Episoder
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Ron is back!
Turns out that even a punk band needs a lead guitar, no matter how simple some people say it is to play.
In this episode, the boys stumble onto the topic of whether safety can be a simple formula. There are some recent publications that represent it that way, but it's sort of like trying to define punk music. There are probably a million ways to describe it, and in the end, it doesn't matter anyway.
We've already covered safety metrics on PRS, but this is a little different. It's about simplifying safety to some two-dimensional BS.
Also, the formula idea is sort of bad. Using made-up numbers, constants, measures of effort, or whatever else to arrive at a safety score is mostly wasted time and maybe just harmful.
Listen to the pod for more inspiring advice!
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Josh Bryant joins the pod for this episode because Ron's out doing real work, apparently. Joshie is a big-time safety and risk guy in the mining industry, and he's Australian, so this episode gets a Frenzal Rhomb song title to match.
Not wanting to disrupt the norm of unpreparedness, the boys figured it out on the fly (even though it was Josh's job, and if he cared more, he'd have done it better).
The topic: "What's going on out in industry with all this safety stuff?"
The two guys without actual jobs are seeing a lot of the same themes, including an increasing awareness that maybe focusing all our effort on tracking safety numbers and stamping them out with bonuses or punishment isn't the best approach. Even though there is a shift in safety thinking, many of the folks doing work would say there isn't much change in how safety is actually getting done.
That's mostly where this episode goes, including some pretty good advice (and some sketchy advice) from Josh on how things have worked in his company and industry.
Josh doesn't play guitar, so PRS is just a bass and a drum kit until Ron gets back. How fucking punk is that?
Frenzal Rhomb: Digging a Hole For Myself
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Mangler du episoder?
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Shit. Things are crazy, man. As the Bad Religion song says, "Los Angeles Is Burning." Link to the song below, if you're into that sort of thing.
Seriously, though, if you're one of the 11 listeners and you're out in LA and need help, drop PRS a line at [email protected]. Punks help punks - always.
In the middle of all the chaos out on the West Coast of the US, there are some really cool stories of resilience.
So, that's what the boys are talking about in this episode. Resilience isn't something you have, it's something you do. Or maybe it's something you have. Shit. It could be either one, depending on where you look.
Maybe that's why there are so many views of resilience. In the pod, we're talking about resilience at a system level, specifically how systems can deal with failure, etc., and maintain their core function to at least an acceptable level. Like how you keep the show going after Fletcher absolutely destroys your bass or drum kit.
There's a lot of name-dropping and big words in this one, and that's mostly Ron's fault, but this is a topic where it's worth going back to Cook, Woods, Rasmussen, and so on. They're like the Sex Pistols or Ramones of resilience - everything after is built on that foundation.
So, how does that work in a normal organization? That's what the boys try to solve in just under an hour.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Don't you think Punk Rock Safety isn't taking safety seriously enough? Making jokes about safety is surely a sign that some idiot doesn't care enough, right?
Uhhh, no. And that applies to safety pros who are having a good time, laughing, and joking as they do their jobs, too.
Why aren't people saying, "Whoa, this is fucking awesome!" when the safety folks come around? If the seriousness that a lot of people think is associated with safety was working, we wouldn't be fighting to get folks' attention all the time.
If safety is supposed to be about valuing and connecting with people, then we have to bring in all the stuff that makes life interesting.
That's a big part of punk, too. Connecting with people through a common story and supporting one another even when shit gets gnarly.
Fun and serious aren't opposites, dude, and if it's boring even to the people doing it, what the hell chance do we have of being helpful?
The boys talk about safety as the "fun police" and more. It's a super serious conversation. Pinky promise.
NOFX The Idiots Are Taking Over
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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It's a Christmas miracle! We made it to 21. Seriously, though, this episode is coming out on Christmas or the day after, depending on where you are in the world. You're welcome.
Man, some weird shit's been going down in the world of CEOs lately. We promise we have nothing to do with it. But this episode does. First, it's important to point out it's not a NOFX reference this time. It is a song from Crass, though, so this one's for you if you like old-school shit.
There are a lot of references in safety about the importance of top-down support. Cool, what does that look like? If we want CEOs doing CEO shit, then we probably ought to figure out what that is. What does an executive leader owe us (besides a living, hopefully) for safety?
CEO shit is a lot about uncertainty and tradeoffs, and just maybe most other folks don't see behind the curtain to what those tradeoffs are. That's probably where safety folks come in. CEOs are usually pretty good at a lot of things. Safety isn't always one of them, so hearing about the safety implications of leadership decisions seems important.
Anyway, we probably solve it completely in this episode.
Crass: Do They Owe Us A Living?
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Sometimes bad shit happens to good people. We know it's weird, but here's another episode with a NOFX title. This time, it's a song about Tony Sly's (from No Use For a Name) death. Good dude and an awesome musician, but dead way too early.
What about when organizations that are trying really hard to do safety stuff have an accident? Or a fatality?
That can feel tough to reconcile, even though we can (and should) separate outcomes from building systems that effectively reduce safety risk. What do we do when there are emotional or political calls for something more? There's something unsatisfying about saying that sometimes shit happens. There's some tension there, and that's what the episode is about.
The boys talk about who decides what a "good" organization is and what a "bad" outcome is. Dave - the lover of zero - makes a good point about understanding the difference between doing lots of things and an actual, meaningful change to work. How do we figure our way around failures of foreign, peeling back layers of monotony, and all that other stuff.
We're biased, but we think it's a conversation worth having. You could be really good at safety management and have a fatality (and the other way around).
"What if all organizations are just as fucked as each other?" Exactly.
NOFX I'm So Sorry Tony
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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We keep forgetting (except for now, because we're definitely mentioning it) to say that there's some evidence that Fat Mike from NOFX loves the podcast. We'd go so far as to say it's his favorite pod.
We're the "Seal Team 6 of podcasts," says Ron, because there's no prep at all except Provan. That guy has always been pre-gaming.
So, the boys take on the topic of evidence-based safety, whether safety is a science or if we're just doing it for The Cause (see, there's a NOFX reference).
Who gets to decide what evidence matters? Probably Ron, because he was in school the longest of anyone. Is evidence saved for those things we don't agree with, because it sure seems that way sometimes.
Safety is a little weird in that there isn't a lot of experimental evidence, but that might be a feature, not a bug. It is a challenge though, and maybe something that makes it tough for safety professionals to know what to rely on as a sound foundation for practice.
Not sure relying on this pod as a source of knowledge is best, but you should listen anyway.
NOFX The Cause
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Yet another NOFX inspired title, huh? Yep. We're a one-trick pony around here.
The boys have finally gotten around to human error, which is a theme for this podcast anyway. Maybe there's a difference between fuck-up and error, though?
It's been a "squishy" part of understanding safety, incidents, performance, efficiency, etc. for a long time. Mostly, Ron just likes saying "squishy."
So, what is human error? Is it a legitimate concern or a red herring? Where does intent and context come into the equation? Somewhere in the mix of stupid conversation, there's some useful discussion on all of those topics and more.
What do you think? Is error just a function of random variation or is it the dumb people that are causing all the problems?
NOFX "War on Errorism"
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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This one's a little different. The title may give some of that away (and it's a Bad Religion song).
None of your three hosts are tech wizards, but Collette Alexander joins the pod, and she is (even though she might argue that).
Colette has been a professional cellist, worked in software engineering at Spotify, and earned a Master's degree from Lund University in Human Factors. She's got a lot of tattoos, too.
There's a lot of banter, but the thing this episode really looks at is how reliability in software compares to other kinds of human work. And there's some thinking about why folks in safety often look at software as a sort of savior (hint: the software people are the first ones to tell you that reliance on software is a pretty fucking bad idea).
Colette shares experience with "shallow metrics," iterative design and test environments, and what Dave has named the five Cs.
We learned a lot on this one. Software, AI, and digital safety tools are still a weird, wild world - at least if we don't understand the limitations.
Bad Religion "21st Century Digital Boy"
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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It's Episode 16, punks.
The boys start this one with a peek behind the curtain into just how much prep goes into the pod. Spoiler: not a lot. It's sort of like a punk show that way.
The topic for 16 is regulators, which means it's a great time for Pennywise's Fuck Authority (link in the show notes).
That's probably not a great way to handle regulation, though. So what can you do? Are all regulations important? Do we have to respond to each one with some sort of 'thing' we can point to to satisfy a rule, or are we just making shit up sometimes?
That's the topic when the guys can focus, but there's the usual bullshit, too. Check it out, there's actually some good stuff in there.
Pennywise "Fuck Authority"
Yep, they played it at Punk in Drublic in LA.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Alright, the First Annual PRS Field Trip was a success.
Well, Ron fucked up our TRIR, but it was a success other than that.
We recorded a short episode midway through the 3-day Punk in Drublic Festival. Ben is sleepy, Dave's jetlagged, and Ron's head hurts, but we made it.
This episode is short because we've got video of some of the live performances. Until someone complains and they get taken down.
Watch it on YouTube, ya animals. It's better that way.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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In punk, being a sellout means you've abandoned the punk rock culture: anti-authority, DIY, non-conformity, and tearing apart systems that don't work for the people.
So what happens if you shake up the idea of safety culture as a cornerstone? Fucking sellouts.
The boys talk about culture, some new publications on it, and how it's used as a lazy response to issues with safety or resilience.
And there are some discussions about how to make the culture something more than just an excuse when shit goes wrong.
Maybe it's not about selling out? You'll figure it out. Listen to the episode.
Oh, and don't forget the 1st Annual PRS Field Trip October 4-6 in LA at the Punk in Drublic Fest.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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When's the last time the outcome of a risk assessment was a surprise? Thought so.
So why do we do risk assessments, anyway? Are we really making decisions based on them? It doesn't sound like it. Is it a social process, then? Shit, man, that's a lame party.
The boys try to sort through the mess of matrices, JHAs, JSAs, safety risk committees, and all that to get to what we actually expect from an assessment of risk.
Oh, and don't forget the 1st Annual PRS Field Trip October 4-6 in LA at the Punk in Drublic Fest.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Fine. You're right. The title is also the name of a NOFX album. NOFX is rad, though, so we're keeping it.
This week, we're talking to a kickass guest, Sam Goodman, about making safety less sucky. Sam even wrote a book about it.
The truth is, a lot of people have experienced working with safety folks that just come across as assholes, or buzzkills, or cops, or knobs. It's not a surprise that most people aren't super-stoked to hear the safety person is on-site next week, right?
There are a few things that probably help dispel the myth that safety is about catching someone doing it wrong, though. That's what the lucky 13th episode is all about: what are we doing to make safety more relatable, useful, and less shitty?
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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It's episode 12, and we've got a new quote for a T-shirt, and instead of "goal conflicts," we just went with the title of the episode. Watch the merch store; we'll get it sorted.
So, safety first, right? Maybe. Sometimes. Definitely, when someone asks, I guess. Like we say in the episode, there's probably not a room of executives who hate everything safety. It'd be a weird party, though.
The boys talk through some stories, goal conflicts, impossible positions, error traps, and some other stuff that isn't exactly related but is fun anyway. It's a little tricky, and maybe the punk rock thing is just saying that "safety first" isn't possible.
Or whatever.
Come hang with the boys at the Punk In Drublic fest in LA!
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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Snake eyes, MFers!
It's episode 11, and with a minute of prep or so, we settled on figuring out if people really are the solution to things, especially safety things.
Toxic Narcotic has a song called "People Suck"
I mean, sometimes, people are assholes, right? Or dumb? Or aren't they? Sometimes some moron tries to smash a can of triple-expanding foam with a forklift.
We don't really think people suck, to be clear. We humans are actually pretty cool. But maybe we're not the only cool thing or the only solution to problems.
Toxic Narcotic, People Suck - the video is here
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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The fact that we've made it to episode 10 is sort of miraculous. Like a stage diver, you don't have to want it, but it's happening.
We're talking about contractor management—or, as Ron calls it, "cross-boundary joint activity." Ron talks about agents and stuff like that, not even in the context of Agent Orange, which is probably a better conversation.
Ok, what we're really looking at is some of the mismatch between why we hire contractors to begin with. How do we reduce friction between clients and contractors? Is it about the alignment of goals? Dave says it's mostly the client's problem since there's a power dynamic, so maybe that's why inflatable rafts at concerts are important.
Like a "glory hole" of sorts, there are perspectives from both sides of the boundary.
Want to check out Agent Orange? You're welcome: https://youtu.be/4SHIEKeubCM
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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By the time this episode comes out, Ron will have defended his doctoral dissertation, a whole lot like Milo from The Descendents did. Except Ron is cooler.
We're talking about investigations in this episode. What are they for? Ron thinks they're a little different than Dave and Ben do, but the consensus from the boys is that a lot of the espoused values of investigating don't make it into practice. Is it a process of creating closure or are we just dumb?
There's some leftover conversation after returning from CHOL, but mostly, we talk about the competing goals and outcomes from investigations of events/incidents/accidents.
What you look for is mostly what you find. So, if you've looked for this podcast, then you've found it, and you only have yourself to blame.
Here's a link to Milo Goes to College. It's a great record.
https://youtu.be/5qN3rAc5mPY
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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We said we were going to livestream, but we definitely didn't. Sorry. This shit's harder than it seems like it should be.
You should 100% check out the YouTube on this one. Other Ben did some sweet background editing because we were in a hotel meeting room with gold striped fabric walls that looked like a United Nations briefing room. That made it really fucking hard to switch the background, and Other Ben did some solid work here, so give him some love.
Uhhhh. Did we mention Ron's defense is on Friday the 28th?
https://osu.zoom.us/j/93938693366?pwd=jBaGq9xR8aC4qI6r09oCVAz9I6hSbr.1 - but mute yo self. Nobody wants to hear you breathing heavy or your stupid questions.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
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There's no better title than to make sure we've got Diane's name in it. Why? If you have to ask, go find out, then listen to the episode. There's a punk band called FEAR. Diane hasn't seen them. Anyway, fear of something different is sort of the topic for this episode.
We're posting a little early because the CHOL conference is happening this week, and we'll be live there, too.
Back to the important stuff: DCJ is kind of a big deal. Even bigger than Ron, and that's saying something. Diane shames us all by starting out with stories of going to Sex Pistol shows and pogo-ing until she could barely walk. Fucking legend.
Anyway, we talk about why safety professionals—and organizations, too—are afraid to try new things in safety. There's a lot that goes into it, and the consensus is that it's not about dumb people. Why can't we move beyond so many ideas we know aren't working the way we hoped?
So, how do we get past that fear and anxiety? Well, that's what podcasts are for, dude. Hit play and figure it out.
Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.
https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/
Let us know what you think at [email protected] or on our LinkedIn page.
Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com
- Se mer
