Episódios
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Nathalie Etoke joins The Gray Area to talk about existentialism, the Black experience, and the legacy of dehumanization.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Nathalie Etoke. Her book is Black Existential Freedom.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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A mile of pure fire. A flash that melts everything — titanium, steel, lead, people. A blast that mows down every structure in its path, 3 miles out in every direction. Journalist Annie Jacobsen spent years interviewing scientists, high-ranking military officials, politicians, and other experts to find out how a nuclear attack would be triggered, the devastation it would cause, the ruptures it would create in the social fabric, and how likely it is to happen today. She wrote about all of this in her new book Nuclear War: A Scenario. Jacobsen spends the hour clearly laying out the horrifying yet captivating specifics for Sean, and the prospects for avoiding catastrophe.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Annie Jacobsen. Her book is Nuclear War: A Scenario
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Albert Camus was a Nobel-winning French writer and public intellectual. During Algeria’s bloody war for independence in the 1950s, Camus took a measured stance, calling for an end to the atrocities on each side. He was criticized widely for his so-called “moderation.” Philosophy professor Robert Zaretsky joins Sean to discuss Camus’s thoughts on that conflict and the parallels with the present moment.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Robert Zaretsky
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Old people have always worried about young people. But psychologist Jonathan Haidt believes something genuinely different and troubling is happening right now. He argues that smartphones and social media have had disastrous effects on the mental health of young people, and derailed childhood from real world play to touchscreens. He joins Sean to talk about his research and some of the criticisms of it.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Jonathan Haidt (@jonhaidt). His book is The Anxious Generation.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Sebastian Junger came as close as you possibly can to dying. While his doctors struggled to revive him, the veteran reporter and avowed rationalist experienced things that shocked and shook him, leaving him with profound questions and unexpected revelations. In his new book, In My Time of Dying, Junger explores the mysteries and commonalities of people’s near death experiences. He joins Sean to talk about what it’s like to die and what quantum physics can tell us about living that countless religions can’t.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Sebastian Junger. His new book is In My Time of Dying.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Ozempic and other new weight loss drugs are being touted as potential miracle cures for diabetes and obesity. Journalist Johann Hari experimented with the drug and dropped 40 pounds. In his new book, Magic Pill, Hari discusses his experience with Ozempic and speaks to many of the leading scientists to better understand how the drug works. He joins Sean to talk about what he’s learned and the complicated trade-offs involved in the decision to take these drugs.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Johann Hari (@johannhari101). His new book is Magic Pill.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Cristian Ayala
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Religious studies professor Diana Pasulka was a total nonbeliever in alien life, but she began to question this after speaking with many people who claim to have had otherworldly encounters. She also noticed how these accounts parallel the foundational texts of many religions. She has since written two books on the topic, the most recent of which is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences. She joins Sean to talk about extraterrestrial life, God, angels, and the renewed interest in UFOs.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Diana Pasulka (@dwpasulka). Her new book is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Most of us don’t know how to truly listen, and it’s causing all sorts of problems. Sean Illing is joined by journalist Kate Murphy, the author of You’re Not Listening: What You’re Missing and Why It Matters, to discuss what it means to be a good listener, the problems that are caused when we don’t listen to each other, and the positive impacts on our health when we do.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Kate Murphy, author of You’re Not Listening: What You’re Missing and Why It Matters
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This episode was made by:
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall
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The internet has fractured our world into a million little subcultures catering to the specific identities and habits of everyone online. Writer Derek Thompson believes this has led to a widespread cult-like mentality that has crept into all facets of modern life — pop culture, media, politics, and religion itself. He joins Sean to explain this theory, and why it’s maybe not such a bad thing.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Derek Thompson (@dkthomp). His podcast is Plain English, and he writes for The Atlantic.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Is it possible that we are living through one of the most revolutionary periods in human history? CNN’s Fareed Zakaria believes that we are and argues that the convergence of AI and the global backlash against liberal democracy are upending political orders around the world. He joins Sean to talk about how this period relates to history’s most impactful revolutions, both political and technological.
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Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Fareed Zakaria (@fareedzakaria). His new book is Age of Revolutions.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Philosophy may seem like a theoretical or abstract discipline in which unanswerable questions are debated to the point of tedium. But MIT professor Kieran Setiya believes that philosophical inquiry has a very practical and applicable purpose outside of the classroom — to help guide us through life’s most challenging circumstances. He joins Sean to talk about self-help, FOMO, and midlife crises.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Kieran Setiya. His book is called Life is Hard.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Jane Marie is an expert in American bullshit. Her podcast The Dream explores life coaching, wellness, marketing, and other fraudulent industries and exposes their exploitative practices. Her book, Selling the Dream, takes an even closer look at multilevel marketing schemes like Amway and Herbalife and gives historical context to this multibillion-dollar — and distinctly American — enterprise.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Jane Marie. Her podcast is The Dream and her book is Selling the Dream.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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As a non-believer, Devin Moss never thought he would become a chaplain or a spiritual adviser, much less one who counsels hospital patients with terminal illnesses and inmates on death row. Devin joins Sean to talk about his improbable journey, the death penalty, and the role of religion in an increasingly secular society.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Devin Moss. His podcast is The Adventures of Memento Mori.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Journalist Rhaina Cohen believes that modern culture undervalues friendships and discusses the ways in which deep friendships are distinct from but no less meaningful than romantic partnerships.
Guest host: Sigal Samuel (@sigalsamuel)
Guest: Rhaina Cohen (@rhainacohen). Her book is The Other Significant Others.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Stephen Markley’s novel, “The Deluge,” is an ambitious and terrifyingly realistic look at our collective future on a warming planet. He joins Sean to talk about the 10-year process of writing the book, the current political struggle over climate action, and how we can confront and mitigate the worst effects of climate change.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Stephen Markley. His book is “The Deluge.”
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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It’s been 50 years since Ernest Becker’s breakthrough book The Denial of Death was first published, and its thesis has become more relevant than ever. Filmmaker Jef Sewell is the co-creator of a new documentary about Becker called All Illusions Must Be Broken. It features never-before-heard audio of the enigmatic anthropologist and puts his theories in a modern context.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Jef Sewell. Find out more about the film at www.twobirdsfilm.com
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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Silicon Valley is in the middle of an AI frenzy, and many of its leaders believe this technology could eventually result in human extinction. Tyler Austin Harper breaks down the most outlandish predictions, some of the more plausible problems AI poses, and how this moment reminds him of earlier extinction panics.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Tyler Austin Harper (@Tyler_A_Harper). Read his piece in the New York Times here.
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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America solidified its dominant posture in the international order following World War II and largely held that position for the following half-century. But as problems have accumulated at home and abroad, Americans are reconsidering their country’s role in the world, and so are its leaders. Alex Ward, author of The Internationalists: The Fight to Restore American Foreign Policy After Trump, joins us.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Alex Ward (@alexbward). His book is The Internationalists: The Fight to Restore American Foreign Policy After Trump.
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Sean Illing talks with economic historian Brad DeLong about his new book Slouching Towards Utopia. In it, DeLong claims that the "long twentieth century" was the most consequential period in human history, during which the institutions of rapid technological growth and globalization were created, setting humanity on a path towards improving life, defeating scarcity, and enabling real freedom. But... this ran into some problems. Sean and Brad talk about the power of markets, how the New Deal led to something approaching real social democracy, and why the Great Recession of 2008 and its aftermath signified the end of this momentous era.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: J. Bradford DeLong (@delong), author; professor of economics, U.C. BerkeleyReferences: Slouching Towards Utopia: An Economic History of the Twentieth Century by J. Bradford DeLong (Basic; 2022)The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich von Hayek (1944)The Great Transformation by Karl Polanyi (1944)Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy by Joseph Schumpeter (1942)"A Short History of Enclosure in Britain" by Simon Fairlie (This Land Magazine; 2009)"China's Great Leap Forward" by Clayton D. Brown (Association for Asian Studies; 2012)What Is Property? by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1840)The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order by Gary Gerstle (Oxford University Press; 2022)Apple's "1984" ad (YouTube)The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money by John Maynard Keynes (1936)"The spectacular ongoing implosion of crypto's biggest star, explained" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Nov. 18)"Did Greenspan Add to Subprime Woes? Gramlich Says Ex-Colleague Blocked Crackdown" by Greg Ip (Wall Street Journal; June 9, 2007)"Families across the country are tightening their belts and making tough decisions. The federal government should do the same," from President Obama's 2010 State of the Union Address (Jan. 27, 2010)"The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte" by Karl Marx (1852)Why We're Polarized by Ezra Klein (Simon & Schuster; 2020)The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion by Zac Gershberg and Sean Illing (U. Chicago; 2022) Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Erikk GeannikisEditor: Amy DrozdowskaEngineer: Patrick BoydEditorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. HallLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Musician Laraaji joins Sean to talk about improvisation as meditation, the transcendent nature of laughter, and lessons from a long life in sound and spirit.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Laraaji. His music can be found at https://laraajimusic.bandcamp.com/
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This episode was made by:
Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
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