Episodi
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Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed.
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning.
Read: The State of the Pitch Report
Key Takeaways:The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch reportWhy agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly highThe impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputationWhy defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selectionHow AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scopingThe ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch processWhen marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomesThe role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrongHow marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signedBest-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch process
Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.
You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
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Episode Description:
Most marketers are keen to try the new shiny tactic, but what if the biggest B2B marketing opportunities come from understanding what doesn’t change?
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host, James Lawrence, sits down with Ty Heath, Global Thought Leadership Lead at LinkedIn and co-founder of the LinkedIn B2B Institute, to explore the marketing principles that continue to drive growth in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on LinkedIn’s research and the B2B Institute’s latest work, Ty unpacks why brand remains one of the most powerful growth drivers in B2B and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong signals.
Resources:
LinkedIn B2B InstituteWebinar: B2B Trends for the Contrarian MarketerWhitepaper: How B2B Brands Grow
Key Takeaways:Why the best marketers focus on what doesn't change rather than chasing every new trendThe contrarian marketer framework and how to find growth opportunities others overlookWhy buyers often create a shortlist before entering the market, and what that means for brand buildingThe 95/5 rule and why long-term brand investment remains critical for B2B growthThe "sea of sameness" problem and how brands can build stronger distinctivenessThe dangers of over-segmentation and the role of category entry points in reaching more buyersHidden buyers: who really influences B2B purchasing decisions beyond the obvious stakeholdersThe sales and marketing alignment gap and what businesses can do to close it
Guest:Tyrona Heath leads global thought leadership at LinkedIn Marketing and is the co-founder of LinkedIn’s B2B Institute. She is also a board member of the American Advertising Federation and a leading voice in B2B marketing effectiveness. Through LinkedIn’s research and partnerships with leading marketing thinkers and institutions, Ty helps marketers make clearer, evidence-based decisions about brand, memory, creativity and growth.
You can follow TY on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Episodi mancanti?
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Episode Description:
Is Google losing ground? How much traffic are tools like ChatGPT really driving? And what does visibility look like when answers increasingly happen inside AI platforms instead of on your website? In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack what’s actually happening inside AI search in Australia right now.
Drawing on Rocket’s latest GEO research across more than 150 Australian businesses and over one million data points, they explore how platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Perplexity are reshaping visibility, influence and digital measurement for brands, and what marketers should focus on next.
Watch our webinar: AI Search in Australia 2026 - How to Rank in ChatGPT & Google AI
Key Takeaways:Why Google search traffic is declining even while total search activity continues to growHow AI Overviews are impacting click-through rates for brands ranking in top Google positionsWhat Rocket’s research revealed about the overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibilityWhy ChatGPT influences purchasing decisions far beyond the traffic it directly sends to websitesThe growing importance of brand perception inside large language modelsWhy AI search optimisation requires a different approach to traditional SEOThe technical website issues preventing many brands from appearing in AI search resultsWhat types of content are performing best inside large language modelsWhy authority, citations and off-site brand signals matter more than ever in AI searchThe metrics marketers should actually be tracking to measure AI search performance
Guest:Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini.
You can follow Joe on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Episode Description:
As attribution becomes less reliable and marketing teams face more pressure to prove what drives growth, marketing mix modelling is becoming a popular way to understand the full commercial picture behind marketing performance.
In this episode, James Lawrence speaks with Henry Innis, CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, about how modern MMM can help marketers move beyond channel-level reporting and last-click attribution. Henry explains why media alone rarely tells the full story, how variables like pricing, promotions, competitor activity, economic shifts and brand equity influence results
Key Takeaways:Why Marketing Mix Modelling is becoming more important as attribution signals weakenHow MMM helps marketers understand growth beyond media performance aloneThe role of external factors like weather, CPI, fuel costs and competitor spend in performanceHow modern MMM can support faster, more confident decision-makingHow AI is reducing the effort required to structure data, run models and generate insightsWhy brand activity can contribute to both short-term sales and long-term memory effectsWhy siloed measurement often leads to siloed executionHow marketers can use MMM to think more like capital allocators than channel operators
Guest:Henry Innis is the CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, a marketing measurement company helping brands improve growth decisions through modern Marketing Mix Modelling. Mutinex’s Growth OS platform brings together media, pricing, promotions, brand and external market factors to help organisations understand what is really driving business performance. Henry offers a practical perspective on marketing effectiveness, attribution, AI and how measurement is evolving for modern growth teams.
You can follow Henry on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Episode Description:
What does a great agency relationship actually look like when pressure on marketing performance has never been higher? As budgets tighten and expectations rise, the difference between an average agency partnership and a high-performing one often comes down to how well both sides work together, not just what’s delivered.
In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Jordan Slover, founder of one of the fastest-growing agencies in the US, Neon Ambition, to unpack what it really takes to get the best out of your agency partners. Drawing on years of experience on both the agency and client side, they explore the habits, behaviours and expectations that separate strong, results-driven relationships from the ones that quietly fall apart.
Key Takeaways:Why agreeing on clear goals and KPIs upfront sets the foundation for better performanceHow feedback, both positive and constructive, shapes stronger agency output over timeWhat separates a true partnership from a transactional client-agency relationshipThe role of trust, and why over-directing your agency can limit resultsHow transparency from the client side leads to better decision-making and outcomesWhy consistent communication (without micromanaging) keeps things moving forwardThe importance of staying involved, even when you’ve outsourced executionHow small human factors (respect, empathy, rapport) impact performance more than you think
Guest:Jordan Slover is the founder of Neon Ambition, a US-based digital agency specialising in paid media, SEO and content marketing. With a background at Google and experience working across international markets, Jordan brings a practical, grounded perspective on how agencies and clients can work better together to drive meaningful results.
You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Episode Description:
How should Australian marketers adapt their approach to influencers and content creators as algorithmic changes, platform shifts and changing audience expectations reshape the landscape?
Host James Lawrence sits down with Trish McGee, Group Account Director at Impact Agency, to unpack the findings of Impact's 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, Australian research that goes straight to the source, surveying local content creators from micro to mega. From platform preferences and AI concerns to what good measurement looks like, this is a valuable listen for any marketer working in or considering the influencer space.
Key Takeaways:Why authenticity and long-term partnerships remain the foundation of effective influencer marketingHow creators are using AI, and why they're cautious about brands that rely on it too heavilyWhich platforms creators prefer for paid collaborations versus organic contentWhy giving creators genuine creative control leads to better outcomes, and why it's harder than it soundsHow measurement is evolving beyond reach, with saves, shares and quality comments becoming stronger indicators of successWhy white-listing is still meeting resistance from creatorsWhere Australia sits in the global influencer landscape, and why there's still significant room to growRead: The 2026 Influencer Pulse Check Report
Guest:Trish McGee is Group Account Director at Impact Agency, a full-service communications agency headquartered in Sydney. Trish leads client strategy and partnerships while overseeing Impact's Victorian presence. She was a key driver behind the 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, which surveys Australian content creators across all tiers on how they're navigating AI, changing algorithms, brand partnerships and the road ahead.
You can follow Trish on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Episode Description:
What would great marketing look like in Australia this year, especially when the rules are changing faster than most teams can keep up? In this episode, Rocket Agency’s top experts unpack the biggest shifts shaping digital marketing in 2026, from AI search and zero-click behaviour to rising costs, evolving content expectations and the growing importance of creative.
Host James Lawrence discusses marketers’ most pressing questions with Mariano Di Lascio (Head of Digital), Joe Alder (Head of SEO), Leesa Mealing (Digital Creative Lead) and David Lawrence (MD). What follows is a practical, honest look at what’s working, what’s not and where marketers should be focusing next.
Key Takeaways:Key trends shaping the Australian marketing landscape this yearIf zero-click search continues to grow, how should marketers measure SEO success differently?With AI-generated content flooding the internet, what does “good” content look like now?One AI use case that’s genuinely delivering ROI?With CPCs rising and competition intensifying, what are the first three levers you’d pull before increasing budget?If you’re leading marketing in 2026, what are you actually automating with AI, and what are you deliberately keeping human?LinkedIn for B2B: are most brands under-investing in creative, targeting, or measurement?Is the funnel broken or are marketers just running the same message at every stage?If you’re a lean team with limited budget, what’s the one channel and one capability you would prioritise this year?With Meta and Google controlling audience data, how much should brands invest in building owned channels right now?… and more pressing questions.
Guests:Mariano Di Lascio leads a team of outstanding marketers at Rocket Agency across paid search and paid social channels. Together with the team, he has won some outstanding awards for client campaigns, including Best Integrated Campaign at APAC Search Awards, Best Integration of Search into Cross-Channel Marketing at Search Engine Land Awards and Best Integrated Campaign at Semrush Awards.
Joe Alder is an award-winning SEO expert and has driven organic growth for global brands like Amazon, Coca-Cola, ANZ and Dulux through innovative strategies and data-driven insights. With over 20 industry award nominations, Joe is recognised as a leader in the field.
Leesa Mealing is the Digital Creative Lead at Rocket, bringing over 15 years of experience across creative direction, art direction and design. She blends big-picture thinking with hands-on execution, shaping concepts while staying close to the work. Her background spans everything from branding and packaging to UI/UX, content and campaign production, and she’s just as comfortable leading a shoot as she is refining the details on screen.
David Lawrence is the MD and Co-Founder of Rocket, an award-winning Australian full-service digital marketing agency. He is also the co-author of the Amazon #1 best-selling marketing book, Smarter Marketer. David has presented at several events, including Inbound Boston, Search Marketing Summit, Mumbrella360, CEO Institute, and various seminars and in-house sessions.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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How do you market an ‘unglamorous’ business where your category doesn’t sell itself? And what does it take to build a brand that people trust and remember when your offering is not something buyers get excited about?
Host James Lawrence sits down with Lisa Macqueen, CEO of Cleancorp, to unpack how she’s built one of Australia’s most respected service brands in one of the most commoditised categories there is - commercial cleaning. From personal branding and LinkedIn content that genuinely resonates, to building trust at scale through culture and customer experience, this conversation is a masterclass in doing the fundamentals exceptionally well.
Key Takeaways:How to build brand influence in a “boring” industry where buyers see the service as a grudge purchaseWhy founder-led LinkedIn content can become one of the most effective marketing channels in B2BWhat happens when you deliberately position your brand differently from the rest of your categoryWhy putting people at the centre of your marketing can strengthen both culture and client relationshipsThe role authenticity plays in building trust with prospects before a sales conversation even beginsHow modern buyers research suppliers before they ever contact a companyWhy curiosity and experimentation are becoming essential traits for marketers in a fast-changing landscape
Guest:Lisa Macqueen is the CEO of Cleancorp, a national commercial cleaning business servicing some of Australia’s most recognisable brands. With a background in sales and marketing across global hotel and resort businesses, Lisa brought a fundamentally different mindset into an industry long defined by commoditisation.
Under her leadership, Cleancorp has grown into a people-first, values-led organisation, earning B Corp certification, national recognition as one of Australia’s best places to work and a reputation for doing things differently. Lisa is also a LinkedIn Top Voice, using her personal platform to share candid insights on building meaningful brands in unexpected places.
You can follow Lisa on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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If most B2B buyers already know who they’re going to choose before they even speak to sales, what does that mean for your B2B marketing strategy?
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Stuart Jaffray, Managing Director of Green Hat, to unpack the latest findings from the APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report. With data from over 800 buyers across the region, the message is clear: the rhythm of B2B buying has changed under the current economic and technological conditions.
Read Green Hat’s report: The APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report 2025
Key Takeaways:What happens before a buyer speaks to sales, and why that’s where most decisions are actually madeWhy “demand generation” might really just be demand captureThe changes in buying group size and timing, and what’s driving itHow AI is accelerating first contact, even as buyers try to self-serveWhat a Millennial and Gen Z-led buying committee expects from your contentWhy ungating content is uncomfortable but increasingly necessaryThe one metric revenue teams should prioritise over MQLs
Guest:Stuart Jaffray is the Managing Director of Green Hat, a specialist B2B marketing agency operating across the APAC region. He’s spent his career working at the intersection of brand, demand and revenue, helping complex organisations align marketing and sales around how buying decisions actually get made. Previously he has steered strategy and growth at global advertising giant Starcom and shaped premium brand experiences at BMW Australia, bringing a deep understanding of customer behaviour, brand positioning and commercial impact.
With this blend of big-brand marketing and agency-led demand acceleration, Stuart brings a commercial and strategic lens to B2B growth.
You can follow Stuart on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with Alex Hayes, Founder of Clear Hayes, to unpack what it really means to market to marketers. From building Clear Hayes House at SXSW Sydney to launching award-winning branded content for global platforms, Alex shares hard-earned lessons from both sides of the fence; as a former editor of B&T and Mumbrella, and now as a global B2B communications specialist.
Key Takeaways:Why “don’t be boring” is more than a tagline in B2BAre we overcomplicating marketing when simplification might be the real edge?How brand and performance work together, and why future demand mattersWhat marketers need to do to reposition themselves inside the C-suiteWhy upskilling in fundamentals is becoming a non-negotiable
Guest:Alex Hayes is the Founder of Clear Hayes, a B2B communications agency specialising in marketing to marketers. Before launching the agency, Alex was Editor of both B&T and Mumbrella, where he covered some of the industry’s biggest stories and built a deep understanding of the people behind the platforms.
Today, Clear Hayes works with clients across Australia, New Zealand, the UK, the US and Europe, helping brands connect with marketers in ways that are engaging and strategically sharp. Alex brings a rare perspective shaped by journalism, global industry exposure and years spent helping marketing brands cut through in a crowded, often self-referential category.
You can follow Alex on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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When the pressure for short-term results keeps getting louder, how and why should you still emphasise creativity?
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Jules Hall, CEO and Founder of The Hallway, to unpack how creativity, data and commercial thinking need to work together if brands want sustainable growth. From navigating short-termism and AI hype to building credibility with CFOs and boards, Jules shares a grounded, practical view on what effective marketing leadership looks like today, and what it takes to earn the licence to do truly great creative work.
Watch Cardboard Cake - The Hallway’s Cannes Lion-winning ad
B Corp - Fat Cats
Key Takeaways:Why creativity isn’t at odds with commercial rigour, and why “trust me” no longer cuts itHow the best marketers link brand investment to real business outcomesWhat AI is actually useful for inside agencies (and where humans still win)Why short-term pressure is holding marketing back and how leaders can balance bothHow to “market marketing” internally and earn trust across the businessWhat the Webjet rebrand reveals about modern brand growth and measurementWhy relevance to culture still matters, even in a fragmented media landscape
Guest:Jules Hall is the CEO and Founder of The Hallway, one of Australia’s most awarded independent creative agencies. Since founding the agency in 2007, Jules has led work for brands including Google, Suncorp Bank, BINGE and Webjet, and helped The Hallway earn honours such as B&T Independent Agency of the Year and Campaign Asia Independent Agency of the Year. In 2024, Jules and his team won a Cannes Lion for design - a standout achievement for an Australian independent agency.
You can follow Jules on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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What makes people say "yes"? Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder James Lawrence sits down with Dr. Robert Cialdini, the godfather of influence and the world’s foremost authority on the psychology of persuasion, to talk about the timeless principles behind his work, his seventh principle of influence - Unity - and how AI, ethics and empathy are shaping persuasion in modern marketing.
Key Takeaways:Origin story: How Dr. Cialdini went “undercover” in multiple industries to discover the universal principles of influenceA walkthrough of the original six principles - Reciprocity, Scarcity, Authority, Consistency, Liking and Social ProofThe 7th principle - Unity: Why bonds formed by shared identity matter todayThe importance of ethics: Why marketers should use persuasion techniques truthfully and responsiblyInfluence vs cultural differences: How different regions (e.g., Australia, Asia, Scandinavia) prioritise different principles of influenceThe rise of AI: How marketers are using AI to apply Cialdini’s principlesThe science of “pre-suasion” and how setting context before your message boosts effectivenessReal-world examples of effective use of influence and persuasion from brands like Avis, L’Oreal and Best Buy
Guest:Dr. Robert Cialdini is a globally renowned psychologist and the bestselling author of Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Pre-Suasion, and Yes!. His groundbreaking research on why people say 'yes' has shaped the way professionals across marketing, sales, leadership and behavioral science approach persuasion.
He is often referred to as the godfather of influence, and his principles of influence drive ethical influence strategies today.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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In marketing, deadlines are relentless and expectations are high. It’s critical to manage stress and make clear-headed decisions under pressure. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, host James Lawrence chats with Dr. Jemma King - founder of BioPsychAnalytics and expert in stress, resilience and high performance.
Having worked with elite organisations like the Australian Olympic Swim Team, the Australian Defence Force, McKinsey and Atlassian, Dr.King shares science-backed insights on managing burnout, improving decision-making and optimising sleep for peak performance. Whether you're leading a team, juggling campaigns, or striving for balance in your personal life, this episode will equip you with practical strategies to navigate the pressures of marketing.
Key Takeaways:Dr. Jemma King’s journey - How she became a leading expert in stress research and high-performance psychology.Why marketers are under pressure And the need to manage stress for long-term successScience-backed strategies to reduce stress and prevent burnout – Practical techniques used by elite athletes, military personnel and corporate leaders to stay resilient The role of sleep in peak performance - How sleep quality directly impacts decision-making, creativity and overall health.Actionable tips to improve sleep for better health:
How to measure sleep quality and its effects on energy and performance.The hidden impact of alcohol on sleep cycles and cognitive function.Simple ways to eliminate sleep-disrupting distractions.How dim lighting before bedtime signals your brain to relax.The science behind a 40-degree hot bath as a sleep aid.How cutting back on sugar can significantly improve sleep quality.
Beyond sleep: The next most powerful factors in resilience - regular exercise, a balanced diet, meaningful relationships, fulfilling work and financial stability.Tactical ways to build a stress-resilient life by structuring your day, improving your work environment and developing a low-stress mindset.Decision-making under pressure – How to maintain a clear, strategic mindset in high-stakes situations.Emotional intelligence & AI – The evolving role of AI in helping professionals improve emotional intelligence and make better, more rational decisions.
Guest:Dr. Jemma King PhD is the founder of BioPsychAnalytics, a consultancy that helps companies, teams and individuals reduce stress, avoid burnout and make better decisions under pressure. She focuses on practical strategies to improve team performance and well-being in high-stress environments.
Jemma has worked with organisations like the Australian Olympic Swim Team, the Australian Defence Force, McKinsey and Atlassian, among others.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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In marketing, there exists a fine line between influencing decisions and crossing into manipulation. The difference? One builds trust while the other erodes it.
Host James Lawrence chats with Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and former CEO of creative behavioural science agency HardHat, about applying behavioural science principles like default bias and anchoring to your marketing, related ethical considerations and how to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation.
Key Takeaways:Dan’s journey - starting Hardhat and his interest in behavioural scienceIntroduction to behavioural science and it’s connection to marketingWhat are some common behavioural biases you see everyday?-Default bias
-Framing
-Anchoring
-Loss aversion
-Effort bias
Ethics in persuasion vs manipulationNavigating dark patternsHow context impacts perception and shapes biasesEssential behavioural science resources for marketers
Guest:Dan Monheit is a leader in creative behavioural science. In 2005, he founded Hardhat, a pioneering agency that worked with top brands like Mattel, Bega Dairy, the Victorian Government, Kogan, DocuSign and Afterpay. Under his direction, Hardhat became a go-to agency for brands looking to understand and influence consumer behaviour.
In October 2024, Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell, where Dan now serves as Chief CX Thinker, applying his expertise to elevate customer experiences through a blend of creativity and behavioural insights.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether.
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard.
Key Takeaways:Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable onesHow to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improvesThe simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the businessHow channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platformWhy creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystemHow to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growthWhen it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tactic
Guest:Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year.
You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters?
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead.
Key Takeaways:Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurementWhy traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectivenessHow attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buyingThe difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROIWhy CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convertWhy cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expectedThe role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurementThe future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven toolsAdditional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media
Guest:Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like for them.
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity.
Key Takeaways:Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks likeThe hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expectedHow in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back inWhy AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and moreThe three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with changeHow agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate
Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.
You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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Once thought of as a “traditional” channel, outdoor has once again become one of the most creative and technology-integrated mediums in modern marketing. As audiences move faster and attention gets harder to hold, out-of-home (OOH) continues to prove its staying power.
In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Josh Gurgiel, Head of Creative at POLY (oOh!media’s content and innovation hub), to unpack how Australia’s largest OOH network is evolving, from the rise of digital formats and AI-driven creative to why simplicity and emotion still sit at the heart of every great campaign.
Key Takeaways:Why OOH remains one of the most powerful full-funnel channels, and will continue to beThe creative rules that separate great outdoor work from visual clutterHow motion and real-time creative are reshaping outdoor storytellingWhy consistency and context, not constant reinvention, drive long-term brand resonanceHow brands like Specsavers, McDonald’s and Bankwest are redefining what ‘public space art’ can beWhy static and digital work best together, and what that means for campaign planning in 2026A look ahead: from immersive brand experiences to outdoor as cultural content
Guest:Josh Gurgiel is the Head of Creative at POLY, the content and creative innovation hub within oOh!media. With a career spanning creative direction, brand strategy and production, Josh leads the team shaping the next era of OOH innovation. His work with leading Australian and global brands continues to push the boundaries of how creativity, technology and data intersect in public space.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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What does it really mean to lead marketing in 2025? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with executive brand strategist Emma Logan to unpack the realities facing modern marketing leaders, from blurred job boundaries and rising stakeholder expectations to the personal toll of visibility and performance.
Emma shares why every senior marketer already has an “executive brand”, whether they’ve defined it or not, and how failing to own that narrative means letting others do it for you. Together, she and James explore what authentic leadership looks like in a post-pandemic world, how to navigate complexity without burning out, why connection and energy management are not just nice-to-haves and more.
Key Takeaways:Emma’s journey - The story behind The Emma Logan ProjectWhy every CMO needs an intentional executive brand and what happens if you don’t define itThe growing complexity of the marketing role: from AI and capability gaps to shifting cultural expectationsHow trust, transparency and delivery underpin influence at the C-suite and board levelNetworking as a leadership superpower: the ROI of connection and communityWhy energy, recovery and self-awareness are becoming critical to sustainable leadership
Guest:Emma Logan has spent more than 15 years working across marketing and media in New Zealand, London and Australia, spanning client-side, agency, publisher and not-for-profit roles. She’s partnered with numerous leading brands and marketing talent, bringing a rare 360-degree perspective to the challenges facing today’s leaders.
Through The Emma Logan Project, she now runs a “marketer-focused consultancy,” helping CMOs and senior marketing leaders define who they are and how to amplify their impact across their teams and the wider industry.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise.
In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you’re in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success.
Key Takeaways:Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from itHow specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reachWhat three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be soldWhy selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversationsHow AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised playersWhat in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners.
Guest:Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast.
Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/
Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm
About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.
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