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This week we welcome Jane Oxley, Chief Revenue Officer at Smokeball, to discuss the pivotal role of communication in legal organizations and how AI is transforming legal practice management. While normally in Australia, we were lucky enough to find Jane while she was working in Chicago, Jane shares her global perspective on communication challenges, bridging time zones, and the creative ways Smokeball leverages technology to streamline law firm operations. Co-host, Greg Lambert kicked off the show by introducing the concept of “Lambert’s Law,” highlighting that “all problems are communication problems,” setting the tone for an insightful discussion on organizational efficiency.
Jane explains how effective communication structures can reveal the health of an organization, whether through Slack’s rapid exchanges or more traditional law firm channels like email and face-to-face meetings. She notes the unique challenges faced by smaller firms, particularly their focus on casework over internal collaboration. Smokeball addresses these needs by integrating AI tools that help firms manage cases, streamline communication, and reduce administrative burdens, allowing lawyers to feel more in control of their workflows.
Jane Oxley and Marlene Gebauer also discuss the role of AI in enhancing productivity and profitability. Jane describes Smokeball's AI tool, Archie, which helps automate document creation, email drafting, and summarization tasks. With AI handling routine work, lawyers can dedicate more time to client interaction and higher-value tasks. This shift not only increases efficiency but also helps smaller firms bill more accurately for their time—a long-standing challenge in the legal industry.
Addressing the potential impact of AI on the billable hour, Jane shares her perspective on the slow but inevitable shift toward value-based billing. She emphasizes that while AI enhances efficiency, widespread change in billing models requires education and a mindset shift. Some firms have begun experimenting with alternative billing structures, but the transition is gradual and nuanced, varying by practice area. Ultimately, AI tools empower firms to deliver better client service and justify their fees confidently.
Finally, the discussion highlights ethical considerations in adopting AI, particularly regarding client data privacy and regulatory compliance. Jane advises firms to be vigilant in choosing trusted AI providers and implementing safeguards. She predicts that AI will amplify client expectations for efficiency and responsiveness, but the human side of law—empathy, communication, and trust—will remain irreplaceable. By embracing AI to manage routine tasks, firms can focus on delivering exceptional client experiences, making the human element the true winner in this evolving landscape.
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Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca -
This week, we talk with Elena Tsalanidis and Justin Hansky, co-founders of Deeligence, a revolutionary due diligence workflow tool. Hailing from Australia, this dynamic duo delves into the challenges of traditional due diligence processes and how their AI-powered platform aims to streamline and optimize legal workflows for greater efficiency and accuracy.
Elena Tsalanidis and Justin Hansky share their personal journeys that led to the creation of Deeligence. From Elena’s background in human rights litigation and her experience working at Buckingham Palace, to Justin’s tenure as an M&A lawyer, their combined expertise and insights have laid the foundation for an innovative solution in legal tech. Their unique approach to addressing inefficiencies in due diligence is rooted in their deep understanding of both the practice and business of law.
The hosts and guests explore the skepticism surrounding generative AI in the legal field, including transparency and the accuracy of outputs. Elena and Justin emphasize that Deeligence prioritizes clarity and user trust by integrating human oversight into the process. They outline how their platform simplifies document review, reduces the need for exhaustive scoping, and enables legal professionals to identify key contract provisions quickly and confidently.
Implementing new technologies in law firms often encounters resistance due to entrenched practices and security concerns. The Deeligence team discusses their strategies for encouraging adoption, from ensuring ease of use to providing verifiable results. They also highlight the importance of fostering internal champions who recognize the value of modern tools in enhancing legal service delivery and client satisfaction.
Deeligence challenges the traditional billable hour model by enhancing the efficiency of tasks like due diligence. The platform allows firms to offer fixed-fee models without compromising the quality of their work, enabling them to surface critical issues across all documents instead of relying on selective reviews. This shift promotes more comprehensive client outcomes and cost predictability, marking a significant transformation in how legal services are delivered.
Looking ahead, Elena and Justin discuss their aspirations for Deeligence, including expanding into international markets like the US and UK. They express their commitment to staying at the forefront of legal tech innovation, continually improving their platform to meet evolving industry needs. Their insights underscore a broader trend of specialized, user-focused AI solutions redefining the legal landscape.
Listeners are invited to connect with Elena and Justin to learn more about Deeligenceand its impact on legal workflows. This episode provides a compelling look into how technology and a fresh perspective can address long-standing challenges in the legal profession.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaTRANSCRIPT
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[Ed Note: We were holding off on publishing this episode because we were waiting on the official announcement that Kara Peterson and Rich DiBona of Descrybe.ai were the Silver Anthem Award winners in Best Use of AI from the International Academy of Digital Arts & Sciences! Congratulations to Kara and Rich for the prestigious award! - GL]
In this episode of "The Geek in Review," we welcome Kara Peterson and Richard DiBona, the dynamic married duo behind Descrybe.ai. Descrybe is an AI-powered legal tool aimed at democratizing access to legal information, particularly by providing summarized legal decisions that make case law more accessible to everyone. The conversation centers around how Descrybe was created, its mission, and the challenges and opportunities involved in developing a legal tech tool that truly serves its users.
Kara and Rich share the story of how Descrybe began as a personal project sparked by a challenging legal issue they faced themselves. Rich, a software engineer, started experimenting with AI summarization of judicial opinions and was struck by how well it worked. Over time, this experiment evolved into Descrybe—a platform that not only delivers quick case law summaries but also enhances accessibility through simplified language and multilingual support. They delve into the technical challenges of managing massive datasets of judicial opinions and ensuring that their platform remains accurate and reliable.
The development of Descrybe has been heavily influenced by user feedback, which Kara and Rich emphasize throughout the episode. They explain how advisory feedback has been instrumental in shaping key features, such as Spanish translations and simplified summaries, which make the platform more accessible to non-native English speakers and those with varying levels of reading proficiency. Their genuine commitment to evolving the product based on user needs is a core aspect of Descrybe's mission to democratize legal information.
A particularly intriguing segment of the episode focuses on Rich's perspective on the legal tech market and his skepticism regarding companies that label their offerings as "LLMs" (large language models) without meeting the threshold of a true LLM. Kara adds her insights on the broader mission of Descrybe: not only to innovate within legal tech but also to address access to justice as a public health issue. They both underscore the importance of responsible AI development, ensuring that new technology genuinely benefits society rather than exacerbating existing inequalities.
Towards the end of the episode, Kara and Rich discuss the future of AI in the legal industry and the role Descrybe aims to play. They express optimism that AI can be a powerful force for improving the legal system, especially if it is used to automate lower-level tasks and free up lawyers to focus on more impactful work. They also highlight the potential for AI to facilitate alternative dispute resolutions, diverting some cases from the courts altogether. Kara concludes on a hopeful note, emphasizing that if the right choices are made now, AI could be a driving force for positive systemic change within the legal field.
This conversation with Kara Peterson and Richard DiBona offers a candid, behind-the-scenes look at building Descrybe—a legal tech solution driven by a mission to improve access to justice. Their commitment to making complex legal information understandable for everyone shines through, making this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of technology, law, and social good.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaTRANSCRIPT
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This week we welcome Tom Martin, founder of LawDroid, a pioneering AI platform aimed at transforming legal workflows through automation and no-code solutions. Tom shares his journey from practicing law to creating LawDroid, which supports legal professionals with tools designed to streamline tasks, enhance client communication, and automate document preparation. Throughout the conversation, Tom emphasizes how LawDroid is reshaping legal tech and access to justice, especially for underserved communities, by integrating generative AI and language processing into accessible, customizable applications.
Tom dives into the advantages of generative AI in legal practice, noting how tools like LawDroid take the heavy lifting out of document summarization, drafting, and other language-intensive tasks. He describes how AI-driven “agents” provide round-the-clock assistance to clients, effectively extending support beyond traditional working hours. The discussion also covers Tom’s views on AI’s potential to increase accessibility in the legal field, particularly through collaborations with legal aid organizations, allowing individuals to quickly find information and resources following natural disasters or legal challenges.
Beyond practical tools, Tom discusses how LawDroid leverages no-code options, enabling law firms of all sizes to customize solutions without heavy technical knowledge. He highlights LawDroid's AI receptionist, lead capture bots, and document automation features, which empower legal professionals to serve clients more efficiently and affordably. Tom also shares insights into how LawDroid’s adaptability allows it to serve various legal practices, from estate planning to client intake processes, with options for those looking for hands-on or fully supported implementations.
The conversation further explores the implications of AI on the legal profession’s future, including both the potential for job transformation and the significant efficiency gains that AI brings. Tom reassures listeners that while AI may shift certain roles, it ultimately enhances lawyers' ability to focus on complex and meaningful work, opening doors for expanded client bases and reduced costs for legal representation. He also speaks to data security, underscoring LawDroid’s commitment to protecting client data and privacy in compliance with ethical standards.
To conclude, Tom shares his thoughts on the importance of fostering a collaborative legal tech community, reflected in his co-founding of the Legal Technology Awards. He underscores the need to continually recognize leaders in the industry who are committed to social impact, innovation, and improving access to justice. As the interview wraps up, Tom looks forward to future developments in AI, advocating for an inclusive legal system that leverages technology to guarantee access to justice for all.
For more insights from Tom Martin and to learn about LawDroid, check out the links below.
Links & Resources
LawDroid website LawDroid Manifesto on Substack Follow LawDroid on social media: @LawDroidListen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaTRANSCRIPT
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This week we welcome back Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions to discuss their latest innovation, the PROWESS platform. This newly launched tool aims to transform the way corporate legal departments manage and evaluate their relationships with outside counsel. As Leopard Solutions embarks on this new phase after its acquisition by SurePoint, Laura and Phil delve into how PROWESS brings unprecedented capabilities to legal teams by centralizing data, enhancing decision-making, and simplifying the selection process of legal talent.
Laura explains that the PROWESS platform was born out of the need to streamline the outdated methods many in-house legal teams use to locate outside counsel. Rather than relying on personal contacts or spreadsheets, PROWESS leverages Leopard Solutions' extensive database of over 6,000 law firms to offer data-driven insights. The platform allows legal departments to search for attorneys and law firms by specialization, diversity metrics, and even billing structures, providing a comprehensive overview that helps corporate counsel make informed, strategic choices for their legal needs.
One of the key features of PROWESS is its 360-degree firm report and ranking system, powered by Leopard Solutions' unique data-driven methodology. Phil explains how the platform’s rankings go beyond traditional metrics, focusing on firm growth, retention, and diversity within the attorney ranks. By incorporating continuous updates and client feedback, the ranking system serves as a real-time indicator of a firm’s standing in the market. Over time, the platform will enable in-house teams to provide feedback on engagements, further refining the rankings and enabling firms to showcase the quality of their work.
The PROWESS platform also offers law firms an opportunity to proactively market their strengths. Law firms can contribute their own data to the platform, such as alternative fee arrangements and attorney billing rates, which helps them stand out in searches. Laura and Phil highlight how this “passive marketing” tool allows firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, as corporate clients can explore and assess options they may not have previously considered. Phil emphasizes that this feature is particularly valuable for smaller and mid-sized firms, allowing them to compete alongside larger firms by showcasing their specific expertise.
In closing, Laura and Phil share their vision for the future of PROWESS. They envision it evolving into a more comprehensive marketplace, potentially allowing firms to bid on posted matters. Both are excited about the potential for increased transparency and efficiency in the legal industry as PROWESS matures, facilitating stronger relationships between law firms and in-house legal teams. With plans to integrate AI-driven features and client feedback mechanisms, Leopard Solutions is poised to shape the future of legal talent management and engagement.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca -
This week we welcome Tim Follett, the founder and CEO of Structure Flow, a visual structuring tool designed specifically for lawyers. The conversation begins with a light-hearted discussion about recent events each attended. Greg shares his experience at the KM&I conference in New York, while Tim recounts his time at the Legal Geek conference in London. Marlene, not to be left out, talks about participating in Houston's Biketoberfest at the ION innovation hub and her insightful presentation with Ian Wilson from Servient on eDiscovery workflow.
Tim delves into his experience at Legal Geek, highlighting the festival-like atmosphere and the palpable momentum within the legal tech ecosystem. He notes a significant increase in focus on AI and legal technology, emphasizing how these tools are becoming integral in the industry. The diversity and growth of the event reflect the expanding interest and investment in legal tech solutions worldwide.
The discussion transitions to the critical role of data visualization in the legal sector. Tim explains how his frustrations as a corporate attorney—particularly the tedious process of creating structure charts in PowerPoint—led him to develop Structure Flow. He underscores the importance of visual tools in capturing and communicating complex information, making it more accessible and understandable. Visualizing relationships and connections help lawyers cut through complexity, a necessity in today's intricate legal landscape.
Exploring the integration of AI, Tim describes how Structure Flow leverages artificial intelligence to enhance data visualization. By using large language models, the platform can automate the translation of written language into visual diagrams, effectively reducing manual workload and increasing efficiency. This capability is particularly useful in tasks like legal entity rationalization, where visualizing extensive data sets can be daunting and time-consuming.
Looking ahead, Tim shares his vision for the future of visualization tools in the legal industry. He envisions a seamless, interconnected tech stack where lawyers can initiate new matters with AI assistance, pulling in all necessary information and working across multiple platforms through a unified interface. This integrated approach aims to reduce mental load, improve collaboration, and ultimately transform how legal professionals interact with complex data. The episode concludes with Tim's enthusiasm about expanding Structure Flow's presence in the U.S. market, bolstered by recent Series A funding, and his insights into the evolving landscape of legal technology.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaTranscript
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This week, we talk with a team of innovation leaders from the law firm Faegre Drinker. The guests included Shawn Swearingen, Chief Innovation Officer; David Gross, Design Lab co-founder; and Ruben Gonzalez, Design Lab Director. The discussion centered around the relaunch of Faegre Drinker's Legal Design Lab in Scottsdale, Arizona, exploring its origins, evolution, and impact on legal problem-solving.
The Legal Design Lab's inception traces back eight or nine years when an associate at the firm, Helen Chacon, reconnected with her Stanford Law School friend Margaret Hagan, who was pioneering the concept of legal design. Intrigued by the idea of applying design thinking—a user-focused, empathetic approach to problem-solving long used in other industries—to the legal field, the firm embarked on a deep dive into the methodology. This included David (DJ) Gross auditing courses at Stanford's D-School and team members like Kate Rozavi designing courses on visual advocacy at the University of Minnesota Law School.
The relaunch and relocation of the Design Lab to Scottsdale were influenced by several factors, notably the firm's merger that expanded its geographic footprint and the practical considerations brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic. The move allowed the firm to acquire a significantly larger and more cost-effective space. With input from architects, designers, and Margaret Hagan herself, the new lab was designed to be a flexible, creative environment featuring movable furniture and an industrial aesthetic, fostering collaboration and innovation.
Throughout the podcast, the team shared concrete examples of how design thinking has been instrumental in solving complex legal challenges. One such example involved simplifying a profitability tool for lawyers by using a color-coded system akin to credit score reports, making it more accessible and actionable. Another highlighted the use of tennis balls to demystify crystallography during a jury trial, showcasing how visual aids and empathetic explanations can lead to successful outcomes. These instances underscore the lab's focus on user-centric solutions and visual advocacy to enhance understanding and efficiency in legal processes.
The guests also discussed the challenges of integrating design thinking within the traditional legal framework, particularly in encouraging open-mindedness and collaborative participation among lawyers and clients. They emphasized the importance of a learning mindset, active listening, and the willingness to embrace creativity and risk-taking. To further disseminate these ideas, the team mentioned an eBook available on their website, aimed at introducing legal professionals to design thinking and visual advocacy concepts.
Links:
Faegre Drinker Design Lab video Faegre Drinker Picks Arizona for the Next-Gen Design Lab, American Lawyer E-book – Design Thinking and Visual Advocacy for Lawyers Two Point Oh! (FREE) Innovations in Visual Advocacy – Leading the way for design thinking in law, Harvard Law School Center on the Legal Profession. Advancing Company Goals – Design sprints that unlock Innovation, Corporate Counsel.Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
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In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert are joined by Carolyn Austin, Director of Practice Innovation at K&L Gates; Brendan McDonnell, Partner at K&L Gates; and Abdi Shayesteh, CEO of AltaClaro. The conversation delves into innovative legal education strategies and the integration of generative AI in legal practice, highlighting how experiential learning platforms are shaping the future of legal training.
Abdi introduces AltaClaro's experiential learning platform, designed to make lawyers practice-ready through simulation-based training. Utilizing a "Learn, Do, Review" methodology, the platform presents associates with real-world assignments, provides feedback from seasoned practitioners, and facilitates live review sessions. This approach aims to build confidence, enhance critical thinking skills, and improve efficiency among legal professionals by immersing them in practical scenarios that mirror actual legal work.
Brendan discusses K&L Gates' longstanding commitment to innovation and education within the legal industry. He reflects on the firm's history of embracing technology—such as developing one of the first e-discovery platforms—and its proactive stance on integrating generative AI into legal workflows. Recognizing the transformative potential of AI, K&L Gates formed an AI Solutions Group to prepare attorneys and allied professionals for the technological advancements reshaping legal practice.
Carolyn explains how K&L Gates collaborated with AltaClaro to develop specialized training programs focused on generative AI, including prompt engineering and supervisory courses. These programs address the challenges partners and managers face when integrating AI tools into their workflows, emphasizing ethical considerations, risk assessment, and effective supervision. The partnership ensures that all firm members, from associates to senior partners, are equipped with the necessary skills to use AI responsibly and effectively.
The guests explore the broader implications of AI adoption in the legal field, discussing challenges such as change management, ethical obligations, and the need for data-driven practices. They highlight the importance of fostering a culture of continuous learning and collaboration to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving industry. Looking toward the future, they express optimism about AI's potential to enhance legal services, improve access to justice, and drive innovation, emphasizing the critical role of education and adaptability in this transformation.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
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This episode of "The Geek in Review" explores MinterEllison's strategic adoption of Microsoft Copilot, delving into the practical implications and challenges of implementing generative AI within the legal industry. Guests Amber O'Meara, Head of Innovation, and Tim Andrews, Director of IT Operations, discuss the firm's multifaceted approach to generative AI, emphasizing its potential to enhance client experiences, boost productivity, and empower their legal professionals by automating mundane tasks and allowing them to focus on more complex legal work. This strategic vision, endorsed by the firm's leadership, drove their decision to participate in the Copilot Early Access Program, providing valuable insights and shaping their implementation strategy.
One of the key takeaways is MinterEllison’s measured and strategic rollout of Copilot. Rather than a firm-wide deployment, they opted for a phased approach, prioritizing specific personas and departments that would benefit most from the technology. Initial challenges included data jurisdiction limitations, the inherent "fear factor" of adopting new technology, and user inertia stemming from unmet expectations. The firm addressed these obstacles through a comprehensive training program, incorporating a dedicated "Gen AI Time" initiative, collaborative sessions with Microsoft, and a "reverse mentoring" program for partners. This multifaceted approach, coupled with internal communication and a knowledge-sharing platform, fostered enthusiasm and addressed concerns, leading to impressive user satisfaction and reported time savings.
MinterEllison's training program played a crucial role in the successful adoption of Copilot. Combining internally developed resources with vendor-provided training, the program addressed both the technical aspects of using Copilot and the art of prompt engineering. The firm’s innovative approach of dedicating fee-credited time for generative AI training proved highly effective, incentivizing participation and demonstrating leadership commitment. This investment in their people, combined with gamification elements like their internal “Mint Coin” cryptocurrency, fostered a competitive spirit and encouraged active engagement in the learning process.
Finally, the conversation touches on the broader impact of generative AI on the legal industry. MinterEllison envisions a future where AI tools are widely adopted, reshaping traditional law firm models and creating new roles focused on innovation and technology. They emphasize the importance of ongoing collaboration, both internally and within the legal community, to address client privacy concerns, share best practices, and navigate the evolving landscape of AI in law. The firm's commitment to responsible AI usage, guided by their “Lighthouse Principles” and an AI steering committee, underscores their dedication to ethical implementation and client data security. They also see the potential for generative AI to contribute to access to justice initiatives and support social impact work, highlighting the transformative potential of these technologies beyond the traditional boundaries of legal practice.
Links:
Amber (Burgess) O'Meara | LinkedIn
Tim Andrews | LinkedIn
MinterEllison: Overview | LinkedIn
MinterEllison - MinterEllison
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript
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This week, we welcome back Serena Wellen, Vice President of Product Management at LexisNexis Legal and Professional, to discuss the newly launched Lexis Protégé tool. This advanced AI assistant is designed to enhance legal professionals' workflows by personalizing responses based on individual user profiles, including practice areas, jurisdictions, and document management systems. Wellen emphasizes that the future of AI lies in personalization, enabling Protégé to understand user habits and preferences, thereby improving its utility in legal settings.
Serena elaborates on how Protégé collects user data and integrates with existing document management systems (DMS). The setup process includes heavy lifting from LexisNexis, ensuring that the AI understands user roles and permissions, and can access relevant documents seamlessly. She stresses the importance of transparency and user control in the personalization process, allowing users to opt in or out of certain features as they see fit. This approach ensures that the use of Protégé aligns with the unique needs of individual law firms and practitioners.
Integration with Microsoft 365 applications like Word and Outlook is another significant feature of Protégé. Wellen explains that legal professionals spend a considerable amount of their time in Microsoft tools, and the AI's ability to enhance productivity within these familiar environments is crucial. With features such as smart drafting tools, automated legal requests, and contextual awareness of user actions, Protégé aims to streamline workflows and reduce the time spent on repetitive tasks. The seamless connection between Protégé and Microsoft applications represents a shift toward more efficient legal research and document drafting processes.
Serena also addresses the pressing concerns of security, privacy, and data protection in AI applications. LexisNexis prioritizes the security of customer data by utilizing advanced encryption and private cloud infrastructures. Importantly, she clarifies that customer data is not used to train their models, maintaining confidentiality and trust. By ensuring that users have control over their data and how it is used, LexisNexis aims to alleviate fears surrounding the adoption of AI technology in the legal sector.
Finally, she shares insights on future developments for Protégé, including the incorporation of voice commands and horizon scanning features, which will further enhance legal research capabilities. As AI continues to evolve, Wellen envisions a future where legal professionals can engage with technology in more intuitive ways, allowing them to focus on the complexities of their work without being bogged down by manual processes. Overall, the conversation highlights the transformative potential of AI in the legal industry, underscoring LexisNexis’s commitment to supporting legal professionals with innovative, personalized tools.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript
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This week, we sit down with Ted Theodoropoulos, CEO of InfoDash and host of the Legal Innovation Spotlight podcast. Ted brings over 25 years of experience in legal technology and has been instrumental in developing platforms that enhance collaboration and knowledge management in law firms. During the conversation, Ted shares the origins of InfoDash, the challenges of transitioning law firms to cloud-based systems, and the role of generative AI in both legal practice and business operations. The episode offers valuable insights for those interested in how technology is reshaping the legal industry.
Ted begins by explaining the journey of InfoDash, which evolved from a consulting firm called Acrowire, focused on building bespoke intranets and extranets for law firms. Recognizing the need for more innovative, cloud-based solutions, Ted and his team relaunched as InfoDash in 2022, just as law firms were moving en masse to Microsoft 365 and grappling with the shift to hybrid and remote work. This transition, Ted explains, has been challenging for firms accustomed to on-premises servers, a concept he refers to as “server huggers.” However, he points out that the cloud offers undeniable advantages, especially for firms looking to adopt AI-driven tools in the future.
The conversation then turns to the role of generative AI in the legal industry. Ted and the hosts discuss how AI tools like ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot have generated excitement, but also disappointment, as their capabilities have yet to fully meet the specific needs of law firms. While generative AI shows promise in tasks like summarization and drafting, Ted cautions that the technology is not a "silver bullet." He emphasizes the importance of oversight, particularly given the risks associated with hallucinations in AI-generated content. However, he believes that AI's potential is vast, especially in the business side of law, where firms can automate administrative tasks without the regulatory hurdles that affect client work.
Knowledge management (KM) and innovation within law firms is another key topic of discussion. Ted notes that while KM has been a longstanding function in many firms, it often varies in scope and effectiveness. He highlights the recent rise of "innovation" roles in firms but warns that some of these are more about appearances than actual advancements—a phenomenon he dubs "innovation theater." Ted argues that for firms to truly innovate, they must be willing to take risks and accept failure as part of the process. He calls for a more standardized approach to KM and innovation roles but acknowledges that cultural differences between firms make this difficult to achieve.
The episode concludes with a look toward the future of legal technology. Ted advises firms to adopt a cautious, incremental approach when implementing new technologies, such as AI. He warns against making large, reactionary investments based on the fear of missing out and encourages firms to start with small pilot programs that can be scaled as they yield results. By focusing on business of law use cases first, firms can gain early wins and build confidence in their technology strategies, avoiding the pitfalls of overpromising and underdelivering.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript
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This week we talk with Ed Walters from VLex to explore the Autumn 2024 release of VLex’s Vincent AI platform. Ed discusses a series of transformative updates that are turning Vincent AI from a legal research tool into a comprehensive platform that integrates drafting, transactional, and research tasks. These updates include new workflow tools, redlining capabilities, and an innovative feature called Prompt Assist, which enables users to have more control over the AI’s responses by asking follow-up questions to refine their queries. This added transparency and auditability make Vincent AI more user-friendly and trustworthy, as Ed highlights throughout the discussion.
One key feature of the Autumn 2024 release is the introduction of multi-turn conversations within the AI’s responses. This enhancement allows users to continue asking follow-up questions, enabling a deeper exploration of legal issues without needing to start from scratch each time. We discuss how this mirrors tools like Perplexity, where AI can provide follow-up prompts to help users navigate complex inquiries. Vincent AI goes further by asking clarifying questions to ensure the results are tailored to the specific needs of the user, such as identifying which party is at risk in a contract.
Ed emphasizes that legal professionals are not just conducting research for academic curiosity—they need actionable tools integrated into their workflow. Vincent AI’s new capabilities, such as drafting briefs or analyzing redlines, reflect this shift by focusing on providing immediate, actionable insights. Ed explains how these workflow tools enable lawyers to dive straight into their work instead of first sifting through research results, creating a more efficient and integrated process for legal professionals.
A significant highlight of the episode is the introduction of VIDA (Vincent in Docket Alarm), a new feature that combines VLex’s Vincent AI with Docket Alarm’s vast repository of court documents. This integration allows legal professionals to conduct deeper analyses of litigation trends, law firm strategies, and individual lawyer performance, offering unprecedented insight into how cases are being handled. Ed humorously mentions a suggestion from the VLex team to call this feature “DIVA” (Dockets in Vincent AI), but for now, it remains VIDA. This new development provides law firms with enhanced analytical capabilities to explore their own practices and those of competitors.
Finally, the episode concludes with Greg and Ed discussing the broader implications of these tools for law firms, especially in managing large, multi-jurisdictional projects. Ed explains how the 50-state survey feature, a traditionally burdensome task, can now be completed in minutes, making it easier for firms to scan legal landscapes across the U.S. and globally. As Greg points out, this capability not only streamlines the process for legal teams but also creates new opportunities for firms to offer innovative services to clients. Throughout the episode, the conversation showcases how Vincent AI’s latest updates are pushing the boundaries of legal technology.
Links:
– https://www.vlex.com/vincentListen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript
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This week, we sit down with Rachael Bosch, the founder and managing director of Fringe Professional Development, to discuss the importance of communication and leadership development within the legal industry. Rachael, with her extensive background in law firm talent management and certifications from prestigious institutions like the NeuroLeadership Institute, Harvard Law School, and Cornell University, offers valuable insights into the role of brain-based coaching in fostering effective workplace environments. Her passion for helping professionals grow and succeed shines through as she discusses her journey from a decade-long career in law firm talent management to founding Fringe Professional Development.
Rachael explains her decision to leave a stable career at Paul Hastings to start her own company, citing her love for professional development and her growing interest in communication challenges within law firms. She describes how these challenges often stem from poor communication practices, such as being too direct, too passive, or using the wrong platform, which can lead to misunderstandings and inefficiencies. Rachael's background in theatrical performance also contributes to her fascination with human behavior and motivation, which she has channeled into developing innovative training programs that focus on improving workplace communication and leadership.
The conversation delves into the concept of brain-based coaching, a method that combines neuroscience and leadership development to help professionals understand and improve their communication and leadership skills. Rachael emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and emotional intelligence in effective communication, noting that many professionals struggle with these aspects. She explains how brain-based coaching helps individuals recognize cognitive distortions and other psychological barriers that can hinder their ability to communicate effectively. By grounding coaching in neuroscience, Rachael is able to offer a more fact-based approach that resonates with her often-skeptical audience of lawyers.
Rachael also shares some of the challenges she has faced in promoting coaching within law firms, particularly the resistance from attorneys who believe that only other attorneys can truly understand their issues. She argues that the "clarity of distance"—the idea that a coach who is not deeply entrenched in the legal industry can offer a more objective perspective—is actually a strength in coaching. Additionally, Rachael highlights the importance of upward feedback in professional development, describing how Fringe Professional Development's tools help law firms gather and utilize feedback to improve leadership and team dynamics.
Rachael predicts that the legal industry will face a conflict between a new generation of partners who deeply care about creating supportive work environments and a new generation of associates who maintain a more detached, boundary-driven approach to work. She emphasizes the need for bridging this gap to create cohesive, caring teams. Rachael's insights provide valuable takeaways for legal professionals looking to improve their communication and leadership skills, as well as for firms aiming to create more human-centered workplace cultures.
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Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
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In the legal profession, success is not solely about winning cases but also about building a sustainable practice that endures the test of time. Douglas J. Wood, a veteran entertainment and media lawyer, underscores this in his latest book, From Dawn to Dusk. Wood shares valuable insights on the importance of strategic planning for lawyers and offers advice on navigating the emotional and practical challenges of transitioning out of active practice. His reflections provide a roadmap for legal professionals aiming to build a thriving practice and smoothly transition into retirement.
Wood emphasizes the critical role that a well-structured business plan plays in the success of a legal practice. Drawing from his personal journey, he highlights how he adopted basic business principles early in his career, focusing on creating a detailed, written plan with specific, measurable goals. According to Wood, lawyers often overlook the necessity of such planning, choosing instead to rely on their legal expertise alone. However, by integrating business strategies into their practice, lawyers can significantly enhance their chances of long-term success. Wood's approach demonstrates that a solid business plan is not just an option but a necessity for those who wish to thrive in the competitive legal landscape.
As lawyers progress in their careers, they inevitably face the challenge of transitioning out of active practice. Wood candidly discusses the emotional strain associated with this process, particularly the sense of irrelevancy that can emerge as one nears retirement. He stresses the importance of having a transition plan in place, one that allows lawyers to gradually step back while ensuring their clients are well taken care of by other attorneys. This transition, Wood argues, should not be left to chance; instead, it should be a carefully managed process that begins years before retirement. His advice serves as a reminder that, just as in the early stages of a career, strategic planning is crucial in the later stages as well.
One of the more pressing issues in today’s legal industry, according to Wood, is the generational gap exacerbated by the shift to remote work during the COVID-19 pandemic. This gap, he believes, threatens the traditional methods of mentoring and knowledge transfer within law firms. The remote working model has disrupted the interpersonal relationships that are essential for passing down wisdom from senior lawyers to younger associates. Wood warns that law firms must find ways to bridge this divide if they are to maintain a cohesive and effective workforce. His observations highlight the need for firms to adapt to the changing work environment while preserving the core elements of mentorship and collaboration that are vital to a firm’s success.
In essence, Wood’s insights offer a comprehensive guide for lawyers at every stage of their careers. From the importance of a well-structured business plan to the challenges of transitioning out of practice, his advice is both practical and deeply reflective of his own experiences. Moreover, his concerns about the generational gap in law firms serve as a timely reminder that the legal profession must evolve with the times while maintaining its foundational practices. For any lawyer looking to build a successful career and plan for a smooth retirement, Wood’s wisdom is invaluable.
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Contact Us:
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Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog
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This week, we bring back our original TGIR podcast guest, Zena Applebaum. Zena is now the Senior Vice President of Market Development at Harbor, and we discuss the ongoing transformation driven by technological advancements and strategic shifts. Her insights provide a valuable perspective on the challenges and opportunities facing legal professionals as they navigate these changes.
Zena talks about the integration of generative AI (Gen AI) into legal research tools, particularly at Thomson Reuters, where she previously worked. She emphasizes the challenges in managing expectations around AI's capabilities while ensuring that the products deliver on their promises. The legal industry has high expectations for AI to simplify the time-consuming and complex nature of legal research. However, Applebaum highlights the need for balance, as legal research remains inherently challenging, and overpromising on AI's potential could lead to dissatisfaction among users.
Zena was one of the first in the legal market to understand the role of competitive intelligence in shaping product development and market strategies. Applebaum reflects on her experience at Thomson Reuters, where she applied competitive intelligence not just to monitor competitors but to anticipate market dynamics and plan for the future. This approach allowed Thomson Reuters to stay ahead by avoiding surprises and making informed decisions that aligned with long-term goals. Her emphasis on listening to customer needs and understanding market trends underscores the importance of strategic foresight in the legal tech industry.
We also talk about Zena's move over to Harbor, where she now focuses on market development. She explains that her move was motivated by the opportunity to impact a smaller, more agile company and leverage her legal domain expertise in a broader context. At Harbor, Applebaum aims to redefine the company's value proposition and position it as a holistic service provider for the legal industry. This shift from a product-centric role to a more strategic, client-focused position highlights the evolving nature of legal services and the increasing demand for comprehensive solutions that address various aspects of legal practice.
Furthermore, the podcast explores the potential impact of AI on the legal landscape and Harbor's role in helping law firms and legal departments adapt to these changes. Applebaum notes that while AI has not yet revolutionized the industry as quickly as some anticipated, it is gradually driving efficiency and reshaping how legal professionals approach their work. Harbor's technology-agnostic approach allows it to assist firms in optimizing their tech stacks and preparing for the future, whether through AI, cloud migration, or other technological advancements. This adaptability positions Harbor as a key player in guiding firms through the ongoing digital transformation.
Zena shares her outlook on the future of the legal industry, particularly the growing sophistication of in-house legal departments and the increasing competition for legal talent. She predicts that as AI continues to enhance efficiency and drive changes in the industry, the demand for skilled legal professionals will rise. Law firms will need to adapt to these shifts by embracing new technologies and rethinking their strategies to remain competitive in a rapidly evolving market.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript available on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog
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This week, we talk about an exciting development in the legal technology industry: the acquisition of Legal Tech Consultants by Legal Technology Hub. We bring in the key players involved in this strategic move, including Nikki Shaver, Jeroen Plink, and Cheryl Wilson Griffin. The trio share their insights into the motivations behind the acquisition and their future plans. This acquisition not only marks a significant milestone for both companies but also promises to bring innovative solutions to the legal tech market.
Nikki Shaver, co-founder and CEO of Legal Technology Hub, explained that the acquisition was driven by the natural synergy between the two companies. Legal Tech Consultants, led by Cheryl Wilson Griffin, had long been admired for its advisory work with early-stage startups, which complemented Legal Technology Hub's existing focus on more mature companies. As the conversations between the two teams deepened, it became clear that combining their efforts would create a more comprehensive offering in the market. The integration of Cheryl's expertise and client base into Legal Technology Hub aligns with the latter's long-term strategic goals of expanding its reach and influence in the legal tech industry.
Jeroen Plink, co-founder and COO of Legal Technology Hub, emphasized the practical benefits of the acquisition. By merging Cheryl’s consulting services with Legal Technology Hub’s existing offerings, they can now provide even more robust support to vendors and law firms alike. The combined experience of the team, which spans over 60 years in the legal tech space, allows them to offer unparalleled insights and guidance. This depth of knowledge is particularly valuable in helping legal tech vendors navigate the complex buying cycles of law firms and in-house legal departments, ultimately improving the overall legal tech ecosystem.
Cheryl Wilson Griffin, the founder of Legal Tech Consultants, expressed her excitement about joining forces with Legal Technology Hub. She highlighted the unique blend of expertise that each member brings to the table, creating what she described as a "super dream team." Cheryl's experience as a legal tech buyer and consultant allows her to provide invaluable insights to startups, particularly in preparing them to meet the rigorous demands of large law firms. Her focus on building out resources for mid-sized firms and startups is seen as a key area of growth, particularly in developing content that helps these companies better understand the market and improve their offerings.
The conversation also touched on the cultural fit between the teams, which both Nikki and Cheryl noted as crucial to the success of the acquisition. They had built strong relationships over time, ensuring that their visions and working styles aligned before moving forward. This careful approach has made the integration process seamless, allowing them to hit the ground running. The team is already looking ahead to new initiatives, including potentially productizing some of their consulting services and exploring the development of an accelerator or incubator for legal tech startups.
This acquisition of Legal Tech Consultants by Legal Technology Hub represents a significant step forward in the legal tech industry. The combined expertise of Nikki Shaver, Jeroen Plink, and Cheryl Wilson Griffin promises to deliver innovative solutions and strategic guidance to both vendors and law firms. As they continue to expand their offerings and build on their strengths, the legal tech community can expect to see exciting developments from this newly formed powerhouse in the industry.
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Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaContact Information:
Legal Technology Hub Website
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This week on The Geek in Review, we discuss the future of legal technology with Dr. Megan Ma, a distinguished research fellow and Associate Director of the Stanford Program in Law, Science, and Technology at the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics, also known as Codex. Dr. Ma's groundbreaking work in integrating generative AI into legal applications takes center stage as she shares her insights on translating legal knowledge into code and the implications of human-machine collaboration in the legal field.
Dr. Ma discusses her unique background in law and linguistics, emphasizing the challenges of translating legal language into deterministic computer code. Her fascination with language and its nuances has inspired her research at Codex, where she explores how legal concepts can be effectively communicated through technology. She recounts her academic journey, explaining how her multilingual skills and interest in natural language processing have shaped her approach to developing legal tech solutions.
At Codex, the mission is to empower the legal system through innovative technology. Dr. Ma describes Codex as a collaborative hub, where experts from various fields work together to address inefficiencies and pain points in the legal system. She highlights the center’s commitment to human-centered design, ensuring that their technological advancements are co-created with relevant stakeholders. This approach ensures that the tools and solutions developed at Codex are practical and beneficial for both lawyers and clients.
One of the standout initiatives at Codex is their mentorship model, designed to mirror the traditional mentorship found in law firms. Dr. Ma explains how they use AI to create legal personas based on the redline practices of experienced partners. This innovative approach allows junior associates to receive focused guidance, helping them improve their skills and knowledge in a more efficient and impactful manner. By integrating AI into the mentorship process, Codex aims to bridge the gap between theoretical legal education and practical experience.
Dr. Ma introduces the concept of agentic workflows, where AI agents make autonomous decisions based on specified goals rather than predefined tasks. This dynamic interaction is particularly useful in legal negotiations, where unforeseen circumstances often arise. The negotiation model developed by Codex includes features like client rooms, expert consultations, and various levels of difficulty to simulate real-world scenarios. This hands-on training tool is designed to help young lawyers navigate complex negotiations and improve their problem-solving skills.
In the Crystal Ball segment, Dr. Ma shares her vision for the future of legal technology. She emphasizes the importance of developing tools that tap into the legal brain, focusing on the process behind legal decisions rather than just the end product. By capturing the experiential knowledge of seasoned lawyers, Codex aims to create more effective and intuitive AI tools that can support the legal profession in new and innovative ways. Dr. Ma’s insights highlight the potential for AI to transform the legal field, making it more efficient, accessible, and responsive to the needs of both practitioners and clients.
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Contact Us:
X: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaTranscript
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This week, we sit down with Conrad Everhard, founding partner of Flatiron LLP, a pioneering law firm that has revolutionized M&A services with their innovative flat fee model. Conrad shares the fascinating origin story of Flatiron, its unique approach to legal services, and the challenges and successes they've encountered along the way.
Everhard recounts the inception of Flatiron LLP, co-founded with Mark Haddad and Lenny Nuara, former big law partners, who sought to modernize legal services post-financial crisis. Despite their elite backgrounds, reentering the private law firm space proved challenging due to their detachment from Big Law for a few years. Driven by their frustrations with Big Law's resistance to change and the convergence of factors such as acceptance of virtual models and access to senior labor, they took the bold step of founding Flatiron. This new model law firm leverages technology and client-focused solutions to disrupt traditional legal services.
When it comes to Flatiron's groundbreaking flat fee M&A services, Conrad explains that the motivation behind this disruptive approach was to bring more transparency, predictability, and cost-efficiency to the fee structure. Over several years, Flatiron has honed a model that relies on low overhead, innovative labor deployment, and technological advancements. They operate on a general contractor model, utilizing a network of expert contractors on a project basis, which allows them to offer high-quality services at a lower and more predictable cost compared to Big Law.
Conrad highlights Flatiron's development of "Deal Driver," a workstream efficiency platform that streamlines the M&A process. Initially created as an internal tool, Deal Driver organizes and manages data through each phase of a deal, incorporating AI and human intelligence to enhance efficiency. This platform has not only improved their internal processes but has also gained popularity among clients, leading to its spin-off as a proprietary platform. The success of Deal Driver underscores Flatiron's commitment to innovation and client satisfaction.
Flatiron's unique labor pool taps into senior associates and counsel with elite firm backgrounds who, for various reasons, seek alternative work environments. Flatiron offers better pay and a more flexible, engaging work culture, attracting highly skilled professionals. Conrad emphasizes the importance of their "coolness factor" in recruitment and client acquisition, noting their collaborations with Stanford Codex and the positive reception from private equity clients who appreciate their efficiency and data management capabilities.
In the crystal ball segment, Conrad speculates on the future of the legal industry. He predicts that traditional Big Law firms may eventually adopt more innovative models, possibly through spin-offs or off-brand ventures, to stay competitive. Additionally, he foresees alternative legal service providers and sandbox experiments in places like Utah and Arizona challenging the traditional legal market. Despite the potential for disruption, Conrad remains confident in Flatiron's model, emphasizing the green field of opportunities ahead and their readiness to adapt and innovate continuously.
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Contact Us:
X: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCiccaFlatiron LLP: flatiron.legal
Conrad Everhard on LinkedIn: Conrad Everhard
Email: [email protected]
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This week, we discuss the evolving landscape of professional development and training within the legal industry. With a special focus on innovative methods and technological advancements, this episode features insights from three distinguished guests: Adam Stofsky, CEO at Briefly, Ian Nelson, Co-Founder of Hotshot, and Caitlin Vaughn, Managing Director of Learning and Professional Development at Goodwin. Together, they explore how modern training programs are being reshaped to meet the demands of a rapidly changing legal environment.
Staying Relevant in Rapidly Changing Times
Adam Stofsky discusses the challenges and strategies for keeping legal training content fresh and relevant. Briefly's custom content creation, which addresses real-time issues faced by legal teams, ensures that the material is always up-to-date. Stofsky highlights the importance of integrating modern tools like AI to enhance training efficiency without losing the human touch. The conversation transitions into how technology like AI and tools such as Descript are transforming content creation, allowing for more efficient and scalable training solutions.Practical Skills and Training Innovation
Ian Nelson emphasizes the importance of practical skills over theoretical knowledge in legal training. He shares Hotshot’s approach to delivering hands-on, practical training that prepares lawyers for real-world scenarios. Feedback from users indicates a high demand for practical training that directly supports their daily tasks. Nelson also touches on the strategic importance of training programs, noting how firms are increasingly integrating such programs into their overall professional development plans.Goodwin’s Comprehensive Training Program
Caitlin Vaughn presents an in-depth look at Goodwin’s first-year associate training program, a full-time, eight-week initiative that combines technical and professional skills development. Vaughn explains how the program blends live sessions, asynchronous learning, and interactive components to create a holistic training experience. This innovative approach not only prepares new associates for their roles but also fosters a culture of continuous learning. Vaughn also discusses the integration of laterals, focusing on personalized training plans to address individual needs and ensure smooth transitions.Future Challenges and Opportunities
In the crystal ball segment, the guests share their insights on the future of legal training. They discuss the challenges of managing rapid changes in law, technology, and training methodologies. The consensus is that while there are significant challenges, there are also immense opportunities to innovate and improve the effectiveness of legal training. Customization, quality content, and effective pacing are highlighted as key factors for successful training programs in the future.The discussions underscore the importance of innovative, practical, and engaging training solutions that keep pace with the evolving demands of the legal profession. As the legal landscape continues to change, firms that embrace these advancements will be better positioned to equip their lawyers with the skills they need to succeed.
Contact Information:
Adam Stofsky: [email protected] | Briefly | LinkedIn: Adam Stofsky
Ian Nelson: [email protected] | Hotshot Legal | LinkedIn: Ian Nelson
Caitlin Vaughn: LinkedIn: Caitlin Vaughn -
This week, we are joined by Joshua Broyde, PhD and Principal Solutions Architect at AI21 Labs. Broyde discusses AI21 Labs' work in developing foundation models and AI systems for enterprise use, with a focus on their latest model, Jamba-Instruct.
Josh explains the concept of foundation models and how they differ from traditional AI models. He highlights AI21 Labs' work with financial institutions on use cases like term sheet generation and financial document Q&A. The conversation explores the challenges and benefits of training models on company-specific data versus using retrieval augmented generation (RAG) techniques.
The interview delves into the development of Jamba Instruct, a hybrid model combining Mamba and Transformer architectures to achieve both speed and accuracy. Broyde discusses the model's performance, industry reaction, and potential applications.
Safety and security considerations for AI models are addressed, with Broyde explaining AI21 Labs' approach to implementing guardrails and secure deployment options for regulated industries. The discussion also covers the balance between model quality and cost, and the trend towards matching specific models to appropriate tasks.
Josh also shares his thoughts on future developments in the field, including the potential for agent-based approaches and increased focus on cost optimization in AI workflows.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: [email protected]
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript on 3 Geeks
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