239 Stories Series: Experiencing the Supernatural with Jackie Coleman

9 Sep · The Savvy Sauce

00:50:44

239. Stories Series: Experiencing the Supernatural with Jackie Coleman

**Transcription Below**

Genesis 50:20 + 21 (NIV) "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children.” And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them."

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

Are you willing to share some of the supernatural happenings you experienced with you family and your dad near the end of his life?Will you share a few of your God stories you've experienced through your daughter, Olive's medical journey?What are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?

Jackie Coleman completed her undergraduate studies at the University of Georgia in 2005. She later earned an M.A. in Counseling from Richmont Graduate University and an M.Ed. from Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she was named an Urban Scholar. While in Boston, she worked as a bilingual Family Counselor for Youth Villages, and later launched the Transitional Living program, which is designed to assist at-risk youth aging out of state custody. While in Atlanta, she worked on marriage and family issues with Building Intimate Marriages and research and writing projects for best-selling author Shaunti Feldhahn. In 2012, as Executive Director, Jackie helped design and implement Governor Deal's REACH (Realizing Educational Achievement Can Happen) Georgia program, a mentoring and college scholarship opportunity for low-income middle school students. Eventually Jackie taught at Winters Chapel School where her children attended. Jackie is married to John and she now stays home with their four children.

Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:

23 Nurturing Friendships with Jackie Coleman

99 Sabbath Rest with Sandy Feit

Total Forgiveness Sermon by R.T. Kendall

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Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.

Jackie Coleman is my returning guest today. I could tell you about all the amazing things she's done as a marriage and family therapist and a Harvard graduate, but we're actually going to focus on something more important than accolades: Her faith in God and his faithfulness over the years.

Jackie and I began our friendship in 2007 when we were both attending Richmond Graduate University. Since that time, throughout both of our multiple moves, we've remained friends. [00:01:23] And you're going to see why. When you meet a friend like Jackie, you don't let her go.

As Jackie shares her story, be prepared to pull out the tissues and to also laugh out loud. Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jackie.

Jackie Coleman: Thank you so much, Laura. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Laura Dugger: Well, will you just start us off by sharing your testimony and your current life stage?

Jackie Coleman: Absolutely. So, basically, my testimony actually starts back with my parents, if you can believe that. I was born to two Jewish kids who were basically trying to figure out Christianity. So we went to church when I was very young. We dabbled with Christian holidays. I remember having a Christmas bush in the dining room, you know, which was kind of forbidden telling our Grandma Libby, don't go in there. [00:02:20]

Their faith was always so strong because they gave up everything to follow Jesus. So while it was hard at times, and I'm sure they had questions, they fully believed and dedicated their lives to learning and deepening their faith. So this really translated to us as kids.

So, you know, Wednesdays and Sundays at church were really big. We loved it. I became a Christian at five. I remember it being very real to me. I was baptized at seven. I truly loved Jesus. But it was very intellectual for me. I knew all the right answers, I did all the right things for the most part, but it hadn't really become my own.

And it really wasn't until a college experience when... you know, I was on my own. I really hadn't been going to church. I was doing kind of my own thing. I wasn't living a crazy lifestyle, but I just wasn't going to church. But my parents were coming to visit. Cue the dun-dun-dun. [00:03:22]

So I had to find a church to show them that I was living the lifestyle that they had brought me up in, but I had no idea where to go. So I just looked up the nearest Baptist church because that's where we went when I was growing up.

So I found Prince Avenue Baptist Church and brought my parents there. Prince Avenue Baptist Church that day was actually literally on fire. One of the buildings had caught on fire. And so everyone was actually congregated outside in the parking lot.

This was by the grace of God because I would have just slipped in the church, slipped out of the church with my parents, not met anyone because I knew no one. But it was through that experience, actually, that they met the college pastor.

I happened to be going through a really hard time at that point, and so they talked to that college pastor and they asked if maybe I could meet with him. That completely changed the trajectory for me.

I met with Sky. He said some things that really kind of shifted my perspective, how everything was very focused on me instead of on bigger things, on God. [00:04:29] He invited me on a mission trip. And it was through that that just God really shifted my heart and God became real. It was an intellectual thing and then it became a heart thing.

Now in my current stage, faith is it. It's all I can stand on now. It's all that's firm. Like that song, Christ is my firm foundation, I have that on repeat. I love that part of the song where it says, I still have joy in chaos, I have peace that makes no sense. So I won't be going under. I'm not held by my own strength.

Because in this season, Laura, it's... I don't know how to describe it. It's been really oppressive. It's been a very, very hard season for us. Not only hard but just brutal. We have a medically complicated sick child. There's been some really tough division between me and John. Kids have been acting out because of the stress. My body... if you can hear it, this is not my real voice. [00:05:30] I sound very low. My body has just really been wearing out.

But, you know, even in the midst of these unknowns and crazy waves, God has just shown up in big ways. And it's undoubtedly God. And so I just keep remembering that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy, but God. But God shows up. So that's where I'm at.

Laura Dugger: Goodness. Thank you, Jax, for sharing. Truly, you are living this out. Because anytime we have a phone conversation, there are heavy things that you're walking through. But even in our last text thread, you just said, "I cannot wait to share what God has been doing." So thank you for pointing us all back to Him.

Your testimony reminds me your mom was a guest on The Savvy Sauce. So I'll link to Sandy Feit's episode on the Sabbath. She shared a little bit of her testimony that's intertwined with yours. [00:06:31]

Then on your previous episode on The Savvy Sauce, which I'll also link to in the show notes, you shared that one of the hardest things you've ever walked through in your life at that point was losing your dad to cancer. I also remember you sharing that there were supernatural experiences with him near the end of his life that you and your family experienced together. So will you let us in on a few of those happenings?

Jackie Coleman: It would be such an honor. I feel like we were able to see things that I feel like we weren't supposed to see, almost, so I would feel so honored to get to share some of those. But that was such a devastating time in my life. Still can be hard. At times grief is really tricky. As those who have walked through, are walking through know that grief is not linear. You don't just cycle through and then you're done. It's really messy. So my heart goes out to those who are experiencing grief. It's really hard.

But I recently went to a marriage intensive with John and we had to walk through our growing up years and story. And I just didn't realize how much fear I had growing up around death. I just hadn't experienced a lot of death growing up. There was something so scary and creepy about it. And even though I believed in Jesus and eternity, but death itself is so vile and terrifying to me. So having this experience was a nightmare. It just felt unreal. Like, how could this be happening?

But I remember the day that we found out that something wasn't right, it was my son, my oldest son's 2-year-old birthday party. And I had a 2-year-old and a 6-month-old at the time. [00:08:22] And the surgeons had found something in a surgery on my dad. Not at the birthday party. Thank goodness. That would be a really demented birthday party.

He found something during a previous hernia surgery that didn't look right. We didn't know what it was, but they let my mom know that it wasn't good.

Now, my dad, he had a really strong faith, but he always had a lot of anxiety around cancer. He lost his mom to cancer. He had just gotten the courage to actually take the test to rule out the type of cancer that she had died from. And it had just come back negative. So it had taken so much bravery to take that test. But then this finding. And the road just kept getting more treacherous.

So I remember my dad asking me when he realized that this was something related to oncology, he asked me if I would join him and my mom at that first oncology appointment. And I still have that video when the doctor announced what it was and he said it was cancer. And he said, "Pancreatic cancer. Metastatic." [00:09:27] What nasty, nasty words. I remember losing my breath.

But my dad, he never lost hope. His reaction was always, "I'm going to fight this thing." He put his fist in the air and he said, "I'm going to fight this thing with determination."

Now, my dad was a pediatrician. He's medical. But I think, you know, at the time, he just wasn't ready to face the reality of what that diagnosis meant. And that was okay. He just wanted to hold on to hope.

But this whole process from diagnosis until death, it took about 3.5 months, three and a half months. It was so fast. During that time, he's in and out of the hospital. I'd spend nights with him trying to give my mom some reprieve, helping him, doing things that no daughter ever wants to do, you know, for your dad. But you do it because that's what you do.

And through it all, he never let go of his hope. He was always, "I'm going to fight this thing" with his fist in the air. And I was always so proud of him for holding on to hope. [00:10:27] You know, he did that until he just wasn't willing to fight that thing any longer. You know, just too much pain, too many hospital stays. Food had lost its appeal. And this was a guy who lived for his food. He would always call me like, "Do you want to get Chinese" or "do you want to go for Italian?" You know, food had just lost its luster, and that was so heartbreaking to watch.

He was suffering and he was ready. He was ready to stop those treatments and just to feel comfortable or try anyway. So that just meant hospice.

And for some reason, hospice feels like submitting somehow, but it really isn't. At the right time, it's really the right answer. We supported him and encouraged him, although we knew that fighting at this stage was, you know, futile, barring a miracle, which we're not denying that that's possible. It's always possible. But we just didn't want to take his hope. But he really was ready, ready to go to that next step. [00:11:27]

So I always describe that hospice step as brutal and beautiful. The brutal part was long. He was always a worker outer. So his heart was very strong. He was actually in hospice for a week, which, you know, being at the stage that he was, that was actually a very long time considering how much his body had deteriorated and how little life he had left in him.

It was hard to see him like that. Like, where was my strong and resonant voice, handsome, larger than life Dad? It's just hard to see someone suffer like that.

But the beautiful... this is where the supernatural comes in. We really saw things that most people don't get to see on this side of heaven. That's where I would love to share some of those experiences, if that's okay here.

Laura Dugger: I hope you do. Yes. I'm so grateful that you're even willing to let us in. [00:12:28]

Jackie Coleman: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So I mentioned that my parents are Jewish and they found a love for Jesus. The backstory to that, and I won't go into the details, that's part of my mom's testimony, which you can find on her episode of The Savvy Sauce. She has articles written in touch.

But it was through the loss of a baby, my brother, Jonathan, a long time ago. He was only 31 days old. It was devastating to them. You know, my dad being a pediatrician was at his hospital. It was just devastating. But this truly is a story of beauty from ashes. It's just amazing how God worked in their life from that devastation, from complete heartbreak, and used it to change generations. And now those generations love Jesus. But anyway.

So I was sitting with my dad and just talking to him a little bit as much as he could and listening to music and then all of a sudden his eyes got huge. I saw him trying to sit up and he pointed and he said, "Is Jonathan here?" [00:13:31]

And my dad was completely lucid. He had just been talking to me and I was super confused because my nephew is actually named Jonathan after my brother. But I shrugged it off and I was like, "No, dad, it's just me and mom here with you." And he firmly said, "No, not that Jonathan." And then he pointed to himself and he said, "My Jonathan."

So that little baby whose death left such a gaping hole, that little baby who helped lead my parents to Jesus, who had changed the course of generations, had been present, but not as a baby. Apparently, he looked like me, according to my dad in that room. And how full circle, how amazing an experience.

Throughout that time, my dad, you know, he saw beautiful things like that. It was such an amazing experience to get to witness and hear the things we can never obviously see them. But he would remark things like white robes. [00:14:31] We have some of this on tape. We will keep those videos and treasure them.

He would always kind of look over at the upper right-hand corner of the room. You can hear accounts of hospice nurses, there are books and books where there are similar accounts of this. But he would look up and say, "Wow, unbelievable," over and over and over again. And we would prod him and say, "What are you seeing, Dad? What are you seeing?" And he would just continually say, "Wow, unbelievable."

At one point he stated, "I'm in a marketplace, a Jewish marketplace." And we begged him for more. We're like, "Dad, what are you smelling? What colors are you seeing?" And he had no more to give. But I do believe that he was witnessing the new Jerusalem.

Later, my mom and I were actually able to take a really special trip to Israel and walk in those marketplaces in Jerusalem. [00:15:31] And it was such a special experience because maybe those were some of the images that my dad got to see.

But maybe the most incredible experience was right at the end. My dad, you know, entered hospice on a Saturday and it was almost a weekend. He was no longer really talking. He was barely moving, which is why one night I was super confused to see him sitting up on the edge of his bed.

I was sleeping, so when I looked at him, I was really confused because when I would be in the hospital room with him, he often would sit up if he needed to go to the bathroom and I would just help him.

So I thought I was in the hospital room with him but then I snapped to it and I remembered where we were and I jumped up to prevent him from trying to stand, because that would mean an inevitable fall or something worse. And I asked him, "What are you doing, Dad? What are you doing?" And forcefully, he said, "I want to take Jesus's hand. I want to go to Jesus. I want to go to Jesus. I want to take Jesus's hand." [00:16:32]

It took so much strength and so much convincing to try to get that man to stay down. He was so ready to take Jesus' hand and to go to Jesus. I needed to actually get the nurse's help because he was so adamant about taking Jesus' hand. Those were actually his last words.

After that, it was another three whole days. There was zero movement, no blinking, no sounds out of him. You know, his breathing changed, so we knew that the end was very close.

At that moment, I had a massive, massive panic attack, which was weird because I had literally been through everything with him every step of the way through horrific things. But there was a purpose in that, and I see it now.

But my brother took me out of the room to calm me down. And the purpose in it, I thought, was so beautiful. My mom was left alone with my dad and they got to be together, just the two of them. [00:17:35] I had felt guilty at first, like I had abandoned them. But after seeing it with new eyes, I see that that was really the design, that they were together and that was the way it was supposed to be.

Finally, when I had calmed down, my brother and I walked back to the room and my brother peeked in the room and he said, "Dad is raising his hands." And I was like, "What are you talking about? Dad hasn't moved. Dad... what? Dad had not moved, blinked, talked, done anything for those three days. What do you mean he's raising his hands?"

And sure enough, my mom had been holding his hand and he lifted his hand out of my mom's hand up, and then he raised his other hand up to meet that one and his fingers folded. And that is how he died. He literally, I believe, took Jesus's hand and went to be with Jesus in that moment. And what a gift that was.

Laura Dugger: I am speechless. That is holy and sacred and beautiful and hard, all the things you said to describe it. [00:18:44] Just incredible, Jackie.

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Laura Dugger: Well, Jackie, you've also had quite the medical journey with your daughter, Olive, and you alluded to it a little bit, but would you be willing to share a few of your God stories that you've experienced through her medical journey?

Jackie Coleman: I would love to. This has been a journey, a saga. And a journey, as you know, is the act of traveling. So we are actually in that act right now. We're nowhere near the final destination of this medical saga. I wish we had more conclusion to it.

But what I love about the story, as hard as it has been, and it is hard, is that God has been so faithful every step along the way. [00:20:52] He has provided just the right doctor for insight, appointment, person answering the phone. I mean, the stories of this type of thing are countless.

So this medical journey with our daughter started back on May 3rd. I will never forget that day. May 3rd, 2021. Olive had a massive grand mal seizure, one of the scariest things you will ever see. Panic, fear, ambulance, hospital, genetic testing, MRIs, EEGs. Complete paradigm shift. You go from having a healthy child to, wait, there's something deeply wrong here.

So God's provisions to equip us started well before this date, though. It reminds me of Joseph's story, how really the story started like years before where God was preparing the journey, preparing him years before so that he could save Israel. [00:21:51]

But for the longest time, you know, John had been encouraging me to get help, help with the kids. We have four. But my pride, Laura, I don't know why we let pride get in the way, but it stood in the way. Because why would I need help? I'm a stay-at-home mom for crying out loud. This is my job. I don't need to outsource. I'm capable.

But God knew better. Like, I finally accepted help. And five days, get this, five days before Olive's first seizure, we welcomed an au pair into our family. We didn't realize this would be one of the biggest godsends we ever received. It was an amazing provision, extra hands.

There were so many appointments and needs. And we couldn't have done the next couple of years without this amazing girl who now is family forever. She unknowingly joined our chaos and she stayed. I don't know why she stayed with us, but she did. And God bless her. She's amazing. [00:22:54]

But those provisions started even earlier than those five days before the seizure. God was laying the groundwork for the future needs and future support. And it backs up way further to when our baby, Paxton, was a baby in 2020. So it was November 2020. So it was half a year earlier before Olive had her seizure. I hope this timeline isn't confusing. But it was half a year before Olive had her seizure when God really did a huge work.

My son was actually having what the doctor feared were seizures and he was only three weeks old. So he was admitted to the hospital for a bunch of testing. And in walks the neurology team and we were smack dab in the middle of this pandemic. So we were all masked.

But the neurologist immediately looked at John and with stunned eyes said, "John Coleman?" And she pulls down her mask. I was so afraid it was going to be like this old girlfriend situation or something awkward. [00:23:58] But it happened to be, get this, his former babysitter from Columbus, Georgia, Laura. She was only a few years older than John. So it's not like a weird, you know... She was not much older than him. But she lived on his street and I think she would just help him not murder his brothers when his parents went out.

But because of the personal connection that she had to John, she took extra good care of us. And she even gave us her cell phone number if anything should come up. We really didn't need it because Paxton was discharged and it was just, you know, underdeveloped neurology and bad eyesight. So we didn't think we needed any help after that. But little did we know, right?

But this is where the amazing comes in. So fast forward back to the six months when Olive had her grand mal seizure and we had to go to the large children's hospital here in Atlanta, CHOA, to get an MRI. Once we finished that MRI, we were just headed down to the parking deck. And we were leaving in the elevator only to hear, "Jackie?"

And I looked in the elevator in this parking garage and who should it be? [00:25:09] It was John's former babysitter, Laura, in this huge hospital, in the same elevator, leaving at this weird time of day. I mean, how big is God? I just don't even know how to explain it. There's no way to explain it except for God.

So she caught up on why we were there, what we were going through and she quickly jumped into our story. Since then she has spent hours on the phone with us, explaining terms, scenarios I didn't understand. She's a Christian, she's prayed fervently for Olive and for answers. She's not even practicing neurology anymore and she's still... I text her on a daily basis.

Like I was just on the phone with her this morning, actually, after our neurology appointment, asking her a question. Such a big part of our story and such a big help.

After Olive has been on one medication for a number of months and her condition kept getting worse pretty severely, this Laura, who's the neurologist, was the one to think through the potential pitfalls and options, even though she wasn't actually our doctor on the case. [00:26:22] And after much prayer, she encouraged me to talk to our neurologist about a tried-and-true medication that just kept coming to her mind. It was the Holy Spirit for Olive.

So she helped me think about how to present the options to our neurologist and make the case for weaning Olive off of the current medication into a new medication. This was something that our specialists and our current neurologist were actually hesitant to do. But both Laura and I were uncomfortable with the constant subclinical seizures that were happening for Olive, especially at nighttime.

So the care team came on board with this idea, this change. And after ramping up onto this new medication that Laura had prayed about and said, "I really think you should try it," we got this ambulatory EEG, which is just a brain scan that's overnight." And when I opened the test results, I think it was by email a few days later, I knew that I got someone else's test. It was wrong because it was normal. I got a normal EEG. I kept reading it. [00:27:26]

I sent it to Laura and I was like, "This can't be our result. Is it?" She's like, "I don't know. That seems... maybe." Because we were told that that was not possible for Olive. There's too much technical terms, but Olive's brain was spiking at nighttime 95% of the time. It's like if a seizure is a fire in your brain, she was having sparks of a fire every second of the night. And it destroys your brain. You don't have restorative sleep. And she's having that now too, which is just devastating. But how big is God?

She had a second EEG months later with the same result: normal. It was like we got our girl back after months of hard, months of hard.

So Olive's condition is super rare. There are only 1,600 diagnosed in the entire world. It's a very small network. I know all the researchers, I feel like, all the doctors, I read all the papers. [00:28:27]

But one other amazing God story in this is that there are only two people identified with her particular mutation. She has an [excondylation?]. Again, this sounds very technical. And believe me, I know more brain science than I ever wanted to know.

But the two people are Olive and this one other person. And we happened somehow, again, through... it's God. We happened to connect with this family. And this person is a little girl. She lives in Florida. She's only one month younger than Olive. They are so similar. We were able to meet up with them when their family happened to be vacationing in Georgia.

Our families are so similar. They're strong Christians. Our families are now so connected and it's been so rich. We've spent time together. We share lots of tears. I call the mom up often with just sometimes just to vent, sometimes to ask a question. We've shared laughs. We've visited genetics labs together. [00:29:29] We share tips and ideas. It's just such a blessing. And so how gracious is God to put people in our lives and people in our paths just when we need it?

So this story is far from over. Like far. We had a really good run with that medication, but at the end of July, this past July, we noticed a huge change in Olive's demeanor and I could tell something was super off with her. So we got an EEG and it was confirmed that the activity was back, unfortunately. This is just something that can happen.

The medicine is no longer doing what it was supposed to be doing. So many tears, lots of appointments, some hospital stays, sickness, as you can hear in my voice, many difficulties. We just haven't found a good solution yet. And it's just really hard on her. It's hard on our family right now.

But God is faithful. I fully stand on that, even with these big question marks and the abnormal EEGs. [00:30:28] It's like when we had to have a person actually sitting in our room in the hospital, when we were just in the hospital a week and a half ago, keeping eyes on her to make sure that she was okay, because things were pretty dire.

And we didn't realize it at the time, but that person sitting in our room who was assigned to us, she must've heard us reading our Bible stories together or seeing our books on our bedside table. And at the end of her shift, she came over to me and said, "I just want to let you know that I'm a pastor and I've been spending my 12-hour shift in your room praying over your girl, your family, her health."

I couldn't stop the tears. I think I hugged her so hard. Maybe I hurt her. I'm not sure. But she still checks in with us. She got my number, I have hers. She checks in with us and she still prays with me. Laura, how big is God?

There are constant reminders of things that to the naked eye might feel like coincidence, but I know that there's no such thing as coincidence. [00:31:31] There are many more. There are just too many to recount. And while I wish I had a neatly tied conclusion to share right now in the story, we don't. We're just in the messy, uncomfortable middle of the story.

The past few weeks have been some of the hardest weeks I've ever experienced, but we know that God is faithful. And because of that, like, I really do have a genuine peace despite the hard.

Laura Dugger: Well, and each of us can be praying right now, Jackie. This is a reminder to pray for Olive. So what are those specific things you're praying right now for her?

Jackie Coleman: The biggest prayer is that the medication will do what it needs to do to calm her brain so that she can get restorative sleep again in those areas, because it's impacting so much for her. So really that we get her on the right track in terms of treatment. [00:32:32] That's the biggest thing right now. I feel like we have all the right people, it's just what's the right course. So I would covet prayers.

Laura Dugger: Yes. Lord Jesus, we pray for Olive and lift her up and her entire family board, and just that you would determine their steps, you would clearly lay out the course of action and the medical treatment and the exact right and best medication and your solution. We ask for a miracle. We believe in miracles. We ask for full healing and restoration. And we all pray this together, Lord lifting up this prayer to you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Jackie Coleman: Amen. That actually reminds me, Laura, with my dad, he had four principles by which he would live. And one of them was expect a miracle. And so I'm going to hold on to that because I really... you do need to keep your eyes open. They're all around us, and God is faithful. So thank you. [00:33:32]

Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, I remember that from your dad and he had that posted written down. I'm assuming you're a documenter. So have you been documenting these stories as well to be able to look back and see God's faithfulness?

Jackie Coleman: Oh yes. Yes. I don't want to forget even one detail because the details it's amazing.

Laura Dugger: How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully you've been blessed through the content. Now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.

Well, Jackie, I just learned so much from you during every conversation. So I want to follow up with you in three areas where I especially respect you. [00:34:32] So some more questions about your faith, parenting, and intellectual stimulation. So first, what are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?

Jackie Coleman: The biggest thing, and this hit my heart so much, is total forgiveness. This was an R. T. Kendall sermon back from 2016 that was literally just shared with me this weekend, actually by Laura, the neurologist angel friend who loves Jesus and listened to the Holy Spirit's promptings.

She sent this to me at a moment that she had no idea I needed it, no idea, but it actually was revolutionary, changed the course of something that... I needed it.

So I understand the basic concept of forgiveness and this is something, you know, we all need to do not for others. It's really for ourselves. It's to release us from chains, right? But do I practice total forgiveness? Absolutely not. I harbor anger, bitterness, resentments. [00:35:41] So this message pierced my heart, Laura.

He challenges you. It's like total forgiveness is a willingness to let someone off the hook. We have this desire, it's like a natural desire to expose people that hurt us. It's like vindication. I really struggle with justice versus mercy. I'm a justice person.

You know, in Les Mis, everyone loves Jean Valjean and I do too, but I also commiserate with Javert. I'm like, he's just trying to do his job. You know, come on people. But the challenge is that the degree to which we can let them off the hook is the degree to which God will step in. This is what R. T. Kendall says. This is not Jackie, right? These are R. T. Kendall's ideas, not mine, please. I don't want to plagiarize because this is the hardest thing for me.

And he says, it's like the hardest thing we'll ever have to do. It goes against all that's natural. We want these people to be exposed, but what are we to do? [00:36:41] We're to pray for them, not just for them to get God's wrath, right? We want, man, God, take care of them. Maybe they'll die. Right? But we want God to bless them. And how hard is that?

But when we do this, Satan can't get that foothold. He doesn't get an entry point into our lives. Right. In this sermon, which I hope maybe there's a way to link it in the show notes because this sermon was so eye-opening to me. I really struggle with forgiveness.

He touches on my absolute favorite story in the Old Testament, which is Joseph in Genesis 45. Joseph had every opportunity to get vengeance on his brothers. But like, what did he do when his brother showed up in that room? He sent everyone out, everyone other than his brothers. Right?

And why did he do that? He did that to shield them from the wrath of other people, from the shame that... for what they had done to Egypt's hero, to Joseph, because they would have been in big trouble. Those brothers would have been in big trouble if anyone had found out what they had done to Joseph, the hero. [00:37:44]

And instead of instilling fear, Joseph loved them. I encourage you to listen to this sermon if you do have a moment and maybe it won't pierce your heart, like it pierced mine. I really struggle with forgiveness. So this is such a big thing in my faith journey right now. I feel so challenged by this. And it was at such a pivotal moment in my walk-in certain relationships.

Laura Dugger: That is so helpful because I have never met anyone who says I am awesome at forgiveness. That's so easy for me to do. You are also such an incredible mom, Jackie. I admire the way that you fiercely love those four children. It's clear that you desire what's best for them. So what are some of your best practices or favorite ideas surrounding parenting right now? [00:38:44]

Jackie Coleman: Yes, I love those children fiercely. They're wearing me out right now, but yes, I love them so much.

My biggest thing that I really am trying to focus on that I think I have on repeat with them... you know, school can be hard and the pressures of peers can be hard and the world is tough. This is something I'm trying to instill in them. And also me. This was actually from a Tim Keller book, Freedom of Self Forgetfulness. I don't have any original material if you can't tell. No original material. But this is our goal. And I say this to them over and over and over, and this is really impossible to do.

Okay. Here's the punchline. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. So hard to do right. I only care what God thinks of me. I say this to them all the time. I'm like, this is impossible to actually do, but this is something we're going to strive for. [00:39:46] I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. I really only care what God thinks of me. And that's the bar by which we're going to live.

Because I just genuinely want their whole orientation to be around what God wants for them. What do they know to be true? It's not this world. That stuff always disappoints. But there is one thing that won't disappoint them. So that is something that I feel like we do say on repeat.

The other thing that we drill down on in this house is kindness. Oh, kindness. It's really all the fruits of the spirit, but really kindness is kind of like... if we have to boil it down, we really want kindness to be the thing. A big part of that is what I model as a parent.

And believe me, I have to say a lot of apologies each day for missing the mark. But kindness is really... Trying to get them to see, Like how does that impact the other person and empathy and... you know? But kindness is really something that we were trying to live by in this house. [00:40:51]

So those two things I think. We're trying to keep it simple because things are so complicated right now. But those are two things that we really try to drill down on with the kids.

Laura Dugger: That's so good. Because kindness really is a driver of so many of those fruits of the spirit. And just in case other parents are listening, can you catch us up? What are the ages from John Wyatt to Paxton right now?

Jackie Coleman: Yes. I'll be so impressed if I can get this right. They keep changing. How rude. They keep growing up. John Wyatt is 10, Olive is 8, but about to be nine in just a few days, Josie is 5, and then Pax is 2. It's fun and chaotic and a party everywhere we go. Not always a happy party but-

Laura Dugger: But a party nonetheless.

Jackie Coleman: But a party nonetheless.

Laura Dugger: Well, Jax, I'm sincere, you are one of the smartest humans I know, and I'd love to learn, how do you continue to sharpen yourself intellectually? [00:41:52]

Jackie Coleman: I don't think you're going to like my answer right now, but this is the honest answer. This honestly used to give me a lot of angst and still sometimes does, but my whole life was oriented around achievement, like intellect, grades, proving myself. But you know what? I'm in a season right now where I can barely squeak out a shower.

So while I love listening to podcasts, yours included, I do have time for that, I love your podcast, I do dive into the word daily. That is a must. And I blast worship music in the car with the kids. You should see a little Paxton who's legally blind, but musically inclined. Like he loves to sing. He belts out praise music. I love going to church Bible studies on Sunday and Wednesdays.

But honestly, I don't have a ton of margin to be super intellectual these days. I know that this is a season and you know what? That's okay. Whereas in the past, I think I would beat myself up for that and feel like I'm slacking and I'm getting dumb or, you know, I'm not, you know... [00:42:59]

God has been teaching me so much. Believe me, so much. And it hasn't been through the books or the classroom, the podcast that originally, you know, I think it comes from. But these life experiences that have just about killed me have taught me so much about faith and resilience and trust and God's faithfulness. So I'll take that in the season.

I think probably in the future there will be more margin for the things that I love. And I do love to read and I do love taking classes and I love to go to events and have adult conversations, but this just isn't my season for that. I really am okay with that.

Laura Dugger: That's so real. And yet I would even like to add a few that I'm hearing even through this conversation, your conversations where you're sharpening one another with these friends and doctors that you're in communication with. And then also you're talking about reading these medical journals. I think that is sharpening. And the sermons that you're metabolizing and the documentation. [00:44:02] I think it's such a part of you, Jax, that you may not even recognize that you're doing this every day.

Jackie Coleman: Yes, true.

Laura Dugger: Well, you know, we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Jax, what is your savvy sauce?

Jackie Coleman: I love that question. I love that it comes at the end of all your podcasts. My savvy sauce in this season is to remember what the enemy meant for evil, He turns it for good. And you know what? I knew that was the song. I didn't actually remember where it came from. So I looked it up and you know where it's from. It's from Joseph. Genesis 50:20. "You intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good."

And that's such a good reminder we battle not against flesh and blood, and we need to remember that there's a much bigger battle taking place. And so it can be easy to see people or situations as our enemy, but I think we need to just keep our focus on what we truly are fighting for. And that's God's glory. Full stop. [00:45:14]

Laura Dugger: Yes and amen. But I'm going to actually read the verse following, Genesis 50:21, for you Jax. "So now do not be afraid. I will provide for you and support you and your little ones." So he comforted them, giving them encouragement and hope, and spoke with kindness to their hearts.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, that's just the best. I'm writing that one down. I'm going to put that in my car. I'm going to put that on my mirror. That's beautiful. Why did I full stop at Genesis 50:20?

Laura Dugger: Well, I had no idea what you would be sharing. And when you said that, I remember that's a full stop always. I've enjoyed that verse so much. And yet when I came across the one after it, it just pierces to you for your little ones. So I read to you through the amplified version.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, that makes me... I love that so much.[00:46:16]

Laura Dugger: This is what you have been saying the whole time: God is so good.

Jackie Coleman: God is so good, Laura.

Laura Dugger: Amen. Jackie, I've told you before, I remember the very first moment that we were introduced and I cannot express enough. I'm so grateful that we became instant friends and God has richly, richly, richly blessed me with your friendship. You are humble and hilarious and an absolute joy to spend time with and learn from. So thank you so much for being willing to be my returning guest today. I just love you so much, friend.

Jackie Coleman: Oh, I love you so much. And it's such an honor.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. [00:47:21]

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:48:26]

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:49:32] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

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Dela

Episoder

245 Stories Series: Miracles Big and Small with Dr. Rob Rienow
4 Nov· The Savvy Sauce
245. Stories Series: Miracles Big and Small with Dr. Rob Rienow
Matthew 18:3 (NIV) "And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
You have experienced some special miracle stories of God's provision in your life. Will you take us back to your childhood and share some of your early experiences with God?
What were significant ways God showed up in your teenage and young adult years?
How have you preserved these stories and passed them along to the next generation?
Dr. Rob Rienow married Amy in 1994 and they have been blessed with 7 children. His most important ministry is loving his wife and leading his children to know God and love Him. Rob’s mom came to Christ shortly after he was born so he was blessed to be introduced to Jesus at an early age. His parents divorced when he was in high school and God used that painful time in his life to give him a heart for young people and families going through dark times. He attended Wheaton College, then completed an MA in theology at Wheaton College Graduate School, an MDiv from Trinity International Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry in Christian Leadership from Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary.
Rob’s life dramatically changed in 2004. God brought him to a place of deep repentance over the fact that he was disciplining other people’s children, but not his own. He was a spiritual leader at church, but passive with his family. Through that time of repentance, God turned his heart to the ministry of his children and his wife. God then led He and Amy to launch Visionary Family Ministries, a ministry designed to inspire parents and grandparents to disciple their children, to help couples create mission driven-marriages, and equip churches to build Bible-driven ministries. Their mission is to build the church through a global reformation of family discipleship.
He shares the biblical message of family discipleship at national and international conferences for parents, couples, and church leaders. He partners and consults with numerous churches, encouraging them to accelerate evangelism and discipleship through families.
Continue Learning from Dr. Rob Rienow:
Visionary Family Website
Family Vision Podcast
Books and Resources by Dr. Rob Rienow
Other Episodes on The Savvy Sauce with Dr. Rob Rienow:
87 Visionary Parenting and Grand-Parenting with Dr. Rob Rienow
Special Patreon Release: Discipline that Disciples with Dr. Rob Rienow
230 Intentional Parenting in All Stages with Dr. Rob Rienow
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
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244 Stories Series: Medical Marvels with Carolyn Henricks
28 Oct· The Savvy Sauce
244. Stories Series: Medical Marvels with Carolyn Henricks
2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (NIV) "For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."
Carolyn Henricks is married to Gary, mother to four married adult children, and grandmother to ten. She retired from her career as Pediatric Quality Coordinator at OSF St. Francis and now spends time volunteering in various capacities.
Questions We Discuss:
What was it that drew you to a saving faith in Jesus Christ?
What medical complications did your third son walk through?
Do you have any wisdom to share first about parenting adult children?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
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Special Patreon Release: Remaining Sexually Engaged Through The Years with Dr. Michael Sytsma
21 Oct· The Savvy Sauce
*DISCLAIMER* This message contains adult themes and is not intended for little ears.
Special Patreon Release: Remaining Sexually Engaged Through the Years with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Colossians 3:14 (NIV) “And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.”
Dr. Michael Sytsma is a certified sex therapist, ordained minister, and co-founder of sexual wholeness. Dr. Mike has been working with couples in a variety of capacities since 1987. He currently works with Building Intimate Marriages in Atlanta, GA as he meets with clients, teaches, and speaks at various conferences. He and Karen have been married since 1985 and have two sons, Josiah and Caleb.
Building Intimate Marriages Website
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Chasing Sacred (Use code SAVVY for 20 percent off their Bible studies)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
243 Stories Series: Angel Encounter and Hearing from God with Mary Beth Zimmerman
14 Oct· The Savvy Sauce
243: Stories Series: Angel Encounter and Hearing from God with Mary Beth Zimmerman
**Transcription Below**
Hebrews 1:14 (NIV) "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Other episode Mentioned:
27 Life Lessons with My Dad
Topics we cover:
Unique UpbringingAngel EncounterGod reveals Himself in a Personal Way
Mary Beth Zimmerman has been married to her high school sweetheart, Dennis, for 42 years. In all the excitement of establishing their home and later, their business, they were privileged to raise three fun and energetic boys. Mary Beth is blessed to have a warm, kind daughter in-law and two precious grandchildren. She is now back to keeping their home and office in check with just she and Dennis at home. Mary Beth loves to travel with her husband and two of her favorite trips (besides their ongoing trips to Table Rock Lake with family) have been a motorcycle trip to Canada and a 12-day stay in Israel, walking and seeing where Jesus lived and died and rose again. She loves Jesus and encourages others in their walk with Him!
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:01] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciate the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at LemanGM.com.
Mary Beth Zimmerman is my guest today, and she happens to also be my aunt, who we lovingly call MB. Her husband is Dennis, so I'm used to calling them DZ and MB, which may happen during our time together.
But Mary Beth is a faithful woman, a prayer warrior, and she has a spiritual gift of encouraging others. So you can expect to feel uplifted and have your faith expanded, as she shares a few meaningful life stories with us now. [00:01:21]
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Mary Beth.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Thank you, Laura. It is a joy to be here. I love spending time with you, no matter what we do or talk about.
Laura Dugger: Likewise. Will you just begin our time by sharing a bit of your upbringing, and give us some context for your life?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Okay, well, the older I get, the more I appreciate my upbringing. It was unique. I'm the eighth child of 10 children, and both of my mom and dad were believer. They made it a top priority to tell us about Jesus and to teach us his word and to memorize scripture and live godly lives and attend church regularly.
So my dad was a businessman, and mom was at home with us kids. Our neighborhood was unique because we had families that were related to each other. My grandpa had bought a piece of ground, and his daughter lived next door, which was my mom, and all 10 of us kids lived there. [00:02:29]
Then on the other side of my grandpa was his son and his wife and their five children. And then on the other side of our home was my mom's sister and her husband and their seven children.
So if you walked across the street and went through the backyards, you'd be on another street where another family of siblings and their family lived. And it was two brothers and then their sister and their spouses and children. So there were quite a few children in the neighborhood.
And then on the end of our street and up a block was the family of our pastor and his wife and their six children. I think I'm getting the numbers right here. But in the whole neighborhood, there were 43 kids. So you can imagine, there was a little rivalry. There was a little chaos in the summertime when we were all home. And there was some family rivalry, but there were a lot of good, fun times had. [00:03:40]
Since we all attended the same church and we were all cousins and we all attended the same school, we knew each other very well. That was a blessing.
Also, the parents would go to church on Wednesday nights. And a lot of times they had choir practice even after church. So we knew that we had a few hours to just do whatever we wanted. Those were unsupervised hours. And we just played kick the can, we played baseball, and sometimes we did things that were a little bit ornery and we got in trouble for it. But those are what memories are made of, right?
So that was my growing up. Then in my high school years, I worked for my dad as a secretary for his real estate business and got married when I was 19. I had dated Dennis all through high school and got married when we were 19 and almost 20 he was. [00:04:46]
So that's the context of my growing up.
Laura Dugger: Well, and I love that I've gotten to hear some of these stories over the years that Dennis has shared that he still remembers your outfit and your halter top when he first met you. Because he was from the town over and you met at the pool. Is that right?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Yes. That also comes under unsupervised because I'd sneak out of the house sometimes with Daisy Duke shorts and a tube top on and go to the pool and meet him while my mom was at work.
Laura Dugger: It really was a different time. Very different supervision compared to today.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Definitely.
Laura Dugger: Well then, catch us up, how did your life change when you came to a saving faith in Jesus Christ?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Well, as I said, my mom and dad were godly parents and I lived all of my life believing in Jesus, praying to Jesus. My prayer would always be, "Save me from going to hell. Keep me safe. [00:05:50] Keep my family safe."
As I grew older into high school years, I kept him at a healthy distance because I knew my life wasn't honoring Him. I always knew that Jesus was the Savior and I prayed every night that he would save me and forgive my sins. I believe that he was the Savior, even my Savior, but He had not become the Lord of my life.
For me, becoming a Christian meant surrendering my life to Christ and the best way I knew how to do that was to become a member of our church. Those were two separate things, but they were combined in my life. So when I knew that I needed to surrender my life, that was a non-negotiable. I knew that I had to make Jesus Lord of my life. I knew there was going to be a huge lifestyle change. I knew that I needed to make Him my Lord. [00:06:51]
So becoming a member of the church would require a little more. That would require me dressing differently. My activities would be different. Who I hung out with would be different. That probably kept me from becoming a child of God for a couple of years because there was a big emphasis on when you become a child of God, you live a separate life from the world.
I had been dating Dennis all through high school, and we were planning to get married after we graduated. I wanted my dad to walk me down the aisle on my wedding day. I wanted a long white dress, and those were things at that time that the church considered worldly. So I always knew I was going to get married before I surrendered my life.
About six months after we were married, we both had felt the call on our lives, and we had discussed it prior to marriage that the road that we would take would be to become members of the Apostolic Christian Church and be a part of that church family. [00:08:04] So on November 23, 1981, we surrendered our lives to the one who calls Himself the Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion, and sin, which we definitely had in our lives at that time.
We were baptized in March of 1982, and then the next big event in our lives would be to welcome our three beautiful boys into our family. Our son, Jake, was born in November of '83, followed by Caleb, joining us in July of '85. And then we welcomed David in the month of December of 1988.
I had the privilege of raising the three beautiful, rambunctious kids with my husband while at the same time starting a business of our own. And then for the next 42 years, we'd be freeing ourselves into both of those endeavors. [00:09:04]
Laura Dugger: It's so fun as an adult to hear all of that laid out because I grew up with your boys, but now as a parent, I'm realizing they really did come close together.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Yes.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka has been owned and operated by the Bertschi Family for over 25 years. A lot has changed in the car business since Sam and Stephen's grandfather, Sam Leman, opened his first Chevrolet dealership over 55 years ago. If you visit their dealership today, though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did, with honesty and integrity.
Sam and Stephen understand that you have many different choices in where you buy or service your vehicle. This is why they do everything they can to make the car-buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible. They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple "Welcome to Sam Leman's".
Their customers keep coming back because they experience something different. [00:10:03] I've known Sam and Stephen and their wives my entire life, and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you check them out today.
Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread, so come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka. Sam and Stephen would love to see you, and they appreciate your business. Learn more at their website, LemanEureka.com, or visit them on Facebook by searching for "Sam Leman Eureka". You can also call them at (309) 467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Laura Dugger: But there's a certain story that I remember hearing when I was really young, and it actually still comes to my mind often. So I'd love for you to take us back to that time when your boys were really young. Can you tell us more about a certain experience you had in Chicago?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Yes. That is a story that has been told over and over. You never get tired of telling it. [00:11:04] We had Jake and Caleb. They were about 21 months apart, and then David was about three years later. At the time that our beautiful story took place, Dave and Dan, my brothers, lived in an apartment up in Chicago, and we would love to go downtown and spend time with them for a weekend.
We had been invited to a wedding, and it was March of 1990. So Jake was about six and Caleb was four, and David was 14 months. So we left David with Mom and Dad, my parents, and went up to the wedding of our friend in Barrington, Illinois.
We were planning on leaving the children with Dave and Dan to babysit. So we knew it would be a late night after the reception, so we packed their pajamas and figured that they would go to sleep before we got home, and we'd just go to Dave and Dan's downtown, pick them up, and drive home that night. [00:12:13]
It was a chilly March night around midnight when we got to Dave and Dan's apartment, and there was no place to park close to the entrance. Dennis told me just to go on up, and he'd find a place to park and be there shortly.
Dave and Dan lived on the second floor, and in order to enter the building, you had to push the correct button on a door pad, and it would alert them, and they'd ask who was there, and unlock the door from their place, and the door would open.
So I did that. I got out of the car, walked up the sidewalk and the stairs, took my coat off, kicked off my shoes, told them that Dennis was parking the car and that he'd be in shortly. Dennis did the same thing. As I was talking, the doorbell rang again, they let Dennis in, and he started asking how the boys were doing. [00:13:14] All of a sudden, the doorbell rang again, and we all four looked at each other thinking, "What in the world? Who would be ringing your doorbell at this time of night?"
Dave pressed the intercom and said, "Yes," and a kind lady's voice came across the intercom saying, "There's a little boy down here wanting to get in." All of us just looked at each other, and Dennis, being the guarding, protective dad that he was, took those steps two at a time. It couldn't have been more than five to ten seconds at the max that he was at that door and opened it up, and sure enough, he looked down, and there was Caleb in his bare feet and his little teddy bear pajamas looking up at Dennis.
Dennis looked at him and lifted him up, and he said, "How did you get out here? Where's the lady that helped you?" There was no one in sight. [00:14:24] No one all the way down both sides of the sidewalk. And it was a flat building like a brownstone, you know, so there was nowhere for anybody to go.
So he and Caleb came upstairs looking bewildered, and we just started firing the questions to little Caleb. We were like, "How long were you out there? How did you get out of the apartment without us seeing you? Who was that lady? What did she look like? What did you say to her?" And he had zero answers.
He knew he was in trouble. He knew how frightened we were. So we just kind of took a minute and chilled. By the time we were all settled, you know, we finally just said, "Caleb, you know, what did she look like? Who was that lady?" [00:15:26] And he said, "She had long hair and she had a long coat." And so we were like, okay. I think he felt, at that little age, felt pressed to give us answers. But, you know, we said, "Well, what color was her hair?" And he said red. And we said, "What color was her coat?" And he said white. That is truly the only... he never could remember anything. He was just oblivious to anything bad, and we were just overwhelmingly thankful for whoever that was that she helped him.
The only thing that made sense was that God had sent an angel to protect him, to protect our little boy that night. It was an event that we would share with many friends and acquaintances, always with a thankful heart and giving all glory to God.
You know, there's a verse in the Bible, Matthew 18:5, that says, "Whoever welcomes a child in my name welcomes me, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven." [00:16:49]
So that was our story for Caleb at that age, Laura. But there's more to that story. Caleb's profession of choice later in life would be to be a law enforcement agent and that was very hard for his mama to accept. Fast forward 32 years, the protests were going on, he was a police officer in one of the largest cities in the United States. He wouldn't call home very often unless something really tragic had happened in his line of work or if he felt like he was in danger and needed prayer.
When the riots or the protests were going on a year or two ago, he called home and said, "Hey, please have everybody pray for me because we're going to be downtown tonight and there are going to be protests and it could get ugly and I'm not sure where I'm going to be stationed." [00:18:02]
Obviously, I called my dear friends and family and knew that they would be praying for him. It was just a really dark day one day and it was when things were at their heaviest. I was walking on my treadmill praying for my boy and I just heard the Lord say, "Remember when I protected him with angels when he was four? I can still protect him when he's 36."
And I fell apart all over again knowing that God had Him in His hand and that I did not need to fear. So the mercies of the Lord never fail. They are new every morning and He is great in his faithfulness.
Laura Dugger: Wow, I had not heard that story come full circle. [00:19:04] Makes me emotional, but it also brings to life two scriptures that describe angels in both seasons. First, back to that story, when Caleb was four, that button was too high for him to reach. There was no way he could get in by himself. And it makes me think of Hebrews 1:14. And it says, "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?"
And I remember one time looking up maybe Blue Letter Bible, looking at each of those words, but ministering means to meet the needs of. So she came and she met that specific need that nobody else could meet at that time.
Then fast forward to Caleb in his thirties and having another encounter with angels as God shared with you. And it makes me think of a prayer that we pray for our daughters, Psalm 34:7, that says, "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him and he delivers them." [00:20:14]
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Amen. Yes. When Caleb decided to move to a larger city and become a police officer there, it was again, heart-wrenching for me. I prayed and God just gave me no weapon formed against my child will prevail. God has just reassured me through songs, the God of angel armies is always by your side.
The Lord just is so gracious, Laura, to His followers when we trust in Him. He comes through every time. That's why I love Jesus so very much because he's so very real in my life and He has been so faithful.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. I love how you give glory where glory is due. You've already mentioned a few, but I just know His scripture is so meaningful to you. Are there any other certain passages that were impactful throughout your life? [00:21:22]
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Well, for Caleb, there are several. I have a letter that I wrote to him. It's in my Bible. Also, Dennis and I made a plaque for him when he graduated the academy with a verse of Psalm 141. And one of the verses are, "But my eyes are fixed on you, sovereign Lord. In you I take refuge. Do not give me over to death. Keep me safe from the traps set by evildoers, from the snares they have laid for me. Let the wicked fall into their own nets while I pass by in safety."
Laura Dugger: I love that. Thank you for sharing all of that scripture. It's always encouraging. You just clearly have a gift for encouraging people. There's just one creative example that happened recently in our lives. When one of our daughters broke her back, you delivered a huge goody bag full of gifts, which providentially arrived on this really difficult day where multiple of our family members were sick and we were feeling a bit discouraged. [00:22:32] Actually, a lot discouraged. Very discouraged.
But my favorite part was the note you wrote. I'm actually going to read it because it was so powerful and continues to be powerful in our lives. So you wrote, "Hi, [Sayloh?]. We are so sorry you are dealing with a broken back. We pray for you, asking God to help you be patient and pleasant while He is healing you. No doubt, you've got lots of people who love you praying and helping make this time go by a little faster. We know it's hard to be inconvenienced and patient at the same time. And God says in His word that when one part suffers, the whole body suffers. Sometimes this means our physical body and sometimes it can mean our body or community of the people we love. I thought maybe you'd like to be able to share some of these things in this bag with your family since they're all suffering with you. I bet they'd love to be included in receiving something for their part in helping you deal with your back. So take a look at what's in the bag and pick out your favorite thing or things and then share the rest with your sisters and mom and dad. I'll bet it will make all the hearts in your home happy. We love you and thank God for the way He's healing you and hope you're back to normal soon. Lots of love, DZ and MB." [00:24:00]
That ministered to us so much, especially to my mama heart, just thinking of Shiloh and Isla and Kessler who had also really suffered and gone overlooked when Sayloh was getting a lot of the attention at that time. But you recognized them, you honored each of us, and honored them for being such supportive sisters. So it was an incredibly touching gift.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Oh, thank you.
Laura Dugger: All of that to say, you have a spiritual gift for encouraging others. And even in that note, you continue to teach us.
How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully, you've been blessed through the content. And now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out. [00:25:00]
Well, Mary Beth, a few years later, God was about to take you on a journey of spiritual growth. So will you set the stage and share that story with us now?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Sure. After I had had our three children, we lived like seven blocks from my parents and my mom would work second shift. So we spent, the kids and I... Well, Dennis was working also late hours at the car dealership at that time. So we had a lot of evening hours to spend together with my dad.
We would go for walks with Grandpa or we'd go get ice cream with him or we'd just hang out at his house. My mom and I got along great, but my dad, I adored. I just loved my dad. He loved me unconditionally. He taught by example. He was transparent. He wasn't afraid to tell me the mistakes that he'd made in life so that I wouldn't make the same ones. [00:26:06] He was a man of honor and of prayer. I love the memory of going to bed at night when I still lived at home with them and I would look in their room and they would be on their knees praying by their bedside.
He faithfully drove us to church every Sunday when I was a kid. He was a Sunday school teacher. He was esteemed in our community as a businessman and just loved by everybody. I was very proud to be called Bill Leman's daughter. I gained a lot of my identity from him being my dad.
Fast forward to 1992 on a beautiful day in May I was 30 years old and our boys were outside in our yard. I was with them playing baseball and we heard a siren coming and watched the police car fly by our house going towards the east. Then 20 minutes later the ambulance from Benson flew by our house going west. [00:27:12]
Little did we know that it was Grandpa and my dad being transported to the hospital until I got a call about an hour later. He had been involved in a car accident and he was not going to live to hear us tell him goodbye.
Needless to say, I knew I would be forever changed. My dad was the only one who understood all my highs and lows in life. He celebrated my highs and he helped me heal on the lows. So even as a little girl I still remember getting dressed up for church or somewhere special and mom would say, "Now go ask daddy how you look?" And I'd go twirl in front of him. He was just always there and he was always engaged in what I was doing. [00:28:12] We just had a really special relationship.
After the shock wore off that he was gone, I found much comfort in my siblings because he loved us all unconditionally and we had a very special bond in our family. We still do. We still get together regularly and there's nothing we wouldn't do for each other. I love my siblings so very much.
Our church family was wonderful and we had a very supportive small-town community in which we lived that came through in a big way also. But month after month I waited for the ache to go away of losing him. I never knew that grief could actually cause physical pain. But I had my heart truly hurt physically and I would find myself sighing through the day and truly like six or eight months I was still grieving for him pretty heavily. [00:29:24]
I was just thinking of all the things he was. He was my cheerleader. He was the one I could go get a bear hug from if I needed one. He was a sounding board and a confidant and he was my number one fan. You know, your husband is an awesome supportive companion like no other but your dad has a special place in your heart. Or he did in mine. I know yours does too.
Laura Dugger: He definitely does.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: So the emptiness that I felt continued for well over a year and I read books on grieving. I found tremendous comfort in music. I shared my thoughts with anyone who'd listen. I always prayed to God and I knew that my dad was with God and I knew that God was sovereign over His accident and I was never mad at God but I was just... I don't know. [00:30:26] I don't know why it took me so long to finally get one-on-one with God about my dad.
But there were just a lot of other things. My mom was hurting at the time. Here she was a widow and DZ was grieving alongside of me. He loved my dad about as much as I did and I was just... I don't know. I was just at a loss for what to do.
One morning while I was doing my devotions, I just started sobbing. I don't really recommend this or think that it's a good idea but it's really looking back after it happened I thought I really had a showdown with God that morning because I said, "If you're the only one who can fill this void in my heart, where are you? How does it feel to have that void filled? You know, what...? Come on!"
I found myself face down on our living room floor and I had just come to a wall and I was praying while I was doing my devotions and I got back up and I sat in my chair, my Bible was open and I just again heard God's voice not audibly but He controlled my thoughts. [00:31:59] And what I heard Him say was "I am your dad. I am your Father. I want you to view me like you viewed your dad. I want you to talk to me like you talked to your dad. I want you to trust me like you trusted your dad and most of all I want you to love me like you loved your dad."
I knew at that moment that God was someone I had really never known like He wanted me to know Him. I had realized that my dad was somewhat of an idol to me over the next months and that I had always put God in second or third place next to my dad and to my husband because they were always there for me. They always supplied what I needed.
So I had been converted for 10 years but I was freshly being introduced to who God was that day and my life would never be the same. I was very humbled and I knew that I was changed. And as I finished reading my Bible that morning the words were different. [00:33:09] I actually felt like God and I were having a conversation.
I heard His voice. I knew He was with me. I knew He wanted me to put my full trust in Him. I became as adoring of Him as I was of my dad. I came to the full belief that He and His word were truly one because after that, when I read the Bible, it was just 100% meaningful. I don't know maybe before I was reading it more out of duty but He was communicating with me like He had never done before. I wanted to kiss my Bible because I wanted to kiss God. I would have kissed my dad had he been there.
But from that point on the word really would become my counselor and God would continue to teach me and heal me where my dad left off. He would bring purity and renewal to my heart like my dad never could. [00:34:18]
I don't believe that God took my dad to show me Himself but I do believe that He knew that I would find Him then because that's when I truly searched for Him with my whole heart. So just as Jesus cried out in Hebrews 5:7-8, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save Him." Comfort in my case. He was heard because of His reverent submission. Although He was a son He learned obedience from what He suffered. And He also knew that after I had suffered a little while He Himself would restore me and make me strong, firm, and steadfast because He is the God of all grace.
A kind of funny thing happened later when I had a full understanding of that incident of why God allowed that for me. Because I did. I said, "Lord you're so good to me for sharing yourself like that. I mean that's supernatural." [00:35:25] It wasn't but a few days later I was reading I think it's in Exodus or Deuteronomy where He said, "I showed myself to Moses as a friend by the name of Jehovah. And that's what I did for you. I am your friend. You can call me Daddy."
I mean, there were just several things like that. My life really did change that day and my perspective changed and my understanding changed.
But anyway, later when I sang the song The Solid Rock, I had sung that since I was a child. Knew all the words. But there's a part in that that says "my hope is built on nothing less nothing, less than Jesus blood and righteousness. And I dare not trust the sweetest frame." That sweetest frame was my dad that I was trusting in. So I dare not trust the sweetest frame but wholly lean on Jesus' name. [00:36:35]
And just a lot of songs and the word, the Bible, just took on deep authentic meaning after that. And it's never changed. I mean, I just keep growing and learning more and He keeps revealing more of Himself. It's just a beautiful walk that I want to share with everybody that I know. And I want them to experience that too.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I love all of that for so many reasons. You make me think of a special time when I got to interview my dad about also losing his dad. I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well because that was a special episode. But Grandpa Leman really was so special and yet what the Lord has taught you is available to all of us. He loves to talk to his children.
It's hard to describe and articulate but the Holy Spirit really sounds like He made Himself known to you and real. [00:37:35] And He does live inside of us if we are believers. And so that is so helpful to hear how it's played out in your journey. So thank you for sharing.
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Yes. A lot of times people... if I would say, oh, God said this or God said that... you know, even one of my siblings she said, you know, when you say God said this it, just kind of sounds weird because like people say, When I talk to God that's praying. But when you say God talk to me that's just hard for me to understand. And so it's available. I don't know why He does things to some people and not others but He does speak to us through the Holy Spirit and we can hear Him if we listen.
Laura Dugger: Even that transparency that's so helpful because, like you said, what He's even taught you and it's from John, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. [00:38:41] And so when we read the Bible, those are His words and we get to hear from Him absolutely in that way. So I appreciate all the stories and scriptures you've shared so far.
What other encouragement would you like to leave with us today?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: Well, an impactful scripture for me is Psalm 139. The whole Psalm. It's very affirming to who we are. My love language is words of affirmation. So I love it when God gets specific and says this is who you are and this is what you mean and this is what I do for you.
So to know that He knit me together in my mother's womb and to know that He knit my children together in my womb, how more intimate can you get with your creator and your Father in heaven? That's the impactful verse.
The best encouragement I think I can leave is to leave nothing left unsaid. [00:39:42] Life has so many highs and lows and I think it brings joy to our Father in heaven when we acknowledge our disappointments and celebrate our blessings and thank God for both of those.
Ecclesiastes 5:19 says, When God gives any man wealth and possessions and enables him to enjoy them to accept his lot and be happy in his work this is the gift of God. He seldom reflects on the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with gladness of heart.
In my Bible, in the margin I have "this is my life goal. This is my life theme" because He is with us in awe in the joys and the sorrows. It's easy not to reflect on the bad parts because He keeps us occupied with gladness of heart because of Himself in our lives. So that's my encouragement. [00:40:48]
Laura Dugger: I love it. Kind of along those same lines you are a faithful supporter and listener of The Savvy Sauce so you already know that "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So, MB, is my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Mary Beth Zimmerman: My savvy sauce would be spending time in God's word every day. If it's hard for you to understand it like it was for me at age 19 when I became a believer, then ask God for understanding. He even says that in his word. He will give us wisdom and understanding if we ask. Read the word every day. Read the entire book and you will discover the meaning of your life.
Laura Dugger: Thank you so much for that. I just learned so much from your walk and relationship with Jesus and I love your sense of humor and your willingness just to impart this wisdom and encouragement to each of us. So thank you very much for being my guest. [00:41:59]
Mary Beth Zimmerman: It has been a pleasure. I love you, Laura.
Laura Dugger: I love you too, MB.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:43:02] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:44:02] And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:45:07] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
242 Stories Series: He Gives and Takes Away with Joyce Hodel
7 Oct· The Savvy Sauce
242. Stories Series: He Gives and Takes Away with Joyce Hodel
**Transcription Below**
Philippians 1:21 (NIV) "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
What are some of your highlights of raising children and parenting?Will you share how life unexpectedly and drastically changed on July 3rd, 2009?How has God sustained you through this loss?
Other Episode Mentioned on The Savvy Sauce:
82 Traveling with Your Family with Katie Mueller
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at Lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Joyce Hodel is my guest today. We are originally from the same small town in Central Illinois, a farming community of 2,000 people, and our families have known each other all my life.
Joyce is an exceptional woman with a zest for life, and she's going to share her story now of loss and hope.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Joyce.
Joyce Hodel: Thank you for having me, and I hope we can just talk friend to friend. [00:01:17]
Laura Dugger: Well, let's just begin by going back a bit. When did you surrender your life to Jesus?
Joyce Hodel: I have always known Jesus, and that credit goes to my parents, grandparents. I feel like I've had a legacy of faithful people in my life that just gave me stability. They were believers, and so right from the beginning, church and parents have been credit to them that they believed.
When I was 17, it's always a struggle to surrender yourself, and I was very busy in high school and probably was distracted and didn't want to focus so much on my spiritual life. But one night, I had a dream. And I remember in the dream, the newspaper came out, and it said, "Three days to the end of the world." [00:02:17] I was frightened. I woke up, and I was sweating, literally sweating, physically sweating, and I thought, "Oh, this is what hell is going to feel like. I've got to do something."
But I just tried to forget it, and I laid back down again. The next day, I went to work. I worked at the nursing home. It was the summer out of my senior year. That day when I got home, I did tell my mom that I had that dream, and she guided me, instructed me. She said, "Well, I just remember a pastor saying one time that sometimes we just need a knock on our head to make us move, to take a position."
And so that day at work, this little old lady came into my kitchen where I worked, and she said, "Could I have a glass of apple juice?" And I said, "Sure." I have done this hundreds of times, but I walked over to the big cooler, and instead of turning the corner, I ran straight into the wall, and I backed up, and I thought, "Mom, that's my knock on the head." [00:03:31] So from that point on, I felt that God was definitely calling me to walk with Him, and I have never turned back.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I had never heard that before. That is so incredible. He's so personal and unique in the way that He calls each of us.
Joyce Hodel: He is.
Laura Dugger: There's also a very important man that came into your life named Steve. Do you remember the first time that you met Steve?
Joyce Hodel: I don't remember the exact first time I met him. I was working in the summer. I was a teacher, so in the summer, I would be a waitress at a little restaurant in town called Raleigh's. And him and his brothers would come in for coffee or breakfast, and they were the kind that teased, and so I always enjoyed them, especially Steve. I loved his humor, his dry sense of humor. [00:04:29]
He then was converted at about age 29, and so he attended my church, and I met him. You know, he would travel with all the kids, all the young group, and so we just kind of got to know each other that way. I think we both were attracted, and we just had a fun, easygoing relationship.
But I started to think about him more. I remember him asking me things, kind of just... this is just Steve. He came to school once while I was teaching in the morning, and I said, "What are you doing here?" I don't know if he was checking me out or what.
But I remember when he finally asked me to be his wife, he came over for the first time. I had said yes, and he came over to my house, and I said, "What? Why me?" [00:05:29] He gave me an interesting answer. He said, "You seem happy most of the time. You are a good conversationist, and he was more of a quiet, stand-by-the-wall person. And he said, "I watched your mother, and I liked what I saw." And I thought that was so deep that he watched my mother.
Now, the joke on him was, I am more like my dad. So I'm glad my mother had a rich personality, but I kind of had the personality of my dad. But I guess that's what he based. And he knew I was a Christian, you know, that was part of it. But those are the three answers he gave me. And I thought, "How interesting!" Then we had an engagement, and yeah, got married. [00:06:29]
Laura Dugger: And then progressing in your story, next step, you were blessed with children. What was your experience like becoming a mother?
Joyce Hodel: Okay, when I was teaching when I was single, I really enjoyed the ornery little guys. And so I thought, "Oh, I think I'm always going to have boys." Didn't know anything. You know, I grew up with two other sisters and a brother. But when I was growing up, I played football out in the yard with the guys and stuff. So I just was kind of, yeah, into little guys, active little boys. And I ended up having three girls.
We lived on a farm. And I am so thankful for my girls now. I think because I had two sisters, and we are very close, we were all in high school together, senior, junior, freshman. They are my best friends. We shared a bedroom. And so because of that, I wanted my kids close in age. I feel like I have the same thing in my girls. [00:07:32] They have the same thing that I had as I was growing up. And it was very special.
Laura Dugger: Well, and some people may even remember your firstborn daughter. She's been a guest before on The Savvy Sauce. I just told you before we recorded, I was actually re-listening to her fabulous episode on traveling with family. So I can add a link of that in today's show notes.
But Joyce, when you reflect back on raising them, what are some of the highlights of raising your daughters?
Joyce Hodel: I have always believed it was vitally important to be there for my kids. So when Katie was born, I was done teaching for a while. I thought I'm going to concentrate on them. I don't want anyone else to raise my children. You have a window of time. It was very important to me, vitally important to be the first voice in the lives of my kids.
Highlights of raising children and parenting. [00:08:33] I can tell you I have enjoyed every single stage. Having fun with them, being a teacher, I guess. Maybe I have ideas. You can call them creative. But we would have Tipsy Tuesday. And I told them at the supper table they could sit wherever they wanted. Usually, people have regular spots, dad and mom too. That was such a simple thing that they just enjoyed. So they would always take Dad's seat or something. That was one thing we did.
We had Family Game Night often where they each got to choose a game. And they were little. Sometimes it was just button, button, who's got the button. Old, old game. I encouraged them.
We would have rainy-day picnics, wintertime picnics, just on the floor of our kitchen or in the living room. Anything you can do out of the ordinary seems to work for kids. [00:09:33]
Think outside the box. Always encourage them, help them with their homework. Encourage them to do the hard thing. Don't always take the easy way. Push yourself.
I wanted to train them to work as my mother had trained me. We had job sticks. Every Saturday they pulled sticks out of the jar, and they were hoping for one that was easy. But it didn't always work that way. I had like 15 of them. Just things like sweep off the porch or clean the bathroom, whatever. So we did that.
We have done a lot of traveling over the U.S. and Europe and Africa. If I asked my kids, my girls, what was the most important thing or what kept our family together and close, I think it would be traveling together, camping together. Always planned a big trip.[00:10:34] And so that's where Katie got her love of traveling because I loved it too.
I loved each phase and stage, and I love it now when I can talk to them as adults. Sometimes they're your mentors. It's not always me mentoring them. They teach me now that they're older.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: Joyce, even talking with you now, your smile and your joy is just so natural. It seems to just bubble out of you. But you're also not untouched by tragedy. So will you share how life unexpectedly and drastically changed on July 3rd, 2009?
Joyce Hodel: Yes, it's been over 14 years, so it's easier to talk about it now. But just to give you a little background of how God prepares you. The night before Steve was killed, I was out in my yard and a neighbor walked by. [00:13:39] We got talking about some happenings that had come out in the newspaper, or, I don't know, we just took rabbit trails down that there are times children are born that are kind of born late or maybe handicapped or challenged and you wonder how you're going to navigate through that.
And we were talking about certain women in our church or in our community that had children that, late in life, that, you know, my neighbor said that lost their husband. So there's a reason for those children. And I said to her... now on a side note, I have never said this to anyone in my life. The thought came from heaven, I think. But I said, "I will probably have a daughter that is on the autistic spectrum and I think she will always live with us." [00:14:40] And I said at the end of that conversation, "I wonder if I'm going to lose my husband early." And the next day he was killed.
And I have never forgotten that I said that. In fact, this neighbor said, "I can't believe you said that." And I said, "That's just how it was." So that's a little background.
We had been invited to a friend's house for supper that night and then we went up to the fireworks. It was on July 3rd. It was the tradition of Roanoke to have it the day before, a big city one. It is customary for people just to put their chairs anywhere. We were in the street. The men went to the car show but then came back.
At the finale, I remember we were holding hands and the finale shot up. And that is exactly when we heard a huge roar of an engine. [00:15:42] It just happened real quick. Didn't know what happened. But an older lady, she was about 89, first time she had been at the fireworks. She wanted to beat the traffic and so she was going to head out right at the finale and she stepped on the gas instead of the brake. And so she plowed all of us down. And Steve just happened to be caught under her car. So she ran over his chest and his abdomen.
And then she was just frozen in place in the car. 15 guys came around the car and lifted the car off of his body and then they pulled him out. From that point on, I just can say what I've heard. We all were hit. But he is the one that was caught under the car. I had a big wound on my foot. My head had to be stapled. I felt the car's wheels go over my leg. I remember that. [00:16:45] But I think his larger body just lifted it up and it didn't break my leg or anything.
So my sister and myself, we were all in the emergency room but we weren't as severe as him. We were transported by ambulance and he was taken by Life Flight. My prayer in the ambulance going, I wasn't sure where everybody was, but I heard the helicopter go overhead and I said to the medic, "Is that my husband?" And he said, "Yes." And I said, "Oh, he must be bad if he's in the helicopter." And he said, "Yes, he is."
And I remember praying, which was real odd for me, too. I said, "Oh, Lord, if he... excuse me. If he can't be what he wants to be, you take him." Because it would have been very hard for Steve to stop farming, and he would have felt like he was a burden to me. [00:17:46] So that was my prayer. And so then when we got to the hospital, the doctor came in and said they tried to save him, but they couldn't.
There were so many things that happened that I know God's hand was. They had practiced with the helicopter in the Roanoke field two weeks prior to that. Never had that been done before. They worked on him. My sister knew this because she was watching the fireworks from way back. And she said the helicopter turned off for 20 minutes. And it never turns off unless they're not going to transport them. They're gone already.
And she said after 20 minutes, she said, "All of a sudden it started again and they took him." They worked for 20 minutes and got a pulse." And I have been thankful for that small detail ever since because the girls and I got to see him again and touch him. [00:18:48]
And if he would have died on the field, we would have seen him in the casket, and that's it. So it was a real closure for us at the hospital. We got to be in a room with him. He was gone, but you could still ruffle his hair and touch him, and talk to him. So that was a real blessing in our life.
Laura Dugger: The helicopter stopped, but then they were able to get a pulse and you were at the same hospital, and your girls came and met you there.
Joyce Hodel: My entire family came. I remember them wheeling me out of the emergency room to go over and see him, and it was just kind of like a circle of angels or people that loved you, both sides of the family. We're just all there, nieces and nephews, and with sad faces. I mean, I think they knew something was severe. It was something I'll never forget. [00:19:48]
And then I stayed the night, and they patched me up, and my daughter stayed with me. Katie had just had a new baby, a two-week-old baby. And that's another detail that, to me, God took care of. She was due the time of the accident, and she said, "Mom, look at that. God made that baby come early, so I would be... you know, the worst part would be over, I guess, the birth and everything."
So, yeah, he just takes care of details that we have no idea. He's working in the shadows and the background all the time. There is never a detail that is overlooked.
I remember telling my daughter after the fact, days later, we talked a lot on the phone, and I said, "Oh...." It was something in me. I never wanted a loved one to die on a holiday or near a holiday, because I thought every time that holiday comes around, you're just going to be sad again. [00:20:54] So that was a thing for me.
And I was telling my daughter that on the phone once, and she said, "Mom, it was the 4th of July. Dad is free." And I have never forgotten that, that one holiday that Dad is free from all his... He was due to have open-heart surgery, Laura. But the doctor that spring... he had told the doctor that he couldn't do that because it was farming season, planting season. And he just couldn't have open-heart surgery.
Laura Dugger: What a true farmer.
Joyce Hodel: A true farmer that just didn't want his life interrupted. But I thought God knew the future and thought, "Nope, you don't have to go through that." He had a pin and 13 screws in his ankle. He had broken it a couple years before that. He had diabetes. So those things have just made me understand and realize that he was free from his worn-out body, and it was his time. [00:22:03]
Laura Dugger: Well, he was free on Independence Day.
Joyce Hodel: Yes.
Laura Dugger: And we all yearn for that day to be with Jesus in glory. And yet, being left back here at that point, was there anything meaningful that as you reflect back, it really stands out about what loved ones did to surround you through all these seasons of grief?
Joyce Hodel: Definitely. I just had family and friends, and it was good therapy to go back to school again. In August, you know, that was a place that Steve... he wasn't there. And so I wasn't always reminded. It was just good therapy.
I always prayed for healthy grieving. I would talk to the social worker, psychologist at school. You know, we talked a lot. And so I feel that I took one day at a time. I didn't look too far ahead, and then I thought, then I'll do tomorrow. [00:23:04]
God gave me little hugs along the way, if you want to call them. I do want to tell you something that happened to me. It was about six days after he died, and I was sleeping. I had a tough time sleeping, but this night I woke up, and it was more of a not really a dream. I would call it a vision. No one can take it away from me. It was so real.
I woke up, and I heard wings in my room, angels' wings. It was the flutter of wings. They were right to the right of me. Katie had told me once on the phone... I was holding his hand at the 4th of July, and I said, "Oh, I wish I would have kissed him. I wish I would have had one last kiss."
So the flutter of wings, Steve was right above me, his face, and I remember reaching up and him reaching down, and we had a light kiss. [00:24:11] And there was a bright light in my room, and he was gone. I got up right away, and I called my daughter, I said, "You wouldn't believe what happened to me." I've never had anything so impactful happen, I thought, that the God of the universe that has so many troubles to take care of, He gave me a final kiss, and then He was gone.
That's something that was very personal to me. I didn't know whether to say it, but if it can, God is such a personal God. He gives you what you need when you need it.
Laura Dugger: I am a wreck hearing this. That is beautiful. I am so grateful you shared that. Even the scripture I was in this morning was just talking about telling God's marvelous deeds to the next generation. And Joyce, you were telling that is a marvelous deed of our loving Father. [00:25:15] So thank you for sharing that.
How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully, you've been blessed through the content. And now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode, or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.
Was there any other special way? When you talk about God hugs, is there anything along the way that stands out as something that He showed you, "I haven't forgotten you. I'm still with you"?
Joyce Hodel: Right. I think you have to saturate yourself with the word. The word speaks to you. You know, there is an answer and a comfort for everything that you're feeling. Is there a specific verse or something? I always found that what I needed at the time, He gave to me freely, whether it's in the Psalms or... [00:26:20]
I remember the sermon the first time I went to church. It was a visiting pastor. And he said something I wrote down in my journal. "Everything is on schedule." And I just remembered when you think that it's not what you expected, it's a mistake. Why in the world did that lady... was she up there? Why was I there on sitting on the street?
You know, everything's on schedule. There isn't anything that happens that is coincidence or that God isn't aware of. And so, yeah, my family and my friends just surrounded me.
When you believe in the sovereignty of God, it lessens your suffering. It lessens anything you are going through if you believe. He is such a complete God. He is over everything. Even though when we think we control or we do something, it's not you. He put it all together. [00:27:21] He set it up.
I found that gratitude, look at what you have and not what you've lost, is very healing. You have to self-talk sometimes. You know, it says to take every thought captive. I found myself doing that. Just take a thought when the evil one tries to lie to you and discourage you. You just don't listen to that evil voice. You take it captive and you go to the word and it turns you around.
Laura Dugger: That even makes me wonder what was that process of forgiveness like for that older woman?
Joyce Hodel: You know, Laura, I never was real angry with her. She came to our house a couple days later. My girls maybe didn't understand. But I feel like grace is given when you need it. [00:28:22] People would say to me, "How can you be not angry? How can you be...? And I just thought, "Well, you don't need the grace." He doesn't give it to you. But I've got a whole load of it." And I do give all credit to God. I never was really angry with her.
25 News came out, 31 News. They came into our house and the reporter wanted to know what I felt about this woman. Well, at the time, I had a 90-year-old mother. They wanted a shock treatment. They wanted you to blame someone. And so I hope that God gave me the grace to say it wasn't intentional. It was an accident. She didn't mean to do that. She just got flustered and stepped on the gas. And I said it could happen to anyone. So that was a process that I really didn't have to deal too hard with. So I'm thankful.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. And yes, it does point to His grace. Joy is a part of your name in Joyce, and that does exude out of you. And yet, going through something like this, was joy able to return into your life again? [00:29:41]
Joyce Hodel: It was. My sister asked me once, what was the hardest time of the week? What was the loneliest time? And I said, "Friday night." We always used to go out because after the school was over, it was kind of like date night. We'd always go out. Megan would go with us or we'd meet somebody. I said, "That's probably the hardest time I look at and I think, Oh, I'm not going to have that again."
So to this day, I go out with my sisters on Friday night. I mean, they just started that. My brother made me 11 CDs of music. He had lost his daughter years earlier, and I think he knew that music filled my house. Music about heaven. Music about tough things that people go through. Hope.
I think music is the voice of hope. So I just filled my home with music and it strengthened me. And so family and friends, you know, whether you went for lunch or coffee or prayers. [00:30:47]
I had a teacher tell me at school, and it wasn't one that I was real close to, but she told me she prayed for me every single day for two years. And I was humbled by that. So you don't know where all the strength is coming from, but it's coming. I am part of a wonderful church family and my own extended family and intermediate family.
Laura Dugger: Well, and it's a good reminder. Even hearing this today, we can still be praying for one another, building each other up. You're such a role model. You're so inspiring with the way you walked through this. Is there any other encouragement that you would want to offer, whether someone is going through their own heartache and loss or a loved one of somebody who is? What would you like to say to them?
Joyce Hodel: I think everybody has a different journey of the way they carry on. I would tell anybody to, like you say, always go to the word and pray. [00:31:49] But sometimes... there were times I couldn't pray. No words came. And then I just said, Okay, Lord, you're going to have to pray for me. You say the words. You give me the strength that I don't even know what to ask for. I feel like He always gives more than He takes away. He is a giver, not a taker.
Keep busy. School helped a lot, just being busy. That was something that I needed to do. If you sit around in the darkness and emptiness, you're only perpetuating that. So go out, even if you don't feel like asking someone... It's real difficult. When you are a widow, you don't have a partner, it's difficult to call people, to initiate things, to be the aggressive one because you think, Oh, they're just going to do it because they feel sorry for me. I don't want to obligate them. [00:32:49] So you wait for somebody to call you. But that is probably not the way to be.
You have to kind of push yourself and get yourself out there and try to not be a miserable person that nobody wants to be around. I do feel like his self-talk regulates your out-of-control emotions. It just kind of gets you focused and thinking ahead. Or just today, not even ahead. Just, I can do today. I can do this hour. Don't know what's coming tomorrow, and nobody else does either.
I feel that He has put me in a place where I had a lot of love and friends and family that carried me. Or it's kind of like Jesus carrying you through them, and they do. And so I hope to do that for others. I think everything that happens, happens so we can pass it on, so we can do what has been done for us to comfort someone else. [00:34:04]
Laura Dugger: Well, and you do that so well. When you talk about making sure you're not a miserable person to be around, you are so far at the opposite of that and always have been. I've known you my whole life, and you're cheerful and exuberant. That is such a good challenge for each of us, regardless of why it's difficult to reach out and initiate.
I love that push to do that because that is love in action. And people would miss out so much if they didn't get to hang out with you because you're so enjoyable.
Joyce Hodel: Oh, Lord. I also think that the forgiveness, you always need to forgive something, whether it's something somebody says or does to you, or even in your mind, if you've conjured up something that they didn't even mean, whether it's on your screen or whatever. That forgiving and forgetting is a major step in a healthy outlook. [00:35:08] It only makes you miserable. We think it's going to hurt the other guy, but it doesn't. You've heard that. It only makes you miserable. So just try to think that they didn't do that on purpose, they don't dislike me, and just show them love. Shower them with love.
Laura Dugger: Well, I think that's even modeling what you're talking about with the self-talk. Rather than listening to ourselves or really listening to the enemy, you're being proactive to fight against that, to talk against that, even in forgiveness. I know I've told you that I've always thought I love that joy is in your name because it just comes out of you.
We've covered some weighty topics, and I'd love to end with a more lighthearted note. You know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question for you today, Joyce, what's your savvy sauce? [00:36:08]
Joyce Hodel: I think you always need to remember. I journal so I can remember. You know, to write this down. You think you're going to remember, but you don't. All the details... I have a diary that's just a line a day, and so you can look back. It's a five-year one that if you don't want to get bogged down with writing a whole bunch, just write something significant, something important, something you want to remember.
So I think God always wants His people to remember, and so if you do that, whether it's by journaling or just somebody jogging your memory, I feel that His faithfulness will come through. And that is what you want to remember. That no matter what happens, He's always with you. He's faithful. He's there.
Laura Dugger: He's there. You have shared that so well in such a personal way, and I'm so grateful for your relationship with the Lord, that you get to see Steve again in heaven someday, and that you were so generous to be transparent with each of us, to offer each of us hope, and to pass along the comfort that you've been comforted with. [00:37:29] So Joyce, it has been a sincere pleasure to host you. Thank you for being my guest.
Joyce Hodel: Thank you for being a good hostess.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. [00:38:28]
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. [00:39:32] You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. [00:40:30] Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
241 Stories Series: From the Mission Field, Experiencing God in the Little and the Big with Patty Sommer
30 Sep· The Savvy Sauce
241. Stories Series: From the Mission Field, Experiencing God in the Little and the Big with Patty Sommer
**Transcription Below**
Psalms 7:11-12 (AMP) "I will [solemnly] remember the deeds of the Lord; Yes, I will [wholeheartedly] remember Your wonders of old. I will meditate on all Your works And thoughtfully consider all Your [great and wondrous] deeds."
Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Mentioned:
204 Charlotte Mason Inspired Mini-Series: A Delectable Education with Emily Kiser
Patreon 55 Charlotte Mason Inspired Mini-Series: Embracing a Robust Life with Nicole Williams
Patreon 56 Charlotte Mason Inspired Mini-Series: Imparting Morals to Our Children with Liz Cottrill
Questions and Topics We Cover:
What miracles, big and small, have you witnessed from God throughout your life?What is something we may not know that is true of many missionary families?What does a typical day look like in your world?
Patty Sommer is a Michigander by birth, though she has now lived in Ghana, West Africa for longer than she lived in Michigan. She is a follower of Jesus, wife to her best friend John for 21 years, and mother of 4 girls. She recently came to the realization that she is no longer a "young mom," but squarely in middle age, learning how to mother all her kiddos well, with her oldest 7,000 miles away at school in Tennessee and her youngest just finishing 4th grade. Her family is also in a transition in Ghana, as they are stepping out of a church plant that is very close to being autonomous and preparing to start a new one. Patty loves discipling young wives and mothers, and getting to share all God has taught her. She is a bookworm but does almost all her reading at night when the house is quiet. She loves spending time in nature, studying educational philosophy, and writing. She is currently seeking to master the art of sourdough bread.
Connect with Patty:
Instagram
Blog
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Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Thank you to the Sue Neihouser team for sponsoring this episode. If you're looking to buy or sell a home this season, make sure you reach out to Sue at (309) 229-8831. Sue would love to walk alongside you as you unlock new doors.
We are continuing our series of stories today with Patty Sommer as my guest. Patty loves to lift up God's name by sharing his faithfulness in her life and telling people of His personal acts of love. I think you're going to be very encouraged by her stories.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Patty.
Patty Sommer: Thank you so much. It's such a joy to be here.
Laura Dugger: Well, we'd all love to get to know you a little bit better first, so will you begin by telling us a bit about yourself? [00:01:19]
Patty Sommer: Okay. So I was born and raised in Michigan by two Kentuckians, which is kind of a funny thing. They had just moved to Michigan, a young couple. And being from Kentucky, they were very nervous about moving to the far north, they thought. That's a place that for many years I called home.
Then in 2003, the Lord called my husband and I to Ghana, West Africa as missionaries. And we have now been here almost 21 years, which is hard to believe. I was raised in a Christian home, as was my husband, which has been such a huge blessing for us as missionaries.
Our parents and our grandparents on both sides have always been so supportive of us and so excited that we've been called to share the gospel with people here.
I have four girls, from 19 all the way down to nine. And we love learning and growing together, and we're so thankful for what God has called us to here in Ghana.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Was this something that was on your radar from a young age, or what was it that led you and your family to the mission field? [00:02:24]
Patty Sommer: Okay, so I actually did not like the idea of missions when I was young. I actually went through a time in my early teens where I really was feeling a leading, a prompting that way. I said, "Lord, I'll do anything but that."
Even though I had been raised meeting many missionaries, my parents had always been very positive, I just couldn't imagine leaving my home country and leaving my family and going halfway around the world to another place. So for about two or three years, I really struggled with that.
When missionaries would come to our home church and visit, I would try to pay no attention. I'd actually close my eyes during their little slide presentations and things. I really wanted nothing to do with it. When I was 14 years old, my best friend's big sister and her husband left for the mission field of Cambodia. And they were the first people I had personally known to go to the mission field.
We were at a summer camp, and actually this new missionary, her father, was the one leading devotions one night around the fire, and he was just talking about being willing to do what God asked us to do. [00:03:32] And I remember just this internal battle. The Holy Spirit just questioning me, would I be willing to surrender to what He had for me?
I remember distinctly saying this really silly statement now that I look back at it, that, "Okay, God, I will surrender to go to the mission field, but I know I'll be miserable the rest of my life," because I knew that's what it was going to be like.
But after I made that commitment really everything changed for me. The Holy Spirit really began to work in my heart, and He changed it, that instead of being a thing I never wanted to do, it being the thing I wanted to do with all of my life. And He worked that in me and I went off to Bible college. I met my husband there, and he, at the time that we met, he already knew that the Lord wanted him on the mission field.
We actually went on a college trip, and we came to the mission field of Ghana as a college trip. And that's how the Lord really began working in both of our hearts to come here as missionaries. [00:04:32]
Laura Dugger: Wow. Let's see. So then the timeline, so that was the first visit there, and you were already married then when you actually moved, and you did not have children at this point.
Patty Sommer: So we came on a college trip. It was actually through the university that we were attending, and so we weren't even dating at the time. We were acquaintances. Not long after that, we actually started dating and then started praying about where we should go.
So my husband actually came... We weren't married yet. He came back on another trip just to pray about if this was really the place for us or if that had just been, you know, the place that you see really affect you. I was back in the States and just praying also. And when he came back from the trip, he said, "No, I think this is where the Lord wants us."
So he graduated from college, and we were in Ghana... We got married, I think, two weeks after he graduated, and we were in Ghana a year later. So really quick transition out of college.
Laura Dugger: Wow. And what kind of missionary work did you go over to do in Ghana? [00:05:35]
Patty Sommer: So we do church planting. Along with church planting, of course, missionaries end up wearing lots and lots of hats, I've learned. But our primary role is church planters. That also includes training of nationals. We do literacy work. We teach in the public schools and do Bible clubs there.
We are actually running a small library that we're slowly working on building to help people have access to more literature and things like that. But our primary role is as church planters.
Laura Dugger: That all sounds so fascinating. You're right, that is a lot of hats to wear. But then also, when you moved to West Africa, did that influence your decision to eventually home-educate your children?
Patty Sommer: My degree is in L.Ed., and so I had this beautiful idea of coming here and setting up my own little classroom. I thought that was the best way to go. That's what we started with. I mean, I even put a bulletin board up in my house, as funny as that sounds, because that's how I'd been trained. [00:06:39]
Then I brought over an entire curriculum. I mean, everything was going to be just like in a school classroom. And then the Lord really started working in our hearts and really changing that up because of a few different things. So homeschooling, I knew, would always be something I'd have to do, but how we've gone about it has changed quite a bit.
Laura Dugger: So was there eventually a philosophy that you chose to follow, or do you want to elaborate on that journey?
Patty Sommer: Sure. So my oldest daughter is actually dyslexic, and I did not know that, of course. So we started right out, and, I mean, I drill it and kill it. I mean, we did the little blend ladders and everything exactly how I'd learned as a teacher, and we were not making a whole lot of progress.
And I kept thinking, "Well, you know, we just aren't working hard enough." Every day we would get done with school, and I'd think this isn't what I thought school was going to look like with my child." And so we just began to really pray, weren't sure what to do. [00:07:42] Nothing seemed to be working. I mean, I started right out at age four and so many things. And not that there's anything wrong with those things, but it just wasn't working for our family.
So we actually went back on a furlough when our oldest daughter was 7 going on 8, and we put her in the school actually that I grew up in and had taught him for a while before we came to the field. And I thought, "Okay, this teacher is great. She'll fix all my daughter's problems." Well, that was definitely the wrong way to look at it.
The teacher came to us just a few weeks into the school year, and she said, "Your daughter has dyslexia." And I said, "Okay, so what does that mean? How do I fix this?" Because in my mind, I consider that a problem. And she said, "Well, if you were living in the States, you know, we'd get you right in with a reading specialist." And she gave me the whole list. And she said, "But since you're going back to Ghana, I don't know what to tell you."
And so I went to my husband, I said, "What are we going to do?" And he said, "You've got this time. We're back on furlough to figure out what the Lord wants us to do. [00:08:43] I trust that you'll make a good decision."
I had already been digging a little bit, trying to find, you know, answers to what was happening in our home and in our school room. And I just kept coming across the name Charlotte Mason. And every time I read something about Charlotte Mason or Charlotte Mason homeschooling, it really struck a chord with me.
From the pictures I saw and the stories I read, I thought, "This is, I think, what I'm looking for." And so I just began to pray, and the Lord just opened up door after door. I met people along the way. And so when we came back, my daughter had just turned eight, my oldest daughter, and at that point, she could not put together two-letter words.
I said, "Okay, Lord, you're going to have to help us with this." And we dove into the Charlotte Mason philosophy of education as best I knew how, which wasn't really great at the time and we just began making tiny steps. And when she was 10 1⁄2, she was able to read her first book on her own. [00:09:42]
But more than that, it became the philosophy that our family needed. It has been such a gift to our family in so many ways, I can't even count.
But the Lord used something that I saw as a difficulty at the time to actually lead us to something that we just absolutely love and encourage everyone who's interested or struggles with any of these things to at least take a look at Charlotte Mason's philosophy of education.
Laura Dugger: We did do a series previously on The Savvy Sauce, and I'll make sure and add those links in the show notes if anybody wants to dive in deeper. But we are having a few more conversations on this podcast about homeschooling, and I'm so intrigued. So if you could, I know this is really difficult, but if you could just boil down a few tenets of the Charlotte Mason philosophy that have been most beneficial to your family, what are a few points that you'd share?
Patty Sommer: One of the very first things that really struck me, Laura, is that because my daughter couldn't read, she couldn't do the work. [00:10:48] So much of a box curriculum... and there are some good ones out there. I'm not saying that box curriculums are bad, but they really are geared for children who read very, very quickly and can comprehend what they're reading, and can write quickly. And she could do none of those things.
So I felt like using a workbook, she just kept getting farther and farther behind, and I had to do everything with her and everything for her.
When I read about Charlotte Mason's ideas of narration, which is the idea of a passage being read, and if the child cannot read it being read to them, and then the child narrating back or telling back what they have heard, that just really struck me that I thought that that could work with my daughter.
My daughter is very artistically talented, and so even the idea that at times she could do drawn narrations and there wasn't a huge emphasis right away on her having to write a lot upfront right away.
So that really helped Carrie also, in that she didn't have to try to take all the decoding she was having to do and then try to make her hands do that and think of how to spell things. [00:11:57] She could just speak back to me what she was learning. And I began to see fruit from it very, very quickly.
She didn't read immediately. I had hoped that this was like the magical ingredient. I've since learned many, many things about dyslexia, one that it can be a blessing, but that it didn't fix what I thought was a problem. But it did help her to have the tools that she needed so she could continue to learn and grow alongside of her learning to read, not being hindered by her inability to read.
It allowed us as a family to begin to look at learning in a whole new light. I loved also the emphasis Charlotte Mason places on the observations made by the child, that they are bringing their own mind to bear on the work that they're given to do. So spending time out in nature, considering what it is that they have read, taking time to read beautiful poetry and beautiful books. [00:12:56]
I was raised by a reader. I'm a bookworm. And my mother always was very particular that we read good books. She called the books that weren't as healthy cotton candy. That's what my mother called them. So she always made sure I had a diet of good books.
That also really drew me to Charlotte Mason's curriculum because I wanted my children to read the best. I wanted them to have the opportunity to read from many wise people who've gone on before us. So when I found this philosophy, I really began to see how it would work for our family.
And because it was a philosophy, it wasn't just me having to order a bunch of workbooks and trying to get them to us here in Ghana and the cost involved in all of that. There was a bit more freedom, too, to use what we were able to find where we were at.
Laura Dugger: And even that word freedom, that's what comes to mind when I learn more about this philosophy because Charlotte Mason believed in short lessons. [00:13:57] And when you put this all together, it's only a few hours total.
And even going back to you mentioning there are so many requirements of missionaries or so many hats that you're wearing, it sounds like you've really had a robust life with this homeschooling philosophy, that your family can be involved in so many things beyond just school.
Patty Sommer: I think another thing that I love, too, is she makes the point that education is a life. Education isn't something that we do from just 8 to 3, Monday through Friday. Everything we do in life can teach us something.
And I love that aspect, too, because there are days when we get a phone call and something odd happens, we have to deal with something. Someone's sick in the hospital and they need food taken to them, there's an emergency. That my children, just because they're not in this exact classroom 8 to 3, that they're not learning.
Just on Saturday, we were out visiting as a family, and we live in a huge city, over 4 million people, but there are still pockets that aren't city-like. [00:15:04] And one of those areas is actually in the middle of a huge area of factories, but kind of in the middle, this area has been left, and there's charcoal fields there. Because many people maybe are aware of the fact that in most of the Third World, people still have to use something to make their cook fires. So here in Ghana, it's charcoal.
What they do is they actually take wood and they smoke it and make it harder so that the wood lasts longer. That's really what charcoal is. It's been made for millennia.
But as we were going through there visiting the people, they were getting to see this, and we talked about it on the way back, what wisdom God has given mankind that they could figure out how to take wood and make it into a fuel that could burn longer and burn better for them, and just all the different things. And all of those things are adding up, stacking up every day for my children, and even myself, to grow in wisdom and the knowledge of mankind and the knowledge of God and the knowledge of the world He's created. So it is a very freeing philosophy of education, and it has been a huge blessing to all of us as a family. [00:16:09]
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: I oftentimes have not met many other moms of four daughters. So do you have any other parenting wisdom to impart from your experience so far?
Patty Sommer: Oh boy. Parenting wisdom, that's a dangerous question to ask. I will say this. Again, I will quote Charlotte Mason because this, I think, was the quote that really struck me the most the first time I read it. She said, "The question is not how much does the youth know when he is finished with his education, but how much does he care?" And that quote goes on. There's a lot to it.
But I think one of the things that I have loved to see grow in my girls is the fact that they do care. [00:19:35] We live in a world where a lot of people are angry a lot and say they care a lot. But I think in actuality, we don't see many people who really take that caring and do something with it. If that makes sense. Many times it's just the agitation of the moment, the thing that is being put in front of our eyes or in our ears. But to see people who really care.
And I believe that when we pursue knowledge for God's sake, that that is what we will raise is children who care. I'm sure that you have been given lots of good advice over the years, but I think that that's the one thing that I'm so thankful that the Lord has led us. That it's not about knowing just something. It's not about getting a grade. But seeing in my children the fruit of the fact that because we have learned to care, that they are learning to care, that they're desiring to see God do a work in this world, not for their own benefit, not for material gain, but because they love the world that God has made and they love Him and they want to see other people come to know Him and see them grow in Him. [00:20:50]
Laura Dugger: Patty, what miracles, big and small, have you witnessed from God throughout your life?
Patty Sommer: I have so many. I'm going to have to limit myself. I grew up reading missionary biographies. They're one of my favorite genres to read. And they have been so encouraging to me along the way. But I remember reading stories and thinking, Well, that used to happen to missionaries. But I can say that God still does miracles for missionaries and not just missionaries. He does miracles for his children.
A couple that I love to share. One of them is about a big thing and then one is about something a little bit smaller, maybe.
Our third daughter, she was born in the States when we were on one of our furloughs. She was actually born... she's my fastest, fastest delivery. I was in the hospital 18 minutes before she showed up. She was born and they did a quick check and they said everything was good and they sent us up to the hospital room. [00:21:53]
She was really cold, and I didn't think anything of it. I just thought it's cold in the hospital. And a few hours later, they were coming around doing the checks for, you know, their hearing and their sight, and there was a NICU nurse who it was really quiet on the NICU floor that night. And they had just asked her to come down and help because a bunch of babies had been born that day.
She came in, she started doing the hearing test and she kind of gave us a funny look, and she said, "I'm going to take your baby out just for a minute to check a couple of things." And we didn't think anything of it. And then about an hour later, I looked at my husband, I said, "Where is our daughter? Can you please find that nurse?" I was starting to get a little panicky.
And he came back and he just had this look of shock on his face and he said, "She's been admitted to the NICU. She has a heart problem." We found out that day that she had a problem with her PDA valve. To make a complex thing fairly simple, there's a valve between the lungs and the heart in a baby that is open while they're in the mother's womb. [00:22:50] After birth, it's supposed to close immediately or within the first few hours, but hers would not close. So her body could not process oxygen correctly.
We ended up in the NICU for two solid weeks while they were trying to get her stable. That was a very difficult situation. When she was ready to go home, they said, "Most of the time, this will close on its own but you really need to see a doctor before she turns three, because if a child has it longer than that, the heart will enlarge and it can cause her great difficulty as she ages, even to the point of it, at some point, it could kill her.
Of course, we knew we were coming back to Ghana and so we just prayed, "Lord, just heal her up." And she seemed fine to us, but she was also five years younger than the sister above her. She was a very slow baby, very sleepy. And like I said, because she was so much younger, we thought, "You know, maybe you don't remember. Maybe all of our babies were like this." [00:23:50]
Then I found out we were expecting our fourth daughter, and she was born, and she was just full of so much energy. And I kept comparing my two girls, and I thought, "There's something wrong here. So we just have a clinic that we've used here for many years. One of the doctors there he's quite old. He's in his 80s, but still practicing.
So we just took her in and said, "Doctor, I don't know if you know anything about this. Here's the situation. Is there any way you could check and see if this valve might still be open in her heart?" She was two and a half at the time. And he did a couple really quick checks and he said, "Oh, yes." He said, "I can actually hear the backflow in her heart. This is going to need surgery."
And I said, "Well, do you know anything about this?" And he sat down and began to tell me how he'd actually dealt with a young lady 30 years prior in Ghana that had had the same thing. But actually, she was a grown woman. He was talking me through, and he said, "No, she needs surgery." [00:24:51] And I said, "Well, where can I get... what kind of surgery?" He's like, "Well, it's a heart surgery. It's not huge, but it's also not small." And he said, "There's no one in this city who can do this heart surgery." He said, "You're going to have to go to the capital city."
So we just began praying. We knew of some missionary doctors in Togo, which is the country to our east. They have a hospital there. And so we started praying and just kind of putting out feelers to different people we knew. And we were able to get the numbers. And we made a phone call and were able to talk to the heart doctor there. He said, "There's no way with the visa issues that you can get your daughter to us. And even if so, we don't have the equipment to do this surgery." He said, "She'll have to have this kind of heart test. She'll have to have this checked by a pediatric cardiologist. She'll have to have this, this, this." He said, "But there is one hospital in the capital city where this can be done." And so he gave us some information, and we just began to pray. [00:25:51]
We went down to the capital and we actually went to the hospital. And here we don't go to a hospital by appointment. You just go and get in a line and you literally just stay until the doctor sees you. And if he can't see you that day, you just go the next day. And that's how all the hospitals work here. We don't have enough hospitals for the number of people we have.
So we were just planning on taking our daughter and going and sitting in line at this heart hospital in the capital. That night we were staying at a missionary guest house, and a couple came in. We'd met them years and years before. I mean, just knew them by sight. Began to talk to the lady, ends up that she is a doctor in the far north in a little clinic up in the northern part of Ghana as an outreach. And she said, "Well, do you have this paper and this paper and this paper and this paper?" And we said, "No, we didn't know we needed them." And she said, "Well, you're never going to get to see anybody without these papers."
And we said, "Well, how are we going to get these papers?" And she said, "Well, the good thing is I actually know the head cardiologist." [00:26:53] She's like, "Let me write these papers for you." She just began writing out these papers and printing them off on her computer. And she had her stamps there and everything.
So the next day my husband was able to go with our daughter, and they said, "No, she definitely needs a surgery and she needs it right away." So we started planning what that would look like. We'd have to figure out what was going on here in our city with the church plant that we were leading at the time and where were we going to stay in the capital city?"
And we saw, Laura, the Lord opened door after door after door after door. And when the head cardiologist found out about the situation, he said, "I'm going to do this surgery for this little girl." It was just a miracle piled on top of a miracle. So nine years ago in May, we took our little two-and-a-half-year-old down to this hospital and we just had to hand over to the Lord and say, "Lord, you're going to have to do a miracle." And He did.
She had that heart surgery and she has come through it and she is strong and she is healthy. [00:27:58] The Lord provided the tests we needed. He provided the pediatric cardiologist. She'd just been back in the country one month. She'd moved from UK. And just how the Lord took care of every single thing. It could only be God.
So she's our miracle. And every time that I start to think, "Lord, we need this. We need this taken care of. We need this provision" He just reminds me, "I healed your daughter. I healed your daughter in a third-world country where people said it couldn't be done, and I gave you everything that you needed."
One more miracle that I love to share is our library here. To get things to Ghana is very expensive because usually we just have to put it in suitcases and bring it. And if you think about how much it costs to just carry a suitcase on a plane in America, multiply that times coming overseas.
There was a point where we were really growing and understanding of our Charlotte Mason education. [00:29:00] And we had books, but there were a lot of specific books that I had on these lists. And I was like, "Lord, how do I get these books here? I want to provide my children with this education that I believe that you've laid on our hearts. But we need books. And we would love to also be able to share books with the people here."
Ghana is... one of their national languages is English. So the people who go to school and learn to read will read English. So we felt like it was a way that we could help people here. We got a phone call from a missionary family that we knew a little bit. They were in one city and it hadn't worked real well for them and they moved to another city. And they were really discouraged.
We were going down just to try to encourage them. And we got into their house, I mean, they had bookshelves everywhere. Beautiful, full of beautiful books. And I was like, "Lord, they have all these books. Lord, how are you going to help us get books that we need?"
Well, when we were spending that couple of days with them, we were talking with them and things were not going well. [00:30:02] They were pretty sure they were leaving the field. We spent a lot of time just trying to encourage them to seek the Lord's will about it. Because leaving the field is a big decision.
And when we were there, the wife looked at me and she said, "Look," she said, "we are definitely going to be leaving the field." She's like, "But would you like our books?" I just started bawling. I didn't even know what to do with that. And I said, "Some of your books?" She's like, "No, look, we shipped in all these books." She's like, "I can get books in the States at used bookstores. Do you want the books?" And I'm like, "Well, we can't take them all." She's like, "Whatever you can take, you are free to take." And I mean, I think we maybe paid $100 for everything. They built our library for us.
And so many of the book titles that I have been praying about that have been on a list that someday, little by little, we might be able to get here, the Lord just dropped them in our lap. And since then, He's provided other ways for us to get books here and build this library. [00:31:00] But again, the Lord said, look, I can do at any moment what you need, as long as it's according to my will.
And we've seen that over and over in people's lives. We've seen God's provision. We've seen God care for us in ways that are just beyond the realm of what we could do as human beings. I'm just so grateful that He's allowed us to see those things, to see Him made strong on our behalf.
Laura Dugger: Wow, Patty, that is incredible. You're just reminding me of verses that I read this morning in my quiet time. So I'm going to share a couple of these. First, in Hebrews 4:16, I was reading in the Amplified version, and it says, "Therefore let us [with privilege] approach the throne of grace [that is, the throne of God's gracious favor] with confidence and without fear, so that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find [His amazing] grace to help in time of need..." [00:32:06] And this closing is what especially reminds me of your books. So that part "...grace to help in time of need [an appropriate blessing, coming just at the right moment]."
Patty Sommer: Yes, over and over and over again.
Laura Dugger: Have you checked out our library of articles available at thesavvysauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy and marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.
Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level. We hope you check out all the available reads at thesavvysauce.com under the Articles tab. [00:33:09]
I love that you're sharing this story because it lives out Psalms 77:11-12, again, in Amplified. It says, "I will solemnly remember the deeds of the Lord. Yes, I will wholeheartedly remember your wonders of old. I will meditate on all your works and thoughtfully consider all your great and wondrous deeds."
Patty Sommer: Often we're afraid to put our faith and trust in God because we really don't believe that He is capable, that He is, He is.
Laura Dugger: And I love that he did for you what you could not do for yourself in both of those examples, big and small.
Patty Sommer: Yes.
Laura Dugger: And then even to start to tie it together, even going back to your Charlotte Mason education, I'm so curious, what are a few of those specific titles that your family now gets to treasure?
Patty Sommer: One of them, it just sounds funny, Johnny Tremaine. It's a story from the Revolutionary War. I had seen it over and over. It was one I'd never read, even though it was quite a bookworm growing up. [00:34:12] And I wanted a copy of that so bad. And she had not one, but two.
Laura Dugger: He provides in abundance, doesn't He?
Patty Sommer: He does. He does. I also was able to get, this is just a total side note, little things, how he just provides us exceedingly abundantly above what we ask or think. I was really praying about cast iron cookware. And of course, cast iron is so heavy. To put that in a suitcase, there's no way that we could justify a 50-pound suitcase with two pots in it, right? So she actually said, "Hey, by the way, I've got five cast iron cook pots. Would you like them?" And on top of my books, I got my cast ironware.
Laura Dugger: My goodness. Well, it sounds like you've been, what the Old Testament talks about, blessed to be a blessing. Will you share where the library is at these days and how it's benefited others as well?
Patty Sommer: At this point, our library is a mobile library. [00:35:15] We have tried in various forms to try to set it up in a place. One thing that's really hard here is our buildings are not sealed. And so trying to keep books preserved in unsealed houses and buildings is really tricky. It's also very high humidity here. So you can imagine what that does to books.
So we had thought we had something set up at the place where our church is renting and that fell through. And then we thought we were going to build another little room onto it. And that fell through.
And so when we actually came back from our last furlough, I was just like, "Lord, you've given us this." At this point, you know, as people come, they ask for books, I can take them a book. But what can this look like practically right now?
So I actually was thinking about the old mobile librarians. I actually have my book bag. So whenever we have a service at this point, I have this big bag and I've got a patch full of books of all different kinds and all different reading levels for the people that read well and are interested. [00:36:16] And I take my book bag and I have the kids, they just line right up and we just go right through and we trade out old books and get new books.
At this point, I have a very small mobile library. It's in our home right now. We're just taking it little by little with what the Lord's provided. But it's exciting to see just what the Lord is going to do with it.
Laura Dugger: That is beautiful. It sounds like you're being very faithful in the small things. I can't wait to see what this blossoms into. I'd also like to know, what are some things that we may not know that are oftentimes true of many missionary families?
Patty Sommer: That's a tricky question because I would hate to claim something that all the other missionaries disagree with. I think one thing that goes along kind of with your question about parenting, I've realized that church planting, especially, and parenting are very, very similar. It's about the day-to-day, but it's also about the end game. [00:37:17]
When I was first expecting my very first, my husband and I were actually on a missions trip with our home church right before we were getting ready to come to the field. And we were helping. We were doing some backyard Bible clubs and things like that.
We were in northern Ontario, Canada, and the lady who was having us help at her home found that I was expecting and she said, "You don't really know me, but can I just give you a little bit of advice?" And I said, "Sure, please do." And she said, "Remember that you're not raising a child. You're raising an adult. You're raising a responsible citizen. You're raising someone who should be able to go on and keep the two great commandments." And that really stuck with me.
As we are transitioning as a family right now, our oldest is back in the state. She just finished her first year at college. We are also in the point of this church plant that we are transitioning ourselves out. The thing that has struck me over and over again is that our calling is never to set ourselves up. [00:38:24] Our calling is always to prepare our children and our churches and the people that we disciple to go on and grow and walk with the Lord themselves.
So I think as a missionary, at times, it's easy to forget that. Okay, this is going really well, this looks really good on paper, but my goal is not for it to look good on paper. My goal is for a church where the leadership can teach and they are growing in grace and that they are discipling those behind them and that they're passionate about preaching the gospel. And that the end game is what we must always keep in mind.
I'm not here as a missionary so that I can set myself up and have my little kingdom. Just like as a parent, I'm not here to set myself up as the ruler of my child. I'm, by God's grace, raising them to go out and do what God has called them to do. And so as missionaries, that's something that I think we always need to keep in mind. [00:39:26]
And it's something that can be prayed for for missionaries as they go through the hard things, as they go through the hardships, as they go through the difficulties to remember: what is our goal as missionaries? Our goal is to be establishing churches or our goal is to be building up believers. Our goal is to be training those under us. Whatever field, whatever area of missions God has called us to, it's not about us. It's about how God will be glorified in the future in these people and in their lives and in what has been done in that place for His honor and glory.
Laura Dugger: Well, it's also always fun to hear a day in the life of various people. So what does a typical day look like in your world?
Patty Sommer: One of the things we had to learn right away is that when you live in a place that isn't run by the clock, you either run yourself or you will be run. That has changed a bit in the 20 years that we've been here. But really, Ghana is a much slower place than what we came from in America. [00:40:29]
America is very much by the clock. The idea of being by the clock is still fairly new here. So we learned pretty quickly that if we just kind of went with the flow of things, we would not get a lot accomplished. So we have had to learn actually to be pretty set in what we do.
So a typical day here, I am very, very strict about school time unless there's an emergency. I wasn't at first. And I learned that to my detriment. So Monday through Friday, we're in the classroom at nine o'clock and we are done at one o'clock, which is the joy of a Charlotte Mason education. My children do have things they do in the afternoon. But as far as the actual school subjects, we're done at one o'clock.
Then literally we have each day kind of planned, what happens each day afterwards. And so we have some nights that are for ministering to other people. We have some nights we spend as a family. We have a midweek prayer service. [00:41:30]
Every Wednesday morning my husband and my girls go and they actually do Bible clubs at one of the government schools here, which is a great outreach in the area where our church is. On Saturdays is always family visitation. On Sundays we have church.
And then we also have things very set monthly. I only go grocery shopping once a month because that is a huge all-day endeavor. We go into the city. We don't have like one place where I can go and get everything. So we go from this market to that market, to this place, to the shopping center, to this building, to that building, to the butcher and we get everything for a month besides like, of course, the fresh stuff. But all of the meat for the month, anything that has to be processed.
OK, so if I want tomatoes for tomato sauce or spaghetti sauce or anything like that, I have to buy the tomatoes. So I buy huge bushel baskets of tomatoes and I have to bring those home and process them. And so trying to get the food for the month is a huge thing. [00:42:30]
Then my husband goes out on Mondays while we're in school and he runs to the market and picks up the fresh things that we need for the week. So just really actually quite regimented. If the electricity is on every morning, the laundry must be done because it has to hang because we don't have dryers here. Just things that for me are very normal.
I have to cook everything from scratch. So I have to put a lot of time into cooking every meal. Every supper meal takes at least an hour and a half. So at four o'clock I start cooking supper. So really just every day, just the thing that we've been given to do for that day, which is usually for me, school and taking care of our family. And then the things we have in the evening so that we can minister to others.
Laura Dugger: Wow. In your bio, you also mentioned that you're seeking to master the art of sourdough bread.
Patty Sommer: I'm trying.
Laura Dugger: I love that because it just makes me think of slow living, but you're sounding so intentional with your time. [00:43:31] So is there anything you've learned about that combination of being intentional to tell your time where to go, but also it is a slower pace, even making everything from scratch?
Patty Sommer: Oh, boy. I think that... man, I don't even know how to put it. I used to be a very frantic list person. My husband used to call me Martha Stewart and say, "You're Martha Stewarting again, honey." I would really work myself up. And I've learned that it has to be a balance. I have to be intentional with my time, because if not, it slips away from me, and I look at the end of the day and I say, "Man, I had these things that I wanted to get done, but I didn't even get done the things I needed to get done."
So learning to make the time. And to figure out also what it is the Lord actually wants me to spend my time on that day, I think, is also an important lesson I've had to learn. And I'm not always good at it, but hopefully we're growing in that area. [00:44:32]
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's so good. Any practical tips on that if we all want to seek the Lord as well? How have you heard his voice or then led to know which things are for you to pick up and which ones you need to lay down for that day?
Patty Sommer: I am by nature a night owl, but the Lord moved me to a place where everyone's an early bird. So I have learned that it's very important for me to get in God's word and prayer before I ever leave my room in the morning. Because if not, as a mother, everybody will assail me with a need, a problem, a question, a want.
So my husband and I, years ago, we worked out... He is an early bird, so he leaves the room and he comes out to do his devotions and he runs interference for me. This wasn't possible when I had, of course, tiny babies. But now that none of my kids have to have me first thing in the morning, so I do not leave my room until I spend time with the Lord. [00:45:32]
I'm trying to seek the Lord's face and just asking, what does today look like? And having a rough idea of what I should be doing that day helps. But knowing that where there's spots that, you know, I've got this time frame in the afternoon, what's it need to look like? Just asking the Lord, please make it very evident what I need to do at that time.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. Is there anything else that we haven't discussed yet that you want to make sure we don't miss?
Patty Sommer: I would ask as a missionary that those who listen to this, if they're praying people, that they would take the time to pray for your missionaries. There are so many people who've reached out to us over the years who say, "Man, how can we pray for you?" But there are some things that it's just impossible to really share. Not because we don't try, not because people who are listening don't try, but they just... when you've never experienced some things, you've just never experienced them.
But there are things that missionaries face that are just so different than what they face in their home country. And missionaries really do need your prayer. [00:46:34] And there are times that we've gone through difficulties and we can tell there's a calmness in our spirit, there's a quietness in our hearts because we know that people are praying for us.
We don't always know what missionaries are going through and we may not know how to pray specifically, but taking the time to pray for missionaries is really, really important. And it does more than most people imagine.
Laura Dugger: That's so helpful to hear. Is there a place where we can go after this conversation to learn more about your journey or just learn more from you?
Patty Sommer: So I'm on Instagram as Mrs. John in Ghana. That's where I do most of my writing now and my picture sharing there. We are on Facebook, but I don't a ton there. I used to write in the old days when people blogged. I wrote a lot about when I was younger and a young mom over. It's also at [email protected]. So those who are curious about the early years, you're welcome to go there. But I don't write there much anymore. [00:47:41]
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will add links to that in the show notes for today's episode. Patty, you may already be familiar that we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Patty Sommer: I think as funny as this might sound, this is something that I've been learning in recent years, whether it comes to homeschooling, whether it comes to my plans for the day, whether it comes for dealing with my adult child on the phone 7,000 miles away or dealing with my 9-year-old, that prayer is one of our most underestimated gifts from the Lord.
The more I learn to spend time in prayer, the smoother my days go and the more I feel like I am learning what it means to walk in the spirit. So prayer has not been an easy habit for me to learn. And it's something I'm still learning. [00:48:40] But I would encourage you to just start. Whether it's ugly, whether it's awkward, whether you fall asleep, whether you find your mind wandering, just start seeking to pray. Before you make a decision, before you talk to someone, when someone asks you for counsel, ask the Lord for wisdom, ask Him to guide you and He will.
Laura Dugger: Patty, I wonder if it's the fruit of that habit that I just experienced you as such a calm, peaceful soul and a faithful woman. And we're so grateful for the work that you're doing every day, both in parenting and in missions work. And then to disciple us through this conversation was such a gift. So thank you for being my guest.
Patty Sommer: Thank you, Laura, for inviting me. This has been a joy.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. [00:49:41] Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:50:44]
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. [00:51:50] You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Special Patreon Re-Release: Lead with Questions in Parenting with Stacy Bellward
23 Sep· The Savvy Sauce
Special Patreon Re-Release: Lead with Questions in Parenting with Stacy Bellward
**Transcription Below**
Jeremiah 29:13 (NIV) "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
Stacy Bellward has walked thousands of parents through all of Connected Families online courses - encouraging them, asking thoughtful questions and nudging them toward new thinking. Her favorite is finding and celebrating the small wins with parents. A speaker, Stacy is real and brings stories of her own: raising 2 high schoolers, 20 year multicultural marriage, adoption, and learning in ever increasing ways to trust God with it all. Stacy is a certified leadership coach, Bible Study teacher, award winning author, Connected Families podcast host, and soccer mom.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Slumber Sleepwear invites you to experience what true rest feels like. What you wear to bed and how you feel in your pajamas is a critical part of your evening wellness routine, so sleep well, live brilliantly. Slumber Sleepwear is available online at slumbersleepwear.com.
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But in 2024, we transitioned away from Patreon when we became a non-profit called The Savvy Sauce Charities. [00:01:18] The podcast is part of this non-profit, which exists to resource loved ones to inspire growth and intimacy with God and others.
So people used to pay to support us through Patreon, but now they can just donate directly to our non-profit. We spend thousands of dollars each year to record and produce these episodes, and we do pray that they're beneficial and that God sees fit to use them to be transformational in your life.
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We have all the details on our website, thesavvysauce.com, but feel free to also reach out to our team anytime if you want to partner together. Our email address is [email protected]. [00:02:23]
My guest is the founder of Reclaimed Hope Initiative, Bettina Stevens.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Bettina.
Bettina Stevens: Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Laura Dugger: Well, let's just begin here. How did you originally come to faith in Christ?
Bettina Stevens: I grew up in the church. My father has been a pastor for as long as I can remember, and probably about 25 years even before I was born. So I've always had God in my life in some way, shape, or form.
But honestly, it wasn't really until I went to college that I really found my own relationship with God that didn't feel like it was something that I was taught growing up, or part of just an expectation of my life in my upbringing. It was just a really beautiful time for me to really connect with Him in a different way and really kind of, you know, reconstruct and deconstruct some of the things I've learned and really create that into my own faith relationship with Him. [00:03:32]
Laura Dugger: Well, when you think back to that pivotal time in college when you're making that relationship your own with Christ, how did you anticipate your life playing out at that point?
Bettina Stevens: My husband and I were high school sweethearts, so we have been together for a very long time and were together all through college. So we kind of always planned on getting married soon after college. We always said we'd have four kids, two biological, two adopted. That was always part of the plan.
Then I had always wanted to become a physical therapist. So after college, I had planned to apply to physical therapy school, get my doctorate, and then really just kind of start our life together. You know, we talked about traveling and regular time away and really just diving into being a young married couple and just growing our family. [00:04:30]
So, yeah, even in college, this was something we kind of actively talked about and played through in our lives, and we were just excited to get that started.
Laura Dugger: So you two are in college and you're dreaming about the future, but you already had mentioned that adoption was in the plan. So do you remember how old you were when God first laid the idea of adoption on your heart?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I never grew up with adoption in my life, except through the story of my birth. My parents actually had planned to adopt a child between my brother, who's older than me, and my birth. Actually, that little girl was stolen from them before they were even able to bring her home. It was a very heartbreaking story for them, but something that God really laid on their hearts of adoption and how that would play out.
And so it was just a really beautiful story of redemption for them in terms of this little girl was stolen from them on January 15th, 1985. Both of my parents really still felt like they were supposed to have another baby. [00:05:42]
I was actually born January 15th, 1987, like two years to the day, to the hour that that little girl was stolen from my parents. So that was always a part of my story, always told to me in different ways. And so, I don't know, I always feel like I had that adoption seed within me from a very young age. It was just something I was always open to and curious about.
Then as I got older, honestly, I've never really felt compelled to have biological children. It was never really something that I dreamed of or longed for. I talked to so many other women who were like, Oh, I just always wanted to be a mom or I always wanted to be pregnant. And that was just never my story.
I was actually really nervous about being a mom and I was really nervous about kind of what that would look like. It was just never something I felt compelled to do. We talked about biological kids because I felt like that's what you do. You get married and you have biological children. [00:06:44]
But adoption was always a part of my plan, really just in feeling like there's so many children in the world who need a family. And why couldn't we do that for them?
So whenever Paul and I were talking about it, even early on in our marriage, I would say for me, that seed was really planted towards the end of high school, beginning of college, where I really felt like, yes, I want to be an adoptive mother, whatever that may look like. I don't know. But that seed was really planted deep.
Then I remember being very nervous to bring it up with Paul and talk with him through that. He was totally on board when we finally had the conversation and felt very similar. So that was just really confirming for me in our marriage and in our relationship. And it was just always part of our plan after that. So, you know, we didn't ever really know what that would look like but we were both very much on the same page from the beginning.
And it really wasn't until our first mission trip to Uganda in 2014 that we both felt like God was telling us that it was time to pursue our first adoption. [00:07:46]
Laura Dugger: Okay. There are a few parts that I want to elaborate on here. So with you and Paul discussing this, you said he was on board right away. Was it something that he just was at peace with through conversation with you or was it something that he also had felt called to before you even talked about it?
Bettina Stevens: I really feel like it was something he felt called to before we even talked about it. I'm not sure that he had really put words to it until we had the conversation. But he very much has felt that same calling of just, you know, I don't feel like we have to have biological children.
I don't know, I remember our first conversation and feeling so much relief in that of just like, wow, we both really feel like we are on the same page. And really realizing how unique that is, because the majority of families that we talk to, it's really the wife who kind of is more on board in terms of adoption, and the husband kind of comes around eventually. [00:08:47] Obviously that's not everyone's story, but the majority it is.
For us to just feel like we were on the same page and ready to take that step together was very reassuring and just a clear calling from God for us, knowing that we were both already there together.
Laura Dugger: If this is too intrusive, you don't have to answer. But I'm also curious, when you say that this daughter born the same day, two years prior to your birth, when you say she was stolen from your parents, can you share that story?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. So I have two older brothers before me, and then my parents both really felt called to adopt as well. And so they had done all the paperwork, gone through the entire process, and they flew to Mexico to pick up their daughter, who they had already prayed for, like created a family around.
She was being cared for by the village doctor and his wife. [00:09:49] And at the time, the village doctor's wife really felt like she was her daughter. So my parents flew in, they met with the doctor, they saw their daughter, and then the next day, when they were supposed to come back and sign the paperwork to be able to officially make her theirs and bring her back home, the doctor's wife had fled with her.
And so they spent the next few days really just trying to find their baby and figure out what happened. And it was just so heartbreaking because unfortunately it didn't happen and they couldn't find her.
So they flew home kind of not really knowing what to do and feeling, I guess, a balance of anger and being so heartbroken at the same time. My mom said it really took her a year before she felt like she was able to even begin the journey of forgiveness for this woman and never realizing that they would find their baby again. [00:10:50] So it was just a crazy story of heartbreak for them.
During that time, my mom still really felt led to have another baby. The funny part is she had asked my dad, "I really feel led to continue growing our family," and my dad was like, no, we're good. I think we're good. We have two boys like this awful thing just happened. Why would we put ourselves through something more?"
And so my mom just said, "Can you go away for the weekend and pray? And if God tells you we're not supposed to have another baby, then I will just let that go. But if He tells you we are, then let's continue this journey of parenthood."
And so my dad went away. And he's told me so many times that he went away thinking he was just going to spend three days relaxing, you know? He said he spent about 48 hours just sleeping and hanging out and then had this really huge conviction from God and so started praying. [00:11:49] God did very much confirm that they were supposed to have another baby but He also confirmed that it would be a girl.
My dad wrote down the day I would be born, the time, my height, my weight, my gender in a journal that he felt like God really shared with him. And I was born to those exact specifications two years to the day that little baby was stolen from them. So just a really beautiful story of heartbreak and redemption on the other side for them.
Laura Dugger: Oh, my goodness, I've got tears in my eyes just thinking of that up-and-down journey for them. When we get to hear this years later and we get to see even little bits of God working all of these things together for good, it's so encouraging to see that. But yet I'm sure living in the moment when your daughter is stolen from you and you're going through the process of forgiveness, there's just so much at that time I can see where it would have been a really difficult season. [00:12:53] And I'm sure you were such a joy.
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. You know, my mom says she didn't find out if it was a boy or girl intentionally because she didn't want to be sad. And my dad didn't tell her that he had all that information until after I was born. So it was kind of this, you know, like God secret that my dad had that he just said, "We'll just wait and see." And then after the fact, so confirming for both of them.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Well, then for you specifically, has there been any scripture that God's used to provide you with comfort along the way as well?
Bettina Stevens: Oh, definitely. You know, it's funny, Paul and I say all the time that we felt very prepared for adoption going into it. We read all the books, we did all the training. And really, once we got into it, we realized how naive we were to actually understanding what it would look like. But also really just trusting God in a way that we hadn't before. [00:13:57]
I remember just waiting for the adoption was so hard because you get paired with these children and you're praying over them and you're looking at their pictures and you're just imagining what life with them will look like and never really knowing when you'll get to meet them.
So much of that is out of your control and in the control of the United States government, but also whatever country you may potentially be adopting from if you're doing an international adoption. So for me, I remember just reading the Psalms over and over and over again in the waiting and just really asking God to bring me that comfort, and that that dichotomy of lament and praise in the Psalms that David does so clearly, I just remember reading them over and over and over again during the year and a half we waited to bring our boys home for the first time.
And then so many scriptures since then, since bringing our boys home. I remember the first time I read Hagar's story and realizing it's the only time in the Bible that God is called El Roi, the God who sees. [00:15:00] And I remember being so encouraged by that of just He is seeing everything and knowing everything, even in the midst of so much despair or heartbreak or difficulty. And that is something I've held on to for a really long time.
Laura Dugger: And now this just makes me want to hear even more of your own adoption story with your children. So can you give us some more details about how long you and Paul were married before you got to bring home your first children and catch us up on growing your family to this point?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. So Paul and I were married in 2009 and we didn't bring our boys home until 2015. So leading up to that point, we really were set on just having a good five or six years just being married and getting to know each other as husband and wife and really just solidifying our relationship in a more tangible way that really felt like we were connected and kind of ready to bring children into the world and parents. [00:16:03]
We really thought we would have two biological children first, mainly just because that's what you do once you're married, and then we would adopt later. So that was something that was always kind of part of our planning and thought process.
But we had a really beautiful time in Uganda when we went on our first mission trip there. We worked at a school and just went with a small team to just kind of bring resources. And we did vacation Bible school and a bunch of other things.
And we were just totally rocked by this trip. It was just the most tangible encounter with God that both of us had ever had and just such a beautiful, confirming feeling of kind of all these things that we felt like we were desiring in terms of our family.
We both had this experience. We come home, and I just remember the first week home, we both kind of looked at each other and said, like, "I feel like we're supposed to adopt now." And we are both on the same page, 100 percent. [00:17:04] And just a really confirming feeling.
So then from there, we both really felt led to adopt in Uganda, obviously having this beautiful experience. But we had really been connected with this school since 2011. And so just really feeling like we love the people of Uganda, we love the country of Uganda. You know, we've had such beautiful times there with Jesus and we really felt led to that.
So we started the adoption process in July of 2014 and we traveled to Uganda in August of 2015. But we actually didn't bring our boys home until November of 2015. So Paul and I lived in Uganda for almost four months to complete the adoption process there before we could bring them home.
Laura Dugger: And then the Lord continued growing your family even after getting to have your two boys come home with you. Is that right?
Bettina Stevens: Correct. Yeah. So after our boys had been home about a year, Paul and I just really felt like we were supposed to continue growing our family. [00:18:05] We saw a picture of this little girl on a waiting child list from China. I just remember looking at the picture and I said to Paul, "This is our daughter. I know that this feels so soon. We just brought the boys home. We're still adjusting to being a family of four, but I really feel like she's our daughter." Paul was like, "Okay, I'm in. Let's go figure this out together."
It was just the most peaceful process from the start, because we really just asked God very boldly if she's supposed to be our daughter, let someone donate all the money for her application, and then that would happen.
Or I would say, Lord, if she's supposed to be our daughter, we're supposed to bring her home into our family, let all of these doctors that I called that I'm waiting to call me back, let them call me back. Let one call me back today before noon. [00:19:05] And then like all six called me back that morning.
It was just the whole process was that way with her of just this total and complete peace and just God really reaffirming that decision time and time again, even when the majority of our friends and family thought we were kind of crazy for pursuing another adoption.
Specifically, her file was very much special needs in terms of her cognitive abilities and what that would look like. We really didn't know the severity of her needs. So we were kind of taking a leap of faith in what her file said compared to what we felt like God was asking us to do.
Laura Dugger: But it seems so evident that God was very eager to confirm that decision and just to be gracious to you and let you know this is your daughter indeed.
Bettina Stevens: Absolutely. Yes. After bringing her home, I've never been more sure of anything. She is just such a joy and has brought so much love and peace and just healing to our family in so many ways. [00:20:08] So it's only been confirmed over and over again since we brought her home.
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Laura Dugger: And you mentioned that there were some special needs. Do you want to share anything about your children and what's unique to them?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. So with any adoption, there is a lot of trauma that comes with that. So all of these kiddos have had such a difficult upbringing, depending on how many years they've been in an institution or what experiences they've had, even pre-institution. [00:22:17] And so that was something that we felt like we had prepared for, but was much more severe when we adopted our children than what we anticipated.
Even with our boys, we had checked that we wanted no intellectual disabilities. We were not even actually approved for a special needs adoption at the time and we were told we were adopting two 4-year-old boys who were, quote-unquote, healthy. And in the adoption world, you take that as a grain of salt because you don't actually know what that all looks like or how that has played out in their lives.
But when we flew to Uganda, we realized very quickly that our oldest son had pretty significant needs. So at four, he was nonverbal and we weren't sure if it was autism or something more of a genetic disorder or what was going on. It really wasn't until we brought him home that we kind of got all that confirmed.
But he does have fairly significant autism and severe PTSD. In addition to ADHD, he has an autoimmune disorder called PANS, and he also has sensory processing disorder. [00:23:29] So quite a handful of needs that we were definitely not prepared for.
Really, we laughed because we checked all those boxes of no and that's exactly what we got in our son. And so we just felt like, "Okay, God, you're asking us to do this. We checked all those no boxes, but apparently you had different plans." So it has really been a leap of faith for us to just trust God in that process because we felt totally unequipped and unprepared.
Then our other son is more neurotypical, but still has quite a bit of sensory needs and trauma needs. He has also fairly significant ADHD. And so that plays out very differently than our son with autism. But both, you know, very high needs in general.
Then our daughter has two very rare medical syndromes. So she has Sturge-Weber syndrome and then PPV, which stands for Phakomatosis Pigmentovascularis, which is highly rare. [00:24:34] There's only 500 documented cases internationally ever.
Her diagnoses were territory that even the most specialized physicians were still really unsure of. And so we had a range of ideas after we talked to the doctor of her cognitive ability and what that would look like. And it was extreme. It was all the way to she could be fairly normal, all the way to she could have daily seizures and we may have to remove half of her brain. It was just this huge spectrum of medical needs that they were like, You're just going to have to wait and see.
And I just remember at that moment, Paul and I looking at each other and we both just said, like, "She's already our daughter. And if God has confirmed it, He will make a way." And we really just felt peace even in the midst of that diagnosis.
And then, you know, it's so funny, we always say we tried to adopt another child with special needs and it didn't happen because she got home and she is brilliantly smart and no cognitive disability at all. [00:25:43] She's speaking, talking, walking, running, jumping. She's such a joy to have in our lives.
And while she does have some medical diagnoses that we regularly have to get treated, cognitively, she's perfectly intact and no seizures to date or anything like that. So we've really been blessed by God's just fruition in her life.
Laura Dugger: Just hearing everything that maybe was shocking at first to get different diagnoses, how has this adoption journey impacted your marriage?
Bettina Stevens: Paul and I laugh because pre-adoption, we always said, "Oh, we're going to be really flexible parents, you know, the ones that let the kids nap in the car. When we go on vacation, they can sleep on the beach and just we're going to travel with them." And we laugh now because our son's needs, my son with autism, he has to have such a structured and routine day. [00:26:48] And so, you know, we laugh that it's been very opposite of what we intended our parenting to look like.
But in terms of our marriage, it's really come down to a lot less quality time, a lot more stress and a lot of sacrificing kind of our wants and desires and even friendships to parent our children well. We really just didn't expect the amount of trauma our children would come home with. And really, it has been a constant battle for Paul and I to stay connected and motivated to care for each other after all the care we give to our children in the day.
So, yeah, it's been something that we have to be incredibly intentional about in order to keep our marriage healthy.
Laura Dugger: I appreciate that real response, because how do you even find the capacity to be intentional? And then what do you and Paul do to stay connected?
Bettina Stevens: So lots of conversation. I will say Paul and I had a long-distance relationship for about four years before we were married as we navigated college. [00:27:55] And as hard as that was, I realized what a blessing it was for us to have to communicate everything we needed over the phone because we couldn't be physically present with each other.
There's so much body language that you get from just seeing somebody with your eyes, and we were not able to do that. So much communication had to happen over the phone. And that has been such a blessing for a foundation for our marriage, because now I feel like we can actually converse really well.
We do daily, weekly check-ins around our days, logistics, schedules, emotions, routines, like we're very structured in terms of setting aside time to just check in with each other. Then there's a ton of vulnerability and just willingness to share the dark moments no matter where we are.
So we never sugarcoat things with each other. We never try to just feel optimistic because we should be optimistic. We're really honest, even if it's really difficult to hear. [00:28:52] And I think that that has been just definitely a root for the foundation of our healthy marriage.
The other thing that we do is a lot of tag teaming and gap parenting is what we call it. We kind of say together we need to be 100% for our kids, but there's days where maybe I'm 25% and so I need him to be the 75% and vice versa. So we communicate that a lot of like, "Hey, I woke up at 50% today and I'm not sure I'm going to make it to 100%.
So really just being willing to pick up the slack for one another in really intentional ways. And then, oh, my gosh, so much grace for each other. We are very intentional about praying together and just spending time together with Christ.
Laura Dugger: Just hearing that level of teamwork, I'm sure it's something that many marriages have never experienced before. So it's beautiful to hear how you both can help fill in with each other and encourage each other. I'd also just love for you to educate us with some of the struggles that are specific to families raising children with special needs or trauma in their backgrounds. [00:30:01]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, so adoption is unique in the fact that I tell people all the time the foundation of adoption is loss and grief and abandonment. And those three things are ingrained in our children's cellular memory before they even come home to us. So even if you adopt a child at birth, they know if they've had a connection with their birth mom or not, or they know the trauma that has happened to their birth mom in utero. And that doesn't just go away because now that they have a family.
That was something that I'm not sure I quite understood until we had our children in front of us and just saw the amount of turmoil they were in in trying to understand who we were, understand what a family even was, and then how to really let some of their walls down to be able to trust us.
Unlike a biological child where most of the time they're feeling the love from their mom, from the dad, from siblings, from extended family, from a child who knows they're wanted from the beginning, that is very much lost in adoption. [00:31:09]
Then on top of that, a lot of these children do have special needs due to potentially harmful things that happened in utero or just a lack of development, depending on what country they're from or where they were birthed. So all of those things you don't really know until the child is in front of you. And I always say it's like a thousand-piece puzzle you only have 250 pieces to, and you're just trying to fill in the gaps as you go.
But for us in particular, with our son with PTSD, he is very terrified of a lot of things and has very specific triggers. So community access is so difficult for us. Even going to church is very difficult for us. You know, he can't attend a regular camp and we don't do playdates. Even going to a public park or something like that is very challenging in terms of him feeling safe and knowing that something is not going to hurt him. [00:32:08]
And so it's really just taken consistent love and grace and understanding and empathy and really just showing up for them over and over and over again before they even begin to let their walls down.
So many of these kids, they've been forced to be survivors. Chronologically, they're 10 potentially, but emotionally and developmentally, typically they're about half their age, so 5. But they have the street smarts of a 35-year-old because they've learned how to cope and how to make sure that their needs are met, however that needs to happen.
Once they're brought into a family, all of those behaviors are ingrained in them and it takes such a long time and really so much intentionality for them to even let you take care of them.
And so, yeah, that was something that we just never quite realized in terms of trauma and how that would play out in our home and just all the behaviors that would come from that.
You really, as a parent, you have to push past the behavior to realize that these kids are simply trying to communicate something to you. [00:33:14] For us, we've dealt with physical aggression and verbal aggression, lots and lots of really mean things said to us. Then our other son he dissociates. So they talk about fight, flight, or freeze, and we have one of each in our home, which makes me laugh. But you have to parent them drastically differently as a result because their survival instinct kicks in and what works for one doesn't work for another.
So I have one son who fights when he's angry or scared. I have another son who freezes when he's angry or scared. And then my daughter runs. She's our flight. She's nervous, scared whenever she is running away from us, from somebody as fast as possible, trying to protect herself.
And so, you know, we thought like, oh, we'll do X, Y and Z as parents and that will work for our children. And realizing very quickly that there's a very different concoction for each child that we have to utilize in order to meet the needs of their heart. So that was just something that was very unexpected for us and has taken just a lot of education on our part to figure that out. [00:34:26]
Laura Dugger: I'd love to hear you unpack that a little bit further. So could you give a few helpful examples of how you parent well for someone who does retreat to fight, flight, or freeze?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. So for my son who fights, typically when I see him escalating, we have to get to a safe place fairly quickly for us as parents, for his siblings, and for himself. A lot of adopted children who have physical aggression as part of their behaviors, they will often do self-harm as well in addition to harming others.
For us, that's we've created a very safe, what we call our safe room in our home. And so when we see him starting to escalate, we get to the safe room and I just stay present with him. I don't talk to him. I don't try to prompt him to do anything until he's calm. We use the zones of regulation for that. [00:35:24]
So I don't know how familiar your listeners are, but essentially it's colors where kids don't necessarily have to say I'm angry or I'm sad. They can just say what zone they're in. So the green zone is happy and calm, ready to learn. They feel safe. The yellow zone is silly, goofy, maybe a little anxious, or scared. The blue zone is sad or tired. You know, maybe just feeling lethargic for the day. And then the red zone is unsafe, angry, mad, yelling, hitting.
So a lot of times I will just note, you know, we've made a rule in our home that if either of us are in the yellow zone or red zone, we're not going to talk about it until we're both calm. A lot of that for my son with physical aggression is just being present with him in the room and letting himself cope as long as he's not self-harming to make sure that he stays safe and we stay safe.
And then once he's calm, then we debrief what happened and problem solve together how we could do that differently the next time. [00:36:26] You know, sometimes that's 20 minutes and sometimes it's three hours. And it just totally depends on the day and his ability to regulate that day. That's something that we have set in place very quickly and are able to kind of manage as he gets older and larger.
And then we do use the zones of regulation for all three, because I think that's incredibly helpful. Our other son who freezes, who dissociates, he kind of goes into his own world when he's feeling scared or anxious or upset. A lot of times for us, that's just sitting with him. He typically tries to retreat, like he'll hide it under his bed or in a different space.
We have created what we call break spaces in our home that are okay for him to sit in when he needs a break. That way we're not hiding. There's so much shame from these kids. And so that need to hide comes from that internal shame.
And so we've really tried to deconstruct that with him of there's no shame in feeling emotion. And we really are here with you no matter what you're feeling or thinking. [00:37:33]
We have kind of three or four break spaces in the house that he can go sit in that has all sorts of sensory things he can fidget with or read or play with or draw just to kind of get himself back to being present. And then again, we sit with him and talk through what happened and how we could do that differently or potentially what was a trigger for him in that moment. So very different in terms of the aggression versus the disassociation.
Then my daughter is a fighter. When she starts to get dysregulated or upset, again, we prompt her to a break space. But a lot of times we have to prompt her to her room.
And then we just sit in there with her so that she can't run away from the problem, that she can't just ignore what's happening, that again, we help her regulate and calm down and then we talk through what happened and figure out what we could do differently.
But it is just so different for each of them and how you can get to the root of their heart and their triggers is very different. [00:38:38] We just have to play that by ear a lot and lots of what we call practicing outside the moment. So for all of our kids, we practice these coping strategies when they're calm, when they're in the green zone, when we're all feeling good so that when they get to maybe the yellow or red zone, there's more muscle memory there for them to know what to do and how to do that better.
Laura Dugger: Bettina, your intentionality in parenting is just astonishing.
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I appreciate you had given us a few things to consider that we may not be aware of if we're not parenting a child who's had trauma in their past or has unique special needs. But then coming more to you and Paul's story, what are some of the unexpected challenges that have come from parenting?
Bettina Stevens: Honestly, I didn't quite expect the amount of loneliness and isolation that would come in parenting children from trauma and parenting children with special needs. It's just a unique balance in trying to care for your children and trying to find time to feel like yourself again. [00:40:37]
Often in the seasons that we've had pretty intense mental health crises with our children, I've often felt like their needs always trump my own needs, which isn't healthy at the time. But I feel like that's kind of what we need to do to survive.
The things that I just never expected were little to no sleep. We've had seasons where my boys haven't slept for 60 straight nights and not even a wink. So we're just up with them all day, all night managing their triggers or their emotions.
The physical aggression and verbal aggression, of course, was not something I played out in my head as a parent. And having to, you know, keep a child safe who's your baby and you care for them while also trying to protect yourself, that was something that I just never envisioned as a parent.
Then a lot of it is just that feeling hopeless in the moments of like, God, you called us here and now we're here, and what do we do with all this difficulty in front of us? [00:41:43] And really, I never questioned my faith as much as I have in the last six years since we brought our boys home of just that hopeless feeling and feeling so isolated and alone and just really craving just relationship with people and relationship with God, you know.
Then the other thing is so many friendships lost. We've realized very quickly that the mess in our home, quote-unquote, is just a lot for people to walk into. And while some people are willing to show up in very surface-level ways, the majority of people are unwilling to really come in and see what's happening in front of us.
So we have lost a lot of friendships because unfortunately we can't go to parties or we can't go to playdates or we can't have people over like we used to as much because really we have to prioritize the needs of our children and the safety of their hearts. That has come very, very slow and steady with their ability to trust us and know that we are going to keep their interests in the forefront. [00:42:44]
Then I would say the biggest thing for me is I've had so many changes to my personality, a lot from the secondary trauma and compassion fatigue that comes from being a caregiver to children from trauma and also a caregiver for children with special needs.
So compassion fatigue is that emotional and physical exhaustion that really just diminishes your ability to empathize or feel compassion for others. Often people call it the negative cost of caring that happens over time as the intensity of your need to care-give is happening without reprieve.
So I feel like from the day we met our boys, you know, we have had to really jump in head first and really empathize and understand things that we never thought we could comprehend. And that hasn't gotten easier as they've gotten older. It's just gotten more intense in different ways. [00:43:45] So that compassion fatigue.
Then the secondary trauma is something that I never quite envisioned. And that is like the sudden development of our own PTSD symptoms that happen as a result of the trauma that you walk through with a child.
For me, that's become significant sensitivity to sound. So really hard for me to be in groups of people or louder areas. Even in the day, I often wear noise-canceling headphones in the day just to kind of drown out the world a little bit.
Hypervigilance and anxiety in situations outside our home with our children. So really having to feel like I am the giver of their safety, no matter where we are and outside our home, my hypervigilance and anxiety can be even more heightened just to make sure that obviously my kids are safe, but that other people are safe as well. And so, yeah, I've become a lot more introverted. I crave quiet more than ever.
Then really just figuring out having to regulate myself very differently than I did pre-parenting. [00:44:52] And just really allowing myself to be okay with letting a lot of things go in order to feel like our family is cared for well.
Laura Dugger: Just to lean into a few of those, do you feel like you have any support in this season to help stabilize some of those isolating feelings and all that you're facing?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, little by little. The support group that I founded and the organization that I founded has just been a wonderful just breath of fresh air for me in that regard. Because unless you're parenting children like this, a lot of people just don't understand the depth of challenge and the depth of difficulty that comes in every day.
The families that we are in community with now since founding our organization has just been such a beautiful reprieve for our hearts to just feel seen in those moments and just for them to understand the nature of what it's like to have so much trauma in your home constantly, while also feeling like there's this expectation from the outside world to be a certain type of parent. [00:46:08] That dichotomy is really challenging to balance without somebody else anchoring you to the truth. Our community has just been a really beautiful balance for us in that moment.
Laura Dugger: It is amazing to think of the power of community.
Bettina Stevens: Yes, for sure.
Laura Dugger: What about... are there counseling resources available?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would say I tell parents in particular all the time that there's no right way to do this. Every person is so different and every child is so different.
For me, I never envisioned myself needing a therapist. I felt like I was very well-versed in my emotions and my ability to have coping strategies in place. And oh, my goodness, realizing so quickly that having somebody objective to anchor you, to give you truth when it's really difficult to see who's also not in the trenches with you is really valuable. [00:47:14]
And so I highly recommend counseling for obviously for marriages, for couples, but also just for parents individually to work through your own trauma, your own insecurities, your own difficulties so that you can actually be a better parent for your kids.
I think that's different for every person, but really important to find a therapist who can understand adoption and foster care, trauma, special needs, so that when you're sharing things about your children or you're sharing emotions about yourself in terms of a reaction to your child's behavior, that there's an empathy and an understanding there that doesn't come from every therapist who maybe doesn't have experience with those types of situations.
So very encouraging to find someone that way. But I think that has been a beautiful part of my story just in terms of really anchoring myself to truth weekly in the midst of feeling so much overwhelm at times.
Laura Dugger: I think that is so wise. It's always helpful to hear both sides. [00:48:16] So now will you share what have been some of the greatest gifts and rewards of parenting?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I say all the time that adoption is equal parts brokenness and beauty, and that's so true. So having so much intentionality in our parenting and having to really change the way we think about our lives.
It has just been so beautiful to see my kids begin to understand their worth, to realize that they don't need to feel shame for everything that they do or say, for them to verbalize safety in our home. And when that happens, subsequently, they're able to share their hearts.
I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hook, but the part where he kind of grabs his face and he's like, "There you are, Peter." That's how I feel with my kids all the time of just these glimpses of the tenderness of their hearts and just the beautiful pieces and gifts and talents that God placed in them in their mother's wombs. [00:49:22] You know, that those come out little by little by little as you peel away all of these layers of the onion.
So just those pieces of them where you get to see their true personality and their true selves has just been worth just every minute of heartache for us, because I always want them to just be their best selves and whatever that looks like. And just seeing them create their own relationship with Jesus has been so beautiful. So that is for sure the icing on the cake.
On my end of things, I think challenging myself to have really hard conversations around mental health, around race, around trauma and self-care has been such a great gift for me because it's something that I never really thought about. And now I'm really having to dive deep since I have two Black children and one Chinese daughter.
That is something that I have to constantly think about and put myself into and make myself feel uncomfortable so that I can make them have more safety around their identity and who they are on the outside, just as much as who they are on the inside. [00:50:29]
I say all the time that anything we do for God will more than likely never be comfortable. And that is something that I've really embraced in the parenting of my children. But just really being able to see their little hearts shine.
Laura Dugger: That is such a mature way to live. I want to go back. You had mentioned how powerful community has been. So can you think of what you would say is the most helpful thing that your community has done to support you and Paul and your family?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I would say the biggest thing that we've ever wanted that we still want to date is really just having people sit with us. I think there's something so powerful about just being physically present with somebody in some of their darkest moments and not trying to fix it or not trying to problem-solve, but really just saying, "Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. And I'm here for you." That has been the most powerful times of our lives where we've really felt seen. [00:51:31]
And obviously, in terms of seasons of crisis, people bringing food or doing some tangible things are wonderful. But really the thing that we need the most as a family is people just bearing witness to what's happening, even if it feels dark and heavy.
We've lost a lot of friends because we've had to hibernate with our kids as they heal and as we really allow them to feel safety. And so I think just people being willing to enter into that with you and really just sit with you has been the most powerful thing for our lives.
Laura Dugger: I'm more hesitant to ask the flip side, but I do think it's important for us to learn. Is there anything that's been the most harmful that your community maybe unintentionally did?
Bettina Stevens: I don't know that I realized how difficult it would be for people to want to empathize with what we were going through. And really that's what it's come down to is people having kind of the same expectations of us post-kids as they did pre-kids. [00:52:38] I think that's probably been the hardest thing.
The majority of people, you know, for them, the story was in bringing our kids home. And then once we brought our kids home, it was like, Oh, well, they're home and everything should be normal. You know, they should just be able to jump in. These kids are so blessed to have a family.
And really realizing how convoluted that was, because as soon as our kids came home, it was like we started over again. You know, that was when the real work started. And that's when we really had to change kind of everything we did in terms of our lives previously to acclimate that child to our family, but also attach to them and bond with them since we've missed four years of their lives.
I think that was probably the most hurtful thing was just people really ostracizing us often for not being able to show up to a party or or come over for dinner or just little things that I took so for granted before bringing our kids home that are just really challenging now as a family. [00:53:45]
I think a lot of that judgment and almost a little bit of condemnation came from people just being unwilling to understand our circumstances and why we couldn't do those things anymore, versus really trying to see what was happening inside the walls of our home and sitting with us in those moments. I think that has been the hardest part.
We really have lost a lot of friends in the process of this, just people who are, you know, not willing to sit in the mess. That was really hard to swallow but also, I think just really confirming for us of who are those people who are willing to see us like Jesus sees us.
Laura Dugger: Well, first, I'm so sorry just to hear the depths of the friendships being lost and people not being able to sit and be present what you feel like your soul is longing for, crying out for. I just think here you and Paul are doing what you know you were called to do and yet it came with all of this sacrifice. [00:54:50]
I'm sure you would have loved to attend those dinner parties. So it was such a selfless act. And so then to heap condemnation on top of that, that's just hard.
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, it was for sure. And something that we still work through regularly and are much more cautious of who we bring in to get to know our family, because it's heartbreaking for our kids, too, you know.
So, yeah, it's been a struggle. But also, like you said, we know that this is what we've been called to do and we know that this is what God created us for. So I think we've really had to rest in Him during those moments, for sure.
Laura Dugger: Well, if you did have to narrow it down to a few of the most powerful lessons God's taught you through your parenting journey, what would you share?
Bettina Stevens: He's always with us. Even when we feel he's the farthest away, He's right there with us. I think that was something that in the beginning was so difficult for me to see. [00:55:52] Then really realizing, like, we are the closest to the river when we're in the valley. It became more of a lament for me and just a sacred time with Him where I realized he's not surprised by my anger and He's not surprised by my heartache.
And it's okay to not have words. There's been so many nights where I've just played worship music and just wept because I felt like I couldn't utter one more word in prayer. I just felt like I'd prayed everything, there was nothing left to pray. And just realizing, like, in those moments, He is there to comfort us and be with us.
I really had to learn to trust Him day after day, even with no evidence of hope. I think those are the lessons that I hold on to, that even when I feel isolated and lonely from relationships in my community, that He is always there and He is never leaving us.
Laura Dugger: Wow, I've never heard that imagery before. And just thinking when we're on the mountaintop, we can gain perspective and we can see the river, we can see Him at work and see a little bit more of the picture. But absolutely being in the valley and being so near to him. That's powerful. [00:57:09]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah.
Laura Dugger: Bettina, what is something that you're passionate to communicate to everyone, specifically as it relates to adoption or foster care?
Bettina Stevens: I would say I have two really big points. First, to people who may know someone who's fostering or adopting or even has children with special needs. And that would just be that families need support. So much support.
You know, we as parents spend so much time investing hope, safety, healing into our children, and really, no one is doing that for the parents. So I would say the parents need just as much care as the children they're caring for. And really they just need people to bear witness to the beauty and the brokenness, as I mentioned earlier. You know, friendships and relationships are what keep families afloat.
I really believe that while not everyone is called to foster or adopt, everyone is called to support that mission. [00:58:09] I think one way to do that is to simply show up for these families and get to know them, get to know every member of the family, get to know what their needs are, what their fears are, you know, what makes them tick and really just allow each member of the family to feel cared for and supported in those times of crisis.
I would say that's one thing. Then the other side for foster adopted special needs families, I say all the time that it's okay to ask for help. It's so needed to ask for help. And it doesn't mean you're a failure.
I think for the first few years that we had our boys, I felt like a terrible mom. I felt like I was failing at everything and that even choosing something like a medicinal intervention would be me failing as a parent. And just realizing quickly that I am not meant to be their savior. I am not meant to be their healer. I'm meant to be their mom. I think that I can love them unconditionally, but their healing and their ability to find who they are is going to come from God. [00:59:16] Letting a lot of those expectations go is so important.
And then really just asking for help, constantly asking for help for the little things, for the big things. And I say that could be help from people or it could be help from doctors. Before I really felt like putting my children on medication would be me failing because I couldn't meet their needs. And really, it's just that their brains and bodies are wired differently and maybe that's exactly what they need in order to be able to access who they are.
I just really encourage families to let those expectations go of you feeling like you need to heal every part of your kids. Really let that go and really hand it over to Jesus and then really just ask for help.
Laura Dugger: I just want to spend a few more minutes really focusing on those parents who are in the trenches right now. I think your specificity is maybe going to help stir some ideas for them as well. [01:00:16] So for you, what keeps you encouraged and renewed or ready to face each day?
Bettina Stevens: For me, that's always time with Jesus. I am not a morning person. I used to sleep in till 10, 10:30 before I had kids when I could. I just really, really crave just a slow morning. But with kiddos and even my own symptoms of secondary traumatic stress, I really needed alone time to feel like I'm ready for the day.
I get up every morning at 4:15, 4:30. I spend time with Jesus. That could be prayer. That could be worship. That could be just listening to a Dwell Bible app or something where I can just listen to the word. That could be journaling.
But really, it's just a quiet, reverent time for me to feel like I can regroup, get my head on for the day, and really just kind of give all of my insecurities, my fears, my feelings of overwhelm for the day over to Jesus. [01:01:19] So that's something I do Monday through Friday every morning just to kind of get myself ready for the day.
Exercise is huge for me. I exercise six days a week religiously. And that's something that keeps me feeling like I can function and kind of, again, feel prepared for the day.
Quality time with Paul is so, so important to me. And it doesn't come very often, but we are very intentional about that time. That's something that keeps us connected and keeps me renewed and just feeling like I can be a wife just as much as I can be a mom, which I think is few and far between for those of us who have littles at home.
Then really support groups with other families who understand. So we run a support group, but we also just spend time with other families who have other adopted children or special needs children and just really have some solidarity and just communication around the struggles, but also the beauties of that. So those are all ways I keep myself encouraged and renewed. [01:02:19]
Then truthfully, I see a therapist every week and I'm on an anti-anxiety medication, which both of which I was so reluctant to do because, again, I really felt like I was failing as a human being. I think really just that stigma around mental health was something I never really discussed growing up. And now I'm such a huge advocate for because I really do feel like for me to be my best self, I really do need a little bit more assistance right now in these times of struggle.
I think that that has been something that I've been so grateful to just feel freedom to do and not be judged or feel shamed about, but just really embrace that as part of my healing journey.
Laura Dugger: Just want to encourage you that I think it's even more courageous to not only recognize that but then to follow up and do something about it. So I admire you so much. I appreciate that answer. [01:03:17]
Just thinking of that parent now, if they're feeling desperate and they just want another handle to grab on to, I think you've given some great ideas. Dwell is amazing. Obviously, time with the Lord is just necessity. Are there any other resources or practical applications that you would encourage them to try?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I think some of that comes from the point that they're feeling overwhelmed. So sometimes for me, it's really just a gauge. Like I have a zero to ten gauge. I talk about this a lot in our support groups with our families. But just where are you in that realm of overwhelm or stress or compassion fatigue and knowing kind of your early warning signs of where you are in that process so that you can ask for help or take a break?
So for me, I love to cook and I love to bake, and that's something that just fills me up. And so I know when I get to the point where I'm really having trouble meal planning for the week, like that just feels so overwhelming to me, I know that I'm really not in a great space and I'm headed towards an even worse space. [01:04:27] That's like an early warning sign for me of something I know that I need to regroup on and figure out a way to do that.
For a lot of parents, I would say, really figure out where you are in that spectrum and write down your early warning signs and then write down the things that you know help. Like for me, I take a shower, a hot shower every evening after I put my kids down, because sometimes it just helps me wash the day away.
It was actually something that my son's trauma therapist recommended to me years ago, and I was like, "Oh, that sounds awful." And now it's something I do every single night. It really helps me regroup. I really do feel like it's a reset for the evening so that I can actually be present for time with my husband or present for just other things I want to get done in the evening.
So that's something that has been hugely helpful for me to just feel like I'm kind of starting fresh once the kids are in bed and can just regroup for myself. [01:05:26]
Then, you know, a few other things that come with that are just little pieces of the day. Like for me, I love lighting candles in the evening or in the morning. That could be taking breaks in the day. I regularly set breaks in the day for the kids and for myself so that I can just come in my room and regroup for a few minutes so that I can stay recharged and refreshed.
But I think if you as a parent are feeling overwhelmed in your confidence or ability to parent your children, there's so many books and resources. You know, the Karen Purvis Institute is huge. The Connected Child, The Connected Parent, just other really beautiful resources that you can go to to figure out ways to better understand the needs of your children and really feel like you can be confident in parenting them moving forward.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for giving such practical applications. And now, will you just tell us a little bit more about your nonprofit and direct us where we can find you online? [01:06:25]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. In 2018, we launched Reclaimed Hope Initiative, and the name came just from, as I mentioned before, just walking with so many families who just kept saying, "I feel so hopeless. I feel so hopeless. I feel so hopeless." And we have been there as well and just really feeling that lack of hope in our parenting journey.
So we decided, like, how can we help people reclaim their hope? And so we launched Reclaimed Hope Initiative really as just a support group for families. We started with about six and in nine months, we had more than quadrupled in size. And families just kept bringing more families.
Since then, we've launched all sorts of programming. But essentially we walk families through IEPs, navigation for schools, specifically for trauma-competent care in schools, and how to really advocate for your child's needs. We help families navigate Medicaid waivers. So if you have a child with special needs, how to get your child on the waiver, how to fill out the paperwork. [01:07:27]
We do meal deliveries, therapeutic counseling for parents. We do a trauma camp for children called Camp Hope. So any youth with a traumatic past who can't access a regular summer camp is able to come to our camp with some trauma-competent caregivers in place and just the ability for them to feel like they can be a kid.
We also do respite care and then we train and hire caregivers to pair with families who are able to manage a range of trauma needs all the way to special needs. And it's just been something that was very unexpected. I say all the time I very selfishly started our support groups because Paul and I needed support. And it has just been a beautiful fruition of God's calling of our adoption, of our ability to parent.
Paul and I are also licensed foster parents. And so just the foster care journey and just supporting families through those periods of time, it has been so beautiful and something that I'm now doing full-time in addition to caring for my kids. [01:08:29] So I'm just so grateful that a) God planted the seed so long ago, but b) that He's really given me the capacity to care for others like I needed to be cared for in those moments of darkness.
Laura Dugger: This nonprofit just sounds absolutely amazing, and I think it's a great first place for people to go and learn a little bit more, see if it can be helpful for their journey. Could you give us the website one more time and we'll link to it in the show notes?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. It's just reclaimedhopeinitiative.org. Then you can also find us on Instagram or Facebook at Reclaimed Hope Initiative.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. You know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Bettina, what is your savvy sauce?
Bettina Stevens: I would say for me it's to never stop being intentional about your dreams. [01:09:29] I think that there is such a beauty around the gifts and talents that God gave us in our mother's womb as you were a little, as you got older. And I know for me, the weekends that I can get away either by myself or with Paul and just spend time dreaming about the gifts God has given me and how I want to utilize them or for our organization or for my family, those are the times that I feel most like myself, that I feel the most refreshed, that I feel so close to God.
I think even in really difficult seasons, it's so important to never stop dreaming. So I would say be intentional about your dreams, set aside time and really just trust that God has a beautiful story that he's writing even in the midst of hardship.
Laura Dugger: Your faithful obedience to God just radiates from you and you worship Him by the way you live your life. So thank you for letting us in on your journey today and thank you for being my guest. [01:10:31]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Laura. I appreciate it.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [01:11:33] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [01:12:33] And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [01:13:38] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
240 Stories Series: God's Rescue and Covering in Parenting with Brenda Dugger
16 Sep· The Savvy Sauce
240. Stories Series: God's Protection and Covering in Parenting with Brenda Dugger
**Transcription Below**
Psalms 34:7 (NIV) "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them."
Questions and Topics We Cover:
What was life like, growing up as an identical twin?Will you share how He miraculously protected your sons multiple times?Do you have any favorite stories that come to mind about Mark?
Brenda Dugger is a retired chief nursing executive and hospital administrator. She is married to Russ and they are the parents of three grown, married sons. They are also grandparents to 11 grandchildren.
Previous Episodes on The Savvy Sauce with Mark Dugger:
The Inside Scoop on Chick-fil-A with Mark Dugger
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Thank You to Our Sponsor: Dream Seller Travel, Megan Rokey
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Do you love to travel? If so, then let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Dream Seller Travel, a Christian-owned and operated travel agency. Check them out on Facebook or online at DreamSellerTravel.com.
Well, this is a special conversation because it is with my dear mother-in-law. Brenda Dugger is my guest today, and she's a retired chief nursing executive and hospital administrator. When I met her and came into the family, she was the vice president at St. Mary's Hospital in Athens, Georgia. But even though that hospital is close to the University of Georgia, her loyalty remains with Georgia Tech, where her husband and three sons attended school.
She is married to the love of her life, Russ, and when they became grandparents, they requested to be referred to as Papa Bear and Mama Bear. [00:01:20] So that is what our family lovingly calls them. But for today, I'm pleased to introduce you to Brenda Dugger. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Brenda.
Brenda Dugger: Thank you, Laura. It is such a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about what my experience has been in the past and also to thank you for being such a loving and sweet daughter-in-law.
Laura Dugger: You're so sweet. I love you. I have been so excited about this conversation. But will you just begin by going back to your childhood and giving us a glimpse into what your life was like growing up?
Brenda Dugger: Well, I have been very, very blessed in my life. First, to be a twin, because that's how I started out. I am an identical twin. My dad was an identical twin, so he knew something about being a twin and how to treat twins and how to handle the issues that we had. [00:02:22]
But how blessed it is to be a part of someone who you started out life with but even at 76 years old, we're still wonderful buddies. We shop together. We talk to each other almost every day. And what a blessing that is that we have our lives to share together.
Her name is Glenda, by the way. Glenda, and mine is Brenda. We answered to anything from sister to twin when we were growing up. We also dressed alike until we were 18 years old. We are both registered nurses, and we have just enjoyed almost the same things.
Many times we go to a restaurant, even today, and we'll order exactly the same thing. And it's not because we're copying each other. It's just our likes are so compatible, so alike.
But I'm so blessed to be a twin. I'm blessed to be a mother, a grandmother, a mother-in-law, and certainly a believer because God has certainly been a part of my life and will, of course, always be a part of my life. [00:03:32]
Being a twin, to me, means being never alone. It's having somebody to talk to. She and I can communicate with each other without even having to say the words. I can look at her, and she will know generally what I mean and vice versa.
A funny story, when we were about 18 years old, we were in old Walgreens, and they had support poles beams in between the aisles, and they had mirrors around them. One time I was talking away from her, and all of a sudden I realized that there were people gathered around me looking, and I was talking into the mirror to my sister. It was great.
But even going to school, we hated to be separated. They were going through a time of, oh, twins should be separated and in different rooms. And we were in first grade, and we had our desk, and I was crying, and Glenda was crying. She was in another classroom across the hall. [00:04:40]
And so even the teachers dragged our desk up to the very edge of the door and opposite each other so we could see and wave each other. Didn't work, though. No, no, we had to be in the same class, or we would just cry all day. We had been together all through elementary school, and then in high school, we had some separate classes. But then we chose to go to nursing school together and enjoyed that.
Laura Dugger: I'm also curious, because faith is such a meaningful part of your life, were you and Glenda saved at the same time? Did you surrender your life to Jesus around the same time, or was that totally separate?
Brenda Dugger: No, there again, we are twins. And so we think and have been through most of our experiences similarly. We grew up, and my mother was ill and in and out of the hospital a lot when we were growing up. [00:05:42] And Glenda and I learned very quickly that we leaned on each other, and we leaned on God.
I remember so well the ambulance came for my mother and took her away, and just she was crying and Dad was crying, and we just felt like the world was falling apart. But we hugged each other and we cried out to God to help us and to get us through it. And that was at a very early age.
We both accepted Christ and was baptized when we were 10 years old. And a lot of that had to do with my dad. He had great faith, and he loved my mother so, so dearly, and stood by her all those years of when she was emotionally and physically ill. So I'm grateful to him for my religious faith, and I'm also grateful to the Lord that He got us through all those times.
Laura Dugger: Well, are you also willing to share when she was in a nursing home toward the end of her life, is that right?
Brenda Dugger: Yes.
Laura Dugger: But your dad did something special every day. [00:06:51]
Brenda Dugger: He certainly did. Mother was in a nursing home, and the nursing home was just down the hill, literally a little small hill, and the other facility, assisted living, Dad was in... This was only in their early 70s. Mother was placed in a nursing home when she was 70 because he couldn't keep her at home anymore. But every day, Dad would go down to the nursing home and visit Mother.
And he would bring her something. It might be a cookie off of his meal tray. It might be a cookie or it might be a piece of candy that he had saved back, or it might be a flower or whatever. But he brought her a present, something to give her every day.
Laura Dugger: I love that love story. Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: I think it's so endearing. I remember first coming into the family and finding out that you were an identical twin, and like you said, even your names, Brenda and Glenda, and then your father was Elvin, and his brother was Melvin. Just so sweet. I've always been fascinated by twins. [00:10:03]
I majored in psychology, so I remember learning about these case studies, even where twins would be separated at birth and raised separately, and when you would find them as adults, their nature was so similar. And like you said, they would even order the same things or just have some uncanny similarities.
So I have prayed for as long as I can remember to have identical twin girls, and God didn't see fit to put that as our family story, but I love that I married into a family with identical twin girls. So thank you for sharing those sweet stories.
But you and Russ have now been married many years, and you have three grown sons who are all married with 11 grandchildren. And if we pause, though, that's the picture now. So if we rewind back to you being a relatively new mom of young boys, I know from the stories that you've shared that God really had a special hand of protection on them. [00:11:10] So will you share how he miraculously protected your sons several times?
Brenda Dugger: I certainly will. Having three sons and only having just the one twin sister, I really would have loved to have had little girls, you know, to dress them up and be frilly and whatever. Well, I prayed for girls, but God didn't see it that way, so I had the first boy, the second boy, and here comes the third boy.
But you know what? He was so special. The first moment I held him, he cuddled and was just so sweet and has been so special to me. Of course, I'm talking about Mark, Laura's husband, my baby. But what a special time that has been.
But, you know, having boys, I remember so well a story my grandmother told me, the mother of my dad and his twin brother. [00:12:11] She was protective over her two sons as well. And when they went into the service for World War II, they actually wanted to be pilots.
So my grandmother, though, told me years later that she intercepted the letter of acceptance for their being a pilot and didn't tell them until they had enlisted a year later in the regular Army because she didn't want her boys to be lost, both of them being pilots in the war. So I kind of understand that you want to protect your sons.
My protective nature, I think, is because of the twin issue, Glenda was kind of the more adventurous type, and I was more of the protector. Even today, I protect her, not as a helicopter sister or a hoverer or whatever, but I just want to make sure, being the oldest twin by 15 minutes, of just wanting to make sure she's okay. [00:13:16]
But going back to the stories about the boys, my first two were 21 months apart. It was summertime, and we went to the gas station, and I was filling up the car, and my oldest, Greg, was 2 years old, he was in the car seat, and my youngest was 2 months old, and he was in the baby infant seat at that point. Then we could have them in the front seat.
So I filled up with gas and ran and pulled up near the office to pay. So I ran in the office to pay, and I no longer had a foot in that office but I heard a crash and turned around, and my car was suspended up on top of the gas pump. And all I could think of was the car was going to explode, the car was going to explode.
But I ran out there, and my 2-year-old had gotten out of his car seat, crawled over the front seat, and disengaged the gear shift, put it out of park, and had guided the car over the gas pump. [00:14:28] But the boys were fine. Fortunately, it was a new station, and so they had an automatic cutoff on the gas pump. Unfortunately, it was a brand-new pump, and I paid dearly to have it replaced.
Laura Dugger: Oh my goodness.
Brenda Dugger: Another story about the boys was Jimmy, my middle son, we had just moved into a new house and had the preacher coming over for dinner that night. The boys had been playing outside, and they were playing hide-and-go-seek. Well, the older boy, Greg, 2 years older than Jimmy, he was 5 and Jimmy was 3, and he came in the house, and he said, "I can't find Jimmy. I can't find Jimmy." And so we looked everywhere. Everywhere we looked for him.
And it was hot that day. It was in May, and it was probably 90-something outside already. So we were looking for Jimmy, and finally, after it seemed like 30 minutes, I'm sure it was not that long, but Greg came up out of the basement, and he said, "Mommy, I heard the angels, and they told me that Jimmy was in the car." [00:15:42]
We went outside to the car, it was a little Toyota Corolla, and it was the kind that you could get into the trunk without having a key or without opening the car and opening the trunk. So Jimmy, at 3 years old, had climbed into the trunk and had shut the door, and it was over 100 degrees in there.
He was trying to kick himself out. We didn't hear him. He had cut his foot so badly, so badly that he had stitches. When we opened the car door, he was gray. He couldn't speak. He had already wet himself. I mean, he was as near death as we could have imagined.
Brought him in the house, bathed him off, and rushed him to the hospital. But I'm positive that the angels guided my sweet big boy to tell me where he was so that we could find him.
Laura Dugger: Goodness gracious, that brings tears to my eyes every single time. [00:16:43] It makes me think of this verse from Psalm 34:7. And it's one that we pray over our girls, especially when we're more aware of safety if we're separated for a period of time. But I feel like your story really brings this to life.
It says, "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them." And I'm so grateful he delivered Jimmy that day. And that wasn't your last run-in to the hospital, especially with Jimmy. He's had so many stitches.
Brenda Dugger: He really has. Jimmy was playing basketball for his high school team and Mark, our youngest, six years younger than Jimmy, was at another basketball game. Of course, we went to Mark's game first.
And so while we were there, I got a page on the hospital pager, and it was telling us that Jimmy had been injured, and so badly injured that he went up for a layup shot and then got caught by another player's elbow, and his head hit the floor so hard that the audience heard his head crack. [00:17:56]
So we met them at the hospital, and Jimmy could not remember who he was or what day it was or whatever. He just kept asking, "Did we win? Did we win?" He was okay after about three days. But what a terrible, terrible accident it was. Of course, for us not having been right there with him, it was quite a shock, but he survived.
Laura Dugger: Well, and I'm sure your medical background came in so helpful countless times for all of the boys. But I do remember you laughingly sharing one time, too, "Oh, they knew us at the emergency room by the first name."
Brenda Dugger: Oh, they did. They did, yes. And those follow-up questions of, Well, have you had any other injuries lately?
Laura Dugger: Mercifully, they were brought up in a very loving home, but three boys together, that can be rambunctious, I'm sure. [00:18:55]
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Well, Mark has been a guest on The Savvy Sauce before, and he co-hosts from time to time, so people are probably already a little familiar with him. [00:19:53] But I would love to hear one of your favorite stories about him as well. So do you have anything that comes to mind?
Brenda Dugger: Well, Mark, as I said, he cuddled with me the first moment that he was born. And he has been just as loving and as considerate. He's very much a pleaser. He worked with the other boys. Now, he had a lot of rough times with the boys, putting up with two older brothers, one six and one eight years older than him. But he was just always such a joy and remains a joy to our lives.
He gave us some scares along the way. One of the times was when he was about 4 months old, changed his diaper, and there was a big old hernia. And being a nurse, I covered that hernia up just like, Oh, Lord, please take it away, please take it away. But he didn't, and so we had to have surgery. [00:20:53] But it was like I had... oh, to hand that baby over to the surgeon and to the nurses there was just awful. But he survived and did well.
The other time that he really scared us was we went to Alcatraz and visited the old prison in San Francisco. We took a boat ferry out to the Alcatraz, and we took the tour, and everybody had their headphones on, listening from cell to cell and hearing the noises of the old prison where they used to eat and what the stories were within the cells and what some of the men had done. And all of a sudden, I looked around, and Mark was gone. He was gone.
Well, we had gotten engrossed in listening to the stories of Alcatraz, and he had too, and so he had wandered off. We looked all over that prison. [00:21:55] And, of course, all I could think of at that point was somebody was going to get him just having heard all those horrible stories. But we found him, and I held on to him like never before.
Laura Dugger: Yes, because I believe he was only 8 years old at that time.
Brenda Dugger: He was.
Laura Dugger: And he said he remembers that [clunk?] sound.
Brenda Dugger: Oh, absolutely. They had the sound effects of the cells closing and being cut off from everybody, and the mean men were there. It was frightening for him and frightening for us, too.
Mark not only meant and still means to us his loving nature. He shares that with other people. I recently went to a lady's dinner at our church, and a lady came up to me, and she said, "Are you Mark Dugger's mother?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "Well, I'm Miss Esby." [00:22:54]
Miss Esby was his preschool teacher of long, long ago, and she remembered how wonderful he was. And what she said about him, I updated her that he had four little girls and that he was living in Illinois and that he was happy. And her one first comment about him was, "I bet he's the best father."
Laura Dugger: She is absolutely right. He is a wonderful husband and father. I love that so much. I remember another story that one of his baseball coaches at the end of the year had said, "You know, Dugger was one of my favorite players to ever coach because he's so coachable."
Brenda Dugger: Yeah, that's right. He was.
Laura Dugger: And he was adaptable.
Brenda Dugger: So loved. So well thought of. The fact that he's mentoring now so many young people in his role at Chick-fil-A and then teaching his own daughters and now soon to teach a program at church, it's so fitting. [00:24:04]
Laura Dugger: Well, you clearly share a love for Mark. But are there any other stories that you want to share just in general of God sustaining you throughout your life?
Brenda Dugger: Oh, there were so many times that God has intervened. One of the stories that's so dear to me is that when my dad's mother and father were elderly, my grandfather was near death, but my grandmother was certainly by his bedside all the time. But she had related to me that she didn't want to have to see him take his last breath.
Well, I went to visit him in the hospital and stayed with her. I happened to be there on the day that he died, and she was by herself. We went to lunch and came back, and when we came back, there was a definite difference in his breathing, and he had gone downhill very quickly. [00:25:04]
So there were nurses scurrying around. His blood pressure was dropping. He was only breathing intermittently, and doctors were coming in and out and whatever. And I looked over in the chair, and my grandmother was asleep and so peaceful. And my grandfather, he just took his last breath, and he died so peacefully, and I was able to say to my grandmother, "Mama, he's gone."
What a gift that was to God. One, that she was not by herself, and two, that my grandfather died so peacefully, and she did not see him take his last breath, but was there.
Laura Dugger: It's just incredible because God truly delights in every detail of our lives. And what a unique longing that she had, and He was so merciful to grant that.
Brenda Dugger: Absolutely. It reminds me of my favorite verse, Psalms 103:8-10. [00:26:04] "The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always be the accuser, nor will he harbor any grudges forever. He does not treat us as we deserve for our sins, nor repay us according to what we deserve in our iniquities." How blessed we are that God doesn't hold grudges.
Laura Dugger: Amen to that. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that scripture. You are already familiar we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Brenda Dugger: Well, my savvy sauce is a good, good friend of mine who recently passed away, she had given me this example quite a while ago. But it was to accept or alienate. I learned that so well in nursing school. [00:27:06] You don't treat people according to their wealth or whether they're dirty or whether they cause their illness or whether they're pleasant or whether they're happy or whatever.
You have to accept people as they are and where they are and why they are where they are. That has helped me a lot. You can't change people. You don't challenge them. I rarely have political discussions because you're not going to change people about how they feel about their political convictions or where they are. But they're all different. We're all God's children, whether we're red, yellow, black, and white, or whatever our religion is. God loves us and loves us for what we are.
I also have used that theology in the way that I treat my adult children. You've given them all you can give them by the time they're grown. And then you just let God take over. He's got a plan. [00:28:08] It has to be their plan. And usually, their plans are so good. And even if you don't understand them, you can ask questions about them, give them suggestions, and they're always open to those. But just accept what they want to do and support them, love them, and care for them wherever they are.
Laura Dugger: We're grateful recipients of that. This time has been such a treasure to get to preserve this conversation. And I adore you. I love you so much. And I'm grateful that you're my mother-in-law. I'm so thankful for all these stories that you shared and your faithfulness to the Lord because that is leaving an eternal impact on generations yet to even come. So I love you and thank you for being my guest.
Brenda Dugger: Well, thank you, Laura, and thank you for being my daughter. Because I could not ask for a better prayer warrior. When I have something to pray for, and she does the same for me, we text each other and tell each other what we're praying for, what we're thinking about. [00:29:17]
And one of the special things that I have to tell you that she does, one of the things that was so hard for me was having Mark live so far away and then having the children that I couldn't see but once, probably two or three times a year. But Laura sends me pictures every day of the girls. Who could ask for more?
Laura Dugger: Thank you.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. [00:30:18] We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:31:22] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:32:24]
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
239 Stories Series: Experiencing the Supernatural with Jackie Coleman
9 Sep· The Savvy Sauce
239. Stories Series: Experiencing the Supernatural with Jackie Coleman
**Transcription Below**
Genesis 50:20 + 21 (NIV) "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children.” And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
Are you willing to share some of the supernatural happenings you experienced with you family and your dad near the end of his life?Will you share a few of your God stories you've experienced through your daughter, Olive's medical journey?What are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?
Jackie Coleman completed her undergraduate studies at the University of Georgia in 2005. She later earned an M.A. in Counseling from Richmont Graduate University and an M.Ed. from Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she was named an Urban Scholar. While in Boston, she worked as a bilingual Family Counselor for Youth Villages, and later launched the Transitional Living program, which is designed to assist at-risk youth aging out of state custody. While in Atlanta, she worked on marriage and family issues with Building Intimate Marriages and research and writing projects for best-selling author Shaunti Feldhahn. In 2012, as Executive Director, Jackie helped design and implement Governor Deal's REACH (Realizing Educational Achievement Can Happen) Georgia program, a mentoring and college scholarship opportunity for low-income middle school students. Eventually Jackie taught at Winters Chapel School where her children attended. Jackie is married to John and she now stays home with their four children.
Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
23 Nurturing Friendships with Jackie Coleman
99 Sabbath Rest with Sandy Feit
Total Forgiveness Sermon by R.T. Kendall
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Jackie Coleman is my returning guest today. I could tell you about all the amazing things she's done as a marriage and family therapist and a Harvard graduate, but we're actually going to focus on something more important than accolades: Her faith in God and his faithfulness over the years.
Jackie and I began our friendship in 2007 when we were both attending Richmond Graduate University. Since that time, throughout both of our multiple moves, we've remained friends. [00:01:23] And you're going to see why. When you meet a friend like Jackie, you don't let her go.
As Jackie shares her story, be prepared to pull out the tissues and to also laugh out loud. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jackie.
Jackie Coleman: Thank you so much, Laura. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Laura Dugger: Well, will you just start us off by sharing your testimony and your current life stage?
Jackie Coleman: Absolutely. So, basically, my testimony actually starts back with my parents, if you can believe that. I was born to two Jewish kids who were basically trying to figure out Christianity. So we went to church when I was very young. We dabbled with Christian holidays. I remember having a Christmas bush in the dining room, you know, which was kind of forbidden telling our Grandma Libby, don't go in there. [00:02:20]
Their faith was always so strong because they gave up everything to follow Jesus. So while it was hard at times, and I'm sure they had questions, they fully believed and dedicated their lives to learning and deepening their faith. So this really translated to us as kids.
So, you know, Wednesdays and Sundays at church were really big. We loved it. I became a Christian at five. I remember it being very real to me. I was baptized at seven. I truly loved Jesus. But it was very intellectual for me. I knew all the right answers, I did all the right things for the most part, but it hadn't really become my own.
And it really wasn't until a college experience when... you know, I was on my own. I really hadn't been going to church. I was doing kind of my own thing. I wasn't living a crazy lifestyle, but I just wasn't going to church. But my parents were coming to visit. Cue the dun-dun-dun. [00:03:22]
So I had to find a church to show them that I was living the lifestyle that they had brought me up in, but I had no idea where to go. So I just looked up the nearest Baptist church because that's where we went when I was growing up.
So I found Prince Avenue Baptist Church and brought my parents there. Prince Avenue Baptist Church that day was actually literally on fire. One of the buildings had caught on fire. And so everyone was actually congregated outside in the parking lot.
This was by the grace of God because I would have just slipped in the church, slipped out of the church with my parents, not met anyone because I knew no one. But it was through that experience, actually, that they met the college pastor.
I happened to be going through a really hard time at that point, and so they talked to that college pastor and they asked if maybe I could meet with him. That completely changed the trajectory for me.
I met with Sky. He said some things that really kind of shifted my perspective, how everything was very focused on me instead of on bigger things, on God. [00:04:29] He invited me on a mission trip. And it was through that that just God really shifted my heart and God became real. It was an intellectual thing and then it became a heart thing.
Now in my current stage, faith is it. It's all I can stand on now. It's all that's firm. Like that song, Christ is my firm foundation, I have that on repeat. I love that part of the song where it says, I still have joy in chaos, I have peace that makes no sense. So I won't be going under. I'm not held by my own strength.
Because in this season, Laura, it's... I don't know how to describe it. It's been really oppressive. It's been a very, very hard season for us. Not only hard but just brutal. We have a medically complicated sick child. There's been some really tough division between me and John. Kids have been acting out because of the stress. My body... if you can hear it, this is not my real voice. [00:05:30] I sound very low. My body has just really been wearing out.
But, you know, even in the midst of these unknowns and crazy waves, God has just shown up in big ways. And it's undoubtedly God. And so I just keep remembering that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy, but God. But God shows up. So that's where I'm at.
Laura Dugger: Goodness. Thank you, Jax, for sharing. Truly, you are living this out. Because anytime we have a phone conversation, there are heavy things that you're walking through. But even in our last text thread, you just said, "I cannot wait to share what God has been doing." So thank you for pointing us all back to Him.
Your testimony reminds me your mom was a guest on The Savvy Sauce. So I'll link to Sandy Feit's episode on the Sabbath. She shared a little bit of her testimony that's intertwined with yours. [00:06:31]
Then on your previous episode on The Savvy Sauce, which I'll also link to in the show notes, you shared that one of the hardest things you've ever walked through in your life at that point was losing your dad to cancer. I also remember you sharing that there were supernatural experiences with him near the end of his life that you and your family experienced together. So will you let us in on a few of those happenings?
Jackie Coleman: It would be such an honor. I feel like we were able to see things that I feel like we weren't supposed to see, almost, so I would feel so honored to get to share some of those. But that was such a devastating time in my life. Still can be hard. At times grief is really tricky. As those who have walked through, are walking through know that grief is not linear. You don't just cycle through and then you're done. It's really messy. So my heart goes out to those who are experiencing grief. It's really hard.
But I recently went to a marriage intensive with John and we had to walk through our growing up years and story. And I just didn't realize how much fear I had growing up around death. I just hadn't experienced a lot of death growing up. There was something so scary and creepy about it. And even though I believed in Jesus and eternity, but death itself is so vile and terrifying to me. So having this experience was a nightmare. It just felt unreal. Like, how could this be happening?
But I remember the day that we found out that something wasn't right, it was my son, my oldest son's 2-year-old birthday party. And I had a 2-year-old and a 6-month-old at the time. [00:08:22] And the surgeons had found something in a surgery on my dad. Not at the birthday party. Thank goodness. That would be a really demented birthday party.
He found something during a previous hernia surgery that didn't look right. We didn't know what it was, but they let my mom know that it wasn't good.
Now, my dad, he had a really strong faith, but he always had a lot of anxiety around cancer. He lost his mom to cancer. He had just gotten the courage to actually take the test to rule out the type of cancer that she had died from. And it had just come back negative. So it had taken so much bravery to take that test. But then this finding. And the road just kept getting more treacherous.
So I remember my dad asking me when he realized that this was something related to oncology, he asked me if I would join him and my mom at that first oncology appointment. And I still have that video when the doctor announced what it was and he said it was cancer. And he said, "Pancreatic cancer. Metastatic." [00:09:27] What nasty, nasty words. I remember losing my breath.
But my dad, he never lost hope. His reaction was always, "I'm going to fight this thing." He put his fist in the air and he said, "I'm going to fight this thing with determination."
Now, my dad was a pediatrician. He's medical. But I think, you know, at the time, he just wasn't ready to face the reality of what that diagnosis meant. And that was okay. He just wanted to hold on to hope.
But this whole process from diagnosis until death, it took about 3.5 months, three and a half months. It was so fast. During that time, he's in and out of the hospital. I'd spend nights with him trying to give my mom some reprieve, helping him, doing things that no daughter ever wants to do, you know, for your dad. But you do it because that's what you do.
And through it all, he never let go of his hope. He was always, "I'm going to fight this thing" with his fist in the air. And I was always so proud of him for holding on to hope. [00:10:27] You know, he did that until he just wasn't willing to fight that thing any longer. You know, just too much pain, too many hospital stays. Food had lost its appeal. And this was a guy who lived for his food. He would always call me like, "Do you want to get Chinese" or "do you want to go for Italian?" You know, food had just lost its luster, and that was so heartbreaking to watch.
He was suffering and he was ready. He was ready to stop those treatments and just to feel comfortable or try anyway. So that just meant hospice.
And for some reason, hospice feels like submitting somehow, but it really isn't. At the right time, it's really the right answer. We supported him and encouraged him, although we knew that fighting at this stage was, you know, futile, barring a miracle, which we're not denying that that's possible. It's always possible. But we just didn't want to take his hope. But he really was ready, ready to go to that next step. [00:11:27]
So I always describe that hospice step as brutal and beautiful. The brutal part was long. He was always a worker outer. So his heart was very strong. He was actually in hospice for a week, which, you know, being at the stage that he was, that was actually a very long time considering how much his body had deteriorated and how little life he had left in him.
It was hard to see him like that. Like, where was my strong and resonant voice, handsome, larger than life Dad? It's just hard to see someone suffer like that.
But the beautiful... this is where the supernatural comes in. We really saw things that most people don't get to see on this side of heaven. That's where I would love to share some of those experiences, if that's okay here.
Laura Dugger: I hope you do. Yes. I'm so grateful that you're even willing to let us in. [00:12:28]
Jackie Coleman: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So I mentioned that my parents are Jewish and they found a love for Jesus. The backstory to that, and I won't go into the details, that's part of my mom's testimony, which you can find on her episode of The Savvy Sauce. She has articles written in touch.
But it was through the loss of a baby, my brother, Jonathan, a long time ago. He was only 31 days old. It was devastating to them. You know, my dad being a pediatrician was at his hospital. It was just devastating. But this truly is a story of beauty from ashes. It's just amazing how God worked in their life from that devastation, from complete heartbreak, and used it to change generations. And now those generations love Jesus. But anyway.
So I was sitting with my dad and just talking to him a little bit as much as he could and listening to music and then all of a sudden his eyes got huge. I saw him trying to sit up and he pointed and he said, "Is Jonathan here?" [00:13:31]
And my dad was completely lucid. He had just been talking to me and I was super confused because my nephew is actually named Jonathan after my brother. But I shrugged it off and I was like, "No, dad, it's just me and mom here with you." And he firmly said, "No, not that Jonathan." And then he pointed to himself and he said, "My Jonathan."
So that little baby whose death left such a gaping hole, that little baby who helped lead my parents to Jesus, who had changed the course of generations, had been present, but not as a baby. Apparently, he looked like me, according to my dad in that room. And how full circle, how amazing an experience.
Throughout that time, my dad, you know, he saw beautiful things like that. It was such an amazing experience to get to witness and hear the things we can never obviously see them. But he would remark things like white robes. [00:14:31] We have some of this on tape. We will keep those videos and treasure them.
He would always kind of look over at the upper right-hand corner of the room. You can hear accounts of hospice nurses, there are books and books where there are similar accounts of this. But he would look up and say, "Wow, unbelievable," over and over and over again. And we would prod him and say, "What are you seeing, Dad? What are you seeing?" And he would just continually say, "Wow, unbelievable."
At one point he stated, "I'm in a marketplace, a Jewish marketplace." And we begged him for more. We're like, "Dad, what are you smelling? What colors are you seeing?" And he had no more to give. But I do believe that he was witnessing the new Jerusalem.
Later, my mom and I were actually able to take a really special trip to Israel and walk in those marketplaces in Jerusalem. [00:15:31] And it was such a special experience because maybe those were some of the images that my dad got to see.
But maybe the most incredible experience was right at the end. My dad, you know, entered hospice on a Saturday and it was almost a weekend. He was no longer really talking. He was barely moving, which is why one night I was super confused to see him sitting up on the edge of his bed.
I was sleeping, so when I looked at him, I was really confused because when I would be in the hospital room with him, he often would sit up if he needed to go to the bathroom and I would just help him.
So I thought I was in the hospital room with him but then I snapped to it and I remembered where we were and I jumped up to prevent him from trying to stand, because that would mean an inevitable fall or something worse. And I asked him, "What are you doing, Dad? What are you doing?" And forcefully, he said, "I want to take Jesus's hand. I want to go to Jesus. I want to go to Jesus. I want to take Jesus's hand." [00:16:32]
It took so much strength and so much convincing to try to get that man to stay down. He was so ready to take Jesus' hand and to go to Jesus. I needed to actually get the nurse's help because he was so adamant about taking Jesus' hand. Those were actually his last words.
After that, it was another three whole days. There was zero movement, no blinking, no sounds out of him. You know, his breathing changed, so we knew that the end was very close.
At that moment, I had a massive, massive panic attack, which was weird because I had literally been through everything with him every step of the way through horrific things. But there was a purpose in that, and I see it now.
But my brother took me out of the room to calm me down. And the purpose in it, I thought, was so beautiful. My mom was left alone with my dad and they got to be together, just the two of them. [00:17:35] I had felt guilty at first, like I had abandoned them. But after seeing it with new eyes, I see that that was really the design, that they were together and that was the way it was supposed to be.
Finally, when I had calmed down, my brother and I walked back to the room and my brother peeked in the room and he said, "Dad is raising his hands." And I was like, "What are you talking about? Dad hasn't moved. Dad... what? Dad had not moved, blinked, talked, done anything for those three days. What do you mean he's raising his hands?"
And sure enough, my mom had been holding his hand and he lifted his hand out of my mom's hand up, and then he raised his other hand up to meet that one and his fingers folded. And that is how he died. He literally, I believe, took Jesus's hand and went to be with Jesus in that moment. And what a gift that was.
Laura Dugger: I am speechless. That is holy and sacred and beautiful and hard, all the things you said to describe it. [00:18:44] Just incredible, Jackie.
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Laura Dugger: Well, Jackie, you've also had quite the medical journey with your daughter, Olive, and you alluded to it a little bit, but would you be willing to share a few of your God stories that you've experienced through her medical journey?
Jackie Coleman: I would love to. This has been a journey, a saga. And a journey, as you know, is the act of traveling. So we are actually in that act right now. We're nowhere near the final destination of this medical saga. I wish we had more conclusion to it.
But what I love about the story, as hard as it has been, and it is hard, is that God has been so faithful every step along the way. [00:20:52] He has provided just the right doctor for insight, appointment, person answering the phone. I mean, the stories of this type of thing are countless.
So this medical journey with our daughter started back on May 3rd. I will never forget that day. May 3rd, 2021. Olive had a massive grand mal seizure, one of the scariest things you will ever see. Panic, fear, ambulance, hospital, genetic testing, MRIs, EEGs. Complete paradigm shift. You go from having a healthy child to, wait, there's something deeply wrong here.
So God's provisions to equip us started well before this date, though. It reminds me of Joseph's story, how really the story started like years before where God was preparing the journey, preparing him years before so that he could save Israel. [00:21:51]
But for the longest time, you know, John had been encouraging me to get help, help with the kids. We have four. But my pride, Laura, I don't know why we let pride get in the way, but it stood in the way. Because why would I need help? I'm a stay-at-home mom for crying out loud. This is my job. I don't need to outsource. I'm capable.
But God knew better. Like, I finally accepted help. And five days, get this, five days before Olive's first seizure, we welcomed an au pair into our family. We didn't realize this would be one of the biggest godsends we ever received. It was an amazing provision, extra hands.
There were so many appointments and needs. And we couldn't have done the next couple of years without this amazing girl who now is family forever. She unknowingly joined our chaos and she stayed. I don't know why she stayed with us, but she did. And God bless her. She's amazing. [00:22:54]
But those provisions started even earlier than those five days before the seizure. God was laying the groundwork for the future needs and future support. And it backs up way further to when our baby, Paxton, was a baby in 2020. So it was November 2020. So it was half a year earlier before Olive had her seizure. I hope this timeline isn't confusing. But it was half a year before Olive had her seizure when God really did a huge work.
My son was actually having what the doctor feared were seizures and he was only three weeks old. So he was admitted to the hospital for a bunch of testing. And in walks the neurology team and we were smack dab in the middle of this pandemic. So we were all masked.
But the neurologist immediately looked at John and with stunned eyes said, "John Coleman?" And she pulls down her mask. I was so afraid it was going to be like this old girlfriend situation or something awkward. [00:23:58] But it happened to be, get this, his former babysitter from Columbus, Georgia, Laura. She was only a few years older than John. So it's not like a weird, you know... She was not much older than him. But she lived on his street and I think she would just help him not murder his brothers when his parents went out.
But because of the personal connection that she had to John, she took extra good care of us. And she even gave us her cell phone number if anything should come up. We really didn't need it because Paxton was discharged and it was just, you know, underdeveloped neurology and bad eyesight. So we didn't think we needed any help after that. But little did we know, right?
But this is where the amazing comes in. So fast forward back to the six months when Olive had her grand mal seizure and we had to go to the large children's hospital here in Atlanta, CHOA, to get an MRI. Once we finished that MRI, we were just headed down to the parking deck. And we were leaving in the elevator only to hear, "Jackie?"
And I looked in the elevator in this parking garage and who should it be? [00:25:09] It was John's former babysitter, Laura, in this huge hospital, in the same elevator, leaving at this weird time of day. I mean, how big is God? I just don't even know how to explain it. There's no way to explain it except for God.
So she caught up on why we were there, what we were going through and she quickly jumped into our story. Since then she has spent hours on the phone with us, explaining terms, scenarios I didn't understand. She's a Christian, she's prayed fervently for Olive and for answers. She's not even practicing neurology anymore and she's still... I text her on a daily basis.
Like I was just on the phone with her this morning, actually, after our neurology appointment, asking her a question. Such a big part of our story and such a big help.
After Olive has been on one medication for a number of months and her condition kept getting worse pretty severely, this Laura, who's the neurologist, was the one to think through the potential pitfalls and options, even though she wasn't actually our doctor on the case. [00:26:22] And after much prayer, she encouraged me to talk to our neurologist about a tried-and-true medication that just kept coming to her mind. It was the Holy Spirit for Olive.
So she helped me think about how to present the options to our neurologist and make the case for weaning Olive off of the current medication into a new medication. This was something that our specialists and our current neurologist were actually hesitant to do. But both Laura and I were uncomfortable with the constant subclinical seizures that were happening for Olive, especially at nighttime.
So the care team came on board with this idea, this change. And after ramping up onto this new medication that Laura had prayed about and said, "I really think you should try it," we got this ambulatory EEG, which is just a brain scan that's overnight." And when I opened the test results, I think it was by email a few days later, I knew that I got someone else's test. It was wrong because it was normal. I got a normal EEG. I kept reading it. [00:27:26]
I sent it to Laura and I was like, "This can't be our result. Is it?" She's like, "I don't know. That seems... maybe." Because we were told that that was not possible for Olive. There's too much technical terms, but Olive's brain was spiking at nighttime 95% of the time. It's like if a seizure is a fire in your brain, she was having sparks of a fire every second of the night. And it destroys your brain. You don't have restorative sleep. And she's having that now too, which is just devastating. But how big is God?
She had a second EEG months later with the same result: normal. It was like we got our girl back after months of hard, months of hard.
So Olive's condition is super rare. There are only 1,600 diagnosed in the entire world. It's a very small network. I know all the researchers, I feel like, all the doctors, I read all the papers. [00:28:27]
But one other amazing God story in this is that there are only two people identified with her particular mutation. She has an [excondylation?]. Again, this sounds very technical. And believe me, I know more brain science than I ever wanted to know.
But the two people are Olive and this one other person. And we happened somehow, again, through... it's God. We happened to connect with this family. And this person is a little girl. She lives in Florida. She's only one month younger than Olive. They are so similar. We were able to meet up with them when their family happened to be vacationing in Georgia.
Our families are so similar. They're strong Christians. Our families are now so connected and it's been so rich. We've spent time together. We share lots of tears. I call the mom up often with just sometimes just to vent, sometimes to ask a question. We've shared laughs. We've visited genetics labs together. [00:29:29] We share tips and ideas. It's just such a blessing. And so how gracious is God to put people in our lives and people in our paths just when we need it?
So this story is far from over. Like far. We had a really good run with that medication, but at the end of July, this past July, we noticed a huge change in Olive's demeanor and I could tell something was super off with her. So we got an EEG and it was confirmed that the activity was back, unfortunately. This is just something that can happen.
The medicine is no longer doing what it was supposed to be doing. So many tears, lots of appointments, some hospital stays, sickness, as you can hear in my voice, many difficulties. We just haven't found a good solution yet. And it's just really hard on her. It's hard on our family right now.
But God is faithful. I fully stand on that, even with these big question marks and the abnormal EEGs. [00:30:28] It's like when we had to have a person actually sitting in our room in the hospital, when we were just in the hospital a week and a half ago, keeping eyes on her to make sure that she was okay, because things were pretty dire.
And we didn't realize it at the time, but that person sitting in our room who was assigned to us, she must've heard us reading our Bible stories together or seeing our books on our bedside table. And at the end of her shift, she came over to me and said, "I just want to let you know that I'm a pastor and I've been spending my 12-hour shift in your room praying over your girl, your family, her health."
I couldn't stop the tears. I think I hugged her so hard. Maybe I hurt her. I'm not sure. But she still checks in with us. She got my number, I have hers. She checks in with us and she still prays with me. Laura, how big is God?
There are constant reminders of things that to the naked eye might feel like coincidence, but I know that there's no such thing as coincidence. [00:31:31] There are many more. There are just too many to recount. And while I wish I had a neatly tied conclusion to share right now in the story, we don't. We're just in the messy, uncomfortable middle of the story.
The past few weeks have been some of the hardest weeks I've ever experienced, but we know that God is faithful. And because of that, like, I really do have a genuine peace despite the hard.
Laura Dugger: Well, and each of us can be praying right now, Jackie. This is a reminder to pray for Olive. So what are those specific things you're praying right now for her?
Jackie Coleman: The biggest prayer is that the medication will do what it needs to do to calm her brain so that she can get restorative sleep again in those areas, because it's impacting so much for her. So really that we get her on the right track in terms of treatment. [00:32:32] That's the biggest thing right now. I feel like we have all the right people, it's just what's the right course. So I would covet prayers.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Lord Jesus, we pray for Olive and lift her up and her entire family board, and just that you would determine their steps, you would clearly lay out the course of action and the medical treatment and the exact right and best medication and your solution. We ask for a miracle. We believe in miracles. We ask for full healing and restoration. And we all pray this together, Lord lifting up this prayer to you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
Jackie Coleman: Amen. That actually reminds me, Laura, with my dad, he had four principles by which he would live. And one of them was expect a miracle. And so I'm going to hold on to that because I really... you do need to keep your eyes open. They're all around us, and God is faithful. So thank you. [00:33:32]
Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, I remember that from your dad and he had that posted written down. I'm assuming you're a documenter. So have you been documenting these stories as well to be able to look back and see God's faithfulness?
Jackie Coleman: Oh yes. Yes. I don't want to forget even one detail because the details it's amazing.
Laura Dugger: How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully you've been blessed through the content. Now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.
Well, Jackie, I just learned so much from you during every conversation. So I want to follow up with you in three areas where I especially respect you. [00:34:32] So some more questions about your faith, parenting, and intellectual stimulation. So first, what are some recent things the Lord has been teaching you?
Jackie Coleman: The biggest thing, and this hit my heart so much, is total forgiveness. This was an R. T. Kendall sermon back from 2016 that was literally just shared with me this weekend, actually by Laura, the neurologist angel friend who loves Jesus and listened to the Holy Spirit's promptings.
She sent this to me at a moment that she had no idea I needed it, no idea, but it actually was revolutionary, changed the course of something that... I needed it.
So I understand the basic concept of forgiveness and this is something, you know, we all need to do not for others. It's really for ourselves. It's to release us from chains, right? But do I practice total forgiveness? Absolutely not. I harbor anger, bitterness, resentments. [00:35:41] So this message pierced my heart, Laura.
He challenges you. It's like total forgiveness is a willingness to let someone off the hook. We have this desire, it's like a natural desire to expose people that hurt us. It's like vindication. I really struggle with justice versus mercy. I'm a justice person.
You know, in Les Mis, everyone loves Jean Valjean and I do too, but I also commiserate with Javert. I'm like, he's just trying to do his job. You know, come on people. But the challenge is that the degree to which we can let them off the hook is the degree to which God will step in. This is what R. T. Kendall says. This is not Jackie, right? These are R. T. Kendall's ideas, not mine, please. I don't want to plagiarize because this is the hardest thing for me.
And he says, it's like the hardest thing we'll ever have to do. It goes against all that's natural. We want these people to be exposed, but what are we to do? [00:36:41] We're to pray for them, not just for them to get God's wrath, right? We want, man, God, take care of them. Maybe they'll die. Right? But we want God to bless them. And how hard is that?
But when we do this, Satan can't get that foothold. He doesn't get an entry point into our lives. Right. In this sermon, which I hope maybe there's a way to link it in the show notes because this sermon was so eye-opening to me. I really struggle with forgiveness.
He touches on my absolute favorite story in the Old Testament, which is Joseph in Genesis 45. Joseph had every opportunity to get vengeance on his brothers. But like, what did he do when his brother showed up in that room? He sent everyone out, everyone other than his brothers. Right?
And why did he do that? He did that to shield them from the wrath of other people, from the shame that... for what they had done to Egypt's hero, to Joseph, because they would have been in big trouble. Those brothers would have been in big trouble if anyone had found out what they had done to Joseph, the hero. [00:37:44]
And instead of instilling fear, Joseph loved them. I encourage you to listen to this sermon if you do have a moment and maybe it won't pierce your heart, like it pierced mine. I really struggle with forgiveness. So this is such a big thing in my faith journey right now. I feel so challenged by this. And it was at such a pivotal moment in my walk-in certain relationships.
Laura Dugger: That is so helpful because I have never met anyone who says I am awesome at forgiveness. That's so easy for me to do. You are also such an incredible mom, Jackie. I admire the way that you fiercely love those four children. It's clear that you desire what's best for them. So what are some of your best practices or favorite ideas surrounding parenting right now? [00:38:44]
Jackie Coleman: Yes, I love those children fiercely. They're wearing me out right now, but yes, I love them so much.
My biggest thing that I really am trying to focus on that I think I have on repeat with them... you know, school can be hard and the pressures of peers can be hard and the world is tough. This is something I'm trying to instill in them. And also me. This was actually from a Tim Keller book, Freedom of Self Forgetfulness. I don't have any original material if you can't tell. No original material. But this is our goal. And I say this to them over and over and over, and this is really impossible to do.
Okay. Here's the punchline. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. So hard to do right. I only care what God thinks of me. I say this to them all the time. I'm like, this is impossible to actually do, but this is something we're going to strive for. [00:39:46] I don't care what other people think of me. I don't even care what I think of me. I really only care what God thinks of me. And that's the bar by which we're going to live.
Because I just genuinely want their whole orientation to be around what God wants for them. What do they know to be true? It's not this world. That stuff always disappoints. But there is one thing that won't disappoint them. So that is something that I feel like we do say on repeat.
The other thing that we drill down on in this house is kindness. Oh, kindness. It's really all the fruits of the spirit, but really kindness is kind of like... if we have to boil it down, we really want kindness to be the thing. A big part of that is what I model as a parent.
And believe me, I have to say a lot of apologies each day for missing the mark. But kindness is really... Trying to get them to see, Like how does that impact the other person and empathy and... you know? But kindness is really something that we were trying to live by in this house. [00:40:51]
So those two things I think. We're trying to keep it simple because things are so complicated right now. But those are two things that we really try to drill down on with the kids.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. Because kindness really is a driver of so many of those fruits of the spirit. And just in case other parents are listening, can you catch us up? What are the ages from John Wyatt to Paxton right now?
Jackie Coleman: Yes. I'll be so impressed if I can get this right. They keep changing. How rude. They keep growing up. John Wyatt is 10, Olive is 8, but about to be nine in just a few days, Josie is 5, and then Pax is 2. It's fun and chaotic and a party everywhere we go. Not always a happy party but-
Laura Dugger: But a party nonetheless.
Jackie Coleman: But a party nonetheless.
Laura Dugger: Well, Jax, I'm sincere, you are one of the smartest humans I know, and I'd love to learn, how do you continue to sharpen yourself intellectually? [00:41:52]
Jackie Coleman: I don't think you're going to like my answer right now, but this is the honest answer. This honestly used to give me a lot of angst and still sometimes does, but my whole life was oriented around achievement, like intellect, grades, proving myself. But you know what? I'm in a season right now where I can barely squeak out a shower.
So while I love listening to podcasts, yours included, I do have time for that, I love your podcast, I do dive into the word daily. That is a must. And I blast worship music in the car with the kids. You should see a little Paxton who's legally blind, but musically inclined. Like he loves to sing. He belts out praise music. I love going to church Bible studies on Sunday and Wednesdays.
But honestly, I don't have a ton of margin to be super intellectual these days. I know that this is a season and you know what? That's okay. Whereas in the past, I think I would beat myself up for that and feel like I'm slacking and I'm getting dumb or, you know, I'm not, you know... [00:42:59]
God has been teaching me so much. Believe me, so much. And it hasn't been through the books or the classroom, the podcast that originally, you know, I think it comes from. But these life experiences that have just about killed me have taught me so much about faith and resilience and trust and God's faithfulness. So I'll take that in the season.
I think probably in the future there will be more margin for the things that I love. And I do love to read and I do love taking classes and I love to go to events and have adult conversations, but this just isn't my season for that. I really am okay with that.
Laura Dugger: That's so real. And yet I would even like to add a few that I'm hearing even through this conversation, your conversations where you're sharpening one another with these friends and doctors that you're in communication with. And then also you're talking about reading these medical journals. I think that is sharpening. And the sermons that you're metabolizing and the documentation. [00:44:02] I think it's such a part of you, Jax, that you may not even recognize that you're doing this every day.
Jackie Coleman: Yes, true.
Laura Dugger: Well, you know, we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Jax, what is your savvy sauce?
Jackie Coleman: I love that question. I love that it comes at the end of all your podcasts. My savvy sauce in this season is to remember what the enemy meant for evil, He turns it for good. And you know what? I knew that was the song. I didn't actually remember where it came from. So I looked it up and you know where it's from. It's from Joseph. Genesis 50:20. "You intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good."
And that's such a good reminder we battle not against flesh and blood, and we need to remember that there's a much bigger battle taking place. And so it can be easy to see people or situations as our enemy, but I think we need to just keep our focus on what we truly are fighting for. And that's God's glory. Full stop. [00:45:14]
Laura Dugger: Yes and amen. But I'm going to actually read the verse following, Genesis 50:21, for you Jax. "So now do not be afraid. I will provide for you and support you and your little ones." So he comforted them, giving them encouragement and hope, and spoke with kindness to their hearts.
Jackie Coleman: Oh, that's just the best. I'm writing that one down. I'm going to put that in my car. I'm going to put that on my mirror. That's beautiful. Why did I full stop at Genesis 50:20?
Laura Dugger: Well, I had no idea what you would be sharing. And when you said that, I remember that's a full stop always. I've enjoyed that verse so much. And yet when I came across the one after it, it just pierces to you for your little ones. So I read to you through the amplified version.
Jackie Coleman: Oh, that makes me... I love that so much.[00:46:16]
Laura Dugger: This is what you have been saying the whole time: God is so good.
Jackie Coleman: God is so good, Laura.
Laura Dugger: Amen. Jackie, I've told you before, I remember the very first moment that we were introduced and I cannot express enough. I'm so grateful that we became instant friends and God has richly, richly, richly blessed me with your friendship. You are humble and hilarious and an absolute joy to spend time with and learn from. So thank you so much for being willing to be my returning guest today. I just love you so much, friend.
Jackie Coleman: Oh, I love you so much. And it's such an honor.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. [00:47:21]
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:48:26]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:49:32] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
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- Lytte senere Lytte senere
238 Stories Series: God Delights in His Children with Pastor Brad Habegger
2 Sep· The Savvy Sauce
238. Stories Series: God Delights in His Children with Pastor Brad Habegger
**Transcription Below**
1 Peter 5:7 (NIV) "Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you."
Questions or Topics We Cover:
Reflecting back, can you identify any specific habits or experiences that seemed to be catalysts for deepening your faith?
How did God show you He sees our individual needs and delights in blessing His children?
What are a few of your favorite stories that come to mind from working with children for so many years?
Brad Habegger has been attending Grace Church since he was five years old and attended the children's ministries he now oversees as the Associate Pastor of Children's Ministries. After graduating from Morton High School, he earned a degree in Christian Education from Taylor University. For the next 12 years, he served as Program Director and later Executive Director at Camp of Champions USA (COCUSA), a Christian summer day camp. In November 2014, he became Grace Church’s first Children’s Ministry Pastor. Brad and his wife, Cali, were married in September 2004 and have two daughters. In addition to being a faithful mom, Cali works a few days a week as a sign language interpreter at Illinois State. Brad likes playing basketball and tennis and following the St. Louis Cardinals and college basketball.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at Lemangm.com.
Brad Habegger is my guest today. One fun fact about Brad is that he has been attending Grace Church since he was 5 years old, and he attended the Children's Ministries he now oversees as the Associate Pastor of Children's Ministries.
We oftentimes witness so many females serving in Children's Ministries, but Brad wisely encourages the men of our church to also get involved. And it's such a gift to see what both men and women have to offer these kids. [00:01:21]
When I told Brad off-air that these kids often see him as a celebrity in the community, he kindly said it is a built-in humble accountability. Brad's going to share a few stories now of ways God delights in the lives of his children, and in turn, ways we can delight in the lives of the children among us.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Brad.
Pastor Brad Habegger: Thank you. It is an honor to be here with you.
Laura Dugger: Well, we're going to just dive right in. Will you tell us a bit about your story of coming to know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
Pastor Brad Habegger: Absolutely. It is one of my favorite stories to tell, and it centers around when I was 7 years old, and our church was doing an annual missions conference, and they had a separate program for the kids. [00:02:21] And during that time, a missionary to Africa was speaking to us kids.
She shared the gospel using the wordless book tool, and God used that to help me recognize that my sins separated me from him, and I believe that His one and only Son, Jesus, had made the way for me to be forgiven through His death and resurrection. I remember taking that all in, and after church, got home, I told my mom about it as we were getting ready for bed, and had a special moment where she helped me talk to God about it. That is when I believe I became a child of God, like John 1:12 says.
My dad was a pastor, so he wasn't home yet, and I got the opportunity to stay up later until he got home to share the exciting news with him and talk to him about it as well. [00:03:33] So probably my own personal experience as a child is what excites me so much that I get to be a part of children's ministry even now. It's something we might talk about later.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. I really appreciate. When you met with Mark and me, we were bringing in our oldest daughter, Selah, who recently chose to get baptized, and it really was special how you were able to share your testimony with her, and even encourage her that she did come to faith at a young age. You shared that with her, but also that God has really encouraged you along the way, that that was genuine.
Pastor Brad Habegger: Yeah, that is in part to my parents also doing a good job of capturing that memory with me, not that it's about one single moment only, but times that I could go back and see what was written about what I believed and confessed, and how we shared that together. [00:04:46] And God has used that many times to provide the assurance of faith.
Laura Dugger: That is really encouraging. I think even an application as you're sharing that, I'm just reminded to preserve these things for our children. I think the Bible is so clear about preserving this and passing it on to the generations, which you've done so well.
But Brad, as you do reflect back, can you identify any specific habits or experiences that seem to be catalysts for deepening your faith?
Pastor Brad Habegger: I can. I jotted down a couple of examples here. The first is back to being blessed with parents who modeled faith throughout my experiences. So being able to have conversations with them and just have them naturally bring up how the Bible applies to a certain situation I was facing or even a wrong that I had done, [00:05:57] but then also God has used many times just reminding me of how I saw my parents apply their faith to big things in their lives.
The second experience is going to summer camp as a kid. Yes, it was fun, but it also was a special time in a special setting to focus on God and make faith my own. My parents weren't there in chapel, my parents weren't there as I talked to a camp counselor. And it was in that setting that I remember realizing that this is a decision or a commitment that I need to make and is mine to pursue with the help of the people that God has put into my life. So certainly several summers of going off to camp and being challenged and encouraged. [00:07:02]
Then I've shared this experience a lot, that I would say the single most important factor in my discipleship as a teenager was being a part of a ministry at our church called Bible quizzing, where we as teenagers were studying, sometimes even memorizing portions of scripture. Yes, for competition, but it really was that experience that caused me to think about what I was studying and memorizing. And it was that experience that put those truths, promises, encouragements into my mind that even decades later are often the verses that the Spirit prompts me with in times of needing those reminders. So, parents who modeled faith, summer camp, Bible quizzing. Those jumped to mind.
Laura Dugger: And then I'm curious, so have you and Cali encouraged your daughters in the same way since those were things that specifically encouraged your faith? [00:08:13]
Pastor Brad Habegger: We hopefully have. We hopefully are modeling it as parents. I probably owe a lot of the parenting lessons or illustrations I use with my girls to what my parents did with me. They're not as excited to go off to summer camp, so we need to find other ways to give them those moments and memories.
But yes, especially Bible quizzing, and if I may share this, I don't think she would mind. My oldest daughter is old enough to do that now. She wasn't really interested or wanting to do that and we said, "There are some decisions that you get to be a part of with mom and dad, but this is one that we've already made. You're going to do this in your first year."
It was very encouraging after the first event of that, about a third of the way through for her to say that she's really glad to be a part of that ministry and a part of this program. [00:09:24] We'll continue to pray that for her and her younger sister, those years and those times in God's word will produce much fruit now and later.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. There's so much in that answer because I love... Just the reminder, it's not formulaic. So whereas summer camp was so instrumental for you, and that hasn't been a part of their story. But that's just a reminder that it doesn't mean just when we put certain things in that we'll get a specific result.
But also you're modeling great biblical parenting by some of those choices sharing and some that are already made. So that's an encouragement. But I remember you sharing one story at church and it illustrated how God sees our individual needs and delights in blessing his children. So will you share that story with us now? [00:10:25]
Pastor Brad Habegger: Yeah, I would be happy to. It is interesting that the stories that God allows us to remember so many years later, but this is one that impacted me. It was while at college, I was doing laundry before going home for a break, which probably means I had let too much accumulate to even take home.
But I put it in the washer, had transferred it to the dryer, and like so many other times, just went back to my room while it was drying. I came back for it and it was nowhere to be found. The whole load was gone. It wasn't like someone just got impatient, took it out of the dryer, and placed it over to the side. Someone had taken my whole big load of laundry.
And while frustrating, I do remember just kind of smiling and thinking, I hope they needed it more than I did. And never did. [00:11:32] Never did find what happened.
But fast forward, a week I was home on that break and I got an envelope in the mail addressed to me. So not even to my parents. Addressed specifically to me and inside was a fair amount of cash and an anonymous note that simply said, "God brought you to mind, use this for something you need." Of course, the first thing I thought about was my need to replace a whole bunch of clothes that had gone missing.
And so, like you said, in asking the question, it definitely illustrated to me how God, though omnipotent, omnipresent, He is also very caring for our individual needs and delighted in blessing me in that moment. Hopefully, I can continue to share it to encourage others or maybe even remember to listen to His promptings in my life to reach out to somebody else and maybe it's the example that they will need. [00:12:48]
Laura Dugger: I love that. Because there are so many times when we feel that nudge that it seems a little odd. That person who sent you the cash, for instance, maybe they had no idea what had happened with your laundry. But I love how their obedience not only blessed you, but you're really blessing all of us through sharing it now and pointing us back to glorifying God for it.
And now a brief message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: Stories are so impactful and you've worked with children for years. So what are a few of your favorite stories that come to mind? [00:14:51]
Pastor Brad Habegger: Well, it has been quite a few years, but I also can't help but think of the ones that happened most recently, even as recently as yesterday at Church for us. I happened to be the one up front in the service, giving the announcements and then praying. And later in the morning, I was with the children again.
One of our five-year-old little girls at church is so expressive, and she came up to me and said, "Pastor Brad, I saw you up front and I was waving at you." And then she put her hands on her hips like kids do, "But you didn't wave back." And I thought, "Oh, I didn't see you" and had a good little conversation with her.
But it just reminds me how sweet kids can be. It reminds me of how they're always watching. [00:15:52] And I hope that wherever they see me or whatever I'm doing that I can be modeling well for them.
But similarly, yesterday, we had a young boy who wasn't real excited to be in the room where he was, and was actually trying to find his way out. Let me put it that way. I had an opportunity to just get down on my knees and redirect him and hold him for a little bit.
Once we got calm and once we got to the bottom of what was bothering him, we sat on a bench and we talked for a fair amount of time about things like t-ball, swimming, favorite video games. Those are just sweet moments where I hope this young boy went away from church not thinking about how upset he was, but how he had a good connection with a pastor, with an adult at church who hopefully he understood, heard his need, but also could sit and just chat. [00:17:05] So I love those special times with kids.
Other stories that come to mind are just when we're teaching some of those incredible Bible stories and you get kids who are just like, "Hey, wait, hold up. What? What just happened?" And you get to blow their minds with the truth and the miracles and the power of scripture. It's probably one of my most favorite things in working with kids.
And then now I've been here in this role at this church long enough to have seen the first group of kids that were with me in children's ministry graduate from high school. And now seeing where God is taking them and how he is working in their lives through the ups and through the downs, but to still get to go to those graduation open houses and reminisce with them, and also just say, I'm still here cheering you on and seeing what God will do. [00:18:10] And then having that same vision for the little ones that are currently among us.
Laura Dugger: Well, and you do that so well. You are very relational with everyone at church. Even practically speaking, I've observed how you will make it a point to remember every child's name and call them by name.
But are there any other pieces of encouragement you have maybe for those adults who are listening who aren't as comfortable interacting with children? Do you want to share any tips or kind of vision cast the impact that they can have on these little ones?
Pastor Brad Habegger: Yeah. I think sometimes we overthink that it's complicated to work with children. If you have a smile and you're able to look a child in the eyes, and it's helpful if you can still get down on your knees and look at them at eye level, then you can impact a child. [00:19:20]
I love when people come down our hallway and we'll just simply acknowledge the children with their smile or with a question or with a comment. But I would say wherever you go to church, if it's appropriate and you're appropriate to be around the children, don't always just go the other way or head to your class. But make a point to maybe introduce yourself to the kid's parents and just smile and help them see that they are surrounded by a larger family of God and a body of Christ that cares about them.
So I would just say if you have a smile, you can look in their eyes, get down on their level, you can have an impact.
Laura Dugger: Well. Even over the pulpit, there are times that you will be our teaching pastor. You've shared in the past... I just remember you sharing this book that you encouraged parents to read. And you were teaching on a level that hit all of us, all age ranges, but you were teaching about an 8-year-old king. [00:20:41] Can you remember the book that you were recommending?
Pastor Brad Habegger: I do remember preaching about Josiah, the 8-year-old king, and referencing a book that was helpful to me then and one that I really enjoy going back to from time to time. It is called All the Children of the Bible. It's not a necessarily new book, but it does a great job of just framing for us and pointing out for us just how many children or how often children are referenced, used, cheered on, encouraged in scripture.
I think sometimes we might gloss over or pass over or miss just how significant All The Children Of The Bible really are. So, yeah, if it's still available to get, I would still encourage it.
Laura Dugger: Yes, I believe after you spoke, we put that on reserve at our library. [00:21:43] So that's even an option for people if they can't find it in print to check their library.
But I like how you bring up there's so much in scripture about children. Obviously, we think of Jesus making room for the children. That's our daughter Kessler's favorite verse, Mark 12:14, Let the little children come to me. But is there any scripture that's been especially encouraging in your life?
Pastor Brad Habegger: There definitely has been. I tend to be one that needs to keep things simple, so thankfully, this is a very simple verse. 1 Peter 5, 7, where it says, "Cast all your anxieties on him because he cares for you." That has been helpful to me going back to being a kid who was often nervous, often anxious, often worrisome. [00:22:45] And to have that mental picture of just like taking my baseball and throwing it, I can take these anxieties and throw them on to Jesus and He will catch them and take them because he cares for me.
Most recently, five years ago now, during a cancer journey that I had, that short, simple verse carried me through and even led to a phrase that I guess I said enough times that the staff here at church even put it on a t-shirt. But it was just, God's got this and he cares. God's got this and he cares. First Peter 5:7, cast all your anxieties on Him, He'll take them. He's got them. And He cares because He cares for you. [00:23:44]
Laura Dugger: That's so helpful at any age to have that reminder. As you bring up your cancer journey, will you catch us up to speed on that as well?
Pastor Brad Habegger: Yeah. That's another opportunity to say thank you and praise the Lord. I know that everybody's journey is different. But for me at five years, everything has checked out clean and clear. So we're moving forward with that good news and just check in every once in a while now. So very, very thankful for how God has chosen to work so far.
Laura Dugger: Yes, praise the Lord for that. We were newer to church as you were just starting to go through that, but very grateful to see so many prayers answered. You've shared a lot of encouragement with us already, but is there any final encouragement you would like to leave with us now? [00:24:49]
Pastor Brad Habegger: Probably because I'm working on a sermon for this week about joy. Thinking about this thought that shared joy increases our own joy. That one way we experience joy is bringing joy to others.
The encouragement here might look something like I recently was talking with someone who reminded me of some advice that I guess I gave them a few years ago. I didn't even remember. But she said that at a time when she was discouraged, I guess I encouraged her to pick out someone in our church to send a note of encouragement.
And she shared with me that not only has she been doing that ever since, but that ministry has grown to multiple people. [00:25:49] That even though she still has times of discouragement, she can remember and take those and turn them into how can I encourage someone else right now.
And God uses those times of preparing a note to encourage someone else to then encourage her spirit. So that just seemed like a practical thing that God has brought back to my mind, both through that conversation and through preparing to preach and teach on the fruit of the spirit of joy.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is incredible just to hear that seed that was planted, that little seed of encouragement, and how that has blossomed and touched so many people. That's incredible.
How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully, you've been blessed through the content. And now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. [00:26:53] You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.
Will you also catch us up? What are you and your family up to these days?
Pastor Brad Habegger: Yeah, well, right now we are getting ready this week to welcome a visitor from Basque Country in Spain who is coming to stay with us for a month. We had the opportunity to do that last summer and we are looking forward to doing it again.
In full confession, my wife and I are both pretty cut-and-dry introverts. And so adding a young adult and another person to our family changes things for us. But it has been so worth it, not only for us to be sharpened and challenged and encouraged and equipped. [00:27:54] But one of the reasons, to be completely honest, that we have chosen to do it is to expose our girls to those outside of our own little context here in Central Illinois.
That there's a big God who's created a big world with lots of amazing people. This experience is one that has been helpful to do that for all of us. We look forward to having this young adult with us this summer.
We have also played a lot of tennis. I have a daughter who's taken great interest in that, which is super fun for me as someone who loves that sport as well to just have special moments of going to a tennis court with my daughter and playing and talking and laughing and enjoying it together.
I have another daughter who's really into cooking, baking, which I also am thankful because I enjoy eating her baking and taking part in that with her. [00:29:00] So that's a little bit of what our summer has entailed so far.
Laura Dugger: I love it. And it sounds like you take an interest in what your children are into. Is there any other parenting advice that you'd like to share with us, even as you reflect back anything that you and Cali are especially grateful that you've done thus far?
Pastor Brad Habegger: I think my advice, both to keep myself humble and to... well, because it's needed and to model to my girls, the advice is to be willing to apologize when we as the parent are wrong. It's hard to do. But again, the number of times of needing to get down on their eye level and say, "I'm sorry, dad did not handle that as wisely or as helpfully as I could have or should have. Will you give me another opportunity to do it better?" [00:30:06]
We do not have all the answers. We are on a journey of parenting. We want to model for our girls that we need to ask for forgiveness. And that sometimes it means we say, We need to go back to God's word and see how He wants us to handle this. Just to be appropriately transparent with our girls, I think, I hope, is something that is impactful for them and something that they can model in their relationships as well.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. That's so good. Brad, you may already be familiar that we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Pastor Brad Habegger: Something that my mom often did with my sister and I and something that I still need as an adult is she would ask us toward the end of the day, what was your eye spy? [00:31:17] What was your eye spy? And what she meant by that was, where did you spy? Where did you see God at work today?
That's so meaningful because her life has not been easy. Nobody's life is easy. It's important to ask that question even on the most difficult of days. What was your eye spy? Where did you see God at work? Well, I saw Him in that. I saw Him in this. I saw Him work here. I saw Him work there.
It is a way of helping me just elevate my mind and my heart above the things that I might be tempted to dwell on and recognize that there's an opportunity to spy God at work in every day and in every situation.
Laura Dugger: I love that so much. We just may have to implement that tonight at family dinner. So thank you for that. [00:32:15]
Brad, truly, you and Cali, Molly, and Libby have just been four incredible blessings in our lives. I can't say thank you enough for all that you do, both in our community and within our church to enrich the lives of children and of families. You have such a gentle demeanor and your patience is helpful. So I just want to say thank you for being my guest today.
Pastor Brad Habegger: Again, it is my privilege, and thank you for asking.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. [00:33:16] So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? [00:34:16] Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:35:20] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Special Patreon Re-Release: Unexpected Story of Trauma, Anxiety, Adoption, and Hope with Bettina Stevens
26 Aug· The Savvy Sauce
Special Patreon Re-Release: Unexpected Story of Trauma, Anxiety, Adoption, and Hope with Bettina Stevens
**Transcription Below**
Psalms 69:29 + 30 (NIV) "But as for me, afflicted and in pain - may your salvation, God, protect me. I will praise God's name in song and glorify him with thanksgiving."
Bettina Stevens is married to her high school sweetheart, Paul, and they have been married 11 years. She is mama to three - Jordan and Sebastian, both adopted from Uganda, and Olivia adopted from China. She navigates special needs and trauma between all 3 of her kiddos, and she and Paul are also licensed foster parents. Her house is always filled with noise and the scent of something baking in the oven. Bettina has her doctorate in Physical Therapy, but has stepped away from this role to pursue caring for her children full-time and running their nonprofit, Reclaimed Hope Initiative. Reclaimed Hope was founded in 2018 and seeks to support and advocate for foster, adoptive and special needs families in their community. It was born from a place of loneliness, isolation and grief in their own journey, and exists to be a voice for families walking through trauma, crisis or hardship. Bettina couldn't do what she does without Jesus, and cherishes the quiet moments of prayer in the morning before the sound of footsteps begin. She loves to serve others through good food, scrumptious desserts and a listening ear, and seeks to sit with people through their darkest moments.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
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If this is your first time here, welcome! You may be wondering what it means to have a special Patreon release. So here's the scoop. Patreon was a platform we used to generate financial support for The Savvy Sauce, and we expressed our thanks to those paying patrons by giving them a bonus episode every month.
But in 2024, we transitioned away from Patreon when we became a non-profit called The Savvy Sauce Charities. [00:01:18] The podcast is part of this non-profit, which exists to resource loved ones to inspire growth and intimacy with God and others.
So people used to pay to support us through Patreon, but now they can just donate directly to our non-profit. We spend thousands of dollars each year to record and produce these episodes, and we do pray that they're beneficial and that God sees fit to use them to be transformational in your life.
If that is the case, if you have ever benefited from an episode of The Savvy Sauce, would you consider showing your gratitude through your financial generosity? Any amount is greatly appreciated. In fact, if every listener gave only $1 per month, it would completely offset our costs.
We have all the details on our website, thesavvysauce.com, but feel free to also reach out to our team anytime if you want to partner together. Our email address is [email protected]. [00:02:23]
My guest is the founder of Reclaimed Hope Initiative, Bettina Stevens.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Bettina.
Bettina Stevens: Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Laura Dugger: Well, let's just begin here. How did you originally come to faith in Christ?
Bettina Stevens: I grew up in the church. My father has been a pastor for as long as I can remember, and probably about 25 years even before I was born. So I've always had God in my life in some way, shape, or form.
But honestly, it wasn't really until I went to college that I really found my own relationship with God that didn't feel like it was something that I was taught growing up, or part of just an expectation of my life in my upbringing. It was just a really beautiful time for me to really connect with Him in a different way and really kind of, you know, reconstruct and deconstruct some of the things I've learned and really create that into my own faith relationship with Him. [00:03:32]
Laura Dugger: Well, when you think back to that pivotal time in college when you're making that relationship your own with Christ, how did you anticipate your life playing out at that point?
Bettina Stevens: My husband and I were high school sweethearts, so we have been together for a very long time and were together all through college. So we kind of always planned on getting married soon after college. We always said we'd have four kids, two biological, two adopted. That was always part of the plan.
Then I had always wanted to become a physical therapist. So after college, I had planned to apply to physical therapy school, get my doctorate, and then really just kind of start our life together. You know, we talked about traveling and regular time away and really just diving into being a young married couple and just growing our family. [00:04:30]
So, yeah, even in college, this was something we kind of actively talked about and played through in our lives, and we were just excited to get that started.
Laura Dugger: So you two are in college and you're dreaming about the future, but you already had mentioned that adoption was in the plan. So do you remember how old you were when God first laid the idea of adoption on your heart?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I never grew up with adoption in my life, except through the story of my birth. My parents actually had planned to adopt a child between my brother, who's older than me, and my birth. Actually, that little girl was stolen from them before they were even able to bring her home. It was a very heartbreaking story for them, but something that God really laid on their hearts of adoption and how that would play out.
And so it was just a really beautiful story of redemption for them in terms of this little girl was stolen from them on January 15th, 1985. Both of my parents really still felt like they were supposed to have another baby. [00:05:42]
I was actually born January 15th, 1987, like two years to the day, to the hour that that little girl was stolen from my parents. So that was always a part of my story, always told to me in different ways. And so, I don't know, I always feel like I had that adoption seed within me from a very young age. It was just something I was always open to and curious about.
Then as I got older, honestly, I've never really felt compelled to have biological children. It was never really something that I dreamed of or longed for. I talked to so many other women who were like, Oh, I just always wanted to be a mom or I always wanted to be pregnant. And that was just never my story.
I was actually really nervous about being a mom and I was really nervous about kind of what that would look like. It was just never something I felt compelled to do. We talked about biological kids because I felt like that's what you do. You get married and you have biological children. [00:06:44]
But adoption was always a part of my plan, really just in feeling like there's so many children in the world who need a family. And why couldn't we do that for them?
So whenever Paul and I were talking about it, even early on in our marriage, I would say for me, that seed was really planted towards the end of high school, beginning of college, where I really felt like, yes, I want to be an adoptive mother, whatever that may look like. I don't know. But that seed was really planted deep.
Then I remember being very nervous to bring it up with Paul and talk with him through that. He was totally on board when we finally had the conversation and felt very similar. So that was just really confirming for me in our marriage and in our relationship. And it was just always part of our plan after that. So, you know, we didn't ever really know what that would look like but we were both very much on the same page from the beginning.
And it really wasn't until our first mission trip to Uganda in 2014 that we both felt like God was telling us that it was time to pursue our first adoption. [00:07:46]
Laura Dugger: Okay. There are a few parts that I want to elaborate on here. So with you and Paul discussing this, you said he was on board right away. Was it something that he just was at peace with through conversation with you or was it something that he also had felt called to before you even talked about it?
Bettina Stevens: I really feel like it was something he felt called to before we even talked about it. I'm not sure that he had really put words to it until we had the conversation. But he very much has felt that same calling of just, you know, I don't feel like we have to have biological children.
I don't know, I remember our first conversation and feeling so much relief in that of just like, wow, we both really feel like we are on the same page. And really realizing how unique that is, because the majority of families that we talk to, it's really the wife who kind of is more on board in terms of adoption, and the husband kind of comes around eventually. [00:08:47] Obviously that's not everyone's story, but the majority it is.
For us to just feel like we were on the same page and ready to take that step together was very reassuring and just a clear calling from God for us, knowing that we were both already there together.
Laura Dugger: If this is too intrusive, you don't have to answer. But I'm also curious, when you say that this daughter born the same day, two years prior to your birth, when you say she was stolen from your parents, can you share that story?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. So I have two older brothers before me, and then my parents both really felt called to adopt as well. And so they had done all the paperwork, gone through the entire process, and they flew to Mexico to pick up their daughter, who they had already prayed for, like created a family around.
She was being cared for by the village doctor and his wife. [00:09:49] And at the time, the village doctor's wife really felt like she was her daughter. So my parents flew in, they met with the doctor, they saw their daughter, and then the next day, when they were supposed to come back and sign the paperwork to be able to officially make her theirs and bring her back home, the doctor's wife had fled with her.
And so they spent the next few days really just trying to find their baby and figure out what happened. And it was just so heartbreaking because unfortunately it didn't happen and they couldn't find her.
So they flew home kind of not really knowing what to do and feeling, I guess, a balance of anger and being so heartbroken at the same time. My mom said it really took her a year before she felt like she was able to even begin the journey of forgiveness for this woman and never realizing that they would find their baby again. [00:10:50] So it was just a crazy story of heartbreak for them.
During that time, my mom still really felt led to have another baby. The funny part is she had asked my dad, "I really feel led to continue growing our family," and my dad was like, no, we're good. I think we're good. We have two boys like this awful thing just happened. Why would we put ourselves through something more?"
And so my mom just said, "Can you go away for the weekend and pray? And if God tells you we're not supposed to have another baby, then I will just let that go. But if He tells you we are, then let's continue this journey of parenthood."
And so my dad went away. And he's told me so many times that he went away thinking he was just going to spend three days relaxing, you know? He said he spent about 48 hours just sleeping and hanging out and then had this really huge conviction from God and so started praying. [00:11:49] God did very much confirm that they were supposed to have another baby but He also confirmed that it would be a girl.
My dad wrote down the day I would be born, the time, my height, my weight, my gender in a journal that he felt like God really shared with him. And I was born to those exact specifications two years to the day that little baby was stolen from them. So just a really beautiful story of heartbreak and redemption on the other side for them.
Laura Dugger: Oh, my goodness, I've got tears in my eyes just thinking of that up-and-down journey for them. When we get to hear this years later and we get to see even little bits of God working all of these things together for good, it's so encouraging to see that. But yet I'm sure living in the moment when your daughter is stolen from you and you're going through the process of forgiveness, there's just so much at that time I can see where it would have been a really difficult season. [00:12:53] And I'm sure you were such a joy.
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. You know, my mom says she didn't find out if it was a boy or girl intentionally because she didn't want to be sad. And my dad didn't tell her that he had all that information until after I was born. So it was kind of this, you know, like God secret that my dad had that he just said, "We'll just wait and see." And then after the fact, so confirming for both of them.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Well, then for you specifically, has there been any scripture that God's used to provide you with comfort along the way as well?
Bettina Stevens: Oh, definitely. You know, it's funny, Paul and I say all the time that we felt very prepared for adoption going into it. We read all the books, we did all the training. And really, once we got into it, we realized how naive we were to actually understanding what it would look like. But also really just trusting God in a way that we hadn't before. [00:13:57]
I remember just waiting for the adoption was so hard because you get paired with these children and you're praying over them and you're looking at their pictures and you're just imagining what life with them will look like and never really knowing when you'll get to meet them.
So much of that is out of your control and in the control of the United States government, but also whatever country you may potentially be adopting from if you're doing an international adoption. So for me, I remember just reading the Psalms over and over and over again in the waiting and just really asking God to bring me that comfort, and that that dichotomy of lament and praise in the Psalms that David does so clearly, I just remember reading them over and over and over again during the year and a half we waited to bring our boys home for the first time.
And then so many scriptures since then, since bringing our boys home. I remember the first time I read Hagar's story and realizing it's the only time in the Bible that God is called El Roi, the God who sees. [00:15:00] And I remember being so encouraged by that of just He is seeing everything and knowing everything, even in the midst of so much despair or heartbreak or difficulty. And that is something I've held on to for a really long time.
Laura Dugger: And now this just makes me want to hear even more of your own adoption story with your children. So can you give us some more details about how long you and Paul were married before you got to bring home your first children and catch us up on growing your family to this point?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. So Paul and I were married in 2009 and we didn't bring our boys home until 2015. So leading up to that point, we really were set on just having a good five or six years just being married and getting to know each other as husband and wife and really just solidifying our relationship in a more tangible way that really felt like we were connected and kind of ready to bring children into the world and parents. [00:16:03]
We really thought we would have two biological children first, mainly just because that's what you do once you're married, and then we would adopt later. So that was something that was always kind of part of our planning and thought process.
But we had a really beautiful time in Uganda when we went on our first mission trip there. We worked at a school and just went with a small team to just kind of bring resources. And we did vacation Bible school and a bunch of other things.
And we were just totally rocked by this trip. It was just the most tangible encounter with God that both of us had ever had and just such a beautiful, confirming feeling of kind of all these things that we felt like we were desiring in terms of our family.
We both had this experience. We come home, and I just remember the first week home, we both kind of looked at each other and said, like, "I feel like we're supposed to adopt now." And we are both on the same page, 100 percent. [00:17:04] And just a really confirming feeling.
So then from there, we both really felt led to adopt in Uganda, obviously having this beautiful experience. But we had really been connected with this school since 2011. And so just really feeling like we love the people of Uganda, we love the country of Uganda. You know, we've had such beautiful times there with Jesus and we really felt led to that.
So we started the adoption process in July of 2014 and we traveled to Uganda in August of 2015. But we actually didn't bring our boys home until November of 2015. So Paul and I lived in Uganda for almost four months to complete the adoption process there before we could bring them home.
Laura Dugger: And then the Lord continued growing your family even after getting to have your two boys come home with you. Is that right?
Bettina Stevens: Correct. Yeah. So after our boys had been home about a year, Paul and I just really felt like we were supposed to continue growing our family. [00:18:05] We saw a picture of this little girl on a waiting child list from China. I just remember looking at the picture and I said to Paul, "This is our daughter. I know that this feels so soon. We just brought the boys home. We're still adjusting to being a family of four, but I really feel like she's our daughter." Paul was like, "Okay, I'm in. Let's go figure this out together."
It was just the most peaceful process from the start, because we really just asked God very boldly if she's supposed to be our daughter, let someone donate all the money for her application, and then that would happen.
Or I would say, Lord, if she's supposed to be our daughter, we're supposed to bring her home into our family, let all of these doctors that I called that I'm waiting to call me back, let them call me back. Let one call me back today before noon. [00:19:05] And then like all six called me back that morning.
It was just the whole process was that way with her of just this total and complete peace and just God really reaffirming that decision time and time again, even when the majority of our friends and family thought we were kind of crazy for pursuing another adoption.
Specifically, her file was very much special needs in terms of her cognitive abilities and what that would look like. We really didn't know the severity of her needs. So we were kind of taking a leap of faith in what her file said compared to what we felt like God was asking us to do.
Laura Dugger: But it seems so evident that God was very eager to confirm that decision and just to be gracious to you and let you know this is your daughter indeed.
Bettina Stevens: Absolutely. Yes. After bringing her home, I've never been more sure of anything. She is just such a joy and has brought so much love and peace and just healing to our family in so many ways. [00:20:08] So it's only been confirmed over and over again since we brought her home.
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Laura Dugger: And you mentioned that there were some special needs. Do you want to share anything about your children and what's unique to them?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. So with any adoption, there is a lot of trauma that comes with that. So all of these kiddos have had such a difficult upbringing, depending on how many years they've been in an institution or what experiences they've had, even pre-institution. [00:22:17] And so that was something that we felt like we had prepared for, but was much more severe when we adopted our children than what we anticipated.
Even with our boys, we had checked that we wanted no intellectual disabilities. We were not even actually approved for a special needs adoption at the time and we were told we were adopting two 4-year-old boys who were, quote-unquote, healthy. And in the adoption world, you take that as a grain of salt because you don't actually know what that all looks like or how that has played out in their lives.
But when we flew to Uganda, we realized very quickly that our oldest son had pretty significant needs. So at four, he was nonverbal and we weren't sure if it was autism or something more of a genetic disorder or what was going on. It really wasn't until we brought him home that we kind of got all that confirmed.
But he does have fairly significant autism and severe PTSD. In addition to ADHD, he has an autoimmune disorder called PANS, and he also has sensory processing disorder. [00:23:29] So quite a handful of needs that we were definitely not prepared for.
Really, we laughed because we checked all those boxes of no and that's exactly what we got in our son. And so we just felt like, "Okay, God, you're asking us to do this. We checked all those no boxes, but apparently you had different plans." So it has really been a leap of faith for us to just trust God in that process because we felt totally unequipped and unprepared.
Then our other son is more neurotypical, but still has quite a bit of sensory needs and trauma needs. He has also fairly significant ADHD. And so that plays out very differently than our son with autism. But both, you know, very high needs in general.
Then our daughter has two very rare medical syndromes. So she has Sturge-Weber syndrome and then PPV, which stands for Phakomatosis Pigmentovascularis, which is highly rare. [00:24:34] There's only 500 documented cases internationally ever.
Her diagnoses were territory that even the most specialized physicians were still really unsure of. And so we had a range of ideas after we talked to the doctor of her cognitive ability and what that would look like. And it was extreme. It was all the way to she could be fairly normal, all the way to she could have daily seizures and we may have to remove half of her brain. It was just this huge spectrum of medical needs that they were like, You're just going to have to wait and see.
And I just remember at that moment, Paul and I looking at each other and we both just said, like, "She's already our daughter. And if God has confirmed it, He will make a way." And we really just felt peace even in the midst of that diagnosis.
And then, you know, it's so funny, we always say we tried to adopt another child with special needs and it didn't happen because she got home and she is brilliantly smart and no cognitive disability at all. [00:25:43] She's speaking, talking, walking, running, jumping. She's such a joy to have in our lives.
And while she does have some medical diagnoses that we regularly have to get treated, cognitively, she's perfectly intact and no seizures to date or anything like that. So we've really been blessed by God's just fruition in her life.
Laura Dugger: Just hearing everything that maybe was shocking at first to get different diagnoses, how has this adoption journey impacted your marriage?
Bettina Stevens: Paul and I laugh because pre-adoption, we always said, "Oh, we're going to be really flexible parents, you know, the ones that let the kids nap in the car. When we go on vacation, they can sleep on the beach and just we're going to travel with them." And we laugh now because our son's needs, my son with autism, he has to have such a structured and routine day. [00:26:48] And so, you know, we laugh that it's been very opposite of what we intended our parenting to look like.
But in terms of our marriage, it's really come down to a lot less quality time, a lot more stress and a lot of sacrificing kind of our wants and desires and even friendships to parent our children well. We really just didn't expect the amount of trauma our children would come home with. And really, it has been a constant battle for Paul and I to stay connected and motivated to care for each other after all the care we give to our children in the day.
So, yeah, it's been something that we have to be incredibly intentional about in order to keep our marriage healthy.
Laura Dugger: I appreciate that real response, because how do you even find the capacity to be intentional? And then what do you and Paul do to stay connected?
Bettina Stevens: So lots of conversation. I will say Paul and I had a long-distance relationship for about four years before we were married as we navigated college. [00:27:55] And as hard as that was, I realized what a blessing it was for us to have to communicate everything we needed over the phone because we couldn't be physically present with each other.
There's so much body language that you get from just seeing somebody with your eyes, and we were not able to do that. So much communication had to happen over the phone. And that has been such a blessing for a foundation for our marriage, because now I feel like we can actually converse really well.
We do daily, weekly check-ins around our days, logistics, schedules, emotions, routines, like we're very structured in terms of setting aside time to just check in with each other. Then there's a ton of vulnerability and just willingness to share the dark moments no matter where we are.
So we never sugarcoat things with each other. We never try to just feel optimistic because we should be optimistic. We're really honest, even if it's really difficult to hear. [00:28:52] And I think that that has been just definitely a root for the foundation of our healthy marriage.
The other thing that we do is a lot of tag teaming and gap parenting is what we call it. We kind of say together we need to be 100% for our kids, but there's days where maybe I'm 25% and so I need him to be the 75% and vice versa. So we communicate that a lot of like, "Hey, I woke up at 50% today and I'm not sure I'm going to make it to 100%.
So really just being willing to pick up the slack for one another in really intentional ways. And then, oh, my gosh, so much grace for each other. We are very intentional about praying together and just spending time together with Christ.
Laura Dugger: Just hearing that level of teamwork, I'm sure it's something that many marriages have never experienced before. So it's beautiful to hear how you both can help fill in with each other and encourage each other. I'd also just love for you to educate us with some of the struggles that are specific to families raising children with special needs or trauma in their backgrounds. [00:30:01]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, so adoption is unique in the fact that I tell people all the time the foundation of adoption is loss and grief and abandonment. And those three things are ingrained in our children's cellular memory before they even come home to us. So even if you adopt a child at birth, they know if they've had a connection with their birth mom or not, or they know the trauma that has happened to their birth mom in utero. And that doesn't just go away because now that they have a family.
That was something that I'm not sure I quite understood until we had our children in front of us and just saw the amount of turmoil they were in in trying to understand who we were, understand what a family even was, and then how to really let some of their walls down to be able to trust us.
Unlike a biological child where most of the time they're feeling the love from their mom, from the dad, from siblings, from extended family, from a child who knows they're wanted from the beginning, that is very much lost in adoption. [00:31:09]
Then on top of that, a lot of these children do have special needs due to potentially harmful things that happened in utero or just a lack of development, depending on what country they're from or where they were birthed. So all of those things you don't really know until the child is in front of you. And I always say it's like a thousand-piece puzzle you only have 250 pieces to, and you're just trying to fill in the gaps as you go.
But for us in particular, with our son with PTSD, he is very terrified of a lot of things and has very specific triggers. So community access is so difficult for us. Even going to church is very difficult for us. You know, he can't attend a regular camp and we don't do playdates. Even going to a public park or something like that is very challenging in terms of him feeling safe and knowing that something is not going to hurt him. [00:32:08]
And so it's really just taken consistent love and grace and understanding and empathy and really just showing up for them over and over and over again before they even begin to let their walls down.
So many of these kids, they've been forced to be survivors. Chronologically, they're 10 potentially, but emotionally and developmentally, typically they're about half their age, so 5. But they have the street smarts of a 35-year-old because they've learned how to cope and how to make sure that their needs are met, however that needs to happen.
Once they're brought into a family, all of those behaviors are ingrained in them and it takes such a long time and really so much intentionality for them to even let you take care of them.
And so, yeah, that was something that we just never quite realized in terms of trauma and how that would play out in our home and just all the behaviors that would come from that.
You really, as a parent, you have to push past the behavior to realize that these kids are simply trying to communicate something to you. [00:33:14] For us, we've dealt with physical aggression and verbal aggression, lots and lots of really mean things said to us. Then our other son he dissociates. So they talk about fight, flight, or freeze, and we have one of each in our home, which makes me laugh. But you have to parent them drastically differently as a result because their survival instinct kicks in and what works for one doesn't work for another.
So I have one son who fights when he's angry or scared. I have another son who freezes when he's angry or scared. And then my daughter runs. She's our flight. She's nervous, scared whenever she is running away from us, from somebody as fast as possible, trying to protect herself.
And so, you know, we thought like, oh, we'll do X, Y and Z as parents and that will work for our children. And realizing very quickly that there's a very different concoction for each child that we have to utilize in order to meet the needs of their heart. So that was just something that was very unexpected for us and has taken just a lot of education on our part to figure that out. [00:34:26]
Laura Dugger: I'd love to hear you unpack that a little bit further. So could you give a few helpful examples of how you parent well for someone who does retreat to fight, flight, or freeze?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. So for my son who fights, typically when I see him escalating, we have to get to a safe place fairly quickly for us as parents, for his siblings, and for himself. A lot of adopted children who have physical aggression as part of their behaviors, they will often do self-harm as well in addition to harming others.
For us, that's we've created a very safe, what we call our safe room in our home. And so when we see him starting to escalate, we get to the safe room and I just stay present with him. I don't talk to him. I don't try to prompt him to do anything until he's calm. We use the zones of regulation for that. [00:35:24]
So I don't know how familiar your listeners are, but essentially it's colors where kids don't necessarily have to say I'm angry or I'm sad. They can just say what zone they're in. So the green zone is happy and calm, ready to learn. They feel safe. The yellow zone is silly, goofy, maybe a little anxious, or scared. The blue zone is sad or tired. You know, maybe just feeling lethargic for the day. And then the red zone is unsafe, angry, mad, yelling, hitting.
So a lot of times I will just note, you know, we've made a rule in our home that if either of us are in the yellow zone or red zone, we're not going to talk about it until we're both calm. A lot of that for my son with physical aggression is just being present with him in the room and letting himself cope as long as he's not self-harming to make sure that he stays safe and we stay safe.
And then once he's calm, then we debrief what happened and problem solve together how we could do that differently the next time. [00:36:26] You know, sometimes that's 20 minutes and sometimes it's three hours. And it just totally depends on the day and his ability to regulate that day. That's something that we have set in place very quickly and are able to kind of manage as he gets older and larger.
And then we do use the zones of regulation for all three, because I think that's incredibly helpful. Our other son who freezes, who dissociates, he kind of goes into his own world when he's feeling scared or anxious or upset. A lot of times for us, that's just sitting with him. He typically tries to retreat, like he'll hide it under his bed or in a different space.
We have created what we call break spaces in our home that are okay for him to sit in when he needs a break. That way we're not hiding. There's so much shame from these kids. And so that need to hide comes from that internal shame.
And so we've really tried to deconstruct that with him of there's no shame in feeling emotion. And we really are here with you no matter what you're feeling or thinking. [00:37:33]
We have kind of three or four break spaces in the house that he can go sit in that has all sorts of sensory things he can fidget with or read or play with or draw just to kind of get himself back to being present. And then again, we sit with him and talk through what happened and how we could do that differently or potentially what was a trigger for him in that moment. So very different in terms of the aggression versus the disassociation.
Then my daughter is a fighter. When she starts to get dysregulated or upset, again, we prompt her to a break space. But a lot of times we have to prompt her to her room.
And then we just sit in there with her so that she can't run away from the problem, that she can't just ignore what's happening, that again, we help her regulate and calm down and then we talk through what happened and figure out what we could do differently.
But it is just so different for each of them and how you can get to the root of their heart and their triggers is very different. [00:38:38] We just have to play that by ear a lot and lots of what we call practicing outside the moment. So for all of our kids, we practice these coping strategies when they're calm, when they're in the green zone, when we're all feeling good so that when they get to maybe the yellow or red zone, there's more muscle memory there for them to know what to do and how to do that better.
Laura Dugger: Bettina, your intentionality in parenting is just astonishing.
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I appreciate you had given us a few things to consider that we may not be aware of if we're not parenting a child who's had trauma in their past or has unique special needs. But then coming more to you and Paul's story, what are some of the unexpected challenges that have come from parenting?
Bettina Stevens: Honestly, I didn't quite expect the amount of loneliness and isolation that would come in parenting children from trauma and parenting children with special needs. It's just a unique balance in trying to care for your children and trying to find time to feel like yourself again. [00:40:37]
Often in the seasons that we've had pretty intense mental health crises with our children, I've often felt like their needs always trump my own needs, which isn't healthy at the time. But I feel like that's kind of what we need to do to survive.
The things that I just never expected were little to no sleep. We've had seasons where my boys haven't slept for 60 straight nights and not even a wink. So we're just up with them all day, all night managing their triggers or their emotions.
The physical aggression and verbal aggression, of course, was not something I played out in my head as a parent. And having to, you know, keep a child safe who's your baby and you care for them while also trying to protect yourself, that was something that I just never envisioned as a parent.
Then a lot of it is just that feeling hopeless in the moments of like, God, you called us here and now we're here, and what do we do with all this difficulty in front of us? [00:41:43] And really, I never questioned my faith as much as I have in the last six years since we brought our boys home of just that hopeless feeling and feeling so isolated and alone and just really craving just relationship with people and relationship with God, you know.
Then the other thing is so many friendships lost. We've realized very quickly that the mess in our home, quote-unquote, is just a lot for people to walk into. And while some people are willing to show up in very surface-level ways, the majority of people are unwilling to really come in and see what's happening in front of us.
So we have lost a lot of friendships because unfortunately we can't go to parties or we can't go to playdates or we can't have people over like we used to as much because really we have to prioritize the needs of our children and the safety of their hearts. That has come very, very slow and steady with their ability to trust us and know that we are going to keep their interests in the forefront. [00:42:44]
Then I would say the biggest thing for me is I've had so many changes to my personality, a lot from the secondary trauma and compassion fatigue that comes from being a caregiver to children from trauma and also a caregiver for children with special needs.
So compassion fatigue is that emotional and physical exhaustion that really just diminishes your ability to empathize or feel compassion for others. Often people call it the negative cost of caring that happens over time as the intensity of your need to care-give is happening without reprieve.
So I feel like from the day we met our boys, you know, we have had to really jump in head first and really empathize and understand things that we never thought we could comprehend. And that hasn't gotten easier as they've gotten older. It's just gotten more intense in different ways. [00:43:45] So that compassion fatigue.
Then the secondary trauma is something that I never quite envisioned. And that is like the sudden development of our own PTSD symptoms that happen as a result of the trauma that you walk through with a child.
For me, that's become significant sensitivity to sound. So really hard for me to be in groups of people or louder areas. Even in the day, I often wear noise-canceling headphones in the day just to kind of drown out the world a little bit.
Hypervigilance and anxiety in situations outside our home with our children. So really having to feel like I am the giver of their safety, no matter where we are and outside our home, my hypervigilance and anxiety can be even more heightened just to make sure that obviously my kids are safe, but that other people are safe as well. And so, yeah, I've become a lot more introverted. I crave quiet more than ever.
Then really just figuring out having to regulate myself very differently than I did pre-parenting. [00:44:52] And just really allowing myself to be okay with letting a lot of things go in order to feel like our family is cared for well.
Laura Dugger: Just to lean into a few of those, do you feel like you have any support in this season to help stabilize some of those isolating feelings and all that you're facing?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, little by little. The support group that I founded and the organization that I founded has just been a wonderful just breath of fresh air for me in that regard. Because unless you're parenting children like this, a lot of people just don't understand the depth of challenge and the depth of difficulty that comes in every day.
The families that we are in community with now since founding our organization has just been such a beautiful reprieve for our hearts to just feel seen in those moments and just for them to understand the nature of what it's like to have so much trauma in your home constantly, while also feeling like there's this expectation from the outside world to be a certain type of parent. [00:46:08] That dichotomy is really challenging to balance without somebody else anchoring you to the truth. Our community has just been a really beautiful balance for us in that moment.
Laura Dugger: It is amazing to think of the power of community.
Bettina Stevens: Yes, for sure.
Laura Dugger: What about... are there counseling resources available?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would say I tell parents in particular all the time that there's no right way to do this. Every person is so different and every child is so different.
For me, I never envisioned myself needing a therapist. I felt like I was very well-versed in my emotions and my ability to have coping strategies in place. And oh, my goodness, realizing so quickly that having somebody objective to anchor you, to give you truth when it's really difficult to see who's also not in the trenches with you is really valuable. [00:47:14]
And so I highly recommend counseling for obviously for marriages, for couples, but also just for parents individually to work through your own trauma, your own insecurities, your own difficulties so that you can actually be a better parent for your kids.
I think that's different for every person, but really important to find a therapist who can understand adoption and foster care, trauma, special needs, so that when you're sharing things about your children or you're sharing emotions about yourself in terms of a reaction to your child's behavior, that there's an empathy and an understanding there that doesn't come from every therapist who maybe doesn't have experience with those types of situations.
So very encouraging to find someone that way. But I think that has been a beautiful part of my story just in terms of really anchoring myself to truth weekly in the midst of feeling so much overwhelm at times.
Laura Dugger: I think that is so wise. It's always helpful to hear both sides. [00:48:16] So now will you share what have been some of the greatest gifts and rewards of parenting?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I say all the time that adoption is equal parts brokenness and beauty, and that's so true. So having so much intentionality in our parenting and having to really change the way we think about our lives.
It has just been so beautiful to see my kids begin to understand their worth, to realize that they don't need to feel shame for everything that they do or say, for them to verbalize safety in our home. And when that happens, subsequently, they're able to share their hearts.
I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hook, but the part where he kind of grabs his face and he's like, "There you are, Peter." That's how I feel with my kids all the time of just these glimpses of the tenderness of their hearts and just the beautiful pieces and gifts and talents that God placed in them in their mother's wombs. [00:49:22] You know, that those come out little by little by little as you peel away all of these layers of the onion.
So just those pieces of them where you get to see their true personality and their true selves has just been worth just every minute of heartache for us, because I always want them to just be their best selves and whatever that looks like. And just seeing them create their own relationship with Jesus has been so beautiful. So that is for sure the icing on the cake.
On my end of things, I think challenging myself to have really hard conversations around mental health, around race, around trauma and self-care has been such a great gift for me because it's something that I never really thought about. And now I'm really having to dive deep since I have two Black children and one Chinese daughter.
That is something that I have to constantly think about and put myself into and make myself feel uncomfortable so that I can make them have more safety around their identity and who they are on the outside, just as much as who they are on the inside. [00:50:29]
I say all the time that anything we do for God will more than likely never be comfortable. And that is something that I've really embraced in the parenting of my children. But just really being able to see their little hearts shine.
Laura Dugger: That is such a mature way to live. I want to go back. You had mentioned how powerful community has been. So can you think of what you would say is the most helpful thing that your community has done to support you and Paul and your family?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I would say the biggest thing that we've ever wanted that we still want to date is really just having people sit with us. I think there's something so powerful about just being physically present with somebody in some of their darkest moments and not trying to fix it or not trying to problem-solve, but really just saying, "Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. And I'm here for you." That has been the most powerful times of our lives where we've really felt seen. [00:51:31]
And obviously, in terms of seasons of crisis, people bringing food or doing some tangible things are wonderful. But really the thing that we need the most as a family is people just bearing witness to what's happening, even if it feels dark and heavy.
We've lost a lot of friends because we've had to hibernate with our kids as they heal and as we really allow them to feel safety. And so I think just people being willing to enter into that with you and really just sit with you has been the most powerful thing for our lives.
Laura Dugger: I'm more hesitant to ask the flip side, but I do think it's important for us to learn. Is there anything that's been the most harmful that your community maybe unintentionally did?
Bettina Stevens: I don't know that I realized how difficult it would be for people to want to empathize with what we were going through. And really that's what it's come down to is people having kind of the same expectations of us post-kids as they did pre-kids. [00:52:38] I think that's probably been the hardest thing.
The majority of people, you know, for them, the story was in bringing our kids home. And then once we brought our kids home, it was like, Oh, well, they're home and everything should be normal. You know, they should just be able to jump in. These kids are so blessed to have a family.
And really realizing how convoluted that was, because as soon as our kids came home, it was like we started over again. You know, that was when the real work started. And that's when we really had to change kind of everything we did in terms of our lives previously to acclimate that child to our family, but also attach to them and bond with them since we've missed four years of their lives.
I think that was probably the most hurtful thing was just people really ostracizing us often for not being able to show up to a party or or come over for dinner or just little things that I took so for granted before bringing our kids home that are just really challenging now as a family. [00:53:45]
I think a lot of that judgment and almost a little bit of condemnation came from people just being unwilling to understand our circumstances and why we couldn't do those things anymore, versus really trying to see what was happening inside the walls of our home and sitting with us in those moments. I think that has been the hardest part.
We really have lost a lot of friends in the process of this, just people who are, you know, not willing to sit in the mess. That was really hard to swallow but also, I think just really confirming for us of who are those people who are willing to see us like Jesus sees us.
Laura Dugger: Well, first, I'm so sorry just to hear the depths of the friendships being lost and people not being able to sit and be present what you feel like your soul is longing for, crying out for. I just think here you and Paul are doing what you know you were called to do and yet it came with all of this sacrifice. [00:54:50]
I'm sure you would have loved to attend those dinner parties. So it was such a selfless act. And so then to heap condemnation on top of that, that's just hard.
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, it was for sure. And something that we still work through regularly and are much more cautious of who we bring in to get to know our family, because it's heartbreaking for our kids, too, you know.
So, yeah, it's been a struggle. But also, like you said, we know that this is what we've been called to do and we know that this is what God created us for. So I think we've really had to rest in Him during those moments, for sure.
Laura Dugger: Well, if you did have to narrow it down to a few of the most powerful lessons God's taught you through your parenting journey, what would you share?
Bettina Stevens: He's always with us. Even when we feel he's the farthest away, He's right there with us. I think that was something that in the beginning was so difficult for me to see. [00:55:52] Then really realizing, like, we are the closest to the river when we're in the valley. It became more of a lament for me and just a sacred time with Him where I realized he's not surprised by my anger and He's not surprised by my heartache.
And it's okay to not have words. There's been so many nights where I've just played worship music and just wept because I felt like I couldn't utter one more word in prayer. I just felt like I'd prayed everything, there was nothing left to pray. And just realizing, like, in those moments, He is there to comfort us and be with us.
I really had to learn to trust Him day after day, even with no evidence of hope. I think those are the lessons that I hold on to, that even when I feel isolated and lonely from relationships in my community, that He is always there and He is never leaving us.
Laura Dugger: Wow, I've never heard that imagery before. And just thinking when we're on the mountaintop, we can gain perspective and we can see the river, we can see Him at work and see a little bit more of the picture. But absolutely being in the valley and being so near to him. That's powerful. [00:57:09]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah.
Laura Dugger: Bettina, what is something that you're passionate to communicate to everyone, specifically as it relates to adoption or foster care?
Bettina Stevens: I would say I have two really big points. First, to people who may know someone who's fostering or adopting or even has children with special needs. And that would just be that families need support. So much support.
You know, we as parents spend so much time investing hope, safety, healing into our children, and really, no one is doing that for the parents. So I would say the parents need just as much care as the children they're caring for. And really they just need people to bear witness to the beauty and the brokenness, as I mentioned earlier. You know, friendships and relationships are what keep families afloat.
I really believe that while not everyone is called to foster or adopt, everyone is called to support that mission. [00:58:09] I think one way to do that is to simply show up for these families and get to know them, get to know every member of the family, get to know what their needs are, what their fears are, you know, what makes them tick and really just allow each member of the family to feel cared for and supported in those times of crisis.
I would say that's one thing. Then the other side for foster adopted special needs families, I say all the time that it's okay to ask for help. It's so needed to ask for help. And it doesn't mean you're a failure.
I think for the first few years that we had our boys, I felt like a terrible mom. I felt like I was failing at everything and that even choosing something like a medicinal intervention would be me failing as a parent. And just realizing quickly that I am not meant to be their savior. I am not meant to be their healer. I'm meant to be their mom. I think that I can love them unconditionally, but their healing and their ability to find who they are is going to come from God. [00:59:16] Letting a lot of those expectations go is so important.
And then really just asking for help, constantly asking for help for the little things, for the big things. And I say that could be help from people or it could be help from doctors. Before I really felt like putting my children on medication would be me failing because I couldn't meet their needs. And really, it's just that their brains and bodies are wired differently and maybe that's exactly what they need in order to be able to access who they are.
I just really encourage families to let those expectations go of you feeling like you need to heal every part of your kids. Really let that go and really hand it over to Jesus and then really just ask for help.
Laura Dugger: I just want to spend a few more minutes really focusing on those parents who are in the trenches right now. I think your specificity is maybe going to help stir some ideas for them as well. [01:00:16] So for you, what keeps you encouraged and renewed or ready to face each day?
Bettina Stevens: For me, that's always time with Jesus. I am not a morning person. I used to sleep in till 10, 10:30 before I had kids when I could. I just really, really crave just a slow morning. But with kiddos and even my own symptoms of secondary traumatic stress, I really needed alone time to feel like I'm ready for the day.
I get up every morning at 4:15, 4:30. I spend time with Jesus. That could be prayer. That could be worship. That could be just listening to a Dwell Bible app or something where I can just listen to the word. That could be journaling.
But really, it's just a quiet, reverent time for me to feel like I can regroup, get my head on for the day, and really just kind of give all of my insecurities, my fears, my feelings of overwhelm for the day over to Jesus. [01:01:19] So that's something I do Monday through Friday every morning just to kind of get myself ready for the day.
Exercise is huge for me. I exercise six days a week religiously. And that's something that keeps me feeling like I can function and kind of, again, feel prepared for the day.
Quality time with Paul is so, so important to me. And it doesn't come very often, but we are very intentional about that time. That's something that keeps us connected and keeps me renewed and just feeling like I can be a wife just as much as I can be a mom, which I think is few and far between for those of us who have littles at home.
Then really support groups with other families who understand. So we run a support group, but we also just spend time with other families who have other adopted children or special needs children and just really have some solidarity and just communication around the struggles, but also the beauties of that. So those are all ways I keep myself encouraged and renewed. [01:02:19]
Then truthfully, I see a therapist every week and I'm on an anti-anxiety medication, which both of which I was so reluctant to do because, again, I really felt like I was failing as a human being. I think really just that stigma around mental health was something I never really discussed growing up. And now I'm such a huge advocate for because I really do feel like for me to be my best self, I really do need a little bit more assistance right now in these times of struggle.
I think that that has been something that I've been so grateful to just feel freedom to do and not be judged or feel shamed about, but just really embrace that as part of my healing journey.
Laura Dugger: Just want to encourage you that I think it's even more courageous to not only recognize that but then to follow up and do something about it. So I admire you so much. I appreciate that answer. [01:03:17]
Just thinking of that parent now, if they're feeling desperate and they just want another handle to grab on to, I think you've given some great ideas. Dwell is amazing. Obviously, time with the Lord is just necessity. Are there any other resources or practical applications that you would encourage them to try?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. I think some of that comes from the point that they're feeling overwhelmed. So sometimes for me, it's really just a gauge. Like I have a zero to ten gauge. I talk about this a lot in our support groups with our families. But just where are you in that realm of overwhelm or stress or compassion fatigue and knowing kind of your early warning signs of where you are in that process so that you can ask for help or take a break?
So for me, I love to cook and I love to bake, and that's something that just fills me up. And so I know when I get to the point where I'm really having trouble meal planning for the week, like that just feels so overwhelming to me, I know that I'm really not in a great space and I'm headed towards an even worse space. [01:04:27] That's like an early warning sign for me of something I know that I need to regroup on and figure out a way to do that.
For a lot of parents, I would say, really figure out where you are in that spectrum and write down your early warning signs and then write down the things that you know help. Like for me, I take a shower, a hot shower every evening after I put my kids down, because sometimes it just helps me wash the day away.
It was actually something that my son's trauma therapist recommended to me years ago, and I was like, "Oh, that sounds awful." And now it's something I do every single night. It really helps me regroup. I really do feel like it's a reset for the evening so that I can actually be present for time with my husband or present for just other things I want to get done in the evening.
So that's something that has been hugely helpful for me to just feel like I'm kind of starting fresh once the kids are in bed and can just regroup for myself. [01:05:26]
Then, you know, a few other things that come with that are just little pieces of the day. Like for me, I love lighting candles in the evening or in the morning. That could be taking breaks in the day. I regularly set breaks in the day for the kids and for myself so that I can just come in my room and regroup for a few minutes so that I can stay recharged and refreshed.
But I think if you as a parent are feeling overwhelmed in your confidence or ability to parent your children, there's so many books and resources. You know, the Karen Purvis Institute is huge. The Connected Child, The Connected Parent, just other really beautiful resources that you can go to to figure out ways to better understand the needs of your children and really feel like you can be confident in parenting them moving forward.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for giving such practical applications. And now, will you just tell us a little bit more about your nonprofit and direct us where we can find you online? [01:06:25]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. In 2018, we launched Reclaimed Hope Initiative, and the name came just from, as I mentioned before, just walking with so many families who just kept saying, "I feel so hopeless. I feel so hopeless. I feel so hopeless." And we have been there as well and just really feeling that lack of hope in our parenting journey.
So we decided, like, how can we help people reclaim their hope? And so we launched Reclaimed Hope Initiative really as just a support group for families. We started with about six and in nine months, we had more than quadrupled in size. And families just kept bringing more families.
Since then, we've launched all sorts of programming. But essentially we walk families through IEPs, navigation for schools, specifically for trauma-competent care in schools, and how to really advocate for your child's needs. We help families navigate Medicaid waivers. So if you have a child with special needs, how to get your child on the waiver, how to fill out the paperwork. [01:07:27]
We do meal deliveries, therapeutic counseling for parents. We do a trauma camp for children called Camp Hope. So any youth with a traumatic past who can't access a regular summer camp is able to come to our camp with some trauma-competent caregivers in place and just the ability for them to feel like they can be a kid.
We also do respite care and then we train and hire caregivers to pair with families who are able to manage a range of trauma needs all the way to special needs. And it's just been something that was very unexpected. I say all the time I very selfishly started our support groups because Paul and I needed support. And it has just been a beautiful fruition of God's calling of our adoption, of our ability to parent.
Paul and I are also licensed foster parents. And so just the foster care journey and just supporting families through those periods of time, it has been so beautiful and something that I'm now doing full-time in addition to caring for my kids. [01:08:29] So I'm just so grateful that a) God planted the seed so long ago, but b) that He's really given me the capacity to care for others like I needed to be cared for in those moments of darkness.
Laura Dugger: This nonprofit just sounds absolutely amazing, and I think it's a great first place for people to go and learn a little bit more, see if it can be helpful for their journey. Could you give us the website one more time and we'll link to it in the show notes?
Bettina Stevens: Yeah, of course. It's just reclaimedhopeinitiative.org. Then you can also find us on Instagram or Facebook at Reclaimed Hope Initiative.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. You know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Bettina, what is your savvy sauce?
Bettina Stevens: I would say for me it's to never stop being intentional about your dreams. [01:09:29] I think that there is such a beauty around the gifts and talents that God gave us in our mother's womb as you were a little, as you got older. And I know for me, the weekends that I can get away either by myself or with Paul and just spend time dreaming about the gifts God has given me and how I want to utilize them or for our organization or for my family, those are the times that I feel most like myself, that I feel the most refreshed, that I feel so close to God.
I think even in really difficult seasons, it's so important to never stop dreaming. So I would say be intentional about your dreams, set aside time and really just trust that God has a beautiful story that he's writing even in the midst of hardship.
Laura Dugger: Your faithful obedience to God just radiates from you and you worship Him by the way you live your life. So thank you for letting us in on your journey today and thank you for being my guest. [01:10:31]
Bettina Stevens: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Laura. I appreciate it.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [01:11:33] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [01:12:33] And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [01:13:38] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
237 Stories Series: Prodigal and Redemption with Renee Endress
19 Aug· The Savvy Sauce
237. Stories Series: Prodigal and Redemption with Renee Endress
**Transcription Below**
Isaiah 61:1-3 (KJV) "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified."
Questions and Topics We Cover:
1. Will you tell us a bit about your experience of surrendering your life to Christ?
2. Will you share your journey with your prodigal daughter, Andrea?
3. Will you tell us about Grace Catering and your cookbooks?
Renée Endress is blessed to be the mother of seven children ranging from 16-32 years old, all of whom she homeschooled. Four of the seven are married and her six precious grandchildren bring her much joy and laughter! She is also part of a church family she loves and her dear parents passed on to her a love of sunsets, flowers, and the beauty of God's creation.
Cooking has been a passion for much of her life and she's written three cookbooks, which were later combined into one large book. For the past ten years, she enjoyed catering, which kept growing and eventually blossomed into an almost full-time job. A couple years ago, she refurbished a building in Peoria, Illinois, which is now her catering kitchen where they make homemade take and bake meals for people to purchase. Through it all, God has been so good!
Renée says, "I could share just the pretty parts of my life, but I've come to realize that something special can happen when people are real with each other -- when we share the muddy parts of our lives as well as the lovely parts. This can be used to encourage each other on the journey, and most of all, to point to the faithfulness of our amazing Savior, who loves to redeem our mud stories.
My story looks much different than my idealistic hopes for my future as a young woman, but through it all, God has been faithful every single step of the way. He was faithful in teaching me as an immature newlywed struggling through some very difficult relationship situations. He was faithful as I walked, tripped, and floundered with a daughter through some very dark teenage years, deep rebellion, ten months at a residential facility for troubled teens, and a teenage pregnancy. He was oh, so faithful when my difficult marriage of twenty-four years turned more and more destructive and led to an ongoing separation. He was faithful two years later when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and underwent two surgeries and radiation treatments. He has been faithful through ten years of "single" motherhood. He was faithful as He opened doors for me to start a thriving catering business at the perfect time. He was faithful when He allowed me to be a part of starting "Beauty for Ashes," a group for women from my national church who have come from painful marriages. As I look back on my life, I see plainly His footprints all the way through.
These verses have been so meaningful in my life: "...He hath sent me (Jesus) to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound... to comfort all that mourn... to give them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified." Isaiah 61:1-3"
Visit Renée's Business or Order Her Popular Cookbook at Grace Catering
Other Related Episode from The Savvy Sauce:
78 Parenting the Prodigal Child And God’s Desire For Redemption With Mother-Daughter Duo, Claire Stanfill and Tindell Baldwin
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at LemanProperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
My guest today is Renee Endress, entrepreneur, mother to seven, and my dear aunt. Renee has walked through some extremely dark and difficult times, which does make the light of Christ shine that much brighter.
She's going to share one particular season as she parented her prodigal daughter.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Renee.
Renee Endress: Thank you so much, Laura. It is an honor and a privilege to be here with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, will you just begin by telling us a bit more about your experience of surrendering your life to Christ? [00:01:21]
Renee Endress: Absolutely. My testimony of faith isn't necessarily one of those exciting, edge-of-your-seat thrillers, but I still feel it's relatable to others. I also think no matter how the Lord works in each of our hearts to draw us to Him, each story is a miracle. I feel beyond blessed to have grown up in an amazing Christian family.
My childhood wasn't perfect, but it really was very idyllic. And my parents, as you know, lived out their deep faith in a very real way every single day. They were always looking for opportunities to love and serve others and bless the lives of those around them.
Even though you're already aware of this, I can't begin to tell others of the countless thousands of notes of encouragement that Mom sent to others, or the number of times that they visited and gave gifts or food to widows, widowers, sick people, people with special needs, and the list could go on and on. [00:02:21]
They truly modeled how to be the hands and feet of Jesus. They also modeled a beautiful, godly marriage. They loved each other so deeply and were also best friends. Way up to the very end, Dad would gaze at Mom with love in his eyes and call her his vivacious bride.
Family mealtime, Bible reading, and prayer around the table was sacred to them. Mom almost constantly had tapes of sermons or hymns playing while she worked. And I know that ages me there with the tapes.
She was also a prayer warrior. It was a common sight to walk by their bedroom door and find her on her knees praying at their bedside. So, because of all of this, my five siblings and I were immersed in the Word from little on up. I had a love for Jesus, and I feel like I had a real level of innocence until I was a young teen.
Recently, we came across a book of poems I had written when I was about 11 or 12 years old. Many of them were poems about Jesus and heaven. [00:03:22]
When I was about 14, I started feeling a deep conviction about my sin and knowing I needed to make the faith I'd grown up with my own. But during my high school years, I did my very best to ignore Jesus and the conviction that I was feeling. I convinced myself that I needed to experience all the fun of this world. For three years, I followed this elusive path of fun, but it was always so empty.
Satan is so good at planning excuses and reasons for procrastination, and he loves to make it look so difficult to surrender to Jesus. And it seems like he holds out all the things that we must give up as larger than life.
Finally, after months of misery, it all came to a head one day while I was hanging out with a group of wild kids. There was reckless driving and heavy metal music and inappropriate activities. And I realized the depths of my misery, and I finally surrendered my life to Jesus. I'm so thankful every day now. [00:04:21] But I'm ashamed as I look back to see my spiritual immaturity at the time.
My focus often seemed to be on the things I was giving up instead of on the goodness of God and Jesus and their tremendous sacrifice for me and my new life in Christ. As I look back now, though, I also see how my whole life's journey, and especially the deeply painful parts, have shaped me and deepened my faith and my love for the Lord.
His word has been my absolute lifeline through the darkest days, and without His grace and peace to carry me, I know I'd just be a huddled heap of defeat and brokenness. His goodness and mercy never cease to amaze me. I'm so eternally grateful I can say, along with a songwriter, I'm thankful for the scars, for without them I wouldn't truly know His heart. I don't even want to imagine my life without Him.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for sharing your testimony with us. And just going back, you were the fifth child of six children total, and so a pretty large family to grow up in. [00:05:24] Did you envision having your own big family as well?
Renee Endress: So, I really did always have a desire to be a wife and mom. If I'm remembering right, I was asked in high school how many kids I'd like to have, and my answer was four or five. So, seven was definitely above and beyond what I'd envisioned, but I had always wanted to have a decent number of kids, and I certainly can't imagine my life without any of them.
Laura Dugger: Let's then just jump ahead to when you did have all seven kids and you were homeschooling. So, what was the age range of your children when they were all living under the same roof?
Renee Endress: So I started homeschooling when Andrea, my oldest, was 5 years old, so that was almost 27 years ago. My youngest will be a senior this fall, so I'm coming to the end of an era, and that is a lot of years of homeschooling.
Andrea is 16 years older than Cambria, the youngest, so they were never all in their school-age years at the same time. But there were definitely years I was homeschooling four or five of them, from teens all the way down to the young grade school years. [00:06:34] And there were always at least a couple toddlers playing slash destroying things right beside us.
Laura Dugger: Renee, it runs in our family not to have very easy pregnancies, so going through that seven times in 16 years and homeschooling on top of that and living on a farm, there was so much on your plate. So, how did motherhood look different than you expected?
Renee Endress: Yes. For one thing, I have to say I'm thankful that my pregnancies weren't as hard as some of the other ones in our family. I definitely always had morning sickness in the beginning, but I feel like I got off easier than a lot of people as far as really hard pregnancies.
But it's kind of crazy how much I've already forgotten about what day-to-day life looked like back then. Mainly, I just remember being extremely busy. I'd hit the floor running in the morning, and I wouldn't stop until late at night. I definitely had a lot more energy back then. [00:07:33]
So, we usually all had breakfast together, and I'd do a few chores, like get some laundry started and a few things like that, and then we'd jump into our school day. I usually like to start off by doing some things together, like our scripture memorization and some sort of character enrichment story. And then the older kids would work on their assignments while I worked with the younger ones.
I'd maybe leave the school room long enough to go start a load of laundry or change a diaper, and then I'd keep taking turns with whichever one needed help at the time until lunchtime. We usually had a very simple lunch, and then afterwards the little ones would go down for naps, and I'd read history or a good historical fiction book to the others while they did some chores like folding laundry, or sometimes it was more like throwing laundry all around the room.
Whoever hadn't finished their schoolwork would head back to the schoolroom with me, and we'd plug away until all their assignments were done. Then the kids usually had some free time while I graded papers and did some housework.
I was pretty scheduled with the chores. [00:08:32] We had a chart up in the kitchen with a rotation of which one was assigned to each job after a meal. They also had their weekly cleaning schedule, and as they got older, they had their outdoor chores as well.
We had a big lawn on our farm and a big garden, and we also had some animals like calves and goats off and on as well, so they each had their part to do to keep up with everything.
As they got older, they loved to go out and help run the tractors and the combine on our farm. As much as they didn't always love doing their chores, some of them did them more willingly than others, but it was well worth it because they're all hard workers now, so I'm so thankful for that. It was worth the training.
They also spent a lot of time playing and using their imaginations in the days before cell phones and social media took over. They enjoyed having me read books to them at night. We loved having other families over for meals and game nights. Another activity we loved was camping, so we did a lot of that in the summers. [00:09:31]
So those were busy and exhausting days, and definitely not without their problems and stresses, but there were also a lot of good times and a lot of good memories made.
Laura Dugger: I agree, that is something that marks all of your children. They are such hard workers. It's very admirable.
Renee Endress: Thank you.
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Laura Dugger: And we have a pretty large extended family, and like we mentioned before, we're related because you and my mom are sisters. I was sadly her prodigal child before I came to Christ. But then at that time, all of our family was praying for your first daughter, Andrea, who was also choosing to go down a difficult path. And mercifully, she's given us permission to share her story.
In fact, one morning in my quiet time with the Lord, I had been praying for a while about reaching out to others to do a series on God's stories. And there was this one specific Monday morning He led me with a sense of urgency and I journaled about how I thought He was asking me to begin, in all caps, TODAY. [00:12:38]
So that very day, I reached out to inquire about an interview with you and you said it was that exact morning that Andrea told you she was praying for ways to use her life to bless others. God's timing was such an encouragement to proceed. So now, will you share your journey with Andrea?
Renee Endress: Absolutely. Yes. So Andrea had always been a strong-willed child. She's our oldest, like we've mentioned, and so she was stuck being our guinea pig for our parenting journey. I always feel like somehow looking back, my parents made parenting look so easy. And then I remember thinking, when I was 16 years old, I thought I had all the answers on how to be a perfect parent. But I quickly found out, number one, parenting is not easy, and number two, I had absolutely no idea how to be a perfect parent.
In looking back, I realized that in many ways I was too hard on Andrea, and I expected too much out of her. I expected her to fit my mold, and I made a lot of things into battles with her that really weren't worth it. [00:13:46] If I had it to do over, I'd make a lot of changes there.
As Andrea became a teen, she began to go through some very dark years. She went into deep rebellion. She became involved with a scary group of friends who had prison records, and they smoked and drank and used drugs.
Her friends even stole from us on multiple occasions. One time we found out that they had stolen gas, and another time we found a bunch of coins that had been given to us by Grandpa that were missing.
The more we tried to set boundaries and keep her away from these people and the bad choices she was making, the angrier and sneakier she became. She got so good at lying, it was almost impossible to try to discern the truth. I often said her stories had more holes than Swiss cheese, but yet it was always hard, if not impossible, to prove that she was lying.
There were so many terrifying nights that I woke up to find her missing, completely clueless where she was. And then we got some phone calls once that she had been caught stealing from a grocery store and one time from a gas station. [00:14:51]
We were gone the day she got caught stealing alcohol at the grocery store, and since it was in the days before we had cell phones, we didn't find out till we got home that night that she'd been taken to a jail cell at the police station. I can't remember if a friend had bailed her out by the time we found out or what. I just remember the giant gut punch when we got the news. She would have probably been about 15 at the time.
The time she got caught stealing gas from the gas station, which I later found out was certainly not the first time she had done it, I got a phone call from the station manager. She ordered me to bring Andrea to the station as soon as possible.
She was kind enough to want to give Andrea another chance instead of calling the police. So when we got to the gas station, she pulled us back into the broom closet and unleashed on Andrea. She let her know in no uncertain terms where her life was headed if she kept making these bad choices, and she assured her that if there was a next time, she would be heading to jail. [00:15:51] I stood there and sobbed while Andrea stood there stone-faced and seemingly completely unfazed.
During this time, her anger was completely out of control, and it was often aimed at me. It was terrifying, too, when she and her dad went into rages, and I felt totally smashed between them.
My marriage had also become more and more destructive. I sometimes just wanted to pray a bomb would fall on me during the night to end this ongoing stress, terror, anguish, and chaos, but I knew I needed to be there and emotionally healthy for the sake of the five other children we had at the time.
It was during this time in my life that God and His Word became my absolute lifeline. I had Bible verses on Post-it notes plastered all over my mirror. I memorized comforting hymns that I tried to sing through my tears. He was my anchor, and His Word gave me hope and courage when nothing else could.
I realized what a powerful thing hope is. [00:16:53] I hung that word up in different places throughout my house to remind me never to give up hope. I also started noticing how often hope is mentioned in Scripture, and I realized that it's a powerful gift from God. I underlined all the scriptures that I could find about hope. It was very interesting to me. It's a good study.
It was also during this time that God gave me an amazing sign to show me how much He cared about me and that He was right there with me no matter how deep and dark the pit that I was in.
It had been a particularly bad day. The wind had been roaring in an unnerving way all day. As I got ready for bed, I cried out to God, "My life feels just like that wind. It's so chaotic and out of control. I just long for some peace and stillness."
The words had just left my mouth, and instantly, the wind stopped blowing. For about ten minutes, it was totally calm. And then the wind resumed its raging. But I will never, ever forget the night God stopped the wind for me. [00:17:57]
Some verses that were very comforting to me during this time, and I had literally hundreds, but these are just a few I'll share. "They are at their wits' end. Then they cry unto the Lord in their trouble, and He bringeth them out of their distresses. He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still." And that comes from Psalm 107.
"Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me, for my soul trusteth in thee. Yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpassed." And during that time, I just felt like my life was going from one calamity to the next.
But after a time, God opened the doors for Andrea to move to a residential facility for troubled teens for about ten months. I was so thankful to know that she was in a safe place, and it was a blessing to be able to have some respite from the constant stress of her rebellion, as well as to be able to focus more on the other children.
At the same time, all was not smooth sailing at home. Our marriage was in shambles, and I was pregnant with our seventh child. [00:18:59] So I was questioning God, Why? Why give us another child when our marriage was collapsing? Why when it seemed we were obviously doing a terrible job with the ones we already had? Just why? These were some very dark days.
Then after ten months, Andrea moved home, and she quickly started making very bad choices again. And then came the darkest days of my life so far.
Our marriage was pretty much a total disaster. Things had progressively gotten uglier and uglier, and some very hard new things had just come to light. And then one Wednesday night, we went to our bedroom after church. There on my pillow was laying an envelope with our 18-year-old daughter's writing on the front, for Dad and Mom only. My heart started pounding as I began to fear the worst. With shaking hands, I opened the envelope, and there were the words, "I'm pregnant."
God had prepared me for this day years before when I had read the story of a lady and her loving response when she received those words from her unmarried daughter. [00:20:06] I had tucked it into the back of my mind, hoping it was a lesson I'd never have the need for, but knowing it was how I wanted to handle the situation if I was ever faced with it.
Because of God's grace, I was able to go to her bedroom that night, wrap my arms around her, tell her I loved her always and no matter what, and tell her I was so thankful she had chosen life, and let her know I would love this child with all my heart.
She was a high school dropout working at Burger King. The father was fresh out of prison, but God gave me hope to cling to that this might be the very thing she needed to turn her life around.
We've been challenged in our church in sermons to notice how many verses there are in the Bible that start with the words, "but God", and see how those two words just change everything. This was the uncontested, very worst time in my life with so many hard things hitting at once, BUT God gave me peace and joy in a way that I've never felt before. [00:21:09]
My life was in absolute shambles, but I was filled with God's peace and joy in a way that I can't even begin to describe.
I kept thinking about the Bible account of Jesus walking across wind-whipped waves toward his disciples in their boat. When Peter saw him, he got out of the boat and began walking toward Jesus. But when he took his eyes off Jesus and focused on the wind, he was afraid, and he started to sink.
I saw the parallels with my own life. When I focus on the size of the storm that's swirling around me, I begin to sink in fear. But when I can stay focused on Jesus and the size of my God, he fills me with his peace.
So often during this time, I reminded myself of the words of Isaiah 26:3, "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee, because he trusteth in thee." I also realized that when our eyes are open, searching for what I like to call hugs from God, they're there, even in the very hardest times. [00:22:09]
Two examples of this come from the day my grandson was born. I was a 38-year-old woman watching my teenage daughter bring my first grandchild into the world. Labor was long and hard. The father and his brother were in and out of the hospital room between smoking breaks. Other friends of theirs were in and out. They were people I would have never chosen to be in my grandchild's life.
And then the little man was born. And as I held him for the first time and prayed over him, and wondered what his life would hold, my heart was filled with so much love, but also fear and sorrow.
When it was time to fill out his birth certificate, after all the questionable gangster-type names that they'd been contemplating, they named him Isaiah. That's one of my favorite books of the Bible. It's a book that has sustained me through waters that felt like they were going to overflow me, and through fires that felt like they were going to absolutely incinerate me. [00:23:15] Isaiah, the prophet who wrote the words, Fear not, for I have redeemed thee. I have called thee by thy name. Thou art mine. And Isaiah, the prophet who wrote the words of my peace verse.
And then Andrea snapped some pictures of me holding the precious little bundle in front of the hospital curtain, which was covered with random words. I went home and pulled that picture up on my computer. I noticed the hospital curtain behind us with all its jumble of words. Some of them were barely legible, but one, and only one word was lit up like it was glowing. It was just above my shoulder. The word "Peace". And God's peace just washed over me.
It was during this time that I could first truly say along with Job, "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth me." That comes from Job 42:5. There was just so much evidence of Him working in my life. [00:24:13]
Things were still super discouraging. Andrea and Isaiah moved in and out of our house. She moved from one broken relationship to another. Some of them were abusive. And for a while they lived in a trailer with holes in the floor large enough for animals to get in. It was painful to watch her continue to make poor decisions, but one thing I will say, she always worked hard to support herself and Isaiah.
I prayed for change for her. I prayed for change in my marriage, but neither change came. I silently screamed, why? Where was my Romans 8:28 miracle? Aren't all things supposed to work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose?
And then one day it hit me. These things might not look like they were working any earthly good, but God didn't promise that it would always work out for good on this earth. What if this was all for my utmost good? What if God was using all of this to shape me and refine me in ways nothing else could to conform me to be more like Jesus? [00:25:18]
Over time, there were gradual changes for the better with Andrea. Isaiah has always been such a kind and loving boy with a very soft heart. We're so thankful he's a part of our family, and I love being his Grammy.
Andrea also loved him from the very beginning and always had a desire to give him a good life. He really was the beginning of gradual changes for the better in her life. She got her GED before he was born, and eventually with much determination and hard work she went to college and then to nursing school.
It was no small feat for her to commute to nursing school, raise Isaiah, and support them both through the process. I had always said if she could use that strong will for something good, it would take her places, and it has.
After a lot of broken relationships, she reconnected with Jordan. He was someone she had met at her cousin's wedding when she was in 8th grade. That day she went home and wrote in her journal that it was the best day of her life and she loved him. [00:26:19]
They had lost touch quite a few years ago, but then they reconnected a few years ago when he moved back to our area from out of state, and they've been together almost ever since.
For many years, she hadn't been attending any church. Also, after so many hard relationships over the years, she said she never wanted to get married, but my many, many prayers that God would relentlessly pursue her and the prayers of many others were finally answered a little over a year ago.
God was working overtime in her heart. She always had a very close and special relationship with my mom. Isaiah coined the name Little Grandma for her, and it's stuck with our whole family ever since. Of course, you know that since she's your little grandma too, Laura.
Little Grandma, who was one of Andrea's biggest prayer warriors, went to be with Jesus in October of 2021. She had left letters behind for her family telling them that she wanted to see them all again in heaven someday. [00:27:19] That made a huge impact on Andrea, and she knew she'd never see her precious little grandma again if she didn't surrender her heart to Jesus.
She and Jordan began attending a local church after going there for the baptism of her cousin. Jordan was so ready to surrender, but she kept dragging her feet, although she told him she wouldn't hold him back. Sunday after Sunday, Jordan encouraged her to go to church with him, but then their pastor began a very convicting series of sermons on 1 Corinthians.
They realized again that they were living in sin, and they weren't sure that they were fully ready to commit. They justified. They were talking over all the good things they did, and the fact that they attended church every Sunday, and they prayed, and they gave to people in need, but deep down, they still knew that just being good people wasn't going to earn them eternity in heaven.
Then, one Sunday of last year, they read in their church from Acts 2. Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [00:28:24] They looked at each other and they knew it was time to quit running.
First, they decided that they needed to commit to quit living in sin by living together unmarried, so they got engaged. That, in and of itself, was a huge miracle, since Andrea had always been adamant that she wasn't going to get married.
And then they met with their pastor for premarital counseling. I will never forget receiving that amazing, miraculous text as I sat in Sam's Club parking lot. I wept tears of joy and thankfulness when I read those words that I'd sometimes thought I would never hear. They had made the decision to surrender their hearts and lives to Jesus. Thousands and thousands of prayers were answered that day. They were baptized last spring and then married in June on Andrea's 32nd birthday.
I'm so grateful every day for the miracles in their lives, and for the miracle 14 years ago of our precious Isaiah. [00:29:28] Andrea has said many times that he saved her life. She is sure that without him, she would have continued down the path she was on and may have ended up in prison or a drug addict or something even worse. God is so good.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Renee, thank you so much. What an incredible story of redemption. It just points to our good, loving Father. And the story continues, even with Isaiah. There is just something special about him that he has been marked since birth. How has he adjusted now to Jordan coming into the picture and Jordan and Andrea marrying?
Renee Endress: Yes. I'm so thankful. He and Jordan have a wonderful relationship. He does still have a relationship with his biological dad, which I'm glad that he does have that. But he and Jordan have also developed a very special relationship.
Yeah, recently I thought it was so cute. He told me that the day that his mom and Jordan got married was the second-best day of his life. [00:30:34] So, of course, I had to ask what the very best day of his life was, and he said, "Well, the day I was born, of course."
Laura Dugger: I love that so much. That just illustrates more of the redemption and the warmth in their family. That is so encouraging. I hope that that resonates with someone right now who has hope, but they're not seeing the fruit of it yet on the other side.
Renee Endress: Yes, don't give up. There were so many times I was so close. It just felt like... I don't even know how to describe it, but to keep hoping and hoping and never seeing the change. And then all of those years later, you know, when I think back, it was like 18 years, really, of the running. It did gradually, gradually keep getting better but it was a long road.
Laura Dugger: Well, and that reminds me of a scripture. Proverbs is my favorite book of the Bible. In Proverbs 13:12, one translation says, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but when desire is fulfilled, it is a tree of life."
Renee Endress: Yes.
Laura Dugger: And praise God that those desires, those prayers were fulfilled. And I just envision little grandma and grandpa celebrating in heaven the day Andrea came to know the Lord as well.
Renee Endress: Yes. I had to picture that in my mind, too. [00:32:02]
Laura Dugger: You have been through so many trials and even more difficult that multiple things were happening at the same time where your marriage wasn't what you imagined or hoped it to be. You're struggling with a prodigal child. How did you combat the bitterness and resentment that can build from something like that?
Renee Endress: Yes. Well, I always remember that one of our ministers, he was actually an uncle of mine, and he preached quite often about how trials could make us bitter or better. I don't remember if it was him or if it was someone else, but definitely I've heard the story different places in sermons and maybe read it in books.
There's the story of an egg, a potato, and coffee grounds. So if you put each of those things into a pan of boiling water, the egg becomes hard, the potato becomes soft and sometimes mushy, but the coffee flavors the water and it turns it into something new and better. [00:33:07] And so I thought about that often.
I knew I didn't want these things to make me bitter. I didn't want to become hardened like that egg through my hard times, nor did I want to become soft and weak like the potato. So I just longed and prayed to be like the coffee, one who became better through the trials. So I just prayed my way through that, that God could help use those trials to make me better.
Laura Dugger: And it seems He certainly has.
One reoccurring scripture that comes up for The Savvy Sauce is James 1:22. It says, "Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." And because our tagline here is "Practical chats for intentional living," we want to hear how you are applying these messages to your own life. What action steps have you taken after hearing one of these podcasts that has improved your life a little bit? We would love to hear it. [00:34:05] Please email us at [email protected].
Well, we've covered a lot about parenting, and yet we haven't talked much about your work. You have created a business that I can't recommend highly enough. So I want you to let us all in on the goodness. Will you tell us about Grace Catering and your cookbooks?
Renee Endress: Sure. Okay, so the story kind of starts I started writing little mini cookbooks by hand when my younger sister and a few of my close friends got married.
So I wrote these little like 50 to 100 recipes of favorites of mine and little books handwritten for each of them. And after a while, I was like, "Okay, this is enough handwriting this. I'm going to send this to the publisher. I'm going to publish these recipes, and then I'll just give them for wedding gifts for the rest of my life."
So my first cookbook, I think I had around 200 recipes in it, and I sent it to the publisher and printed, I think, 200 copies. [00:35:09] And I thought that'll last me seriously the rest of my life for wedding gifts.
And all of a sudden, people started finding out about these, and they liked these recipes because they were made with common ingredients that most of us have in our pantries at home. And they just tasted like good home cooking, I guess. So they started selling, and they sold, and they sold. So I had to keep reprinting and reprinting.
And after a while, I made a second cookbook and then a third cookbook. And then I combined all three of those into one cookbook and added some more recipes. So that one has about 1,000 recipes in it.
So now I think I've sold about 16,000, roughly, cookbooks altogether. So, yeah, that little idea back when Tammy got married kind of changed my life.
And because of this, then people started asking me to cater about 10 years ago. I guess they assumed if I wrote cookbooks, I must be an okay cook. So it was definitely a God thing, though, because it was right at the time that my marriage ended in separation, and I needed to start providing some income. [00:36:15]
So God knew that, of course, and He opened the doors, and jobs just started falling into my lap. And by word of mouth... At first it was just friends and family asking me to cater wedding receptions for them. And then business just grew and grew by word of mouth, and it became almost full-time.
So, like I said, that was about 10 years ago. And then, let me see, it was in the fall of 2019. It was earlier that year, I had started thinking, "I really need to make the decision whether I want to keep building this business and find a place that I can make a licensed kitchen." Because up until then, I was just totally doing it from my kitchen at home.
So I needed to, if I wanted to keep going, come up with a commercial kitchen somehow. Otherwise, it was like, okay, it's kind of the go big or go home, but I didn't know what else I was going to do. [00:37:14]
So, I started praying about finding a building that I could use for a commercial kitchen. One day, I drove by this cute little building on the north edge of Peoria, and it was just such a great location. As soon as I saw it... it was a building I had noticed before. It was always just kind of an iconic little building at this weird little five-way stop sign there. And it just needed a lot of TLC, but I thought it would be the perfect location for what I was wanting to do.
And so, God opened the doors for me to buy that building. And so, fall of 2019, I bought this little building and started coming up with plans to turn it into my commercial kitchen. Then I was tossing around different ideas too, how I could supplement my catering income just to help make that building pay for itself. I thought of different ideas of, I didn't want to do a restaurant because that was too full-time. I thought about a tea room or, you know, different things like that. [00:38:15]
But I landed on the idea of doing Take N' Bake meals for your refrigerators and freezers. So, that's what I decided I was going to do with that little shop, make it into a commercial kitchen with a storefront where people could come in and buy Take N' Bake meals.
Then, as we were planning and working on the blueprints, COVID hit, and everything came to a screeching halt. So, that taught me a lot of patience because it was the very day that I was supposed to meet with the health department to get my permits for going ahead with this kitchen. The health department got closed down by COVID that day. And they couldn't do anything, even by email or anything, the entire time. I think they were shut down for at least three months, and we couldn't work on anything.
Then, they were so backed up when they opened back up. So, it just required a lot of patience. But I just had to keep believing that if this was all God's will, it was in His timing, and for some reason, the timing was right. [00:39:20] And I am glad it helped me to be able to really do a lot of organizational things and, during COVID, spend some special time with my kids before I got so busy with this new business.
So then, in July of 2021, we were finally able to open our doors. Business has taken off from day one just much more than I ever expected. So, from the beginning, almost within a few weeks, we had to shut our doors early different times and close down for a day or two because we just couldn't keep up for the demand for these meals. So, it was kind of crazy.
I knew there was a need for it out there, but I just didn't know quite how much. So, I hired more workers. In the beginning, I thought, Mm, maybe three people would probably be enough employees for me. And now, I'm up to somewhere around 15 right now, I believe.
And then, we just put more efficient systems in place over time. So, yeah, it's going great now, and I am just so thankful that God opened those doors. [00:40:21]
So, we have our meals are on a six-week rotation right now for the Take N' Bake meals. So, most things just come around once every six weeks, so people don't have a chance to get bored of them. But then, some of our most popular items we make either weekly or every other week.
Then, besides that, I cater something just about every weekend. This last weekend, I catered two weddings, which was a little extra crazy. But I just love to see the way that others use Grace Catering Company to bless other people's lives, too.
It's so fun to hear people's stories as they come in the door and tell me that they're taking these meals to bless the lives of someone who has cancer or someone who had a new baby. Or there's a sweet older couple who comes in there a lot, and they buy meals to take to young widows and their families. So, it does my heart good to be able to see these meals going to bless other people's lives. [00:41:20]
Laura Dugger: I just have to follow up with a few things. It's so neat to hear the whole story laid out. I didn't know the origins with Tammy's wedding, but it is our family's favorite cookbook, and we have used this for so many years. We've shared it with many people. It is just the best.
So when you said some of your meals you keep on a weekly rotation, what would you say are some of the most popular at Grace Catering?
Renee Endress: One of the things we do almost every single week are our breakfast burritos. People just love those because they're so convenient to just grab one or two out of the freezer and pop them in the microwave or the oven. So, we make those almost every single week.
Then we make lasagna really often because lasagna is just a good standby. Chicken enchiladas come around pretty often. People love that. But we have a lot of them... The popularity of different things just kind of grows over time. So, in the wintertime, one of my managers makes chicken pot pies, and they're so popular, especially in the wintertime. And so, she makes those about every other week. [00:42:26]
Recently, one that has just started gaining more and more popularity is spasagna, which is kind of funny. People are just discovering that. Just in the last couple weeks, we had so many orders for spasagna.
And then another favorite in there is grandma's spaghetti, which is kind of a fun story because that was my mother-in-law's trademark recipe. So, that's one that I got from her. She never wrote it down, but she let me watch her make her spaghetti. So, I tried to kind of figure it out. She never knew exactly amounts. She just threw in this and that. So, I tried to figure it out from there, and that one's been very popular. So, lots of popular things.
Laura Dugger: They're so delicious. I see why they're popular. Is this something that you've always enjoyed, tinkering in the kitchen? You had a large family, so you had a lot of opinions to feed, especially working on the farm all day, they'd come in hungry.
Renee Endress: Yes, exactly. So, I look back, and I always think, when did my love of cooking start? I think definitely it was there when I was a little girl, and I just never even really picked up on it. [00:43:30] So, I would do these meals. I would rope Tammy into doing these meals with me. I'd just boss her around in the kitchen. And we'd do a special, like, five- or six-course meal for Grandpa and Grandma's anniversary or things like that. And I had so much fun with that.
And then Mom, as much as she was a very good cook, but it was kind of the same basic things over and over that she liked to make. She didn't experiment a lot, and she wasn't a baker. I just loved homemade baked goods. So, I wanted to learn to bake.
So, I got out the Betty Crocker cookbook and learned how to bake crescent rolls by myself from the Betty Crocker cookbook. And I also look back... Back in those days, I don't know if you remember, we had a Bookmobile that came to our neighborhood.
Laura Dugger: Loved the Bookmobile.
Renee Endress: Yes, it was so much fun. Every week, we would climb up the hill to go to the bookmobile, and I oftentimes would check out kids' cookbooks. And I would plan these elaborate parties for all the kids in our neighborhood. And then they never came to fruition. [00:44:31] But I had fun planning them and looking through the cookbooks and seeing what I could make.
So, it was there. God had put it there in me from the time I was little, but I just didn't really realize it. But then, as my kids came along, and thankfully, the older kids were not picky eaters at all... And so, I loved. It was one of my most cherished things to do as a housewife was to cook meals and come up with fun things to put on the table. And I loved seeing them just enjoy what I set on the table in front of them.
Laura Dugger: Well, many people have enjoyed what you've set on the table for them. And like you said, you had two weddings this past weekend. You told me before we pressed record, you've had over 1,000 people this weekend, which just sounds miraculous.
Then I'm just thinking of your obedience where God was dropping those little seeds, even as a child, when you were drawn to cooking and how that has blessed so many other people. I think of us for tonight, because this is my workday. I get to record. [00:45:31] And so, we already have dinner that's tucked away in the refrigerator. I just have to put it in the oven.
But this weekend, Selah, Shiloh, Aila, and Kessler all helped me use your cookbook and we made chicken enchiladas, number three. And they were all learning how to do that. And we get to enjoy that for dinner tonight. So, I think your obedience is even inspirational to others that you may have no idea what kind of inspiration you've provided to them.
Renee Endress: Aw. I love seeing that, that you and your girls are cooking together in the kitchen. And it's even fun that it's out of my cookbook. So, thank you. Thank you for saying that.
Laura Dugger: Well, you know that we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So, as my final question for you today, Renee, what is your savvy sauce?
Renee Endress: Okay. So, this is especially for the parents of prodigals. But it goes for so many other things in life, too. So many hard situations. I know there are so many. Everybody has their own hard situation at some point in their life. [00:46:33]
So, my savvy sauce is never give up. Never lose hope. Never stop praying. And always remember, God loves to redeem our muddiest stories and create beauty from ashes. He is the God of miracles.
Laura Dugger: Amen. Well, Renee, you are just such an endearing person. So lovable, not just because you're my aunt, but I love you. And you are talented and kind. You also have a wonderful sense of humor and a deep, abiding faith. So, I adore you, and I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Renee Endress: Thank you. And I adore you, too, Laura.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. [00:47:37]
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:48:41]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John. [00:49:39]
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
236 Stories Series: God's Power and Light with Jaime Farrell
12 Aug· The Savvy Sauce
236. Stories Series: God's Power and Light with Jaime Farrell
**Transcription Below**
John 3:30 (NIV) " He must become greater; I must become less.”
Jaime Farrell is first of all, a beloved of her Lord. She is also wife to Jonathan, and mother to Jorja, Jolie, Jemma, and Job. She can be reached through Instagram or Facebook and she would also love to invite you to sit with her at church! Find out more about the church where her family attends and her husband serves as Lead Pastor at gracemorton.org.
Questions we discuss:
As an adult now, when you reflect back on your childhood, what was it that specifically made the most significant impact on you and your faith journey?
Now as a wife and mom of four, what values and traditions and rhythms have you carried forward in your family?
Since becoming a Jesus-follower, what ways have you continued to see God at work, in ways both big and small?
Other Episodes mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
#2 From 2022: Fresh Take on Hospitality with Jaime Farrell
Patreon 48 Conversations with Your Teen About Sex, Puberty, and Identity with Janelle Rupp (Interview with Jaime's Sister)
Patreon 43 Better Together with Jon and Jolene Rocke (Interview with Jaime's Parents)
Recommended Books and Series for Tween/Teens:
This Changes Everything: How the Gospel Transforms The Teen Years by Jaquelle Crowe
Choosing Love by Heidi Johnston
God's Great Story Devotional by Jon Nielson
Lies Young Women Believe and The Truth That Sets Them Free by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Dannah Gresh
10 Questions Every Teen Should Ask (and Answer) About Christianity by Rebecca McLaughlin
Truth Matters by Andreas J. Kosstenberger
The Case for Christianity by C.S. Lewis
The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Timothy Keller
Fiction:
Mark of the Lion Series by Francine Rivers
The Rendigo Tales J.A. Meyer
The Epic Order of the Seven Series
Allegories:
The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan
Hinds Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard
Other Book Mentioned:
When People are Big and God is Small by Edward T. Welch
Little Pilgrim's Progress by Erik M. Peterson
Food Recommendations and Recipes for Hosting:
*Reach out to Jaime for Rocke's "Essential" Seasoning through Instagram or Facebook.*
Pretzel Cereal Crunch from Taste of Home (Optional: add MnMs)
Ranch Snack Mix from Taste of Home (Optional: replace cashews with Cheese-itz and Rice Chex)
Cookies and Creme Puppy Chow from Sally's Baking Addiction
Red Velvet Oreo Brownies from Sally Baking Addiction
Cookie Dough Bars from The Recipe Critic
Salted Caramel Cookie Bars from Brown-Eyed Baker
Frosted Sugar Cookie Bars from Brown-Eyed Baker
Recipes:
Joy's Dip:
Mix together:
1 block Velveeta
2 cans Hormel Chili No Beans
Several Dashes of Worcestershire Sauce
Honey Mix:
⅔ cup butter
1 ½ cup brown sugar
½ cup honey
Combine in a sauce pan. Do not stir! Boil 2 ½ minutes. Add 1 tsp of vanilla.
Pour over 6 cups of Crispix, 2 cups mini pretzels 1 cup salted peanuts.
Put into a greased baking sheet and bake at 250 for ½ hour stirring half way through. Pour onto wax paper to dry. Break apart.
Candy Bar Bars- Freeze Halloween Candy Bars/Chocolate
2 ½ sticks of butter
¾ cup sugar
¾ cup brown sugar
2 eggs
1 tsp. Vanilla
1 tsp salt
2 ¼ cup flour
1 tsp baking soda
1 cup chocolate chips
Cream butter and sugar together. Add eggs and vanilla.
Add the dry ingredients and mix well. Add in chocolate chips.
Grease a jelly roll pan and spread dough. It may be hard to do but keep patting and spreading.
Bake at 375 for 15-20 minutes. It will be golden brown. Cool completely.
*Cut candy bars while cooling. Cut into small bits and bites. Any type of bar/chocolate works!!
Melt 1 ½ cup chocolate chips and 1 ½ cup peanut butter in a microwave slowly. Spread over the bars and immediately sprinkle with cut candy bars- always end the top with M&Ms for color!
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sue Neihouser
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Thank you to the Sue Neihouser team for sponsoring this episode. If you're looking to buy or sell a home this season, make sure you reach out to Sue at (309) 229-8831. Sue would love to walk alongside you as you unlock new doors.
My friend Jaimie Farrell is my returning guest. You may remember her from the second most downloaded Episode of 2022 when we discussed her fresh take on hospitality.
Well today, Jaimie is returning to share her testimony and memorable moments of God revealing His goodness in her life. Our conversation took a few surprising turns. So the first half is really practical and revolves a lot around parenting, and then the second half is when she dives into some spiritual moments that leave us in tears and leave us in awe of God. [00:01:25]
So we hope it nudges you to also look up and recognize His goodness, kindness, and love that's evident daily in your life as well.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Jaimie.
Jaime Farrell: Thank you so very much. It's so fun to be here with you.
Laura Dugger: Well, if anybody didn't go back yet and listened to our first episode together, can you just start by giving us some context into your life? You can go back and even begin with your upbringing.
Jaime Farrell: Yeah. Honestly, my upbringing is such a gift of grace in my life that I love to just share about it. So I was born to two kids, in a sense. My parents were married at 18. In fact, they were married three weeks after my dad turned 18. Then nine months later, they had their first daughter, my sister.
Prior to marriage, my parents were both individually pursuing the Lord, and then together in oneness, they continued to prioritize the Word of God as their central authority. [00:02:27] This led them to leave the family business that my dad was going to supposedly take over. Instead, he went to pursue a Bible degree, with the dream of him being in ministry in some capacity. So they went to Grace Seminary in Winona Lake, Indiana, and that is where I was born.
My parents were dirt poor, and my dad was in school full-time. He worked at a grocery store as he could. My mom cleaned as she was able, but she was managing two girls. We rented a house with no air conditioning and an alley for a backyard.
Times were hard and lean, but I have just beautiful childhood memories of playing in the alley with neighborhood kids and making chocolate milk out of dirt and water, and then also feeding bread to ducks at the lake across the street.
And then graduation neared for my parents, and they found out they were expecting for the third time, which was my brother. So they kind of came to grips that the wisest financial move was to move back to Morton, Illinois, and have my dad work again at the family company to try to pay off debt, save money, get in a better financial position as their family was growing. [00:03:37]
So when I was about four, we moved back to Morton, and essentially I've been here ever since. And now, ironically, in fact, my husband is the pastor of the church that I grew up in.
Laura Dugger: That is incredible. It's been so fun to enter your story. When we were in our 30s is when we first met. And now I will have to do a lot of links because I have had your sister and your parents on the podcast as well. But you are all wonderful.
But now that you're an adult, when you do reflect back on your childhood, what would you say were some of the things that specifically made the most significant impact on you and your faith journey?
Jaime Farrell: My parents, they were a massive influence on me. The older I get, the more I realize what a gift of grace they were to me in my life. They were always set apart in their gospel living. Obviously, without the Lord loving them first, they never would have turned to Him. But His faithful pursuit of them individually and together was lived out in their faithful following of Him. [00:04:42]
They were wise beyond their years because they were saturating themselves with His word. They often said that they were growing up alongside us. So asking for forgiveness and being quick to repent was normal in our house. Truly, the gospel was lived out before my very eyes. They loved each other. Oh, how they loved each other. As a kid, it was kind of, too, like a sickening amount. And even to this day, it sometimes feels like they can't function without each other. But they never stopped being high school sweethearts.
I saw them serve in the church. My mom led the kids choir. My dad was a Sunday school teacher. They both served as coaches for a Bible quiz program. They would say that primarily my mom served in programs her kids participated in. And that was such a blessing to me as a young kid.
Both my parents are incredibly musical. My dad formed an acapella singing group of five guys called Pentella. And they did covers of songs by the group Acapella. But then my dad also wrote songs, and they produced their own album in the end. [00:05:47] My mom ran sound for that group with another one of the guys' wives. And that group was also incredibly instrumental.
The biblical truths that were set to music really did sink deep into my heart. And then the fellowship of just gathering with other families for practices and attending concerts. And then even as kids, we got to participate on a song. So that was all awesome.
So many of their choices and how they lived and the ways they served, the Lord used all that to shape me spiritually and instill a foundation of who He was as Savior and Lord to me personally. Through them, I saw unconditional love and grace and wisdom and forgiveness and joy in Jesus.
Then also my home church was instrumental. As a kid, I participated in our kids' choir, which was often over 100 kids. Still to this day, I firmly believe that singing God's truth is invaluable for our souls.
Then I got to be a teenager, and I participated in our Bible quiz program where we learned the word of God. [00:06:51] This program got me studying God's word, aiming for memorization of it, but it was also incredibly fun and totally spoke to my competitive nature. I learned biblical literacy and systematic theology, which are big words, and I had no idea I was learning those through quiz, but now looking back as an adult, I see that I did.
Both of these programs, learning to sing God's truth through song as a kid, and then directly learning His truth through Bible quiz as a 7th through 12th grader, those were mightily used by the Lord to pursue me and draw me to Himself.
But in answering this question, I also just need to make clear that our church wasn't perfect. There were things we, and I wished that we could change, as it wasn't like every single one of our preferences were being met. Youth group was not always easy for me. But my parents had demonstrated what faithfulness and longevity in a local church that's being faithful to the gospel looks like. They demonstrated what that meant, and so we, I persevered. [00:07:52]
I was grown and sanctified because of the church I grew up in, and I'm so thankful for God's pursuit of me through that body of believers. Then I also need to circle back around and say that our family, me specifically, isn't perfect. I just want to make sure I make that disclaimer clear.
I have always been an envelope pusher. I am stubborn. I am proud. I'm judgmental. I believe I'm right pretty much all of the time. I struggle with anger most definitely. I have quite the winning combination of sinfulness. And I wish I could say that all of those are past sins, but many of those are still present. I'm daily dependent on the Lord for His sanctification in my life.
As a teen tween, I especially struggled with identity. I've never been a small skinny person, and I envied those who were. I longed for people's approval, and I constantly felt like I was falling short.
As a middle child, belonging was always something I wrestled with. [00:08:53] My mom had my sister, and they were close. My dad had his one and only son. And with every turn, it felt like I was always the third wheel.
So with all of these feelings and emotions, and without the maturity to really even understand them, or even the tools to manage them, I lashed out in anger and I took liberties on the ones who loved me most. I lashed out at my siblings, and I most definitely lashed out at my mom.
But my family never gave up on me. They loved me unconditionally. And my mom has told me since, and this is just so wise and good for anyone with kids, where a relationship with them is especially challenging. She said she always knew all of my passion could be used for the Lord. And she desired not to break it, but simply bend it.
My dad repeatedly told me growing up that our greatest strength can also be our greatest weakness. So as I struggled with sin, which impacted our relationship, my parents pointed me to Jesus. [00:09:57] They refused to let me die in my sin, and they faithfully called me to repentance and heart change through hard correction. Yet they also extended grace as they were sinners themselves, and they could relate to the need for a Savior and a Lord of their own lives. They loved me fiercely and unconditionally, and never stopped pursuing a relationship with me.
My mom read The Five Love Languages during the time when her and I were really struggling, and that book was instrumental in changing how she approached me. And then I remember my dad would just so patiently listen late at night as I was spewing hateful remarks against his wife, and his verbal response would consistently be slow and wise and laced with grace and understanding.
This is what I remember of childhood. And what is so incredible is that now as I see it as an adult looking back, I see my parents and my influences fading and the Lord just being magnified. It was His faithful pursuit of me, and He used all of these things as instruments to draw my heart to love Him because He first loved me. [00:11:00]
Laura Dugger: Wow, there's so much that stands out in that. First of all, just knowing you, such a close family now that they are some of your best friends.
Jaime Farrell: Totally.
Laura Dugger: And yet looking back, I think there are so many pieces of encouragement for those who are parents alongside of us listening right now that you said when I asked what was most influential, they were not just focused on you kids. You said first that most influential was their relationship with the Lord, and then with one another in their marriage, and then the practicals too of just having conversations with you and doing life with you. We always hear more is caught than taught. But as you reflected back, you really modeled that, so that was very encouraging.
Now you are a wife and also a mom of four. So what values and traditions and rhythms have you carried forward in your own family? [00:12:01]
Jaime Farrell: Yeah, I have told this to my parents several times, but I truly just long to follow their example and really just try to repeat what they did. So growing up, vacations were important. And I've already said my parents were poor, but my grandparents who owned the family company owned a condo in Florida as well.
Each year we would get to go as a family of five and use that gift of free lodging and have time away. Now we always drove our own van. We packed ham and cheese sandwiches for the drive. We cooked all our meals there. But we had dedicated family vacation time.
And Team Ferrell is trying to replicate that ourselves. There is no more grandparents' condo we can use for free, though. But whether it's a weekend away or a full week of vacation, we strive to prioritize time together outside the walls of our home to connect and refresh relationships with each other.
Also, when we were young, my mom had a prayer group of moms who met together and would pray for each other and for their families. [00:13:01] And I did this same thing when my kids were young. And though hers is still going and mine isn't because everyone else moved away on me, just prioritizing the power of prayer was something I saw modeled and something we try to emulate as well.
So my girls are aware that I had a prayer group when they were young, but now prayer looks like prayer time in the car as we taxi drive, prayer as we have hard conversations at the start and at the finish. Prayer around meals, bedtime. Prayers as you unload the dishwasher. Prayers just sprinkled throughout the day.
Then I've already mentioned how my mom served in church in areas where her kids were involved in, and this has been valuable to replicate as well. But additionally, growing up, my parents made sure our home was a gathering place for us and our friends.
They sacrificed friendships themselves to foster friendships for us. They saved up to put a half-basketball court in our backyard and were always willing to host our friends. My mom gladly cooked and made sure there was delicious food for all who came. [00:14:01]
Team Ferrell really is just trying to replicate this hospitality too, as well as prioritizing our kids' friendships above our own at this stage in our lives.
Team Ferrell is also trying to carry forward faithfulness to a faith-filled gospel community of believers. Again, church isn't perfect for us or for our kids right now, and it never will be here on earth, but we persevere with our family of believers and stay engaged and involved because that's what family does. We will not neglect meeting together to encourage one another as long as the day approaches.
Specifically, my parents had us sitting smack in the front of church growing up, and you can find Team Ferrell sitting smack in the front of church every week. And this totally is not my nature. I'm a back-row, balcony kind of girl. In every college class, I sat as far back as possible.
But church is different. I want my kids to see and participate and feel connected. And for us, that just can't happen from the back and on the fringe. [00:15:03] So we open ourselves up to our body of believers, and we love them, and they love us in all of the good, bad, and the ugly.
And then lastly, communication. There's a couple things my parents did in regards to communication that, looking back, I see are so wise, and something we try to replicate.
First, my parents would often invite us to speak into decisions. And now, as an adult, I totally see how they did this. It wasn't that they were asking for our help in making decisions by any means, and it wasn't that their minds weren't already made up. But they allowed us to be heard and express our opinions, and I definitely felt valued because of that.
Whether it was things happening in the family business or whether it was family dynamics, we would sit down together and we would talk. For my family now, we call ourselves Team Ferrell. When Jonathan and I were in Louisville for a seminary degree, the mentor I had for parenting told me the importance of giving your family a nickname, just something to unite yourselves around and that feels special for your people. [00:16:03] We are not overly creative, so we love sports, so we just went with Team Ferrell.
So we often call team meetings when we sit down and talk something through. And so often Jonathan and I already have a plan, an idea of how things are going to go, but we still enjoy hearing perspective from our kids and for them to feel kind of like an MVP on the team. So I loved that as a kid then, and I love it now.
Then secondly, when it comes to communication, for this season of life that we are in as Team Ferrell with older kids, Jorja is 17, Jolie is 15, Jemma is 13, and Job is 10, I find myself becoming my dad and asking "why" a lot. I find it super ironic that when my kids were little, they were the ones asking why, and now as they're older, I'm the one asking them why.
Jolie just got some further ear piercings, and in that process, she expressed her considering getting her nose pierced one day. [00:17:04] And immediately it brought me back to high school when I told my dad I wanted to get a tattoo, and he simply responded calmly with "why".
It was just what they did often. They didn't argue or give a lecture immediately or give a sermon from their perspective. Whenever I would share something with them, like a thought or an idea or even a conclusion I had made, they would just ask a question, why? And it would just probe me.
Why do you want that tattoo, Jaimie? Why do you want to listen to Celine Dion and Mariah Carey? Those were the divas of my day. Why do you want to hang out with that group of people? So I find myself asking why a whole heap these days, like my parents often ask me. You know, I did eventually get that tattoo and a few others, but it wasn't until I was 40.
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Laura Dugger: You have such an abundance of great book recommendations, especially for tweens and teens. Then also, like you said, there's that theme of hospitality. That's what we talked about last time on The Savvy Sauce. And you have great ideas for food to feed a crowd.
I think this fits in well with, as we're discussing even parenting here, because we are raising our children as tech natives. The access to technology is all around. And so there's certain things that I think we're all doing to try and minimize. But we also need to replace it. [00:21:15] And I think of our RO box that is upstairs that is such a good visual prompt to put away the technology.
But then instead, to not be in a vacuum where you just take something away, but to put something good in. And I think reading and family time and hospitality are great things to put in. And they also help us naturally train character in our children.
So I'd love to hear maybe your top 10 in both of these areas. And then I can link to these book titles and recipes in the show notes. But Jaimie, what are your maybe top 10 recommendations for character-shaping tween teen books and some of your favorite snack mixes or desserts or meals for feeding a crowd?
Jaime Farrell: Yeah, it's just such a great question. One of the things we do on kids' birthdays is gift them a privilege, as you've seen them grow in fruit that past year. [00:22:17] Typically around 13, it's the gift of privilege of staying up later and working through a book. And it's been mom because it's the girls. We've had three girls and then Job. So it's been mom, but working through a book. Again, while this hasn't been perfectly, and it takes us sometimes forever to get through a book, it's still something we've tried to practice.
So I wanted to give some of the books that we either have read with our girls or are in the process of reading with our girls. And these are great for tween teen books.
First is This Changes Everything: How the Gospel Transforms the Teen Years. That's by Jaquelle Crowe.
Then secondly, Choosing Love is something we're about to start with Georgia right now, who's 17. That's by Heidi Johnston.
God's Great Story Devotional by Jon Nielson. That's one that we haven't read together, but that's a devotional book that your teen can be doing.
Lies Young Women Believe: And the Truth that Sets Them Free. That's by Nancy Wolgemuth and Dannah Gresh. That's what we're reading with Jemma right now. [00:23:25]
10 Questions Every Teen Should Ask (and Answer) about Christianity by Rebecca McLaughlin.
Truth Matters by Andreas J. Köstenberger. That was what we've just given to Jolie. We've read that with Georgia. It's such a great small but digestible book.
And then just two small books that are short. One is The Case for Christianity by C.S. Lewis. That's definitely for older teens. It's mentally deep, and that's one that you should read together with your teen just so that they can help process it, but so important.
If your kid is not a reader, sometimes you need those little, thin, but super powerful. The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Tim Keller is so good.
And then I wanted to include a couple fiction books for this stage. Francine Rivers' A Voice in the Wind series for teens is excellent.
The Rwendigo Tales by J. A. Myhre for tweens is great. [00:24:31]
And then two allegories that I think allegories in the story is so powerful. Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan and Hinds' Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard.
Laura Dugger: Okay, I love all of that so much. I also want to add one that was recommended. I guess maybe it's for slightly younger, but it could be for tween age group. But this book series that Shiloh right now is devouring, The Epic Order of the Seven.
Jaime Farrell: Max and Liz, they are the best. And I almost included these on here, but they are... my kids read them a little bit... I wanted to do a little bit older, but those books are so fantastic to give you the whole overarching picture of the Bible. The whole story from start to finish. It's a fantastic series. Unmissable.
Laura Dugger: And I had never heard of them, and so it has greatly benefited our family. If people are looking for even younger, Little Pilgrim's Progress is such a great read-aloud as well.
Jaime Farrell: So good. [00:25:32]
Laura Dugger: So go ahead and you can share recipes or snacks or desserts you recommend for a crowd too.
Jaime Farrell: So then when we are having people or hosting, we love to do Joy's Dip. As I talked earlier about those, that Pentella group that my dad started singing, Joy's Dip is a dip that Joy, one of the wives, brought to almost every practice. And we still make that all the time. That is a go-to recipe.
Honey Mix, my mom... that is from my mom. I had a friend from high school message me on Facebook and say, "I remember this Honey Mix that your mom used to make, and can you give me that recipe?" So my mom's Honey Mix is always something we have in our freezer.
Candy Bar Bars, this is a recipe from a friend. It uses up Halloween candy. So if you have all of your Halloween chocolate, stick it in the freezer, and then use this recipe for all of that chocolate. [00:26:38] I make those for Georgia, her basketball team, they love those so much. So Candy Bar Bars using your Halloween candy.
Pretzel Cereal Crunch, that's a Taste of Home recipe. We add M&Ms to that, just a little disclaimer. Then there's a Ranch Snack Mix that we use from Taste of Home. We do not put the cashews in, and we add things like Cheez-Its and Rice Checks to that as well. But that is a snack mix that I even throw in my freezer and bust out for when teens come over.
Cookies and Cream Puppy Chow from Sally's Baking Addiction. Red Velvet Oreo Brownies from Sally's Baking Addiction. Cookie Dough Bars from The Recipe Critic. And then Salted Caramel Cookie Bars and Frosted Sugar Cookie Bars from Brown Eyed Baker.
As you can see, I like bars because you can feed a whole heap of people with those, and cut them small, and they're great.
Laura Dugger: Okay, now I'm hungry, and that all sounds amazing. [00:27:37] But I'm just thinking, as you're talking, we're missing a huge one that I was not aware of until we were living in your parents' basement as our home had some renovations. And you sell it now nationwide.
Jaime Farrell: Oh, yes!
Laura Dugger: The Yankees Seasoning. So can you share about that? It was the best-kept Morton secret.
Jaime Farrell: Yeah, I totally would love to share about that because anybody could still get that from me. So I talked about my parents' family business, and one of the things from that family business that my dad developed was this seasoning. He had a steak seasoning and a barbecue seasoning, and we still do the steak seasoning.
Actually, I'm in the process of... I even want to change that name to not steak seasoning, but essential seasoning because it is good on everything. I don't know how to roast vegetables without it. I put it on vegetables. I put it on all my potatoes, all my meat. We do a lot of salmon and tilapia in our house, and I put it on my fish. I don't know how to season without it. [00:28:39] Whenever something says salt and pepper, I use Rocke steak seasoning.
So if you would ever like a bottle, just reach out to me. I can get you a bottle. So it is fantastic.
Laura Dugger: I'm telling you, we keep multiple bottles on hand now because you don't ever want to be out of this once you've experienced it.
Jaime Farrell: I took it over from selling it for my parents because I need it in my life. And I kept running out, and they weren't making it fast enough. So I said, I'm going to go for that.
Laura Dugger: Well, and then, truly, can you give us the best way to reach out to you if anybody does want to try this?
Jaime Farrell: Yeah. It's on Instagram, at Rocke Seasoning, but I would say that I'm just delving into it. But you can either find me on Facebook or Instagram and truly just ask for a bottle. It is $6 for a bottle, or you can get a box of six bottles for $30. I can either drop it to you. I've done that before, or people pick it up from my porch. It's that easy.
And, oh, we do ship nationally. So it's totally fine if you don't live in Illinois or near Morton. We can ship it to you. [00:29:42]
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We'll link to that as well. But Rocke is spelled R-O-C-K-E when you're searching.
I want to take a moment to say thank you. You are the reason our team gets to delight in this work. And we appreciate each of you so very much. If you're benefiting from the lessons learned and applied from The Savvy Sauce, would you take a minute to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts?
Five-star ratings and reviews help us reach more people around the globe, and that promotes our goal of sharing joy. So join us in that endeavor with your valuable feedback. Thanks again for being here with us.
Well, Jaimie, let's also just start to hone in on your spiritual journey. So will you share how God drew you into a loving and personal relationship with Him?
Jaime Farrell: I love that you state the question like this, that you start that it's God who draws us into loving relationship with Him. [00:30:43] He's the one who loves us first and who pursues us, and it is His act that changes our heart.
It's not anything my parents did. I've listed a whole heap of things, but there's also kids who grew up in Pentella as well, and there's kids from Kids Choir and kids from Bible Quiz who don't walk with Jesus. So there is not a formula that draws you into loving relationship. It's God does the work in your heart. So I can't emphasize that enough.
But as I've already shared, God used my parents and God used my local church to draw me to Himself. I confessed my need of Him as a Savior around six, and I distinctly remember desiring Him as Lord of my life when I was around 13. And then I've been in the process of sanctification ever since.
Laura Dugger: Thank you so much. It is always just encouraging to hear other people's testimonies and God's creative individual work in each of our lives.
Jaime Farrell: It's a passionate pursuit. [00:31:46]
Laura Dugger: Well, since becoming a Jesus follower, what ways have you continued to see God at work in ways that are both big and small?
Jaime Farrell: So the Word tells us in Joshua 3 that as the Israelites crossed the Jordan River that the Lord had parted for them to walk through. One person from each tribe was to collect a rock that they could stack as a memorial of remembrance of the event. It literally says "so that when your children ask you in due time, what do these stones mean?, you will tell them about the waters of the Jordan being split so the Ark of the Covenant could pass."
I believe each of us have rocks that we can point to and say, Here's evidence of God at work in my life. Here's when I know He was changing me and growing me in my understanding of Him. Basically, like here's where I know He renewed my mind, right? It's where we see Him changing our thinking. I could sit here for quite a while sharing my rocks, but I want to just share a few of my past rocks. [00:32:54]
One was when I was young, it was what actually sparked my desire to even be baptized. At that point in time, I switched schools and moved from public to private school. And I've already shared the depth of my sin nature, and the importance of this decision to switch schools was monumental for me, but not in the way you might think.
Switching schools didn't solve my sin problem. It wasn't that the changing of my circumstances was going to fix my irritability or my anger or my envy or my pursuit of people's perception of me. It was deciding in my heart that I'm going to follow Jesus and love Him with all of my being, no matter what school environment I am in. Going to private school helped me see that sin is rampant no matter what environment I'm in and my need for Jesus as both Savior and Lord was the same everywhere I went.
Another rock for me was in college. I read a book, When People are Big and God is Small. And I believe beyond the Bible this should be required reading for all people. [00:34:00] I shared earlier my sin struggles of envy and people-pleasing and their perception of me and wanting to belong to groups beyond just Jesus. And the Lord really did a number on my heart in college with those struggles through the reading of this book.
I finally laid down the root of minimizing God and maximizing people. And that's really just Romans 1 right there, the worshiping and serving created things, rather than the creator who is forever praised. Amen.
Laura Dugger: That's what Romans 1 says.
Jaime Farrell: In my journey of sanctification, that was just a massive gift of grace to learn to delight in the bigness of God first and foremost.
And then I'd love to share two more recent rocks when God shifted my thinking, when He changed me that slight degree, just that one degree of glory, and grew me in my understanding of Him.
One was nearly a year into our marriage. I had gotten a job teaching fourth grade at a private school in Louisville, Kentucky. And for months, I was coming home hoarse and with no voice left. [00:35:06] And for a long time, I chalked it up to I am just a loud person. I'm projecting all day long, so I'm just straining my vocal cords.
Also, I had noticed that by the end of the day, even swallowing was starting to feel uncomfortable. But again, I chalked that up to the strain of my voice and really believed that just once my voice got used to the daily extra speaking, it would just go back to normal and be fine.
Well, at the end of one school day, a mom of one of my students pointed to my throat and said it looked like I had a baseball in my throat. And I touched my neck for the first time and sure enough, I had a huge ball protruding out.
Why I had not noticed it, I have no idea. But the moment I looked in the mirror, there was no denying it. I had a mass on my throat that was clearly visible. So we went to the doctor, and they ordered a biopsy of the lump. And mercifully, the biopsy came back clear, no cancer but the lump was significant in size. [00:36:08] The doctor was recommending surgery to remove the lump along with most of my right thyroid.
However, before surgery, he called Jonathan and I to discuss the risks. There was a high risk of damage to my vocal cords. Now, I love music. And as you've already heard, my parents instilled that in me. And singing was something I have loved since I was young.
My family was always singing. My dad taught me to match my voice to those divas I loved listening to. He taught me to aim for, quote-unquote, ear candy. I was a music minor in college and I was serving at our church in Louisville as part of our choir and worship team.
So when the doctor communicated that speaking would not be affected, but singing could be, it stopped me in my tracks. Did I really want to do this surgery and risk being able to sing?
As we prayed about it, I was wrestling with the Lord. [00:37:11] This surgery, in many ways, felt necessary. I was more than uncomfortable with this baseball in my throat. The pressure was becoming painful and it was impacting my ability to do my teaching job well.
But to do surgery and risk not being able to sing? I mean, that was like what I was known for. That's what I found notoriety and significance in. And in the wrestling with the Lord, he was teaching me that I had found my identity in what I did, not in who I was. And this is something I should have already learned.
You see, my dad had told us every single time we walked out of the door, remember who you are and whose you are. And this is something we have carried to our kids, too. And when you have a moment, just think about how that phrase, remember who you are and whose you are, truly roots your identity in truth.
It's huge, and it's vital for ourselves and our kids to hear again and again and again. [00:38:15] And I had heard that over and over growing up, and now I was needing to apply that.
Yes, the Lord had given the gift of song, but I was far more in love and attached to the gift than I was to the giver. He had revealed my Isaac, so to speak. Was I willing to sacrifice that, even that, if He asked?
So convinced that this is what he was asking me, we went ahead with surgery. And when I got out, the surgeon said, removing the lump and my thyroid went smoothly. And then I kid you not, he said it was as if there was light shining on my cords. I knew the Lord had done it.
And more importantly, I knew He had shifted my thinking, that my identity was not in my voice, but in His. As his sheep, I know his voice, and His voice is far more important than mine.
Laura Dugger: Wow, oh my goodness, that gets me every time you share that story. [00:39:17] I can just visualize God's light right on your vocal cords. And that it was such an intricate surgery. You had said if they made any wrong move, it would have damaged it, and just His protection, and He gets so much glory for that.
Jaime Farrell: Totally.
Laura Dugger: And He was so good.
Jaime Farrell: So good. So good.
Laura Dugger: Well, you also said there was one other recent spiritual rock. You can continue.
Jaime Farrell: Yeah. Another more recent, not from my childhood rock, was the following year after that surgery. And this would be a rock that I would have to experience not once, but twice. We became pregnant, and we had just shared the news with our parents.
One night I was waiting for Jonathan to get back home from picking up a to-go order of our favorite dessert from Olive Garden at the time and I went to the bathroom and saw that my underwear were soaked with blood. [00:40:16]
That night at the ER, it was confirmed that our baby was no longer with us. I spent the next week sobbing my eyes out, bleeding continually, trying to go to work every day and act as if things were okay to these dear 10-year-olds who were in my class. After another week, the baby still hadn't moved. It was still very much attached, right in the same exact spot, as if it didn't want to leave.
Honestly, tears still come when I think about how my baby had to be cut out of me because no matter how long I continued to bleed, it just remained. We unintentionally got pregnant right after, and mercifully that baby survived and is now 17 years old.
But our third pregnancy, we once again were thrilled to see a positive test, but something made me hesitant to rejoice over this life. We went to the doctor's office, and it confirmed my suspicions. Our baby would once again be one we would never hold this side of heaven. [00:41:15]
And while we waited again for that baby to release on its own, this time I barely bled. Finally, after weeks of waiting for things to move on their own, I had surgery for a second time. We would go on to have three more pregnancies after that, and those kids are now 15, 13, and 10, praise God. But each pregnancy meant a surrender for me.
There is nothing I could do to sustain or save those lives. And the Lord knew that I needed that shift in my thinking. Being in control, believing I'm capable, leaning on my own understanding, these are things I struggle with. And then when I apply those things to my kids, mercy's sakes.
And while I wish I could say I've experienced full victory or freedom from those ideas when it comes to my kids, I can't. But the Lord needed to remove those two babies from me to show me with each and every pregnancy that life is His, not mine. [00:42:15] That these are knit together by Him, not me. That their days are numbered by Him, not me.
You remember that tattoo I talked about before? It's why I did eventually get His, the word "His", tattooed on the top of my left foot, so that I can forever be reminded who I belong to and who my kids truly belong to. So these are just a few of the rocks in my life. And I love when my kids ask about them, and I love that I'm getting to share them with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'm such a mixture of grateful and humbled that you were willing to share with us. So thank you. Every time we share these testimonies, it is so glorifying, I believe, to our Lord.
Jaime Farrell: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: Miscarriage is something we haven't shared in-depth on The Savvy Sauce, and it is so prevalent. Would you even have it in you to pray over those who are in the midst of that or who have gone through that? [00:43:22]
Jaime Farrell: Yeah, I would love to. Before I do that, I just want to say again, this just reminds me that in the loss of our first, when I was sobbing, my dad said, "God's going to use this, and you're going to be able to comfort others with the comfort you're being able to receive right now." So yeah.
And then I also want to give one little just encouraging thing that we have continued to practice. Somebody, when we lost our first, how they honored the life of our baby was by making a donation to an orphanage in Africa, and we have continued that practice.
And that's a great way that when you hear of somebody who's miscarried, write them a note, make a donation. We donate to Camp of Champions here. That's a local ministry for us. But make a donation in the name of that baby as a way to honor that life.
So let's pray. Father, thank you so much for the truth of Your word that says You knit and fashion us in the womb of our mother. [00:44:25] And that includes every life from the moment of conception.
We praise You for every pregnancy You have ever created as we see it as an act of the Alpha and the Omega. We trust, Lord, that whether that pregnancy comes to fruition or not, that you have planned and purposed it for Your glory and for our good.
Lord, You know the ache. You know the lament. You know the grief. We don't get to experience the joy of that baby here on earth. And for all the mamas who have experienced that or who will experience that, Father, I pray that they would find their portion and their strength in You.
Father, for the loss of those couples, Lord, we had to learn how to grieve together as a couple. [00:45:28] I pray that You would strengthen those marriages. I pray for the physical outworking of those miscarriages for those women. I pray for their bodies, that You would be that great physician.
Lord, I pray for even... I want to speak to even abortions, those pregnancies that don't happen because of choice. I pray for the hurt that that causes the moms. I pray for that secrecy, and I pray, Father, that even, Lord, you would come alongside all mothers, whether miscarriage, whether abortion. God, I thank You so much that You are the rock to cling to, You are the one we can turn to. You are the foundation. You are the hope.
Thank you, Lord, that we can remember who we are and whose we are. And, Lord, that truly these babies, these pregnancies, are gifts of You in every form, whether cut short or whether ones we hold here on earth. We love You, Lord God, and we thank You and praise You that, in the end, You're going to make this right and that there will be an end to loss of pregnancy. We love you, Lord Jesus. In your name we pray. Amen. [00:46:49]
Laura Dugger: Amen. Indeed. Even as you modeled how we can just turn to the Lord in anything, it automatically makes me think of Scripture, too. And so as we're starting to bring our time to a close, do you have any favorite Scripture to impart to us for some final encouragement?
Jaime Farrell: Yeah, the first is John 3:30. I feel like that verse defined my early decades, and it's short and simple and sweet so we can all memorize it. He must become greater, I must become less. Whether it was changing schools or learning to love Him first before people and keep Him big and people small, or laying down my doing and to be more concerned with my being, He was teaching me John 3:30. He must become greater, I must become less.
Then in my late 30s, I walked through Deuteronomy and just fell in love with that book. It's basically Moses' summary to the people of all that's happened and how God has loved and pursued His people and how people can love and pursue God in response. [00:47:57]
In chapter 30, it specifically starts by recounting all that God has done for His people and all that God wants to do for His people by circumcising their hearts, by making them new. And it says that this new heart isn't too hard for us. We simply accept His free gift. Nor is it too far from us. Jesus was coming, yahoo!
And so it says in verse 15 that God has basically set before us two options, life and good or death and evil. And at the end of that chapter it says, and now I'm going to stop paraphrasing and start actually quoting, it says, "Therefore, choose life, so that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying His voice, and holding fast to Him, for He, He is your life and your length of days."
This is my deepest desire, to daily live alive in Him. And being alive will look like loving Him, obeying Him, holding fast to Him, clinging to Him, not to my kids, not to my husband, not to the people around me, not to my job, not to my gifts, because He is my life and length of days. [00:49:14] He is the one going with me to eternity. And living in such a way like this gives my kids an opportunity to follow my example as I follow Christ, the same opportunity my parents gave me.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Amen again. And just getting this special hour set aside to chat with you, I am just reminded of the abundant gift of friendship. I can't believe the Lord gave you as a friend and I'm so grateful. I learned so much from you. And you clearly have such a gift for teaching. You use that in our church through the week, leading women's Bible Study. But if anybody else wants to get to know you better, where can they also join you?
Jaime Farrell: Yeah. You can find me on Facebook or Instagram. Jonathan & Jaime Farrell. And you're always welcome to reach out there or, truth be told, you can reach out to Laura and she can connect us together as well. [00:50:15]
I just also want to invite people to join in on a couple different spaces that were instrumental in my life that I've already talked about and they're still happening today.
So first, if you're local, Kids Choir. I lead Kids Choir at Grace Church on Wednesdays, 5:45 to 6:25 p.m., starting in August around the time school starts and running through the first half of December. If your kids aren't singing truth alongside other kids, come join us.
And if you are not local, I would really strongly encourage you to start something like that in your church or look for ways that you can do that in your local area. Singing truth alongside kids, it just deeply implants the words into their hearts.
Then Bible quizzing. This is for 7th grade to 12th grade. Again, if you're local and you want to get your tween teen interacting with the Word of God, learning how to study it, learning how to memorize it, learning how to ask questions of it, learning how to apply it, all in a super fun way alongside others, this is the place to do it. [00:51:16]
They meet on Sunday nights from 6:30 to 8:00 p.m. at Grace Church and then most attend a SNAQ, S-N-A-Q, Sunday Night After Quiz, where they go to the home of someone in the church and play games and eat food and enjoy each other's company. It is fantastic.
Again, it's not a perfect program, but as our youth pastor said, show me another program that a church does that really gets the kids engaged with the Word of God. It's just a great way for students to be learning the Word of God in such a fun atmosphere.
And then if you've got any questions about either one of these, even if you're not local and you want to know how do we do that, whether it's Kids Choir or quiz, reach out to me, again, through Facebook, Instagram. I'd always be happy to give you my phone number and we can chat or meet up face-to-face.
You do not need to attend Grace Church to participate in either one of those things. Of course, that would be incredibly awesome. And again, if you reach out to me, my family would be glad to meet you at the door of Grace Church and sit with you if ever you want to visit. [00:52:17]
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will add the links to all of those options in the show notes. And I echo all that you said.
But Jaimie, you are already familiar, we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so is my final question for you today, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Jaime Farrell: So last time I shared, my dads' remember who you are and whose you are. And today, just after our chat, I would just say take a moment today and note one or two of your own rocks. Think about the ways you've seen God at work and then today, be willing to share a rock with someone.
Tell your kids. Tell your friends. Tell your neighbors. Speak often and quickly about all the ways you've seen God at work. Psalm 78:4 and 7 says, "We will not hide them from their children, but tell to the coming generation the glorious deeds of the LORD, and His might, and the wonders that He has done. ...so that they should set their hope in God and not forget the works of God, but keep His commandments." Today tell a rock to someone. [00:53:24]
Laura Dugger: Wow. I love that. I have experienced the Holy Spirit over this entire conversation.
Jaime Farrell: Thank you, Lord.
Laura Dugger: And we got to even pray together before we pressed record. And you prayed, Lord, send the angels even to guard my lips. And He was faithful and good again and answered that.
And the way that your scripture and stories spoke to my heart were so encouraging. And that is my prayer that everybody listening right now. If you're feeling stirred or you are encouraged and motivated to share a rock, I believe that is the Lord speaking to you and prompting you and nudging you that way. So, Jaimie, I just love you so much. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you for coming back. And thank you for being my guest today.
Jaime Farrell: Thanks so much, Laura. Love you.
Laura Dugger: Love you.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. [00:54:25] Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:55:28]
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. [00:56:25] The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Bonus Episode: Special Patreon Re-Release: Purposeful and Practical with Emily Thomas
7 Aug· The Savvy Sauce
Special Patreon Re-Release: Purposeful and Practical with Emily Thomas
Proverbs 14:18b (AMP) “But the sensible [are thoughtful and far-sighted and] are crowned with knowledge."
Emily Thomas is the Chief of Staff at Cultivate What Matters, the home of the PowerSheets® Goal Planner and all things intentional living. With over 11 years at Cultivate, Emily loves helping women uncover what matters, set good goals, and live them out with joy. Her free time is spent with her high-school-sweetheart husband and two young kiddos, going on everyday adventures, and writing her personal blog, Em for Marvelous.
Recommended Resources for Goal Setting and Intentional Living:
Girls Goal Planner
Write the Word Journal
Connect with Emily Thomas on Instagram: @emilyyayer and @cultivatewhatmatters
Recommended Previous Episode from The Savvy Sauce: Fruitful in 2020 with Laura Dugger
Links to Some of Emily’s Blog Posts:
Keeping things simple with kids
My practices and boundaries around work
EFM archive of personal finance posts
Emily’s 2020 goals
Net Worth Meetings
Monthly Relationship Prep Days
Holiday Prep
How I use Instagram
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Magic Mind (Get up to 56% off your subscription or save 20% off your one time purchase when you use the code SavvySauce20 at checkout)

Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten from 2023 #1 School Series: Benefits of Homeschooling with Jodi Mockabee
5 Aug· The Savvy Sauce
Top Ten from 2023: #1 School Series: Benefits of Homeschooling with Jodi Mockabee
Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭(NIV) “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.”
‭‭
Questions and Topics We Cover:
How did your grandfather teach you about “kingdom economy”?How have you set up your life in such a way that your entire family pursues wholeness?Do you have any other practical tips for parenting or homeschooling you'd like to share?
Jodi Mockabee is a photographer, writer, blogger, speaker, social media influencer, and homeschooling mother of five living in the Black Hills of South Dakota. With a passion for health, wellness, parenting, and more, Jodi blogs her family's journey and shares tips for a healthy and active lifestyle. She also writes curriculum for creative and artistic learning in a homeschool environment. Find her at JodiMockabee.com.
Jodi's Book: The Whole & Healthy Family
Follow Jodi on Instagram
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Four30 Scones
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten from 2023 #2 Tremendous Testimony and Adding Spark into Your Marriage with David & Terri Sumlin
29 Jul· The Savvy Sauce
*Disclaimer* This episode is not intended for young ears.
Top Ten from 2023: #2 Tremendous Testimony and Adding Spark into Your Marriage with David & Terri Sumlin
James 4:8 (NKJV) "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
As it so often happens, What the enemy meant for evil, God used for your good. How did He begin to do that?What are some practical things we can be doing in our own relationships to prioritize and delight in our marriages?What specific stories can you share to encourage married couples and parents?
David and Terri Sumlin are co-founders of Marriage Life Ministries and authors of the Oneness of Marriage®, Intimacy of Marriage®, and Marriage Innovators Workshop® series designed to help couples enrich their marriages through the application of biblical principles and adventure-based learning. They both have served over the last 18 years as international marriage educators, retreat leaders, pastoral counselors, and conference speakers.
Their unique approach to marital education is built upon some of the advances found in neuroscience, psychology, physiology, and adventure-based therapy, which ultimately is tested through the lens of God’s word for validation. The result is an Activity-Based Marital Enrichment process that helps couples derive behavioral transformation and sustained learning. Couples who participate in these types of marital enrichment programs are 84% more likely to report having increased levels of marital satisfaction long after the program has ended.
David is a native Texan and earned his bachelor's degree in finance from the University of North Texas. He served as a management consultant with the American Productivity & Quality Center and later as an executive for Hewlett Packard. In 2002, after sensing God’s call to enter full-time vocational ministry, David enrolled at Dallas Theological Seminary to pursue a master’s degree in biblical counseling as well as a doctorate in marriage and family ministry. Upon graduating from DTS, he received his call to pastor a church in northwest Houston for seven years before serving as a full-time marriage educator.
Terri was born in Ashland, Kentucky. She earned her bachelor’s degree in Education from the University of North Texas. Upon graduating, Terri has been blessed with a 23-year career as an English teacher. Terri is a leader in women’s ministry and serves full-time alongside David in their combined marriage and family ministry.
David and Terri currently live in Houston, TX and will celebrate their 34th wedding anniversary this year. They have two children, a son Robin and a daughter Morgan who married the love of her life, Zach and gave the Sumlin’s their first grandson, Brooks and granddaughter Sadie.
The Types of Marital Programs that we offer are three-fold. Marriage Adventures are 7-day high adrenaline programs that include white-water rafting, challenge courses, and other high adventure activities designed to engage the emotional, cognitive, and behavioral parts of marital enrichment. Marriage Outbacks provide much of the same experiential-based learning objectives as our Adventure programs except that it is condensed into a weekend version where couples rough it in the great outdoors. The third type of program that we offer is our romantic Marriage Getaways hosted in intimate locations around the world.
Conferences, Workshops, & Pastoral Counseling. In addition to our highly successful marital enrichment programs, we also facilitate marital education for churches, small groups, and organizations in both large conference and intimate workshop venues. In addition, we offer pastoral marriage support and pre-marital counseling on a case-by-case basis.
Marriage Life Ministries
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Dream Seller Travel, Megan Rokey
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten from 2023 #3 Making Your Home a Place of Love and Peace With Late Author and International Speaker, Devi Titus
22 Jul· The Savvy Sauce
Top Ten from 2023: #3 Making Your Home a Place of Love and Peace With Late Author and International Speaker, Devi Titus
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.” -Titus 2:3-5 (NIV)
Devi Titus was wife of Larry Titus and an international Christian conference speaker and author. She was an award winning communicator with the Washington Press Women’s Association and spoke to multiple thousands annually, both nationally and globally. She first came to the attention of women nationwide in 1978 when she founded and edited VIRTUE magazine, a successful Christian alternative to secular women’s magazines. VIRTUE magazine raised a standard of excellence for women’s lives for 22 years. She was an author and founder of The Mentoring Mansion (eventually called the TITUS HOME). Married for over 58 years, Larry and Devi had two children, six grandchildren, and eleven great grandchildren. She and her husband resided in the Dallas/Ft Worth, TX area and traveled extensively worldwide.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Devi’s Website
Home Experience by Devi Titus and Trina Loranzo
The Table Experience by Devi Titus
When Leaders Live Together by Devi Titus
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Sue Neihouser Team
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten From 2023 #4 Parenting for the Relationship with Sandra Stanley
15 Jul· The Savvy Sauce
Top Ten from 2023: #4 Parenting for the Relationship with Sandra Stanley
Proverbs 27:18 a “He who tends the fig tree will eat its fruit,“
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
Will you share the story of how you and Andy arrived at your overall vision and goal for parenting?How does the “law of the harvest” apply to parenting?Will you share your family's personal "keystone habits" you chose to set in place, rather than creating a long list of rules?
Sandra Stanley received her bachelor of science degree from Georgia Tech and master of arts from Dallas Theological Seminary. Sandra has a heart for foster kids and foster families, as she and Andy have been foster parents since 2010. Her ministry passion is promoting foster care in the local church. Much of her time these days is spent working on various writing projects and continuing her involvement with Fostering Together, the foster care initiative of North Point Ministries.
North Point Community Church Resources
Thank You to Our Sponsors: For Girls Like You
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten from 2023 #5 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
8 Jul· The Savvy Sauce
Top Ten from 2023: #5 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
Galatians 6:7 (NIV) Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
When you reflect back on parenting, what are you most pleased with, regarding ways you and your husband chose to invest in your family?
What are a few of your favorite ways to plant and cultivate seeds of faith in everyday family life with your own kids?
How can we disciple our children to be a friend to God?
Courtney DeFeo wants to be a resource and help to YOU, more than she want you to be impressed by HER. She believes God gifted all of us with unique talents and passions. She's had fun discovering a few of hers and using them to support her fellow moms, parents and women in this journey called life. What’s the point of great ideas if we just hoard them to ourselves? However, it’s important to note – she in a “Season of Rest” right now! Find out more on her website: www.courtneydefeo.com.
Other Episodes Mentioned:
Finding Your Purpose as a Mom with Courtney DeFeo
*Special Patreon Release* Ideas for Spreading Generosity with Courtney DeFeo
Self-Care in Motherhood with Karen Stubbs
Life is Better with the Holy Spirit with Jeannie Cunnion
Special Patreon Re-Release: Patreon 2 Discipline Strategies and Managing Mom Guilt with Karen Stubbs, Founder of Birds on a Wire
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Spark Academy (Mention The Savvy Sauce to Unlock Your Special Discount!)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce through Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Top Ten from 2023 #6 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: An Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
1 Jul· The Savvy Sauce
*DISCLAIMER* This episode is intended for adults
Top Ten from 2023: #6 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: An Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Micah 6:8 (NIV) "He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."
Questions and Topics We Cover:
Will you share a few practical sexual education tips with us?
What are the best ways spouses can practice communicating well about sex and what are the potential benefits?
How does "desire tend to work differently for men and women"?
Dr. Michael Sytsma is a certified sex therapist, ordained minister, and co-founder of sexual wholeness. Dr. Mike has been working with couples in a variety of capacities since 1987. He currently works with Building Intimate Marriages in Atlanta, GA as he meets with clients, teaches, and speaks at various conferences. He and Karen have been married since 1985 and have two sons, Josiah and Caleb, and one daughter-in-law.
Secrets of Sex and Marriage Website
Building Intimate Marriages Website
Previous Episodes with Dr. Mike on The Savvy Sauce podcast:
Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Enjoying a God-Honoring, Healthy Sex Life with Your Spouse with Certified Sex Therapist and Ordained Minister, Dr. Michael Sytsma
Desire Discrepancy in Marriage with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Patreon 29 Remaining Sexually Engaged Through The Years with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Sue Neihouser Team
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Donate to Savvy Sauce Charities here!
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
- Lytte Lytte igjen Fortsette Lytter...
- Lytte senere Lytte senere
Se mer

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244 Stories Series: Medical Marvels with Carolyn Henricks

Special Patreon Release: Remaining Sexually Engaged Through The Years with Dr. Michael Sytsma

243 Stories Series: Angel Encounter and Hearing from God with Mary Beth Zimmerman

242 Stories Series: He Gives and Takes Away with Joyce Hodel

241 Stories Series: From the Mission Field, Experiencing God in the Little and the Big with Patty Sommer

Special Patreon Re-Release: Lead with Questions in Parenting with Stacy Bellward

240 Stories Series: God's Rescue and Covering in Parenting with Brenda Dugger

239 Stories Series: Experiencing the Supernatural with Jackie Coleman

238 Stories Series: God Delights in His Children with Pastor Brad Habegger

Special Patreon Re-Release: Unexpected Story of Trauma, Anxiety, Adoption, and Hope with Bettina Stevens

237 Stories Series: Prodigal and Redemption with Renee Endress

236 Stories Series: God's Power and Light with Jaime Farrell

Bonus Episode: Special Patreon Re-Release: Purposeful and Practical with Emily Thomas

Top Ten from 2023 #1 School Series: Benefits of Homeschooling with Jodi Mockabee

Top Ten from 2023 #2 Tremendous Testimony and Adding Spark into Your Marriage with David & Terri Sumlin

Top Ten from 2023 #3 Making Your Home a Place of Love and Peace With Late Author and International Speaker, Devi Titus

Top Ten From 2023 #4 Parenting for the Relationship with Sandra Stanley

Top Ten from 2023 #5 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo

Top Ten from 2023 #6 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: An Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma