Episódios
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: why some apps see 30 times higher revenue on iOS versus Android, the challenges of running a business on multiple platforms, and why you should consider offering a free Android device to employees.
📱 Android expands global reach, but iOS drives early tractioniOS dominates in U.S. and premium markets, making it the best platform for an initial launch. Android, however, is essential for expanding globally, especially in emerging markets where adoption is higher. Apps that target international scale should prioritize localization and pricing strategies for Android users.
💸 User behavior and revenue potential vary by platformMonetization differs significantly - photo apps see up to 30x higher revenue per user on iOS due to Apple's stronger photography brand and higher user spending. However, on Android, business-oriented users spend more when an app directly impacts their income, making B2B and productivity apps strong contenders for success.
💡 Android's lower fees and customization offer strategic advantagesGoogle Play charges 15% on all subscriptions, compared to Apple’s 30% initially (dropping to 15% after the first year). This means Android revenue can have higher margins despite lower ARPU. Additionally, Android offers more flexibility in tracking, design, and experimentation - giving developers greater control over app performance and user experience.
About Matt Rouif:
📸 Co-Founder and CEO of Photoroom, leading innovation in AI-powered photo editing and automation for businesses and creators.📊 Matt specializes in scaling mobile apps across iOS and Android, optimizing monetization strategies, and overcoming platform-specific challenges to drive sustainable subscription growth.
💡 "As a business owner, it doesn’t matter. There’s no filter on if you’re an iOS or Android person. There's actually no bias. And so that's why at the end of the day everyone is working."
👋 Connect with Matt on LinkedIn!
Photoroom website
Resources:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: why optimizing for user success drives more revenue than conversion hacks, how to maximize the impact of annual plans, and why relying too heavily on discounts is a trap.Top Takeaways
🏋️♂️Segment early to acquire the right users
Long-term retention starts before users even download your app. Ladder segments potential users through quiz-based onboarding, tailoring messaging and acquisition strategies to fitness personas. Speaking to the right audience from the start leads to higher engagement and better retention.
✅Optimize trial experience for activation, not just conversion
Instead of pushing for immediate sign-ups, Ladder removes credit card barriers and focuses on getting users to complete their first workouts. Those who finish at least two workouts in the trial are far more likely to convert and remain subscribers long-term.
📊Match pricing offers to user engagement
Not all trial users should see the same offer. Ladder segments post-trial users based on their workout completion history. Engaged users are encouraged to commit to annual plans, while inactive users see monthly offers with first-month discounts to lower the barrier to entry.
About Greg Stewart
🏋️♂️ CEO of Ladder, leading one of the fastest-growing fitness apps by focusing on retention-driven growth and user success.
📊 Greg specializes in building sustainable subscription models, prioritizing long-term engagement over quick conversion hacks, and maximizing the impact of annual plans.
💡 "Everything that we build, every feature that we contemplate inside the app is all aimed at incremental workout completions. It's all aimed at keeping you around the app, keeping you motivated to continue on and stay consistent with your plan."
👋 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn!
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: the power of cancellation surveys, how social proof can re-engage churned users, and why making it easier to cancel might actually boost retention.
Top Takeaways:📦Deliver personalized value through lifecycle marketing
Reconnect with churned users by personalizing content and recommendations based on their past interactions. Use dynamic segmentation to tailor messages that highlight relevant new features or content. Making users feel understood increases the likelihood of re-engagement.
💵Use targeted discounts wisely
Offer personalized discounts to price-sensitive users, but do so strategically to avoid hurting long-term revenue. Consider tiered discounts based on subscription history or engagement level. Avoid blanket discounts to prevent users from gaming the system.🤔Provide flexible subscription options
Increase retention by offering flexible plans, such as shorter durations or the ability to pause subscriptions during off-seasons. This builds trust and reduces churn from users who only need the app occasionally. Flexibility makes users feel more in control and more likely to return.
About Caroline Walthall:📈 Director of Product & Lifecycle Marketing at Quizlet, driving user retention, re-engagement, and subscription growth.
🔄 Caroline focuses on understanding churn behavior, leveraging social proof, and designing win-back strategies that keep users engaged.💡 "You need to sort of win back and give them reasons to believe that you are invested and that you have enough ways to help them that maybe they haven’t tapped into before."
👋 Connect with Caroline on LinkedIn!
Quizlet
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David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: how onX Maps tailors freemium and trial strategies to different user needs, the role of user education in driving upgrades, and why experimenting with features and tiers is essential for subscription growth.Top Takeaways:
🔎Educate users about paid features
Don’t assume users know they’re on the free tier or understand the value behind premium features. Clearly communicate the benefits of upgrading through in-app education and feature highlights. Show users what they’re missing to increase the perceived value of paid tiers.🔥Target the right users at the right moment
Effective upsells require thoughtful timing and targeting. Segment users by behavior and trigger upsells when they’re most likely to convert, such as after interacting with a related feature. Contextual nudges feel more natural and less intrusive, increasing the likelihood of conversion.🚀Maintain a seamless user experience
Upsells are most effective when integrated naturally into the user journey. Avoid disruptive pop-ups - place upgrade prompts where they align with user actions. Maintain continuity in messaging to make the transition from free to paid feel logical and valuable.
About Brandon Gador:🏕️ Growth Lead at onX Maps, driving subscription success across multiple apps for outdoor enthusiasts.
📈 Brandon specializes in aligning monetization strategies with user needs, refining freemium and trial models, and creating seamless upgrade experiences through education and experimentation.
💡 "Monetization only works when your product solves real problems. It's about showing users the value they’re missing and guiding them toward it thoughtfully."
👋 Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn!Resources:
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: Keeping users engaged through habit-forming experiences, Duolingo’s approach to reactivating churned users, and why building daily habits is the foundation for long-term retention success.
Top Takeaways:
🏎️ Act fast - most users don’t come back after a week
The best time to re-engage a churned user is within the first three to four days. Duolingo found that users who stay away for longer become significantly harder to bring back. They send daily reminders for up to seven days, stopping when effectiveness drops.
📅 Use behavioral signals to personalize timing
Instead of relying on fixed schedules, time win-back messages based on past engagement patterns. Duolingo schedules reminders 23.5 hours after a user last engaged, ensuring notifications land at a moment when the user is most likely to take action.👥 Use social connections for long-term reactivation
For users who have been inactive for weeks or months, social reactivation beats app-driven outreach. Duolingo prompts active users to bring back their friends, which consistently outperforms standard win-back campaigns - even leaderboard competitors drive higher reactivation rates than app reminders.
About Jackson Shuttleworth:🌟 Head of Retention at Duolingo, focused on keeping users engaged and driving daily habit formation through innovative features and thoughtful strategies.
📈 Jackson brings expertise in user reactivation, data-driven experiments, and crafting experiences that foster long-term loyalty and growth.
💡 "The easiest way to retain a user is to never let them churn. It’s all about building habits and delivering value consistently."
👋 Connect with Jackson on LinkedIn!
Duolingo’s Website
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On the podcast, I talk with Anton about building sustainable viral growth loops at scale, how to effectively gamify user incentives, and why emotional connections drive more value than economic ones.
Top Takeaways:🚀 Building sustainable virality through strategic growth loops
Sweatcoin’s explosive growth didn’t happen by chance. Anton detailed how they engineered a viral engine through a combination of influencer-driven groundswell, controlled user-to-user invites, and strategic use of organic boosts. By balancing short viral spikes with long-term retention strategies, Sweatcoin has maintained stability and continued scaling without relying on traditional paid acquisition.
🎮 Gamification redefined: Turning steps into currency
Unlike traditional gamification tactics, Sweatcoin reframes users’ steps into a virtual currency, creating a balance they feel emotionally invested in. This subtle but powerful shift motivates users to keep walking—not just for rewards but to maintain and grow their “wealth.” It’s less about streaks and badges, and more about building perceived value.❤️ Emotional connections outweigh economic incentives
Anton shared a fascinating insight: Sweatcoin users valued their own coins up to 50 times more than they’d pay for someone else’s. This shows the power of emotional connection and personal investment. By helping users see value in their own activity, Sweatcoin taps into a deeper motivational layer than just financial incentives.🔄 Retention through positive habits, not guilt
Sweatcoin’s success is partly due to its focus on positive reinforcement rather than guilt-based nudges. By emphasizing natural daily habits and offering fun, valuable incentives, Sweatcoin maintains high retention without making users feel pressured or judged. This approach resonates with a broader audience, including the 70% of people who struggle with intrinsic motivation for fitness.
📈 From freemium to subscription—scaling with intent
Instead of starting with hard paywalls, Sweatcoin built a value-packed free tier that users love. This created a loyal, engaged user base before introducing premium features like ad-free experiences and advanced fitness tools. By establishing this solid foundation, Sweatcoin avoids the pitfalls of high customer acquisition costs and effectively bridges the gap from free to paid without alienating users.
About Anton Derlyatka:👟 Co-founder & CEO of Sweatcoin, the app that turns movement into currency—used by 180M+ people worldwide.
🎯 Anton built one of the most viral fitness apps by rethinking incentives, gamification, and how people form habits.
💡 “We’re not born to be active—we’re born to be lazy. The challenge is building an experience that makes movement rewarding.”
👋 LinkedIn
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: why the Big Mac Index falls short for app pricing, how Flo Health’s regional pricing strategy drives profitable user acquisition in emerging markets, and the importance of aligning pricing with long-term user retention for sustainable growth.
Top Takeaways:
💭 Know your audience - not just the economy
Don’t rely on basic indexes like the Big Mac Index. Instead, understand your audience in each region. For example, iOS users in emerging markets are typically wealthier than Android users, so pricing should reflect each platform’s unique audience.💸 Test prices with a focus on revenue, not conversion
Measure pricing success by average revenue per user (ARPU), not just conversion rates. Lower prices can boost retention and unlock profitable user acquisition by winning more auctions through better conversion signals.🌎 Adapt to cultural norms and changing habits
Price sensitivity varies by culture and is influenced by local norms. Streaming giants like Spotify and Netflix are paving the way for digital subscriptions globally. Monitor cultural shifts and adapt pricing strategies accordingly.
About Dmitry Gurski:
🌍 CEO and Co-Founder of Flo Health, Dmitry Gurski leads the world’s largest health app, with 73 million monthly active users globally and a mission-driven approach to health and wellness.📊 Dmitry is an expert in regional pricing strategies, leveraging extensive experimentation to optimize average revenue per user (ARPU) while maintaining accessibility. Under his leadership, Flow has achieved remarkable revenue growth by tailoring subscription models to meet diverse market dynamics worldwide.
💡 "When people can’t pay, it’s almost sinful to block access. Flow’s mission is to empower women globally, whether through paid or gifted subscriptions. Pricing isn’t about conversions—it’s about maximizing long-term value while staying true to our purpose."
👋 Connect with Dmitry on LinkedIn!
Resources:
Flo HealthCareers at Flo
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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
On the podcast: balancing freemium and premium experiences, how The Weather Company uses AI to predict subscriber behavior, and why focusing on user value rather than monetization is the key to subscription success.
Top Takeaways
🎯Target high-value users with personalized experiences
Identify your most valuable cohorts through deep segmentation and user research. Tailor paywalls and premium features to resonate with each segment’s needs, maximizing conversion rates without alienating casual users.
🌍Leverage contextual triggers and data-driven targeting
Use contextual signals (like weather data) and AI propensity models to reach users at the right moment. This makes paywall prompts more relevant and effective, driving higher conversions while maintaining a positive user experience.
⌨️Test, learn, and iterate continuously
Adopt a rigorous approach to A/B testing with clear hypotheses and well-defined KPIs. Be patient and run experiments long enough to account for external variables. Regularly refine AI models and adapt strategies based on evolving user behaviors and market conditions.About Rachel Chukura:
🌦️ Head of Consumer Product at The Weather Company, specializing in driving subscription growth and balancing freemium and paid user experiences.
📊 Rachel has a deep expertise in leveraging data analytics, user research, and AI propensity models to optimize conversion strategies while maintaining a seamless and valuable customer experience.
💡 "We don’t lead with monetization—it’s an outcome of creating a truly useful and performant experience for our users. It’s all about meeting them where they are and delivering value when it matters most."
👋 Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn!
The Weather Company website
Resources:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
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On the podcast I talk with Ashley about what makes Google App Campaigns so effective for growth, proven optimization strategies, and why lower CPMs can sometimes be a warning sign rather than a win.
Top Takeaways:
📈 Google App Campaigns: Big reach, but fewer levers to pull
Google’s ad platform delivers massive scale - search, YouTube, the Play Store - but hands much of the control to machine learning. That tradeoff can work in your favor, but only if you guide the system with structured testing, smart bidding, and strong creative input.🎯 Lower CPMs aren’t always a reason to celebrate
Lower ad costs might look good on paper, but they often mean your ads are running in lower-quality placements. Understanding where Google is serving your ads - whether in search, display, or YouTube - helps you avoid cheap but ineffective traffic.🚀 Scaling requires patience, not just budget
Google’s algorithm doesn’t respond well to drastic changes. Scaling too fast can throw off performance, leading to unstable results. The best approach? Increase budgets by 20% every few days to give the system time to adjust.🔍 Creative testing looks different on Google - play the game accordingly
Unlike Meta, Google doesn’t allow direct A/B testing for creatives. That doesn’t mean you can’t optimize. The best way to guide the algorithm? Set up multiple ad groups with distinct creative themes, then monitor what Google prioritizes.
💡 Google Ads on iOS: A challenge, but still worth it
Google’s iOS campaigns rely heavily on search and YouTube, but ATT and SKAdNetwork make tracking conversions trickier. Google fills in gaps with modeled conversions, but advertisers need to understand the discrepancies between Google’s reports and their MMPs.
About Ashley Black👨💻 Founder of Candid Consulting, an agency specializing in helping apps run effective marketing campaigns for Android and iOS.
🎶 Ashley spent years at Google leading app ad strategy, helping developers scale through machine learning, user acquisition, and optimization.
💡 “If you have an app and you’re starting to think about how you actually pay to get users to download that app, you’re probably going to start looking at Google.”
👋 LinkedIn
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On the podcast I talk with Sherina about why performance marketing eventually hits a ceiling, how to think about measure brand marketing, and why sometimes ignoring A/B test results leads to better outcomes.
Top Takeaways:
📈Freemium can’t feel cheapDeezer once took a hardline approach to converting free users – limiting features to push them toward paid plans. The result? Users didn’t upgrade; they just left. The best freemium models strike a balance: give users real value, build habit and trust, then make the premium experience feel like a natural next step.
💡Bundles and partnerships – growth without the ad spend
Instead of relying solely on ads, Deezer fuels growth through partnerships. Deals with telcos, hardware companies, and retailers like Sonos and Mercado Libre help put the app in front of millions of potential users. Bundling subscriptions with other services doesn’t just expand reach – it makes premium features feel like a built-in perk rather than an extra cost.🎯Performance marketing won’t scale on its own
Performance marketing can be an incredible growth engine – until it isn’t. As Deezer scaled, Sherina Khalidi saw firsthand how it eventually hits a ceiling. Brand marketing plays a crucial role in breaking through, keeping Deezer top of mind so performance campaigns can work more efficiently. Without that balance, acquisition costs rise, and growth stalls.🚀Measuring brand marketing when the usual tools fall short
Traditional attribution models struggle to capture the impact of brand marketing. At Deezer, Sherina and her team use a mix of media mix modeling, incrementality testing, and brand lift studies to fill in the gaps. Even when direct tracking isn’t possible, data-backed decisions still are.🔍Why ignoring A/B test results sometimes leads to better outcomes
A/B tests can be powerful, but they don’t always tell the full story. When Deezer tested new homepage designs, the data suggested sticking with an old, cluttered version – but Sherina’s team knew it wasn’t the right long-term choice. By trusting their instincts and focusing on user experience, they saw better results over time. Sometimes, the best decisions aren’t the ones that win the test.
About Sherina👨💻 VP of Performance Marketing at Deezer, a popular music and audio streaming platform.
🎶 Sherina has spent nearly a decade at Deezer, driving sustainable growth through freemium, performance marketing, and strategic partnerships.
💡 “Freemium only works if it’s actually free. Take away too much, and users won’t upgrade—they’ll just leave. The best freemium models build habit and trust before making the upsell.”
👋 LinkedIn
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
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Episode Highlights:
[1:10] Capitalizing on the opportunity: How Deezer took advantage of a cultural shift to become one of the pioneers of monthly subscriptions in the music industry.
[3:37] Changing their tune: Why the Deezer team pivoted from trying to frustrate users into paying for a subscription to leveraging strategic advertising partnerships.
[10:23] A David and Goliath story: How Deezer competes with large audio streaming brands like Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Apple Music, and Spotify.
[16:12] Playing the long game: Brand marketing may not provide immediate returns in revenue, but a solid brand image and positive user sentiment make performance marketing more effective.
[24:47] Measurement re-mix: How media mix modeling and incrementality testing can help you understand the effects of your marketing efforts better than basic tracking and attribution.
[34:16] Calculated risks: To succeed with performance marketing, you have to be willing to innovate, test, and learn from failure.
[38:32] Gut instinct: Data can help you understand what is and isn’t working, but it can also be misleading — sometimes you just have to trust your instincts.
[40:36] Knowing your audience: How user-centricity can help you make better marketing decisions. -
On the podcast we talk with Bruno about putting customers ahead of metrics, why there’s still massive opportunity to build successful apps today, and how a server crash turned into an accidentally successful A/B test.
Top Takeaways:
📈 The app ecosystem still holds massive opportunities
Developers often assume the app market is saturated, but it continues to evolve with new possibilities. Technologies like AI, AR, and better hardware create untapped opportunities for developers who are willing to innovate. Even in mature categories, developers can find success by solving specific user problems and offering unique value. Genius Scan’s long journey from a dorm-room project to a 5M MAU business shows that with the right focus, developers can still thrive in the app economy.💡 Putting customers ahead of metrics builds better businesses
Focusing on user needs over short-term KPIs creates stronger, longer-lasting businesses. Genius Scan avoids manipulative monetization tactics, instead building trust through transparent pricing and responsive support. By prioritizing the customer experience, the team has cultivated loyalty and word-of-mouth growth, proving that a people-first approach can lead to sustainable success.
🎯 Simplified pricing boosts revenue without hurting adoption
Bold pricing experiments can yield surprising results. When Genius Scan consolidated its subscription offerings by removing the lower-priced tier, the number of daily purchases remained the same, but revenue tripled as users gravitated toward the higher-tier option. This proves that users value premium offerings when they deliver meaningful value. Streamlining pricing not only simplifies decisions for customers but also creates opportunities for businesses to maximize revenue while maintaining adoption.🚀 Small changes can drive big results in app performance
An accidental server crash led Genius Scan to discover that simpler banner text converted twice as well as their original messaging. By intentionally testing the change, they uncovered a small tweak with outsized results. This underscores the power of continuous experimentation—businesses can uncover growth opportunities by testing everything from messaging to UX design.🔍 Bootstrapped success proves apps can thrive without funding
Indie developers can compete with tech giants by delivering specialized features that go beyond the basics offered by platform-native tools. Genius Scan, with its advanced scanning and export functionality, demonstrates how bootstrapped businesses can thrive by solving real problems for specific audiences. Building a sustainable business doesn’t always require outside funding—it requires focus, persistence, and delivering meaningful value to users.About Bruno Virlet
🚀 Co-founder of Genius Scan, one of the earliest and best scanning apps for smartphones, bringing advanced document scanning to millions of users worldwide.
📄 Bruno Virlet started Genius Scan with his roommate as a fun side project during their time at the University of Illinois, turning a simple idea into a 15-year journey of bootstrapped success.
💡 “We didn’t want to be entrepreneurs—we just wanted to build something useful. It was about creating an app we’d want to use ourselves. That’s still the ethos driving us today.”
🔧 Through continuous experimentation (even accidental A/B tests!), Bruno has grown Genius Scan to 5 million monthly active users—all while staying true to a customer-first approach.
👋 LinkedIn
The Grizzly LabsGenius Scan
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Episode Highlights:[00:00] The Genius Scan journey begins: How a side project in a university dorm room grew into one of the most successful scanning apps with 5 million monthly active users.
[02:09] Pivoting early: The original idea was scanning paintings in museums, but technical and market constraints led to a shift toward document scanning.
[05:38] A stroke of luck: How a canceled trip and a refund led Bruno to buy a MacBook and develop the first version of Genius Scan in just six weeks.
[07:26] App Store beginnings: Launching Genius Scan as a free app in 2010 and watching it skyrocket in the rankings before experimenting with monetization.
[13:45] Competing with tech giants: How Genius Scan stays relevant and competitive despite Apple and Google introducing native scanning features.
[19:50] Customer-first philosophy: Why Genius Scan focuses on user experience and avoids dark patterns, keeping features accessible without sacrificing long-term user trust.
[26:43] Experimenting with subscriptions: The shift from one-time purchases to subscription models, and how removing a lower-tier option increased revenue without affecting conversion.
[43:56] The accidental A/B test: A server issue revealed how minor changes in paywall text and presentation doubled conversions.
[50:05] Learning from feedback: How staying close to users through direct support drives product improvements and reinforces customer loyalty.
[57:45] Building a company for the long term: Bruno reflects on balancing growth, profitability, and personal priorities, emphasizing the value of independence and sustainable success.
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On the podcast we talk with Nathan about the strategic opportunity of web2app, how and when to use web2app, and why one app found success using webinars in their web2app funnel.
Top Takeaways:
🔑 Web-to-app opens up opportunities for small apps
Smaller apps can use web-to-app strategies to improve cash flow, gain better attribution data, and test acquisition campaigns with smaller budgets. It’s an effective way to experiment with paid growth without relying solely on app store mechanics.🎯 Gain full control over the user journey
Web-to-app lets developers craft highly personalized and seamless user journeys. Build onboarding flows, quizzes, and paywalls tailored to your users, free from app store restrictions.🌎 Reach untapped audiences with web-first content
Web-to-app opens the door to users who don’t convert directly through app ads. Channels like blogs, gated content, or webinars are excellent for capturing lower-intent users and nurturing them into app subscribers over time.💸 Increase revenue with smarter sales tactics
Web-to-app enables upsells, cross-sells, and product bundling that aren’t always feasible in-app. This strategy is particularly effective for higher ticket subscriptions or apps looking to diversify revenue streams.📣 Leverage unique channels to drive growth
Web-to-app expands the range of channels you can use effectively, from influencer campaigns with trackable links to affiliate partnerships, YouTube ads, and beyond. Each channel provides new ways to engage users at different stages of the funnel.About Nathan Hudson
👨💻 Founder & CEO of Perceptycs, a growth consultancy specializing in web-to-app strategies that drive user acquisition, retention, and revenue for mobile apps.👥 Nathan Hudson is passionate about helping apps reach their full growth potential by leveraging personalized user journeys, strategic web funnels, and creative acquisition channels tailored to their unique goals.💡 “A huge advantage of web-to-app is how much control you have. You’re not locked into the app store’s rules—you can fully tailor the experience, from onboarding questions to paywalls, in ways that resonate with your users”👋 LinkedInResoureces:
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Episode Highlights:[3:01] What does web-to-app mean?: Nathan Hudson explains the concept as converting traffic on the web or starting on the web before directing users to the app.
[5:28] Web-to-app strategies for different use cases: Nathan highlights common approaches such as quizzes, blog posts, and webinars to drive user engagement and app downloads.
[6:31] Defining web-to-app: Jacob Eiting describes it as using the web as part of either an acquisition or retention funnel.
[8:50] The benefits of cash flow: Nathan explains how web-to-app helps early-stage apps avoid waiting for long payment cycles by leveraging web purchases.
[10:50] Comparing conversion rates: Nathan shares that web often achieves higher conversion rates than app stores, particularly for higher-ticket subscription products.
[14:28] The role of attribution: Nathan discusses the advantage of better attribution tools on the web compared to app-only campaigns.
[20:23] Controlling user journeys: Nathan highlights how web-to-app allows brands to tailor onboarding experiences based on ad campaigns and user behavior.
[30:01] Reaching new audiences: Nathan explains how web-to-app campaigns can attract low-intent users and nurture them through lead magnets and webinars.
[37:07] Expanding to older audiences: Nathan discusses how web funnels allow brands to engage with desktop users and older demographics who may avoid app-only experiences.
[52:46] Personalization for success: Nathan emphasizes the importance of tailoring user experiences on web-to-app journeys to reflect user needs and context effectively.
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On the podcast we talk with Phil about how to effectively use benchmarks to aid decision making, the limitations of benchmarks, and why even the best companies aren’t top quartile in every single metric.
Top Takeaways:
📏 Benchmarks are a starting point, not a roadmap
Treat benchmarks as directional indicators to uncover growth opportunities and prioritize actions, but don’t chase them blindly. They work best as tools for identifying areas to explore rather than metrics to perfect.
🏆 Focus on strengths over chasing perfection
It’s unrealistic to aim for excellence in every area. The most successful companies lean into their strengths, improve key weaknesses, and focus resources where they will make the biggest impact.⚔️ Beware of misleading benchmarks
Not all benchmarks are helpful. Poorly sourced, overly generic, or irrelevant data can lead to wasted effort or misguided decisions. Use benchmarks that are specific to your category, geography, or growth stage.
🔍 Metrics only matter with context
Numbers on their own don’t tell the full story. A high churn rate might be fine if you acquire users cost-effectively and retain high-value customers. Metrics need to be interpreted with a deep understanding of your product and target audience.💡 Data is powerful, but intuition seals the deal
Data highlights where to focus, but the most effective decisions come from pairing metrics with experience, intuition, and a clear understanding of your customers. This balance of analysis and instinct drives smarter, more impactful strategies.
About Phil Carter👨💻 Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth, a consultancy dedicated to scaling consumer subscription companies through actionable benchmarks and strategic insights
👥 Phil Carter is committed on empowering consumer subscription companies to achieve sustainable growth by leveraging benchmarks, refining growth strategies, and identifying key opportunities for value creation, delivery, and capture.
💡 “Where people get in trouble with benchmarks is they try to make them the end-all. be-all right. They try to do more with them than they really should be.”
Elemental Growth Website
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Episode Highlights:[1:37] The Subscription Value Loop: Phil introduces his framework for driving sustainable growth through value creation, delivery, and capture, and how it applies to subscription businesses.
[5:52] Benchmarks as tools: Phil explains how benchmarks are a directional tool to guide decision-making and identify growth opportunities rather than an end-all, be-all.
[13:07] Judging good ideas: The team discusses how great execution relies on judgment and filtering good ideas to focus on what moves the business forward.
[20:53] Using the Subscription Value Loop: Phil shares how the framework acts as a diagnostic tool for spotting bottlenecks in client businesses and setting growth priorities.
[24:47] The impact of pricing and free value: Phil describes a fitness app’s challenge with over-delivering value for free, resulting in low subscription conversion rates and pricing adjustments.
[30:26] The power of subscription retention insights: Phil explains how understanding differences in retention between annual and monthly subscribers can shape pricing and product strategy.
[36:32] Interpreting benchmarks through context: The hosts discuss how benchmarks differ based on the business model, user acquisition strategy, and market dynamics.
[42:46] Paid vs. organic growth strategies: Phil underscores the risks of being overly dependent on paid ads and the value of diversifying acquisition through organic channels.
[47:18] Value capture and monetization: Phil explores strategies for optimizing conversion rates, pricing, and paywalls to increase revenue capture from free users.
[55:45] What’s next for the Subscription Value Loop Calculator: Phil shares plans for enhancing the tool with better data, new filters, and expanded benchmarks in future versions.
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On the podcast: estimating the revenue potential of an app, crafting an exit strategy, and why LTV is such a terrible metric.
Top Takeaways:
🎯 Finding the right market fit – Not all apps have billion-dollar potential, and chasing massive markets often means competing with big players. Instead, focus on markets where your app has room to stand out. By positioning yourself in a "Goldilocks zone"—big enough to scale but niche enough to avoid overcrowding—you’ll lay the groundwork for sustainable growth.📈 Portfolios over all-in strategies – Instead of putting all your effort into scaling one app, building a portfolio of smaller, successful apps can diversify risk and drive steady revenue. Portfolios give you the flexibility to test new ideas and spread your earnings across multiple use cases, avoiding the pitfalls of over-concentrating on one product.
🔍 When to expand features or create a new app – Apps with focused, singular value propositions tend to attract and retain users better than those overloaded with features. Before adding more functionality, ask: Does this align with the app’s core mission? If not, consider launching a complementary app to avoid cluttering your existing product.
🧪 Price testing without regrets – Effective price testing requires patience and precision. Run small tests, and use early retention patterns—such as trial-to-paid or monthly renewal rates—to model the impact on long-term subscribers. Always prepare for possible retention dips by planning worst-case scenarios to protect your bottom line.
✍🏻 Set up for a strategic exit – If acquisition is your goal, build your app to be buyer-ready. Private equity and strategic acquirers look for apps with clean operations, predictable revenue, and scalable systems. Crafting a clear differentiation and avoiding operational mess increases your chances of attracting high-value offers and makes the process smoother.
About Patrick Falzon
👨💼 Co-founder of The App Shop, Patrick helps app developers build sustainable portfolios, optimize monetization, and prepare for strategic exits.📈 With extensive experience in app monetization and growth strategies, Patrick is focused on creating streamlined user experiences while identifying opportunities for sustainable scaling and market differentiation.
💡 “A big market is great only if you can take a substantial or specific share of that market. If it’s so competitive that you can’t garner any market share, it’s not actually valuable to you."
👋 Patrick on LinkedIn
Resources
The App Shop websiteFollow Us:
• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[1:41] The story begins: Patrick’s career evolution — from investing in to operating at Mosaic Group.
[7:59] A stand-out app: Why RoboKiller, an app for blocking spam calls and texts, stood out in Mosaic’s portfolio.
[9:07] Evaluating market size: Mosaic’s framework for assessing an app’s revenue potential balances market depth with competition and user demand.
[14:20] Tough markets to crack: Mosaic avoided saturated app categories (like VPNs and personal finance), due to high acquisition costs and competitive pressure.
[19:36] Depth vs. breadth: How Mosaic decided whether to enhance existing apps or create new ones.
[25:52] Portfolio strategies: Building a diverse portfolio of smaller apps, instead of scaling a single app, can reduce risk and increase sustainable revenue.
[32:14] LTV pitfalls: Patrick stresses the importance of capping LTV projections and focusing on shorter payback periods to make realistic growth decisions.
[39:20] Exit strategy: Aligning operational processes, profitability, and a clean setup improves the chances of a successful app exit.
[49:12] Retain to sustain: Why user retention metrics are key to building durable, long-term revenue.
[1:01:05] Good press: How Mosaic leveraged proprietary data to secure media coverage, boosting RoboKiller’s organic growth and user trust. -
On the podcast: the power of user segmentation, executing bold strategic shifts, and why imaginary customer conversations are sometimes better than real ones.
Key Takeaways:
💡 Simplification drives growth - Alex shares how transitioning from a freemium to a free trial model simplified V1 Sports' monetization strategy, aligning better with their users and discovering new revenue opportunities.
🤔 Rethink assumptions to uncover opportunities - Alex emphasizes the importance of questioning outdated business assumptions, using user feedback and internal discussions to refine strategies and reignite growth.
📊 User segmentation unveils hidden value - By identifying key user needs, like connecting golfers with coaches, V1 Sports leveraged segmentation to create tailored offerings that boosted engagement and revenue.⏳ Bold decisions can pay off - Switching longstanding free features to paid access generated friction but ultimately led to a 90% revenue growth, proving that sometimes taking risks is necessary to drive business viability.
🌐 Focus on ideal users for long-term success - Alex highlights the importance of catering to highly engaged users who find value in the product, ensuring sustainable growth while reducing churn from less committed users.
About Alex Prasad👨💻 CEO of V1 Sports, a leading provider of video golf swing analysis software and seamless video lesson solutions for golfers and instructors.
👥 Alex Prasad is committed to driving growth through bold strategic shifts, user segmentation, and simplifying complex monetization models to serve better the needs of both consumers and professionals in the golf industry.
💡 "You can’t please everybody—much harder when those people are already in the tent and some may perceive it as you kicking them out because you’re changing the rules of the game."
👋 LinkedInResources - Alex
V1 Sports WebsiteFollow us on X:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[2:10] Adapting for success: How V1 Sports, a 30-year-old technology company, became a leader in video golf swing analysis by adapting to market changes.
[5:48] Trials and tribulations: Why V1 Sports switched from freemium to free trials, and the challenges it created.
[10:32] Keep it simple: How simplifying monetization can lead to new revenue opportunities.
[17:15] Bold bets and backlash: Asking long-time users to pay for previously free features and navigating the resulting backlash.
[24:30] Segmentation wins: How V1 Sports identified key user needs, like finding a coach, to create tailored solutions and increase engagement.
[30:22] Innovation meets tradition: The challenges of preserving legacy app features while modernizing your product to meet new user demands.
[36:48] Critical feedback: The dreaded one-star review can be an opportunity to improve and grow your business.
[43:10] Talking it out: How Alex uses hypothetical user dialogues to guide product and customer strategy decisions.
[57:20] Know your audience: Alex emphasizes the importance of catering to ideal customers and avoiding the trap of chasing uncommitted users. -
On the podcast: what’s currently working for apps on TikTok, how to create viral content, why you should try working with influencers who don’t have many followers.
Key Takeaways:
🔍 Getting noticed: How TikTok’s algorithm amplifies reach - TikTok’s “For You Page” prioritizes engaging content over follower count, so apps can go viral without a big audience.
📈 E-commerce strategies that work for apps on TikTok - E-commerce brands have mastered quick, punchy content on TikTok, and app marketers can adopt similar tactics. Short tutorials, “top 5” lists, and problem-solution demos grab attention fast and build trust.
🚀 Adding viral-ready app features for growth loops - Viral-ready features, like progress trackers or custom shareable visuals, give users a reason to promote the app. Highlighting milestones, achievements, or unique app insights adds a built-in social layer that drives organic growth.
📝 Think like a TikTok producer, not a consumer - Scroll with intention. Save top content by category to keep your ideas fresh and aligned with TikTok trends.
🧪 Testing app ideas and features on TikTok - Test app ideas and features on TikTok with waitlists and concept marketing to validate user interest before building.
About Joseph Choi
👨💼 Founder of the Viral App Founders Community, with a background in e-commerce marketing and a keen focus on helping app developers go viral, especially through innovative approaches on TikTok.📈 Joseph has a deep understanding of viral marketing and influencer strategies, emphasizing the value of working with “micro-influencers” or creators with smaller followings who often drive authentic engagement.
💡 "On TikTok, it’s not about having a huge follower count; it’s about connecting with users through genuine, engaging content. Even a new account can achieve millions of views with the right approach."
👋 Follow Joseph on X → https://x.com/JosephKChoi
🗣️ Register for the upcoming webinar with Joseph.
Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co
Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://x.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://x.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https:/x.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://x.com/SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[5:12] Leverage with TikTok: Joseph explains why TikTok’s unique “For You” page allows even new accounts to reach massive audiences without needing followers.
[11:35] Influencer shift: Why working with micro-influencers, or creators with smaller followings, can lead to higher engagement and more authentic content for apps.
[18:43] TikTok Shop revolution: Joseph dives into how TikTok Shop’s affiliate model has changed the game for e-commerce, allowing products to reach audiences quickly with creator-driven content.
[24:58] Crafting a viral hook: Apps that create emotional, relatable hooks gain traction, especially when leveraging TikTok’s algorithm to amplify visually appealing content.
[32:12] Power of authenticity: How TikTok users value authenticity over polished content and what that means for brands looking to grow on the platform.
[39:47] AI and content quality: Joseph discusses the intersection of TikTok’s AI and quality content, stressing that no algorithm trick beats a strong story and engaging format.
[45:09] Effective CTAs on TikTok: Best practices for call-to-actions on TikTok, focusing on subtle prompts over traditional “link in bio” strategies.
[53:20] Content inspiration: Joseph’s method of tracking viral content trends and adapting successful formats to keep app marketing fresh and engaging. -
On the podcast: the risk of ad creative concentration, how to reach older, high-value demographics, and why the ultimate KPI is revenue.
Key Takeaways:
🛠️ A unified roadmap eliminates silos - Operating with one shared roadmap ensures alignment across product, marketing, and engineering, promoting collaboration and agility.
💡 Monetization might require more than just subscriptions - Post-IDFA, blending subscriptions with ads and one-time purchases maximizes revenue and reaches non-subscribers.
📺 TV and radio ads still build trust - Older audiences trust TV more than digital ads. A diversified media mix and real-time tracking can make these channels highly effective.
📊 Creative testing prevents costly surprises - Diversifying creative assets across platforms reduces risk and ensures consistent ad performance, even when policies change.
🎯 Empathy boosts customer loyalty in niche markets - High-touch, personal responses to customer feedback—especially in sensitive sectors—can build trust and long-term loyalty.
About Ryan Beck
👨💻 Co-founder and CTO at Pray.com — an app with a mission to grow faith, cultivate community, and leave a legacy of helping others through faith-based content and community-building features.
👥 Ryan Beck is driven by innovation in technology for the faith space, successfully navigating the complexities of building digital platforms that resonate with older, high-value demographics while maintaining exceptional retention rates.
💡 "We saw a space that was underserved, where technology could bridge the gap between faith organizations and their communities, making faith more accessible in the digital age.”
👋 LinkedIn
Resources
Pray.com
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
Follow us on X:Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co
Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:
[00:57] Digitizing faith: Pray.com’s mission to modernize faith organizations with digital platforms.
[02:49] Better together: The challenges and benefits of building a platform for diverse faiths with shared goals.
[04:47] Generation gap: Addressing tech adoption and user retention challenges with older demographics.
[06:47] Traditional values: How Pray.com used TV and radio ads to reach older, high-value users.
[09:16] Say your prayers: The devotional content that strengthened Pray.com’s user engagement and retention.
[11:52] Keeping the faith: Introducing subscription models without losing the trust of a faith-driven community.
[19:59] Lessons in diversification: The risks of relying too heavily on a single ad creative.
[31:08] Faith meets tech: Blending technology with spirituality to create accessible digital content for all.
[41:26] Data-driven decisions: How the Pray.com team optimized their TV and digital ad strategies for maximum impact. -
On the podcast: effectively scaling support for an app, why the time to first response is so important, and why you should treat support more like a concierge experience.
Key Takeaways:
💡 Personalized customer support is a competitive advantage - Eli emphasizes that providing fast, personal responses to customers sets brands apart from competitors. Even in a world of increasing automation, building a concierge-like experience can boost customer loyalty.
🤖 AI and human support can work in harmony - Eli explains how Captions blends AI-driven automation with human agents, allowing the support team to focus on more complex customer needs while AI handles repetitive tasks, creating a seamless experience.
⏳ Speed matters: Time to first response is key - Captions prides itself on a 58-second average response time, which Eli believes is critical to keeping customers satisfied and preventing churn. Quick responses signal that the company is engaged and ready to help.📊 Building customers for life through proactive support - Eli shares Captions’ philosophy of nurturing “customers for life” by going beyond just resolving issues. Sharing customer success stories with the team helps build a culture focused on long-term user satisfaction.
🌐 Scaling with localization and 24/7 support - Captions serves users globally by providing 24/7 support and localized services, ensuring that customers in every market receive timely, effective assistance regardless of their language or region.
About Eli Winderbaum:👨💻 Head of Customer Experience at Captions, an AI-powered video creation and editing app designed to help users tell better stories through seamless video content.
👥 Eli is passionate about scaling customer support with a focus on personal, concierge-level experiences that build long-term customer loyalty, rather than simply deflecting inquiries with automation.
💡 "Even if we don't resolve their issue right away, providing a fast, empathetic response builds trust and shows our users that we're here to support them—turning a quick interaction into a lasting connection."
👋 LinkedInResources:
Captions websiteFollow us on X:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[3:18] Don’t just deflect: Why support isn’t just about reducing tickets—it’s about creating a concierge-like experience.
[8:26] Support as a moat: Great customer support can be your competitive edge, especially when users are comparing similar apps.
[12:15] Hiring right: How curiosity and embracing change are key traits for building a top-tier support team.
[16:44] The AI edge: Blending AI and human agents to enhance, not replace, the customer experience.
[21:22] Scaling globally: How Captions offers 24/7 support across different time zones and languages.
[27:50] Community roots: The role that platforms like Discord can play in early-stage customer feedback and feature development.
[34:10] Docs and AI: Keeping documentation up to date is crucial for effective AI-powered support.
[41:35] Turn feedback into features: Captions' approach to quickly implementing user feedback to create loyal customers. -
On the podcast: the rebound of consumer subscription valuations and investor interest, how to generate Net Revenue Retention in consumer, and why you should pinpoint where your app sits on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
Key Takeaways:
📈 The subscription app industry is rebounding in 2024 - After setbacks in 2022 and 2023, surviving companies are now leaner, more focused, and showing strong profitability and retention. This resurgence is reflected in both private transactions and public valuations, signaling positive momentum.
💡 Net Revenue Retention (NRR) is achievable in consumer apps - Top-performing apps boost NRR by stabilizing churn and driving revenue growth through price increases, family plans, and premium features. The key is delivering ongoing value to loyal users while maintaining strong retention.
🎯 Maslow's Hierarchy of Subscription Needs offers a roadmap for retention - Successful apps align with user passions by addressing needs like safety (e.g., Life360) or self-actualization (e.g., Calm). Integrating features like leaderboards and community functions deepens user engagement and fosters long-term loyalty.🛡 Platform threats like Apple's "Sherlocking" can be overcome with specialization - Apps that go deep in their verticals (e.g., Flo or AllTrails) offer premium, differentiated experiences that platform-native features can’t replicate. Innovation and specialization are key to thriving despite competition from OS-level features.
🚀 Flo’s success shows the power of retention and long-term engagement - Flo’s $200M raise and $1B+ valuation were driven by its freemium model and strong user retention across life stages. By building long-term relationships with users, Flo has positioned itself as a leader in the female health space.
About Eric Crowley👨💻 Technology investment banker and partner at GP Bullhound.
💵 Eric is passionate about providing advice and capital to consumer subscription software (CSS) businesses.
👋 LinkedInResources:
GP Bullhound website2024 Consumer Subscription Software (CSS) Report — GP BullhoundFollow us on X:
David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSub Club - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights
[4:32] The Rule of 40: A good rule of thumb for correlating your business’s trading value with your growth rate and profitability.
[9:10] Rising tide: Successful app businesses like Flo are part of a recent wave of mergers and acquisitions in the CSS industry.
[15:39] Land and expand: How consumer subscription services are improving net revenue retention (NRR) with their existing users.
[23:15] Sherlocked: The threat of Apple and Google releasing new platform features that compete with niche subscription apps.
[31:52] Law and order: How app business owners and investors are thinking about new regulations like the Digital Markets Act (DMA).
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On the podcast: The benefits of building something you personally care about, how to balance user feedback with product intuition, and why process, frameworks, and outside advice are often worth ignoring.
Key Takeaways:🚀 You don’t need complex processes to build a successful product
Building something meaningful doesn’t always require elaborate processes or formal business structures. With passion, a clear vision, and consistent execution, developers can create successful products without overcomplicating the journey.
🔄 A strong feedback loop with your community can drive product evolution
Engaging with an active user community creates a continuous feedback loop that helps developers iterate faster and build more relevant features. Listening to real users and balancing their input with your vision can transform a product into something that truly resonates.
📈 Pricing strategies require experimentation, not perfectionInitial pricing doesn’t need to be perfect. By experimenting with different price points over time, you can find a balance that works for your users. Significant price increases might not impact demand as much as you’d expect, giving you room to adjust and optimize without overthinking the starting point.
💡 Reactive development can lead to faster, more informed decisions
Acting quickly in response to persistent customer requests can help validate new features and insights faster. Instead of over-analyzing, shipping updates rapidly provides real-world feedback that guides better decision-making.
💸 Plan for risks when relying on third-party dependencies
Building heavily on a third-party API can expose you to unexpected changes in pricing or policies, potentially leading to unsustainable costs. Always evaluate the long-term stability and alignment of external platforms with your business goals to safeguard against disruption.
About Christian Selig
👨💻 Indie iOS developer and creator of the Apollo for Reddit app.
📱In addition to Apollo, Christian is also the creator of Juno, Pixel Pals, and a burgeoning YouTube channel.
👋 LinkedIn
David BarnardJacob EitingRevenueCatSub Club
Follow us on X:
Episode Highlights[3:33] Origin story: Christian’s time at Apple and path to indie development.
[4:58] Positive feedback loop: How collecting user input from Reddit users helped shape Apollo.
[8:23] Go your own way: There’s no one-size-fits-all formula for creating a successful app.
[15:25] Passion project: Truly caring about what you’re building is one of the most important factors for success.
[26:48] Just say no: How to decline feature requests without alienating your users.
[30:10] Choose your own adventure: Understanding the venture-backed model versus indie development.
[36:30] End of the line: How and why Christian made the decision to shut down Apollo.
[47:40] Vision for the future: Christian’s post-Apollo projects: Juno, Pixel Pals, and YouTube. - Mostrar mais
