Episoder
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A conversation with Billy about leadership, reform and hope.
This episode marks the final conversation of Changing Conversations, a podcast that began in June 2020 during lockdown, born from a desire to create space for thoughtful dialogue in education.
In this closing conversation, Billy reflects on his journey from secondary headteacher through the pandemic to his current role as Head of Children and Young People at Scottish Action for Mental Health (SAMH).
We explore what heâs seeing nationally in relation to children and young peopleâs mental health, the realities behind the word âcrisis,â and what gives him hope. We talk about curriculum, reform, anxiety, belonging, neurodivergence, attendance, AI, teacher wellbeing â and the human threads that connect all of it.
Whatâs Next
While Changing Conversations comes to an end, the work continues. Over the coming months, Sarahâs podcast Space to Think will become Space to Think â Conversations in Education, bringing together reflective dialogue, research, lived experience and courageous thinking about education as it is lived, led and felt into one coherent space.
You can continue listening, reflecting and connecting there. You can also join Sarah on Substack, where she shares longer-form writing on leadership, learning and wellbeing (https://spacetothink.substack.com/).
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In this episode, Sarah chats with Maggie Farrar about presence in leadership. Maggie has worked in Education for many years as a teacher and as a leader, and found that her personal mindfulness practice was a cornerstone of her leadership practice. Having trained as a mindfulness practitioner, her work with leaders focuses on supporting others to cultivate mindfulness in life and work.
We explore how mindfulness practice and wellbeing, in general, have become more acceptable to talk about and how well they integrate into leadership practice and development. Maggie has a wonderful way of honouring the tradition in which her work sits and sharing it in a way that engages and supports busy, tired and often overwhelmed leaders.
In 2022, Maggie published her book Leading With Presence, Itâs An Inside Job. Her experience of leadership programmes was that they tended to focus on the outer world of leadership, leaving the inner world of leaders neglected and unexplored. She hopes that her book helps to re-dress the imbalance and supports leaders in cultivating awareness and practical ways of developing mindfulness and presence.
Find out more about Maggieâs work - https://www.empoweringleadership.co.uk/
Connect with Maggie on X - https://x.com/FarrarMaggie
Read Leading With Presence, Itâs An Inside Job
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In this episode of Changing Conversations, Sarah is joined by Katrina and Sean for a rich and reflective discussion inspired by their book Tackling Poverty and Disadvantage in Schools.
Drawing on their work within the Tees Valley Education Trust, Katrina and Sean explore what it means to take a genuinely place-based approach to school improvement, one that recognises the complexity of poverty, values lived experience and sees schools as part of a wider ecosystem rather than the sole solution.
Together we explore:
Their approach to being âfuriously curiousâ
Why education alone cannot address educational inequality
The importance of dignity, relational work and deep social listening
How co-production with children, families and communities reshapes practice
The difference between collaboration as a slogan and collaboration as design
How values, place and policy intersect
What brings hope
Katrina and Sean share concrete examples from their context, from co-produced community magazines and uniform access, to partnerships with funders, charities and local organisations, all illustrating how small, intentional design choices can reduce or remove barriers and build belonging.
Throughout the conversation, there is a clear invitation: not to replicate their work, but to reflect on your own context, values and assumptions and to ask what might be possible if we gang up on the problem rather than on one another.
This episode will resonate with school leaders, educators and system leaders who are grappling with complexity, seeking hope without false optimism, and looking for ways to lead with integrity in uncertain times.
Useful links:
Connect with Katrina and Sean on LinkedIn.
Book insights & discount code here.Read and download the PLACE: Our Journey So Far Impact report. Tees Valley Education Trust website (including the community magazine mentioned in the conversation).Child of the North: more information about their campaign work as a movement and resources/reports for colleagues to download.Substack: Seanâs personal Substack with obvious implicit and explicit links to the work of Tees Valley Education Trust and contained in the book. -
In this episode of Changing Conversations, Sarah is joined by Professor Haili Hughes - teacher, leader, writer and academic. This is a slower, more reflective conversation. Itâs the kind of conversation you fall into, where the threads of experience, identity, leadership and belonging weave together in ways you can only see with hindsight.
Together we explore:
Hailiâs unexpected journey from journalist to teacher, leader, academic and author and how values like truth and justice have always guided her choices.
The realities of returning to school leadership after several years in national and international roles.
The tension between alignment and agency in professional development, and how Haili is working to rebuild teacher autonomy through shared mental models and intentional space to think.
Living in liminal spaces and how that shapes the kinds of relationships Haili builds and the leaders she feels drawn to support.
Psychological safety, trust and radical candour as the foundations of belonging for staff, students and families.
Human-centred leadership, what it looks like in practice and why small acts of humanity matter.
Teacher identity and retention, including early insights from Haili and Sam Gibbsâ research into why teachers stay, not just why they leave.
Connect with Haili on LinkedIn or Substack
Books referenced:
Ready to Teach An Inspector Calls(with Miriam Hussein)
Coaching for Decision Making (with Sarah Cottingham & Adam Colbrook)
Clearing the Path for Leadership (with Michael Child)
English Teaching Hacks (with Stuart Pryke)
Mentoring In Schools - How To Become An Expert Colleague
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In this episode, Iâm joined by Anne-Marie Duguid, creator of Enabling Leaders and long-time collaborator in leadership development across the UK and internationally.
Across the conversation, Anne-Marie shares the story behind creating a new model of leadership learning, one that moves away from âdone toâ programmes and toward something deeper, more intentional and impactful. With honesty and clarity, she discusses why many leadership initiatives struggle to create lasting change and what it means to build something that leaders can use, own and grow.
We explore:
Why traditional leadership programmes often fall short and whatâs missing in the evidence of impact.
The jigsaw analogy - understanding the pieces, the conditions and why the final 10% matters.
The importance of language, culture and precision in developing strong leadership identities.
How the model works in practice, from strategic insight meetings to creation days, framework development and precise professional conversations.
Why 90-minute conversations about your own leadership can be unexpectedly transformative.
What it means to design an approach that is done with leaders, not done to them.
Stories of impact from schools and systems where the tool has taken on a life of its own.
The challenges that can âkick the jigsaw,â and how to build stickability.
The joy and necessity of talking about leadership with clarity, intention and depth.
You can find out more about Enabling Leaders through their website (https://enabling-leaders.com/) or connect with Anne-Marie on LinkedIn.
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In this book-filled episode, I sit down with Kathryn Morgann to explore three powerful reads that together form a kind of trilogy for purpose, restoration and reclamation:
Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman
Phosphorescence by Julia Baird
Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés
Through the lens of teaching, leadership and life, they weave a conversation about doing good work without losing yourself in the process â about rooting deeper, not just striving higher.
Books We Explore
Moral Ambition â what does it mean to be ambitious about doing good? How can educators reclaim a sense of moral purpose and agency in systems that often prioritise efficiency over empathy?
Phosphorescence â the healing power of nature, stillness and awe. Julia Bairdâs reminder that to sustain our light, we must protect it through quietness, kindness and connection.
Women Who Run with the Wolves â reconnecting with our wild, creative instinct as the source of vitality and joy. How can we honour that part of ourselves in work and life?
In this episode:
Ambition isnât the enemy of morality â itâs moralityâs missing energy.
The classroom is already moral work: shaping minds and hearts that might change the world.
Restoration isnât indulgence â itâs repair.
The strongest trees donât stand alone; their roots intertwine.
The most radical form of moral ambition for women today might be to rest, to be wild, to protect your own light.
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Tracey talks about some of the concepts in her recent book, Ferocious Warmth, and the philosophy of leadership with both the heart and the mind. High challenge and high support in a context of emotional intelligence and trust. Learn more https://www.traceyezard.com/
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In this episode, Iâm joined by Simon Breakspear to explore what it means to elevate the quality of professional conversations in schools. We discuss why simply spending more time together doesnât guarantee better collaboration and how schools can make the most of the time they already have.
Simon introduces the idea of weary talk, those moments when teams power down and connection fades and offers simple, sustainable ways to move from weary talk to conversations that energise and build culture.
In this episode:
Why every collaborative conversation either moves culture forward or stagnates it.
The signs and causes of âweary talkâ and how to notice when itâs creeping in.
The role of structure and facilitation in creating trust and shared ownership.
Seven practical tools to guide professional conversations from empathy mapping to stop/start/continue.
How new leaders can use these tools to build confidence and avoid over-preparing.
Why preparation isnât just about slides, itâs about preparing your state, presence and mindset.
The threads connecting Elevated Conversations, Teaching Sprints and The Pruning Principle.
Simonâs reflections on the creative process, self-doubt and finding the courage to share your work.
Resources:
Simonâs website
Elevated Conversations â book and free tools
Teaching Sprints
The Pruning Principle
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You can get 20% off Sarahâs book - Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom until 31 December 2025 using the code 25EFLY3 at https://www.routledge.com/
Teacher and author Sarah Lathan joins me to unpack what a trauma-informed classroom looks like in practice. Drawing on 15 years across additional needs and mainstream contexts, Sarah explains how understanding child development, the brain and the nervous system translates into day-to-day decisions about routines, responses and relationships.
We get into what âtrauma-informedâ actually means, we tackle common misconceptions (âisnât this just being soft?â) and make the case that staff wellbeing and school culture are the real enablers. From practical tools to system conditions, this episode is about moving beyond quick fixes and committing to the steady, relational work that supports all learners.
In this episode
Sarahâs journey through teaching to writing Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom
What âtrauma-informedâ really means
Why safety is both physical and emotional, often located in people, not just places
Holding boundaries without abandoning nurture; dispelling the âsoftnessâ myth
Practical tools
Pupil voice as genuine agency (not a tick-box) and simple ways to surface it
Primary vs secondary realities: time, relationships, developmental lens and phone policies
Culture and values: trust, communication, non-exclusion approaches, working with families
Staff wellbeing as a condition for relationship-led practice
Playing the long game: prevention, patience and accepting natural âdips in the graphâ
Referenced in this conversation
You can get 20% off Sarahâs book - Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom until 31 December 2025 using the code 25EFLY3 at https://www.routledge.com/
Nurture principles
The Resilience documentary
Pixarâs Inside Out (Joy, Sadness & Bing Bong clip for emotions coaching)
LEGO âBuild to Expressâ-style activities for pupil voice
Circles of Control / Circles of Influence frameworksDarren McGarveyâs reflections on sharing lived experience -
In this episode of Changing Conversations, I am joined by Kathleen Johnston - Education Manager, doctoral student and former Quality Improvement Manager for the Northern Alliance. Together, we explore what it really means to collaborate in education and what gets in the way.
From the promise and challenges of the Regional Improvement Collaboratives to the tension between policy intention and system reality, this is a conversation that opens up the complexity of working together in meaningful ways. Kathleen reflects on what sheâs learned from both practice and research and how schools, leaders and systems can better create the conditions for collaborative improvement.
In this episode:
The evolution and aims of the RICs in Scotland
What meaningful collaboration looks and feels like
The structures and relational dynamics that enable or inhibit it
The role of research and reflection in understanding what works
Why time, trust, and process matter
Leading with bravery and clarity in busy, demanding systems
What we can all learn by âunravelling collaborationâ in our own contexts
Referenced in this conversation:
Viviane Robinson â theories of action and engaged vs bypass models. Listen to an earlier conversation with Viviane here.
Jenny Donohoo â collective efficacy. Jenny also joined us for a conversation on this topic back in September 2020.
Prof. Amy Edmondson â psychological safety. You might enjoy Sarahâs conversation with Amy in this episode of Space to Think. Simon Breakspear â pruning and doing less, better. Simon explains the pruning principle here. -
What happens when you bring AI into the conversation without rushing to a quick fix? Zahra and Rick from Winning Scotland are holding space for local authorities, researchers and educators to explore the possibilities and the nuance of AI in Education. This isnât about chasing the latest tool, itâs about understanding the best conditions for change.
What began with curiosity has grown into a two-phase initiative: first, understanding the sectorâs readiness and the conditions for success; then, potentially exploring how AI tools might be used in practice.
They share the thinking behind their phased approach, the partnerships theyâve built, the surprising feedback from both education and tech sectors, and why theyâre staying agnostic about outcomes. Along the way, they explore the tensions between urgency and caution, and the importance of keeping teachers, pupils, and relationships at the heart of any technological change.
In this episode:
How an initial spark led to a national, collaborative exploration of AI in education
Why âis AI ready for Scottish education?â might be the more important question
The risks of skipping straight to products
What theyâve learned from speaking to local authorities, unions and tech leaders
Designing a process that hears all voices
The role of values in guiding decisions through uncertainty
Referenced in this conversation:
Winning Scotlandâs work on Growth Mindset and Planet Youth
Khan Academy
Educate Ventures
The Dots
Scottish AI Alliance
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In this episode, Sarah is joined by three insightful guests: Shirley Clarke, Angela Evans, and Kate Moss, co-authors of Understanding and Reducing Anxiety in the Primary Classroom. Together, they explore the essential link between well-being and learning, drawing from their collective expertise in formative assessment, school-wide compassion, and child and adolescent psychotherapy.
Our conversation dives into the inspiration behind their book, the lessons they've learned from collaborating, and practical strategies for creating compassionate, supportive school environments that truly foster learning and growth. Shirley and Angela also share some reflections from their professional learning programme designed to bring these practices to life in classrooms.
Understanding and Reducing Anxiety in the Primary Classroom is available now.
To connect with Shirley, Angela, or Kate, visit their websites:
Shirley Clarke - https://www.shirleyclarke-education.org/ Angela Evans - https://angelaevans.org/ Kate Moss - https://www.kmeducation.co.uk/ -
Dr Naomi Fisher is an independent clinical psychologist, author and trainer. She specialises in trauma, autism and alternative approaches to education and works with children, adolescents and adults. Find out more at Naomi's website.
In this episode we focus in particular on the mental health of young people and what Naomi has been observing in her work in this area. We discuss the education system and the role it can play in nurturing and supporting learning and wellbeing, but also the harm that some approaches and practices cause to too many young people and the need for change.
Get involved in the conversation by sharing reflections with us on social media or podcast platforms.
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A brief scheduling update from us!
Sarah has launched a new podcast, Space to Think, which you will find on your preferred podcast platform. We'd love for you to check it out, subscribe, like or follow. You can subscribe on Substack meaning you'll never miss an episode!
We still enjoy our Changing Conversations and plan to record and share an episode each month. A big thank-you for continuing to tune in, your comments and appreciation really do mean a lot.
Billy hopes to share more brilliant conversations so keep your eyes and ears peeled...
We will be back next month with another Changing Conversation.
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In this episode, Sarah chats with Dr Andrea Stringer about her recently published thesis on coaching early career teachers. Andrea explored the environment for and implementation of coaching for early career teachers. While her focus has been early career teachers there are helpful reflections for all settings and stages. You can access Andrea's thesis here. https://unsworks.unsw.edu.au/entities/publication/d1f89dbc-e598-48c7-b078-b6aabac93548A shorter article is also available. https://blog.aare.edu.au/new-teachers-and-their-leaders-what-they-need-to-thrive/
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A month on from the live Word Education Summit event I had the opportunity to reflect on how it went with co-founder Anne-Marie. If you're wondering where and how to work your way through the epic resources that is WES, this is a must-listen.
Anne-Marie shares her highlights, some top tips for where to start as well as the 12 key thoughts that emerged for her:
AI is here but it canât do everything (yet) Fulfilled and flourishing leaders Being intentional Culture still matters Belonging The sweet spot Take down the tick box Learning still needs to go deeper New language or old? Voices matter The importance of wisdom Hope -
Marie-Claire co-authored Imperfect Leadership In Action with Steve Munby (episode 67) and is the Deputy Chief Executive Officer of the Waterton Academy Trust in West Yorkshire. In this epsiode we explore her relationship with imperfect leadership, what it means to have a healthy ego, nuance, values and even shape-shifting.
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In this episode, we reconnect with James Nottingham from Challenge Learning. James has recently published his 12th book, Teach Brilliantly we consider what's changed over the years and why this book and why now. We dig into the topic of engagement, what it means and what it looks like - how do we know learning is happening?
Find out more about Teach Brilliantly here.
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The final episode of our World Education Summit mini-series, in which we've been highlighting some of this year's brilliant speakers. This week we revisit our conversation with Jim Knight on instructional coaching. The World Education Summit is 18-21 March 2024 - find out more at â â worldedsummit.comâ â .
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As part of our World Education Summit mini-series, we're highlighting some of this year's brilliant speakers. This week we revisit our conversation with Peter Dewitt on de-implemntation.The World Education Summit is 18-21 March 2024 - find out more at â â worldedsummit.comâ â .
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