Episodes
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Our guest Dr Gemma Pearson has so much to say that we decided to offer her episode in two versions - this one is the condensed version, in which Gemma discusses the highlights of her journey in equine behavioural medicine.
In her current roles, Gemma combines her time between research and outreach as Director of Equine Behaviour at The Horse Trust and running a referral clinic for clinical equine behaviour cases where she is based at the University of Edinburgh.
After working in ambulatory practice Gemma undertook a rotating residency programme in the equine hospital alongside an MScR investigating horse veterinarian interactions.
Subsequently she completed her CCAB (certified clinical animal behaviourist) exam and her PhD thesis ‘Stress in equids undergoing veterinary care and the development of interventions that positively influence the horses’ experience’. As well as continuing with her own research she supervises several students at PhD, MSc and undergraduate level. Subsequently she has been recognised as the first species specific RCVS specialist in Veterinary Behavioural Medicine (Equine).
Gemma is frequently invited to lecture internationally, as a recognised expert in this field and an excellent communicator. One of the most successful projects was filming a series of short YouTube videos with the British Equine Veterinary Association aiming to reduce injury rates when dealing with difficult horses under the ‘Don’t break your vet’ campaign.
In her spare time she has competed up to advanced level endurance on a homebred horse as well as enjoying competing in affiliated dressage and eventing. Currently she is retraining a Thoroughbred recently retired from racing.
Gemma's research output is available at this link:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gemma-Pearson-2/research
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Our guest Dr Gemma Pearson has so much to say that we decided to offer her episode in two versions - this one is the extended version, in which Gemma discusses with us her journey to equine behavioural medicine and her current roles, combining her time between research and outreach as Director of Equine Behaviour at The Horse Trust and running a referral clinic for clinical equine behaviour cases where she is based at the University of Edinburgh.
After working in ambulatory practice Gemma undertook a rotating residency programme in the equine hospital alongside an MScR investigating horse veterinarian interactions.
Subsequently she completed her CCAB (certified clinical animal behaviourist) exam and her PhD thesis ‘Stress in equids undergoing veterinary care and the development of interventions that positively influence the horses’ experience’. As well as continuing with her own research she supervises several students at PhD, MSc and undergraduate level. Subsequently she has been recognised as the first species specific RCVS specialist in Veterinary Behavioural Medicine (Equine).
Gemma is frequently invited to lecture internationally, as a recognised expert in this field and an excellent communicator. One of the most successful projects was filming a series of short YouTube videos with the British Equine Veterinary Association aiming to reduce injury rates when dealing with difficult horses under the ‘Don’t break your vet’ campaign.
In her spare time she has competed up to advanced level endurance on a homebred horse as well as enjoying competing in affiliated dressage and eventing. Currently she is retraining a Thoroughbred recently retired from racing.
Gemma's research output is available at this link:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gemma-Pearson-2/research
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Missing episodes?
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This week, Karen and Meta discuss two recent events, and what they found interesting and potentially helpful in building a better future for equestrian sport.
We discuss World Horse Welfare's recent virtual conference titled:
"Accountability for welfare in equestrianism: Looking beyond the obvious"
https://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/accountability-for-welfare-in-equestrianism-looking-beyond-the-obvious
And also the latest offering from the Teagasc series, Let's Talk Equine, featuring our own Meta Osborne.
https://www.teagasc.ie/rural-economy/rural-development/equine/lets-talk-equine-webinar-series/
We hope you enjoy this bonus, and as always, reach out and share your thoughts and opinions and ideas for the future.
Our email is: [email protected]
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Will you be our next Changing Rein guest star?
Read on to learn how!
This week we are replaying an episode that many of our listeners ranked as their favourite - our chat with the endangered species specialist - Dr Jake Veasey.
We are replaying part 2 of our chat where he talks about using his approach to understanding animal welfare to design habitat for tigers that is enriching and helps them thrive, even while living in captivity.
The Changing Rein Challenge is back!!!
So what's the challenge?
Jake's ideas really inspired us, and we hope you were inspired too. We are asking you to listen to Jake's episode, and see if it inspires you to think of some change we could implement to make our horse's lives better. Or maybe you already do something clever that you can share with us. The goal is to share ideas around so we can make life better for our horses and better for us too.
Please take up the challenge - we really can't wait to hear from you - and send us an audio clip so we can play your idea on an episode of Changing Rein.
To record your clip, go to our Changing Rein Facebook page and send us an audio message.
We hope you enjoy re-listening to the incredible Jake Veasey as much as we did, and we can't wait to hear your tips about how you make life better for your horse.
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Gabriel Lencioni is a young, equine vet with an interest in horse welfare and behaviour.
Recently qualified, Gabriel is already embarking on research that just might change the way we think about horse welfare in equestrian sport - he is creating an AI model to assess horse welfare during competition.
Not your regular AI tech-bro, Gabriel shares with us his journey into animal behavior and welfare, and why he is determined to leverage the latest technology to improve the lives of horses, vets and owners.
As our first guest from South America, we also explore cultural perspectives on animal welfare, and as always, we talk about how optimistic we are the future of horse sports.
Reading and Resources
Find all of Gabriel's research here
The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness (2012)
An integrative and functional framework for the study of animal emotion and mood (Mendl et al, 2010)
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Rachel is both a racing 'insider' and an academic - she has worked in horse racing for over 20 years and she obtained her PhD from the University of Bristol in 2023 for her work developing a racehorse welfare assessment protocol.
This welfare assessment has been trialled by industry assessors to gather population level racehorse welfare data. The welfare assessment has also been used to monitor the welfare of Military Working horses from the Household Cavalry and racehorses in Hong Kong.
In this episode we talk about the practicalities of racehorse welfare assessment, the small changes that can result in big improvements, and the importance how young Thoroughbreds are managemed on stud farms to set them up for a good life in racing.
Rachel is currently an Equine Technologist at CAFRE (College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs) in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland and is a post-doctoral researcher at University College Dublin (UCD).
Rachel's research output is available on ResearchGate
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In this episode, Master Farrier Andrew Bowe discusses his journey from traditional farriery to a focus on barefoot hoof care.
He shares insights on treating chronic conditions like laminitis and navicular disease, the ethical considerations of hoof care, and the importance of educating horse owners.
The conversation also covers performance solutions for horses, the significance of farrier care, and the future of hoof care regulation. Andrew emphasizes the need for a mixed approach to hoof care, combining traditional and modern methods for optimal horse health.
At their farm, Mayfield, Andrew and wife Nicky host the Australian College of Equine Podiotherapy where they train the next generation of equine hoof care practitioners, plus they also offer a lameness rehab and retirement agistment facility. In addition, at Mayfield and at locations around Australia they offer maintenance hoof care workshops so owners can learn how to safely care for their horse's feet in between farrier visits.
Visit Andrew's website here: https://barehoofcare.com/
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For our extendedbumper Christmas edition we have a very special guest, Dr Mette Uldahl.
Mette is a Danish veterinarian who until earlier this year was veterinary advisor to the Danish Equestrian Federation. She resigned from that role in September 2024 and is now chief consultant to Dyrenes Beskyttelse (Animal Protection Denmark). Mette has devoted her career to being a voice for animals. As well as her work with DEF, Mette isa Past President of the Federation of European Equine Veterinary Associations and is currently 1st Vice President of the European Veterinary Association.
Mette also regularly take part in research projects and publications of peer-reviewed papers, many of which she discusses in this episode.
This episode is particularly fitting as we wind down to theholiday season because Mette touches on so many of the topics that have been raised by the guests on Changing Rein over the past six months. What is more Mette brings her own unique perspective, whether it is thinking about horse behaviourthrough understanding neurodiversity, or the language we use about and around horses and its impact on welfare. How should vets balance their roles as advocates for horses while also having to satisfy client demands and expectations? What is the intrinsic value of horses? And if we are to use horses in sport, how much compromise is acceptable? And we touch on the mind games we play in our interactions with horses, we talk about blue tongues and oral lesions and knee rolls, we discuss the role of governing bodies, and Mette shares her profound wish for horse sport into the future.
We hope that wherever you are that you enjoy this extendededition of Changing Rein and we look forward to continuing our journey with the podcast and our listeners in 2025.
You can find Mette’s research output at https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mette-Uldahl
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Life with horses is complicated, because we take on responsibility for another sentient being- and if we humans want to improve horse welfare, we need to find common ground with one another.
Tamzin Furtado BA(Hons), AdvDip, PhD is a social scientist with a background in global health, and a specific interest in the interconnections between human and animal health, and well-being.
She completed a PhD at the University of Liverpool studying human behaviour change in relation to obesity in horses, particularly focusing on horse-human relationships. Tamzin works on projects across the equine welfare spectrum, including: studying people’s perceptions of sport horse wellbeing, livery yard management, and anthelmintic resistance.
In this episode we talk about barriers and enablers of change, at both individual level and organisational leve. We also hear about Tamzin's novel work on the tricky topic of equine obesity. We discuss the welfare of livery yard owners and managers, and we chat about uncertainty.
Tamzin’s publications can be found at this link
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tamzin-Furtado
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Should riding bit-free be an option for all equestrian sports?
Should racing include whipping horses to make them run?
What is the most important project in the realm of sport horse welfare right now?
Listen to this episode of Changing Rein and find out from arguably the world's most influential person in horse sport welfare, Roly Owers, CEO of World Horse Welfare (WHW).
Roly Owers has huge influence in sport horse welfare because alongside his World Horse Welfare CEO role, he is a director of British Equestrian the peak body for equestrian sport in Britain, and affiliated with the FEI. Plus he is an advisor to other national and international organisations including the British Horseracing Authority and the International Horse Sports Confederation
What he says matters!
Think all the fuss about horse welfare is overblown?
Or maybe you think the opposite, that not enough is being done...either way you want to know what Roly Owers thinks.
Our conversation covers not only the important changes we have seen in sport horse welfare but what is needed in the future. There are some predictable bits and some surprises...but don't take our word for it...jump in and have a listen!
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Summary
In this episode, Bronwen Williams discusses the principles of Motivational Interviewing, emphasizing the importance of respectful conversations and understanding the fixing reflex. The conversation explores the stages of change, the role of self-efficacy, and how to navigate identity shifts during change. The hosts and Bronwen also discuss strategies for supporting individuals in making changes, particularly in the context of animal welfare, and the significance of observational learning in inspiring change.
Takeaways
Motivational Interviewing fosters respectful conversations.
The fixing reflex can hinder change efforts.
Ambivalence is a common experience when considering change.
Support and accountability are key in the change process.
Understanding identity is crucial when navigating change.
Scenario planning can help visualize potential outcomes.
Self-efficacy influences the ability to make lasting changes.
Pre-contemplation requires a gentle approach to conversation.
Observational learning can inspire change in others.
Change is a journey that requires patience and understanding.
Buy Bronwen's book
Practical Human Behaviour Change for Animal Health and Welfare
Listen to Meta's Tedx Talk
Saving Our World with One Welfare Education
Watch Karen's webinar for Equitopia
The benefits of tracking and monitoring horse welfare
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Motivational Interviewing
07:48 The Origins and Principles of Motivational Interviewing
10:57 The Role of the Fixing Reflex in Conversations
13:33 Understanding Ambivalence in Change
16:31 Navigating Identity and Change
19:28 Scenario Planning and Change Management
22:14 Stages of Change Model Explained
25:31 Recognizing Slips and Maintaining Change
28:23 Supporting Change in Group Settings
31:12 The Importance of Self-Efficacy in Change
34:06 Modeling Behavior and Influencing Change
36:56 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
41:29 Building Self-Efficacy for Change
42:28 Supporting Others in Making Changes
45:27 The Role of Information in Change
49:23 Navigating Pre-Contemplation Stages
53:24 Conversations About Change
55:10 The Journey of Writing a Book
01:00:17 Who Can Benefit from Motivational Interviewing?
01:04:09 The Importance of Connection and Kindness
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We're taking a few weeks break, and we'll be back before you know it with some great guests and great new content. Before that we thought we'd share with you some of the highlights of Season 2 - now is your opportunity to catch up on listening to some really interesting guests discussing all things horse sport and equine welfare. Thanks for sharing our journey - and be sure to share with your friends how much you are enjoying Changing Rein!
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Dr Jo Hockenhull is Head of Research at The DonkeySanctuary. Jo has had a wide-ranging and varied career in animal welfare science – her particular interests include horse behaviour and welfare, human-animal interactions and the possibilities inherent in the science of Human Behaviour Change to improve the welfare of animals.
Jo’s research output can be found at this link:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo-Hockenhull/research
Dr Jo Hockenhull is Head of Research at The DonkeySanctuary.
Jo has had a wide-ranging and varied career in animal welfare science – her particular interests include horse behaviour and welfare, human-animal interactions and the possibilities inherent in the science of Human Behaviour Change to improve the welfare of animals.
Jo’s research output can be found at this link:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo-Hockenhull/research
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Background - about Meredith
Meredith Chapman was appointed as Equestrian Australia's (EA) first National Health and Safety Manager. This role was actioned following the tragic deaths of two young eventing horse riders in 2016. Meredith’s primary role was to lead the implementation of all 31 coronial recommendations following a coronial inquest. Meredith worked extensively with all Australian State, Territory, and disciplines specific committee representatives, including the Olympic High-Performance executive team reviewing, developing, and implementing improved Health, Safety, and Welfare (HSW) management systems, whilst maintaining sport operations. Her role required extensive consultation, evidence-based research for best-practice standards, cultural and industry change management, widespread member and stakeholder engagement and training.
Meredith developed EAs first National HSW policies, a Minimal Medical Response Framework, post incident response and crisis management plans, concussion in sport protocols and she navigated EA through the COVID pandemic. Meredith represented EA at 3 annual international FEI conferences,l and various stakeholder meetings. Meredith also developed and hosted EA first on-line National HSW conferences (2021 & 2023).
Meredith’s business management experience and academic achievements have enabled her to maintain regulatory (Australian Sports Commission), EA Board and HSW committee communications on all matters pertaining to equestrianism HSW as required. Following Voluntary Administration, she was influential in re-establishing EAs stakeholder funding and resuming sport operations. Meredith participated EA recruitment, management and training of new team members, was accountable for HSW reports, budgets, identification of training needs, insurance and legal liaison, the development and delivery of safety compliance management processes and more. Meredith has provided expert HSW leadership to assist EA in achieving a nationally aligned strategy during structural reform.
You'll find Meredith's academic publications on Researchgate
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Upskilling instead of conditioning - coaching expert Marianne Davies shares her dynamic approach to coaching and training that has coaches, riders AND horses wanting more
Marianne Davies is an expert in coaching riders and developing equestrian coaches. She is a senior coaching developer for UK Coaching and runs her own coaching business, Dynamics Coaching and in her spare time she is completing a PhD and leading ground breaking research in coaching science.
This week she shares her dynamic approach to coaching that sees both the horse and rider as active participants in the learning process, which is quite different from behaviourist approaches, such as those used in equitation science.
Marianne explains the science behind her approach, and in the second half of the episode she gives some really practical advice for riders and explains how to set up training situations to help your horse learn.
It’s a great conversation, we hope you enjoy it!
Terminology
Affordance - opportunity to do something that a horse or person perceives - when coaching and training our horses, we can change the environment to make it easier for the horse (or the rider) to recognise an opportunity so they can attempt a desirable movement or posture.
Constraints-led approach to learning - introductory article
https://adaptivemovement.net/blog/brief-introduction-to-the-constraints-led-approach/
Blog posts by Marianne
Behaviourism and Ecological Psychology Do humans and animals need different theories of learning?Recommended reading
de Waal (2016) Are we smart enough to know how smart animals are?
Papers mentioned in the podcast
Wulf & Lethwaite (2016) Optimizing performance through intrinsic motivation and attention for learning: The OPTIMAL theory of motor learning https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26833314/
Scott Kelso (1995) Dynamical system theory and human movement and learning.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=-VlkX4YAAAAJ
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To say Vicky Leonard is brave is probably an understatement. Back in 2017 she published a series of blogs where she outlined the threat poor horse welfare poses to the racing industry. It caused quite a stir.
Since then she has been advocating for change in the industry because as she sees it, horse welfare is the one issue that could bring racing down.
In the seven years since that post, she has led hard conversations all over the world to help the industry grasp the risk to their reputation, their bottom line...their future.
Like most horse people, Vicky is an optimist and a doer. She not only sees the dangers, but also the opportunities to make things better, and the many positive changes that are already happening.
Vicky gives us a glimpse into the world of racing and her insights are valuable for everyone interested in the future of horses in sport.
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While Prof Madeleine Campbell was in our virtual studio we took the opportunity to record a second episode with her - this one is about the ethical aspects of horse breeding (her previous episode, Ethical Equestrianism, is definitely worth a listen).
Without breeding, horse sport would not exist, but ethical consideration has been lacking. Are we breeding the right horses, at the right time, in the right way?
Prof Campbell is a registered specialist in equine reproduction, a horse breeder and also a veterinary ethicist (she is Professor of Veterinary Ethics at the University of Nottingham) so she is uniquely qualified to discuss this sometimes controversial topic. We discuss natural cover, whether applying a limit to the number of mares bred to a stallion should be considered, and potential ethical and welfare issues involved in Assisted Reproductive Technologies (ARTs) in horses.
Some of Maddy's publications in this area include:
Campbell M. (2014) Does the current regulation of assistedreproductive techniques in the UK safeguard animal welfare? Animal Welfare. 23(1):109-118. doi:10.7120/09627286.23.1.109
Campbell, M. L. H., & Sandøe, P. (2015). Welfare inhorse breeding. Veterinary Record, 176(17), 436-440.
Campbell, M. L. (2021). Ethics: use and misuse of assistedreproductive techniques across species. Reproduction and Fertility, 2(3),C23-C28.
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Control or communication?
It's an interesting question and how we answer it tells us a lot about how we see the world and our relationship with our horse.
This week we talk to Hungarian dressage rider Krisztina Szucs, founder of My Way to Dressage.
Krisztina started her dressage career as many people do, as a junior, and achieved gold medal success at the national level as a young rider. After a break from horses and riding she found she still wanted to compete, but something had changed. She found herself concerned about some of the common dressage practices and their effect on horse welfare.
This concern inspired Krisztina to investigate bit free riding. She is now an ambassador for World Bitless Association, and a campaigner for rule changes to allow bit free riding in dressage competition at all levels.
We hope you, like us, find Krisztina's gentle but determined approach to promoting positive change inspiring.
“Alone, we can do so little; together, we can do so much” (H.Keller)
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Dr Camie Heleski has worked in horse management and welfare research for over 25 years. She recently served on the FEI Ethics & Wellbeing Commission and she is an Honorary Fellow of the International Society for Equitation Science.
Additional information
D. Wayne Lucas - famous US racehorse trainer inducted into both Racing and QH Hall of Fame - Camie mentions him in her journey.
Heleski, C. (2023) Social License to Operate–Why Public Perception Matters for Horse Sport–Some Personal Reflections, Journal of Equine Veterinary Science, 124, May 2023, 104266, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0737080623000576
Heleski, C. & Anthony, R. (2012) Science alone is not always enough: The importance of ethical assessment for a more comprehensive view of equine welfare, Journal of Veterinary Behavior, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jveb.2011.08.003
Luke et al (2022) New insights into ridden horse behaviour, horse welfare and horse-related safety. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 105539, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2021.105539
Mellor et al (2020) Five Domains Model of Animal Welfare, Animals, https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/10/1870
A peek into the animal welfare competition developed by Camie Heleski
https://www.avma.org/events/animal-welfare-assessment-contest
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This week on Changing Rein Karen and Meta talk to Fran Berry, a premier jockey from Ireland who rode more than 1300 winners across a career spanning 23 years.
Fran was born into a racing family and has ridden horses all over the globe, making him the perfect person to help us learn about the world of racing and explore opportunities for creating a more sustainable horse industry built on horse welfare.
As with all of our guests, you may find yourself agreeing or disagreeing with some of the ideas we discuss, so this week we have introduced the Changing Rein Challenge. Listen to learn about the challenge, and as always, we are keen to hear what you think. - Show more
