Episodes
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We Dissent co-host Rebecca Markert was recently featured on "In Progress," a part of the Progress Texas podcast network. Please enjoy this episode of In Progress while you wait for our next episode!
From Dan Patrick's declaration that the separation of church and state is dead, to Texas Republicans kicking Muslims out of their state convention in Houston, to the Ten Commandments and bible stories permeating our public schools, the takeover by Christian Nationalism of Republican politics is no longer a theory - it's real, and it's here, right now. How to resist is now one of the primary questions for progressive people - and we've brought on Rebecca Markert to discuss that question. She's the Vice President and Legal Director of Americans United For Separation of Church and State, a national organization dedicated solely to the protection of the foundational American principles of freedom of religion - and freedom from religion.
Learn more about Progress Texas and how you can support their ongoing work at progresstexas.org
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca, Liz, and Alison speak with Rachel Levinson-Waldman from the Brennan Center for Justice about the Trump administration and current Congress weaponizing the government to attack nonprofits and punish speech and viewpoints they don't like. They explore how executive orders and anti-terrorism statutes are being abused to investigate, defund, and intimidate civil society, and how this strategy is essential to the broader project to transform America from a democracy to an autocracy.
Show Notes
Rachel Levinson-Waldman's Bio
Brennan Center for Justice
Trump Administration DocumentsPresidential Memo - "Countering Domestic Terrorism and Organized Political Violence"
Bondi Memo - "Implementing National Security Presidential Memorandum-7: Countering Domestic Terrorism"
"2026 Counterterrorism Strategy"
2027 FBI Budget Request to Congress
Executive Order Designating Antifa as a Domestic Terrorist Organization
Department of Justice - "The Biden Administration's Weaponization of the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act"
Executive Order - "Guaranteeing Fair Banking for All Americans"
Articles and Reactions
NPR - "'We're not afraid': George Soros' foundation on being Trump's next target" (Open Society Foundation)
Lawfare - "The Politically Motivated Indictment of Southern Poverty Law Center"
Civil Society Rights & Resiliency Resources - Charity & Security Network
"What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism"
Cato at Liberty Blog - "Politically Motivated Violence Is Rare in the United States" (right-wing extremists account for 11% of politically motivated killings, while left-wing extremists account for 2%)
Brennan Center for Justice - "Trump's Orders Targeting Anti-Fascism Aim to Criminalize Opposition"
ACLU - "How NSPM-7 Seeks to Use "Domestic Terrorism" to Target Nonprofits and Activists"
Just Security - "How Designating Antifa as a Foreign Terrorist Organization Could Threaten Civil Liberties"
Lawfare - "The Bondi Memo's Quiet Rewriting of Domestic Terrorism Rules"
Lawfare - "You Can't Designate 'Antifa.' Banks and Platforms Will Act Like You Did Anyway"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Missing episodes?
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Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome AU Public Policy Counsel Rachael Stryer to review what came out of the state legislative sessions this year. They survey the laws state legislatures passed to force religion into public schools, use religion to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and divert public money to private religious schools.
Show Notes
Rachael Stryer's AU Bio
Organized Power in Numbers
American Atheists - State of the Secular States
Legislative trackers
AU
ACLU
Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislatures
Congressional Scorecards
See your state ACLU for regional legislative tracking
Action Alerts
FFRF AF
AU
National Women's Law Center
ACLU
Bills and Cases Discussed
Ten Commandments Displays in Schools
Alabama (SB 99)
Tennessee (HB 47)
Ongoing Lawsuits
FFRF
AU
Prayer in Schools
Alabama (HB 511): Requiring public schools to allow student-led prayer and requiring the pledge of allegiance
Idaho (HB 623): Requiring a 60 second moment of silence for prayer or meditation at the beginning of the school day
Chaplains
Alabama (HB 8): Permitting school boards to adopt policies allowing volunteer school chaplains into schools
Release Time
Info on LifeWise
AU: "Release time is a problem for church-state separation"
FFRF Action Fund: "State Issue: LifeWise Academy/Release Time"
Classroom Instruction and Curriculum Policies
Tennessee (SB 1828): Requires public school history curriculums to teach about the positive impact of religion on American history and the influence of Judeo-Christian values
Idaho (S 1336) and Utah (HB 312 and SB 268): Requiring curricula to teach the influence of Christianity in American history
Vouchers
Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue (2020)
Carson v. Makin (2022)
Columbus City School District v. State of Ohio
Wisconsin PTA et al vs. Wisconsin State Assembly et al
Healthcare Refusal
Utah (SB 174) and Iowa (HF 571): Gives healthcare providers and religious healthcare institutions the right to refuse to provide services that violate religious beliefs.
Foster Care and Adoption
Indiana (HB 1389): Allows government-funded child placement agencies to use religion as a justification for refusing to work with families, youth in care, and prospective parents. And to allow adoptive or foster parents the right to "raise a child in a manner consistent with [their] sincerely held religious beliefs."
Elizabeth Rutan-Ram et al. v. Tennessee Department of Children's Services et al (AU)
Anti-Sharia law
Tennessee (HB 2279), Florida (HB 1471), Iowa (HF 2695), and Idaho (H 602)
Arkansas (SR 21)
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Alison, Liz, and Rebecca take on the far-right pronatalism movement with guest Emily Martin, NWLC's Chief Program Officer. They explain the movement's history of racism, sexism, and eugenics, the alarming support it has in the Trump administration, and what truly pro-family policy would look like.
Background
Emily Martin's Bio
National Women's Law Center
Sign up for alerts here
National Women's Law Center - "Baby Bonuses and Motherhood Medals: Why We Shouldn't Trust the Pronatalist Movement"
Heritage Foundation - Saving America by Saving the Family: A Foundation for the Next 250 Years
New York Times - "The Heritage Foundation Wants to Send American Women Back Half a Century"
Ms. Magazine - "Trump's Pronatalist Agenda Weaponizes Motherhood to Push Women Out of Public Life"
CNN Politics - "Hegseth invited pastor who calls for Christian theocracy to lead Pentagon prayer service"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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We Dissent welcomes guest Shiwali Patel, Senior Director of Education Justice at National Women's Law Center, who walks us through the anti-trans sports ban cases currently before the Supreme Court, Little v. Hecox and West Virginia v. B.P.J. We discuss the history of Title IX and why the attack on trans sports participation is really an attack on the basis of this critical nondiscrimination law.
Background
Shiwali Patel's bioNational Women's Law Center
Previous trans rights episodes
Episode 16 – Sex on the Brain: the Assault on Trans People with Sasha Buchert
Episode 38 – Skrmetti v. U.S.
NWLC Amicus
SCOTUSblog - "The justices and gender pronouns"
SCOTUSblog - "Supreme Court appears likely to uphold transgender athlete bans"
Cases
Little v. Hecox
SCOTUSblog
Oral argument transcript
West Virginia v. B.P.J.
SCOTUSblog
Oral argument transcript
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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We Dissent welcomes back Alison Gill as co-host! Alison shares what she's been up to since leaving the pod, and then walks Rebecca and Liz through the state of our federal bench. We discuss federal judicial nominations from the recent presidential administrations and what it has meant or means for religious liberty and other civil rights.
Show Notes
National Women's Law Center
Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy: Per Curiam - "Not Enough Respect For The Judiciary—or Too Much? Arrogance And The Myth Of Judicial Supremacy"
New York Times - "Trump's 'Superstar' Appellate Judges Have Voted 133 to 12 in His Favor"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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There's no new episode this month, instead we have a special message for our listeners. We're excited to announce that Alison Gill is returning to the podcast starting in February! Additionally, the National Women's Law Center is going to be a co-sponsor of We Dissent moving forward. We have a lot of great episodes planned for 2026 and can't wait to share them with you.
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca and Liz explain Landor v. Louisiana, the Supreme Court case that will decide whether a Rastafarian inmate who'd grown his dreadlocks for 20 years can sue the Louisiana prison officials who handcuffed him to a chair, held him down, and forcibly shaved him in violation of the law. They dive deep on the statute at issue in the case, the legal history leading up to this litigation, and what the oral arguments signaled. They also highlight some Supreme Court docket news!
Submit Listener Questions Here!
Case updates
Cambridge Christian School v. Florida High School Athletic Association
Davis v. Ermold
Background
SCOTUSblog case page
Previous episodes about RLUIPA
Episode 4 – Religious Liberty and the Death Penalty
Episode 11 – Religion Behind Bars
SCOTUSblog - "Court appears skeptical of prison inmate's religious liberty claim"
A Guide To Federal Religious Land Use Protections
AU's amicus brief
Cert petition
Transcript of oral arguments
Cases Discussed
Tanzin v. Tanvir
Employment Division v. Smith
City of Boerne v. Flores
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca cover Chiles v. Salazar, the case before the Supreme Court seeking to strike down a Colorado law banning mental health professionals from practicing "conversion therapy" on children. They explain the details of the case and discuss the hypocrisy of a ruling striking down the ban. They also recount the October 7th oral arguments, where the majority of justices signaled support for a ruling that will nullify state laws in half the country protecting LGBTQ youth from these discredited harmful practices.
Background
Oral argument transcript
Tenth Circuit Opinion
SCOTUSblog page
Amicus briefs
Americans United
FFRF
SCOTUSblog - "Does Colorado's "conversion therapy" ban violate free speech?"
The Trevor Project - "Chiles v. Salazar: What you need to know about the U.S. Supreme Court case on conversion therapy"
The American Psychiatric Association's position on conversion therapy
The American Psychological Association's position on conversion therapy
The American Medical Association's position on conversion therapy
"LGBTQ Policy Spotlight: From Conversion "Therapy" Laws Protecting LGBTQ Youth"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca and Liz break down the strong history of courts rejecting government attempts to display Ten Commandments in public schools. They explain the seminal 1980 case Stone v. Graham, the SCOTUS cases since then reinforcing that precedent, and the growing number of states passing blatantly unconstitutional laws that force public schools to display Ten Commandments.
Background
"Louisiana May Require the Ten Commandments Be Posted in Classrooms"
Cases
Stone v. Graham (1980)
Van Orden v. Perry (2005)
McCreary County v. ACLU (2005)
Louisiana: Roake v. Brumley (2024)
Complaint
District Court Opinion
Joint Statement
5th Circuit Opinion
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
Arkansas: Stinson v. Fayetteville School District No. 1 (2025)
Complaint
District Court Opinion
Joint Letter
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
Texas: Rabbi Nathan v. Alamo Heights Independent School District (2025)
Complaint
Preliminary Injunction
Joint Letter
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca and Liz commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Scopes Trial. They discuss the infamous "monkey" trial, and the history of teaching evolution in public schools. An "everything old is new again" episode, showing the impact of the Scopes trial throughout the last century and digging into the latest attempts by Christian Nationalists to inject religious teachings into science curriculum.
Background
Original text of the Butler Act
2025 Scope Trial Centennial speakers' presentations - FFRF
The Legacy of the Scopes Monkey Trial 100 years later - Americans United
The Scopes "Monkey" Trial with Brenda Wineapple - Freethought Matters
Cases
State of Tennessee v. John T. Scopes (1925)
Edwards v. Aguillard (1987)
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District (2004)
Epperson v. Arkansas (1968)
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca and Liz explore health care sharing ministries (HCSMs) with guest, Sarah Levin. Sarah guides us through this religious billion dollar industry. We discuss what HCSMs are and what they are not, and why we need to push for them to have transparency.
Background and Resources
Bio for Sarah Levin
Sarah's email: [email protected]
Secular Strategies
Secular Coalition for America
Center for Freethought Equality, HCSMs toolkit
Secular Strategies HCMS Slides
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - "Health Care Sharing Ministries"
The Actuary Magazine - "Health Care Sharing Ministries"
Southern Poverty Law Center - "ADF supports donor, trade group for controversial health care sharing industry"
Samaritan Ministries - "Guidelines for Health Care Sharing"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca explain the final three Supreme Court rulings with huge stakes for true religious freedom. They discuss the Court's continued zeal for religious favoritism in the Catholic Charities, Mahmoud, and Skrmetti rulings—further expanding exemptions from the law for religious employers, giving ultra-conservative religious parents veto power over public school curriculum, and upholding state bans gender-affirming care for minors with gender dysphoria.
Cases
Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (2025)
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
AU Blog - "The Catholic Charities SCOTUS case: Some relief and a word of caution"
Previous episode: High Unholy Season: Catholic Charities Bureau vs. Working Americans
Mahmoud v. Taylor (2025)
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
AU Blog - "Mahmoud v. Taylor: What representation would have meant to me"
Previous episode: High Unholy Season Continues: Mahmoud v. Taylor
United States v. Skrmetti (2025)
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
Previous episode: Skrmetti v. U.S.
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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The third in the "unholy trinity" of religion clause cases from the current SCOTUS term. Liz and Rebecca discuss the case that sought to create the nation's first Catholic public charter school and the surprisingly early decision issued by a divided Court. They explain how this case came to be, what the oral arguments revealed, and the high stakes of the case for our public school system.
Background
Opinion
SCOTUSblog
FFRF, AU, and ACLU amicus brief
SCOTUSblog: "Supreme Court divided over approving first religious charter school"
NPR - "Supreme Court blocks creation of religious charter school in Oklahoma"
SCOTUSblog - "Split Supreme Court blocks first religious charter school in Oklahoma"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca continue the SCOTUS religion cases coverage with Mahmoud v. Taylor, a case that threatens to force public school districts to bend to the will of their most conservative religious parents. They discuss how the case came to be, what the oral arguments told us, and why this case actually is about book banning and censorship.
Background
SCOTUSblog
Amicus briefs
AU
FFRF
SCOTUSblog: "Supreme Court considers parents' efforts to exempt children from books with LGBTQ themes"
Vox: "The Supreme Court threatens to bring 'Don't Say Gay' to every classroom in America"
Cases Discussed
FFRF v. The County of Lehigh (2016)
Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972)
Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2018)
Upcoming Case
Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board v. Drummond
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca break down the latest Supreme Court case, Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission. They explain how the case seeks to expand religious tax exemptions yet again, while threatening the unemployment benefits of thousands of workers. They share their analysis of the oral arguments and predictions on how the Court's decision will affect workers.
Background
Oral Argument
SCOTUSblog
Amicus briefs
Americans United
FFRF
Liz on the podcast "One Nation, Indivisible"
Vox: "The Supreme Court's new religion case could devastate American workers"
Upcoming Cases
Mahmoud v. Taylor
Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board v. Drummond
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Rebecca and Liz welcome Americans United Associate Vice President of Public Policy Dena Sher to the show to discuss President Trump's spate of executive orders. Dena reminds us what executive orders are and we break down the ones that affect religious liberty and the separation of church and state.
Background
Dena Sher, Associate Vice President of Public Policy at Americans United
How to take action
FFRF action alerts
AU action alerts
Executive Orders
EO establishing the White House Faith Office
EO creating a task force to eradicate anti-Christian bias
EO banning the use of federal funds to support gender ideology and discriminatory equity theories
EO expanding vouchers and school choice programs
EO defining gender as male and female
EO restricting transgender people from participating in sports
EO restricting gender affirming care
Other Legislation Discussed
Educational Choice for Children Act
Do No Harm Act
Louisiana law that would require Ten Commandments in classrooms
FFRF case page
AU case page
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca take a break from the regular schedule to answer listener questions. They talk about how the founders viewed state/church separation, the issues our movement should focus on, and how to engage women in the cause of secularism.
Resources
AU's Project 2025 Hub
Abortion resources
aidaccess.org
plancpills.org
How to Contact Your Elected Officials
FFRF
Join FFRF
Donate to FFRF
Sign up for action alerts
Americans United
Join AU
Donate to AU
Sign up for action alerts
Check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Bluesky, and X.
Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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SCOTUS is considering whether Tennessee's total ban on transgender medical care for minors violates the Equal Protection Clause, and Liz and Rebecca have some thoughts. They explain what the oral arguments last month revealed and what the stakes are for the real people who will be affected by the Court's decision.
Background
Case page on SCOTUSblog
Oral Arguments Transcript
Senate Bill 1
NYT: "Opinion - The Supreme Court Just Showed Us What Contempt for Expertise Looks Like"
SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court appears ready to uphold Tennessee ban on youth transgender care
Cases
Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2018)
Loving v. Virginia (1967)
Bostock v. Clayton County (2020)
Submit your questions for the mailbag episode here!
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Liz and Rebecca process the 2024 election results. They discuss the challenges the new administration will bring, some under-the-radar encouraging election results, and how their organizations plan to continue fighting for secular democracy in the months and years ahead.
Background
National Women's Law Center
Abortion
ACLU of Missouri's abortion case - Comprehensive Health of Planned Parenthood Great Plains & Planned Parenthood Great Rivers v. Missouri
AU's abortion case - Rev. Blackmon v. Missouri
Results for education and school choice ballot measures, 2024
Project 2025
Episode 34 - Project 2025
AU's Project 2025 Hub
CBS News: "See the full list of Trump Cabinet picks and major White House appointments"
New York Magazine: "All of the Trump Cabinet Picks That Have Ties to Project 2025"
Resources
FFRF
Join FFRF
Donate to FFRF
Sign up for action alerts
Americans United
Join AU
Donate to AU
Sign up for action alerts
How to Contact Your Elected Officials
Check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Bluesky, and X.
Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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