Episodes
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Hi, I’m Deidre! I’m a poet, a theologian in training, an editor, and author of a forthcoming book on the spiritual discipline of delight. Here you’ll find semi-regular essays, poems, and podcast interviews with people who inspire me.
I also offer a bi-weekly Office Hour with an Editor for paid subscribers of The Second Cup, and a Nonfiction Book Proposal Cohort to give you the tangible support you need to actually pitch and publish a book (now open to new members!).
I’m glad you’re here. I hope you’ll subscribe and stick around.
A couple of weeks ago, I wrote this Note:
It just struck me that every 24 hours, the day dies, and every morning, God resurrects it again.
Life is constantly erupting from the darkness.
It seems that all I can think about these days is resurrection, the tenacity of life even in the face of inevitable death. The way that death always comes, but life always follows.
God demonstrates this to us in ways we can understand. In the new rising sun. In the daffodils pushing through dirty snow after winter. In his son, rising from the dead.
This conversation with Jennifer Dukes Lee only made me more obsessed with the idea that ours is the God of reinvention, of newness and possibility and surprises. Of life, against all odds.
We talk about nighttime routines and the joys of breakfast and biphasic sleeping and fresh starts and soul-keeping rituals. It is a delicious and fun conversation, and I hope that now, standing on the edge of summertime, it will give you a sense that resurrection is possible and that God is doing something new, sure as the sun rises every new morning.
Jennifer Dukes Lee is a bestselling author, speaker, and morning evangelist from Iowa. She is the author of several books, including Growing Slow, It’s All Under Control, and Stuff I’d Only Tell God. Follow Jennifer on social media @JenniferDukesLee, and order her newest book, How To Love Your Morning, here.
NOW ACCEPTING NEW MEMBERS FOR THE NEXT NONFICTION BOOK PROPOSAL COHORT:
The Nonfiction Book Proposal Cohort is an 8-week collaborative course that teaches members the ins and outs of:
* Which components are required for a nonfiction book proposal, and how to make each of them strong and compelling
* How to get the attention of agents and publishers, including how to write queries, reliable strategies for networking, and intentional platform-building
* Creating a proposal that supports the actual book-writing process down the road
This course uses a flipped classroom approach, which means that members will receive weekly video lessons and assignments through Google Classroom that will be completed outside of class time. During our weekly Zoom meetings, we will use the time to collaborate on each component, generate writing, ask plenty of questions, and interview special guests.
At the end of the course, the goal is that all students who have completed the assignments will have their entire book proposal completed and ready to pitch for traditional publishing.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
For those who are celebrating this week—Happy Thanksgiving!
This conversation is all about books, and happiness, and theology, and juicy tidbits about writing & research. It felt like the perfect companion for your comings and goings.
Wish I could eat a slice of pumpkin pie with you!
If you’re just arriving here, stick around!
Does God actually want us to be happy?
That’s what we talk about in this episode. Griffin Gooch has been studying the theology of happiness for years, and is currently working on a book on the topic.
And since I’m working on a book about the discipline of delight, how could I not invite him to come nerd out with me over this?
In this conversation, we talk about…
* the task of the theologian
* why great citations are a love language
* how to decide what books to read next
* Griffin’s top five favorite novels (plus mine!)
* what the modern Church has forgotten about happiness, and what the early Christians knew
* how rituals can contribute to our overall happiness
Listen. Enjoy. Restack. Share with a friend! And if you’re feeling extra generous, would you leave a review of the The Second Cup Show wherever you listen? That really, really helps get the word out.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
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“Apathy is informative. And when we get to that point, we have to decide: Are we going to fight to bring that piece of us back that is worth reviving?”
That’s what Lindsay Swoboda asks in this interview and in her book, Holding On and Letting Go: A Life in Motion, a memoir about the two decades of military life she experienced alongside her family and husband, a Marine.
And what I loved about this memoir—what made it resonate so deeply, even though I have no personal frame of reference for life in the service—is that it required me to look inward, to see my own story, to ask the same question that Lindsay challenged herself throughout:
When life is uncomfortable and unexpected, who will I choose to be?
In this episode, we talk about:
* How to greet discomfort with curiosity rather than fear
* The power of rituals to keep us grounded in times of flux
* Figuring out what we do have a say in, even when some of life’s circumstances are beyond our control
* Finding the courage to surrender to the moment even when it is not as we thought it would be
* Discovering beauty even in our most stripped-back seasons
This conversation was heartening and also challenging—but in the best, most wonderful way.
* Subscribe to Lindsay’s publication, The Eleven O’Clock Number, here on Substack: Lindsay Swoboda
* Follow Lindsay on Instagram: @lindsay.swo
* And most importantly, find her book here & order a copy for yourself and a copy for a friend: Holding On and Letting Go: A Life in Motion
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Make sure to leave a review after you listen for a chance to win some Poetry is for Rebels apparel! The winner of last episode’s podcast review was a dear listener by the name of Jsteele9! If that’s you—send me a message today and I’ll send YOU a new piece of Poetry is for Rebels swag.
Hi, I’m Deidre, the author & host behind The Second Cup. Each week, you can expect one podcast or post around theology, poetry, and the re-enchantment of life. Come on in!
Come listen in as poet and theologian Drew Jackson answers my question, “WHY POETRY?”
Drew is the author of God Speaks Through Wombs and Touch the Earth, which are collections of poetic dialogue with the Gospel of Luke. On this episode, you can expect to hear:
* our hot takes on rural versus city living—and the magic (and hassles) of each
* Drew’s thoughtful parallels between the social contexts of Luke and our modern-day world, giving voice to those who know what life is like “on the underside of Empire”
* wise words from Rilke, Miles Davis, and more
* Drew performing one of his new, not-yet-published poems from his latest collection in progress (plus one of my personal
requests from God Speaks Through Wombs!)
* a lively dialogue on the importance of “unproductive,” undervalued things (and people!) in our society
* something that inspires you to go pick up (or write!) a poetry collection
Find more about Drew here:
* Order God Speaks Through Wombs and Touch the Earth
* Follow him on Instagram
* Check out his website
Know someone who would LOVE this episode? Go ahead, share it!
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Hold the phone! Have you left a review yet?
Everyone who leaves a review for The Second Cup Show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts gets entered to win some Poetry is for Rebels swag of your choice, so make sure you take a moment to do that and then let me know below in the comments that you have so I don’t miss it.
The winner for last episode’s reviews was Becca Shaw!
Love theology, poetry, and the daily practice of delight? Subscribe to The Second Cup for a weekly essay, poem, or podcast.
Emily Curzon is a writer, a podcaster, a therapist, and friend. She practices the monthly act of remembrance over at her gorgeous publication, We Have This Hope.
I adore Emily. You will too. I told her at the end of this conversation that I felt like we’d just had our own little therapy session—except that we also covered important topics like the art of the “napuccino” and the joys of walking with a weighted vest.
But truly—you don’t want to miss what Emily has to say about practicing remembrance as a spiritual discipline. She talks about:
* How our bodies and brains are wired to remember (Have you read The Body Keeps the Score? A little more on that in this episode.)
* The effect that remembrance has on our mental health
* Practical tips (yes, even for those of us who don’t have time) for incorporating this practice into our lives
Plus, we discuss:
* The “novelty effect” and how to slow down time
* Practicing the important work of FUN
* What you can tell about a person by their coffee order
Gosh, this was a fun one. So come give it a listen, smile all the way through, and afterwards—maybe even give the art of remembrance a try.
And please, share far and wide!
With love,
Deidre
P.S. If you wanted to tune in to the interview Emily & I did over on HER podcast, We Have This Hope, you can listen to that here:
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Welcome to The Second Cup Show! Today, we talk with therapists (and best friends!) Blake Roberts, LMFT and Jamie Haigh, LPC-MHSP of Three Percent Co., a mental health community and podcast that helps men turn emotional walls into deeper relationships.
Send this to a friend who would love it!
Besides bringing their fascinating insights from their professional lives as therapists, Blake and Jamie offer incredible depth and texture to the conversation around creativity as artists in their own rights.
Listen in as we talk about:
* creativity as the act of communicating with God
* following artistic interests for the sheer delight of it
* learning to tell the difference between creating from a place of dysregulation versus a place of security
* creative advice from some of our all-time favorite writers and artists
(Image Pilgrimage w/ Scott Erickson had so many shoutouts, he might as well have been on the show!)
* the benefits of creating with others
* connecting with our inner child
* learning to treat our inner muse like we would another person
Connect with Blake & Jamie on their website and follow them on IG @therapy.with.blake and @jameswilliammusic. And make sure to subscribe to Three Percent Co. before you leave!
Make sure to listen & leave a review and—if you know someone else who would LOVE this—send it along, won’t you?
Sending love,
Deidre
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Everybody who leaves a review of The Second Cup Show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts gets entered to win some Poetry is for Rebels swag of your choice, so make sure you take a moment to do that and then let me know below in the comments that you have. The winner for last episode’s reviews was Janet S Abadir!
Welcome to The Second Cup Show! Today, we talk with Chris Wheeler of The Tethered Letters, and the best way I can describe this conversation is a feast for the spirit.
“We want our hands in the earth.
We want our feet on the ground.
We want to be present here.”
Chris Wheeler
Every turn of our conversation felt like tearing off a hunk of sourdough bread and dipping it in soup. We chewed thoughtfully—and I savored it entirely. I woke up the next day stilling feeling full, and nourished. I feel pretty confident suggesting that you will, too.
Chris is one of those people who doesn’t just talk about ideas. He lives them. In a world where everyone online seems to have expert advice for living better lives, Chris is actually living his best life—quietly, unhurriedly, and mostly offline.
[But we can’t say nothing good ever came out of the digital world, because if it wasn’t for Tabitha McDuffee and her gracious introduction, I would never have met Chris.]
He shares all about:
* his intentional detachment from devices & the digital world
* how gardening—like any good spiritual practice—tethers us to the present
* the discontent of striving and learning to embody the realities of incremental change and slow growth
* creating an environment that enables us to reclaim the joy of being attentive all over again.
Make sure to listen & leave a review and—if you know someone else who would LOVE this—send it along, won’t you?
Sending love,
Deidre
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Everybody who leaves a review of The Second Cup Show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts gets entered to win some Poetry is for Rebels swag of your choice, so make sure you take 1 minute to do that and then let me know below in the comments that you have. The winner for last episode’s reviews was Kimberly Kralovic!
Welcome to The Second Cup Show! Today, we talk with author & spoken word poet, Tanner Olson. And oh boy. I think you’re going to love it.
How do I put this? Talking with Tanner is like…eating the center of a cinnamon roll at a diner while drinking your morning coffee. Comforting. Comfortable. Real. Fun. Real fun.
In fact, we talk about Tanner’s love for cinnamon rolls, along with a lot of other things you’ll want to listen in on, like:
* The backstory behind his new children’s book, All the Things I Say to God: Learning to Pray Anytime, Anywhere (you should preorder that, by the way)
* Talking with God—and hearing back from him
* What to do in seasons of life that feel decidedly not okay
* Tanner reading his poem, STAY (which is reason enough to STAY and listen to the whole episode)
Make sure to listen & leave a review and—if you know someone else who would LOVE this—send it along, won’t you?
Sending love,
Deidre
P.S. If you enjoyed our conversation around talking with God, have you read my most recent essay, How to Hear From God yet? I do my best to offer a practical guide for hearing from God, even if you don’t feel like a supernatural, super-spiritual superpower. Check it out!
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Welcome back to The Second Cup Show! Today, we kick off Season 02 Episode 01 with none other than my own literary agent, the wonderful Kathy Green.
Kathy is an author, speaker, and literary agent, and in this episode, she drops some serious wisdom on how to wait well (something that I find to be devastatingly hard).
We also discuss the book publishing world, learning to listen for God, and the importance of doing things just for fun.
Make sure to listen & leave a review and—if you know someone else who would LOVE this—send it along, won’t you?
Sending love,
Deidre
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Jessica is a straight-talking writer, pastor, runner (and American Ninja Warrior, whaaaat?!), and mom to five: two adopted, two autistic, and one typical teen boy.
She is a champion for foster care and adoption. She is also a champion for moms discovering their God-given purpose and calling—within AND beyond their mothering.
I have to warn you: you’ve got to listen to this one at your own risk. You will likely feel challenged & convicted to go do whatever it is that you’ve been setting aside for years now, because it hasn’t been the right time.
Do you know someone who would be encouraged by this episode? Please share it with them!
In this episode, we talk about:
* That time Jessica planned a 110-mile run (in 1 DAY) to raise awareness for foster care & adoption
* God’s original intent for men & women & marriage & calling, as evidenced by creation
* P.S. you might be surprised what the Hebrew translation for “helpmate” is when God created woman in Genesis
* Parenting not as the end goal, but as training wheels for laying down our lives for others throughout our whole lives
* Doing what we can with what we have, and what happens when God’s exponential nature is applied to it.
* Mom guilt—and how to get free of it
Connect with Jessica:
* Get her book, Unlimited Motherhood
* Listen to her podcast, The Full Spectrum Parent: A Faith-Based Autism Parenting Podcast
* Find out more about her life & the All 4 One Run she cofounded with her husband on her website
* On Instagram, @jessicahurlbut
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Join Matthew Nash , Sarah Steele, Kristi Clark, Kim D. Butler, Mary Folkerts and me for Part II of this conversation where we each share an original, never-before-shared poem and the story behind its conception. Consider this your backstage pass to being part of a community of poets. And if you missed Part I, listen to it below!
I try not to pick favorites, but…
…how can I not be over-the-moon excited to share the rest of this amazing conversation with you?
If you listened to the first part of this conversation in Episode 10, then you know we teased you BIG time by talking about our muses and the evolution of our poetic selves—but left the actual sharing of poetry for THIS EPISODE.
AND THESE POEMS ARE STUNNERS. You NEED them in your life.
So here’s the rest of the conversation, friends. Join our proverbial circle and come get cozy with:
…the poems.
…the stories.
…and the amazing people behind them.
Which poem resonated most with you? Show a little love in the comments below!
The kindest this you could possibly do is to engage with this post. Share it with someone who would love it, comment or click that little heart, and subscribe! Thanks for being here.
Connect with the poets:
* Matthew Nash: On Insta @matthewnash1, on his website for Kardia Community
* Sarah Steele: Buy her book, An Ocean Without
* Kristi Clark: On Insta @pine_and_tide
* Kim Butler: On Insta @kim.d.butler, on her website The Whiteboard Room
* Mary Folkerts: On Insta @maryfolkerts, on her website
* Deidre Braley: On Insta @deidressecondcup, buy her book, The Shape I Take
P.S. Be sure to subscribe to The Second Cup Show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don’t miss our next episode with Jessica Hurlbut, author of Unlimited Motherhood
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
GUYS. It’s National Poetry Month.
Back when I was an elementary school teacher, April was my favorite month because it was a multi-week opportunity to educate kids on the power of poetry and to help them realize that
a.) poetry is for the people
b.) poetry is for rebels
And we did it UP. The kids would work all month on original poetry, and then we’d invite all their families in for Poetry Cafe Night, where we’d pour hot cocoa and pretend we were beatniks. The kids would perform their poetry while we beamed with pride.
Well, being a part of The Second Cup Poetry Jam & Slam community kind of feels like that, except we mostly drink caffeine instead of cocoa.
This episode has major acoustic story hour vibes.
Today, five of my favorite poet friends from our Jam & Slams join The Second Cup Show to talk all things poetry, like:
* Our personal journeys to becoming poets
* How our ideas of poetry are evolving
* Who our muses would be like if they were people
Join Matthew Nash , Sarah Steele, Kristi Clark , Kim D. Butler , Mary Folkerts and me for Part 1 of this conversation that honors the art of poetry and the value of sharing it with others. Consider this your backstage pass to being part of a community of poets.
The kindest this you could possibly do is to engage with this post. Share it with someone who would love it, comment or click that little heart, and subscribe! Thanks for being here.
P.S. Be sure to subscribe to The Second Cup Show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don’t miss PART 2 of this episode when it airs next week. Every poet guest will share an original poem, and you won’t want to miss a single one of those stunners.
Connect with the Poets
* Matthew Nash: On Insta @matthewnash1, on his website for Kardia Community
* Sarah Steele: Buy her book, An Ocean Without
* Kristi Clark: On Insta @pine_and_tide
* Kim Butler: On Insta @kim.d.butler, on her website The Whiteboard Room
* Mary Folkerts: On Insta @maryfolkerts, on her website
* Deidre Braley: On Insta @deidressecondcup, buy her book, The Shape I Take
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Share this with a mom who needs to hear it!
God asks me to be faithful with what he’s given me—NOT what he’s given someone else.
Lara d’Entremont
My stance on talking about motherhood is that it should never, never be sugar-coated. When we aren’t honest about the ways our humanness intertwines with parenting, we do a disservice to mothers everywhere.
That’s why I want you to listen to this conversation with Lara d’Entremont. She wrote the book A Mother Held: Essays on Motherhood and Anxiety and she holds nothing back. Lara is super honest and super courageous as she talks about her personal experiences with pregnancy loss, anxiety and depression, difficulties with breastfeeding, obsessive compulsions, and so much more. What I love best is that she doesn’t offer pat answers or false positivity; no, she is a woman who has worked through these struggles with fear and trembling and has come out on the other side, ready to help us through it, too.
In this interview, we talk about:
* What The Velveteen Rabbit can teach us about postpartum body image
* The myth of self-sufficiency
* Learning to stop “shoulding” ourselves
* Why it’s okay to set the bar reeeeeeaalllllly low when it comes to hospitality
* Our rational and irrational fears as parents (and how to handle them as they come)
What resonated most with you? Let us know in the comments below!
Show Notes
Connect with Lara on her website
Connect with Lara on Instagram @lara_dentremont
Buy A Mother Held on Calla Press Publishing
Connect with Deidre on Instagram @deidressecondcup
Buy The Shape I Take on Bottlecap Press (Deidre’s poetry collection on motherhood)
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
Do you remember being a kid and playing outside in the cold?
You’re vaguely aware that your hands are raw and your nose is dripping, but you’ve gotten used to it and so you keep playing, until someone finally calls you in. It’s not until you kick off your boots and feel the warmth of the kitchen that you realize just how cold you really were.
Well, this episode is kind of like that—coming inside after playing out in the cold for a long time.
I don’t know about you, but when it comes to living & loving & creating & dreaming in this big ‘ole world, sometimes I feel like I’m out there playing in the cold. I find myself asking questions like, “Does my day-to-day even matter?” and “Am I doing enough with my life?”
Sometimes I panic and think, “NO! IT DOES NOT, AND I AM NOT!” Then I try to strong-arm my dreams into existence. I try to prove my worth.
It’s exhausting out there. And cold.
But in today’s conversation, it feels like Paige is standing at the doorway of the warm kitchen, saying, “Come in! You’ve been out there too long.”
And so I hope you will.
We talk everything from redefining the constructs of success to the woes of self-promotion.
Paige shares about her 9-year journey to a deal for her book, “He Knows Your Name,” and what she learned after meeting Miss India and some of the country’s most impoverished women—in the same day.
We discuss whether God looks at Instagram #s and how we can reframe the way we see rejection.
And, the part I love best: Paige shares a very practical strategy for feeling (not just knowing about) Jesus’ love for yourself.
So come on in. If you’ve been playing in the cold for a while, too, this one’s for you.
Oh, a p.s.?
I am giving away a copy of He Knows Your Name: How 7 Nameless Women of the Bible Reveal Christ’s Love For You.
Do you want to maybe win it? Just comment “YES” below and I’ll put your name in a hat! I’ll announce the winner in next week’s letter!
SHOW NOTES
Paige’s website
Connect with Paige on Instagram
Connect with Deidre on Instagram
Get a copy of Paige’s book, “He Knows Your Name: How 7 Nameless Women of the Bible Reveal Christ’s Love For You.”
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
I needed a valid excuse to shamelessly reach out to all the people I think are really cool and ask them all my nosy questions. Creating a show seemed like the perfect solution.
So here it is.
You’re the first to see this.
If you’ve been around here for at least 10 minutes, then you know that there’s little I’d rather talk about than really great books. Especially the ones that can challenge us, encourage us, and help us experience God in new ways.
That’s why I am so excited to welcome Walter Shaw as the very first guest onto the show today.
I first discovered Walter on his Instagram account, @wtsreads, and became an instant follower and fan when I realized that he was sharing books on theology that I had never encountered before. He encourages his people to read more, shares key takeaways from the books he’s currently reading, and shares practical tips on prayer and other spiritual disciplines. He also has a YouTube channel that serves as a book vlog.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
“There is some action that we need to take. It’s not just putting it down, but then—what are you gonna do with that?”
Jennifer Dukes Lee, on journaling
Jennifer Dukes Lee talks about “Stuff I’d Only Tell God” on The Second Cup Show—and no question is off the table
No, seriously. Our conversation took us through some of our favorite questions from her new guided journal, like:
* What is your 6-word memoir?
* If you had a walk-up song, what would it be?
* What’s your dream last meal?
(Hint, Jennifer’s is carb-o-licious, and I’m here for it.)
* Who do you need to forgive? And, from whom do you need to ask forgiveness?
Jennifer shares ideas for finding the right journal for YOU (commonplacing journal, here I come!), talks about how journaling leads to action, which leads to real life change, and gives tips for becoming more generous conversationalists.
Find Jennifer and her books
on Instagram: @jenniferdukeslee and @stuffidonlytellgod
on Facebook: Jennifer Dukes Lee
on her website: https://jenniferdukeslee.com/
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
"𝐅𝐮𝐧 𝐧𝐞𝐞𝐝𝐬 𝐫𝐞𝐛𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠—𝐞𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐖𝐞𝐬𝐭." - 𝐌𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐑𝐮𝐜𝐤𝐞𝐫, 𝐏𝐡𝐃, Author of The Fun Habit
Thank you for listening to The Second Cup! This post is free, so feel FREE to share it with someone who might love a little more fun in their life, too!
Oh boy. You KNOW I've been excited to talk all things fun with Mike Rucker, PhD, ever since I picked up a copy of his book The Fun Habit and he gave me permission to schedule fun into my daily grind [life-changing!]. And this interview did. not. disappoint.
So what did we talk about? Everything and anything remotely related to fun.
🤓 Did I nerd out and quote sections of his book back to him and also publicly admit that playing with my kids is sometimes AGONIZING for me? Sure did.
😬 Did we talk about why scrolling the socials and drinking a second glass of wine cannot be defined as actual fun? Yes, we went there, too.
𝐎𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐤𝐞𝐲 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐚𝐰𝐚𝐲𝐬:
👉🏼 We should probably all stop answering our emails on the toilet
👉🏼 You don't have to be a Swiftie to be a fun person
👉🏼 Coolio does cooking videos on YouTube and apparently they're awesome
👉🏼 It might be time to toss your FitBit or Apple Watch (if you're anything like me)
My hope for you is that you’ll walk away from this conversation feeling that you have permission — the prerogative, even — to have a little fun today, too.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thesecondcup.substack.com/subscribe -
A couple weeks ago I wrote Prayer is Bloody Hard, and almost instantly, Jess Leigh Hanna was in my messages asking if she could come onto the show and talk about prayer.
Obviously, the answer was a resounding YES. Jess has been a student of prayer for years, and she shares regular and helpful content about that on her Instagram. Not only that, but she is a beloved contributor for The Truly Co. Magazine and, as the Editorial Content Director for Truly, I can always count on Jess to say something profound and thought-provoking.
So we came together to talk about prayer, and I’d like to point out RIGHT now that if you have preconceived notions that prayer is gentle and soft and timid and hum drum, this is the episode for you.
We talk all about:
* Misunderstandings we have about prayer—and busting them
* Creative ways God speaks to us, and learning to listen to him
* The story of Jacob wrestling with God, and how we can (and should) do the same
* How our hard & negative feelings (anger, doubt, etc) are NOT sins, and how God wants to hear about them
* The silver lining of our brokenness
If you have a friend who would love this podcast, please share!
Prayer, I am beginning to believe, is absolutely essential for living our lives to the fullest. And the concept of wrestling with God until we can walk out of that match with increased peace and clarity? I’ve been practicing and it’s changing me. It’s changing my life.
Listen. Try. Let me know how your wrestling is going. And, if you need backup in some area of your life, email me and I’ll wrestle for you, too.
With a lot of love,
D
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Kimberly Phinney is a night owl. I, on the other hand, prefer to nestle down for the night when most six-year-olds go to bed. When she asked if we could record this podcast at 8:30 P.M., I put on my big-girl pants (and by that I mean my comfy pants), threw back a shot of espresso, and hoped I could keep my eyes open.
I’m happy to report that I had NO trouble staying awake for this conversation. We talked about all of our favorite things, dreamed of being neighbors, and made theoretical plans to come back together for Part II, ASAP.
Kimberly is a poet, professor, endometriosis survivor, and the founder of The Way Back to Ourselves literary journal and community. Her debut poetry book, Of Wings and Dirt, will be released in April, and she just launched a new course on growing your writing life. In short—she’s the kind of person you want to stay up and talk with all night.
We talked:
* Kimberly’s journey with endometriosis and infertility & the way God’s been showing up and redeeming her story
* A Paul & Ananias metaphor that I still can’t stop thinking about
* The Christian celebrity conflict…and possible alternatives
* How on earth to handle social media, self-promotion, and all those other fine lines creatives walk
* Oh, and poetry. LOTS of poetry, including:
* The inside scoop on Kimberly’s new poetry book & Deidre’s new chapbook
* Our processes for writing poetry
* An exclusive reading of some favorite, original poems by Kimberly & Deidre
So buckle up—this is going to be a fun one.
Links you’ll want:
* The Way Back To Ourselves literary journal:
https://www.thewayback2ourselves.com/journal
* Grow Your Writing Life Course:
https://www.thewayback2ourselves.com/store/p/how-to-grow-your-writing-life-course-by-kimberly-phinney
* Kimberly’s Substack, My Way Back
https://substack.com/@thewaybacktoourselves
* Connect with Kimberly on Instagram @thewaybacktoourselves
* Deidre’s Chapbook, The Shape I Take:
https://bottlecap.press/products/shape?keyword=shape%20
* Connect with Deidre on Instagram @deidressecondcup
* The Second Cup website:
https://www.thesecondcup.org/
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I’m recognizing that my intense longings for peace and joy cannot be satisfied by any amount of festivity or holiday cheer. That would be like trying to patch up a bullet hole with a butterfly stitch. This longing is so deep and wide that all the world’s eggnog couldn’t fill it.
Deidre Braley
I don’t know what year it was when my child-like wonder rubbed off and I realized—much to my horror—that the Christmas spirit was elusive as some rare bird.
It probably started fading circa age 8, when I discovered that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny weren’t real. “But, but…what about the Tooth Fairy?” I remember asking, clinging desperately to that last magical being even though I knew she was about to be snuffed, too. My mother and sister had looked at each other, then shaken their heads in somber unison. The end of an era.
For a long time, I managed to be jolly enough. Sure, we had to pretend that it was okay that Santa wasn’t real (it wasn’t), but there were plenty of other real Christmas traditions I could cling to. My mother’s marshmallow roll, for example. And Silver Bells and Elf and the lovely anticipation of opening gifts and eating peanut butter balls for breakfast. Those things seemed to work—mostly.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve turned to other comforts of the season. Glitz! Glamour! Champagne! Dinner parties! Cookies upon cookies upon cookies! Imagining Christmas through my children’s eyes!
But I’ve reached the Christmas where those things aren’t working anymore. Not to say that I’m not enjoying them, but rather that I’m recognizing that my intense longings for peace and joy cannot be satisfied by any amount of festivity or holiday cheer. That would be like trying to patch up a bullet hole with a butterfly stitch. This longing is so deep and wide that all the world’s eggnog couldn’t fill it.
I invited Matthew Nash on the show to talk about this longing and so much more. A spiritual director and founder of the Kardia Community, speaking with Matthew about caring for our souls felt like one giant, reassuring hug.
We talked:
✨ about sehnsucht, a German word that perfectly sums up so much of what I’m feeling this Christmas
✨how to engage community and why it matters for all of us, even if you’re an introvert who prefers to spend the season reading books in twinkly-lit nooks
✨specific spiritual practices for intentional soul care this Advent season, including the Prayer of Examen and lectio and/or visio divinia
✨the issue of finding time and the Narnia-like magic of stepping into the divine
✨the difference between transactional and transformational leaders (and humans)
So if you’re reaching desperately for the Christmas spirit and it feels like an elusive bird to you too, then listen to this interview and be encouraged. As Matthew says:
“Sitting in the tension and the mystery is exactly where we need to be.”
Merry Christmas, friends. 🎄
Watch here:
Links from the Show:
* Matthew’s Substack Community
* Kardia Community
* Matthew on Instagram, Kardia on Instagram
* Book: Honest Advent by Scott Erickson
* Book: Making Room for Advent by Bette Dickinson
* The Way Back to Ourselves Community
* Guidance for Spiritual Practices (Prayer of Examen, lectio divina, breath prayers), below:
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