Episódios
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Despite the controversies, Arielle credits Starbucks for supporting their gender transition benefits-wise. A bittersweet chapter in their life that now fuels their passionate advocacy in transgender and queer communities. Arielle's journey from brewing lattes to consulting and advocacy isn't just a career shift; it's about creating inclusive spaces in coffee leadership.
TL;DL
Support for Trans Employees - Despite the criticisms of Starbucks, Arielle acknowledges the company's role in providing the employee benefits that supported their gender transition, highlighting a complex relationship with the coffee giant.
Inclusion in the Coffee Industry - The need for real inclusion, not just superficial diversity in the coffee industry, particularly in leadership roles, is emphasized, alongside the call for representation for marginalized groups, such as the Arab and queer communities.
Barriers in Specialty Coffee - Critique of the Specialty Coffee Association for the exclusivity and high costs of participating in its events, which can be prohibitive to individuals from marginalized groups including hourly baristas and those outside of major coffee hubs.
Controversial Takes on Coffee - Engaging in various "hot takes" regarding coffee culture, including the quality of Asian coffees, the complacency of the industry towards commodity-grade coffee, and challenging the narrow definition of what constitutes specialty coffee.
Creating Opportunities and Resources - Arielle suggests practical ideas like providing scholarships for baristas to attend industry events and suggests corporations pay higher prices to subsidize these initiatives.
Advocacy and Identity: "Like, I've always been someone that's pretty outspoken about my identity. It has always been someone who wants to use my experiences to help educate people."— Arielle RebekahMemorable Moments
00:00 Coffee community extends beyond product, connecting people.
06:52 Conflicted feelings about Starbucks and company values.
14:49 Colonial coffee trade, global history, diversity inclusion.
19:50 Inspirational podcaster discusses traversing diverse backgrounds.
26:12 Struggle with identity as a trans person.
36:38 Committing to an idea without much thought.
44:52 Hopeful for change, but money controls access.
59:07 Transitioning from freelance to passion projects and advocacy.
01:09:23 They are comfortable being open about themselves.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Hannah Said, a dedicated professional in the realm of diversity and inclusion, has built her career by significantly contributing to organizations such as the State Department of Disability in California, Walt Disney Company, and Lyft corporate.
Her journey took an unexpected turn when she contracted COVID-19 two years ago, which left her in isolation but with a burgeoning idea. Amidst the monotony and boredom of her recovery, Hannah dreamed of reuniting with her loved ones.
This aspiration, combined with her recent acquisition of a high-end espresso machine, inspired her to transform her yard into a welcoming space for connection and community. With a vision reminiscent of a childhood lemonade stand, yet tailored for adults, Hannah set out to create a quaint and personal coffee shop experience right at home.
Entrepreneurship and the Value of Community: "I just want my life to be around, create a a micro economy for me and my friends, and they create a micro economy for me." — Hannah SaidTL;DL
Embrace Vulnerability - Hannah advocates for getting comfortable with embarrassment and trying new things without the fear of looking foolish.
Coffee as a Cultural Connector - Both Hannah and I share a passion for coffee that goes beyond the beverage itself.
Diversity and Representation - Hannah's Saffron Cowboy is praised for promoting Arab representation and creating a diverse work environment.
Safe Spaces for Arab Queer Individuals - Hannah and I discuss the challenges of being Arab and queer in spaces that lack diversity and support.
Legacy of Inclusivity - Hannah's focus on building a legacy that supports community activation and diversity sets an example for other businesses to follow.
Personal Identity as Business Strength - Hannah's unapologetic connection to her biracial Middle Eastern and white identity informs the ethos and vision of Saffron Cowboy, making it stand out in the industry.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Full-time specialty coffee business with diverse events.
08:38 Cultural drinks and beans with diverse representation.
15:09 Curious about others' Arab American experiences.
17:33 Midwest experience differs for queer Arabs. Consider moving.
26:29 Saffron Cowboy's impressive growth and impact.
31:39 Grant funding supports disability employment through training.
34:27 Improvement in Saffron Cowboy's business is evident.
38:21 Excitement for industry innovation and diversity.
43:51 Struggling with ethical industry practices in employment.
54:31 Fascinated by stories shaping personal growth.
55:36 Passion for storytelling led to podcasting success.
01:02:53 Saffron Cowboy creating strong Middle Eastern identity.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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I have a very special guest who's pushing the boundaries of the coffee industry – Maya Crowley, the passionate and driven owner of Uncommon Coffee in Vermont.
Maya brings a new narrative to the scene with her fresh take on the oft-overlooked Robusta bean and her dedication to carving a space for minority voices in the globally-loved beverage. But it's not just coffee that stirs her soul – Maya is also an aspiring writer, an entrepreneur with a compelling family heritage, and even dreams of outwitting, outplaying, and outlasting on Survivor come 2025.
TL;DL
Perseverance in Entrepreneurship - Maya Crowley's journey from managing a bustling cafe in Burlington to navigating the challenges of opening her own business amid the pandemic demonstrates the resilience and determination it takes to succeed as an entrepreneur in the coffee industry.
The Power of Community - The tale of Maya's venture in Essex, bolstered by a vision for a rejuvenated strip mall and a strong sense of hometown connection, exemplifies the critical role community support plays in the success of small businesses.
Shared Struggles - Both Maya and I have faced personal and professional battles, finding solace and purpose in their work within the service industry. Their experiences underscore the common hardships many people face and how work can act as a refuge and a source of strength.
Specialty Coffee Advocacy - Despite the popularity of Arabica, Maya enlightens listeners on the uniqueness of Robusta beans and advocates for a broader appreciation and understanding, challenging the coffee industry’s educational and taste biases.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Overcoming adversity and finding the strength within.
05:35 Reflecting on challenges faced and personal growth.
13:09 Hometown business owner expands to the revitalized area.
17:59 Immigrant parents joke about going to school.
24:23 New Survivor contestants value control of information.
28:24 Accessibility to connect altered relationships.
33:20 Positive community response, collaborations, and hosting events.
39:39 Focus on measurable goals outside of scores.
43:24 Essential book for roasting Robusta coffee beans.
52:22 Emphasizing genuine intention, and community building in coffee.
58:19 Barista competitions favor money over skill. Period.
59:49 Competition framework dictates coffee scoring limitations.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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In this episode, Marissa shares her transition from a barista (who didn't even like coffee!) to becoming the head roaster at Novel Coffee Roasters.
Marissa also delves into the challenges and triumphs of being a woman in a male-dominated field, her push for inclusivity, and her aspirations to connect directly with coffee producers.
Plus, she shares a hot take on her love for gas station coffee and why tasting notes might be overrated.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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This week's episode features an intimate and thought-provoking conversation with the remarkable Marissa from Tanbrown Coffee in Atlanta.
🌟 Episode Highlights:
- Get to know Marissa, a trailblazer in the coffee industry, and the force behind Tanbrown Coffee, renowned for sourcing and roasting exceptional Asian coffees. Discover the inspirations and challenges that have shaped their journey.
- They dive into the Brewers Cup 2023 experience—preparation, competitions, and the strive for diversity and representation in the coffee competition space.
- Elena and Marissa candidly discuss the nuances of being people of color in a predominantly white industry and share personal anecdotes of facing microaggressions.
- Reconnect with your roots, as they explore the significance of cultural identity and representation in the coffee community.
- Join the conversation on the importance of accessible education in the craft of coffee roasting and brewing practices.
- Discover the profound impact that investing in women producers can have on communities.
- Delve into "hot takes" on the coffee industry, from the home brewing culture to the importance of fostering a supportive barista community.
P.S. We love hearing from our listeners! Give us your thoughts, questions, or suggestions for future episodes on IG.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Struggling to receive help learning about coffee.
08:36 Appreciates design, found new career path. Hated corporate.
10:40 Barista work provided unexpected value over design.
15:58 Encounter fueled anger, but the industry was empowering.
23:08 Aesthetics can be a barrier, but important.
31:19 Advocated for waitlist, practiced for Brewer's Cup.
36:04 Competing in coffee competition with a twist.
40:56 Advocating for diversity and opportunity in competitions.
44:34 Engaged with coffee community during pandemic.
49:35 Not close to parents, cultural connection struggle.
58:54 Discovering favorite Congolese coffee through regular tastings.
01:06:16 Promoting inclusivity and representation in the coffee industry.
01:10:55 Passionate about Yemeni coffees and community representation.
01:19:47 Enthusiastic praise for Brewer's Cup and community.
TLDR
1. Representation Matters: Both emphasize the importance of diversity and inclusivity in the coffee industry, with a specific focus on giving visibility and support to Arab and queer Arab communities, as well as addressing the underrepresentation of Asian coffees and producers.
2. Rising Above Discrimination: Stories from both highlight the need to confront and overcome the microaggressions and stereotypical questions based on ethnicity that are prevalent within the industry, and the motivational drive to create a safe and welcoming space for marginalized communities.
3. The Financial Hurdles of Competition: Their experience in the Brewers Cup illustrates the significant financial and resource-based challenges faced by competitors, especially those from underrepresented and under-resourced communities.
4. Authentic Community Engagement: Discussing the importance of genuinely reaching out to others in the coffee community without the immediate intent of turning relationships into business opportunities is a valuable takeaway for enhancing true communal support.
5. Perseverance and Skill Recognition: There's an emphasis on the desire for individuals to be acknowledged for their professional skills in coffee without being pigeonholed by ethnic or cultural stereotypes.
6. Sustainable Business Growth: Both advocate for responsible and slow business growth that ensures partnerships are aligned with core values and contribute to steady progression without reliance on substantial outside investment.
7. The Role of Women in Coffee Production: The positive...
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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In this episode, specialty coffee roaster Areli Barrera Grodski shares the origin story of how she and her husband Leon bootstrapped Little Waves Coffee Roasters in Durham, NC.
She takes us along on recent trips to origin in Brazil and Colombia, detailing learnings about women producers, processing methods, and building relationships. Areli discusses sourcing challenges from the pandemic and her future goals for supporting producers and providing career wages for her team.
Hear more during the post-show banter!
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Bonus post-show conversation
Paisa Coffee
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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How did an archaeology degree lead to overseeing quality at a decaf facility? Stacey shares her love of coffee competitions, robustas, and the exemplary cafes she experienced in Australia. She explains Swiss Water's process for ensuring decafs match the original.
Stacey cups each coffee decaffeinated at Swiss Water to ensure all our coffees taste as wonderful as we expect. Stacey stays involved in the coffee community outside of Swiss Water, and is a former Coffee in Good Spirits finalist and a member of the Barista Guild.
Here is the link to the postshow bonus chat.
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Hyacinth talks about their barista journey through the world of specialty coffee, from getting their first job at Starbucks to competing in national barista championships. Their passion for latte art and deep knowledge of coffee shines through as they describe bouncing between shops, attending throwdowns, and making connections in the industry.
The ups and downs of working in coffee, finding community among fellow baristas, and always striving to improve their skills make for an inspiring story.
Link to bonus post-show chat!
As mentioned before the podcast, there was a discussion about world events regarding Israel and Palestine. Here is the link to that discussion.
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Bonus conversation!
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
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My podcast website
Mentioned in this episode:
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
Here is a link to the post-show convo!
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
Mentioned in this episode:
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Andrea Rubi, a second-generation coffee producer in Honduras, shares her journey into the world of coffee in this transcript. Initially disinterested in coffee, Andrea was persuaded by her family to join the family business. Through hard work and education at a cupping school, she developed a passion for quality and began leading the harvest of their specialty coffee.
This led to a successful relationship with a roaster who expressed interest in purchasing their entire harvest of commercial coffee. Andrea discovered that by applying quality control measures, their commercial coffee achieved impressive cupping scores. She emphasizes the potential for success in both specialty and commercial coffee, with the right relationships and quality control.
Andrea's story reflects the power of perseverance and dedication. Despite the challenges brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic, she and her family started roasting and selling their own coffee, creating their brand and opening a coffee shop. Their passion, resilience, and commitment to learning have allowed them to attract customers and grow their business.
Andrea acknowledges the support of her family and emphasizes the importance of transparent and fair relationships with coffee buyers. She believes that more attention should be given to the struggles of producers at origin, including language barriers and low prices, in order to create a more equitable coffee industry. Andrea's journey exemplifies the importance of passion, resilience, and connecting with others in the industry.
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Bonus post-show conversation
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My podcast website
Follow the podcast on Instagram!
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Tanya Rao, owner of Kaveri Coffee Works — a small-scale, independent roasting business in Berkeley — coffee has been a family tradition for more than half a century. The Raos’ connection to coffee dates back to 1941, when Tanya’s grandfather, M.V. Rao, opened India Coffee Kiosk in Bangalore, India, in the Karnataka region — known for being the country’s largest coffee producer.
When M.V. could no longer run the family trade, he passed it on to Tanya’s father, Mohan Rao. Ever since then, coffee has defined a sense of home and purpose for the men in Rao’s family.
No one, however, expected or groomed Tanya, the youngest daughter, to take up the mantle. Yet here she is.
“I was next in line to get married,” Rao says. “But instead I broke barriers and challenged the status quo by leaving my [former] career to travel and own my business.”
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Hear additional post-show chatter here!
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From home roasting to making an impact globally, Stephanie's story is one to hear.
Stephanie, the owner of Swelter Coffee, shares her journey into coffee roasting and the origin of the name "Swelter." The name is derived from her maiden last name, Walter, and her shorthand, S. Walter. Stephanie started home roasting about 10 years ago and friends and family began calling it Walter coffee. When she turned her passion into a business, she decided to stick with the name for its personal connection.
Stephanie's interest in home roasting began when she stumbled upon a book by James from Blue Bottle, which taught her how to roast coffee at home. Over time, she developed a taste for lighter roasts and expanded her roasting capacity. Stephanie also started roasting at a co-roasting space in Berkeley, further fueling her love for the process and expanding her knowledge of coffee origin and processing.
Stephanie's idea of owning her own coffee shop became more serious after she had her daughter. She wanted her business to have a meaningful purpose and decided to focus on supporting women coffee farmers. Inspired by a talk on supporting women farmers for sustainability, Stephanie delved into learning about the challenges faced by women farmers and fair pricing.
Despite the pandemic causing delays, Stephanie launched Swelter Coffee in the summer of 2020. The pandemic served as a catalyst for Stephanie's entrepreneurial journey, and she is determined to make a positive impact in the coffee industry by championing gender equity and sustainability.
Stephanie's journey in the coffee industry has been driven by her passion and commitment to making a difference. She emphasizes the importance of building connections with coffee producers and sharing their stories with customers. Stephanie is also dedicated to gender equity and has created a coffee brand with a focus on supporting women farmers.
She has innovative approaches to sustainability, such as her Zero Waste Coffee Club, which offers a packaging solution that reduces waste and energy consumption. Stephanie plans to continue improving and expanding this circular packaging system, with a long-term vision of operating her company in a sustainable manner.
Stephanie's involvement in the coffee community has led her to attend various events and summits, such as the SCA Expo and the Women Powered Coffee Summit. She has felt a strong connection to mission-driven initiatives and emphasizes the importance of collaboration and dialogue across the global coffee community.
Stephanie also discusses the challenges of balancing her role as a full-time mom with running her coffee business and her desire to create a supportive work-life balance for her staff. Despite the difficulties, Stephanie finds motivation in being a role model for her child and maintaining hope and a positive mindset when starting a business.
https://sweltercoffee.com/
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
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Kape Catorce website
Bonus post-show chatter
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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In this episode, I get to talk to Emirati-native Zainab Al-Mousawi, owner of "To The Moon and Back", who gives us insight into her journey from when she first experienced drinking coffee to the journey from Melbourne and back to Abu Dubai, in effort to establishing her cafe during the COVID pandemic.
A woman of strength, talent, and courage, she goes into her difficulties of operating under extreme measures and wanting to create a place of inspiration, community, and empowerment for women following their passions and dreams.
"To The Moon and Back" is a lifestyle and legacy for Zainab in which she explains the effort and perseverance towards creating her cafe alongside her future aspirations and goals for the future.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
Mentioned in this episode:
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Bonus post-show chatter
Ruth Ann Church, founder of Artisan Coffee Imports, comes on this episode to share her love for economic development, interest in the developing the underdeveloped Decaf-coffee scene, and her relationships she made on a leap to Rwanda. Ruth brings appreciation for women-led communities and producers and internal development pre-existing in Rwandan communities.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Starting at the age of 14 in Columbia, Macarena has been entrenched in the coffee industry. As she states, coffee has opened her world and her eyes to the world. I talk to her about how she's taking a stand for what is right and wrong with the coffee culture.
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As always, bonus after-show chat.
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
Mentioned in this episode:
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Amaris Gutierrez-Ray shows a slight autobiography in this episode of what coffee means to her, how she found her identity and connection to her heritage, her love for knowledge, and how the coffee world has evolved her connection to her family.
She has played many roles over her journey within the coffee production industry, but is currently the Director of Coffee for Joe Coffee Company.
For more info on her non-profit organization, see below:
Women in Coffee Project
The takeaway from this episode is to stay hungry for information and stay inquisitive. She likes to consider it her nerd personality, but I think as much as that has a role of its own, I think it's important to be hungry to understand and to learn. Don't take everything for face value, question things, and learn on your own.
Take the time to really understand it and reach out to people who can give you even more insight and information. Because at the end of the day, there's only so much you can learn from one person. There's only so much you can learn from one site. And only one interaction will only give you one biased perspective of what it is.
I think her origin story was extremely poignant, and I think it had a specific emphasis in terms of communication. And this is why I love asking about those stories because it obviously leaves something impactful on you.
I do not romanticize the efforts that go into the labor, that go into the struggles of being a coffee producer. I'm talking from a person-to-person perspective and how that makes you feel that interaction that you have with them.
And what they're trying to explain to you and that interaction you have with them is something on a personal level. It should carry throughout whatever you decide to do. Each part of her story has really led her to come together and make something beautiful for other people.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Post-show bonus audio
Does Elena sound like Jasmine Garsd from NPR? You be the judge.
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