Episoder
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Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows.
Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process.
Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team.
Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestKyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader.
After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly.
You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - Current selling environment[04:46] - Scaling sales excellence[10:05] - Right-sizing discovery phase[12:39] - Building trust and rapport[17:53] - Transitioning from sales IC to sales leader[20:46] - The job of a sales leader[24:10] - Identifying the right people[27:47] - Standardized process vs. individual ingenuity[30:59] - Handling the pressure of sales leadership[34:55] - AEs and SDR alignment [42:47] - AI SDRs[44:59] - Sales and RevOps relationship[48:23] - Building a side hustleThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksSales Introverts
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In this episode, we unravel how advanced AI workflows can scale a truly effective outbound strategy (and not just create more spam).
Jordan Crawford shares his expertise on how to use AI to automate deep research, identify the most targeted accounts, and develop unique and relevant messaging—all without falling into the trap of reductive "AI SDR" approaches.
We also explore how to leverage AI as a thought partner, the future structure of BizDev teams, and why Clay is all the rage right now.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestJordan Crawford has been in growth for over 10 years, and for the past three and a half has been the founder of Blueprint, an agency that specializes in structuring any data from the public web about your ideal prospects. He's also been an advisor to Clay since 2021.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:59] - Changes in the outbound landscape[06:41] - How to use AI as a thought-partner [11:28] - Why AI SDRs are not the future[14:28] - AI in the writing process[20:42] - What WILL replace the SDR function[28:59] - The difference with enterprise buyers[30:34] - Signals[38:48] - Making AI plays resilient[43:04] - ClayThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksBlueprint
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You may have heard the phrase, "every company is a media company"—but what does this actually mean for B2B?
How do you go about building an audience, what content should you use, and how should you measure it?
Here to answer these questions is category-creating CMO and founder, Anthony Kennada. He helped pioneer the category of customer success as founding CMO at Gainsight, and today is helping B2B companies develop owned audiences as CEO of AudiencePlus.
Anthony is a great marketer who has thought deeply about how brands should develop relationships with audiences for the long term. This wide-ranging conversation explores many facets of how to put this into practice.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestAnthony Kennada is the co-founder and CEO of AudiencePlus—building software, content, and community to help every company become a media company.
Prior to founding AudiencePlus, he served as the CMO of companies like Hopin, Front, and Gainsight. At this last company, he and his team are credited with creating the Customer Success category.
Anthony is also the author of Category Creation: How to Build a Brand that Customers, Employees, and Investors Will Love, which debuted as a number one new release on Amazon.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:43] - Evolving through growth stages at Gainsight[06:40] - Category creation[14:09] - Why should every company be a media company? [24:31] - Metrics for audience marketing[34:47] - Partnering with content creators[40:25] - Edutainment[44:29] - Golden HourThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksWhy Every Company is Becoming a Media Company | AudiencePlus
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Quote-to-cash: it's messy, it's technical, and every project takes WAY longer than planned.
It's also absolutely vital. If you can't get quotes out the door, or if you can't collect money from your customers, you don't have a business.
Because of their complexity, these systems tend to change infrequently, and in-house operators may not get the repetitive exposure necessary to master the intricacies of CPQ or billing system projects.
So when I wanted a crash course on quote-to-cash, I turned to Nick and Tony at Hyperscayle—former operators who've built a RevOps agency with a focus on lead-to-cash operations.
We go deep into the process and systems, discuss technical gotchas, and explore the change management issues that must be addressed to make quote-to-cash work smoothly.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestsNicholas Rose is Co-Founder of Hyperscayle, a RevOps consulting firm covering lead-to-cash operations. He's previously held senior operations roles at Dell and Mendix (acquired by Siemens AG).
Tony Tarantino is Chief Architect at Hyperscayle. Previously, he was a technology consultant at Accenture and application architect at Mendix.
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:56] - Making the jump from in-house to agency[05:17] - Quote to cash definitions[10:25] - Design phase and cross-functional alignment [14:06] - When does a company need CPQ [16:41] - Why are CPQ projects so messy[22:34] - Product configuration[28:01] - Ideal tech stack[32:26] - Data quality and deal desk [36:20] - Role of RevOpsThanks to Our Sponsor
Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.
Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.
It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.
Get your free copy now:
Uptempo Planning Guide
Resource LinksHyperscayle RevOps Advisory & Implementation Services
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This week I sit down with seasoned RevOps executive Danielle Marquis to explore the evolving landscape of the discipline and how professionals can find balance and fulfillment in their careers.
Danielle shares insights from her 15 years of experience in the field, discussing how RevOps has changed over time and how the role is increasingly being positioned as a critical function within organizations. We dive into the best practices for structuring RevOps teams, prioritizing work, and aligning internal strategies for maximum impact.
As the conversation unfolds, we also explore some personal aspects of career growth, with Danielle offering candid advice on how to carve out a fulfilling path in RevOps and find your happy place at work.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestWith 15 years of experience in revenue operations, Danielle Marquis has lead global teams supporting sales, marketing, and customer success functions in achieving their goals and growing the business. Her super power is connecting the dots across various business decisions and technologies to drive and design a more operationalized path to GTM.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellemarquis/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Evolution of RevOps in the past 15 years[11:08] - Positioning RevOps internally[16:46] - Team structure[26:16] - Planning and prioritization[30:40] - Finding your happy place at work[39:40] - What’s next in RevOps[43:46] - RevOps vs. GTM OpsThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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This week I'm sharing another podcast I've guested on recently: The Revenue Marketing Report, hosted by Camela Thompson of Caliber Mind.
Camela is a veteran marketing and analytics leader, and we have an in-depth conversation about the business and cultural dimensions of reporting: what KPIs are you reporting to different audiences, data rituals, analytics storytelling, and more.
This is a super important topic for me, because how you create and share data stories in your organization can be the difference between building an executive-level presence for yourself or getting pigeon-holed as a service provider.
We'll be back to regularly scheduled programming next week, until then, enjoy the rest of your August.
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Justin Norris, host of the RevOps FM Podcast and Sr. Director of BDR and Marketing Operations at 360Learning, joins our host, Camela Thompson, Go-To-Market Thought Leader and B2B Insights Expert, in this episode of the Revenue Marketing Report.
Justin shares his insights and how years of experience sitting at the executive table representing marketing changed his views about which numbers matter most and why. They also geeked out over why MQLs are evil, how to build a ritual around data, and why B2B ops and marketing should focus more on learning from one another.
For more great content like this, check out https://calibermind.com/
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It’s August and I’m taking some time off this month to travel and recharge a bit.
But I didn’t want to leave you hanging for a whole month, so I thought it would a great time to share some recent podcasts where I’ve been featured as a guest.
First up, we have an episode on Beyond the Pipeline with Vivin Vergis, where we do a deep dive into reporting for B2B SaaS orgs.
This is a tough, thorny, sometimes painful topic, but Vivin asked some really great questions and we explore how to tell better stories with data, create a culture of objectivity, prioritize ad-hoc requests, and a whole bunch more.
Let’s dive in to the episode.
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In this episode of Beyond the Pipeline, host Vivin welcomes Justin Norris, Director of Marketing and BDR Operations at 360 Learning and host of the RevOpps FM podcast. Justin shares his journey into operations, transitioning from an English major to a pivotal figure in marketing operations. They dive deep into the challenges of reporting in B2B SaaS, discussing concepts like reporting fatigue, the importance of storytelling in data presentation, and handling impulsive reporting requests.
Justin emphasizes the need for a cultural shift towards objective data analysis and the role of ops in being accountable for business performance. Tune in to gain valuable insights on managing reporting requests, addressing cognitive biases, achieving a single source of truth, and avoiding reporting fatigue in B2B SaaS.
Timestamps:[00:02] Introduction and Justin’s Journey into Operations
Justin shares his unique path from being an English major to becoming a pivotal figure in marketing operations.[03:32] Reporting Fatigue in B2B SaaS
Discussion on the challenges of data overload and how reporting fatigue sets in within organizations.[07:22] Storytelling with Data
The importance of creating a narrative around data and how effective communication can alleviate reporting fatigue.[08:23] Handling Impulsive Reporting Requests
Strategies for filtering and prioritizing reporting requests from different teams to avoid unnecessary work.[14:38] Enabling Self-Serve Reporting
Tips on empowering teams to generate their own reports and the role of ops in making tools accessible.[19:35] Common Reporting Tools and Their Limitations
Comparing the effectiveness of tools like Salesforce, Looker, and Tableau for self-serve and advanced reporting needs.[27:58] Cognitive Bias in Reporting
Addressing the impact of biases like confirmation bias in reporting and the importance of maintaining objectivity.[35:45] Taking Action on Data Insights
The critical role of follow-through on data insights and establishing a feedback loop for continuous improvement.[39:49] Achieving a Single Source of Truth
Challenges and strategies for creating a single source of truth in organizations and the trade-offs involved.
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Enabling revenue teams to use the systems we build and maintain is a huge part of our job as revenue operators. Unfortunately for us, it often doesn’t work very well.
We create documents that no one reads.
They sit in knowledge bases that no one visits.
We're repeatedly interrupted by Slack messages from confused users.
We're forced to send Chatter reminders asking people to PLEASE follow the process for the 500th time.
Today’s guest thinks that there’s a better way to do software enablement, and he founded a company called Tango to deliver on that promise.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestDaniel Giovacchini is COO and Co-Founder at Tango, a tool for creating how-to documentation and software walkthroughs that drive digital process adoption.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-giovacchini/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - AI and changes in the tech market[06:33] - Two approaches to enablement[10:43] - Building a minimum-lovable product[20:44] - Bottom-up monetization[29:38] - Learning in the flow of work [36:37] - The knowledge management stack[40:09] - Role as COOThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksCreate software training guides, in minutes | Tango
Learn More
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Matt Volm is the founder of RevOps Co-op, a vibrant community for RevOps pros.
He shares his journey as a repeat founder, who has taken the roller-coaster of building multiple startups, and reflects on the tenacity and toughness it requires.
RevOps Co-op actually started as a community in support of a software company, but when Matt saw the need for more education and resources for the RevOps field, he pivoted and hasn't looked back.
Matt and I discuss the crucial interplay between finance and RevOps, how RevOps pros can build their finance acumen, the hot debate on unified vs. split RevOps functions, and much more.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestMatt Volm is a repeat founder and CEO of RevOps Co-op, a community for folks who love revenue operations. He's also a scout at Mucker Capital, focused on early stage B2B software. Matt has an MBA from Berkeley Haas and a background in strategic finance, operations and business development.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewvolm/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:01] - Finance and RevOps[07:01] - Developing finance literacy[10:15] - Operating during the tech bubble[12:35] - Unified vs. split RevOps[21:13] - RevOps Co-op[27:53] - Lessons learned as a repeat founder[32:00] - The community-led business model[39:05] - What’s next for RevOps?Thanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksRevOps Co-opI just shut down my startup. Here’s what I learned.
Learn More
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Content has been the lifeblood of how B2B companies go to market for at least 20 years, since Hubspot pioneered the concept of Inbound Marketing.
We make content, we drip it out, we nurture people with it, we align it with our funnels, and we have a conviction that it makes people buy things—although that's also quite difficult to prove.
The content game is not going anywhere, but it IS changing. And to guide us through those changes, we're chatting today with B2B content expert Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian.
Ashley challenges traditional content mapping to the B2B funnel and introduces the idea of a "content playground" where people engage with content in a way that suits them best in a non-linear, non-standard journey.
She also delves into the different intents behind content (buy, use, help, trust), the different levels of content (conceptual, strategic, tactical), the nuances between individual and brand-led content, and the growing role of B2B creators.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestAshley Faus is a marketer, writer, speaker by day, and a singer, actor, fitness fiend by night.
She's a leading content marketing expert who loves telling the high-level stories that resonate with an audience and connecting the dots between types of assets and distribution channels. For the past seven years, she's been the Head of Lifecycle Marketing, Portfolio, at Atlassian.
Her writing has been published on TIME, Forbes, MarketingProfs, and The Muse, and she's spoken on various marketing topics for INBOUND, Harvard Business Review, and MarketingProfs.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyfaus/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:17] - A brief history of content marketing[04:41] - Over-indexing on attribution[08:55] - Different types of content intent [15:42] - Individual vs. brand-led content[19:12] - B2B creators[29:24] - The content playground [45:52] - Email as a consumption channel[49:02] - Treating people as a whole human[51:47] - Content formats[54:54] - AIResource LinksCreate a “Content Playground” that’s Fun for Buyers (and Lucrative for You)
Learn More
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In this week's episode, we delve into the evolving landscape of sales with Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and a renowned expert in go-to-market strategies.
We begin by reflecting on the "Golden Age of SaaS," a period defined by rapid growth but also unsustainable business dynamics. As market conditions shift, we explore how revenue teams must adapt to thrive in the current environment.
AI is becoming an integral part of the sales industry. Jacco shares his insights on how AI will transform sales roles, automating many tasks that currently consume significant time and resources and shrinking the number of jobs.
Revenue Operations has a crucial role in this changing landscape, as the only function positioned to optimize the end-to-end buying process.
Join us for a thoughtful discussion on the past, present, and future of sales, and gain valuable insights from one of the industry's leading minds.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestJacco van der Kooij is an internationally renowned author, business leader, and thought leader on revenue growth and strategy. He is the founder of Winning By Design, a global B2B revenue consulting and training company, which consults for and trains GTM teams at companies such as Uber Eats, DocuSign, MURAL and OwnBackup.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaccovanderkooij/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:27] - The Golden Age of SaaS[04:21] - The old style vs. the new style of buying[08:34] - Adapting to the new reality[16:19] - Sales rockstars vs. consistent process[19:01] - The role of RevOps in establishing repeatability[26:50] - How to get salespeople to follow process [32:06] - AI vs. humans in sales[46:14] - Increasing focus on delivering impactThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksWinning by Design Resource LibraryRevenue Architecture Book, by Jacco van der KooijThe Revenue Formula Podcast - The SaaS Reset and what's nextMarc Andreeson - Why Software is Eating the...
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Is the future of SaaS growth product-led or sales-led? What if it's both? Zapier uses PLG to create an ecosystem of users and product signals which then drives their sales-led outreach.
Coordinating these motions in parallel takes technical sophistication, great communication, and tight process. Fortunately, they have a unified RevOps team that keeps everyone on the same page.
This week we chat with Lindsay Rothlisberger, Director of RevOps at Zapier, about how her team helps the magic happen.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestLindsay Rothlisberger is a dedicated Revenue Operations Leader with a background enriched in marketing. She thrives on transforming ideas into strategies that improve the customer experience and business metrics. She currently serves as Director of Revenue Operations at Zapier, and has previously held marketing positions at UNiDAYS, Oracle, and Blackboard.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-rothlisberger/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:59] - The RevOps scope at Zapier [02:52] - Blending PLG and Sales-Led Funnels [15:11] - How RevOps helps coordinate different GTM motions[22:19] - Org and reporting structure [28:49] - Planning and prioritization[34:05] - Tech stack and governance[41:07] - Tracking signals and CRM architectureThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksHow Zapier created a centralized revenue operations team
Learn More
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B2B buying signals are generating a lot of buzz right now—and for good reason.
In today's challenging selling environment, conversion rates are dipping, and identifying active buyers has become more critical than ever. Signal vendors offer a promising solution, but the questions remain: Are these signals truly transformative? How can they enhance your go-to-market strategy? And what the heck is a "signal" anyhow?
In this episode, Chris Walker joins me to demystify the concept of buying signals. With his characteristic clarity and candor, Chris sheds light on why he's emphasizing signals as a key driver for efficient growth.
Regular listeners will know Chris as a significant influence on my thinking. I’ve learned a lot from him over the years, making it a true pleasure to finally have him on the show.
Tune in as we cut through the noise and delve into the real impact of B2B buying signals.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestChris Walker is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market thought leader. In 2019 he founded Refine Labs, the leading B2B Digital Marketing and Demand Generation agency, growing it to an 8-figure revenue business with a dominating digital presence in less than 3 years. In 2024 he launched Passetto, a tech-enabled GTM Strategy Consultancy that helps B2B executives identify and execute against their highest priority growth levers with confidence and clarity. Chris is host of B2B Revenue Vitals (formerly State of Demand Gen), one of the top marketing and GTM podcasts.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:34] - Shifting focus to signals[08:03] - What is a signal?[11:59] - The signal data layer[18:12] - Connection between demand creation and signals[21:13] - Landscape of signal tools[24:39] - Identifying high-converting signals[36:25] - Inbound vs. outbound [40:34] - How RevOps can level upThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
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Thanks to our friends at Hatch for producing this episode. Get unlimited podcast editing at www.hatch.fm
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I have a fascination with how SaaS products actually get made—especially those that become institutions in the software landscape.
As users, we become deeply familiar with these products, the nitty-gritty of how they work, and what it's like to live inside them. People base entire careers on these platforms.
What we usually DON'T see is the backstory:
How do these great products get designed? What were the decisions and trade-offs along the way? How do they catch on?How do you create lovable features? What causes great products to often stagnate?Today's guest is a legendary product leader and innovator. As the first employee of Marketo, Glen Lipka led the product team during a critical early phase, building many of its still most-beloved features.
This episode is packed with Marketo lore, product design insights, and lessons about how to build a product that users love.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestGlen Lipka is a 25+ year veteran of product innovation and design. As Chief Design Officer and first employee at Marketo, he built the flagship product. He has held numerous other product leadership roles and is currently VP of Product Design for Crowdstrike.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenlipka/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:14] - Glen’s start at Marketo[02:56] - Marketo’s first features[13:36] - Product differentiation[20:37] - Developing the concept of marketing automation[26:00] - Why great products start to suck[40:46] - Hubspot as a product company[44:19] - AIResource LinksGlen's series of retrospective articles on building MarketoGlen's personal blog
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What does it take to scale a company from $100M to over $1B in ARR?
Cody Guymon has taken a journey that most revenue operators could only dream of—helping Qualtrics scale to an $8B acquisition and then a $27B IPO. Now he's back at an earlier stage company, hoping to repeat the trip all over again.
We chat through his lessons learned, his forecasting methodology, and how he architected a unified RevOps function with the CEO before joining Workato.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestCody Guymon is a strategic sales and operations leader, leading teams at Vivint, Qualtrics, and now Workato. He helped scale Qualtrics from a $1B unicorn to an $8B SAP acquisition and then through an IPO at a $20B+ valuation. Today he serves as the COO of GTM Operations at Workato.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyguymon/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:07] - What is GTM operations?[03:50] - Working 1-1 with reps in the field[04:46] - Creating a truly unified GTM ops function[16:56] - Go-to-market analytics[19:16] - Pros and cons of unification [23:29] - Project planning and prioritization[30:17] - Forecasting and thinking long-term[39:24] - Experience at Qualtrics and SAP[47:03] - Cody’s daily routinesThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
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There's a set of skills we rely on everyday at work, often without realizing it: how we think about problems, make decisions, market our ideas, manage up, give feedback...they're all part of the operating system of how we interface with the business world.
I’m fascinated by these things both because they have a massive impact on our effectiveness and because they often go unexamined. They’re just part of how we operate. But what if our ways of working are holding us back? What if we could optimize them and radically improve our performance?
Today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, marketer, and operator. These days she focuses on exploring and writing about these "deceivingly basic" topics in one of my favourite newsletters, which reaches more than 250,000 people.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestWes Kao is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, and advisor who writes at newsletter.weskao.com. She is co-founder of Maven, an edtech company that raised $25M from First Round and Andreessen Horowitz. Previously, she co-founded the altMBA with bestselling author Seth Godin.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/weskao/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - Why write about “deceivingly basic” topics [06:56] - Rigorous thinking[10:43] - Building a culture of rigorous thinking [21:10] - Bottom line up front[26:39] - Relationship with your manager[37:23] - Change management[41:32] - Empathy[44:09] - Being a LinkedIn creatorThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksWes Kao's Newsletter
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Running business systems at enterprise scale has some unique challenges—especially when that enterprise is Hubspot.
Today we're fortunate to chat with Rich Archbold, whose team supports all GTM systems and automation at Hubspot, including Hubspot's own Hubspot implementation.
This is a truly fascinating peek behind the scenes at one of the most iconic tech companies. Rich also shares generously from his deep experience, providing insights into how to foster a culture of agility, customer-centricity, and impact within a business systems team.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestRich Archbold is VP of Engineering for GTM Systems at Hubspot. He is passionate about building and scaling high-performing, highly engaged teams that build and operate world-class, mission-critical technology products and services. Prior to Hubspot, he held business systems and engineering leadership roles at Intercom, Facebook, and Amazon.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardarchbold/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Transitioning from engineering to business systems[10:42] - GTM systems team structure at Hubspot[15:17] - Centralized vs. decentralized systems ownership[20:51] - Hubspot’s tech stack[23:02] - Can Hubspot work at enterprise scale?[25:11] - Hubspot Prospecting Workspace[31:16] - Use of Workato[33:24] - Lead processing systems[36:23] - Data quality[46:22] - PrioritizationThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource Links6 things I learned the hard way leading business systems
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I'm a really big believer in the idea of a unified RevOps function supporting all the go-to-market teams.
But I'll be honest, sometimes it's a little discouraging when I look at how RevOps is done in practice, because outside of a few examples, I usually see essentially a sales ops function with a new name.
So I wanted to find people who are actually leading a unified RevOps team in the real world and to understand how they're doing it and how it's working out for them.
Today's guest is leading a very mature RevOps function at Electric and has a ton of practical insight to share.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestJulia Kim is VP of Revenue Operations for Electric and an Adjunct Instructor at Columbia University. She has over 10 years experience as an operations executive and has launched award-winning consumer and SaaS products mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Forrester, and TechCrunch.
Before Electric, she led GTM operations for 4 profitable acquisitions. In addition to her RevOps experience, she has a technical background with a recent focus in artificial intelligence and predictive data modelling.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliajuleskim/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:50] - Definition of Revenue Operations[03:40] - RevOps at different stages of maturity[09:09] - Deep dive on Julia’s team structure[14:00] - Collaboration within the RevOps team[21:52] - Addressing concerns about unifying the ops functions[28:07] - Identifying biggest opportunities for impact[37:19] - Relationship with data team [40:11] - Change management and enablement[47:37] - RevOps and AI[55:11] - What’s a current challenge?Thanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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Every company pays lip service to privacy. But few seem to really value it in practice.
In marketing and sales, we rely on personal and behavioural data for so many commonplace tactics, and this reliance is only increasing.
It's a kind of arms race. Even if you wanted to, it feels like you can't afford to give up the perceived advantages of using personal data.
And even as we continually hear about the "death" of this or that type of tracking, the reality is that hundreds of billions of advertising revenue are on the line. The incentives to keep collecting and commodifying our data are huge.
I wanted to dig deeper into the current state of privacy in marketing today, and I could think of no better person to reach out to than Stephane Hamel.
He is a legendary practitioner and thought leader in the digital analytics space and one of the foremost advocates for privacy and ethics in marketing.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestStephane Hamel is a digital analytics and marketing expert with over 35 years experience. He has spoken at over 150 industry events and was named one of the Most Influential Industry Contributors by the Digital Analytics Association. As an educator, he’s taught thousands of students at institutions including UBC, SimpliLearn, ULaval, Harvard, YorkU, and others. In recent years, he’s focused his attention on the ethical use of data in a marketing context
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shamel/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Current state of privacy in marketing[03:30] - Vision of a truly privacy-oriented company[08:20] - How a 100% consent-based model would work[10:59] - Is privacy-respecting marketing better marketing?[13:26] - Analogy of seatbelts[17:32] - Getting people to care about privacy [20:50] - Advertising in a privacy-first world[24:21] - Conflict between privacy and commercial interests [31:41] - Google and the “death” of third-party cookies[36:47] - AI literacy [41:44] - Career impact of being privacy-orientedLearn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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Refine Labs has had a seismic impact on B2B marketing.
Whether you agree with their philosophy or not, it's hard to deny its influence. They've set the agenda, defined the terms of the debate, and challenged many aspects of the status quo.
Former CEO Chris Walker catapulted the agency to prominence with his LinkedIn thought leadership. But behind the scenes, there's also been an intricate operational odyssey to scale Refine Labs from scratch to nearly 100 employees.
Today's guest, Megan Bowen, partnered with Chris from the beginning as COO before taking over as CEO in January of 2024. In this no-holds-barred episode, she shares an operational perspective on building Refine Labs, with candid stories and insights about scaling a service-based business, riding the hyper-growth rollercoaster, and weathering economic storms.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestOver her 20+ year career, Megan Bowen has built and scaled go-to-market teams at eChalk, ZocDoc, Grubhub/Seamless (IPO: 2014), ManagedbyQ (WeWork Acquisition: 2019) and Platterz.
In 2020, she teamed up with the Founder of Refine Labs to change the way B2B companies go-to-market.
Today, she is the CEO of Refine Labs, A B2B Demand Generation Agency.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganwhitebowen/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:32] - Megan’s background[07:06] - Building Refine Labs[14:15] - Stepping into the CEO role [16:34] - Prioritizing the health of your team [21:56] - Segmenting clients and service levels[23:54] - Packaging, pricing, and service design[25:46] - Transparency in the sales process[27:43] - Achieving consistent service quality when scaling the team [31:21] - Onboarding process [31:59] - Balancing supply and demand in agency staffing[35:23] - Transparency around layoffs[37:12] - Evolution of Refine Labs methodology[40:36] - Partnership with AspireshipResource LinksRefine Labs | Leading B2B Demand Generation AgencyRefine Labs x Aspireship - Get subsidized access to the Refine Labs IP library with Aspireship.
Learn More
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- Se mer
