Episódios
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Topics Covered:
Acting like “roosters” in relationshipThe little vulnerable chickies withinWho really came up with this analogy...If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "Defensive Dating", Figs explains how becoming our "protector" selves in relationship backfires.
In a 30-second clip, reality tv star Tiffany Pollard lays it all out for her date:
"I want my eggs cracked" (I want a child)"I want my name dropped" (I want to be married)I'm not your bed maiden, maid, floozy, or [redacted]I'm not perfect, but I'm good to you, and you're going to have to give me something substantial.This is an example of a character strategy — a "protector" self deployed to shield our vulnerable, hurt selves from emotional pain.
Though her date doesn't speak during the entire video, we can also observe his character strategy — a skeptical, nonchalant, still-faced man.
Those 4 "people" are present in every conflict — your vulnerable self, your protector, your partner's vulnerable self, and their protector.
This strategy completely makes sense… and is a self-fulfilling, self-defeating prophecy.
Figs explains that every time you ask for your needs to be met as your protector — "I'm not playing with you." — it's like throwing a boomerang.
It guts your partner, who then deploys THEIR protector (Mr. Nonchalant Pants), and your boomerang swings back around to gut you — "See, they really DON'T care."
And on and on.
Most people who come in to have sessions with Figs are locked in this cycle.
So, how does he break you out of it?
Well, first, you have to see all sides of the boomerang effect at play and feel, "Look at how sad this is for both of us!"
Then — once the trust and understanding makes it safe for both of you — you can go deeper into vulnerability.
It is only then, with your protector reassured and from the voice of your vulnerable one, that you will ask for your needs to be met and have it actually happen in the way you long for.
And this happens in both directions — one partner is able to reach out to have the other be there for them, and the other is able to finally be good enough.
What is really transformative about this experience occurs when this moment becomes a memory. All those "files" informing your view of the world — telling you that you can't trust others to love you in the way you need, that you're alone or not good enough — now are up against at least one shining piece of proof that you ARE lovable.
Then we do it again. And again.
And those old files become less and less relevant.
And before you know it, you're both living in a world that's a little bit safer and brighter than before.
This can happen for couples with dramatic displays like this, and it can happen for you.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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Figs and Teale dig up the roots of Figs' shame around their wedding anniversary.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
consultations. -
TherapyJeff: https://www.tiktok.com/@therapyjeff/video/7368846526149479726
About the Empathi Method: https://empathi.com/about/?&utm_source=stream&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=chtm&utm_term=therapyjeff
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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Teale surprises Figs with a topic they've been dancing around since the very beginning of their relationship.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
consultations. -
Figs chats with podcast host (and relationship skeptic) Nicolas Gregoriades about the most common relationship dynamic between men and women.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
consultations. -
Are your concerns usually met with defensiveness? You might be stuck in a feedback loop… Figs explains why constructive criticism is so difficult, and what to do about it.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
consultations. -
Figs and Steph discuss the pros and pitfalls of the growing trend of partners "diagnosing" each other with personality disorders.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
consultations. -
Get an early release of the previously therapists-exclusive beat-by-beat breakdown: https://get.empathi.com/comehere/please-like-me-early-access
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "The Truth About Codependency", Figs explains how to actually help couples in a codependent relationship—starting with critiquing the term.
To do so, Figs explores 3 possible uses for "codependency":
Couples featuring a partner "Dependent" on substances (alcoholism, addiction) and their "Co-dependent" partner"Overly attached" couples high in conflict who think they "Just need to learn to be independent"Couples featuring a partner with trauma around having needs being unacceptableIn every single case, you first must normalize, normalize, normalize.
When the term "Codependent" was created to describe loved ones of addicted individuals and their behavior, they were missing an ingredient essential for understanding human behavior: Attachment Theory.
From day one, human beings need to be emotionally bonded to survive.
Everything supposed "codependent" individuals do and feel in relation to their adult primary attachment figure makes absolute sense in this context. This isn't something to be fixed.
In cases featuring substance abuse, each partner's actions make sense, but they will not be able to proceed to the next step until the addicted partner(s) can be fully there for the other.
After couples understand their relationship system, that there's nothing wrong with either of them, and that their behaviors are actually born out of a need for each other's love, one partner is able to ask for their needs to be met.
This is where, as Figs describes it, a "threshold moment" occurs. Either they ask for their needs to be met, their partner is able to do so, and they experience profound emotional healing, or they see their partner isn't able to be there for them and get to say, "No."
The final step is to integrate what has happened—remembering there's nothing wrong with you, and asking for your needs to be met from a place of vulnerability and connection is more rewarding than placating or hiding.
You now have the ability to do this process, repair conflicts and heal wounds from the past, over and over again for the rest of your life.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "How to Fix a Toxic Relationship," Figs breaks down what a toxic relationship is (and isn't) and the steps necessary to repair it.
For the purposes of this conversation, a toxic relationship is one in which the couple is spending days, weeks, months—a significant amount of time—in "disconnection" without meaningful repair.
This can include individual negative cycles (conflicts) that persist or escalate dramatically, and/or it can mean the couple is spending very little time in connection over a longer period of time.
Most importantly, couples in a toxic relationship are not having meaningful repair—a multi-dimensional empathetic experience wherein they're able to be there for each other lovingly, feel their individual pain, and feel empathy for both of them together.
So, in order to fix a toxic relationship, Figs leads couples through three stages:
Stage 1: Break down the negative cycle and help both partners recognize the tragedy they are both engaged in together, cognitively and emotionally. This is the most difficult step in the process.
Stage 2: Go deeply into one partner's pain, organize it, have them feel it fully, and ask for their needs to be met—then, their partner shows up for them. Do this in both directions.
Stage 3: Help the couple integrate what they accomplished. They are not "toxic" or broken, and they can repeat this process of repair for the rest of their lives.
Please note that if you are experiencing domestic abuse, it is not currently possible for you to safely attempt to navigate these stages. Reach out for help online at https://www.thehotline.org or by phone at 1-800-799-7233.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "Attachment in HBO's Succession," Karen joins Figs to discuss a particular scene in Succession (S4E2) as a representation of deep attachment-based wounding.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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Couples Therapy Works: How do you know if your partner's behavior is unacceptable? Karen joins Figs to answer this important client question.If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit
empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy
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In "Seeing The Negative Cycle" Figs and Karen take a close look at the makeup of The Cycle, a concept from Emotionally-Focused Therapy.
A cycle is the negative "infinity loop" every couple inevitably encounters in their relationship, which shows up for partners as conflict they get into over and over.
Download the infinity loop sheet: https://get.empathi.com/episodes/seeing-the-negative-cycle
Figs describes it as a river that is always running underneath your house, but which only rises above ground-level from time to time. The emotional bonding dynamic in your relationship is ever-present, but is most easily accessed in moments of conflict.
To recognize that you are in a negative cycle, Karen suggests paying attention to the language you are using (such as "You always–" and "You never–"), and to what is going on in yourself (are you triggered or reacting with fight/flight/freeze/fawn behaviors)?
Figs explains that if you are experiencing any of the 4 quadrants of the infinity loop, then you are in a cycle.
These quadrants are… You are hurting, you have a negative judgment of your partner, your partner is hurting, and your partner has a negative judgment of you.
Each of these feed into and result from each other, and so if one of those elements is present, Figs emphasizes that it's highly likely they are all present.
All roads to a better relationship pass through "We are in a system together."
Understanding The Cycle is the first step.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "Behind the Therapists" Karen and Figs use the feeling of being overextended to explore 3 "roses" and 1 "thorn" about being a couples therapist, each.
Karen finds it rewarding to…
Take desperate and confused couples and organize what is really happening for them.Help others (thereby feeling valuable as a person enough to "exist for today.")Experience couples on the edge of giving up on the relationship become open-hearted.Karen finds it most difficult to bear the moments when a couple is stuck and she has a hard time holding them in a frame of hope.
Figs is fulfilled by…
How alive couples therapy is—he has to show up for the couple in the moment, no matter what.Going deeper and deeper into sadness, hopelessness, and despair with a couple, trusting that they'll come through closer.The performance and artistry of a session.The most difficult sessions for Figs are when a couple doesn't trust him yet—they're not in alliance.
"Research has shown that a simple act of kindness directed toward another improves the functioning of the immune system and stimulates production of serotonin in both the recipient of the kindness and the person extending the kindness.
Even more amazing is that persons observing the act of kindness have similar beneficial results. Imagine this: kindness extended, received, or observed beneficially impacts the physical health and feelings of everyone involved.” — Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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"Why He Withdraws" is a follow-up to the last Figs & Teale episode, "Pursuer Problems," and it's Figs' turn for an "affect assembly" with Teale's help.
After just a bit of stalling, Figs describes a recent negative judgment of Teale after she didn't text him when she was out with her friends like he asked her to and then went out paddling the next morning before he woke up.
He describes these judgments as "inconsiderate," and then—hinting at the deeper vulnerability—"hypocritical" and "unreasonable."
Figs, in feeling not considered by Teale (a more classically Pursuer sensitivity) actually started to access all the times he felt judged as the inconsiderate one (his deeper Withdrawer "not enough" sensitivity).
He then, in touch with those feelings of not being good enough, tried to be "good" by not outwardly expressing those negative judgments of Teale—which Figs now knows was not actually the "right" thing to do.
While walking through Figs' negative judgments and feeling not good enough, Teale demonstrates her acceptance and love of Figs—which is hard for Figs, who is struggling to let it in, and who feels like it's unacceptable not to be able to.
In voicing that, however, Figs can see that Teale is also able to hold that "unacceptable" part of Figs, and he is able to experience relief and connection.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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What do you do when there are no moves left?
In "Impossible Moments" Figs and Karen discuss a moment every couple will experience throughout their relationship—being so reactive and so hurt they are simply unable to move forward.
This can show up as a conflict in the course of a normal day, such as Figs and Teale experienced in the example Figs shared, or it can show up when two people are very close to ending things, as was the case with Karen's clients.
Figs explains that because couples are experiencing emotional bonding trauma very deeply in those moments, if a therapist can hold them in their feelings of abandonment or rejection, they will reach for each other from that place of vulnerability and be able to have a transformational experience.
Figs and Karen also discuss the value of "meta-processing" for integrating moments of healing in a couple's relationship—for impossible moments, and in relation to the last Relationship Experts episode with Teale.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email [email protected] or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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The balancing act of couples therapy takes center stage in "Back From Betrayal" as Figs and Karen break down the process of bringing couples who are grappling with a betrayal to repairing and strengthening their relationship.
As compassionate witnesses, Empathi couples therapists guide couples toward "all needs met" moments, which means exploring their vulnerable perspectives in a way so that each member feels understood and is able to empathetically hear what the other partner is sharing.
With a betrayal such as an affair, the "betrayer" often wants to "get back to good" as soon as possible. In this case, Figs and Karen emphasize experiencing and exploring the negative feelings resulting from the betrayal which the "betrayer" is trying to avoid.
As couples therapists, they will explore deeply the many different kinds of betrayal that the "betrayed" has felt for their benefit, but also so that the "betrayer" can recognize it and emulate that empathetic support.
Then, there is space to explore the "betrayer"'s pain in the present moment and what they were seeking through the affair or other betrayal.
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email [email protected] or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "Breakup Empathy" Figs and Karen examine why empathy is the essential ingredient in their work with couples, even when they part ways.
"Empathy" in this case is not just a person feeling compassion and understanding their partner, it's the ability for both partners to see the relationship as a whole and experience empathy for each person in the system, together.
But before it can be experienced, couples will have, say, six beats of time—minutes, hours, days—wherein they cannot control their reactivity and reliance on "the story of other." Even for experienced couples therapists in relationship, the moment is lost.
It's important for couples to not try and prevent those six beats of reactivity, but to work on reaching "beat seven"—that moment of empathy for themselves, their partner, and both of them together.
Even when couples therapy clients decide to sever their bond, this empathy is essential for each partner's healthy understanding of relationships and themselves. Otherwise, not only can they carry resentment which negatively affects their future relationships, they may harbor negative core beliefs about themselves such as "I'm too much" and "I'm not enough."
Couples Therapy Works is a new series from the Come Here To Me team delving into the complex work of couples therapy from the ground up. Each episode will feature one or more of Empathi’s own counselors as they examine the truths and challenges of relationship repair.
To submit a question for Figs and Karen to answer, email [email protected] or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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In "Pursuer Problems" Figs asks Teale to model moving from a negative "story of other" (blaming and criticizing your partner) to a self-compassionate "story of self" from the perspective of a "Pursuer" in the relationship.
As a Pursuer, Teale is usually more sensitive to feelings of being left alone, abandoned, and not prioritized by her partner. In couples therapy sessions, the Pursuer partner tends to have a harder time letting go of the negative view of their partner because their "pursuit" of closeness is seen as a sign of love, while a Withdrawer's distance is attributed to apathy.
But, as Figs and Teale discuss, recognizing that each partner co-creates a negative system together is an essential part of relationship repair.
Teale recognizes this, but to understand it deeply she must start with herself—move from blaming Figs to examining which "Flavor of love" she is not getting and how it hurts. Then, she can share that vulnerable story with Figs and together they can build on it to create a shared narrative which includes Figs' experiences.
Relationship Experts Walk The Talk is a deep dive into the struggles, cycles, and joys of relationship from couple and counselors Figs and Teale. Learn how to repair conflict and understand each other through their personal therapy sessions, storytelling, and expertise as couples therapists.
To submit a question for Figs and Teale to answer, email [email protected] or leave a comment on YouTube, Instagram, or Apple Podcasts.
If you or someone you love are struggling in your relationship, visit empathi.com for the relationship quiz, courses, and therapy consultations.
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