Episodes
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When President Trump took to Truth Social earlier this year and attacked Pope Leo for being “WEAK on Crime, and terrible for Foreign Policy,” most Catholics were understandably shocked. But a clash between a secular leader and the bishop of Rome is hardly without precedent. This week on “Jesuitical,” hosts Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless talk with Miles Pattendens, an expert on popes and papal conclaves, about the long and quirky history of feuds between popes and politicians.
In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss the Vatican rejection of a request from the German bishops to allow lay people to preach the homily at Mass. Plus, a look ahead at Pope Leo’s summer plans.
And in As One Friends Speak to Another, America Media’s O’Hare fellows—Brigid McCabe, Ed Desciak and Will Gualitiere—share some spiritual insights from a year working at the intersection of the church and the world.
Jesuitical listener survey
00:00 Context
2:47 Vatican says "no" to women preaching
12:07 Pope Leo's summer schedule
16:05 History of Catholic authority
19:46 The investiture controversy
26:03 Pastoral concern or power grabs?
34:27 Henry VIII vs. Popes
39:20 How the church lost power
43:10 Moral authority on the global stage
52:00 Donald Trump's attacks on Pope Leo
1:00:10 Fill out our listener survey! https://forms.gle/yggZcBKeXYKbWYpM7
1:01:12 Faith sharing with our Fellows!
Learn about America Magazine's Joseph A. O’Hare, S.J., Postgraduate Media Fellowship: https://www.americamagazine.org/ohare-fellows
Jesuitical listener survey: https://forms.gle/yggZcBKeXYKbWYpM7
Links:
Vatican to German bishops: No lay people preaching homilies at Mass
Extraordinary consistory signals Pope Leo’s push to work with cardinals on global challenges
Pope Leo speaks out on SSPX ordinations and U.S.-Iran deal
Pope Leo to accept Liberty Medal and address Americans on July 3
Electing the Pope in Early Modern Italy, 1450-1700
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Zac and Ashley sit down with Luke Burgis, the director of the Cluny Institute at The Catholic University of America and the author of The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion. They discuss why we join and leave tribes, how to form a “solid” self and what healthy group identity looks like.
In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss Vice President JD Vance’s new memoir on converting to Catholicism, the consecration of the United States to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and new statutes for the Vatican’s commission for the protection of minors. Plus, Pope Leo wraps up his successful trip to Spain on the Canary Islands—but has some trouble getting off them.
And in As One Friend Speaks to Another, Zac shares what he’s thinking about going into his very first Father’s Day.
0:00 Intro
3:30 J.D. Vance’s new book “Communion”
9:36 U.S. bishops meet for annual meeting in Orlando
19:44 Pope Leo finishes Spain trip
21:39 Papal plane trouble
24:25 Interview with Luke Burgis
25:52 The parable of the lost sheep
31:16 The age of social contagion
33:56 What Luke learned in seminary
38:05 Is your community good for you?
42:27 People respond to aesthetics
46:30 The importance of distance
48:46 The Catholic Church is unique as a community
57:20 What is the Cluny Institute?
1:02:25 What about AI?
1:05:24 Canonization
1:08:07 As One Friend Speaks to Another
Links:
The One and the Ninety-Nine: Forging Identity in the Age of Social Contagion
Learn more about the Cluny Institute
JD Vance writes about his journey to Catholicism in his new book, ‘Communion’
Consecration 101: What the bishops’ upcoming consecration of the US to the Sacred Heart means
Pope Leo XIV approves new statutes for child protection commission
Pope Leo ends visit to Spain with a call to repent
What’s on tap?
Sancerre
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Missing episodes?
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This week on “Jesuitical”, Ashley McKinless and Zac Davis talk to Dianne Bergant, C.S.A., who taught Scripture at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago for 44 years. She also served as America’s Word columnist from 2002 to 2005. During her time at CTU, Sr. Dianne had one very famous student, Robert Prevost—the future Pope Leo XIV. With Sr. Dianne, Zac and Ashley discuss what it’s like to be the teacher of a future pope and how approaches to teaching Scripture have evolved over time.
During Signs of the Times, Ashley and Zac unpack Pope Leo’s trip to Spain and a new Sagrada Familia Lego Set, and they talk sports with Catholic perspectives on the World Cup and NBA Finals—featuring some words from O’Hare Fellow Ed Desciak.
In “As One Friend Speaks to Another,” Ashley shares an exciting announcement.
Links from the show:
Pope Leo defends the unborn and migrants in historic speech to Spanish parliament
More than one million attend Pope Leo’s Mass and procession in the heart of Madrid
Pope Leo meets Bad Bunny in Madrid
In Spain, Pope Leo denounces polarization and hails commitment to multilateralism
Lego announces new set designed after Spain’s Sagrada Família basilica
Oligarchs can’t ruin the World Cup
Celebrating faith and FIFA: Italian-American community welcomes soccer legends
Your Catholic Guide to the 2026 N.B.A. Finals: Spurs Sisters vs. Villanova Knicks
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Zac and Ashley speak with Mary Kate Polanin, the executive editor of The Good Newsroom, the digital news outlet of the Archdiocese of New York. They discuss the important and changing role of diocesan communications, Catholics in the digital space and New York’s new archbishop.
In Signs of the Times, Zac and Ashley discuss Pope Leo’s surprising and historic choice to lead the Vatican’s Dicastery for Communication and dig into the advice “Magnifica Humanitas” offers to each of us when it comes to navigating our relationship with A.I. Plus: Pope Leo heads to Spain on Saturday—and Bad Bunny is hoping they cross paths.
Links from the show:
Pope Leo appoints president of EWTN News as head of Vatican communications
America’s coverage of “Magnifica Humanitas”
Bad Bunny wants to meet Pope Leo XIV. In Madrid, a crossover event is in the works.
The Good Newsroom
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On this bonus episode of “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with two digital evangelization experts who helped create the Vatican’s study group report on the digital environment as part of the Synod on Synodality. Kim Daniels directs the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life at Georgetown University, and José Manuel de Urquidi runs the Evangelization Lab. Both were synod delegates, along with then-Cardinal Robert Prevost (the future Pope Leo XIV), at the global sessions of the synod in Rome in 2023 and 2024.
They discuss:
00:00 What are the Synod Study Groups?
7:10 How Pope Leo has shaped synodality
15:16 How influencers challenge church jurisdiction
28:30 Accompanying digital evangelizers
33:40 Converting to real communities
Links:
Study Group 3’s final report on the Digital Environment
The Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life
Evangelization Lab
Coverage of Pope Leo’s encyclical “Magnifica Humanitas”
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This week on Jesuitical: A feed drop of this week's special “Inside the Vatican” roundtable, a discussion of “Magnifica Humanitas,” Pope Leo’s groundbreaking first encyclical on protecting the human person in the age of artificial intelligence. Host Colleen Dulle sits down with her co-host and senior Vatican correspondent, Gerard O’Connell, as well as America’s president and editor in chief, Sam Sawyer, S.J.
They discuss the document’s key takeaways, how it is being received in Silicon Valley, Pope Leo’s challenge for every Catholic in the A.I. age and much more.
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:11 Pope Leo present for the launch of his own encyclical
4:21 How the encyclical is being received by the tech community
8:43 Magnifica Humanitas on the growth of Catholic social teaching
13:16 Acknowledging the Church’s role in slavery
15:53 Exploring Pope Leo’s ecclesiology
22:30 Leo’s concrete recommendations for A.I.
32:30 How lay people can deal with A.I.
37:40 Outro
Links:
Read “Magnifica Humanitas”
Pope Leo’s first encyclical tackles A.I., power and human dignity
Pope Leo XIV makes historic apology for the Catholic Church’s role in legitimizing slavery
Why Pope Leo’s new encyclical quotes Gandalf: Literary images of hope and faith in ‘Magnifica Humanitas’
A capitalist (priest) reads ‘Magnifica Humanitas’
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This week on the “Jesuitical” podcast, Ashley McKinless and Zac Davis speak to theologian and legal scholar Cathleen Kaveny about why Catholics seem obsessed with questions of sexual morality. They were prompted to dig into the historical development of Catholic sexual ethics after Pope Leo said in a press conference, “We tend to think that when the church is talking about morality, that the only issue of morality is sexual. And in reality, I believe there are much greater, more important issues…”
00:00 Leo's comments on sexual morality
4:08 What Scripture says
6:05 How Catholic teaching developed
9:30 What is "natural law"?
16:37 How Catholics became obsessed with sex
20:26 JPII's "theology of the body"
24:41 Sex and justice
28:50 Sex, confession and salvation
36:35 A healthy approach to sex
Links:
Pope Leo speaks on same-sex blessings, migration and more on plane back to Rome
Heaven and hell in post-Vatican II Catholicism: How to move from fear to love
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This week, Jesuitical co-host Ashley McKinless and producer Sebastian Gomes speak to Michael W. Higgins about the spiritual master, Father Henri Nouwen (1932-1996). They explore Nouwen’s “wounded healer” approach to ministry, his brokenness and vulnerability, and his impact on contemporary Catholic thought.
In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and Zac discuss Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s visit to Pope Leo, plans for a border wall through a pilgrimage site, a cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest, and when customer service hung up on Pope Leo.
00:00 Who is Henri Nouwen?
2:51 Pope Leo meets Marco Rubio
7:42 A border wall through a pilgrimage site?
10:40 A cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest
12:39 Customer service hangs up on Pope Leo
15:40 You need to know Henri Nouwen
18:31 Henri Nouwen was an enigma
25:14 Nouwen's writings
31:23 How Nouwen understood priesthood
36:54 Intimacy, celibacy and homosexuality
41:17 Nouwen, the wounded healer
44:52 Good ministry isn't performative
48:39 How Nouwen prayed
58:00 Faith sharing: overcoming performative piety
Links:
Pope Leo XIV’s First Year
Pope Leo meets with Marco Rubio amid Trump’s personal attacks
Catholic diocese fights Trump administration plan to seize pilgrimage site for border wall Cosmetics millionaire turned seminarian, he’d give fortune ‘back a million times’ for Jesus
Story of customer service agent hanging up on Leo shows pope’s ‘normal’ side
"Genius Born of Anguish: The Life and Legacy of Henri Nouwen"
2026 Henri Nouwen Conference: "Longing for Home: The Prophetic Witness of Henri Nouwen in a Wounded World"
Henri Nouwen Society
Henri Nouwen: How to (actually) pray without ceasing
The Monk and The Cripple by Henri Nouwen, 1980
Podcast Deep Dive: The first American pope—how it happened and what it means
Performative piety: Why liturgy is not a space for self-expression
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Jesuitical’s co-host Zac Davis is joined by America's Vatican correspondent, Colleen Dulle, and executive editor Sebastian Gomes to assess the first year of Pope Leo XIV’s ministry as Bishop of Rome. They discuss Leo’s style, priorities and to what degree is continuing Pope Francis’ reforming agenda.
00:00 Pope Leo's first year
1:56 Can Pope Leo be claimed by the left or the right?
5:45 Is Pope Leo continuing Pope Francis' agenda?
13:30 Pope Leo's style
19:42 Women and sexuality
23:18 Is church unity the priority?
27:45 Pope Leo's appeals for peace
Links:
Pope Leo at year one: The progress of an American pope
Pope Leo’s powerful lesson in vulnerable leadership
Trump, Pope Leo, William F. Buckley and John XXIII: An overview of Popes and Politics in America
Pope Leo remembers ‘the great gift’ of Pope Francis on the first anniversary of his death
Pope Leo denounces those who use the name God for military gain
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac talk to Laura Kelly Fanucci, author of Living Easter: 50 Days to Practice Resurrection. Together, they discuss the tendency among Christians to overlook the 50-day Easter season, as well as Laura’s personal experiences and struggles practicing resurrection.
In Signs of the Times, Ashley and Zac speak with James Martin, S.J., editor at large for America, to unpack Pope Leo’s recent comments about blessings for same-sex couples and the church’s teaching on sexual morality.
And in As One Friend Speaks to Another, Ashley shares her experience taking on a new role at America and the graces that it has brought her.
00:00 Is Easter harder than Lent?
2:05 German bishops to bless same-sex couples
6:00 How Pope Leo responded
9:20 Church unity and sexual morality
12:43 Is the church at an impasse?
15:20 Is the Easter season too long?
18:34 How to practice Easter-ing
26:29 Resurrection stories to learn from
30:57 Resurrecting Pentecost
34:52 Uniting suffering to Christ
41:13 Grief, scars and resurrection in Minneapolis
48:20 Faith sharing
Links
Order Laura’s new book, Living Easter: 50 Days to Practice Resurrection
Pope Leo speaks on same-sex blessings, migration and more on plane back to Rome
Remarks on sexual ethics highlight Pope Leo’s pastoral priorities
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with Ryan Burge, author of the “Graphs about Religion” Substack and the new book, The Vanishing Church: How the Hollowing Out of Moderate Congregations Is Hurting Democracy, Faith, and Us. They discuss the polarization of U.S. Christianity and the supposed Gen-Z “religious revival.”
In Signs of the Times, Ashley and Zac discuss some highlights from Pope Leo’s trip to Africa; what Pope Leo called the not-exactly-accurate media narrative around him and President Trump; and the first anniversary of Pope Francis’ death.
00:00 A Gen-Z religious revival?
3:38 Highlights of Pope Leo's trip to Africa
10:05 VP Vance questions Pope Leo's theology
20:37 Remembering Pope Francis
22:50 Moderate Christianity is vanishing
25:49 U.S. religion is coded "conservative"
34:54 Catholic demographic trends
37:15 Political implications
40:53 Are young people going back to church?
48:18 Winner churches
52:56 Gen-Z religious trads
1:04:08 Faith Sharing: Pope Francis' humble tomb
Links:
Order Ryan’s book, The Vanishing Church
Graphs about Religion
Pope Leo walks in the footsteps of St. Augustine in Hippo
Pope Leo denounces those who use the name God for military gain
Pope Leo named one of Time magazine’s ‘100 Most Influential People of 2026’
Pope Leo remembers ‘the great gift’ of Pope Francis on the first anniversary of his death
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with John Carr, founder of Georgetown University’s Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life.
In “Signs of the Times,” a cross-promotion of America’s roundtable discussion between Ashley, Sam Sawyer, S.J., the president and editor in chief, and Colleen Dulle, Vatican correspondent and co-host of “Inside the Vatican,” on President Trump’s unprecedented social media attack on Pope Leo XIV.
00:00 President Trump's words for Pope Leo
1:55 Pope Leo's criticism of war
3:14 Pope Leo's response to Trump
5:26 U.S. Bishops respond to Trump
6:22 Reactions to Trump's tirade
8:03 Did Trump influence Leo's election?
11:00 Don't take the President's bait
14:40 Impact on U.S.-Vatican relations
19:10 John Carr wanted to be a priest and a senator
21:25 Catholic teaching on mass deportations
30:32 Catholic social teaching is a long, reliable tradition
37:05 Is social justice redeemable?
47:10 How money influences Catholic priorities
50:13 First impressions of Pope Leo
Links for further reading:
John Carr: Lessons from 50 years at the intersection of Catholic social teaching and public life
Reactions: President Trump lashes out at Pope Leo XIV
Trump is trying to distract us from Pope Leo’s calls for peace. Don’t take the bait.
Trump lambasts Pope Leo: ‘I’m not a fan.’
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This week on a special crossover episode of “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Colleen Dulle, host of the “Inside the Vatican” podcast, speak with Gerard O’Connell, America’s senior Vatican correspondent, and his wife Elisabetta Piqué about co-writing The Election of Pope Leo XIV: The Last Surprise of Pope Francis.
In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and guest host Sebastian break down Pope Leo’s first Holy Week and how it was shaped by the conflict between the United States and Iran. They also discuss astronaut Victor Glover, the pilot of the Artemis II mission, and his Easter message from space.
Finally, in “As One Friend Speaks to Another,” Ashley and Sebastian talk about how the death and resurrection of Christ can help us understand and live through the extremes of this past week’s news—the threat of Iran’s total destruction and the new heights reached by humanity in space.
Links:
The Election of Pope Leo XIV: The Last Surprise of Pope Francis, by Gerard O’Connell and Elisabetta Pique
Excerpt: Behind the scenes of Pope Leo XIV’s election
Pope Leo praises U.S.-Iran ceasefire as ‘sign of genuine hope,’ presses for peace
Pope Leo: Trump’s threat to destroy Iran ‘truly unacceptable’
What photos from the Artemis II astronauts say to us in a time of war
Artemis astronaut: Moon mission inspires wonder, prayer and unity
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In March 2026, the Vatican’s doctrine office released its final report on women’s participation in the life and leadership of the Catholic Church. The report brings to a close the two-year work of Study Group 5, which, as part of the Synod on Synodality, was tasked with studying women’s ministries and leadership. In this special roundtable conversation, editors at America magazine discuss the report’s content and proposals, and ask if the document changes the status quo for women in the Catholic Church.
Featuring:
Ashley McKinless, executive editor and co-host of the “Jesuitical” podcast
Kerry Weber, executive editor
Colleen Dulle, Vatican correspondent and co-host of the “Inside the Vatican” podcast
Molly Cahill, associate editor
0:00 The Vatican’s final report on women and ministry
4:23 Women’s reactions to the report
11:28 New ministries for women?
20:05 The horizons and limits of women’s authority
30:30 Will women be involved in decision-making?
Links:
The final synod report on women: what it says, what it means and what’s next
Where the women deacons question stands at the Vatican
Full Report of Study Group 5 on “The Participation of Women in the Life and Leadership of the Church”
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with Bishop Michael Martin, O.F.M. Conv., of the Diocese of Charlotte. Bishop Martin sparked headlines in 2025 when a document leaked with plans to restrict the Latin Mass and other liturgical practices in his diocese.
Ashley, Zac and Bishop Martin discuss:
- His pastoral priorities as bishop of Charlotte
- Changes to the celebration of the Latin Mass in his diocese
- How he approaches his outspoken critics within his community—and online
In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and Zac discuss the recent sexual abuse allegations against Cesar Chavez; Pope Leo’s call for bishops to come to Rome for a meeting on the family in October 2026; and a Belgian bishop who said he will “make every effort” to ordain married men as priests by the year 2028. Finally, in light of Easter coming up, Zac and Ashley talk about the pope’s favorite candy, Peeps!
Finally, in “As One Friend Speaks to Another,” Ashley talks about her experience inadvertently unplugging on a recent trip and the spiritual freedom found from it.
Links for further reading:
How the cover-up of Cesar Chavez’s abuse mirrored the clergy sex abuse crisis
What you need to know about Pope Leo’s October meeting on marriage and family
Belgian bishop says he will ‘make every effort’ to ordain married men by 2028
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This week on a special episode of “Jesuitical,” Ashley, Zac and Jesuitical producer Sebastian have a conversation with Dr. James Finley about first-half-of-life mysticism. Jim is a clinical psychologist and faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation where he teaches and writes on the Christian mystical tradition. He’s also the host of the podcast, ‘Turning to the Mystics.’
0:00 A special episode on mysticism
3:00 How Jim Finley discovered monasteries
12:00 An introduction to interior prayer
22:48 Where to start
24:30 How to stay patient
28:40 When life gets busy
34:48 Cultivating silence in your life
39:50 Finding God in trauma
41:45 Trusting your own experiences of God
48:00 Is God really inside of us?
51:00 Where mysticism and formal religion intersect
56:15 Does mystical experience relativize religion?
Links for further reading:
Jim’s podcast, “Turning to the Mystics with James Finley”
The Center for Action and Contemplation
Merton's Palace of Nowhere
The Healing Path: A Memoir and an Invitation
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and Zac speak with Timothy Shriver, chairman of Special Olympics and founder of the nonprofit UNITE, which incubated the Dignity Index, a language evaluation tool that aims to bring greater dignity to our public discourse.
0:00 Welcome back Zac Davis!
2:35 A new papal nuncio to the U.S.A.
6:27 Cardinals respond to Iran war
9:04 Synod report on women released
10:27 Tim Shriver's holy family
13:04 What is the dignity index?
18:57 Contempt is the problem
24:00 What's your dignity score?
30:52 What dignity really means
38:20 Responding to contempt with dignity
46:00 How to do it
51:48 Is the Catholic Church a model?
54:32 Influence of Pope Leo XIV
58:50 Updates and faith sharing
Links for further reading:
Pope Leo appoints Archbishop Caccia as nuncio to the United States
Iran’s Cardinal Mathieu evacuated to Rome
Pope Leo expresses ‘deep sorrow’ for Lebanese Maronite Catholic priest killed by Israeli tank fire
Final synod report on women’s leadership does not address female diaconate
The Dignity Index
Need a Lift? With Tim Shriver
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley sits down with America’s chief correspondent, Kevin Clarke, to discuss the widening conflict with Iran and whether the U.S. intervention in the conflict can be justified under just war theory.
Then, we re-share one of our favorite interviews from last year: a conversation with Jamie Baxter, the founder & C.E.O. of Exodus 90. The program, which helps men to strengthen their faith through prayer, asceticism and fraternity, faced some early skepticism from some in the church—and the “Jesuitical” team—that gave way to greater understanding and valuable innovation.
Links for further reading:
Against Unjust and Unjustified War with Iran
I regret supporting the Iraq War. We shouldn’t repeat our mistakes in Iran now.
Cardinal Parolin on Iran war: ‘The force of law has been replaced by the law of force’
Lebanese archbishop: Innocents are ‘paying the price’ of Middle East war
Pope Leo urges a halt to ‘spiral of violence’ across Iran and Middle East
Sorrow, shock for Catholics in Middle East as US and Israel strike Iran amid negotiations
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This week on a special, interview-only episode of “Jesuitical,” Ashley and guest host Sebastian talk with James Martin, S.J., editor at large for America, about his new memoir Work in Progress: Confessions of a busboy, dishwasher, caddy, usher, factory worker, bank teller, corporate tool, and priest.
Ashley, Sebastian and Father Jim discuss:
The differences in writing an autobiography vs. a book on prayer
Balancing ambition and meaning
Jim’s eventual decision to choose a life and career in the Jesuits
Links for further reading:
Buy Father Jim’s book here
Father James Martin: Lessons from mowing lawns, riding bikes and a fateful walk to school
Check out the book’s Spotify playlist here
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Timecodes
0:00 Jim Martin has a new book: “Work in Progress”
2:13 Why Jim decided to write an autobiography on his jobs
8:19 The importance of menial labor and service
11:45 Getting free of our desire to be liked and popular
16:36 How Jim learned to distinguish ambition v. meaning
21:14 The impact of Thomas Merton on Jim’s spiritual life
25:30 Jim’s first mystical experience in the beauty of nature
35:36 Called to the Jesuits
42:15 Jim would canonize Fr. Greg Boyle, S.J.
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This week on “Jesuitical,” Ashley and guest host Sebastian sit down with Kristen Gilger, author of My Son, The Priest: A Mother’s Crisis of Faith and her son, Patrick Gilger, S.J., to discuss their interwoven journeys of faith.
0:00 Critiquing our ashes
3:00 Pope Leo's first Ash Wednesday
4:35 Vatican won't join "Board of Peace"
5:50 St. Peter's has a new snack bar!
8:10 Kristin's shock when Paddy joined the Jesuits
16:58 The challenges of poverty, chastity and obedience
22:00 Giving up marriage and a family
34:45 Cafeteria Catholicism
38:35 Reconciliation without agreement
45:10 Being open to change
50:22 Catholicism's lingering appeal
1:04:25 Faith sharing: love your enemies
Links for further reading:
My son became a priest. I still felt conflicted about God and religion.
Buy Kristen’s Book: My Son, The Priest: A Mother’s Crisis of Faith
Pope Leo on Ash Wednesday: It’s ‘rare to find adults who repent’
Vatican will not join Trump’s ‘Board of Peace’ for Gaza, Cardinal Parolin says
Vatican expands visitor experience at St. Peter’s Basilica to mark 400th anniversary
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