Episodes
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A focused guide to using heat training during winterâwhy it works, what adaptations youâre actually chasing, and how to implement sauna, hot water immersion, or layering protocols safely and strategically.
Heat training is usually framed as something you do before a hot race. But the physiological adaptations donât care what month it is. Plasma volume expansion, improved thermal regulation, and cardiovascular efficiency can all support training during winterâeven if race day will be cold.
This episode is an edited and streamlined version of Episode 4, where we originally covered heat training in depth. Here, weâve removed the broader discussion of racing in hot environments and narrowed the focus to one question: How can runners use heat protocols intentionally during winter training to enhance performance?
Episode Description
This episode is a practical, research-backed breakdown of how to apply heat training protocols during winter running.
Matt and Molly revisit the primary studies that shaped their understanding of heat adaptation, then walk through:
Why heat training matters beyond hot race preparation
The physiological mechanisms behind heat adaptations
The three core methods for inducing heat stress
How to implement layering, sauna, and hot water immersion during winter
How long adaptations last and how to maintain them
When to schedule heat exposure within a training cycle
Key safety considerations to avoid digging a recovery hole
Rather than treating heat training as seasonal, this episode reframes it as a tool. One that, when applied carefully, can support cardiovascular development, resilience, and recovery during winter blocks when training quality matters most.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding
01:11 Context for Episode And Focus On Heat Training Protocols During Winter Training
02:23 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For This Episode
03:57 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training
06:39 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging
11:41 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances
13:30 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training
14:37 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations
16:46 Protocol by Protocol Analysis
17:09 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment
36:28 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps
38:39 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations
41:01 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations
46:03 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations
48:26 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training
52:31 Safety Considerations When Heat Training
Top 5 Takeaways
Heat training is not just for hot races.
The adaptationsâplasma volume expansion, improved cardiovascular efficiency, and thermoregulationâcan support winter training blocks as well.Layering and passive heat exposure are often the most practical winter tools.
You donât need a hot climate. Strategic layering during runs or post-workout sauna/HWI can induce meaningful adaptations.The goal is controlled stress, not exhaustion.
Youâre chasing adaptation, not dehydration or glycogen depletion. Overdoing it can compromise recovery.Adaptations are transient but quickly re-established.
Benefits can fade within roughly two weeks without exposure, but can often be restored in just a few sessions.Safety matters more in winter than people think.
Heat protocols layered onto hard winter training can create cumulative stress. Hydration, fueling, iron status, and recovery awareness are essential. -
Always training, never improving? How periodization fixes your running by helping you plan an entire season, not just the next race.
Most runners know how to train for a race. Far fewer know how to train for a season.
Trusting that a more holistic approach to your training over a year, can be daunting, but it doesn't have to be. This episode examines why so many runners feel stuck in a cycle of constant training, frequent racing, and nagging fatigue. Matt and Molly explore how the pressure to always be âin shapeâ or ârace readyâ quietly erodes long-term progress, and why time off is not a failure of discipline but a necessary part of improvement.
Drawing from coaching experience, personal mistakes, and the realities of modern running culture, they unpack periodization as more than a buzzword. Instead, it becomes a framework for understanding when to push, when to build, when to sharpen, and when to step back. The conversation reframes downtime as productive, structure as liberating rather than restrictive, and progress as something measured over months and years, not just race weekends.
Episode Description:
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly tackle one of the most overlooked problems in running: training hard all the time without getting better.
They break down periodization, not as a rigid system reserved and eligible for elite athletes, but as a practical way to think about an entire training year. From off-seasons and base building to race-specific preparation and recovery, they explain how each phase fits together, and why skipping any of them often leads to burnout, stagnation, or injury.
Together, they cover:
Why racing too often can stall progress and increase injury risk
What periodization actually means, beyond downloaded 16-week plans
The role of the offseason and why time off does not equal lost fitness
How to structure transition, preparatory, pre-competition, and competition phases
Where Zone 2 training, strength work, and volume really belong in a season
How to balance social running, races, and long-term goals
Common mistakes runners make when theyâre always training but never improving
Along the way, Matt and Molly share personal examples, coaching insights, and practical ways to rethink your relationship with training. Whether youâre chasing a PR, navigating a packed race calendar, or trying to stay healthy year after year, this episode offers a clearer framework for planning smarter and running better.
Chapter List:
00:00 Introduction and Reflections on Needing To Take Time Off
03:05 Managing the Offseason: Insights and Strategies
06:26 Why We Wanted To Do This Episode and Our Agenda
11:47 Overview of Running Plan Periodization And Phases Of a Training Cycle
15:05 Major Benefits of Incorporating All Of these Phases In A Training Cycle
22:07 Transition Phase: A Methodical Approach Between Major Training Bouts
38:09 Preparatory Phase: Building Your Base, Your Strength, And Engine
44:03 Preparatory Phase: Where Zone 2 Training Sits and Increased Aerobic Volume
48:52 Preparatory Phase: Balancing Volume and Intensity and Lifting
55:59 Pre-Competition Phase: Fine-Tuning the Engine
01:02:25 Pre-Competition Phase Cross Training, Strength Training, and Recap
01:09:35 Competition Phase: Race Specific Training
01:17:55 Post-Race Transition and Recovery
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A live conversation with Nick Thompson on curiosity, endurance, and a complicated relationship with both a father and the simplest of sports: running.
This conversation between Nick Thompson and David Alm, a Brooklyn-based journalist, professor, and runner, offers a window to Nickâs process in writing The Running Ground, and to the people, stories, and moments that made it into the final draft and what didn't. Recorded live at Baklineâs HQ, the episode captures Nick in dialogue rather than interview, reflecting with David on the journalistic process, the discipline of editing, and the characters in his life, most notably his father, who shaped the person he has become.
There is much to be gained from reading or listening to The Running Ground, the audio version of which Nick himself narrates. Its opening chapter alone should be required reading for anyone preparing to step onto the New York City Marathon starting line. What emerges in this rare and candid conversation, though, is something broader: a meditation on perspective and curiosity, and on how our understanding of our own abilities shifts over time.
Along the way, Nick reflects on his relationship with his father and the role running has played in his ability to build and maintain a truly exceptional life, offering insight on how the sport can not only facilitate escape and drive, but also help us make sense of the world.
At its core, this conversation speaks to the importance of paying attention: to our bodies, to the relationships we build, and to the quiet ways we can learn to embrace all that makes us who we areârather than trying to outrun it.
Special thanks to the Brooklyn Greenway Initiative and The Atlantic for their support of this event.
Chapter List:
00:00 Introduction and Background
04:43 The Journey of Writing The Running Ground
10:14 Exploring Personal Connections and Themes
21:16 The Editorial Process: Structure and Format
24:14 The Editorial Process: The People Who Have Entered Nick's Life and Imparted Key Lessons
30:18 Writing About Yourself Journalistically
36:50 The Pain of Running and Broader Life Lessons
42:19 The Endurance Of Running and Its Impact on Nick
45:20 Approaching Running with Undying Curiosity
50:23 Pushing Limits: Personal Records and Race Experiences
53:54 Cultural Influences on Running and Personal Growth
55:13 Q&A: Current State of Running Culture
58:51 Q&A: Fatherhood, Relationships, and Emotional Connections
01:02:09 Q&A: Media Industry Insights and the Role of Running
01:02:44 Q&A: Nick's Personal Pursuits and Current State of Media
01:07:55 Q&A: Exploring Personal Archives and Memoir Writing
01:11:18 Q&A: Recommended Running Literature
01:12:44 Q&A: Evolving Running Goals With Age
01:18:25 Q&A: Favorite Greenway Runs and Community Engagement
01:20:58 Promoting the Book and Final Thoughts
Key Takeaways
Perspective shapes ability
One of the central insights of the conversation is that limits are often internal before they are physical. Nickâs experience shows how a shift in perspective can unlock capacities we didnât realize were still available.
Endurance is less about toughness and more about attention
Running emerges not as an exercise in brute force, but as a practice in listening to your body, and to your pain. The same attentiveness applies beyond sport, shaping how we can move through work and stress.
Understanding a parent often requires time, distance, and reconstruction
Nickâs reflections on his father are not about resolution, but context. Through diaries, archives, interviews, and memory, he comes to see how running helped his father hold together a complicated life.
Curiosity sustains long arcs better than optimization
Whether in running, writing, or navigating change at a major organization, curiosity proves more enduring than a fixation on outcomes.
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From trial and error to precision, this episode unpacks why knowing how salty a sweater you are can unlock better fueling, hydration, and performance.
Episode Description:
Most runners know when their legs are tired, when their heart rate is higher than they'd like, and when their watch disagrees with reality, but far fewer know whatâs actually happening in their sweat. And yet, hidden in those grains of salt is a story about performance, cramping, gut trouble, bonking, and why two athletes with identical race fuel and hydration plans can do the same race with wildly different outcomes.
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly talk with Andy Blow â endurance athlete, sports scientist, and founder of Precision Fuel & Hydration, to explore the messy, fascinating world of electrolytes.
From Andyâs own battles with hypernatremia to the science behind sweat testing, the conversation pulls apart the myths, marketing, and misunderstandings that keep athletes guessing. Itâs a journey from personal experiment to practical insight, showing how something as simple as knowing your sweat composition can reshape your entire fueling strategy and help you be a more informed athlete.
Whether your kit dries white after every run or leaves almost nothing behind, this episode helps you understand why it matters and how your electrolyte losses can guide smarter fueling and hydration.
They cover:
âAndyâs winding path from triathlon to sports science to founding Precision Fuel & HydrationâWhy two athletes can lose tenfold different amounts of sodium â and why that mattersâHow sweat testing works, what it reveals, and why most athletes only need to do it onceâThe ât-shirt sizingâ analogy for understanding your own sweat salinityâHow electrolytes influence fuel absorption, cramps, GI distress, and race-day performanceâThe philosophy behind separating fuel from hydration â and why combination products arenât always idealâReal-world examples of hydration strategies, from short runs to Western States-level heatâWhat 2:1 vs. 1:0.8 carb ratios actually mean, and when those differences matterâThe differences between hypotonic, isotonic, and hypertonic drinksâWhy marketing oversimplifies hydration â and how to navigate the noiseâResearch connecting sweat composition to bone mineral densityâFinding a healthy relationship with data, wearables, and metricsâFuture innovations in sports nutrition â from packaging to apparel to carrying fuel more comfortablyWhether you're training for your first 10K or trying to solve the mystery of mid-race cramps, this episode helps you understand your physiology â and build a hydration strategy that actually fits.
Chapter List:
00:00 Introduction to Precision Fuel and Hydration
03:09 Andy's Personal and Professional Career Path
05:41 Andy Blow's Athletic Journey and Founding Story
06:26 The Science Behind Sweat Testing and Electrolyte Needs
09:26 Growth and Evolution of Precision Fuel and Hydration
12:38 The Impact of COVID-19 on Business Strategy
16:11 Philosophy of Separation in Fuel and Hydration Products And the Myth That None of It Matters
20:56 The Role of Electrolytes in Performance
23:53 Insights from Formula 1 Experience
26:51 The Importance of Sweat Testing for Athletes
27:13 Getting Into The Science Of It All, T-Shirt Sizing The Salinity Of Your Sweat And The Case For Seeking Out That Information
37:38 Hydration Strategies for Athletes
42:35 Understanding Carbohydrate Ratios in Fueling
50:13 The Science of Osmolality in Sports Drinks
53:57 Evolving Beliefs in Sports Nutrition
59:01 Andy's Research on Sweat Salinity and Bone Health
01:03:37 The Role of Data in Athletic Performance
01:08:37 Future Innovations in Sports Nutrition and Gear
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A clear, grounded look at strength training for runnersâwhat to do, how to start, and why the gym doesnât need to feel overwhelming.
Strength training is supposed to make running feel betterâstronger legs, sturdier tendons, fewer injuries. But for a lot of runners, it does the opposite: it sparks stress, uncertainty, and that familiar urge to skip the gym entirely. The machines look confusing, the weights look heavy, and the fear of âdoing it wrongâ becomes its own workout.
In this episode, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to make strength training feel genuinely approachable. They break down how muscles, tendons, and bones adapt, why âbulking upâ isnât something runners need to fear, and how simple, consistent lifting can support your running without adding pressure.`
From navigating the weight room with confidence to choosing weights, reps, and routines that make sense, this conversation reframes strength work as something you can fit into your training with a clear and practical roadmapânot something to stress over.
Exercise Cheatsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18lD9J0t1QrNQXjoqioAkNn1xav_LSUoycuuMSZcBcng/edit?usp=sharing
Episode Description
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to cover a ton of practical information for newbies and reminders for veterans. Together, they demystify strength training for runnersâwhat to do, how to start, and why the gym doesnât need to feel intimidating.
Together, they explore the fundamentals of building stronger muscles, bones, and tendons, while breaking down the mental and practical barriers that keep so many runners from lifting in the first place.
They cover:
Why strength training helps runners from tendon stiffness and bone density to fatigue resistance and better form
Myths that hold runners back
How to feel less intimidated in the gym
Using machines vs. dumbbells
Single-leg work and why it matters with increased stability, and better balance
How to pick weights and reps when understanding your RPE
Plyometrics made simple
Home and hotel workouts that work when you donât have access to a gym
Creatine for runners and what it does and doesn't help
Footwear for lifting and why running shoes often work against you in the weight room
How to fit strength into a training cycle including hard-day/hard-day pairing
The Necessity of Multi-planar movement
Chapter List
00:00 Introduction to Cuyler Hudson
02:24 Overview Of The Episode: The Benefits of Strength for Runners, Making the Gym More Approachable, And What To Do When You Get There
03:53 The Benefits of Strength For Runners Across Muscles, Bones, and Tendons
08:57 Debunking Common Myths About Strength For Runners: Bulking Up and Slowing Down
15:06 Impact of Strength Training on Running Performance
21:15 Reducing the Mental and Physical Barriers of Entry in Getting Into and Moving About The Gym
22:23 Using Machines vs. Free Weights
25:21 The Importance of Single Leg Exercises
27:56 Addressing the Fear of Asking Questions About The Gym and Turning To ChatGPT for Answers
33:28 Understanding Weight Selection for Beginners
39:37 Progressing in Strength Training: Reps and Weights. How much is too much or too little.
42:43 Home Workouts: Effective Exercises Without a Gym
49:55 Bodyweight Exercises, Hotel Workouts, and Where Yoga and Breathing Fit In
57:42 Fueling and Hydration for Strength Training
01:02:21 Understanding Creatine and Its Benefits In the Weight Room Or On The Road
01:05:26 Fueling for Performance: Nutrition and Hydration, What We Should Do and Avoid
01:08:34 Choosing the Right Footwear for Lifting
01:10:38 Understanding Different Workout Types And Workout Set Construction
01:17:00 Layering In Strength Training Program Into A Running Training Cycle
01:20:34 Off-Season Strength Training Strategies And Time Till You See Results
01:23:34 Ensuring you Do Multi-Planar Movements
01:26:38 Addressing Strength and Endurance Interference
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How to taper with confidence and pace your best NYC Marathon, mile after mile.
Youâve done the training for the NYC Marathon. Now comes the hardest partâtrusting yourself. The taper and pacing strategy often get too little attention, too late. We set time goals, have a rough pace in mind, and let it rip. But if we donât approach the start line with intention, we risk losing the discipline that gets us to the finish we want.
In this episode, Matt and Molly offer a framework for thinking about the taperâhow long it should last, how much intensity to keepâand the pacing strategies that make or break your race, including the scariest of them all: the negative split. Youâll come away better equipped to manage the restlessness of race week, hold back early when the crowds surge, and finish the NYC Marathon feeling strong instead of spent.
Episode Description
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take on the final stretch before the NYC Marathonâthe taper, pacing strategy, and mindset that shape how race day unfolds. Itâs the stage that can spark as much anxiety as excitement: mileage drops, energy shifts, and the urge to âprove fitnessâ in those final days before the race can undo weeks of good training.
They unpack what runners often overlook in these last few weeks and how small, intentional adjustments can lead to a stronger, more controlled race. Together, they cover:
The Taper: How long it should last, how much volume to cut, and why intensity still matters
Managing Race Week: Why restlessness is normalâand how to handle it with patience instead of panic
Carb Loading Basics: How to approach it across several days instead of one big pre-race meal
Race Planning and Visualization: How to approach the NYC Marathon with intention, not adrenaline
Pacing Strategies: The key frameworks for smart racingânegative splitting, the 10-10-10 rule, and even-effort pacing
Weather Considerations: Adapting expectations when conditions get hot, humid, or windy
Through coaching insight, data, and experience, they show that finishing strong isnât about squeezing in one last workoutâitâs about executing the work youâve already done. Whether youâre chasing a PR, a BQ, or simply looking to enjoy the day, this episode helps you line up calm, confident, and ready to run your best NYC Marathon.
Chapter List:
00:00 Introduction to Part 2 of Our NYC Marathon Course Strategy and Carb Loading In Brief
06:40 How To Manage The Emotions of The Taper
08:58 The Taper: How Long, and How Much Volume
16:30 The Taper: Level of Intensity and Impact to Performance
23:36 Race Planning and Strategy, and Race Day Visualiztion
27:22 Primary Marathon Pacing Strategies: Even Effort v Even Paces, Negative Splitting, and The 10-10-10 Approach
34:32 Weather Considerations for Race Day
36:24 Final Thoughts and Advice: Do Not Go Out Too Fast!
For an in depth look at race day logistics and segment by segment look at the course, see Part 1 (Bonus Episode 1).
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Baklineâs guide to tackling the TCS NYC Marathonâsection by section, from the Verrazzano to Central Park.
It starts earlyâhours before the start gunâwith runners moving through the slow ritual of getting to Staten Island. The ferryâs crowded and buzzing, the buses crawl through traffic, and everyoneâs half awake, half anxious, wondering if they packed enough snacks. Itâs all part of the race before the race. Matt and Molly break down what that morning really feels like, and how to handle every stretch of the TCS New York City Marathon once you finally hit hear the cannon that sets you on your way.
Episode Description
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take runners mile by mile through the worldâs most iconic marathon: New York City. Drawing on their personal experiences and coaching insights, they unpack every element of race dayâfrom pre-dawn logistics on Staten Island to the emotional charge of entering Central Park.
Matt and Molly cover the practical details that make or break a smooth race morningâtiming breakfast, navigating transport, managing nerves, and adjusting for daylight savingsâbefore diving deep into a section-by-section course strategy. From the Verrazzano Bridge to First Avenue to the final turn onto Central Park South, they share what to expect, where to hold back, and how to find rhythm amid the crowds.
Whether itâs your first time running New York or your tenth, this episode gives you the insider perspective to approach the course with confidence, calm, and respect for the challenge.
NOTE: This podcast episode is not affiliated in any way with New York Road Runners nor do we claim any association or ownership related to their trademarks. This is an informational discussion about the race by Bakline, based on our experience and not as an official spokesperson for the organization that puts on the marathon.
Chapter List
00:00 Introduction and Personal Experiences with the New York City Marathon
06:58 Course Strategy Overview and Key Elements
07:44 Getting to Staten Island
09:02 Timing Your Breakfasts and Remembering Daylight Savings
11:23 Race Morning Checklist
13:30 Getting to The Start: The Ferry
18:21 Getting to The Start: The Bus
20:56 Navigating Athletes / Starting Village
25:26 Starting Line Wave Times
28:02 The Course: Overall Elevation Profile
30:30 The Course: (1) Navigating the Verrazano Bridge
34:51 The Course: (2) Exiting the Verrazzano, Converging with Others, and Fourth Ave
37:49 The Course: (3) Lafayette Through The Half
44:45 The Course: (4) Queens and The Queensboro Bridge
50:36 The Course: (5) First Ave, Heading to the Bronx
56:49 The Course: (6) The Boogie Down Bronx Experience
59:08 The Course: (7) Returning to Manhattan, Marcus Garvey Park, And the Dreaded 5th Avenue Hill
01:02:57 The Course: (8) Entering Central Park!
01:05:42 The Course: (9) Exiting The Park, Central Park South, and the Finish!
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A practical framework for fueling that explores the history and science of race nutrition to help you understand the products on the shelf, turning confusion into confidence.
It starts with a wall of brightly colored gels and drink mixes, each promising endurance in a pouch. Runners swear by their favorites, but few can explain why they workâor donât. Matt and Molly pull back the curtain on the science and history behind those packets, turning a maze of sugar ratios, salt counts, and gut grumbles into something you can actually understand. They examine why some products seem to love you while others ruin your race, practically breaking down the make up of different products out there, and what the science actually says about how our bodies use all this stuff.
Episode Description:
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take on one of runningâs most confusing topics: fueling. They trace how we went from ancient âperformance foodsâ to modern gels and drink mixes, and why understanding whatâs inside those packets can make all the difference.
Together, they cover:
How fueling evolved from ancient rituals to modern sports science
The difference between energy systems â carbs, fats, and how the body actually uses them
What âisotonic,â âhypertonic,â and â2:1 ratiosâ really mean, and how those formulas affect absorption and gut comfort
Why some products upset your stomach while others donât
How to approach carb loading and in-race fueling more strategically
The myths and mistakes that keep runners underfueled
And how to navigate the wall of options on the shelf with more confidence
Along the way, they share personal fueling mishaps (including Mattâs maple syrup era), laugh through gut science, and translate complex research into clear, practical insight.
Whether youâre training for your first half marathon or trying to shave minutes off a PR, this episode will help you understand what your body needs â and fuel smarter for whateverâs next.
Fuel Selector Google Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u7Rh8LWrgB_9B3kKKpKMwTEnqXyRcc0js1UYw4vwTCg/edit?usp=sharing
Chapter List:
00:00 Introduction, Matt's Fueling Eras, and Why This Episode Matters
09:08 Agenda for the Episode
10:00 Historical Perspectives on Nutrition and Performance
16:09 The Evolution of Sports Training and Nutrition
20:06 Understanding Energy Systems: Carbs
29:22 Understanding Energy Systems: Fats
40:15 The Impact of Carbohydrates on Performance
47:07 Understanding How Nutrition Products Incorporate What We Know Of These Energy Systems Into Their Formulas
49:27 Understanding Sugar Ratios in Sports Nutrition
55:21 Isotonic vs Hypertonic Fuels: What You Need to Know
01:04:49 Carbohydrate Requirements for Endurance Events
01:13:17 The Importance of Carb Loading Before Races
01:28:03 Troubleshooting Nutrition Issues During Races
References:
Currell K, Jeukendrup AE. Superior endurance performance with ingestion of multiple transportable carbohydrates. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008 Feb;40(2):275-81. doi: 10.1249/mss.0b013e31815adf19. PMID: 18202575.
Sedlock DA. The latest on carbohydrate loading: a practical approach. Curr Sports Med Rep. 2008 Jul-Aug;7(4):209-13. doi: 10.1249/JSR.0b013e31817ef9cb. PMID: 18607222.
Arnall, D.A., A.G. Nelson, J. Quigley, et al. Supercompensated glycogen loads persist 5 days in resting trained cyclists. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 99:251Y256, 2007.
Jeukendrup, A.E. Training the Gut for Athletes. Sports Med 47 (Suppl 1), 101â110 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1007/s40279-017-0690-6
W Larry Kenney,Jack H Wilmore,David L Costill. Physiology of Sport and Exercise 8th Edition s
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More than Americaâs oldest ultramarathon, the JFK 50 endures because of the kindness, community, and love that Mike Spinnler has nurtured across generations.
Most races donât last six decades. Every November, the JFK 50 unfolds across the Appalachian Trail, a canal towpath, and country roads as a 50-mile test that has become the oldest continuously running ultramarathon in the United States. But what makes it endure isnât just the course or its history. Itâs the people who return year after year, the community that shows up in droves to ensure this race will not quit, and the race director who has quietly shaped it for more than three decades as only the second in its history.
Mike Spinnler has been at the heart of the JFK 50 as runner, champion, and steward, carrying forward a tradition that continues to inspire generations. He is, in many ways, the archetype of a role model. In this conversation, we reflect on how the course has shaped the athletes who run it, the volunteers who support it, and the man who has devoted his life to directing it.
Episode Description:
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with Mike Spinnler, race director of the JFK 50, the oldest continuously run ultramarathon in the United States. They explore how the race has endured for more than 60 years â and why it continues to inspire across generations.
Together, they cover:
Mikeâs journey from 12-year-old participant to champion, and eventually to race director
The stewardship lessons he learned from Buzz Sawyer and Greg Shank, and how he carries their legacy forward
How kindness, community, and love have shaped the race as much as rules, permits, and logistics
The role of volunteers, families, and local communities in sustaining the JFK 50
The balance between tradition and change â from aid stations and cutoffs to super shoes and evolving strategies
The challenges of race directing: from financial risk to government shutdowns, blizzards, and even the Beltway sniper
What inspires Mike personally, and how he knows, without any doubt, the JFK 50 will thrive long after he steps aside
Whether youâre a seasoned ultrarunner, a first-time marathoner, or someone who simply cares about what makes communities strong, this episode offers an inside look at why the JFK 50 is more than just a race â itâs a living legacy.
Chapter List
00:00 Introduction to JFK 50 and Mike Spinnler Journey
08:51 Mike's Early Running Experiences and Influences
13:52 Transitioning to Competitive Running, And Winning the JFK50
23:47 Becoming the Race Director of JFK 50, And How Having the Best Partner Helps
30:39 How the JFK Keeps Going
35:58 The Importance of a Team Behind You And Delegation
39:13 Resilience and Persistence in the Face of Persistent and Resilient Challenges
42:56 Navigating Change and Tradition
45:33 The Role of Aid Stations in Leveling The Playing Field
53:58 The Famous 3 x 10m Marathon Paced (In a Day) Workout
01:00:57 Approaching Mike's Directing of the JFK50 More As A Coach Than An Administrator
01:05:10 Impact of Shoe Technology
01:06:52 Weaverton Cliffs And Watching Your Step
01:08:10 Navigating the Appalachian Trail
01:10:09 The Magic Of JFK50 Aid Stations And Volunteer Community
01:18:02 Advice for New Runners of the JFK50
01:24:37 For Mike, the JFK50 is like Christmas Morning And He's Excited To See What Will Happen
01:27:09 Supporting Runners Through ALL Paces, Not Just The Leaders
01:30:00 The Personal Impact of Race Directing And The Obligation Mike Feels To Those That Have Not Experienced The Race
01:35:08 Spontaneous Selflessness and Humanity Is All Around
01:39:38 Reflecting On How JFK50 Has Changed Him, The Power of Sports, And Giving Back
01:48:38 Advice Time: The Inside Tips On A Successful JFK50
02:02:23 Final Reflections
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A practical guide to hiring a running coach â when to seek one, how to choose and work with one confidently, and why they can make all the difference.
Most runners think about hiring a coach only when theyâre chasing a big PR or a major race. But the reality is that coaching isnât just for elites, and it isnât just about getting faster. The right coach at the right time can help you break through plateaus, return from setbacks with confidence, or simply take the decision fatigue out of training. And while coaching can be transformative, not every coachâathlete match worksâknowing what to look for (and what to avoid) can make all the difference.
Episode Description
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take a practical look at the when, how, and why of hiring a running coach. Drawing on their own experiences as athletes and coaches, they explore what makes the coaching relationship truly valuable beyond the plan itselfâand how runners can get the most out of it.
They walk through the key parts of the process:
Why runners hire coaches â from chasing performance goals to wanting structure, support, or accountability
Common barriers to hiring â cost, feeling like you're not worthy of coaching or that you need to be faster, or the social elements of running with a club or with your friends (all of which a good coach can help you manage and feel confident)
What coaches can (and canât) do â from individualized plans and race strategy to dispelling myths about gait analysis (which really can't be done visually) or âmagic workoutsâ
How to evaluate a coach â key questions to ask, understanding certifications, and exploring what experience they have with people like you
How to be coachable â building trust, communicating openly, and knowing when it might be time to move on
Red flags to watch for â warning signs that a coaching relationship may not be the right fit
Whether youâre considering coaching for the first time, thinking about switching coaches, or simply looking to get more from the relationship you already have, this episode gives you the tools to approach coaching with clarity and confidence.
Chapters
00:00 Our First Interaction With A Coach in High School
06:18 The Why, When, and How of Finding A Coach - Our Agenda
07:59 All The Reasons Runners Might Hire A Coach - Good And Bad
16:47 Primary Drivers Behind What Prevents us or is a Barrier to Hiring a Coach
26:11 How Coaches Can Help Athletes
33:31 Coaching Can Help In Understanding How Running Should Feel And Integrating Strength
39:40 The Role of Coaches in Race Planning
41:37 Setting Expectations: Things Coaches Can't Do (Like Visual Gait Analysis)
51:17 Setting Expectations: There is No Magic Workout or Secret Sauce
53:50 Communicating What We Want and Need Out of Coaching
01:04:48 Questions You Should Ask A Potential Coach
01:10:35 Evaluating Coach Qualifications and Certifications
01:22:47 How to Be A Coachable Athlete
01:33:38 Identifying Red Flags in Coaching Relationships
01:42:54 When It Might Be Time To Leave A Coach
Key Takeaways
Coaching is about more than a plan. An individualized workout schedule is the bare minimum. The true value comes from problem-solving and helping athletes maximize training around the realities of life.
Know your reasons for hiring a coach. Performance goals, structure, accountability, or breaking plateaus are all valid motivationsâbut intrinsic motivation matters most.
Set realistic expectations. Coaches canât provide magic workouts or fix biomechanics with a glance. What they can do is help you train smarter.
Evaluate both sides of the relationship. Ask potential coaches about their philosophy, experience with athletes like you, and how they stay current. Be honest with yourself about what you need.
Watch for red flags and know when to move on. Signs include coaches who donât listen, insist on absolutes (âeveryone must run 180 cadenceâ), take credit for your success but dodge responsibility for setbacks.
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A practical guide to heat training for endurance runners âwhy it works, the science behind it, and how to apply protocols to boost performance year-round.
Most non-elite endurance athletes are leaving performance gains on the table. Heat trainingâoften dismissed as something you only do before a hot raceâis one of the most misunderstood and underutilized tools in the sport. Done right, it can boost cardiovascular capacity, improve recovery, and prepare you to train harder for longerâno matter the conditions on race day.
In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly explore the overlooked benefits and surprising versatility of heat training. Through stories from their own racing and coaching, they show how it can be more than a summer survival skillâitâs a year-round performance weapon hiding in plain sight.
Episode Description
This episode is your practical, research-backed guide to heat trainingâcovering nearly everything an endurance athlete needs to know to apply it effectively and safely.
Matt and Molly break down the most up-to-date science on how heat affects performance, the physiological adaptations youâre aiming for, and the three proven methods to achieve them:
âTraining in hot environments to closely mimic race conditionsâLayering to simulate heat when the weather wonât cooperateâPassive post-workout heat exposure like saunas or hot-water immersionThey explain how to choose the right method for your situationâor make the most of the method you have availableâand how to time it so benefits carry through to your race. Youâll also learn how long adaptations last, how to maintain them, and what to watch for in hydration, fueling, and recovery to avoid setbacks. Whether your target race is hot, cool, or somewhere in between, this episode gives you the tools to use heat training with precisionâand see results when it matters most.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding
05:49 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For Our Heat Training Episode
08:05 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training
12:42 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging
20:21 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances
23:28 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training
28:32 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations
31:12 Protocol by Protocol Analysis
32:53 Protocol 1: Training In A Hot Environment
46:06 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment
01:06:39 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps
01:10:48 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations
01:14:17 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations
01:19:35 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations
01:22:56 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training
01:27:20 Safety Considerations When Heat Training
Top 5 Takeaways
âHeat training is underutilized by most non-elite athletesâand can deliver benefits year-round, not just for hot races.âThree general methods to consider, some with higher efficacy than others but all can practically aid you: hot-environment training, layering to simulate heat, and passive heat exposure post-workout.âCore adaptations include increased plasma volume, earlier/more efficient sweating, electrolyte conservation, and lower core temperature.âAdaptations fade quicklyâoften within two weeks without exposureâbut can be restored in as little as two days.âSafety is critical: hydrate before and after, adjust fueling for greater glycogen use, and be aware of individual risks like anemia. -
Title IX changed the gameâbut it also came with a cost.
In this episode of Legwork, we sit down with Vanessa Fuchs, CEO of WeCOACH, to unpack why the number of women in coaching roles plummeted after the passage of Title IX, particularly in running sports like cross country and trackâand how WeCOACH is working to reverse that trend. From the impact of mentorship and representation to the systemic challenges of burnout, pay inequity, and gender bias, Vanessa brings both candor and clarity to one of the most important topics in sport today.
Whether you're a coach, athlete, parent, or simply someone who cares about the future of women's sports, this conversation is a call to action. Learn whatâs working, where weâre falling short, and why supporting women in coaching isnât just good policyâitâs essential for the health and future of the game.
Episode Description
What does it really mean to be a coach todayâespecially as a woman?
For many athletes, coaches are more than technical instructors. They are the emotional anchor, trusted adult, and all-hours problem-solver who helps athletes navigate academics, life transitions, and personal struggles. In this conversation, Vanessa Fuchs, CEO of WeCOACH, joins Matt and Molly to talk candidly about the immense load women coaches often carryâespecially in year-round sports like track and cross countryâand the lack of structural support that leads far too many to burnout or exit the profession altogether.
This episode also unpacks the ripple effects of Title IXâfrom declining numbers of women coaches to deeply ingrained hiring patterns and gender-based leadership expectations. Vanessa shares how WeCOACH is building a sustainable pipeline through programs like WeMENTOR, WeELEVATE, and WeASPIRE, all backed by research on where and why women are most likely to drop out of coaching careers.
We also discuss how womenâs sports are covered in the media, the subtle (and not-so-subtle) gender biases that shape how leadership styles are perceived, and how recent changes in NCAA policy could impact the future of Olympic and non-revenue sports. Through it all, Vanessa offers both data and personal insightâshowing what it will take to not just recruit more women into coaching, but actually keep them there.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to WeCoach and Vanessa Fuchs
05:34 The Impact of Title IX on Women in Coaching
08:29 The Importance of Female Role Models in Sports
10:56 Vanessa's Personal Experience With Mentorship
13:08 Barriers to Representation in Coaching
15:28 WeCoach's Mission, Growth, and the Triad Mentorship Model
22:00 Gender Bias in Coaching Styles
24:01 Media Representation of Women in Sports
27:16 Recruiting and Retaining Female Coaches Particularly In Running
35:57 Managing Burnout and Mental Health Against Persistent Barriers
41:23 Exploring NCAA Divisions and Coaching Opportunities
42:20 Engaging the Community in Advancing the WeCOACH Mission
47:21 Proud Accomplishments at WeCOACH
53:03 Hope and Progress in Women's Coaching and Impact of the Tucker Center Report Card
55:48 Impact of NCAA Changes on Women's Sports
59:40 The Growing Spotlight on Women's Sports
Top 5 Takeaways
Title IXâs unintended consequence: While it opened doors for female athletes, it also led to a sharp decline in women coaching women's teamsâdropping from 90% to around 41%.
Representation matters early: Girls drop out of sports at twice the rate of boys by age 14. Having female coaches helps girls stay engaged, confident, and supported.
Coaching is full-spectrum labor: Coaches are often the only consistent adult in a student-athleteâs lifeâmanaging not just performance, but emotional, academic, and life challenges.
Bias still shapes perception: Assertive leadership by women is often mischaracterized or penalized in ways that men arenât.
Change is happeningâbut needs help: Programs like WeMENTOR and WeASPIRE are helping reverse trends, but support from fans, schools, and peers is critical to sustain momentum.
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In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly go beyond the numbers to unpack what makes a training plan actually workâand why most of them miss the mark for the average runner. Built as a companion to our in-depth blog series on the Bakline site, this episode is a practical and honest guide to evaluating your plan, understanding the purpose behind workouts, and making modifications that are both smart and sustainable. Whether youâre a first-time half-marathoner or a seasoned marathoner chasing a PR, this conversation gives you the tools to stop blindly following plans and start training with intention.
We also introduce a four-step framework that anchors the episode: assess the course, evaluate your current fitness (and physiology), build the right mileage and long run structure, and then add intensity with purpose. Along the way, we tackle misunderstood concepts like the 80/20 rule, threshold training, and why âadvancedâ doesnât always mean âfaster.â From injury prevention to long run strategy, fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch muscle types to recovery timing, this episode is loaded with practical examples, real coaching insight, and lessons weâve learned the hard way. The full chapter list is belowâso feel free to jump around, but we think itâs worth the full listen.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Matt + Molly As Coaches and The Perspectives They Bring
05:35 Understanding Training Plans Generally and Their Importance
08:59 Who this episode is for? (Hint: almost anyone can get something out of this)
12:18 Understanding The Objective of The Workout, Not Just The Numbers
13:24 Why Most Off The Shelf Plans Let You Down, And Why The Ability To Evaluate Your Plan Is Critical To Being a Better Athlete
20:41 General Types of Modifications You Can Make Once You Have Evaluated Your Pln
29:32 Four Key Steps: Assessing the Course, Honestly Understanding Yourself, Determine Overall Mileage, and Add Intensity
31:03 Step 1: Assessing the Course
39:13 Step 2: Honestly Understanding Yourself and Assessing Your Current Fitness
49:24 Muscle Fiber Types, Determining How You Might Skew (Fast or Slow Twitch) and Considering That In Your Training Plan Construction
59:12 Step 3: Determining Overall Mileage and Your Long Run
01:01:39 Incorrect Workout Execution Could Lead to Perception of an Incorrect Plan (And Injury)
01:05:43 The 80/20 Rule. Why We Think It Is A Good Rule Of Thumb (Even Though We Don't Like Most Rules of Thumb) And Importance Of Easy Miles
01:10:21 Two Major Levers To Pull That Increase Volume: Frequency (More Days) and Duration (Longer Runs)
01:16:40 Long Run Considerations and Progression
01:17:41 Adding In The Long Run: How Many, How Long, And What % of The Week It Should Be
01:29:50 Step 4: Adding Intensity (The 20%), Key Terminology And Understanding Your Threshold Pace
01:35:29 Digging Into Types of Intensity To Consider In Your Plan
01:38:23 Coming Full Circle To That 80/20 Rule - Brining It All Together
01:42:22 Use Case #1: Illustrating How We Get To 20%
01:46:03 Use Case #2: Catching When an A Workout Does Not Make Sense
01:47:15 Summary And Key Takeaways
01:53:07 Looking Ahead To Part Two Of This Podcast: Specific Workouts
Top 4 Takeaways
1. Your Training Plan Wasnât Written for YouâSo Make It Yours
Most plans are generic. If you're not adjusting for your race, fitness, and schedule, you're following someone elseâs roadmap.
2. Understanding the Why Beats Hitting the Pace
Donât just follow numbersâknow the goal. When you understand what threshold feels like, you can adapt without derailing your training.
3. Itâs Not Just MileageâItâs the Ratio That Matters
The 80/20 rule works. Most of your weekly volume should be easy. Going too hard too oftenâeven on low mileageâcan set you back. We're ready to debate those who say otherwise.
4. Know How Youâre Wired (Fast Twitch? Slow Twitch?)
Your physiology matters. Fast-twitch athletes fatigue and recover differently. Smart plans account for those differences.
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00:00 Introduction to Fast Women and Alison Wade
05:34 The Evolution of Alison's Relationship with Running
07:52 The Impact of Community and Connection in Running
10:19 Exploring the Podcasting Journey
12:12 The Challenges and Opportunities Women Face In Coaching Especially In Collegiate Levels
21:35 The Growth of Women in Professional Coaching
27:26 Editorial Changes in the Fast Women Newsletter Required Over Time
28:39 Covering Trans Athlete In Running Media
33:22 Navigating Negative Feedback and Resilience
36:56 Balancing Passion and Workload and Managing Burnout
40:07 The Evolution of Fast Woman and Creating Engaging Editorial Content While Managing Social Media Dynamics
51:54 What is better? Being best, first, or different? Navigating How We Flex Our Style To The Times
57:02 The Balance of Making a Living, Finding Sponsors, and Journalistic Integrity
01:02:47 Positive Trends in Running and Coaching
01:11:56 The True Value of the Fast Women Newsletter
01:20:53 Closing Thoughts
Summary
In our first episode of Legwork, we sat down with Alison Wadeâfounder of the Fast Women newsletter and one of the most thoughtful voices in running media. We talked about how her relationship with running has shifted over time, especially as sheâs navigated personal setbacks while continuing to spotlight the sportâs most compelling stories. We explored her decision to stay rooted in journalism in an age of content, and what it takes to remain authentic when everyone else is chasing clicks. From her reflections on burnout and creative sustainability to the evolving media landscape, Alison offered a clear-eyed look at what it means to keep goingânot just when itâs rewarding, but when itâs hard.
We also dove deep into the realities of coaching and representation, particularly for women at the NCAA and professional levels. Alison shared how sheâs watched the industry change, why institutional structures still fail many female coaches, and how organizations like Wildwood Running and WeCoach are helping fill the gaps. Along the way, we touched on covering trans athletes with care, managing editorial choices under public scrutiny, and the challenge of staying principled while running an independent media platform. Through it all, Alison reminded us that being differentâand being honestâstill matters.
Our Top 5 Takeaways
1. Journalism Over Hype
Alisonâs not chasing clicksâsheâs doing the work. Fast Women stands out by delivering real journalism in a content-churn world.
2. Coaching Still Isnât Built for Women
From the NCAA to the pros, women are still underrepresented in coachingâand the system isnât set up to change that without serious reform.
3. First, Best, or Different? She Chose âDifferentâ
Instead of trying to be loud or fast, Alison built something thoughtful and distinctâand thatâs her superpower.
4. Algorithms Are Exhausting
The best content doesnât always âwin.â Social media rewards noise, but Alison stays focused on what matters, even if it doesnât always perform.
5. A Newsletter That Gets It
Fast Women is more than race results. Itâs curation with care, clarity, and a deep respect for readers who want more than just headlines.
Keywords
Fast Women, Alison Wade, running community, women in coaching, NCAA, podcasting, running media, female athletes, coaching challenges, sports journalism, running social media, content creation, running media, journalism, authenticity
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00:00 Questions We Ponder
00:51 What is podcast Legwork all about, and what types of conversations will we have?
01:26 What does every episode of Legwork aim to achieve?
02:03 When and where can you listen to Legwork?
Every runner has had questions they didn't know exactly how to how do I evaluate a training plan actually life? What's the smartest way to in the heat? How do I get myself mentally through that last part of a race? And what does a crew really need to do and know when supporting an ultra marathon runner?
We have those questions too! And as the owners of an apparel brand, as coaches and as members of the running community, we hear them all the time. How do you start and sustain a running club that doesn't just burn out after a season? What's the current state of women's running media and how do we make it better? And how can we support and hold on to more female coaches? Some of the most important work, whether it's the work we do as runners or as leaders that drive our sport, is not always visible.
Legwork is a podcast that celebrates the unseen efforts that keep the sport of running moving forward. We go behind the scenes with club leaders, race directors, coaches, and scientists to explore the why and how of the work that makes running what it is.
These are long form conversations that favor nuance over noise and intention over aesthetics. Because doing the work is messy and hard, but too often glossed over or made to seem easy. We're not here to deliver clickbait or sound bites. We're here to take our time, ask better questions and listen with curiosity.
In every episode, we promise to bring you something practical, insightful, inspiring. Something that helps you think and run further and feel more connected to the work that matters, no matter who's doing it or where it takes place.
We don't have sponsors, just us! And Bakline! It's where we've put in the work, building a brand, growing a community, coaching athletes and supporting great people and organizations. It's something we've built from scratch none of it has been easy. But that's exactly why we started this show, because the work that happens behind the scenes deserves more space, more credit and much more conversation.
Episodes drop every other Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.
So subscribe to Legwork because working hard doesn't always mean being seen, doing the Legwork without shortcuts is the forward.
