Episoder
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I LOVED every second of this conversation with the wonderful Charlene Ng, and I’m so thrilled to leave it with you as the last episode in this first season of the Oblivious Witness podcast.Charlene was born in Hong Kong, has Canadian citizenship, and studied in the United States from the age of 15. Her elite education, which culminated in a degree in Cultural Psychology from Stanford University, left her with incredible tools for establishing an impressive career, but also with a harsh inner voice that told her that perfectionism and being “the best” were the only valid measures of success. Through practices like mindful self-compassion, Charlene has been able to quiet those critical inner voices and approach life’s challenges with a kinder inner knowing, and she now uses the wisdom she’s accumulated to help Chinese parents to guide their children in navigating their own paths towards learning.I hope you’ll enjoy listening to this conversation with the stunningly bright and inspiring Charlene Ng as much as I enjoyed having it.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode, or any of the episodes in Season One, have inspired you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
Especially in the light of the recent US elections, the world is feeling more dangerously divided than ever, and I’ve never felt more strongly that it’s through people’s individual stories that we can be reminded that when it boils down to it, we’re all striving towards the same goals - fulfilment, happiness and a world that’s safe for ourselves and for future generations.
Let’s please come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our lives, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love
Michelle x
I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe to Oblivious Witness and become part of the conversation!
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
Aida Mustafina was born in a small city in the world’s ninth largest nation, Kazakhstan. When Aida was growing up, young girls were generally taught that their primary goals should be to respect men, and to value their own roles as good wives and mothers. Aida’s parents, however, were extremely progressive, and encouraged their daughters to make their own way in the world.
When Aida was eighteen, her father accompanied her to China, where she started a new life and eventually became a reluctant role model for other young women who’d come from similarly traditional backgrounds.
I’m so happy to bring you this conversation with the wonderful Aida Mustafina. Please enjoy.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love
Michelle x
I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
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I’m so thrilled to have another Dutch guest on the Oblivious Witness podcast! And I have to highlight a thing that would have filled my Dad’s Dutch heart with joy… There’s conversation in this episode about a close encounter with Dad’s all-time favourite musician, André Rieu!
Following in the footsteps of her adventurous parents, Tanya Busquet has lived in many places across Europe, the Caribbean, the Antipodes and Asia. She’s seen life from many different perspectives, sometimes moving between extremes, like when she went from years of living on a budget as a backpacker, to a long stint working in the exclusive designer shops in Amsterdam’s PC Hofstraat. She currently lives in Beijing, China, with her husband and children.
Throughout all of her adventures, Tanya has striven to maintain a sense of the basic goodness of humanity, always looking beneath the surface of people’s behaviour to try to understand their problems and motivations. This level of empathy has led her to try to help less privileged people in some of her host nations, including Syrian refugee children in Istanbul, and orphaned rural children in China, who go to Beijing requiring life-saving surgeries.
Please enjoy this conversation with the wonderful Tanya Busquet.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love
Michelle x
I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
Twenty years after my own family left post-war Netherlands in search of a better life, Linda Li’s family found refuge there after fleeing the hardships of the Chinese Cultural Revolution.
Linda’s family were the only Chinese people in a small Dutch village near the German border, and racial taunts were an unavoidable part of Linda’s childhood. Linda and her brother and sister helped their parents to run a Chinese restaurant in the village, then during a five-week holiday in China, Linda became interested in Mandarin, and eventually decided to become a translator. She spent summers in Beijing, then was awarded a scholarship to study in Shanghai, and after graduation she accepted a job with a Fortune 500 company in that city.
While in the Netherlands Linda had been seen as a Chinese, on moving to China she found that she was considered neither Chinese nor Dutch. Expat colleagues would treat her like an assistant, and Chinese people would reprimand her for not speaking Mandarin fluently enough. She slowly grew to accept this reality, and surrounded herself with like-minded friends.
Linda eventually became a successful project manager with a creative agency, but her success came at a cost. After suffering from burnout, depression and suicidal ideation, Linda started to concentrate on the things that truly lifted her up. After starting with short walks with her dogs, Linda worked her way up to running marathons and triathlons, and she now has her own business, teaching other people how to work with their bodies to stay strong, vital and alive.
Linda now lives with her wife and dog in Beijing, and the three of them dream of living in a cottage with a little garden in Spain.
Please enjoy this conversation with the inspirational Linda Li.
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
I knew that Amy Devine was a kindred spirit the first time I met her in Beijing, China, but it was only as the months went by and I heard more of her story that I recognised why I felt such a connection.
Amy Devine was brought up on a council estate in the UK, and like me, she ended up living a life of international adventure almost by accident. Amy’s childhood exposure to addiction and domestic abuse led her to a degree in criminology. After she graduated she moved to China, where she started teaching English, and she then gained a Masters degree in education and ended up teaching at a prestigious international school in Beijing.
During her earliest years in China, Amy enjoyed the perks of the expat lifestyle, earning a good salary and partying with her friends, until one day her flatmate pointed out that her drinking had become problematic. The journey that Amy has since taken towards sobriety and self-actualisation has changed the course of her life. Recovery has led Amy towards women’s groups, meditation and breathwork, all of which have inspired her to retrain as a breathwork facilitator, start her own business, and leave her comfortable life in Beijing behind.
When we recorded this interview just before I moved from Beijing to Bali, Amy was on the cusp of a series of fabulous new adventures.
To learn more about Amy’s breathwork offerings, check out her website (with photos by yours truly 😊), and follow her on Instagram. Also make sure you have a listen to her excellent podcast, What’s It All About.
Please enjoy this conversation with the luminous Amy Devine. I’ll look forward to bringing you an update on her adventures very soon!
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love
Michelle x
I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
Hello, Oblivious Witnesses!
If you have your hands free while you’re listening to this episode, head over to Instagram and check out the beautiful work of documentary and portrait photographer Lyra Lintern. Lyra’s stunning photographs give us an insight into the way she sees the world and the way she lives her life, and are the perfect visual accompaniment to her words.
Lyra Lintern is an anthropology graduate whose interest in people and how they live shines through in everything she does. Having spent the covid years living in China with her family, Lyra took advantage of the country’s closed borders, travelling domestically and documenting China and its people at an exceptional moment in their history.
Lyra tells us, in this interview, about the first time she left her native France, and about the years she spent studying and living in Canada. She tells us the incredibly romantic story of how she met her husband David, and describes, poetically, the way she feels about her home nation of France now that she has lived away from there for more than half a lifetime.
Please enjoy this conversation with the wonderful Lyra Lintern.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love
Michelle x
I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
The first time I met Corinne Canuel-Jolicoeur was on a bus travelling from Beijing to the Great Wall of China. The friend who introduced us happened to mention that we were both into writing, and that was it… The rest of the journey to the starting point of our hike went by in a beautiful blur, as Corinne and I talked about our many creative projects and passions, and I realised that I was only scratching the surface of the stories that Corinne has to share about her extraordinary life and career.
It’s impossible to spend time with Corinne without ending up feeling more inspired to appreciate your one wild and precious life. Despite having experienced adversity including accidents, loss, illness and injury, Corinne is endlessly positive and philosophical. From her earliest days in Quebec, Canada, through her extraordinarily varied career in aviation, teaching, caring, law enforcement and politics, Corinne has followed her passions and thrown herself at life with drive, enthusiasm and purpose.
Please enjoy this conversation with the remarkable Corinne Canuel-Jolicoeur.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode has inspired you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, please squeeze the little heart below or drop a note in the comments. I’d so love to hear from you.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love and light
Michelle x
I’d love it so much if you could add your voice to the Oblivious Witness community. I want to know about the things you’ve witnessed! Please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
Feminist icons take many forms
If I had a vote in whose name should be added to icons of the feminist pantheon, I’d be casting my ballot for Chinese philosophy professor Xiaojiao Cui.
I was introduced to Xiaojiao when I was looking for someone to teach me about the ancient Chinese text, the Tao de Ching. Within minutes of meeting Xiaojiao in a cafe in Beijing, I could see that beneath the warm and empathetic exterior, lies not only a fierce intelligence and an insatiable curiosity, but also a quiet determination to live a life of her own design.
Raised by a mother whose academic ambitions had been thwarted by the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and a father who was determined that his daughter should see the world, Xiaojiao has forged a path to become one of the few female professors to ever earn a position on the philosophy faculty at the prestigious Beijing Normal University.
Xiaojiao’s intelligence and determination took her, at a very young age, from China to the United States, where she studied at Dartmouth College and Cornell University, and she has quietly followed in the feminist footsteps of famous alumni such as Ruth Bader-Ginsburg and Toni Morrison.
I’m thrilled to bring you this fascinating conversation with a woman whose quiet strength and determination are inspiring to both her students and to the wider world.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please click on the heart or drop a note in the comments… Like all good chats, this one with the wonderful Xiaojiao Cui can be used as a jumping off point for other stories, contemplations and conversations.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love and light
Michelle x
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
The first time I met Masooma Kachelo she was wearing a multi-coloured wig, fitted jeans and a white fluffy jacket with inbuilt flashing lights. And that was just the first of SO MANY spectacular incarnations of her that I’ve witnessed!
Masooma’s life has been characterised by movement, change and adaptation. Her story contains moments of darkness - please be warned that there are conversations in this episode about trauma, addiction, abduction and depression - but there is always a rich thread of light, humour and beauty running through it.
Masooma has reinvented herself more times that anyone I’ve ever met. She describes her career as having taken the shape of a snake, and like a snake, she has shed her skin many times, revealing herself to be a fashion designer, a makeup artist, a therapist and a ceremonial creatrix. She says, “Don’t worry about the what. Worry about the who. Find out who you are, and everything else will work out.”
There are so many pearls of wisdom in this beautiful conversation with Masooma. You can find out more about her work by following her on Instagram, or by emailing her directly at [email protected]
Please enjoy this conversation with the amazing Masooma Kachelo.
And I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything in this episode has inspired you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love and light
Michelle xxx
I’d love it so much if you could add your voice to the Oblivious Witness community. I want to know about the things you’ve witnessed! To receive new posts and support my work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn
PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling
Written and produced by Michelle Neeling
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe -
At last! The long-awaited podcast!
For 35 years I’ve been travelling the world, seeing extraordinary things and documenting my experiences. I’ve often thought, as I’ve talked with the incredible people I’ve been lucky enough to meet, “If only I could share this conversation with the world.” And now I can, and I’m so thrilled to share the first of those conversations with you today.
Where I’m coming from
I recorded the first season of Oblivious Witness when we were still living in Beijing, and I’m bringing it to you from our new home in Bali, Indonesia. Going from avid podcast listener to podcast creator has involved a very steep learning curve, so I hope you’ll bear with me as I find my feet!
Oblivious Witness is all about sharing the stories of people who’ve moved around the world and expanded their idea of “home” to encompass languages, cultures and lifestyles different to their own. It’s about the things they’ve witnessed while they’ve lived in different nations, how those things have changed them, and the lessons they’ve learned from moving outside of their own cultural comfort zone.
Please welcome John Gordon
In this episode, cross-cultural content creator John Gordon talks us through his early years in the United States, and tells us how he’s followed a thread of curiosity about Chinese language and philosophy as it’s led him through a decades-long career in China, where he continues to share his knowledge and enthusiasm with millions of people across the country.
John’s wisdom, kindness, humour and intelligence, as well as his years of living away from his home nation, made him a wonderful, warm and inspiring presence on Oblivious Witness, and I hope you’ll enjoy listening to his amazing story as much as I did.
I’d love to hear from you too!
If anything you’ve heard in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.
And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!
Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.
With love and light from the beach
Michelle xxx
Get full access to Oblivious Witness at michelleneeling.substack.com/subscribe
