EP 270 The Role Heart - Brain Coherence Could Have on Your Fertility

30 jan · The Wholesome Fertility Podcast

00:27:29

On today’s episode, I’ll be covering how recent research from HeartMath institute shows us what Chinese Medicine has been teaching for centuries, and that is that the heart houses the mind. I will also cover why that matters when it comes to fertility health!

In this episode I will go over:

-Why you can’t control emotions directly (and what you can do to shift them over time).

-How to use biofeedback on your heart brain coherence for free on an app.

-The importance of your heart state and why it behaves like a little brain.

For more information about Michelle, visitwww.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. On today's episode, I'm going to talk about something that I find really fascinating and I've actually gotten into something called heart math, but I'm going to discuss also the connection between the heart and the uterus and why the heart is something that often gets overlooked.

Emotions often get overlooked when it comes to the fertility journey. Many times when somebody's undergoing fertility challenges, they'll go immediately to what foods they should eat, what kind of supplements they should take, etc. But so much in the, literally, no pun intended, the heart of it really needs to go to The emotional state of the person from a Chinese medicine perspective and from my perspective as a practitioner I see that because that's one of the things that I look at when I'm treating people So I'm gonna give you kind of my perspective as a practitioner and I'm also gonna give you some[00:01:00]data and research and science That's out there something called heart math Institute, which I'll be Explaining a little bitmore in a bit But it is really important not to miss the state of the heart because thestate of the heart impacts the uterus directly by a vessel called bowel my I've discussed this before as the heart uterus connection and basically the heart's role onthe uterus is to open the uterus and when the heart is imbalanced, it can impact the role.

Cause just think about anything. If something has a role, anything, and it has otherthings that are stressing it, thenit's just not going to do its job as well as it wouldhave if it feels more balanced and whole. So, I'll explain exactly like really the energetics of the heart. So, when I talk about energetics of the[00:02:00]heart, I'mreally talking about a TCM perspective, a traditional Chinese medicine perspective.

And it's different than if you went to a cardiologist and they said, Oh, something's wrong with your heart. Nothing necessarily is physically wrong with the heart. You could still have an energetic imbalance with the heart and that have nothing to do with. like a physical manifestation or something going on like physical that really needs to get treated emergently.

So I want to throw that out there again. Also, this is not medical advice. This is not something that should be used as a medical diagnosis, but I thought that it was veryimportant to address. And then you can also look into some of the resources thatI'll be mentioning. So the heart in Chinese medicine is considered to be housing the mind.

So the mental state of a person is very much connected and linked to the part. So[00:03:00]the heart immediately responds to any mental conditions. And if you've been in a situation where you've had anxiety, you may realize or feel that you have heart palpitations or you're nervous about something, you'll feel it immediately in your heart.

What's interesting is, is that We've always been taught that as traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, that the heart houses the mind and that there is this connection. But new research from the heart math Institute, interestingly enough, is also showing that there is a connection. There's this connection and communication that happens between the heart and the mind.So what they're finding is that the heart actually sends signals to the brain. So what state your heart is in and your heart almost has like neurons the way it functions and it's almost like another brain really? So it's fascinating to just think about because[00:04:00]most of the time you don't really think of the heart as having that much of an impact, but it can actually similarly to the gut when they talk about the gut microbiome.If you have a lot of Candida, for example, if you have certain dysbiosis where there's an imbalance in the microbiome, whatever that microbiome wants, it will signal to the brain for you to eat. So say you have a lot of Candida, um, Which likes sugar, it's going to cause you to crave sugar. So it's kind of fascinating how we think we're in control.And then we have these organs that are actually communicating with our brain, telling the brain what it wants. And so it sort of overrides our own logic and our will in a sense. So there is this really strong connection between the two. And the non top of it, the heart has a really important role on the uterus.So, therefore, having that connection between the heart and the brain, and then the heart and the[00:05:00]uterus, one can deduce, and obviously I'll be talking also about the research, that the mental state, really getting into control of the mental state, can impact your uterus. Ultimately, and that there is this connection between the heart and the mind and having this coherence.So coherence when something is in coherence and the heart math institute, they talk about that a lot heart coherence and when your heart is in coherence, which what that means is that it's organized, it has a pattern that's rhythmic and it's more consolidated where it's not as erratic. If you're stressed, what they see is that if you're in a stress mode or if you're in a mode, really, that's depleting of energy that is going to impact the way the coherence shows up in your heart.

So the coherence gets impacted by your state of mind and vice versa. It[00:06:00]also impacts your state of mind. So there are certain exercises that they found, one of them slowing down your breath. And they found that doing these exercises can increase your heart coherence and therefore increase your brain coherence and that altogether over time impacts something called the heart rate variability and which, just to explain it in layman's terms, is that heart rate variability means that it can basically stretch itself and adjust accordingly to certain situations easily.Basically what it means is that it's more adaptable and over time when you do these exercises that really come down to our own intention, our breath work and our, where we're putting our energy and our focus. And also thinking about positive things that you love. So having a state of thinking about what you love in your life,[00:07:00]which points to why a gratitude journal is so important, is because it's putting your focus on what you have, and it also puts your focus on something that really fills your heart.And all of us can find something. So that's something that, over time, Is a practice.It's called a practice for a reason is because the more you practice, the better you become, and the more you train your mind to focus on those things. And when you get into that state, you really do become a magnet for more of those things.And you get into a state of receivership. So a lot of what I'm saying. Is really things that I've seen with my own patients, these are observations I've made and I think that it's really helpful to, for anybody who's going through the fertility journey to hear and also kind of a little bit of, um, uh, pre announcement, I am in the works of finishing up a book. And I'm very excited about it. It's called the way of fertility. And it talks[00:08:00]really about the energetics of fertility. And I'm very, very excited about it because it's a lot about what I've seen. It's a lot about what ancient medicine has been teaching us. And if you look at really ancient teachings, ancient medicine, they've always been pointing to very similar, like a lot of different teachings point to the similar things.And really what it comes down to is having a state of living in the accordance with the way. With a DAO, which is nameless, but it's this state of harmony that gets created when things are in balance. And when that happens, it doesn't even necessarily have to rely on what you're eating or doing. It really has to do with how you're being, your state of being and state.

And, and it tends to be a really hard thing to control because it's not something that we can observe with the senses that we're, we use a lot, which are the hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing, it's a different type of.[00:09:00]sense. It's something that's more interoception. Basically what that means is that feeling inside of your body, what is going on and what heart math does.It's so fascinating and I actually highly recommend getting Um, a device. It's about 150 bucks, but it's worth it. It connects to the app, the heart math app, or you don't have to actually get the device. If you want to start the only app of theirs that you can test your coherence is the global, the global coherence one. And that is more where you're joining groups, but nobody really knows who youare. It just, all it does is measure your heart coherence, but it does so in a way of where you're putting your finger on the camera and then you connect with that and that it actually does, um, check your heart rate variability and your heart coherence through that.And so that's one free way if you want to just check it out. It won't [00:10:00]work on the just straight up heart math where they have the different exercises, But it works on the group one. So you could definitely take a look. The group one also has video lessons and it explains everything. The reason I get so excited about this is because I just completed a certification for heart math and I'm just blown away.I mean, there's so many levels of like learning about the body and the mind and now. we have so much research and so much coming out that have really been proving what has been said all along. It's basically proving what Chinese medicinesays, which is that the heart houses the mind and the connections.I mean, the heart housing the mind means without the heart, you don't have. A heldmind, basically. And so when the heart is not in a stable mode, how can it hold amind? And there are certain people, which is fascinating. I'll, I'll mention this. My husband's an ER doctor. I've mentioned that[00:11:00]before. So you've been listening to the podcast.You probably know. And what he actually mentioned, this is fascinating.Absolutely fascinating. He had mentioned that when people talk about people dying of a heart of a broken heart. There's actual science that shows that there is no medical reason, no like common medical reason for why the person would have aheart attack, meaning there's no blockage, there's no like specific reason that is typical for people getting heart attacks, so it's not like a blockage or a clot or like You know, arteries getting like calcified or, you know, all the typical reasons why a person would normally have a heart attack. They don't have that reason. They actually have a completely clear heart and that the only explanation would be that they're impacted by a very tremendous loss. Soit just goes to show how important it isto[00:12:00]acknowledge that and realize that and so with feelings I want to mention We're not really built to control our feelings. When the feelings happen, they happen. It's almost like trying to control the wind. When the wind happens, you just let it happen. You allow it to happen. If you try to stop it or resist it, it actually makes it worse. So that's why whenever I talk about validation a lot, because validation is super powerful. It's important to validate your feelings. And I remember a teacher telling me this was a health teacher in my middle school years, which happened to be really hard for me. It was around the time my parents got divorced and it was a really hard time. And I remember her mentioning. feelings aren't right or wrong.They just are. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. This really, really speaks tome on so many levels. And so that was something very powerful. And I just want to mention this to you. Like there is no right or[00:13:00]wrong way to gothrough the fertility journey. To feel through the losses and most of the time the losses happen from my understanding from a lot of my patients and obviously every case is different. But a lot of people say they go through it alone. So it is really important to find agood community. And I've actually two of my patients who I absolutely adore.They both came to me. They're both really close friends. They actually met me fairly recently, but they felt this really strong bond together and, um, they talk about each other like they're sisters.It's just amazing. And they're both going through the same thing and they're both expressing to me, Oh my God, if I didn't have her, I don't know what I would do.It's just like nobody else gets it. So to have that person in your life that truly gets itis priceless. And unfortunately not[00:14:00]everybody has that. However, nowadays, there are a lot of communities out there where people feel so hurt and so seen and this is for pregnancy loss or people going through the fertility journey and I'm not talking about just like some of the Facebook groups and you have to be really careful because sometimes I've heard from a lot of people that it can bring them down and they hear bad news and so it really depends on what it is, you know, getting clear on like what it is that makes you feel better.

and finding the group that resonates for you. And sometimes it is just venting, needing a place to vent and have that. What I mean by bringing them down is when they're seeing like people get getting pregnant and then losing it and then it gets into their mind, Oh my God, is that going to happen to me? You know, those kinds of things. So you really have to know yourself and knowhow certain things are impacting your heart, your heart state, how it feels. And really interoception is this[00:15:00]golden key of connecting with your body.And one of the best ways to strengthen that is really getting quiet and heart math isa wonderful way as well.And you could do that a couple of times a day or just even once a day for five minutes. And start out. So the amazing thing about it is that it's like biofeedback.The device connects, you, you basically put it on your earlobe. It's super easy, not complicated at all. And if you get the device, you could also do it with your finger. Um, so I'd mentioned that, but if you do get the device, it's really, really easy touse. You literally put it on your earlobe. And what's amazing about it is that it is a form of biofeedback, which basically. It teaches your mind, when you're aware of what's happening to your heart, to pretty much control the heart.And the tool that you do that with is a breathing, a certain type of breathing rhythm. And it also tells you, it[00:16:00]has a little, like, I don't know if it's like circle, each one is a little different. So you'll see, but it'll basically have a tool that shows you, you inhale to one end and then you exhale to another end.And you just follow this circle or meter, you know, everyone's a little different andyou follow that. And as you're breathing, you're breathing from the heart area. So you just imagine as if your heart is breathing and you go in and out and then youfocus on emotions of love. You bring yourself back to a place in your life.Maybe it's when you met your partner or something that really, really resonated, or even like connecting with your pet. Something that makes you feel that warm and fuzzy feeling. Getting to that state and when you do that, you start to, it's pretty much meta meditation, which is loving kindness. It's very similar to that.

And then you do that every single day. At first you start out with your eyes closed and you focus on this[00:17:00]and you measure your coherence. But over time,you may not even need the device. You could be out somewhere and dealing with something that might be triggering or stressful. And during that time. You get intothe state, you'll know how to connect with that again.So you start to breathe like that on your own because over time you practice andit's something that you can bring up. It's an emotional state that you can actuallystart to bring up and control. And that's the fascinating thing about it. So as I mentioned before, emotions are really, once emotions get triggered or they'reactive, it's very hard to put them back in the box. So you just let them. Do their thing, let them feel them. Doesn't mean to scream at people or anything like that. Obviously control yourself to some extent. If you're out in public, find a space, maybe take a couple of deep breaths and kind of be with yourself and, or if you can. Just acknowledge them, talk about them,[00:18:00]feel them, be with them. It's okay. Like just really validate and go through those emotions. Once that happens, one of the things that you can control, so it's not so much emotions, but what you can control. And this is something that happens over time is number one, your awareness of what thoughts were you having that contributed to those emotions having like happening. And most of the time you will find that there's certain thoughts that can make you feel those emotions. So for example, I'm really impatient. So when I'm driving, I get really like frustrated with the drivers here in Miami and What aremy thoughts my thoughts are I have to be somewhere and and so I start to stress myself out and I feel my Heart increasing. So this is just an example I'm just giving you some random example so that you understand like how thoughts really do come into play and One evidence is of that is why? Can you[00:19:00]have ten different people with the same exact situation? But they'll have 10 different reactions to them. Some people will get sad.Some people will get angry. Some people will just not care. Everybody has a different response. What is it that's different about them? It's probably, well, it is, it's their thought or perspective on the situation. And that is one thing we can't control. So when we do have emotions and they're active, you allow yourself to go through that.

You accept it. You don't resist it. You allow it to be, but one of the things that youcan do over time is control where your mind is going, and that will empower you, especially when you're dealing with challenges. So one of the ways that I find. That helps with that is a gratitude practice because all it does is it really Trains your mind over time to focus on what you do have so the small wins You know the small tiny wins my AMH increase something even if it's not like a full big one[00:20:00] Something that happens, just celebrate those wins. And then if your body does something that you're excited about, like you ovulated or the menstrual cycle is starting to get a little more regular. I have one patient where her menstrual cycle is starting to regulate, but she hasn't gotten pregnant and she's going through the same disappointment every single month, every time she gets her period. And we talked about it. I talked about validating that and allowing herself to have that good cry. And it's important to feel the feelings. And yet she told me, I know that this happened. It was really disappointing, but I'm really happy because my period is better. Like I'm seeing improvements in my body, which tells me that things are going well.So those are small wins. They're tiny little wins, but ultimately. One of the things that I find really powerful is just doing a gratitude journal and slowly moving your mind into a state of thinking about things that make you[00:21:00]feel good. AndI highly recommend starting this HeartMath practice and looking into the different exercises.You can find also tons of videos about it if you're interested and you want to learn more on YouTube. Just Look up HeartMath or go to the HeartMath Institute website and they have products. They have apps again You could start out with free. I recommend if you can invest in the device, but you don't have to have the device So there are definitely many ways to do that.But what it does is it really ultimately nurtures the state of your heart and ultimately The heart is the way through to the uterus. So I'm seeing it from a TCM perspective and how I see my patients getting impacted from the acupuncture and also from lifestyle changes. I see how they get impacted And I see how the[00:22:00]emotion component of it is really, really important.

It should not be ignored. It is an important thing, and ultimately because you deserve to feel well. You deserve to feel good in your body. You deserve to not suffer. So, these are little tools, but again, if you are suffering, there's no right or wrong way. Like, It just is. So, just like feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are. However you are in this state is just how you feel, and that's okay. Like, once you have those active emotions, just allow them to be. Pemo Chodron, she's, uh, an author and Buddhist monk. And she talks a lot about sitting with your emotions. And one of the books that I love also by Michael Singer is the Untethered Soul. He talks about leaning into what is leaning into the emotions that you're feeling. And I find that to be incredibly powerful because it's[00:23:00]when you allow yourself, it's when you don't resist what is that it frees you. It really frees you and it allows the emotions to move. So you're not holding them in place, you're just allowing them to be. And you're honoring that. You're honoring the state that you're in. So, really it's two fold. It's doing the practice and guiding yourself little by little and really becoming aware of your emotional state and how that impacts your heart. And noticing also, like, how does your heart feel? Sometimes you will literally feel a pressure on your chest if you're feeling anxious. And again, when you're feeling that just be with it, but the awareness of what that can teach you in that moment showing you how your body's reacting is huge. Because it shows you, it starts to teach you how your body responds and how yourbody sends you signals when it is in certain states. So I hope this was beneficial for you.

I[00:24:00]do feel like it can really empower you once you really understand that inner terrain. I talk a lot about that. And it's because it is, hands down, one of the most powerful things you can do. Not only for your state of being, but also for your body. Your body will respond to your emotions and your state and yourthoughts are what controls the emotion. So that's kind of like the steering wheel. If you guys ever want to, you can DM me on Instagram. That's always a good place to find me. And my Instagram is at the wholesome lotus fertility. And you can DM me. I have a lot of people, actually, alot of listeners reaching out to me there. I also give a lot of free fertility content on there, so it's a good place to go.Lots of good tips on diet, supplements, lifestyle, mind tips, all of that. And thank you so much for tuning in today.

Have a beautiful day.

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EP 303 The Impact of Stress and Gut Health on Fertility | Dr. Melissa Levy
17 set· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
I am thrilled to have one of my practitioner certification graduates and fellow acupuncturist, Dr. Melissa Levy. Dr. Levy is a practitioner with a passion for health, wellness, and fertility. Originally from the Philadelphia area, she ventured to Florida to pursue her education at the University of Tampa. A personal health journey changed the course of Dr. Levy's life. Facing health issues that Western medicine couldn't address, she discovered holistic practitioners who listened and considered the full body as a unit. This holistic perspective helped her understand her body better and manage her hormonal imbalances through acupuncture. This transformative experience inspired her to become a Doctor of Acupuncture and Functional Medicine Practitioner. Dr. Levy holds numerous certifications, including Certified Functional Medicine Practitioner, Certified Health Coach, and Certified Fertility Coach. As a board-certified diplomate of Oriental Medicine by NCCAOM and a licensed Acupuncture Physician in Florida, she founded the Integrative Wellness Center (IWC) in 2019. Her vision was to create a healing sanctuary for individuals, especially those who have lost hope. Her evidence-based practice model combines patient values, the best research evidence, and her clinical expertise to offer exceptional care. Initially, her onsite clinic in Jacksonville allowed her to help only local patients. Realizing the need to reach more people, she created online programs and coaching services to share her knowledge with individuals in different locations. Dr. Levy's goal is to provide the best comprehensive care to those who need it and are willing to make changes to better their health and lives. She aims to change how healthcare is delivered by providing exceptional, holistic care. Her mission extends beyond treatment; she strives to educate all her patients about the advantages of living a holistic life. Each encounter is an opportunity for her to positively impact her patients' lives, and she approaches this with unwavering dedication and care. Dr. Levy offers in-person appointments at her clinic in Jacksonville and provides virtual functional medicine consultations for Florida residents and functional health coaching for individuals everywhere. Websites: https://www.healthbymelissa.com https://www.iwcjacksonville.com Instagram: @dr.melissa_levy For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Melissa Levy. I'm so excited to have you on. Melissa Levy (00:04) Yes, I'm so excited. I'm looking forward to this, being able to talk with you again and just dive into what I do and the world of fertility. Michelle (00:12) Yes, and I'm so I was lucky enough to work with Dr. Melissa Levy and she was one of my students for my fertility practitioner course. I have to say, I just have to say this. Well, she's kind of stands on her own anyway. Yes, she got an extra certification, but she's like just a phenomenal like knows what she's doing type of practitioner and I mean, you really like went into everything like no stone unturned. I just love your motivation, your passion. Like, and it was it's legit. I just want to say that. Melissa Levy (00:46) Well, I think we even talked about this, like we're kind of just a lifetime learner. even though, you know, when I saw this course that you had, I was like, well, why not learn a little bit more? You know, I'm always diving into something, learning something new. And it just, the field that we're in, it's just kind of never ending of things you can learn and kind of better your education and further it. So it was great to just learn a little bit more and then the more you learn, the more you're open to and the more people you meet. So it was a great experience. So thank you. Michelle (01:13) Yeah, and I feel like you were already well versed. I mean, you stand alone on your own. So it was just awesome working with you. But I would love for you to share your background and how you got into wanting to do this Melissa Levy (01:26) Yeah, of course. I just remember being, I think most people have a similar story is like growing up, you're not really taught anything about your cycle. I had issues with my cycle. It's probably about 16 and I really didn't get my cycle yet. So I just remember going to the OB and they're saying, oh, all right, well, here's birth control. And I'm thinking in my head, great, now I'll be normal and... you know, have a normal cycle. And so I didn't know any better and most people don't. So from the age of 16, I was on birth control to help regulate my cycle. And then also having ovarian cyst, I had surgery, I believe my junior year of high school for like a big ovarian cyst, which they thought was endometriosis. So, you know, I'm 16 and they're telling me, hey, you've endometriosis without even looking, you know, looking at anything, just throwing names out there, which I think is something that happens a You know, people just kind of throw diagnoses and needs out there without really having an idea of exactly that's what it was. So being young thinking, I've endometriosis. What is this? You know, looking it up, being scared, and then getting surgery and them telling me it was a dermoid cyst, which is completely different, which was still kind of weird. But so that was just my first experience. And I just never had normal cycles really ever. And then going. Michelle (02:32) Wow. Yeah. Melissa Levy (02:41) into my college years. I was always an athlete, so I was personal trainer. I was working a lot, really stressed, a lot of stress on my body. So I just didn't feel good. I ended up getting Bell's palsy, which would not get better. And I was just on antibiotics and steroids for about a year or two years, just seeing tons of different doctors. Michelle (03:00) wow. Melissa Levy (03:03) not getting any answers. I think the thing that really frustrated me the most was going to a neurologist that I drove two hours to see and saw him for maybe five seconds. So it was just taking medicine, being on birth control, being on prednisone for that long, you feel terrible. So my gut health, my skin health, acne, hormones, nothing felt right. And I look back at pictures of myself from those years and Michelle (03:14) Wow. Melissa Levy (03:29) thinking I was healthy because I was a trainer and constantly working out and I had a lot of stress in my life as well. Looking back, I just looked unhealthy. I looked puffy and just all the medicines that they had me on, I didn't know any better until I got into the world of more holistic healing and learning more, being in that fitness and health. I was a personal trainer, group fitness instructor, yoga. I always wanted to help people and I think... Michelle (03:42) with her. Melissa Levy (03:54) this experience really helped me want to understand the body more and I know there's a better way of healing. So I was introduced into more like holistic health and acupuncture. And then from there, I just kind of fell in love with the medicine. when I started acupuncture school, as a student, you're able to get, you know, like $5 treatment. So we were getting treatment constantly and I was actually able to get off birth control and regulate my cycle, which took a little bit going off birth control. skin was... a hot mess, probably because being on the antibiotics for so long, not even thinking twice about it. But I think within like the three months of just Chinese medicine, herbs, and getting acupuncture pretty consistently, I was finally able to get at least a regular cycle and, you know, just been working on it and haven't really had too many hormonal issues, you know, since then, but it's just a lot. You learn a lot about yourself, I think. And in a way, it's a good thing because then it brought me to where I'm and I can have a lot of empathy for my patients and saying, hey, you I've been there, you know, I had the horrible migraines, I had the horrible skin and all things I just were told were normal. And last thing I'll say, I'll never forget. I remember I went, I was in acupuncture school. So I was learning a lot, as you know, you start learning things, you know, things that, you know, maybe aren't right that doctors sometimes may tell you. I remember I went to the OB and I was like, hey, you know, I was told I had, I had an ultrasound done and the tech told me, Hey, it looks like you PCOS. Once again, just throwing things out there. And I was like, so I brought it up to my doctor. was like, I had an ultrasound. said it looked like I had something called PCOS. She's like, no, you don't. You just probably have endometriosis. take some Advil and birth control. And that was my conversation. I, I just left and I was like, what in the world? was because I knew better at that point. And I just left. Michelle (05:21) Wow. my god. Wow. Yeah, so you could recognize, yeah, that wasn't cool. Melissa Levy (05:43) Never going back to this doctor again and not saying everyone's like that. But I think for women, just, we're so, we're just, we're told that, you know, that's just normal, you know, having pain from menstrual cycles, having hormonal balances, all that stuff's normal. you know, Advil and birth control are the solutions to everything. the more I learn and especially getting into functional medicine now, you know, having the acupuncture practice for several years, I've got more into functional medicine and I think that really connects the dots a lot for me too. I'm getting in hormone health and know, detoxification. So there's so much that as women that we're not even taught about our cycles or so I think just spreading the awareness, I think more women are wanting to know more and Michelle (06:28) Yeah, for sure. I know one of the things that really struck me when I was going to school. Of course, I had a very similar situation as you or story where I was given birth control pills as well. I think our stories are actually very common. A lot of people go through this. Yeah, I was so many. I've had so many guests, just guests tell me this, but then I've also had patients come to me and say that they've been put on birth control for this, that and the other. Melissa Levy (06:42) Really? Michelle (06:54) that had nothing to do with like their actual like root cause. Yeah, it's crazy. It really is crazy. being told, you know, or believing that certain menstrual cycle irregularities are normal. I think that that was the biggest aha for me when I was going to school is that certain things that we thought were normal, like having diarrhea if you have your period or constipation before or breast tenderness Melissa Levy (06:59) That's crazy. Mm -hmm. Michelle (07:20) PMS or even cramps that it's actually common. So we think it's normal, but it's actually not normal. So, so what are some of the things that kind of like you saw that you felt like, my God, like I can actually resolve Melissa Levy (07:26) Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of it was just the mood stuff too. Like I would turn into like just a different person. Like along with that, just hormonal stuff like PMS, just all that stuff that we're told is just normal. I just like dread it heading my cycle all the time. And so I think it gets to a point where it might not always be perfect. know, things happen, whether it's stress induced, you know, if you're having a month, you know, maybe some of those symptoms pop up and it's a way of your body telling you like, Hey, maybe, you know, check in with yourself, check in with your hormones. What's going on this month that some of these symptoms came back. And I think what you said is definitely true is I'll even do my interviews with my patients and I'll say, so how's your menstrual cycle? it's like perfect. It's normal. Okay, good. So what's that like? Tell me like, do you have PMS? yeah. Yeah. I always have PMS. had My breasts hurt so bad. I get really moody the first day and cry. I'm like, you know, so that we're told that that's still normal, which is still a thing, but yeah. Michelle (08:24) Mm Yeah, it becomes almost like a background thing that's just like, oh, that's just that. Like it's normal, it's okay. And I think another thing too is just having that something I frequently see, oh, I have a perfect 28 day cycle like textbook, so everything's perfect. But then you start to really dig in like, when are you ovulating? You know, is it early or you know, nobody really knows because they'll either just do LH or not really look into Melissa Levy (08:35) Yeah. Michelle (08:59) if it's confirmed ovulation, because you could still get a bleed. So there's a lot of those little intricacies that you often don't find in mainstream medicine. Melissa Levy (09:08) And I think that's another thing is like we're never taught to really understand our cycle. So when I am working with fertility patients, I'm saying, oh, are you ovulating every month? Yeah, on day 14. Okay. Are you checking your basal body temperature to see that rise in progesterone? No, no. Like I just, on day 14, I just ovulate. know, so it's, some people don't even understand that there are signs that our body tells And it's not just day 14 that we ovulate, which could really impact fertility because then we could be missing our fertility windows. So there's just that lack of education and how we need to understand. we're never taught, I mean, no one ever taught me that. I had no idea until I got into this medicine that, day 14, or what is cervical mucus? Am I having that? And sometimes I ask women, do you have cervical mucus? Oh, I have no idea. One of those things that were never, I mean, no one's taught me. And I just think there's not enough time, obviously, in appointments and with your regular OB. So I think that definitely impacts fertility for sure. Michelle (10:05) Yeah, I often find too that people don't even really know much about their blood because they use tampons the whole time. That's another thing that I often talk about because it is, first of all, I don't love shoving anything up there. When your body's trying to release, you're basically putting a stopper in a sense. I mean, of course it doesn't stop, it absorbs, but still it's not quite the same. Melissa Levy (10:12) Mmm, yeah. Yeah. Michelle (10:29) as really letting it out and letting it flow and letting that gravitational pull release, whatever, not stagnate it. But if you have to, if you must, I'm not saying everything's 100%, but seeing what the blood looks like actually can tell you so much about your period or tell your acupuncture so much, but even you, there's a lot of information out Melissa Levy (10:36) Yeah, of course. Of course, mean, once again, lot of my patients, unless they've been coming to me for a while, they know to look. Otherwise they're like, you said, I have no idea. I use a tampon. Are there clots? I have no idea. know, it's those things that, know, until, unless you've had acupuncture, you're probably not looking for it. And it tells us. a lot. Our body gives us these signs and symptoms, the tongue, the pulse, the color of the nails, the skin. So all those things give us lot of information, especially the blood. What does it look like? How many days are you bleeding? Are you clots? it spotting? Are you bleeding a lot? Little, is it scanty? So definitely that's a great point. And same thing with the tampons. It's a really good point about stopping and not stagnating the blood. Michelle (11:34) Yeah. And I think that because our life is so busy, it's like, you know, it's almost like too busy and really kind of, it's important to allow yourself that rest if you can, with the menstrual cycle. I think that we don't really get that accommodation often just in the world. But yeah, you know, so you see a lot of those kinds of things just from asking people questions and how did you decide you wanted to work with fertility? What was your your initial pull. Melissa Levy (11:59) Yeah, so I was. pretty much a general seeing a little bit of everything. And I still do, but I think women's health is something that I've always had that love for just because there is such a lack of it and such a need for it. And then I think once I had my son, it kind of gave me that extra like fuel and that like just to learn more and more to, because it's such an amazing love to be a mom. And I want to be able just to give that to as many people and help as many women as I can. So I think that is the thing that really kind pushed it to kind of dive all into fertility. What all can I learn? How many people can I help? And what is going on? And why is our fertility issues seem like it's kind of becoming more common. And it's one of those things where like cycle issues are an issue or they're prevalent. But now it seems like same thing fertility. It's just like, yeah, I'm having trouble getting pregnant. So it seems one of those things that's just becoming a normal common thing, which I think is sad. Michelle (12:51) Yeah, yeah, for sure. What are some of the things that you see just clinically? Like what are some of the things that you notice that might be contributing to people having trouble conceiving? Melissa Levy (13:03) Yeah, definitely. So I see stress, definitely, as you probably know. know, we've been, acupuncture has been saying for thousands and thousands of years, the connection between our uterus and our shin, which is our mind. So most women, we have a lot of responsibility. Michelle (13:06) Mm -hmm. Right, and just if people don't know, the heart houses the mind. So the heart houses Shen, which is kind of like the spiritual aspect. Well, spirit, mind, combined. Melissa Levy (13:26) Mm -hmm. Yeah, and it's so we've known this for about 3 ,500 years or more. But I think nowadays women are living in a more stressful environment. There's so many responsibilities that we have. Some women have multiple kids already and they're juggling work and family and. just the pressure. So there's definitely a lot more stress. And if your body's in that fight or flight, you know, it's not going to prioritize, you know, reproduction. If your body thinks, my gosh, I'm in immediate danger. Your body's not like, okay, well it's great time to get pregnant. So I think definitely stress is something I see. I see gut health definitely. you know, so many things come down to our gut and they say, you know, they talk about, you know, our Michelle (13:51) Yes. I want to talk about that. That's a good, yeah, it's important. Melissa Levy (14:10) hormones or our body kind of being like that bathtub analogy where, you know, our gut is kind of like that sewer line kind of taking everything out. And if things are clogged up and backed up due to underlying gut infections, which I see very common and, you know, from a Chinese medicine perspective, we look at that as the dampness, the spleen. So the other thing I find so cool and interesting is, you know, Chinese medicine has been talking about all this stuff for 3500 years. And then when you learn like more of the conventional and functional medicine, it's the same stuff, you know, just in different terminology. So gut health is so important for fertility. And then from a Chinese medicine perspective, we talk about the spleen and the stomach, and it has a huge relationship to our fertility and our overall health. So that's deficient. And we've known that forever. So it's one of those things where I think gut health is so common and such a big topic right now. But it's not a new thing. I think it's something that we've known for so long, Michelle (14:53) Yeah. Melissa Levy (15:04) Now we're recognizing, wow, our gut is really, important. And so I think that's huge. Michelle (15:10) for sure. I will say too, like the gut mind connection, also that's spleen and stomach, they govern thoughts. So literally our thoughts can impact our digestion. Like if there are stressful thoughts, overwork, overworrying, that can impact our digestion. But now they're seeing it's fascinating because I've been researching it, the enteric system, which is your gut nervous system. And then the CNS, which is essential nervous system, which is connected to the brain. Melissa Levy (15:17) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Michelle (15:36) And so how your thoughts can impact your via the vagus nerve, like there's this back and forth bi -directional communication. And it's fascinating how like Chinese medicine has been saying this forever. And now we're like literally seeing that they're seeing that people with certain types of mental disorders have a different gut microbiome than... Melissa Levy (15:49) I know. Mm -hmm, so interesting. Michelle (16:00) It's fascinating. And then also they're saying that people that meditate for a long time have a different gut microbiome that's more diverse and more rich, enriched. Melissa Levy (16:10) Yeah, I mean, our mind is, I you talk about that so much, and it's like, how much can we stress it? It plays a big role in, it's sometimes not something that's easy to overcome, and it takes sometimes time to maybe make some lifestyle changes or be able to do things that, sometimes you obviously can't change your environment around you if it's situational, but do things for your body that can kind of offset some of that stress. And then also, working with the gut. Michelle (16:34) Yes. Melissa Levy (16:36) going to be really important. it's kind of like that vicious cycle of, if your guts impaired, then it can affect your mind and your mind is going to affect your gut. So it kind of just rotates through. So, you know, when we talk about holistic medicine, we're talking about not just singling in on one thing. We're looking at everything. We're looking at the gut, right? Because if you just want one, you know, you're forgetting about everything else and everything is so connected. So you have to look at everything. Michelle (16:54) Yes. Yeah. It is, without a doubt. It's a, cause you were just mentioning two like major things, which is stress and then the gut. But those things are interconnected. They're like pieces of a puzzle. And that's, that's really the beauty I think of Chinese medicine is that, and also functional medicine is that it looks at things holistically, like in all the different parts. And I love that you also do functional medicine and testing. And because I think it's really important to really look beneath the hood. and see what does your gut microbiome look like. So what could people get from like say a gut testing? Melissa Levy (17:37) so much. So your whole gut microbiome, can tell us so much. So what I see a lot is I'll have a patient come in and they'll say, hey, you know, I'm not feeling good. My hormones are a mess. I can't get pregnant, but my blood work, everything looks fine. So then, you know, I look at it. Yes, everything looks fine. Yeah. And then as an acupuncturist, we take two seconds. We look at their tongue and pulse and we can say, whoa, there's definitely a lot going on. And Michelle (17:53) So then they get the unexplained infertility diagnosis, right? And then they come to you. Melissa Levy (18:04) I like to order things like the GI map, which definitely is my favorite test by far, because it doesn't just say yes or no, you have something. It will give you the value. So it's qualitative PCR. So it looks at all the gut microbiomes, looks at parasites. It looks at H. pylori, which is so common. Yeah, so our gut microbiome. And it's not even like looking at... know, what can we do to fix it? So sometimes I've had patients, looks at beta glucuronidase. It looks at calprotectin levels. it looks at so many different things to see if there's any gut inflammation in the body. is there dysbiosis? Is there maldigestion? Maybe you're not absorbing all the nutrients. So there's definitely a lot. And, if people even have cycle issues, I've had patients who have irregular cycles and we don't do anything else, but do a GI map and heal the gut. And their cycle regulates by itself on that. So there's so Michelle (18:53) That's amazing. Melissa Levy (18:54) much if you have someone that can actually read the GI map and knows how to understand it and what the patterns are, it is so beneficial. So I really love the GI map. It could tell us so much about the gut. Michelle (19:04) Amazing. And so what are some of the things or implementations and just to kind of give us examples of different conditions. And clearly this is not a one size fits all, which is why you have to test. Cause you could see like what's going on specific to the patient. Melissa Levy (19:10) Yeah. Of course. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I mean, I would say some things that I see a lot on the, just on the GI map, for example, like I'll see H. pylori a lot. And then with H. pylori, you'll see things like strep and staph infections as well in the gut. And what that does a lot of times is cause hypochlorhydrial low stomach acid, which is sometimes called things like parasites. You're not killing off things if you have low stomach acid and then maldigestion issues. So just doing things like mindful eating. So taking time and chewing your food, digestive. enzymes are really important. And then I love antimicrobials like olive leaf and oregano. They're really great. Olive leaf is antioxidant. It's antimicrobial, antiparasitic, anti -yeast. So that's something I use a lot with my patients that have any type of dysbiosis or overgrowth or opportunistic growth in their GI map. Michelle (20:08) Have you heard of Mastic for... Yeah. Rachael. Melissa Levy (20:10) Yeah, mastectomy. Yes, that's really common. And usually if you have, it depends like what bacteria or overgrowth you have. For example, like H. pylori typically means at least like three types of urge to kill because it is very stubborn. So usually using mastectomy, leaf, oregano, black cumin seed oil is amazing. And that is good against H. pylori. It also helps regulate blood sugar, which is another huge thing I see with fertility issues is blood sugar regulation. That's another thing that can affect our cortisol levels and our hormones. So I put a lot of people on black cumin seed oil as well, and that's antioxidant as well. So those are things that I definitely recommend for things, but it really depends on what bacteria, what overgrowth, what patterns you're showing. But just common things I see is like hypochloridia, low stomach acid. I see a lot of like dysbiosis, leaky gut, and then really just taking the measured measures and really just putting it into phases what can we do, remove the gut infections and then build up that gut wall and build up that diverse microbiome again. So it takes time. It's not something that happens overnight. But then I also think looking at why, why do we have this in the first place? Why do we have these gut infections? Why is it stress? it our diet, environmental things as well? Michelle (21:19) Right, right. Yeah, you think of like Sleen Yang deficiency because the fire, know, that digestive fire really is in Ayurvedic medicine, Agni, fire is really what kind of kills off all of those opportunistic bacteria and infections. But if we don't have that digestive fire, all the things that we learn about don't eat ice cream, don't have ice cold drinks, because what you're doing is you're actually diluting that fire. Melissa Levy (21:28) Yeah, exactly. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. never thought about that as like the that looking at that as like the stomach acid and that's such a great, great way to look at that. And that's the thing I always come back and find these awesome like relationships between Chinese medicine and conventional or functional medicine. It's like, it's all the same stuff. We just called it different things in a sense. it's, and now that we've all this research that shows and validates everything we've known for a long time. So I do like, you know, combining the two of those in such a great. Michelle (22:06) Yeah. Yes. Melissa Levy (22:17) great practice to be able to do Michelle (22:18) Yeah, no doubt. when it comes to certain conditions, have you had people where you suggested, okay, you you'd need antibiotics for this because it is kind of like really strong where they sometimes they need a stronger one. And then with that kind of help to navigate and kind of work it out with probiotics. Melissa Levy (22:38) Yeah, so I haven't had to really refer out for any antibiotics because most herbs and supplements usually are. There's research that shows that they are pretty good at eradicating most things and they have multiple functions and a more broad spectrum. But then, yeah, then adding in the probiotics and different types like espilarity is really good at helping with H. pylori and then doing, that's another thing I love about the GI map is it'll let you know like what's overgrown, what's deficient. So let's say you're a Michelle (22:49) Mm -hmm. Mm Melissa Levy (23:04) huge overgrowth of lactobacillus because of maybe hypochondria, right? You're not breaking down the food, so then it starts fermenting and you get that overgrowth patterns, which we see a lot. Then you probably might not want to take lactobacillus probiotic. You probably want to do something a little bit more diverse. Michelle (23:22) Right, or maybe a spore -based, right? A spore -based. Melissa Levy (23:24) Yeah, or like a school -based probiotic, which are getting more popular now. But then another thing I see a lot too, which I've been seeing a lot more recently is there's something called acromantia. And I see a lot of people that have none detected at all in their gut. And that's a really good thing. And that helps with our gut mucosal lining. And also they show that people have low acromantia, have more things like insulin resistance and obesity. And that's something I keep seeing a lot is there's... Michelle (23:38) wow. Wow. Melissa Levy (23:52) like zero detected in the gut. Michelle (23:53) Wow, that's so interesting. You know, I have learned a lot that some of the ingredients that we see in processed foods actually shift the gut microbiome dramatically. And I wonder, I mean, if it's like that or toxins that we're exposed to, I mean, there are things that are really literally like we don't even realize have a role or play a role in our Melissa Levy (24:04) Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. And I think another thing is like we, that I see a lot too, is we get into like routines of food and we'll eat the same food over and over again. And I remember like Chinese medicine school, they talk about that. They say your body doesn't want to eat the same thing over and over again, like mix it up. Don't eat, you know, chicken and broccoli for every, you know, every lunch the whole week, because your body wants that diversity. And now we see that with the gut microbiome is like the more diverse you eat, the more different foods you're eating, the more diverse your gut microbiome. You don't want to keep eating. Michelle (24:34) Yeah, it's Melissa Levy (24:44) the same seven foods all week long, you and I know some people kind of get into that routine of things is that's all they eat. Michelle (24:48) Yes. Right, and they talk about eating for seasons too, because during that season, whatever that weather or the climate, your body's reacting and what will grow around you, the food that grows typically is there to balance that Melissa Levy (24:54) yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, like the seasons and that's something I mean, I think a lot of people don't do as well as eating up the seasons and it's one of the things we don't think about. Michelle (25:06) fascinating. you don't think about it because you don't even know because everything gets shipped from everywhere. So you're like, I don't know what's growing now, like here, you know, and I think that that that's like another thing that that and also the endocrine disruptors, all these things that you have to do a little more homework for, but it's not as intimidating as it originally sounds. It seems a lot worse. This is actually why I will say worth hiring a fertility coach. because you have a lot of that extra time, like all of that is done for you. And, you know, that's the benefit. Melissa Levy (25:44) Yeah, for sure. And I also think, like everything's so individualized too. Like what might be good for one person, you know, isn't the main focus that someone else needs. There's so much and it can definitely be overwhelming. Like when you start to think about it, like detoxification and basal body temperature and ovulation, the food, it's like, sometimes that stresses people out and it's like, we don't want this to be stressful. And I also have had patients that'd be like, Michelle (26:00) Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Levy (26:07) you know, they're like, well, this person get pregnant and they're not eating, you know, super, super healthy, but everyone's bodies are different. You know, we have epigenetics and different stress and everyone's bodies can handle things differently and like that toxic load. And so it's hard to compare yourself to someone else, which is never a good thing to Michelle (26:14) Right. Yeah. It's true. no, absolutely. somebody might be less tolerant for one thing, but more tolerant for another. And that might be completely opposite from the next person. So you just never know. You really need to like honor your own like body's personality type, I like to kind of say, because it has its own signature, its own personality. Like everything is unique, you know, even though we have the same makeup, you know, we all have like the same organs Melissa Levy (26:34) Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Michelle (26:53) of but each person responds differently really to food, environment. I love the saying, one man's is another man's poison, it's could be something incredibly healthy, but one person could be allergic to it and have a horrible reaction to Melissa Levy (27:02) yeah. Yeah, exactly. even going, I always go back to Chinese medicine, but no, it's like food therapy and you know, I have patients come in and they're like, I look at their tongue and pulse and I'm like, well, you shouldn't be eating these foods. They're like, yeah, but they're so healthy, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, they are healthy foods, but not healthy for you at this time of what you have going on in your body. If you've got a heat and inflammation and you're eating spicy, hot, warming foods, you're going to feel a little worse, right? Versus someone who's maybe a little bit more deficient. Michelle (27:35) bright. Melissa Levy (27:37) and really needs more of that warming food. it always comes down to individuality, whereas everything similar is yes, we want to make sure we have a good healthy gut and blood flow and mind, but everyone's situation is going to be a little Michelle (27:50) totally. Like it makes me think of like the somebody who's really thin and like super cold all the time, but all they want to eat is raw foods and salads and like juice. You know, all of that has such a cold nature. You're just exacerbating like the symptoms and making it worse. Melissa Levy (28:06) yeah. Yeah. It's not as people don't want to hear that. I'm like, well, stop juicing. And I'm like, well, it's so wealthy. going eat a little bit more soups in it. And it's not like you can ever do it, but it's all about balance. And I think, you know, things always come back to balance. And we live in a world now where everything's such an extreme, we're either completely vegan or completely keto or completely, you know, one thing and it's, we're working out so hard and won't do anything or we're not working out at all. So it's how can you find that balance Michelle (28:17) Yes. Right, yeah. Melissa Levy (28:34) eating a whole diet and maybe doing more yin or calm or exercises during certain part of the cycle and then doing more intense if you want. everything comes back to balance, which is something I think is hard. Michelle (28:47) Yeah, no doubt. But it's an art. then once you figure it out, because I think that we're primed for it, we're designed for balance, our bodies know, and our bodies communicate with us when things are out of balance. If we're too hot to want to cool down and vice versa. So it knows what to do. It's always communicating. Sometimes we want to ignore that communication. Over time, we stop hearing it, but it's kind Melissa Levy (29:03) We have. Michelle (29:11) coming back to it is a lot easier than I think a lot of people think because we're primed for it. We're designed to be connected to that. So I know that you work with a lot of people online. So you're able to basically have consultations with people and do testing of all kinds, like different functional testing based on that either customize, but also that you have a program for people who may not commit to like Melissa Levy (29:35) yeah. Michelle (29:37) a one -to -one, but they can also just take your course as Melissa Levy (29:41) Yeah, of course. So, yeah, so I wanted to try to make a course that was like great for like good for anyone, right? So it's easy to understand, but it kind of covers a little bit of everything. A lot of education, like I said, a lot of it is sometimes women don't understand their cycles or even know when they're ovulating. So there's modules that talk about cycle education. How can we, you know, increase our sperm or egg qualities to talk about the man and the woman talking functional tests. So if you're like, hey, I want to get some testing, but I don't want to work with someone or I don't know anyone or my doctor won't run these, you can go online to our Rupa store and just put in your own order. You know, I always recommend obviously going over with it with a doctor, but I give you the option, the option of like functional ranges and the standard ranges, which are going to be different. Functional ranges are like optimal where we want you to really be. And we talk about yoga, mindfulness. supplements. So we talk about a lot in the program. It's self -paced, which is so nice. So had people say, I love it because I can go back and listen to it over and over and over again. And so it was a really fun to make and I love being able to provide that information to people. Michelle (30:50) Awesome. And I actually got to see behind the scenes, look at it and it is really, really very thorough. It has a lot of information, really, really well done. I have to say, I really admire you as a practitioner. think you are amazing at your craft, like truly. Really so honored to have been able to work with you and like get to know you, but you really are amazing at what you do. I think that part of it Melissa Levy (30:58) Thank you. Michelle (31:15) just being really passionate, but also having that drive to keep learning and learning and learning. And I think that that's what keeps us going as practitioners. Melissa Levy (31:23) Yeah, definitely. thank you. So sweet. Yeah. We love what you do. You just want to keep learning and it's fun. Michelle (31:30) It is fun, right? Well, that's what you want to find. You want to find a coach or has fun doing what they're doing because that's that's ultimately it's a good sign that they love what they do and they're good at it. So, Melissa, such a pleasure having you. If people want to find you, how can they find you? Melissa Levy (31:37) Yeah. Yeah, of Yes, thank So I actually have a clinic in Jacksonville. Then I also work online with people with Health by Melissa .com or Integrative Wellness Center of Jacksonville .com. do virtual and in -person visits. Michelle (32:01) Awesome. Melissa, thank you so much for coming on. was such a pleasure talking to Melissa Levy (32:04) Yes, thank you. Thank you.
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EP 302 From a Near Death Experience to a Trauma Healer | Dr. Allison Snowden
10 set· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Dr. Allison Snowden. Dr. Allison Snowden is a renowned healer, coach, medical intuitive, and Theta® Healing Expert with over 15 years of experience serving thousands of clients and students from around the world. She offers highly sought-after services including in-person and virtual healing sessions, group sessions, and retreats. Dr. Snowden also trains other healers and medical professionals through her signature programs and courses within the Awakening Institute. She holds a Doctorate of Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine from the Pacific College of Health & Sciences in San Diego, CA, and has advanced training through the Theta® Healing Institute. Dr. Snowden continues her professional development through regularly attending courses, workshops, and seminars. Her diverse, multi-disciplinary experiences in healing, yoga, integrative medicine, traditional medicine, and Theta® Healing enable her to help patients prevent and recover from trauma-related damage by identifying and releasing the root causes of illness and challenges. Episode Takeaways: Trauma can have long-lasting effects on the body and mind, and it is important to address and heal it. Reconnecting with our bodies and listening to their messages is essential for healing and well-being. Theta Healing is a powerful technique that combines belief system work and trauma healing. Healing trauma and shifting belief systems can lead to embodiment, empowerment, and a more fulfilling life. Societal beliefs and conditioning can have a significant impact on women's bodies and hormones. Understanding one's own trauma history is crucial for women's health and fertility. The nervous system plays a role in storing information and can affect overall well-being. Tapping into divine wisdom and living in one's truth can lead to healing and empowerment. Website: https://drsnowden.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drallisonsnowden/ For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Snowden. So nice to meet you. And as I'm sitting here, I see you. Not everybody's going to be seeing this because it's a podcast, but I see a beautiful flower of life behind Dr. Snowden. And we both are like really obsessed with that symbol. So we'll definitely talk about that. But before we get started, I would love for you to introduce yourself. Dr. Allison Snowden (00:02) Hi. Michelle (00:28) Give us your background, how you got inspired to do the work that you do today. Dr. Allison Snowden (00:34) Great, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me on here. My name's Dr. Allison Snowden. I'll just go with the formal and then I'll get into the real juicy stuff, right? I have my doctorate and master's in Chinese integrative medicine. I also did massage therapy for about 10 years as well. and also did a lot of energy work training, Reiki, all of the ones. Like I think my whole 20s and 30s, I was just doing extra seminars. So I definitely am an education junkie because, know, in my, just in my value system, really what we take out of this world is experiences, knowledge, and like our consciousness. And so I really value investing in my education, but then also just in really upleveling my consciousness. And my journey as a healer, think, I feel like I was born, I was born into a healing family. I was born, my mom's a nurse, my dad's a physician. So I feel like it's just a part of my blood and my I feel like my first initiation in that was my sister had childhood cancer when I was six. And so she was really sick for a year. And I think that's just when that part of me was activated of like, how can I help her? What is going on? And also just really just wanting to understand. why the human body isn't working, what is going on. So I think that was the first initiation. And I also, it was very hard for me because I was a very empathetic, very sensitive child, very shy. People that I meet now, you my 40s, they're like, you're shy. And I was like, yeah, I worked really hard on it. And so it was really... Just seeing her go through chemo, she survived. And then for about 10 years, she would just get sick. And so they didn't know she had an autoimmune deficiency at that point. But I just saw her getting sick, missing school. She had to be on IV antibiotics. And I was just like, why? This just seems like it's not getting anywhere. Like it's just the cyclical thing. I also was mortified at how people treated her sometimes. I'm very mortified on how people treat chronic pain patients and just people in general sometimes. I mean, let's just be honest, like the lack of sometimes kindness and compassion just for people that are going through something, just for the normal person sometimes isn't there. And that like, I saw, I witnessed that as an observer. you know, going to get my sister's homework and my sister always looked beautiful, even though she had cancer or she had, you know, like, you know, high mono levels or, and so like a lot of people just didn't have like a scarcity of compassion. So that was very, that, that was very impressionable on me at that age. It actually really mortified me. because I never thought that there was like there's always endless compassion. is, you know, how does it hurt someone to give someone compassion? So at a young age, I didn't really understand that. And then I just saw a lot of death. And so I was like, in this kind of, you know, I grew up in like, you know, upper middle class, you know, society where it looked like our life was, you know, picture perfect. And it was, I had a lot of love in my family, You know, my sister was continuously sick. They didn't know. And then everyone who she went through chemo with was just dropping dead. And so there was just a lot of death. So I started to pray to God. was like, I want to understand what the hell life is about. Cause I see, you know, it's, it's something to see when you see your sister who's getting a spinal tap done and they didn't, you know, use any anesthesia. Michelle (04:25) wow. Dr. Allison Snowden (04:42) and you see how all of this stuff, it's just like micro traumas. You see this and you're like, what is going on? So I just prayed and my cousin died around when I was 14, just in an accident like that. So it was just kind of like all these things. And I think I just had an existential crisis and I was just praying very hard. I didn't know about manifestation back then. I didn't know any of those principles, but I just was like, God, show me what life is about. God, what happens when you die? I need to know what like I just had this overwhelming need to understand. So a year and a half later, sister is yet again in the hospital and they just find out that she has an autoimmune disease that was associated with her. cancer, was Burkett's lymphoma and it was associated with a CD4 immune disease. And so they were like, do not go on spring break. My parents had already paid for it. I already had a friend coming. So we went and I'm not going to get into like the details of that, but I had a near near death experience. I was assaulted and then run over by a motor vehicle that was going about 60 miles per hour. Michelle (06:00) my God. Wow. Dr. Allison Snowden (06:01) So I had a near -death experience. I, you know, shot out, like, if anyone's listening to this, I know it's not a death podcast, but I Michelle (06:11) No, no, talk about it because I actually find this really interesting and I think we can learn a Dr. Allison Snowden (06:16) The, I, cause my cousin died of a violent, you know, pretty catastrophic motor vehicle accident. And I always worried that he was in pain and he died alone. And like, I just like created this drama in my head, like how horrible it was for him. And I'm just here to say that that doesn't happen. It's very quick. I didn't feel a thing. And, I went up into this unconditional love of just pure bliss, love, all knowing, homelessness. And I was, I always say to people, that was the best vacation I've ever taken, you know, like literally just unconditional love. It's beyond time and space. and I felt like I was just restored and we remembered a lot of things when I was up there. but it was part of my path, I think to, be a healer and really to understand trauma and also how to heal it and also especially with women as well. And so I had all of these different downloads up there and I decided to go back and when I was almost, and when you decide it's like faster than light, know, it just is like you're in your body. Michelle (07:14) Yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (07:29) I was like, as I was going in, that voice of the divine was like, bring this energy down to earth. And I was like, what? I mean, I would be sitting in the hospital and like, am I supposed, like, can you like translate that for me? Like, can you like give me a to -do list? Like, what do you mean? Right? So, you know, I come back. There is a whole drama of getting me back home. I had to have emergency surgery and then I was in the hospital, in and out of the hospital for about three years. And then I had like more years of just, you know, just nutrient deficiencies that no one found because I was not going to a functional medicine doctor or someone who really took time. had a thyroid condition, no one diagnosed. I just, The lack of care in the aftermath of that really made me suffer. And it's not that anyone had any bad intentions. It's just like in our medical system, it's like once the bones are healed, which took three and a half years, which was insane. So many orthopedic surgeries, because my bones wouldn't heal, because they were so badly broken. Like once they were healed, they're like, you're good. And I'm Michelle (08:32) It's the system. Dr. Allison Snowden (08:48) well, what happened to my last three years of my life? And then, I felt like that's when all the emotional stuff came up because before I was just like, so focused on getting, you know, you know, let's heal this leg, the arm, the, know, like all of this stuff, learning how to walk again, how many times, you know? And so then it was like, Whoa, just what happened. And so, and that's when like a lot of, you know, I mean, depression, PTSD, all of that stuff. you know, like, I think, like, the psychiatrists said, they're like, you know, I was crying. And I felt like I was grieving and they're like, more than three weeks. well, you're depressed, all this stuff. you know, I think it's there's a there's a whole conversation that can be had around the medicalization of just life events and you know, how that intersects and how we can support, but how does that repress it? Because I really feel like when our body, when we grieve, when we cry, there's such an, it's, you know, like in Chinese medicine, it's like the tears are the, like, the liquid of the liver. It's like there's change coming. So I really feel like, yeah, that could be a conversation there, but I just was like a mess. had chronic pain. was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, depression, PTSD, anxiety. then I was told I was always going to be in pain. So that was like my first mission to get myself out of physical pain. And that took a while. And I also wanted to run again. And everyone said I was crazy. And I actually did that. about 10 years, but it was great. The thing that I think I really wanna like share, and I always try to like distill, cause I always like to share when I'm talking about my story, cause my story is super dramatic and I know this, the power that like we all come from that source energy and we all have access to it. And we all have the right to have that, you know, that that connection, that direct connection. And if I can do it, you can do it. You know, I think sometimes people are like, well, I can't because I didn't have a near death experience or da da da da. And I'm like, no, you can't, you know. And I really feel Michelle (10:52) and Dr. Allison Snowden (11:13) in modern times, we've really got disconnected, with our bodies. We've really gotten disconnected with our own power because we've outsourced our healing to other healers, to a system. And we've really, as, us women, like our, we've, we've our body and our power has been dispersed. And so I really feel that as a woman. because I am a woman, some people are like, ask me about like men's journeys, men healing. I'm like, I don't know, I'm a woman and like, I know what I know. And I've had trauma, I've had sexual trauma and I think women as women, we need, we are much more prone, like sexual violence is very. is one of the most costly things for a woman to go through just on a psychological level of recovery. And also, I think our whole spiritual journey as women, this is just my view, is really reclaiming our power and our safety and reclaiming our body too. And what happens is with trauma or with sexual assault something or even just emotional abandonment, there's like this unsafety wound that comes up. And if you know the chakras, that's kind of in the first and the second chakra. And if you don't have your power, you don't have your safety, you're not anchored, you're not grounded. And then you have people that always are ruminating, overthinking, trying to Michelle (12:36) Hmm. Mm Dr. Allison Snowden (12:49) figure out all the little details of the plan before they get started, that fear is there. so I've just been on a journey. I started practicing doing massage while I did massage. And Ray, he started teaching that, then went to grad school. And I was always working through that. And then I started my practice in 2013. And I've always just been a healer healing myself and then sharing it with others. know, like I always feel like I'm, I'm just so pro client, pro patient, because I resonate more with that role than I do like, you know, Dr. Allison, you know, like I'm, I am in the trenches with, I've been in the trenches and I've been really bad physically, mentally, emotionally. and I got through it and I tried a lot of things that didn't work and I went on a lot of U -turns, you know, but I kept on going. And so I feel like I'm just a really good resource for anyone that has, because I've just been studying medicine and been in -depth training on many different platforms, functional medicine, theta healing. subconscious reprogramming, other subconscious reprogramming stuff, and then functional medicine, and then Chinese medicine, and then also massage and energy medicine. all of our energy, our muscle, you know, our physical being and our energetic being, these are all interconnected. And also really, I've done a lot training and then also research into, you know, nervous system and how do we heal trauma? and what does that feel like and how is that, experience and how is that experience within my body and how does that shift my hormones? How does that shift my perception of reality of reality now and, you know, reality there and, and how does that affect you know, my mood and my thoughts. So, I felt like I was like thrown into the flat fire of just, you know, a mess of just, you know, medical, I mean, it was a medical miracle, I survived. And another miracle that like I didn't have brain damage or anything like that. So, But I'm just really just on a mission to really help people heal faster and more effectively and really reclaiming their power and also reclaiming their power and their relationship with their body. I think when we have trauma and this can be emotional trauma, can be physical, sexual, a lot of women internalize it because maybe there's not an outlet for anger or maybe that's Conditioned into us and so it gets turned inward and that is like, you know, then there's like that inner war And so I just really love working with women helping them reconnect to their power and and to their healing potential and their body and the wisdom of their body Because Michelle (15:50) Mm Dr. Allison Snowden (16:07) You know, our body has so much to tell us if we just listen. And I think just modern culture, you just because of the indoctrination of marketing or whatever, social media, know, all of that, you know, has really disconnected us from like the amazing wonderment of our body. And You know, our bodies are our best friends. They are our co -pilots. You know, it is it is the sacred vessel that is holding our soul and it's constantly communicating with us. And in fact, my body and my soul, like when I need a message, my body and my soul are working together to get my attention. You know, they're not my body is never in pain just to I think one of the things that humans do and I've done Michelle (16:46) Mm Yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (16:55) is like we get mad at our body because we think our body is falling apart just to spite us. Or just, and I just have to tell you that there's nothing more far from the truth. Like our body is like, I had this, I had this moment where I couldn't sleep because I was so uncomfortable in my body. Like after going through that many surgeries, Michelle (17:02) Mm -hmm. Dr. Allison Snowden (17:21) You know, I just didn't, couldn't feel comfortable in my body. I was in pain and my leg was hurting and I was just like, you know, I mean, I'm like, and, I heard this voice that was like, put your hands on your leg. And I was like, okay. So I like put my hands on my leg and, and my, my body started talking to me and was like, Hey, miss. Stop hating me. I did not do this to you. I this happened to us This is You know horrible for me I'm working 500 million times harder than right leg over there and all you can all you can do is like Send me hatred and how ugly I look because it was like skinned and looked very You know, I couldn't move my And she's like, you think I ruined your life? I did not ruin your life. This happened to us. So stop sending me hatred. And if you want me to heal faster, and if you want to help the process, send me love. And I was like, whoa. So I call my left leg the sassy left leg. It always tells me the truth, you know? And I think a lot of us Michelle (18:33) wow. That's profound. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (18:45) badly to our body. I I guess it's somewhat natural if something hurts maybe to get angry at it. But I guess really just to our body is in pain for a reason. There is it's a signal and your body has a language with you. And if you can get beyond that, your body is supposed to perform at like 100 percent no matter what, no matter what you do to Michelle (19:00) Yes. Dr. Allison Snowden (19:12) that is the internal dialogue or how you treat it or how you, you know, fill it up with and, you know, treat it like sleep, you know, self care or lack of self care. You know, our ego just thinks where it's just supposed to perform and just always be like on without like any, any like check -in. And so I think just there is such a magical world of your relationship, like you within you and you within your body, you know, and like, my body whenever I've been pain free the second time, because I had a weird septic infection like six years ago. That was another weird medical thing that I went through. But I've been pain free from that for about four years. And anytime there's something going on with my body, I'm like, what, What do I need to do? What are you trying to say to me? And also going into like what I do full time now, I was in functional medicine and Chinese medicine for a good 10 years. And then I started to notice, you know, with like my pain patients, my patients with autoimmune or, you know, menstrual stuff. There's like all these different things and we were pretty good at getting them better, but there's a subset of people who weren't getting better. And I could see in their eyes, they wanted to get better. And there was just this like, there's something that I wasn't getting. And I was like, this is nervous system, this is trauma stuff. And so I took a theta healing class, and my first theta healing class, and I was like, wow, I'm home, like home as in the vibration of when I crossed over. And I just Michelle (20:43) Yes. Dr. Allison Snowden (20:55) felt so much better. And so I took another class, another class, and then I like took all the classes and the teacher trainings in like two years, which was like crazy fast track. also, and so with theta healing is, it's the, and I practice trauma -informed theta healing because some people that practice theta healing or energy medicine or Reiki or that, they're trained to understand what trauma, disassociation, what different things are like. And that lack of knowledge can sometimes create maybe a gap in how they see the client. And a lot of untrained, even acupuncturists, medical doctors, and you'd be surprised how many psychotherapists aren't trauma -informed, which I was like, wait, shouldn't they all be? that can actually like that ignorance can end up hurting the client, know, blaming them in some way, insinuating some way that they don't want to get better. And that's like so far beyond what the reality is. But with Theta Healing, it's the intersection. So between belief systems, old that's stored in the body. And so it's a technique to really release these old imprints that are in our organs. You know, if you've had sexual trauma, it's in the tissue, you know, of our second chakra, like our body holds memory. And it's an intersection with that and belief systems and, you know, emotional know, unconscious emotional patterns that just come up. And I think this is, it is such a powerful access because belief systems and your consciousness and how you feel and your inner state, your like inner atmosphere is everything. Because if your inner state, if you, you know, the thing with with trauma is people are Michelle (22:49) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (22:56) It's in the past. Actually, guys, newsflash, if you have unresolved trauma, it's actually not in the past. It's operating as it is alive now. And this is not the fault of the person who was traumatized. It's because how the brain operates, because we, you know, I know I exist beyond this physical body as this energetic being that doesn't need a body because I crossed over, Michelle (23:08) Yes. Dr. Allison Snowden (23:24) You know, right now I'm in a body and I'm in a nervous system and I have a brain. And I think that was what was so peculiar to me because I had this enlightened experience about, you know, fear is not real. You know, all that really matters is loving yourself and loving others. And then I go totally down to this 15 year old body and I get anchored back in and my soul gets anchored back into this nervous system that's like, oh no, it's not about love. I couldn't sleep. My body was traumatized. So I was just like, I felt slightly imprisoned by that trauma. Because I knew how beautiful life was and what my soul was capable of. I had I had to face and heal the trauma and it was a very, I tried everything. So I feel like I've been my first patient always and my first testing ground. And so if something works for me, I'm like, you know, I want to share it because like, I know, and I think when you've suffered in, you know, a lot like, I always said, if my suffering, if I get to help other people and their suffering, and I see it, I see it now every day, and it's one of the most amazing things about my job. You see people's affect and just their whole state change and their whole world opened up when they heal old traumas, old belief systems. And we have so many belief systems and programs, we've been programs that are operating below our consciousness, and it's just on automatic. And I really do think that this is also the kind of meeting point between healing and also enlightenment, healing and total embodiment, like embodying your power, being in your body. I mean, really in your body. Because I gotta tell you, if you've had any trauma, emotional trauma, medical trauma, you're probably not totally present. You're not totally grounded in your root chakra. And I can remember people being like, you need to ground. And I'm like, great, well, I just did. Michelle (25:35) Yes. Dr. Allison Snowden (25:44) 90 minutes of yoga, that didn't work. I did yoga for 13 years. That didn't, I mean, it helped, but it didn't, it didn't, you know, lock me in. And so I really do think that I'm so grateful that I stumbled onto this technique because it really, in a laser way, really did a lot of good healing work in a really short amount of time. And I never thought it was possible. Like I never thought it was possible for, cause you know, I'd lived with like 20 years of anxiety and PTSD managing it, managing this condition. And it was like two years ago where I, you know, I'm healing, teaching, I'm taking more courses and there is a healing that happened. And I just, I was like, Whoa, I'm in my body. And I was like, this is really nice, you know? And then I started to talk to women and I'm like, when I talk to them, I'm like, and I'm intuitively tuning in, what I see is like, okay, they have their programming from society that's been indoctrinated. I'm supposed to have a baby at da -da -da -da, I'm supposed to do this. My husband wants this, this person wants this, this person wants this. I gotta get the kids, da -da -da -da -da. all these different things. I want to please everyone. How can I please any everyone? Then there's the unconscious resentment because who's going to take care of me? And so when I scan someone, I can feel all of these little programs operating like going like that with women. And, you know, that's usually from like a fawn response, you know, of like people pleasing because all of us, I don't know, maybe not all of us, because that's the generalization. But a lot of girls are conditioned to you know, if we please others and that's good girl, you know, maybe that's changing. mean, I was born in the eighties, so maybe that's different. But so how is that relevant to like, you know, fertility to women's health is that all of this is operating within your body. And these programs and and and these beliefs are very strong. They affect your hormones. They affect. if your cortisol is going up, you know, it is, I know there's some trauma survivors who are like, people are like, oh, just, you know, stop being so stressed. Well, that's a little complex. If you've had abuse, if you've had neglect, you know, it's, it's not, it, you know, like going to the doctor or being like, oh yeah, just do some 10 minutes of meditation. So yeah, no, that, that probably is not going to solve it, you know? So first you have to know yourself and know, and I think what the thing is is that a lot of people, my story is very dramatic and they're like, she had trauma. there's, it's pretty dramatic. But I wanna say that a lot of times if you have large gaps in memory of your childhood, if you have certain fears or things like that that you can't trace your body remembers what your mind doesn't. And so, and there really isn't really true suppression of it because, you know, it's either gonna come out in your mental health, your perception of yourself or in your habits or your lack of self-love. Cause a lot of times we, in order to deal with trauma, we turn into self -hatred or we recreate those mean voices inside our own internal narrative. And that has consequences on our body. So, or, you know, it'll show up as an autoimmune disorder later or cancer, you know, so it's there, you know, we're gonna, I feel like people deal, I have that, have a catalyst, whether it's, you know, trying to have a baby, or having a disease or an accident or something where it really, you know, makes us look inward. Michelle (29:42) Yeah, for sure. And you know what, I thought about so many things when you were talking and I can really relate coming from my own experience and wanting to do more for others. And I think that a lot of us in the healing world started out as our patients, as patients ourselves and work through a lot to see that we can do that. I think a lot when I think about trauma, I think a lot about the nervous system. And you've mentioned the nervous system is kind of like a channel of information and think about just experiences in life. We store information. We're living in a time where we are, are bombarded with information. Women are growing up with all kinds of information, not all true. A lot of it's not true. And then we take in that information, store it in our body. And it's not based in truth, not based in reality. And you had mentioned kind of connecting with that divine wisdom. that is always there waiting for us to tap into. We have that, it's our birthright. So, I mean, so many of these things I really relate to, and I think that that's what it is. It's really creating, really living in our truth, because I feel like the truth is kind of like the light, the purification, the shedding of things that are not true. And I kind of feel like that's, you know, if you think about trauma and all these beliefs, there are basically untruths, things that are not true that we are taking in, we're storing in our body and it doesn't align with our consciousness. And when you said like that we're not in our bodies, I totally relate to that. You think about shamanistic work. They always retrieve souls. They retrieve part of ourselves. Like part of ourselves leaves our body. People talk about this in, you know, horrible victims, know, victim situations where they leave their bodies and It's kind of like a part of our soul leaves. And I talk a lot about this, you know, with Qi, with Qi life force vitality. When we create awareness, our awareness actually opens us up to more Qi. And when we lose that Qi and our awareness is off or out, then we're lacking that life force vitality. And so that consciousness or the lack thereof, if we have a lack of consciousness in certain parts of our body, then it causes more opportunistic. energy to come Dr. Allison Snowden (32:01) Exactly. it's, I think, it's our truth and our power, right? Like, I think, I really do think as women, because those are the, like, because I've been working and scanning a lot of people for a long time. And probably one of the most common patterns that I see is just disempowered, like, root and sacral And so when those chakras are disempowered, I'm like, there's a safety issue. Then there's a power issue, a sexual issue, a creativity issue, a receiving, because if you've had sexual trauma, there may be some issues of receiving things from others, right? All trauma is usually, unless it's hurricane or like Michelle (32:34) Mm -hmm. Dr. Allison Snowden (32:49) you know, national disaster, all trauma is usually delivered somewhat by through another human. And so that really, that, and you know, that is real. And then a lot of us to put another, you know, nuance on that, a lot of people, especially if they had childhood trauma, neglect, abuse, a lot of people don't even know that that wasn't, you know, neglect or abuse. until they're older, just how our brain is developed and how that happens. But also if then, if there was something like molestation or sexual trauma, there's, most people are gaslit about that. And I don't know, I was just like scrolling on something. I was looking for something on the internet and then, I don't know, I saw something. Michelle (33:27) Mm -hmm. Dr. Allison Snowden (33:35) I guess it was like on Facebook and there's these like raw stories about just people's childhoods. And I just like went into the comments and I sometimes do this. I feel like it's sometimes just some of my advocacy. I'm like just two comments, Alice, and then you have to get back to work. just people like someone saying, her story is not making sense or da -da -da -da. Michelle (33:58) questioning. Dr. Allison Snowden (33:59) you know, questioning her and I'm like, no one wants to go through this, you know, Michelle (34:06) There's a lot of that out there. It's really sad to see. Dr. Allison Snowden (34:10) It is, and it really is. so, I mean, just to anyone who's, know, and I've spoken out about my experience, like, and some people are like, you know, like, you know, all of these different things. And I'm like, think our culture is like a major issue with judgment. And I just... Michelle (34:30) Big time. Dr. Allison Snowden (34:33) It is just amazing to me. You know, like I, you know, the lack of empathy, the lack of real inner connection to self and real connection to others and that like people just say things like just I think they're just getting out their anger and, you know, like forgetting that these are human beings that may read these comments. But, yeah, I mean, I think But yeah, like with the gas lighting. So that's another thing that happens with trauma or wasn't that bad or that type of thing. So I really do think also it's like with trauma, if you didn't have someone to help you process the emotions, trauma is also what didn't happen. So if someone wasn't there for you, if someone wasn't there to help you process your emotions, Maybe you didn't have parents that knew how to process emotions, because they were dysregulated all the time. So just the part of feeling and learning that skill and feeling is really important. know, like as in Chinese medicine, our emotions, the over or under expression of our emotions can cause disease, you know, or the stagnation of that can cause disease. And that's why I love Michelle (35:43) Definitely. Dr. Allison Snowden (35:47) Chinese medicine as like my base point because it acknowledges that now, like now if you look in the research, like in the seventies, was like psycho neuro immunology was just coming out and people were like, this is such, you know, BS, but like now it's like, yes, like it's, it's validating that, you know, everything is connected to everything. and this old like Dick Hart kind of the mind is over here and the body's here and they operate like is just kind of actually like real just it that's that's been disproven over and over. But our. Michelle (36:29) I think we're definitely moving into a new era. I really do. feel like things are breaking down. hard to watch, but I feel like things are breaking down that are not working. And I think people are starting to see it. People are starting to see the staleness of some of the old systems. just doesn't really, it's not relevant. You know, and I think that it will, it's interesting. say old system is ancient medicine has been around forever, but they consider the spirit. They don't just look at us as a body. They acknowledge Dr. Allison Snowden (37:00) Yeah, yeah, the spirit, the emotions, also all of the little intricacies of life and nuances and connection. And I think that's where you were talking about the nervous system. I think there's, love, like, have you heard of polyvagal theory? So it's about just the different branches of the nervous system. And like our ventral vagal part of our nervous system is the most like new evolutionary. so ventral vagal is like our social aspect. Like you're safe, I can connect to you and I can connect to myself. And but if we go into sympathetic or into, you know, kind of shut down freeze mode, those are the different stress stress points. So like when you're in those different nervous system, states where you're, if you've been in a collapse mode or freeze mode, you're like numb withdrawal, there's, there's a physical symptoms that go with it. And then also mental, like emotional aspects that go with it when you're in fight flight. your nervous system and your perception, your body is really like being like, it is not safe for me to connect out there, you know, and it's looking for cues for danger. And so how, how Theta healing and the work that I do is that I work with the individual because unhealed belief systems from trauma or just even conditioning. and a lot of these are subconscious unconscious. in our they're alive in your in your nervous system and they'll, you know, turn on your stress response when it's not needed. Right. So when you heal a trauma, then, you know, it's no longer in your consciousness. It's no longer, you know, disrupting you or, you know, there are I never had like issues with remembering my trauma, but there are people who have repressed trauma and more shut down mode. But. I just, I don't know, I, for me, I thought like I was just going to have to manage my PTSD because I tried so many different, you name it, I tried all of the things. I had, you know, I never ever gave up, but I was like, hey Al, you know, like maybe this is, you know, and I was like, I'm never gonna stop trying. And, you know, it wasn't, you know, one class or one session, or even, you know, it was a cumulative of a lot of work with me, because I had such extreme, like, violence that was, that my body remembered. But, like, I did get there where I finally was like, my God, I feel, I feel safe. Michelle (39:40) Amazing. That's awesome. Dr. Allison Snowden (39:41) And girls, like all the women on here, that is the best thing I've ever felt in my life. And it is the best thing. Like I want that for every woman because when your soul is like anchored into all your chakras and you feel safe in your body, like there's your heaven on earth. Michelle (40:04) I love that. my God, that's powerful. Dr. Allison Snowden (40:06) It is, it is, and I like literally, I'm like, you know what? No one, no amount of money could make me like give this away. Like not that I could, but, but like, it's, I think what happens is, is sometimes our ego, I'm, I'm sure, cause we're all human. We've done this. when, or this is how my ego worked. Alison, when you, when you have the boyfriend, when you have, this or the marriage or, or you have this much. Yeah. Michelle (40:16) yeah. The conditions, all the conditions, yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (40:34) external, all the external, this is how everyone's ego tricks them. When you achieve something outside of yourself, then it will change how you feel inside. And hey guys, it does for like maybe a day or maybe a week or maybe the honeymoon period for three months or something. But eventually, you know, like that is not the way. And Michelle (40:50) Right, yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (41:02) It's like really changing our programming. So our programming, our conditioning from childhood, our identities, our stories that they show up as narratives. Because when we're little, our brain, when we experience pain as a little kid, we're trying to understand how to not make that happen again. And from our little brain that is under, that is not an adult brain, that doesn't see adults as flawed human beings, the little child brain is like, my parent is not paying attention to me, then there must be something wrong with me. And then there's that adaptation. Maybe I'll just be more perfect. Maybe I'll work hard. So then you have all of these adults that are just living these adaptations from, and I'm not shaming that at all, because we all do it, because we all have to survive, and we all are coming from that. Michelle (41:47) Mm -hmm, that's Dr. Allison Snowden (41:55) There's a lot of talk about authenticity, but do people really think that their authentic self is their stories, their ego tells themselves or the stories that their trauma tells themselves or the stories that the bullies at school back in fourth grade tells them? And how do you really know that it's healed? Right? Cause there's a lot of people like, don't, especially men, they're like, I don't need healing, I'm over that. And I'm like, well, let's ask your body. And so with thinking healing, We like in a session like I do we make in theta healing the subconscious is divided into four different levels So in other other systems, it's not divided in that but in theta healing we have The core level which is this life. So in utero up to you know this moment in time Genetics, so, you know what in our bloodline what and also what traits carried the genetics forward, know, what belief systems. And then there's the historic, which is the collective consciousness, because we're all connected and that all these collective thoughts, but then also past lives. So, and then the deepest part is your soul, because your soul, guys, maybe you forgot it for a little bit, but all of us have this energy and we decided, or we are incarnated for a reason. And each of you, because I've been over on that, I've peeked behind the other side, each of us have a specific, a very specific reason why we're here and different experiences we want to experience and different virtues and different virtues as in compassion, love. You we want to grow through our consciousness, our frequency. grows through experience. And as we have different experiences, we get to learn a lot. And I really love this part of Theta Healing because Our soul, and I can speak to this, I think sometimes, so when my soul, when I was overlooking the earth and I saw my body and I saw what was happening or what had happened, I mean, my soul was like, well, you it was almost like, I mean, I thought I was gonna survive this, but okay, I'll get another body and we'll just go back down there. You know, it's like, I think sometimes we get so entrenched in, know, this is who I am, I'm this. Yeah, attachment. Yeah, to this body, to whatever, even the drama that's going on, even the politic, you know, all of it, it's like there. And it's like, but from your Michelle (44:25) The attachment to like this. Yeah. even the problems and yeah. Dr. Allison Snowden (44:39) soul's perspective, like a little drop in the bucket, you Michelle (44:43) right. It is. Yeah. I mean, we do, we can get very sucked into, to so many different things. And you could see it kind of in the micro too, like just throughout your life. If you have something that you're thinking about, write it down. Actually, my husband said that, a friend of his mom said, write down whatever put it in your drawer, open it up a month from now, and then ask yourself again, are you still as upset? And he did that. And he said that really, and he was a teenager at the time, he said that really opened my mind to just how things end up working out and how much energy we put into problems. But this is amazing information. Of course, I can speak to you for hours, but we're kind of nearing the end. If people are interested, like what's the process, how can they find you and how can they work with Dr. Allison Snowden (45:28) Yeah. so I'm on my website is www .doctor Snowden. That's dr sn o w d e n .com. And then I'm on instagram at dr Allison Snowden. And through there I do one on one. And then what I'm really passionate about. I love doing my one on ones. and I love teaching others to access this and to do it to themselves because we all need help. But I really think this is a skillset that is going to be like, you know, brushing your teeth, like for mental, emotional, spiritual balance that, and it's powerful. You know, if you have a limiting belief. Michelle (46:00) That's amazing, I love that. Dr. Allison Snowden (46:17) Like you can say, I don't believe that, but guess what guys, your body believes it. like, just cause you say you don't believe it, like there is that. it's, so Theta, I do Theta healing classes and it's a curriculum. So you have to do them, you have to do them in order. The next one is in September. So I usually have a beginning cohort in September and January. And sometimes I do a mini like condensed, like, Michelle (46:21) Mm -hmm. Dr. Allison Snowden (46:41) session in June. So I really just, think if you want to just upgrade your life and heal, like, and also in these classes, we have professional healers, we have doctors, we have healers, but then we have just regular people that just want to, you know, get more connected to their intuition to heal themselves, like quicker and faster. And it's such a simple thing and everyone can learn how to do And I want, like, I just, like, one of my dreams, like, is I just want to get, like, I want this to just be like, because, you know, when I was talking about this when I was like in 99, you know, now it's like 20, 24, but I just, I'm pretty excited like you, because we've come a long way, but, you know, I think everyone, you know, Michelle (47:09) I love that. Dr. Allison Snowden (47:38) needs to learn at least the basics of self -healing. Because you Michelle (47:42) 100%. They should teach us this in school. mean, it's just, it's empowerment 101. I mean, really, like, just be able to be empowered like we're, it's our birthright Dr. Allison Snowden (47:45) Right? it is. And so I just I love that. That's just like my my thing right now is just to get a lot of people there's the first four classes are weekend classes. And then the one that if you guys want a miracle or want a whole paradigm shift, intuitive anatomy is a 15 day class and we go through you would love this other healers like love this. So we go and clear each system. So the circular the digestive system that has a lot of abuse programs in it. So we have a whole day and about 200 beliefs that we check and we do healings and clearings on. And like people just feel different things like discipline. It's amazing when your perspective changes, your physiology changes. Michelle (48:34) Amazing. Awesome. Your whole world changes. love it. I love it. This is of course all the stuff that I love talking about. And I'm so happy you came on. Your story is so inspiring and I love what you're doing for so many other people. Guys got to check out her Instagram. It's a lot of fun. She shares a lot of awesome information. I really enjoy it myself. Dr. Allison, it was such a pleasure to meet you. I knew that I was going to like you and thank you so much for coming on. Dr. Allison Snowden (49:02) good gosh, I like, I love talking to you and you have such a, like just a beautiful energy and like just really like my, you know, I, cause I do a lot of different podcasts and I just felt so like at home here. And I just like want to share that with you because it's just like, I just like your energy is just so welcoming and so loving. And I just like, I'm like, God, I just love my like Healer Women. We're just I just, you know, we, you know, I just absolutely had such a, it was so great being in this space with Michelle (49:39) Aww. that means a lot to me. really, I really received that and, and I appreciate it. feel likewise. I mean, I really love your energy, so I think it's synchronistic. So thank you again so much. Dr. Allison Snowden (49:57) You're welcome. Sending you so much love and thank you for listening, anyone who's listened. And if you have any comments or questions, feel free to email us or send us a DM. And we're here to help you guys heal and love your body, love your life, create what you want. Michelle (50:16) Amen. Awesome. Dr. Allison Snowden (50:18) Yes.
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EP 301 What is The Feminine Fertility Cure? Rosanne Austin
3 set· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome back Rosanne Austin @rosanneaustinfertility. Rosanne has been on my podcast before, so if you want to hear her backstory, you can check out our first conversation on Episode 216. In our conversation, Rosanne shared her Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour and her upcoming book, The Feminine Fertility Cure. She shares her motivation for going on the tour and the impact it has had on women. Rosanne explains the importance of reconnecting with femininity for fertility and discusses the historical context of the masculinization of women.Her book aims to educate women about the masculine and feminine energies and how they relate to fertility. The conversation explores the paradigm of progress and success that has been ingrained in society, emphasizing the importance of education, financial independence, and career achievements. It discusses how this paradigm has influenced women's choices and perceptions of femininity. The conversation also highlights the need for women to reconnect with their feminine nature and desires, and how this can positively impact fertility. It addresses the societal pressure on women to conform to a masculine ideal and the negative impact it has had on women's happiness and fertility rates. Rosanne shares practical steps for women to tap into their feminine power and improve their fertility. Takeaways The Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour allowed Rosanne Austin to connect with women in person and witness the impact of her work. The book, The Feminine Fertility Cure, explores the historical context of the masculinization of women and educates women about the importance of reclaiming their feminine nature for fertility. Reconnecting with femininity is crucial for fertility. Feminism should be about equal rights for men and women, including the right for women to choose to stay feminine. The paradigm of progress and success has influenced women's choices and perceptions of femininity. Reconnecting with feminine nature and desires can positively impact fertility. Societal pressure to conform to a masculine ideal has negatively affected women's happiness and fertility rates. Guest Bio: Rosanne Austin, JD, PCC, received her coaching training from the honored Coaches Training Institute in San Rafael, California. She is certified by and a member of the International Coach Federation, which is the leader in professional training, standards, and ethics for coaching professionals. Rosanne is also a proud member of California State Bar. She received her Juris Doctorate from University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law, where she was on the Dean’s List and received the Witkin Award in Expert and Scientific Evidence. She also holds a Bachelor of Arts in History from San Francisco State University, graduating Summa Cum Laude. Rosanne’s professional background has given her the honor and opportunity to directly impact thousands of people’s lives, at a time when they were vulnerable, fearful, heartbroken, and at a crossroads. Rosanne is the author of 3 bestselling books and her work has been featured on leading podcasts such as The Doctor Mom Podcast, Infertility in the City, The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Infertile AF, Finding Fertility, The Hormone Puzzle Podcast, The Egg Whisperer Show. She has also had leading fertility experts such as Dr. Zaher Merhi, Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh, Dr. Robert Kiltz, and Dr. Christiane Northrup on her top 1% Fearlessly Fertile Podcast. When she is not writing, mentoring, speaking, teaching, leading her transformational events and programs, or loving on her husband and son, Rosanne gives back by serving organizations committed to providing resources to survivors of Human Trafficking and for the protection of abused/abandoned dogs and cats. https://www.frommaybetobaby.com https://www.instagram.com/rosanneaustinfertility/ For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome back to the podcast, Rosanne. Rosanne Austin (00:03) Thanks for having me, Michelle! Such a good place to be! Michelle (00:07) Yes, so excited to have you back. know I love you if I have you this many times back to the podcast. So I want to talk about your upcoming book that is coming out, The Feminine Fertility Cure. But I also want to talk about maybe before that, your tour that you just Rosanne Austin (00:20) Yes. Michelle (00:29) had but are continuing soon. Rosanne Austin (00:31) Yes. Yeah. Well, so this so we started this year in March. We started the Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour, which is kind of hilarious because I I was thinking to myself it was last October when this idea came to mind. So October 2023. And then we start all of the stuff that goes into it by January 2024. So I'm a pretty quick mover. like, want to make a decision. let's just go on a world tour. And it was funny because the thought behind all this leading up to the book and everything else that I'm doing right now was a desire to really connect, to connect with the women who love the work that I do or who are curious or maybe just starting their fertility journey. But I was pretty sick of sitting behind my computer. Michelle (01:00) You are, man. Rosanne Austin (01:28) and being just disconnected, right? Like you and I both know because we're cool and we do this work is that we know we're energetically we're connected, but I think there's something dramatically different and rich and really colorful and just super interesting about connecting with people in person. Michelle (01:28) Hmm. Rosanne Austin (01:51) And so I just said, fuck it, let's go do this. And I'm like, I don't know how to do it world tour, but I do know how to travel. So the team and I just sat down together and kind of mapped out the cities where we thought we could have the most impact. And we just started traveling. So it's not like I had any experience prior to actually doing it, but I think doing it is the best possible teacher. So we started on the West coast of the United States. We did San Francisco, LA. San Diego, and then we went on to the East Coast where we did DC, New York, New York City, and then we went up to Buffalo, because interestingly enough, I have a sizable audience in Buffalo, New York, and then we went to Toronto and Montreal. And all of those locations were just fantastic, just getting to hug my ladies, hold their babies, and really see the fruit of what I put out in the world, but more importantly, how women take that message, apply it to their own lives, and are creating these insane results. So it was from the East Coast. We came home to Texas for a couple weeks and then got back out on the road and we started in Europe in May. So we did, my gosh, it feels like. It was just a few weeks ago, it feels like, you know, we got back on June 3rd, but we were in Florence, Paris, London, Manchester, Birmingham, and we're in Edinburgh. And then it, yeah, it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. tell ya. But it was great, you know, when we were filming the whole thing, our intention is to complete a documentary. Michelle (03:33) That's awesome. Rosanne Austin (03:43) on the work that I do and the impact and all of that good stuff to really inspire women to look beyond their current circumstances and stay focused on their vision for their lives because I met so many women along the way, some women that I had never met, some women who I just read the book or some women who were just listening to the podcast that were creating such crazy results. And it's hard to wrap your head around. So that was also like, that was part of the intention was to get back into the trenches, but it was also to see and assess for myself what the impact could be so that I could get better at what I do. So I can really see, you know, how can I take this to the next level? How can I serve at a higher level or what the vision might be? So it's been wild. It's been really crazy. And actually, Michelle (04:17) and then. Rosanne Austin (04:38) At the time of this recording in a couple of weeks, I'll be in Chicago. And then we have a few dates in here in Texas. And then January, we're looking at New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, or Dubai. So it's a legit world tour. Yeah. Michelle (04:52) love that. my god, that is just so freaking, And I love your dedication. I know you talk about like hundreds of thousands of women that you're gonna like help them conceive. I don't know if it already happened. I don't like at this point. But I know that you really have such a passion about spreading this message and empowering so many women, so many couples and How did you decide on the locations, first of all? Did you do it based on like a survey of some people like knowing where they live or the audience? Rosanne Austin (05:27) Well, you know, it was kind of, it was sort of both where I'm like, I'm looking at, okay, what are the major metropolitan areas? And so it wasn't like, it was strategic from that point, but it also had to be cities I was interested in going to. Like if I'm not interested, I don't go. And if I'm not interested, my energy's low, I can't, you know, because the energy in the room. Michelle (05:40) Yeah. I can't imagine your energy being low because I feel like you're so aligned you would never do anything that wouldn't be. Rosanne Austin (05:52) Yeah, well, I mean, but that's kind of part of it is that, you know, but the energy like that that I was getting from being in all of these different places. And it was because I consciously chose them and was excited about them. And the women showed up like it was it was really cool. It was really, really cool to see and to watch that growth and and really Michelle (06:09) Amazing. Rosanne Austin (06:22) You know, because it's kind of funny because I still see myself as you know that former prosecutor with this just this idea. But it you know, so many years later, it's not just an idea. It's an actual movement. It's a phenomenon. So it was exciting and it was such a gift. It was very humbling. I would say is another thing that came up. It was very humbling to see how when women make a decision and how when women are really committed to the dream. Michelle (06:36) Mm -hmm. Rosanne Austin (06:51) that they can make anything happen. I mean, I sat there with women who had been told so many different times and in so many different ways that having a baby was impossible. I mean, women who had stillbirths, women who had devastating losses, second trimester losses that were in the room holding babies. I mean, it was breathtaking. And I don't think I have fully processed it, like, because I'm always on the go. I'm always like, Michelle (07:07) Okay. Wow. Rosanne Austin (07:21) kind of moving through to the next project. But it was, you know, when I have quiet moments, which I do have, but when I sit and really think of the enormity of it, it's extremely humbling and it's a real testament to the human spirit. I mean, that's, I mean, the reason why I do this work is, you know, one, I find it exciting and I love learning. I'm a perpetual student. I love keeping my edge sharp. Michelle (07:38) I love that. Rosanne Austin (07:48) But it's also like, I really love watching these women wake up to their own power, because that's at the essence of what I do. Michelle (07:56) Oof. I love that. I love that. And I think that that's why I love you so much. I truly do because I feel I could really relate to that because it's just it's freaking amazing. There's nothing like it because people do have power. I think that seeing people not know that they have that is painful. And you want to make sure that everybody that you really come into contact realizes just how powerful they are. So I'm sure based on what you're telling me that you have some incredible stories. So if anything jumps out, I would love to hear about it. Rosanne Austin (08:37) Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, but we share that commonality in the work that we do is that it is the essence of what we're doing is trying to well, and I only try to wake up people that want to be awake. So much like you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Much like you is that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And that's what we're there to do based on our expertise, our training, our background, our commitment. Michelle (08:51) Mm -hmm. You have to. You can't. You can't force it. Rosanne Austin (09:07) we come in and we say, hey, there is another way. And let me show you this modality. And you know, because that's, people have to understand that fertility is like a mosaic. They are all these different pieces. And no matter how you arrange those pieces, you are always the foundation. You are always the glue that keeps everything together. So when you are not aligned or when you have a belief system that keeps you stuck repeating old patterns, then, It doesn't matter. It's funny, we were talking about this earlier, but you can't out supplement, you can't out yoga, you cannot out treat a belief that says you can't have what you want or you're not worthy of what you want. Or that you have no power, essentially. I mean, because it's all lies. I mean, think about what we were talking about before about the energy in our bodies, the meridians, all these things. When we were talking about your book, like, Michelle (09:56) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (10:05) It is the essence of saying you have the power. So anything that separates you from that reality is no good. So this work is really about coming back to understanding that you are the foundation. Once you have that foundation and then you add the beauty of what you do or the beauty of what other people do and medicine and all these other things, you can get to a place where... Michelle (10:09) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (10:31) you realize that you're making these things that you want, you're making them your reality. Baby, home, car, profession, all of these things that come together to create a really full life. So it's, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool shit. Michelle (10:46) I just had a vision in my head as you were telling me that of like a computer. You can have like state of the art parts and everything put together, but if the program is not installed, that is going to help you get from A to Z. Rosanne Austin (11:01) Yeah, no, that's a beautiful metaphor. That's like the perfect metaphor. I'm gonna borrow that. I'm gonna borrow it. I'm gonna say thank you, Michelle Orovitz for this amazing visual here because it fucking makes sense. Yeah. Michelle (11:06) Take it, take it, it's a gift. Yes. Yeah. And physical parts itself is doing all the things, out supplementing and all of that for sure. And so let's talk, I'm very excited to talk about this, the feminine fertility cure. tell us everything. Rosanne Austin (11:29) Duh. okay. So this this book is many, many years in the making. So and it actually Yes, yes, yes. Well, and it was funny because I actually can thank Chinese medicine for this because when I was on my own journey, I had no idea I was stuck in my masculine or my yang as you would say it. And Michelle (11:38) Those are always the best ones. Rosanne Austin (12:00) I thought I was kind of a weirdo. I just thought, you know what, I got this problem. Like I'm not able to receive, on the exterior, I'm, you know, yeah, I'm feminine. I wear makeup, I got cute clothes, I get my nails done and all that. I had all the physical outward trappings of femininity, but my energy was decidedly masculine. Now I was starting to ask questions about why that was. At first I thought, well, it's just my profession. As a prosecutor, it's decidedly masculine profession. You have to armor up. You're going into a courtroom, possibly with a homicidal maniac or a serial rapist. You gotta have your armor up. But what I found out is that the armor was never coming off. And as I started, when I got on my journey and then I started teaching other women what I had learned and then I left my work as a prosecutor, and really went full throttle into what I do, I started seeing a pattern that a lot of other women I was serving also had this problem with a disconnection to their femininity. And I observed it for a while and I'm like, okay, let me just take note of this. Let me just take note. And... Michelle (13:12) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (13:19) I was like, well, there's something to this, you know, this idea of conceiving is all about receiving. And if we're stuck in our masculine and disconnected from our feminine, how the hell are we ever gonna receive from our partner and conceive? So I really started to take note. And because I serve such lovably type A recovering control, freaky professional women, you know, at the top of their game who are primarily in more Michelle (13:32) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (13:49) masculine professions, it, so many of us get stuck and I'm like, well, how the fuck do we get unstuck? And then I started to work through that. I looked at what I was doing. How was I reconnecting with my feminine? And I'm like, okay, so let me take what I learned, start teaching it. Let me start studying more. Let me explore more of this feminine. So when I started incorporating this kind of work into what I was doing, I saw the results skyrocket. Michelle (13:56) Mm -hmm. Mmm. Rosanne Austin (14:18) within women to help them reconnect to the feminine. But what was more interesting and the questions that I started answering with this book, The Feminine Fertility Cure, was where the hell did this start? Because you don't just have a couple generations of women completely disconnected to their feminine. Where did this start? So I started doing research, and this is where it gets super interesting. I'm like, Michelle (14:40) Hmm. Rosanne Austin (14:46) If you look, and I only speak about the United States because that's where I live, that's what I know, that's a culture I was raised in. But if you look at what has happened to women ever since the women's movement, it's actually quite shocking. And through the research and watching it myself and being caught up in it myself, we really got this message that since the women's movement in the 1960s, I use in my book, the Kennedy administration as kind of this line of demarcation that post the Kennedy administration in the United States, there was a concerted effort to masculinize women, to take us away from our feminine nature. And we were sold, well, I don't really call it sold, I call it a fucking scam. In my book, we were scammed out of our femininity because what we were told is that, yeah, get out in the workplace, you know, get yourself out of the shackles of domesticity and you're gonna be free. But what was really happening was a systematic masculinization. So we were taken away from our feminine nature and told that you have to work hard, you have to dress like a man, you have to pack up your emotions, you have to conform, separate yourself from your spirituality. Michelle (15:48) Okay. Rosanne Austin (16:08) and femininity is weak, we started to see all of these things that if you wanted to be a successful woman who represents progress, be more like a man. And the data's undeniable. It's undeniable. Like, because you think about it, and of course, I went into a profession that, as like I said before, as a prosecutor is very masculine. There's nothing feminine about anything that you're doing there. And when you spend long enough in that masculine mode, you get disconnected from the feminine. You don't even know what it is. Like, you'd be surprised, Michelle, how many physicians, surgeons, lawyers, engineers that I work with, like when I say the feminine, there's like this giant question mark over their head, like what? You know, but when you look at some of the propaganda that we were fed as Michelle (16:45) Hmm. Rosanne Austin (17:05) you know, anyone born post Kennedy administration. The idea was, is that in order for you to be free and to have progress, you got to go into life in a certain way and it's decidedly masculine. So what this book is about is educating women about basically how that happened, educating about what the masculine is, what the feminine is, how it directly connects to fertility because Michelle (17:34) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (17:34) I don't care what anyone says. Having a baby is the most fucking feminine thing you will ever do. And this is why trying to do it from young in your terms or like a man in mine, I watch women try to get pregnant like a man all the time and men don't get pregnant, okay? We as women do. And when you're trying to do a decidedly feminine thing like a man, you find yourself with problems. And another thing about Michelle (17:47) Mm -hmm. Rosanne Austin (18:04) The masculine, which, and I've got nothing on the masculine. I've got no complaint because the masculine and the feminine work synergistically. You and I know this. One is not better than the other. That's not what I'm saying here. But what this work is about and what I get into in this book is really encouraging women to reclaim. It is all about reclamation. Reclaim your feminine nature because Michelle (18:26) Yeah. Right. Rosanne Austin (18:31) It's from the feminine that you are going to heal what ails you when it comes to your fertility. Because when you think about the masculine, it's go, go, go, do, do, do, you are not enough, you just work harder, do more, be more perfect and this will happen. The feminine, I mean think about what the feminine stands for. It's the spiritual, it's the nurturing, it's the fertility. Michelle (18:58) creative. Rosanne Austin (19:00) Yeah, it's the creative, it's the surrendered, it's the open, it's the receptive, all of those things. I mean, those are some important things when you're trying to conceive. But when we're stuck in man mode, we are completely cut off from that. And then we keep beating our head up against the wall trying to figure out why I have so much inflammation. Why do I have all this stuck energy? Why do I feel like nothing's moving? It's because you're stuck in man mode. and I want to say this because some, you know, this, I want to be super clear, like this book is not political at all. Some will probably read this book and accuse me of being anti -feminist, but I come from the perspective, I look at feminism as in a very legalistic way, that men and women have equal rights. That's it. That's it. Any, for me, anything beyond that? starts to get far afield, people abuse it, all this other stuff. So I come from the perspective that, you know, because around that time people will say, well, you don't think that was a good time because this is when, you know, feminism rose up. Well, yeah, and so did a lot of other things. Okay. So I'm looking at this strictly from when we look at feminism and believing that men and women have equal rights under the law. And we say that a woman deserves to have a right to choose in just about everything in her life and that also includes staying feminine, right? Because the messaging that we got was the only way to be successful is to act more like a man. Think about this, Michelle. So I'm 50 and I do not recall ever hearing messaging that staying home and having babies and being in a relationship was a legitimate option. Michelle (20:35) Is it? Rosanne Austin (20:51) The only thing I ever heard was leave the house, never depend on a man, get an education, make a bunch of money and be untouchable, right? That was the paradigm of progress. Michelle (20:56) Mm -hmm. You see it everywhere. You see it on TV shows, on movies, like everywhere, everywhere. Rosanne Austin (21:05) Yeah, that was the paradigm of progress and success. And think about it, I remember, and this is like, this just shows how deep the programming is. I remember a girl in my high school class who wanted to get married and have babies. And I remember thinking, poor thing, that's a life thrown away. Like how anti -woman is that shit? I mean, that's how deep the programming was. And I thought I was the quote unquote feminist back then. Like not respecting that woman's desire and her otherwise legitimate choice to live her life with traditional feminine pursuits, right? And the whole point of this is not to say it's bad to have a profession or it's bad to stay at home. It's none of that. It's a masculine paradigm that tries to force us into choosing. Rather than saying, okay, we as creative, resourceful, and whole women get to move through those things. You know, like you might do time as a prosecutor, you might do time as a physician, and then decide that your soul is saying, I really want to go home, I want to get pregnant, I want to have babies and chickens and a garden. Like that's legit. Michelle (22:01) Right, yeah, good point. Rosanne Austin (22:27) But yet that, you know, so much of the messaging up to this point has been, that is the lesser choice. Like the feminine is the lesser choice or the feminine is the weak. And so everything that I'm talking about in this book is saying, look sister, your fertility and your issues with fertility right now are a wake -up call. It's a wake -up call to come home to the fucking feminine because... Your femininity, your feminine is your fertility superpower. Michelle (22:58) love that. my God. So many things come to mind. And I'm thinking about the Yin and the Yang. Like imagine the Yin and the Yang start arguing with each other or like fighting like each other's nature. Well, you should be like this. You should know like everything in nature has the Yin and the Yang. They need to be there. They need to be there. Otherwise, this is what my professor told me when we first learned about it. Like when Yin and Yang separate, there is death because we need the Yin and Yang for vitality. Rosanne Austin (23:23) Mmm! that's so good. Michelle (23:26) So we need that and it's like really to kind of bring it to that and I am going to talk science right now because in so there's been a couple of studies that I saw about having sex outside of the fertile window. When women are more sexually active, which they naturally would be if they felt connected with their partner. It's just like a natural tendency. But what happens physiologically? is when they are more sexually active, unprotected, even outside of the fertile window into the luteal phase, you know what happens? A woman's immune system starts to change from what it was before. And what happens is the immune system starts to bring its arms down a little bit more. It starts to become more receptive, more calm. It lowers itself. It stops being in such a fight mode, ready to attack. And design. When it does that, when it knows, okay, I'm in receptive mode here, we're having more sex, I'm getting familiar with the sperm, I allow it in so that this isn't an invader. I'm receiving, inviting, allowing. So this is literally like what you're telling me here. immune systems don't do that because they don't receive they they're putting out it's a different energy it's a different flow it's a different direction. Rosanne Austin (24:48) Mmmmm Yeah. that's so beautiful. I love that you shared that because, you know, it's a really warped thing that we have gotten into as women. And when you think about it, it really is insidious. Like why, I mean, we even see this today because we were talking about, like if we look at the women's movement from the 1960s, like the intention was good, of course. We want women to have equal rights under the law as men. That's obvious, that's basic, it's a human right. But when you look at how that got warped and then it's like, okay, well, if you really wanna be free, get out of the house, do all this stuff, start acting like a man, you know, we even see images in media. Michelle (25:25) Mm -hmm. Rosanne Austin (25:41) and film and all this other stuff of women being, you know, having sex like men, which is wildly unnatural. Like that's not our natural state as women to be like predators in that sense, you know? Yeah. Michelle (25:56) we have more oxytocin and it actually is meant to connect us more to one person. Rosanne Austin (26:03) Right, right, right. And then, you know, we see this ripple effect that it's had and we look at since about 1970, and women will have to take a look at the book to get the dates right. I have so many dates and numbers, you know, stuck in my head from having done the research, but it was around 1970 that we started to track women's happiness on a consistent basis. So we have data going back to Michelle (26:19) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (26:32) approximately from 1970 to about 2006, that tracks with not only did the birth rate go down, because we have things like, you know, no fault divorce, we have the advent of birth control, abortion being legal, all of these things, these new cultural things that happen, that as women left the home, pursued education, made more money, had fewer children, there's actually an inverse relationship. So the more educated a woman became and pursued those more masculine results, the less happy she became. And I believe the number is 35%. happiness has dropped by 35%, the more educated that we became and the more separated from the home. Now what's funny is this research that came out of the Wharton School of Business showing that like is the Michelle (27:16) wow. Rosanne Austin (27:31) antithesis of what we were sold about the women's movement, that we would be happier when the data shows quite opposite. And then you look at the issues that we have today with dismal and terrifying birth rates. We went from one in eight couples struggling with fertility to one in five. Michelle (27:50) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. That's crazy. Yeah. Rosanne Austin (27:54) I think the average woman today, I think the number was hovering about 1 .7 children per woman. That's not even sustainable population growth at this point. So there are so many things that, and there's so many things that go into it. I'm not just saying that it's because we all become masculine. There's also plastics in our food. There's also glyphosate and rampant, overuse of medications and all kinds of Michelle (28:06) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rosanne Austin (28:23) you know, fluoride in the water. I'm gonna put my tin foil hat on right now, people can see it. But it's actually not, yeah, I mean, there's just so much stuff that has changed, but you can't deny that our attitudes have changed. And you know, women are having babies later. And I think that's a beautiful thing, but it also is indicative of a systemic cultural shift to say that, well, you don't have babies until... Michelle (28:29) The radiation, everything. Rosanne Austin (28:50) You've made this much money, you've had this much education, you've done X, Y, Z, you've published this number of papers. It's, in a sense, like, I really feel like women have been conditioned away from having the highest degree of choice. And it's heartbreaking. And then when women finally are in their 40s and they're trying to have babies, they go into the fertility world hearing that the window is closed. Michelle (29:18) Mm -hmm. Right. Right. Rosanne Austin (29:18) and too bad for you. So it's like, it's like you can, you find yourself getting to this place where you're saying, well, is this all there is? Because having babies is not just a fleeting desire, it's a longing. And if it was made, let's just say like it's a passe idea to be at home, have babies and pursue a happy home life. If that was just passe and everyone's beyond it, tell me why the fertility industry is a multi -billion dollar industry. People still want it. This is why you have women getting to 45, meeting the right partner, and then longing to have a baby because it's innate in us. It's innate. It's fascinating. It's super, yeah. Michelle (29:55) Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It is fascinating. And the fact that you're really looking at the research and you actually have numbers and percentages, that is what is so cool about this. And I think also, you know, all the messages that we get, you know, you're too old, but did you know, do you know what the highest, the Guinness Book of World Records, highest naturally conceived and birthed child, highest age? Rosanne Austin (30:35) No, what maybe in the 60s? Michelle (30:37) You're going to love this and you could use this. Use this all you want. And I know you will because it's so freaking good. 58. 58. And it's a woman from the UK, Dawn Brooks, I believe was her name, and from the UK of all places where there's a lot of deficiency in vitamin D. But yeah, yeah, she did. And then I think about, actually, I remember Tori Quisling had mentioned Rosanne Austin (30:46) I love it. Michelle (31:02) She didn't mention the name, but she had mentioned how one person breaks the record and then other people hear about that and then all of a sudden they're breaking the record. And that really goes to the Roger Bannister effect where they said, there's no way you could break that four minute mile and then one person breaks it and then four others do within a couple of weeks from that. Rosanne Austin (31:15) Mmm. But yeah, but that's also like a scriptural reality too. I mean, you look at ancient books, you hear about women being fertile at times, whether people choose to interpret that as a metaphor or not is their business. But you hear about women being able to do miraculous things very late, allegedly in life. And so this is why I wanted to write the book because I find that when women tap back into their femininity, Michelle (31:28) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Rosanne Austin (31:53) They tap back into the love of self. They tap back into self -care. They tap back into their truest desires. They speak them, they rest. Instead of doing what they should do, they do what they desire to do. It drops the level of stress and puts them in a more receptive yin mode. And then we see women, I mean, I've seen this in my own practice. You see women who were given single digit odds. Michelle (32:01) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Love that. Rosanne Austin (32:22) going and getting pregnant with ease when they go, they tap back into their nature. You know, it's just, it's fascinating. So like I had a woman that was in my program who was 52. And what was interesting about her was that she had this longing. She had this longing. She had, you know, she was a successful business owner. She was like, I just don't feel like my life is complete. Michelle (32:27) Thank you. Rosanne Austin (32:50) I am intended to be a mother. I'm intended to be a mother now. And she pursued this child. And now her son's like probably a year and a half old now. Like it's just fascinating. And what it required for her to get there was tapping back into that feminine desire. So my objective in this book is to educate women about what the feminine is, show them how it has been. programmed out of us and ultimately what to do to reclaim it. Because we see that once you improve your self care, the stress level goes down, the data shows consistently that when cortisol levels are high, it takes longer for women to get pregnant and it negatively impacts results in controlled environments like IVF. Like they've seen this. They've even tested hair samples. women with the highest concentrations of cortisol have the biggest struggles. And it's just wild. And so when you think about this from a mindset perspective, and you think about the very masculine messages women have gotten about what success means, it's like when you change your mind about what success looks like, and you start looking at it from a feminine perspective, then you can start changing the game. and you can heal yourself, you can heal your fertility, and you'll do that through a more open mind, more receptive, look at different opportunities and different things that come up. So it just gives us the ability to tap into our innate feminine nature so we can do the innately feminine fucking thing that we're trying to do. So yeah, so that's the essence of what the book is about. And... Michelle (34:36) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (34:42) Women can find the book anywhere the books are sold and it'll be out August 2nd. Michelle (34:50) I love that. And so question, as far as momentum goes, because I know that when we're in a path, we're on a path and we just keep going, going, going and say we're like on a masculine path or we've been conditioned, I find that it's just like you start to take a momentum and it's very hard to switch gears and shift back, even if it is our nature. So just if anybody's listening, what are some of your thoughts or anything you want to share about like really getting to that place of switching gears. Rosanne Austin (35:22) Okay, one of the greatest ways to switch gears is to look at your fucking results. If you do not like your results, you have to have the humility and the open heartedness to say, what I am doing is not working. And to say that from a loving perspective. Like I don't look at things not working or mistakes or things that have happened in a negative way, right? They're just new. Michelle (35:34) Mm -hmm. misalignment. Rosanne Austin (35:46) Yeah, and it's just, it's more nudges in the right direction. So if you don't like the result that you're getting, then you have to ask yourself, what isn't lined up here? What can I do better from a loving perspective, from the perspective of commitment to what I say I want? And one of the first steps is how connected am I to my feminine? Or what is my thought process? What are my thoughts telling me? you know, are my thoughts sounding more like a man, like, mm, you know, wagging the finger saying, you're not enough, this is stupid, why are you doing this? It's decidedly more masculine, right? When we're in our feminine, there's gonna be nurturing that's saying, hey, hey, babe, you know what, this isn't working. Let's look at something, some other options, right? It's decidedly different in energy. So number one, if you wanna switch gears, look at your result. From a completely dispassionate place, just say, hey, is what I'm doing working and if it is not, what can I do differently? That's like the first step is that level of awareness. And then the second step would be to decide to be different. Now I know that that may sound vague, but in some ways it kind of is because for everyone the pursuit is gonna be different. What do I need to do different is gonna look different for everybody. I come from the perspective that it all starts with us. It all starts with the mind because when your mind is lined up, then you'll do the right physical things. You'll pursue different things like your work. You'll pursue different avenues and a constellation of new opportunities will show up because you were different. So number one, look at the result. Number two, give yourself the opportunity like, hey, what can I do differently here? Truly from a place of, hey, I'm super committed to what I want. and I wanna get there. So if I can love myself enough through this process and give myself plenty of runway to try things, it's more likely that I'm gonna get there than if I keep my narrow vision that there's only one way to get there. Because the feminine is all about the meandering. It's all about the exploration. And... Michelle (37:59) Yeah. Rosanne Austin (38:02) You know, if it was as simple, Michelle, as a sperm and an egg coming together, then not one of us would suffer on this journey. But we know that, you know, everybody's different and the journey is nonlinear. So it's like, open yourself up, try something new. Try the feminine fertility here. See if that works for you. Because I've seen women around the world tap into this power and create insane results. And it's my sincere hope that women listening will do the same. Michelle (38:15) Right. I really think that you're doing the right thing for your purpose. Like I really do. I feel like you are truly activated and doing your purpose and working your purpose because I feel like you're really making so many transformations happen. And I see it. I mean, it's literally happening around the world and it is a movement and this is why I love you so much. And I could keep talking to you for hours. I know you have to go. I would love it if you just tell people how they can find you. Otherwise, I know the book's gonna be everywhere. Books are sold, right? Rosanne Austin (39:07) Yeah, yeah. Well, I love you too, Michelle. And I really appreciate the support that you give to my work. And we're such a great pair because our work is so synergistic. And it's just fantastic. And I'm really honored to share that with your audience. And here's the thing. I like to encourage women, look, trust yourself. Trust yourself. You have this ability to do this and there's nothing to be afraid of when it comes to the feminine. The feminine is your fertility superpower and the feminine is not just pink and sparkly shit. It's going to be expressed in your own unique way. And the sooner you make up with her, the sooner that you make her okay to be back in the room, she's gonna be your BFF. She is your fertility BFF and she's gonna show you the way. Michelle (39:51) I love that. Rosanne Austin (40:00) So I'm really excited to get this out in the world. I really hope women receive it with the love that it was written. And yeah, thanks for having me on. Thank you for sharing this. Michelle (40:06) Beautiful. thank you so much for coming on. It was awesome. Rosanne Austin (40:13) Thanks, Michelle, bye!
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EP 300 Can Mind-Body Techniques Improve Pregnancy Outcomes? | Naomi Woolfson
27 ago· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Naomi shares her personal fertility journey and how she discovered the mind-body link in fertility. She emphasizes the importance of mindset and emotional well-being in the fertility process. We discuss the concept of toxic positivity and the need to embrace and process uncomfortable emotions. Naomi highlights the science-backed positive psychology techniques that can reduce stress and improve fertility success rates. Mind-body techniques can improve mental health, relationships, and overall quality of life. Naomi emphasizes the importance of feeling good and finding joy during the fertility journey. She shares the power of hypnotherapy and emotional freedom technique (EFT) in shifting beliefs and accessing the subconscious mind. Takeaways The mind-body link plays a crucial role in fertility, and mindset and emotional well-being are important factors to consider. Toxic positivity can be harmful, and it is essential to embrace and process uncomfortable emotions. Science-backed positive psychology techniques, such as mindfulness and hypnosis, can reduce stress and improve fertility success rates. Mind-body techniques not only improve fertility outcomes but also enhance mental health, relationships, and overall quality of life. Managing stress and finding joy during the fertility journey can improve overall well-being and increase pregnancy success rates. Hypnotherapy and emotional freedom technique (EFT) can be powerful tools in shifting beliefs and accessing the subconscious mind. Challenging medical assumptions and seeking second opinions can provide new perspectives and options for fertility treatment. Feeling good and having positive emotions can have a significant impact on fertility and overall health. The Embrace Fertility Method offers a comprehensive approach to fertility support, incorporating various techniques and personalized guidance. Guest Bio: Naomi Woolfson, of Embrace Fertility, is a trauma trained therapist specialising in supporting women emotionally and energetically to conceive, carry and birth the babies they long to hold. Alongside supporting clients globally in one to one therapy and coaching sessions Naomi runs an online 12 week mind-body group programme guiding women through the 5 steps of her unique Embrace Fertility Method; Comfort, Coping, Connection, Clearing and finally Creating. Naomi hosts the Embrace Fertility podcast offering emotional support and sharing mind-body techniques to help you feel calm and confident and ultimately find yourself again while waiting for your baby. Personally Naomi and her partner went through almost 4 years of infertility, IUI’s, IVF, anxiety, surgery and a miscarriage before conceiving both of their children naturally. Visit www.embracefertility.co.uk for instant access to Thrive - A deep dive into the science backed mind-body techniques to emotionally and energetically thrive while trying to conceive. 3 x 30 min videos. Naomi also offers specialist pregnancy support and runs the hypnobirthing course Embrace Bump to Baby of which the first week is free. Instagram @embracefertility https://www.youtube.com/@embracefertility https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-woolfson/ For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Naomi. I'm so excited to have you on today. Naomi (00:04) Thank you for having me. Michelle (00:06) Yes. So I would actually, first of all, love if you could tell your story because I know you've been through your own fertility journey. And I also, of course, I'm going to be very excited to talk to you today because as you know, this is like I nerd out on like the mind, body and just like how the mind works. And so I'm really excited to have you on. And then I just wanted for you to introduce yourself and give us your background. Naomi (00:34) Yeah, so I went through infertility myself. We ended up having four rounds of fertility treatment. I was actually diagnosed with endometriosis as a teenager and told that I would probably need IVF to have children. But got married and I was like, nope, that's not gonna be me. I could be one of those women with endometriosis that just gets pregnant and it's fine. And I was very into the law of attraction and the secret and... manifesting and set those intentions. I just set the intention. I was like, we're ready for a baby now. Come on. And then nothing happened. And then, you know, I was manifesting, I was doing my vision boards, my affirmations. And instead of getting a baby, I got ovarian cysts and ended up needing to have surgery. And they were like, you really, you know, really push you like into treatment now, like your endometriosis is getting worse, like every month you're not getting pregnant. endometriosis is spreading. So I had a laparoscopy, they removed the cysts, did some laser action on the endometriosis, did treatment, didn't work, did more treatment, didn't work. And I was getting more and more anxious, more and more depressed. I was like, this isn't how it's supposed to be. And was feeling awful. And then found out about the mind body link and learned that it wasn't the fact I wasn't getting pregnant. Michelle (01:34) Hehehe Naomi (01:57) that was causing the anxiety and the panic attacks. It was my thoughts about the fact I wasn't getting pregnant. And this blew my mind because I was so interested in meditation and the law of attraction and all these things already, but I'd never really put that together. I was like, all right, so that means I don't have to wait till I get pregnant to then be okay. And they're like, yep, that's it. And I was like, no, don't believe that. That, just no. And then as I was practicing mindfulness, like really getting in touch with what was going on and the beliefs I had about pregnancy, the beliefs I had about my body, came to this place of acceptance and actually felt happier then than I ever had in the past, even though I was yet to be pregnant. And then actually our fourth round of fertility treatment was successful and I got pregnant, but then I miscarried. Michelle (02:47) Mm. Naomi (02:54) And instead of going back into depression and anxiety, I actually felt hopeful for the future and then conceived naturally three months later after the miscarriage and then have my daughter naturally two years later. And so throughout all of this decided that I had to share these techniques. So I actually left my career in design while I was going through IVF, retrained as a hypnotherapist and was actually working and supporting women in this field like two years into my journey and then it was like another two years before I got pregnant myself. Michelle (03:29) That's such an amazing story. And I love it for so many different reasons. And again, I apologize for the background noise if anybody's hearing that. but it's, it's incredible in so many ways. You know, the book I thought about when you were talking about that, have you ever read Man's Search for Meeting by Victor Frankel? And that blew my mind because I think that we are so conditioned and I think it is kind of like second nature to say, okay, well, Naomi (03:45) Mm. Yeah. Michelle (03:55) We can't possibly feel good if we're going through something that is difficult. That book specifically was like the most extreme of like what you could possibly go through. He was, you know, in a concentration camp. I mean, so you can't get worse than that. And the way he discussed about how we have one freedom that's left over, and that's the freedom of how we choose to view things. And I think that is so profound because I really do feel like people think that they have no choice. So how did you finally, not just realize this, but also because you could realize it and you can hear it. And then sometimes you can fight that. So how did you like surrender to that and say, okay, you know, there's maybe, maybe it is how I'm looking at it. Cause that's a hard thing to go through. Naomi (04:50) Yeah, and it was very much that I did fight it because my friend actually bought me that book like while we were going through Yeah, and I was like Why aren't you giving me this like well, that's depressing literally just put it on my shelf and I was like I'm too depressed to read something because it was so triggering and was and I was like I you know, I can't read that and it wasn't until like years later that like picked off the shelf and I was like this is what Michelle (04:55) This book that I just mentioned? wow. Naomi (05:18) that's why you wanted me to read it. But at the time I just wasn't receptive to that. But also with when people first started saying to me, it's like, you can be happy even without a baby. And all I could hear in that was them telling me to stop wanting a baby. And I was like, I've wanted a baby since I was like two and a half and my mum had my younger brother. I can't switch off me wanting to be a mum. who I'm supposed to be, that's what I'm supposed to be. I really believed that. I was like, I can't turn that off. And then it was as I got deeper into it, they're like saying, they're not saying turn that off. They're saying stop desperately wanting it so much and believing that that's the thing that's suddenly gonna make everything okay. Because it's also they now I'm supporting women, they get that positive pregnancy test and they don't go, amazing. Well, I feel amazing now. Michelle (05:47) Yeah. Naomi (06:11) just a whole new set of worries come in, a whole new set of anxiety, because then they're like, well, now I need to get to the eight week scan, now I need to get to the 12 week scan, so here's a 20 week scan. Whereas if you can learn to come to that place, and I think for me, it was a combination of mindfulness meditation, journaling, emotional freedom technique, really exploring what my thoughts were doing to me. Like my thoughts were literally making me physically sick. Michelle (06:17) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Naomi (06:40) having panic attacks, I wasn't sleeping, my digestion was all over the place, I had IBS and it was because of my my thinking I was making myself ill and it was only when I really sort of started to accept that that I could start to change whereas to start with was like no I just need to get pregnant as quickly as possible that will fix the anxiety I won't have panic attacks anymore once I'm pregnant, it'll be fine but obviously then it was months and months and months more of trying to conceive and it's living in that discomfort where you don't need to. So that's what I talk about a lot. It's like you don't have to live in this waiting zone of limbo. You can be happy now, you can be joyous now and still really, really, really want a baby and still be doing all the things you need to help you get pregnant, but not have that desperation and that like, if this doesn't happen this month, the world will end. Michelle (07:37) Yeah. I mean, what you're saying right now is so profound and true and important because I think that part of it is just how we've been conditioned just as a people. I think everywhere, modern day times, everything's a quick fix. And really the outside is revered as like really the material world is revered as like the end all be all where in ancient times they've always pointed us internally. Go within, go within, go within. The answer is within. And now you tell somebody that they're like, what do you mean? Like within, I want to get, let's be realistic. Okay. You know, so what's, but what is reality ultimately, right? But a reflection of our internal world, but we're trying to fix the reflection. I mean, this is really how I see it. There is a reflection. We know this also with quantum physics. There is something to that, that Naomi (08:15) Thanks. Michelle (08:35) everything that happens outside of us is really reflection. And that's not, I just want to say this, not to blame anybody. This isn't saying that it's your fault or anything like that, or that you can control everything. Not at all, but that internal world does have an impact really on your life. And I think that it's often overlooked, it's often ignored, and we get so hyper -focused on really what I would call the reflection rather than going. within and starting from within where that in tandem is really beneficial. So not that the outside means nothing and it's just an illusion, but it is really important to address the inside. And I think that you're saying that you can actually feel happy and at peace while you're going through something difficult would be very hard to believe for a lot of people. And this is what I love is that you have been there. It's not like you're just saying, you know, hypothetically, it would be really like easy for you. No, you know, you actually went through this and discovered it on your own journey. Naomi (09:44) And I think that's so interesting is like, you know, now I have my two kids, they're both ginger, they're both born in June. It's like, it literally, the way it turned out, even though it took more years to happen, what I wanted has now, now exists. I wanted ginger babies, I wanted them to have June birthdays so we could have a giant bouncy castle, you know, garden birthday party. These things all happened, but now there are other things in my life. that test me in the same way. And it's remembering, it's like going, you know, we'll feel happy and relaxed, like when we get to this point or, you know, summer holidays are a few weeks by a lot, we're just going to just get through these few weeks. And again, it's like we're rushing through life instead of being like, well, where's the joy in today? How do I want to be today? And instead of just being like, here's my to -do list, I'm going to plod through and cross through these things off. And it's like, well, no, every day. Michelle (10:21) Hehe. Mm -hmm. Naomi (10:42) can be that gift and can be that, how do I wanna show up? And so it's like, you learn these techniques and it's not just to get you pregnant and then you're like, brilliant, pregnant now, can throw all this in the bin and move on. It's like, it's been constantly helpful throughout pregnancy, throughout labor, while the kids were tiny, like now they're starting to get bigger, you know, it's more dealing with the emotional storms that they're. Michelle (10:56) Mm -hmm. Naomi (11:09) going through rather than physical things like when they were younger. And so it's having these tools and techniques to fall back on each time and being like, they're my rock, like they're my foundation of how I do life. And so then if I don't practice them and kind of fall off the wagon, and then I'll really notice that. And it'll be like, you know, if you haven't brushed your teeth, you can really feel it and you're like, my teeth don't feel quite right. I feel the same now. It's like, if I don't meditate or don't journal, Michelle (11:24) in. Yeah. Naomi (11:38) or I walked in the woods, I'm like, just my mind feels a bit icky, a bit like, I'm not, what's wrong? I haven't been for a walk. I haven't flossed my teeth. You know, it's that same, like, sort of, just something feels a bit off. Michelle (11:43) Young. Yeah. And I think that, we almost don't realize like how off we feel until we start to do things that are good for us. And then we're like, this feels really good. And I can't really go back because then that doesn't feel right. And I think that that's what it is. I feel like meditation is like mental hygiene. It's like Naomi (12:09) Yeah. Yeah. And it's so often people are, they get really busy. And so you're like, I'll drop that. And I love that quote that it's like, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're busy, you should meditate for an hour a day. If you're really busy, you should meditate for two. And I just love that because it's so true when we get busy, we're like, we drop the things that are really good for us and can allow us to traverse the busyness and the things in life. in a much more elegant way. Michelle (12:38) Yes, totally. It's almost like when you're taking, I always look at the branches and the flowers and everything really comes from the root. And if you're ignoring the root where everything comes from and really not feeding the plant itself and nourishing, how is it supposed to sprout? How is it supposed to flower? You can't expect it to do that unless you're taking care of it. And I think that we need to, we must. care of ourselves, like in every way. If we're expecting things from our body, if we want longevity, I mean, that's really the core of vitality. For sure. And then let's talk about, okay, so we hear, and this is a pretty common thing in the fertility world, you know, this idea of, obviously there's science -backed positive psychology, which we know about, and then there's something called toxic positivity, which isn't as helpful. And then what happens is, which I find to be a shame, is that sometimes people get so like turned off. by that, that they're not even willing to look at the science which actually can in fact help. Naomi (13:47) Yeah, definitely. I think because there's this whole kind of culture of, if you just relax, it will happen. If you just stop thinking about it, if you just like the best yet, it's like, if you just stop trying, then you'll get pregnant. And I always used to say, it's like, this isn't going to be an immaculate conception. Like if we stopped trying, there will be no baby because we're not trying. And what people are trying to communicate is stop being so desperate. Stop like desperately Michelle (14:07) Right, right. Naomi (14:16) grasping for what you want, but if you tell someone who really wants something to stop wanting it, or you tell someone who's really stressed to stop being stressed, or you tell someone who's really worried to stop worrying, all you're doing is adding another worry, another stress, onto that list because now they're like, hang on, you're basically now saying that's my fault that I'm stressed, that I want it too much. And saying to a woman who's like, I was so Michelle (14:32) Mm -hmm. Right. Naomi (14:44) sure I wanted to be a mum and I was so ready and I couldn't understand how my husband and I when we were newly married We had like our home, like we were all ready to go and it wasn't happening for us. And I couldn't understand why like babies were being sent to other couples who, or you know, single men who weren't ready and didn't actually even want a baby. That was so confusing to me. And so then people saying to me, it's like, stop wanting it so much, like just stay positive and stick a smile on. And when I started researching into more, it's actually really, it can be really negative for you. to try and remain positive all the time, because we're not designed to stay positive all the time. We're actually hardwired to notice the negative more than the positive to keep us safe. we're literally like primed like the whole time checking. And then if you take that, and it's also where like, we shouldn't really call any emotions negative. If we feel emotions that feel uncomfortable in the body that we label as negative. we like shove them down and we're like, I don't want to feel like I don't want to feel. And so we try and numb out, scroll on our phones, like, you know, drinking, partaking in habits, like watching TV that we don't really want to watch, like all these things or comfort eating, things to kind of numb out these feelings and we shove them down. And all that happens is they build and they build and they build. At some point they'll come out. For me, it's panic attacks. For other people, it can be like a burst of rage or it can be just like bursting into tears in a meeting. because there hasn't been an outlet to feel, experience, embrace those emotions that you're feeling. And once you start doing that, I can feel petrifying because so many of us, since we were like small children, you fall over, you cry, and you're told, you're okay. Don't cry. Stop crying. Here, lolly or here, have a toy. Here, be distracted. Swallow that pain down. No, we don't want to see it. That's not welcome here. And so when we start, Michelle (16:30) Right. Naomi (16:41) And a lot of the time the emotions we have, yeah, you're like, it's not okay for me. You know, I shouldn't cry, especially if it's like, if you're like really probably ugly cry like, you know, and you're like, like. Michelle (16:42) It's that judgment. You feel that judgment. I between. I only have an ugly cry. I almost wish I was one of those people that just like has a straight face and a beautiful tear. Nope. Naomi (16:56) I guess you see my... little tear. It's so raw and it's so animal. We're not used to allowing ourselves to really express ourselves in that way. And this is why I love emotional freedom technique, that you're literally using a technique that says, I embrace and accept all of this stuff. It's uncomfortable and I don't want it, but it's part of me, therefore I accept it. And as soon as we accept something, the resistance to it lessens. And then we're like, maybe that isn't as... Michelle (17:24) Yeah. Naomi (17:31) awful as I thought it was going to be and you can just sit with things a little bit. I've gone from a complete to a complete, but yes, so with toxic positivity, you're kind of basically going like, I'm fine. Everything is fine. Even, literally even women who've like had a miscarriage haven't told anyone, still gone into work, done these massive presentations and they're like. Michelle (17:33) Yeah. Yeah, keep that smile on your face. Naomi (17:54) and then they wonder where they get home that night, go completely batshit crazy out their partner and have a full down meltdown and it's like it had to come out at some point and you've let it build and build and build instead of giving yourself the time and space to go I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna feel this now. Michelle (18:14) Yeah, it's so important. And I've really like, I love the book, The Untethered Soul. He talks a lot about leaning into those uncomfortable emotions, because our knee jerk reaction is to stop anything that doesn't feel comfortable or good. And that is where the blocks happen. Because what we're doing is we're not actually removing it. We're actually keeping it in place by like not allowing it to process and to, I feel like it's like emotions. You have to almost digest it so that it can go through and be processed because it's important to do that. But I love that book because he describes it in such a clear and easy to understand way on how you lean into it. Basically, you just sit with Naomi (18:48) Yes. Michelle (19:07) So it's not this internal denial of emotions. what's the science -backed positive psychology that you were referring to? Naomi (19:17) Yeah, so a lot of my work, so my training is in cognitive hypnotherapy and everything, the training I'm in was like look at those studies, look at, you know, what's the evidence behind this? So we can obviously experience these techniques ourselves, see what many clients and seen the shift, seen the transformations that happen when they use these techniques and we do this work. but I love going to the studies as well to really back up and go, because so many people are still like, that's really woo woo, that's really like out there. And I'm like, we've got studies. So some of them, to share through the negative ones to start with, are that women undergoing infertility treatment experience the same level of stress, anxiety and depression as women who have cancer, HIV or heart disease. Michelle (19:51) Mm -hmm. love it. Naomi (20:09) So this is a real serious thing. This isn't like, I'm a little bit stressed because I can't have a baby. This is like massive, huge stress caused by the fertility treatment. So however stressed you were in life before this point, the treatment itself is adding to it. So in the post -traumatic stress disorder can develop in a third of women after miscarriage or eptopic pregnancy. Michelle (20:14) Mm -hmm. Naomi (20:34) and women who've experienced at least one unsuccessful IVF cycle and had depressive symptoms before continuing treatment experience the lowest success rate, which is probably one of the most depressing statistics I've ever had. You've had treatment to help you have a baby, it hasn't worked, and then if you start getting depressed about it, the next treatment has a lower chance of success. It's just such a depressing statistic. Michelle (20:47) Mm -hmm. Naomi (21:03) So of every statistic, I'm like, well, let's find the flip side of that. So that's a percentage of people. This study is saying this. Of every study, I like to find the flip side that backs up what that's saying, but with the positive or the opposite information. So that's where we come to things like using mindfulness is effective in reducing anxiety in women going through infertility by 76%. Michelle (21:06) Mm -hmm. Naomi (21:32) and reducing depression by 46%. Using hypnosis during embryo transfer can significantly improve IVF success rates and implantation rates. Depression, anxiety and stress among couples using emotional freedom technique was significantly less than those not using it. And the studies that show by practicing mind body techniques, you can actually double your chances of pregnancy success. And they've shown that women going through the mind body studies at the IVF Boston Clinic, we're just having a better success rate within the six months that followed of them practicing these techniques. So this is kind of a slow burn. These aren't like, meditate for a day. You're going to get pregnant. This is more like, this is a lifestyle choice that I'm then implementing. I'm making this part of my, my life for the next few months. And then you're going to be improving your Michelle (22:17) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Naomi (22:29) chances and I've done a little, let me show you that. So these are the things that mind body techniques decrease are anxiety, depression, stress, anger, worry, jealousy and fear. And it improves quality of life, your relationship with others and yourself, resilience, hope and pregnancy success rates. So it's very much like the pregnancy success rates always say is like the cherry on the top. All the other things are like, that's what we want to be focused on. We're getting you happy. managing stress, getting you to feel really good. And then a pregnancy is like, yay, that's the extra bit, but we're doing this for you and your wellbeing. It's like getting you feeling good, improving your quality of life during this time allows you to then be making decisions from a place of confidence, calm confidence, rather than a place of fear. Like I felt like I kept going into treatment because I was being told that was the only option for me, that that was the best option for me. And for the first... three rounds of treatment I did, I was so stressed, I hated it. And it was just so, so hard. And then I started practicing these techniques. So the fourth round of treatment I did was a breeze and so, so different from the three before. Then I got pregnant naturally anyway. So it's like, but it's having these techniques that made what I was going through, it just felt completely different on that fourth round. Michelle (23:42) Mm -hmm. Yes. And also, I don't know if you've heard of the study about laughter therapy after transfers improves the chances of pregnancy mean, that's pretty wild, like that endorphins and laughter and being in this kind of state that's elevated could really impact that ability for it to stick. And then I suggest for people to do it really throughout the IVF, like just... Watch comedies. Don't watch anything too heavy. Lift your emotions I'm like a huge fan of Dr. Joe Dispenza's work and I've been going to and he talks a lot about the studies and really the two main things that they deduce from everything, from the techniques that he does, the two big things are your thoughts and your emotions. So it's not just your thoughts. This is kind of like the emotions are sort of like that magic ingredients that activates the thoughts. That's why some people have a hard time with just doing affirmations because when you're just thinking or saying the same thing over without any emotion tied, then it's not as effective. So having a heightened state of emotion is what really impacts a lot of what happens in our bodies and how our bodies respond. people really overcoming major, major diseases that they are told by the experts cannot be overcome because that is working through that material world versus the quantum, which is really where our minds, the worlds of our minds, that is the thing that we can access that we can't access through the material world. Yes, we could try to do things. We can... take things out and do the surgery and do all the physical things that we need that take a little longer and are more dense. It's a more dense approach, not to say that it shouldn't exist. But then there's the other non -dense approach, which is the mind and coming to that place where you're able to shift things in a different level. Just like you said with meditation, you want more time, meditate longer. That's because you're going to a place where you're able to, I believe, make magic and so elevating that emotion and now we know really with studies like the heart math, I'm sure you've looked into that, right? Heart math and how our hearts and brains have a coherence. Well, Chinese medicine has been saying that for thousands of years and then we know that the heart impacts the uterus. So having that heart and now we're seeing it in studies. I mean, all the things that you're listing are pretty much pointing in that direction, how we feel in our life, how we feel in our world. And I think the biggest thing that you said that was just so spot on is that you can actually feel good while going through these things. Like that is the biggest like, my God, because I think that a lot of people don't really realize it. This is why I want to repeat that again, because you can feel good. You could thrive. Naomi (27:02) Yeah. Michelle (27:05) while you're going through this journey. Naomi (27:08) I remember that like once I'm actually crying like tears of joy and still trying to conceive I kind of remember what happened it was something like really small thing like I think I was just sat in the park and the sun was saying and it was so beautiful and I just sat and I just had a little cry but of joy and I don't think I'd ever cried from from joy before and it kind of was like wow that this feels so powerful, I'm so overcome with positive emotion right now that I'm having this massive physical reaction to it. And I was just like, that's pretty special. That's pretty special that I'm now so open and I've managed to clear all of, because before I used to have this ongoing repetitive thought of like, what if you never get pregnant? What if the endometriosis just gets worse and then... you have to have a hysterectomy and then that's it. Like, you know, it's like the thoughts were just this, they're like churning, churning. I'd like to wake up in the morning and my thoughts would just, would just be like attacking me. And it was then when I learned it's like my thoughts aren't deliberately doing this to make me feel really ill. They're doing it because they're trying to protect me what my, my inner self is. So do quite a lot of parts work with hypnotherapy. So the part of me that was petrified that I never get to be a mom. So it was telling me all these thoughts and telling me like, Michelle (28:15) Mm -hmm. Naomi (28:33) Get on it, do more treatment, like do more acupuncture, do more herbs, do all the things, do it all today. You need to think. And then the part of me that was like, it's gonna be okay, like I can walk this path, I can do what I need to do to support myself. It's gonna be okay. And when I could get myself into this place, I could see things like the sunset and I could be touched by that instead of being so blocked off by the light, the fear and the worry and the just. Michelle (28:57) Mm -hmm. Naomi (29:03) what if never and everyone else has that and I'm getting left behind and how does that, how do I traverse that? And it's like just bringing yourself totally back into the present moment and being like, and sometimes that's so hard. Like meditation for me was almost impossible to start because I just sit there and my mind would be like, yay, you're really listening now. Let's give you everything. And like only just so much. Michelle (29:08) Mm -hmm. Yeah. All the fears. Naomi (29:29) yeah, all that stuff. So emotional freedom technique for me was amazing because I remember saying that intention. I think we were about a year into trying to conceive and I set the intention that what I wanted was a way to turn off my mind. I was like, I'm going to be able to turn off my mind. I just want to press a mute button and just have my thoughts be quiet. And meditation didn't work for me like that. Like so many people are like, we just learned to meditate. That just didn't happen. It just, my thoughts got louder. Whereas with EFT, because I had a process and a way to work through the thoughts. I remember the first time I had a kind of blank mind of just quietness and I was like... Michelle (30:02) Hmm. Ha ha. Naomi (30:09) too far away from what I was capable of at the time. Michelle (30:13) So that's interesting. That's actually really good information because I know a lot of people have a hard time with meditation. Although I do think you could get there through meditation, it is a little bit more torture. Like if you don't do other things. So I think that that's a really good thing for people to hear is maybe to look into emotional freedom technique as a sort of in -between to get you from point A to point Z. So you're able to really get in there and feel more peace while you're meditating. Naomi (30:27) Yeah. Yeah, to support the work you're doing alongside. Yeah. Michelle (30:44) quick question just for don't really know as much about hypnotherapy, like why is it so powerful? what are the things, because I know because I'm trained, but like the subconscious mind, talk about like the beliefs that are in there that are so like lodged into the makeup of our being that they almost take over our free will and talk about why it's so important to have those types of therapies to shift those really ingrained beliefs. Naomi (31:20) Yeah, so I think for me, like to set it with a story. So for me, because I've been diagnosed with endometriosis and that was due to incredibly painful periods, the beliefs I had that I just wasn't aware of were my body is broken. You know, I have endometriosis, therefore, like I had this, even though logically and on the surface I could say, I'm not gonna need treatment. You know, we're just gonna have our babies naturally. I think I was really holding that belief of like, you know, a doctor, person in authority had told, so, you know, like a man in his like fifties had told 19 year old me, you're probably gonna need IVF to have babies. Like, you know, buckle up, that's probably what's gonna happen. And I'd like taken that on as a belief. And so for me, it was working through, and I didn't trust my body because of the endometriosis and because of the pain I'd experienced, I could only link like, pregnancy and birth with a lot of pain because people had said to me, giving birth is like, you know, period pain, but like a thousand times worse. Whereas because I had period pain that had meant, you know, I'd nearly passed out from the pain that I'd nearly rang, you know, an ambulance to come and collect me because I collapsed on a walk. So in my head, I was like, that's period pain. Birth is worse than that? God. Whereas then now I've given birth twice. One birth was pain free. One birth was Michelle (32:22) Mm -hmm. Naomi (32:44) painful but only for 15 minutes because she came in such a rush and birthed herself, I was in labor for 40 minutes. I now know the people that said, you know, labor was like pain, but worse. One probably hadn't practiced hypnobirthing and weren't like prepared for what their body was going to do, but also probably had like little tiny cramps that were like, little thing, not like massive endometriosis cramps. So for me, it was unpicking all these beliefs of what, what Michelle (32:59) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Naomi (33:12) my body meant like what my fertility meant and they can be like yeah like you said like deep inside that we're not even aware of but they impact the way we think the decisions we make the behaviors we have and so for me like whenever it was my period i was so used to just taking painkillers pushing on through my cycle ended up flying from london to glasgow and back for a one -hour meeting on the first day of my cycle and i haven't made traces and we were trying to trying for a baby. So I was obviously massively disappointed that I wasn't pregnant, had horrific cramps, took a load of painkillers, got on this plane and I got home at, you know, like nine o 'clock at night that evening. And I was just like, what am I doing? Like I'm just pushing, pushing, pushing myself for my job. Like why on earth didn't I just say I can't fly up that week? Obviously, you know, I didn't feel in a position at the time to go, I'm probably going to be getting my period then. But it's like, I should have, you know, it's like now, if I was in that position, I would be like, I have endometriosis, that's not gonna, that's not gonna work for me. That's not, I can't, I can't basically. Physically, I'm not gonna be able to do that. It's gonna need to be shifted. Although saying that, I wouldn't say that now because now, now I don't have really painful periods because I've dealt with all the things with my period. So that's something to say as well. It's like, Michelle (34:06) Yeah. Naomi (34:35) I just accepted that I would always have incredibly painful periods. And then when I worked with an acupuncturist, when I worked through the beliefs I had about my body and about pain and about rest, I was then having pain -freeperiods. The point I would like get my period and I'd literally be like, whoa, what's that? because I had no cramps, I'd had no buildups. I literally be like shocked when I saw red, because I'd just be like, I wasn't, Michelle (34:39) Hmm. Mm -hmm. great. Naomi (35:02) Yeah, it was such a different experience. So we need to, if you can really get to inside, and this is the joy of hypnotherapy, that we can access the subconscious mind in a really safe way and be like, what's in here? What are the things that are not serving you? What are the beliefs that we can choose to let go of and choose to install new beliefs? So in the latest trauma training I've done over the last couple of years, I'm actually taking the beliefs you have, removing them and installing new beliefs. And that like absolutely fascinates me. And in the space of two weeks, clients being like, this is how I feel. This is what I believe. This is what I'd like to believe, but that's complete BS. Not a chance. I don't believe it. And then we do the work and by the end of the two weeks, and then they're kind of like, yep, I am like, yep, that's my new belief. That's new way of. thinking, feeling, experiencing the world literally in new thought pans that then changes their behaviors, changes the way they make decisions about, you know, not just their fertility, but their relationships, their work, their health, all these areas. And it seems so, it seems so simple to me because I'm in this work all the time, but obviously people are really like, my God, like this is huge. Like I don't, I used to believe this and I believe this. my God. And I'm like. Of course. And it's like, and they're like, it's massive. Like one client said it was Superman, like supercharged, these thoughts and like just like completely defeating Luke. Michelle (36:31) amazing. Naomi (36:41) Lex Luthor when she never thought that would be possible whatsoever and just changing that just being like God Michelle (36:46) Yeah, I love that. Because, you know, thoughts give power and then they can also take away power depending on the thought. And also when you talked about like an older man, an authority figure, you know, how you said your experience was with your doctor. Keep in mind when you're trained in hypnotherapy, they talk about that. They talk about one of the things that can hypnotize people. is because when you see somebody as this authority figure and you view them in this high regard, which we do a lot of times with behind their names or after their names, then we could give them our power and allow whatever they're saying to have absolute authority over us. And that could be in a sense, hypno session right there, Naomi (37:39) Yeah, and yeah, it's like you need to be, I think, love the work we do. We're not hypnotizing people, we're de -hypnotizing them. And we're bringing you back out of the trance state that you've been living in, like especially around birth. And we still set up society, society's just set up to basically tell us birth is to be feared, birth is painful, birth is all these things. That's not true. And so we can... Michelle (37:46) Yeah, my God, I love that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Naomi (38:06) de -hypnotize ourselves Michelle (38:08) I love how you put that because it is, it's kind of like waking up, becoming more conscious in our life, becoming more conscious of our power and what we really can do for ourselves. And I think that that's, that's the biggest thing. I really feel very passionate about it because I myself have had times where I felt completely powerless in my life and I believed a lot of things about myself and my body. And so I think that when you come out of that, you're like, everybody needs to know this. Like everybody needs to know, you know? And I think we have that in common. Naomi (38:43) I think that's what's so exciting because I work with so many women that are like, my doctor's told me this, as if it's a fact. And I'm like, have you got a second opinion? And they're just like, well, no, but they work on Harley Street and they're top of their game. And I was like, you might want to get a second opinion on that. Then they go and get a second opinion. And they're like, no, they've told me, actually, that my results don't mean that at all. And I'm like, hmm, hmm. Michelle (38:54) Exactly. third opinion. There you go. Yep. Naomi (39:11) Because when you work with so many women in this field and people have very similar stories and like medical backgrounds, for example, and so you can be like, well, this person was told this and now this person is being told this, like, let's just not take that as, you know, that is what is. Especially when it comes to age or medical conditions like endometriosis, PCOS. Michelle (39:19) Yes. you Naomi (39:37) there was some doctors that very fixed in this then means this. And it's like from, you know, my case on paper, I wasn't supposed to get pregnant naturally twice, but I did. They can't explain it. There wasn't anything medically different. But it's like, it happened when it happened and then it happened again. So it's like, why was that? Michelle (39:42) Bye. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. But so first of all, I can keep talking to you for hours. I think that we have a lot in common. We are very into, the power of our minds and empowerment and really kind of like setting people up for empowerment. So for people listening to this, I'm sure a lot of people are really fascinated by everything that you're sharing. How can people find Naomi (40:24) Yeah, so the best place to find me is on Instagram. That's where I hang out, have a lot of fun on Instagram. So just embrace fertility. My website is embracefatility .co .uk because I'm based in England and my podcast is basically embrace fertility everywhere. I run a 12 week course, the embrace fertility method, sharing the techniques and some of the techniques I've been talking about today. So emotional freedom technique. mindfulness, CBT, hypnotherapy. And then I also work with clients one to one for a minimum of 12 weeks support. So everyone that works for me does the Embrace Fertility Method and then can add those sessions on. And yeah, just come say hi on Instagram. Michelle (41:10) Awesome. Naomi, I love talking to you and I'm so happy we connected and thank you so much for coming on today. Naomi (41:20) Thank you for having me, it's been fun.
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EP 299 Which method should you choose to track your fertile window?
20 ago· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
In today's episode, I'll be discussing different methods to track your fertile window, highlighting the pros and cons of each. We'll explore: Smartphone apps for tracking cycles Ovulation predictor kits (OPKs) The fertility awareness method Basal body temperature tracking Cervical mucus observation Wearable fertility trackers Hormonal urine tests By the end of this episode, you'll have a clearer understanding of how to accurately determine your fertile window and optimize your chances of conception. If you’d like discount codes to Mira and other helpful fertility resources, you can visit: https://www.thewholesomelotusfertility.com/fertilityresources Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Follow Michelle on Instagram @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ for more tips and updates. For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Transcript: fertility window [00:00:00] On today's episode, I'm going to talk about different methods that you can use to track your fertile window, which ones are good and the pros and cons of all of them, because I know that this is actually a very common question. And a lot of times I actually see patients, when I first see them, we find out that they weren't really having sex at the right time. So they were waiting too late or they weren't tracking as well, or they thought that it was exactly a certain time and they didn't have it any other time. So I do find that a lot of people get confused exactly as to how to track their fertile window, when they should have sex. And I think that one of the biggest reasons why people get confused is because of the movies, those comedies and shows that we've seen. They make it seem like it's like within an hour, that's the time to have sex and you got to go and let's go. So, I am going to talk about different ways that you can track your [00:01:00] cycle and the pros and cons for each. So the first thing that I'm going to go over is Over is smartphone apps. So just apps basically tracking your cycle and you can find lots of those people use like low or flow. You can find tons. The list goes on and yes, even though by themselves. They are not the most effective thing. You can use them as a tool to help you track your cycle. And what I love about them is that it is like a really nice app and it makes it easy to put information down and store information, but like anything, it really depends on the type of information you put in, how detailed it is, and also not relying on its algorithm, because if you are only putting your, Time of your period and basically tracking the first day of each period it's going to automatically generate an algorithm Where [00:02:00] it guesses what your fertile window is now It's pretty obvious why that would be a problem because some people might ovulate early and other people might ovulate late So, how does this algorithm possibly know what's going on with your cycle? So that is basically where if you used a loan, it definitely does not give you enough information and enough data. And so I have seen many people, mistake their fertile window by just relying on the apps. So I do want to mention that the apps are great, but it just all depends on the kind of information you put in there. and how you use it. So it could be a great tool, just really depending on how it's used and also not being used solely as the only way you can find your fertile window. So the second way that people use, and I say people, because it's not necessarily what I recommend, although again, if it's used in [00:03:00] conjunction with other things, it can be a good tool. And that is ovulation predictor kits. So basically you can find them At drugstores and grocery stores, you can find them really everywhere and you'll find things like clear blue digital ovulation tests, first response ovulation tests, many different ovulation tests out there. And what they do is they will only measure one hormone and that is luteinizing hormone. What luteinizing hormone is, is it's a hormone that gets released from your pituitary gland in your brain. And what that does is it basically your brain has its own pulse and cycles, and when it releases that, LH, which is luteinizing hormone. It signals the ovaries to ovulate. The problem is, is that these ovulation predicting kits are only showing the prediction based on the [00:04:00] brain. And the hormone that's released by the pituitary in the brain, but that doesn't tell you whether the ovaries responded or not. So it really doesn't confirm ovulation, but it does give you an idea of when your brain is trying to signal for the body to ovulate. where that could be an incredible tool is if you already have confirmed other ways that you are in fact ovulating every single month. So most likely if you already confirmed that you're ovulating, it's a great extra tool to get an idea of when you're moving towards that direction, get an idea within that month that your body is trying again. So since you already confirmed it and you see that you have a rhythm and a pretty normal cycle. So then you can use it as a tool, but again, this is not something that I would recommend using alone because it just doesn't give you the kind of information that you want to know and it doesn't really confirm ovulation and it doesn't confirm it with other[00:05:00] hormones. So the third method, which is, it's really a couple of methods within one method, which goes under the fertility awareness method, although that is one style and it's a specific method of looking at the body. But in general, It pretty much teaches ways to understand and read your body and your reproductive health and your cycle and to understand what's happening based on a couple of different measurements. , so the measurements used are, a lot of them are based on different tracking apps. So it's similar to what we talked about before, but Kendara Ovia fertility and Daisy, and then a lot of these have thermometers that actually come with them and they sync up with a phone. So it makes it a little easier. It's just one less step to basically taking your temperature in the morning. And having to put it into the phone. So this does it automatically for you. , so according to this [00:06:00] method, there are many different ways that you could look at your body. recognize if you're within the fertile window, the first method of really understanding your full cycle. And I recommend doing this at least a couple of times or a couple of months, meaning so a couple of cycles is tracking your basal body temperature. And you can do that with a basal body thermometer. You don't necessarily have to have one that's Bluetooth and that connects to the app. Not necessarily. You could use the app just to input information and data. And that is where the app can be very helpful because you're putting the information in there. And then you start to understand more or less what that big picture of your menstrual cycle looks like within a month. There are definitely conditions that make the measurement more accurate. And one of them is sleeping for at least three hours before you check your temperature. And you cannot check your temperature in the morning after you [00:07:00] get out of the bed. So you can't get out of bed before you check your temperature. So the first thing you do in the morning, you wake up, and hopefully you were sleeping at least three hours before you checked, and you didn't get up to go to the bathroom within that three hour time. and hopefully you also wake up around the same exact time. However, I suggest not to let that discourage you. If you don't wake up exactly the same time, don't let that discourage you because you're still going to get a lot of good data. It may not be as accurate. And so with this, I want to say that there are certain things that are ideal, but they're not absolutely necessary. It's not absolutely something that you need to do. So one of the things that would be ideal is that you'd wake up around the same time every morning. Another thing that would be ideal is that you were sleeping for three hours. Now if you happen to wake up and go to the pee and then came back, I don't know, an hour, hour and a half before, [00:08:00] don't let that stop you. because it's still going to give you some data. So it's really progress over perfection. And you know, you don't want to like be paralyzed by the perfection, have everything perfectly or nothing, because that's going to stop you from really tracking. So ideally, Besides the three hours before you wake up, besides having it exactly the same time every day, you also want to, and I say this ideally because it's not an absolute must, but you also want to keep the thermometer. It's a digital thermometer in your mouth for five to 10 minutes before you actually turn it on, because that is going to give you again, a really, really good accurate read. So those are the big guidelines and that's going to help you to really get a good picture on what's happening in your body. And typically you're going to want the first part of the cycle, which is the follicular phase. And that is day one of your menstrual cycle. That's your first [00:09:00] day of your full bleed until the day of ovulation. That is considered your follicular phase when the follicle grows and is preparing itself to release the egg and ovulate. The second part of your menstrual cycle is the time of ovulation until the first day of your next cycle, or it just keeps going if there's pregnancy. And that is called your luteal phase. So the luteal phase should be about 98 degrees. So you'll find that it's going to go from the follicular phase being like 97. And it's going to be like 97. 1, 97. 3, 97. 2, 97. 5. You know, it might go up and down a bunch of times, but it's going to stay generally speaking around 97. The luteal phase after ovulation will increase and it increases. It's a little bit more of a yang time. Well, the first part, which is the follicular [00:10:00] phase is more yin and more cooling. The second part, which is the luteal phase is going to be around 98 degrees. If you see that your period is late and you continue being 98 degrees and it doesn't go lower, there is a good chance that there's pregnancy. If that is unusual for you. And this is why I. I highly suggest looking into tracking for a couple of months because once you do that, even though it can be a little bit more work, it's going to give you so much information and you're going to be kind of like your own little experiment to, looking into your own rhythm and how your body is processing, whether it's moving and pulsing in a regular rhythm or it's irregular and something is a little off. So it's going to give you a lot of insight on what's going on. And it's also going to give you an idea of generally speaking, especially if you are regular, when you're ovulating. So you might ovulate a little early or a little late, [00:11:00] but you'll really get familiar on your exact cycle. If you do this for a couple of months, another thing that can help you know if you're within that fertile window is cervical mucus. So the fertility awareness method, they teach a lot about for a cervical mucus and it'll shift and change really. And there's peak cervical mucus that happens around your ovulation that is the egg white consistency that everybody talks about. So before that you'll still have mucus, but it's not going to look quite as slippery. So it starts out a little bit more like lotiony and then it starts to get more and more moist around that time. I would definitely highly suggest drinking water because it is pretty much a lot of it is made up of water. And it need, you need a lot of water and hydration in order for your body to produce more cervical mucus. So that is like kind of one little trick that people don't realize is that it's important to be hydrated [00:12:00] during your ovulation. It is a very yin time. This is when you have all the cervical mucus and lots of fluids. So yin is all about moisture and it's all about fluid. So you want to help your body out. So not just drinking to hydrate, but you can also eat foods that have water. So lots of vegetables that retain water because your body's actually able to really hydrate when you have food that has water. So if you don't have food that has water and it's too dry, your body will need more water. It's much easier if you have that hydration also from food. Other fertility signs that they look at or, fertile window signs are position of your cervix and feeling whether it is soft or firm. So you can actually put your fingers and feel your cervix. But I remember when I first heard it, I was like, what? So I tried it and it was really fascinating because you do feel around the time [00:13:00] of ovulation or when you're fertile, it feels soft. It feels like lips. And when you're not in your fertile window, it feels like the tip of your nose. So you feel almost, more like a, like a hard plastic. Now that is totally optional. Some people prefer not to do this and some people want to really look into everything. I think it's a good thing to try just so that you could really understand your body and then you could really feel the difference because it's pretty fascinating the contrast between the times that you are fertile and when your body's not in that fertile cycle. So the pros are, I personally believe that, this method can give you a lot of insight and it really does confirm your ovulation because you can see it in the temperature and the temperature needs to be consistently elevated and then you know that you're definitely in the luteal phase and that you have in fact, ovulated. So it does give [00:14:00] you a little bit more detailed information. It is something that also can tell you whether your temperature is off. If you're too cool. Which is something that a lot of times if you're seeing an acupuncturist, we can help because we can increase yang energy in a person's body. Also, if you have a short luteal phase, which is pretty common, we can increase young herbs, you know, give herbals. to increase that. So it really depends. Obviously, if you have a short luteal phase, it's not necessarily always yang deficiency. So it is something though that we can take a look at and really get an idea of what your body would need in order to regulate your menstrual cycle. So I find this method to be great, not just for seeing what's going on, but also in working with other people, especially people who are familiar with it, like many acupuncturists or maybe even functional medicine doctors or naturopathic doctors. And the [00:15:00] cons would be that it is a strict method and it takes a little bit more time and you have to be really consistent. , it's not as bad as it originally feels like in the beginning because I consider it like brushing your teeth. You brush your teeth, you don't think twice and it's just a habit. So it could be something that you'll eventually just do effortlessly. In the beginning it might take a little more time and a little bit more intention in your day. but over time it gets a lot easier. So some people look at this and they think it is way too stressful and it's not worth it. It really depends on you. I always suggest, try it out one month, two months. If it's so stressful that you're just like, I can't, then it's not worth it. And other ways to do this is a wearable fertility trackers. So they have these bracelets or armbands. Many different companies do this and what they do is they basically monitor [00:16:00] your skin temperature and some of them even monitor your heart rate and there are many benefits to it because they require very little effort on your part. All they do is they basically track you and in the morning they connect with the app. and they record all of that. So there's not a lot to do with that. The only thing is, is that they do tend to get expensive and so that's something to consider. And some people complain that they feel uncomfortable. I've had some patients that use the aura ring and they love it and that could also be used for, monitoring your fertile window. So that's an option. So there's also something called obvious sense, which personally, not the biggest fan of, you have to keep it in your vagina all night and it might be really uncomfortable. , plus I just, I don't know, I don't know if it has radiation. You don't want to put that up there. I know with [00:17:00] other trackers, it measures, and then it will only emit radiation when it's connecting with the phone, but I just, I don't know. This one specific way or method just doesn't seem like it would be comfortable for me, so that's my opinion about it. And it's also something that is expensive as well. And There are hormonal urine tests that you can take Monthly, so one example, which I love and I will be putting this in the episode notes I have a link to a discount is with Mira and Mira is a device that basically measures urinary progesterone The LH, which is what you'll find with OPK kits, but it also measures urinary progesterone, which you'll measure in your luteal phase as well as estrogen metabolites. And it has a 99 percent accuracy. And so you pee on a stick and it measures it throughout the cycle and it connects with the [00:18:00] app and then it gives you a really pretty chart and you can share that with the people that you're working with, any practitioners. I have a lot of people, a lot of my patients showing it to me or people that I work with online. So I love the fact that it measures multiple hormone levels and gives you a really nice picture of what's happening. It also can predict fertile days based on your normal, , rhythm, and then it also can confirm ovulation. So you want to make sure that you actually did in fact ovulate and by measuring urinary progesterone, you are getting that confirmation. So I guess the con would be that it is expensive and you will need to buy multiple refills. So it can be expensive and continuously expensive. So that's one of the drawbacks. I personally love it because it gives you a really nice picture and it is something that you can really measure hormonally, what's going on and get a map [00:19:00] throughout your cycle. And if you do that for at least a couple of cycles, that's another thing that can really give you a lot of information. Other hormonal tests are. Inito and then you can also look into something called Proov or Oova and they do pretty much the same so you can look at all of those and just really get an idea of the pros and cons. , so those are the different methods that you can do. The ones that I recommend personally, if you really want to get an idea of what's going on with your body and really optimize the fertile window is to really do, I think, a little bit of all of them. But the ones that I would say do not miss is the method where you do your BBT charting and you really start to look at your cervical mucus and really understand your body. I definitely highly recommend doing that for at least a month or two. And if you don't like doing that, Then I definitely suggest either the wearable fertility [00:20:00] trackers or the urine hormone tests. But the ones that are more than just the LH, the ones that are like Mira, Inito, Proov or Oova where you can track progesterone metabolites and other hormones to see what's happening and get a clearer picture of your overall cycle. And then, of course, having somewhere where you can record your information and input your data, but not relying on the algorithm. And also, the LH is great, but it's much better if it's in combination with other hormones as well. So if there are any other questions that pop up in your mind as you're listening to this, I am so open to coming up with lots of different ideas for podcasts. If there are questions that I haven't really addressed that you're wondering, you can always reach out to me on my Instagram. And my handle is at thewholesomelotusfertility. You can DM me. for listening. [00:21:00] And I would love to hear from you. If you have any questions, I can always consider that for a future episode.
So thank you so much for tuning in today and I hope you have a beautiful day.
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EP 298 Is This Normal? Changes in Relationships on the Fertility Journey
13 ago· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
In this episode, I will discuss the question, "Is it normal for relationships to change on the fertility journey?" Navigating the fertility journey often brings significant changes to relationships, especially between partners. The emotional and physical strain of frequent doctor visits, unexpected news, and the frustration of unanswered questions can be overwhelming. Men and women often process grief and stress differently, which can lead to misunderstandings and feelings of isolation. Many couples choose to keep their struggles private, adding to the challenge. This journey not only affects the primary relationship but also extends to interactions with family and friends. Understanding and patience become crucial as partners try to support each other through a deeply personal and often isolating experience. Takeaways: Fertility challenges can significantly disrupt life and cause emotional strain. Partners may process grief and stress differently, leading to misunderstandings. Many couples choose to keep their struggles private, adding to isolation. Sharing experiences with a supportive community can be healing. Fertility challenges can put pressure on intimacy, turning it into a task. Effective communication helps in understanding each other’s perspectives. Family and friends may unintentionally add stress with insensitive questions. Setting boundaries with well-meaning but uninformed loved ones is important. Couples therapy can be beneficial even if the relationship isn’t in crisis. Recognizing that relationship changes during fertility challenges are normal. It is okay to decline emotionally taxing events like baby showers. Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Follow Michelle on Instagram @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ for more tips and updates. For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Transcript: [00:00:00] On today's episode of, is this normal? We are going to be talking about. relationship changes when you're on the fertility journey. And this is actually something very common that I see with lots of people that I work with, and it can be really confusing. And so I wanted to address topics that people come to me about and really reiterate the fact that yes, this is normal. This is actually very common for relationships to shift when people are on On the fertility journey, and then, of course, I'm going to give some tips and some things that you can do in order to make that a little bit easier. So, although I don't love this word, the I word, the infertility diagnosis has been compared to a cancer diagnosis, when couples are going through this really difficult journey of fertility challenges, it can really throw a person's life upside[00:01:00] down. And I'm sure if you're listening to this podcast, most likely you are on the fertility journey yourself and completely understand what that is like from the inside out. It can be disruptive in the sense that you have to stop what you're doing and go to a bunch of doctor's visits and then get news that you weren't really expecting to hear, and then sometimes get the news that there is no known understanding for why things are happening, which could be very frustrating, confusing. And so basically it can really throw the reality of your life and what you expected for your future with your partner completely upside down. Not to mention the challenges for same sex couples, I mean there's so many different factors or uncovering that you have possibly other underlying health concerns or conditions that you weren't aware of before. Or so many couples go through this [00:02:00] by themselves. Many people do not feel comfortable sharing their experience and sharing the fact that they're trying because quite frankly it's nobody's business and it is something that you're going through on your own. So it's very personal. It's a personal thing and Many times it includes losses, pregnancy losses that people are not aware of. So then you have these different rings of relationships. So of course the most important relationship really ultimately is between you and your partner. And then you have other people in your life that are outside of that circle. Meaning the next circle, the next ring would be your family that you grew up Extended family and then outside of that is friends or people that you're close with So you have lots of different people in your life That you are related to and connect with and not [00:03:00] everybody is going to know what you are going through So it could be very challenging to go through something very difficult privately. The first relationship I'm going to talk about is really the relationship between you and your partner. And this is definitely something that I hear often being addressed and talked about with my patients and my clients, because it is something that a lot of people don't realize. That everybody deals with grief and everybody deals with fertility challenges differently. I even see many of my patients, every single one of them is dealing with them a little differently. Of course it is something that is causing anxiety and fear. This seems to be across the board. But everybody responds differently to what they're faced with. And then the same goes with couples. And the same goes with, especially, How women tend to face it versus men. And [00:04:00] I know we like to generalize, but there is a difference in a lot of the couples that I speak to and how they perceive and approach the fertility journey. Sometimes women will be a lot more emotional and they'll feel things deeper and more primal. And then sometimes the men will work and not really deal with emotions even though they are having emotions. And so it seems like to a lot of my women patients, That have talked to me and I'm kind of like the sounding board so I do know what's going on behind the scenes and They share with me that sometimes they don't feel like they're being supported enough or they will be doing everything by the book Doing all the supplements really changing everything going to the doctors doing all the tests And sometimes they won't feel the same from their partner. They'll try to get them to stop smoking marijuana or drinking alcohol or taking their supplements. [00:05:00] So there are many of those things that do happen quite often. Now, of course, I'm not a psychotherapist, but the reason I want to talk about this is because I do see a lot of couples and I do see a lot of patterns that tend to play out. So I did want to mention this in the podcast episode so that. when you are going through this, that you realize that you are not alone, that this is actually very common and very normal. And it is an extra weight of challenge that you are taking on in your life that you normally wouldn't have to, or normally wouldn't really account for in your life. So this is something that kind of, It comes out of left field for many people, and it could be very confusing. It could be very frustrating. Another thing that can happen besides the communication and besides really feeling like you're on the same page is the intimacy because there does feel like an added pressure to the intimacy. And [00:06:00] You have to have sex at a certain time. And all of a sudden, rather than having something that used to connect you, now it's something that has to be done and it becomes a means to an end, rather than the journey itself. I talk a lot about this. I talk about this also in my book, It really is important to sustain that connection with your partner. And by sustaining it, it means just really spending time. The more time you spend with the person that you're with, the more understanding you'll have. And what I mean by that is spending time doing things that you used to love doing and really nurturing the relationship in a way that for that moment, you're forgetting everything else. But you're really putting your attention towards. nurturing the relationship itself. I can't stress how important that is. And sometimes that means temporarily letting go of any frustrations that you have [00:07:00] with your partner because sometimes we can get into a cycle of blame or difficulties or not feeling heard. And I find that sometimes when we don't focus so much on fixing and instead focus on spending time together, that will create more sensitivity naturally and more compassion, empathy will grow because then nobody is on guard and aren't as defensive. So while it is important to communicate and sometimes even therapy can help. It's important to also remember the things that you love about each other and spend some quality time nurturing the relationship. What I find in general and what I found in my own relationship is that even if I'm frustrated about something, sometimes if I tackle it head on, it makes the person defensive and then nobody gets anywhere. And rather than doing that, spending a little more time hearing each other out, coming into it. With more [00:08:00]softness does tend to help something that I've also found with my patients and the people that I work with is that once they realize that. Men and women tend to process grief differently and also just different people in general, whether it doesn't matter if you're a male or female, tend to process things differently. Then they realize, coming from a perspective that they're having, that it doesn't have to necessarily be the same perspective. And that doesn't mean. That they're not processing the same amount of pain. It's just processed in a different way. And I think once people realize that, and I've had other therapists come on the podcast in the past and I've had conversations with them, and that's like a big thing that they talk about is just the way that people process things is different. When you realize that. That doesn't mean that they're feeling less than you, and that [00:09:00] doesn't mean that they're not feeling anything at all. It really makes a big difference and a shift in the way the couple communicates. So, it is important really, I mean, the big tip here is to spend some time together and create a dynamic where you are listening to each other and working together. And sometimes that means for a moment, having less expectations and just spending more quality time and then creating that bond. Because when you create that bond, you're naturally going to communicate better. So holding hands, spending time together, getting gifts, Typically what happens is when people feel appreciated and loved on both sides, they're more apt to listen, they're more apt to hear, and it is important to communicate those feelings in a way that is So it is important to communicate for sure, and if it is something that you're going [00:10:00] through that's a little more heavy and like really, really difficult and you feel unheard, that is when I would say therapy would be a great option because although a lot of times couples think, Oh my God, if we're going through therapy, that means something is wrong. That's not necessarily the case at all. Therapy could be an incredibly useful tool for the couples, especially when they're going through the fertility journey, and sometimes insurance might even cover it. A lot of times if you're doing IVF treatments, they have people that they can recommend to help ease the process because it's known that this could be a very traumatic process. So I think one of the most important things is really realizing that this is not an easy thing to go through. And whenever you're going through something so huge in your life, it's going to impact relationships. So, other relationships that I wanted to discuss that I hear often about are relationships with [00:11:00]family members, or mothers in law, or the mothers, or sisters and brothers, and oftentimes, these are the big things that I hear. is that the couple simply does not want to talk about their personal life and they don't want to talk about their struggles trying to conceive. And they're often faced with family members constantly asking them when they're going to start a family. And this can be incredibly hurtful, frustrating, upsetting, and challenging really to face because you're sitting there with something in private and you can't address it and then you're being asked about it. And then what's worse is sometimes they do actually talk about what they're going through. It's not a secret, but then they're being given very unhelpful suggestions as if they don't already know that changing the diet is going to be great And then, [00:12:00] of course, just relax and it's going to be fine, if only it was that easy. So, there's a lot of, very frustrating comments that come, and it seems like when people don't really know what it's like, they'll never understand quite how painful it is to go through something like this. And oftentimes, it is very well meaning, but sometimes it can come off as very insensitive. And of course, it's going to be insensitive because unless you're going through it, you're not going to fully understand it. So how can you really, truly be sensitive to the topic and understand it fully and know what to say that's going to make things better? And sometimes, People don't even want to hear anything. All they want to do is be able to talk or be left alone. So that can really put a strain on the relationship itself. And I hear this a lot and it's like certain family members or certain close friends, you know, And they just don't want to [00:13:00] deal with it. When you're going through this challenge, you just don't want to deal with that extra added pressure or extra added stress. So this is actually really common. And sometimes the only solution is creating boundaries or possibly seeing those family members a little less. Now, I know that sounds kind of harsh and I know it sounds almost overly simplistic. However, depending on the relationship, if it is causing you major stress and you're coming home and you're ruminating about it and you're thinking about it and then you're wishing you would have said this or that, and you're just, it's constantly adding an extra added stress to the already stressful and draining process of fertility challenges, then at that point you have to really almost say no to them, say yes to yourself, and look at it as saying yes to yourself, because looking at it in that way, [00:14:00] of self care can shift a little bit of the perspective and make you realize that this is really important for you. You need to protect your energy. Now, in some cases, some people are able to brush it off. It's not a big deal. I really not take it personally. Most cases, that is not the case because it is a very fragile and vulnerable time of people's lives and they just can't deal with this. It's too much. So that is when I say healthy boundaries are really, really important. And yes, you absolutely can and should create boundaries when it comes to your relationship, how people are speaking to both of you, any kind of insensitivity. You have every right to create those boundaries. You not just have a right, but it is really a priority because this is a very difficult time, and I also want to say that you shouldn't feel pressured to let people know what's going on in your [00:15:00] personal life if you're not ready to do so. You shouldn't feel pressured to do this at work. You shouldn't feel pressured at all because it's really your personal process and you should have every right to decide when and if you are going to tell people about your personal journey. I highly suggest to while you're going through this to find a community of people that understand where you're coming from. There's so much healing and finding other people that are going through the journey with you. There's something really miraculous that happens and I've seen it in my own work and I've actually had two women who are going through a transfer at the same exact time with the same doctor. I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast before, but. I happen to come in late on a Thursday to see both of them because they were having their procedure on Friday morning. So I came in late Thursday so that I'll [00:16:00] be able to do like the pre protocol for the transfer just so happened to be that these two women. We're going through very, very similar situations. Both of them were doing IVF because their husbands had testicular cancer and had to freeze their sperm before going through treatment. I knew at that moment that these two women had to meet and I felt like, Oh my God, this is really meant to be. And so it was amazing. So I introduced them that day and I remember going out and Outside and I see them Sitting outside talking in the corner and discussing everything and I of course couldn't tell them What their personal story was but I did say you have a lot in common. You should talk and they became friends and Amazingly both got pregnant. So they're pregnant right now as we speak And I'll tell you, it was really comforting for each of them [00:17:00] to communicate and talk and connect on this because it was something that they both had in common. They were both going through. One of them had had a previous pregnancy with a successful transfer in the past. So she was guiding. My other patient who this was her first time and she was really nervous and she was calming her down. So it was really a beautiful thing to see. So what I found through and through with so many of my patients and so many of my clients, and even in times where I've created little cohorts of group coaching is that people connecting to others has been profound. Having this community of people going through the fertility journey and having this kind of friendship and support. is huge. So this is kind of like the opposite. So while many relationships can get impacted in not the best way, and in many situations you may [00:18:00] need to create boundaries. While that can be so, it's just an amazing opportunity to make new relationships that you will have. Literally for a lifetime, because the bond that you have with other people that are going through the same kind of pain and difficulty and challenges as you is priceless. Another question that I often hear my patients ask, and if it's normal, is when their sister in laws or sisters or even close friends are having baby showers. And they are expected to be there. And in some cases they do not know that they're going through the fertility journey. So this could be incredibly, incredibly difficult. Because it serves as a reminder of what you do not have. And it could be really tough. And one of the most. difficult aspects of this that I hear from [00:19:00] the women that I work with is that it is conflicting emotions. You're really happy for the person and you feel so guilty that it's hard for you to be happy for them. And you're feeling both emotions at the same time and you don't know what to do with yourself. So this is a really difficult time And it's one of the most challenging states of minds where you feel so many emotions at once. You feel grief, you feel sad, you feel jealous, you feel bad, you feel love. I mean, it's just a combination and it's just a crazy mix of emotions. What I would say is you don't have to go. If it's that excruciating and that difficult, you can pass on these events. And if it means coming up with some kind of excuse because you really feel like you have to come up with it, then do it. Then come up with an excuse, make it simple, make it a simple and easy exit.[00:20:00] Of course, you don't want to have to come up with an excuse and you sometimes cannot tell them the truth because they're just not going to understand it. So sometimes you need to do what you have to do to get yourself through this difficult situation. So in those cases, My perspective is that it is okay to say no or to figure out a different way and just to not go. If you are going to be going through an extra added grief and difficulty, then Almost what's the point? What's the point of going? You're not going to feel happy in that situation and you want to be there in a positive way and you can't. And that's okay. And so in that case, I think you can create that boundary and you can give yourself a pass and you don't have to feel guilty for it. So this is kind of like my own reflection, if that means anything or if that makes you feel any better. I personally think that this is something that you can definitely bow out [00:21:00] of and you have a very good reason to do so. So really those are common things that I hear about how relationships get impacted through the fertility journey. So if your relationships are getting impacted and you're feeling a shift, I it is completely normal and very common. And it is something that is going to happen when you start to shift and you're going through your own changes and you're going through difficulties and feeling more vulnerable. You're going to have different needs and you're going to need to also cut out certain elements that are just not helping you. And I will say, It's okay to be selfish. You need to take care of yourself. So really prioritize your self care. When you are going through this journey, you are in a fragile state, and acknowledging that knowing that can help you and it can help you empower yourself because then you know, okay, I need to come up with a different [00:22:00] strategy because typically. new things will come up and we're just going to continue life the way we've always done it. But sometimes we need to shift it based on the demands of this new journey that we're on. Now, most of the time, even though those journeys can be long, I can attest because I've been working with a lot of people, is that it doesn't last forever. But when you are on it, You do need to make some shifts and changes to address the draining of energy that you're going through and to address the need for more self care. So sometimes you can do things like meditate or journal and have a place where you're able to Write down your emotions or have some kind of counseling because it's important to be able to safely process your emotions and connect with people also that are on the same wavelength that are actually helping you in this journey. And I can say that going out of your way [00:23:00] to be proactive about that. will really serve you so much because you need that support and knowing that you need that support ultimately is the first step to empowering your journey. So I hope you got some validation here on this episode because I know really that was ultimately my intention. is to validate what you're going through as completely normal. I see this all the time. It's very, very normal to go through in any kind of process that could be so traumatic and difficult. If you have any questions that you are wondering if it's normal, feel free to DM me on Instagram and my handle is at the wholesome lotus fertility. I would love to hear from you and I thank you so much for tuning in today. Have a beautiful day.
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EP 297 What Our Historical Origins of Being Can Teach Us about Our Fertile Nature | Jenny Powers
6 ago· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Jenny Powers is an accomplished writer, scientist, and athlete. She earned her Ph.D. in microbiology and immunology from the University of Colorado, Denver; her journey as a collegiate basketball player taught her to push physical boundaries even as she continually expanded her intellectual horizons. She is deeply inspired by the exploration of human nature and the study of our ancestors; her role researching and co-authoring On the Origin of Being marks the culmination of this passion to date. Jenny balances her professional endeavors with her roles as a wife and mother in Colorado. In this episode, we discussed the evolutionary mismatch between our genetics and contemporary lifestyles, how this mismatch impacts our health, and how learning our evolutionary journey can help us return to a state of thriving. Her co-authored book, "On the Origin of Being" covers sleep, nutrition, work and rest, and our relationship with nature. Takeaways: Our circadian rhythms, which evolved over millions of years, play a crucial role in our health and fertility. Prioritizing sleep and maintaining a regular sleep-wake cycle supports our natural rhythms and overall well-being. Our modern diet, high in processed foods and sugar, is not aligned with our evolutionary needs. Returning to whole, unprocessed foods can support our overall health and fertility. Processed fats and sugars are prevalent in the modern diet and can have negative effects on health. Fiber is important for gut health and helps regulate insulin levels. Understanding the evolutionary reasons behind our cravings can help us make healthier food choices. Overworking and a lack of rest can have detrimental effects on our well-being. Being present in the moment and finding work-life balance is essential for a healthy and fulfilling life. Website: https://www.ontheoriginofbeing.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ontheoriginofbeing/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ontheoriginofbeing/ Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Follow Michelle on Instagram @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ for more tips and updates. For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Jenny. Jenny Powers (00:01) Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Michelle (00:04) Yes, I'm excited to talk to you about this amazing topic and your new book. And I would love for you to first start with introducing yourself and your background, how you got into writing this recent book about where we came from. Jenny Powers (00:18) Yeah, okay. Well, my name is Jenny Powers. I grew up as an Air Force brat, so I kind of moved all over the country and got to play basketball at the University of Colorado when I studied chemical engineering. But then I went back to school to study immunology and that's what I got my PhD in. studying the innate immune system, macrophages and cell signaling and stuff like that. But I felt while it was interesting and fascinating, I felt like there was just, I wasn't doing what I think was in my heart, which was to be a writer. So when I had my kids, it was really kind of a nice time to make a break from academic science and move into trying to become a writer. And I actually started writing not fiction books for kids, middle grade books for like eight to 12 year olds. So I have a couple of finished manuscripts. Nothing's been published yet. But, you know, I needed some sort of part time easy, you know, kind of fit in my schedule job. And it was incredible that I found this job opportunity with my co author, Luke Comer. He actually was looking for someone to research one of his other books, which is a nutrition book. And when I called to interview with him, he's like, I already found a nutritionist. I'm like, man, you know, this is that's too bad. You know, this sounds like a really good fit for me. And he's like, well, what about this idea? And so something that he had been like holding in his head for the last 10 years. And it kind of started when he was looking at nutrition, like how far away are we from how how how we are living right now? How far away are we from how we evolved to live? And it kind of applies to all so many different aspects of our lives. In this first book, we cover, you know, kind of the basics, sleep, nutrition, work and rest, and our relationship with nature. But we actually have other parts, other books in the series, hopefully that will come out that cover more like social groups and cultural things and all of these things. We're no longer living in accord with our biology and it sounded fascinating to me because there are several parts of that where I had already started feeling not quite connected. So the one that really stood out to me when I was writing this was the work because I was a PhD student and then the postdoc and I worked 70 hours a week and I was exhausted and then I had also, in my late teens, early twenties started suffering from depression and then feeling really connected to the environment, but then seeing what's happening to the environment. So I had already had some of these things like really affecting my life. And when Luke presented me with this idea, he's like, well, what do you think about researching this and collaborating with me for a book on this? I was like, this sounds amazing because not only do I get to use Michelle (03:30) Yeah. Jenny Powers (03:34) my experience as a researcher, but I get to write and I get to write about something that I grew more and more passionate about as I researched it. I like to think that I was, I'm kind of just like a reader at the very beginning when you pick up the book, you don't know anything, right? And so, but so when I picked up this project, it was a total blank slate and it was amazing to be able to have the freedom. to research and write until I learned so much about myself and about why maybe I was feeling depressed and the things that I can do to change. And it felt really good to be able to bring this into the world. And it's been a really exciting ride. You kind of don't necessarily plan something, but you kind of like take the next step. And then there's these like little breadcrumbs that you follow. And... I had no idea when I started this project that I'd be on podcasts and we'd have a book in the world. And it's just been an amazing, amazing ride. Michelle (04:35) I bet. And I'll tell you, I mean, personally, I feel very drawn to this topic and I'll tell you why. I mean, this is a fertility podcast. I'm very much into that, but Chinese medicine is really my background. And Chinese medicine is really, you know, it's interesting because you look kind of back in the history and it's very old. You know, Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years. Jenny Powers (04:44) Mm -hmm. Right. Michelle (05:00) and they still don't really know the origins exactly. They estimate about 3000, but they think it's longer. But there was a lot of book burning that has happened over the years. And it's really based on Taoism, which translates as the way. And the way is living in accordance with the laws of nature and how over time, like when we lose that direction, it can cause disease, dis -ease disease. And yeah, it's really fascinating. So I think it's really cool because this is kind of like modern research on something old, but like coming at it from a different angle, but similar, but it's deriving really at the same essence, which is. Jenny Powers (05:29) Right, right. Yeah, it's at the heart of what you do. Yeah. How the laws of nature, what did nature do to get us here? Because nature, I like to call it nature and evolution, they were like biohacking, right? That's like this big catchphrase nowadays, like biohacking, but you're making small incremental changes over time and then see like what... Michelle (05:58) Yes. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Jenny Powers (06:15) improves how you feel and what doesn't. And so that's what natural selection does. Like the things that improved our survival and improved our, you know, our wellbeing and our equilibrium are the things that stayed and the things that didn't serve us, you know, got selected out. And so I really feel like nature knew what it was doing and it had millions of years and lots of small little incremental changes that made us who we were. Michelle (06:17) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (06:43) for various reasons, for all of the environmental selection and what we needed to do to survive. And yeah, I totally see the ancient, how ancient medicine, ancient peoples, indigenous peoples, how they approach wellbeing. It's not just treating symptoms, it's treating the holistic, the whole body. all of these different things that I think thankfully now more and more people like yourself and your functional medicine doctors and holistic doctors, you know, people who kind of bring the old and kind of combine it with the new. I think that is really where healthcare needs to go. Michelle (07:22) Yeah, it's really fascinating. And I think to myself, like just really how nature is. And what we've been seeing is that fertility has been on a decline and nobody really understands exactly what it is that's causing this for men and women. And there are many ideas of just environmental factors, toxins, like EMFs we don't even see, you know, we're not even aware of what's going on. It's not natural to the body. The body's not used to it. Like our DNA doesn't... Jenny Powers (07:40) Mm -hmm. Michelle (07:50) respond well to it because it doesn't know what it is and it doesn't know how to react. So really the basis of Taoism and all of that is that we in our nature are fertile. Nature is fertile. There's a seed in everything. Everything that grows has a seed because it wants to keep reproducing. And yeah, it's pretty fascinating. And I think to myself, some of the things that you guys wrote about were things that I talk about like sleep. Jenny Powers (07:53) Right. I like that. Michelle (08:18) and the circadian rhythm. And so I would love to really start picking your brain on this because it's really fascinating. It's like really kind of coming home to ourselves and our, you know, the origin of being going back to that origin and how we can do that. Sometimes it feels like an uphill battle. Jenny Powers (08:19) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Michelle (08:35) So even though fertility has been on a decline, that shouldn't make us lose hope because there are definitely things that we can do to bring ourselves back to our origins. So with that being said, I just want to always give a message of hope because there's always something that you can do. It might take a little extra work just because like the stream is a little strong right now in a certain direction that may be kind of moving us away, but there's definitely things that we can do. Jenny Powers (08:44) Exactly. Yeah. Right. Michelle (09:03) And this is why I love your work so much because it sheds light on things that I think are so important. And so let's, let's cover all of it. Let's start with like the first part. And I believe the first part of it is sleep. Jenny Powers (09:14) Yeah, yeah. Yes, that's the kind of the first fundamental way of being that we cover. It was interesting because I've listened to a couple of your podcasts and one stood out in particular to me, the one with Alison Locke. You talked about all kinds of environmental things and sleep and I found myself like nodding along because I was like, well, yeah, health contributes to fertility. But then learning about what you guys talked about in that podcast, I'm like, my gosh, so many. Michelle (09:31) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (09:47) of the things that we talk about in our book can be applied to fertility. Because it's just in order to be fertile and like you said, to access what we're naturally supposed to do, we need to be in a state of well -being and we need to be able to be in equilibrium. Because that's what nature designed us to do. And the very first thing when you started talking about circadian rhythms, I'm like, yes, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (09:52) Totally. I loved it when I read it in your book. I was like, yeah, I felt the same way. Jenny Powers (10:16) Because so many people don't necessarily understand that the very first organisms on Earth evolved for circadian rhythms. Because in the sea where everything started, the organisms knew, like, OK, well, what time of day are the nutrients most available? What time of day is the safest to undergo cell division? You know, you don't want to necessarily undergo cell division when you're at the surface, when the sun shining on you and you might get, you know, DNA damage. So those cells evolved to respond to the rhythms of the earth, because at the very beginning of time, at the very beginning of the earth, there was night and day. You know, we had we had sunlight and we had well, later we had the moon. But so like from the very, very origins of life, we had this this rhythm that tied us to the earth. And so even with the smallest cell. And so every living thing has circadian rhythms, has genes. I mean, someone won the Nobel Prize for, I think it was for medicine, discovering that these genes that regulate the rhythms of your body are in everything. And what's interesting is circadian rhythms are Michelle (11:38) everything in your body or just in nature. Jenny Powers (11:40) Well, everything in nature, but also, I think what's important is some people like, well, we're evolved past that. Like humans don't have circadian rhythms, you know, because we're sophisticated beings. And what's interesting is we haven't evolved away from circadian rhythms, but our culture has pushed us away and our technology has pushed us away. So we might not think that, we don't need these to tell us what to do because. But the problem is our society and our individuals, we override what our body is trying to tell us. We override the signals that circadian rhythms are trying to give us. So. Michelle (12:19) You're speaking my language. I literally say that all the time. We override it. It's, wow, I just love this. Jenny Powers (12:24) Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, I feel like I mean, that's one of the main things in the book is, yes, the modern world is great and modern culture brings so many great things, but we have to be aware of like our bio, like we have to be aware of what our bodies are telling us. And people are so they're so focused on. the future, or they're so distracted, or they want to stay up and watch another three episodes on Netflix and not sleep, or stay up and work until 2 in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And like you said, it all starts with a good night's sleep. And what was interesting when we were studying this is that a lot of the Michelle (12:59) Yeah Yeah, those things are designed to be addictive. I feel like it's like the fast food of like, of shows. Jenny Powers (13:19) Indigenous peoples who are still surviving in these far out, you know, they've been pushed to the fringes, to not even the best, the most hospitable places on earth. They're kind of been pushed to kind of, you know, the places that we didn't want, like the modern people didn't want. But studying them, it's not like they got so much sleep and it's not like they, but what was really important was they were completely in tune with the sun rising and the sun setting and their bodies responded to that. So when you think about nowadays, you know, we get up and we kind of have, there's someone in our book that I can't remember who was, it's like we live a twilight existence, right? We never get the same amount of light that the sun would give us, but we get it all straight through the day, right? Whereas if we were living, according to our natures, we get lots of sunlight in the morning, really intense bright sunlight in the morning. And then it goes down. And then once the sun goes down, there's no exposure except firelight and moonlight. And what was interesting about what I love to know about blue light, because blue light is this big thing right now, right? But but the reason why we're so reactive to blue light is because that is the wavelength of light that penetrated the sea. And so that's where life started. So the reason why we could have been attuned to any wavelength of light, but we were attuned to the blue light because of where our origins were. So getting lots of blue light, sunlight in the morning, but then not getting blue light after it goes down, after the sun goes down, it helps our bodies like reset, like, okay. This is when our melatonin hormone is going to go up. And then once the sun goes down, the melatonin starts to be produced. And then there's this window where you're tired. And if you're listening to your body, that's when you go to sleep. And then if you're in tune with the Earth, the Indigenous people that were studied, they woke up at the same time every day and got that bright sunlight in the morning. So it was just really amazing to see like these people, they sleep on the ground or on some skins and they sleep on their arms. And if you look at the difference, I think there's a picture in the book, like our beds are so comfortable, but they didn't even know what insomnia was because they didn't really experience it. It wasn't a problem. They were so in tune with the natural rhythms of the earth and they listened to their bodies. Michelle (15:59) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (16:07) that they just didn't have problems with sleep. And so that was a huge like eye -opening thing to me. Like you think like, humans have always struggled with sleep. And there are some people who struggle, but that what's really cool about people who have different genetics, different circadian genetics is that, you know, those night owls, people who can't fall asleep till late in the evening and have really have trouble getting up. Michelle (16:14) Yeah. Thank you. Jenny Powers (16:36) that was an evolutionary advantage because there needed to be people to be sentinels to keep the rest of us safe. And because we had these amazing brains, we needed to have really good, high quality, deep sleep. And some of the reasons why, you know, maybe animals in the wild don't necessarily get really deep sleep is because Michelle (16:44) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (17:04) they have to be kind of aware of their surroundings. But humans, we got together into big groups and we protected each other. And so as our brains evolved and as our sleep evolved, we were able to get really dense, good quality sleep in a very short time. And because when you're asleep, you're pretty helpless, you know, especially some of the cycles of sleep, you're like parallel, you're literally paralyzed, your body's paralyzed. Michelle (17:24) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Jenny Powers (17:32) So the people who are early risers or late, you know, the night owls, they're actually helped us survive because they were alert at times when the other people weren't. So I've talked to a researcher and he said, well, oftentimes people who have these delayed sleep phases or advanced sleep phases, once they realize that it's evolutionary and like, it really helps them, like put it into perspective. Nothing's wrong with them. Michelle (17:44) It's fascinating. Jenny Powers (18:01) It's just part of how they evolved. So all that stuff just fascinates me. Michelle (18:02) Right. That's interesting. That is so fascinating. Yeah. It's really interesting. But as you're telling me, it's really the regularity of that. It's that pulse, that rhythm and sticking with that rhythm. And interestingly enough, there's definitely a correlation with circadian rhythm, dysfunction and menstrual cycle health. So, and that's kind of our larger rhythm for women. And that would be an interesting topic for you to kind of go into is maybe make series on this with women's health and the cycles and how that impacts it because it's really fascinating. I mean, we need that rhythm like our bodies really respond to that rhythm of nature. And once it has that really intact, then our bodies get more regulated. I had the same thing myself and this is how I got into Chinese medicine. Jenny Powers (18:34) Yeah. Okay. Michelle (18:53) is because I had irregular periods, but I also had irregular sleep and so many irregularities. And I feel like it's almost like a train getting derailed. You have to put it back on track and then have that rhythm set again. Jenny Powers (19:06) Right? That's exactly right. And what's amazing is that, so in the book, we don't necessarily talk about fertility, but some of the reasons why we have these diseases of modernity, and I guess you could say like infertility and endometriosis, what you and Alison talked about, which was fascinating to me, was that all the things that women struggle with, PMS, pain, mood swings, all of those things are kind of unnatural. Like the big, the severe symptoms of menstruation that women get are unnatural. And that like blew my mind. So, but, but we don't necessarily talk about fertility, but inflammation, stress, you know, cortisol levels, your gut health, all of these things we talk about in the book and all of those things that you talk about. Michelle (19:45) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (20:04) impact your fertility. So getting a good cycle start or getting back on track is like a really good place to start. Because you know when you don't get a good night's sleep. You feel tired and being tired for your whole day just sets everything back. You can't eat properly when you're tired. You don't want to exercise when you're tired. Michelle (20:26) Yeah. And when you're overtired, it's hard to sleep. That's the weird thing. It's kind of hard to get back into that rhythm like one way or the other. Jenny Powers (20:30) Yeah. Because your body is in a stress state. When you have a sleep deficit, your body starts to be in more of a fight or flight. And then your body keeps you awake because there's like, well, there must be a reason why I have to be awake right now. So I'm going to help you. I'm going to help you be awake. And all the diseases that come from, I heard you talk about shift work. People who do shift work have infertility. Michelle (20:38) Yeah, it's very heightened. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Jenny Powers (21:02) You know, shift work has been classified as a carcinogen because of their dysregulated circadian rhythms. Like humans weren't meant to work at night. That's not, that doesn't tell people like, cause shift work is really important. There's so many professions that it's important to, but people who do that just need to be aware so they can compensate for that. It's, you know, it's not like, shift work bad. You know, shift work is vital for some people. Michelle (21:05) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right, exactly. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (21:28) But they need to know that that is going to predispose them to some things and they need to take preventative measures to make sure that their shift works and their circadian rhythms aren't, or their circadian rhythms being not in sync with the earth. They just need to remember that they need to try to mitigate some of the effects from that. Michelle (21:46) Mm -hmm. So when they have breaks getting like more early morning sunlight or something to kind of like quickly anchor them out, like earthing, putting your feet on the earth, like how you were saying, I thought about that when you were saying people used to sleep on the earth and how that lowers inflammation. And then also the natural aspect of really connecting with like soil and the microbiomes that impact our gut health. So let's talk a little bit on the nutrition. Jenny Powers (21:57) Yeah. Mm -hmm, yeah. Okay. Michelle (22:19) aspect of it. So what are some of the things that you uncovered that are really more natural to us? And I saw, I noticed that you talked all the highly processed food and how that is like really not in line with our own digestive system and our body's ability to process them. Jenny Powers (22:36) Yeah, well, if in the book we talk about how from when we have the common ancestor with chimpanzees and bonobos. So we talk about kind of what their diet would be like and how changes in the environment changed our diet. And so, and then changes in the environment and then changes in our diet actually were some of the things that allowed us to evolve bigger brains because when the environment changed, when the great rift came in Africa and split Africa into East Africa and West Africa, the East African side, the climate changed so much. It lost trees, it became more savanna, it became more grassland. And in order to survive, the animals, the early primates that were stuck on that side needed to evolve or they wouldn't survive. They lost their tree food, which was mostly fruits. leaves and things like that. Food became farther apart. So we lost our ability to climb through trees, but we gained bipedalism and stature and being able to hold things in our hands when we walked. And we needed to find new sources of carbohydrates. So we started finding really high quality dense carbohydrates in like roots and tubers and things like that. we really didn't need when we lived in the trees because we had all this fruit to feed our brains. But some of the cultural things that we needed, like now, so now all the animals, there were bigger animals and, you know, on the savanna. And so we had to increase our intellect in order to be able to eat, you know, eat the larger animals and to figure out how to dig up those tubers. So our brain size evolved, our intellect evolved. But then in order to support that brain and our intellect, we had to find the foods that supported the evolution. So like the story of nutrition and the story of evolution, especially the evolution of our brains is so tied together. So, you know, it's like if you talk about nutrition, you have to talk about the evolution of our nutrition if you want to talk about the evolution of our bodies, because our big brain and another... Michelle (24:52) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (24:55) reason why we got big brains is because we were able to, our guts were able to shrink. So we have very short guts compared to other primates. And that's for two reasons. One is you were able to, all the nutrients and resources that are required to maintain gut, your gut can now be shifted over and maintain your brain. But we had shorter guts. So we needed to find Michelle (25:17) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (25:21) more energy dense food that was easier to digest. So we needed to find, we started to eat more and more animal meat and animal fat because those are easier to digest. Plants have things that are like don't eat being here. We need to kind of get rid of some of those things. But again, we got to use our intellect to learn how to hunt these bigger creatures, but also to process food. Like we, you can't eat a potato raw. Michelle (25:37) huh. Jenny Powers (25:50) You know, but we learned how to process food to make it easier to digest. So our guts could remain small and we'd still get all the nutrients that we need, but our brains will still also get what it needs. So we started to process foods. And when I mean process, it doesn't mean like the modern day processing of foods, because when our ancestors processed foods, you know, cooked it or grounded or fermented it, they still ate the entire food. They still ate the whole food. Michelle (25:51) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (26:20) There was nothing that got thrown out. And so they processed the food to make it easier to digest. All of the nutrients of the food came into our bodies. And for our gut health, that was really important. The fiber was really important that we would eat. And so now these ultra processed foods that we have nowadays, there's just no fiber in them. It's just sugar. Michelle (26:20) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (26:46) The consumption of this much sugar, it doesn't have any precedence. Yeah, and yeah, let's not even start talking about all the artificial stuff that gets put in there. So yeah, you were saying like our bodies just don't know how to handle it because over the last 300 years, so the agricultural revolution changed eating forever. But I feel like in the last 200 years since the industrial revolution, things have changed so quickly. Michelle (26:50) and chemicals. Yeah. Yeah. Jenny Powers (27:15) I mean, we're eating, I think we went from eating like four pounds of sugar a year, like 300 years ago, and now people eat 150 to 200 pounds of sugar a year, which is just totally crazy. And something you talk about in the book, it's like we have this evolutionary mismatch because genes can't evolve that quickly, right? We can't rely on our bodies to adapt to this much sugar intake. Michelle (27:26) That's just crazy. Yeah. Jenny Powers (27:45) But something that's really cool about humans is a lot of these big things in our life, big hurdles that we needed to get over, we didn't need to evolve because we have our intellect and because we have culture. And so we could bypass evolution to fix problems. So what the good news about this is we can still bypass our lack of evolution to fix this problem, right? Because if we know But the way we're eating, our bodies literally have not adapted. It takes hundreds of thousands of years for adaptations to make its way through an entire population. But if we know it, we can intellectually make the changes we need to make. So that's the good news. We don't have to be like, well, I wish our bodies would catch up so I can continue to eat this highly processed food. No, just stop eating it. Michelle (28:35) you Jenny Powers (28:40) eat the whole foods. And then you don't have to worry about, you know, that your body's not, that your body's mismatched because now you're now living more in alignment with what your body wants. Michelle (28:41) Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's just so important because it is something that a lot of people are talking about now. Luckily, I think it's becoming like more front and center. For a little while there, nobody even paid attention to it. And it was also as interesting because people were like afraid of fats and everything with sugar. For a I think we were completely as a society blind to it. Until recently, I think people are starting to wake up to it. Jenny Powers (29:01) Yeah. Right? Right? Yeah, yeah, and when those studies came out, that demonized fat. Michelle (29:27) they were funded by sugar companies. Jenny Powers (29:29) Exactly, yeah, because its own findings came out about sugar, but for some reason, the establishment focused on fat. And so, and there is, we do have a problem with fat, not because we're eating necessarily too much of it, it's because we're eating all the wrong kinds of fats, in the wrong ratios. And so, but also we're eating like, the fats we're eating are like, Michelle (29:41) Mm -hmm. right trans fats and yeah. Jenny Powers (29:55) processed fats, you know, vegetable, all these oils that are processed, that you stick some of that oil and all this processed sugar together and pretty much 90 % of the things in the grocery store are made up of these things. The sugar that we never used to eat and the type of fat that we never used to eat, all of these processed fats. So, yeah, I'm glad that now sugar is coming out as being a villain in and of itself, but it's also to say, well, we need, our bodies need sugar. Michelle (30:24) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (30:24) But we need to have it in a form that digests slower, that also that goes into our bloodstream slower, that helps our insulin levels be more regulated. And we need to have the fiber that's still in there to help our gut health. Because if we just eat straight processed sugar all the time, it's like, I read somewhere, it's like, you know, a fertilizer runoff causes these algae blooms. Like one type of algae just takes over an entire ecosystem because it's Michelle (30:28) Right. Right. hehe Jenny Powers (30:53) if that's the one algae that like really liked that fertilizer. But if we're just eating sugar, all the beneficial gut bacteria, they're like, no, I want fiber. But this one gut bacteria is like sugar, sugar, give me more sugar. So you lose, you know, one dominates and you lose the diversity of the bacteria in your gut. Michelle (30:56) Right. Yeah. Well, when you were talking before and you were saying about how they ate the whole fruit or the foods and they didn't take parts, it wasn't like, like it was really eaten with a fiber. So usually the things that have naturally sugar have fiber as well. Most of the time you'll find, you know, fruits, most of them have fiber. So having even the juice of just natural fruits. Jenny Powers (31:31) Yeah. Right? Michelle (31:41) is not quite the same as having it as its whole, like in its whole nature. Jenny Powers (31:45) Right, right, exactly. Because, I mean, it's funny because our whole goal, evolutionary goal, in order to feed our brains with our shorter guts, we needed nutrient -dense, easily digestible food, right? But we took it way too far because when we were doing it right, it was just us preparing the food, right? As soon as we had the technological advancements, for now, now we don't prepare the food. and the industrial complex prepares this food, it's no longer in our control. And so what sells most? The things that are most palatable, the things that are energy dense, and the things that are easy to digest. And so with the advent of technology and the Industrial Revolution, we took that evolutionary goal way too far because it was a goal of ours. Michelle (32:18) Yeah. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (32:41) There is a reason why sugar is addictive because when we ate sugar, as our ancestors ate sugar, you would receive dopamine because you needed to have glucose in your body. Your brain needs it to function. Your brain just uses sugar. Some of the other parts of your body use other things to fuel it, fats and things like that to fuel it. Michelle (32:54) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (33:09) primarily, but our brains need sugar. So there's an evolutionary reason why sugar is addictive. We just couldn't get our hands on it. We ate honey occasionally and we ate fruit. But this much sugar and process and basically like white flour, all the fiber is stripped out of it. That's pretty much just eating sugar because of the way that it just gets absorbed into your bloodstream. Michelle (33:17) That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's empty calories. It's just not really like, it doesn't give you much bang for your buck at all. Jenny Powers (33:42) Right, right, right. But it does give you a release of dopamine and you feel good because we need to have that. But now again, we needed to have this instinct, but now we have our intellect. And so like, yes, we need to have a well -roundeddiet with carbohydrates and fats and proteins. But now we know intellectually, I'm craving that because I evolved to crave it. Michelle (33:47) Yep, right. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (34:10) But I don't need to eat it. Like I can eat other things that gives me the same thing. And I find them, and I've found this and I've heard lots of people say once they start eating whole foods, the cravings for the potato chips and the brownies and the cookies, you just don't have those anymore. Right? Michelle (34:10) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Correct. Yeah, it feels like I think the difficult thing is that it feels like it's going to be forever. The suffering or the discomfort of the cravings or the withdrawal, it feels like it's going to be like that forever. It's really not. I would say two weeks, about two weeks, maybe three, but like really even the first week is a big one. And then once you get through that, you're feeling better. And then once you overcome that, it doesn't feel like anything. You don't miss it. So, and it's just... Jenny Powers (34:36) Right. No. Yeah. Right. I don't, yeah, it's pretty amazing. I don't miss it. And then when I do, you know, have to have dessert, you know, when I'm out with friends or, you know, special occasions, I don't feel very good the next day. Like I enjoy eating it. But sometimes it's almost like, whoa, it's too sweet. But then, you know, you just have to realize, yeah, it's okay to indulge once in a while, but know that you're going to feel awful. But that also just reinforces that you're doing the right thing. Yeah. Michelle (34:58) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it totally does. Yeah. No, I have a lot of my patients when we talk about diet and then they go to a cruise and that's when they feel it. They're like, my God, I never realized like how this made me feel. And then they feel the difference. And I'm like, that's actually a good thing. I'm happy you went through that because it really shows you like you could really legitimately feel the difference from feeling good. When you're used to feeling bad, you almost don't know the difference until you feel good again. And that's kind of like another interesting. Yeah. You don't know better. Jenny Powers (35:29) What? Right? Exactly, you don't know any better. Michelle (35:50) But it's crazy how your body resists too much sugar. And then it starts to get insulin resistance. Like it's literally your body's like, whoa, like stop. And it kind of creates whatever ecosystem response to that. But it just shows you that your body doesn't like it. Jenny Powers (36:09) Right? The majority of the things that people go to the doctor for now, humans never used to get. I mean, humans got communicable diseases, but now we have all of these non -communicable diseases, you know, the metabolic syndromes, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, hypertension, all of these things are solely due to lifestyle. Michelle (36:34) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (36:36) Some people who have genetic predispositions to things. So that doesn't help that the lifestyle that's presented to us, the lifestyle that's marketed to us doesn't help those people either. They have a worst time of it if they're genetically predisposed to some of these diseases. But those diseases just, we never used to die of those diseases. No worries. Michelle (36:59) Hold on one second. Bye. My daughter. Jenny Powers (37:05) So that was another thing. I'm like, you're right. People, if it was a disease that affected everyone in their childhood, we would have evolved. So whatever predisposition to that disease, we would have evolved away from it because the goal of evolution is to reproduce. And if you don't make it to reproductive age, you don't reproduce. So if these problems happened early in childhood, they would have been evolved out because you wanna get to the point where you can reproduce and pass your genes on. But all of these diseases of modernity happen after, you know, after you're fertile, after you have kids for the most part. A lot of it kind of starts, your lifestyle starts, but that's why it's just so prevalent because it doesn't affect our evolutionary success. Evolutionary success is to have offspring, right? Michelle (37:52) Right, right. Jenny Powers (38:04) So it's affecting us later in life and it's affecting our quality of life. So like, yeah, we might still live to be 75, but how many of those years are really good years? Like when do you start having these debilitating illnesses that affect your quality of life? So the hunter gatherers and our ancestors, you know, who we have models of today, if they get past childhood and Michelle (38:17) Yeah, that's true. Jenny Powers (38:33) aren't forced to leave the land and be people, become who they're not with their lifestyle changes. They live very, very healthily into their seventies. And that because they're so healthy, they're contributing members of the group. They're not debilitated to the point where people have to give them. Michelle (38:45) Yeah. Jenny Powers (39:00) resources, they're still in the mix, they're still contributing, and that's because they're healthy. Michelle (39:08) Yeah, amazing. It's interesting how, I mean, just kind of being in your nature, your body responds to living kind of in accordance to the Tao. It's really like, it comes full circle to that. And then speaking of also just balance, let's talk about work and rest and how much we as Americans and really modern culture, I think pretty much anywhere Jenny Powers (39:18) Yeah. Michelle (39:33) overworking and there's barely any time to rest people. I actually just spoke to my cousin. She's been having gut issues and I told her eat earlier because she's been eating like really late every day. She goes, I can't. She goes, by the time I get home at 7 PM, she goes, I cannot leave earlier. I'm like, what? It just sounds so crazy. So she comes home really late and she wants to cook and have dinner with her husband. So it's Jenny Powers (39:52) Yeah. Michelle (39:59) really tough because I mean, it's just insane hours. Like, so how do you even work around that? But yeah, so talk about that and what you've discovered. Jenny Powers (40:03) Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think what's interesting about our ancestors is they didn't have to worry about work and life balance because it was integrated, right? Their work life and their home life, it was all together. So they considered there, and it was another way of looking at it holistically. Like now we think we have our work and then we have our home, but their work was part of their everyday. But they also, Michelle (40:30) Yeah. Jenny Powers (40:36) What was really cool is that they didn't, they worked until they had what they needed and then they stopped. It was a very, someone coined this phrase, an immediate return economy because they didn't, they had such a different concept of time than we do. And they had such, you know, they lived off the earth and they had, they knew that whatever they needed, they would be provided that they didn't. They didn't necessarily plan for the future. They worked until their needs were met. They listened to their bodies and like, okay, I'm not hungry anymore. I'm kind of tired. I'm going to go rest. You know, agriculture changed all that because now we went from an immediate return economy to a delayed return economy. You planted crops and then you waited and everything depended on this future outcome. Michelle (41:14) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (41:30) And so in today's world, we work now and we get a paycheck later. So it's another kind of way that we delayed our return on our investment, I guess. And so the way we look at work now, we never work in the present. We're always working. There's a deadline. There's this, we have this, we have this. And so in the book, we talk about how Michelle (41:36) Mm -hmm. So interesting, yeah. Jenny Powers (41:57) rest and meditation really helps because we can't go back to an immediate return economy. You can't just be like, I've made enough money. You know, I'm going to quit my job or, you know, I'm going to go home when my hours are this. How you approach work can really change the outcomes of work. Like if you're if you stay in the present moment, not only can you you lower your stress, but you can also see what's really important if you're worried about some future. Michelle (42:04) Yeah. Jenny Powers (42:27) project, you're not going to be very efficient in the moment doing what you need to do. So it's kind of a mindset shift. Also, I think our society puts emphasis and puts people on the pedestal who work long hours and who make a lot of money. And so that and who have a lot of stuff. Yeah, we have Michelle (42:36) Yeah, definitely. It conditions, it conditions you. Jenny Powers (42:54) I mean, I think I read it and it's in the book. An entire, I don't know, group of hunter gatherers had fewer possessions than a single farmer after the agricultural revolution. They just didn't have stuff. They didn't. And so once you have stuff, now you're like, you know, you need to buy more stuff and to buy more stuff, you need to make more money. And to keep up with the Joneses, you need to make even more money so you can buy more expensive stuff. Michelle (43:21) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (43:21) and buy a bigger house and then fill that house up with stuff. And then your house doesn't fit your stuff. So now you have a storage unit where you have to put your stuff. And so our emphasis on what's important in our society and what our society values is causing this work epidemic. I also think that people need to learn from an early age not to tie their identity with their achievements. Michelle (43:24) Right. Jenny Powers (43:49) tie their identity with work. Because I think we live in a place where it's kind of a meritocracy, where the people who are successful... are just people and they're just as good, you know, the people who aren't successful, who are working their butts off every day, but enjoying their life, they're still these, they're successful people, right? They're not necessarily like making millions of dollars, but we idolize those people who make so much money. When really they might not have the best work -life balance. Probably not. I mean, I've never heard someone say, Michelle (44:26) Yeah, it's interesting. Jenny Powers (44:29) you know, on your deathbed. I wish I had had more money, you know? Yeah. Michelle (44:32) Right. It's 100 % true. Well, that's because it's an illusion. It's this illusion, you know, and the ancients talked about that, the samsara and the illusion. It's like a matrix. We're living in a matrix. I mean, that's, you know, it kind of is because it's, it's the set code of ways of being, and it causes us to continue moving into the future or thinking about the past and never being present. And the ancients always talked about now. Jenny Powers (44:44) Yeah. Michelle (45:00) becoming more present, more alive. And even with meditation, we know that it really makes your body work better. This presence, being present, having your attention is like gold. Having your attention in the now actually infuses your body with more vitality. And if you think about the ancients, I mean, their focus was 100 % when they were hunting or whatever they were doing, they were present, like really, really fully present. Jenny Powers (45:29) Yeah, exactly. And it's almost a survival. It was a survival mechanism. You had to be present so you could be... And this is kind of dovetails really nicely into the nature chapter because they were present in the moment and they were present in their environment, right? They could say, there was a deer came through here. There's that broken branch or they hear something. Michelle (45:46) Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (45:55) you know, I think that's a predator, we need to go this way. Or they're so attuned to their bodies and to the world around them that they lived in the present moment. I mean, there's this stress reduction theory of nature, that nature, natural environments lower your stress and promote recovery because... Yes, it has information, but has low levels of information that you need to be processing at all times. But when you are downtown in a big city walking around, there's cars driving by and there's people and there's loud noises. And so your senses are overwhelmed with all of these things to process. And now, where's my phone? Now we are overwhelmed by all of this information, all of the things that are just right at our fingertips. Michelle (46:33) loud noises. Yes. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (46:50) So no wonder we're stressed, you know, no wonder. Yeah, we're overwhelmed all the time. Michelle (46:53) We're overwhelmed. It's like too much, too much information all the time and it overwhelms our, our minds. And that's why one of the things that I think is actually releasing is important, especially now. So when we're meditating or releasing kind of like the excess doing less, getting more into this yin phase of less and more harmony and more quiet, that's why we need it because we are in such a young active mode. all the time, nonstop, 24 -7. And that's considered good. I remember, because I lived, I worked in New York and it was like the city that never sleeps. That's amazing. It's like the best thing ever. And I remember what it did to my nervous system. It wasn't good. Jenny Powers (47:29) Great. People brag about it. Thanks. Yeah, I remember when I was in graduate school, we used to compare, well, how late were you up last night? I was in the lab until two in the morning. Well, I didn't even go to sleep last night. It's the hustle culture that's idolized. And what needs to be idolized is the slower culture where you actually enjoy at the moment by moment. I've noticed people always say, time is moving so fast. It's because we don't spend any time in the present moment. Michelle (47:46) Yeah. Mm -hmm. Jenny Powers (48:08) we're spending a time in the future, we're spending time in the past and very few people actually experience every moment in the present. And I think if we experience moments in the present, time would seem slower. Time wouldn't seem to be just rushing by, rushing by, rushing by. And I know when you have kids, it seems that way because you actually see time passing as they're growing up. But I found that I feel like Michelle (48:17) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Jenny Powers (48:37) When I'm less distracted, when I'm more relaxed, when I'm in the present moment, that's when you live. There's no other place to experience life except in the present moment. Everything else is just in your imagination, in your mind. Michelle (48:52) Yeah. And when I work with people, I always talk about that. Like, because if I can, if you can get as present as possible, and it's hard, it's hard when you're trying to get to a goal, you know, it could be the goal is pregnancy or whatever that goal is. But if you can work on getting as present as possible, you are actually infusing life force into your moment to moment. You're more alive. When you're more alive, your body's more alive. When your body's more alive, you're more fertile. So these are things that Jenny Powers (49:15) Yeah. yeah. Michelle (49:21) timeless again, you know, things that we've been told for centuries. And it's always go within, go, you know, where we have that innate knowing that connection with our earth that like, typically our bodies communicating with us. I mean, this is such a fascinating conversation. I could talk to you for hours because it's just, there's so much to uncover. I mean, we're really literally talking about the nature of humanity and like where we came from. And there's just so much. And I can see why you would want to do a series on this. Jenny Powers (49:23) Mm -hmm. I... Right? Michelle (49:51) And I would be fascinated by that in the future as well. But for people who are listening and they're like, this sounds really interesting. How can they find you and get to the book? Jenny Powers (50:03) Yeah, yeah, well, we have a website, www .ontheoriginofbeing .com. There's a link to places there. You can really buy it anywhere, any online retailer that you like, Amazon, Barnes and Noble. There's other places. I know people want to support smaller businesses and things like that. But it's available on online retailers. We are... We have our website and we're also, we have a Facebook page at On The Origin of Being and I'm most active on Instagram at On The Origin of Being. That's where we're, I try to post at least once a day, little tidbits or news or like you said, this topic is so fertile. I don't feel like I'm ever gonna run out of things to post about because even if I'm posting about sleep, there's a million things I could post about sleep. Michelle (50:52) Yeah. Jenny Powers (50:57) There's a million things that they post about nutrition. So it and what's what's been amazing is I was off social media for 10, at least 10 years because it wasn't good for mental health. And when you have a book coming out, you kind of have to be out there a little bit. And so I was really worried. But what I found is there is this community of people like you have like minded people who who see who have their eyes open, who see like, this is the way we're living is killing us. And they are actually, they really, really care about other people and their health. And they really, really care about the environment. And so I feel like there's this community online that I just hope to see it swell even bigger and bigger. I've just, I felt so supportive, supported. And so it's just so nice to meet other people who are going through this journey and who have platforms like you who wanted to want to get the word out. You know, I feel there are these just genuine people who care and that's made my experience of being back in social media and getting back out into the world and promoting this book feel so much more comfortable. Just that that's just an observation that I've had over the last few months. It's really been an amazing experience. Michelle (52:22) awesome to hear. And yeah, it's like anything. Everything has like the pluses and minuses. And I think that that's what it is. If you come into social media, really taking advantage and using it for the good. It's like anything. It's like money. You know, people can say money is evil, but it's actually something that could be used to help a lot of people. So it depends really on the intention behind it. And I think when your intention is connected to purpose, then it's a lot of fun. Then you're like, okay, this is really, yeah. Jenny Powers (52:35) Right? The tool. Right. Yeah. I like that. I like that connections. Yeah, it's totally. It's totally neat. Yeah. So, so we're on there. Yeah, and they just came out this week. I don't know when this is going to be airing, but the book came out this week. I think we've hit some number one, like bestseller statuses on a couple of different categories. And so it's been a very exciting time. Michelle (52:51) sucklings. Awesome. That's great. Amazing. Well, congratulations on the book. And this is fascinating. And I think it's so important because I think that as a society, we're craving to come back to our origins. We really crave that. And I think that we just, we lost it. And so this rekindles a memory because I think that we do store memories in our DNA. There is that kind of knowing that when we hear something, it resonates as true. There's a reason for that. I think it's cause we just, so it's a memory that got just awakened. Jenny Powers (53:24) I agree. Yeah. my gosh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the good news is we still are running our hunter gatherer software. You know what I mean? We still, we have all these capabilities inside of us still. We haven't evolved since, you know, we maybe, for the most part, we haven't evolved since we were hunter gatherers. And it's still in there. We just have to refind, we have to find it. And I think learning about evolution and learning about how we got here, Michelle (53:51) Yep. Yes. Jenny Powers (54:11) will really help us make better decisions now. Because like I said, we can adapt with our minds. We can adapt to anything. We're smart. We just have to do the work. Michelle (54:21) Yeah. Yes. Amen. So Jenny, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and I look forward to any future work that you do. Jenny Powers (54:33) Thank you, I really enjoyed talking to you today too.
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EP 296 Is this Normal? Menstrual Cycle Edition
30 jul· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
In this episode of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle addresses common questions about menstrual cycle symptoms, discussing what is considered normal and what might require more attention. Michelle breaks down the phases of the menstrual cycle and explains various factors that can influence cycle regularity and health. Key Points: Understanding the Menstrual Cycle Normal Menstrual Cycle Range Irregular Menstrual Cycles Common Causes of Irregular Menstrual Cycles Seeking Medical Advice Tips for Supporting Menstrual Cycle Health Resources for the episode: Check out my free ebook: The Best Kept Secrets to Harmonizing Your Mooncycle: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/hackyourcycle Mira: CLICK HERE AND USE COUPON CODE WHOLESOMEFERTILITY FOR 15% OFF! Tempdrop: CLICK HERE AND USE COUPON CODE AFWHOLESOMELOTUS FOR A DISCOUNTED PRICE! Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Follow Michelle on Instagram @thewholesomelotusfertility and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ for more tips and updates. For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Transcript: Is this normal? Menstrual cycle symptoms [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today I'm going to start a new type of series that is going to come every once in a while. And it starts out with, is this normal? Because oftentimes I do get questions, is this normal from my patients? Or sometimes people DM me on Instagram when it comes to their menstrual cycle. So I thought that would be actually a really good thing to do. Idea for the podcast because there are many things that can be normal and there are many things that. might require more attention. So on today's episode, I'm going to talk about what is normal and what is not when it comes to irregular menstrual cycles. So a menstrual cycle in general is not just the period. Sometimes when people hear menstrual cycle, they think of menses or menstruation. And the menstrual cycle itself [00:01:00] starts out from day one, which is the moment a person has a bleed, but not just spotting, but like a full bleed. And so once they have a full bleed that is considered day one of their menstrual cycle. And typically how you would know how long your menstrual cycle is, is because you would mark the first day of a real bleed to the next day of the next cycles full bleed. So whatever time that is, That is the days between your menstrual cycle and so you start out with the bleed and that is the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle where the follicle grows to be ready for ovulation. So typically about mid cycle is when ovulation usually occurs, but of course it's different with every person. And then after ovulation from that point until the first day of the [00:02:00] next cycle or continuous if there's hopefully pregnancy, but that is considered the luteal phase. And typically if you were doing a BBT charting, Just to kind of give you an image in your mind, the follicular phase, the first part of the cycle is about 97 degrees of basal body temperature. And of course it can fluctuate a little up and down. And then the second half is 98 degrees. And. Usually it increases. That's kind of like more of when you look at the yin and the yang. That's more of the yang phase versus the beginning, which is the yin phase. And if you see that the temperature is a little too low or too erratic, those are things that might want to get your attention, maybe to check your thyroid. And go to an OB just to kind of get general labs drawn or a reproductive endocrinologist, which I always recommend anyway, just to kind of get your baseline. [00:03:00] So that being said, that is the menstrual cycle. That's typically, , the different phases of the menstrual cycle. And today I am going to mention what might not seem like a textbook cycle, but it's still within the normal range. So, typically, a textbook menstrual cycle is 28 days between the first day of the first period, and To the second day of the second period, the next period, and that is textbook. And the reason why I say textbook is most of the time people do not follow what is in the textbook. It is the majority of people are around 28 days and usually they will ovulate. Around the middle, like, so about 12 to 14 days is usually when ovulation happens, but that can, that can also shift a little bit depending on the person and within a normal range. So a normal [00:04:00] range of a menstrual cycle can actually be between 21 and 35 days. Although I would say 21 days is short in my book, I would definitely try to extend it a little bit. For me personally, as an acupuncturist, I would like to have it 24 days or more. 35 days can happen and I actually prefer longer than shorter. And the reason is because for pregnancy, you definitely don't want a short luteal phase. You want to have enough time for the egg to mature in the follicular phase and you want to have enough time. For implantation to occur in the luteal phase and if the cycle is too short, you kind of wonder, is there something that's being compromised in the process. So those are the concerns that I would have. It's kind of almost like allowing enough time to cook for lack of a better explanation, but basically that's [00:05:00] what I would. And I'm not sure what you guys prefer personally. Although I've had patients before with, coming in with secondary infertility that have always had 24 23 day cycles and they got pregnant with that cycle multiple times with healthy babies. So it does happen. So I did want to kind of mention that. So if your menstrual cycle is not pretty healthy, Perfectly 28 days, don't let that get you down because it doesn't necessarily mean that you're not going to be able to get pregnant. There is a range but like I said, 21 days for me, even though that's kind of like the widely known range, that to me is a little too short. So first, let's cover what is considered like an irregular menstrual cycle or what seems to be something that would be looked at as Not normal. So some of the things that can happen is when cycle lengths vary. So every single month, it's different. One month, it's like 26 [00:06:00] days. Another month, it's 35 or longer and it really goes all across the board. There's no regularity. And when I see that, I think to myself, like the pulse is not regular. There's something's off with the pulse. So if you think about it, it's kind of like, I can compare it to like an irregular heartbeat, but I also don't want to cause any major concern. I mean, I had irregular periods for 12 years before I got my own. So. Checked and taken care of, but to me, something was off with my rhythm and eventually it can be something that can get worked out. So this is more for you just to kind of keep in mind that if that is the case, look into seeing your doctor. but also possibly seeing a practitioner and really like figure out what's happening beneath the surface that's causing the pulse to not be regular. Another thing is missed [00:07:00] periods, which is what I went through. So are you having it every other month? Are you having it every three months? Every month and a half like what's going on? Like why is it so long? Why are you getting missed periods again? This is another form of the rhythm not being a strong pulse or is your cycle extremely short? 23 days or less. Like I said, they consider 21 days to be within like the bottom range, but I personally would like it to be more. So that's another reason you have to really uncover what's going on. Is the follicular phase too short? Is the luteal phase too short? This is one of the reasons why I highly suggest doing BBT charting because it gives you a really good idea of what the pulse looks like from month to month. And even if it is stressful, it is something to kind of consider because it'll help you out in the long run. And consider even doing [00:08:00] it for a short time or just a couple of months, almost to just measure and see what's going on. Another concern could be unpredictable menstrual bleeding. So it's just all over the place. You never know when it's going to come. It could be too short. It could be too long. It just comes out of nowhere. Spotting between periods, so when you're ovulating, spotting between periods is really something to look into, there can be many reasons for that. Very heavy or very light periods when it's too scanty, you barely have any blood and it's like barely even fills up a pad. So that's something to consider. Like, why is there not enough blood? Because , when you see the blood, it actually shows you what's happening with your uterine lining and that can be hormonal. It could be many different reasons. Another thing to consider is. not getting periods. So I have seen a case where one woman was not getting periods, but she was ovulating. So if [00:09:00] somebody's ovulating, but not bleeding, they need to look into, is there scar tissue adhesions? Like what's going on? What's causing the blood to not bleeding? happen or the uterine lining to not increase. Something's really getting in the way of that. So that's something to consider as well. Now, if you get occasional irregular periods and you find that during those months you were traveling, you might've gotten sick. You know, there's some people that have had it with COVID or the flu. Or you're stressed, you have increased stress or you're working out a little too much. Those kinds of things are actually normal variations. It's just the body is responding to some kind of stress or that there's more of a load. And it's such a perfect example of something that I often say is that the body really needs a lot of energy in order to support its reproductive health. So this is like a perfect example of that. That sometimes things happen and people go through [00:10:00] grief, just unexpected events in life. can throw off that pulse and just kind of think about it as almost like a weather pattern that's out of norm. And all of a sudden, boom, a wind hits you from the side and that throws off that normal pulse. So then you go back on track and you're back to normal. So that can explain that. Sometimes you can have mild variation, so it's not really a huge difference. Just a few days, but really the things to consider are if you're not getting a period, obviously that's not normal. That's something to look into. And if you're getting your period way too soon. every single time. And there's no rhyme or reason or there's severe pain or excessive heavy bleeding. And of course you really need to get that checked out immediately Because there are certain dangerous situations, and you don't want to excessively heavily bleed in general. And then severe pain could be even an ectopic pregnancy, [00:11:00] so those kind of things would definitely prompt a visit to the ER. So some causes of irregular menstruation are conditions like PCOS or thyroid disorders. Which is why it's important to go to a doctor and get a baseline test to make sure that everything's going well and that there's no underlying health factors that are causing issues with the menstrual cycle. So another thing is something called hypothalamic amenorrhea, and that is when a person expends more energy than their body is able to keep up with. So when the body is at a deficit of energy through stress or through lifestyle, like over exercise or through not eating, so they're at a deficit of the calories that they need, to support their reproductive health. That will cause the body to start to switch gears, focus [00:12:00] more on survival than it does on the reproductive health. And it shuts down hormone production, slows everything down. So it really is important to make sure that you're getting sufficient sleep and sufficient energy and with food and protein. because reproductive health demands a lot of energy and high stress can lower progesterone, which can also impact your menstrual cycle and cause mid cycle bleeding. Other factors are just overall stress. So stress in general takes a lot of energy out of your body. So whether it's physical stress, emotional stress just not getting enough sleep. All of those things can impact a menstrual cycle, significant weight loss or weight gain. So I've seen people that have a high BMI or a low BMI similarly have issues with ovulation [00:13:00]and menstrual cycles. Other medical conditions can be endometriosis, which can cause really, really painful periods. Sometimes people will feel it in their back and they'll also tend to have gut issues. That is something that can only be diagnosed through something called a laparoscopy. So if a doctor tells you when you go to a doctor that they did an ultrasound and that you have endometriosis, I would get another opinion because they cannot tell you that and confirm that you have endometriosis unless they actually go in through a laparoscopy, which is a surgical procedure when they go in and they check, because there is no other way to diagnose endometriosis. Endometriosis and also never self diagnose. You really want to confirm. So just because you have painful periods doesn't mean you have endometriosis and then uterine [00:14:00] fibroids. If, depending on the location that they're in, if they're inside the uterus on the actual area where the uterus sheds, it can cause really, really heavy bleeding. Endometriosis. Endometriosis. If they're within the muscle of the uterus or outside of the uterus, that usually does not impact fertility and it also doesn't really impact the menstrual cycle. Pelvic inflammatory disease can cause a lot of pain and it can also cause issues with menstrual cycles and pain during sex as well. Other factors that I've seen are birth control methods. So like birth control pills, people who have been on them for years and years and years and then as soon as they come off they don't get their period back right away. And I say right away because most of the people, actually all of the people that I've seen that have had post birth control amenorrhea Have gotten their period back. So acupuncture works really [00:15:00] well on getting a period back if it's lost, especially with birth control pill, but also with PCOS. I've had great success with that. So it is a really good way to. get that pulse back. And that's kind of what I found. Certain medications can impact menstrual cycle, environmental toxins xenoestrogens. So those are things to definitely keep in mind when it comes to other factors that can cause issues with menstrual cycles. So if you think or suspect that there's some kind of issue or abnormality with your ovulation or that your cycle's too short, too long, and you want to look into more what's going on my first thing is always get your baseline from an OB or a reproductive endocrinologist. If you're actively trying to conceive and you're listening to this podcast, most likely you are, [00:16:00] then I would definitely go to a reproductive endocrinologist and get your baseline. And if you're not interested in IVF, that's fine. They might suggest it to you. Just go. Knowing that you're going really to get the baseline test first and then you can decide whatever you want but it's good to get the information and They will know what to look for and that's kind of what's What is really good about going to a reproductive endocrinologist is because they'll really look for everything when it comes to conception and what is getting in the way of conception. So I would also highly suggest to do BBT charting. I kind of brushed upon that before, but BBT charting for at least three months because you want to see if your ovulation is normal. a happening B when it's happening and also is it regular? Is it, is the pulse normal? Like, is it [00:17:00] always the same or is it shifting all over the place? If it's the same, it's amazing because then you'll know more or less really what your regular time is. And then of course you can work on that. And if you do decide to go to practitioner, that is great information for the practitioner to know because based on that, at least for me, When I find out what's going on, I actually could work out a lot of the kinks with herbs and supplements and acupuncture. So all of those things could definitely help because if I know the temperature is low, I can work on that. I can increase it with herbs. I can do something called moxa. So that's really great information for. A practitioner to know and some Ayurvedic practitioners or nutritionists can also work it out , so a lot of people know how to shift things based on their knowledge and their perspective. And it is a lot easier to do that if we know what's really [00:18:00] going on beneath the surface. As far as the temperature goes and like what the rhythm is. Another alternative is there are certain bracelets and devices that you can put on your arm like the Ava bracelet that goes on your wrist or TempDrop that goes on your arm and those are great because they will check your, skin temperature. And based on that, they can see when you're ovulating and where you are in your cycle and when your fertile window is, which is awesome. And if you don't want to do that, you can also do something like Mira or Inito, which is basically little test trips. That check not just your LH, which is typically what you'll find from over the counter OPK kits which OPK stands for ovulation predictor kits. But this actually will monitor the different types and it'll give you a nice little graph and tell you what's normal, what's [00:19:00] not normal. They have an app. And if you want, I actually have a discount code for Mira, which I'm going to put in the episode notes. So you can check that out. So those are the three ways I would recommend if you really want to get confirmation. If you ovulated, , I wouldn't say I would rely on the LH sticks. They can be confusing, especially if you have PCOS and you really just are getting information about your brain releasing LH, which is trying to get the body to Ovulate, but you don't really know or can't confirm if the ovulation actually happened just based on the LH6. So if ovulation isn't really happening, it can be very confusing. So here are some tips that you can do, which generally speaking. Are going to help your body with fertility and reproductive health and are going to support your menstrual cycle health and number one is stress management. It is really, really important [00:20:00] to counteract a lot of the demands that We are having in general, like in general life, modern day times, but also all of the demands that especially are heavier during the fertility journey. So things like meditation, which I can go on and on about, which I'm sure you kind of figure that out. And even yoga, which I consider to be like an intelligent exercise. and it works really well with calming the nervous system and your nervous system matters. And this is one of the reasons I think that acupuncture works so well for fertility. It works amazing on the nervous system. It calms the body, calms the mind, and it allows your body, because when you're in this state of calm, you're able to sleep better. Your body's able to regulate itself and hormones start to regulate. So those things are really important. And then also not skipping breakfast. If you want to do an intermittent fasting, if you [00:21:00] are trying to lower the BMI, that would be the only time I would suggest to do something that is not quite intermittent fasting. Like you'll hear about it normally, but it's just eating earlier. Like having your last meal around 5 or 6 PM. Transcription Outsourcing, LLC. And then consider working with a practitioner or somebody who really understands PCOS if that's what you have to address it with diet. And there's certain supplements that can really help. And you can do acupuncture and even massage. I'm a huge fan of because it really helps calm the nervous system. Also be sure that you're eating enough. Not under eating and not over eating. Avoid processed foods. Try to eat as many whole foods as possible and many whole food ingredients as [00:22:00] possible. And lastly, connect with mother nature. So studies show that sleeping at certain times is better, more supportive for menstrual cycle health. One of the things that I actually forgot to mention is that sometimes shift work can impact ovulatory function and menstrual cycle function. So it's important to anchor your circadian rhythm by getting early morning sunlight. Allowing your eyes to feel the sun, so don't look directly in the sun, but allow the sun to hit your eyes from the side so that your eyes are processing that it's daytime. By doing that, you're going to anchor your circadian rhythm and that's going to impact your mental cycle rhythm, but it's also going to help your sleep wake cycle and it's also going to help your sleep. So, it is one of the hands down best practices. Besides meditation that I often recommend, and then also earthing, putting your feet on the earth. and really connecting with nature because we're talking about [00:23:00] this huge pulse and the nature always has its pulse and it continues to have that. So we always can anchor to that and use that pulse that nature has in order to help our own pulse, which is for women, the menstrual cycle. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you have any questions, you could definitely DM me on my Instagram, which is at the wholesome Lotus fertility. And thank you so much for tuning in today. And I hope you have a beautiful day.
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EP 295 The One Thing I Suggest to Everyone I Work With
23 jul· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
This solo episode delves into the profound impact of meditation on fertility and overall health. Highlighting the often overlooked aspect of mindset, Michelle explains how stress and the resulting cortisol levels can negatively affect reproductive health. She shares her personal insights from over 20 years of meditation practice and references ancient wisdom as well as modern research, including Dr. Joe Dispenza's work on the mind-body connection. Key Points Discussed: Introduction to Meditation Mind-Body Connection: Practical Meditation Tips: Overcoming Common Meditation Challenges: Protecting Energy and Boundaries: Meditation Techniques and Benefits: Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Follow Michelle on Instagram @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ for more tips and updates. For more information about Michelle, visitwww.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Transcript: Meditation and fertility [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orvitz, and it's been a while since I have done my solo podcast episode. And today I wanted to talk about the role of meditation and enhancing fertility. And I've talked about meditation before, but it is such an important topic that I want to talk about it again. And so today I'm going to talk about the benefits of mindfulness or just meditation, many different types of meditation. And why it's so important when it comes to overall health and fertility health. It is often one of the things that is really missed and taken off the list. Many people who come to work with me, whether it's online or in person, they share with me that they're eating the right things, taking the right supplements, they did everything. And most of the time when I ask about the mindset aspect, it is not the same. That really [00:01:00]priority. So it is something that I find myself really taking like a session or two just discussing because it's something that can be very abstract. And of course it's invisible. Our mindset, how we think is often something that runs in the background. And it's kind of like this programming that we have that's in the background of our life. And we often don't pay attention to it. We often actually get distracted and don't even realize that our reaction to things that are outside of us. comes from our mindset. And there are many different ways that we can react. There's many different ways that we can take it in. And so there are aspects of our mindset that we don't even realize are happening. And we may not even realize that they can impact our hormones, they can impact our sleep, and they can even impact our cravings and what we [00:02:00] eat. So this is why. I say that although it's invisible and although it is very abstract to really look at, it is so important. And it's probably, if anything, the number one priority that I usually try to address when I work with patients and when I work with my patients. Customers online. So I know that there's also a debate on stress and fertility, and there's always the argument that people at war times are really, really stressful events, get pregnant. And while this is true and a valid argument. That doesn't take away from the fact that when people stress, that increases cortisol, and cortisol is a hormone, and that can impact many different things for both men and women, and we know that men's nervous system can impact male [00:03:00] reproductive health. And for women, cortisol competes with progesterone, and it can impact progesterone. It can also impact sleep, which has a cascade of events. It can impact hormone production and hormone regulation. So all of these things are very important and stress does impact the body and how , the state of mind is impacts physiology. And we're seeing that. And slowly by slowly we're starting to get a bigger picture through modern research on just how much The mind can, in fact, impact the body and impact reproductive health. So these are just some examples, but I also have my theory. So my theory is this. is that we have an incredible intelligence, this divine intelligence that programs our body. We have [00:04:00] blueprints in every single cell in our body, and that is the DNA, and it has instructions, it has information, and it can turn on and off. This is called epigenetics. It can turn on and off to be healthy or not healthy, and it can go into a state of health or dis ease, and And this really is something that happens based on our environment and our environment or our internal environment, our blood can have stress hormones or it can have hormones that are more beneficial for growth. And this responds to our state of mind. So we have this incredible vast intelligence within our body. And my belief after meditating for over 20 years, actually more now at this point consistently, I know that when I've gotten quiet[00:05:00] and this is kind of like something that I know just based on my experience. And this is something that a lot of other meditators will say. And most of the intuitives that I have on the podcast feel that when I ask them, how do you get into your intuition? How do you connect? Most of them will say, or meditate and give yourself that opportunity to connect with that divine intelligence. So this is what it is is that now we are living at a time where we don't have a lot of opportunity to connect with this divine intelligence. This divine intelligence is available to us because we are made with it. So we can connect with it anytime and part of, if you haven't read my book already, the way of fertility, a big part of really the inspiration for that is based on a lot of the ancient wisdom [00:06:00]that is at the heart of Chinese medicine and also Ayurvedic medicine and a lot of like these old medicines and way of life. Thank you. And if we look back to what the ancients told us, they gave us a lot of hints and a lot of amazing, amazing information that is so rich with wisdom. And one of the things that you'll find over and over again is that they all point us to go within, which is really interesting. They always say the answer is within, and there's always kind of like this direction to go within. When you do meditate, it makes a lot of sense, but we're living in a world that doesn't even acknowledge the within anymore because there's so much distraction, there's too much information constantly bombarded with lots of information, the algorithm, all this stuff that just comes [00:07:00] at you, whether you're on YouTube, social media, or just the internet. And while that can be great. And it could be a huge tool. And this is one of the amazing things about technology. I mean, there's a lot of benefits to it. However, there can also be an imbalance with that. And that takes us very, very much away from our wisdom and the quiet within and that part of us that knows, and this is why. I feel like it's so important to really make that space to connect with yourself because your body is so smart. It communicates with you. You can communicate with it. And my philosophy, my own perspective on this, through Chinese medicine is one of the things that I know is that the reason we do acupuncture, the big reason, I mean, obviously there's so many different people with so many different [00:08:00] needs and acupuncture is different based on those needs. However, one of the biggest ways it works is it really creates an opening so that the chi or life force within the body, which is intelligent, by the way, that is able to go into areas that don't have as much, either they're blocked from excess or they're deficient. And they need more of that energy and more of that intelligence and more of that consciousness to fill it because once it does, then the life force comes back and that life force or that area that's, I guess you can say being ignored, because there are blockages or there's some kind of reason why. That life force is not getting to it. Those areas can get that consciousness, that life force. And when you [00:09:00]meditate and you focus even within your body, you can actually bring that life force just with your awareness alone. So you may know that I'm a huge fan of Dr. Joe Dispenza's work. I've been to three of his retreats. Two of them were a week long, incredible, incredible retreats. And I see people overcoming major terminal diseases just from his retreats alone and also the practices that he shares. And one of the practice is. really paying attention and bringing your focus into the energy centers of the body and he'll go through the different energy centers, which in ancient times were called chakras and paying attention to them, just bringing your awareness to them brings life. So it kind of is like [00:10:00] light, almost like the light of your consciousness. You can imagine is like the light of the sun and infusing a plant or some life force living thing. And, I think it's pretty cool because a lot of what he does and a lot of the work that he does and the meditations that he does, he actually has a research team that comes with him and they research and study. probably close to half of the participants at the retreats and they see how the meditations impact them and how they literally shift and change their way of being. And I remember one of the things that he talked about was That when you're laying down, he has you laying down after the meditation and he said it's really good for regulating the nervous system. And when you're laying down, he said you're able to absorb almost like how hypnosis works and you're able to gain [00:11:00] suggestion or like get a programming. But he said, it's not a programming of anything that anybody's saying. It's connecting to this vast intelligence. that we're all a part of, that we all come from. He talks about it as the quantum field of infinite possibilities, but this intelligence, this coherence that starts to happen. And the ancient used to look at it as the yin and yang balance. They looked at the harmony between the elements. They described it in different ways, but they're all pointing to the same thing. And the bottom line is, is that we are part of this vast Intricate, incredible intelligence. And when it's healthy, when it's working optimally, it is working with coherence. And when it's not. It's moving away from that. There's less consciousness. There's less intelligence. There's a blockage to that intelligence. And you can say that's like a blockage to the chi because the chi is not just life force. Life force cannot be without the intelligence [00:12:00] that's running it. So when you are not connected to that, and that's where a lot of people have listened to some gurus talking about meditation, it's really connecting to cosmic energy, cosmic intelligence. There's a difference between the energy that you get when you're sleeping, although very important. And there's a difference between the energy you get when you're meditating and connecting with cosmic intelligence. And so that cosmic intelligence feeds your body. And when it feeds your body, it gets you closer to better health. And as we know, fertility health relies on good health, and you need to have an overflowing amount. of nutrients, energy, chi, blood, really an overflowing. Why? Because in order to sustain another extra life, you need that overflowing of energy. When you have difficult emotions [00:13:00] and you are experiencing things that are very draining, which often can be counteracted with meditation, because meditation helps you even out that energy so that When triggers come, they will not zap you as much as they would if you're not energy consolidated, which is what happens with meditation. This is kind of part of meditation. It's a side effect, but a good side effect, one that is welcome. And that one that feels really good when you're actually getting that. So when you're able to do that and it protects you, it almost has a layer of energetic protection when you are experiencing a challenge, you're able to regulate and come back to yourself faster. And I'll tell you one thing, emotions when we're talking about an overflow of energy and all the things that we really need, because reproduction is so energy consuming. When you do experience really difficult emotions, those things [00:14:00] can really zap you out. Your energy and we've all experienced those times where either we deal with drama or something comes up or a really difficult exchange We at the end of the day are so drained And so that's why it's very very important to protect your energy Part of it and this is kind of a side note is boundaries. Honestly, like Cutting out maybe temporarily certain relationships that are too draining. This is something that you need to protect. You need to protect your fertility journey. Like going through this is very, very taxing as it is. So it's important really to work on your energy. And one of the biggest key ways really is meditation is really allowing yourself to experience the emotions that come up, sit with it. Feel it. And I will say some of the most common things that cause resistance in a lot of my patients or my clients. These are [00:15:00] the common things that I hear when it comes to meditation and after I suggest meditation. The first one is, I just can't sit still. Well, I have news for you. Nobody can, it's because the mind is called a monkey mind for a reason, because it goes from, it's like a swinging from one branch to the next, to the next, to the next, and that is your thoughts. So that is the typical nature of everybody's mind. It goes from one thought to the next. That's normal. So you're not really meant to stop thinking when you're meditating. You are building a muscle of your attention so that when you do have thoughts, you become aware of them. You catch yourself. You don't judge yourself. You don't say, no, no, I shouldn't be thinking, or no, no, this is bad. You just observe it. neutrally and then go back to your breath or go back to the mantra, whatever it is that you're anchoring in. You repeat that over and over and over[00:16:00] again until you can start shifting that habit of getting lost in the thought. When that happens, naturally you will learn to become more present when you are facing a trigger. So a trigger comes up. You feel it, but then your awareness becomes stronger than the trigger because you're meditating, you're training your mind to notice things. And that is when it doesn't have a hold on you. That's why some people can really get sucked into that trigger and then other people can get into the state of the executive mind function and not get triggered emotionally. When we get triggered emotionally, which does happen and there's nothing wrong with that. But when we get triggered emotionally, those are those moments that zap us the most. So this is really about empowering your mind so that you're able to consolidate your energy as much as possible,[00:17:00] because ultimately that is going to benefit you overall if you're on the fertility journey. Another common block I see for people who are first trying to meditate is that they believe that it doesn't do anything. And, and that's another mind perspective. So the mind will give you thoughts about things to do. To deter you. It's almost like a little trickster, that freaking mind. It'll give you thoughts and it will plant ideas and you can either bite and take them as fact or realize, wait, that's just the thought. Let me keep doing this to explore. And so your mind is going to convince you that you're not doing anything, or your mind is going to convince you that you need to do a lot more or you're going to get bored. Here's the thing. If you're used to being on a certain pace all the time, it's going to feel strange at [00:18:00] first to shift that piece and get to a receptive yin state. So the yin and the yang. Yang is pretty much. Like the majority of everything right now in our world, it's just, everything's go, go, go. And too much of that burns out energy. So we need to go back to the yin. Meditation is a more yin, receptive state. And doing that, shifting gears is the most uncomfortable thing. Shifting realities, shifting gears, shifting rhythms can be very uncomfortable if you prepare yourself for that in the beginning of your meditation practice, meaning when you first start to slow down, meditate and create a practice routine, then you know that that discomfort will not last forever. When you know that it's temporary and it's just shifting of gears, it's the turbulence that happens when you're shifting levels of consciousness. When you prepare yourself [00:19:00] for that and you just know that, then it doesn't feel as difficult. And another thing that can really help with that is becoming aware of that. Hey, That's interesting with curiosity, kind of paying attention. I feel a little agitated. What does that look like? What does that feel like? So instead of going to the thoughts of that, start feeling what your body feels like when you're experiencing that become observant of that. It's like looking at a picture upside down. You're starting to notice different things. You look at the shapes. So you're breaking down the experience of what that feels like. So that it's not so scary and your knee jerk reaction is not going to be to resist it because ultimately that's what it does. Your mind will have you resist things or get too attached and that's the push and pull that happens that causes us to have suffering. This is what Buddha taught about. about how desire, like strong desire or strong resistance are the two [00:20:00]things that cause us to suffer because we're basically saying no to now, like what's happening right now shouldn't be, it's either missing something or it has too much of something. And meditation gets us into the neutrality of seeing things as they are without judgment. And so that we become more empowered In this moment. So ultimately a lot of what I like to put on the podcast are things that are empowering and my top, top, top thing would be start a meditation practice daily. So one of the ways you can start a meditation practice that will be, in my opinion, a more successful way to start is to start out with just a few minutes a day. what happens is you're not going to give yourself too big of a task of meditation for too long. You just start with a couple of minutes a day. And even with like [00:21:00] five minutes a day, you're still going to get benefits just even with five minutes a day, allowing yourself The opportunity to connect with that divine intelligence, five minutes a day in the beginning. And the thing is, anybody can come up with five minutes a day. Even if you're extremely busy, you can wake up five minutes earlier and just meditate in the morning. So it's all a perspective. So what happens is when you do five minutes a day, or even a short amount of time daily, every single day, repeatedly, your mind will realize and come to terms with the fact that you now have a new habit and five minutes a day is so doable that you can make it easy to repeat something over and over and over again if it's very short and then your mind will accept it as this new thing. Once your mind starts to accept it and it becomes more natural and intuitive for you to do, [00:22:00]then You're going to even feel naturally. inclined to increase the time because your mind will start to settle over time and then it's going to want to have more of that quiet and crave it at times. And you're going to feel that it feels really good because it's going to make you feel more clear in your mind. And you'll find that it also saves you time. So even though you're taking time out to do it, your mind will start to work more efficiently. You'll be more clear minded and more intuitive and more sharp with your work that things that usually took you longer you'll find start to get done faster. So some of the things that I would suggest if you are new to meditation that are really, really simple is every day find one specific spot in your house. that feels comfortable. It could be a room. It could be something that you're a room that[00:23:00] you're in, but maybe a little corner where you can sit down on a cushion or you could sit down on a chair or a couch anywhere that feels comfortable and quiet. And you do want to set it up so that you're not going to get interrupted for the time that you're meditating. My suggestion is this, do not do this on your bed because naturally your body associates your bed with sleep and you will fall asleep. Don't get discouraged if you do fall asleep. Sometimes people nod off and then they come back. That's okay. That's just your nervous system regulating. What I do suggest is regardless if you cross your legs or if you have your feet on the floor, always have your spine erect so that you're not laying down. I also suggest having your hands on your knees and the palms facing up. receiving energy. And you could choose to focus on a couple of different things. You can choose to focus on your breath. [00:24:00] You could choose to repeat a mantra in your mind, , and you can look up seed mantras, Which are ancient Sanskrit mantras that have an energetic frequency, even if you're thinking them in your mind. Or you could literally start to focus on the sensations in your body and scan your body and all the sensations that you're feeling at the present moment. And really bring yourself back to your body and seeing how certain thoughts impact your body and where you're feeling energetically certain emotions, because that brings more consciousness to that area. You could literally spend a whole five minutes just focusing on the uterus and focusing on that area and really, really putting your consciousness into that. The bottom line is you are finding different ways to anchor yourself into the present moment. So whether it's body sensations or a mantra or just focusing on the breath, all of those things are happening in the now. So you're training [00:25:00] your mind to focus on the present moment. That being said, you're going to find yourself wandering off and that's perfectly normal and okay. It's part of what you're doing. You're training your consciousness to catch yourself. You're catching and then you're bringing back, catching, bringing back. So you catch yourself going off, you bring yourself back to whatever it is that anchors you in the present moment. If you find yourself incredibly uncomfortable, do not let that discourage you. Keep going. It's one of those things. When you first start working out, you're not going to feel really easy. lifting those weights. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be painful. It's going to make you sore for the next couple of days. It's the same thing. Growth and shifts and changes don't happen easily. There's got to be some kind of discomfort sometimes, and that's okay. It's being comfortable with the discomfort because If you're allowing yourself to be comfortable with [00:26:00] being uncomfortable, eventually you're going to find that the things that make you uncomfortable in life will not have a hold on you as much. And you're going to feel more smooth and easy with your energy overall. And I can say for me personally, meditation has changed my life and I speak to a lot of patients and clients and I see how it impacts them and also impacts their fertility and their menstrual cycle. It's incredible. Meditation is an incredible, incredible free medicine that we all have access to and it is one of the most overlooked things. Although now, I guess it's becoming a little bit more of a thing of recent times, but I definitely highly suggest if that is something that you've not looked into or if that's something that you thought You just are not meant to do. I really hope that this episode [00:27:00] Shifted your perspective on that and if you have any questions, you can always DM me on Instagram. I'm always there I'm pretty quick to respond Most times if I can and my handle is at the wholesome lotus fertility So I really hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you have an amazing day.
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EP 294 Does Our Relationship with Our Bodies Impact Fertility? | Kathryn Bregman
16 jul· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Kathryn Bregman Ed.S. struggled for years to become pregnant. She tried every diet, lotion and potion she could find. She endured two rounds of failed egg retrievals until she realized her body was pristine, but her mind did not feel balanced. She was suffering from stress and information overload. She was exhausted, defeated and depressed. Even though she was already in therapy, Kathryn hired a fertility mindset coach, which changed everything. Within 6 months she got pregnant naturally and gave birth to a healthy baby girl at 40. After that, Kathryn made it her mission to spread the word of what she learned to completely transform her outcome. Today she is a Certified Life Coach and a Certified Miracle Minded Master Coach. She's also the only fertility coach in the world who trained directly under Marianne Williamson learning exclusive and cutting-edge coaching techniques. She works with private clients across the globe and runs online group programs where women find the authentic support that they need to become the moms they are meant to be. You can find out more about Kathryn at: www.badassfertility.com Instagram: @BadassFertility Free ebook: https://badassfertility.com/fb-ad-habits/ For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Catherine. Kathryn Bregman (00:02) Hi, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. It's an honor to be on your show and speak with you today. Michelle (00:10) I'm so happy you're here as well, Catherine, and I'd love for you to share your inspiring story and how you got to do this work. Kathryn Bregman (00:13) Thank you. Absolutely, I would love to share I became inspired to be a fertility coach and work with women who are on the journey to their babies because when I was struggling to become pregnant with my daughter, who I had at 40, after struggling for about four years to conceive, after being advised to use donor different things like that, I realized that a huge, part of my struggle in my journey was, well, there were physical things that I'll talk about in a moment. There was a lot going on in my head space that was a huge block for me because when I first started trying to conceive with my husband, I was 36. We got married, you know, 36, and I was like, already felt behind, you know, was super concerned about. whether or not we'd be able to conceive. I'd always had like heavy periods, but never been diagnosed with anything in particular. So I felt like nervous and a little wary. And after about trying for just two months or so, we decided to use an ovulation kit. We used an ovulation kit and I got pregnant right away. And I remember thinking, my God, why do people struggle to conceive? Just use an ovulation kit. Michelle (01:33) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (01:41) Like it's so simple, hello, right? And then a couple of weeks later, we lost that pregnancy. And I did not get pregnant again for several years, no matter how hard I tried, no matter what we did. And I'll talk kind of briefly about that as And so it was like a famous last words kind of a And... So after trying for about another year, you know, we did acupuncture, which I love. I'm a huge fan of acupuncture, a huge fan of herbs. I think it was really integral on my journey, but there was more blocking me that I had to get through, right? And so after about a year of trying, you know, naturally and using acupuncture, we were advised to do IVF. And when we went to do IVF, I got like a laundry list of physical ailments that... were in my way, including a lot of stuff that I'm sure from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective, you would say is like inflammation and gut health, right? But at that point in time, I didn't know that. I just knew like, you have elevated natural killer cells, you have endometriosis, you're pre -diabetic, even though I considered myself like very healthy, very healthy eater, exercised, all those things. It was like I didn't have the right quote unquote health for fertility, right? And so, Michelle (03:01) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (03:02) We were advised to go straight to IVF and we did two rounds of egg retrievals. retrieved about three embryos in each, but none of them came back genetically normal after we did genetic testing. So I was pretty devastated at that point, as you can imagine, as anyone who's been on this journey can imagine. We'd been trying at that point for about two years and... Michelle (03:17) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (03:27) I was really, I'm like gonna cry talking about this, because I don't usually go into the details, you know, but I was just so lost and filled with shame, fear, self -loathing, you know, you name it. And I started realizing that it was like my mind was a part of the problem. And at that point, I actually started working with a coach who helped me see. Michelle (03:50) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (03:54) how mindset was impacting my perception of my entire situation. And I learned to stop being so obsessed with time and stop feeling like I had to rush, rush, rush and like jump into the next egg retrieval and keep going. Because at that point, I think I was probably like 38 getting close to 39. And if you're in the Western medical world, they're like, the clock is ticking every month is gonna decrease your odds. Michelle (03:59) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (04:22) And so I was really had to step back from that mentality and really start to own what was my truth, right? And so I started to look at, okay, what are the things that I have not addressed? Because I felt like I had addressed everything, right? But after that second egg retrieval, I stepped back and said, okay, one thing I've never really done is I've never really, you know, changed my diet. I think my diet's healthy, but maybe there's something else I can do. I've... Michelle (04:22) Yeah. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (04:51) exercise but I do yoga and Pilates and I was advised to do like more high intensity stuff. So I started shifting you know my diet to what would be considered like a more fertility friendly diet. I started finding the reserves within myself to do things that I didn't feel like I could have done before because my mind was in a place to be willing to go there. You know so for me like it really all started in my mind and then I'm gonna wrap up the story because I know we have a lot more. to talk about, but I want to share that the linchpin for me was I discovered a physical therapy called Wern and it is like an, yeah, it's an external like massage technique almost, but not relaxing, very intense where they go in and they externally break down the abdominal, the tissues in your abdomen that for me were binding my fallopian tubes. And I'd been advised by my clinic, you don't, Michelle (05:29) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (05:48) you know, don't do that, it's just a scam, was basically what they said. But in my gut, which... Michelle (05:50) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Even though it has research, I know exactly which one you're talking about. They have research, actual papers. Yep. Kathryn Bregman (05:55) Yes, yes, it has published. Thank you. It has published medical research. It, you know, and I just instinctively was like, this feels right for me. This feels like part of what's my issue and I want to do it. And because I've been working on my mindset and I was like really practicing, trusting my gut, I was like, I'm doing it. You know, and I remember saying to my husband when we left our IVF clinic, when the doctor had said like, it's a waste of your money. Meanwhile, it's like, you know, an eighth of the price of IVF. I said to my husband, I was like, I don't care what he says, we're doing it. And that was like a real stance for me. Like I really, you know, stood for something that up until that point, I had been kind of like acquiescing to the experts, you know, like you tell me what to do, you tell me what to do. And finally, I was finding my voice and doing what I felt I needed to do. And I went and I worked with an amazing woman, Susan Winograd. Michelle (06:27) Yeah. Yes. Kathryn Bregman (06:49) And she, we did this thing at six days, five days, five days, six hours a day of this physical therapy. And the very next cycle, I was pregnant naturally. Michelle (07:01) Was that the Wern are you talking about or? Okay. Kathryn Bregman (07:01) Yeah, so it's called WURN, it's W -U -R -N, and there's another word for it as clear passage, there you go, yeah, yeah. Michelle (07:09) Clear passage. Yeah, yeah. No, I knew clear passage. so Susan was the lady that worked on you. Kathryn Bregman (07:15) She was the lady who worked on me, Susan Winograd, and she actually, she works in women's pelvic health. She has a podcast called Pelvicore, and she's an amazing, amazing healer, and she and I worked closely together. It's like, that's it. I was her patient for the week. I went there every day from eight to two or whatever it was, and she did this stuff, and it was very intensive, and it released emotions too. So it wasn't just physical. Yeah, but like - Michelle (07:18) Okay. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right, I've heard that. Kathryn Bregman (07:45) childhood memories came back, like trauma came up and things that had been in my body that were literal physical and emotional blocks to my flourishing pelvic And again, for me, like you could say, if only I had done that three years ago, I could have gotten pregnant so much faster. But the truth is I had to be in the right place in my mind in order to even be willing to go there, to do that thing, to... Michelle (08:09) Yeah. Right. Kathryn Bregman (08:14) get into it as deeply as I did. And so for me, and what I find with the women I work with, you know, it all starts in this willingness to start to see things differently and to understand your journey, you know, as an opportunity to like release old trauma, learn ways that your body wants to flourish and be healthy and not see that as a punishment, but a gift, Michelle (08:26) Right. happening for you versus happening to you. Kathryn Bregman (08:41) Exactly, exactly, which is like so antithetical to what anybody wants to like think or feel, you know, when they're going through it. But when you start to make that shift, it's empowering. And that's what it was for me. So I got pregnant naturally. I had my daughter right like three days before I turned 40. And... Michelle (08:48) Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (09:02) I never went back for my third egg retrieval. Michelle (09:04) Yeah, that's amazing. That sounds incredible. And I want to go back to when you were going through it, you know, because a lot of people go through the different phases, just like you said, people need to be ready to know that they want like something different. And so when you were in it, when you were like really in it, like knee deep thick, you know, what were the things that you were telling yourself? Kathryn Bregman (09:23) Yes. Hmm, good question. I was filled with fear that it would never happen. So I would look at my friends who have kids, none of whom had struggled the way that I was struggling, and think, you know, it's not like literally in words I would say they're better than me, but I felt shame. Michelle (09:49) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (10:00) Like I felt embarrassed. I felt like I didn't want to share what I was going through. Like for the first time, I couldn't be vulnerable with my friends who, you know, I would say up until that point, I had probably told everything that happened in my life. And I just couldn't share it because it was so, you know, for lack of a better word, like embarrassing. Even though now on the other side of it, you know, I can stand here and be like, Michelle (10:01) Mm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (10:27) There's nothing to be ashamed of. It's not, you know, it's not embarrassing, but when you're in it as a woman, it's a very different thing than anything I had gone through before. Michelle (10:32) Mm -hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's interesting how we make meaning of it when you're going through it. But even though it's not like based in absolute truth, it's not true. We know that. It still feels true when you're going through it and it still feels like very real. Kathryn Bregman (10:47) Yeah. Yeah, and I think about, you know, up until that point, I never realized how much motherhood defines us in our culture as women, you know, and whether we even want to be moms or don't. Just the idea of making that choice, quote unquote, right? Like that in itself is like putting you in a box. Do you have kids or do you not have kids? What does that say about you as a woman? And I think, you know, I felt... Michelle (11:10) Mm -hmm. Right. Yes. Kathryn Bregman (11:30) inferior as a woman. Like I was failing my husband, you know, that I was, you know, I even questioned like, would he be better off with someone who, who was fertile, you know, like, and, and we just, and he's, he's like my soulmate partner, you know? So to question oneself on that level just shows like how deep that like, Michelle (11:46) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (11:58) yearning for children is and how complicated it becomes when we struggle to make that dream come true emotionally, you know, not just physically. Michelle (12:09) Yeah, I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot from my patients and the people I work with is, you know, that's my one job as a woman, like that kind of like that repeated thought pattern. And, really sad to see, you know, people going through that and really like, and even when they're saying that they're like, I know it's not fully true. I know that that's not the truth that I'm not broken. Like they know that, but they still struggle with feeling that. Kathryn Bregman (12:14) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly, exactly. And that's the thing that we really work on in the BFP, which is the group program that I run. We look at the thoughts and the feelings and the actions. And when feelings come up, like I feel inferior, right? What are the thoughts that then come into your mind? And how does that affect what you're willing to do or not willing to do in order to become pregnant? Michelle (12:50) Mm -hmm. Right. Definitely. And so when you were talking about blocks also in your body or blocks emotionally that were impacting your body, did you ever feel or get to this place where you can actually feel that in your body? I'm sure during the clear passage was probably something that awoke in a lot of it to you, but like, were there times where you literally felt it in your body? Kathryn Bregman (13:32) felt like when you say that like blocks or like energetic blocks or yeah. Michelle (13:34) Yes, like blocks, energetic blocks or emotions. Were you ever able to make the connection of how that felt in your body? Kathryn Bregman (13:43) interesting question. I mean, I think that... I know, like, I don't know if this exactly answers it, but what's kind of coming to mind for me when you say that is I think about my lifelong relationship with my period. And I know that for most of my life, you know, it was heavy and crampy, and I really kind of resented it. You know, I had a very... Michelle (13:58) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (14:12) like almost animosity towards my period because it seemed like it would disrupt my life. It would throw me off. You know, I would have always taking like a lot of my doll or whatever to manage it. And, you know, it wasn't until I started trying to become pregnant that I realized that that whole entire that experience is imbalanced, right? And that that wasn't actually necessary. And that, you know, if I'd met someone like you, I could have healed that so much sooner, you know. Michelle (14:34) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (14:42) And so even though I don't know if that's really a block, but I know that I feel like that resentment towards my period was also rooted in some other feelings about being a woman, about being a woman and being like as a vulnerable, disempowering experience as opposed to a powerful one. So. Michelle (14:58) Mm -hmm. Right. Right. Kathryn Bregman (15:07) Those things that are most vital to our experience of our femininity, our ability to procreate, our ability to embrace our sensuality, our ability to, you know, really express our feminine side and use it as a source of power. For me, I was always like, it was always in my way. You know, it was always like a hindrance as opposed to a powerful tool. Yeah. Michelle (15:12) Mm -hmm. Mm, yeah. That's interesting. You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking like it's really, it comes down to our relationship with our body. And it's often something that because it's like anything that's really mindset, I find that it's very hard for people to really wrap their minds around literally. Because it's, it's abstract. And it's something that sort of is in the background and we can't really touch it and feel it. I mean, we can feel it, but Kathryn Bregman (15:41) Yeah. Michelle (16:01) It's, it's a little bit more abstract in the sense that we have to concentrate to feel it. Because when we're distracted with outside world, we're not going to really become aware of it until something hits us. And they were like, wait, wait, something's off. And that's, I always say that that's your higher intelligence speaking with you. So like symptoms, things that come up, difficulties in life. any kind of resistance really where life resists you or you feel resistance towards life. And of course it's like every action has the opposite reaction. So you feel like life is doing that to you. And sometimes it's a reflection of, of some kind of inner turmoil that's happening. And so it's kind of like a diagnosis of sorts, you know, obviously this isn't a technical diagnosis. I just want to get a throw. I'm not saying this literally, but like in a sense of, just really coming in and tuning in, like what is happening? Is there disharmony happening within me, within my life? Kathryn Bregman (16:35) Yeah. Yeah. Again. Right. Yeah. Michelle (16:59) And that is the great intelligence. And it's actually such an amazing aspect of our life, like our body's symptom, all of those things. It really shows us so much about our inner terrain. Kathryn Bregman (17:03) Exactly. It really does. And I think that, you know, reproduction is one of the most amazing, like, synthesises of the mind and the body. You know, like, it's not like if you have a broken arm, you know, there's like a very obvious problem. But when you're talking about something like fertility, you know, what I found in my experience, and I'm sure you've seen this and I see it with the women I work with, it's like, Michelle (17:29) Yeah. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (17:46) It's so multi -layered, you know? And for every woman, it's going to have, yeah, like these different components to it based on her own experiences, her own physicality, her own history in every part of herself, her emotional, her physical, her spiritual being, you know? And I think that until I was able to step back and really, like, Michelle (17:49) yeah, big time. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (18:15) embrace all of that until I could see it as not just a physical ailment, but as a more like complex representation of me and not be intimidated by that, but like energized by it. You know, then I was able to really like make headway in my journey. And that's what I've seen with so many of the women I work with is like, once you can start to see this as not a punishment, you know, like we're saying, or, Michelle (18:25) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (18:44) a problem to be fixed, but rather like you said, symptoms that are showing us what's happening within us and how we can take action to heal ourselves. Michelle (18:56) Mm -hmm. It's interesting because there's so much choice in that. And sometimes we don't feel like we have a choice when we're in these really difficult things, we're like, well, you know, look what's happening. And we feel like we don't have a choice, which is a natural, it's, it's, it's all a progression. But then sometimes when you do actually realize and become aware of your own relationship with what's happening. Kathryn Bregman (19:02) Yeah. Michelle (19:26) It feels at first like you're admitting defeat. Kathryn Bregman (19:29) Yeah. Michelle (19:30) but it could be the single most powerful empowering thing you can do. Kathryn Bregman (19:35) Exactly, exactly. It's so true. It's so true. And I love that you said that. Like it feels like you're admitting defeat, but it's actually the most empowering thing you can do. And I think that if you just stop at the defeat part, you are defeated, right? But if you can see beyond that and be like, wait, there's so much that's actually there to support my shift. Michelle (19:54) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (20:04) then like a whole new world can open up and you know, your fertility can just become boundless. Michelle (20:12) Yes. Yeah. I have one specific patient in mind and she has insulin resistance and wants to work on the baby and got a negative pregnancy test. So she was really upset. And so, and it was early on in our working together. And I'm thinking, you know, I wanted to shift sort of the perspective that, You got to take care of yourself. You got to take care of your body. You got to work on that. Like, yes, baby is a beautiful thing and that's what we want, of course, but it's really about you and taking care of yourself and nourishing yourself and that extra added stress of demanding something from your body when your body is like screaming out for help. You know, so it's kind of like re -shifting. Let's take it one step at a time and like, Kathryn Bregman (20:45) Yes. Yes. Michelle (20:59) really bring it back to the nurturing that your body's thirsting for. Sometimes it's a little shift in perspective that at first feels like, this isn't exactly what I came for. I came for this, but ultimately it's that shift in perspective that our bodies are trying to communicate with us. Kathryn Bregman (21:21) That's so true, it's so true. And I think that that's where, you know, when we can release our like death grip on time, because so often, it doesn't even matter the age. Like I've worked with women who were 28 who were worried about the clock. And I've worked with women who are 43 who are worried about the clock, you know? So it's like, it doesn't even matter what age you are, somehow in our minds we're like, it has to happen, you know, or it's never gonna happen. And that fear is actually, you know, Michelle (21:29) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. It's a state of mind. Yes. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (21:51) creating more stress and contributing to perpetuating that state of imbalance, you know, whatever the state of imbalance is within one's body. So I think that, you know, you're right when you're saying like it's about nurturing yourself and supporting whatever is, you know, not functioning optimally because then you're going to get to that place where you can really bring in a baby. Michelle (21:53) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (22:18) And that's a mental and physical shift that has to happen because you have to be willing, you know, mentally, emotionally to, and I don't like, whenever I say let go, I feel like people misinterpret that as saying like, don't do anything. Yeah, and it's not, like it's such a. Michelle (22:18) Mm -hmm. Yeah. or don't care. Yeah, right. I totally understand what you're saying. Kathryn Bregman (22:40) Yeah, it's like that nuanced understanding, like letting go doesn't even mean no longer trying. It just means like, it's so hard to put in. Yeah, yeah. Michelle (22:43) Yes. Right. Finding flow, it's finding flow. So it's interesting because like, you know, you're on the right path when it feels a little more effortless. And I know it sounds and I think it's the belief that gets in the way, our belief and our conditioning that we cannot get to something that we really want unless we work hard. Kathryn Bregman (22:59) Yes! Yes, yes, exactly. Michelle (23:11) And that's just a conditioning view. If you recognize that that is just how you've been conditioned to believe, then it's like all of a sudden, my God, I don't have to suffer. And actually, the more peace and the more good you feel, you know you're on the right path. Kathryn Bregman (23:18) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That is exactly, exactly it. And that conditioning is so interesting because I think, you know, kind of like going back to what we were saying earlier, we have these thoughts and beliefs that we don't really realize we have internalized and that drive a lot of our thinking and decision making. And they really become obvious, I think, on the fertility journey, if you're trying for something and it's not happening. So. Michelle (23:30) Yeah. Yes. Kathryn Bregman (23:56) that idea that like we have to suffer in order to get what we want is so deeply ingrained in our psyche that we don't even realize we're doing it. You know, like we just think that. Michelle (24:01) Yeah. Right. We don't even realize it's not true. Like we don't even question it. Kathryn Bregman (24:12) Exactly. Exactly. And if you can't question it or see it, you have no ability to separate from it and step out of it. You know, right. Yeah. So that's I know. I know. I know. And it never ends like, you know, you just it's just like this lifelong practice, you know, and that's also why I think of the fertility journey as a gift, because. Michelle (24:23) 100%. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Right. It never ends. Kathryn Bregman (24:40) it really brings home these principles that are true in so many aspects of our lives and gives you this opportunity to learn them and then use them when you become a mom, and use them going forward. So I think everyone I know who's gone through this and then come out on the other side is always grateful for it. And as much as that's a hard thing to see at the time, I... Michelle (24:51) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. It is. Yeah. And it's interesting because you hear people like the sort of the argument against it. Well, I didn't ask to like better myself right now. I didn't ask to be put into this situation. And I get that. however, it doesn't necessarily have to do just with a fertility journey. This is the human condition. This is life. And you know what, when we don't bring that awareness, it's going to creep up other places. It just, that's the way it is. It's the nature. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (25:15) Right. Yes. Yes. Exactly, exactly, exactly. We don't choose our challenges, you know, but we choose how we handle them. We choose how we go through them. We choose how we live through them. And that's can be a very empowering thing. Michelle (25:39) Yeah. Yeah, it can be for sure. And of course, again, like, you know, there's no perfect way to do this either. And I kind of want to throw that out there. Like there's no perfect way. It's just really connecting with yourself. Your higher wisdom is actually customized specifically for you, perfectly for you. And that's what it is, is that there's no perfect standard, but it's your perfect standard, like whatever it is that works for you, that aligns with you. And Kathryn Bregman (25:57) Yes. Michelle (26:17) you know, connects with your nature. Kathryn Bregman (26:19) Absolutely, absolutely. I love hearing you say that. You know, just it resonates for me so much and I love our conversation. I feel like every time I talk to you, I just learn more and it's so grounding. There's something about your presence is just very like soothing. So I think, yeah. Michelle (26:37) thank you. Well, I love, I love your input too, because I feel like we're definitely on the same track. And it's just really interesting because, again, it's something that is so, it seems to be kind of behind the scenes. So when you were going through this and you finally said, okay, let me get into my body and like really acknowledge how my mind is working, the thoughts that I'm thinking. Kathryn Bregman (26:52) Mm. Michelle (27:04) How did you get started? Because I know that when you're in it and you're really in the thick of the emotion, it can be very overwhelming. How do you get to the place where you separate from what you've identified with for so long? Kathryn Bregman (27:17) It's a good question. I really, it was a process and I started by really just bringing in more forms of support. So like I had said earlier, I started with acupuncture and herbs and then I moved on and at a certain point I was like, I need to go to therapy. I need to. Michelle (27:41) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (27:44) Like I started realizing that there were things that had happened in my childhood that could be blocking me. For example, my father passed away when I was two. And yeah, and my whole life I was like, you know, I sort of told the narrative of like, you were too young to be affected by it, right? And so I grew up with this belief, like I was too young to be affected by it. But what I realized was that, Michelle (27:51) Mm -hmm. wow. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (28:11) it was playing a role in my fear of conceiving. There was something there about birth and death that was scary to me, and I needed to unpack that. And so going to therapy and looking at just the various relationships in my life and becoming more aware of my physical body too. I went to a somatic therapist and we would do stuff like... Michelle (28:15) Mm -hmm. Mm. Kathryn Bregman (28:38) you know, this emotion is coming up, where do you feel it inside? And becoming more aware of the signals that my internal self was giving me about how I actually felt about things rather than like the stories I was always telling in my mind, you know, that maybe weren't even true. So really finding more ways to connect with my truth and, you know, seeking out other forms of support. I mean, I was like for sure. Michelle (28:54) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (29:06) addicted to Dr. Google, you know, like I was constantly like researching whatever I could. And I think that absolutely there were times when that was unhelpful, like Googling, you know, signs of implantation, like 10 times a day for two weeks before my period, every month, knowing that I'd read the same thing over and over again, and knowing that like, I knew it all and I didn't need to do it, but versus... Michelle (29:08) Mm -hmm. Yep. Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (29:33) Googling in a way that was really helpful where I found clear passage, you know and knew instinctively like this is for me, you know, so I feel it Yeah, I feel it and then because I was doing the therapy and I was listening to podcasts and I worked with a coach I actually did therapy and coaching because they're different, you know, like one was about my past and the other was about How do you want to live right now? Who do you want to be going forward? Michelle (29:39) Mm -hmm, right. Yeah, you feel it. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. Right. Kathryn Bregman (30:01) So, and even as I say this, I'm like, people must be like, this woman is out of her mind. Like, how did she do? Why did she do all these things, you know? But at the end of the day, you've got to. Yes, thank you. You know, because I think that we have to take this opportunity of struggling to conceive and treat it like the opportunity that it is and that it can be and leverage those resources, bring on. Michelle (30:02) Yes. sure everybody's relating though. I feel like everybody's relating to this. Yeah. Kathryn Bregman (30:31) board, the experts who know how to help you uncover the blocks, whether they are emotional, rooted in your past, in your body, all of those things combined because really at the end of the day, more and more, I think we find they're all connected. But needing to look at the different entry points to uprooting the blocks, which is going to be different for each person. So really like doing all of those things in combination with each other over time. And one thing I will say too, about like four or five months before I conceived, my husband and I went to a five days silent meditation retreat, which, my gosh, yeah, I recommend it for everyone. I would love to do it again someday. Michelle (31:20) I want to do that so bad. My husband wouldn't survive though, because he talks so much. Kathryn Bregman (31:31) It's like a strange experience as a couple because like you kind of want to communicate but you can't talk, you know, so it's like it's a strange dynamic but it was so good and so powerful and it set the tone for me to start doing like a mindfulness meditation practice every morning for just five minutes and I really found that that five minutes and then over time, you know, my practice has evolved but just that five minutes. Michelle (31:49) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (31:58) is like the foundation for me of finding that connection to my inner self, setting myself up for the day to respond to that inner voice, to hear it and to trust it. And that was transformational. You know, it gave me like a good foundation in that experience to then carry it on in this small but consistent way. Michelle (32:03) Hmm. Right. Kathryn Bregman (32:25) that I think really, I know has had a deep impact then and continues to now. Michelle (32:30) I love that you mentioned that because I happen to be a huge fan of meditation and mindfulness. It is the key. And you know what I love about what you just said? It was only five minutes a day. It's just give yourself, even if five minutes a day, like put it this way, when you charge your phone, even five minutes is going to juice it up and you're going to get something right. And it's kind of like downloading that software from cosmic. Kathryn Bregman (32:35) Yeah. Yes, it's like the key, you know, it really is. Yes! Yes! Yes! Michelle (32:59) intelligence. And that's how I see it. It's just giving your mind, body, and soul an opportunity to download that intelligence. Kathryn Bregman (33:09) Absolutely. I agree 100%. I know that it's true in my own experience. And you know, when I was... Michelle (33:15) Most people are the people that I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I have to say this. The only people that will totally understand what I'm saying are the people who have practiced. Kathryn Bregman (33:25) Yeah, it's true because once you do it, it is one of those things that like you have to experience it to know. And it's not like some big secret, anyone can do it, you know? And it's really just about sitting down and I do this, you know, again with the women in the BFP because I'm like, this is what's going to help us step away from that inner chatter and all the negative voices that are telling you. Michelle (33:48) Mm -hmm. Kathryn Bregman (33:50) you waited too long, it's never gonna happen. It can happen for other people, but not for you. Whatever those voices are, this is the tool to learn that they're not you. That there's some other part of you that is more authentic, that's connected to your real truth, which is that you know in your heart, you are meant to be a mom. And that that baby is calling you. And that's why you're even. Michelle (33:55) Mm -hmm. Yes. Kathryn Bregman (34:17) going through all this stuff to begin with because it's meant for you. But all of those voices in your head are gonna take over unless you learn to connect and listen to the softer, more still voice within. And I'll just say too, I think that that five minutes a day is so key because we often make it really complicated and like, well, how, I can't do that, other people can do that, yeah, or. Michelle (34:21) Right. All or nothing. Kathryn Bregman (34:45) Well, my voice was going the whole time, so what was the point? But, you know, I always tell people, like, if your voice is going the whole time that you're breathing mindfully and you became aware of the fact that your voice was going the whole time, you just separated yourself from that voice. Like, that is the point. The point is to see it. Michelle (35:00) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right, right. It's not to stop the thoughts, but it's to watch it, to become aware. Kathryn Bregman (35:09) Right. Yeah. Yes, to become aware of it. And I studied my coaching, my coaching background. I trained with Marianne Williamson and she, she's amazing. And that was a life -changing experience. And I really take to heart. She always said five minutes a day, five minutes a day is all you need. You know, so I'm like, okay, I can say it with confidence because that's what I've been taught, you know, and I know from myself, it's true. Michelle (35:21) It's so awesome. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yep. Yeah. yeah. And I actually sometimes I'll even say start with two minutes a day. Because if you repeat that, if you repeat that in the beginning, then you're like, OK, your mind accepts the fact that this is part of your practice. And then naturally, you're going to want to extend it. You're going to be like, OK, this is too little. Let me just do a little more. And then you'll you'll find that you're you know, you're almost like, you know how they say, like, if you don't drink a lot of water, you sort of suppress that thirst. Kathryn Bregman (35:43) Yeah. Yup. Yes. Yeah. Michelle (36:06) And then you don't feel thirsty anymore. And then the more you start drinking water, the more you awaken that thirst. It's the same thing with meditation. And meditation is for everybody. We are wired to do it just like we are all wired to sleep. We are all wired to pee and poop and eat. And, you know, it's like part of, it's just part of what resonates and works with us as humans. Kathryn Bregman (36:12) Yes. Love. Yep, absolutely, absolutely. Michelle (36:32) And so what words of wisdom or tips would you give people who really are finding themselves lost? And we've all been there. We've all been there with different things and different times of our life where we get so sucked into how we're feeling and the emotions can be so hard to remove yourself from. So if somebody's really going through it right now or just like coming back from the doctor and getting bad news and really getting in their heads, what advice would you give them? Kathryn Bregman (37:01) That's a good question. I would say that... If you look to examples of women who have defied statistics, beaten the odds that they were given, who've become pregnant despite their struggles, know that they are not any different from you. You have the same capacity within yourself to bring home your baby. And if you trust the inner wisdom within you, which may sound elusive or confusing, but take it in small steps, one baby step at a time, you will get there. You absolutely, 100 % will get there. Michelle (37:49) Amazing. Those are powerful words, Catherine. So for people who would like to work with you, like what do you offer and how can they reach you? Kathryn Bregman (37:59) Yeah, absolutely. The best way to reach out to me is actually to find me on Instagram at Badass Fertility. It's my handle, so. Badass Fertility, thank you. And you can always DM me directly. I'm on there all the time and love to go back and forth. I have a podcast, the Badass Fertility podcast. So if you like listening today, that's a great way to hear me weekly. And then I run group programs for women who. Michelle (38:08) I love that. Kathryn Bregman (38:28) who can come together. And a lot of the tools that I'm talking about here, we use in a variety of contexts. And I also work with women one -on -one. So if you are interested in either of those options, you can always reach out to me on Instagram for information or go to my website, badassfertility .com. Michelle (38:48) Awesome. And I will have all of these links in the episode notes if anybody wants to find Catherine, I love talking to you. I felt like that the first time we talked, you're you are a badass woman, a badass coach, and I'm so happy we connected. Thank you so much for coming on today. Kathryn Bregman (39:05) Me too. Thank you so much. I love all the work that you do. I just, I love your book, by the way. Amazing, amazing book. It's such a gift to the world. So thank you. It's an honor to be here today. Michelle (39:12) thank you.
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EP 293 Ozempic Babies, Miscarriages, & All Things IVF with Dr. Armando Hernandez-Rey
9 jul· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Dr. Armando Hernandez-Rey is Conceptions Florida’s medical director and triple-board certified in Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility; Obstetrics and Gynecology; and Surgery. Dr. Armando Hernandez-Rey has over 24 years of experience in the medical field. He graduated from Universidad Autonoma de Ciencias Médicas de Centro America in 1998. He attended medical school at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine for his specialization in Obstetrics and Gynecology. He specializes in treating patients with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), recurrent pregnancy loss (miscarriage), and severe endometriosis. He is especially interested in fertility preservation (eggfreezing) for patients who must delay childbearing for personal or medical reasons, including cancer and systemic lupus erythematosus. Dr. Hernandez-Rey is an assistant clinical professor at the Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine at Florida International University and serves as an ad-hoc reviewer for the prestigious peer-reviewed journal, Fertility and Sterility. He has also published several articles and chapters in medical literature. Website https://www.conceptionsflorida.com Instagram https://www.instagram.com/conceptionsflorida/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/conceptionsfl Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@conceptionsflorida For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Hernandez -Ray. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (00:04) Thank you, Michelle. Thanks for the invitation. It's really an honor and a privilege to be on your show, on your podcast. Michelle (00:09) Yes, well, I've heard a lot about you over the years because I've had a lot of patients go to you. And one of the things that I've heard is that you do really well with surgeries and fibroids and you're able to in and but in a way that still preserves fertility. So that was one of the things that I've learned. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (00:32) Well, reproductive endocrinology and infertility as a subspecialty is a surgical subspecialty as is OB -GYN, which is a mandatory path to get to the infertility route. Unfortunately, a lot of the newer generation is not operating because they're not taught, not through no fault of their own, they're not taught. The reality is that it is... Michelle (00:47) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (00:55) for a myriad of reasons this phenomenon has happened. Number one, the minimally invasive surgery tract has been developed where you have the person who's really just really perfected their obstetrical skills. And then you have the gynecologic oncology route and the pelvic urogynecology or pelvic reconstruction route and the minimally invasive surgical route. And a lot of the reproductive endocrinologists, have said, you know what, I'm going to forego surgery and I'm going to refer it out. My personal philosophy, and this is in no way critical to absolutely anybody, it's just my own, is that I went into medicine to be a surgeon, I actually wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. I ended up not liking it, I had a very bad fracture when I was in my teens playing competitive soccer, and I really had some PTSD from that fracture, so I just couldn't see myself doing orthopedic surgery, but I somehow found my way towards OBGYN, absolutely loved it. And eventually towards the reproductive endocrinology route, which encompasses a lot of surgery, should you allow it. And so yes, like you said, fibroids are an important part of fertility. you, tubal reconstruction used to be much more important than it is now. People are more, are bypassing that route and going directly to in vitro fertilization. Endometriosis, as I said, I was running a little bit late today. I was in a very, very complex endometriosis case with a patient with bilateral endometriomas and complete frozen pelvis and scar tissue. And, you know, just a little bit longer, I had to work with the colorectal surgeons to do some resection of the colon because it was, you know, endometriosis is such an awful, awful disease. So yes, to answer your question, I... Michelle (02:41) Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (02:44) Absolutely love surgery. I think it's an integral part of the infertility journey to get a patient from being infertile to getting them to a high level of success with any sort of treatment. And hopefully it's more conservative than having to resort to artificial insemination or in vitro and with just surgery and corrective surgery, we can help the couple achieve a pregnancy. Michelle (03:07) Yeah, and I think it's important because I think that a lot of people might not realize that there are certain people that specialize in this or have experience doing that, doing surgery and really getting in there because it is important to find somebody who's specialized if you have a complicated case. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (03:23) I think it's important. I think people feel well taken care of. Again, my perception, people feel well taken care of when everything is done in house. Meaning, you know, there's no messages that get lost as you refer a patient out who may have the minimally invasive surgery knowledge, but not necessarily the focus on infertility, reproductive endocrinology. Michelle (03:33) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (03:50) specialist has and I think people feel comfortable with that. Michelle (03:52) Yeah, absolutely. Because there's some people that will take out fibroids, but they're not doing it with fertility in mind. You know, for many women, it could just be just taking out fibroids, but you're doing these things with fertility in mind. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (04:07) There are many great surgeons out there that are not infertility specialists. You know, I want to make sure that I'm clear. I just think that I was, I always love surgery. I happen to do surgery and I feel my patients feel very comfortable with me doing the surgery and not being referred out. It's what I think. You know, the journey, the infertility journey is very complex. It requires a lot of a woman in particular more than the male and to be Michelle (04:25) Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (04:36) you know, passed around, it gets complicated. And I think it's nice to be able to offer that service to patients. Michelle (04:44) Yeah, for sure. And then you do specialize in miscarriages. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (04:49) Sure, I mean, I think we all really have a focus on on as you know, we're all specialized in miscarriages and and PCOS and all that there's some people that tend to see More miscarriage patients or they people will refer miscarriage patients to us We have a particular kind of focus on that, you know, I think a lot of it is genetic, a lot of it is immunologic, a lot of it is just taking a holistic approach to things and not just focusing on one or the more common causes of infertility. And even now, I think that, you know, the use of supplements, which maybe 15 years ago was maybe considered some snake oil. Now, I think there's a lot of provocative data that has shown that supplements do work, in particular in Michelle (05:18) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (05:44) cases with recurrent miscarriage. And now we have the ability to measure those levels and we are now ability to supplement those levels and they have tremendous impact positively on these patients. Michelle (05:57) And what supplements have you seen help with miscarriages? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (06:02) Well, I think a lot of it has to do with what the cause of the miscarriages is. Oftentimes, believe it or not, miscarriages can alluded to fibroids, it could be anatomical, sub -mucosal myoma. Well, there's not gonna be any supplement that's gonna help with that. It's just purely the surgical route or the diminished ovarian reserve, Michelle (06:07) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (06:29) cause for recurrent miscarriages, which is older women or ovaries that are behaving or eggs that are behaving older than what their chronological age would dictate, you have a higher chance for aneuploidy. And in those cases, there's a variable cocktail of supplements that we use, including ubiquinol, including N -acetylcysteine, including vitamin E, even melatonin has been shown to be very, very effective. And I can go on and on, even alpha lipoic acid. Michelle (06:50) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (06:57) as well. There's some very nice studies coming out of Mayo Clinic that have shown that aflalipoic acid is very, very good for recurrent miscarriages. So again, things that we thought were, well, they can't hurt, now we know that they absolutely help. Michelle (06:57) Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's great because it just helps to know that there's something that people can do that really does make a difference. And it's not just like in theory with miscarriages when it comes to immunology. I'd love to talk about that because I know that that's a big one. Actually, I did see a study that showed that women who have are more sexually active, that their immune system calms down. It behaves differently in the luteal phase. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (07:31) Mm -hmm. Michelle (07:44) so that it's able to receive life so that it's not seeing like the sperm as an invader the, yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (07:50) So women that are more sexually active than others, it's probably a function of repeated antigen exposure, which is the more the woman is exposed to the antigens of the sperm, more there becomes an acquiescence by the immune system to be more receptive of that embryo. Because remember, the embryo is Michelle (08:06) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (08:19) a haplotype, meaning it's half female, half the woman, half the mother, and half the male. And the only genes that the immune system of the mother has got to harbor the pregnancy are her own. And so oftentimes the immunologic processes are heightened because it does not recognize the male antigens that are formed part of the embryo in general. But as a whole, I mean, recurrent pregnancy loss, Michelle (08:33) Mm -hmm. Right. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (08:47) is, is a small portion of the general population and, it's skewed towards advanced maternal age and advanced paternal age. so the immunologic component, while absolutely important, I think it's the one where we're still not a hundred percent sure how to absolutely treat it. Although supplementation and. immune suppression definitely are known to work. It's the testing that I think we still need a lot more work in doing because you know people talk about NK cells and you know that was part of my thesis when I was a fellow. So we talk about NK cells and ANA and antiphospholipids and all of that and the reality is that these tests have very very poor sensitivity in the realm of immunologic infertility or reproductive immunology. And so you may have COVID and then you can test positive or lightly positive for NK cells. And so I think that the overwhelming response by the treating physician is, well, they're positive, they must be immunologically incapable of handling a pregnancy. So therefore we should treat. Michelle (09:40) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (10:04) with nowadays what we use as intralipids. Back in the day, we used to use IVIG that has kind of fallen by the wayside a little bit. I think it's better to treat empirically than to have someone treat or test for all of these different immune markers that really, really in the presence of immunology and reproductive immunology, They have very low sensitivity. Now if you're treating or you're looking for lupus or rheumatoid arthritis or mixed collagen disorder or Sjogren's for sure, they are your go -tos every single time. Michelle (10:44) And what about a PRP for ovaries? What has do you do offer that? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (10:50) ovaries. American study of reproductive medicine came out with a black box warning that they do not recommend PRP for ovaries. Now, PRP for recurrent implantation failure, poor lining development, there is some very robust data that there may be some room or benefit for this. Michelle (10:57) okay. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (11:14) And we do do offer that. We do not offer intra ovarian PRP because ASRM has a huge black box warning on this. It's a liability. The potential for infection is there. Tubo ovarian abscess have been reported, adhesions, periovarian adhesions, and with very little to no benefit whatsoever. I mean, the whole premise for it is that we are... Michelle (11:16) Okay. wow, okay, I didn't know that. Mm -hmm. Okay, got it. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (11:42) regenerating the follicle complex and therefore improving egg quality and that definitively has not been shown to be the case. Although anybody who suffers from that as I would be would be like, slide me up. But unfortunately, you know, it's very easy for us to fall prey to things that we desperately want without having the medical literature to corroborate it or back it up. Michelle (11:49) Got it. Right. Got it. So that's actually showing to not necessarily be what a lot of people originally thought, but for the uterus, it has been shown to help. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (12:15) Yes, we are doing PRP installations and very select group of women with those diagnoses in particular. And. Michelle (12:25) So who would be a good candidate? Somebody who's had failed transfers, inflammation. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (12:30) Yes, someone with very high quality embryos, high quality embryos that are not getting pregnant. Also patients, for example, patients who have adenomyosis that do not develop a nice lining, a thickened lining. Those have been shown. Our numbers are very small, you know, by no means. Michelle (12:42) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (12:53) they are in the realm of what a randomized controlled trial should be. We're following the data from the randomized controlled trials and from the literature that's out there. So patients with adenomyosis who have poor lining development, recurrent implantation failure, so patients with euploid embryos, that means a normal embryo that's tested that looks to be high quality. Also, after a second implantation failure, we'll... offer that to the patient as a possibility. Michelle (13:19) Mm hmm. Got it. Awesome. And then also we were talking about Ozempic pre -talk. So I'd love to get your... Yes. Yeah. Ozempic babies. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (13:24) the topic du jour these days, right? It's right. So as we were discussing, I mean, this, this phenomena is not really a phenomenon that's surprising at all. It is just a, a byproduct, a side effect of, of how the medication works and the effects that positive effects that I have on women with in particular, and ambulatory disorders, specifically polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is often tied to or associated with insulin resistance, obesity, sometimes even overt. type 2 diabetes and the elevated levels of insulin, the elevated testosterone levels, they all work together to create this sort of environment within the ovary and the system of the female which creates an ovulatory disorder or dysfunction. And as a woman loses weight by virtue of the way that these GLP1s or glucocortes Michelle (13:58) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (14:22) Glucagon like peptides work They're very successful. They're very good at number one slowing gastric emptying which in turn slows down the release of sugar into the blood system to the Number one number two it stops the the release of glucose produced by the liver and Number three increases insulin levels so increase insulin levels helps get the the the sugar into the muscles out of the circulation and out of stimulating the ovaries and the theca cells to produce more androgens which then get produced produce more estrogen which then stops the hypothalamic pituitary ovarian axis from functioning correctly and as these levels drop patients automatically begin to have spontaneous ovulation if the system is working and the male has normal sperm and they're sexually active. this is how the ozempic baby phenomena occurs. And what we discussed also is that the concern is of the downstream consequences of ozempic babies given that the current recommendations are to have at least a two month washout period before anybody starts to try to conceive. Michelle (15:32) So two month washout means like really not trying anything. Yeah. And then also, I know like naturally, myonocytol is really helpful as well for insulin resistance. It might take a little longer. And then also metformin has been used as well. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (15:37) No exposure, right? No exposure. Yeah. Yes. So, my own hospital is, is a, is a great product. my own hospital alone, although you will find oftentimes my, my own hospital with a D chimeric, hospital and really the literature shows that my own hospital by itself is the one that truly has the most benefit might be hard to find. Michelle (16:06) Right, yeah. Right because for a little while they said my own hospital and dechiro, but now they're going back to saying just my own ocital, correct? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (16:23) Yeah, well the way that it's normally found in the body is at a ratio of 20 to 1. And that's what those supplements show, 20 to 1. Although we know now that in the ovary it's almost 40 to 1 ratio of myoinocytol to D -chimeric, inocytol. Michelle (16:30) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (16:49) Myo Inositol is actually not an essential vitamin, but it's considered like a vitamin, but it's in the category of B8 It's a glucose like peptide that basically helps to Help the system function by processing the circulating blood sugar in a way that's more physiologic and there by lowering insulin levels and thereby also helping tremendously with Michelle (16:56) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (17:16) regularity of cycles and even spontaneous ovulation as well. And metformin obviously is medication that's been around for many, many years. It is somewhat of a controversial drug. It is an anti -aging drug even these days because we know that insulin levels are so profoundly toxic for aging for the muscle and for the system in general. Michelle (17:29) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (17:45) And so we know it works, we know that it helps with the efficiency of insulin. And so it's certainly been used for many, many, many years in the presence of patients with polycystic ovarian syndrome. I would challenge people to be a little bit more meticulous about using it in patients who are the lean PCOS. Michelle (18:11) Right. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (18:11) or the skinny PCOS or the ovulatory PCOS even though insulin levels have been shown to be higher, slightly higher in... Michelle (18:19) So you're talking about being cautious with metformin, not necessarily myonositol. Yeah, yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (18:22) Metformin, you also don't want very high levels of myelonostetal because they can be, you know, there is some quote unquote toxicity. I think the recommendations are up to four grams per day. I think all the recommendations are four grams per day in two divided doses, two grams in the morning and two grams at night. I've seen patients be on eight grams and 10 grams and toxicity really starts happening around the greater than 10 gram dose. Michelle (18:29) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (18:52) I in our office we only use it, you know, what's recommended which is the four gram total per day two grams in the morning two grams at night and I don't think it's the end -all be -all I don't think it's you know treating anything in life is multi -pronged. It's not just one single thing perhaps but I definitely believe very wholeheartedly that it does assist in in adjunct treatment, although we certainly have patients put patients on on myocytil and combined with Michelle (19:06) Yeah. Right. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (19:20) diet and exercise and have been able to achieve pregnancies on their own, which is obviously what we want instead of having to go through treatments. Michelle (19:27) That's great. I mean, I will say that I was very surprised this past year. two different patients came from different, different places, not yours, it was other doctors, but I think the nutritionist there suggested metformin when they did not have insulin resistance or PCOS for egg quality. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (19:47) Yeah, I'm not familiar with any studies that have shown that have improved that. In fact, when I was a fellow, we were, just as I was coming into fellowship, where I trained, Rutgers was involved with a very well known and publicized study, it's called the PP COAS study, which looked at patients on placebo versus metformin alone versus metformin with Clomid, sorry. placebo versus clomid versus clomid with metformin and there was no difference in pregnancy rates or anything else. I'll go one step further with them going back to the myonocytol. It has even been shown to decrease the rates of gestational diabetes and so in our patients with PCOS with who are you know Michelle (20:18) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (20:39) Stage one, type one obesity, type two, we'll continue them on the myonostetal throughout the pregnancy and when they leave us and go to their OB -GYN, in our referral letter back, we'll say that we're recommending for her to continue on myonostetal because there have been improvements in sugar levels and glycemic control and reduction in gestational diabetes overall. Michelle (20:54) Yeah, that's good to know. another big one is vitamin D. A lot of people, even though we're in Florida here, we have a lot of sun. A lot of people are very deficient in vitamin D. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (21:11) Yeah, What it is is a combination of things. Number one, we're not as sun exposed as you think we are. You know, we're always in a car, we're always indoors, it's very hot. And yes, we go out to the beach and there is a lot of sun, but we become very, very sensitive to the sun and to the untoward effects of the sun. Michelle (21:17) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (21:35) So we protect ourselves tremendously. That's number one. Number two is that I think the levels are set higher than what the average person can sustain with just diet and sun exposure. And actually the recommendations now in the infertility world that when you order a vitamin D from Quest, they'll tell you that the levels are, you want them at Michelle (21:38) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (22:04) definitively above 20 Certainly above 30 and now recently now the recommendations are that for them to go above 40 and and and Yeah, I'm not yeah, so I heard I've read 40 I it was a Paper that came out of Either the Lancet or Michelle (22:11) Yes, yep, I've been hearing that or even 50. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (22:27) or fertility necessarily, anyone, one of, that they recommend now for vitamin D levels to be above 40. So that's really hard. I mean, I work really hard. I take a lot of vitamin D and I'm just barely scraping like 50. You know, I take about 5 ,000 units a day, which is what we're recommending nowadays, 5 ,000 units of vitamin D. And I take that every single day and I barely scratch, Michelle (22:38) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (22:56) you know, 45, 50 every time I get an average check. So I'm not getting as much sun as I think I am, number one. I am out fairly often. I do play some golf, not enough. And yet it's not enough. So definitely supplementation's important. Michelle (23:03) Mm -hmm. Yeah, magnesium is also important. That's another thing. It's to not be deficient in magnesium because magnesium plays an important role of our absorption of D, which, you know, obviously doing this, I learned, I was like, that's might be deficient magnesium and be taking a lot of D and then their body's not processing, which is why it's important sometimes even in foods, foods have everything. So like, even beef liver, you know, from Chinese medicine perspective is so beneficial because it has iron, but it has it in a combination of nutrients that helps the body absorb it. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (23:46) Yeah, B6, B12 are incredibly important for iron absorption as well. So all of these things are extremely important. Everything is all intertwined and we're just learning about this. And for us, I've really gotten grabbed hold of this whole longevity thing, hence my aura ring and all of this. And... Michelle (23:57) It is. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (24:09) I'm just trying to apply a lot of the things that we know today work for longevity medicine and anti -aging principles to the infertility world because it's all intertwined. It's all intertwined. Michelle (24:16) Yeah. without a doubt. It's funny because that you say that because I always say it's pretty much anti aging. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (24:26) Yeah, totally, totally. They're even coming up with a way to stop menopause. Michelle (24:36) wow. How? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (24:37) which is extremely interesting. Believe it or not, recombinant antimullerian hormones. Michelle (24:42) How is that? Explain that. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (24:46) So the way that antimullerine, the function of antimullerine hormone at the level of the ovary is that it stops follicular recruitment. That's why women with PCOS have higher AMHs and therefore they have higher egg counts and higher, they tend to go into menopause later on, et cetera. That's because they have high levels of antimullerine hormone. So by reproducing or creating it in the laboratory and then from an early stage, This is in its infancy, by the way, okay? So this is, yeah, this company, I believe she's a Harvard scientist, biochemist or something, who's coming up. My point is that, listen, that it's all intertwined, aging and even in menopause, for God sakes. Now I've been doing this for so long that I now, Michelle (25:18) It's new. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (25:39) seeing menopausal patients who were like, you know, listen, you took care of my baby, you're a reproductive metachronologist, you understand the science, will you treat me? And, you know, like, and I realized, like, somewhere, some women got like, they got a some bad luck thrown their way because, you know, with the WHI results and the way they were interpreted, they made hormones bad. And somewhere along the way, someone said, It's okay for women to suffer from menopause, just suck it up. Like it's not okay. That's not okay. That's not okay. And so if you start from very early on and, you know, and, and really practice what you preach, which is healthcare and not sick care, which is what we practice in the United States, you know, we're just very, we, we're not proactive. We're reactive to when a patient is sick instead of early intervention, early screening and all of that. Michelle (26:25) Yeah, absolutely. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (26:30) And that goes for the infertility world and that goes for a woman's long reproductive life extending past menopause. I think we still have a lot of challenges to overcome, but I think that we're heading in the right direction. Sorry to digress a little bit. I went off on a tangent there for a second. Michelle (26:43) Yeah, for sure. no, it's okay. But you know what? I love the passion and I love that, that, you know, ultimately is great. It's important, very important, because it's true. And I agree a lot with what you just said, that we should be proactive when it comes to healthcare. I mean, really when it comes to so many things and something else that I... that I read, it was an animal study. It was a study on, I believe it was like, I don't remember which kind of animal it was. I think it was like either sheep or cows or some form of those where they actually gave them oxytocin right before IUI. And that improved the chances of the conception rates, which I thought was very interesting because I think that that's one of the things with IUI that's missing because obviously you're taking away the connection. that is usually there when you're just under natural circumstance. And I thought it was interesting because I was looking into it for something else to understand from a Chinese medicine perspective, because they have this heart -uterusconnection, that connection, the bonding. And so what I found was interesting too is that oxytocin increases around ovulation and after intercourse. And usually what they look at it as its role is usually for labor. not so much conception. So I was just going to kind of like pick your brain on that. Any thoughts on that? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (28:13) Well, I mean, oxytocin is secreted at the time of... I'm not sure of ovulation, I didn't know that. But definitely at the time of... Michelle (28:21) or it increases around that time, like right before ovulation in the cycle, a woman cycle. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (28:27) What we know that it's involved is at the time of orgasm. And so this may promote uterine contractility, which is what is used for intrapartum, to promote contractility of the uterus, to promote descent and eventual delivery. And we know that it's intimately involved in orgasm, we're seeing. Michelle (28:33) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (28:55) during intercourse and orgasm and so with you know the projection of with the secretion of oxytocin and it causing uterine contractility obviously not at the same level that it does during labor but at smaller amounts then I can see how there could be a role for oxytocin in artificial insemination. Michelle (29:18) even in fertility in general and because it's got to be there for a reason why would the body produce it around that time? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (29:25) Well, yeah, I guess, but it's either IUI or IVF and we definitely don't want oxytocin during the IVF cycle. Michelle (29:33) Right, because you don't want to contract, right? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (29:35) Right, because we're transferring an embryo where there should not be any oxytocin. And you can have the most beautiful embryo, but if you screw up the embryo transfer, through no fault, just because it's a difficult transfer for a myriad of reasons, and you cause uterine contractility, then there's a high likelihood of pregnancy not occurring during that time. Michelle (29:57) Right. I think it would be an interesting thing to look into for IUI. There might be something to it, because if it works with animals, and the animals obviously have similar certain functions that we do, mammals, that seems like an interesting thing. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (30:10) Yeah. I think there's not going to be a lot of resources put into improving IUI, to be honest with you. IUI, I think it is what it is. And I mean, I think the majority of research is going to go to improving even more IVF rates, because I think ultimately patients are going to want to go more. Michelle (30:22) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (30:40) towards IBF, no matter how hard we try to say, hey, listen, there's this option or this option or this option. It's more become a more of an instant gratification society. Number one, number two, people are waiting longer. So therefore they're more pressed for time, if you will. And I think there will be less of a motivation to go down a treatment option that frankly, Michelle (30:48) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (31:07) You know, has a low pregnancy rate. Michelle (31:09) Right. And then my other question is, what are your, thoughts about a lower intensity cycle? like lower amounts of hormones for older women. In some cases I've heard it might be a little better. you do? Yeah, yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (31:24) We use it all the time. Yeah, we use it all the time. I think it's... a very successful option in cases with severely diminished ovarian reserve. I think that the senescent ovary does not do well with high impact medication or high doses of medication separately, but you know, jointly the medication costs are exorbitant and you end up having the same number of eggs that are mature, that get fertilized with a mini stent protocol as you do with Michelle (31:38) Okay. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (31:59) a high dose regimen. Michelle (32:02) Okay, so you've seen good success with that. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (32:06) Well, I mean, not good success because generally these cases are, we've seen success. Let's call it that. Because the patients that you're treating with these medics, with this protocol are patients who are POI, you know, premature ovarian insufficiency, diminished ovarian reserve, poor egg quality, high rate maniploidy. So these are your poor responders essentially. And they're very... Michelle (32:12) Yeah, okay. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (32:34) specific factors that propel a woman to have success with this protocol compared to her twin sister with almost the same testing who doesn't do as well. Michelle (32:47) Got it. And then lastly, we talked about this in the pre -talk, let's talk about marijuana and sperm, data is showing. Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (32:55) I don't do it myself, but I have no problem with people that do. What the data has shown that we're just becoming more and more familiar because the overwhelming number of people who are using cannabis and open about it, which is the second part, which was very difficult to conduct studies because it was so people were ostracized. They were looked at. not the wrong way and seen as in the fringe. And now it's, you know, it's so mainstream. but so now we're, we're keenly aware, of patients were able to analyze them and what we know without a shadow of a doubt that the potency of the cannabis that's being produced these days is anywhere between eight to 12 times more potent than I think I use the joke of the guys at Woodstock back in the sixties, right? Michelle (33:21) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (33:46) where everybody was getting pregnant and everybody was high on life, all of those things. And then what we've also known, which I did mention, is that using the vape pens, whatever types of inhalers as opposed to the traditional joint, if you will, increase the potency of that by a factor of two to three. The cannabis that was already potent to begin with. Michelle (34:08) Yeah. Right. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (34:14) So what you're seeing in males in particular, and I'm not sure that the literature is so complete on the female aspects, are that we're seeing a high levels of fragmentation. And what fragmentation is, is imagine that sperm is like an Amazon box. And inside that box, there's a porcelain doll that's wrapped in these packing cubes. They're held very, very tight. And under... Michelle (34:26) Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (34:40) The best of circumstances, those packing cubes are wound so tight, packed so tight that nothing, if I kick the box off the Amazon truck, nothing is gonna happen to the porcelain doll. Well, as fragmentation occurs and it happens under natural conditions and old guys like me, you know, patients who, occupational hazards, firefighters, exposed to toxins, a lot of people who use fertilizers, et cetera, et cetera. you see high levels of fragmentation. I'm talking about DNA fragmentation. And so what we're seeing is high levels of fragmentation at the level of the DNA of the sperm, which has significant effects on embryo quality, embryo development, and pregnancy rates, and high levels of aneuploidy, which is abnormal embryos. So, Michelle (35:10) So you're talking about DNA fragmentation. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (35:33) You know, I'm not here to like, you know, slap you on the wrist and say don't smoke weed, but really that's what you're facing. And we know that this happens in women with cigarette smoking. Like this is a well -known cause of an accelerated transition to perimenopause. You know, 65 % of women who smoked a pack a day for greater than 15 years will go into menopause before the age of 40, assuming they started before their 20s. That's a pretty... Michelle (35:40) Bye. Mm -hmm. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (36:03) ominous number, actually. Thankfully, not many women smoke these days, cigarettes anyway. So I guess the results of cannabis on females is yet to be elucidated, but we definitely have some pretty compelling evidence in terms of the male data that show that it can have detrimental or deleterious effects on sperm quality and not necessarily on numbers. Michelle (36:04) Yeah. Mm -hmm. right, which is what people look at usually when I mean, that's like the, the analysis is always on numbers shape and, numbers shape it. Yeah. And morphology and they won't necessarily look at the DNA fragmentation. That's actually not something that REIs usually initially look at. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (36:33) Exactly. the thesis in morphology. is done in a well not initially unless there's comorbid situations or things that raise your red flags. For example, advanced paternal age, we always do it. Particularly in egg donor cycles, right? Because patients will be like, well, I'm using an egg donor and why don't I have bad energy? Well, because your husband could be 70 or 60 and Michelle (37:11) Yeah. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (37:14) And then their fragmentation is completely elevated and through the roof. So yeah. So, you know, firefighters, occupational hazards. Michelle (37:18) Right. So, yeah, it's important. It's important for people to hear this because they can go in and say, the semen analysis was perfect. But that, like what you just said, is not really checked. So they may not, in a healthy, like, younger guy. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (37:35) It's not as nuanced as we once thought it was. Michelle (37:38) Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. It's, it's fun. It's always fun for me to talk to our, our ease, you know, just to get, to pick your brain and get your thoughts. and you're my neighbors. So it's pretty cool. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (37:50) That's right. Thank you very much for the invitation. This was really fun. We spoke about a wide array of different topics here. So this was really nice to connect this way. Michelle (37:53) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I know that a lot of people are going to be like, this is interesting information. Cause I know that what you just mentioned, a lot of it is not common knowledge. people don't know automatically hear about this or really know to think about asking about it. So, so I appreciate all your information, all your good, good data. And, for people who would like to work with you or in town, how can they find more about you? Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (38:27) Well, we are at Conceptions Florida. We have two offices in Merritt Park, Coral Gables and one in Miramar and hopefully soon also in Boca. And I'm there Armando Hernandez -Ray, MD I'm sure. Easy to find these days on Google, but I'm happy to help in any way that we can. We've been doing this for a long time, quite successfully, thankfully. And we take a lot of pride, humbly speaking, but probably also. in having a good footprint in South Florida and the infertility world and trying to offer the best care possible. Michelle (39:01) Awesome. Well, this was such a pleasure and thank you so much for coming on today. Armando Hernandez-Rey MD (39:05) Thank you, Michelle.
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EP 292 Sleep, Melatonin, & Sperm health | Dr. Kelsey Duncan
2 jul· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
After being told at a young age that she might struggle getting pregnant, without receiving adequate support or guidance, Dr. Kelsey embarked on a mission to offer better healthcare to women. She firmly believes women deserve the information to make quality decisions, the support they need to be successful, and the confidence in knowing they are doing everything within their power to make a baby. Through her 3 pillar Fertility Success System, Dr. Kelsey and her team have helped bring hundreds of babies into the world using evidence-driven medicine and supporting couples regardless of where they are in their fertility journey. When she’s not helping couples reach their fertility goals, you can find Dr. Kelsey spending time with her 2 kids, watching trashy reality tv when they go to bed, and enjoying time up north by the water. Free Webinar: Five Strategies to Build Fertility Confidence: https://kelseyduncan.com/ondemand/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fertilityconfidencemethod/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.kelseyduncannaturopathi9750 Fertility Confidence Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xctPYL5cxoI1zFwSZJUmf?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fertility-confidence-podcast/id1553380342?itsct=podcast_box_link&itscg=30200 Website: https://caredforwellnessclinic.com/podcast/ For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:01.572) So welcome to the podcast, Kelsey. Dr. Kelsey (00:04.43) Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to see you again. Michelle (00:07.236) Nice to see you as well. So I was on your podcast. Now you're on my podcast. Dr. Kelsey (00:11.566) Yeah, getting very familiar, which is always good. Michelle (00:16.26) Yeah, for sure. So I'd love to have you share your story, your background story, which I always love hearing how you got into the work that you're doing today. Dr. Kelsey (00:23.346) That's it. Yeah, amazing. Well, it started with an acne journey, which I feel is very common as a young woman, but I had really horrible cystic acne. And I went through all the traditional medical route of what can you do to help me? It was a 14, 15, 16 year old girl. I was really looking at anything to make my skin clear. So, I was really just routinely offered various forms of birth control and some different antibacterial creams. And anytime I went on birth control or any of the birth controls they switched me on to, I never felt great. I was incredibly nauseous for a good portion of the month. It was really impacting my quality of life. But like I said, my skin felt like my number one priority. So I just sort of like suffered through that for many, many years. Michelle (01:07.812) Mm. Dr. Kelsey (01:22.158) And then I actually saw a naturopath in my journey once I was probably 19 or 20. And I just had one appointment with her. And it was like finally being heard after so many years of feeling like no one was taking me seriously of, you know, she's just another. that doesn't like her skin, like nothing crazy. And it wasn't, you know, this huge, profound like skin clearing experience either, but it was something that made me really start to question my journey and route in terms of how, what I wanted to do with my life. I knew, I always knew I wanted to be in medicine and help people. I just wasn't fully sure at that point what that really looked like. And so it was my first introduction to naturopathic medicine. And it felt really lovely. And I just kind of kept going through I thought I was going to be a pharmacist kept going through the motions of like going through that journey. And when that didn't work out, I had this like light bulb moment of like, well, I really liked that. Like, why don't I see you know what that's all about. And the stars sort of aligned that I had all the prerequisites to apply the applications were open, it all kind of worked out really well. And I landed myself. Michelle (02:18.788) well. Dr. Kelsey (02:41.038) in naturopathic college very shortly after I graduated. And fast forward a few years, I then had another experience in the medical community that pertained to my fertility. And it was my like last ditch effort in my hormonal birth control phase of again, trying to figure out my skin. And I was told that we would likely struggle, I'd likely struggle to get pregnant whenever the time came. Here's another. you know, birth control prescription, like, see you later. And that was sort of the breaking point for me of like, okay, at that moment, it wasn't like, hugely about the fertility piece, though that was, you know, a big factor for me of like, my gosh, you know, I have to have this conversation with my boyfriend, who's now my husband, but you know, what is that gonna look like and where the heck do I go from here? And it really propelled me into the field of women's health medicine in general. But I also felt very fortunate that I got this warning when I was young that my fertility is something I need to pay attention to. And a lot of women don't get that, right? We often don't. Michelle (03:53.86) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (03:54.446) get to even start having these conversations until sometimes you're six months into trying and then you're like, what the heck, it's not easy, what's going on? And now we're learning, whereas I, you know, my journey wasn't awesome, but I was blessed with this opportunity to really dig into that piece many years before we were even ready. And I attribute that to our very fortunate success down the road. Michelle (04:00.452) Right. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (04:20.558) of being able to set my body up for success and have those conversations. And I was obviously already embedded in a community that took a very natural whole body focused approach. And when I came out of school, I knew that that's where I was meant to kind of put my expertise was in helping couples, A, hopefully, you know, create content and get the word out there that like we should be having these conversations. earlier than when we're even ready, but be okay, if you're not getting the support on your fertility experience in mainstream medicine, like guess what, there's other options. And that's how Fertility Confidence Method came to be. Michelle (04:50.212) Yeah. Michelle (05:05.604) That's awesome. We have very similar stories. We talked about that before. And if I might ask, what were they basing the fertility, well, what they were perceiving as fertility issues on? Dr. Kelsey (05:09.678) I see you. I see you. Dr. Kelsey (05:19.534) Yeah. Yeah, I was trying to, it was a botched IUD insertion, which if anyone listening has ever, you know, had an IUD put in or unfortunately had a similar experience to me, it was not awesome. So there was a lot of like medical trauma that came out of that appointment just as a whole. But she kept telling me that like my uterus was a funny shape. It wasn't. Michelle (05:26.436) Mm -hmm. Michelle (05:40.772) wow. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (05:48.814) the way that it should be, that there was something wrong with it. And it was quite literally just based off that, you know, assessment alone. There was never an ultrasound done. And I was 21. Like, I didn't know any better at the time to like ask more questions or get more knowledge at that moment. I did seek that out down the line and was told like, you know, yes, there are factors here, but like, let's just try and see what happens. And I had put my body in a very, you know, privileged stance at that point of like, I had years to work on egg quality and balance my hormones, you know, coming off of birth control, I actually had quite a few hormonal issues with that, that the birth control was just masking for me this whole time, right? So I had years to fix that. Michelle (06:36.516) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (06:43.15) But the physical piece that they made like a big stink about truly at the end of the day, I don't think was as big of a factor as they made it seem, which is another big piece of the story of like getting factual information into the hands of women so that we're not, you know, walking around thinking we're barren because I spent a good portion of my 20s assuming that because that's how it was explained to me. It wasn't really. Michelle (07:10.148) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (07:11.246) discussed in an appropriate manner, right? Michelle (07:14.98) Totally. And I've heard people say, you know, they've been told, you have PCOS, you're likely to have issues getting pregnant. You're going to have a hard time. Like really, it's just, just give that information to somebody, get that in their mind and then let them leave the office. Yeah. Yeah. There is a thought. Dr. Kelsey (07:23.598) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (07:30.798) Yeah, let's actually help them. What does that that conversation can happen in a far more appropriate manner that supportive versus like you're going to struggle. It's like, well, okay, we know this is here. We know that this has the potential to decrease fertility rates. So let's, you know, dig deeper, find the root cause work on that. So that's not your story. Instead of just Michelle (07:44.132) Mm -hmm. Michelle (07:58.084) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (07:58.702) putting women on birth control and saying like, when you wanna have kids, we'll just see what happens is kind of the route with PCOS. It's the route with endometriosis as well often, any sort of like period concern. That's sort of how we tackle it, unfortunately. Michelle (08:03.812) Totally. Michelle (08:08.676) Mm -hmm. Michelle (08:16.1) Yeah, it is unfortunate, but it is out there, which is why I like getting this message out for people. I've had naturopathic doctors on before, but somebody might be just kind of stumbling upon this podcast. I would love for you to just give an overview on how that's different than mainstream medicine and how you guys approach really the body and like health. Dr. Kelsey (08:26.35) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (08:38.446) Yeah. Yeah. I love to explain it in a way of like, in terms of like a general practitioner, we're not vastly different, but we have different tools in our toolkit. So we still learn a very similar education as your like standard GP, obviously, when we're getting into like more specialty realms, that's a different journey. But we are more focused on looking at the body as a whole and getting down to the root cause versus treating the symptom, which tends to be how mainstream medicine approaches the majority of complaints, right? I often call it it's reactive healthcare when we're going that route. It's like, I have a problem, this might fix that problem. And if that works, cool. we're not gonna dig any deeper. And if that doesn't, we might then assess different. Whereas with naturopathic medicine, we really don't wanna be just putting band -aids on things. We wanna be getting down to the root cause and understanding like, why is this happening? And what is our body trying to tell us? And the reality is, is that a lot of times with hormones, for example, we, you know, there's supplements and things we can all read about and blogs and see on TikTok. But at the end of the day, if it's your gut, that's the problem. Like none of those things are going to help you. So we want to just pick away at the pieces and see in the layers of the body versus just looking superficially at the front. And then we use our different tools. So for me, for example, and not all NDs are going to hold the same value, but it's all about gold standard of care for me. So I'm not anti -pharmaceutical. I'm not anti -mainstream medicine. A lot of my clients work with fertility clinics still. I think there really needs to be a synergistic approach between Western medicine and alternative care. I think that's the way of the future to lessen the burden on mainstream medicine truly, but we're going to come in and look at, okay, Dr. Kelsey (10:53.006) How are you eating? How are you sleeping? What's your stress like? Are you moving your body? Like there's so many fundamental pieces of health that don't really get talked about in mainstream medicine. And for two reasons, one, they're not trained in that realm. You know, their nutrition training is like a day or something like that. Like it's not a lot. Michelle (11:06.084) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (11:19.47) They don't learn about supplements unless they're pharmaceutical branded and they don't have the time, right? Like here in Ontario, we have quote unquote free healthcare, but your appointments are like seven to 10 minutes and then they got to see the next person and the next person. I know it's like that in many places. So we're now not getting the time to have these fundamental conversations. It really is just how quick can I fix the problem? So as an ND, I have the flexibility of having longer appointments if I'm in private practice and spending the time and doing the digging. And I have the extra training to put the pieces of the puzzle together from a whole body systems approach. Michelle (12:06.404) And how do you uncover it? Do you do different testing? Like what's the difference between the testing that you would run versus the testing that people would get more mainstream? Dr. Kelsey (12:13.71) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (12:17.454) Yeah, we run a lot of blood work with our clients, which is similar to what, you know, your fertility clinic would run. But I do find that in the fertility realm specifically, lab assessment is still very surface level. Like your first kind of look at, I'm walking into the clinic, my first appointment, they're going to do some testing. It's still not deep enough for the majority of couples. So we're then getting that unexplained tag instead of actually going down that next rabbit hole. So we dig a little bit deeper just with a variety of labs looking at nutrient deficiencies and blood sugar management and things like that, that the clinics don't often look at first and foremost, unless there's like a big glaring red flag in your health history, then they might. And then we do sometimes use some various functional testing, it depends who I'm working with. So, And for me with testing, I really wanna make sure that we're using resources, we're spending money and we're ordering tests that are going to change the treatment protocol. So I'm always very strategic there with like what makes sense per couple in terms of what we wanna look at. And then if any of you listen to the Fertility Confidence Podcast or follow me, you'll know I'm very passionate about male fertility. And so regardless of where you're at in your journey, It's not all about you and your partner needs a semen analysis. Even if you're one month in, doesn't matter. We need to be uncovering that as well. So if that's not something that's been done early on, and usually if a couple isn't in the fertility clinic realm yet, I find that their doctor might run them some labs, but their partners are kind of just left off to the side for a while. And in our world, that's not okay. It's a whole couple approach. We want to see both factors. Michelle (13:45.572) I'm going to go ahead and close the video. Michelle (14:07.876) Mm -hmm. Michelle (14:12.036) Do you typically see both at the same time every time you speak to people? Dr. Kelsey (14:17.358) Yeah, we want to, yeah, we use a very whole couple approach. So I want to make sure that we're not missing something. And I've missed things before by not having their partner in on the assessment or doing that testing or having those conversations and then having them down the line and being like, damn, we just like wasted so much time by not doing this earlier. So Michelle (14:26.884) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (14:43.342) Right from the get -go, like I said, no matter how long you've been trying, no matter if you've had kids previously or not, we wanna see those numbers. And at the very least, we wanna get partners involved in prenatal care, even while we wait for a semen analysis, because sperm's 50 % of the equation. And all the things we talk about from female perspective and egg quality and blood sugar and balancing hormones, we could literally... Michelle (14:56.964) Mm -hmm. Michelle (15:02.052) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (15:12.462) flip that script to men and it's equally equally as important. So that's another big piece that's missing in the conversation right now. Michelle (15:21.06) Yeah, it's true. And what do you find is a core reason for men having sperm quality issues or even motility and count? Like what are some of the factors that you've seen impacting that? Dr. Kelsey (15:40.27) Yeah, I think they need to do more research in the overall why, but we've seen in the data that in the last 40, 50 years, sperm numbers have decreased a significant amount, and they're decreasing at a rate of something like 2 .5 % a year right now. So there's a huge issue happening. And the reality is, is I don't think we'll ever fully know why, but I think we can make some assumptions. Michelle (15:58.66) That's crazy. Dr. Kelsey (16:09.582) One of those assumptions being our environment is very different than it was 50 years ago. We're exposed to more chemicals, toxins, pesticides, radiation, and they need to do more data into that. There's a recent study that's kind of circulating right now about glyphosate being found in semen specifically. And so now we're starting to see direct correlations, but there's already lots of research in men who have high levels of parabens or phthalates in their urine having lower sperm quality and count numbers. So we know that environmental toxins are likely a culprit of the global decrease. And I do think that stress is probably a contributing factor. Life is different now. We live in a very go, go, go society. If you're not hustling, you're not winning. And I think we don't take... Michelle (16:46.244) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (17:08.686) enough, you know, as we could have this whole conversation for women as well. But, you know, cortisol is in men and cortisol impacts many things. And there's a really fascinating study that looked at men who lived in like war zones and men who like college men, for example, who had to write exams. Michelle (17:15.012) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (17:31.758) And they did see a decrease in those time periods in their sperm numbers. So we know that stress plays a factor. So that's my assumption right now. Like I said, I don't know if we'll ever fully, it's so multifaceted that I'm not sure we'll ever have like a clear answer, but I think environment is playing a role. And I do think that stress is likely playing a role and we can couple in, you know, with our environment, food quality. Michelle (17:31.812) Mm. Michelle (17:40.676) Mm -hmm. Michelle (17:47.524) Yeah, for sure. Dr. Kelsey (18:01.71) Overall has gone down, processed food and the access to processed food and our consumption of sugar has gone up over the years. All of these things, they're all playing a really big factor in not just how a male's body makes sperm, but testosterone levels, which are also important for sperm production. Michelle (18:09.828) huh. Michelle (18:23.364) Yeah, a couple of things came to mind. I actually remember reading something about sperm production and count relating very much to nervous system imbalances, which really kind of speaks to the stress aspect of it. But also, I mean, you see, I see guys carrying their phones in their front pocket. Dr. Kelsey (18:34.254) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, totally. Dr. Kelsey (18:44.142) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Michelle (18:44.9) It's got to play a role. I mean, we're, you know, we know that that's what's happening recently is that like technology is increasing and there's so many more waves that we're exposed to that we have not been exposed to before. Dr. Kelsey (18:57.838) Yeah, we need more research for sure. I'm always scouring for EMF data because I get asked all the time, right? And I'm like, we don't, we know a little, but we don't know a lot. Like, we don't know enough to be like, everyone put it all away. Like, this is the culprit, right? But but that is one really easy recommendation, like just in case that we can give and we know that phones are giving off, you know, Michelle (19:05.284) Yeah. Michelle (19:12.292) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (19:24.334) lots of things and we also know that they get warm, right? And testicular heat is a big factor. And so I'm in Southern Ontario and yeah, yeah, no kidding. Yeah, just put it in your back pocket. That's what I tell my clients. I say, if you're moving around, put in your back pocket. When you get there, when you get to wherever you're going, if you can take it out of your pocket and put on the table, just do that. Michelle (19:29.892) Yeah. Michelle (19:33.956) I would say be careful anyway, even if you don't have the data. I mean, don't wait for the data to be careful. Yeah, I see the same thing. Dr. Kelsey (19:52.558) Like just get in the habit of not always having to have it in your pocket. And that was something I really had to train my husband with too, because he would just leave his phone in his front pocket all the time. And I was like, we just, just, it's super simple. You just have to change your habit. And it feels weird at first, sure. But overall, like, and not just in the fertility journey, but it is likely causing testicular damage. And so when we're thinking whole health long -term, Michelle (19:53.092) Yeah. Michelle (20:04.132) Yeah. Michelle (20:09.54) Yes. Dr. Kelsey (20:22.094) We don't want that either, right? Because now we're gonna have testosterone issues and now we've got all the fun side effects of that as well. Michelle (20:24.932) Nope. Michelle (20:30.564) I just remember a couple of years, and this is before it was as strong as it is now. I remember seeing this maybe even like 2008, 2009. There was a girl and her mom that went on the Dr. Oz show. And the girl at the time, I don't know if you remember, sometimes girls would put their cell phones in their bra. She would always put it on her right. Dr. Kelsey (20:45.55) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (20:52.942) Yep. Michelle (20:55.012) side of her brow or like one side over the other. And she ended up getting an aggressive tumor, cancer at 18 years old. And she said, there's no way that this naturally happens for an 18 year old in the same exact spot that she kept her cell phone. So I want to get this message out. And this is years ago, like years and years ago. And that never left my mind. And I was like, you know, that Dr. Kelsey (21:02.408) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (21:11.886) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (21:17.198) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yep. Michelle (21:24.068) is not, it cannot be random. It cannot be just left to chance. And this is way back when, when the technology and the radiation was less than it is today. So I'm thinking people need to pay attention to that. Dr. Kelsey (21:33.038) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (21:38.446) Yeah, yeah, there's this whole like when we look at the sperm decrease data, it's starting looking at like 1940, like we didn't have cell phones back then, right? Like that is a big change in our society that has to be playing a role with both men and women in some way. And whether or not we'll see like the good confirmation, like you said, it doesn't matter. Like it's an easy change that we can. Michelle (21:48.644) Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (21:57.796) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (22:06.382) you know, feel comfortable with the assumption that it's likely not nothing. Even if it's just a small piece, every little bit helps. And so it's not a pill. It's not something you have to buy. You literally just have to move it off of your body. Michelle (22:10.788) Yeah. Michelle (22:16.644) No. Right, right. We're such creatures of habit though, so I get it. Like it is hard. It's hard to break a habit. If you're used to something and actually there's science behind it because like you have a certain pattern, certain triggers and certain behavior that it feels very like unnatural to change. So, you know, it's a known thing, but it's not forever. You're going to eventually shift it. Same thing with diet, you know, Dr. Kelsey (22:23.694) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (22:40.174) Mm. Michelle (22:48.932) Diet is very behavioral and that's one thing that I noticed too. It's not something that is just physical. It's not just something that like impacts your nutrition. I mean, yes, it does, but like the behavioral aspect is a big component to it. What have you seen as like pretty common, I guess, lifestyle choices that happen that you feel need to get attention? when it comes to fertility health from both men and women or both. Dr. Kelsey (23:23.214) Yeah, I think like we can talk a lot about the nutrition angle for sure, but a really big one that doesn't get as much attention that actually has fascinating research behind it is sleep. And, and again, kind of in our like higher stress society and our go, go, go lifestyle, we've sacrificed sleep to like fit it all in, right? And, Michelle (23:37.22) Hmm. Michelle (23:46.948) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (23:48.238) From a male side of things, we have research showing men who sleep less than seven and a half hours a night have lower sperm numbers and poor quality. And we also see by increasing sleep, those numbers actually improve. So it's not just the detriment, but by actually improving the habit, we see improvement, which is what we want at the end of the day. And we see similar patterns with women. Michelle (23:58.436) Mm -hmm. Michelle (24:03.588) wow. Dr. Kelsey (24:14.766) as well in terms of hormone disruption and cortisol and cortisol is an umbrella hormone, right? So it's going to impact everything. So I think that that's a big piece for a lot of couples where they're like, I feel like I'm doing everything. But if we're still, you know, lying in bed, scrolling on our phones or watching shows till midnight or later, and then getting up to start our day at like six, six, 37, you're and you, you know, you've always done that. So it just, it's a habit. It just, feels normal in your body to live off five, six hours of sleep, but you're likely not getting enough deep or REM sleep in that timeframe. And that long -term is going to contribute to hormonal dysregulation, but it also can be impacting your fertility journey from a root cause perspective if it's impacting cortisol in that way. So sleep is always like a sneaky one, I feel, where people kind of, when they come in and work with us and we start talking about it, they're like, Michelle (24:52.74) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (25:13.838) I never thought of that. And it often, women definitely have sleep issues and things to work on, but it almost always is like, yeah, I sleep well, but my husband stays up till like one, two in the morning and he's a night owl, right? Like that's just his normal and that's his habit. And it's not a quick switch to go to bed earlier because your body's not used to it. Michelle (25:15.108) Yeah. Michelle (25:36.452) Right, yeah. Dr. Kelsey (25:39.694) I notice that all the time. I don't know if you notice this, Michelle, but like if I have a couple late nights and then I'm like, okay, I gotta go to bed like at a normal time. I'll just, my body's like, well, you're not ready for sleep. Like I thought we were staying up late now, right? It becomes a bit of a struggle. This was me last night. I'm like, we were away for the weekend. I was like, okay, I really need to get some sleep. And my body's like, do, do, do. So it takes time. So if you're working on sleep, we don't want you going from. Michelle (25:52.196) Yeah. Yes. Yep. It's true. Yeah. Michelle (26:02.34) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (26:08.046) Midnight to be like, okay now you go to bed at 930 because you're probably gonna lie there very Frustrated and then the frustration is just gonna keep you awake so I usually tell people like go back in 15 minute increments every few days or even every week and just work yourself back into that more like appropriate Crocadian rhythm time frame because we all can go to bed at 9 930 Michelle (26:11.748) Right. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (26:36.59) What's happening for our night owls is they're pushing past their natural sleep signals and getting a surge of cortisol around 10, 10 .30. And once you get that and your body's like, we're not sleeping. Okay. Like, let me help you know. Right. And then you're like, well, why to wake? So now you're just paying up later. And so we need to find everyone's sweet spot is a little bit different, but in general, like most humans, Michelle (26:51.908) Yeah, and then you wake up. Michelle (26:56.42) Right. Dr. Kelsey (27:05.134) do better being asleep before 1030. And for some people, that's really early. So it takes time to sort of shift that back. But we do see in the data that longer and better quality sleep improves fertility parameters, which is really like simple thing to change. Michelle (27:26.756) my God, I feel like that by itself is a game changer because it's going to also impact what you eat the next day. If you're tired, you tend to go for sugar and it impacts how like, you know, your cravings. So it's such a cascade of events when you're not getting the rest that you need. And then it also goes back to the nervous system because your body's able to regulate or rejuvenate and really heal itself too. Dr. Kelsey (27:31.758) Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (27:35.662) Yeah, yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (27:50.702) Yep. Totally. Michelle (27:56.644) when you're going through that and clean out hormones. And I mean, there's so many things that sleep does and I love sleep. I really do. But I've always been a night owl. And you know what, my hormones and my menstrual cycle was very regular when I was younger and I had a very irregular circadian rhythm. So it really was thrown off and looking back on like it makes a lot of sense. But I think the devices too, like having it at night. Dr. Kelsey (28:02.83) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (28:19.278) Hmm. Michelle (28:22.82) those things are giving your brain a signal that it's daytime when it's really not. And that's why one of the, you know, sleep hygiene, like lowering the light so that you're not getting bright light and it's not confusing your brain. But also like what you said, I loved what you said about 15 minutes, because I think that the big part about it is really wrapping your mind around the, the, Dr. Kelsey (28:38.862) Yeah. Michelle (28:49.38) idea, you know, we sort of like judge the idea of like, my God, before 10 o 'clock, no way or 1030. Like that's crazy. So it's kind of like the judgment that we have on that seems like that's not me. And so I think being aware of that, that block that you could have very easily and then just easing into it, but not ruling it out because it could really impact. I mean, cause we'll do anything else. Like why not? Dr. Kelsey (28:55.982) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (29:06.222) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (29:16.846) Yeah. Yeah. It's free. I'm trying to tell people it's free. Like we don't have to do anything crazy. We just, it's going to take time and we have to be okay with that. And we have, we're okay with flexibility because you don't have to be perfect to get pregnant. You're, you're going to have some late nights and then you're probably going to have some retraining of your brain to do. Like I was easily falling asleep by nine 30, 10 o 'clock before I went away this weekend. And then now, Michelle (29:17.54) Look into that as well, because it's huge. It's free. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (29:28.964) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (29:46.862) like, okay, now we gotta start over and that's okay. Like, nothing wrong with that and there's gonna be times where that's worth it to you to go back to your night owl tendencies but the consistency of the majority of the time we are getting to bed at an appropriate hour for your cricketing rhythm and for your hormones and giving your body the time that it needs like for the nervous system like you said to rejuvenate and recoup and. Michelle (29:49.316) Yeah, right. Yeah. Michelle (29:57.604) Yeah. Dr. Kelsey (30:14.67) and deal with all the stuff from the day before. And that really does bleed into your decision -making the next day, your nutrition, your cravings, but also your ability to handle stress in general. So that I think is a huge win for a lot of women and men, especially if we're identifying on our intake forms that... Michelle (30:18.532) Yeah. Michelle (30:23.555) It does. Yeah. Michelle (30:31.236) 100%. Dr. Kelsey (30:42.126) they're really, really stressed and then they're only sleeping five to six hours a night. It's like, well, we're never gonna be able to manage the stress that you are having unless we give your body the tools to do so. And sleep is a really big one. Michelle (30:58.5) Yeah. It's like you need energy to cope with stress. Right. Well, to conceive, I mean, think about all the mitochondria we have in the egg cells and the, you know, like it's there for a reason. I mean, we need it. And, and actually on this topic, let's talk about melatonin because I know that melatonin is actually really important for egg quality, possibly sperm quality. I know more for egg quality. What are your thoughts on that? Dr. Kelsey (31:01.358) Yeah, you need energy to live, so just go to sleep. Yes. Dr. Kelsey (31:18.35) Hmm. Dr. Kelsey (31:27.822) Yeah, I love melatonin. The IVF research is good in terms of seeing higher numbers of embryos form. So we make that assumption from an antioxidant perspective that it's improving egg quality, which we want. But we also see melatonin improving implantation rates in IVF pregnancy. So we're actually not just seeing. a clinical pregnancy or we're not just seeing an embryo development improvement, we're actually seeing clinical pregnancy rate improvement. So we like melatonin and how I approach it is like, this is not for sleep. So it's not just for people who don't sleep well because the majority of time people who don't sleep well, it's actually not a melatonin problem. There's usually more of a sleep hygiene issue that has to be dealt with or stress, right? Michelle (32:12.004) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yes. Mm -hmm. Dr. Kelsey (32:18.094) So I get asked that a lot, I was asked that just last week actually, like you put melatonin in my plan, but like I sleep well, do I still need to take this? And it's like, yeah, we're actually not using it for sleep. Maybe it might help you get deeper sleep, awesome. If it makes you feel groggy and gross in the morning, some people just can't hack melatonin, I can't. It does not, it makes my sleep opposite. So some people react poorly to it. And if that's the case, it's just not the product for you on your fertility journey. And that's okay. No, there's lots of other things we can do. But the research is compelling enough. I'd love to see more male research because we haven't or I haven't seen a ton or anything really like pushing melatonin from a sperm perspective yet. But given the power of the antioxidant potential that it has, it wouldn't surprise me if it was also a really good option for men as well. Michelle (32:49.636) Right, right. Michelle (33:15.012) Yeah, cause we know that both men and women can benefit from antioxidants in general and really antioxidants work as an anti -ager. I mean, it's funny cause if you think about fertility health, just think anti -aging, like that's the protocol. And we can luckily, I mean, there are definitely things that we can do to actually change the biological clock, which is fascinating. Dr. Kelsey (33:19.534) Mm -hmm. Yep. Dr. Kelsey (33:27.79) Right. Yeah. We're literally wanting to turn the clock back a little bit. Dr. Kelsey (33:41.198) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Michelle (33:43.204) Awesome. I mean, this is great conversation. We can keep talking. And I love, I really love the things that you brought up because they're important, you know, especially like the sperm, which gets ignored often. Sleep was another thing really that gets ignored often. And then the question about melatonin, I love melatonin and I love about what I love about it is that it's non habit forming. So you can get off of it and it's not going to impact your sleep. Dr. Kelsey (34:08.398) Hmm. Yeah, and people are always afraid about that. So I think that's a really important piece. Michelle (34:13.188) Yeah, yeah. For sure, no doubt. So for people who are listening and want to hear more about you, you have a great Instagram also, by the way, with lots of amazing content. So how can people find you? Dr. Kelsey (34:23.566) Thank you. Dr. Kelsey (34:27.694) Yeah, come find me on Instagram at Fertility Confidence Method. And then I also host the Fertility Confidence Podcast. So there's tons of resources and information inside there. I do have a on -demand webinar that you can download. It's an hour long. We talk all about the fundamentals and five strategies to build your fertility confidence. So you can grab that at downloads .kelseyduncan .com slash on -demand. Michelle (34:54.212) Awesome. Well, Kelsey, this is such a great conversation and we definitely hit it off from the beginning. I agree on a lot of what you talk about. Dr. Kelsey (35:01.654) Thank you. Dr. Kelsey (35:13.486) Mm. Michelle (35:21.668) But thank you so much for coming on today. Dr. Kelsey (35:26.734) thanks for having me, Michelle.
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EP 291 Demystifying Non-toxic Living | Sophia Gushee Ruan
25 jun· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Sophia Ruan Gushée is a nontoxic lifestyle expert and author of A to Z of D-Toxing: The Ultimate Guide to Reducing Our Toxic Exposures and several detox workbooks. She is praised by experts in both medical and wellness fields for her practical approach to avoiding toxins and cultivating a healthier home environment. Sophia served on the Brown University School of Public Health Advisory Council and Well + Good Council. A graduate of Brown University and Columbia Business School, Sophia has helped thousands of people enjoy healthier lives by simplifying nontoxic living, while protecting the ease and convenience of modern life. https://www.ruanliving.com/nontoxic-cleaning-guide-may Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) - Instagram: @ruanliving, https://www.instagram.com/ruanliving/ - Facebook: Ruan Living, https://www.facebook.com/ruanliving - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srgushee/ - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ruanliving For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:01) Welcome to the podcast, Sophia. Sophia Gushee (00:03) Thank you for having me. Michelle (00:05) It's a pleasure to have you and to talk about something that I feel is so important. It's definitely like an uphill battle. I think that a lot of people are facing, but can be done in a easier way and approached in easier way. And I'm really happy to have you on to talk about this important topic. But before we get started, I would love for you to introduce yourself and give us a background and what got you into the work that you're doing. Sophia Gushee (00:34) I'd be happy to. I never could have imagined that I would be focused on simplifying non -toxic living. I grew up in upstate New York, always interested in eating healthy. I grew up in a tennis loving family. I exercised a lot since I was really young. And yet I always felt poor energy, felt really bad. And since... People always said to me, you're the healthiest person I know. And I felt really bad. I just thought something was wrong with me. I ended up after graduating from college, working on Wall Street for about 10 years in distressed investing. So I would focus on high risk, high return investments with imperfect information. And my job was to figure out. what are the value creation strategies we can execute to create the most value? And when I became a mom at age 34, I started accidentally learning about toxic chemicals, heavy metals, and radiation from what I was buying for my infant. And since I never heard about this before, my like, highly respected physicians never put it on my radar. My reaction ended up being very similar to what I did professionally with distress investing. I had to figure out are there credible sources to back up what I'm reading? What are the good facts? Why do the physicians not know about this? And what's a reasonable level of concern? always I ended up finding enough information that made me want to make a healthier choice. And I ended up developing a platform and a lifestyle to simplify how to make safer choices with shopping and simple things you do at home. So Ruan Living is based on the easy things you can do to reduce your toxic exposures. I ended up spending about eight years sharing the science that I learned about that I wish I knew sooner in a book that was published in 2015 and that's called A to Z of Detoxing, The Ultimate Guide to Reducing Our Toxic Exposures. But since I never wanted to read a book about this, I just wanted an informed mom to tell me what I should know and what I could do in as little time as possible. And I never found that resource. I've been building offerings to serve that desire of my younger self because learning how to not buy toxic exposures to bring into your home should not be as hard as it's been. Michelle (03:40) Oh my God, when you said simplify, I'm like, yes, that is exactly what we need because I find, and I found this when I first started working with fertility and of course learned about what the impacts were from these endocrine disruptors and the toxins that were exposed to from the chemicals that are in our products to our like healthcare and not healthcare them. I mean, the clean products in our, not clean products, I don't know why I'm getting, I'll delete this part. Cleaning products in our house, you know, there's so many different ways that it sneaks in, but it also in receipts, you know, things that you would never even consider. And then also pesticides and I mean, you can just like, you can keep going and EMFs too. That's another, that's a whole other topic. Sophia Gushee (04:15) cleaning products. Michelle (04:36) But yeah, we're exposed to a lot of things that we're not supposed to be exposed to. And when I first learned about this, I remember myself feeling overwhelmed, but then also being afraid to overwhelm my patients and my clients, because it can be really overwhelming to hear about. First of all, it makes you feel bad and then worried like, well, what happened up until this point? You know what I mean? I've been doing all these things and not realizing that I'm harming my body. But secondly, how does one get started? You know, that it feels like such an uphill battle and it feels like it's so overwhelming. I think that that was one of the things that I always struggled with in explaining things to my patients. Sophia Gushee (05:21) It's hard. Not everyone wants to know. And so I don't push it on people. But for those who are curious, I want them to know what I have to offer so that they can learn to modify things in their lifestyle and their purchases that they don't mind making. And the thing... Michelle (05:25) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (05:49) The main thing is, I forgot to finish a point I started with. Even though I felt really poor energy most of my life, it wasn't until after I started detoxing my home and detoxing my diet and other things to reduce my toxic exposures that I started to feel better than ever. And this is now during a stage in my life where I don't eat as well as I used to. I don't exercise as much as I used to. I have three kids, so I've been busy with that and working a ton. I don't sleep as well, and yet I feel better than ever. And I really do believe it's the reduced body burden that I undoubtedly now have. And when I look at images of mice who have been exposed to a lot of bisphenol A, a popular hormone disrupting chemical found in many household products like plastics. And I see how obese the mouse is in comparison to the control mouse who was not exposed to BPA. I think that's how I felt like all of high school. So what I encourage people to do is to follow an elimination diet. Pick one thing. one change you don't mind making often cleaning products is a really good start or your food containers or your pots and pans. Most people don't feel an emotional connection to those things and make a small change. And over time, you're going to feel really good about it, whether you feel better or you're just feeling empowered and you'll feel ready for another change. And over time, There are a variety of symptoms that are alleviated for a lot of people, whether it's skin issues or energy or other outcomes. A lot of studies actually show that these toxic exposures are influencing reproductive health and assisted reproductive technology outcomes. So if you're struggling to get pregnant, and you want to do everything you can for the healthiest pregnancy outcome possible, then detoxing your home and the other aspects of your life that you can do at a pace that's comfortable for you will be an invaluable investment for yourself and your offspring and also their offspring. Michelle (08:35) Absolutely. Actually, let's talk about pots and pans because I feel like that's always a confusing subject. What are good ones that you recommend? Sophia Gushee (08:47) I stick to the materials that have been around since before the Industrial Revolution. So cast iron, stainless steel, and glass are the staples in my home. After about 12, 13 years of just those pots and pans, which are black and metal, I went through a period of really missing color. And so I bought a ceramic Michelle (08:58) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (09:17) cast iron skillet thinking at the time based on my research that that was probably safe and then after spending probably about $200, very expensive pan, but it was a very pretty pink. I read that it could have lead in it and so my practical approach is I'm not going to throw it out. I like seeing the color around. I use it sparingly and Acidic foods like tomatoes can wear at the coating of cast iron and stainless steel. So you want to try and not like make tomato sauce in those materials. And so I eventually bought glass cookware. And so the glass is for the tomatoes and other acidic foods. But I also use the... ceramic glazed cast iron sometimes. Michelle (10:19) Got it. But the ceramic glazed cast iron, you were saying sometimes it can have lead. Is that what it is? Sophia Gushee (10:25) Yeah, studies on ceramics and ceramic glazed cookware have found mixed results. Some of them have found lead and probably other toxic chemicals too. It's just, you know, if they were just testing for lead, that's all they're going to find. But if they tested for a longer list of things, I have no doubt they'd find other things. Michelle (10:37) Mm -hmm. God, I wish they just didn't do this in the first place. So it would make our life so much easier. No, that they didn't put these chemicals in there or these like things that are harmful for the human body. Sophia Gushee (10:54) that they don't test. Well, they serve a purpose. I mean, sometimes these toxic exposures or substances are there accidentally, not intentionally. But sometimes lead is often used in many household products to create a desired color, to create weight in costume jewelry and children's jewelry. So if you think about it, this Michelle (11:08) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (11:27) like let's call it fake jewelry is made out of plastic. That's pretty light to make it feel more weighty, like a real, like, I don't know, heavy gold necklace. Heavy metals are used. And when lead has been replaced, it's often been replaced by cadmium, another heavy metal that is also toxic. So I have a 40 -day home detox that really tries to... Michelle (11:49) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (11:55) inform your common sense in this way because it's not really practical or effective to avoid chemical by chemical. I started out when I started learning about this topic, I developed a list of chemicals to avoid. So I'd read product labels to avoid BPA or phthalates or parabens. And then I just realized that substitute chemicals are Michelle (12:07) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (12:24) not always safer, sometimes they're more harmful. So BPA, for example, is a chemical that is used in the inner lining of canned foods and plastics on receipts, as you said earlier. In trying to use a safer formula or less controversial one, manufacturers would replace it with things like BPS or others. and scientists have found that BPS can be even more harmful. And so I ended up, you know, it is, we're now shifting, like governments are shifting towards regulating families of chemicals, which is much more impactful. For example, California is looking to regulate the family of forever chemicals, not just specific ones, like specific forever chemicals, like Michelle (12:56) Oh, wow. Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (13:22) PFOA or PFOS. But I actually in my book, A to Z of Detoxing, identified what I call household repeat offenders. So as you get to know materials or just things like, like I was saying, colors in your home, in like costume jewelry and ceramics, and understand that colors are used. for example, lead and cadmium used to create weight or lead is used to deepen, I think it's red or orange. I specify this in the 40 day home detox program. It just tells your common sense, oh, that's high risk. Most likely there's a heavy metal in there to create that rich deep color or to create weight for plastic. But... Michelle (14:10) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (14:19) I forgot your question. Michelle (14:20) Oh, no. I mean, it's just, it's just, yeah, it's all, it's all important. Like I think it's all important because when it comes to really understanding and kind of navigating through this, it could be very overwhelming. And one of the things is like you were saying, when you're focusing on one ingredient at a time, I mean, who can remember all of those things? That's the reality. Another thing that comes to my mind too, is you would think like, Sophia Gushee (14:23) Pots and pans, lots of hands. Yeah. Michelle (14:48) water or like a sparkling water, I know a lot of them have forever chemicals in them. Sophia Gushee (14:56) Yeah, water is tricky. Bottled water will have lots of micro plastics or nano plastics if it's in a plastic bottle, but even tap water can get contaminated through the pipes and the kitchen fixtures. So I think it's really worth investing in a water filter that is comfortable for your budget. Michelle (15:06) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (15:24) Any level of filtration is better than none. But just going back to pots and pans, just so listeners know there's a resource. I have a blog on my website that's the most popular blog on my website and it's on pots and pans. And so I list the specific ones that I use for my home because it is, I research every product I can. I find it. Michelle (15:26) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (15:51) not only important but intellectually really interesting and even some stainless steel pots and pans, you know, they're not all the same and glass is not all the same. So I try and make it really easy for people to click and buy if that's what they want to do or share my thought process so people can do their own research. Michelle (16:01) Mm -hmm. Right. That's awesome. So you do have a lot of resources on specific brands or what you've looked into that is clean. Like another thing is spatulas, you know, they say that the silicone spatulas are better because they could withstand high heat, but then sometimes they, they overlay rubber, which isn't good. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Sophia Gushee (16:43) I'd like to use the example of chocolate chip cookies. There's so many formulas, there's so many recipes for chocolate chip cookies. I grew up with chocolate chip cookies being made of white... Well, if you think about it, I grew up with chocolate chip cookies being really unhealthy. They were made of white sugar, white flour, bad oils. And nowadays there's some really great... Michelle (16:55) I am now craving chocolate chip cookies. Sophia Gushee (17:12) paleo recipes made of almond flour. I'm making it up. I don't know if it's almond flour, but like super healthy flour, healthier sugars, healthier chocolate. It can almost be healthier than most American breakfast options. And that idea is true for plastics, for silicone. for glass, for stainless steel. It depends on the recipe. And so silicone, I'm skeptical of. I'm sure like ideally medical grade silicone is what you wanna use. So for things like pacifiers or baby bottle nipples, I did my best to find medical grade silicone. For cooking, I avoided silicone and plastics for a while. Michelle (17:43) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (18:07) I would just use wooden spatulas and metal just when I need it. But you want to be careful not to use metal on cast iron and stainless steel because the scratching of the surface, even if you have nonstick pots and pans, scratches just facilitate the leaching of chemicals and metals into your food. So wood is better. But sometimes, like if you're making pancakes or you want to scoop up an egg, from your pan then silicone. I finally bought one silicone spatula. Michelle (18:43) So yeah, so in certain circumstances, but ultimately would be the best. Sophia Gushee (18:50) Wood is ideal. And if I remember correctly, I read this trick to tell if silicone was high risk. And if you bend it, like some bakeware is made of silicone, even a spatula, you can maybe like bend the tip. If you can see, let's say your spatula is a blue silicone. If you see a little white and you bend it, then that's a signal that it might not be the healthiest. Michelle (19:14) Right. Sophia Gushee (19:20) So let's go. Michelle (19:20) Right, because it has rubber inside. Yeah, I remember reading that as well. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So some are just better quality that they're like more thorough or there's a certain grading, right? Sophia Gushee (19:23) Yeah. next. Yeah, there are love different levels of purity. Michelle (19:38) Awesome. And then are there filters you recommend? I know I'm getting into the details, but I know that I have those questions and I think a lot of people do. It's like all those details are things that people know because water is so important. And of course they had Berkey, which was huge. Now they shut down. So like what's next? Yeah, I heard this is what I heard. I mean, I have, I have one and I have one at my office, but I know, but I did actually hear. Sophia Gushee (19:42) Yeah, I know, I'm happy to see it. versus Chess now. Michelle (20:08) And I don't know that they had like a lawsuit and they lost. And so they shut it down. So now that there are other companies that distribute them, but you don't know which one's official. So it's kind of, I'm not sure. Sophia Gushee (20:26) Excuse me. I have spent so much time on water filtration and air filtration. I... Michelle (20:33) Yeah. Sophia Gushee (20:40) This is what I do. I have, I'm so paranoid about what's in the water that I have invested to the best of my ability. And so under our kitchen sink, we have a nine stage water filtration system. So there's reverse osmosis, which removes everything, but one water. Michelle (20:59) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (21:09) expert explained to me, I'd never heard it before and I couldn't verify it online, but it kind of made sense. One water expert said to me that if you're drinking water that's stripped of everything and therefore unbalanced, as it goes through your body, it's looking to balance itself so it can leach your bones of minerals and take in other ways. Michelle (21:28) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, I heard about that. Sophia Gushee (21:33) So that made me really nervous. So I also have other materials in the water filtration system to rebalance the water. There's also activated carbon. And in our country home, we also have, our country home is in an area that has cancer clusters. So I'm even more paranoid about water out there. So I have a whole house water filtration system. So it's about, I think, Michelle (21:55) Oh, wow. Sophia Gushee (22:03) I don't know how many pounds, like a huge tank of activated carbon in our basement. So all the water entering our home gets filtered through the activated carbon and then distributed throughout the rest of our home, which was important to me at the time I installed it because my young kids were taking long backs. And... Michelle (22:26) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (22:29) but I still felt like I don't think that's enough, because there's just so much bad activity around our country home with a pharmaceutical company there and like some industrial activity. And so I also installed this nine stage water filtration system under the sink. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, then even a... picture with activated carbon is better than nothing. When I travel, I have water bottles that have a water filtration system in the water bottle. Because I notice when I travel, I end up not really drinking water because I'm afraid to drink water. And so that's helped. But my kids won't use it. They all have it, but they refuse to drink from it. So I'll keep trying. Michelle (23:00) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. I know the kids don't like to listen to us sometimes, but also when you use that, so you were talking about that charcoal. So that's not reverse osmosis. It's too simple. Right. So it just basically cleans it out with the charcoal. Sophia Gushee (23:37) That's not. the water filter, the water bottle. Michelle (23:44) The water, yeah. No, no, the water filter in the house. You had mentioned that you had the charcoal and then you had the night. Sophia Gushee (23:51) The basement has just the activated charcoal. And so that's actually a specific thing you want to ask for because not all charcoal is the same. So you want activated charcoal. And that just absorbs a lot of toxins. But after the water gets distributed through the pipes, it's going to pick up other things from the pipes. Michelle (23:59) Okay. Sophia Gushee (24:18) But also I don't think the activated charcoal is necessarily getting the forever chemicals or nanoplastics. So that's why I feel crazy talking about this or admitting it, but I then have the nine -stage water filtration system underneath the spout for drinking water. And it's just for drinking water. I don't use it for cooking. Michelle (24:41) Mm -hmm. It's not crazy. That's the thing. It's not crazy to want clean water. You know, it's really not. It's just so common to really be exposed to things we shouldn't be exposed to that we have to go out of our way to add all these reinforcements in order to just have clean water, you know, in our life. Sophia Gushee (25:07) Plus, I was learning about all the contaminants in water with really young kids and during pregnancies and nursing and knowing how influential these toxic exposures can be to young developing life. I would do anything to protect my children from these endocrine disruptors and neurotoxicants and carcinogens. So I did my best, but it was really hard to figure out. It really took probably over 10 years because not all the water filtration experts had a holistic understanding of my concern. So it just took many conversations and it took a while to find experts that were informed. Michelle (26:02) And are there ones you recommend or do you have anything on your website of which types of water filtration you recommend from like a pitcher to something under your sink? Sophia Gushee (26:15) I don't remember if I do in the blog. I have a detox Academy. It's a membership where that's where I am much more personal about the products in my home. I share a lot on the blog too, but I often, I, I often want to be able to provide more context for things because nothing's perfect. So I just want to be able. So in my detox Academy, there's more context for. Michelle (26:28) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Sophia Gushee (26:44) the pros and cons of a product, why I chose it. So for example, sunscreen. I reevaluate every year. It's highly complex. When my kids are really young, there is a certain brand of sunscreen that was rated the most non -toxic, but it's a thick white cream. So as my kids became more verbal, they're like, no. And now they're teenage girls. And so, Michelle (26:48) Mm -hmm. Yes, and the kids don't like it. They don't like it. Yeah. Sophia Gushee (27:14) branding matters, you know, like there are a lot of things that go into whether a teenage girl is going to reapply or apply sunscreen. So I had to go more toxic with some products. And so I just explain a lot more of those personal things in the detox academy because I was raised being told if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. And so I just am shy or reserved about. Michelle (27:17) Oh yeah. Mm -hmm, right. Sophia Gushee (27:43) talking about brands or products that are more toxic, but in the detox academy, I'll say, you know, this brand has a higher toxicity rating, but I use it because if I don't, then my children won't reapply sunscreen. Michelle (27:45) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. But no, it makes sense. I mean, I think it is something that can be addressed in a balanced way because otherwise, I mean, it'll, it'll create your, you know, it'll really create a lot of stress, which I feel like is also toxic. So you got to do it in a way that's balanced and sensible and a way that works. Sophia Gushee (28:21) Yeah, it's really important to not aim to be perfect about it and non -toxic does not exist. That's why I often say, like my podcast is called Practical Non -Toxic Living because you also have to enjoy life and that means taking risks and branding. Michelle (28:30) Right. Yeah, it's true. Sophia Gushee (28:48) Brings a lot of joy to teenage girls. Michelle (28:50) For sure. Well, I'm glad that you're saying that because I think that that is, you know, it's definitely an important aspect to address because I do think that that's what happens. It's like with anything you start to learn about it. You almost become almost like a toxic phobe. It's just like we become germaphobes when we have that microscope that we could see what it looks like, you know, so it starts to get in our minds and we're like, oh my God, I don't want that. And there's this like high level of resistance. And the truth is we really can't resist all of it. We cannot go completely clean. So it is important to realize that always it's never going to be perfect. And that's okay. I mean, part of it is obviously trying to alleviate the body's load, but it also, another part of it is actually making the body adaptable, you know, so the body adapts because the body knows how to detoxify as well. I mean, I know there's activated charcoal that people can take as well to help take out the toxins or bind to toxins in the body. So it's a real holistic balance for sure. Sophia Gushee (29:58) I really think of it as yoga off the mat. And I just, I support conscious, just conscious choices and whatever you choose, you shouldn't judge yourself. I had a client who was trying to help her mom detox her home, just detox cleaning products. And the mom was so resistant. And finally, after a few years, the mom finally admitted, Michelle (30:09) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (30:28) I just love my certain perfume and my red lipstick and I'm so afraid you're going to tell me it's so toxic I can't use it. And I said, tell your mom that she can hold on to what she loves and there will be plenty of other changes that she won't mind making. And that's really my philosophy. Hold on to what you love or what brings you great convenience. Let's work together on finding the changes you won't mind making. Michelle (30:37) Yeah. Yeah. That's actually really important. I mean, I will say like that, you know, my daughter likes this one perfume and, and it's not a non -toxic perfume, but I feel like if I get so strict, it's going to cause the opposite effect. And I said, okay, it's not a big deal. Just put it on your clothes, not on your skin. You know, sometimes you just do it once in a while and it's not like every day. So it's like, I think that that's a great way to look at it. It's just like, it doesn't have to be. all or nothing and a little bit it's not going to like be the end all be all like make such a big deal. Sophia Gushee (31:36) I'm sorry. It was really meaningful to me when I spoke to the former dean of the School of Public Health at Brown University, Bess Marcus, who did a lot of research on behavioral change with smokers, cigarette smokers. And a lot of her research in the 60s and 70s, she ended up using in her visits. to physicians to educate physicians on what scientists were understanding about the health risks from cigarette smoking. And after a while, a lot of when she would revisit the physicians, they often were really demoralized and they would say, I tell my patients that if they don't stop smoking cigarettes, their chances of lung cancer are gonna be much higher, but they won't quit. So what's the point? There's no point. And she said, the research shows that a patient, a smoker needs to hear this message at least seven times before the smoker will consider changing. So you have to be among the voice of seven, which helped me so much because if you're trying to educate your children, for example, Michelle (32:48) Mm. Sophia Gushee (33:01) to know that your goal shouldn't be to get them to stop something right away and listen to you, but just to be among the voices of the messages that will give them the right information or the right goals, then at some point, maybe they'll listen to it, but you really can't control other people. You shouldn't try. It'll just ruin your relationship. And so all we can do is just try and be a voice out there without the expectation of, Michelle (33:21) It's true. Yeah, 100%. It's true. Sophia Gushee (33:31) controlling behavior. Michelle (33:33) Oh, 100%. I think that you teach and if people want to take it, they take it. If they can't, if they don't want to, you know, we're all given free will. I have a very big proponent of that because it's important to respect that in others. And ultimately it's their decision. Um, but educate, I, I'm really big on, I think that it's so important to educate people and let them know, because then, then you can make an informed decision. However, that decision wants to end up. but you can make an informed decision because you have information to make that decision. And then if you choose to ignore certain things, that's your choice, but you at least you know before making that decision. Sophia Gushee (34:14) Yeah. Yeah, I just think people have a right to know if you're a health conscious person, then often this is an overlooked pillar of health that can be really empowering. Michelle (34:29) of without a doubt. And then let's talk about actually EMFs, because you had mentioned that I've seen that on your list. So EMFs are definitely something that a lot of it's invisible. So I think that sometimes out of sight out of mind, we can't smell it, we can't really hear it. It's like invisible, but we know it's there and we read about it, but sometimes forget about it. And it's something that we use, especially like if you're going to a library, I mean, anywhere that even a hotel, you know, with all the wifi, it's there in so many places. So talk about the role of EMF and how that can impact reproductive health. Sophia Gushee (35:14) I'll start by trying to explain EMFs in a way that can maybe help listeners visualize it, because I think that has helped me. So I now think of EMFs as just radiation. It's just energy. I think of it as energy. And our cell phones, for example, will maybe use energy from a 3G wavelength or maybe 4G also and 5G and Bluetooth, then cellular, 3G, 4G, 5G, Bluetooth, Wi -Fi, cellular, their energy wavelengths will differ, but also like the, there are other things about the wavelengths that will be different. So Bluetooth, for example, will be something like, whereas Wi -Fi will maybe be more gentle. And if you think of sound as energy too, but that it's almost like a harsh wavelength, it's pecking at our membranes. So if you have Bluetooth earphones in your ear, the... Michelle (36:31) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (36:42) that part of your skull is actually really vulnerable. So even if you're not using the earphones, it's open. So the earbuds are still trying to, they still emit energy towards each other through your skull. A wonderful scientist named Debra Davis, she's highly accomplished. She, Michelle (36:49) Because it's open. It's open. Sophia Gushee (37:11) She was integral in banning smoking on cigarette planes decades ago. She has been, God bless her, she's been pioneering science on how these electromagnetic fields from our technology are affecting our health and development and reproductive health outcomes. Side note, she won a Nobel Prize with Michelle (37:18) God bless her. Sophia Gushee (37:40) Vice President Al Gore on their work for climate change. So she's an amazing scientist, but she... I just lost my train of thought. Michelle (37:55) That happens to me all the time. We were talking about the earbuds and the yeah. Sophia Gushee (37:59) the earbud. She has, uh, she's published a few wonderful books, but she just re -released a book called Disconnect, which explains the science on how radiation from things like our cell phones and laptops are threatening our health and wellbeing. So if listeners want to get a great overview on that, I highly recommend Disconnect. And I also have... one podcast episode with Debra Davis on the Practical Non -Toxic Living podcast if they want to listen and her executive director is on another one. But she and another great scientist, David Carpenter, were part of a team that filed a lawsuit against the FCC for not considering the scientific studies, the peer -reviewed scientific studies that have come out since the wireless standards were set in 1996. And the judge ruled in their favor. But the judge said to the FCC, you have these list of things you have to now respond to, but there's no deadline for the FCC to respond by. So progress isn't really going to go anywhere, but at least the judge acknowledged that standards need to be updated and the FCC needs to consider what scientists have learned since 1996. But studies have shown that laptop radiation and cell phone radiation near like the male reproductive area damages sperm quality. So men should be really mindful of where they place the laptop and... Michelle (39:44) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (39:51) If you're going to have a cell phone on your body, ideally you don't, but that's really hard to do nowadays. If it is on your body, the perfect solution is to turn off your phone. Most people can't do that. The next best thing is to disable cellular Wi -Fi and Bluetooth. And so I just work on having my family members, my children and my husband use airplane mode to disable those things. Michelle (40:19) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Sophia Gushee (40:21) And so when you're walking, just know you're taking, you're disconnecting, taking a little break. And then when you need to check your messages, then you can easily enable all that. So that's, that's how I approach EMFs. So male sperm quality, sperm quality is easier to measure than female reproductive health. So even though they're, scientists don't know how radiation affects our ovaries or the DNA in our reproductive in the ovaries, that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause harm. It's just the studies for women are much more complex. Michelle (41:10) Right, right. I mean, if it impacts men, you would imagine, I mean, and then a lot of people put their laptop on their bodies or they put like other devices on their bodies. I've, you know, people have the Apple watch, you know, all the basically the smartwatches and it's constantly on their body. And I, I look at it from a Chinese medicine perspective and how we have energetic meridians and we do have an energetic body around us. and it's intelligent. So having anything interfere with that definitely impacts our bodies and our vitality. And, you know, so I definitely think about that. And let me ask you, what are your thoughts? Because some people say the 5G is like the most strong radiation. So I always have my kids opt in for LTE. And I do myself on my phone because I'm like, okay, maybe it's a little less radiation. Maybe it's not as good quality, but like the radiation is a little lower. I mean, I don't even know anymore. Sophia Gushee (42:17) They, again, all the like 3G, 4G, 5G, they're just different layers of energy. And so I think of the home as a sea of radiation. So the more you can take out or silence, the better for you, the less burden on your body. So it's hard. I mean, I live in New York City and I think what I aim to do with, I'm always using airplane mode. Michelle (42:22) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Sophia Gushee (42:47) which annoys most people that they can't call me and reach me right away, but so be it. But my, you know, I have to work within like, what can I ask of my family that won't have them completely reject everything I ask. And so for me right now, I'm just trying to get them to use airplane mode when they don't need to be wirelessly connected. If you're able to, Michelle (42:51) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yes. Sophia Gushee (43:16) have your family, your loved ones do even more than that, then that's better. It's just less of a stressor on your body. And so I just want to make the point again that some of these wavelengths like Bluetooth can weaken your membrane. So for example, studies show that cell phone radiation can weaken the blood brain barrier. which protects our brain from toxic compounds in the blood. So just keep in mind that idea that if you never give your body a break from a growing intensity of radiation in our environment, at home, school, work, even public areas, then your organs like your brain are more likely to... be more vulnerable to toxic compounds in your blood and elsewhere. So that's why it's just important to be mindful and to be able to create recovery periods for your body. And so the bedroom is a great area to focus on. It's hard to control many things in life and sometimes even in our homes if we live with other people. Michelle (44:29) Mm -hmm. Sophia Gushee (44:39) But the bedroom is a really good focus because hopefully you're sleeping seven to eight hours. You won't miss being wirelessly disconnected. So just make that energy in your sleep area be as silent as possible so your body can get higher quality sleep and be more resilient to what we can't control. Michelle (45:02) Yeah, one of the things that I love is earthing or getting a grounding mat because it does absorb excess like, you know, frequencies in our body just brings it down and it does it's been shown to help with inflammation. I mean, it does so much so much to help the body. I feel like it is one way we can kind of organize our energy again, like our body's energy. a way that is, you know, it gives us something that we can do to help. And then I've also read about shungite. And I think that there was a study done on shungite because of its high carbon content that does tend to neutralize radiation. Sophia Gushee (45:49) Yes, I'm actually wearing a shangite now. Michelle (45:51) Oh, look at you and I have this look. Sophia Gushee (45:57) Bye. After talking to scientists about different EMF protection products and other experiences, I'm now at a place where I like to assume they don't work just because I don't want to have a false sense of security. Because some products, some EMF protection products, especially ones that you plug into an electrical outlet, sometimes they cause more Michelle (46:21) Right. Sophia Gushee (46:33) harm than good or they just create. So for example, you can, for example, I have a router which I can't move outside a daughter's bedroom. So her bedroom gets a lot of radiation and an EMF expert recommended paint that to paint her walls, special paint that would block out the radiation. It took me years later and another EMF expert to realize that the cell phone towers beaming into her bedroom from outside her apartment that are on rooftops across the street. bounce off the walls of her painted walls and create a chaotic energy that's even more stressful for my daughter's body. I don't really know what's true, what the big picture is, but it just made me nervous about. That's one example among others that made me feel like I don't really know how to use these things safely. And so I am. Michelle (47:28) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Sophia Gushee (47:51) Like I think shungite probably does work, but how much shungite do we need? Like plants do detox the air, but for plants to be an effective air purifier, you probably have to live in a greenhouse. You need a lot of plants. Michelle (47:55) Bye. Right, right, right. This is true. I mean, yeah, we could definitely like, we can keep going and dive deep and, and, you know, enter the rabbit hole, go down the rabbit hole with so many of these things. So I definitely, I could see that for sure, but it is important to know. Sophia Gushee (48:23) But natural ways of earthing, like I'm a big proponent of, which is just skin contact with earth. I really like on grass and soil, the sea is great, immersing yourself in sea water and the ocean, those are really excellent healing ways to ground. Michelle (48:32) Yeah. No doubt nature is incredible and it really knows how to balance us. I mean, because we are part of nature, it's designed that way. So it is pretty amazing. So, I mean, this is just such a great conversation. I could literally pick your brain for hours. And I love some of the things that we talked about, really good information. And for people who are interested and want to learn more, how can they find you? Where should they go? on your website or, you know, navigate through this. Sophia Gushee (49:19) My website is great. The newsletter is the best way to follow the podcast, the detox academy, 40 day home detox and new blog articles and so much more. So I also have detox workshops online. So Ruan living R U A N is a Nancy living .com has also and I can share this link with you. I have a free. non -toxic cleaning guide, which is super helpful in explaining the safest way to clean your home. Michelle (49:58) Awesome. Yeah, that would be great. So Sophia, thank you so much for coming on today. This is such an informative episode. I really appreciate everything that you shared today. So thank you so much. Sophia Gushee (50:11) My pleasure.
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EP 290 The Ultimate Pre-Pregnancy Checklist | Alexandria Devito
18 jun· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Alexandria DeVito, MS, CNS, is a functional nutritionist who specializes in fertility and preconception health. She is the author of 9 Months Is Not Enough: The Ultimate Pre-pregnancy Checklist to Create a Baby-Ready Body and Build Generational Health. She is also the founder and CEO of Poplin, the first pre-pregnancy wellness company. Prior to founding Poplin, Alexandria worked in management consulting at McKinsey & Company. She holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. She also has a master’s degree in nutrition; extensive training as a doula, yoga teacher, and personal trainer; and is an Institute for Functional Medicine Certified Practitioner, all of which inform her approach to pre-pregnancy wellness. https://getpoplin.com
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Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Summary of this episode: Alexandria DeVito shares her journey from working in the corporate world to becoming a fertility health advocate. She obtained an MBA from Harvard and a master's degree in nutrition while working in healthcare. She then trained in functional medicine and started seeing clients as a nutritionist. Many of her clients were struggling to conceive, which led her to focus on fertility health. The conversation explores the challenges of fertility struggles and the lack of preconception health guidelines in clinical practice. It highlights the emotional, physical, and financial toll of fertility struggles and the need for better preparation and support. The conversation discusses the importance of preconception care and the impact it can have on the health of both parents and future generations. It highlights the challenges faced by females in accessing comprehensive medical care, which often focuses on contraception rather than preconception care. The conversation emphasizes that there is no such thing as starting preconception care too early or too late. Our bodies were designed to conceive, but our modern environments create a mismatch. Factors such as nutrition, supplements, and stress can affect fertility. Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Alexandria. Alexandria DeVito (00:03) Thank you so much for having me. Michelle (00:05) So we just had a really great pre-talk and we definitely are on the same page on so many things. And what I love about you is that you are here really to empower couples on the fertility journey. I got to look at your book. I was very excited because I feel like I really resonate with the And I just love the fact that you really approach it from such an empowering perspective. Absolutely love that. But for the listeners, I would love for you to share your background, how you got into the work that you do. Alexandria DeVito (00:38) Hmm, you got it. Yes, I mean, I think there's a lot of alignment philosophically about, you know, just how much more agency we have over our reproductive health and all the different ways that we can prepare to conceive, which I'm sure we will talk all about. So I came into the world of fertility actually, initially through the corporate world. So I was doing corporate consulting and was working in healthcare, largely with pharmaceutical companies and medical device companies. So I kind of learned the healthcare landscape from that lens. enjoyed working in healthcare. I thought it was just such an incredibly impactful field. And at some point I decided that I wanted to switch from what I felt was operating in a more reactive model of healthcare to a more proactive one. And so that was the impetus for me to go back to school. I went back and got my MBA from Harvard and then I also did a part-time Masters in nutrition on the side. while I was doing my MBA. And that was my way of adding more tools into my toolkit that were more holistic in nature. And then I finished both of my master's degrees, and I did training and functional medicine, and started seeing clients one-on-one as a nutritionist. And basically what ended up happening was I had a lot of clients that were struggling to conceive, and they had been on fairly long journeys, sometimes a year, two years, three years, and they were being ping-ponged between different providers and they still weren't getting the answers that they so deeply desired and they were not getting pregnant. And it really struck me, why was this happening? And so you know initially they were saying like do you have any other suggestions? Can you tell me what I should be doing? And this was also happening with friends. Friends of mine were also struggling coming to me not in a professional capacity but in a personal capacity asking for my advice and guidance. And initially I was really perplexed, right? This seems like an important problem. This seems like a solvable problem. What the heck is going on here? And so inspired by my functional medicine training, I started running these really broad panels of tests that. essentially were screening mechanisms. I looked at the clinical literature and saw all the reasons that could potentially interfere with someone's ability to get pregnant. And once I started running these broad screening tests, a whole bunch of things started flagging that my clients, other providers, had never even tested in the first place. And that was what really inspired me to say, wait a minute, like, why are we waiting until someone is several years into a fertility struggle? It is emotionally, physically, financially draining in most cases. Why are we waiting to find out these things that we could have found out before they even started their journey? And so that really inspired my exploration of preconception health, which is essentially the preparation period before and between pregnancy is, which we can talk more about. And I realized that there have been preconception guidelines over 40 years at this point, but they're not being implemented in clinical practice. And then certainly, if we think about ancient practices, which this is your specialty, these have been around for thousands and thousands of years. But we're not implementing them. And so I just felt that there was an opportunity to rewrite the dialogue and to really give people so many more tools to prepare to get pregnant like they prepare for any other major milestone, a wedding, a career, right? Even buying a house today has more infrastructure and support. And so that's really been my journey and the impetus and really spreading the word around this concept of preconception health and all the things that you can do on both a macro level and a micro level. to optimize it and build generational health. Michelle (04:25) I mean, I love this topic and I just, you know, it pains me that it's not mainstream, that this is just not information that people get. And I feel like they do get it after digging and finding. it would be so nice if people just knew this information because it's so important. And so let's go to that topic of really preparing the body. Alexandria DeVito (04:33) Mm-hmm. Michelle (04:52) because I think that is just something that most people don't even consider. Nobody really is told that. It's not something that anybody really has access to. I mean, the only access that you really have is like high school health education, where they tell you not to conceive and that anybody blinks and they get pregnant. And so just about your body and how it really works. And then, Alexandria DeVito (05:07) Hahaha See you soon. Michelle (05:20) it's that like the red pill that we swallow and realize like what's really happening and what's the reality and it's so different than what we've been told. So let's talk about preconception care like why is it important and how long do people really need to consider preparing themselves before conception? Alexandria DeVito (05:42) You had so many important points in what you just said that I, you know, I think it's actually really helpful. I want to elaborate on them and, you know, and amplify what you said. First, right, I think it's true. We don't get updated sexual education information in most cases, right? The last time most people had any sort of sexual education, it may have been in middle school or in high school, where presumably the goal is to prevent teen pregnancies. So the message that we are giving people... in that context is very different from the message that we might want to give to someone who's in their 20s, 30s, 40s, who's actively trying to conceive, right? But there aren't great mechanisms to update that information, right? And so I think that's one of the first challenges. I think the second challenge is that we are very bifurcated in our medical care for females, where we're either focused on contraception, so preventing pregnancy, or pregnancy. right, managing a pregnancy that is already in process. But this intervening period, this preconception period, when once we are stopping contraception and pursuing pregnancy, is almost been forgotten about. And I think it deserves its own conversation. And that's why I'm so happy to be here today talking about it, is I didn't even know preconception was a thing before I started researching it. And proper preconception care has big benefits. Number one is it makes it easier to get pregnant, and then number two, it increases the likelihood of having a healthy pregnancy and a baby. And it's certainly been known, been shown to reduce the complications of any sort of birth complications, pregnancy complications, and then also fertility challenges. And so this is relevant, whether it's your first pregnancy or your fifth pregnancy. it's relevant whether you're 23 or 43, right? And sometimes it can be even more relevant for subsequent pregnancies because a female's body can be so depleted of nutrients in a previous pregnancy or hormones may be dysregulated. I'm sure this is something that you see a lot of the time as well, right? And so what you do in the preconception window is incredibly important because it's been shown to affect the lifelong trajectory of the health for your child through the epigenetic markers in egg. and sperm. So it's just such a profoundly impactful time period where you're not only affecting your health and your reproductive partner's health, but that of your future child and even your child's children and beyond. It's wild. Michelle (08:18) Right. I know, isn't that crazy? The thought of that. Yeah. It's pretty wild. So how long would you say, generally speaking, how long do you think people should really consider pre-conception care, like before even conceiving? Alexandria DeVito (08:34) Yes. So what I generally say is, look, there's no such thing as too early. So if you're an overachiever and you want to start this early and you're thinking about pregnancy even in a couple of years, no such thing as too early. There's also no such thing as too late. Even if you've already struggled to conceive and or are about to pursue an assisted reproductive cycle, you can still be making these changes. Your body is incredibly, incredibly resilient. That being said, generally speaking, what I recommend is usually about a year, right? So kind of what you're doing in the three, six, 12 months prior to conceiving is the timeframe that your body is gonna be most susceptible, either positively or negatively, to what's going on in and around your life cycle. And that is true on the female reproductive side, where the last stage of egg maturation is around three to four months and kind of their susceptibility to what you're eating. environmental toxins and you're stress-loaded in that period of time, and sometimes we need multiple of those cycles. And the same thing for male sperm development. That's around three months, so again we may need multiple cycles depending on our starting point. But it actually takes about a year, the current literature is saying, for an egg to kind of move from its you know essentially sleeping beauty like state all the way through to ovulation. So that's just the time periods when we're thinking biologically what we want to keep in mind. Michelle (09:58) And so what are the things that you would suggest or what are some of the things that you would say people should look at? I mean, I know there's so and I know nutrition's a huge part in certain supplements, but I'd love to get your, your thoughts on that. Alexandria DeVito (10:12) Absolutely. Yeah, so here's what I would generally say. Our bodies were designed to conceive, but our modern environments were not. Right? And so there's a mismatch now between our genes and our environment. and our environment today is communicating to our bodies that we are in a reso unsafe environment on a pretty regular basis. And when we are in a reso unsafe environment, our body down-regulates reproductive function because it says, wait a minute, probably not the best environment into which to bring a child, so let's put it on pause right now. And so when I think about what are the factors that are driving as auspicious to conceiving. There's the macro level and then you know kind of what's going on for most of us, and then there's the micro level. So I'll split it into those two. On the macro level, you certainly alluded to several of these, right? We're eating a lot of food and we're getting not very much nutrition, right? So we're eating more food-like substances, less food, less nutrient density of food, less balanced. Michelle (11:13) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (11:20) diets, more blood sugar imbalanced diets, right? So these sorts of things are not conducive to fertility, and that's become the norm, not lately. A second big one is environmental chemicals that are coming at us through our food, our water, our air, our personal care products, our home care products, and I think particularly for females who are using, tend to use more personal care products than our male counterparts. You know, if One of your products has these endocrine disrupting chemicals in them, probably not that big of a deal, but when it's kind of like our shampoos and our conditioners and our makeup and you know our lipstick and our soaps and right, you know, it starts to add up and our bodies were just not designed to deal with this level of toxic load. Our bodies can naturally detoxify, but when it's all day every day, it becomes much, much harder for our body to excrete these compounds that we're not meant to be dealing with. So environmental toxins are another one. Stress levels, I think are another important one. We are more stressed and stretched than ever before. The data suggests this. We are sleeping less soundly and less cumulatively. And what happens there is our sex hormones and our stress hormones are in the same biochemical pathway. And our bodies will always prioritize survival over procreation. So kind of what, to what I was saying earlier, if your body thinks, oh, this is, we're in war basically, or we're in an unsafe environment, it's going to down-regulate reproductive function and switch from making your sex hormones to making your stress hormones because it thinks it's adaptive, it thinks it's protecting you. And what happens then is you don't have the raw materials, A, to get a regular menstrual cycle and ovulate, but then B, to carry a baby, right? So that's a big one that I see. And then the last kind of big one that I'll touch on is just movement. We've... significantly increase the sedentary-ness of our jobs even, and we you know we don't have to walk more than five feet if we don't want to right there's planes, trains, automobiles, right even scooters can kind of get us from point to point, and so when we think about movement the important thing about movement is that when we are moving we are getting you know this is very much in your realm right we don't have stagnation right so whenever we have good blood flow, that means we're moving oxygen, we're moving nutrients throughout our body. When we're sitting for long periods of time, we're essentially compressing our reproductive organs and creating stagnation, which is not great for kind of getting the things to go where they need to go. So those are the big ones on the macro level that I see, and I'll just briefly touch on the micro, which is that part of what was the impetus for me building the pre-pregnancy testing company that I now run, Poplin, is that know, it was inspired by what I saw working as a nutritionist, that there's all these things that we can test in advance to understand what's going on for you uniquely. Right now in fertility we treat in many cases all 25 year olds as equal, all 35 year olds as equal, and that's cellularly just not true. So if we can understand what's going on in your unique body, then we can have a much better intervention plan rather than kind of doing all the things you can do, the specific things that are relevant to you and your physiology. Michelle (14:24) Right. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, for sure. And a lot of people are not really getting the tests, even if they are available mainstream. I'm always like surprised when people get there just the TSH and very high and nobody looks to see is it antibodies that's causing that. Like, there's no antibody testing. And I've even had patients go to their doctors and ask for it. And they're like, I don't know why you need it. Alexandria DeVito (14:57) Mm-hmm. Michelle (15:05) And I'm like, really? Like just, it boggles my mind. So it's again, a shame that people have to really search it and seek it, but if you are able to, I definitely highly suggest that. I think it's a game changer to be able to really see what's going on and to do the functional testing. Cause functional testing is a lot more detailed than what we'll see in just like a doctor's office or So I think it's huge. Alexandria DeVito (15:32) I agree and I'm obviously hugely biased here so you know everyone has to take you know my opinion with a grain of salt but I've just seen you know because we're testing such a wide array of markers like I've never seen a test come back without something that you know someone could be working on and I've never had someone say you know I wish I didn't do that testing right Michelle (15:50) Yeah. Alexandria DeVito (15:50) it's really empowering. I think sometimes we can get scared and say, well, what if we find something out? And, you know, I don't want to know. But the things about the testing that we do, at least, is that everything on the test, except for blood type, is modifiable, which means you can do something about it. It's not some test result where you then are just, you know, sitting there, twiddling your thumbs, wondering, you know, what to do. You can modify it through diet, lifestyle, supplementation. Michelle (16:05) Right. Alexandria DeVito (16:19) Alternative therapies like the work that you do, right? Enhancing blood flow, managing stress levels, all of these things can really improve these biomarkers and you can see it in black and white, right? You can take the test, you can make lifestyle interventions and then you can take it again and you can watch your progress. Michelle (16:19) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not only that. I feel like people feel a certain way or they feel sluggish and they think it's them or something's wrong with them. And when people get that confirmation, and this is kind of like, I mean, it's obviously related because everything's related to fertility. Because you were saying what you said was so true. And I say the same thing. It's your body's going to want to survive. And if it doesn't have the means, regardless of the fact that it's going to also influence reproductive health, but it also influences your quality of life. Alexandria DeVito (16:44) Hmm Michelle (17:06) people actually see that and they realize, oh my God, this is what explains it. Because I think there's nothing more frustrating than getting that unexplained diagnosis. And when you actually see beneath the surface what's really happening and it gives you an explanation, I feel like that by itself is so empowering. Alexandria DeVito (17:14) Very funny. Michelle (17:26) And I agree a lot of times with functional medicine, yes, we can change diet, we can address what's going on. We can see the inflammation. And then let's talk about gut health, because I know that that's like a big thing. A lot of people hear about gut health. And at first, I think when people start the fertility journey, they think it's just, let's focus just on fertility. But then you don't realize, like, there are so many different factors that come into play. Alexandria DeVito (17:36) Yeah. Michelle (17:51) And there are different systems and all the systems come together to create the whole of you. And gut health is incredibly important, even in Chinese medicine, you know, the clean stomach or the center, really the center that makes the blood, supports your body's processes and energy. So I wanted to get your perspective on gut health and also to explain it to people who are first hearing about it. Like why does gut health matter so much when it comes to fertility health. Alexandria DeVito (18:22) And I want to hear more from your perspective too, because I think this is where it's so beautiful to hear that the different modalities and how they're looking at things differently. And in a lot of ways, there's just this underlying similarity between the philosophies too. So I think, you know, what you said is spot on, right? Fertility is an extension of our overall health. A lot of times we treat fertility as this below the waist conversation, or we treat it as solely a function of your hormones. And it is those things. It does involve your reproductive organs, and it does involve your hormones. But if we're just looking at those things, we're just kind of like looking through, you know, at- 20-30% of the equation, we're missing all of the other stuff going on in your body. And that's why when we look at testing, we're looking at your blood status, your hormone status, your metabolic status, your nutrient status, your immune status, all of these things affect your fertility. And you're talking about gut health, incredibly important. thing. When we think about gut health, just to give a few examples with my nutritionist hat on, just because you're eating, let's say, a quote unquote healthy diet does not mean you are digesting and assimilating those nutrients. So if we're eating in a stressed state, if we're eating while we're standing up, if we are judging the food that we are eating, all of these things actually decrease the amount of nutrition that we can extract from that meal. So that's just Michelle (19:30) Right. Alexandria DeVito (19:46) first really important principle. The second one is if you have happened to have been on hormonal birth control for any period of time, the literature is fairly clear that hormonal birth control can disrupt our microbiome. And so if we're not taking compensatory action to address that, then you're likely to be dealing with a disrupted microbiome. And then again, right, that may feed certain cravings. It may mean you're not, again, extracting nutrients as effectively from the foods that eating. It may mean that you're dealing with symptomology like bloating and gas and discomfort after meals that are certainly... not very pleasant right? And so you have kind of all of these different components when we think about gut health and if you just think about it from like a nutrient perspective, our gut is the way that our body helps us digest and assimilate. So if we're eating all these foods and we're not actually getting the benefit of the foods that we're eating, we're more likely to be in a nutrient deficient state. And nutrient deficiencies can delay time to pregnancy and they can also affect And so what we're kind of consuming in the three to four months prior to conceiving is what you actually have to offer to that baby in that first trimester. So ensuring that your nutrient stores are replete before that period of time is incredibly important. Michelle (21:12) Oh yeah, absolutely. Chinese medicine, It actually is what extracts into blood and blood is really important for women, uterine lining, but it also feeds the ovaries. So yeah, and it's amazing how now we're starting to find out a lot of things with research. And I love that. And it's also interesting because people do go on the birth not only impacts the gut microbiome, but also impacts your nutrients in your body, depletes certain nutrients. So for people who have been on the birth control pill for many years, I think that that's one of the things in mainstream they'll say, oh, you could be on the birth control pill for many years. And then the second you stop, you could just go ahead and get pregnant. So what has been your experience for people who have been on birth control pill and some people for over 10 years. And what are some of the things that you would look at and want to address to regulate and prepare people for conception? Yeah. Alexandria DeVito (22:16) Such a great question. So I mean, I think there's the talking about birth control can be such a. an important and also sensitive topic because I think it's, you know, I have such reverence for the freedoms that it has afforded myself for many years and also many, many women to pursue their lives as they deem fit, pursue their careers. And at the same time, I think we now have a generation of women who have been on hormonal birth control, as you said, from very early reproductive years, and we now have more information about the side effects. you know, I'm a big believer in this concept of informed consent, which means you get to decide what is best for you, and the only way you can decide what is best for you is if you're given all of the information to evaluate the pros and cons of this. And for, you know, many women, even understanding some of the things that we're about to talk about, they still may make the same decision, but that is not the point of informed consent. The point of informed consent is that you get to know all of this information and then decide what is best for you. And so what I think about hormonal birth control. Certainly what was not communicated to me is that, as you said, there are very well established nutrient depletions. And we've known this, you know, for almost 50 years now, by the way. So like the nutrient depletion side of this has been very clear. So nutrient depletions in many B vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E, and then also in certain of the minerals, so like magnesium, selenium, and zinc. And so what I would say there is you have a couple options, but number one is supplementing alongside hormonal birth control if you're still on hormonal birth control and are thinking about getting pregnant, not imminently, but in the future. And also if you go off of birth control, making sure that you're repleting those nutrients, because those are nutrients that are incredibly important for fertility and pregnancy. Michelle (23:58) Right. Alexandria DeVito (24:11) So I would say that as one piece, right? Certainly around the microbiome, we talked about that. And so giving your gut additional support might be helpful, right? Eating. probiotic foods, eating prebiotic foods, sometimes adding additional supplementation may be necessary. And you can understand if you're experiencing any sort of digestive upset, that may suggest that there's something going on with your gut. So a lot of yeast infections can sometimes indicate, okay, there's an imbalance in what's going on in your gut. Michelle (24:41) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (24:45) If you're having immune challenges, a lot of times that can actually be linked to what's going on in your gut. Issues with digestion or motility, a lot of people don't even realize that the daily bowel movements are normal, and so if you're not having daily bowel movements, that actually means you're constipated, and so many people are walking around constipated and not even realizing it. So all of these things can be manifestations of, you know, A, our lifestyle, and then also can be a function of long-term hormonal birth control use. So just understanding that. And what I generally say is that coming off of hormonal birth control, if you've been on it for many years, is an active rather than a passive process. So if you are just aware of some of these side effects of being on hormonal birth control, you can be a much more empowered user to take compensatory actions to address them. Michelle (25:36) That's such a good point because I think in many cases people don't really feel like they have an option, but they need to still learn about what they can do in order to empower themselves. It's definitely such a good point to bring up. I was going to ask you just kind of a side note, what are your thoughts? Because I'm reading a lot about it as of late, systemic enzymes, enzymes are really, really important, but I'm reading a lot about how Alexandria DeVito (26:04) Hmm. Michelle (26:06) amazing it is for the body, for inflammation. Alexandria DeVito (26:11) bit about them too. I haven't done the requisite deep dive that I would need to give a really thorough opinion here. It does seem to be showing some promise and you know I think there are some potentially interesting applications out there, but you'll have to stay tuned on that one because I need to research them a little bit more before I get into thinking about kind of what are the best suggestions for folks and kind of what are the specific instances that I think they can be. Michelle (26:27) Yeah. Alexandria DeVito (26:37) used in? What do you think is the most intriguing application so far? Michelle (26:41) It's incredible. So for example, wobe enzyme, which as of late, it's been out of stock for so many, but there are a lot of different places that do offer systemic enzymes. And basically what they do is they really break apart fibrin and you know, even plaque in our circulation system and our veins and arteries. And it could really help lower inflammation. There's been a lot of research on specifically whoope enzyme and they've even researched it for recurrent miscarriages which I find really interesting. it can also help in certain cases of autoimmune conditions has been shown to help with Hashimoto's. There's so many things that I'm reading about it and I'm really fascinated. So I'm starting to dig in a little bit more. and finding it to be a really amazing thing. And I think what happens is as we get older, we decrease the amount of enzymes our bodies have and enzymes are so brilliant, your body's so brilliant. It knows what to basically clean out and it will never affect your tissues. So it's really fascinating stuff. Alexandria DeVito (27:50) It is. The autoimmune conditions are the ones that I've seen some applications for. And it is really interesting to think about because certainly we're seeing autoimmune conditions on the rise and pretty precipitously. And autoimmune conditions are disproportionately present in the female population. So it's something that's important to be aware of. I think it's 80% of autoimmune diagnoses are in females. And on average, it takes about immune diagnosis. So it's just, it's wild. It's wild to think about that. And a lot of times, autoimmune conditions can have non-specific symptoms, which is why sometimes it can be hard to address. We do autoimmune screening, testing it at Poplin, and one of the reasons that we do it is because there's been such a precipitous rise in autoimmune conditions, and we're seeing a lot of people flagging for indications of autoimmune conditions. And it's not a diagnosis. You have Michelle (28:21) Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (28:50) diagnostic testing to get an autoimmune diagnosis, but it's a first step to say, okay, might there be some autoimmune processes going on? And a lot of times that will initiate people into conversations around family history that they, you know, weren't aware of but that they then become aware of around autoimmune conditions. And, you know, there are certainly plenty of things once you know that you're dealing with it that you can start to do to manage it in collaboration with your doctor. Michelle (28:51) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (29:16) So I think that's an area that's certainly right for a lot more research. And I'm excited to see that there are potential other alternative therapies as well. Michelle (29:23) Yeah, it's pretty fascinating and really looping back to the gut health, there's such a connection with gut health and autoimmune conditions. And right now we know that so many of the ingredients that we find in processed foods impact our gut health. I mean, some of the medications we take. So it's kind of like you were saying earlier, even just environmental. Alexandria DeVito (29:28) Yes. Michelle (29:45) It impacts our gut. it's not something that we can avoid, which makes sense to why so many people are experiencing that. You also have to be proactive in, like you said, like the environment. We're not living in a very fertile friendly environment. So you have to be proactive in looking into it and researching it and then figuring out what's going on with your specific body and then what you can do about it. Alexandria DeVito (30:10) Absolutely, I think it's true. You know, I wish it weren't the case. I wish we had, you know, better regulations in this in this area. And I wish that we could play in a safer sandbox, I guess, is the is the way I would say it, you know, but you know, unfortunately, until regulations catch up, or, you know, until we are in a place where these, these chemicals aren't around us in such a profound way, we have to take a lot more personal responsibility. And so, you know, Michelle (30:22) Yeah. Alexandria DeVito (30:38) it can sometimes feel overwhelming because there's a lot to learn around, you know, trying to understand, okay, well, what are the things that I want to be keeping in and around me? What are the things that I don't want to be keeping in and around me? And I just, you know, generally encourage people to be gentle with themselves as they maybe go kind of room by room, starting to look at the different things that are coming in, identifying potentially major sources or things that you're using frequently to start to minimize all these assaults that we have on our system, right? Because our body as I was saying earlier, and it was designed to regenerate and heal. And so it's really our job to figure out kind of what are the fertility blockers in our environment, right? And to remove those, because once you remove those, the body heals itself, right? It's miraculous. And so it's, you know, systematically finding, okay, where are these things in and around my environment that are not so consistent with my goals right now? Michelle (31:21) Mm-hmm. It does. It's so funny. I feel like we're like mentally related because a lot of things that you're saying are things that I felt for forever. I mean, I really like relate and I say it over and over again, because it is really true. It's just that hope that knowing that your body's incredible. It's so intelligent. It's beyond intelligent. And it's just a matter of really finding things and anything's possible. Truly, if you put your mind to it. And for just for people to hear about, I would love, and I would love to know also, what does poplin offer? Like what are some of the things that people can get tested? Alexandria DeVito (32:13) Mmm. So Poplin's designed a pre-pregnancy test for females and for males, and the idea is that we look at a vast array of biomarkers that are like 70 plus. So the idea is essentially that we're looking across five different categories of health. So I mentioned them earlier, blood status, your hormone status, your immune status, metabolic status, and nutrient status. And within each of those categories, I'll just talk briefly about some of the most common things that we see, but the idea is to identify things that could be red flags or yellow flags, with your ability to get pregnant or sustain a healthy pregnancy and have a healthy baby. So in blood status, this is where we're looking at the health of your blood cells, red blood cells, white blood cells. And so a lot of times there, we'll also look at iron storage, so your ferritin levels. And in your world, I'm guessing you see this manifested in a slightly different way, but we see a ton of iron deficiency. And a lot of times people are just coming in and Michelle (33:09) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (33:14) requisite iron is going to be really hard to, you know, to get pregnant and to sustain a pregnancy. It's a really important nutrient. So that's one that we see really commonly when we think about hormone status. That's the category that most people think about when they think about fertility. We're looking at a lot of different hormones there. As you, as you mentioned earlier, we look at TSH. We also look at seven other. thyroid function markers, right? So we are looking at thyroid antibodies, but then we're also wanting to look at what else is going on with your conversion of thyroid hormone, and sometimes your TSH is not as sensitive of a marker as some of the others, and so it will change later in the disease process, and so using markers that are a bit more sensitive to catch things earlier is important. Michelle (33:37) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (33:59) When I think about metabolic function, we look at blood sugar in that category. We also look at cholesterol. So a lot of times blood sugar function can interfere with regular ovulation. So we wanna understand what might be going on there that could interrupt. ovulation or even egg quality. I know this is something that you've covered before, right? Our blood sugar is intimately related to certainly our hormone function, but also egg quality and sperm quality. And then nutrients we've talked a lot about, but I'm still consistently seeing low vitamin D, low omega-3s. So these are things that are fairly easily addressable if you know that they're present. And so those are ones that we are seeing commonly. And our, you know, Michelle (34:33) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (34:44) choose to address that, in some cases through diet and in some cases through additional supplementation. Michelle (34:51) And are people able to just go on and do it for themselves or do they need a provider to access the tests? Alexandria DeVito (34:58) people can access it directly themselves. That's exactly what we're designed for. I think what I realized when I was working as a nutritionist and I was trying to get some of these tests like have other providers run the testing was that a lot of providers wouldn't run the testing. They wouldn't run as comprehensive of a panel as I thought was necessary. And it's really not their fault. It's because in most cases, insurance is driving care. Care is not driving what is reimbursed through insurance. And so providers are stuck even if they wanted to run it, they don't have the codes to be able to do it. So it is, you know, offered out of pocket. You can use HSA or FSA dollars for it. But the idea is that you know exactly what you're getting, you know exactly what you're paying, and then you can have this information. And most of the time, even though most doctors will not necessarily run the tests up front, once you get the results, you can bring those tests to your doctor and they... will engage with you and can help you address what might be going on, whether or not that's chronic disease management, medication, or further conversations about the patterns that are being seen. And with the purchase of your test, you also get a call with one of our pre-pregnancy educators, so you can talk about next steps as well to make sure that you're equipped for what would be most helpful. Michelle (36:14) Okay, so that you'll have somebody to explain to you really what the test means. Alexandria DeVito (36:19) Yes, and it's also explained in our app as well. So for each item, it says kind of what is this and what is the implication on fertility as well. So the idea is to just give you some context for what you're looking at, and then you could also speak with someone to ask additional questions about if there's anything that's still confusing. Michelle (36:41) Awesome. I mean, I think that's great. I think it's great for people to be able to do it for themselves if they don't, if they're not working with somebody and, have that accessible for so many people because going through this could be so daunting and then just not really understanding. And then just getting, you know, doors closed, like, no, you can't continue looking into this, or it's just unexplained. So like, what else is going on? Alexandria DeVito (37:06) That's so well said. I mean, I think I'm consistently surprised at how dismissive sometimes people can be about getting information about your own body. And I really do believe, like, don't let any, if you desire information about your body, don't let anyone tell you that you don't have a right to that. I think that is, you know, just not true. And so everyone has a different relationship with data. For some people, they feel it is empowering. Most people, I find, feel it is empowering to understand what is going on for yourself. And if that's you, if you feel like you want to understand, okay, what is my baseline? What is my pre-pregnancy wellness? What am I working with? Then I'd invite you to look into that because I think it's so much more impactful to have that information and then have paths to follow than be dealing with this kind of black box, right? Michelle (37:46) Mm-hmm. Alexandria DeVito (37:59) to be a black box, though we often treat it as such. There's so many indicators that our body is giving us through our menstrual cycles, through our symptoms, and then through, you know, physiologic testing like blood testing and urine testing. There's so much information that our body is giving us about what's going on that we can use to understand earlier indicators of fertility than just getting pregnant. Michelle (38:21) Absolutely. So for people who want to find out more about you, and do you work with people one on one still what do you offer? Alexandria DeVito (38:32) Yeah, absolutely. So if people are interested in the book, that's... at 9mon the number nine, and that has all the information about kind of how to prepare to get pregnant and many of the factors that I talked about. I also talk about testing in the book as well. If people are excited about getting tested and are interested in getting tested, that's through Poplin, and the website for that is getpoplin.com, G-E-T-P-O-P-L-I-N. I'm not working with clients one-on-one anymore. It's only through Poplin these days, so if that's something that you're interested in, encourage you to come join us. We have an incredible set of pre-pregnancy educators as well who are deeply passionate about the space just like you and I are, Michelle. And so if you want to get a little bit more insight into what's going on with your body or your reproductive partner's body, that's what we're here for. Michelle (39:24) Awesome. Well, Alexandria, I feel like we're on such similar pages on our approach to fertility And I love the fact that you're all about empowerment and education and getting people to really understand. that their body is incredible and so intelligent and so powerful and that you can actually do something about it. So I had such a great conversation with you today and thank you so much for coming on. Alexandria DeVito (39:52) Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. And please keep doing what you're doing. It's absolutely incredible spreading the word and serving in this space. It's beautiful.
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EP 289 Can Psychedelics Play a Role in Mind Body Healing? | Paul Austin
11 jun· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Paul F. Austin is one of the most prominent voices in the world of psychedelics. As the founder of Third Wave, he has educated millions on the importance of safe and effective psychedelic experiences. A pioneer at the intersection of psychedelics, personal transformation, and professional success, his work has been featured in Forbes, Rolling Stone, and the BBC's Worklife. Paul helps leaders, creatives, and pioneers leverage psychedelics for exponential personal growth and professional development. He views psychedelics as a skill refined through mentorship, courageous exploration, and intentional use. According to Paul, learning how to master this skill will be crucial in the story of humanity’s present-future evolution. Note: Psychedelics are not legal in most U.S. states so it’s important to take this episode as educational and not medical or suggestive advice. This is a potent controlled substance and this episode is not intended to recommend or suggest that anyone take it. Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) Social Media Paul F. Austin: - IG: https://www.instagram.com/paulaustin3w/ - X: https://twitter.com/PaulAustin3w?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor - LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-f-austin/ Social Media Third Wave - YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCATHWJYqouqzF3-5GMIaOuQ - FB: https://www.facebook.com/thirdwaveishere - X: https://twitter.com/thirdwaveishere - IG: http://www.instagram.com/thirdwaveishere - LI: http://www.linkedin.com/company/third-wave-psychedelics/ In this conversation, Paul Austin discusses his personal journey with psychedelics and how they have impacted his life. He explains the potential therapeutic benefits of microdosing psychedelics, such as psilocybin and ketamine, and how they can help with mental health issues and even fertility. Paul emphasizes the importance of finding a qualified practitioner and following a safe and responsible approach when using psychedelics. He also shares resources, such as his podcast and coaching program, for those who want to learn more. Takeaways Psychedelics, when used responsibly, may have therapeutic benefits for the mind. Psychedelics can promote neuroplasticity and reduce inflammation in the brain, leading to positive changes in mental health. Finding a qualified practitioner and following a safe approach is crucial when using psychedelics. Resources like podcasts, guides, and coaching programs are available for those interested in learning more about psychedelics. Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast fall. Paul Austin (00:01) Thank you for having me on, Michelle. Michelle (00:03) I'd love for you to share your background, how you got into this work. And then we'll obviously dive in a little later. Paul Austin (00:10) Well, the topic we're covering today is or has been a fairly taboo one. And the place that I grew up in was raised in that was, I would say particularly so. My family was pretty religious growing up. So we were in church every Sunday. This is, I grew up in Michigan in the Midwest and. at the age of 16, I started to smoke a little cannabis and soon after that tried alcohol for the first time. And then a few years after that started to work with LSD and mushrooms. And early on in that journey, like pretty much right after I started smoking weed, my parents found out that I had been, you know, trying cannabis and they sat me down and Uh, one Sunday after church and my dad looked at me and was like, you know, I haven't been this disappointed since my brother passed away in a car accident 35 years ago, something like that. So it clearly pained my parents. I mean, it clearly impacted them way more than it impacted me. There's this very negative. Mine was very positive. So it just became clear at that point in time that we were just, we were of different perspectives, which I accepted and was fine with. I was much more the rebel and you know, uh, the person who was skeptical of groupthink and was always asking questions and sort of being a little bit of a menace. I was definitely a little bit of a menace growing up as a young kid. But that then matured into, oh, I would like to choose a path that's more unconventional that, you know, most people don't necessarily follow. So when I was 21, I moved to Turkey and I had been influenced by my early LSD and psychedelic use. I had had these experiences with... either by myself or with a small group of friends in the woods, in nature, and always just felt very creative from that place and wanting to sort of paint my own picture or dream my own dream or create lifestyle design in a way that I felt was very intentional. And so I thought the first the first path coming out of university would be fun to travel. So I taught English in Turkey, and then I started a business in Thailand like an online business, like a sort of early digital nomad remote work lifestyle. And I was traveling all over. I'd go to Vietnam. I'd go to, you know, I did road trips all across Europe. I went to the Amazon for a conference in Ayahuasca at one point. So very nomadic traveling all over. And soon after that phase started, I moved to Budapest and I worked with LSD again and had a very profound experience. And this was 2015. And at that point in time, I was noticing more people were talking about psychedelics. There are more conversations happening around them, more research being published. So I started Third Wave as an educational platform resource for like cultural or legalization of psychedelics. And the story kind of like this first chapter sort of concludes when in 2018, Michael Pollan's book came out, How to Change Your Mind. I gave it to my dad to read and he read it. And soon after he started to microdose and then soon after that, I guided him through a high dose psilocybin journey. So, you know, this is almost 13, 14 years after that initial conversation we had, their minds had been changed quite a bit. And now my parents are, you know, fully supportive and behind what I do professionally and all those sorts of things. So what I've sort of learned over the last 10 years being professionally involved in this work is. you know, if we have our own experiences with them, we speak from that place, you know, we, it's, it's good not to sort of willfully push it onto others, but providing education, providing context, providing answers to questions if they're interested. That's really what I strive to do and support people in, in and on their path with psychedelics and microdoses. Michelle (04:13) Yeah, I mean, I know this sounds almost like a random topic to be putting into fertility work. I like to kind of talk about everything. I think everything that could be medicinal for yourself on a psycho spiritual, level to me is welcome. And I'm interested because I see a lot of really emerging data, information about how this can help people, like deeply in a different way than some of the pharmaceuticals, which if anything, kind of like push down what we're really feeling and like going into the root of what's happening in your body or your mind can impact your body and can also impact your mind and it can also impact how you perceive the world. And I had one of my patients, actually a couple of patients, um, do this, microdose. And they've come to me and told me, one of them, I remember her having major anxiety and I was helping her prepare for IVF. She had many failed rounds and was going through this for many years and young woman, you know, too. So she was young and she's like, I don't understand why we can't start a family. And I felt her anxiety, like literally can feel her anxiety every time she used to come in. And I would talk to her about meditation and different things. And then, One day she came in and I felt like she was like a different person. And she told me that she started microdosing and that it really helped her tremendously come out of anxiety. And shortly thereafter, she ended up getting pregnant. She had a positive outcome. So I was like, okay, this is interesting. And I've talked to another patient of mine who had miscarried. And after many years of trying, and finally got pregnant and miscarried and went through a lot of anxiety around it. And she told me, and for a while actually, I didn't hear from her. She needed a break. And it's so very often this happens with this field. You know, people go inwards and try to figure out or take breaks really from trying anything because it could be so emotionally exhausting. And she said the one thing that really helped her is she microdosed as well. And then I started watching, I love Gaia. TV, I watch a lot of topics on there. And they were talking about microdosing and really the power of psychedelics and how it can impact the mind. And I'm just intrigued. And then your people reached out to me. I'm like, you know what, this is a really interesting topic and I really want to look into this. And you're right. It is kind of a taboo because it's considered a controlled substance, but it is a lot of people are starting to look into it for therapeutics because they're seeing that it has an impact on almost rewiring the mind. And I find that really intriguing. So I really want to talk about like, how does this work? How does it work on the mind? Like, what's it? What's the impact like for microdosing, for example, psilocybin? Like, how does that work? Paul Austin (07:16) Thank you. So when we think about the mechanism of action of low doses of psychedelics, there's the protocols that we can follow, like do it twice a week or do it three times a week. The prescription sort of being minimum of one month up to three months and then take a two to three week break and cycle off of it. So that's very much the what of. Microdosing. The how is where you get a little bit more into why this might be impacting fertility, why this may be impacting our body's sort of sense of homeostasis or, you know, a sense of vitality or full health. And that really looks at its impact on certain neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine. It has a positive impact on both. So it helps with focus, attention, motivation. It also helps people to feel better, to feel good. And that mechanism of action also plays out in its impact on neuroplasticity and the production of BDN -Apran -Gerab neurotrophic factor, which is a precursor to neuroplasticity. So what we know about microdosing is that when it's done in a consistent rhythm, Ideally combined with some form of practice like meditation or yoga or just more mindfulness around what we eat. So some sort of intention is weaving through it. It can drive towards a number of beneficial outcomes depending on the context. So some people will say, oh, this really helped me to get off my SSRIs. This helped me to get off certain benzodiazepines. This helped me to get off. ADHD medication, some people will be like, Oh, this really helped me to find my rhythm again in work and I was able to access flow or some people are like, Oh, this really helped me manage or heal my relationship or help me to heal fertility issues. So it depends on the context depends on the intention behind the overall experience. But the driving factor is is that impact on neuroplasticity. Michelle (09:30) Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (09:31) and what it does to the prefrontal cortex in terms of helping us to plan and think and change and shift. But it also has a really an impact on the amygdala, which is our field response center. So oftentimes people notice they become more courageous. They're more willing to sort of step outside their normal bounds of what's comfortable. And that sense of courage allows people to explore new territory, to try new things, which can often lead to beneficial outcomes. Michelle (09:51) Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (09:58) because so oftentimes we get stuck in ruts, we get stuck in default patterns, we get stuck in doing the same thing over and over again. And we often need a little push to break those habits and those cycles and learn to be, to sort of, I would say, regulate ourselves in the midst of uncertainty and chaos. Michelle (10:17) Right. And then just to kind of be clear, it's not, you're not getting the courage, it's not like you're going to be more of a risk taker per se. It's just, it gives you more of that feeling where you're able to more. Paul Austin (10:32) Yeah, it depends on the context, right? There are some people who certainly they go drink ayahuasca, they smoke five MEO, or they do these more higher therapeutic doses of psychedelics and they it impacts them in such a way that they make decisions that sometimes they later regret like this is part of the education around responsible psychedelic use is if you have a really big experience, give it time before you're making any major life decisions. Michelle (10:49) Mm -hmm. But with microdosing specifically, it's not. Yeah, yeah. Paul Austin (10:58) with microdosing not so much, right? And so that's sort of the upside or benefit, especially to someone who's fairly new to this is it's almost like contained risk taking, you know, not unhealthy risk taking or not impulsive behavior that could be detrimental or maladaptive, right? We're really looking at just a slight uptick in, oh, I'd like to try a new thing. Like I think it would be helpful to do something that's slightly uncomfortable. Like, Cold plunging would be a really good example. Cold plunging is very uncomfortable. But we know that it's very beneficial and very safe. And so that's really for a lot of people would be a risk, but it's a very healthy potential beneficial risk. Michelle (11:28) Mm. Yeah. Right. And neuroplasticity, people are hearing that for the first time, it basically means that you can rewire your brain and kind of make changes. Is it beneficial in the sense that it almost allows you to change habits more easily than without it? Paul Austin (11:56) So there's been some interesting research on octopus with MDMA. So octopi are normally very independent. They're not really all that social. And there was a researcher at Johns Hopkins who gave them MDMA. And noticed that for this critical learning period of time, they were more pro -social, they played together, they were in that way. And that taught them these new patterns and new behaviors that they continued to exhibit after the MDMA totally passed through their system two weeks, three weeks later. And so the sort of, that's probably one of the most interesting elements. Cal Berkeley, UC Berkeley is now carrying out further research on that. They just received a $6 million grant from the Bob and Renee Parsons Foundation. Bob was the founder of GoDaddy and is now supporting psychedelic research. And so they're studying what is that critical learning period after we do a high therapeutic dose. And what it looks like is it's two to three weeks. where there's this open window of change in your brain where it just becomes easier to try new things, to weave in new patterns and weave in new behaviors, to develop what's called cortical plasticity, to develop more gray matter in the brain. All of this helps our brain become younger, communicate better, helps us to have more energy. And it's also related to just overall inflammation, which it could be the tie into fertility as well. When we're looking at overall, you know, holistic health metrics to track and understand it's inflammation. And psychedelics are shown to have a beneficial and positive outcome and impact on lowering inflammation. And because, and that's also, it's also why it has an impact on neuroplasticity. Because when we lower inflammation in the gut, we lower it in the brain. Michelle (13:22) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (13:41) when there's less inflammation in the brain, the brain becomes younger, it becomes healthier, it becomes more like a sponge, if you will. And so that impact on inflammation, I think is responsible for a lot of the, there are people who heal shingles with microdosing. There are people who have gotten through Lyme disease with low doses of psychedelics. There are people who found beneficial outcomes for cluster headaches, which are one of the most, like, Michelle (14:04) Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (14:09) just awful feelings in the world and then fertility as well. So when I look at that overall holistic impact, I'm really wanting to understand its impact in inflammatory markers in particular, and if by significantly reducing those, it helps to create more space for things like babies. Michelle (14:28) So MDMA is that what is in psilocybin, like mushrooms? Paul Austin (14:35) MDMA is also known as ecstasy psilocybin is what's in mushrooms. So psilocybin is also produced synthetically That is a tryptamine. It's a certain typical classic psychedelic MDMA is what's called allophenethylamine and it has a methamphetamine component It's more stimulating which can really help with PTSD in particular. So MDMA will be approved by the FDA most likely this year Michelle (14:40) Uh huh. Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (15:00) to treat PTSD. So by the end of this year, there will be medically available MDMA for people who have PTSD. Psilocybin will be a few years on, but it's currently legal in Colorado and Oregon and potentially soon in California and other states. Michelle (15:16) So if somebody was to, were to want to do this therapeutically, are you able to do this therapeutically, psilocybin other than those states? Paul Austin (15:27) Well, yes and no, right? Like there are, there are plenty of people who work with psilocybin in underground circles. There are a lot of people who grow their own mushrooms. We have a little cute grow kit on third wave where we make it really easy for you to grow your own mushrooms. There are a lot of people who fly and travel to Oregon or they fly and travel to Colorado. I also had a previous project many years ago where I set up a legal center in the Netherlands. We'd have people fly over there, a lot of Americans fly over to the Netherlands to do a high dose retreat experience. But all of the policy is really focused on these high dose therapeutic experiences. There isn't a lot that's done specific to micro dosing. So one project that I've been focused on building has been something called the micro dosing collective, which is a 501c3 nonprofit to pass policy. related to adult use of psilocybin so people can have access to microdosing and can do it at home legally. Right now, most of this is illegal. But it's... Michelle (16:36) Yeah. So obviously I don't want to like be telling people to do anything illegal, especially here on the podcast. Like I don't want to, you know, that's not the message here, but I do want people, if they're interested to know what avenues they could do that was, legal. Paul Austin (16:53) which are basically these retreat options, I mean, in Oregon and Colorado. We also on third wave, we have directory of clinics, ketamine clinics. Ketamine is legal and used widely for various issues and conditions. It's very safe, it's very effective. It's been approved by the FDA for treatment resistant depression, but generic ketamine is also widely available. So folks wanna stay on the right side of the law. So to say, ketamine clinics are great. Michelle (17:02) Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (17:21) a lot of retreat centers in Oregon and Colorado that are starting to open as well as Costa Rica, other places in South America, the Netherlands, even Canada. So there are more and more options that are coming online. And again, by the end of this year, MDMA will be medically available. My expectation is that within five to six years, we'll see widespread accessibility through various channels of psychedelics and plant medicines. And... Even now, if you kind of know how to look or where to look and Third Wave is a great resource for that, you can do things that are totally legal and very effective currently. There are lots of options for that. Michelle (17:56) Let's talk about ketamine because I actually have heard, I remember going to a conference and they talked about ketamine and the benefits that... What I like about it, I mean, obviously this isn't my specialty at all. I don't really know about my medicine in general. It's not my specialty, but I know that a lot of my patients coming in, they were taking antidepressants, like a lot of things that I hear is it's very hard to get off of it. Sometimes people would say they almost feel like a numbness in their emotion. It sounds like what's being given mainstream is not the best option, like for long -term, and it's not a real solution. It's more just let's get through this. And I'm not saying to get off anything. If you are on it, obviously listen to whatever Your doctors are telling you, you know, whoever you're choosing to work with, it just doesn't seem to me from listening to what my patients are telling me that it is something that is long -term or root, you know, like a root cause perspective. Whereas what I'm understanding from ketamine and even microdosing just based on what I've heard is that it gets into the root. of what's happening gets you really to the root to clear out what it is that's causing the depression or any kind of anxiety. So I've heard a lot of great things about ketamine that it works, it sustains itself. If you do it, it actually has a lasting effect and changes and rewires the brain, which is what got my attention. Because it's much better if you don't have to something for the rest of your life. Or that if you get off of it, you're going to have all kinds of symptoms. So it's so much better to know that there's something out there that could possibly really make a lasting healing effect on the mind. So talk to us about ketamine. And obviously that is legal. And it's something that it's a great option, it seems like for a lot of people, like who should look into it or consider it and who should not. Paul Austin (20:11) The academies are great. Michelle (20:12) So it's three questions. Paul Austin (20:14) Yeah, I'll do my best. If I don't cover anything, we can circle back. But ketamine's a, it's a class, it's a disassociative. It's been used since like the 1950s as an anesthetic in emergency rooms. It's one of the most widely used drugs in the world. It's incredibly safe at even very high doses for sedation, especially of young kids in the ER. And they found out, I don't know, maybe 20, 25 years ago that it had antidepressant effects. Michelle (20:17) I'll remind you. Paul Austin (20:41) And so it's fantastic for suicidality. It immediately interrupts those thought patterns. It's one of the best currently available treatments for suicidality. It's really helpful for depression. A lot of therapists are now using lower doses of ketamine within a therapeutic practice. So they'll do a two hour session instead of a one hour session and guide someone through a low dose of ketamine as part of that container. That's what we call a psycholytic approach. It's similar to microdosing or low dosing, but just slightly more. And ketamine is legal everywhere. It's widely available. There are in -person clinics. There's also the opportunity to do ketamine at home. I've done both. I've gone into clinics and worked with ketamine and I've also done it at home. Both have upsides and downsides. The IV ketamine, which happens in a clinic is more intense and it's more of a sterile, a bit of more of a sterile environment. Some clinics don't provide great support. Some clinics do. You want to work in a, go to a clinic that provides great therapeutic support as part of your treatment protocol. At home, you have a friend or a family member who's sitting for you and virtual coaching, but the ketamine is simply sent to your home. You do it in the safety of your own home. A lot of people enjoy that. And as long as they get the dosage correct, you know, adverse outcomes are minimal. They happen, but they're very minimal with ketamine. And I think it could be a really great bridge or sort of transition point for, especially if people are on SOS or on antidepressants, it may be a new useful modality that could be helpful and effective. This isn't necessarily the case for everyone, but maybe 60 to 70 % of people find that ketamine works for them and is effective. And, you know, I think it's... It's for me at least and for a lot of people I would say there's something deeper in mushrooms and ayahuasca and these classic psychedelics that ketamine doesn't offer as much. Ketamine is good to do every now and then. I love to do it in combination with body work or massage because it has an anesthetic effect so I can work with practitioners that can get deep into tissue and fascia which can be very, very helpful for just creating more space in the body. So I have very intentional use cases for it in specific contexts, but by and large, I try not to use it much because it is a disassociative, it can be addictive. If you do it consistently for a period of time, it can cause bladder issues. And so it's good to have sort of a every now and then approach to working with ketamine after maybe an initial treatment protocol. The initial treatment protocol typically calls for six to eight to 10 treatments within the first two to three. Michelle (23:03) Mm -hmm. Paul Austin (23:22) to four months, right? Pretty concentrated and focused initial treatment. Michelle (23:25) Yeah, and also, I mean, a lot of this obviously is medicinal and like any medicine, you should really be aware of like what you should do or not do. I definitely highly suggest talking to somebody qualified and obviously doing it through the But what do you suggest if somebody's Because it is something that like can be potentially, depending on like any trauma that you have in the past, it can potentially put you at a place of extreme vulnerability as well. What are some things that people should be aware of if they're looking into this? Paul Austin (24:03) You wanna find a great provider or a great practitioner, someone you can trust, someone that has an ethical practice, has integrity, is compassionate, is experienced ideally. And you wanna really interview the person who you're intending to sit with or the provider or the clinic or the retreat that you're planning to go to. You wanna know these people. So I typically tell people to focus on five aspects. There should be an assessment process. They should do an intake on your personal background and history. You know, if you're on any medications, if you do have a history of certain, you know, trauma or alcohol, whatever it is, right? All of that is important to know and for you to communicate to them in an initial intake. Then they can assess whether they can support you or whether they need to refer you out to someone who can. support you. So that's also an important element of working with the practitioners, you want to make sure you're in good care, you want to make sure you're in the hands of someone who you know can take care of you and facilitate and guide you through a safe and effective experience. So asking, kind of getting making sure there's an intake form, asking them what they do for preparation, do they offer preparation support, what type of preparation support. What's the experience like? How much medicine? What medicine are we taking? How long does it last? Right? And what might be some of the different elements of it? And then what do they do for integration? So going back to that critical learning period that we talked about, how do they support the integration process? Do they offer support after a, you know, working with a psychedelic experience? And then what, what do they know about microdosing? That would be the fifth one. Can, can they help coach you through or support you? Michelle (25:40) it. I mean, this is definitely a fascinating topic, I will say. And I do think that it's, it has a huge place in the future of mind, body of medicine. I just think that there's just so much potential here, which is why I really wanted to have you on. Like it was just definitely something that I was like, okay, this is going to be a really interesting conversation. That being said, I don't think that it's for everybody. And I definitely think that people need to like look into it, but it's, educational. It's really important that people listen and hear that there is a potential for this. And I do think that it could be a huge asset to mind medicine and hoping that, obviously, it could be done in a way that can really benefit with qualified practitioners or people that really know what they're doing, because it is potent. That's why I say it's not for everybody. It is a very potent medicine. It's not something that should just be... taken without thought. So yeah, if people want to learn more, what kind of resources do you offer and how can people find you? Paul Austin (26:47) Yeah, so if this, if this made anyone curious, so they want to dive in, learn more, we have, I've hosted my own podcast for years now. We have over 250 episodes. Uh, so you can jump into the podcast. You could, we have a bunch of guides on our homepage of the different substances. You can dive into those with a lot of the research and context on them. We have the directory that I mentioned. So all of that's available. And then if there are any people who want to take the next step, who want to go deeper. We offer coaching support as well through a one -to -one coaching program called personalized psychedelic coaching. So reach out to us, let us know how we could support. This was a fun, quick hit, quick dive into psychedelics and microdosing. And if anyone wants to reach out to me individually, I'm on Instagram and Twitter quite a bit, PaulAustin3W, so find me there. Michelle (27:39) I'll have all the links shared in the episode notes if anybody wants to check it out. And Paul, this is a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and elaborating and explaining more about the therapeutics of psychedelics. Paul Austin (27:53) Thank you, Michelle. This was a ton of fun.
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EP 288 Real Food for Fertility | Lily Nichols
4 jun· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Lily Nichols is a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist, Certified Diabetes Educator, researcher, and author with a passion for evidence-based prenatal nutrition. Drawing from the current scientific literature and the wisdom of traditional cultures, her work is known for being research-focused, thorough, and sensible. Her bestselling book, Real Food for Gestational Diabetes (and online course of the same name), presents a revolutionary nutrient-dense, lower carb approach for managing gestational diabetes. Her work has not only helped tens of thousands of women manage their gestational diabetes (most without the need for blood sugar-lowering medication), but has also influenced nutrition policies internationally. Lily’s clinical expertise and extensive background in prenatal nutrition have made her a highly sought after consultant and speaker in the field. Lily’s second book, Real Food for Pregnancy, is an evidence-based look at the gap between conventional prenatal nutrition guidelines and what's optimal for mother and baby. With over 930 citations, this is the most comprehensive text on prenatal nutrition to date. Lily is also creator of the popular blog, www.LilyNicholsRDN.com, which explores a variety of topics related to real food, mindful eating, and pregnancy nutrition. Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) https://lilynicholsrdn.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lilynicholsrdn/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PilatesNutritionist Twitter: https://twitter.com/LilyNicholsRDN Book: https://realfoodforfertility.com/ Takeaways Optimizing health prior to conception is crucial for a healthy pregnancy. Balancing macronutrients, such as carbohydrates and protein, is important for fertility. Including organ meats, like liver, in the diet can provide essential nutrients for fertility. Concerns about toxins in liver are unfounded, as the liver does not store toxins. Vitamin A toxicity is rare and usually associated with synthetic supplements, not whole food sources like liver. Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Lily. Lily (00:01) Thanks for having me. Michelle (00:02) I'm definitely excited to talk to you a lot about your book that just came out, which by the way, congratulations, it looks like it's doing phenomenal as I knew it would. it just has so many great tips and information and research. So, before we get started, I'd love for you to introduce yourself, your background, how you got into this work, and also what inspired you to write the book with Lisa. Lily (00:24) Yeah, sure. So first of all, thank you for the kind words in the book. We're very excited that it's been welcomed with open arms. My work, my professional background is as a registered dietitian nutritionist and also a diabetes educator. And I've really spent the majority of my career working in the women's health space, spanning the whole childbearing years from preconception through pregnancy, postpartum recovery, breastfeeding. Also focusing on certain pregnancy complications, especially gestational diabetes. So that's really what I found working in many different areas in the prenatal space from clinical practice to public policy to training other practitioners to not just like conventional clinical practice, but my own private practice is that. There's often a significant difference between what actually works well for helping to maintain optimal health and healthy pregnancies versus what the guidelines recommend that we do. And so a lot of the whole reason I even started writing books was that it became kind of frustrating to me hearing from clients who, or from other practitioners who were kind of dutifully following the guidelines and their clients were not getting. Michelle (01:16) Mm-hmm. Lily (01:36) good results. And I happen to love reading research and writing about it and having kind of worked through some of these issues myself already in practice, I decided to take to writing about it to get it to a wider audience outside of just my own clinical practice. So yeah, we now have three books. I have Real Food for Gestational Diabetes, my first one, Real Food for Pregnancy and now Real Food for Fertility. And the whole reason that I thought adding this third book to the lineup would be helpful and why Lisa and I decided to do it together is that the whole issue of trying to have a healthy pregnancy, avoid complications, optimize your baby's development and all that, while what you eat during pregnancy certainly does matter, otherwise I wouldn't have written about it and wouldn't advocate for it. Technically, if we really want to optimize outcomes, you want to be looking in advance of the pregnancy. You want to have a healthy lead up to that pregnancy, because a lot of the very sensitive periods of babies' development are in those early weeks. Many of us are aware of the conversation around folate and preventing neural tube defects, for example, and how you want to optimize your intake preconception. I mean, public. Public health only calls out one nutrient, but you can extend that same logic for a number of different nutrients. And if we can optimize health prior to conception, and ideally in both partners, not just mom, but also for dad, then we can optimize the chances of a healthy pregnancy. Part of why I really wanted Lisa on board for this project, I mean, we had been talking about doing this for years. Michelle (03:01) Yeah. Lily (03:13) was with her expertise in the menstrual cycle and hormonal health. I mean, she works with helping couples both conceive and also prevent pregnancy using fertility awareness. It's also an important part of the conversation to get your menstrual cycle in check, which reflects that your hormones are in check and your menstrual cycle is only in a good place when your nutrient status is in check. And if you wanna achieve pregnancy, you could be doing everything perfectly right, but if you're not getting the timing right. Michelle (03:34) Mm-hmm. Lily (03:40) for sex, you're not going to conceive if you're not, you know, doing this in your fertile window. If you're not in your fertile window, pregnancy isn't going to happen, right? So bringing in that conversation around hormones and the menstrual cycle, kind of using your cycle as a reflection of what might be going on health-wise, which can sort of steer you in the direction of areas that need some attention, and also building in the conversation around male health and sperm quality. Michelle (03:41) Mm-hmm. Bye. Lily (04:05) That's really where Lisa shines. So I think we really, you know, brought our heads together to bring you the best of both worlds so we can optimize fertility, optimize your chances of conception, and then also pave the way for a healthier pregnancy ahead. Michelle (04:18) Yeah, I mean, it is very important to definitely start early because obviously the quality that you'll get from the sperm and the egg is going to make a huge difference in the pregnancy. So it is something that like, I remember this is way back when I was getting, when I was trying, and people were talking to me about folic acid at the time, it was folic acid, not folate. That's kind of what they were talking about a lot. And people were saying, you have to do this way before you even start, because obviously it's such an important part, that early section. And you can't just have your body ready with all the nutrients when you give it to the body right at that point. You have to do it ahead of time, because obviously your body needs to process and it has to translate. And I remember you talking about sperm and egg. really like the food being similar for both. And I thought that was really cool because sometimes it seems kind of like this two separate thing, but it really is ultimately like us humans, our bodies need nutrients and those nutrients help reproductive health. And it's nice to know that, you know, it's nice to look at it that way, that it really is like the quality is impacted. similarly for men and women with very similar foods. So I wanted, I mean, I know this is a long range, but if you could just talk about like the basics, the macros, that people should be focusing on when it comes to sperm and egg quality. Lily (05:36) Sure. Yes, there is thankfully a lot of overlap between male and female health, although there are some differences as well. But the kind of take home point is that doing a lot of the same health practices has carry over benefits for both. You don't need to be cooking separate meals for your partner just because, yeah. So Michelle (05:53) Yeah. Lily (05:55) Some of the things that are really key for both male and female fertility are keeping your blood sugar in a healthy range. And so when it comes to carbohydrates, for example, finding a level of carbohydrates that your body can process without experiencing significant hyperglycemia, like high blood sugar after meals, is optimal. A lot of that comes down to the quality of carbohydrates Michelle (06:16) Mm-hmm. Lily (06:18) less processed whole food carbohydrates, you know, your fruits, your vegetables, even a little bit of whole grains or fermented grains like sourdough, beans, legumes, like those sorts of things have much, although they do impact blood sugar levels, they have a much lesser effect on blood sugar levels than if most of your carbohydrates are coming from sugar, white flour, all the refined grains and the processed foods. In the U.S. we're in a situation where 58% of calories on the average American diet are coming from ultra processed foods. And those are usually foods that have a base of some type of refined sugar, like corn syrup, some type of a refined starch, like white flour, low quality, like vegetable oil, seed oils, and then all the other ingredients that you can't even pronounce. that are in there to make this food-like substance actually appeal. And so if we just shift the balance over to whole foods, massive benefits, not just for blood sugar levels, but nutrient intake. Another key one is getting your protein in check. Protein does not raise your blood sugar levels unlike carbohydrates, and so having plenty of protein with every single time you're eating, having some form of protein. whether it's a meal or a snack, can do a lot to help blunt the elevation in blood sugar that we experience naturally from carbohydrate foods. So especially starting your morning with a protein-rich breakfast for both male and female clients is hugely important to setting the stage for healthy blood sugar and insulin levels, healthy cortisol levels, healthy hormone balance for the rest of the day. And then... Since most of our whole food protein sources naturally come with fat. So think like eggs come with the yolk, chicken has skin, steak has fat on it, right? Like nuts and seeds have fat. If we're not taking out the fat out of our whole protein rich foods obsessively, we kind of don't even have to like really worry all that much about the fat conversation. But if you leave the fat intact in the whole food, Michelle (08:11) Yeah. Lily (08:16) Those foods are going to be more satiating. They fill you up, they keep you fuller for longer. They help sustain healthier blood sugar levels, and they have a number of nutrients in them that are important for our health, especially our fat-soluble vitamins. Absolutely vital that you have enough of those for fertility. Michelle (08:30) second. Another thing that I do notice actually with a lot of my patients, and I've seen this more recently, it doesn't always happen, but people skipping breakfast. And I wanna talk about that because I know that there's been a lot of research on intermittent fasting and it was beneficial for men and it was researched really for men. It wasn't researched as much for women. And I just, I also know and heard that like cortisol can rise from skipping breakfast and that can throw off hormones. And I wanted to get your take on that and why it's important really to eat breakfast and have protein rich foods, especially in good healthy fats. Lily (09:04) Yeah. Yeah, we do have a section on intermittent fasting in the book because we're asked about it all the time. So ultimately, yeah, most of the research on intermittent fasting has been done in men. There's been a little bit of work in women and in very specific instances, which I can talk about, it can be a tool that's beneficial. But for the most part, intermittent fasting for women raises some red flags. Primary reason is that our menstrual cycle is very sensitive to disruptions in energy intake. And not just energy intake over the whole day, but like even periods of time within the day where your body senses what we'd refer to as low energy availability. So you're not eating for certain periods of time during the day, long spans of time during the day, particularly in those who are exercising a lot. When your body senses that there's not fuel there, the response is a reduction in your hormone levels. And so we see in women who under eat, and we even have like controlled feeding trials on this where they can measure precisely the level of caloric deficit that results in menstrual cycle disturbances. If your calorie intake dips below about 25%, so you're eating a, quarter less food than you, your body actually needs, you see hormonal changes. Um, and within a couple of months that typically results in an issue with the menstrual cycle. Um, oftentimes it starts with like a short luteal phase or premenstrual spotting or more PMS or something like that. Um, and then ends up with ultimately complete anovulation. You stop ovulating and eventually stop cycling altogether. Um, so. you essentially set up a situation of hypothalamic amenorrhea. So if we're restricting our food intake too low, this is going to happen. When most people do intermittent fasting, they're doing it in a way where they skip a meal. Oftentimes it is breakfast. And what we know from the research on skipping breakfast is these people are not making up the caloric deficit at their other meals. So they still over the course of the day, end up eating less food. you couple that with the sort of mindset that most people go into intermittent fasting with. Most people who are attempting intermittent fasting are doing it with the goal of weight loss. And so there's not really an approach of, oh, I'm just gonna eat all the same amount of food in a shorter eating window. It's like, oh no, I'm going to shorten my eating window and also eat less. So the trials that have shown Michelle (11:27) Bye. Lily (11:29) benefits for intermittent fasting for women. And these are very small studies by the way. So, you know, take it for what it is, but these are in women who have polycystic ovarian syndrome. They were overweight or obese. And so, you know, likely have some insulin resistance going on and may benefit their hormonal profile, may actually benefit from a little bit of weight loss. It can benefit from. reducing levels of insulin resistance. The way they implemented intermittent fasting was they consumed all of their meals between 8 a.m. And 4 p.m. They didn't skip meals and they also didn't do it in a caloric deficit They simply ate their food at an early eating window in the day and in that trial they specifically had them continue to consume the same amount of calories. Now Michelle (12:09) Mm-hmm. Lily (12:16) This resulted in dramatic improvement in their PCOS. You saw improvement in their insulin, their blood sugar levels, their androgens, their just the whole hormonal profile also resulted in weight loss. But these are in women who can benefit from a little bit of weight loss. They're specifically not under eating and they're also not skipping breakfast. Breakfast is a time when your body is actually expecting. Michelle (12:35) Right. Lily (12:38) the most amount of food. Like we have trials for women with PCOS that are not intermittent fasting trials where they test out a same diet, but a different like breakdown of when you're having your calories. So they've done like large breakfast, moderate lunch, small dinner, or the reverse, small breakfast, moderate lunch, large dinner. And when you front load your food with a greater caloric intake at breakfast, tapering down over the day, even when the calories are matched, you see greater improvement. in their metabolic health when you're front loading your food. And so this, essentially this intermittent fasting trial kind of did the same thing. Um, by default, by stopping eating at 4 PM, you are tapering down your, you know, caloric intake fairly early in the day. That may not be realistic or achievable for a lot of people, especially if you're a working person or you have, you know, a family and they're eating dinner at like six o'clock and you're missing out. Right. But just to say there's different ways of achieving the same thing without having to cut off your eating window so early. But the greatest importance and what I've seen the most in practice benefiting my clients' metabolic health, whether or not they're trying to conceive or pregnant or postpartum, well whatever, male or female, is getting a sufficient protein-rich breakfast in. really sets the stage for better regulation of your appetite and hunger and fullness cues throughout the day. Less like mindless eating and overeating and just better nutrient intake as a whole. And I think any of this, any of us can very easily experiment with this, right? Notice how you feel on the days when you skip breakfast. Notice how you feel in the days when you have an imbalanced, super high carb breakfast like bagel or cereal or oatmeal and then notice the difference on the days when you're starting your morning with like eggs or maybe like Greek yogurt or cottage cheese like or leftover dinner that has protein in it some protein rich breakfast and notice how you feel through the morning at Your appetite at lunchtime whether you get an afternoon slump It's pretty easy within a couple days to like feel the difference for this. So Michelle (14:19) Right. Lily (14:41) I always am like trying to bring people back to their own body. Like how do you feel when you do this? Because my experience with clients really across the board is most feel better when they're getting that balanced breakfast in versus skipping it. Michelle (14:56) it's true. I love that you kind of get people to tune in with themselves. Like, how does this feel for you? Because ultimately, I think that that's the best experiment you can feel it from the inside out. You can really experience the feeling that it gives you. And also, Ayurvedic medicine, they always talk about Agni, which comes out, it increases, it's your own digestifier and your own digestifier is very much responsive to nature. and when the sun comes out and during the day. And at breakfast and at lunch, our Agni is the highest because of the way the sun is up. And during that time to take advantage of eating, because that's when our bodies are gonna be able to process and digest food the most. And we should actually taper it down towards the end of the day when the sun goes down, our digestive system goes down, our metabolism slows down, and we're ready. Our bodies are preparing for bed. And so it's very intuitive, you know, what you're saying. Lily (15:48) Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Michelle (15:50) Yeah, let's talk about maybe the phases, the follicular phase and the luteal phase, anything that you can contribute. I'm sure there's just so much. So I'm going to be asking you questions where I'm sure that you can go really into detail and you're not going to be able to. But just to get like more of a general for people short follicular phase. I know that a lot of attention is not really put on that. Most people are focusing on like luteal phase defect. as far as food, is there anything that you think about when it comes to a short follicular Lily (16:18) I mean the follicular phase is naturally going to be shortening over time as women approach menopause. So even starting in the late 30s, you can women just start sort of prepping for ovulation like earlier, like even maybe when they're you know, towards the end of their last cycle. And so some of that may just be an age thing. I will say, under-eating as a whole does tend to shorten the cycle length, and that would probably also carry over into the follicular phase a little bit, although we usually are focusing on the luteal phase defect, where it's getting shorter, you start having other symptoms of low progesterone levels and all of that. So I would say... take a look at your overall caloric intake. Like are you overdoing it with the exercise and then under fueling with food as a whole? We see lower hormone levels in women who are not only under eating but specifically under eating fat. And... Michelle (17:17) Mm-hmm. Lily (17:18) So if that's going on, there's a possibility that your hormone levels across the board, not just progesterone, but also estrogen could be lower. I mean, we have trials where they have specifically assigned women to a low fat diet for the purpose of lowering estrogen levels because we thought maybe that would be, you know, preventative for estrogen driven breast cancers later in life, right? And it works, you put people on a low. diet their estrogen levels plummet as well as their progesterone. So I would take a look at your macro balance are you being too restrictive on fat? Like I said since fat goes hand-in-hand with protein like other than what you're adding separate to food if you're under eating protein you're probably also under eating more likely to be under eating fat as well because they often come packaged together. Addressing the low fat issue may also involve addressing a low protein intake as a whole. And for those who are really like aware of calories from food, you know that fat is a more concentrated source of calories. So oftentimes for people who are calorie counting and dieting, that's the nutrient that they try to eliminate the most. So I would have some awareness on that. You may want to like dial down. the exercise a little bit as well. Typically, when we think of nutrient changes over the cycle, the luteal phase, it's a little bit mixed in the research, but generally, we expect a slight increase in calorie requirements in the luteal phase. It seems to be that the desire for more food and specific cravings are more common in those who have hormonal issues like low progesterone levels, maybe your body's trying to like make up for it, eat a little more so we can keep that hormone production going. But if that egg was not in the best quality because it wasn't, you were undernourished during the follicular phase, you're gonna have that show up in the luteal phase as well, right? So I think it kind of comes full circle, but I would say focusing on nutrient adequacy. Michelle (18:52) Yeah, right. Lily (19:11) would be where I would target it. While also acknowledging the follicular phase is likely just going to get shorter over time, the closer you get to menopause. And that's not necessarily something you have to like super stress about if everything else seems to be okay. Michelle (19:25) Another thing that I actually noticed as you were talking, it's something that I've noticed like maybe once or twice, like that there's a link for me that I've seen with vegan diets impacting a shorter follicular phase. two cases that I'm kind of like thinking in my mind. And I'm wondering if it's because you're not, you're not really getting the animal fat. Lily (19:35) Mmm. Yeah. Michelle (19:45) you're not getting the same kind of protein as you would from animal protein. It's just, and there's a lot of nutrients that you're also not able to really get with a vegan diet. Lily (19:45) and protein. Yes, and that's definitely an area worth mentioning for sure. We have a whole chapter on vegetarian diets that goes into quite a bit of detail. So vegans in particular tend to eat fewer calories, less protein, and less fat than their omnivorous counterparts. And we do see a significantly higher rate of hypothalamic amenorrhea. in vegetarians and vegans, likely for that reason. There also tends to be, it's not always, but there's a higher prevalence of eating disorders among that group. In a way, it kind of gives you like the perfect cover for your eating disorder. Actually, I was just doing an interview with another podcast recently where the host was talking about that being part of her history, that she did use a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet to sort of cover. for the eating disorder. Oh, I can't have any, is it vegan? Oh no, no thanks, right? Like you could just decline food across the board because it doesn't meet whatever standards or restrictions are part of the diet. So that can be another reason where it's like, yes, there are legitimate concerns about nutrient adequacy, but also some people are doing it as a way to restrict their caloric intake as well, which. regardless of which foods are or are not in your diet, a caloric deficit is gonna create problems. But I do see significantly higher rate of cycle issues in vegetarian and vegan clients. And this is not just my practice, not just your practice. This is like per all the documented research as well. Is that a statistically higher rate on average, even if it's not gonna affect every single person who's on such a diet. Michelle (21:27) Yeah, I see it quite a bit. some people really take it like religiously. It's something that they really feel ethically very connected to. So depending on how people feel, and then some people just don't like the taste of meat in which I'll... offer beef liver pills and things like that to get around that. And we talked about Oregon meats actually last time, and I loved our conversation on that. I would love to get your take again on Oregon meats and why Oregon meats are superior really. And they're so nutrient dense and supportive for overall health, fertility health, Lily (21:44) Yeah. Michelle (22:01) We'd love to get your thoughts on that because I thought that was such an interesting topic we spoke about. Lily (22:03) Sure. Yeah, so I mean, cross-culturally, there has often been an emphasis on including certain nutrient-rich foods in the diet prior to conception and during pregnancy, kind of prioritizing them for the child-bearing future parents in the tribe, male or female. And that's kind of for good reason, if you look at the micronutrient content of them. Each organ has different nutrients that are particularly high in this organ versus that organ. Liver tends to be the most nutrient dense. There's a few exceptions for some micronutrients that are higher in like heart or spleen or kidney or some of these other organs. They certainly have their place, even if they're maybe less commonly consumed in our current Western diet. But we see... vastly higher rates of things like higher levels of nutrients like vitamin b12, choline, iron, zinc, vitamin a certainly and liver, and many different minerals in there as well. Both the big ones like iron and zinc and some of the like minerals we need in slightly smaller amounts like selenium and whatnot copper. So Those foods, even when eaten in fairly small quantities, kind of act as like, uh, almost like a way to fortify your diet with extra nutrients. So if anybody has ever done like a cow share, for example, where you're buying the meat from a whole animal, you can also choose to get organs, which I always do, but you get, you know, hundreds of pounds of meat, maybe from a single cow and you get one liver, right? Which might be like, Michelle (23:35) Mm-hmm. Lily (23:36) the biggest liver I've ever gotten was like eight pounds. Must have been a big cow. But like you you're not getting like a huge amount relative to the rest of the meat that you're getting, but by including it in your diet, it doesn't have to be every day. We're talking maybe once a week or once every other week. Having a little bit of organ meats in there really does fortify your diet with a lot of these nutrients that are in lesser quantities in muscle meat. So B12 for example, it's like 200 times more concentrated in organ meats than it is in muscle meats. If you were to calculate out the vitamin A for liver versus muscle meats, it'd be crazy because liver is the by far the richest source of vitamin A in our diets, like bar none. So these nutrients are really vitally important to the processes of ovulation, for the formation of sperm, for the liver and organ meats have cholesterol in them and all of our steroid hormones are built on a backbone of cholesterol. So they're giving us kind of the raw materials necessary for our fertility. So huge fan of including some organ meats every once in a while in your diet. I have to give those qualifiers because sometimes when people hear me talking about organ meats, they think that I'm eating liver like three times a day or something. And I'm like, no, maybe like once a week, but. Michelle (24:49) Yeah. Lily (24:49) having it as part of the diet and it often does need to be specifically something you focus on because many of us do not have the taste for including liver. It's something we have to go out of our way to find because oftentimes it's not at the regular grocery store. Like I talk about it because of its nutrient density but I also have to like you know clarify quantity and frequency of consumption. So for those who do not want to or don't have access to or do not enjoy the flavor of eating liver or organ meats, there are yes, desiccated organ supplements on the market. And yes, I've seen those provide huge benefits for clients who aren't consuming animal foods otherwise. That and also shellfish, like oysters or clams are very nutrient dense. And sometimes I'll have vegan clients who are willing to consume those, but not organ meats, right? So whatever gets it, gets the nutrients down the hatches, you know, whatever works. Michelle (25:40) Yeah, for sure. And so I actually wanted to talk about two common concerns that people have with liver. They think that because it cleans out toxins, that And then also the vitamin A content, because they think about vitamin A toxicity, which is different in food versus just taking vitamin A pills. So I'd love your take on that. Lily (26:01) Yes, so yeah, we'll cover the toxin conversation. People are often very concerned about the toxin levels in liver. If you look at the data we have on like analyzing the levels of toxins and heavy metals and other things in different parts of an animal, the liver is not particularly higher in those contaminants than other parts of the animal. So I always find it kind of weird that people want to zero in on I'm not going to eat that because it might be higher in contaminants when it doesn't even hold true. But be the quantity of liver you're consuming relative to muscle meats. You'd probably be getting more toxins overall from the muscle meats, but also you can find a reason to make any food like evil, right? You can find a reason to avoid anything. We're not gonna eat rice because the arsenic. We're not gonna have Michelle (26:35) Yeah, but also... It's true. Lily (26:49) I don't know, we're not going to have shellfish because it might have cadmium or lead, even though you don't absorb most of what's in there. We're not going to have fish because of mercury, likewise, you don't absorb most of what's in there. If you really want to take it to that level, you are going to find something wrong with every single food. With liver though, it functions more as a... Michelle (27:06) It's true. Lily (27:10) It's somewhat of a filter because it filters your blood, of course. It's not holding on to all the toxins, but it also transforms the toxins. But a lot of what the liver does is there's different stages of detoxification and part of what it does is attach molecules and things to the toxins to make them easier for your body to excrete. and then they're excreted in the bile, or maybe they go through the bloodstream and are excreted through the kidneys, or maybe you sweat and you sweat it out through your skin, or maybe it grows out through your hair, but it's not holding onto the toxins. It's trying to make them less toxic so your body can excrete them through your pathways of detoxification. So I think it's silly to think of the liver as a storehouse of toxins that actually isn't really true. It is a storehouse of nutrients Michelle (27:43) Right. Lily (27:57) process of all the things the liver does, detoxification is just one of many, many functions. Those are highly nutrient dependent activities. So it does hold on to nutrients because you need these nutrients as cofactors for all these different liver enzymes that are actively doing so many jobs to keep you alive. So if anything the liver is a storehouse of nutrients, not toxins. is a storehouse for vitamin A. It really is. It has more vitamin A than any other food and it is also a storehouse for a number of other nutrients as well. Whether the vitamin A and liver is particularly toxic, A, I think we have to be speaking about the quantity. As I said, I'm not recommending people consume massive quantities of liver. I'm talking three to six ounces a week, which provides less vitamin A than the so-called tolerable upper limit. The concerns over toxicity I think are twofold. A lot of people are worried about pregnancy specifically. You have to understand the studies they use to show that an intake of vitamin A was potentially toxic to the fetus was from synthetic supplemental vitamin A. Michelle (29:03) Right. Lily (29:03) So you can measure the metabolites in the blood after consuming vitamin A from different sources and you do not see the spikes in the harmful metabolites of vitamin A to the same degree from whole food sources like liver as you do from isolated synthetic vitamin A supplements. That said, I still don't recommend people consume so much liver that you're exceeding the tolerable upper limit, which again, three to six ounces of liver a week is perfectly fine. There's a caveat, if you're up in the Arctic, don't eat polar bear liver because it is ridiculously concentrated in vitamin A. You can legitimately get toxicity, but you're not getting that level of vitamin A from beef liver, chicken liver, something like that. The case studies we have on vitamin A toxicity, which by the way usually self-resolves anyways, even if it is encountered, but nonetheless. These are in people... Michelle (29:36) Mm-hmm. Right. Lily (29:53) I haven't seen one documented other than there was one case study in small children who were given like four ounces of chicken liver every day. They're infants. That's too much. That's too much liver. So yeah, exactly. I'm like what? But that again in that case study that self-resolved on its own. All the other case studies I've seen Michelle (30:04) Yeah, it's too much. It's like, how do they even eat it? Lily (30:15) Um, we're either there's two I can think of that were polar bear liver. I've never seen one from chicken or beef liver. All the rest of the case studies on vitamin A toxicity are synthetic supplemental vitamin A, and they're usually people taking mega doses, like hundreds of thousands of I use a vitamin A per day daily for years, which if you equate that to liver would be like. Multiple pounds of liver per day, every single day for years, like Michelle (30:37) That's crazy. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Lily (30:39) something that you simply don't see in clinical practice. So I do recommend that people do keep an eye on their total vitamin A intake if they're big fans of liver or if they're doing liver capsules. And particularly if you're also taking like a multivitamin or a prenatal vitamin that has that preformed vitamin A, we don't wanna go crazy overboard. I used to never need to give this caveat, but now that everybody's talking about organ needs and so many people are supplementing, I have had people come in where they're taking like a multi-organ supplement, a liver, desiccated liver supplement, and they're taking like the highest potency prenatal on the market that already has a decent amount of vitamin A. And I'm like, okay, well, we can probably cool it on some of these. Like the risk of overtly something terrible happening is quite slim. Michelle (31:19) Right. Somewhere. Lily (31:25) But I do think we're at a point where I'm like, okay, if you're consuming more than about the equivalent of like six ounces of liver per week, you just, your body simply doesn't need that much. And so if you have a case like that where they're taking in liver in many different forms plus like a high potency multivitamin, or even if they're taking, you know, a separate all that much all on top of it. I still out of an abundance of caution keep my recommended intake below the tolerable upper limit. Even if you know that level it's set very conservatively but again from the most conservative angle I try to keep it under the tolerable upper limit just to be safe. Michelle (32:03) Yes. And then also, yeah, I mean, a lot of this is obviously common sense because like, people aren't going to eat like ridiculous amounts or shouldn't, you know, eat ridiculous amounts of anything. So it's just a matter of really balancing things out. As far as beef versus chicken liver, what are your thoughts on that? Lily (32:20) I mean, both are nutrient dense. There's a handful of things that may be higher in chicken liver off the top of my head without looking at a nutrient analysis. And I'm pretty sure I have a table of this in my article on liver and organ meats on my website. But off the top of my head, chicken liver is higher in folate. It's a little higher in iron. Beef liver is a little higher in... vitamin A, for example. So you'll see slight differences in the nutritional profile. They're both ridiculously nutrient dense. You will certainly have differences in the flavor. So the liver from larger animals has a richer flavor than the liver from smaller animals like chickens. So, and also the texture is different. The liver from beef is a little more tough. versus the liver from chicken tends to be very tender. So if somebody's brand new to consuming liver, I'm probably gonna have them opt for something like chicken liver and maybe try beef liver a little later. Some of it has to do with how you cook it too. If you look at like traditional recipes for cooking liver, it's usually kind of marinated or soaked in something for a while ahead of time that eases the flavor a bit. And then it is... pan-fried at a kind of slightly lower temp and for a short period of time. You're not overcooking it. The longer you cook it, the more that kind of metallic iron flavor comes out and the tougher that it gets. So that's my only caveat there. I think chicken liver is an easier gateway into consuming liver than beef. But you could see what... Michelle (33:36) Bye. Lily (33:50) what you like. You can also do, you mentioned talking about other organ meats. So heart is a very, a much more mild flavor than liver. I mean, liver has a stronger, more metallic kind of flavor. So you can also do heart. Chicken hearts are like a delicacy in many countries and South America, they're often like skewered and grilled over the fire. You can even do like I have a recipe for Thai chili beef heart skewers on my website. Those can be like It's much larger, so it has to be sliced up and everything, but when it's marinated, I mean, it's like a more flavorful steak. Heart is a very lean meat because it's a muscle, so it really has more of a steak kind of texture. You can slow cook it. We have like a beef heart stew recipe in real food for fertility that you could make. So that's an easier one for people to try. Michelle (34:33) Mm-hmm. Lily (34:34) even though the nutritional profile is a little different. Like there's no concerns about the vitamin A and in beef heart, for example, but it's really rich in iron, it's rich in CoQ10, it's rich in zinc, B12, many other things. It's like a slightly more robust, very lean muscle meat kind of a flavor. Michelle (34:39) Bye. of course I could pick your brain for hours because you're just so well fed for information. I really enjoy talking to you. But I know that you have to go. And I would love for you to share with the listeners how they can find you and how they can find food for fertility. And basically, do you work with people online or do you offer any? Lily (35:10) I'm not taking one-on-one clients anymore, but I do have referrals to the practitioners I train via the Institute for prenatal nutrition, many of which also specialize in fertility as well. But yeah, you can find me on my website, lillynicholsrdn.com. As I mentioned, there's, you know, when I refer to articles, those are all on my website. There's no paywall on my website. So just click the blog tab. You can search in the search bar for whatever search terms there are. hundreds of articles up there. So definitely take advantage of that free resource. As for my books, you can find those on my site as well. Just go to the Books tab. Real Food for Fertility has its own website, real You can download the first chapter for free from that site and also check out the book on Amazon. And as far as social media, you can find me at Lily Nichols RDN over on Instagram. That's usually where I am. I'm also on the other platforms. I just don't spend a whole lot of my time on social media as a whole these days. Michelle (36:08) Awesome. Well, Lily, it was such a pleasure talking to you. I love all of the information you shared, and I know that it's going to be so valuable. And you guys got to check out the book. It's amazing, Real Food for Fertility. Thank you so for coming on today. Lily (36:22) Thank you for having me.
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EP 287 How Mindfulness Can Serve You on Your Fertility Journey | Josephine Atluri
28 mai· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Josephine Atluri is an author, certified life coach and an expert in meditation and mindfulness. A graduate of the University of Chicago, Josephine followed her passion for total wellness and has helped thousands of people overcome adversity to find joy. She supports and empowers organizations and individuals through her wellness retreats, classes and written work. Plus, her experience creating her modern day family of seven children via In Vitro fertilization, international adoption and surrogacy inspires her work as a highly sought-after fertility, pregnancy, and parenting mindfulness coach. Josephine hosts a popular podcast, “Responding to Life: Talking Health, Fertility, & Parenthood,” where she interviews guests on their inspiring responses to life’s challenges. Her parenting mindfulness expertise and fertility advocacy work has been featured in the Huffington Post, Motherly, MindBodyGreen, The Bump, Prevention, Well+Good, and Woman’s Day. Josephine is the author of the books, “Mindfulness Journal for Parents” and “5 Minute Mindfulness for Pregnancy.” She also sits on the board of the nonprofit, Shero’s Rise, an organization dedicated to uplifting girls in underserved communities. Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) Website: www.jatluri.com Instagram: @josephineratluri @respondingtolifepodcast Url: https://www.instagram.com/josephineratluri/ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3kIxDHQ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephine-atluri-0aaa32129 Information on Josephine’s retreat can be found here: https://www.jatluri.com/retreat-1 use coupon code LOTUS to get a discount! SummaryJosephine shares her background in fertility mindfulness and meditation and how she got into the work. She discusses her own infertility journey, including failed IVF cycles, the loss of twins, and the decision to pursue international adoption and surrogacy. Josephine explains the concept of mindfulness as awareness coupled with curiosity and compassion. She emphasizes the importance of being present and using breathing techniques as a tool for reducing stress and finding calm. Josephine also talks about her books on mindfulness during pregnancy and parenthood and her retreats for women. Takeaways Fertility mindfulness and meditation can provide coping strategies and overall wellness care for individuals trying to build their families. Mindfulness is a lifestyle that involves being aware of oneself and the world, and it can lead to reduced stress, better sleep, improved immunity, and better relationships. Breathing techniques are a powerful tool for moving from a state of stress to a state of calm, and they can be practiced anywhere and anytime. Mindfulness can help individuals navigate the challenges and anxieties of pregnancy and parenthood, and it can be incorporated into daily life through various modalities. Being present and practicing mindfulness can lead to mental clarity, emotional freedom, and a deeper connection with oneself and the present moment. For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Josephine. Jo (00:02) Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be speaking with you today. Michelle (00:06) Me too, so I'd love for you to start out with giving us your background and how you got into the work that you're doing. Jo (00:13) Yeah, so I am specializing in fertility mindfulness and meditation, and I was working in healthcare upon returning back to work many years ago. And I brought my consulting background with my healthcare background and went into meditation, but I was using it for more corporate wellness. And then I realized that, when I was going through my own infertility journey that I could have really used these tools. And that's when I decided to pivot and really focus on providing mindfulness and overall wellness care for people who are trying to build their modern day families. I remember very well just feeling really stressed out and not having coping strategies. And so that's my... biggest aim with the fertility mindfulness work that I do. Michelle (01:15) And then if you don't mind actually sharing your own journey Jo (01:19) Yeah, no, absolutely. It's actually started, it's like the 20th anniversary of when we first did our IVF cycle, feels like forever ago, which it is. And we knew we had to go straight into that because of healthcare issues, I mean health issues. And we went into it pretty naively because we were in our 20s and I thought that because... of our age that it would happen pretty quickly. And it didn't. We went through a few infertility clinics and it didn't work out. Many failed cycles. We did end up getting pregnant with twins only to lose them at 17 weeks. And that's when we decided to pivot into international adoption. We always had that in our back pocket as another path to parenthood for us. Michelle (02:10) Sorry. Jo (02:18) given our history and so we pivoted there and then we were able to adopt our first son who's now 17. We adopted him from Kazakhstan and that was quite an experience. Then once he was home we decided to give IVF one more try. We switched to a third clinic and we became pregnant again. They threw the kitchen sink at me as the medical term is sometimes used. and I was able to deliver the twin successfully. And through that cycle, we actually were able to freeze a number of embryos and they weren't doing any of the many tests that they are doing these days back then. And so we kept them on ice because of the sort of the traumatic experience from the loss and then having to be on bed rest and all of this. I didn't. think that I could carry again. And so we decided to just sort of keep the embryos on ice until we could figure out what to do. And it wasn't until many years later that we decided to pursue the option of surrogacy. It wasn't an option for us to begin with because of the prohibitive costs. And so we worked with an amazing surrogate and she delivered our second set of twins. Michelle (03:34) Mm -hmm. Jo (03:47) boys, our first ones are boy -girl, and then we had a couple more embryos left and many years later we decided to give them one last chance or go through this process one more time and worked with a different surrogate who was also as equally as amazing and then we had our girl twins, so we have one of each kind. Michelle (04:13) Oh, wow. Jo (04:13) And that's how we created what I call our modern day family of seven kids through adoption, surrogacy, and IVF. Mom's story. Michelle (04:21) Wow, that's such a story. And that's why I wanted to go over it because what's interesting is that it has so many different ways to parenthood in one. You know, there's so many different ways to do it. And a lot of times people are afraid of choosing certain ways. But then ultimately, I always find out when talking to people that they don't regard a thing, everything happened for a reason and that connected with them to their child and however way that came about. Jo (04:30) Yes. Michelle (04:49) So I love hearing stories like that just because I mean, it's amazing, like just human life and the way your path leads you that you don't initially expect it to lead you and then you up having blessings coming in the way that they want to come. Jo (05:07) Exactly. Yes, it's definitely not what we expected, but I totally believe in how things are supposed to just happen that way. It's not to say that it was not a very tough journey and a lot of lessons learned. And I do make a lot of comparisons in articles and things like that about the difference between IBF and adoption and surrogacy. There certainly is a lot of overlap. in many levels to it, but yeah, definitely was a learning experience. And in all of those different paths to parenthood, definitely could have used fertility mindfulness in all of it. Michelle (05:48) Yes. Yeah. So, I'm totally with you because I think what happens is a lot of times when people are going through this or couples are going through this, they're just, they're figuring it out. They're trying to map out and like figure out how to navigate it. So I think that just by itself could be so overwhelming. And then they're looking at the diet, they're looking at the supplements, they're looking at like what kind of other treatments they can do or fertility clinics. And so all the sort of check boxes, but... So often the one thing that is so pivotal and that is often missed is the mindset, like in how people feel and cope with it, because ultimately it's not even about, I mean, a lot of times people will look at the mindset in order to have that as an avenue to help boost fertility. However, all of that aside, it's just so important to take care of yourself at a time that. of so much confusion and so many different thoughts, opinions, and it could be so overwhelming. And that's the time that mindfulness I know as a meditator myself, like just the impact of what it can do to your mind and how it shifted and changed me. And I know that when I speak to other people who meditate, that it can really, it just changes your life in so many ways. It consolidates you. It makes the, it's almost like the static. die down so that you're much more sharp and you're in tune with yourself and your own inner intelligence and it connects you. So I really think that there's so much power in that. And then also, I think often people think of mindfulness as just meditation. However, I'm sure as you know, like, is amazing, but it also teaches you to be mindful in your life actively, like in real time. So I'd love for you to. talk about mindfulness, what it is and how you can really implement it in your life and why a person hearing this should really consider doing that. Jo (07:53) Yeah, no, I mean, I agree totally with everything that you were mentioning. And the way I like to describe mindfulness in just a very simple way is to bring it down to awareness. So it is awareness coupled with a gentle curiosity and compassion to oneself in the process. And so awareness can be anything from being in tune with what's happening to you. mentally, emotionally, physically, the world around you, as well as your interactions with other people. So like you said, you know, it can trickle out into all parts of your life. And in fact, when I describe mindfulness, I call it a lifestyle, not just a one -off thing that you try to squeeze into your day via a meditation for like five minutes or something. If you're able to tune into this awareness of yourself and the world around you, then it can really impact all the different buckets of your life and lead to things like reduced stress and better sleep, improved immunity, and better relationships with your partner, your kids, your coworkers, different things like that, because you're really tuning in. to how you're feeling and when you're able to do that, you're able to respond to life versus being reactionary, which so many of us do. And so that, when you think about all of those benefits, it can really impact your fertility as well, your whole fertility journey as well, as well as way beyond once you... are able to move past that and go into different facets of your life. And so one of the biggest tools that I like to bring mention to people is breathing techniques. And like you mentioned, a lot of times a misconception is that meditation is equivalent to mindfulness and that's it. But there are so many different modalities of mindfulness that can cater to many different types of needs and abilities. and you're not just tied to meditation. I know a lot of people as they're starting out get really discouraged because they think, well, I can't sit for more than two minutes without having thoughts in my mind. And that's another whole misconception is because you're not supposed to really complete your mind, rid your mind of thoughts. It's really just the interaction of those thoughts. But going back to this idea of different modalities of mindfulness, you can do... Michelle (10:28) Yeah. Jo (10:42) different things like journaling, affirmations, you can do walking meditations, eyes open meditations, and the one that I brought up were breathing techniques. And the reason that I love, I bring this up when it comes to fertility meditations is because you can bring it with you on the go. So, you know, whenever you're at the nurse's clinic, getting your blood drawn, or if you're getting a scan, or if you're waiting for your doctor to speak about your next round, different things like that. your breath is always with you and that's why it's a super powerful tool. And it's also powerful because it can move you from a state of stress, a state of fight or flight, into your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest and digest and brings you back to this baseline of calm. And all you really have to do is just start to notice your breath and... make it more intentional by slowing it down. You can count, you can do, you can manipulate your breath in so many different ways. But if you're able to just slow it down and make it more intentional, then you're bringing yourself back into this state of calm. And it's super helpful when you're getting really worked up in any of these infertility appointments that can cause your stress, your cortisol levels to just skyrocket, right? So that's why that's my number one go to. in general, but especially for people who are in the midst of their fertility journey because it's something you can pull out whenever you need. Michelle (12:14) Yeah, and I love that you mentioned that because a lot of my patients will say sometimes they'll go to the doctor's office and they really do have like a legitimate anxiety and they feel it in their body. And it brings them to a state of such anxiety that they go blank. They forget what they wanted to ask, which I always say, just write down the questions beforehand if you can, but they'll go blank on, and sometimes even if... they're not fully on board with what the doctor says. They'll just, they, you know, they won't be able to respond with clarity. When you do get into the breath, it really helps that mental clarity, which I feel like, especially when you're on the fertility journey, you need it more than ever. Jo (12:57) Yes, no, absolutely. That's a great point about, um, about having clarity and asking questions because I can raise my hand to having that experience. I'll have all of these questions, all of these thoughts running through my head and then I'll meet with the doctor or the nurse and they'll say something. And then all of a sudden my mind's in a tangent and I'm not present. And I think about all of the things that maybe that I claim that I did wrong because a lot of us. you know, blame ourselves during this journey at one point or another, or I start to project into the future thinking about like, okay, now here's my calendar, right? We're all tied to this calendar. I'm going to have to do this, this X, Y, Z. And you're just, you're not even there. And you walk out of that appointment, not having answered your questions and not having clarity about your next steps because you just weren't present. And that's the other thing about mindfulness is that when you're aware, when you're in tune with, yourself and your surroundings, that brings you into the present moment. Because you're not thinking about how you were feeling before. You're thinking, okay, I'm tuning in right now. How's my body feeling? How am I feeling emotionally? What kind of mental space am I in? How am I interacting with this person? And that's all in the present moment. And when you take that pause to be able to just take stock of yourself and your situation, you really can have that moment of clarity. But if you're going backwards, you're going forward, you don't have that clarity. You're just everywhere else but the present moment. And so that's another huge benefit of practicing mindfulness, is that you're able to really tune in and be present. And just a side note to this is that you can practice it in meditations, you can practice it in journaling. And the more that you're able to practice even just tiny little moments throughout the day and over time, it's just more about consistency. The better able you're, you can pull towards that like present moment awareness during moments like this with the doctor or the nurse because you've practiced it and you've created that neural pathway in your brain to be able to, to pull into the present moment, right? Because your brain's a muscle and your, your, just like you're exercising it. You're exercising it to be in the moment. So that's the beauty of consistency. It's more about trying to work that muscle every day, work that ability to be present and mindful and aware versus having to like work it out for an hour. If you could do it for a couple minutes a day, it's totally to your benefit in all aspects of your life. Michelle (15:46) And also I'll mention this is being present allows you for mental breaks from everything too, because when you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about the past, you're not being present. And when your mind is constantly on something that is worrisome to you, then again, you're not being in the present moment. When you can train yourself to be in that present moment, you actually allow yourself to come up for air and you're able to just lose yourself in the moment when you're. having a moment of going out or doing something that you could take a break from everything mentally, that's gonna give you more energy when you come back to all of the different challenges that you're facing. And I think that that is so important. It's kind of like filling your tank. it is this level of emotional freedom that does happen. simultaneously when you are present. And I think about a lot of what the ancients always used to refer to as liberation of the self. And liberation of the self is really just like, we are so caught up in identifications, thoughts. This is just the human condition. So this isn't something to be like, we all have this, you know, it's just part of our human condition is that we can get very caught up in our mind movies. And our projections, our fears, most of the fears that we have actually don't really come into fruition. And we have a negative bias, which is really there to protect us from like anything dangerous. And so our mind does tend to go there. And this helps. And they've talked about it throughout history, you know, through centuries, all these ancient teachings about liberation of the self. And liberation of the self simply means is just being able to like fully immersed, be immersed in the present moment, which is the only real moment. It's the only moment that has life force because everything else is an illusion. It's not truly happening in the now and isn't fully alive in this present moment. and I also look at awareness and I think to myself, awareness by itself, this is, uh, I think science needs to catch up to it. And I think that in some ways it, It does. If you think about Qigong or even yoga where you were like really present with your body, there's life force that is inherent in awareness itself. So when you start to focus on areas of your body that feel stuck, you can actually open it. I felt it literally opening in my body as I brought awareness. So it almost like areas that feel stuck are kind of like devoid of consciousness. in our body and ourselves and awareness opens that up because it just awakens you to this aliveness that can only happen in the now. That's the biggest condition about it. Jo (18:39) Yeah, no, absolutely. Great points. Michelle (18:42) definitely fascinating. So talk about like, if somebody is really not familiar with this and really new, and is also like how I used to be, I used to work in the city in New York City, and it was very much in the corporate world. And this is like before I got into meditation. And you almost get so stuck in like the project, the demand, whatever you need to do. you know, I don't really believe in a type A personality. I know that people talk about that a lot. I think that you can wear it, but you could choose to wear whatever you want. You could choose to like, go into the frequency of type B or whatever it is that you want to be. And we get to decide it's the identifications, but. I was at the time identified with a very type A personality. And now I would say, I wouldn't even say B, like I'm more free because of the mindfulness. So for somebody who is not familiar with how to get themselves into that parasympathetic, and they're so used to being in the frequency of do, do, do, and like, let's get things done. Let's run after it, you know, that kind of thing. What's an easy way to... get back in tune with yourself and ease yourself into the present moment. Jo (20:02) Yeah, no, that is a great question. I think that is a function of society, whether you identify with a type A or not. It's just that we're driven to produce and to be busy, and that's a marker of success, especially in the United States. So to try to pivot into this other type of living, this other type of thinking and doing, It has to just be a little bit, it won't be as intuitive, right? So you kind of just have to set yourself up and your environment for success. So it's not really a matter of habits. A lot of research has shown it's more how you set up your environment that will be a indicator of success for yourself. So what I mean by that is, let's say you decide to want to try the meditation. So then you would figure out when in your day is really realistic. And this is kind of the process that I go through with clients. So we do like this mindfulness audit, I call it. And so you'd simply say, okay, well, I'm a morning person or I'm a night person. And I'm not going to try and get you to do something in the morning when you're really not typically productive then. It just doesn't make sense. It's rather than trying to fight what your existing systems are, we're trying to work with it. So if you're a night person, then we would figure out, all right, well then how about we tie it to something, this act of mindfulness that you'll start to practice with something you already consistently do so that way you're stacking it onto a habit that has proven to be very successful for you that you just already do. So for example, that would be, I always bring up the example of brushing your teeth. So if you're already doing that at night, than now just pairing it with the mindfulness activity. So you can choose journaling, doing a gratitude list or practice, doing a mindful stretch like yoga for a few minutes, you can meditate. I mean, as I mentioned, so many different modalities. You just pick one and try it out for maybe try it out for a week and see how it works for you and then try a different one. But the consistency here is that you're doing it always. before or after you brush your teeth for X amount of minutes. And it's more about the practice of doing it. And so being aware in the moment and trying to be very gentle and compassionate to yourself about the experience. So not walking in with these expectations of you need to accomplish X, Y, Z in order for it to be a success. Because if you do that, then you kind of set yourself up for failure because you may or may not meet. those goals and then you get down on yourself and it becomes this negative cycle. Just sort of walking in without any expectations aside from the fact that you're going to be able to, that you will set aside the time, the X minutes to do it and then it's done and that's it. So whatever happens during that, during those minutes is just left for you to really experience in the present moment. That's a huge piece of mindfulness is just having that gentle compassion and that curiosity of like, well, what are the possibilities? Like what can actually happen? I don't know. And we'll see, right? Every day is different. We wake up different every day. I mean, every moment or hour, we have a new experience for ourselves and a new sort of frame of mind that we're operating from. So that's how I, in a nutshell, kind of work with someone or suggest in my articles and books. how they can get started if this isn't something they've ever dabbled in before and it can feel really overwhelming to start a new habit like this, especially if it doesn't feel, if it feels like the opposite of how you normally operate in life. And then I just like to infuse little mantras for myself or just little reminders. And so for this, especially for a type A personality, I would say, I am focused on... being versus doing. And so I don't need to accomplish like a ton of things during this moment. I just need to be here. And so I like little reminders like that, but you know, whatever works for you, especially as you're going through this, you might be aware of things that can give you success. So I would always try and infuse that as well into this new practice. Michelle (24:40) And I love that you said in this moment, because I think that when you give yourself permission, even if it feels very strange for you to be in a different state of mind, if you just tell yourself for this moment, I'm going to give myself permission be present just for this moment, then it doesn't feel as overwhelming. And it doesn't feel like you have to change everything in your life. It's just for this moment to give yourself that mental break. And then your mind eases into that state. And then possibly that state of more ease can start to come into different parts of your life. But I think that is such a good point. You know, just giving yourself that permission and those affirmations or those words can make such a difference. And it sounds so simplistic. And I find that the simplistic things are the most powerful. and the most overlooked for their power. Jo (25:35) Yeah, but also can be the hardest because I think we overcomplicate things and something simple doesn't feel right. It feels I'm missing something here. I'm not doing this properly. And that's where the idea of just being and walking in without so many expectations. Michelle (25:47) Right. unfamiliar. Jo (25:59) and just being curious and compassionate with yourself is that's why those are really big pieces of the definition of mindfulness. Michelle (26:08) sure. And then another thing that I do actually want to talk about is the deterrence that come up in the mind while you're sitting in mindfulness. And so that's kind of the difficult aspect of being still is that you're going to become aware of what's happening in the background of your mind that you typically are not aware of because you're so distracted by the external noise. So that when that does come lot of Buddhists, teachers, they teach that we have these deterrents, we have these, what do they call disturbances that come up in the mind. One of those disturbances, well, one big part is our thoughts and the thoughts that come up. And those thoughts can be meditation is not for me. I personally see that to be a disturbance and it'll stop a lot of people from moving forward. Jo (27:02) that's true. That goes back to that myth of the fact that we're not supposed to have thoughts or disturbances, especially when we're meditating, that our mind should be clear. And that's just not the case because we have between 60 ,000, 80 ,000 thoughts a day. The way I like to kind of describe it to my clients and my books is that it's more about your interaction with your thoughts. because then if you think about it, you'll take that process back out with you into life. So for example, you're sitting for, let's say you're sitting for two minutes in meditation, a thought pops up. Now it's up to you to figure out, well, how am I going to move on from this? How am I going to respond to this? And there are many tricks, I mean, tricks. There are many techniques. like labeling, like, oh, that was a sensation, or oh, that was a criticism, or that was a to -do list. You label it. For some people, labeling makes them feel better, and they're able to move on. Some people are more visual. They have a thought. They need to imagine putting it in a cloud, pushing it away, or putting it on a leaf, on a body of water, pushing it away. Some people just need verbal sort of cues. And so instead of, that visual, they can just tell themselves almost like a mantra. I acknowledge that thought. I will get back to it after this and then return back to their breath. Right? So there are many different ways you kind of need to figure out and try as well, which one works for you. But the idea here is you're having an interaction with a disturbance. And that is what happens to us every minute of our life outside of this. Michelle (28:32) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Jo (28:51) Mindfulness practice right so you're at work You're busy doing what you need to do and a text pops up. There's that disturbance so now now that you've practiced this in your mindfulness habit of How do I deal with something that pops up like a thought or disturbance? Now you're able to practice it in quote -unquote real life because you've done it in your mindfulness practice and so now you kind of can your mind can go back to that moment of Well, I was somewhat calm. I was getting into a calmer state and I recognized it and I said, okay, I'll get back to you later. I'm still doing something and you get back to what you're doing. You take a deep breath. You say that to yourself and you go back to whatever it is you were doing with work. And so that's how mindfulness can really benefit us when we're practicing it into applying it into outside of that moment of practice. into the rest of our lives. And that's why I call mindfulness a lifestyle, because if you're able to practice it there, you're able to do it with all the millions of distractions that we get throughout the day. And so that's why I think it's just so beneficial to have those interactions with the thoughts and I welcome them versus getting worried about having them and telling myself that I'm not good at meditation because in the back of my mind, I'm reminding myself. I'm practicing this for life and this will serve me outside of this moment. Michelle (30:24) I love the techniques that you mentioned because one thing that I noticed is they're all very neutral. So it's just kind of like, oh, that's interesting. A thought, well, I'm planning my day. You know, something that kind of comes and you're labeling it like this is planning. This is that labeling in this is just more like, oh, that's that. And let me go back to the breath. So when you're looking at it neutrally, you're not getting sucked in emotionally. It's not. something that really takes too much of your energy is just observing and seeing. And also when you're neutral, not too attached to that thought. So I love that. Jo (31:03) Yeah, that goes back to that whole facet of mindfulness, of compassion, right? But also curiosity, because you're curious as to, oh, well, why did this pop up in my mind? Okay, clearly my mind wants me to remember this, but I'll be kind to myself. This is not a huge deal. I'll just get back to you. I'll get back to you later. Michelle (31:26) Yeah, totally. And so you mentioned your book. So talk to us about your books and how it can help, because it sounds like you have a lot of this information in your books. Jo (31:38) Yeah, so I have two mindfulness books. One is for when you're already pregnant and infusing mindfulness into your pregnancy. And so it has examples of different mindfulness modalities that you can do throughout the pregnancy. So whether that's yoga, journaling, gratitude practice, meditation, all those different things that you can try. So that way it really sets you up. for your pregnancy and your delivery, but then because you've practiced it during your pregnancy, you can take it with you into your parenthood. And that's actually the second book is a mindfulness journal for parents. I find I first wrote the parenting book and then, and then I realized, you know what? It's hard to incorporate new things when you're in the midst of trying to be a new parent or trying to pick up a new skill when you're already. well into parenthood, it would be so much better if we can introduce this in pregnancy because then you've really worked on these different modalities and you've gotten them under your belt, gotten a taste of them and you can bring it with you hopefully once that fourth trimester sort of is past you and then you're able to use those tools you learned in pregnancy. But yeah, so I try to use those because as in many different parts of our life, we can benefit from tuning in and being aware as we discussed. Michelle (33:10) I will say, in working with a lot of fertility, when people do get pregnant, I feel like that book would really be beneficial because a lot of times people have pregnancy after loss or even pregnancy after the fertility journey could be a really anxious time. So one of the things I really work with a lot of my patients on is mindfulness, especially during that time during the pregnancy, because every test, every scan, Jo (33:26) Yeah. Michelle (33:36) could bring up so much anxiety and just go into the doctor's office. So I think that especially during that time, it could really be so beneficial to learn that. Jo (33:46) Yeah, now that's totally a great point. I did put a page or two referring to that, the trauma that you experience from, if you're coming from a background of infertility, because you're right, every little thing can be a trigger. And now that you're pregnant, it just feels super stressful. I mean, that's how I felt after having experienced that loss and it just wasn't a pleasant. pregnancy for me, which is why I just was honest with myself and said I can't do any more pregnancies. It just took its mental toll on me, but absolutely, you're definitely more triggered by a lot of things that other people may not even think of as something that could trigger you. Michelle (34:26) Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No doubt. So for people listening to this that would like to learn more about you, listen to your podcasts or find your books, how can they reach you? Jo (34:47) Yeah, thank you for that. So my website is J -A -T -L -U -R -I .com and on there you'll find a link to my podcast which is called Responding to Life, Talking Health, Fertility, and Parenthood where I'm gonna have Michelle speaking on as well as links to my books, both books which actually you can purchase on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, wherever. And I also do... retreats just for women in general. It doesn't matter if you're in the infertility process or not. My next one is November 8th through 11th in Palm Springs. And yeah, it's so great. And I did one last year in the same area. And it was really just like this magical and therapeutic moment. It's called rest and renewal because we all need it. And lastly, you can find me on Instagram. Michelle (35:27) That sounds amazing. I love Palm Springs. Yes. Jo (35:44) at Josephine R. Atlery and I share a bunch of mindfulness tips for everyone going through infertility, pregnancy, into parenthood. Michelle (35:55) That's amazing. And actually quickly talk about the they include? Jo (36:00) Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's four days, three nights, and I teach a lot of mindfulness workshops, but then I also bring in other practitioners to do a sound bath. We've done aura readings. I take people to the hot springs. I do a breathwork class, because I also teach breathwork. We do like these wish beads, intention setting. This year we're doing those vision boards. And we're... Last year we did a cacao ceremony. So I throw in a lot of stuff. It is, I want women to feel nurtured because we're just always doing so much for other people that we never take time to just care for ourselves. So I wanted to give women this experience where someone is just caring for them in this really comprehensive way. So it's super. Michelle (36:31) I love that. That sounds so fun. And talk about having a reason to be centered and present. Because I think that when you're away from your normal, definitely like seeing the normal things that it will trigger not being present or your mind will go off into, oh, I have to do this, that, and the other. When you're in environment, you're so accustomed to thinking like that, that when you're in a retreat and getting somewhere where you are in a group, you feel bad looking at your phone. You don't want to. It's part of like, you want to be part of this group and the energy that comes together too. I really believe strongly in that. I go a lot to Joe Dispenza events because you cannot beat the energy of community. There's something in the energy of everybody coming together with that same mindset and with the hopes of growth that is powerful. I think that we work together almost like a neurologically. It's like neuro... were like neurons that fire together like Joe Dispenza says, but it's true. You start to really uplift each other as a whole collective. Jo (37:58) Yeah, so I mean, I think it's that energy that you bring into it and everyone's like minded. So they're bringing that same energy with them of wanting to, um, to level up and, and experience that rest and renewal. So, uh, for your listeners, uh, if they, um, they can get $150 off with the code, uh, Lotus, they just, um, go to my website and they can see the link and all the information for the next retreat. Michelle (38:26) That's awesome. I'll put it in the episode notes. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Josephine. I, we've been following each other on Instagram for ages and I was like, Ooh, I like her. She has like good energy. And I, I just like followed you in general. Jo (38:29) Yeah, perfect. Michelle (38:42) and then I'm like a big, huge family too. And I knew you went through the fertility journey too. So I was always interested in talking to you. So it's really nice to have you on the podcast finally. been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Jo (38:55) Yeah, no, thanks so much for reaching out, Michelle. This is such a great conversation and such a great resource, your podcast for the community, truly. So I'm excited to have you on my own show so you can share your wisdom there as well. Michelle (39:10) Thank
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EP 286 Divine Timing and Signs from Spirit Babies | Nancy Weiss
21 mai· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
On tomorrow’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I speak to my dear friend and intuitive spirit baby medium @nancyweissintuitive Nancy Weiss. Nancy has been drawn to her work from her own fertility journey and her story is absolutely amazing. I absolutely love speaking with Nancy and highly suggest you hear our conversation because it’s packed with wisdom! Be sure to tune in! Nancy Weiss is a Reiki master, psychic medium, hypnosis practitioner and spiritual coach specializing in spirit babies and personal growth. She helps women connect with the souls of their babies before pregnancy and guides them to trusting their intuition and their spiritual connection on their motherhood journey. Her own experience of becoming a first-time mother at the age of 42 via embryo adoption and communicating with her daughter before pregnancy was the catalyst to share this sacred work with others. Nancy shares her incredible journey of finding her babies through embryo adoption and the power of mindset and energetics in the fertility journey. She emphasizes the importance of connecting with spirit babies and fostering a playful and positive mindset. Nancy also discusses the role of divine timing and the signs that spirit babies send to communicate with their future parents. Links: Instagram @nancyweissintuitive "Cawfee with Spirit" Podcast on Youtube: https://bit.ly/3IQoec3 Book Your Spirit Baby Session: https://bit.ly/42Ah2d9 Takeaways: The power of mindset and energetics in the fertility journey Connecting with spirit babies and fostering a playful and positive mindset Trusting in divine timing and the signs that spirit babies send The importance of grounding and reconnecting with the body The Way of Fertility is here! Be sure to check it out here www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. For more information about Michelle, visitwww.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ —------------ Transcript: Michelle (00:01) Welcome back to the podcast Nancy. I'm so happy to have you back. Nancy (00:05) Hey, Michelle, I am so happy to be here too. It's been a long time, and I'm happy to be back talking about my favorite subject. Michelle (00:14) Okay, so we had an initial episode a while back, but I want you to, if it's okay, share your story again. But your story is so freaking amazing, just like how you found your babies and how it was meant to be. And I just love it so much. So I'd love for you to share that. Nancy (00:32) Of course, of course. So, um, it's like trying to remember now. Okay. Um, so we're going back six years, right? Cause my children are now four and six years old. Um, my husband and I got married late later in life. I think we were 40 when we got married. I can't remember anything, my dates. So don't mind me, but we were around 40, um, when we got married and, um, wanted to start a family. Michelle (00:36) Ha ha. Nancy (01:00) And we went through multiple rounds of IVF. It was kind of, you know, I didn't really give myself a chance to get pregnant naturally, which in hindsight I would have, but I spent so many years, you know, at getting older saying, oh, I'm gonna need IVF, I'm gonna need IVF, and that's the route that I took to have my children. So we had about... I had four egg retrievals, five transfers, using our own genetics that did not work. And I just kept my heart and my mind open the whole time of how my babies would come in because my main thing was about being all about mindset and energetics of how would I bring my, how to bring my babies in to having that faith, that hope, that trust. And one day I found out from a nurse, a friend of mine who's a nurse, about embryo adoption, which I had never heard of. And at that point, I think I was a fertility coach for, I think over two years at that point, where I was in this business. I was a spiritual fertility coach, but had not heard of embryo adoption or embryo donation. And as soon as I heard about it, I knew that it was the right thing for us. It was like it just, everything just clicked. And my husband loved the idea too. And if anyone out there doesn't know what that is, embryo adoption, it's when a couple has surplus embryos after having their children, you have a choice of leaving them frozen indefinitely, destroying or discarding them, or donating them to science, or donating them to other couples like me, like us. And we found out about it, we knew it was the right thing, and we went for it. And that is how I had my first daughter, Luna. She was frozen for 13 years at that point before I had my transfer. And then I had my daughter, Ayla, my second daughter, two years after that. And she was frozen for 15 years at that point before I transferred her. So that's how we created our incredible family. Michelle (03:13) Well, tell us a story about you moving to Georgia randomly and how they were there. That's the crazy, crazy part. Nancy (03:16) Oh. Yeah, so I think one of the things is hard, you know, when you're in your, when you're in your fertility journey and you're going through the ups and downs, you're going through the pain, you're going through so many different, you know, upsets and disappointments and highs and lows, it's hard to see the big story because you can't see everything that is being orchestrated. There is, and I always talk about, there's so much being orchestrated in the spirit realm, in the universe to make everything happen. as it should. So my husband and I, you know, we again, we met later and we met later in life. We got married. He was in Ohio for about 12 years, which would be about the same time that those embryos were frozen, which is wild. We met in New Jersey and we stayed there for a little bit. And we then randomly decided to move to Georgia just to get further south because we were like, The houses are less expensive there. Let's just move. We were newly married, having fun. We're like, let's just do it. And I did start my IVF treatment in New Jersey at that point, but we didn't get too far into it. We just had gone through all the testing. And so it wasn't like I needed to stay there. So we just kind of up. We surprised her entire families about moving to Georgia. That's where I started my official like IVF journey, I'll say. And those little girls were there waiting in Georgia for 13 years at that, right? 13 years at that point, getting my numbers a little mixed up. But it's just kind of wild to see that like that's where I needed to get my babies. And I call them my little Georgia peaches. Um, but that's where I needed to be. And if you would have said like, you know, like, why are you moving to Georgia? I couldn't see this, you know, but I know that is like this grand scheme, this beautiful thing that's being orchestrated and how that wound, how that came to be. Michelle (05:20) Wow. That's incredible. It's such an incredible story. And their genetic sisters? Siblings, amazing. It's just insane. And that's, you know, when we talk about the spirit realm and it seems so abstract, but it's actually not as abstract as one would think. Because I talk about it as just an, there's an intelligence, just like the intelligence that Nancy (05:30) They are genetic siblings, yes. Yes, yes. Michelle (05:53) moves animals to do certain things when they know they're sick and they like what it is that causes us to heal our bodies, the same intelligence that works in ourselves, works us as well on a different level of guidance. And all it is, is really intelligence and connecting to that intelligence. And part of that is not shutting down, but like maybe moving away from our analytical mind, because I just feel like also in society and just kind of like how the world is, we really rely very heavily just on the analytical aspect of our mind to the point where if nothing aligns with that and you can't see it and prove it, it's not real. But now what's interesting is that they're actually coming up with some studies that show intuition is real. Nancy (06:41) That's great. Michelle (06:44) that the people do actually see things or respond to pictures before they see the picture with the same frequency or the mind has a certain like expression when it's tested to certain emotions that would be appropriate to those pictures and they would feel that before that. So I want to talk about that first because I think people think it's like, oh, this like abstract thing, but it's, it's really comes down to an intelligence and connecting with that intelligence. So I'd love to get your take on that. Nancy (07:17) I think that's the only point. Yep. So that's the only point. We are all connected. We truly are. Just as I'm able, like, in my sessions, I could work with somebody that's in another country, literally Australia or England or anywhere. these abilities that we have. But you're like, how can I know those things? It's because we have this connection and we are all connected. Not just here in the physical body, but our energetics and then those spirit babies coming in, our past on loved ones. There is nothing there we may be separated in this physical form, but our energetics and spirit know each other and are quiet to tap in to start to tap into those things. Also like that intuition, you know, we make so many decisions sometimes based on fear, where we're just making these decisions on fear instead of letting that natural ability come up of being like, yes, this feels right. And the more that you start to tap in to yourself and that beautiful tapestry of energy, you can then start to make decisions. Michelle (08:31) Mm. Nancy (08:40) out of love, making decisions with this whole body, yes. And I think that's how it was. You know, for me, I think I chose IVF with fear because I was like, I don't see how else anything could happen. And so for me, looking back now, I feel like I chose that with fear, but the embryo adoption was really just based on this love, this knowing inside of, oh my God, like as soon as I heard it, my whole body reacted. And I was like, Michelle (08:42) I love that. Nancy (09:10) Yes, this is a yes, and I knew it was the right thing. And women, especially on the fertility journey, have turned off that natural, because that natural kind of intuition, that natural connection, because so much is fear, so much is like waiting and scared and wanting things to work. And of course we want it to work, but we then get out of our body. We then get away from that natural. that beautiful energy that's around us and within us to make those choices, to make those different choices. That makes sense. Michelle (09:46) Yeah, it totally makes sense. I mean, really trusting your body. I always, I compare it to like, are you willing to bet on yourself and your body and the intelligence that runs it? And really, are you willing to bet on your knowing, you know, that knowing that intelligence that you have within you, that voice that has always guided you and we've had those glimpses where we did listen or we... heard it and then we didn't listen. And then we remember hearing it and not listening. And those are the ones that we remember the most, but really, truly just trusting that, allowing ourselves to come. Nancy (10:17) Yeah, and that, yes, and the, you know, kind of going like the body believes what you tell it. If you say I'm old, if you say I'm sick, if you say I can't do this, I can't do that, your body listens to you, you know, and if we go back to grade school, and I don't know if anybody did this, but in grade school they would have an experiment where they had two plants, and one plant you would speak to it nicely and say beautiful things. And then the other plant, you cursed at it, you said these terrible things. Well, what do you know? The plant that was spoken nice to grew beautifully. And the plant that was spoke to negatively did not do as well or die. And our body is the same exact thing, telling ourselves, we got this, we can do this. I am fertile, I can carry a baby to term. And all of these things, even if in the beginning it's a little bit of fake it till you make it. Michelle (11:17) Mm-hmm. Nancy (11:17) Your body doesn't know the difference between you telling it 100% truth, you know what I mean? Or you're kind of faking it and you're just kind of going along with it. And that is a huge thing on this, you know, in anything that you do. I don't know if the listeners know, but also I, in the last few years, I had stage three breast cancer. And I treated that cancer just like I did my fertility journey. I'm not going to say that I wasn't scared and that it was hard, but I went through chemotherapy, radiation, a double mastectomy. I did all this. I realized today, you know, before coming on the podcast, I said, my goodness, in the last five years, right, six years, I had two babies and went through stage three breast cancer. Now, what did I do when I was going through my cancer journey was the mindset. It was huge to talk to my body and not say anything was wrong with it. not to be fighting against it, but that I was just going through this little upset within my body. And everything that I did became a healing. I would twist it into a healing. And the medicine, the chemotherapy I got was how can I make this positive? You know, I would see it as medicine or light coming in from the angels. And so I just, on my fertility journey and all through that, about that, with that, is always about the mindset. And how can I continue to feed my brain and my body the positive messages to help me form that faith to get me to the next step. Michelle (12:51) Honestly, you are such an inspiration because you walk the talk. Like, it's not something that you just talk about. It's something that you actually experience and you experience something that is so devastating. It's a really, I mean, like there's no words. And so something like that and to actually, in the face of that, still... stay with love towards your body is incredible. And this is just one of the few reasons I love you so much. And it's such an incredible, and it was actually interesting because I was going to ask you to talk about that. And it really is just a testament to the power of our belief in our intention and the way we speak to our bodies and how our bodies do in fact respond to our vibration. Nancy (13:46) Yeah, it's so powerful. And I don't think everybody always realizes how powerful those words are, how powerful that mindset is, the intention. Like I said, you can go into anything with a positive mindset or a negative mindset. Now, it doesn't mean that it's always going to work out in your favor, right? Like, I have a client that had a failed transfer recently, and that's hard. but it's all the little things that she's doing that are going to lead to that success, that lead to the long-term mindset and success. So you're gonna have your ups and downs. Don't think I wasn't on the floor crying at some points in the last six years on my journey, whatever I was going through, but it was the consistency and all the things that I did for myself of the next day, back to meditating, back to doing inner child work. Michelle (14:26) Yeah. Yeah, imagine. Nancy (14:42) back to doing energy healing, whatever I could do for myself and using all those tools for yourself and then trusting my body, trusting myself that I was making the right decisions and doing the right thing. So and I think it takes time. I don't, you know, I don't expect everyone to just be like, okay, yeah, just all of a sudden it's going to happen. It's going to I'm going to be like this tomorrow. This is incremental changes. This is incremental work that you do for yourself, your self care. and all the things that you do on your journey. Michelle (15:14) It's really mothering yourself. It's becoming a mother to yourself and loving and nurturing yourself. So, you know, that's not an easy thing in general. Like, you know, the fertility journey, the motherhood journey, the whole journey, it's not an easy thing. Like, as you know, I mean, it comes with its own challenges, it all does. So mothering yourself, it's the same thing. It's kind of sticking by your side, by your own side, no matter what. And staying... Nancy (15:17) Oh yeah. Michelle (15:43) strong, supportive to yourself and that self-care and having those breakdowns and accepting yourself and giving yourself those that grace. And I love that you mentioned that because that's part of the journey. It's part of it. We're not perfect. Nobody's perfect. And that's the point. It's like just honoring and accepting yourself where you're at, but from a place of love. Nancy (16:02) Yeah, yeah. And sometimes one of my coaches told me, she's like, you need to sit in the river of misery sometimes. You need to let that flow through you. A lot of us who are maybe type A or those really strong professional, not gonna say professional, but these women that are like me, I'm like Capricorn. I just think about the goals. I think about the next step. And sometimes I won't always, in the past I have not always... recognize that I have to go through sadness, that I have to go through pain in order to really heal through it, you know, instead of just going on to the next thing and like powering through. You need to kind of really experience the emotions in your body and I think this is a big thing when it comes to fertility or any type of things that can cause trauma is that we leave our body because we don't want to feel what we're going through. we can gloss over the emotions because it is so painful. But in that, it gets trapped within us, you know, and that gets us further and further away from our intuition and our gut and knowing what is right for us, what is wrong for us. And so it's a big healing journey. I think those of us, you know, I say that around the fertility journey, we're on a very specific journey for a reason. And it's all about really this self acknowledgement, this self growth, this transformation. of how we go through all these ups and downs. And it's no joke, it's not for the weak, right? But let me tell you, you become the strongest woman. You become so strong going through all these things, right? And really knowing yourself and knowing your body and your baby, I think it's just like, it's just such a big, it's almost inexplicable, but this giant web of all these things that come together and connect, you know? But I think it's really important to get back into the body so that you can process emotion, so that you can get in touch with yourself and your energy to then connect with your baby and connect with your mindset to bring them in. Michelle (18:15) I love that. And so how does one, if people are really disconnected with their bodies or it's really difficult for them to kind of like face or experience the emotion, how would you recommend for people to do that in a way that's like practical? Nancy (18:33) So I think one major thing would be to ground yourself. And if you've ever heard of grounding before, this is connecting with the earth. This is, you can imagine yourself for me, I love picturing myself as a tree. It's something I do every day and actually feel those roots going down into the ground, into mother earth, being held, being feeling safe, feeling secure. I think that it sounds so simple. It sounds so maybe magical to people like how is me picturing myself like a tree going to help? But remember this is all about energetics. This is about intention. And when you do that you're telling the body what to do. So getting back into your body, feeling grounded, breathing, literally breathing and taking deep breaths, putting your hands on your heart and breathing and feeling your heart, your chest rise and fall. Grounding yourself. starts to get you back into your body so that you can start to hear and listen to the signs, the sounds, the messages that come from within, whether it's physical, emotional, energetic. But breathing and grounding is one easy way to just start to reconnect with your body and yourself. Michelle (19:52) Oh my god, I love that. It's interesting to me because the simplest things are the most powerful, typically. Nancy (20:01) Yeah, and you again, you're just like, how could that be? How could that be the thing? You know what I mean? How could it be as simple as breathing? But once you start doing that, once you start developing a practice, like maybe five minutes a day, you know, you sit down, I think this is important too for women is to develop a self-care practice. And self-care is not pedicures and manicures, even though those are amazing, but self-care is really sitting down and looking at yourself saying, What do I need to heal? What is it that I need to heal? You know, is it forgiving someone? Is it forgiving myself? Is it for processing some trauma? Is it for loving my inner child? You know, maybe I need to go out and hula hoop today and reconnect with that little girl inside of me. Maybe I need to just sit down and meditate. Maybe I need to write a letter to someone that piss me off and I need to let them go. Maybe I need to set better boundaries for myself and not let people walk all over me. There are so many things that you can do to really foster that self care and that connection with yourself. Me, that's every morning. I sit down in front of my altar. I'm pulling behind me in front of my altar in my space. I listen to some beautiful music. I choose something on YouTube and I close my eyes and I sit there and I breathe. I ground. I connect with my angels and guides. I do my gratitude every day. Something as simple as that, five, 10 minutes, can completely change your life. I've seen it change mine. It transformed my fertility journey. It transformed my cancer journey 100% because I was able to put myself first and make myself the priority. Michelle (21:54) I love that. And it's true. It's really choosing yourself, choosing yourself throughout the day, giving yourself that presence, like being present with yourself. When you're doing that, you're able to access a higher intelligence. And that is where you get those downloads and really connect with your intuition. So speaking of that, let's talk spirit babies, one of my favorite topics ever. And it's really wild because I always tell my patients, listen and talk. Nancy (22:17) Yeah. Michelle (22:23) Talk to your spirit babies, but also ask for signs and it's insane. I can write a book just on that. The stories they tell me, they are blown away by some of the signs they see. And all it takes is just asking. So talk to us about spirit babies, how they come in, how that can influence people's initial feeling or being called to parenting in the first place. Nancy (22:47) Yeah, so spirit babies are the souls, the spirit of children that are ready to come in at Earthside, to come into a human body. Just like we have loved ones in spirit that have passed away, babies are out there too. They're going through their reincarnations, they're going through other lives, and they are ready and choosing a parent to come through. And one of the things to do is to calling on a spirit baby if you've never done this before, is to say like, hey, my body is ready, spirit baby, I'm ready for you and start to call in that child. And when they see you, you're like a little light and they're like a little moth to a flame and they're like, oh my goodness, yes, her, I love her. And I love who she is with. And I want that to be the way I come in, through that mom or however it is. This could be adoption too. So I don't always say like spirit, but we're talking about spirit babies, we're talking about babies that are coming in freshly into that new body, that human form. This greatly changes a fertility journey because you are starting to connect on that deeper level with the child that is meant to be yours. And it sounds maybe crazy to some people, but connecting with that baby, fosters this trust, this hope, this faith that they're coming. You know that they're coming and the more that you work on that, the more positive you feel, the more connected you feel knowing like yes I know this baby is coming. And so this is one of the great ways to really help on the fertility journey is connecting with those spirit babies. And I forgot what else you asked me so let me know. Michelle (24:43) I think I forgot too, because my memory these days, I don't even know, but who cares? It just will keep moving forward. But I think that it's just so interesting that you're saying this. I mean, the way I see it is that it's actually, a lot of times there's that initial thought, okay, I'm going to get pregnant or we are going to get pregnant. But then there's like this other element to this, which is this other being that's... Nancy (24:46) Yeah, I feel it. Yeah, yes. Michelle (25:09) part of this process and acknowledging that being, I think that the power of acknowledging that being is incredibly potent. Nancy (25:18) Yeah, we are making just like we chose to come into this lifetime through our parents, choosing all the things that we have, our financial situation, our sibling situation, what color are we, what nationality, what religion, we choose all these things. And so these babies that are coming in are doing the exact same thing. They're looking for the lessons, they're looking for who they need to be with. Do they need somebody that's extra? loving or fun or wacky or silly or serious or whatever that is to come into this earth so that they can then be on their own path in having their lives. And it's just like a grandmother can send you a cardinal or a butterfly and say, oh my God, Aunt Rose or Grandma Rose, she used to always send me butterflies. I know it's her or a cardinal. Spirit babies can do the same thing. and you can ask them to send you specific signs. And the more you connect, you can start to hear, feel, see, know exactly who they are. They're all gonna be a little bit different. Our communication is gonna be different, just like it was different for my first child versus my second. But to have them send me their name, for them to send me these things that just pop up, you start to just get that. beautiful connection knowing they are real. Just like women know like oh I just knew it was a boy, oh I just knew it was a girl. That's that mother's intuition and it can get deeper even deeper than that like with spirit baby work. It's incredible. Michelle (26:46) Mm-hmm. That's so cool. Do you have any interesting stories on what you've seen, just stories from your clients on connecting or asking for signs? Nancy (27:04) Yeah. Yeah, well, even one of my own, one of my favorite is the cake plate for the baby shower. And now she was, I was pregnant with her at this time, but I started connecting with Luna six months even before I knew how I would get pregnant. This was, we had, you know, I was kind of in limbo at that point. I didn't know if I was gonna try our genetics again with another egg retrieval and go through that again. I don't even think I knew about embryo adoption yet. Um, but here I am, you know, we would talk. I knew her middle name was Grace. She literally yelled it to me one time in a meditation session. So every day I would sit there. I would connect with her. I would use crystals. And she was like, my middle name is Grace. And I'm like, are you for real? Okay. Are you sure? Like, I was like, I don't know if this really goes well, Luna Grace Weiss, but all right, girl, this is going to be your middle name. And so, um, I was doing my shopping for my baby shower, and I wasn't a pink girl, I was a gray and purple. I wanted all her stuff to be gray and purple, and I'm looking at home goods, and I'm looking for this cake, a cake plate, a display for the cake. So I'm going through the aisles, I go through all the aisles of the cakes, cake plates, there's nothing there. There's, you know, pink ones or red ones, whatever. So I kind of give up at this point. And I'm like, all right, I guess I'm not finding this cake plate today. I'm going through the store. I'm like looking in the lamps or something really weird, like lamps or something completely non-related to baking. And all of a sudden I see a cream colored plate and it's got this ceramic plate and it's got this gray ribbon tied through it with polka dots, which I'm like, why does this cake plate have this gray ribbon? I'm like, that's exactly what I want. you know, for the purple cake, and then I lift it up and a sticker in the middle of the cake plate says grace on it. And I'm like, what? I like flipped out in the store. I was like, are you kidding me? She literally sent that to me. We have a cake plate with the gray ribbon and then the name, the middle name in the middle of it. And what are the odds of this, right? So you're just like, you just have to like. Michelle (29:09) Oh my god. Wow. Oh, yeah. Nancy (29:30) except these things too. People will be like, oh how do I know it's not imagination or coincidence? It's not. These things, there are no coincidences. Everything is synchronistic and is happening for a reason. You can't tell me that baby didn't send me that plate, right? Or my other client, right, my other client, she had her child send pine cones and pine cones, I mean, Michelle (29:45) Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. The signs are too obvious. Nancy (29:58) know they're in certain places right? You could she asked for pine cones and um they would pop up in interesting places like she would find one she'd be like oh my goodness but like here she shows up to a beach wedding and a beach wedding you would think like she's seashells uh something like that and the individual ornaments things on the table were pine cones and she was like I know Michelle (29:59) So she asked, she asked for that specific sign. Yeah. Right. Yep. Nancy (30:27) There's just like, once you start developing this relationship with them and yourself and with spirit, it's just a beautiful thing because the impossible becomes possible. Michelle (30:43) I love that. I love that. That's so cool. Because it's magic. It's really connecting with a state of miracles. Because I think that ultimately, and I haven't fully, fully read this, but the book of miracles, it was at the book of miracles. Is that what it's called? The book of, I think it's the book of miracles. It's the one that Marianne Williamson wrote about. You know what I'm Nancy (31:00) I'm not sure. Okay, yes, A Course in Miracles, A Course in Miracles. Michelle (31:11) A course in miracles, right. Okay. So a course in miracles, they say that basically miracles happen all the time that we, that is really our birthright. But we're the ones who sort of hold ourselves from that. I think part of it is not acknowledging the realness of it. When we don't acknowledge that it exists, it hides. And then when we acknowledge and make that relationship, make that connection, it shows up a lot more. And so. Nancy (31:36) Yeah. Michelle (31:39) What are some of the reasons that you've seen that spirit babies are hesitant on coming through, like being born? Nancy (31:48) I think one of the big things that is a big message that I've seen over the last, I think it's eight years now that I'm doing this. I'm so bad with my ears. They want to know that mom wants to play. And that sounds very simple. You'd be like, of course babies wanna play, kids wanna play, but they see so much seriousness. They see so much of this stress. that they just want to know like, I really want mom to be playful and fun. And it doesn't come through all the time, but I've seen it come through where that's like a concern of theirs. And when we are going through so much stress, right, we're going through all this stuff, we can kind of tend to just shut down and we need to reconnect with the playfulness inside of us. We need to reconnect with our inner child. And so I'll tell my clients, go out hula hoop. Go out and blow bubbles. Go to the park and run around. Lay down in the grass and just do some grass angels. Go in the snow. Do something that's really fun and lively that you would have done like a kid to really get that, to show them like, yes, I can have fun. Yes, I'm ready to welcome you. I think that's a huge one. And I think it has to do a lot with us, the women. in showing that we can be that way. You know, that it's not just, yeah, the kid just want like kids love to play. They want that connection. playing is a huge part. I'm trying to think of what else. I think babies really have their own, they have their own agenda. This is not our time. This is not when we choose to get pregnant. This is for them saying, yes, I'm ready, the time is now. And so trusting in that divine timing, while it is so hard on your fertility journey, especially if you're getting older and you're like, oh my God, I'm 40, I'm this, I'm that, I need this to happen right now. It's really on their timeline and we need to remember that. We need to remember divine timing and these universal, these beautiful miracles that occur exactly when they need to. Sometimes a child needs to wait for, let's say, another sibling to be born or they need to wait for a specific time or a specific season when mom moves from the city to the country. Different things like that really do affect our children. Or who is the dad? Or where is this other, you know, the other part coming from? There are so many things that babies kind of look at and say like, okay, this is not the right time. I need to wait until this time, or I need to wait until this other sibling comes through, or mom does this or Michelle (34:53) so if somebody wants to connect with a spare baby, and this is really foreign to the person or somebody's listening, and what is one of the first ways they can ease into this or have that connection, what are some tips that you could provide? Nancy (35:11) I think one of the things is. not letting the imagination get in the way thinking I'm dreaming this or this is not real but sitting there say five minutes a day closing your eyes putting your hands on your heart and picturing this child picturing a baby picturing what they might look like you know kind of giving them maybe a face giving them what they look like maybe you see you're holding them in your arms this is all part manifesting too This is making these dreams become a reality. So starting to connect with them, or if that's a little bit too much for somebody, to maybe write a letter to the baby and tell them about you, say, I'm so excited, I cannot wait for you to come Earth side. I have the perfect room picked out for you. I would love to tell you your name. And just starting this conversation, just as if you would pray to God, if that's what you believe in, or praying to a loved one. or talking to someone in spirit, just kind of starting that conversation. And the more you do that, it's like a muscle. And then they start to connect back with you. It may not happen that first day. It may not happen the first month, but as you continue to develop this relationship, it really starts to flourish. Michelle (36:36) Amazing. And it's true. It's actually, I feel like more intuitive than people think, that you almost have a remembrance to it. And I feel like our cells remember what we're capable of doing, like our potential when it awakens, it's really something that is dormant. And when you bring that into your world or your perception, that it awakens more so than it's a new foreign thing. Nancy (37:04) Yes, yes. I mean, it's going to be different for everybody, you know, depending on your level of intuitiveness. Some women are very intuitive, some people are just learning about it. So there are going to be like these building blocks and these kind of steps that need to be taken in order to start to really foster that relationship. And again, every relationship with a spirit baby is going to be different. Some are you're just going to feel them. So maybe when you're in meditation and you say, baby, I want to meet you. I would love to meet you. Please let me know that you're here. And then all of a sudden you feel the hair on the back of your neck stand up, or maybe you get goosebumps on your arms. You can look at that as that sign of, yes, they are here. I'm getting that response. And so trusting, again, this is about getting into the body, back into our bodies, so that we can trust the emotions, the visions. the knowing and all those things that come up and we can trust those things. Michelle (38:01) I love that. And of course I can talk to you for hours, but if somebody is really intrigued by what you're talking about and really wants to reach out, which I know is going to be a lot of somebody's, how can people reach you? Nancy (38:05) I'm going to go to bed. Hehehe So Instagram is the best place to find me. I'm at Nancy Weiss Intuitive, and I know Michelle's gonna put that information down here. So we have that. So there's lots of stuff on my Instagram that you can watch. And then I have something called the Coffee with Spirit podcast, in case you don't know, I'm from New York. So I have a little podcast called Coffee with, yes, gotta have coffee. Coffee with Spirit on YouTube is a podcast. Michelle (38:34) Gotta have the coffee. Nancy (38:41) where I talk about spirit babies, spirit stuff in general, so you can learn there how to connect with your spirit baby. And then I offer sessions as well, where I do spirit baby mediumship sessions and energy healing to help you connect with them, where I can connect you with your spirit baby and also teach you how to do it as well. Michelle (39:00) Nancy, I adore you. Like seriously, I adore you. We go way back, like way back. We go way back. New York, we're both from New York and we have the New York connection. And I just think that you're incredibly so unique in your approach to life and you have such a light about you and incredible positivity. And I think part of it is just this belief that you have this real faith. Nancy (39:02) No. Hahaha! Michelle (39:29) in miracles and like the ability to do anything in life. And I think that you just teach so much just by your presence and how you live as a human. So of course, I love having conversations with you and I'm so happy you came back to Spirit Babies and talking about it and the podcast and thank you so much. Nancy (39:41) Thank you. Stay tuned. Thank you.
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EP 285 The Power of Whole Foods for Fertility | Judy Simon & Angela Thyer
14 mai· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
Dr. Angela Thyer and Judy Simon discuss their book 'Getting to Baby' and the importance of nutrition and lifestyle in fertility. They share their backgrounds and how they came together to help women improve their nutrition and health for better fertility outcomes. The book covers the connection between food and fertility, the importance of whole foods, debunking misconceptions about diet and fertility, and the benefits of intuitive eating and cooking. They emphasize the need for diversity in food choices and the impact of processed foods on fertility. The book also includes practical tips and recipes to support a healthy pregnancy journey. The conversation covers topics such as the importance of breakfast and meal timing, the impact of nutrition on fertility, the role of integrative medicine in fertility treatment, and the power of lifestyle choices in influencing fertility outcomes. The guests emphasize the importance of combining foods and the role of vegetables in supporting digestion and overall health. They also discuss the impact of stress, sleep, and epigenetics on fertility. The conversation highlights the need for a multidisciplinary approach to fertility treatment and the importance of finding a supportive healthcare team. Takeaways Nutrition and lifestyle play a crucial role in fertility and improving fertility outcomes. Eating whole foods, including a variety of fruits, vegetables, plant-based proteins, and whole grains, is important for fertility. There are many misconceptions about diet and fertility, such as the need to cut out carbs or follow specific diets. It's important to focus on nourishing the body with whole foods. Intuitive eating and cooking skills are valuable in creating a healthy and sustainable approach to nutrition. Diversity in food choices is essential for optimal fertility and overall health. Processed foods can negatively impact fertility, and it's important to prioritize whole foods. The book provides practical tips, recipes, and a six-week blueprint to support a healthy pregnancy journey. Breakfast is an important meal for fertility and overall health. It is best to have a substantial breakfast with protein, fiber, and vegetables. Meal timing is crucial, and it is recommended to have more calories earlier in the day and fewer at night. Combining foods, especially vegetables, can support digestion and nutrient absorption. Stress, sleep, and lifestyle choices have a significant impact on fertility outcomes. Epigenetics plays a role in fertility, and lifestyle choices can influence gene expression. A multidisciplinary approach to fertility treatment, including integrative medicine, can provide comprehensive support. Finding a supportive healthcare team is essential for navigating the fertility journey. Guest Bio: Judy Simon Judy Simon, MS, RDN, CD, CHES is an award winning registered dietitian nutritionist who specializes in reproductive health. She is the founder of Mind Body Nutrition, PLLC and a clinical instructor at the University of Washington. Judy’s expertise includes fertility, PCOS, eating disorders, weight inclusive medicine and reproductive health. Judy has held leadership roles in the American Society of Reproductive Medicine Nutrition Special Interest Group and is a Fellow of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. Judy integrates mindfulness, intuitive eating, eating competence, while taking a non-judgmental, inclusive down approach to help people have healthier, more fertile lives. Judy is the co-founder of Food For Fertility program and co-author of the upcoming (April, 2024) book Getting to Baby A Food-first Fertility Plan to Improve Your Odds and Shorten Your Time to Pregnancy, Ben Bella Publisher Guest Bio: Angela Thyer Angela Thyer, MD is board certified in Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility, Ob/Gyn and Lifestyle Medicine. She is a founding partner of Seattle Reproductive Medicine. Dr. Thyer completed her undergraduate education at Duke University, medical school at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, residency at Oregon Health and Science University, and fellowship at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. She completed The Culinary Coaching program through the Institute of Lifestyle Medicine in 2020 and became a certified plant-based chef through Rouxbe in 2022. She and Judy Simon, MS, RDN created the Food for Fertility program and have co-authored a book coming out in 2024, Getting to Baby: A Food-First Fertility Plan to Improve Your Odds and Shorten Your Time to Pregnancy which highlights the best foods to optimize fertility. Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) Instagram: @angelathyermd Website: angelathyermd.com For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle: So Angela and Judy, welcome. Angela: Thank you so much. We're excited to be here, Michelle. Michelle: So I'd love for you guys to give a background first. , I'm very excited to be talking about your new book, Getting to Baby. I would love for you first to share your background so people can know more about you and what got you to doing this type of work. Angela: Okay. Sure. I'm a reproductive endocrinologist and infertility specialist. So first I trained in OBGYN and then specialized in reproductive endocrine and infertility. And then I got board certified in lifestyle medicine. So, which is a more holistic kind of way to look at all healthcare, more of a preventive lens of like, how can we look at lifestyle measures to, you know, really help people in all phases of their life. Angela: And I've always been interested in food, nutrition, exercise. And so over the years, it just became a bigger and[00:01:00] bigger part of my practice. And I've always been interested in obviously hormones, but metabolism and Judy and I started working together at the university of Washington. And we found we had this common interest in really helping women, you know, work together to improve their nutrition and health, which subsequently leads to improvement in their fertility. Michelle: Oh, totally. Judy: And I'm a registered dietitian, as Angela mentioned, and my master's is in community health education. And I sort of went through traditional training, and when I came back and re entered, you know, medicine, gosh, about 20 ish years ago, all of a sudden, PCOS and all these things that I had never really learned about just came front and forward. Judy: And so I was fortunate to connect up with Angela and really do the deep dive into, Hey, what do we know about insulin resistance? How is this affecting fertility? And these were things that traditionally I hadn't been taught. [00:02:00]So really, I think we kind of joined each other's worlds. You know, I joined American Society of Reproductive Medicine and, you know, joined all the fertility docs. Judy: And You know, Angela would come to the nutrition conferences. So we did a lot of cross pollination and from that we went off and both started into private practices and she'd refer these amazing patients and we decided, wow, we're seeing them one at a time. Wouldn't it just be the coolest thing if we could start classes? Judy: So about 12 ish years ago, we started the food for fertility classes where we brought women in who were trying to conceive. Many of them had PCOS, endometriosis. unexplained, lots of different diagnosis. And that's who we brought the food and the people and the lifestyle into the classroom, which is really why we wrote the book. Judy: It's kind of, we took all our years of experience, science and knowledge and said, let's make it accessible to more people. Michelle: That's awesome. And so [00:03:00] talk about the book. What's in the book? And obviously it's for people trying to conceive, getting to baby. What were the top things? Angela: Yeah. Well, we, we started off by, you know, kind of, we always want people to understand the whys, you know, why this, why that what's the connection, what's the underlying biology and physiology? And then what evidence do we know? A lot of nutritional studies about fertility or observational studies, like they'll a population will be observed and they'll say, okay, people who ate these kinds of diets or these kinds of foods had higher fertility and more successful outcomes than people who ate this kind of diet. Angela: So, you know, we, we want to, wanted to present all that information. So people kind of have background and good knowledge and can kind of say, oh, okay, well. Maybe that would be a good idea for me. You know, it's not, it's, it's a broad spectrum of what, you know, a good diet could look like. It's not just one thing. Angela: Obviously [00:04:00] mainly plant forward. Cause I think we all need to eat more fruits and vegetables and plant based foods. But there is room, you know, for some animal foods too, especially things like fish and whole fat dairy, which have shown to increase some fertility benefits. So, you know, we kind of go through all the food groups and talk about what's, what we, where we have evidence, what's good, what's not so good and what vitamins and minerals and nutrients they're adding. Angela: And then, you know, some of the biggest things that we're like, if you want to incorporate this, it's a really, it's a how to. Right. So we wanted to make it like accessible in this sense that anybody at home could be like, Oh, okay. I, gosh, I just want to add one little thing this week. What would I add? What can, what's my takeaway? Angela: What's my smart goal? So people can kind of set their own goals and try to move forward with that, making a little progress at a time. And then the greatest thing I think is sharing stories from our patients who are just fabulous[00:05:00] women who've been on their own journey. And we had so many stories, we couldn't even share them all in the book. Angela: But kind of telling these journeys that sometimes took months, sometimes took years and how they were able to incorporate changes and see changes in themselves. and feel increased energy and then kind of have improved fertility. Maybe if they had a partner, you know, their partner's health was also improving at the same time. Angela: And so many of them were successful either With natural conception, or if they were infertility treatments, having better success in those treatments and making better quality embryos that we were like, wow, you know, that's really what's in the book. So as much as we could share and keep it accessible and reasonable in length. Angela: That's, that's what the book's about. Michelle: I found it very user friendly and I really enjoyed the image of the plate and how half of it was greens, which is great because I do believe that it's so important to get the greens. And there's so many nutrients that you can get[00:06:00] from that. And you talked about some misconceptions too, like on treating PCOS and like common misconceptions on what to eat for fertility. Michelle: So I'd love to touch upon that. Judy: Yeah, well, one of the things that we tried to bring out in the book is when we first started doing our classes, a lot of the reasons women would be referred to us as we'll just go lose weight. So nothing, you know, focusing on their health and we're like, Oh no, no, no, this is not a weight loss class. Judy: This is totally about how to nourish yourself. And actually. Take away the shame and guilt in, you know, whatever size body you have being able to get the benefits of the nutrition and the lifestyle. Right? So, for example there's a lot of people that would come in with a whole list of foods that they thought they shouldn't eat because somebody told them that. Judy: And we're like, well, are you allergic to them? No. Well, okay, you know, here's a safe And that's what we tried to do in the [00:07:00] book. Like showing in all these different, you know, sure, maybe you can't tolerate dairy. Here's a sub, here's something else you can, you can place out so that everybody would feel included, that anybody could be in the classes, read the book and really get the benefit out of it. Judy: So when, when you talk about myths, probably the biggest one is, you know so many women are told cut out carbs. Cut out carbs and we're like, Oh no. Well, what's in whole grains and ancient grains. We know those inositols we hear about in PCOS. Guess where they come from? White beans, buckwheat. So we're saying where can you get these ancient grains are just so filled with minerals and also really showing that looking at the quality of carbs that you're choosing most of the time is actually going to be beneficial. Judy: And this is kind of relief for women to hear like, I don't have to starve myself. I get to eat and try new things. Michelle: Yeah. That's such a good point. And also, cause a [00:08:00] lot of times when people have carbs, it's simple carbs or juices where you're taking basically, even if it's fresh juices, like we're really meant to have the whole fruit, right? The fiber like, and digest it slowly so that it's not a sugar spike. I'd love for you to talk about that too, the importance of, of actually having the whole food. Angela: Yeah, we definitely talk about kind of it being a whole food diet because that is so important and The issue with I mean, yes, you can get some of the nutrients if you juice But you're also gonna get mainly sugar without the fiber if you've removed the fiber. So the fiber is so important both to slow down your digestion and really pay attention to gut health. Angela: And I know you focus a lot on gut health. You know, that's where so much of our health overall starts. And there's so many connections between the gut and the mind and the body and the hormones and everything else, every, every system. And so, having that [00:09:00] fiber in your diet, really from whole foods. I mean, especially plant based foods, right? Angela: Because animal foods don't have fiber, but the plant based foods really then is is great food for the microbiomes, the microbiome, our microbiome and the bacteria, the 3 trillion bacteria that live in our gut. And it helps create, you know, it's more anti inflammatory because so many people kind of can get. Angela: almost a chronic inflammation from not eating enough fiber, not feeding their microbiome. And then that can lead to more issues in more body systems that they may not even be aware of. But nobody is, you know, advertising whole foods, like whole foods. So much of what people see and kind of the noise that feeds in is just, you know, everything else that's marketed in a box or a bag or somebody. Angela: And so that's what, and so sometimes those help people put health claims on other products that [00:10:00] aren't whole foods and then whole foods kind of get neglected. And so, yeah, we definitely want to say, you know, it's important. And we talk about eating the rainbow and the colors because each colors, providing different phytonutrients. Angela: And so, you know, you want that broad range because the more diversity you have in your fruits and vegetables, the more diverse a microbiome you're going to develop, the better protection for your immune system and just make everything else work better in your whole body. Michelle: I love that you talk about diversity because actually a lot of people end up developing sensitivities even if it's healthy food that they eat all the time and it's important to have diversity because it really allows the body to get so many different benefits and also not get too intolerant of one specific thing. Michelle: The body likes diversity. Judy: Absolutely. And we really wanted people to feel inclusive with the book. So that's why there's so much [00:11:00]culinary medicine, like just basic skills. Here's how you can throw something together without even a recipe, you know, just really, you know, five steps to a great salad. What should it have, you know, different things like that. Judy: And we also wanted it to really highlight the, All the global cuisines. And so for example I see a large population of South Asian women, right? And so there's, there, there always were like their diets too high in carbs. And we talked about what are all the wonderful things that herbs that you're using, the dolls, you know, the pulses, but we tried to make sure we had things from all regions because unfortunately a lot of people here in the medical world, like, Oh, just eat the Mediterranean diet. Judy: We're like, Oh no, no, no way. That that's so exclusive. It's not inclusive. We want to talk about, you know, foods from, you know, West Africa or Central America, a lot of the indigenous healthy foods, and then also what's seasonally available. And so one of the things that we really tried to [00:12:00]share is a lot of different types of foods. Judy: Simple preparation, but let people start where they're comfortable. So if you're a chef that only has three or four recipes and you're still sort of using some are processed foods, maybe they'll start with adding a soup or adding some vegetable dishes or adding a salad and letting them know you're going to get benefits from those first steps. Judy: Because some people feel like, like I just talked to someone, she goes, I'm trying to be all in, you know, trying to be perfect. Do you know what I mean? Michelle: Yeah, Judy: And that's stressful. It's stressful to feel like you're getting a grade on your diet. And we want people to feel like it's fun. They're having a date night with their partner and maybe they're trying a new recipe in the book. Judy: Or they got inspired because there is a lot of pressure when people are trying to conceive. And the book is also for those people who are like, Hey, we want to get pregnant in the next year. What's the path to a healthy pregnancy? We have no idea how long it's going to take, but [00:13:00] what's going to prepare us? Judy: And you know, Michelle, that like 50 percent of pregnancies are unplanned. So a lot of people, you know, maybe they're exposed to a lot of those fertility disruptors, and if they would have known even a few months in advance, they could have decreased some of the risks, you know that could impact their fertility and pregnancy. Michelle: definitely. I remember seeing something, it was about a burger or like a chicken sandwich or something. It was a sandwich with a bun that the woman just kept in her closet and just saw what happened and it was not, it was not good. Breaking down and I'm like, whoa That is crazy. Like things are supposed to break down if they don't break down and they don't yeah Just break down like what happens in your body So talk about the importance of eating whole foods. Michelle: Listen, we're going to have processed food once in a while. It's not like, you know, end all be all like, it's not one thing or another, obviously, [00:14:00] but talk about the importance of really being intentional about choosing more whole foods in your diet. Angela: Well, you know, I do think, I think that everybody's so different in what they eat, but I think that, yeah, the ultra processed foods and processed grains, so like breads, cereals, pastas, Anything it's just so it it's everywhere, right? It's it's you can't get away from it and it's become normalized And it and so it has become acceptable and ordinary And the problem with those foods is yeah, you don't need to say i'm not never going to eat that again But it replaces it, you know, it takes the place of whole foods. Angela: And so I think you know Where do you get whole foods? Well, it's hard to get whole foods You You know if you're eating If you're buying foods at convenience stores or fast food restaurants or even regular restaurants Sometimes i'm surprised that menus don't have Kind of like more vegetables available when we talk about the fertility plate[00:15:00] and the whole plate being half Vegetables, right? Angela: You're not going to get that in a restaurant, like the restaurant usually. So, you know, we, we have talked to women, we didn't really talk about this that much in the book, but like, I think some of the women gave us examples of, you know, planning when you go to a restaurant, gosh, what can I eat from this menu that would be more of a whole food, what are the, sometimes the side vegetables are something they'll order from some of those things to say like, yeah, I don't need to necessarily go for the most. Indulgent luxurious meal. I want to go for the whole foods cause I know that's what my body needs. So we talk about being intuitive eater or competent eater. It, you know, I don't think this is taught well in schools. So, you know, to, to be honest, nobody, it's nobody's fault. Like where you are, it's a growth opportunity for everybody to be like, Hey, I didn't really get this education growing up. Angela: My parents worked. I didn't, you know, I didn't cook that much growing up, but now I'm an adult. And I need to really learn about [00:16:00] nutrition and what my body needs and how to heal myself through food. And what that might mean is I need to cook more. And if I don't know how to cook more with whole foods, You know, there's opportunities to learn. Angela: There's so much now available on YouTube, or that's both good and not so good, but you know, you can find the good, the good things and learn to cook with whole foods and buy things like our book, which are trying to teach people almost some intuitive cooking skills. Cause you don't always want to be cooking from a recipe. Angela: You want to get some basic staples and some comfort in the kitchen and some things you really are good at, and then always build new and add new. Okay. But yeah, so that was like one of the tenants of our philosophy of how we taught was, let's talk about, you know, building a meal. Let's talk about what vegetables are going to be in the meal, what protein is going to be in the meal. Angela: And for us, that was mainly going to be a [00:17:00] plant based protein. So either beans, lentils. tofu or tempeh or edamame, so a soy based protein, or fish, since all of those have been shown to increase fertility. And then whole grains, those ancient grains, so not processed and kind of putting that all together and nuts and seeds and other things that provide those denser nutrients. Angela: And really starting with like cutting things up, like, okay, let's prep everything. Let's do the mise en place. Let's get everything ready. Let's plan meals. So you're going to have leftovers. because it takes work and effort. You don't want to put all that effort in and then only eat once. So you want to have some leftover meals that you can repurpose throughout the week or free some of these meals that you're going to be able to then thaw out next week or next month when you're more time pressed, and you know, you've got your own freezer meal that you've prepared that you're going to be able to thaw out and cook and have a nutritious, delicious, quick meal, right? Angela: So it's just a, I think it's a mindset, right? [00:18:00] It's a different way to think. And, and everybody can get there and just build that knowledge and build those skills. And that's exciting. Michelle: It is exciting. I find that whenever you're learning something new, like you, you make it more complicated in your mind. You're like, oh, I have to do this whole thing. But you don't realize, like as you learn it, you could really strategize and make it so much easier and cheaper. You could save money that way. Judy: Absolutely. Michelle, you bring up a really good point. And what's really fun is a lot of the women who've taken classes or patients of ours, like even after like two years after they have their baby, I'll get an email. You know, I saved all those recipes from class and I still love the, you know, the quinoa mango black bean salad. Judy: It's so delicious in the summer. I take it to parties or one patient just wrote me about the soca bread made out of chickpeas that they start to add them to their repertoire or you want to increase their self efficacy, their confidence and their competency. And then when they do eat out, you know, maybe [00:19:00] they do broaden and they, you know, they go for an Indian meal or an Asian meal and they know like, Hey, I'm going to order one whole vegetarian. Judy: So I get more broccoli and veggies like they know how to order and feel good. When they go out or they travel, you know, how can I take that and keep it better? And, you know, just really, you know, giving them that support. And so in the book, for some people, this is really new. We kind of do like a six week blueprint, but we also say like, If you feel pretty good on some of the skills and you've checked the box, awesome. Judy: Work on some of those things that you, you want to build up stronger in your repertoire. And if you feel like you need more time, I remember when our class switched to virtual and we started to go to every other week, the women were like, this is kind of good because I have more time to work on my goals. Judy: I kind of like that other, remember the every other week model? You could do that with a six week plan. Maybe I'm going to try to do this over twelve weeks, you know, three months, give myself some time to To try new things.[00:20:00] And the thing is you're getting the benefit with every step you take. There's a benefit, you know? Judy: And so the cool thing for us is sometimes at the end of the class, women who didn't eat in the morning, they like. You know, we started eating in the morning because of class and the food was really good. They started regulating their cycles, Michelle. It was amazing. And one of our last live classes before COVID, I remember one table of four, they were all kind of waiting to get their cycles and things and getting ready for IVF. Judy: And they all went on to conceive. They all got their cycles and went on to conceive. And that was just, the cost of food and, you know, putting a little bit of time in so that lifestyle does make a difference whether someone's going for art treatment or they're, you know, they're, you know, they're just maximizing their fertility options. Michelle: Yeah, there was actually a study on girls in college that skipped breakfast and how it impacted their cycles I thought that was interesting[00:21:00] Judy: I would guess negatively. I'm thinking if Michelle: Negatively, yes negatively. Yeah. Yeah, Judy: You know, I just want to check. Michelle: They most of them started regular and it they became irregular. Judy: You know, and people are getting into a lot of fads where they're really time boxing their food. I just talked to someone in a smaller body and she says, I'm trying to eat clean. So I only eat between this time and this time. I go, Michelle: Mm hmm Judy: you should eat when you're hungry. Your body needs nourishment all day, not just eight hours. Judy: So sometimes we see people that are going to overboard. And they're restricting, and then their reproductive axis is not getting the nutrients it needs. And I'm like, that's not what you want to do for ag health. That's not what you want to do for reproductive health. If you feel cold at night and you're, and, and you know, and as we know with, you know, acupuncture and Chinese medicine, energy is such an important concept. Judy: So if you're freezing all of a sudden, and you're starving [00:22:00] yourself, you're not nourishing your body. Michelle: Absolutely. And actually in Ayurvedic medicine, they say that when the sun is out, that is when, because we, you know, we, we respond to the elements. And when the sun is out, especially like around 12 PM, you should have your largest meal because it increases your own digestive fire because we get influenced by nature. Michelle: And actually the morning you should have breakfast, you should have food during the day when the digestive fire is. Increase the most and when you shouldn't is as it gets darker like a couple hours before you go to sleep That's when you can give your body a break. So it kind of According to Ayurveda, it's a little bit more flipped than what's typically done where people skip breakfast. Angela: Right. And, and, you know, that, that exactly parallels some of the metabolic studies, right? So what Ayurvedic medicine is known for so long, right? And then Western medicine has to come and prove it that like our digestion is[00:23:00] better in the morning and the way glucose and, and. nutrients are processed in the morning is better when we have more energy and we're more active throughout the day. Angela: And then at night, things are winding down and slowing down and you want your body to relax for sleep and not be digesting a big meal. And, and we do talk about that, but it is really hard for people to flip to try and get more calories and earlier in the day when fewer at night when the typical pattern is, is the opposite. Michelle: and it's going to give them a lot more productivity and energy to have a good breakfast because you know, protein, you got those good fiber and vegetables and berries and, really start your day right. Judy: We encourage people if they're really set in a way, we're like, we'll do it as an experiment. Be curious. Try it on the weekend. Maybe try it on the weekend because you don't want to change your flow. See how your energy feels, especially when people are telling us they're fatigued. Judy: They're like, I'm so tired. And it's [00:24:00] like, and most of their energy intake is at night. They wake up not hungry. You know, we do try, you know, try to flip that around and that's part of that intuitive eating and eating competence and see where your body, because really people know a lot about their body and so we want them to be in tune to that too and trust that. Angela: And I was just going to add that, you know, sometimes people have these ideas of what a typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner is and what food should be part of those meals. And we say, Hey, that does not have to be the case either. I love a breakfast salad. I love eating my leftover dinner from the night before for breakfast. Angela: If I've made something delicious, I made this great stir fry and I've had a little bit because it's late, but I'm like, I want to have that for breakfast. I'm going to have a big bowl, you know, so I love having those other things early in the day because I do feel like it gives me great energy. And then the other thing that we talk about is, you know, the[00:25:00] walking after meals and especially getting outside early in the morning and getting that sunlight to really Start your day and, and get your clock going and how important those rhythms can be to recognize that you have, your body has a rhythm, sleep consistency is important, exercise and movement throughout the day is important, all these other things that we want to build in, you know, to our base for overall wellness to support fertility. Michelle: Yeah. I love it. I love it that you're a doctor and you're interested in this because unfortunately it's not as common. Like people don't know about all of these things about really connecting with nature and the nutrition aspect of it. So it's amazing. It's so well rounded because you have like so many different backgrounds and perspectives on Judy: We, we, we, yeah, we try to bring it all together and that's why this book would have been much longer if our publisher didn't say stop, you know, it was like twice as long. You'll see when you're writing your book, you want to share everything. And so we did include [00:26:00] two chapters on like boosters and disruptors, you know, talking about stress and sleep. Judy: And then also some of the disruptors like, you know, alcohol, cannabis, endocrine disruptors, because we didn't want to scare people, but we felt they needed to know. And you know, science based, evidence based, but we did put it at the end. You know, we really focus on the food and feeding yourself because really that's what our program is all about. Judy: But we find that when they put it all together and they get to those boosters and they add the movement and the stress and so many of our patients, patients who do acupuncture will say, well, that's one of the ways I always say, what do you get out of it? Cause I always want to know. And they go, Oh man, I'm such a good place to do. Judy: I leave in my stress level is so much better. I go, then that's something you want to include in, in, in what you're doing for your health. If you have the privilege and you have the accessibility to it. So we, we try to make everything accessible. Because there's so [00:27:00] many women and men who don't have access to medical care when it comes to fertility. Judy: It's really the underprivileged do not have access or such limited access that we thought if we could at least cover the main things and it could be, you know, available in libraries or, you know, things like that and audio books that that would be a way that more people could really have that information. Michelle: Well, it's great information. And also, I love that it talks about. combining foods, in Chinese medicine, we have a lot of formulas of herbs. So each herbal formula has different herbs and they work together as a symphony. And a lot of times they'll include ginger or digestive herbs to help assimilate. Michelle: So working together, And a certain symphony is what makes it that much more beneficial for the body. And I like how you talk about the importance of combining foods. You were talking about putting [00:28:00] vegetables because if you just eat meat without vegetables, it's not going to be able to simulate as well and digest as well without those vegetables helping in that fiber. Angela: Right. The vegetables are actually pretty protective, right? So I mean, there, you know, there have been studies that look at people who eat just more of an all meat diet and then people who eat more of a vegetable based diet, but with meat and the gut is healthier, right? If you incorporate those vegetables the, the, because the fiber from the vegetables is so protective. Angela: That then you are able to digest the, the meat and make use of the nutrients in the meat as well. So I think that's, that's great advice. And I think that, you know, out here we're in Seattle. And so we have a lot of, you know, we have a number of people who are trained in acupuncture. They are, you know, trained in traditional Chinese medicine. Angela: And we have always basically said, you know, gosh, I don't know that area, [00:29:00] but I trust. The practitioners in my area who knows so much this has been around for so long that let's, you know, combine and talk about the best of all worlds and support everybody's health. And then the same with fertility clinics, like some people really are going to need that extra step of a traditional IVF clinic. Angela: They might need insemination. They might need IVF. And then all these other things are going to be supportive and enhance their success because it's so expensive. And the last thing you want to have to do is multiple cycles. And so the more efficient you can make each cycle by bringing your best self forward into the process and taking the time, like a lot of people, you know, want to kind of take a lot of time to get to a fertility clinic. Angela: And then once they get there, they want IVF yesterday. Like they want to be pregnant yesterday. So And it's still really about the time and the investment in, [00:30:00] you know, producing optimum health for you and your partner. And so that, you know, it might take a good three months, right? Of preparation to say, let's make sure when you do IVF, if you need IVF and you're going to do it, that everything's perfect. Angela: As great as you can make it going into the cycle instead of just like, Oh, there's an opening next week. Let's get started. You know Michelle: I wish all reproductive endocrinologists spoke like you Angela: Oh, yeah. Thank Judy: she, and she, and she walks the walk, you know, for all the patients we've had together. A lot of times after that initial consult, she'd be like, okay, I want you to do, you know, food for fertility and work on nutrition and lifestyle for three months. You know, let's see, you know, what we can do with some of these biomarkers that are, that are elevated in a very positive way. Judy: And then quite often during that three months, a woman starts cycling. I always, I remember saying to Angela once years ago, I go, What if you put the [00:31:00] fertility clinics out of business? I mean, we were kidding, you know, when I said that they have the role. So please don't think I'm saying that, but you know, we did. Judy: And she's like, great. She was like, wonderful. Let's help people on the easiest journey. Let's not, you know, when someone gets sent to me and they've already had three failed IVFs. for whatever reason. And they're like, okay, I want to work on my nutrition. I'm so happy to work with them, but I feel really bad because they're pretty wounded because they've been pretty disappointed and let down. Judy: And sometimes it was something obvious that nobody ever brought up, you know, their eating disorder, their PCOS, that things could have been optimized first. So I think that's where we all work together. So I feel like that's why when you work in integrative planning, You know, practices. We, we work with, you know, fertility yoga instructors that we really trust and, and, and, and D's and dietitians and, and, you know, we know which clinics are going to be weight shaming, you know, we want to know [00:32:00] where can our patients put the best team together, where can they get support groups from resolve or other organizations so that they feel as fully supported as they go on this journey, because a lot of people, Never expected this. Judy: They just, I went through unexplained infertility for years. Never thought that was in the bags for me, but it was like. You know, you feel helpless. So having a community, and I think when we all work together interdisciplinary, you know, and we know the best people to send our patients to, or best organizations, or how to check, we really help them. Judy: We really, we really can help. So we're excited about you, you know, your future book. Yes. I mean, you know, I was just coming first, but yeah, looking for resources is so important, Michelle. Angela: And I, right. And I think, you know, those resources are great. And then also if somebody is seeing somebody and it's not clicking. You know, it could be it could be their doctor. It could be their [00:33:00] dietitian. It could be whatever They you don't have to stay with the same person. You can actually go get another opinion you might You know, click better and work better with someone else who Has different information even it's not all the same. Angela: So each of us don't necessarily provide the same information or You know, it's an art and a science and I think we all feel that that we connect with people It's so important, but we all connect differently And and as an individual each person should really You Make the most of that and, and really make that work for them. Angela: They're the ones they're invested in it. Michelle: That is so true. Absolutely true. I've seen people who have been going for years to one reproductive endocrinologist and then when they changed different approach, different energy, just like, and it was a different outcome, Angela: Yep. Michelle: you know, it happens. Judy: And if you make a change, [00:34:00] no one's mad at you. We all want the same end result. I always tell them all the clinics in this town, they're all friends. They all know each other, you know, professionally, they all know each other. They're going to send your charts. Judy: They're not going to hold them back. You know, everybody does want a positive outcome, you know, to take place. Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean you know, not always the case, , but when it is, it's amazing, and it's true you really do have to find that alignment and I always say, you know, it takes a village and creating a team of different people that can support you in different ways. Michelle: When going through this, but of course nutrition is so important in Chinese Judy: We all eat. Michelle: Yeah, we all eat and we eat for a reason a good reason, right? Angela: Mm hmm. Michelle: And the spleen and stomach are actually the center and they're like the mother in a sense, you know the nurturer Aspect of our bodies and that is really where everything else gets built they [00:35:00] talk about pre heaven chi pre heaven energy in the kidneys And of course the kidneys are really important But sustenance, the energy with which we can sustain and increase after our genetics is food, Angela: Right. And I think, you know, that's just kind of being understood. I mean, I think in science, Yeah. We now are recognizing, you know, there's genetics, and then there's epigenetics, which is how the genes are expressed and the epigenetics is how we influence which genes are expressed. And that has to do with our nutrition, our stress. Angela: Our sleep, our movement, our community, our mental disposition, our mental health, our optimism. All these things have a huge impact in our health by the epigenetics. And I think people sometimes think it's just genetics and things are. A predetermined and it's going to be one way and it's totally [00:36:00] not. You have so much influence as a, as an individual about what path your life can take and how your health is affected by these decisions you make every day. Michelle: which is so empowering, I think, to know that you actually can have a hand in your Angela: Mm hmm. Judy: , I was just thinking we almost wanted to add a whole another chapter on epigenetics, but we had to pull it back. So we just kind of sprinkled it in, you know, the lifestyle things. But even when we work with people who are using donor eggs, their health will have an impact on these epigenetics. So that really empowering that mom, you are the full mom, you know, even with a donor egg, what you eat, your life, your health. Judy: Is going to have an impact on your baby. And I think that really helps people to know that Michelle: That is such a good point. It's really true because it's, it's all important. It's all parts of the [00:37:00] whole. That's where you do have control right over your lifestyle. And these some of these decisions because you don't always have control over your fertility. I mean, certain aspects are just out of your control, and you do feel that helplessness. Angela: And so I think where you can feel good and feel empowered is, you know, these are the actions I can take. These are the steps I can take. I am making progress. I am growing as a person. I'm helping myself. I'm helping my community. Whatever the case may be, I try to recommend not kind of losing yourself in just trying to get pregnant. Angela: Really recognize your, yourself as a whole person and all the things you are providing to, to your community through purpose and service and love and, and everything you're doing is just, it's key to who you are and it brings you strength and peace. And that's just really [00:38:00] Great to know and you, those are decisions you can make. Angela: That's not something out of your control. Michelle: That's so important. And thank you for bringing that up and you guys, I could talk to you guys for hours cause you know what, you know what I love? Well, first of all, your knowledge, you guys are very knowledgeable about what you're talking about, but the passion , and the compassion. With which you are operating Michelle: I think we both have one major thing in common is that we love this community and it's a beautiful community to serve. And so for people who want to find you or read your book, how can they find you? Judy: Well, the book is available at all major books, booksellers and many of the independent ones request it getting to baby book.com. It will be released April 9th. So I'm not sure when this is released, but April 9th will be released. It can be pre-ordered. You can follow me at Fertile Nutrition or on my website, mindbody nutrition.com [00:39:00] and Angela. Angela: And you can also request the book from your library. So libraries don't automatically stock books, but if individuals make a request to a library, the library can order the book. So that's something to know as well. And then I'm at AngelaThiremd. com or at AngelaThiremd on Instagram. Michelle: Awesome. It was such a pleasure meeting the two of you. You guys are so nice and so knowledgeable and just really lovely to talk to. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Angela: Thank you, Michelle. Judy: Michelle. Thanks, Michelle. Angela: to you as well.
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EP 284 Defying the Odds: An Incredible Fertility Story of Hope | Alana McGlashan
7 mai· The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
On tomorrow’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Alana McGlashan of @thenurturedwomban_ shares her personal fertility challenge story and experience with Asherman's syndrome. She discusses the complications she faced after a miscarriage and the diagnosis of severe Asherman's syndrome. Alana shares her journey of healing and preparing her body for conception, as well as her experiences with pregnancy and loss. She emphasizes the importance of connecting with the heart and womb, and the power of self-trust in the healing process. I was deeply moved by her story of hope and how she found strength to listen deeply to her soul’s calling and knowing that she was meant to have her children. Be sure to tune in! Description: Alana experienced miscarriage, Ashermans Syndrome & infertility on her journey to conceive. Navigating Asherman's Syndrome was one of the hardest times of her life as she was told due to the severity she may not be able to have children. Sending her on a healing journey that although may have taken 2 years, she now has 2 children later. The medicine she found on her journey she now shares with women in her 1:1 energetic womb explorations, helping women to rewrite the story they have been told on their own fertility journey & setting the foundations for profound healing. You can find her on Instagram @thenurturedwomban_ For more information about Michelle, visitwww.michelleoravitz.com Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free. The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: [00:00:00] Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, Alana. Alana: Hi, how are you going? Michelle: Good. So I'd love for you to share your story. I know that it's been a very personal fertility challenge story and definitely defied the odds from what you were told. And I love stories of hope. So I'm very excited to have you on and share your story and your experience with Asherman's syndrome, which I think a lot of people aren't really aware or may not even be aware that they actually have. Alana: Yeah, absolutely. And at the time, you know, I had no idea what it was and it was something I was searching for in the hopes to hear hope, because I was just hearing a lot of stats and a lot of Let's say stories that I didn't, I didn't want to hear at the time. So I felt pregnant and lost that little baby at 10 weeks. Alana: And I was a scientist working in Sydney, which is from [00:01:00] where I live, two hours travel away. And I went to the early early pregnancy. room, and they gave me all these options of what you can do next. And. At the time, everything, I would say I was heavily in my masculine energy. Like all just do the things, list out the steps and we will follow them to become parents. Alana: And because I traveled so far away, I took the option of a DNC, which is a dilation and curette. I'm not sure if that's called anything else anywhere else. And it's just basically the surgical removal. Yeah. Okay, cool. And yeah, and I woke up to complications after that. And, you know, after being told like, it's so routine and I just thought, you know, it would be simple. Alana: We do this and then I have a bleed and we can start trying again. And I woke up to, yes, as I said, complications. And [00:02:00] feeling really disorientated and I just felt really in my gut like wow what what just happened and they kind of just brushed me off and My doctor, then later, just was like, okay, well it's been six weeks, you haven't got your bleed back. Alana: Sometimes women need a little bit longer. And I just knew in my gut things weren't right. And for me, I had no period. So 12 weeks, post that surgery. I still had no period. Yeah. And I think maybe around the eight weeks I, I was like, no, my gut's telling me something's not right. I'm going to book a specialist appointment and because they take so long to get into, I thought I'm just going to book it now. Alana: And if I don't need it, then I can cancel it. Michelle: Did you, did you know anything at the time? Did they say something was off or you just kind of felt Alana: yeah, they, there was nothing ever mentioned of Ashman syndrome. The only thing that they mentioned, I mean, they obviously mentioned some risks that can happen and the risks, risks are a perforated uterus, but it's so [00:03:00]routine that if that was to happen, that was really negligence. And that was all that they had described as a potential risk. Alana: So I hadn't even heard of Ashman's by this point, like, and so I followed my gut, made this appointment and it must have been around the four month mark after surgery and I told him my story thinking I was just going in there to get a tablet that would just help kickstart everything. Maybe I just needed some help to get things along. Alana: And again, you know, I was, I was very naive at that time on, of my cycle and understanding my body. And I walked in and told him my story. And basically he said, we, there's something called Ashman syndrome, and I feel that this is, this is your situation. And. We need to get in and have a look like, cause he could do it via scans and then go in and do surgery, but he's like, due to the nature of how long you've already waited and the scar tissue that would be there if it was [00:04:00] confirmed. Alana: We need to get this cleaned up ASAP basically. Michelle: Before we continue on the details, I want people to know like, what is Asherman's syndrome? Alana: So Ashman's syndrome is basically where scar tissue grows inside the uterus and reduces your fertility as a result from some form of surgery. So they might try and say just from DNC, but if you have a baby and maybe there's retained placenta and they clean it out that way, any sort of surgical intervention within your uterus, Could potentially scar. Alana: And I think what's important for women to know right now is that any change in your period. Or if you're experiencing difficulties falling could be a sign. I have no women after, so the percentage is actually quite low. I forgot to look it up before we jumped on today of Ashermans. But The other women that I had sort [00:05:00] of searched for to bring awareness to our local hospital and their procedures, they had their period, but their periods just were different, a little bit lighter, maybe they didn't go as long, there was just a lot less. Alana: small signs, which they quite easily then got fobbed off as just being paranoid in a sense. And then all turned out to have different stages of Ashman's, whereas I had none and my stage was quite high. Actually the highest he had seen in my local area. So that was not good news for me. Michelle: Yeah. Alana: yeah, so long story short, he said we need to operate and Confirm, and if so, it's a 20 minute procedure, I'll be in and I'll be out. Alana: And, I thought, oh, I thought my legs were pulled out from me at that moment, but from that surgery I woke up and I felt really disorientated, as you do, and he's standing there waiting for me to wake up to tell me that, [00:06:00] yes, I've confirmed it's Ashman's Syndrome, however, it is so severe, I I've been in there for four hours and I can't see without risking damage to your uterus. Alana: And I need to do some further tests before we continue. And I remember the first thought I thought of was, am I going to be able to have children? And he had this solemn look on his face and he goes, I have no idea what's possible right now. And I was just. Gutted. Absolutely gutted. Michelle: Wow. That is so real. I mean to be in a situation like that and just thinking, okay, I'm going to go in and have the surgery and everything's going to be fine, it's going to be, what did he say? 20 minutes? And to actually see that it's really severe so what happened after that? Alana: Yeah, so I then had to go you have to allow a little bit of [00:07:00] time for some healing and they put in, I think it depends for the surgeon, but I got a gel put in that just kind of tried to help what he did pull away with the scar tissue not to reform because there is a risk that as he opens it up, like the little spindles might. Alana: touch and then start to pull together. So they put in this gel that lasts, I think, for four weeks. So I had to wait a month. And then he sent me for a we call it here a sonar histogram. So it's just a ultrasound where they insert water into your uterus. And then they can see like a good picture, the flow, if there's any blocks. Alana: And I think for women that might have blocked fallopian tubes, sometimes they use this and it can either unblock or at least identify that the fallopian tubes are blocked. And, I'm just going to say that was the worst pain I had ever been in getting that. And again, no one warned me that it could be uncomfortable. Alana: And I wouldn't say uncomfortable [00:08:00] was the word. And I was just so lucky. I had a girlfriend who came with me and just said, look, I can, I can sit here and hold your hand while they do this. And it probably turned out the reason why for me it was so painful, but I have now heard many other women describe it as quite excruciating. Alana: Is that my, most of my uterus? was scarred to the point that it was nearly completely shut. Michelle: Oh, wow. Alana: And so they were trying to obviously shove water in it and like open it up when it could not. And so that again was like a really hard thing to take. And the specialist had said that he will have to do this with multiple surgeries. The good news is there is a side, there's a little part that is open and he believed if he could get to there, then he could. Remove the rest and it may take a few surgeries, but he just wanted to take his time. Alana: He didn't want to [00:09:00] cause more damage. And so we had just resigned to the fact that this is a process that needs to be done and there's no rushing it. And the good news was the next surgery, he was able to remove all the scar tissue. And again, he inserted the gel so that the hopes that nothing would close back up. Alana: And then I had another follow up, just normal ultrasound, because I said, I was too scarred to have that other ultrasound again and yeah. And then from there he's like, okay, this is great. You know, we've got, we've got rid of it. The uterus has opened back up. It's gone to normal shape again. Let's work on your lining. Alana: So a. Do I call it a symptom afterwards? Is that Your lining may not become thick again. And he is also an IVF specialist. So he was really [00:10:00] wanting my lining to get to a certain thickness that he would put his, or would want his IVF patients to be on which just was not happening. And at first it was really disheartening. Alana: And so he'd reached out to, there's a guru in Sydney, and then he went further. I think it was It was overseas and he just said, you know, like some of them don't come back, you know, any thicker. And that is, that is their lining. And so obviously being a scientist, I had read all the papers, read all the stats and nothing was looking great to have a baby. Alana: Some women had not many in the severity that I had. And if they did have one that were high risks the risk was the placenta could attach to your uterus muscle. And just a whole heap of other things that you really don't want to hear when all you want to do is be a mom. [00:11:00] And yeah, so it was like, I just kept going to this place and this place just kept giving me the answers that did not agree with what was in my heart. Alana: And I just thought this can't be my story. This can't be my only story. And I just had this feeling to expand where I was looking. And so I started to research other modalities. And I thought, you know what, if I can just help support my body, who knows what's possible. And I ended up finding a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner who specialized in fertility and I went there weekly for two years. Alana: Yes. And I felt good. I felt like this was where I was meant to be, but it was really hard to hear the things that she[00:12:00] was saying. Like your body can be trusted. Your body can self heal. Everything's possible because at the time I was so, as I said, in my masculine energy of stats and facts that. Michelle: hmm. Alana: how, how, and it wasn't until obviously with the, with the acupuncture and the herbs, my mind started to heal, my heart started to heal, that then my womb had a chance to heal. Alana: And of course it sent me on this huge journey, deep dive into energetics of the womb and its capacity, its ability. And I started to believe that, whoa, okay. She's a powerful organ, and not just organ, portal for creation. And, Alana: Right? Tingles! Yeah! Michelle: Yeah. When you said heart, that struck me. 'cause I know that the heart's connected to the uterus. Alana: And, [00:13:00] it wasn't, it took me a long time to put two and two together. And, your emotional state. And like, the womb is the element of water, so your emotions. And it's the sister heart, right? So of course, our emotions are going to get stored in our uterus. And if she's too busy trying to hold our emotions that we're not processing, how was I giving her the space she needed to heal in the timeframe I wanted, you know? Alana: And it was just, my world had opened up. I still had at that time stayed close to the medical system. There was still fears, you know. that if I had fallen pregnant what that then might look like, what that journey may look like. And we decided to focus not on a baby at the moment, just focus on healing, get married. Alana: And I fell pregnant on my honeymoon or I found out on my honeymoon and we were so excited. But [00:14:00]again, I decided not to get a scan until a bit later, but that, that Bubby had decided only six weeks was it's time on this earth. And as, Sad as that was. It actually gave me the biggest sense of hope. And I realized the message was just give me time, Michelle: Oh, Alana: me time. Michelle: wow. Alana: And so I was like, okay, this is possible. That was without intervention. That was without any other, cause I had a lot of fear around anyone going in my uterus again, because of course I trusted someone to go in there and do their job. And I came out damaged and that really, and that like, not just you were hurt from that. Alana: That changed the projection of my life completely. And so I had a lot of mistrust. I didn't want anyone to go near it if I could help it. So I really wanted that natural approach. And as I said, as that strength between [00:15:00] heart and womb grew, I knew that that was going to be possible and I just had to trust that you know, the divine timing of trusting and surrender is not the easiest thing to fall into or follow, but. Alana: I just had to trust that my heart was guiding me on the path that, that then needed to be. Alana: Sorry, that brings up lots of emotions thinking about back then. Alana: And so, yeah, it was, it was actually quite interesting that the divine timing of the, that baby that I then lost the second time, my family suffered a significant loss in like my immediate family not long after. And. I believe that that baby also knew that it wasn't the time because I needed to be there for my little brother. Alana: And it was, I was just, [00:16:00] you know, at the time you just think, wow, I'm cop and blow after blow. But when you had the little bit of space, you just thought, well, how would I have been able to grow a baby right now? Like I am in so much grief. It, it was insane. And then once He was better. I went on a Bali trip with a best friend and we just, she's like, you just need to, you know, live life a little bit. Alana: And we went on this retreat and it was when we came back from that, we were like, okay, I feel like we're in a good place now. Like I'm in a good place. Let's just see what happens without the pressure and the timing and the scheduling. I didn't want conceiving to be a job. I really wanted it to be from the heart. And it was about, yeah, because I feel like when you're struggling, you really take the heart out of conceiving and conception. Michelle: is, you are, every single thing is a quote. I'm like, this is amazing. This is really, I'm [00:17:00] feeling this. Alana: Conception isn't just the creation between man and woman, Michelle: Yes. Alana: It's a co creation with the spirit of that baby and what it, what fuses that love, you know? And. I wanted the next baby to be strong, strong enough to like, whatever we needed to go through, we had each other. And. Michelle: Like the stuff that you're telling, like it's making me emotional. Just so you know, like I'm really feeling every word that you're saying, not to interrupt, but continue. Alana: I probably needed that pause for a second. Yeah. And so then we found out in February I was pregnant and you know what? I knew, I knew instantly this was the baby, that this baby was going nowhere, that they were here and. My dreams had come true. There were still fears around the placenta attaching to my uterus and what that could mean. Alana: And at the end of the [00:18:00] day, I have resided to the fact that if this was going to be my only baby, so be it because I wanted this baby. And. Yeah, I was in, I was, I had an OB because if things did start to go south, we wanted to be on that early. But anyways, I had a beautiful pregnancy. No complications. Alana: The placenta was in a great spot. And it even got to the point, because most, the stats had suggested that women with Ashmans have. a caesarean. And again, that fear of do not go near that part of my body. I don't want you there. I really didn't want it if I didn't have to. And I said, can I, can I try, can I try and go natural? Alana: Like everything is going well. There is no indication of anything wrong. And it was looking good and she thought possibly, but then my son decided to stay in the breech position and [00:19:00] I was not in the place that I am in now where I would continue with a vaginal birth. I mean, I was born a breech baby vaginally. Alana: And so I found it really hard that the quote I was told was that we have lost the art to birth a breech baby or the skills, not the art. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then today I think, I'm sorry, who's birthing the baby? Michelle: Mm hmm. Alana: The mom, Michelle: Right? Alana: the mom is birthing the baby. Not you. Yes, you're assisting, but yeah, so, You know, my views today would have changed on that. Alana: But at the time, again, as I had mentioned, I, we just wanted the baby. And she did give me options to do that, like manipulation, my traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, she was doing all the things to create the space. Yeah. Everything. I had everything going. I had it at home on my toes. I was doing the [00:20:00] upside down poses, which mind you made me feel absolutely terrible. Alana: And so I just said to my husband, I can't do this. Like. This feels wrong. And and I have to resign to the fact that. He found his position and he was not moving and that's where he wanted to be. And then it was my choice to decide how then that, that became our birth together. And so we had a cesarean beautiful little boy, everything great. Alana: It all went great. And so afterwards, because of the scarring and that fear that I had around my uterus, I didn't want to fall back in a place of like dissociation and detachment from it. Like I had. Started to rebuild this relationship with my womb. And now they've just. Also added another scar. And I was like, well, I've had one baby who's to say I can't have another like, and so I went on another deeper journey again. Alana: And with my practitioner of healing this scar tissue and softening it before it has the chance to [00:21:00] really harden in preparation for the next baby. And. Michelle: And this was acupuncture or another Alana: Acupuncture at the beginning. And then it was probably for the first six months I did acupuncture and she showed me how to self massage my scar tissue. And what else did we do? There was just a lot of hands on touch. And I think her focus was to remind me that you can still have loving touch on your body. Alana: After everything I had gone through. And after six months, It got a little bit hard with a little baby cause she was in Sydney where I had found it cause it was close to where it was really hard to get up to her. And now that he was starting to move and be mobile, it was a lot harder to have a session on my own. Alana: And so then I started looking at other modalities. I thought, well, okay, I've done all the acupuncture. Let's see what else there is. And I come across a lady who did Yoni steaming and she did energetic [00:22:00] support. Consultations beforehand. And it became just a really beautiful practice where I could turn within and I could nourish myself and just steam and just visualize the blood flow going back to my uterus and everything being soft and really in that feminine essence, that feminine energy to allow that nurturing to happen to my womb. Alana: And I went weekly. Until my bleed came back, which was 14 months post as I was a breastfeeding mom postpartum. And, you know, we were kind of on this urgency, let's, let's fall pregnant straight away because of everything we had. We didn't expect it to take two years to get our son. And I'm already in my thirties. Alana: So there was like that time pressure to, all right, if we want more children, cause you know, we had always talked about having four and we're like, Oh gosh, I don't know if four is going to happen now, but if we can get. You know, on the roll, we'll see what happens. And so I had to reduce my breastfeeds to get my bleed [00:23:00] back so that we could fall pregnant. Alana: And when we decided to start consciously conceiving, so I think it was just the month of that I ended up with my bleed. I started to feel this essence, this person, this spirit around me. And it was the first time I had really started to attune into these senses. And. I just could feel this girl, this pink. Alana: I could see pink around me when when she'd just show up. And it was really interesting because the month I fell pregnant. So obviously that two week wait, I couldn't feel her. I didn't know where she was. And I was like, Oh, I feel like she's here. And I was pregnant and I didn't tell anyone apart from the lady that I went to Yoni steaming, because we'd always talk about, you know what, what do I feel like a baby might be? Alana: And I was like, to be honest, I can actually sense this female around me. And I just get these glimpses of[00:24:00] pink like a pink orb and yeah. And then it turned out I had a daughter and what was beautiful about that pregnancy, I mean, we didn't find out. I like to just wait till birth to find out what the gender of our babies are. Alana: And. I did not want to go back to the hospital system. I didn't want to be put in a place where they would just see my history and then start to implement things that then of course would lead to other interventions that I didn't want. I didn't want to be supported in that way. I knew the capability of my body. Alana: I, like my pregnancy was again, a really gentle, easy pregnancy. I mean, I was very sick, but overall easy. And. I decided to home birth. And again, that was like a huge thing. Like in my immediate community, you know, no one does that. And so I didn't want to tell anyone cause I didn't need anyone's opinion [00:25:00] to discourage me from this because I had, I think it was just before I tested on a stick and I only tested on the stick to show my husband, like I didn't, I already knew I was pregnant. Alana: I had this vision that the birth would be at home. And so I really just wanted to trust that That was again, where I needed to go and I needed to trust. And that took a lot of self confidence to be able to say, no, this is, this is what I want to do and why. And yeah, I had my daughter at home and now I always knew that like my journey was. Alana: A lesson to be learned. It was a, because if I continued on the path I had continued, I would not be the woman I am today. I wouldn't be the mother I am today. I wouldn't be making the choices I've been making for myself and my family today. And it was like a realignment, but also a [00:26:00] gift for medicine for me to be able to share with women. Alana: And, you know, I want my story to be heard, but I've also then set up my own business so that I can still be at home with my babes because I want to raise my children. And I want to help women who feel like their story is just hurdle after hurdle. And what I've learned in this, this journey is like what we see in our physical body is only the tip of the iceberg. Michelle: Oh, yes. Alana: Yeah, and like when we're looking and talking about our womb, the energetic womb, there is so much she holds and there's so much healing that needs to start there. And the first thing I like to check with women is that connection between heart and womb, is there coherence and resonance? How are they emotionally feeling? Michelle: my language. Alana: right. And, [00:27:00] and that's why I, I love listening to your podcast because I just was like, you get this. Michelle: I feel the same way about you, by the way. Alana: And now I, I want women to like know how important it is to care for your womb and what we're seeing as manifestations on the physical side, the root cause. The reason that you may not be seeing change is not in the physical. It's in your energetics. Yeah. Michelle: 100 percent Oh my God. I mean, I'm telling you, like, I'm so moved by your story, but also it just fascinates me like beyond fascinates me. When you were saying that you're a scientist, like from somebody who came from a science perspective and background, and yet, even though you were still there, you still had your inner voice. Michelle: Letting know something was off, like the doctors didn't tell you anything was off. Nobody came to you after[00:28:00] the surgery and said, you know, something looks off. You figured it out. You knew it from the inside out. The wisdom within your body spoke to you Alana: Absolutely. Michelle: heard it. Alana: Yeah. And I think sometimes for women, if you allow that external noise to be too loud, you're going to feel it in your heart. You're going to feel it as grief, as sadness, as like, why is this happening? But that noise is too loud. Michelle: Mm Alana: And. You know, if, if all you take away from my story is that deep knowing it's okay to know that your path could be different and maybe that's your sign to go searching elsewhere Michelle: I mean, yeah, it's incredible. First of all, it takes a lot of courage. Oh, I mean, it takes a [00:29:00] lot of courage to hear something from an authority figure, especially if it's like people you're relying on and in the medical community and I'm just FYI, I'm not saying not to listen to your doctors but for your specific journey, your journey Had twists and turns and part of it did rely on you listening to your own gut and, and really getting to the bottom of it. Michelle: And you remind me a lot of a patient who came on the podcast, her name was Amy and she was in her forties. And she also was told she couldn't get pregnant with her own eggs and that she was approaching menopause. And she ended up having two babies afterwards, healthy babies. And she had this determination in her. Michelle: She was just, there was this. Kind of strength. And her voice was so loud, like her inner voice and not her voice. Her inner voice was so loud in telling her, no, no, no, no, no, you gotta, and she had this [00:30:00] determination within her that I see in you. And it's not something that is easy for everybody to answer that call. Michelle: Like it's not an easy call to answer Alana: No. And it's, it's a fire within, but it doesn't mean it's an easy path. And it's like, you have to have the courage to continue to choose, to continue to choose what you know to be true. And I had many challenges. There was many times where I was like, well, I feel like the universe sometimes goes, are you sure? Alana: Because you can choose here if you want to, because we were given choice on this, on this earth. Right. And you can choose to go this way because maybe you believe this is easier. Or keep going as a reminder, you know, just to, to, to choose and yeah, that fire and that courage, like there was a lot of times where I felt like, I don't know, [00:31:00] you know, because you don't know, there's so much unknown and the world really like thrives on structure because that brings safety and that brings knowing and this path can be so unknown and all, all you can do is put one foot. Alana: In front of the other and trust yourself, just trust in yourself, because then the pieces will start to fall and they will start to come. Yes, you may need to choose yourself, but keep choosing yourself and your baby. Because if you desire a baby, that desire is meant for you. Can you trust that? Michelle: You know what they say, there's that Rumi quote, it says, what you seek is seeking you. Alana: Yeah. Because otherwise, why would we? Why would we have that desire to do so? Michelle: I really believe that. That, thank you for saying that because I really, really believe that to be true. And I think a lot of people. learn from so many different opinions and so much of that noise, outside [00:32:00] noise, it dilutes their faith in that being true. Just because we don't have proof for something doesn't mean it's not true. Alana: Yeah. And you get to, you get to decide what's true for you. And I think that's when you come back to the medical system and your doctors is just having a place of discernment. Is this really true for you? And you know, if you can come from a place of self-trust and that self-trust guided you to go there, absolutely listen to that. Alana: Like my message is, listen and guide from within. Michelle: And when you talk about that heart, well, like there's this heart brain coherence, but the heart has. An energy field that's stronger than any other organ in our body. And people think it's all in the brain, but the heart actually has a way larger magnetic field. It has such an important role on our mind and it has such an important role on our uterus, [00:33:00]which is life giving and love gives life, breathes life. Michelle: So talk about that resonance and that coherence and what you've learned about it. When it comes to the heart and the uterus. Alana: so I want to start with a quote from Joe Dispenza that I had just recently heard, and it kind of just put the words to place of what I was feeling, and it, he says, We only accept, believe, and surrender to the thoughts that are equal to our emotional state. We only accept, believe, and surrender to the thoughts that are equal to our emotional state. Alana: And I was like, they're the words that I'm kind of searching for. Right. Because a lot of my sensations that come through me are feelings. So I knew the heart needed to heal and healing the heart allows for the womb to heal and this relationship, this agreement between the two, like the womb holding on temporarily to [00:34:00] emotions, to. Alana: then return to the heart so the heart can process and leave our body. And so there was a lot of practices that I have incorporated and I still do them daily where I will do a little visualization and my intention is always love. And You can still have love and gratitude, even if you're feeling deep sadness. Alana: And it's not about, I don't want to be sad anymore. Let's reject that. This is grief is one of the deepest emotions you can have that has profound healing when you allow it to run its course. Michelle: Yes. Alana: And I think for women who are trying to conceive, when you're struggling, the thoughts that start to come up why me? Why is my womb not working? I can't, I [00:35:00] can't fall pregnant. I can't do this. You know there is anger, there is a disconnection and disassociation from your womb and really. In this society, we are already starting from a place of disconnection from our first bleed and reconnecting, honing in. And sometimes it's as simple as 30 seconds, close down your eyes, put your hand on your womb. Alana: You take a deep belly breath, Alana: visualizing your hands that are warm. That mama hug that you just love to feel. Wrapping around your womb. Alana: And then telling it, I love you. Thank you for everything you are doing. [00:36:00] I know you want this too. Alana: And then bringing your hand back to your heart space. Alana: Feel that heartbeat. Alana: Your own rhythm. beating in your womb Alana: and feel the love between the two. Alana: Maybe you like to envision a rope, a golden cord, connecting, vibrating, Alana: sending out this beautiful white light. That's so strong and so pure.[00:37:00] Alana: Feel it wrap around your body, Alana: feel it encapsulate you. Alana: And then on your next inhale, breathe it all back in, breathe it into your cells, every inch of your being, physical, emotional mental and spiritual Alana: and opening your eyes and practicing a simple visualization I found daily was strengthening this reconnection. It allowed my inner voice to be heard. It built trust and surrender to the process because pregnancy, birth, motherhood, it is all setting you up. It is not something that you can plan out. Alana: The key is surrender. Michelle: hmm. Oh, [00:38:00] yeah. Alana: I get reminded of that every day. Michelle: Yeah, I think we all do, even though we've been on the path for a long time, the spiritual path really, that is in the path of truth and alignment. It doesn't matter. We get reminded every single day and I can literally talk to you for hours. I mean, There's just so much, so much information, so many things, so many ahas that I felt talking to you and I really truly think that you are so aligned in, I mean, I literally think that you're channeling wisdom. Michelle: You're very much connected to that. I can feel it. I could feel the truth in your words. I can feel the alignment I feel the awareness and the knowing and the true knowing of thyself. I think know thyself that's like the key and the only way to do that is to get quiet and To connect with your inner wisdom and to hear what your body is telling you because the more you hear it The more your connection with it gets stronger. Michelle: And of [00:39:00] course I can talk to you for hours, but we don't have as much as I wish, but, but I would love for you to share how people can find you and how people can work with you. Alana: Yeah, absolutely. Michelle: are inspired, which I know they are from your story. Alana: So you can find me on Instagram at the nurtured woman. Womb, W O M B A N and currently the way to work with me is through my one on one sessions and they're energetic womb explorations for one hour where we can just dive into your current state, your desire, and really start honing into this connection between heart and womb with then obviously the opportunity to extend. Alana: But That is the point of contact. Michelle: Awesome. Well, I definitely feel you are connected to that womb. wisdom and I know that womb wisdom does actually speak to us. So Alana, [00:40:00] thank you so much for coming on here today. Sharing your incredible story, like really incredible. Like I felt it on every level of my being. It got me emotional listening to your story. Michelle: And I thank you so much for coming on today. Alana: you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.
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EP 291 Demystifying Non-toxic Living | Sophia Gushee Ruan

EP 290 The Ultimate Pre-Pregnancy Checklist | Alexandria Devito

EP 289 Can Psychedelics Play a Role in Mind Body Healing? | Paul Austin

EP 288 Real Food for Fertility | Lily Nichols

EP 287 How Mindfulness Can Serve You on Your Fertility Journey | Josephine Atluri

EP 286 Divine Timing and Signs from Spirit Babies | Nancy Weiss

EP 285 The Power of Whole Foods for Fertility | Judy Simon & Angela Thyer

EP 284 Defying the Odds: An Incredible Fertility Story of Hope | Alana McGlashan