadership and Change Centre (BLCC) at the University of the West of England and runs his own consulting company, Pelumbra Ltd.
You can find out more about Jonathan at: www.jonathangosling.com
Dr Stephanie Jones
Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior at Maastricht School of Management, having graduated with a PhD from University College London, and a Bachelor’s degree (in History) from the London School of Economics. Dr Jones has authored over 25 full-length internationally-published books on business and management – three of them with Professor Jonathan Gosling. She teaches MBA students across the world, especially courses on leadership, culture and change. Her teaching locations include Kuwait, Egypt, Yemen, China, Vietnam, Peru, Surinam, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and several African countries. With a background managing businesses in recruitment, consulting, and training operations in China, India, the Middle East and Australia, Dr Jones gained extensive experience in the corporate sector before returning to academe a decade ago. She is still active in consulting and training. Dr Jones also supervises student theses, at Doctoral, Masters and Diploma levels, assessing and evaluating theses around the world. Napoleonic Leadership: A Study in Power is her third book with Professor Gosling, the others being Nelson’s Way: Leadership Lessons from the Great Commander (2005, published by Nicholas Brealey) and Key Concepts in Leadership (2012). -
In this episode, the iconic and world-renowned management expert Henry Mintzberg shares his wisdom on issues of management, organisations and how society needs rebalancing. More than this, Henry generously reflects on his own working methods and approaches, which gives a fascinating insight into his success.
When asked by Simon how he sees things that others don’t see, Henry points to his hero, the boy in the Hans Christian Anderson story who told the truth to the crowd that the emperor was naked. This is Henry’s perceptive gift, to see what others don’t see, or what they don’t want to see.
His first success was the book, 'The Nature of Managerial Work'. Henry observed what 5 CEOs actually did at work. This research found that the widely accepted idea that the manager's role was to plan, organise, coordinate & control, was false. By setting out what they actually did, Henry’s observations had a major impact on how we think about
management. Henry doesn't think he is particularly creative, nor is he a contrarian as some claim, he believes he is perceptive and reports what he sees. Much of Henry’s management education approach places observation at the heart of the work; Henry quotes the baseball coach Yogi Berra, who said, ‘You can observe a lot just by watching’.
Alongside his strength of perception, his other self-identified strength is to be able to reframe. He reframed strategy from being an exercise of future planning to learning and emergence, and he reframed management education as social learning.
Henry strongly challenges the MBA as “training the wrong people, in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences”. Henry believes management is a mixture of art, science and craft, and yet the MBA focuses only on the science. Challenged to address this deficit in
management education, Henry alongside colleague Jonathan Gosling and others, created the International Masters Program for Managers, which aimed to rethink management training, placing learning from practice, and learning from each other at the heart of this work.
Rebalancing society is Henry’s continuing passion, where he realises that we are stuck on thinking about two sectors, how the private and public work, but a vital third sector sits outside the other two, which he calls the plural sector. This is made up of those organisations, not private, or public i.e. NGOs, foundations, universities, charities, community groups, non-profits, etc. The plural sector is a vital part of society, and we are presently way out of balance. Henry’s latest book is titled Understanding Organisations…Finally!
This is a deeply insightful podcast that we are sure you will both learn from and enjoy!
Short Bio
Henry Mintzberg is a writer and educator, mostly about managing originations, developing managers, and rebalancing societies (his current focus). After receiving his doctorate from the MIT Sloan School of Management, he has made his professional home in the Desautels Faculty of Management at McGill University in Montreal, where he sits in the Cleghorn Chair of Management Studies, with extensive stints along the way in England and France. He has authored 21 books which have earned him 21 honorary degrees and an officership in the Order of Canada. He publishes a regular blog, a collection of which was published as Bedtime Stories for Managers. He co-founded the International Masters Program for Managers (impm.org) and the International Masters for Health Leadership (mcgill.ca/imhl) as well as CoachingOurselves.com, all novel initiatives for managers to learn together from their own experience. More of his work can be found on mintzberg.org.
Photo credit: Lisa Mintzberg (2019) -
In this podcast, Nora Bateson shares her thinking about the ecology of communication, which is at the heart of her latest book 'Combining'.
Nora shares her experience of being the daughter of Gregory Bateson the world-famous ecological thinker, and how he lived his ecology, rather than treat ecology and systems thinking as objects to study. Nora internalised this and explains how she works with people on her concept of Warm Data and Warm Data Labs, to practice this ecological way of being. Working organically with them, not to solve specific problems in a linear way, but to discover emergent and nuanced possibilities unknown to them at the start of their work together.
This recording took place on Halloween and Nora shares readings from her new book relating to this time of year, her first reading is 'Lurking Monster' which expresses how the ghosts of industrialisation lurk in our speech and pervade our lifeworlds, entrapping us in cultural patterns of repetition. This is a rich and at times beautiful podcast, which we highly recommend you take your time to listen to when you have the space to feel as well as think.
Bio
Nora Bateson is an award-winning filmmaker, research designer, writer, educator, and international lecturer, as well as President of the International Bateson Institute based in Sweden. She is the creator of the Warm Data theory and practices. Nora’s work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in the ecology of living systems.
In her latest second book Combining, Nora invites us into an ecology of communication where nothing stands alone, and every action sets off a chain of incalculable consequences. She challenges conventional fixes for our problems, highlighting the need to tackle issues at multiple levels, understand interdependence, and embrace ambiguity.
Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Combining-Nora-Bateson/dp/1913743853 -
In this podcast, Professor Cary Cooper shares his extensive experience of working to create healthier and happier workplaces. Cary shares his belief that in times of rapid social change, organizational workplaces are more important than ever as sites that can provide healthy environments that support our well-being. Cary identifies key turning points that informed his work; firstly in the 1970s stress was for the first time identified as a big challenge, and the response was to support the individual to cope with their stress better, e.g. stress management and responses such as today's mindfulness. In the 2008 financial crash and the subsequent 'job restructuring' when organizations stripped their workforce to the minimum, Cary observed a change in workplace responses when a manager said to him that the number one challenge he had was staff retention. This began a shift whereby organizations weren't so concerned with managing individual stress but realized they had to provide workplaces that offered healthy environments where employees could flourish, in order to ensure their well-being, get the best performance from them and to retain them.
Cary identifies the line manager as perhaps the key ingredient for a healthy and productive workplace. Most line managers are chosen for their technical ability, and yet their role is vital in terms of people management skills. Reflecting on the UK's focus on growth, he points to the lack of a policy that focuses on this key area of people management; improving this he believes would be vital to increase growth.
Cary reflects on his personal journey and shares that his life from an Eastern European Jewish working-class background story continues to impact on him, citing the constant need to 'prove himself' as the driver of his success.
This is a wonderful podcast with one of the great figures of our generation, who has contributed to organizational health and well-being.
Enjoy the listen!
Bio: Professor Sir Cary Cooper
Cary L. Cooper is the 50th Anniversary Professor of Organizational Psychology and Health at the Alliance Manchester Business School, University of Manchester. He is a founding President of the British Academy of Management, Immediate Past President of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD), former President of RELATE and President of the Institute of Welfare. He was the Founding Editor of the Journal of Organizational Behavior, former Editor of the scholarly journal Stress and Health and is the Editor-in-Chief of the Wiley-Blackwell Encyclopaedia of Management, now in its’ 3rd Edition.
He has been an advisor to the World Health Organisation, ILO, and EU in the field of occupational health and wellbeing, was Chair of the Global Agenda Council on Chronic Disease of the World Economic Forum (2009-2010), then served for 5 years on the Global Agenda Council for mental health of the WEF, and was Chair of the Academy of Social Sciences 2009-2015. He was Chair of the Sunningdale Institute in the Cabinet Office and National School of Government 2005-2010. Professor Cooper is currently the Chair of the National Forum for Health & Wellbeing at Work (comprising 40 global companies e.g. BP, Microsoft, NHS Executive, UK government (wellbeing lead) , Rolls Royce, John Lewis Partnership, etc.). Professor Cooper is the author/editor of over 250 books in the field of occupational health psychology, workplace wellbeing, women at work and occupational stress. He was awarded the CBE by the Queen for his contributions to occupational health; and in 2014 he was awarded a Knighthood for his contribution to the social sciences. -
Barbie, patriarchy, and the culture wars with Professor Caroline Bainbridge
This podcast came about in relation to Caroline and Simon’s personal reactions to the Barbie movie and in recognition that this movie is a 'cultural event' that demands some thought.
As Caroline says, 'this movie needs psychoanalysis': Freudians would say it's all about death, desire, and sexual difference. For anyone interested in object relations, themes of play, transitional spaces, and phenomena, aggression and pain make up the substance of the plot. For Caroline, a key part of the movie's pleasure is linked to its radical owning of the patriarchy as a fact, a given of contemporary society. It's the first time she can recall having seen this depicted on film in a mainstream movie in such a bold, incontrovertible way. This, in itself, makes the movie radical, she argues, despite its unevenness in parts. Caroline talks inspiringly about how her repeat viewings of the film revealed the extent of its play with ideas, and she shares her deep and thoughtful views on why this movie is important.
Simon watched the movie once and found himself both very impressed and also very troubled: while he admires the outing of the patriarchy that Caroline mentions, this doesn't outweigh his concern about the portrayal of men as degrading, and he found the depiction of seemingly binary differences between men and women troubling. For Simon, this potentially feeds into the right-wing populist agenda that, in turn, feeds off the gender and culture wars.
Caroline sees it a little differently, suggesting there are some subtle nuances built by director Greta Gerwig, especially in her play with the distinctive absence of genitalia in Barbie and Ken dolls. She suggests that the film centers this idea, the better to open up space to explore what non-binary, trans, and more fluid ideas of gender might be like. Similarly, Caroline notes that critics sometimes describe Barbieland as a matriarchy, but Gerwig actually does something novel here. There are no mothers in Barbieland, and no children either - in fact, the film goes to great lengths to show how maternal versions of the doll such as Midge have been discontinued, and narrator, Helen Mirren, plays with the idea of smashing associations between doll play and being a mother from the very beginning. The implication is that Barbieland is not so much a matriarchy as a woman-to-woman sociality, and this has important implications for how Gloria (America Ferrera) and Sasha (Ariana Greenblatt) are able to find one another afresh and to re-navigate their complex relationship.
Simon's Substack blog on the film which led to this podcast can be read here.
Bio
Caro Bainbridge is Emeritus Professor of Psychoanalysis and Culture and a former editor of Free Associations and of the film section at the International Journal of Psychoanalysis. She co-edits a book series on psychoanalysis and popular culture for Routledge. She's a Fellow of the RSA, a Founding Scholar of the British Psychoanalytic Council, Research Associate at the Freud Museum, London, and a member of ISPSO and Opus. Caro has recently co-founded the MiNDings consultancy (www.mindings.org), where she works in the organizational processes and leadership space. She is also a member of the Eco Leadership Institute, and she practices as an executive and personal coach. Outside work, she makes the most of living close to Another Place, an art installation on a beach that evokes edges and possibilities in equal measure. -
In this podcast, Yannick shares how he believes coaching can play an important role for clients with an interest in using psychedelics. LSD and other psychedelics were popular in the 1960s with Timothy Leary being the guru of the age, but disrupting the field as well. At the time, psychedelics-assisted forms of therapy were first explored. Following the Nixon administration's declaration of a "war on drugs'', psychedelics have been marginalised and all research banned until the early 2000s saw a renaissance of psychedelics in the field of mental health treatment. Yannick explains how his interest was stimulated by emerging clinical research and how he started to make relevant connections to positive psychology and coaching. In this episode, he lays out his argument of why psychedelics could be used for learning, growth and well-being, and not just as a treatment for illness, and why coaching might be an ideal partner in this endeavour. In the process, Yannick describes his journey which leads to ethical questions, social questions and also questions about coaching itself.
Enjoy this edgy edition of Edgy Ideas!
Bio:
Yannick Jacob is a Coach, Trainer & Supervisor with Masters degrees in Existential Coaching and Applied Positive Psychology. He is part of the teaching faculties at Cambridge University and the International Centre for Coaching Supervision, and he’s the Course Director of the School of Positive Transformation’s Accredited Certificate in Integrative Coaching, for which he gathered many of the world’s most influential coaches. Formerly Programme Leader of the MSc Coaching Psychology at the University of East London, Yannick now presents at conferences internationally and his book, An Introduction to Existential Coaching, was published by Routledge. Committed to helping other coaches be the best coaches they can be, Yannick founded and hosts Yannick’s Coaching Lab which gives novice and seasoned coaches an opportunity to witness experienced coaches live in action, and he is the host of Animas Centre for Coaching's popular podcast Coaching Uncaged, as well as his own podcasts Talking about Coaching and Talking about Coaching and Psychedelics. - Se mer
