Episoder
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Heather E. McGowan is a keynote speaker and author of The Empathy Advantage and The Adaptation Advantage with deep experience in the Future of Work field. She describes the importance of empathy with AI's growing influence and fostering a connected, resilient, and adaptable workforce. Heather discusses how AI can transform cognitive work and why leaders must shift from relying on their own expertise to harnessing collective intelligence. She explains how the promise and tacit agreement of work has changed, leading to younger generations’ focus on mission, impact, and mentorship.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:35] Interested in human behavior and art, Heather goes to RISD to study industrial design.
[04:00] Heather learns to ask the right question – is the process, not the product, that matters.
[04:54] Observing people helps Heather identify unarticulated needs, as seen with the Swiffer.
[06:21] Heather designs various products then does an MBA to bridge design and business.
[07:36] Her mentor’s influence directs her towards ESG-focused private equity work.
[09:49] Integrating design and business, Heather works in academia for several years.
[10:50] Heather starts defining how work is changing for her academic and corporate clients as the Future of Work emerges.
[12:24] Challenging the concept of having to take single discipline courses before collaborative studies.
[13:00] The importance of having a common mindset around problem solving.
[13:31] Using basic systems thinking to understand the impact of solutions.
[14:33] Interesting reactions to mixed-year participation in courses.
[15:25] How people responded to integrated design-thinking projects.
[16:15] Heather gets delayed positive feedback to their innovative approach.
[16:39] Insights from Heather’s experiences in education such as getting people to think propositionally.
[17:00] The genesis of the Adaptation Advantage book.
[17:45] The impact of set occupational identity and the rigid 'education-career-retire' model.
[18:26] Lifelong learning with learning and careers overlapping not sequential stages.
[18:55] Retirement is not good for us, now that life expectancy has increased.
[19:30] The AARP starts to focus on people’s ‘next’ or ‘encore’ chapter rather than ‘retirement’.
[20:46] Heather’s research and writing focuses on Future of Work tacit vs explicit knowledge.
[21:17] Explicit knowledge can be automated, while tacit knowledge needs human interaction.
[22:15] AI as a “third lens” for understanding human cognition and expanding our capabilities.
[23:39] Heather warns that over-reliance on automation risks atrophying our skills.
[24:59] The benefit of enhancing cognitive capabilities, not just reducing costs.
[26:16] The long broken agreement about work between employers and employees.
[27:38] Gen Z seeks mission, meaningful work, and mentorship since there is no job security.
[28:04] Empathy is necessary to connect with employees and understand their mentoring needs.
[28:55] Leaders must not rely on individual intelligence but shift to collective intelligence.
[30:34] Heather predicts AI will disrupt cognitive work much like electrification disrupted labor.
[31:28] Heather connects rising polarization with declines in socialization and greater loneliness.
[32:08] How our brains are shaped for agitation because of our solitude.
[33:00] Workplaces serving as essential social trust-building spaces.
[34:32] Leaders must build trust through authenticity, logic, and empathy.
[35:30] The compelling letter Airbnb’s CEO wrote to employees being laid off.
[37:36] Being transparent about the challenges of fast-changing circumstances.
[38:16] Human-centered policies which optimize for thriving employees improve retention and financial performance.
[40:45] When leaders reach a very senior level in organizations their empathy decreases.
[42:47] Heather encourages reweaving the social fabric to foster collaborative exploration.
[44:16] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Talk with coworkers about shared values. Ask how they're doing, if they're getting enough sleep, if they're working on a project that is meaningful to them. Share experiences where you've been able to bounce forward, not back. Your job is to help your team adapt to change and become the next best version of themselves.
RESOURCES
Heather McGowan on LinkedIn
Heather’s website
Leading the Day After article
Sven Hansen and the Reliance Institute
Letter from Brian Chesky, CEO of Airbnb, to employees
Frances Frei, HBS Professor
QUOTES
“We need to start taking longer strides and putting greater visions out there and say it's going to be hard, but it's going to be worth it."
"Trust comes down to three things. Authenticity, logic, and empathy. So authenticity is do people experience the real you? Do they feel like you're giving them the honest approach when you're delivering things to you, or are you putting on a Persona? Logic is, do you have a sound theory of what you're asking people to do? Ability to communicate, a division of where the organization is trying to go? And then do you demonstrate that you care what that work means to the individual?"
“Now, most leaders are leading teams of people who have skills and knowledge they do not have at least some of them, and it may not even be within their group. So you can't lead with Individual intelligence, you have to lead with collective intelligence. You cannot get collective intelligence without empathy. So that's the first piece of how we need to lead differently.”
“If we only use technology to replace what humans currently do, it's a race to the bottom. If we only let humans get lazy by using ChatGPT, we will lose. What we need to do is ‘Where is the ability to enhance? Where can I become better? Where can I make my organizational capacity stronger, greater, more resilient?”
“The promise and the agreement on work, the tacit agreement we've had for work has changed. It really became the last promise for the Boomers was ‘I trade my loyalty to an organization for the security of employment’. That promise has been broken for many decades, But the organizations that are still expecting that loyalty, that be it not providing that promise of security, have to realize they have to provide something else.”
“I think what Gen Z is pushing for, which I think a lot of folks are on board with, is instead, I know I'm not going to get security. So I want three things. I want mission. I want to be part an organization that's trying to do something big and hard and meaningful. I want to be part of something bigger than myself essentially. I want meaningful work.”
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Luis Velasquez Ph.D. is the author of Ordinary Resilience, an executive leadership coach, and former research scientist. He describes his journey after a brain tumor forced him to leave academia and reinvent himself, using endurance sports goals during recovery. Luis explains how resilience means defining who you are, accepting your circumstances, and adapting to change, not toughness. He emphasizes intentional reframing, focusing on what you can control, and building relationships to foster social resilience and weather challenges. Luis shares insights and mental models for leaders managing teams as we navigate change at work and beyond.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:27] Instead of becoming a farmer, Luis loves science and does a Ph.D. in molecular biology.
[02:59] Luis returns to Guatemala after a scholarship to college in the US, as he had committed to.
[03:38] Luis takes the hardest class—plant pathology—wanting to improve resistance to disease.
[04:49] Becoming a professor of fungal genetics, Luis wants to protect plants.
[05:40] Suddenly, Luis gets a brain tumor and his full life stops.
[06:50] Luis describes growing up amidst poverty and political violence in Guatemala.
[07:24] Surviving the tumor, Luis's ‘recovery’ goal is to run a marathon which takes him a year.
[07:57] Luis has to reinvent himself and recognizes ‘what I do is not who I am’.
[09:18] Luis gives his tumor a funny name and begins his second journey.
[10:00] Exploring the various ways Luis can use the same tools; he chooses Human Resources.
[12:21] With reflection and research, Luis realizes everyone has resilience within that they can access.
[14:07] Overwhelming amounts of information now at work put us in a phase of beginners.
[15:02] In flatter organizations, how can we learn what we need to know?
[15:53] We must be intentional about connections, not optimizing meetings only for efficiency.
[17:32] How trusting relationships change interpersonal dynamics.
[18:45] The power of social resilience, including allowing us to mimic solutions.
[20:07] The most important question is ‘what is the problem you are trying to solve?’
[21:48] Resilience is not changing, but adapting, who we are.
[22:44] Luis’s niche is helping people who are difficult at work, often misunderstood.
[23:31] When intention is not aligned with action, and how to motivate alignment.
[24:43] What small adjustment can be made to fulfill your intention and be perceived differently?
[26:34] How entrepreneurs perceive failure if they attach their identity to their product.
[27:55] The mental model that separates outcomes and outputs.
[29:46] The power of reframing – such as the difference between a position and an option.
[32:13] Younger employees are afraid of making mistakes and losing face.
[32:58] The three types of failure and the issue of not clarifying when failure happens.
[33:58] Resilience: taking a small risk, being able to make a mistake, adapt, and improve.
[35:25] Luis's mental model ANT: an Annoying Negative Thought!
[36:08] How to dispel swirling negative thoughts.
[37:05] Everyone has what it takes to be resilient - a commitment and a decision to move forward.
[38:11] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To be more resilient to change, describe yourself—who are you? Then give yourself permission to move forward in the direction you want. Make a choice. Make a decision as the first step.
RESOURCES
Luis Velasquez on LinkedIn
Luis’s company VelasCoaching.com
Decisive by Chip and Dan Heath
QUOTES edited
“I realized that who I am is not what I do or even what I have.”
“I learned over the years that the world doesn't belong to the people that know the most but to the people that learn the fastest.”
“We all are in a phase of beginners because we cannot know everything…Right now, a lot of the things that we are trying to work on, we don't even know how to start. Everybody's doing something new.”
“Whatever problem you are having, whether it is a work or in life, somebody already went through that. All we need to do is ask…If you are socially resilient, you will find people who are going to solve your problem.”
“The entrepreneurial spirit is not tied to the product…Separate the identity of these individuals [entrepreneurs] with what they're trying to accomplish. Those are two completely different things.”
“When you take a position, it's very hard to defend. And it's also very hard to see other options available. But if you shift it and say this is an option – how else can we do it?”
“Younger employees are afraid of making mistakes. Losing face is a big issue. I think that that fear comes from the inflexibility of organizations to accept mistakes and failures.”
“Resilience is taking the first step and moving forward.”
“I think that the biggest gift that life has given us is the ability to make a choice. You can, I can, everybody can say, I am going to do something different. I am going to stop doing X. Just making that decision will take you a long way. It's making the decision as the first step.”
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Vidya Krishnan, Chief Learning Officer at Ericsson, combines her engineering experience, systems thinking, and love of learning to connect core upskilling with corporate strategy. For Vidya, learning at the speed of technology development requires a learning mindset and future-focused dynamic approach to jobs and skills. Vidya explains how a project marketplace enables internal talent mobility: redesigning work with a skills-focus; facilitating evolution to ‘resource fluidity’; and allowing organic shifts into emerging areas as employees gravitate towards where work is flowing. Vidya recommends stability management with change management.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:06] Vidya studies electrical engineering influenced by her family’s engineering legacy.
[03:16] Deeply admiring engineering and loving learning, Vidya admits she had ‘will before skill’.
[04:14] Vidya promotes internships: good summertime feedback boosts her while some college studies challenge.
[05:07] For personal reasons Vidya leaves AT&T joining Nortel (acquired by Ericsson) in Dallas.
[06:19] Always an engineer, now focused on people’s experiences in L&D, Vidya loves teaching.
[08:24] Learning is as the heart of every transformation for Vidya’s team and workplace.
[09:19] Learning even more from failure, by addressing both shame and ignorance after mistakes.
[11:11] Technology and people are inherently upgradable—ongoing learning at a tech company.
[12:34] How engineers need "power skills" like storytelling and managing stakeholders.
[14:05] Looking creatively to other industries, like aviation, to solve engineering challenges.
[16:49] Vidya has a double life for three years learning and networking at learning conferences.
[18:54] Managers want her to advance in engineering, but Vidya is determined to change field.
[19:45] Vidya overcomes self-doubt and family concerns while transitioning her career.
[21:15] After three years, Vidya transitions horizontally into technical training for customers.
[22:56] Becoming a studio offering digital learning using multimedia and experiential techniques.
[23:41] How to create capabilities that customers will pay for and employees value.
[27:00] Systems thinking to describe work’s three dimensions: digital ecosystem, business system, and culture system.
[30:14] A systems vs programmatic approach to work is strategic and natural at a tech company.
[31:20] Skills development is vital and therefore must be connected to company strategy.
[33:21] Constructing a framework where skills are derivative of corporate strategy.
[34:20] Starting with the one skill that is most consequential to the strategy—less is more.
[36:20] Two sets of skills—global critical skills (top down) and job role skills (bottom up).
[37:30] Digitalizing a job architecture starts development of a skills taxonomy.
[38:23] Getting on the skills games board through credentialing and contribution.
[39:13] To be future focused, skills and job roles are digitalized into a relational database.
[40:40] Skills’ journey phases: initialize, mobilize, and capitalize advancing with winnable games.
[43:10] "Resource fluidity" is where employees’ skills are not confined to their job role—reskill and constantly redeploy.
[44:45] A talent marketplace that is a project marketplace redesigns work to put skills to work.
[47:43] Disaggregating work into projects enables work packages doable outside of people’s day jobs—a third space—to develop new skills.
[50:30] Enabling employees to gravitate towards emerging areas from eroding areas.
[51:35] The hypothesis that progressive career reinvention at scale will pay for itself.
[52:25] A project marketplace creates capability and expands capacity.
[54:50] Partnership is the new leadership, and co-creation and co-ownership are key to execution.
[56:10] Stability management needs to accompany change management.
[57:16] How business cross-functionality can allow varied thinking and ‘wicked’ problem solving.
[58:13] Project marketplace decouples work from many traditional boundaries.
[01:00:21] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Start now. Start small with one critical skill. Connect it to strategy, which is done systematically.
RESOURCES
Vidya Krishnan on LinkedIn
Ericsson.com
Books mentioned:
Range by David Epstein
The Problem with Change by Ashley Goodall
Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Lalou
QUOTES (edited)
“If we give people the opportunity to put their skills to work, this is actually very healthy for the company because we are organically self-shaping away from eroding areas into emerging areas …people naturally gravitating to where the work is flowing.”
“You have a dynamic platform that's digitalized for jobs and skills to stay in lockstep with industry evolution: what's emerging, what's eroding, and for that stuff to easily automatically flow through every other system in the company where people are making decisions about who to hire, how to evolve their career, how to specify the requirements for this requisition, what job roles need to go out the window, what new job roles need to be introduced.”
“How do you put learning in the flow of work and work in the flow of learning so that it's happening to people experientially?”
“Work has three dimensions: there's an ecosystem, a business system and a culture system.”
“The logic was that if things that are vital should be systematic rather than programmatic so that they happen no matter what, because that's what vital things should do. And then you fundamentally believe that skills are vital, as I do, because they are what connect strategy to execution. So if you believe that, then it follows you must take a systematic approach.”
“Strategy without skills is a daydream. Skills and execution without strategy is a nightmare.”
“Capabilities are what create execution of the strategy.” “It's a means to an end. What's the end? It's to execute strategy. Therefore, it has to be systematically connected to strategy.”
“Partnership is a new leadership and co creation and co ownership is actually the key to execution, which is not clean and it may be a little bit messy.”
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Mark Ma, a research professor at the University of Pittsburgh, studies social and economic issues including Return To Office (RTO) mandates, AI, and tax evasion. A working parent during the pandemic, Mark describes how personal and community experiences initially generated his interest in researching remote work options and hybrid policies. He shares his discoveries that stock market declines generated RTO mandates but not improved corporate results. Mark discusses the dynamics of executives’ control, power, and distrust affecting work policies. He advocates for workplace flexibility—giving employees and teams choices.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:23] While Mark’s parents advised him to study accounting, he found it fascinating.
[03:01] For his PhD, Mark explores financial analysis, and his tax avoidance research is cited.
[03:45] Passionate about research, Mark pursues academia, also appreciating the flexible lifestyle.
[05:09] Parental challenges during the pandemic fuels Mark’s interest in remote work options.
[05:50] Noticing neighbors’ complaints about returning to the office, Mark attends a conference and hears about working from home research.
[06:41] Mark gets tenure and explores risky research projects that help improve people’s lives.
[08:25] In late 2022, Mark starts collecting data on companies’ return-to-office mandates.
[09:25] Leaders say remote workers aren’t working hard, while employees keep performing.
[11:06] Return-To-Office mandates often happen after a stock price crash—but why?
[12:00] How remote work gets blamed—without evidence—for poor performance.
[14:36] RTO mandates also result from executives’ loss of control and not trusting employees.
[15:40] Companies may also use RTO policies to easily/cheaply lay off employees.
[18:16] Male and powerful CEOs—with higher relative salaries—issue more RTO mandates to assert control.
[21:38] Employee and team choice is recommended combined with intentional office time.
[22:32] Mark needs data from companies offering employee choice to confirm the best approach.
[24:58] Amazon’s shifts to 3-days/wk then 5-days/week RTO has caused employee dissatisfaction and departures.
[25:50] One example of Nvidia’s flexible policy enables it to benefit from Amazon’s rigid one.
[26:59] Mark finds no evidence that RTO mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.
[27:43] Should productivity be measured appropriately and over what time period?
[29:12] States level data shows structured hybrid work reduces depression and suicide risks.
[32:00] Fully remote workers often self-select which fits their lifestyle and social setup.
[32:50] Companies going fully remote need regular off-site engagements to mitigate isolation.
[34:18] New research explores RTO mandates’ affect turnover, especially in finance and tech.
[35:20] Initial findings show higher turnover, especially among women, follows RTO mandates.
[36:48] After RTOs announcements, turnover increases quickly as some people can’t go back to the office.
[39:06] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: “First, allow flexibility so employees have choice. Second, promote flexible team leaders to signal that people working from home will not be penalized. Third, for new graduate hires who want to work at the office, ensure mentors are present to support them.
RESOURCES
Mark Ma on LinkedIn
Is Workplace Flexibility Good for the Environment?
Research on Return To Office Mandates
Mental Health Benefits of Workplace Flexibility
QUOTES
“The more powerful CEOs and the male CEOs are more likely to impose return-to-office mandates.”
“You should allow team choice plus employee choice. That means teams decide when they want to come to office together. And on those in office days, those meetings should be intentional.”
“We clearly do not find any evidence that Return To Office mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.”
“Five-day in-office work is not necessarily good for your mental health.”
“A lot of top executives, when they do not see the employees in the office, they do not trust the employees. They feel they have lost control of the employees.”
"Firms are telling their employees, you can work from home, but you will not be promoted. That's not a good strategy because your good employees will leave."
"By promoting flexible team leaders, you will send a signal to those people who want to stay remote or hybrid that there is a clear career path for them."
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Mika Cross is a Workplace Transformation Strategist at Strategy@Work. She discusses her military career and years federal government agency experience including talent management, workplace flexibility, and wellness. Mika shares her approach to distributed teams, performance management, and work-life balance. She describes how flexible private sector workforce management policies, informed by public sector successes, foster engagement, retain talent, and meet the diverse needs of the modern, distributed workforce. Mika describes how remote work options allow us to reimagine veterans’ and civilians’ working lives and communities.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:39] MIka works wants to be a journalist then has to take a break in her studies.
[03:17] A mentor suggests military service so Mika can complete her education and serve nobly.
[04:26] Mika has some job options from Uncle Sam after finishing top three in her officer training class.
[05:35] Mika is attracted by inclusive workplaces that support the whole soldier and family.
[06:32] Working for a rapidly deployable unit, Mika must support distributed teams holistically.
[07:33] The military is facing shortages, how can retention be improved using flexibility?
[09:15] How to share knowledge across agencies while dealing with confidential information.
[10:31] What does employee experience look like in the federal government?
[11:49] The power of communication to enable effective policy implementation.
[13:41] Managers want discretion and information to make the right decisions for their teams.
[16:11] With deep knowledge of federal regulations, Mika takes an integrated systems approach.
[17:44] What are the blocks to effective equal opportunity?
[18:37] Mika finds some workplace flexibility policy options blocked by supervisors.
[19:50] Mindsets can prevent advancements or enable cultural transformation.
[21:26] How to measure the impact of policies including cost savings.
[23:04] Taking a multi-pronged approach with broad buy in and incentivized training.
[24:25] Celebrating wins, measuring engagement, and saving on leases.
[25:34] The benefits of getting multiple share stakeholders on board.
[26:36] The USDA gets recognition and rewards as one of America's best workplaces.
[27:25] Achieving savings of $8 million per year through telecommuting.
[31:00] Negotiating work policies with 92 unions!
[36:34] Enabling veterans’ smooth transitions into civilian jobs requires many types of flexibility.
[38:20] Mika explores upskilling, reskilling and benefits.
[40:14] Veterans often returning to Hometown USA find few jobs after years of rural brain drain.
[41:20] Three ways to provide thriving healthy supportive workplaces to veterans.
[42:43] Military spouses need remote work options as they support transitioning veterans.
[45:01] The wild opportunity to reimagine the nation, rebuilding Hometown USA.
[46:58] The importance of soft skills -- or success skills as Mike calls them.
[48:18] Mika believes in career readiness skills so workers learn how to work.
[49:14] Moving to a skills-based talent economy.
[50:27] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: If you don’t include flexibility in your work policies and turnover increases, recognize the burden on employees who stay and the loss of skills and organizational knowledge. Instead, extend a little trust and autonomy first, hold people accountable second, and teach flexible open mindsets.
RESOURCES
Mika Cross on LinkedIn
Mika’s website MikaCross.com
QUOTES
“I ended up seeing the power of inclusive workplaces, supportive workplaces, policies, procedures and programs that supported the whole soldier in order to get the best out of our troops, especially when they are deploying into conflict and being separated from their families and having to support the other half of that equation, which is their spouse, their families, their children, their loved ones.”
“It really helped me to inform, regardless of what my work was or what projects I was working on, how are people interpreting even the wording in these policies to be able to implement them successfully the way we intended.”
“The Secretary of Agriculture had included telework work life and wellness as a component of his vision for cultural transformation and had monthly metrics to which he reviewed and held his sub cabinet committee accountable for each and every month.”
“If you have jobs that are suitable to be done in a remote capacity, could you be leveraging those remote jobs for the purpose of attracting and hiring an amazing skillset of talent from either military spouses or transitioning veterans?”
“We're looking at wild opportunity for our nation to rebuild and put emphasis in areas of the country that sort of have been left behind in the past.”
“When you consider older workers staying longer, trying to continue working, this can really create opportunity not just for employers, but for those communities where they live. If they're able to continue contributing their tax base, to the infrastructure, and re-imagining what our Hometown USAs can look like all around the country.”
“What we used to call soft skills; I like to call them success skills—skills that any worker needs in any industry and occupation. These are what can set you apart from someone else. Things like critical thinking, autonomous work ethic, conflict resolution skills, interpersonal, and intergenerational skills.”
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Paul J. Zak is a Professor and Director of the Center for Neuroeconomics Studies at Claremont Graduate University. Paul is the Founder of Immersion Neuroscience a company that enables measurement of immersion in experiences in real-time. He has authored books including Immersion and The Trust Factor. Paul emphasizes customer lifetime value and the effect of creating extraordinary experiences for customers and employees. He discusses the neuroscience linking trust, psychological safety, and employee engagement to improved business outcomes. Paul highlights emotional fitness and how leaders creating empathetic, trust-based cultures enable employees to flourish, boosting their satisfaction and well-being.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:43] Paul studies mathematics, biology, and neuroscience to understand human behavior.
[03:21] ‘Why are we nice to each other?’ has been a core area of study in Paul’s lab.
[04:00] Humans are naturally group-oriented and thrive when working collaboratively.
[05:35] Creating extraordinary employee experiences is key to engagement and performance.
[06:52] Paul focuses on Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) supported by strong employee engagement.
[07:40] Improved customer service helps customers and can boost employee satisfaction too.
[10:12] Businesses must focus on retaining talent by fostering employee growth and satisfaction.
[11:15] Paul advocates for a coaching model of leadership that encourages autonomy.
[12:06] Trust with psychological safety allows employees to be comfortable and burn less neurologic energy.
[13:46] Leaders must create environments for people to flourish, not expecting consistency.
[14:39] The "Whole Person Review" is forward-looking focusing on professional, personal, and spiritual growth.
[16:56] With empathy and trust closely related, leaders best recognize employees as humans with emotions and personal lives.
[18:12] Paul enjoys daily huddles fostering team connection and alignment at work.
[19:04] Leaders benefit from in-person interactions to build and sustain relationships.
[22:04] What experiences do people value? Offer the office as a social emotional hub.
[24:24] Six peak immersion moments per day lasting three minutes build emotional fitness.
[24:56] Adding a social layer to any experience increases neurologic immersion and satisfaction.
[25:32] Video conference interactions achieve 50- 80% of the value of in-person interactions.
[28:35] Leaders need to understand brain responses to nurture psychological safety.
[29:20] Teams of 15-20 perform better because individuals can maintain strong connections.
[30:09] Creating an environment where people can flourish and be fully engaged at work and outside work.
[32:18] Eight factors generate peak immersion moments so employees can adjust assignments with their supervisor.
[33:09] A Google employee finds she loves coaching and moves to Facebook to mentor developers.
[34:38] Crafting jobs that challenge people—to do what is hard to master but achievable.
[35:40] Conversations about investing in professional development—a key trust factor.
[37:50] Train extensively then delegate generously to give people control over their work lives.
[38:41] Autonomy and job satisfaction improved when hospital nurses had more decision-making power in patient care.
[41:12] Leaders should model behaviors they want to see.
[43:52] Stress is not bad—manageable challenges can stimulate engagement and bonding.
[44:42] Paul’s skydiving experiences and his oxytocin and stress levels inverted over time.
[46:05] Challenges at work enable employees to perform at their best and achieve satisfaction.
[47:02] Create environments where employees can flourish, be safe, have immersion moments, and connect with each other.
[49:14] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: For a longer happier life, invest time in things that excite and engage you to build up emotional fitness and resilience. Emotional fitness motivates people to exercise more, eat and sleep better which improves health and extends life span.
RESOURCES
Paul J. Zak Ph.D. on LinkedIn
Paul’s company Immersion’s website
Paul’s books “Immersion”, “The Trust Factor”, “The Moral Molecule”
QUOTES (edited)
“If employees do not love what they're doing, they're just not going to perform as well. So how do I create this environment where employees can really flourish and share that with customers?”
“You have this kind of inverted pyramid where leadership is at service of the individual--employees who are creating value. Then you see this great connection with the company's purpose.”
“If we can create an environment where employees have this real sense of mission, they're connected to the purpose of the organization, they're working in an environment where they really can flourish professionally, then when they come home, they actually are more satisfied with their lives outside of work.”
“If I understand an employee as a leader—you're not human capital, you're a human being—you have emotions, you have a personal life. Hopefully, you love what you do here, you feel like you're fairly compensated and you're excited about how we improve our customers' lives. If I recognize all of that, then I'm going to be much more of a guide or a coach and less of a top-down micromanager.”
“I have to have this empathy of intolerance for the kind of weirdness of human beings!”
“Am I creating this environment of psychological safety where people are sufficiently comfortable, so they have the brain bandwidth to be fully in on the tasks they're doing?”
“From a psychological perspective, when people have control over their work lives, they have greater job satisfaction. They don't get burned out as often. And when an employee is trained, then they need some discretion on how they execute their job.”
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Kelly Monahan, Ph.D., is Managing Director of Upwork’s Research Institute, with research published in applied and academic journals. Kelly is the author of “How Behavioral Economics Influences Management Decision-making: A New Paradigm.” She shares insights from studies of strategic leadership and organizational behavior. Kelly urges executives and managers to rethink their approach to work and leading a distributed, blended, and AI-augmented workforce. She emphasizes accessing versus acquiring skilled talent enabling businesses to be agile and compete.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:21] Kelly misses a human element in her business degree so gets into strategic leadership.
[03:10] Kelly aligns with Edward Deming’s thinking that systems are the issue, not the people.
[03:57] Leadership feels broken. As part of her Ph.D., Kelly researches how people learn.
[04:55] Kelly discovers business philosophy is founded on the assumption that people are lazy.
[05:50] Kelly focuses on how leaders can appeal to people’s intrinsic motivations.
[06:31] Early in her career, Kelly works as a media planner during the financial crisis.
[08:55] In 2015, CEOs 3 big worries: more distributed work, blended workforces, AI taking jobs.
[12:05] Leaders struggle to manage distributed and cross-functional teams.
[12:35] Leading through influence, not hierarchy, requires the new power skill, empathy.
[13:13] Most leadership theories derive from the military and don’t translate well for business.
[14:37] Kelly finds more emphasis on empathy in the military than business leadership.
[00:15:19] At Accenture, the pandemic lockdown stops Kelly from announcing a new people-first approach.
[00:17:27] During the crisis, Kelly stress-tests the framework and sees employees’ needs evolve.
[00:19:40] Kelly joins Meta, excited about the possibilities of VR/AR in shaping the future of work.
[00:20:28] Tech companies have location-centric cultures so what is distributed work going to look like?
[21:20] Hands-on, Kelly tries to understand how leadership norms and careers will evolve.
[22:00] Relying on local talent will not be sufficient as engineer must be hired further afield.
[22:50] How Ready Player One expresses some of Kelly’s technology-related fears.
[23:28] Meta focuses on bringing social presence and connections into digital environments.
[24:53] Kelly is bullish about personal connections and realistic human presence in virtual space.
[26:05] Virtual environments could democratize access to learning, but there are trade-offs.
[26:45] Kelly goes to Upwork seeing the urgent need for companies to access skilled external talent.
[28:58] Over 2-3 years, Kelly predicts companies have a more blended talent mix to be more agile.
[31:16] Freelancers tend to stay competitively upskilled compared to full-time employees.
[32:14] GenAI is disrupting tasks, causing leaders to rethink how work is done and by whom.
[35:05] HR strategies do not align with Gen Zers’ desire for diversified work to have financial stability.
[37:05] Kelly advocates more dynamic “talent access” rather than “talent acquisition.”
[39:00] Using an abundant mindset rather than a scarcity ‘war for talent’-type mindset.
[41:00] Kelly highlights NASA which successfully uses external talent to solve big problems.
[42:56] Kelly believes connecting business performance with new ways of working is key for businesses survival.
[45:15] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Rather than thinking of a job when analyzing work, consider ‘what’s the problem I’m trying to solve for?’ Then what are the skills you need to achieve the project and how can AI and skilled freelancers be incorporated as part of the solution?
RESOURCES
Kelly Monahan on LinkedInUpwork
Upwork’s Research Institute
Care to do better Research
QUOTES (edited)“The true power skill today of how people lead—it's not through formal structure, it is through their ability to empathize and move people to move in a direction they otherwise wouldn't.”
“Whether it's transformational leadership or servant leadership or authentic leadership, all these different theories, they really didn't translate well into the business world because so much of it was actually still from a transactional, top down driven approach.”
“Today's need, urgent need, is to help leaders begin to realize that there's really skilled outside talented, that they need to learn how to capture and create the processes and leadership styles and environment to actually bring in this talent in order to continue to navigate the turbulent times we were in.”
“I think the next wave of innovation is going to come from a much more disciplined approach of how companies are organizing their talent, in particular, and beginning to really right size the mix that they need. Skills change too quickly to continue to keep really large, full-time core up to date. It's nearly an impossible task.”
“Freelancers tend to be at the bleeding edge of their skilling. When your livelihood depends on it, you make the time to upskill and learn. We're seeing that with generative AI as being the most recent use case—freelancers are much more ahead of this technology curve.”
“How much is this [Generative AI] actually disrupting work at the task level itself, which is going to cause leaders to rethink ‘How do I actually really need to get this work done? Is it a full time employee or is it a combination of a freelancer and AI working together to get this work delivered?’”
“Leadership and talent in HR strategies have not kept pace with the way that the social contract has changed. When you ask the majority of Gen Z'ers today in particular, ‘Where do you find the more stability? Is it that one to one relationship or is it the one to many?’ The majority of Gen Z are telling us it's the one to many is where they actually feel more stable and they feel more in control of their career.”
“The majority of executives have been taught 'I'm in a war for talent'. When you have that mindset, it's very much a scarcity mindset. Because we're dealing with people and human beings, I encourage much more of a collaborative ecosystem, an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset.”
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John Hopkins PhD is Associate Professor of Supply Chain Management at Swinburne University of Technology. He is also Founder of WorkFLEX which helps people transition to new ways of working. John discusses how his academic involvement in supply chain dynamics and traffic congestion led him to investigate flexible working. He highlights the long-term sustainability of hybrid work, emphasizing its potential to reduce supply chain bottlenecks and improve work-life balance. John discusses Australia's new “Right to Disconnect” law and other countries introducing healthy work boundaries. He predicts work time reduction is the next big work topic.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:08] John starts his working career with a mechanical engineering apprenticeship.
[02:37] John studies mechanical engineering with management, focusing on supply chains.
[03:15] Learning about global business flow working at a car parts supplier.
[04:10] John’s PhD on e-commerce explores emerging virtual marketplaces.
[05:35] A UK defense project John works on uses technology to support fast decision-making.
[06:34] Researching traffic flow, supply chain challenges relate to office-centric work culture.
[07:30] John questions why people are commuting each day to the office.
[08:55] Employees’ tools are no longer city based.
[09:50] John and his partner travel around the world, love Australia and pledge to go back.
[11:40] John’s interest in technologies enabling supply chain communication and collaboration.
[12:20] John wins an innovation fellowship and uses his research on flexible working to launch WorkFLEX.
[13:30] The pandemic hits and John develops online course content to help people adapt.
[15:20] #1: Companies wanted flexible working and reacted quickly given enough motivation.
[16:23] #2: Attitudes and behaviors adapted rapidly as well.
[17:20] #3: 2024 has been a seminal year as hybrid is firmly embedded in Australian work practices.
[18:24] John finds the hybrid compromise to be a win-win.
[19:57] Most companies are not implementing hybrid well, not customizing the model.
[22:00] We need to discuss with employees what work they are doing and where = how.
[24:50] How the pandemic shone a light on the supply chain.
[25:30] John was Mr. Toilet Paper for a while in 2020!
[27:40] Research that combines supply chains and flexible working.
[30:32] Lack of effective risk management in supply chains was highlighted during the crisis.
[32:35] Cities were designed based on people flow—e.g. where water processing is needed.
[33:40] Some of the return to office push is related to investment in city infrastructure.
[36:19] Scale is the biggest issue with supply chains.
[37:10] Technologically sophisticated supply chains are patchworks of thousands of moving parts.
[38:22] We take for granted the relationships that enable us to have easy access to so much.
[39:25] Trust is essential to make the supply chain work.
[41:28] The new “Right to Disconnect” law in Australia comes into effect in August 2024.
[42:25] Before 2009, we actively needed to “connect” to access work outside office hours.
[44:44] The norm of being connected was never specified, so the law is a first healthy boundary on work practices.
[47:40] France’s similar law in 2017 did not reduce productivity and emergencies are excluded.
[48:22] Giving workers confidence to not respond and reverse unhealthy behavioral norms.
[50:04] Governments may not need to create more mandates; flexible work is already in process.
[50:38] The Right to Request Flexibility laws in Singapore and the UK.
[51:25] Next step may be the Four Day Workweek, now ‘work’ is being discussed broadly.
[52:50] The intensification of work combined with longer working hours.
[54:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Keep it simple. Go to the basics. Make decisions based on ‘would the customer care’?
RESOURCES
John Hopkins PhD on LinkedIn
WorkFLEX Australia
John Hopkins PhD press on the “Right to Disconnect”
QUOTES (edited)
“We need to start thinking about what the work is that the people are doing and how often they should come together based on that, not based on anything else.”
“I feel that one thing the pandemic has done is that it's allowed us to have discussions about anything to do with work.”
“Trust is a really big thing. So in terms of supply chain, you need to be able to trust that you are going to get from a supplier what you need when you need it, in the quantity that you need, and the quality that you need.”
“We've got this intensification of work because we have all these tools that do things quicker and quicker for us. We're working more hours and doing more per hour.”
“Let's not have these mandates that just say two days or three days or whatever, with no further thinking or justification behind that. That's going to upset everybody.”
“Looking at flexible and remote work and flexible work arrangements and how that can impact and benefit supply chains. Let's remember that almost every organization has a supply chain. So everybody's got some support in a supply chain somewhere along the line.”
“My big prediction in terms of what will happen next in this whole kind of field is more about work time reduction.“
“It was never written into a policy that I'm aware of where we would say, you will be available to do this, you will be available to do that. It’s a societal norm that has evolved.”
“What this law is doing, or it's certainly taking the first step towards achieving, is putting a boundary around work time and rest time.”
#fourdayworkweek #timereduction #supplychain #hybridmodel #righttodisconnect #australia #bottlenecks #flexibility #flexibleworking #congestion #trafficflow #worklifebalance
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Dan Smolen is the host and executive producer of the "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast and a veteran executive recruiter. He explores how talent dynamics are evolving in the modern workplace as recruiters shift to focus on candidates' ability to adapt, learn continuously, and work collaboratively. Dan shares his insights on early talent’s new definitions of success, their emphasis on work/life balance, and preferences for flexible working. Dan describes how these changes are reshaping recruitment strategies and the critical role of empathy in modern hiring practices.Top of FormBottom of Form
TAKEAWAYS
[02:03] Dan chooses his college based on his interest in broadcasting.
[03:02] The Watergate scandal stimulates Dan’s passion for journalism at high school.
[03:44] Dan's goal was to become a news producer as he loves the news!
[04:53] An internship at Qube during college helps Dan realize broadcasting isn’t a good fit.
[06:16] Mentored by a legend in advertising, Dans focuses on marketing.
[07:31] During his early career, Dan works long hours and deals with difficult creative talent.
[09:04] Dan soon manages significant revenue for a top ad agency.
[10:56] While achieving early success, Dan’s workload impacts his well-being.
[11:57] Offered an interesting and lucrative opportunity, Dan transitions to recruiting and loves it.
[15:51] Recruitment requires deep understanding of both client needs and candidate fit.
[17:15] As clients recover from 9/11, Dan adopts a more human-centric approach to recruiting.
[19:50] LinkedIn's launch in 2003 fosters Dan's consultative recruiting approach.
[23:26] Dan goes deeper into clients' organizational issues and achieves more success.
[25:34] Situational interview techniques better match candidates with new job realities.
[27:28] Fast-paced marketplace changes require recruiting adaptable, lifelong learners.
[29:11] Companies shift from seeking specialized skills to valuing generalists willing to learn.
[32:26] Dan notices the benefits of proactive recruitment, engaging talent before roles open up.
[34:52] Early engagement with prospects helps companies build better, longer-lasting teams.
[37:17] Dan uses a "rent to own" model for testing candidate-company fit when necessary.
[39:53] Dan predicts more entrepreneurship as young people seek flexible work arrangements.
[42:54] Traditional office-based arrangements roles are less appealing to younger generations.
[43:50] Dan decides to end his recruiting career and pursue his passion for podcasting.
[46:22] Dan's relationships with talent were a key driver for his recruiting success.
[47:42] "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast explores what makes work meaningful for individuals.
[49:34] Each guest is asked, "What makes work a wonderful part of your day?"
[51:24] Dan believes people are increasingly seeking meaningful work that balances with life.
[54:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your success is what you make of it. You don’t know where you’re headed. Don’t worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack and enjoy the journey. Even savor the screw-ups, the mess ups and the learning opportunities!
[55:32] Dan emphasizes the importance of hobbies and diverse experiences for a fulfilling life.
[56:04] Engaging with people and creating serendipity are key to living a balanced, inspired life.
RESOURCES
Dan Smolen on LinkedIn
“What’s Your Work Fit?” podcast
Dan Smolen’s website
QUOTES
“The opportunity that we have before us is to impart to workplace entrants like our children's ages, is to say to them that your success is what you make of it. Don't let others define what it means to be successful".
"You don't know where you're headed. You don't know where it's going to lead you. You don't know the milestones along the way. Don't worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack, and enjoy the journey“.
“Savor the screw ups and the mess ups and the learning opportunities, because without those, you're not going to end up in a beautiful place. You've got to have the learning that comes from pain and disappointment and longing in your career so that you grow as a person."
“They look at that and say, that's not a life. I want to have a day where I'm doing work, I'm doing things that I really enjoy, but I may want to do blended things.”
“For the first time that I can recognize, talent look at the day where work is a beautiful part of it.”
"If you don't know how to work on a team now, if you don't know how to be part of something bigger than yourself, I think it's going to be very difficult ongoing.”
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Annie Dean is Vice President and Global Head of Team Anywhere at Atlassian. She oversees their Real Estate and Workplace Experience teams and Team Anywhere Lab—dedicated behavioral scientists focused on designing and validating evidence-based ways of working. Annie is responsible for Atlassian’s shift to a distributed first company. She highlights core elements of their ongoing research-driven, vetted transition supported by strong cultural values. Annie shares Atlassian’s new culture of work practices including rationalizing meetings, pursuing core work, hospitality-focused office operations, and redesigning teams, all facilitated by asynchronous methods and AI.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:43] Annie attributes her diverse interests to her liberal arts family upbringing.
[03:30] Annie is interested in what society values, how it expresses itself, and how people change it.
[04:00] At law school, Annie realizes she doesn’t want to be a lawyer while appreciating the educational benefits.
[05:05] A busy lawyer and new mother, Annie’s set up is not working for her.
[06:40] Does the system need to change or Annie? She decides it is the system.
[07:15] A seminal article questions assumptions about women not reaching leadership positions.
[08:01] Co-founding Werk, Annie helps companies assess non-traditional work opportunities.
[08:32] Pre-pandemic there is significant demand for flexible working.
[10:26] Annie finds strong interest in disrupting norms to resolve known work-related issues.
[11:05] Data is crucial to try and convince CEOs to align with and adopt new ways of working.
[12:39] From 2016 to 2020, office culture peaks, with limited progress on workplace flexibility.
[13:25] Research identifies common pain points including commuting, care-giving, and wellness.
[14:20] Access to flexibility can address widespread pain felt by ambitious high-performers.
[15:32] Pre-pandemic, technology disrupts consumer not working behaviors—resulting in insufficient will to change work practices.
[16:16] Annie cowrites an article positing that a pandemic would force adoption of remote work.
[20:05] The ease of transitioning to remote work during the pandemic proves the potential of existing technologies.
[20:35] Employees are not surprised they could work well remotely—it’s a more human way to work.
[21:10] Atlassian’s shift to distributed-first aligns with its business and the co-founders’ long-term expectations about work.
[22:04] The modern culture of work at Atlassian focuses on reducing meetings, prioritizing core work, facilitated by asynchronous methods and AI-driven norms.
[24:07] Atlassian's values are the backbone of how the company runs and inform how people treat each other.
[25:50] Sharing research and vetted practices, Atlassian helps others update their culture of work.
[27:22] Key shifts include new ways to connect, operate offices, design teams, and organize work.
[28:35] Atlassian emphasizes intentional togetherness and a hospitality approach to office use.
[29:00] Designing teams by time zones and capturing organic changes in daily work habits.
[30:28] Modern culture of work practices emphasize effective meetings and prioritize core work.
[30:50] Asynchronous methods and AI tools enable meeting rationalization and effective working.
[32:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Create conversations that prompt experimentation new ways of working are addictive. They feel good. People will adopt quickly because once they try, they get it.
[33:54] Clear and effective business writing is vital in a distributed work environment.
[35:35] The transition to tech-driven, distributed work is inevitable.
[36:35] Resistance to using steel in construction mirrors current resistance to work changes.
[38:22] Annie notices a technology gap for taking full advantage of modern work opportunities which easy-to-use AI can now fill.
[39:40] Annie is optimistic about technology enabling more efficient and flexible working.
RESOURCES
Annie Dean on LinkedIn
Atlassian’s website
Lessons Learned: 1000 days of distributed at Atlassian
Smart Brevity by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwarz
QUOTES
"Data is the only thing that will convince a CEO that a change needs to happen."
“From 2012 to 2020, it was clear that technology was disrupting all our consumer behavior, and yet it wasn't disrupting our working behaviors. It was very clear to me that this different future was possible. It just didn't seem like there was enough will in the executive teams that I was working with to really make the holistic change.”
"Because the pandemic was so overwhelming and distracting in many ways, these strategic questions of what a new culture of work should look like were left behind. We are now in 2024 and able to start answering those questions.”
“We've adapted a really unique set of practices that helps us manage across time zones and manage in a distributed environment. It's those practices and our products that really carry us forward as a distributed company.”
"The office is not required to get work done though they will continue to be great community spaces to work from."
"We realize that the modern culture of work is that we replace most meetings, we know what work really matters, and we organize ourselves to pursue core work, not work about work, and each of those things is facilitated by asynchronous behaviors and AI driven norms."
"Using new practices, I think we unlock the power of technology and the Internet and AI to build a new culture of work."
"Once people try these new ways of working, they adopt them very quickly because they are addictive in that they feel really good."
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Daan van Rossum is Founder and CEO of FlexOS where they are building a 21st Century work experience that enables people to learn, grow, connect, and thrive at work. He also hosts and runs the “Lead with AI” podcast, course, and community. Daan shares his tech-driven early education and jobs that underpin his emphasis on AI and integrating AI teammates and advisors effectively. He explains his proactive career steps working internationally, developing cultural understanding and tapping into ‘What If’ creative energy to achieve more fulfilling work experiences. Daan describes his learning journey and how we can all intentionally engage in meaningful work and achieve greater happiness.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:28] At 15 years old, Daan decides he prefers working to being at school.
[03:17] Daan persuades his parents and the government and gets an exception to leave school.
[04:22] Daan begins his career at an ISP help desk then an early online food delivery business.
[05:59] After producing a family ‘newspaper’, Daan’s online help page gets attention and lands him a digital media job.
[09:13] The transition to Ogilvy is motivated by a desire to land a ‘real job’!
[09:54] After moving to New York, Daan wins an internal talent competition asking ‘What If?’
[12:36] Daan makes proactive internal moves at Ogilvy to Chicago, then Singapore.
[14:00] Using his strategist skills, Daan transitions internationally learning about local cultures.
[15:15] Daan is entranced by Vietnam’s young society and optimistic, high energy.
[16:20] How Singapore developed fast integrating behavioral psychology nudges.
[16:53] Daan moves to Vietnam and discovers the two-world experiences of young employees.
[19:17] Co-founding a venture, Daan focuses on workplace happiness, fulfillment, and wellbeing through storytelling and courses.
[22:13] Daan studies wide-ranging topics relating to happiness, psychology, leadership, and more.
[23:13] The happiness-related content business is not viable in a developing market.
[23:55] The monetizable model integrating well-being content into coworking spaces.
[25:54] Key learnings about happiness to incorporate into DreamPlex's workplace offerings.
[31:16] Ensuring services align with what Gen Zers want in Vietnam.
[33:00] A 4-month pandemic lockdown in Vietnam affects Dream Plex and how they got through it.
[34:55] The challenges of hybrid working models in Vietnam compared to Singapore which was highly-digitized before 2020.
[38:35] Transitioning from agricultural to professional work settings and trust issues at work.
[42:10] The opportunity to align personal goals with organizational needs.
[43:15] The importance of intentionality in career and life decisions, especially now.
[45:30] Creating happier, productive workplaces by listening to employees and optimizing workflows.
[48:15] Self-awareness surfaces personal work preferences allowing alignment with job roles.
[52:20] Understanding how companies work reduces misunderstandings and misplaced entitlements.
[53:45] Optimizing time at work and using AI to not waste valuable hours.
[55:40] AI as your senior advisor, especially when no one else is around!
[56:15] How/what kids are learning differently now and AI’s potential future role/integration.
[58:12] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To improve work experiences, go back to the core. What you are doing and why. Are you doing it well? Do you believe what you are doing is meaningful? Practically, empathize and listen to your team members discovering the joy and toil in their workflows to map out and solve issues together.
RESOURCES
Daan van Rossum on LinkedIn
FlexOS.work
Lead with AI podcast, course, and community
Laurie Santos
Martin Seligman books
QUOTES
"Could we ask 'What If' more? Instead of trying to focus on all these new channels trying to be innovative. Could we make this even better? So it was really more about the core of creativity and about curiosity."
"You have to find your happiness in the here and now. If you slow down and look around, all your conditions for happiness are already here…Happiness is very makeable. It's not something that either happens to you or you're born with it. It's something you determine almost 100% yourself."
"If two years from today someone makes a movie about your life, what would it be called? What would it be about? What would they showcase as your journey and what you've achieved?"
"There’s this concept called the hedonic treadmill... once you have [achieved a goal], there may be a temporary moment where you feel good. But the deeper sense of happiness has to come from something bigger."
"See AI as a coworker that first and foremost can take over all the parts of your job that you don't like doing and are not getting you closer to your goal."
"AI can start to be a senior advisor. It can be someone that co-creates with you, especially in those moments where you're on your own and need guidance or a second opinion."
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Corinne Murray is Chief Strategist and Founder of Agate, an organizational transformation and workplace strategy consultancy. Corinne brings her formative experiences in commercial real estate, workplace strategy, and pre-pandemic implementations of remote and hybrid work models. She shares the benefits of empathizing with employees’ and executives’ different work experiences and explains how experiences inform culture. Corinne advocates for incremental, measurable steps to reduce workplace friction, improve performance, shift mindsets, and build momentum to effect change.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:18] Corinne studies religious studies and philosophy learning about different cultures.
[03:31] Leaving college at the end of the Great Recession, Corinne starts in real estate.
[03:53] Corinne focuses on market research and repositioning older buildings at CBRE.
[05:22] It’s déjà vu with real estate trends!
[05:34] Moving to American Express, Corinne shifts to workplace strategy and culture change.
[06:37] Amex facilitates workplace flexibility and remote working in 2013-2014.
[08:14] Corinne help employees transition to remote work addressing home setup challenges.
[10:22] The Blue Work program aims to create consistent brand experiences in all Amex offices.
[12:09] Post 2008, real estate strategy focuses on efficiency and densification.
[13:32] Workplace design and environments are adapted to different teams’ needs.
[14:10] Desk booking capabilities are implemented to reduce friction and improve flexibility.
[15:12] Reinstituting Blue Work with user-friendly changes and active listening.
[16:16] Desk booking is eliminated having caused—rather than eliminated—friction.
[17:39] Neighborhood seating naturally supports teams and flexible desk usage.
[19:15] Corinne join Gensler to explore the external advisory role.
[20:48] How UX/UI is applicable to workplace strategy.
[21:31] Joining WeWork, Corinne helps prepare the company for the Future of Work.
[24:16] The holistic employee experience extends beyond the physical space.
[25:07] The importance of good employee experiences to increase productivity.
[26:32] Frameworks for improving workplace environments through UX principles.
[28:23] Ensured basic workplace needs are met to reduce mental load and enhance productivity.
[29:58] Joining RXR Realty in February 2020, the pandemic impacts Corinne’s intended work.
[31:42] How Activity-Based Working supports different work activities.
[33:06] Corinne’s understanding of city dynamics changes her view of Central Business Districts’ viability.
[36:24] How reduced foot traffic affects commercial real estate.
[38:02] Corinne recognizes the shift in employee sentiments and work-life balance priorities.
[41:55] Executives different work experiences lead to their challenges with hybrid models.
[45:06] Millennials are driving change because of where they are in their careers and need for balance.
[52:02] Executive resistance to hybrid work can be reduced emphasizing data and gradual change.
[55:36] Corinne encourages an incremental approach to effect organizational change.
[56:20] “Hybrid work is broken” — what does Corinne mean by that?
[58:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Consider the dynamics of hybrid work and why it happens rather than just where it happens. Sequence and shuffle the puzzle pieces to figure out what needs to be decided first.
RESOURCES
Corinne Murray on LinkedIn
Corinne’s company Agate’s website
QUOTES (edited)
"We can't decide what a culture is. We can decide what an experience is and what that collective experience amounts to is the culture."
"We are getting stuck focusing on where things happen, not why they happen, or how they can be done better."
"Executives lived experience is so radically different than everyone else in their organization, and yet they're the ones who are dictating how everyone else should be behaving."
"If we just assume that everyone wants to be productive, even if everyone's definition of it is different, how do we get stuff out of the way so people can do more of it."
"Hybrid is broken....Our application of it is what's broken. And why it's broken is because we have been almost exclusively focused on where hybrid happens rather than what are the dynamics of hybrid work."
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Tim Oldman is the CEO of Leesman and Founder of the Leesman Index - the world leader in measuring and analyzing the experiences of employees in their places of work. Tim is an expert in user experience of the built environment. He explains why we need to be considering whether work environments are supporting employees’ activities, needs, and satisfaction. Tim brings his wealth of knowledge to explore and reveal how workplaces—wherever people work—are tools for organizational performance and how we can measure that.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:25] Having always enjoyed building things, Tim studies interior design at college.
[02:51 Tim opts for a shorter course in interior design admitting he is impatient!
[03:22] Tim would love to study at university now with rapid prototyping and other advances.
[04:00] Encouraged by his uncle and tutor, Tim secures his first design job at 16.
[05:36] Tim first works in transport design, realizing the impact of design on bus stations and airports.
[07:06] The attention and detailed science in every aspect of airport design, including signage legibility.
[08:08] Tim wants to apply more and more rigor and science as his career develops.
[09:33] Tim discovers retail design is more numerically driven that he had understood earlier.
[11:27] The shift in retail emphasizing the shopper's brand experience.
[13:26] Tim's time at Vitra exposes him to extraordinary design history and expertise.
[14:20] It was a mind-boggling experience to work on the campus every day for five years!
[15:10] The user-centric design of a new distribution center makes Tim energized and very curious.
[17:22] Using transport examples to illustrate the importance of employee-centric office design.
[18:48] Developing the Leesman Index, Tim encounters naysayers to begin with.
[19:46] Initially provocative, “space is a tool in organizational performance” sticks.
[20:59] How space is a tool in organizational performance.
[21:48] Contrary to expectations, the design community initially resists the Leesman Index.
[23:07] A friend’s referral leads to the first successful deployment of the Index.
[23:36] The index reveals engineers’ preference for compressed, energetic workspaces.
[24:41] The facilities management industry becomes a key user.
[25:02] Executive leadership teams appreciate data-driven insights.
[26:43] Tim describes the Index's methodology and its impact on workplace design.
[27:50] The Leesman index measures employee activities and their satisfaction with workplace features.
[29:41] ‘Sentiment Superdrivers’ are crucial to accommodate to achieve workplace satisfaction.
[32:54] The importance of supporting individual focused work.
[33:29] The pandemic highlights the inadequacies of traditional office designs.
[35:52] Many organizations are now seeking to improve their offices to better support employee needs.
[36:44] The rise of video conferencing underscores the need for better acoustic and visual privacy.
[38:12] Organizations increasingly seek to create offices that employees genuinely want to visit.
[39:45] Tim’s new venture aims to help clients improve both remote and office-based work environments.
[42:31] Commute satisfaction correlates with the quality of the office environment.
[45:28] The shift towards higher-quality, more amenity-rich office spaces.
[47:40] Standard Chartered Bank exemplifies successful office space reduction while enhancing quality.
[49:24] Tim advocates for clearly articulating the purpose of office spaces.
[52:15] How Facilities Management can create more technologically advanced, smarter buildings.
[54:09] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Use evidence and be real, conversational, human. Find out what impacts the human experience as the human dynamic is motivational guidance. Live a day in the life of a frontline employee, experience it yourself.
RESOURCES
Tim Oldman on LinkedIn
Leesman’s website
QUOTES
"Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance of the companies that we're working with.”
"I would leave work in a day feeling more energized than I arrived there in the morning. And I wanted to know why, fundamentally, I couldn't work it out. And that was really where the ideas behind Leesman and the idea of a measurement protocol started to seep through."
“It's all economics driven. Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance.”
"Having thought about your day at work in the way that you have, can you tell us what you think about the following things in relation to your workplace? So, does it enable you to work productively? Are you proud of it? Do you enjoy it? Do you think it supports your organization's environmental sustainability standpoint?”
I think the bigger a workplace gets, the harder it is to satisfy everybody, because the more people are in it, the more variability there is in the work that they do and their personalities and their size and their demeanor and all the other things that make us different than individual human beings."
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George Bradt is the Founder and Chair of PrimeGenesis, an executive onboarding and transition acceleration consultancy. He has authored many books including “The New Leader’s 100-day Action Plan.” George brings his international senior management experience, including witnessing and welcoming new leaders and team members into many large multinational corporations. He shares his experiences highlighting the importance of corporate cultural assimilation and relationship building for new hires. George explains when and how onboarding optimally starts and ends and how to update the process for a distributed workforce.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:30] After studying economics, George starts in sales working for an industry leader.
[04:02] George brings a successful, different approach to selling.
[04:54] George moves to Procter and Gamble, the academy company for marketing at the time.
[06:36] The success of a multi-step process for his sales team at Unilever starts George realizing what onboarding means.
[08:39] At Procter and Gamble, it was all purposeful, disciplined onboarding.
[07:05] How ongoing support and alignment are crucial for the success of new hires beyond the initial onboarding period.
[09:10] He challenges the traditional notion of onboarding being limited to the first day, week, or month.
[10:30] Deliberate efforts are necessary to build relationships and company culture in distributed work environments.
[14:00] George's Forbes article gets much feedback about corporate cultures with distributed workforces.
[17:02] Onboarding new hires effectively is essential for productivity and retention.
[20:30] Coca Cola does not have a copy strategy while George is there.
[21:50] George explains his shift towards focusing on onboarding after realizing an unmet need in the industry.
[23:11] The four main ideas of effective onboarding.
[24:35] Why a structured onboarding plan before Day One matters.
[26:00] Consider an onboarding scenario, highlighting the different sentiments and expectations.
[27:20] Building relationships before starting a new job to set a positive initial dynamic.
[28:45] How leaders can onboard new team members, aligning and accomodating them.
[30:10] He suggests companies allow new hires to conduct due diligence before officially accepting a job offer.
[32:00] Transparency and providing necessary resources are crucial from Day One.
[33:25] George shares his experience with Procter and Gamble's rigorous and specific onboarding process, including the one-page memo format.
[34:50] After six years at Procter and Gamble, George contemplates staying forever.
[38:00] George explains experiences at Coca Cola that led him to focus on onboarding.
[39:40] He notes that despite Coca Cola's history, they had a flawed onboarding process for new hires.
[41:10] The importance of understanding and co-creating the ideal future culture with your team.
[42:30] He suggests that leaders should pay more attention to onboarding and actively create personal onboarding plans for new employees.
[44:00] To support onboardin cultural rituals are important to understand.
[45:15] He emphasizes aligning new hires with the current culture before co-creating an ideal future culture.
[46:30] George points out the lack of attention to onboarding by leaders and the need for their involvement in the process.
[47:50] He concludes by highlighting the importance of focusing on culture and relationships in a hybrid work environment.
IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: As soon as possible after someone accepts their new position, before Day One on the job, get their manager to sit down with them to co-create the person’s own personal onboarding plan, particularly emphasizing culture and building relationships.
RESOURCES
George Bradt on LinkedIn
Prime Genesis website
George’s book “The New Leader’s 100-Day Action Plan”
QUOTES
"The one most important idea is you have to converge into an organization or a team before you try to evolve it. You have to become part of the team and evolve it from the inside."
“If you're onboarding somebody who's working remotely, you've got to be incredibly deliberate and invest so much time in building the relationships."
"Give them the time, give them clarity of direction, give them the resources, and then eventually give them the authority they needed to do what they needed to do."
"All that matters is relationships. Any question, any meeting, you know, the answer to any question is you're caring about building relationships."
"Acquire them in the way that's going to work going forward, accommodate them so that they can do work, assimilate them so they can work with others, and then stick with it and help them accelerate."
"Ultimately, culture is the way people behave, the way they relate, their attitudes, their values, the environment. What's different with remote work is how deliberate you have to be about relationships."
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Allison Vendt is Senior Director, People Operations (Virtual First, People PMO, People Analytics) at Dropbox. She shares key reasons and research behind Dropbox’s transformation to ‘Virtual First’ starting with an office-centric culture. Allison discusses insights since the initial design phase and implementation including the change management required. She explains the ongoing evolution of the company’s virtual first approach to the Future of Work as they continue to pilot, learn, and iterate. Allison describes how they create high impact employees’ experiences with emphasis on culture, connections, and community.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:38] Allison quickly discovers law school is not for her and finds American studies fascinating.
[04:00] Allison wants to do something creative and starts working in media planning.
[04:55] Wanting more daily impact on people, Allison does a graduate degree in education.
[05:16] Allison was a student athlete herself – a swimmer.
[06:20] As an academic advisor, Allison runs orientation, tutoring, and development programs as well as coaching and counseling.
[06:48] Intrigued by Silicon Valley, while at Stanford, Allison runs a technology-integrated program for entrepreneurs.
[08:46] Parallels between high-achieving student athletes and Allison's current coworkers.
[10:19] Starting her first job in tech, Allison feels at home at once thanks to Dropbox's culture.
[11:24] While the L&D group transitions, Allison is open to experimenting and shifts role.
[13:18] Exploring how employees can own their careers through personal growth plans.
[14:08] More current focus on mentorship and skills.
[15:30] Pandemic shifts give Allison ‘Virtual First’ as her first strategy and operations project.
[16:40] Before 2020, Dropbox explores remote work while having an office-centric culture.
[18:02] The company's mission is relevant as they become intentional about reinventing what modern work looks like.
[20:44] Mindset shifts for virtual first, prioritizing human connection and adopting asynchronous by default
[22:22] Research on effective distributed work principles focused on an asynchronous by default mindset and upskilling everyone.
[23:48] Needing to reinvent everything, one work stream is dedicated to culture and community.
[24:57] Investing in cultural tethers and touchpoints that connect people and drive belonging include a neighborhood program with local relevant events.
[26:53] A mentoring program helps build weak ties, reinventing core elements for Virtual First.
[27:54] The empowering essence and elements of Dropbox’s self-serve mindset and strategy.
[29:48] Investing in training managers who play a critical role in distributed work effectiveness.
[30:52] Iterative ongoing piloting and learning with an open source Virtual First toolkit.
[32:19] Research drives the decision not to choose hybrid to avoid creating two employee experiences.
[34:06] Being transparent about choices and principles, Virtual First still wasn't for everyone, but some have returned.
[34:46] Virtual First is executed with a learning mindset, just like Dropbox builds products.
[35:26] Change management is critical for the organizational transformation.
[36:30] Onboarding is overhauled and refined—identifying synchronous and self-paced aspects.
[37:29] What are the frameworks for success? How to make Virtual First work for you.
[39:14] The potential for AI to reduce friction at work starting with AI training.
[40:40] Potential AI opportunities as behaviors and tools must go hand in hand to get more focus time and flow time.
[42:35] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Consider virtual first over hybrid. Whatever the size of your organization, you can adapt the core framework appropriately. Try a virtual first approach with one unit of your company to see if it could work. The benefits of happy productive employees outweigh the challenges.
RESOURCES
Allison Vendt on LinkedIn
Dropbox on LinkedIn
Dropbox on Instagram
Dropbox on X
QUOTES edited
“We really had to take this opportunity to reinvent what modern work looked like.”
“We wanted to do our due diligence. We came up with a set of guiding principles that four years later continue to guide the work. It was really important for us to be intentional about what we were doing to have a solid design to kick us off.”
“Virtual First means we work remotely, that's our primary orientation of work. But we do prioritize human connection. We really believe there's just no replacement for that face-to-face in-person connection.”
“We had to reinvent how we work. All the research that we had done on effective distributed work principles was leading with an asynchronous by default mindset that we had to get really good at.”
“We try to think about meetings being for debate, decision making, and discussion, not about status updates, for example, which you can easily do asynchronously.”
“We were very clear we need to reinvent everything, including looking at our culture.”
"We've done a lot of transformation around the knowledge management piece. So much about Virtual First is about empowerment -- individual empowerment."
“The role of the manager is so critical in any workplace, but certainly in a distributed environment. So we've invested a lot in manager training, making sure that all of our Virtual First principles, research that we're learning and insights that we have are getting are embedded into our manager training.”
"We deliberately elected not to adopt a hybrid model that was based on the research that we had done. Ultimately, we felt like leveraging a hybrid model was going to create two different experiences for employees."
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Ryan Anderson is Vice President of Global Research and Insights at MillerKnoll leading research and providing workplace strategy and application design advisory services. He also hosts MillerKnoll’s “About Place” podcast. With much experience at the intersection of workplace research, innovation, and technology, Ryan discusses evolving working needs un/tethered by technology. He explains how urban landscaping concepts support human-centric office-based design. Ryan recommends incremental office improvements to match evolving work needs and change management to support any facility update.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:19] A random decision to study marketing, however Ryan finds he loves the audience focus.
[03:55] In furniture product development, Ryan finds the commercialization process tough, but learns a lot.
[04:24] Ryan is drawn to the conceptual phases, empathizing to understand unmet needs.
[06:07] How West Michigan has a concentration of workplace design companies.
[06:54] Ryan grew up thinking furniture was boring but learns how much more there is to it.
[08:35] In Chicago, Ryan meets his wife and studies purpose-driven business and ethics-based leadership.
[10:27] Ryan transitions to a corporate/design role as technology integration changes work settings.
[11:19] Commercial interior design and Ryan respond to employees’ new technology setups.
[13:14] A history lover, Ryan describes key design people and an office landscape movement.
[13:37] The fascinating use of urban planning principles for office landscaping.
[14:30] Desk-based workers’ needs drive workspace planning and fuel industry growth.
[15:00] The original goal of the cubicle—to provide workplace variety!
[16:08] Workspaces need to evolve to keep in tempo with work.
[17:07] Tech trends dictated earlier workplace constraints and are now releasing us from them.
[18:36] Understanding evergreen needs while envisioning and maturing ideas through experimentation.
[20:00] Ryan moves company to align with designing for the tech user not the technology.
[21:42] Mid-2010’s, The Living Office anticipates and amplifies the consumerization of technology.
[22:52] Partnering with big tech companies to revisit office landscaping for the modern era.
[23:40] Exploring ‘prop tech’ – the technological evolution of the building – smart buildings.
[24:30] Sensors and other tech enhancements start to personalize office experiences.
[25:00] The SaaS business model interest Ryan who joins a fast-growing prop tech venture.
[26:18] Ryan shifts focus to changing digitized work experiences rather than tech integration.
[26:59] The workplace ‘product’ must support diverse teams’ evolving digitalized work needs.
[31:08] Douglas McGregor’s framework of Theory X and Theory Y management.
[32:45] With distributed work, designing spaces to supervise work is unrealistic.
[33:58] Community building and urban planning are enabling an ecosystem of people.
[34:51] Optimizing for office-based work activities, such as for longer form collaboration.
[35:53] What do offices best provide – structured collaboration and focused concentration?
[37:03] Understand teams operating in a facility to address their changing activities and needs.
[38:25] Not many organizations are supporting their employees’ home working settings yet.
[39:51] The prospect of major projects and expensive capital are stalling renovation plans.
[42:03] Service As A Space concepts also involve investing in space that evolves over time.
[43:55] AI has the potential to create safer, healthier, smarter buildings.
[44:56] The possibilities of AI tools to augment the design process.
[48:28] Work is best determined by a social contract that’s beneficial not location-based or too restrictive.
[49:52] Ryan shares how his team updates their team working agreement protocols.
[50:49] Rewind assumptions to consider old and new ideas to support teams’ needs.
[51:10] Neighborhood-based planning allows connectedness, attachment, and scalability.
[54:18] New office landscaping uses neighborhoods similarly to 15-minute cities.
[55:00] Why strong and weak ties matter.
[50:49] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Real estate strategies follow talent—so develop incremental office improvements that purposefully encourage connection and interaction. Create in-office neighborhoods to support teams’ sense of community and belonging with flexibility for regular updates responding to evolving work needs.
RESOURCES
Ryan Anderson on LinkedIn
MillerKnoll’s website
MillerKnoll on Instagram
HermanMiller on Instagram
Knoll on Instagram
HMInsightGroup on X
MillerKnoll on X
Douglas McGregor’s framework of Theory X and Theory Y
QUOTES (edited)
“We're all looking at what is the post desktop, post cubicle era of working looks like.”
“You design for the technology user, not the technology. You have to understand the patterns of behavior, even though the tool sets evolve.”
“Recognizing that our work experiences are increasingly becoming digitized and virtual, the work is becoming digital, but that we're physical beings and physical spaces. We need to figure out how to allow people to exist in these physical spaces and use those tech tools in a really healthy, fun, productive way.”
“Facility managers and corporate real estate leaders are product owners that own the product—the workplace. The focus is on helping them better understand their teams, the diverse nature of those teams, the evolving nature of the work, and trying to conceptualize a space that gets better over time.”
“Regardless of your inherent perspectives on management, the thought of using a space to supervise work in an era of digitized distributed work is extremely unrealistic.”
“What can this space do to help our employees to collaborate in new ways, offer them experiences they can't have at home. That is a healthy and better approach. It's just complicated. It's more complicated than saying, well line 'em up in rows so that I can watch them effectively.”
“It’s urban planning. We’re taking these principles, we’re bringing them inside the building. We’re enabling an ecosystem of people.”
“Any facilities project is a change management project, and any real estate strategy has to follow talent.”
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Jenny He is the Founder, CEO, and licensed contractor at Ergeon, a construction company making home renovation easier for consumers and contractors. Jenny combines her strong engineering, technology, and consulting background to convert and facilitate contractors’ construction projects as well as to manage Ergeon’s fully distributed workforce. She applies a consistent, rigorous approach to contracted project progress and outcomes as well as to evaluating individual employees’ task and teamwork results. Jenny shares her thoughtful analysis of how productivity can be assessed and tracked appropriately for specific disciplines, teams, and individuals.
TAKEAWAYS
[03:15] Jenny is born in China to parents who are both engineers.
[03:53] Jenny moves to the UK at 10 years old as her father pursues research and his PhD.
[04:48] The family moves to Canada and Jenny studies electrical engineering at college.
[05:24] Enjoying solving hard problems, Jenny's PhD optimizes Internet routing protocols.
[07:23] A random situation results in Jenny becoming a consultant and joining McKinsey.
[08:37] Learning leadership and soft skills, Jenny follows good managers, not projects.
[09:34] The hardest part is not solving the problem but defining the right problem to solve.
[11:42] Jenny discovers insufficient technology is built to support skills tradespeople.
[13:00] Jenny proposes a useful solution for a skilled field tech—how else can she help?
[13:59] EZ Home’s app gamifies workflow for gardening service providers.
[15:28] The CTO/Founder of EZ Home also co-founded Odesk and has great relevant experience.
[16:22] Tackling physical work projects is even harder than Odesk’s business.
[16:48] Why the technology needs to be more mature for the new venture.
[19:29] Jenny wants to empower high skilled trade entrepreneurs.
[20:50] Renovating her home, Jenny plans and uses technology and has a positive experience!
[23:02] The name Ergeon captures the vision of the company.
[25:07] Measuring customers’ experiences is a key productivity metric.
[28:12] Jenny takes project complexity into account and assesses contributions to set prices.
[29:09] How Jenny's business takes care of most front- and back-office construction coordination.
[36:06] Creating a scalable, full distributed factory with an iterative communication process.
[31:02] Scalable groups perform tasks with construction knowledge embedded into the technology.
[32:28] They identify specific skills to hire for and teach the rest.
[33:25] Is the unit of productivity the team or the individual?
[34:55] To measure productivity, there often need to be sufficient similar jobs to compare.
[36:44] Onboarding is very deliberate since Ergeon hires many people with no experience.
[37:32] In the first few days, new hires are trained about processes and best practices.
[38:44] Role-playing in initial weeks’ boot camps increase knowledge and confidence.
[40:25] Onboarding timeframes and programs depend on the type and complexity of the role.
[42:30] Distributed working issue #1: Building trust is hard.
[43:15] Transparency is important to avoid a tiered system of senior execs and everyone else.
[44:12] Distributed work issue #2: Mitigating time zones using async methods and alignment.
[45:13] Distributed work issue #3: Interpersonal connections need purposeful nurturing.
[47:03] How to evaluate individuals whose productivity is measured at a team level.
[50:34] Technology progress leads to reskilling, evolving roles, and supported outplacement.
[53:27] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To measure productivity, start with performance and assess variation between identical roles. Address systematic challenges hindering goal achievement including employees’ access to suitable tools before identifying productivity measures and ensure people have the training and support to focus their efforts.
[54:48] Jenny is revising for multiple exams so Ergeon can operate in many more U.S. states.
RESOURCES
Jenny He on LinkedIn
Ergeon’s website
Ergeon on Instagram
Ergeon on X
Ergeon on Facebook
QUOTES (edited)
“Often the hardest part isn't solving the problem, but defining what is the right problem to solve.”
“We also have other teams in the company like supply ops because it's a small team. we're looking at the team level targets and productivity versus the individual. Because I do believe, unless you have say five plus people doing exactly the same job, they can't be having some different variants of the job.”
“Building trust is hard, and it is harder in a distributed environment.”
“We are trying to create a scaleable factory where no one’s co-located.”
“We do a lot of async communications and make to make [work] sustainable for people. We're generally thoughtful about hiring for specific roles where async work is easier.”
On connection, “It's not even just about distributed or not, it's if everyone is co-located, it happens somewhat naturally. When you can't not see other people and have casual conversations, it has to be then very purposeful to create that environment. To give people that opportunity to connect.”
“Start with performance, before you think about productivity. Understand how much variation you have within the exact same roles. If the delta is huge, what is causing the delta—are there systematic challenges that make it difficult for people to achieve their goals?”
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Dart Lindsley is Strategic Advisor, People Experience at Google. He is also a writer, speaker, and host of the Work for Humans podcast – on a mission to humanize work. Dart share insights about his realization that businesses are multisided marketplaces where employees are (overlooked) customers of work and work is a product. To better design the work product, Dart recognizes teams’ agency and ability to allocate their attention among themselves to complete tasks effectively. He discusses a flipped org chart with managers in supportive, rather than authoritative, roles. Dart advocates for more leadership closest to the customer.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:05] Dart is an undergraduate for seven years partly because his brother told him never to graduate!
[03:47] Dart explores unpopular forms of writing which makes earning a living hard.
[04:37] Being a criminal defense investigator rearranges Dart’s soul.
[06:45] After a master’s degree, Dart becomes a recruiter to earn more as he starts a family.
[08:34] Dart’s family are scientists, so his career transitioned to analytical work after a recruiting downturn.
[09:49] Dart inserts himself into the team doing strategic work designing the new staffing system.
[10:52] Finding a home in analytical disciplines which are less burdensome and emotional.
[12:26] Dart explores tooling, UX, change management and Six Sigma, ending up with organizational design.
[13:36] Facilitating business architecture resonates with Dart who is very interested in how large systems create experiences.
[15:03] Companies are ‘n’ dimensional: humans cannot observe them or handle more than 3 dimensions.
[15:49] Human Resources had not been analyzed from a business architecture point of view before.
[17:03] Business architecture is only needed for companies going through significant transformation to discover new operational capabilities needs and how they interrelate.
[18:08] Translating strategic capability requirements into tech systems and architecture is not easy.
[20:48] Business architecture change derives from either market changes or new tech capabilities—as now.
[21:20] The pace layer of technology is usually the slowest thing. Not now, so much experimentation is needed.
[22:35] Dart initially subscribes to the traditional model of HR where employees are the inputs of production.
[23:48] Employee has happiness has not been a concern—only productivity which Dart finds ethically flawed.
[25:10] Dart notices ‘employees’ show up in two places—inside (production inputs) and outside (customers).
[25:59] Working on a patent for Cisco, Dart explores multi-sided businesses and realizes employees are also (forgotten) customers.
[28:25] If employees are customers, what are we selling them? We need to design work better.
[29:03] Do people want only autonomy, mastery and purpose? Dart finds 35+ more answers!
[30:15] People usually want 8 things from work. Only 4 likely overlap, so how to optimize individually?
[31:05] Lack of autonomy is a cost of a job, like social anxiety and threats to health and safety.
[32:33] Managers are key to a design-centered solution.
[33:28] Design is about empathy, understanding employees’ needs, scaling with managers below on the org chart.
[34:10] Managers are brokers between demand for the team’s labor and the market for work—the work people want to do.
[37:10] A team can act as a smart organism allocating its attention to work and delivering value.
[38:32] Color coding how rewarding work is—green, yellow, and red. What happens when colors change.
[39:41] The range of issues and solutions affecting the cost side of work.
[42:14] How do we design our lives so as not to be ‘inputs of production’?
[43:31] How a team agrees on what business value is and the core mission.
[44:25] Is the manager winning the work the team wants to do? And the type of client the team wants?
[47:10] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To enable a dexterous organization, let the edges closest to the customers lead. Giving more agency to the agents will facilitate guided emergence, while anchoring your organization with values, purpose, and focus.
RESOURCES
Dart Lindsley on LinkedIn
Dart’s website
Dart’s Work for Humans podcast
Bill Burnet’s book “Designing Your Life”
QUOTES (edited)
“if you're an input to production and my main objective is to make you productive, then if I can make you productive by being happy, great. But, if I can make you productive and you're miserable, great. It's not a concern.”
“The only reason I'm going to care about a human is because of what they give me as a company? It just struck me as like ethically flawed.”
“For the first 10 years of working in HR, I subscribed to the traditional model of HR which is that employees are inputs of production who must be acquired.”
“If employees are customers, what are we selling them? We’re selling them work. If work’s a product, then it’s a design problem and we can design it better.”
“Managers are designers, even ‘product’ managers. [They act] as a broker between two markets. One market is the demand for the labor of the team—so the value that flows towards the traditional customer. The other is the market for work and the work that people want to do.”
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Melissa Puls is the Chief Marketing Officer and SVP of Customer Success at Ivanti which provides software solutions that elevate and secure EverywhereWork. Melissa brings deep experience building and leading decentralized teams. She shares her critical learnings that have enabled effective teamwork and successful outcomes. Melissa discusses key principles when implementing flexibility, the importance of change management, and how to identify non-performing remote team members. Melissa describes the holistic support distributed employees need, especially including IT and security.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:27] Melissa studies communications and psychology not realizing their connection with marketing.
[03:40] Melissa’s mother is head of marketing at a tech company teaching Melissa women can do anything.
[04:17] Her entrepreneur father becomes mayor wanting to do good things for their country city.
[04:50] Her parents partner well, managing to prioritize Melissa and her sister, and demonstrating the importance of workplace flexibility.
[07:15] As her mother exits Kronos, Melissa feels purposeful in her starting role as a fulfillment coordinator.
[08:55] Melissa’s mother put the human element first in building teams, embracing different points of view.
[09:35] After setting up the fulfillment center, Melissa’s time is freed up. Should she relax or solve new problems?!
[10:15] Melissa pitches a promotion to help out the stressed-out marketing managers—her boss says yes!
[12:05] Wanting to live and raise a family by the ocean, and tired of commuting, Melissa leaves Kronos and moves to the Cape.
[13:16] Melissa lands a lead marketing role at a local tech company which then rolls up into a billion-dollar global organization.
[13:55] Maintaining her boundaries, Melissa stays remote, managing her teams based everywhere.
[15:26] At times, Melissa commutes in part of the week when certain leaders didn’t share her mindset.
[16:56] The first, critical principal is to give people the benefit of the doubt that they will do the right thing.
[17:10] Put people in an environment where they can do their best work and respect their boundaries.
[17:51] Many leaders don’t trust people to do the right thing. How to identify the few employees who don’t?
[18:57] Every employee must understand their purpose, how it relates to the bigger picture, and have clear metrics and expectations.
[19:40] What people say and how they react if there isn’t a good fit.
[21:28] Melissa learned from her father that some choose to set their boundary at doing the minimum work.
[22:42] Melissa joins Iron Mountain for an integrated growth marketing role.
[23:25] Highly corporate centric when she joins, Iron Mountain decides to move and shrink their office space.
[24:39] Employees get two choices: all in-office with a dedicated desk or flexibility with a shared desk.
[26:30] Motivated by costs, Iron Mountrain creates great new space and supports others’ change to work flexibly.
[28:16] Engagement goes up, people are more productive opting for the environment they can work best in.
[29:41] Iron Mountain is set up for success with a strong culture, purpose, and good performance management principles and protocols.
[30:17] Not everyone is on board with the change—which is natural.
[31:19] Ask, not assume, if people can meet your needs.
[32:21] Impressions can be misleading. Set your boundary and have the tough conversation.
[34:36] Melissa's current company is paving the way for flexible work everywhere—internally and for customers.
[35:44] Leaders support flexible work, but are IT and security professionals set up to support them?
[35:15] In new work situations, what new risks are employees under that need to be addressed?
[37:56] Silos between security and IT are decreasing their effectiveness.
[40:32] Frontline managers need to buy in fully to the value of flexible working, not be ‘told’.
[42:09] Deploying flexible work principles: holding people accountable and respecting their independence.
[42:58] Every industry, company, and job is different, so flexibility differs.
[44:23] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Put people in an environment where they can do their best work being clear about purpose, roles, responsibilities, outcomes, and deliverables, and ensure there is alignment between IT and security teams so they can provide and support the right tools for flexible work. Then trust that employees will do the right thing.
RESOURCES
Melissa Puls on LinkedIn
Melissa on X
Ivanti’s website
Ivanti on X
Ivanti on Instagram
Ivanti’s 2024 Everywhere Work Report
QUOTES (edited)
“We understand flexibility is not only about what the company needs, but also what the individual needs.”
“It takes time and effort and energy and focus for an organization to bring along the right frontline managers so that they understand the purpose of what they're doing and making sure they deploy those principles of flexible work.”
“Hire the best people for the best job it really doesn't matter where they're located.”
“Most important is to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're going to do the right thing.”
“Every single person in your organization needs to understand what their purpose is and how it relates to the bigger picture, vision, and mission of the company and what they can do to contribute to that.”
“Only upside for the company financially—they were in a better spot, less space, more flexible. And the people that opted for that were in an environment where they felt that they could do great work.”
"The importance of having alignment between IT and security, where they have real insights into how the business is operating so they can provide the right tools and really maximize flexible work."
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Juliette Powell is Founder and Managing Partner of Kleiner Powell International, a consultancy working at the intersection of responsible technology and business. She is co-author of “The AI Dilemma: 7 Principles for Responsible Technology.” Juliette brings rich technology research and innovation experience to evaluate our evolving landscape as we anticipate AI integration. She explains her core concerns—what we need to pay attention and lean into. She discusses the importance of personal data ownership, creative friction, digital trust, and logic. Juliette explains how diverse contributions diminish divergent, asymmetric trajectories, so we all need to be actively involved.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:30] Monopoly is Juliette’s favorite game as a kid, showing how you can change your circumstances.
[02:50] Juliette studies finance and international business to understand global interconnectedness.
[03:15] At university, Juliette develops a TV career focusing on the business side of media.
[04:32] Interviewing Janet Jackson and Nelson Mandela reveals juxtaposed insecurity and confidence.
[07:30] Juliette’s first book results from her involvement with TED’s original founder producing the conference and meeting visionary thinkers.
[08:10] Transitioning from TV, Juliette explores technologies and the rise of social media.
[10:25] Citizen journalism and political messaging delivered using digital channels fascinates Juliette.
[12:10] Juliette tries to lead as her whole self, seeing people disconnecting their work/non-work lives.
[13:20] Where engineers can experience misalignment making decisions in their AI-related work.
[14:20] Juliette highlights those who live holistically as fully integrated people in her first book.
[15:00] Integrated work/life experienced early on meeting a couple working remotely in Thailand.
[16:50] Early career motivation to find work thinking about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
[18:58] How the internet extended possibilities beyond someone’s local geography.
[19:50] Ecosystem pressures raise mental health issues and people trying to survive not thrive.
[20:50] Navigating uncertainty—personally and professionally—requires having Plan A, B, C, and D.
[21:44] Juliette founded the Gathering to ensure diversity and avoid past mistakes in tech development.
[24:41] At TED, there is no separation between the expertise on stage and the audience.
[26:04] Turing AI and WeTheData.org focus on the personal data ecosystem, ownership, and ethical use.
[27:48] Research reveals four grand challenges include digital trust and digital infrastructure/access.
[29:30] An ‘eBay for data’ to aggregate and monetize personal data as Finns do.
[31:31] Research on Americans’ and Europeans’ different attitudes to their personal data.
[35:26] Most of Juliette’s NYU students are terrified of the potential impact of AI on their skills.
[36:25] Students’ potential questions ‘Will I have meaning? Can I contribute anything?’
[37:40] Juliette teaches students research methods to reduce fear and build confidence.
[41:30] The importance of creative friction to reconnect across seamless technology divides.
[42:45] Taking a moment to rise above the sand, things have changed a lot, probably within yourself.
[43:40] Diverse teams earn the most as they take the longest time to deliberate.
[44:45] With diverse debate, deliberating longer, with ongoing feedback, we can create better AI systems.
[45:53] Bias is part of human nature, so how we can reduce asymmetry of power?
[49:00] If we wake up to the power we have and give away, what we can do with that power.
[50:08] Juliette is excited to be alive right now when we are shaping the future such as digital infrastructure, digital literacy, and digital trust.
[50:40] Historically, curators of knowledge have been our sources of truth.
[53:05] We must be able to manage all this uncertainty on the individual level as a community.
[53:45] The Four Logics framework: government, corporate, engineering, and social justice logic.
[54:35] Increasing awareness of misalignment between employees’ morals and employer brands.
[55:47] Checking on personal values, culture, and vision that enable fulfillment.
[56:33] How reducing human biases with AI leads to other biases.
[57:27] Encourage employee experimentation with AI and launch internal challenges.
RESOURCES
Juliette Powell on LinkedIn
Juliette Powell’s website
Kliener Powell International’s website
The AI Dilemma: 7 Principles for Responsible Technology" co-authored by Juliette
Juliette’s first book. “33 Million People in the Room: How to Create, Influence, and Run a Successful Business with Social Networking”Juliette’s co-authored book “The AI Dilemma: 7 Principles for Responsible Technology.”
QUOTES (edited)
"I've always been of the perspective that I'm a whole person. There are many different parts to my whole person, but nonetheless, I try to think of myself holistically as I navigate the world."
"Creative friction can only come from deep diversity. The more diverse, the more they produce questions, the longer it takes to deliberate, but the better the outcomes."
"We need to take responsibility and intentionally co-create with AI to ensure diverse perspectives are debated, increasing initial friction to reduce asymmetries and improve capabilities and relevance."
"Digital trust is kind of key. If we want data, personal data, to work for everyone on the planet, and not just the usual suspects, we need to address digital trust and infrastructure."
"If you feel that your personal morals are being confronted by what you're being asked to do at work, now is the time to recognize that disalignment and seek a place where you can be fulfilled and work on meaningful things."
"I'm excited about shaping AI's future because we are the generations that get to shape it. The decisions we make now will determine where digital trust will be in the next hundred years."
“There is expertise in the everyday person. We don't necessarily reward financially or recognize that, but that tacit knowledge is invaluable.”
“If we take longer to deliberate around our AI systems in their specific use cases and context, bring in the various communities that will be affected before we start building them, and deploy them constantly incorporating that feedback, we'd have much better systems that would work for far more people.”
“If we all woke up a little bit more to the kind of power that we give away, then we could also realize the kind of power that we actually have if we decide to do something about it.”
“We have to be able to manage all this uncertainty on the individual level as a community.”
"If you feel that your personal morals are being confronted by what you're being asked to do at work, now is the time to recognize that disalignment and seek a place where you can be fulfilled and work on meaningful things."
"I'm excited about shaping AI's future because we are the generations that get to shape it. The decisions we make now will determine where digital trust will be in the next hundred years."
“There is expertise in the everyday person. We don't necessarily reward financially or recognize that, but that tacit knowledge is invaluable.”
- Se mer
